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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema rewind. This is Rob Lamb. Hey,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of Lord of the Rings in the

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Speaker 1: air once more. We've got that new season of The

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Speaker 1: Rings of Power out now. And for my own part,

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Speaker 1: I just finished rewatching nineteen seventy eight The Lord of

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Speaker 1: the Rings with my son, and we also rewatched the

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Speaker 1: old animated Hobbit and the old animated Return of the King.

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Speaker 1: Those are from the years nineteen seventy seven and nineteen eighty.

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Speaker 1: But hey, this one is a lot of fun. This

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Speaker 1: is an episode Joe and I did a while back,

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Speaker 1: because we're talking about the Keepers. This is a Russian adaptation,

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Speaker 1: a Russian TV adaptation of The Fellowship of the Ring

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Speaker 1: from nineteen ninety one. You can find places to stream this.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure offhand of it's had a more official release,

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Speaker 1: but it is out there. You can breathe it in.

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Speaker 1: It is. It is fascinating because, as we'll get into,

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Speaker 1: like the pacing is rather interesting. A lot of time

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Speaker 1: is devoted to things like Tom Bombadil, which is great,

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Speaker 1: big Tom Bombadill fans here, but at the expense of

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Speaker 1: what else, I don't know. It's got some nice synth

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Speaker 1: music in places, and the ring Raiths look really cool.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's dive right into the keepers.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to stuff to blow your mind, A production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob.

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Speaker 3: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And today we're doing Lord

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Speaker 3: of the Rings. We're entering the Tolken verse for Weird

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Speaker 3: House Cinema. Now, I assume you are immediately thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 3: the Peter Jackson epic series, you know, the New Zealand Journey.

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Speaker 3: Of course, that's not what we're doing, because you know,

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Speaker 3: we're not going to go with that mainstream that we

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Speaker 3: did recently do Deep Blue cy But no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: we're not doing that. You know what we're doing, of course,

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Speaker 3: it is the nineteen seventy eight Ralph Bakshi animated version

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Speaker 3: of the Lord of the Rings.

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Speaker 1: And feeling a little more obscure, right it makes sense.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm just kidding. No, we're not doing that. Of course,

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Speaker 3: what we're actually doing is the nineteen eighty Return of

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Speaker 3: the King.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, where there's a whip, there's a way of course.

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Speaker 3: No, actually I'm kidding. We're not doing that. The adaptation

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Speaker 3: of Lord of the Rings we're doing today is the

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety one Soviet made for TV production Kronatelli, which

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Speaker 3: translates directly as Keepers, which was made for the Leningrad

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Speaker 3: TV station in nineteen ninety one as the Soviet Union

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Speaker 3: was collapsing. And wow, this is one of the most

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Speaker 3: amazing films I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: It is so much fun. This what it recently emerged? Right,

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Speaker 1: It seems like you've've certainly been making the rounds recently.

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Speaker 3: It was thought lost for like thirty years until I

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Speaker 3: think it was just earlier this year, maybe around April

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Speaker 3: of twenty one, that the TV station that Leningrad TV

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Speaker 3: turned into I think it's called Channel five or five

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Speaker 3: TV now. I believe they were responsible for locating the

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Speaker 3: originals and publishing it to the internet. I think they

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Speaker 3: just put it up on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I read that one of their employees

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Speaker 1: wandered down into the basement and won the lost footage

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Speaker 1: in a game of riddles for a subterranean creature, right.

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Speaker 3: Uh huh. And so and also some beautiful Soul was

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Speaker 3: kind enough to create some English subtitles, which is what

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Speaker 3: we're going to have to be working off of here.

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Speaker 3: The original was of course in Russian, and the best

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Speaker 3: we can do is whatever these user generated subtitles are.

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Speaker 3: But I don't know. I got a good feeling from them.

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Speaker 3: I trust them. I feel like they're mostly accurate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we know the source material and this

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Speaker 1: film will discuss the changes, but it's mostly accurate to

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Speaker 1: the source material. It's honorable to the source material, with

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Speaker 1: some caveats, and you get some weird characters thrown in,

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Speaker 1: like I had a lot of crucifixes thrown into my

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Speaker 1: my subtitles, but it was still there were decent subtitles.

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Speaker 1: So if I'll go ahead and put this out there

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Speaker 1: that if you want to find these YouTube links that

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Speaker 1: we're discussing here, I'll include them on the blog post

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Speaker 1: for this episode at samooda music dot com. That's se

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Speaker 1: m U t A m U s C dot com.

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Speaker 1: That's just a blog I have, but it's the only

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Speaker 1: place I can put stuff up like this right now,

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Speaker 1: So go there if you want to see it, or

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Speaker 1: just go look it up on YouTube. Doesn't matter to

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Speaker 1: me as long as you see it and hear it

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Speaker 1: and feel it.

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Speaker 3: Now, if you are hoping to encounter shelob or see

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Speaker 3: the battle for Minas Tirith, or see the Hobbits go

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Speaker 3: into Mordoor or anything like that. Unfortunately, that is not

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Speaker 3: going to happen in this part of the story because

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Speaker 3: if you're familiar with the arc of Lord of the Rings,

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Speaker 3: you know it was originally published as one gigantic novel,

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Speaker 3: but broken into three volumes. You had Fellowship of the

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Speaker 3: Ring and then The Two Towers and then Return of

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Speaker 3: the King. This movie adaptation is just the first third,

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Speaker 3: is just the Fellowship of the Ring.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I have to say, they really, they really

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Speaker 1: let it breathe. You know, they spend they spend two

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Speaker 1: solid hours. They cut out some stuff that you might

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Speaker 1: not expect them to cut out.

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Speaker 3: Very strange choices about pacing and how to allocate the

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Speaker 3: plot into the two hours they had, Right.

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Speaker 1: But then they also they show a lot of love

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Speaker 1: for sections of the book that are traditionally cut out

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Speaker 1: of all adaptations, or at least all that I'm familiar with.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so one of the most notable things about Kronatelly

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Speaker 3: is that it includes Tom Bombadil and the Barrow Downs,

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Speaker 3: which is so exciting to me.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Yes. I was excited for this as well because

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Speaker 1: I have recently my son and I have recently started

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Speaker 1: listening to the audio book of the Fellowship of the

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Speaker 1: Rings and we just finished this section with the Barrow

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Speaker 1: Whites and Tom Bombadill, and so he's had a lot

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Speaker 1: of thoughts about it, and like I was telling him

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Speaker 1: about about all this, and I was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: most most film adaptations cut Tom Bombadil out. And he's like, no,

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Speaker 1: Tom Bombadil is an important character. I mean, not that

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Speaker 1: he would know, yes, right, made it that far into

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Speaker 1: the book. At this point, he seems very important because

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Speaker 1: he's essentially like a nature god who showed up and

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Speaker 1: saved everybody twice.

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Speaker 3: I think Tom Bombadil will come off as especially essential

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Speaker 3: and uncutable to people who have listened to the audiobook

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Speaker 3: narrated by Rob Nglis, who does the you know, his

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Speaker 3: own wonderful renditions of the songs that Tolkien only wrote

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Speaker 3: the lyrics to. You know, there isn't music in the books,

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Speaker 3: so but Rob Engliss's interpretation of the melodies for the

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Speaker 3: Tom Bombadil songs is actually quite haunting and interesting. Yeah, Hey,

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Speaker 3: dol Mary dol ring a Dingadillo.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like the lyrics are fun.

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Speaker 3: Like.

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Speaker 1: One of the things about reading Tolkien is, of course

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Speaker 1: you get a lot of songs, and if you're reading

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Speaker 1: them to yourself, you don't. I find myself kind of

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Speaker 1: reading quickly through the especially the multi page song lyrics.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then if I'm reading them aloud, say to my son,

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Speaker 1: as we did with the Hobbit, I'm not I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: fairly musically inclined, but not enough to wear. I can

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Speaker 1: just randomly sing these lyrics to a tune. So the

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Speaker 1: audiobook is is a real treasure when it comes to

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Speaker 1: these songs, because he does a Yeah, he does a

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Speaker 1: great job bringing them to life, and and they even

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Speaker 1: you can kind of get earwormed by Tom bombadill find

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Speaker 1: yourself humming this song through the rest of your day.

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Speaker 3: I listened to part of these audio books on an airplane,

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Speaker 3: and the next day I was wandering around London in

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Speaker 3: a in a fog of jet lag, just singing no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: He's a merry felloo. Yeah, but it was bright as

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Speaker 3: jacket is and his boots are yeah hello, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: A lot of lyrics about just how merry he is

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Speaker 1: and what he is wearing and then.

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Speaker 3: The rhythm daughter about goldberry, goldberry, Ye, fatty lumpkin, all

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Speaker 3: about the ponies. Yeah, I love a song about a pony.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's really good stuff. And yeah, and when

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Speaker 1: you're reading Lord of the Rings, it is a weird

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Speaker 1: and counter because he's just this merry, godlike and mysterious character.

