1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Emily, and and you're listening to stuff 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: mom never told you. And today I'm pretty excited to 3 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: tackle a topic that definitely has showed up in my life, 4 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: and I bet it has showed up in a lot 5 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: of y'all's lives as well. And that is the quest 6 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,599 Speaker 1: for social media perfection. Emily, this is something you can 7 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: really do. Absolutely. I think there is so much pressure 8 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: on all of us, but especially women, for some reason, 9 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: to live what I call a Pinterest perfect life, right, 10 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: this idea that everything has to look like your life 11 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: is beautiful. You have to showcase your perfect career, your 12 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: perfect little family, your perfect little life, your perfect little house, 13 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: your latte. And I fall into that trap all the time. 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: Instagram pres is pretty, your life looks amazing. Your life 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: is amazing, but it looks looks amazing. It definitely looks 16 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: more amazing than it actually is. But it's because it's 17 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: a highlight reel. That's exactly it. I think back to 18 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: when I was living in New York City having probably 19 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: the worst, most oppressing time of my life. All my 20 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: friends they said things like, we can't believe you were 21 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 1: so unhappy. Your life looked so exciting on Instagram because 22 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: you were always seeing celebrities and going at and blah 23 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: blah blah. And I said, yeah, I think I was 24 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: trying to curate a very happy and exciting life to 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: make up for the fact that my life actually wasn't 26 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: very happy or exciting. It was actually very depressing and sad. 27 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: And so the research is clear that this is something 28 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: that young people, particularly women, are really struggling with. Many 29 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: young people are struggling with mental health issues, depression, anxiety, 30 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: but really projecting this very perfect life. And one of 31 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: the things that makes that so interesting is that they 32 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: really feel to need to do that because they think 33 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: all their other friends are living perfect lives, and so 34 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: it becomes an echo chamber where everyone seems to be 35 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: living their best life, having the most delicious avocado toad, 36 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: drinking the coolest latte, having the most amazing yoga classes, 37 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: you know, having the most charming pets, But actually, no 38 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: one's life is amazing all the time. I know, it's 39 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: this weird economy because there's the alternative, which is open 40 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: moaning on social media. And I'm not saying that there 41 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: is some time in a place for venting, but there's 42 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: you know, what are you supposed to do. Are you 43 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: supposed to take out your phone and take a selfie 44 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: when you're having a depressive episode and a panic attack 45 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: or you're feeling fat and you're like, today is not 46 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: a day when I can wear those genes that I 47 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: wish I wanted, that I had planned to wear today. 48 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's just like this idea that, of course 49 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: we know we're all curating our lives. The warped problem 50 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: emerges when we forget that everyone else is curating their 51 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: life as well. Exactly that sob to sleep. For as 52 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: long as people have been communicating with each other, you know, 53 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: sending car of your pigeons, or smoke signals or letters 54 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: via Pony Express of any of that, people have been 55 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: curating the highlights of their of their life. That's totally 56 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: normal and completely understandable. But what's different about social media 57 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: is the extent to which we consume the curated lives 58 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: of others. So it's just like what you're saying, Yeah, 59 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: it's like everything that's wrong with media targeting girls, like 60 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: the proliferation of air brushing, for instance, that sets an 61 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: impossibly high standard for what your body is supposed to 62 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: look like, is now peer to peer, you know what 63 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: I mean, Like everything that is warped and makes you 64 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: feel awful about yourself when flipping through a fashion magazine 65 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: is now so pervasive because what has really been designed 66 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: to keep us all in touch with one another has 67 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: resulted in us comparing ourselves to one another. And that's 68 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: exactly when you fall into a lot of the pitfalls 69 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about today. Um So, I 70 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: just wanted to really highlight this one's suddy. A recent 71 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: survey conducted by the Girl Scouts found that nearly seventy 72 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: of girls agreed that other girls try to make themselves 73 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: look quote cooler than they are on social networking site. 74 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: That's the mean thing to say. I want to say, 75 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: even a question is a little the phrasing, the phrasing, 76 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: it's a little mean. It just sounds like a seventh 77 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: grade insult. Emily, you think you're so much cooler than 78 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: you are, and you're like, I know you're right, Emily, 79 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: seventy of other classmates asked so that you came off 80 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: as quote too cool for school? How do you how 81 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: do you respond to that? I'm gonna go to the 82 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: bathroom cry. That's what that was my seventh grade go 83 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: to move same um, and so what's really fascinating is 84 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: that they're really putting starting to put a name to 85 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: this condition. Gregory T. Eels, the director of the Gannett 86 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: Health Services at Cornell University. He calls it quote social perfection, 87 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: or the appearance of living a perfect light across various 88 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: social media platforms, which Eel says can be just as 89 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: damaging to the person seeing those kinds of images as 90 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: it is to people who see them. So really it's 91 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: about when you fall into this trap of feeling the 92 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 1: need to put out perfection and images that are perfect, 93 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: other people see them, and it becomes this vicious cycle 94 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: of everyone feeling like crap about themselves exactly. And I 95 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: love what he goes on to say about internalizing that 96 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: as reality, because that's where the problems really arise when 97 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: you think, like, for instance, if my self worth was 98 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: directly connected to my Instagram feed, I would feel the 99 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: need to keep up with that image in a really 100 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: compulsive way. So what he's saying is that it's just 101 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: as problematic for the poster who gains that kind of 102 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: very understandable satisfaction from peer to peer approval from their 103 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: online persona. He says, quote, it's not as if you 104 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: really think I have to be perfect. It's that I 105 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: think that you think that I have to be perfect, 106 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: and so I need to put that image out constantly. 