1
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:04,240
Speaker 1: Mental health has now talked about more than ever, which

2
00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,640
Speaker 1: is awesome. I mean, I don't have to tell you

3
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,080
Speaker 1: that it's a primary focus of on Purpose, but on

4
00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: a day to day basis, many people don't know where

5
00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,600
Speaker 1: to turn or which tools can help. Over the past

6
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,280
Speaker 1: couple of years, I've been working with Calm to make

7
00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,000
Speaker 1: mental wellness accessible and enjoyable, or as I like to say,

8
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,000
Speaker 1: fun and easy. Calm has all sorts of content to

9
00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:28,240
Speaker 1: help you reduce anxiety and stress, build mindful habits, improve sleep,

10
00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 1: and generally feel better in your daily life. So many

11
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,000
Speaker 1: bite size options from the most knowledgeable experts in the world,

12
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,160
Speaker 1: along with renowned meditation teachers. You can also check out

13
00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,080
Speaker 1: my seven minute daily series to help you live more

14
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 1: mindfully each and every day. Right now, listeners of On

15
00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,000
Speaker 1: Purpose get forty percent off a subscription to Calmpremium at

16
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 1: Calm dot com Forward slash j that's Calm dot com

17
00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,280
Speaker 1: Forward slash jay for forty percent off. Calm your Mind,

18
00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,160
Speaker 1: Change your Life?

19
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,960
Speaker 2: Why God put me here on this planet? And how

20
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,119
Speaker 2: can I, in the face of all these things, rise

21
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,560
Speaker 2: up and be there from myself as much as I

22
00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,960
Speaker 2: can so that I am not a victim of any

23
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:13,160
Speaker 2: of this.

24
00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,200
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, I've got some huge news to share with you.

25
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,320
Speaker 1: In the last ninety days, seventy nine point four percent

26
00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,679
Speaker 1: of our audience came from viewers and listeners that are

27
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,440
Speaker 1: not subscribed to this channel. There's research that shows that

28
00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,160
Speaker 1: if you want to create a habit, make it easy

29
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 1: to access. By hitting the subscribe button, you're creating a

30
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,400
Speaker 1: habit of learning how to be happier, healthier, and more healed.

31
00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,720
Speaker 1: This would also mean the absolute world to me and

32
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,600
Speaker 1: help us make better, bigger, brighter content for you and

33
00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:48,520
Speaker 1: the world. Subscribe right now.

34
00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 3: The number one health and wellness podcast.

35
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,240
Speaker 2: Jay Sheetty Jay Shetty, un Holy, Jay Sheet.

36
00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,880
Speaker 1: Lemon. Welcome to On Purpose. Grateful to have you here.

37
00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,440
Speaker 1: I've looked forward to sitting with you for a long

38
00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 1: long time, and so I really appreciate your space and

39
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,919
Speaker 1: your energy and for you being here. And I want

40
00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,360
Speaker 1: to start off by asking you what childhood memory do

41
00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,240
Speaker 1: you have that you feel as defined the person that

42
00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,760
Speaker 1: you are today or most defines the person you are today.

43
00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,800
Speaker 2: There's a few. There was a traumatic one that I

44
00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:24,799
Speaker 2: don't like to talk about that happened when I was

45
00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:30,079
Speaker 2: two years old that was deeply traumatic that certainly shaped

46
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 2: a lot of the trauma of my childhood, a lot

47
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:39,120
Speaker 2: of the shame based parts of my childhood. My first

48
00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,720
Speaker 2: interactions with children are the children when I was in

49
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,280
Speaker 2: sort of preschool, when I was probably five years old,

50
00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,799
Speaker 2: when I was bullied and called the F word and

51
00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,720
Speaker 2: a sissy, and the kids that I acted like a girl.