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Speaker 1: Like there's still scholarly articles that are that are trying

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Speaker 1: to tear apart exactly what Tom is and what he

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Speaker 1: you know, what he descends from in you know, the

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Speaker 1: actual annals of mythology. And then the barrel Whites are

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Speaker 1: just super creepy as well. They are these when you

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Speaker 1: get into the Morn of the lore, there are these

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Speaker 1: tortured spirits that have fled the witch kingdom of Angmar

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Speaker 1: and hid in the ancient bodies of human warriors that

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Speaker 1: were buried during the first Age of the Sun. And

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Speaker 1: so they're just like will crushing darkness. And we have

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Speaker 1: that wonderful creepy scene where the Hobbits wake up in

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Speaker 1: the barrow mounds and they're there, they've been laid out

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Speaker 1: and covered in the gold of the dead. Its fabulous stuff.

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Speaker 3: But if I were doing an adaptation where I was

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Speaker 3: trying to render a barrow white, I would not have

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Speaker 3: thought to dress him as a creepy clown. Yes, And

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Speaker 3: so the barrel white, I think in this movie I

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Speaker 3: could be missed, but I believe is played by a woman,

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Speaker 3: but is voiced by like a like a raspy, deep

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Speaker 3: voiced man, and the person playing the barrow white is

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Speaker 3: dressed in full like mime makeup or like I don't

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Speaker 3: know what you call that classic clown makeup that goes like,

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Speaker 3: you know, the old style.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It is not something I would have

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Speaker 1: chosen for the barrow white scenes.

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Speaker 3: They're very creepy.

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Speaker 1: It's creepy, but in a way that is perhaps a

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Speaker 1: little off brand. I don't know, But I don't know.

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Speaker 1: There's just one detail in the film. There's other stuff

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Speaker 1: that works a lot better, and I guess, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe given the budget here, this was a good choice.

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Speaker 1: Hard to say, I guess one of the problems. And

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Speaker 1: I'd be interested to hear if you say about this.

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Speaker 1: Like one thing that I've read about the exclusion of

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Speaker 1: the barrow white scene from other adaptations is that not

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Speaker 1: only is there pacing issue, not only is this a

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Speaker 1: whole encounter that can be easily removed. But potentially if

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Speaker 1: you put the Barrel Whites on screen, they might be

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Speaker 1: confused with the Black Riders, oh yeah, the nine Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and or even if you're not confused with them, they

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Speaker 1: might take some of the heat away from them. And

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Speaker 1: so if you take them out, the Ring Raths remain

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Speaker 1: the primary supernatural antagonist in this phase of the book.

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Speaker 3: I can see that. I mean, the other main criticism

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Speaker 3: that I've encountered, and I know we've talked about this before.

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Speaker 3: I think what Peter Jackson said is the reason Tom

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Speaker 3: Bombadil and the Barrow Downs and all that is not

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Speaker 3: in his version of the movie at all, is that

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Speaker 3: it does not advance the plot, like you can cut

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Speaker 3: it out and nothing is really changed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The only criticism I've seen of that is people say, well,

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Speaker 1: this is where the Hobbits get their initial weapons from

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Speaker 1: the trove of the Barrel Whites. You know, Tom Bombadil

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Speaker 1: picks stuff out for them, and without that, you just

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Speaker 1: have Strider randomly handing out Hobbit sized weapons later on

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Speaker 1: in the film. But I don't know, I think that's

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Speaker 1: that's a small, small, small point to harp on.

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Speaker 3: But This is interesting because it leads to one of

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Speaker 3: the major differences in storytelling structure between this adaptation of

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Speaker 3: Fellowship and say Peter Jackson's. I mean, it's funny in

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Speaker 3: many ways to compare them.

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Speaker 4: Though.

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Speaker 3: Another thing that's funny is that they only came out

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Speaker 3: about ten years apart. Yeah, if you can fit that

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Speaker 3: in your brain.

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Speaker 1: Ten years and however many millions and millions of dollars.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's also so. The Peter Jackson movies

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Speaker 3: were a multimillion dollar production, and from what I can

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Speaker 3: tell I was reading. Actually, there's a very good article

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Speaker 3: in Variety about the production of Chronatelli that interviews some

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Speaker 3: of the actors who were originally involved in it. They're

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Speaker 3: still alive, still working. They talked to Georgi Steel, who

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Speaker 3: played Bilbo Baggins in this production, who I think is

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Speaker 3: like eighty nine now or something. He's still acting and

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Speaker 3: he's a great actor, by the way. I mean. One

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Speaker 3: of the funny things about this is, despite how threadbear

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Speaker 3: the production is a lot of the actors in it

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Speaker 3: are legends of the Leningrad Saint Petersburg theater scene.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it shines through playing Bilbo is great. The

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Speaker 1: actor playing Gandalf is great. Some of the others I

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Speaker 1: have notes on, but those two in particular are wonderful.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, don't dismiss this title on the acting love.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, some of the acting may come off a little weird,

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Speaker 1: especially if you have certain expectations for some of these characters.

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Speaker 1: But there are a lot of talented people involved in this.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've got thoughts about that. I'm going to get

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Speaker 3: two in a second, but sorry, I started to introduce

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Speaker 3: this article and then I didn't fully put it out there.

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Speaker 3: So it's an article in Variety by Rebecca Davis called

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Speaker 3: Inside the Soviet Lord of the Rings cast details their

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Speaker 3: epic TV movie Uncovered after thirty years I was published

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Speaker 3: a few months ago, I think, And this is a

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Speaker 3: really great article, like I said, because it manages to

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Speaker 3: get a number of people who were actually involved in

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Speaker 3: this obscure production on the record to explain what was

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Speaker 3: going on. And so one of the things emphasized by

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Speaker 3: several actors here is that this movie had essentially no

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Speaker 3: budget at all. It was made I think over the

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Speaker 3: course of an estimated nine hours total of shooting that

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Speaker 3: took place in a few sessions in less than a week. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, one of the actors was explaining that they

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Speaker 3: know they'd sort of come together. They'd rehearse a scene

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Speaker 3: very quickly, and then they just shoot it and they

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Speaker 3: do no second takes, and then they just move on

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Speaker 3: to the next thing. And like all of the stuff

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Speaker 3: was sourced from just what was lying around the Leningrad

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Speaker 3: TV stations. With the costumes, the sets, the props, almost

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Speaker 3: all of them were just repurposed whatever they could borrow

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Speaker 3: from other previous productions. I think maybe the most complex

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Speaker 3: things we get in terms of filmmaking are the shots

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Speaker 3: of people riding horses out in the snow, and so

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Speaker 3: you get several shots of that that are supposed to

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Speaker 3: be the nine the Ring Raiths who were hunting the Ring,

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Speaker 3: and then you also get some shots of the Hobbits

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Speaker 3: riding ponies out in the snow. And one of the actors,

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Speaker 3: i think Sergei Shelganov, who played Mary brandy Buck, talks

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Speaker 3: about how he'd never ridden a horse before shooting that

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Speaker 3: scene and never he's never ridden a horse since, and

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Speaker 3: it was the coldest he's ever been.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there is one thing we should point out about

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Speaker 1: this film is that there is there is intense, an

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Speaker 1: intense feeling of winter in this and in fact, there's

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Speaker 1: a point in the film where Gandalf tells, I think

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Speaker 1: he's telling Frodo, right, He says, Frodo, winter is coming back.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. They keep saying winter is coming over and over.

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Speaker 3: This also long predates the Germ and it's a it's

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Speaker 3: an interesting cultural adaptation of Lord of the Rings because

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Speaker 3: you know, so Lord of the Rings is very much

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Speaker 3: about weather and landscape and and and traveling across the

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Speaker 3: terrain and experiencing nature as you're on a hard journey,

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Speaker 3: but winter and snow don't play that big of a

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Speaker 3: I mean, the snow is a big part of their

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Speaker 3: attempt to get over the Karadhras when they're you know,

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Speaker 3: trying to go over the mountains, and then they fail

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Speaker 3: doing that and have to go back down into the

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Speaker 3: minds of Moria. But overall, I don't recall snow being

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Speaker 3: a big part of the journey in the books. No,

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Speaker 3: But hey, you know that you got to adapt to

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Speaker 3: the local terrain, so if you need to shoot locally,

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Speaker 3: that's what you're doing. But then the other thing is

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Speaker 3: this this film actually does while it's mostly just shooting

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Speaker 3: actors doing a first take of a scene on a

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Speaker 3: set at this Leningrad TV station or maybe at some

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Speaker 3: other locations around town. I'm not sure. They They actually

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Speaker 3: do have a couple of scenes that have special effects

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Speaker 3: in them. For example, there is one scene where the

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Speaker 3: four Hobbits are dining at the house of Tom Bombadil

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Speaker 3: and Goldberry, and they recast Bombadill and Goldberry as giants.

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Speaker 3: You know that they're like not just a little bit

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Speaker 3: bigger than the Hobbits, but they're like enormous compared to them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's which I don't think they're that big in

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Speaker 1: the book there, like he's supposed to be kind of shortish,

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Speaker 1: actually stout but short. But yeah, they're titans in this.

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Speaker 1: But it's an impressive shot. That's pretty good.