107 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that a particular Kylie Jenner talks about 108 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: this quite often on the Life of Kylie is about 109 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: I may or may not have been consuming lately, because 110 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: she talks about the difference between her own reality and 111 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: her image. And as much as we like to pretend 112 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: like celebrities, lives aren't quite like our own. I think 113 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: in that regard they really are. Everyone has their own 114 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: sphere of influence, and so when you feel this dissociation 115 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: between the image you've created or what other people think 116 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: of you as, and that image is something that's intimately 117 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: connected to your own sense of identity and self, that's 118 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: where some problems can arise. I think that's true, and 119 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: I think, again, I've definitely been guilty of getting caught 120 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: up in that. But I think what Kylie is saying 121 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: I never thought i'd use this phrase, But what I 122 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: think Kylie is saying is so thoughtful because it really 123 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: reminds us that when we're on social media platforms like Instagram. 124 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: Not only are we competing with our friends or classmates, 125 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: we're competing with people who have teams that are dedicated 126 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: to making their life look perfect and awesome. Right Like 127 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: Kylie has an entire team of people. She's not just 128 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: casually posting things in her bedroom the way that some 129 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: of us are. And that again adds to that filter 130 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: bubble where it's not clear where reality begins and ends, 131 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: even within ourselves. And comparing herself to someone who has 132 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: a whole professional team behind their online presence is not fair. 133 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: It's not fair, and it's it's it's just a big trap. Um. 134 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: Something I love that Eels says is that when he 135 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: counsels with students, they often say when they're depressed or 136 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: having a hard time, Oh, I look at so and 137 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: so's life and she's so happy, or this person's life 138 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: seems so perfect. And he says, I can point at 139 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: those students and think that one's gone to the hospital, 140 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: that person has an eating disorder, that student just went 141 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: on antidepressants. As a therapist, I know that nobody is 142 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: as happy or grown up as they seem on the outside. Yeah, 143 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: And this seems to be especially pervasive on college campuses, 144 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: which doesn't surprise me, given the hyper connectedness of a 145 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:09,239 Speaker 1: society that's on a campus together and connected virtually. In fact, 146 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: in two thousand three, Duke produced a report describing how 147 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: female students felt pressure to be quote effortlessly perfect, being smart, accomplished, fit, beautiful, 148 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: and popular, all without visible effort. At Stanford, it's called 149 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: the duck syndrome because the duck appears to glide calmly 150 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: across the water well beneath the surface, it's frantically, relentlessly 151 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 1: paddles the things I want to unpack from that is effortless. 152 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: What the hell? When did that become part of the 153 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: thing we need to be. It's wild to me that 154 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: you are expected, if you are a young woman on 155 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: one of these campuses dealing with this kind of thing, 156 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: You're expected to be popular, beautiful, thin, social, all of that, 157 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: all without any artifice of trying too hard. Because I 158 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: woke up like this, of course, didn't we all exactly? 159 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: I have always failed on that front. In like my 160 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: personal life, like has always put me in the category 161 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: of nerd or overachiever, or brown noser or annoyer, an 162 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 1: intense person, and has always been clear from the very beginning, 163 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: is that effort is something that I put into everything 164 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: that I do to a to a terrible extent, you 165 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like I especially chafe at this 166 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: idea of effortless perfection because that is something I will 167 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: I have never been able to and will never be 168 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 1: able to achieve that image of not trying but just 169 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: being that cool, like Barack Obama has an effortless cool 170 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: to him, even though you know he puts in work, right, 171 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: But why is effortlessness something that we've elevated right now? 172 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: As I know you personally, I know that you're someone 173 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: who really cares about things. You want things to be good, 174 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: You want things to be the best they can be. 175 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: You really have high standards, not because you're a brown noser, 176 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: because you're a dorc. It's because you care about things 177 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: being good and you want things to be right, and 178 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: that takes effort. Things just don't fall into place. It 179 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: takes work and effort. And I don't know where we 180 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: got to this point where you have to be sexy, smart, effective, 181 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, but you also can't show any of 182 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: the machinations that go into that otherwise you're intense and adore, 183 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: and you're hated like Ann Hathaway. Yeah, yes, yes, really 184 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: super identify with that. There's a really great article about 185 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: why some people don't like it Hathaway, and it comes 186 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: It comes back to the idea that people sense that 187 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: she's trying, and even though she's great, she's a great actress, 188 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: singer's not so t wanted. She comes off as wanting 189 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: it too much, so we don't give it to the 190 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: opposite is Jennifer Lawrence. She's the cool girl that doesn't care. Man, 191 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: she just does whatever. She flies off the handle, she 192 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: doesn't care, you know, she's just hanging. And that is 193 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 1: the kind of thing I distinctly remember being envious of 194 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: those people until I came to accept that I care 195 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: about everything, probably a little too much it, and there's 196 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: no hiding it. And one of my biggest faults is 197 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 1: how much I care. And I'm okay with that. I've 198 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: accepted that because Jennifer Lawrence is an impossibly high standard 199 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: for not caring and still looking amazing. Um, she definitely cares. 