52
00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,079
Speaker 2: I often say the irony of my life is when

53
00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,680
Speaker 2: I was a child, the kids called me a girl,

54
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,240
Speaker 2: and as an adult people call a man. That I've

55
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,760
Speaker 2: transitioned and accepted my womanhood. That's interesting. So it's interesting

56
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,880
Speaker 2: thinking that like other people told me, I was a

57
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,840
Speaker 2: girl before I sort of fully was able to accept

58
00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,200
Speaker 2: or reckon with it, and it wasn't a good positive thing,

59
00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,359
Speaker 2: you know, right, because I was assigned mail at birth

60
00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,200
Speaker 2: as a transperson, being called a girl with sort of

61
00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,800
Speaker 2: a bad thing in the eyes of the other children.

62
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,800
Speaker 2: So that's an early memory in terms of interacting with

63
00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:32,640
Speaker 2: other kids, and then dancing I am during back in

64
00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,000
Speaker 2: the day. I think, I don't know if there's still

65
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,400
Speaker 2: physical education in schools, but I'm fifty one years old

66
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,160
Speaker 2: and we had pe physical education and during free play

67
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,880
Speaker 2: while the other kids were sort of playing sports. I

68
00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,640
Speaker 2: was off to the side, dancing by myself with music

69
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 2: in my head, and I would sort of have characters

70
00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 2: that I would kind of portray through movement, and I'd

71
00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,680
Speaker 2: be imitating what I saw on television from Solid Gold.

72
00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,480
Speaker 2: For those people who are my age who know solid

73
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,760
Speaker 2: Gold was this show in the eighties, was a countdown

74
00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,440
Speaker 2: show that counted down the top hits of the week,

75
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 2: and they had solid Gold dancers, and there was this

76
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,119
Speaker 2: beautiful black woman named Darcel Wynn who was the lead

77
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,320
Speaker 2: Solid Gold dancer, and she had long hair sort of

78
00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,640
Speaker 2: down to her knees, and she was so sexy and

79
00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,640
Speaker 2: so vivacious, and so I was sort of pretending to

80
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,279
Speaker 2: be Darcel as I danced in pe and free play

81
00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:29,480
Speaker 2: and then church and speaking in church almost every Sunday.

82
00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,960
Speaker 2: My mother reminds me that I would summarize this Sunday

83
00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,279
Speaker 2: school lesson every Sunday, and Children's Day was like the

84
00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,960
Speaker 2: fourth Sunday of every month, and I was always sort

85
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,480
Speaker 2: of getting up and making speeches in church, and that

86
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,320
Speaker 2: even though I'm not a religious person now I'm very spiritual.

87
00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,880
Speaker 2: Church was this performance opportunity. The religious part of it

88
00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,480
Speaker 2: wasn't affirming. It was very shaming, but the performance part

89
00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,720
Speaker 2: of it was very affirming. Being told that I was

90
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:05,040
Speaker 2: a speaker and that I was smart was something that

91
00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,720
Speaker 2: dancing and starting to study dance in third grade and

92
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:13,360
Speaker 2: doing talent shows and then being considered a smart kid

93
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,880
Speaker 2: who spoke well became my identity in terms of how

94
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:24,280
Speaker 2: I saw myself, in addition to the identity that was

95
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,200
Speaker 2: sort of placed on me that was from the other

96
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,720
Speaker 2: kids and from my teachers, the bullied identity, the freak,

97
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,479
Speaker 2: the sissy, the F word, the queer, all those identities

98
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 2: that were stigmatized were sort of placed on me. But

99
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 2: I also won talent shows and was a good speaker.

100
00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,920
Speaker 2: And there was this one moment in seventh grade. I

101
00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 2: know you asked for one childhood member.

102
00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:50,480
Speaker 1: I this is beautiful.

103
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,600
Speaker 2: But there is one moment in seventh grade where I

104
00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:59,640
Speaker 2: ran for vice president of the student council and I

105
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,160
Speaker 2: remember sort of doing the campaign. I made little flyers

106
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:07,479
Speaker 2: and stuff, and like, I was this very by middle school.