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Speaker 3: Some of the articles have not agreed with you there,

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Speaker 3: but I don't know, I bought it. I was there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, taking into account the zero budget. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: also just kind of the charm of the production, like

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Speaker 1: there is there is this made for television like decayed

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Speaker 1: quality h charm to it, and yeah, you know you

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Speaker 1: don't want to see a perfect special effect in that.

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Speaker 1: And then also if I'm going to be more critical there.

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Speaker 1: There are far lousier special effects in this film, like

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Speaker 1: that's not the one to really, that's not the hill

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Speaker 1: to die on, the giant tom bomba Delf scene.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say on the on the worst side

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Speaker 3: of the visual effects present. There's one thing where it

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Speaker 3: seems like sometimes that we're trying to evoke a sense

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Speaker 3: of mystery or kind of I don't know, the the

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Speaker 3: general visual obscurity of fantasy and the deep past by

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Speaker 3: doing what looks like smearing the camera lens with the

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Speaker 3: translucent gel of some sort. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's something we've seen. I've seen this in other

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Speaker 1: productions as well, but they're they're definitely doing it here.

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Speaker 3: Oh but sorry, I wanted to come back to something

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Speaker 3: we brought up a minute ago, which is that, you know,

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Speaker 3: I want to be generous to this, but but I

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Speaker 3: think it is clear that a lot of the performances,

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Speaker 3: the acting performances in this are way off base. They're

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Speaker 3: just bizarre renditions of these now well known and now

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Speaker 3: beloved characters, despite the fact that a lot of the

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Speaker 3: actors in this production are actually great actors of the

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Speaker 3: stage at least, you know, people who have done a

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Speaker 3: lot of work before and since in the Leningrad Saint

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Speaker 3: Petersburg theater scene, and they're highly trained, well respected actors,

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Speaker 3: So what's going on here? I think actually a lot

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Speaker 3: of the bizarre performances are a result of confusion about

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Speaker 3: the characterizations themselves, Like something is getting lost in translation

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Speaker 3: of how to understand what these characters' personalities are and

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Speaker 3: how we should feel about them. So I would say

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Speaker 3: one of the big examples is, again I don't want

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Speaker 3: to single him out because I think he's I think

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Speaker 3: he's actually a good actor. But the actor who plays

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Speaker 3: fro Do makes some really strang like in this movie,

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Speaker 3: especially towards the beginning, is this insufferable alfredy Newman brat,

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Speaker 3: Like he looks like he should be wearing a sailor

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Speaker 3: suit and have a lollipop in his mouth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, they are shades of got a hint of

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Speaker 1: Alan Cumming, a hint of mister Bean, Yeah, hint of

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Speaker 1: pee Wee Herman.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, mister Bean and Pee Wee Herman. Absolutely, but with

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Speaker 3: like a red wig on and a wet mouth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he's so. I mean Frodo and Bilbo too. You know,

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Speaker 1: there are certainly times where they're written and they come

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Speaker 1: off as kind of, you know, wimpy and not up

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Speaker 1: for the journey, and they have to overcome that. But man,

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Speaker 1: this fro Do, like he has this one line where

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Speaker 1: at least it was translated as he's talking to Gandolf

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Speaker 1: and he says, you've spoken for so long it makes

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Speaker 1: me hungry. And I was like, oh my god, you're

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Speaker 1: not going to get out of the shire alive. Frodo.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, the worst, but yeah, yeah, what are

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Speaker 3: his epithets? Frodo worst heart, Frodo, Frodo underwhelm, Frodo underwhelm,

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Speaker 3: Frodo cries a lot, Frodo lollymouth.

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Speaker 1: But even this actor is still around, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think so. At least one of the articles I

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Speaker 3: was reading about it mentioned something about him, though I

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Speaker 3: don't think he was interviewed. But yeah, again, I don't

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Speaker 3: want to chalk that up to like the actor being

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Speaker 3: a bad actor. I would say instead, we now, I think,

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Speaker 3: especially since the Peter Jackson movies, we have a more

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Speaker 3: cemented idea of how each of these characters should be received.

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Speaker 3: What's sort of the canon appearance and tone for their

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Speaker 3: representation on screen and at the time and place this

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Speaker 3: was being made. I think something was just getting lost

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Speaker 3: because even though there has for a long time been

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Speaker 3: great love for Tolkien's works in Russia and even in

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Speaker 3: the Soviet Union, there's obviously some difficulty in the adaptation.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's a translation process going on, and it's

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Speaker 3: not even always a totally like a free and organic

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Speaker 3: translation process.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, on that note, let's just start with the obvious.

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Speaker 1: The title Kronatelly. What does this mean? Well, I believe

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Speaker 1: it translates from Russian as the keepers and as in

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Speaker 1: like the keepers or the guardians of the Ring. Incidentally,

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Speaker 1: this is also the translated title for the Russian release

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Speaker 1: of the two thousand and nine Zack Snyder adaptation of Watchmen.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Chronatellio, Okay, I see yeah yah.

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Speaker 1: So if you do start doing a search for Chronatelly

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Speaker 1: or for the actual cyrillic of that, you'll suddenly get

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Speaker 1: all these pictures of Watchmen, and you may find yourself confused.

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Speaker 1: You think I'm looking for Lord of the Rings and

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Speaker 1: instead here is a you know Borshakh.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute, though, so how do so? Obviously the

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Speaker 3: Peter Jackson movies, once those were made, were actually released

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Speaker 3: in Russia, what do they call the Fellowship there.

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Speaker 1: I believe the title in Russian is Brastavo Kortsa, which

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Speaker 1: means Brotherhood of the Ring.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, that seems like a fairly faithful rendition.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Now, as for Russian translations of the book itself,

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Speaker 1: this is all very interesting and I think is also

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Speaker 1: something to keep in mind when we're talking about like,

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Speaker 1: how are these characters framed, et cetera. Fellowship of the

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Speaker 1: Ring has an interesting history in Russia. It was originally

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Speaker 1: published in the West, of course, in nineteen fifty four,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, naturally English reading Russians could have

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Speaker 1: conceivably read it as early as that, but the first

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Speaker 1: Russian translation didn't occur till nineteen sixty six, a short

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Speaker 1: retelling that didn't see the light of publication until nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 1: And the translation we see in the film here is

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Speaker 1: it's apparently based on a nineteen eighty two translation that

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Speaker 1: was a bridge to comply with Soviet censorship.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so what we're getting is a Leningrad TV teleplay

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Speaker 3: adaptation of a censored and abridged translation of the original novel.

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Speaker 1: Right right, And for a while this was there have

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Speaker 1: been subsequent translations in Russian of The Lord of the Rings,

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Speaker 1: but for the longest this was the only official version

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Speaker 1: you could get in the r Now, according to Mark Hooker,

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Speaker 1: the author of Tolkien Through Russian Eyes, cited in Alan

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Speaker 1: Juhas's excellent New York Times article on this film, the

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Speaker 1: major stalling points stalling, not Stalin points. The stalling points

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Speaker 1: that the hang ups surrounding the original text for the

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Speaker 1: Soviet censors were perceived quote religious themes or the depiction

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Speaker 1: of desperate Western allies uniting against a sinister power from

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Speaker 1: the east.

430
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can see how the Soviet censors might not

431
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 3: have been keen on a book that's about allies coming

432
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 3: together to fight an empire in the East.

433
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean, so to say the least, Russia

434
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: has a different history with Lord of the Rings compared

435
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,120
Speaker 1: to other parts of the world, certainly compared to England

436
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: and America. The work itself, of course, has an appeal

437
00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: that defies borders and nationalities, though based in the mythology

438
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: and literatures that Tolkien himself was most familiar with, and

439
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: these these include mostly non Russian and Slavic influences. Apparent

440
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 1: I was reading Tolkien had tried to learn Russian at

441
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: one point and it didn't take. Here's what he had

442
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,479
Speaker 1: to say in one of his letters, quote, I love music,

443
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: but have no aptitude for it. Slavonic languages are for

444
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: me almost in the same category. I've had to go

445
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 1: at many tongues in my time, but I am in

446
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 1: no ordinary sense of linguist, and the time I once

447
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: spent on trying to learn Serbian and Russian have left

448
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: me with no practical results, only a strong impression of

449
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 1: the structure and word aesthetic.

450
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that seems correct. I mean, based on my experience

451
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: with Tolkien, it seems like most of the language and

452
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 3: mythology that he tends to draw from is what you

453
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 3: would say. I think mainly like Northern Europeans, sort of

454
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 3: like Scandinavian, Germanic and Celtic.

455
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, that's my understanding as well. So we

456
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: have that going on, and then we have this added

457
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: layer of censorship state suspicion of the work, and it's

458
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: been sieminglarly longer lasting mixes of both the rich enthusiasm

459
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: for Tolkien. I was reading that Moscow has or had

460
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: a Tolkien museum of sorts. The photos were not I

461
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: mean they looked fun. It looked fun, but it also

462
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: looked kind of small but still dedicated Tolkien Museum in Moscow.