200 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: She may like we may have decided that for whatever reason, 201 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: she doesn't care and it's not trying, but that's definitely 202 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: not true. Yeah. Isn't it interesting though how people perceive 203 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: those two women very differently, basicly on effortlessness or effort alone. Yeah, 204 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: I mean this almost takes me back to our episode 205 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: around Lisa Simpson about one of the things that she 206 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: gets that that show gets so right is that she cares. 207 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: She tries very hard, and that's okay. It's it should 208 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: be cool to try hard. Caring about stuff is cool, 209 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: And it's not that she always succeeds, and that effort 210 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: is no less important or valued when she's succeeding or failing, which, man, 211 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: I love Lisa. I know I could talk. We always 212 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: go back to the Simpsons' is one of those constants 213 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: on the show. It's true. So bringing it back to 214 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: social media sites like Instagram and Facebook, it actually turns 215 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: out that it's not what sites do you use, it's 216 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: how you use them. And we're gonna tease that out 217 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: after a quick word from our sponsors and we're back. 218 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: We were just talking about social media and how it 219 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: can really get into our heads. So it turns out 220 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: that with sites like Facebook, a lot of it has 221 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: to do with how you're using it. According to a 222 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: study from University of Missouri. Facebook has been linked to 223 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: symptoms of depression. If the social networking site is used 224 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: to compare your life with the life of your peers. 225 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: If you're using it to just stay connected or see 226 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: your friends, or see your friends new baby, things like that, 227 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: it's fine. But if you're using it actively to compare 228 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: your life to the life of other people, I would say, like, 229 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: particularly people your age, that's when you really have a problem. 230 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 1: And I just want to acknowledge that. A hundred percent 231 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: of people listening, we're like, that's me because we've all 232 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: been there. Have you ever rage liked something? You're like, 233 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: I hate you like I have You're like you in 234 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,599 Speaker 1: your perfect seeming life, you know, screw you. Here's a 235 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: little like button and it thumbs up to you in 236 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: your finished book manuscript or you're you know, so you're 237 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: traveling the world. You're in Alaska on some cruise, like, 238 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: I hate you, but I'm gonna hit a like button 239 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: because I don't want to hate you. I wish I 240 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: didn't hate you. This whole psychological uh management happens within 241 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: your own brain where you say you know something, fiery 242 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 1: flames up inside of you and you're like why why 243 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: am I reacting this triggered kind of way. I shouldn't 244 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: feel that way. And when you say I shouldn't have 245 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: those feelings, we suppress and we box it in and 246 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: we throw it to the forest farthest recesses of our 247 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,719 Speaker 1: consciousness and pretend like it didn't happen, when in reality 248 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: there's something different you can do. And you know I'm 249 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 1: not alone in this, and I am I bridgin No, 250 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: you're not alone. I was gonna say this doesn't make 251 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: me sound like a very good person, but I'm gonna 252 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: say it anyway. Me and my friends have a running 253 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: group where when someone posts something really just like look 254 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: at my amazing vacation, will screenshot the picture and be like, 255 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: for fifty dollars, would you write no one cares at 256 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: a comment and you've never actually done it, but the 257 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: antie has gotten very high. For a thousand dollars if 258 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: you comment no one cares on this? That is so aggressive. 259 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. It's not aggressive that 260 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: it's happening in a private group chaw. It would be 261 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: if someone actually took it up on them. But that's 262 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: there is a part of everyone that wants to do 263 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: that because and here's my theory behind it is something 264 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: about that picture reminded you of something that you wish 265 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: you had more of in your life. Totally, and that 266 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: actually goes right back to the research the University of 267 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: Missouri researchers down that Facebook postings about things like expensive vacations, 268 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: new houses or cars, happy relationships, evil feelings with envy 269 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: amongst surveillance social media users. And so when you see 270 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: that big house, it reminds you that you live of 271 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: an a walk up, crappy apartment in Washington, DZ has 272 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: bugs if you're me or no, it's actually lovely, but 273 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: it's no, it's not a house that I own. But 274 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: or when you see you know that beautiful you know 275 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: tropical vacation, you're reminded that you don't have vacation days, 276 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: or that you can't take a vacation, or that you 277 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: wish you could and you can't. Exactly. There's resentment that 278 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: bubbles up. And when we give ourselves permission to really 279 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: instead of like rage quit or rage clothes the browser, 280 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: instead of suppressing that emotion and telling yourself, I shouldn't 281 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: I should feel happy for them, I shouldn't hate this person, 282 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: processing it a little bit. Maybe it's through a private 283 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: group chat, but thinking to yourself, what about this person's 284 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: life do I want more of? In mind? And what 285 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: can I do to make it happen. It's such a 286 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: mindful way to think about it, where you don't spin 287 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: out in your own envy and rage, but you make 288 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: a plan for you, an actionable plan for your life. 289 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: And seeing someone's new baby fills you with instant dread 290 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: and envy. Maybe it's because you that's something you want 291 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: in your life. Of seeing someone's finished book, manuscript or 292 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: finished marathon fills you with a weird feeling in your 293 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: gut that makes you instantly feel weird. Maybe that's something 294 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: you need to make a plan for in your life. 295 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: That's what I hadn't thought about that. That's a good idea. 296 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: It's the way to reverse engineer envy to actually point 297 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: you in the direction of what you want. So instead 298 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: of saying I hate that I'm envious of that person, 299 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to run away from those negative emotions that 300 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: we shouldn't be feeling. Say, you know, without judgment, in 301 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: a mindful way, I'm feeling this feeling. Why what do 302 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: I need more of in my life? How can I 303 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: get more of that in my life? And maybe you 304 