107
00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,000
Speaker 2: I was dressing myself with things from the Salvation Army

108
00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,280
Speaker 2: and it was not quite gender non conforming yet, but

109
00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,880
Speaker 2: it was going more in an androgynist direction, and I

110
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:19,800
Speaker 2: was kind of this know it all kid, I was like,

111
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:21,800
Speaker 2: you know, raising my hand. You know, to be the

112
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,360
Speaker 2: first one to answer questions in class is very annoying.

113
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 2: And I was chased home from school every day by

114
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,400
Speaker 2: kids who wanted to beat me up and call it,

115
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,640
Speaker 2: you know, this is c F word bullied because I

116
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,920
Speaker 2: was very fim. But when the year that I ran

117
00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 2: for student council president, we all got to make speeches

118
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,320
Speaker 2: and right after the speeches, the kids voted, and I

119
00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:48,599
Speaker 2: remember the beginning of my speech was quality is my

120
00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,600
Speaker 2: principal and qualified is my attitude. I don't know what

121
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,800
Speaker 2: I say after that, and I just remember the.

122
00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:56,760
Speaker 3: Kids being like.

123
00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:59,920
Speaker 2: And they throwed it for me, and I became vispriad

124
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,200
Speaker 2: than in the student council. So this kid that like

125
00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,479
Speaker 2: no one liked, who they made fun of, there was

126
00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:11,160
Speaker 2: something about me speaking in this moment with this confidence

127
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,560
Speaker 2: and this sense of something I don't know, maybe speaking

128
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 2: in church every Sunday that they voted for me, and

129
00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,920
Speaker 2: that was a really wonderful moment.

130
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,600
Speaker 3: Of screw you to the kids.

131
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,320
Speaker 2: It's like they voted for me, but like I was

132
00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 2: also like this kid that everyone made fun of and

133
00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,640
Speaker 2: didn't like. So there was you know, and looking back,

134
00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,560
Speaker 2: and I've talked to very few people from middle school,

135
00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,360
Speaker 2: but like I think, even though they all sort of

136
00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,840
Speaker 2: made fun of me, there was an acknowledgement that there

137
00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:47,160
Speaker 2: was talent and there was intelligence there. And how wonderful,

138
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:53,120
Speaker 2: as traumatizing as my childhood was to create a sense

139
00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 2: of self it, you know, reading drama of the Gifted Child,

140
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,800
Speaker 2: I understand that, you know, in retrospect, my identity became

141
00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,800
Speaker 2: about accomplishment and not who I was authentically. But how

142
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,280
Speaker 2: wonderful to be a kid who valued education because of

143
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,000
Speaker 2: my mother, who was a teacher, and had this identity

144
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:16,160
Speaker 2: that was attached to accomplishments and intelligence and talent. That's

145
00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,560
Speaker 2: a lovely thing, particularly as I, you know, as a

146
00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 2: woman in the world where so often now now fifty

147
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,040
Speaker 2: one year old woman thinking about aging and who's an

148
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,640
Speaker 2: actress in Hollywood, and so much of being a woman

149
00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:31,720
Speaker 2: is about how we look, and so much of how

150
00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,320
Speaker 2: I grew up was about my talent and intelligence and

151
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:40,520
Speaker 2: not that and that's a beautiful thing. That's a really

152
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,719
Speaker 2: really beautiful thing to have those things be valued and

153
00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,560
Speaker 2: associate it with who you are. And so as I,

154
00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:50,200
Speaker 2: you know, sort of go into the world and do

155
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,040
Speaker 2: a lot of different things, knowing that I'm talented, knowing

156
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,480
Speaker 2: that I'm smart, and that because of all that training

157
00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,520
Speaker 2: in church and doing public speaking competitions and you know,

158
00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,600
Speaker 2: valuing education is still being just a student of so

159
00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,880
Speaker 2: many different things that I can lead with those things,

160
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:16,520
Speaker 2: and that that those are the reasons why I've you know,

161
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,000
Speaker 2: gotten to where I am. I think, you know, on

162
00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,160
Speaker 2: God's time, not my time. I thought it should have happened,

163
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:22,520
Speaker 2: you know, twenty five years ago.

164
00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:23,200
Speaker 1: But.

165
00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 3: It didn't happen till I was forty.