463
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, one thing that I'm sure of, though I

464
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 3: don't know if this particular question was ever asked to him,

465
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 3: I think other similar questions were put to him. I

466
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 3: know that Tolkien strenuously objected to any attempt to read

467
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 3: Lord of the Rings or any of his works as

468
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 3: allegory for real world or historical events. In fact, he

469
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 3: made clear that he hated allegory, and he thought that

470
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 3: it was stupid and insulting to the audience to like

471
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 3: write a fantasy tale that was supposed to be an

472
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 3: allegory for I don't know, world War two, I think

473
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 3: would be the more often thing. People would be, Oh,

474
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 3: is Mordor supposed to be the Nazis or whatever. I

475
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 3: think his attitude was more, No, I'm writing an original story,

476
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 3: and you may see elements of it that make you

477
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 3: think about things that have happened in the real world,

478
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 3: but that's your prerogative. This is not meant to be

479
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 3: taken as an allegory for any events past, present, or future.

480
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and yet once you certainly have say, state

481
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: suspicion concerning the work. I guess that's kind of hard

482
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: to completely eradicate, and I feel like this is probably

483
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: best encapsulated in a book by Russian author kiro Eskov

484
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: came out in nineteen ninety nine, at least in parts

485
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: of the world in Russia, titled The Last Ring Bear,

486
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,479
Speaker 1: which spins the story of the Lord of the Rings

487
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: by taking the view of Mordor as a state misunderstood

488
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: by the victors who wrote the history.

489
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 3: Right, So it's kind of a sequel to Lord of

490
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 3: the Rings, but it says, Okay, you've read Lord of

491
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: the Rings, but now consider this. Lord of the Rings

492
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 3: is the version of the story you're getting from the elves, basically.

493
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,479
Speaker 1: Right, the idea that the elves have a grudge in

494
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: all of this, and of course they're going to depict

495
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: more Door as this awful, stinking, you know, death realm,

496
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: as opposed to what The Last Ring Bear frames it

497
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: as as the cultural and the technological center of Middle Earth.

498
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the way this novel reframes it is

499
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 3: that Mordor is a place that kind of eschewes magic

500
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 3: and is trying to create a scientific and technological civilization

501
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 3: and it almost casts Again, I don't know how much

502
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 3: the author would agree with this, but just having read

503
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 3: summaries of the plot and some of the themes in it,

504
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 3: it seems to me almost like the Elves and Gandalf

505
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 3: might be somewhat equivalent to the Axis powers in World

506
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 3: War Two, and that they're, you know, trying to promote

507
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 3: this kind of fantasy, romantic mysticism view of the world

508
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: and trying to destroy the society and culture and people

509
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 3: of Mordor before they can grow too powerful through scientific

510
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 3: and technological means.

511
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, as a thought experience, it sounds fun taking, like

512
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: essentially doing what some would accuse Tolkien of having done.

513
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: But that being said, yeah, I don't think Tolkien would

514
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: have approved of this, and I know the Tolkien estate

515
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: would not approve of this, and that's one of the

516
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: reasons you'll find no official translation of this in the

517
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: US now.

518
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 3: As for other film or TV adaptations of Tolkien's works,

519
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 3: in the Soviet Union, I was reading, I think there

520
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 3: was an adaptation at some point of The Hobbit that

521
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 3: has some major plot changes but does involve Ballet. And

522
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 3: I've never seen this, but I would like to. But

523
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 3: I was also reading an article in The Guardian by

524
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: Andrew Roth, who I think is one of their Moscow correspondents,

525
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 3: that was about this release of chron and Telly, this

526
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 3: adaptation of Fellowship from nineteen ninety one. And Roth notes

527
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 3: a couple of other interesting things about the history of

528
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,719
Speaker 3: film adaptations of Lord of the Rings in Russia. So

529
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 3: one of them is that he mentions there was a

530
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety one animated version of The Hobbit that was

531
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 3: going to be called something like The Treasure under the

532
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 3: Mountain that was partially animated, but it was never finished.

533
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 3: But he links to this clip that somebody has put

534
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: on the Internet of allegedly what is like six minutes

535
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 3: of what was going to become this movie, and I

536
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 3: checked it out, and this is gorgeous. I wish they

537
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 3: had made this whole adaptation. I mean, it looks phenomenally

538
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 3: beautiful to me.

539
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It does have a lot of charm

540
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: to it, and in a way it makes one wonder

541
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 1: what it will be like when, when and if? Who

542
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: knows how Copyright laws could potentially change in the future,

543
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: But at what point Tolkien's work becomes the you know,

544
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: the property of the people at large, you know, and

545
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: when you reach the point where just about anybody can

546
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: can do some sort of retelling or spin on Tolkien,

547
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: you know, what would it be like if you had

548
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: What would a Japanese Lord of the Rings be like?

549
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: What would a Mexican Lord of the Rings be like?

550
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: Oh, I'd love to see that. Yeah?

551
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: What would say a Minds of Maria horror film be like?

552
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many different directions you could go

553
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: in in Middle Earth where you know right now, certainly

554
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: if you're putting out any kind of like major production,

555
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,719
Speaker 1: it needs to be very much in line with what

556
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: the estate will approve off. I understand.

557
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 3: There's another really funny thing noted in that article by

558
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 3: Andrew Roth about this concern is something we were talking

559
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 3: about earlier tone getting lost in the translation to the

560
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: Russian version, which is that when the Peter Jackson Lord

561
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 3: of the Rings movies were released in Russia, there was

562
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 3: one version of them, one dubbed version that was popular,

563
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 3: that was dubbed by somebody who was a translator named

564
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 3: Dmitri Puchkov, operating under the pseudonym Goblin, and allegedly, according

565
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 3: to Roth, I've never heard this myself. His dubbed version

566
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: of Lord of the Rings was noted for being filled

567
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 3: with profanity that was not there in the original text,

568
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 3: and other funny things like, for example, Frodo in it

569
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 3: is called Fiodor, and Legolas has a Baltic accent, and

570
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: like aer Igorn is like yelling, like is like cussing

571
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 3: at his troops.

572
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: All right, well, I don't know if I approve of

573
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: cussing in the Lord of the Rings, but that's interesting.

574
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 3: Nonetheless, that really would change the tone for me. Yeah.

575
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: Well, we don't have a trailer per se, but I

576
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: think it's high time we give everyone just a little

577
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: taste of the sonic wonder is to be found in

578
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: this film.

579
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: Oh you know what we should play is the is

580
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 3: the opening music. We haven't even talked about the music yet,

581
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 3: which is like the how do we go this far

582
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 3: without the music? The music is like one of the

583
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 3: greatest selling points of this right.

584
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: The music in this film is not what you might

585
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: expect from a Lord of the Rings adaptation. It is

586
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,959
Speaker 1: in no way traditional. It is all over the board

587
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: there so I kuint of it. Something like five different

588
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: genres of music used to tell the story, and I

589
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: have to say, I love it. It's very liberating. You

590
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: don't know what you're gonna get.

591
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 3: Okay, let's get that opening song. That is I think

592
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,719
Speaker 3: that the words in this song are a Russian translation

593
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 3: of the inscription on the ring that's in the book.

594
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,239
Speaker 3: So you know, seven to the dwarf floors in their

595
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 3: halls of stone, nine immortal men doomed to die. That

596
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 3: kind of thing.

597
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 4: Here you go, easier.

598
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: Do I love it? Russian folk rock?

599
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 3: This movie is full of Russian folk rock also, though,

600
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 3: I love the way that, like you said, it just

601
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 3: pulls in every possible genre. One of my favorite musical

602
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 3: touches is that Gandalf's wizard word powers include the ability

603
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 3: to cast spells of folk music.

604
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that is one of the great sequences that

605
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: if you don't watch the whole thing. I'll also include

606
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: the highlight reel that somebody put together. I'll include that

607
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: on the some moody music dot com yeah blog post

608
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: for this this episode, because in that you'll see a

609
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: lot of the points we're talking about here, including the

610
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: funky magic of of Gandolf the Gray.

611
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 3: Now, we would normally do a section here where we

612
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 3: go in depth about a lot of the people involved

613
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 3: in the production of this, especially the cast. That's going

614
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 3: to be harder to do in this case because a

615
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 3: lot of these people didn't do a lot of films

616
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 3: and are more kind of in the say, Leningrad or

617
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: Saint Petersburg commune theater community. And to the extent that

618
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 3: they did do films, they're not really films that we

619
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 3: would be that we're familiar with. There are a lot of,

620
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 3: you know, Russian movies.

621
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so certainly, I know we have some listeners out

622
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: there who are who are who are Russian or have

623
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 1: have a greater understanding of Russian cinema. So if if

624
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: if you have any notes on people that we're mentioning

625
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: here or not mentioning at all in any detail, certainly

626
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: ride in and let us know. But we'll try and

627
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: we'll cover some of the high points and at least

628
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: a couple of the people that are connected to Western

629
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: films of note or Russian films that are of note internationally.

630
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 3: So the director was somebody named Natalia Cerebryakova, who I

631
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 3: think she went by Natasha. Actually is Natasha like a

632
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 3: normal and a nickname for Natalia. I'm not sure I

633
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 3: would assume that, but she One of the main things

634
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 3: I was reading about her was that several of these

635
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: articles mentioned that she was really insistent about getting the

636
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 3: shots of the horses riding outside to really like heighten

637
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 3: the heighten the sense of place in the movie. And

638
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 3: because and it's good that you did, because otherwise almost

639
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 3: the entire thing would be shot indoors in these closed sets.