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: can't change the fact that you don't have vacation days, 305 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: but maybe you can start a savings fund for a 306 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: long weekend that's coming up. Maybe you can look into 307 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: booking staycation with your best day, you know what I mean? Like, 308 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: what can you proactively do? If you allow the envy 309 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: to trigger action on your part, you're gonna feel a 310 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: lot better. That's so interesting that you say that the 311 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: has I think working through instant negative gut feelings that 312 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: we have is so difficult, so difficult because we live 313 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: in a society that literally says you shouldn't feel that way, 314 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: So runaway. Feel ashamed that you felt envious. So now 315 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: you don't just feel sad that you don't have what 316 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: they have. You feel bad for feeling sad because we're 317 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: all supposed to be happy at the time, which is 318 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: the topic of another conversation. But we should talk about 319 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: like America's relationship with happiness in particular, because did you 320 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: know that we smile more than any other society of people. 321 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: I did not know that. For future discuss that. That 322 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: is a good tid. Here's something that will surprise no one, 323 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: though of all the social media sites, there is one 324 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: that researchers have found is most likely to trigger depression, 325 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: anxiety and loneliness, according to a UK wide study by 326 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: the Royal Society for Public Health. It's not surprising, is 327 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: it brigid that of all the platforms, it is the 328 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: one and only Instagram. It's the Graham surprising no one. Actually, 329 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: one thing I did find surprising about the study is 330 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: that the social networking platform that is most likely to 331 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: generate positive content creation and make people feel good is YouTube. 332 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: I found that very surprising. YouTube is a very tightnit 333 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: community of creators and they all reference each other often. 334 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,719 Speaker 1: There's a lot of music happening there. I like. I 335 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: like that. I'm not surprised by that. So as you 336 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: don't read the comments if you think the very in 337 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: different about being a creator on YouTube versus anyone who 338 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: comments on YouTube is like likely to be a sociopath, yes, 339 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: or at least a closeted sociopath who rages against people 340 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: on YouTube comment why have it comments so bad? So bad? 341 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: If they're so toxic, don't read them? Um yeah, Instagram, 342 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: it doesn't surprise me at all. I mean, Instagram is 343 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: so full of picture perfect lives and avocado toast and 344 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: all of this. I actually just saw a movie about 345 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: the dark side of Instagram called Ingland Goes West. Um. 346 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: If you haven't seen it, it's it's definitely worth checking out. 347 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: Based the Aubrey Plaza is a very disturbed young woman 348 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: who gets so caught up in Instagram and having this 349 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: perfect Instagram life that she goes to a very very 350 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: dark place because she can't. She cannot detach Instagram reality 351 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: from reality reality. And so if it happens on Instagram, 352 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: if it's real, if someone is living the best life 353 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: on Instagram, they have the best life, and she needs 354 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: to be having that, and if she doesn't, then she 355 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: can't measure up with Without giving any spoilers away, like, 356 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: was there an overarching lesson? Uh, The overarching lesson is 357 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: that Instagram is not always what it seems, and that 358 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: Instagram it isn't. Yeah, it's not, it's not real. That 359 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: getting caught up in it can be really toxic. It 360 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: also has a wrinkle of the idea of people who 361 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: make money from perfect instagrams, and so so often when 362 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: you see a beautiful post it's sponsored or you know, 363 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: spawn con or whatever. That that is its own kind 364 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: of weird thing that we don't really that our brains 365 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: don't really allow us to fully acknowledge. Yeah, that's interesting. 366 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: You have to be careful with your media diet, right, 367 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: You have to be careful about what you're feeding your 368 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: brain and your eyes in terms of images, and when 369 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: we consume what we believe is a loosely filtered reality, 370 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: we can forget that it's not that loosely filtered. It's 371 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: quite filtered. It's quite censored, improved, highlighted. It really isn't 372 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: real life. But we forget that because it seems like 373 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: such a democratic, small d democratic medium, right right, it 374 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: seems so accessible, so that everybody must be having the 375 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 1: same kind of experience with the Graham that you are, 376 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: whatever that might mean. Yeah, I mean I've definitely tried 377 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: to be a little bit better about how I consume 378 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,479 Speaker 1: Instagram because I'm super prone to insta jealousy and thinking 379 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: that people's curated lives or their real lives and sort 380 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: of not taking a step back and saying this is 381 00:20:55,480 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: super filtered, super curated obviously, because it's it's I think 382 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: he said this earlier. It is like looking through a 383 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: magazine but the magazine is your friends, and that makes 384 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: it so much worse, and it's so much easier to 385 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: compare your shortcomings with the shortcomings of your friends when 386 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 1: they look so perfect. Can I ask you about that? Yeah? So, 387 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: which images, if you could categorize them, do you feel 388 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: are the most likely to trigger that kind of envy 389 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: when you're pressing if you're willing. Um one is vacation photos. 390 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: And knew you were going to say that I am 391 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: not someone who takes a ton of vacation. Um. I 392 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: actually don't know when my last vacation was. I mean, 393 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: I can't remember it, So there we go. Um. I 394 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: took a really kind of life changing trip to Australia, 395 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: I think that I think you've mentioned on the show, 396 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: which to me felt like a vacation. But even that 397 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: was a working trip that was not a vacation. But 398 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: in my mind it's like I've never been like on 399 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: an Australian beach before, Like this is amazing, And you know, 400 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 1: I see my I have friends that really prioritize that 401 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: aspect of like their lives, making time for travel and 402 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,719 Speaker 1: making time off and it's something that I've struggled with forever. 