166
00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:32,160
Speaker 2: But did it happened right on time and when there

167
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,960
Speaker 2: was a sense of purpose attached to it and that

168
00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,560
Speaker 2: there was something to say. And so that is my

169
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,440
Speaker 2: another intention of today is to try to say things

170
00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,079
Speaker 2: in a way that people can hear. I've been grappling

171
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,880
Speaker 2: a lot with how sort of anti intellectual our world is.

172
00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,600
Speaker 2: There's so many divides in this culture right now around

173
00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,680
Speaker 2: you know, liberal and conservative and all that stuff, but

174
00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,360
Speaker 2: it is really one of the big ones is people

175
00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,200
Speaker 2: who've gone to college and who haven't and how they vote.

176
00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,400
Speaker 2: You know, I think most non college educated people vote

177
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,680
Speaker 2: for the Republican Party. And then I'm an actress. But

178
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,640
Speaker 2: I talk in a way, you know, I'm an intersectional

179
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,840
Speaker 2: feminist and I you know, read Belle Hooks and I

180
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,880
Speaker 2: just did a podcast episode dedicated to her, and I

181
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,640
Speaker 2: use phrases like imperless, white supremacist, capitalist, patriarchy to evoke

182
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,160
Speaker 2: bell Hooks's work. So I talk in this way that's like,

183
00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,640
Speaker 2: that's not always accessible. So I want to be able

184
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 2: to meet people where they are. But I don't want

185
00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,080
Speaker 2: to dune myself down either. But I'm just aware of

186
00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,760
Speaker 2: the elitism tie to certain kinds of ways of speaking

187
00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 2: and certain kinds of education. But I also am aware

188
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,240
Speaker 2: that language. Sometimes to be exacting with language, we have

189
00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:46,240
Speaker 2: to use words like patriarchy and white supremacy and heteronormativity,

190
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,760
Speaker 2: you know, to really sort of talk about what's going

191
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,120
Speaker 2: on or trauma or resilience. So sometimes to really be

192
00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,800
Speaker 2: precise with language and exacting with language, you might come

193
00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,520
Speaker 2: across as a little bit elitist. And so I grappling

194
00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,839
Speaker 2: with that too, just as someone now who has been

195
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,840
Speaker 2: a working class person until I was like in my

196
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,000
Speaker 2: forties and then now you know, have some class privilege.

197
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,040
Speaker 2: So just grappling with privilege. I'm constantly sort of grappling

198
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:17,679
Speaker 2: and questioning myself and my positionality and trying to not

199
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,199
Speaker 2: be this that of touch Hollywood actress.

200
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,840
Speaker 1: Thank you for connecting the dots for us. I could

201
00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:30,720
Speaker 1: see how the experiences you were having back then you

202
00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,760
Speaker 1: can kind of draw that line, and I could see

203
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,600
Speaker 1: you kind of connecting the dots in your own mind

204
00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,960
Speaker 1: to where you are today. And I love that you

205
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,800
Speaker 1: present your experience as so much more of a paradox

206
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,360
Speaker 1: and a dichotomy as opposed to clarity, because I think

207
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,880
Speaker 1: that clarity comes from the questioning and the curiosity that

208
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,920
Speaker 1: you have about your own experience. Earlier, you used the

209
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,959
Speaker 1: term you said you're learning to reparent. You're in a

210
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,640
Speaker 1: child yes, And you could hear that in the way

211
00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,760
Speaker 1: you were describing the journey so far. What are parts

212
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,000
Speaker 1: of yourself that you think you've spent the most time

213
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 1: reparenting or what does that look like?

214
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,040
Speaker 2: So much of it is about how I framed my story.