640
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I think this was a great choice on

641
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: her part, because, yeah, those were some great scenes arrative.

642
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 3: Like, well, the greatest thing about them actually is that

643
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 3: so when you saw the nine, you know, there weren't

644
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 3: nine of them in the production. Sometimes there'd be like

645
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 3: two ring raids. You'd see them riding through the snow

646
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 3: and they've got these black hoods on, and it is

647
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 3: playing synthesizer sequencers like I think, I don't know if

648
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 3: they're Mogus or like Moge sequencers, Like you know that

649
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 3: that kind of like thrumbing, pulsating synthesizer music that actually,

650
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 3: I mean, you wouldn't think normally, Yeah, yeah, put electronic

651
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,720
Speaker 3: synth music in Lord of the Rings. But hey, it works,

652
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 3: it's good. I like it.

653
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: I Yeah, I absolutely loved these these moments where they

654
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: dropped in this ring rais synth because it has this again,

655
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: this kind of like ninety early nineties TV synth vibe

656
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: to it. It really gave me the warm feels and

657
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 1: it actually reminds me of some of the sounds that

658
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: Boards of Canada were using in some of their early works,

659
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: some of their their their early tracks have this exact

660
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: same sort of vibe. So it really got me. In fact,

661
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 1: let's not just talk about it, let's have a quick

662
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 1: sample of these vibes. You so good, so good.

663
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 3: I love that. Watching a production like this, actually it

664
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 3: makes you question things that you had not even realized

665
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 3: were assumptions you had made, like the assumption that the

666
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 3: proper musical aesthetic for a fantasy film is like classic

667
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 3: is orchestral classical music basically, or you know, liv Tyler

668
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 3: singing somber a cappella dirges for for elf kind. But

669
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 3: it makes you actually ask the question, wait a minute,

670
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 3: why shouldn't Lord of the Rings have electronic music? Why

671
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 3: why shouldn't it have mode sequencers and funk bass and

672
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 3: weird saxophone and stuff. And it makes you you say, Okay,

673
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 3: is there a reason or is this just the received

674
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 3: aesthetic that I never even bothered to think about. I

675
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 3: respect the boldness of these musical choices, and I'm not

676
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 3: even sure if the people who made this realize they

677
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 3: were bold. Maybe they were just working without some kind

678
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 3: of mental shackles that we've put on ourselves about fantasy here.

679
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they were making this film without these

680
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,959
Speaker 1: other expectations. And I mean I'm one certainly to say, yes,

681
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: any film is better off with an electronic score, even

682
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: if it's not very good, it's better. But then again,

683
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: like we recently talked about regarding Cannibal Apocalypse, you know,

684
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: there are also certain standards within a given film culture.

685
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: There are certain expectations about the music and what you

686
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: can do with music. So you know, maybe that's the

687
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: answer here.

688
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Well, like we talked about in Cannibal Apocalypse,

689
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 3: if you watch Italian horror thriller movies from the seventies

690
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 3: and eighties, one thing you'll notice is that for some reason,

691
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 3: the Italian directors seem to think that funk is scary

692
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 3: or the disco music heightens tension, and American audiences don't

693
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 3: seem to agree with this, like it feels incongruous, it

694
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 3: doesn't fit, but it just kind of proves to you

695
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 3: that the moods evoked by certain genres or sounds of

696
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 3: music or not universal, they can be highly culturally contingent.

697
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 3: For some reason. To the Italians, it makes sense for

698
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 3: the funk music to kick in while somebody's creeping up

699
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 3: with the knife. But to American audiences that sounds funny.

700
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And perhaps for Russian audiences, or at least for

701
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: the filmmakers involved here, an accordion is the appropriate instrument

702
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: to play when Frodo is stabbed by a ring wraith.

703
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 3: Oh my god? Yes, yeah that was true, wasn't it. Yeah, Well,

704
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 3: maybe this brings us to somebody else we should definitely

705
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 3: mention as being involved with Cronatelli. And this is Andre Romanov.

706
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 3: I think he may have gone by Diusha, but Romanov

707
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 3: had several roles with this film. He was a composer,

708
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 3: so I think he did all or most of the

709
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 3: music for the movie. I'm almost positive he did the version,

710
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 3: the musical version that you heard earlier. That's the adaptation

711
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 3: of the inscription on the ring that somber haunting, almost

712
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 3: kind of like old church chant folk rock. But in

713
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 3: this he's also the narrator of the film. This is

714
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 3: another choice that it makes that I really like this.

715
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 3: Lord of the Rings has a fully embodied narrator, like

716
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 3: you know Masterpiece Theater. He just sits there and he

717
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 3: smokes a pipe and talks into the camera telling you

718
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 3: the story.

719
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 1: And sometimes he does just sit there. There are times, yeah,

720
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: he doesn't seem to be in a particular hurry to

721
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: tell you the story of the Fellowship of the Ring.

722
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You see Gandalf chase down Gollum and

723
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 3: he's like, hey, stop lying to me, pal and galums squirming,

724
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 3: and then it might cut to him and he's just

725
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 3: sitting there packing a pipe for a couple minutes, and

726
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 3: then he'll start telling you what happens next.

727
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 4: Oh.

728
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 3: But the other thing I didn't mention is that Romanov

729
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,320
Speaker 3: was a member of the famous Russian rock band Aquarium

730
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 3: or Okvarium, which I think was based out of Leningrad.

731
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 3: Was first formed in the early seventies, when I think

732
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: it was tough being a rock band in the Soviet

733
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 3: Union in the early seventies, but I think as Glasnos

734
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 3: came on in the eighties, they had more musical freedom,

735
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 3: and now this is one of the most famous Russian

736
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 3: rock bands. I know they you know, they played Leningrad

737
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 3: clubs all the time, and they've got a ton of albums.

738
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 3: I was listening to some Akvarium while I was making

739
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 3: my coffee this morning, and it definitely made me want

740
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 3: to like Hugh Wood with Grandfather Mushroom. I think they've

741
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 3: done a bunch of different genres, a kind of eclectic

742
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 3: musical group, but a lot of it sounded basically to

743
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 3: me like electric acoustic folk rock.

744
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: It reminded me a lot, and I don't know if

745
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: this is a fair comparison. Reminded me of the music

746
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: of Al Stewart to a certain extent.

747
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 3: I don't think I really know Al Stewart, so.

748
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: Oh, you know, he did well, I guess ironically. He

749
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: did a song called Roads to Moscow that's rather good.

750
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: But he else did You're the Cat Old Admirals. Yeah.

751
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: But he did a lot of tracks that had hit

752
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: a track titled Nostrodamus, so he had a try a

753
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: lot of number of tracks that were kind of lengthy

754
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: and had historical settings to them. Good stuff. I like

755
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: Al Stewart. I fire him up every now and then.

756
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 3: Okay, well, I'll say I not only love Romanov's music

757
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 3: in this movie, but I love him as the narrator.

758
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 3: I really enjoy the way he makes us sit and

759
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: wait for him to tell us something else.

760
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: While we're talking about the music. I also want to

761
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: go ahead and drop one more audio sample, and that

762
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: is some of the excellent Galam music. Because the Galum

763
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: music is also seemingly in a slightly different genre. It's

764
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: our kind of creepy vocal reverb kind of soundscape. I

765
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,919
Speaker 1: don't know how you would describe this, Joe.

766
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. It's very echoey. Gollum growls in

767
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: this movie. He growls like a dog, and then Gandalf

768
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:57,879
Speaker 3: growls back at him.

769
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: And it should we have to stray us. Gollum kind

770
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 1: of dances kind of has extended dance sequences that that

771
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: that should you have to see them to believe them.

772
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: They're pretty wonderful. Let's have just a sample of that.

773
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: Isn't it dreamy? That's one. I mean, that's almost like

774
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: I'm the reminded of stuff like Nurse with wound or

775
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: robbing gristle there.

776
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 3: This movie has a number of so I watched it

777
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 3: with Rachel and she she said that the movie was

778
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 3: hypnotating her it does.

779
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: I fell asleep once during it in a very pleasant way.

780
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 3: The Gollumn sequence was one of the most hypnotody of

781
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 3: the entire movie for.

782
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: Me, absolutely all right. So I'm I'm not gonna really

783
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time on any of the other

784
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: cast members, but I do want to mention two actors

785
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: that are in it because they have some interesting connections.

786
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: First of all, there's Sergei Parshon, who plays Tom Bombadill.

787
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,240
Speaker 1: He was born nineteen fifty two. I believe he's still around.

788
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,479
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if he's acting or not. He's known

789
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 1: for such films, at least in Russia as The Plane

790
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: Flies to Russia from ninety four the Fall of the

791
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: Empire in two thousand and five, but he's been in

792
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: some titles with a bunch of Western names in them

793
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: as well, and these include Bernard Rose's nineteen ninety seven

794
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: adaptation of Anna Karenina that stars Sophie Marceau, Sean Bean,

795
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: Alfred Molina, Fiona Shaw, and Danny Houston. So this actor

796
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: is our bridge, the bridge we need to connect this

797
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: film to Peter Jackson's two thousand and one adaptation.