403 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: And seeing people who live I mean that I wouldn't 404 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: say they're busier than me or less busy than me. 405 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: We were, we probably are comparable in what our lives 406 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: look like in terms of work and responsibilities. And I 407 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: just can't help but look at them and I'm like, 408 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: how did you manage this? Like? How did you do 409 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: do a weekend trip to Cuba? Like what is like? 410 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 1: It's one of those things I've never been able to 411 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: make fit into my life. And when I see other 412 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: people seemingly make it fit so easily and so well, 413 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: I instantly feel like a pang in my stomach. I 414 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: had a sneaking suspicion you're going to say that, so 415 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: sminty listeners, we are going to have a campaign to 416 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: get bridget on vacation. I think Operation Vacation bridget Todd 417 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,239 Speaker 1: Edition is officially engaged. Well, I have to say, when 418 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: I was in Australia, my hosts when I said, oh, 419 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: I haven't had a vacation for years, my hosts were baffled. 420 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: My one friend was like, we just came from BALI like, 421 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: what do you mean? They could not wrap their heads 422 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: around it. And I think it's a uniquely American thing 423 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: of not feeling like it's okay to take time off, 424 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: not feeling like it's okay to like go to the 425 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: beach if that's what you want to do. Yeah, I 426 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: think that's a uniquely American thing, because certainly my Australian 427 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: hosts were like, no, we take vacations literally all the time. 428 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: I know, we could talk, we could do a whole 429 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 1: episode on that. I wrote a lot about that this 430 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: summer on my Forbes column, actually because it is tied 431 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: to our American connection between self worth and productivity. But yeah, 432 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: I think vacation selfies are probably one of the most 433 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: envy generating content pieces or categories on social media red large. 434 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: So you are far from alone on the front. Do 435 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: you have an envy? Mine's always it really. I have 436 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: a nagging project I haven't finished yet, which is a book. 437 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: So mine are always about professional envy, like awesome friends 438 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: who are writing their books, or friends who met a 439 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: v I P that I've been trying to meet for 440 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: a long time. You know the drill. It's it's like 441 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: typical creative entrepreneur and jealousy. Yeah, I mean something that 442 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: has been helpful for me in that regard with that 443 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: kind of content that I see on social media a 444 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: lot is reminding myself, Wow, I am in a community 445 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: of kick ass women. We do kick ass things exactly. 446 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: That has been I think initially I would see someone 447 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: do something cool and be like, oh, I want to 448 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: do that, right, I'm better than her, like why is 449 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: she getting this opportunity and not me like blah blah blah, 450 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: but reminding myself, Oh, how cool that these kinds of 451 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: people are in my network. People who win is not 452 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: my loss exactly exactly, And for me flipping it back 453 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: and saying her win is kind of a win for me. 454 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: I'm the kind of girl who knows, the kind of 455 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: girl who knows what yes, exactly but exactly That is 456 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: not what's happening on a lot of college campuses in particular, 457 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: and especially a lot of younger folks, because that skill 458 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: of being able to flip a narrative in your own 459 00:24:53,920 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: head takes time, it takes practice, and really, unfortunately, not 460 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: having developed those skills or not giving our young like 461 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: students the ability to learn those skills in a safe 462 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: way when they're coming up on social media as the 463 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: basis of theirs, I would say an integrated part of 464 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: their reality can have really life or death consequences. Totally. 465 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: That brings me to a story that is so so 466 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: tragic and one that I sadly identified with a little bit, 467 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,479 Speaker 1: and I'm sure a lot of people can identify. And 468 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: that is the story of Madison hollerand Um. If you 469 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,959 Speaker 1: don't know who she is, she was a college student, 470 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: um nineteen years old. She was a freshman at Penn 471 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: and Philadelphia, and she tragically killed herself. And when she 472 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: did so, many of her friends and family were shocked, 473 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: mostly because she seemed to be projecting living this picture 474 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: perfect life. ESPN did an amazing long read about her, 475 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: her tragic death and her life and the way that 476 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: social media had a big role, particularly Instagram. One of 477 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: the saddest things about her story is that an hour 478 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: before she took her own life, she posted a seemingly 479 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: charming Instagram photo from Rittenhouse Square near her campus, before 480 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: jumping off a parking garage, and she clearly filled with 481 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: the picture. And you know, it's a picture that seems 482 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: to be like twinkling Christmas lights, and you would see 483 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: this and think this is a girl who is living 484 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: a happy life and is really happy about where she is, 485 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: and it turned out that she wasn't, and no one 486 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: really knew. And what's worse, no one really knew that 487 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: they were all kind of feeling the same way when 488 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: she took her life. So many of her classmates and 489 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: friends also reported I felt the same way. I was lonely, 490 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: I was depressed, I was anxious, I wasn't sure about school. 491 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: I was feeling all these new feelings. But everyone else 492 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: seems so happy, So I felt like I had to 493 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: be happy too, and like there was something wrong with me. 494 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: It wasn't distress, it wasn't the life, it wasn't the 495 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: major life changes that we were all dealing with. There 496 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: was something flawed about me personally. It's so tragic. So 497 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: a really telling line from this ESPN article about her life. 498 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: They write, the life Madison projected on her own Instagram 499 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: feed was filled with shots that seemed to confirm everyone's expectations. 500 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: Of course, she was loving her first year of college. 501 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 1: Of course she enjoyed running. Her mom remembers looking at 502 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: a photo on her feet and saying, Madison, you look 503 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: like you're so happy at this party. Mom. Madison said, 504 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: it's just a picture. Oh good, that's just so scary 505 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: to think about as a parent, or think about a 506 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: friend of yours who's going through something like that. That 507 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: just like, it's very hard to ask for help when 508 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: you are struggling with feelings of depression or God forbids suicide. 