215
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:12,080
Speaker 2: I'm a Brene Brown stand slash scholar. And when we

216
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,079
Speaker 2: disown our stories, we're defined by them. When we own

217
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,640
Speaker 2: our stories, we can write a brave new ending. And

218
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 2: so much and actually, interestingly enough, on the podcast, I

219
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,040
Speaker 2: was just watching one of your earlier podcasts when you

220
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,200
Speaker 2: had Oprah on talking about what happened to me and

221
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,720
Speaker 2: so much of the way I for many years, I

222
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,880
Speaker 2: had been in denial about all my childhood trauma. Like

223
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,640
Speaker 2: I was in denial about the bullying and the straight

224
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,600
Speaker 2: up violence I experienced as a child, a non performing child,

225
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 2: and so I needed to for many years to talk

226
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,240
Speaker 2: about that. I needed to reckon with that and just

227
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,040
Speaker 2: acknowledge that it happened and feel the pain of that

228
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,080
Speaker 2: that there was no tools to experience as a child.

229
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 2: And then so I sort of went from that, you know,

230
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,880
Speaker 2: the what happened to me? Well, actually I went I

231
00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,720
Speaker 2: was what's wrong with me? And then I went to

232
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,360
Speaker 2: what happened to me? And then and now I'm in

233
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,520
Speaker 2: its base of like was right with me? You know,

234
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,679
Speaker 2: and what happened that wasn't just traumatic but was affirming,

235
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,199
Speaker 2: and that were resources and the things that sort of

236
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,360
Speaker 2: helped me get through. I've been working with an amazing therapist,

237
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 2: nam Jennifer burn Flyer, who I interviewed on my podcast

238
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,160
Speaker 2: twice in the first season, and we do somatic work

239
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,040
Speaker 2: that is based in the community resiliency model from the

240
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:26,800
Speaker 2: based on the Trauma Research Institute.

241
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 3: Do you know this.

242
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,199
Speaker 1: Work I've heard I'm familiar with it, but not well.

243
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,920
Speaker 2: But the Trauma Research Institute came up with this thing

244
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,120
Speaker 2: called krim Or, the Community Resiliency Model that is sort

245
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,520
Speaker 2: of based in resilience, and it's sematic works. It's all

246
00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,120
Speaker 2: about sensing into your body and there's six tools of that,

247
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,520
Speaker 2: and so we've been I've been working with my therapist

248
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,920
Speaker 2: on sort of refiring and rewiring sort of the way

249
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,199
Speaker 2: doctor jos Spinza talks about it, and creating new neurotransmitters

250
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,680
Speaker 2: in my nervous system and deepening my resilient zone. So

251
00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,720
Speaker 2: there were things in my childhood that got me through

252
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,160
Speaker 2: my childhood. They're dancing and so. Yes, so acknowledge that

253
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,320
Speaker 2: there was abuse and that there was bullying and violence

254
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,880
Speaker 2: in my childhood, but there were also things that got

255
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:16,440
Speaker 2: me through my life, art and dancing and reading and performing,

256
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,080
Speaker 2: and those things continue to get me through, so it

257
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:20,280
Speaker 2: becomes it's a both.

258
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:21,560
Speaker 3: And one of the.

259
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,280
Speaker 2: Tools of krim OR, the Community Resiliency Model, is shift

260
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,840
Speaker 2: and stay, and it's all about sensing into your body

261
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,520
Speaker 2: and shift and stay is about like I would go

262
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,640
Speaker 2: into a therapy session with Jennifer, and she would say,

263
00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,240
Speaker 2: you know, how are you feeling today? And I was like, oh,

264
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,320
Speaker 2: I'm a little anxious. And she'll ask me, where do

265
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,520
Speaker 2: you feel that in your body? And often my anxiety

266
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,320
Speaker 2: sort of happens in my stomach. I'm feeling a little

267
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,480
Speaker 2: bit of that now, I think, just because of being

268
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,280
Speaker 2: in a podcast. And then she Jennifer will invite me,

269
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,000
Speaker 2: you know, is there somewhere in your body where it

270
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 2: feels neutral or positive? And right now it's my ankle,

271
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,600
Speaker 2: and she'll invite me to breathe into that and focus

272
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,040
Speaker 2: my attention instead of where anxious, but to focus my

273
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,640
Speaker 2: attention on where it's neutral and positive. So I'm focusing

274
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,080
Speaker 2: and on my ankle right now, and then we just