798
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 3: That's amazing, and this reminds me so Sean Being, of course,

799
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 3: plays Borimir, the hero of Gondor in the in the

800
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 3: Peter Jackson adaptation, and Sean Bean absolutely wonderful in that role.

801
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 3: You know, the best Boromir you could hope for. But

802
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 3: there was something I think it was in that Variety article.

803
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 3: If not, it was in one of the other ones

804
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 3: I was reading that had an interview with the actory

805
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:17,919
Speaker 3: of Guiney Solyakov, who plays Borimir in the in Kronatelli

806
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 3: and so Yakov apparently is a big fan of the

807
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 3: Peter Jackson adaptations, and I think they caused him to

808
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 3: wish that he had portrayed Borimir differently than he did.

809
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 3: So there's I just want to read. From that article

810
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 3: and Variety by Rebecca Davis. Here, quoting Soyakov, she writes,

811
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 3: watching the film for the first time last month, he

812
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 3: felt he perhaps hadn't been quite ready to take on

813
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 3: the complexities of the flawed hero. Quote. I don't think

814
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 3: I played the role to the fullest. I wish I

815
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 3: hadn't been so emotional when I was trying to explain

816
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 3: why I wanted the ring. I should have remained very

817
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 3: composed and I think that's interesting. So seeing like actors

818
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 3: who were in this having watched later movie at as

819
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 3: and saying like, oh, okay, I didn't really understand the

820
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 3: character I was supposed to be playing. But like, now

821
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 3: that I saw the Peter Jackson adaptation, like saw Sean Bean, like,

822
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 3: Borimir makes more sense to me, And here's how I

823
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 3: should have done it. You know, you should have. Like

824
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: one thing that's great about Borimir is you know, Borimir

825
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: has a point. Borimir in a way like his heart

826
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 3: is in the right place. He's saying, give me the

827
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 3: weapon of the enemy, so that I may defend the

828
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 3: world against it.

829
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: M hmm.

830
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 3: But of course in this movie, it's quite funny actually,

831
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 3: because they're having the counsel of el Ron where everybody's

832
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 3: you know, they're talking about what to do with the ring,

833
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 3: and Borimir just starts going like, give me the ring,

834
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 3: give it, give it to me.

835
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that doesn't doesn't work quite as well, does it.

836
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 3: Yeah. It kind of makes you think, like, well, why'd

837
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 3: they bring him along if in the initial meeting he's like,

838
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 3: it must be mine.

839
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: Now, I know what a lot of you are wondering.

840
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 1: You're you're thinking to yourself. All right, you guys have

841
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: been able to find an actor in this film that

842
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 1: connects it to the cinematic universe of the Peter Jackson

843
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: Order of the Rings movies. But can you connect it

844
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: to the cinematic universe of Eli Roth? And yes we can. Okay,

845
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: that's because we have an actor by the name of

846
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: Lillian Malkina who plays I believe the matriarch of the

847
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: Saxville Baggins is.

848
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 3: The Sackville Torbens is.

849
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: Oh, it's the Sackville Tourbinson's.

850
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 3: Well, no, no, no, it's the same thing, because in

851
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 3: this it's Bilbo Torbins and Frodo Torbins. I don't know

852
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 3: what that change means, but they didn't go with Baggins.

853
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: Well, at any rate, she's the matriarch. She has several

854
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: notable scenes here standing around with Bilbo. She was in

855
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: Eli Roth's hostel too, and she was in his Thanksgiving short,

856
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: the fake trailer for Thanksgiving Like a Thanksgiving nineteen seventy

857
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: slasher film, in which she plays the grandmother.

858
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 3: Oh, so I think she gets murdered and then like

859
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 3: dressed up like a turkey.

860
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 1: I think so. Yes. Yeah, Now, another actor in this

861
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: that went on to appear in some some Western productions.

862
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: Galadriol is played by Elena Solive, who appeared in the

863
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: Lost City of Z and also in The Sopranos. And

864
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: on top of this, she won an award for Best

865
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: Supporting Actress in the film Factas at the nineteen eighty

866
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: one Cans Film Festival. So that's pretty cool.

867
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 3: In The Sopranos, I believe she plays Junior's nurse, taking

868
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 3: care of him when he's under house arrest. It's not

869
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 3: a major role. I think she plays the cousin of

870
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 3: one of Tony's girlfriends.

871
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 1: But she's perhaps the only actor from the Sopranos to

872
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: appear in an adaptation of The Lord of the Rings.

873
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 3: Right, as far as I know, what if.

874
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: You had to had to recast The Lord of the

875
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: Rings using only actors who appeared in The Sopranos, Now

876
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: there's a challenge.

877
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 3: Okay, Robert Loja as Saar Ruman, I'm gonna go with

878
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with James Gandolphini rest in peace. But

879
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 3: assuming they're all still James Gandolfinis, Borimir perfect Bormar.

880
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: You're not tempted by the Gandolphini Gandolf connection.

881
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 3: There No, and he's not Gandalf like, but he is

882
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 3: like Bormere. He's got that kind of that kind of

883
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 3: reckless complexity. Hm hm oh oh oh oh. Seth just

884
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 3: chimed in with the best possible suggestion, which of course

885
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,439
Speaker 3: is Steve Bushmi as Gollum. There you go. Oh man,

886
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 3: my name's Meatl.

887
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: Hello, Fellow Ring Bears. So many awesome directions you could

888
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: go in. You sho't's wonderful. He would have he would

889
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: have been able to nail it for sure.

890
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,439
Speaker 3: So good. Okay, the guy who plays Furyo, that's that's

891
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 3: our lego less I believe. Anyway, Okay, we got to

892
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 3: move on. I figure at this point we should just

893
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 3: mention a few things that we took notes on while

894
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 3: we were watching this. I mean, obviously we're not going

895
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 3: to recap the story because you know, either you you

896
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 3: basically know the story of Fellowship the Ring, or if

897
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 3: you don't, you've probably stopped listening at this point already.

898
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's see, So we'll just touch on some things

899
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 1: that that struck us. I will say, the Hobbit scenes,

900
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: the Hobbits partying at Bilbo's birthday party, pretty great. I

901
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: feel like they helped to convey the sort of universal

902
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: fulkiness that is found in the Shire. You know, just

903
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: about any culture can relate to that on some level,

904
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: though I don't know. The Hobbits felt perhaps drunker than usual,

905
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,720
Speaker 1: Like there was kind of a dwarven level of drunkenness

906
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: to the Hobbits. And I didn't think we had dwarves

907
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: at all in this adaptation, did we?

908
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: So?

909
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 3: Dwarf and I had Gimley, we had Gimbley.

910
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 4: Was Gimmy there?

911
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: I just thought Gimley was absent? No, Gimley was Gimley Gimley.

912
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 3: He was the guy in the Red Cape and Hood

913
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 3: after the Fellowship formed. He has a Gimley And legalists

914
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 3: are almost non existent in this adaptation the Fellowship. So

915
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 3: we mentioned the strange plot structure. It crams about half

916
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 3: of the Fellowship of the Ring into the last fifteen minutes,

917
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 3: so the Fellowship is not formed until there are like, yeah,

918
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 3: like fifteen minutes left to go out of this two

919
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 3: hour production, and instead it decides to spend almost all

920
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 3: of its time with things going on with the Hobbits

921
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 3: at the beginning, and then Tom Bombadill and the barrel

922
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 3: whites and explaining the story with Gandalf, and then the

923
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 3: scenes at the ends at like Brie and with Farmer Maggot.

924
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, like they really started acting like they needed to

925
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: land this thing in a hurry, which, as we know

926
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: from Peter Jackson's treatment of the films, that's just not

927
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,959
Speaker 1: how you do Lord of the Rings, right, start acting

928
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: like you're in a hurry, you're just not going to

929
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: be able to tell it. So, yeah, the pace of

930
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:30,919
Speaker 1: the pacing is weird here.

931
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,240
Speaker 3: Well, the other thing. I was going to mention this earlier,

932
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 3: but I guess we got sidetracked. One of the things

933
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 3: about this is clearly that they made a choice to

934
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:43,240
Speaker 3: emphasize scenes that could be shot with people like standing

935
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 3: around or sitting around not moving and discussing things, and

936
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 3: any sequences that would have involved major action or movement

937
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 3: or outdoor sets. Those things they try to skip over

938
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 3: as lightly as they can, and so most of the

939
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 3: stuff that gets cut is the more adventury stuff, you know,

940
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 3: where you know, you don't get really much of anything

941
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 3: about crossing the mountains, going through the mines, fighting the orcs.

942
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,439
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a little bit of fighting the orcs,

943
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 3: but Mostly it's just they reuse some footage they shot,

944
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 3: or maybe not even footage. I think it's just a

945
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 3: series of still images of people in these costumes with

946
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 3: horns on their helmets, and these are the Orcs, and

947
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 3: you see them going ah at the camera, and then

948
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 3: you see the actor playing Aragorn swinging a sword for

949
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 3: a minute, and then the battle's over.