509 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: It's extremely unlikely that you're gonna ask for help in 510 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: the form of posting something on social media saying I'm struggling. 511 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: Here's me in a depressive episode, like I'm having a bad, 512 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: bad go of it. I need help, you know, Like, 513 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: it's hard to ask for that kind of support, and 514 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: knowing that they are friends of yours that might be 515 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: projecting this otherwise very sunny disposition who are in need 516 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: of that kind of help, just it's terrifying. It is terrifying, 517 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: and I think, you know, one of the things I 518 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: think that article really showed is that young women feel 519 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: this intense pressure to just be perfect all the time, 520 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: and even if something is going wrong, even if they 521 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: need help, that's not cool, that's not sexy, that's not effortless, 522 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: and so they have to amask that and tell no one. 523 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: I mean, it really is troubling, and it reminds me 524 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: of a similar social experiment that was taken up last 525 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: year in called Like My Addiction, and this campaign was 526 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: created with help from production company Francine from Bois for 527 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: Addict Aid, which sought to raise awareness for alcoholism amongst 528 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: young people in it and overnight Instagram success, A girl 529 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: known as Louise Delage is apparently a twenty five year 530 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: old social media starlet who wrapped up over fifty thousand 531 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: likes in a couple of months, really just posting a 532 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: ton of photos, uh, showing her at boat parties, traveling, 533 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: having endless dinners, and it seems like a pretty common 534 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: place Instagram feed of a happy, go lucky party girl. 535 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: But what you realize, or what some people caught onto 536 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: the fact of is in almost every photo she's always 537 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: holding a drink. And so really the campaign sought to 538 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: expose the fact that Louise, even though she was a 539 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: made up character, she has all the markings of a 540 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: textbook addict, an alcoholic. I mean, these are posts from 541 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: a daily basis of her drinking large amounts of alcohol, 542 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: sometimes posting two to three posts per day. So it's just, 543 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting to see that a lot of 544 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: people didn't recognize the signs of alcoholism, just like we 545 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't recognize the signs of depression on an Instagram feed 546 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: that otherwise looked quite positive and happy. Yeah. I mean, 547 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: what's so fascinating about that is if if she was 548 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: real and she's said, hey, I have a drink every day, 549 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: sometimes multiple drinks in a day. I drink three times 550 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: a day every day and I have for years, you'd 551 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: you'd say, oh, you might have a problem. If it 552 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: looks glossy and pretty and it's near sunset or on 553 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: a boat or on a beach, then we like it exactly. 554 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: And I think that that connects so well back to 555 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,959 Speaker 1: Madison the hollerand story around depression and other kinds of 556 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: mental issues and how they can play out on social media. 557 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: From this ESPN story, they write, checking Instagram is like 558 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: opening a magazine to see a fashion advertisement, except and 559 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: add as branded as what it is, a staged image 560 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: on glossy paper, Instagram has passed off as a real life. Yes, 561 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: people filter their photos to make them prettier. People are 562 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: also often encouraged to put filters on their sadness to 563 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: brighten their reality so as not to quote drag down 564 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: those around them. The myths will exist that happiness is 565 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: a choice, which perpetuates the notion of depression as weakness. 566 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: Life must be instagrammed in more ways than one. It's 567 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: so sad. It's so sad, And I think it's so 568 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: true that even if you are having a hard time, 569 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: if you can make it look good or you know, 570 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, yeah, appealing to others, then 571 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: it's not your problem exactly. I definitely when I was 572 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: kind of at my at my darkest in New York, 573 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: I definitely remember posting things that were meant to be 574 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: sort of cheeky or funny, and really I remember what 575 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: I was actually trying to say. It was like, I'm miserable. 576 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: Someone please ask me about it because I'm having a 577 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: hard time. But I don't. It's not cool to come 578 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: out and say that, and so what I did instead 579 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: is kind of mask it as a joke under a 580 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: funny picture or a funny caption. Um when I because 581 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: it's so difficult to say, particularly on social media, that 582 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: things are not great. And I think one of the 583 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: things where Madison's story that I think is so fascinating 584 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: is how her friends really took what happened to her 585 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: as a wake up call to be more honest about 586 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: how they show up on social media. And so, in 587 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: a partnership with ESPN, a lot of her friends went 588 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: back to their old Instagram pictures and recaption them with 589 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: the truth. And so it'll be a glowing, happy image 590 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: of a girl, and the person who's who posted the 591 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: picture will give a new caption that says, I look 592 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: really happy in this picture, but actually I had spent 593 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,959 Speaker 1: all night crying. Um that party I was at, you know, 594 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: such and such happened and I was really upset about it. 595 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: But I didn't want people to think I had gone 596 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: to a party and not had a good time. So 597 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: I staged a picture where I was looked really happy 598 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: and really giving young people the tools to talk about 599 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: their issues on social media in ways that don't make 600 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: them feel like they have to be trapped by perfection. 601 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk a little bit more about some of 602 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: the ways that folks can use social media in more 603 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: healthy ways after this pick break and We'rebecca and we 604 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: were just getting into some dark stuff about social media 605 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: that I'm sure we've all felt. Um. One of the 606 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: things I found really inspiring about madisone Holler and story 607 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: is how her friends and family have really sort have 608 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: taken what happened to her as a challenge to help 609 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: others um but a partnership with ESPN and her family 610 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: started to talk for Maddie Foundation, and basically this helps 611 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: young people get the tools they need to be more 612 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: honest online and to be more open about different issues 613 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: are struggling with. What I love about this campaign is 614 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: that they highlight that one of the best and most 615 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: easy and most obvious ways to show up better on 616 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: social media is really simple and really easy, and that 617 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: is to talk speak openly about experiences in school, either 618 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: as student athletes or just students, to make clear to 619 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: anyone going through something similar that they are not alone, 620 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: that there is clearing on the other side of the storm. 621 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: I think that is so critically important because if we're 622 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: so busy trying to reinforce a false reality of what 623 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: our social media life looks like by pretending in our 624 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: real life to uphold at that's exhausting, you know it, really, 625 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: it truly is a lot of work to keep up 626 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: with that kind of an image. I just love that 627 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: they're encouraging folks to use the hashtag talk for Maddie 628 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: in Madison's honor, to have the courageous conversations in real 629 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: life with your friends, with your loved ones, with your classmates, 630 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: even when you are struggling, or when folks are having 631 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: a tough time of any kind, that we don't need 632 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: to pretend that everything is perfect all the time, because 633 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: nothing is perfect all the time. Even though we use 634 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: hashtag perfect or hashtag but lest god, you know sometimes 635 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 1: where sometimes things are. You should seriously comment on my 636 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: stuff saying nobody cares if I ever use the hashtag 637 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: blass's hopefully catiously ironically, probably ironically, but yeah, I see 638 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: it used a lot, and I get the inclination to 639 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: want to make things perfect, but nothing's perfect all the time, 640 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: and really there's no such thing as perfect. I've even 641 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: seen one of my friends who's a therapist, really bravely 642 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: post when things are not going so well. She'll post 643 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: something like saying, here's my dirty, dirty kitchen. And I 644 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: have two small kids but below the age of five, 645 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 1: I have a career, and I am running this household 646 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: on this particular day, you know, and this is what 647 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: that looks like. And I'm not going to pretend like 648 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 1: things are perfect here all the time, she goes on 649 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: and says, I'm having a rough day, here's why. And 650 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: I think being willing to be brave in that way 651 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: is really compelling because even now, but especially when I 652 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: was in my darkest moments, when I was completely burned 653 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 1: out and navigating some big life transitions and trying to 654 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: escape a really toxic relationship, I thought, if I don't 655 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: have something good to say, I should say nothing at all. 656 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: And so it was sort of like social media silence 657 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,879 Speaker 1: there for a little while. Yeah. I guess, yeah, come 658 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: to think of it, that that might still be my policy. 659 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: That's probably why might feel looks good. It's like what 660 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: I'm having a bad day, I usually don't post. Yeah. 661 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: But I think going back to the example that you 662 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: just gave it that your their your therapies friend, I 663 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: think when people see that, they connect. So I think 664 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: with you're totally When you're a frazzled parent and your 665 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,959 Speaker 1: day looks like, you know, missing the big soccer game 666 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: and screwing up dinner and being late for work and 667 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 1: having your shirt on inside out all day or whatever 668 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 1: whatever it looks like, when you're honest about that, it 669 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: gives other parents the currency that, yeah, my days look similar. 670 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: The people who try to present this perfect I'm killing 671 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: it all the time. Those are people who make us, 672 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: who can make us feel alienated exactly. Think when people 673 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: are honest about what they're going through other people, it 674 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: really resonates. I think one of my favorite examples of 675 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: that was when a friend accidentally wore two different shoes 676 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: for most of her day. She loved the house, but 677 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: she even she is on and she did she posted 678 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: a photo of it saying this is what this is 679 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: what's happening here on this Tuesday. And I was just like, yes, girl, 680 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: like thank you for sharing that, because not only is 681 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: it honest and real and indicative of just how crazy 682 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: and imperfect our lives can be sometimes, but it was funny. Yeah. 683 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: I mean I think about a time that I did 684 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: that where I almost was like, oh, this might be 685 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: t m I but I had been back and forth 686 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 1: and back and forth in airports, and I didn't have 687 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: time to do a lot of personal cleaning things, and 688 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: I had to freeze my leggings that for freeze the 689 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: cratch of my jeggings. And people will often say, oh, 690 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 1: your life looks so Jet said, and so hip and 691 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,760 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and sometimes that looks like for freezing 692 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,359 Speaker 1: your jeggings, right, Like, it doesn't always look as cool 693 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: as it might look. Sometimes I'm taking notes Sarah Bridget, 694 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 1: I love it for breeze those for breeze, those jagging Wait, 695 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's a good jip noted. Yeah, for sure. 696 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit more about what you, yes, 697 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: you listener can do to make sure we don't get 698 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 1: caught up in social media. So one tip is not 699 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: just to get caught up in sharing. When you have 700 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: the perfect trip or the perfect avocado toast or the 701 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 1: perfect sunset, don't be afraid to also share the mundane things. 702 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: What does your life really look like? Right? And be 703 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: honest with yourself and with others, and be kind to 704 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: yourself when you're sharing that. The other that I found 705 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: really compelling is that to remember that the study from 706 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: the University of Missouri suggests that using Facebook to compare 707 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 1: your life to others is where depression really gets its start. 