950
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: Now. One thing I applaud it for is that they

951
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: they made the choice to genderflip Legoless's character. Oh so

952
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: Legoless is a female elf for a how do they

953
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: refer to the female elves in the Hobbit prequel movies

954
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: from Peter Jackson women? Else elf women something like that.

955
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: At any rate, we have a female Legoleiss in this,

956
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: and I feel like it was actually a pretty good choice,

957
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: because otherwise you have a very male oriented tail here.

958
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 3: Yes, a long observed about Lord of the Rings. I mean,

959
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 3: this is a very duty story. But yeah, so I

960
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 3: like the idea of making Legalists a woman, but Legalists

961
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 3: and Gimley have basically I don't think either of them

962
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 3: has any lines in this adaptation. I mean, again, they

963
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 3: don't show up until there's like something like twenty or

964
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes left and then they say nothing. They just

965
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 3: you see them standing there. Though.

966
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to point something out that it took

967
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: me a while to realize what I was comparing it to.

968
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 1: But Gandolf in this looks so much like Vincent Price

969
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: in The Witchfinder general. Yeah, it's like a very similar

970
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: hair and facial features, and I mean also his facial feet,

971
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 1: Like he has a very Vincent Price esque knows this.

972
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 3: Actor very good observation. I would not have caught that myself,

973
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 3: but you're so correct.

974
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: And we've already talked about Frodo and what he looks like.

975
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, I bet that actor who plays

976
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 3: frod is great. I'm convinced now that it was just

977
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 3: like he had the wrong type of character in mind,

978
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 3: and that's the problem here.

979
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 1: I feel like casting Hobbits is probably a very difficult task.

980
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: I mean they I think Peter Jackson's productions were able

981
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: to pull it off, but there's so many ways it

982
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: could have gone wrong, you know, if you weren't going

983
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:15,919
Speaker 1: with actors like like I mean, Ian Holm of course

984
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: was terrific, but also the younger Bilbo whose name is

985
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 1: eluding me at the moment, and also the kid playing

986
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: fro Do in the actual Lord of the Rings films

987
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: by Peter Jackson. They're altered, terrific, and they're able to

988
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 1: pull off this character that I think could be mismanaged

989
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: in so many ways.

990
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 3: You mean Elijah Wood, the kid playing fro Do.

991
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, Elijah would. Oh yeah, he's great to say.

992
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 3: Is he a kid? I think he's older than me.

993
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: Well, at the time, he was younger and had a

994
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: very youthful uh comparence, and technically and technically he was

995
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:50,879
Speaker 1: a hobbit though he was what thirty three at the time.

996
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's like, I don't know what for hobbits.

997
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 3: That's like being sixteen, isn't it.

998
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm maybe screwing up my hobbit math here, But

999
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 1: at any rate, he's terrific, and of course he's gone

1000
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 1: on to produce a lot of really cool stuff as well.

1001
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 3: Well. Another thing is that it's not just fro Doo.

1002
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 3: I mean generally, other than Bilbo, the Hobbits in this

1003
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 3: movie are grotesque the whole party. This movie really deemphasizes

1004
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 3: Samwise Gamgee. He has maybe like three lines in it,

1005
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 3: but they did make the choice to give him purple hair.

1006
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 3: He has a purple ponytail, and he has additional eyebrows,

1007
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 3: so he's got his eyebrows, but then he's got big

1008
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 3: eyebrows drawn on on top of his real eyebrows.

1009
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: Is he which one is the one with the giant sideburns?

1010
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 3: I think, well, I think there are multiple ones with

1011
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 3: giant side But this movie is a very mutton choppy movie.

1012
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 3: Like Bilbo has mutton chops that are clearly not human hair.

1013
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 3: They're like some kind of animal fur. They look like

1014
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 3: a mink stole, but they're glued to the sides of

1015
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 3: his face. And several of the Hobbits in the Fellowship

1016
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 3: have mutton chops. Maybe they all do, except Frodo or

1017
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 3: I don't know. At least I think Took does, or

1018
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 3: as they call him in this movie.

1019
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: Pin have we talked about sarmon the White yet we

1020
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:06,359
Speaker 1: have not.

1021
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 3: So one of the things we get in this movie is,

1022
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 3: of course, the sequence where you know it's famously in

1023
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 3: The Lord of the Rings, Gandalf disappears for a while,

1024
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 3: what's going on, and then he meets the He meets

1025
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 3: the characters back when they get to Rivendell, the Land

1026
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 3: of the Elves, and you find out what happened to Gandalf.

1027
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 3: It's that he went to talk to Sarimon the White,

1028
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 3: the great wise Wizard, the chief of his order, and

1029
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 3: Sarruman reveals a great betrayal that Sarmon has concluded that

1030
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 3: it is impossible to stand against the armies of Mordor,

1031
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 3: so you have to join them or else die. And

1032
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 3: Gandalf is like, no, I'm not going to join them

1033
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 3: with you. So Saramon's like, well, I don't like that,

1034
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 3: you know, So it's it's paying time for you, and

1035
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 3: I guess.

1036
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: You're going on the roof.

1037
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, You're going on the roof until you change your mind.

1038
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 3: So Sarimon the White, the greatest of the Wizards, is

1039
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 3: supposed he's supposed to be like the guy you can

1040
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 3: really count on, but he is a betrayer and he

1041
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,919
Speaker 3: join the enemy. And it's one of the great parts

1042
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 3: of the book. It's great in the it's great in

1043
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,399
Speaker 3: the the Peter Jackson movies, of course, with Christopher Lee

1044
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 3: playing Soomon.

1045
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 1: Christopher Lee was always the Even before these films were

1046
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: in any way put together, I was like, Christopher Lee

1047
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: should play Saramon, Like this is the only person to

1048
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: play this role. Yeah, and he's terrific and he in

1049
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: him those films. He looks like so many of these

1050
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 1: classic illustrations of the character. I'm thinking about the Hildebrandt Brothers.

1051
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 1: They did a wonderful version of Soromon that I've absolutely

1052
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: loved for ages.

1053
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 3: In this movie, Saruman looks like he would have been

1054
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 3: Hans Gruber's Hinchman and die Hard.

1055
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like thirty five and is clean shaven and

1056
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 1: has kind of a kind of a manic energy to him,

1057
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: like a cocaine Yeah, like he should be this character

1058
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: should be a drug dealer in a nineties action film,

1059
00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 1: Like he should be about to get his next snapped

1060
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: by Jean Kles That damn bizarre choice.

1061
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's like sweaty, so he's kind of damp and

1062
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 3: he's he's freaking out. He doesn't have that Saruman composure

1063
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 3: where he's like, you know, you will join or die. Instead,

1064
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 3: he's like, oh, give me the ring.

1065
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 1: He's kind of like bora mirror is yeah, yep.

1066
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 3: Now there's another choice that I really took issue with,

1067
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 3: which we've talked many times about how much we love

1068
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 3: the weird music in this but one musical choice that

1069
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 3: was very strange to me is that Tom Bombadil does

1070
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 3: not sing. Instead, Oh yeah, he has theme music that

1071
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 3: plays every time he appears, but he doesn't sing it.

1072
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 3: It sounds like some kind of I was trying to

1073
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 3: think what band it sounded like. It's almost kind of

1074
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 3: like a nineties sound is like very Reverby on the vocals.

1075
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 3: It's got that kind of like rushing sound effect on them.

1076
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 3: It's almost a little bit like nineties U two vocals.

1077
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's weird because Tom Bombadil finally

1078
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: shows up in an adaptation, you expect him to sing,

1079
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: because he sings a lot in the book. It's it's

1080
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 1: like this amount. Yeah, that's like that's what he does,

1081
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: So it is it's an interesting choice that he does

1082
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: not actually sing. It makes me wonder what the reasoning

1083
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: for that was. Was this actor not a singer? Did

1084
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 1: did it get cut for time? I don't know. I

1085
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: mean music is also key to his power. Tom Bombadil's like, hey,

1086
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: if you get into any trouble, you need to sing

1087
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: this song and I'll show up and I'll sing my

1088
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: heart out and defeat whatever is bothering you.

1089
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 3: Essentially does Frodo actually sing the song, though, I think

1090
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 3: he's just in the barrow down. He's like under the

1091
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 3: barrow and he just goes like Tom Bombadil Bombadil, and

1092
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 3: then he shows up and he's like hello.

1093
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean it's still great that Tom Bombadil shows

1094
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: up at all, yes, but but yeah, it is weird

1095
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: that he doesn't sing.

1096
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 3: Man, there's so much that I'm not even remembering at

1097
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 3: this point. But one of the things that I think

1098
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 3: is a very strange choice. Like I said, they really

1099
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 3: they really shorten the adventure part of the story, like

1100
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 3: once the fellows it gets together, that part's just on

1101
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 3: like fast forward to the max, jumping over everything, and

1102
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 3: they completely cut out the death of Gandalf. There's no

1103
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 3: there's no bell Rog. I think they're just they go

1104
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 3: into the minds of Maria for a minute, and we're

1105
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 3: to understand that they're fighting orcs because they show those

1106
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 3: orcs going with their horn helmets and Aragorn's swinging his sword,

1107
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 3: and then they're like leaving the minds and they say like, hey,

1108
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 3: what happened to Gandalf? He must have gotten lost somewhere

1109
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 3: back there. That's it. No Bellrog, no bridge of Kaza

1110
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 3: Doom or wait, no, there is a bridge because you

1111
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 3: see er Gordon like trying to balance on it.

1112
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1113
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 3: Oh and Aragorn is like fourteen by the way.

1114
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he has a big scar on his face. Yeah.

1115
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 1: But but yeah, there's no that Gandalf doesn't doesn't die

1116
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: like that is That's that's an interesting choice as well,

1117
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: because this is one of the most emotional moments in

1118
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: the entire saga. Yeah, really one of the most emotional

1119
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: moments in I would say like like Western fantasy, like

1120
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: modern fantasy literature in its entirety.

1121
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like it's a great storytelling choice because up

1122
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 3: until then everything has been about Gandalf is the person

1123
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 3: who knows what to do. Everybody else is confused and

1124
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 3: they're scared, and Gandalf is always the person who can

1125
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 3: figure out what to do next, and so you always

1126
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 3: look to him. And then he suddenly he's dead, He's gone,

1127
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 3: and what are you supposed to do? Then it's like

1128
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 3: it's so great. It really heightens the tension of the story.

1129
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 3: And I guess he does disappear from this story, but

1130
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 3: there's only like ten minutes left when that happens, and

1131
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 3: they don't even say what happened to him. They're just like, oh,

1132
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 3: I don't know. I guess he got lost back there

1133
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 3: or something.

1134
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 1: He had to take a leak or something. That he's back.

1135
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: That's okay, We're good to go.

1136
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 3: And then immediately they're just in Loath. Laurian and the

1137
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 3: elves are dancing around. There's just people in like wearing

1138
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 3: garlands of flowers and wearing white robes and they're doing ballet.

1139
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 1: This is when I almost fell asleep for the second time.

1140
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: This is a very hypnotic sequence as well.

1141
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then of course we do get the sequence

1142
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 3: with Galadriel being tempted by the ring and passing the test,

1143
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 3: and she does pass the test. She's a very good

1144
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 3: Elf queen. And then basically it's pretty much over. I

1145
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 3: think we very quickly get bora Mer saying again like, hey,

1146
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 3: give me the ring, and Frodo's like no, and then

1147
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 3: he will.

1148
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: Then we also have sorrow and uh, I mean sorry

1149
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:16,479
Speaker 1: saarn himself. Oh at least the eye of sorrow on. Yes, yeah,

1150
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 1: that part shows up very funny and has exactly the

1151
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 1: same energy as all of these uh, these these these

1152
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 1: ring junkies. Because Saarron's just like you're gonna give me

1153
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: that ring. That's basically what he does, like this oozing

1154
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: eye with like purple ooze behind it. Yeah and yeah,

1155
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 1: exact same tone as everyone else who wants to ring.

1156
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 3: But it ends extremely abruptly because Borr is like, give

1157
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 3: me the ring and Frodo's like nah, and then uh

1158
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:42,919
Speaker 3: and then he starts to walk off, and then Sam

1159
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 3: Wise Gamsey shows up with his purple wig and says like, hey,

1160
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 3: I gotta go with you, and Frodo's like nah. And

1161
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 3: then he says he says, well, who's gonna cook your

1162
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 3: food and light your fires for you? And Frodo's like okay,

1163
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 3: and then they're just on horses and then it's over.

1164
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is kind of the riding off into the

1165
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 1: disc and it's kind of like the end of an

1166
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: incredible Hulk TV episode from the old days. Yeah, and

1167
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 1: then I think we hear the theme song again, so.

1168
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 3: I don't know in the end. Obviously, this is a

1169
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 3: you know, beyond micro budget production. I mean it's essentially

1170
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 3: a no budget production that was made you know, made

1171
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 3: on the fly, shot in less than nine hours, according

1172
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 3: to one of the actors, and given what they had

1173
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 3: and also working on source material that was through several

1174
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 3: several different filters of derangement. I got to say, obviously,

1175
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 3: like it's funny what we're looking at on the screen,

1176
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 3: but I respect their work.

1177
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and it's again just knowing they were working

1178
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: with no budget. I feel like they did a pretty

1179
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,919
Speaker 1: good job. And it makes more wonder like what would

1180
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: have happened had had the same energy gone into this

1181
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: film as had gone into previous Soviet fantasy epics. Because

1182
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: we should of course drive home that that there are

1183
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 1: some tremendous Soviet and Russian fantasy epics that have come

1184
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: out in the years since, but certainly in the years

1185
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 1: before this, including the Jack Frost movie Rozoko from nineteen

1186
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: sixty five, but also films like Sampo or The Day

1187
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: of the Earth Froze, the nineteen fifty nine Soviet Finnish

1188
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 1: film that is based on the Kalevaga. Both of those films,

1189
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 1: even though you many of you might be used to

1190
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 1: sort of a decayed copy of the film that given

1191
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: the Mystery Science Theater three thousand treatment, if you find

1192
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 1: restored footage of these motion pictures, it's incredible. These are beautiful,

1193
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: high budget just beautifully rendered films. So I can't help

1194
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: but imagine, like, what would it have been like had

1195
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 1: the energy that went into into Frosty or into the

1196
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: Sampo film, what if they had gone into this into

1197
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 1: the creation of the Fellowship of the Rings.

1198
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would have been so magical. And apparently in

1199
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 3: Russia the interest was there. Like I was reading an

1200
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 3: article for the BBC that included an interview with somebody

1201
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 3: named Irena Nazarova, who they identified as a Russian artist

1202
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 3: who saw Chronatelli on TV when it originally aired in

1203
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 3: ninety one, and they say like, well, wait a minute,

1204
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 3: Like is Tolkien a big thing in Russia anyway? Like

1205
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 3: what you know, would people have been into this? And

1206
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 3: I want to read her response, He's massive. After Jackson

1207
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:31,919
Speaker 3: made his great trilogy Interests soared Back. Russia is full

1208
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 3: of fans, cosplay and everything. A friend of mine was

1209
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 3: out looking for mushrooms in the countryside near Moscow and

1210
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 3: she ran into a band of elves with bows and arrows.

1211
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 3: I know a blacksmith who makes a fairly decent living

1212
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 3: from hammering out swords and helmets, and he told me

1213
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 3: about a gangster who'd ordered gates for his mansion. Quote

1214
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 3: like in Mordor. Oh my god, so some like Russian

1215
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 3: oligarch crime lord is also a lord of the rings

1216
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 3: and has outfitted his datcha to be I don't know,

1217
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 3: the barador or something.

1218
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 1: Oh m hmm, okay.

1219
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:10,439
Speaker 3: Okay, maybe we need to wrap it up there. But Rob,

1220
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 3: I have so enjoyed going on this, uh this, this,

1221
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 3: this hero's journey with you.

1222
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, this has been a lot of fun and uh,

1223
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: you know, a chance just to discuss token adaptations in general,

1224
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 1: but also this, this particular attempt. It's it's pretty it's

1225
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: pretty interesting. So again I advise folks out there who

1226
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: are interested, even if you don't have it in you

1227
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 1: to watch the entire two hours, you should at least

1228
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 1: check out that highlight reel. Though that highlight reel is

1229
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: not going to give you everything.

1230
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, especially some of.

1231
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: The musical qualities we've been talking about.

1232
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:41,840
Speaker 3: If you don't have it in you to watch the

1233
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 3: whole two hours, you just you're weak. You know, you

1234
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 3: don't you don't have you don't have intellectual will power,

1235
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 3: you don't have the courage the heart. Come on, if

1236
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:55,919
Speaker 3: Sam and Frodo can journey across all of Middle Earth.

1237
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 3: You can watch this two hour Weirdo stage production.

1238
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely so uh yeah again, I'll put I'll put embedded

1239
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,959
Speaker 1: versions of these videos up at Samouda music dot com,

1240
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,919
Speaker 1: along with some of the music we were talking about

1241
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: the aquarium music for example, so you can check that

1242
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 1: out as well. All right, well, yeah, we're gonna go

1243
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 1: and close it out then, But if you want to

1244
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: listen to other episodes of Weird House Cinema, it publishes

1245
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 1: every Friday in the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed.

1246
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 1: We're primarily a science and culture podcast. Our core episodes

1247
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 1: come out on Tuesdays and Thursdays. You'll also find an

1248
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: artifact episode on Wednesdays, as well as a listener mail

1249
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 1: episode on Monday. So certainly right in if you have

1250
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 1: thoughts about this particular film, if you have, especially if

1251
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 1: you say watched it on Russian television back in the day,

1252
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 1: or you have you have, I know, we heard after

1253
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 1: we watched Teens in the Universe or Children in the Universe,

1254
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: we heard from at least a couple of listeners who

1255
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 1: who had Russian backgrounds, and we got to learn so

1256
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: much about about the viewing of that film and interpretations

1257
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 1: of that film. I would love to hear what you

1258
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 1: have to say about this one as well.

1259
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer, Seth

1260
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 3: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch

1261
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,120
Speaker 3: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

1262
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 3: to suggest topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1263
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1264
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

1265
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1266
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1267
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.