708 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: The other thing to keep in mind is that this 709 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 1: research from the University of Missouri really focuses on the 710 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: comparison trap as the root of depression. So if you 711 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: find yourself using social media Instagram or otherwise to look 712 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: at other people's lives and compare it to yours and 713 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: you find yourself stumbling into that envy cycle, acknowledge what's 714 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: happening first, become aware of when you're feeling triggered in 715 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: that way, and give yourself permission to get out of 716 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: that comparison trap. Remind yourself that their winds are not 717 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: your losses, that if you're feeling envy, lean into that 718 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: discomfort enough to get clear on what exactly about their 719 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: life is something you want more of in your life, 720 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,720 Speaker 1: and make a plan to get more of it, whatever 721 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: that might be. Find a way to take proactive action 722 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: to getting after what it is that you really want. 723 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,839 Speaker 1: I love that advice so much and it's been really 724 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: useful for me in my life. I also think remembering 725 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: that if you're envious of somebody, it's possible they're envious 726 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: of you too. Um. I looked at my friends who 727 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: have seemingly perfect home lives in our hometown. They own houses, 728 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: they are married, they have kids, they have dogs, they 729 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 1: have land. You know, they have what seems to be 730 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: this perfect domestic life and I'll say that I'm a 731 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: little jealous. I want that those same people could be 732 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: looking at my life and saying the same thing, like, oh, 733 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: she her life looks exciting, her life looks you know, 734 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: she's got a lot going on. And it's interesting to 735 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: me that we the grasses would have always green our 736 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: exactly we think about our situation. We assume, oh, it's 737 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: everyone else is having a better time than me. But 738 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: people could be doing the same thing about you. Absolutely, 739 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: And that's why it's so important to have the talks 740 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 1: in real life, right to talk for Maddie to this 741 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: idea of continuing those conversations not only when you're killing it, 742 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: but also especially when you don't feel like life is 743 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 1: giving you a fair shake, Like have those conversations in 744 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: real life. Pick up the phone and use it for 745 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: its original intended purpose. Right now, it's terrifying. I can 746 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 1: imagine I haven't spoken to anyone on the phone, and 747 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: the closest I come is FaceTime. But FaceTime or otherwise 748 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: with someone who you can actually confide in. And beyond 749 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: what we can all do is individual social media users. 750 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: There's actually things that social media companies can actually do. 751 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: Um The authors of that University Missoury study that we 752 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,479 Speaker 1: referenced earlier in the show. They say that social media 753 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: companies can actually be embedding tools into their platforms that 754 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,359 Speaker 1: encourage healthier use of social medi you. These include things 755 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,399 Speaker 1: like a pop up warning to let people know when 756 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: they've been on the app ford extended period of time, 757 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 1: or disclosures indicating what a photo has been digitally enhanced 758 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 1: or filtered. I like that idea. I mean, here's a thing. 759 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: These sounds so unlikely to me because every app has 760 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: been designed to be as addictive as possible so that 761 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,400 Speaker 1: you stay on the site, so that you continue to 762 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: be served ads, so that they continue to make money. 763 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, we need to 764 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: remember that social media sites are for profit enterprises. They 765 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: are selling you. You are the product, You are the 766 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 1: eyeballs that they're selling to their advertisers, and it's just 767 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 1: important to remember that. When we're binging on Instagram, it's 768 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: just important to remember that you're being used as much 769 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 1: as you are using the software. Yeah, one of the 770 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: authors of the study really put it well. We said, 771 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: it's important that we have checks and balances in place 772 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: to make social media less of a wild West when 773 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: it comes to young people's mental health and well being, 774 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: and it seems like right now we're not doing that, 775 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: and we could be absolutely and that's why it's so 776 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 1: important that we keep talking to one another. It is 777 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: so hard and so brave to ask for help when 778 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: you need it. That especially for those who are listening today, 779 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: for whom Maddie's story resonates, I think it's important for 780 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,399 Speaker 1: us to just put the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline out 781 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: there for a second, because if you are feeling like 782 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: you're struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts, allow this to 783 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: be the moment when you take your life back, when 784 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: you take that next courageous step of asking for help. 785 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,879 Speaker 1: And that number is one eight hundred two seven three 786 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,239 Speaker 1: eight two five F. That's one hundred two seven three 787 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: eight to five. And that number might sound familiar to 788 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: some of you, because if you caught this August MTV 789 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,240 Speaker 1: Video Music Awards, you would know that deaf jam artists 790 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 1: Logic performed his new single of the same name to 791 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,240 Speaker 1: seven three eight to five five, during which time calls 792 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: to the National Suicide Preventional Line spiked. And as we 793 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: signed off today, you're gonna hear a little bit more 794 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: from our good friend logic, and we really want to 795 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: hear from you to talk to us. What about this 796 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,160 Speaker 1: episode resonated with you? What is your social media trigger 797 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: when you see avocado toast on Instagram? Do you instantly 798 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,799 Speaker 1: get a twins in your tummy? I want to hear 799 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,640 Speaker 1: all of it. Let us know. You can get in 800 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,719 Speaker 1: touch with us on Instagram. I know. We just spent 801 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 1: the whole day talking about it at stuff Mom Never 802 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: Told You, on Twitter, at mom Stuff podcast, and as 803 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,240 Speaker 1: always on email at mom Stuff at how stuff works 804 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: dot com. I'm I'm gonna time. I feel like a 805 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: lot of my mind, it feel like my life, same mind. 806 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,279 Speaker 1: I want you to be alive. I want you to be. 807 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:53,800 Speaker 1: You don't got a dot a day. I want you 808 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: to be. I want you to be