275
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,200
Speaker 2: kind of focus the energy there and invariably, if I

276
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,080
Speaker 2: can focus my energy in my body where it's neutral

277
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 2: or positive, sometimes eventually the anxiety will dissipate, maybe not completely,

278
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,680
Speaker 2: but it'll dissipate a little bit. And it's about that's

279
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,320
Speaker 2: really about living in the both and in our bodies,

280
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,840
Speaker 2: and it's a reminder that we become sort of what

281
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,440
Speaker 2: we focus on too, literally in a somatic way, literally

282
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,560
Speaker 2: in our bodies but I think in a sort of

283
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 2: more global sense as well, we become the thing that

284
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,840
Speaker 2: we focus on. So and the tricky thing for me

285
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 2: is in my attempts to do both, and I do

286
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:51,720
Speaker 2: the and without the both, meaning I focus on the resilience,

287
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,000
Speaker 2: I focus on the neutral and the positive, and I

288
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,680
Speaker 2: mean a little bit of denial of the of the challenge,

289
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,040
Speaker 2: of the anxiety, of the difficult thing that's going on

290
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 2: in my body. And so I have to be able

291
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 2: to acknowledge that part too, and and not just be

292
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,440
Speaker 2: in the resilience, because there's a bit of denial there,

293
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,680
Speaker 2: and so I'm not in the full truth of what's

294
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,480
Speaker 2: going on in my body, what's going on with me

295
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 2: in a moment. So being able to like say, the anxiety,

296
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 2: it is here. Maybe it's attached to a story, maybe

297
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,840
Speaker 2: it's not. Sometimes it's just a feeling. Sometimes it's not

298
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,080
Speaker 2: necessarily attached to a story. Often it is or thought.

299
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,920
Speaker 2: And then go to the end, go to that neutral

300
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,520
Speaker 2: or positive place, the resilient place, the thing that brings

301
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 2: me joy, but making sure that I don't skip the

302
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,760
Speaker 2: difficulty that might be going on too then be slipping

303
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 2: into denial a little bit, And in an effort to

304
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 2: just sort of be.

305
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:42,520
Speaker 3: Positive all the time.

306
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's just not real.

307
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,760
Speaker 1: Absolutely, thank you so much for sharing that tool and technique.

308
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,440
Speaker 1: I'm sure everyone's listening is going to try and practice

309
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,240
Speaker 1: that in their own way.

310
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 2: What is amazing last thing I'll say about KRIM or

311
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,160
Speaker 2: the community resilience, it's these There are six tools as

312
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,720
Speaker 2: an app called eye Chill which breaks down the six

313
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,280
Speaker 2: tools and it's and it was due advised by the

314
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,280
Speaker 2: Trauma Research Stassue for people who might be you know,

315
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 2: coming from veterans or police officers, people who are coming

316
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 2: from very traumatic experiences that you can take into your

317
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 2: community and share tools that are very accessible. Doing it

318
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,120
Speaker 2: is not easy, but they're accessible tools shipped and stay

319
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 2: is one of them. Resourcing with another one I mentioned,

320
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,480
Speaker 2: gesturing is another. Tracking is huge. You have to track

321
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:25,800
Speaker 2: what's going on in your body.

322
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:26,840
Speaker 3: Help now.

323
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,239
Speaker 2: So these are skills that are very accessible and that

324
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,400
Speaker 2: people can teach to each other the practice of it.

325
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 2: For me, the biggest piece is slowing myself down to

326
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,399
Speaker 2: actually track what's going on in my body. And we

327
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 2: all know that book the body keeps the score and

328
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,600
Speaker 2: so no matter what is going on, intellectually and all

329
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,439
Speaker 2: the work. You know, I've been in therapy for twenty

330
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,240
Speaker 2: three years now, that it has to land in the body.

331
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,440
Speaker 2: It has to be work, that it has to be somatic.

332
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,119
Speaker 2: It has to be because our body. Eighty percent of

333
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,399
Speaker 2: our information comes from the body to the head and

334
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,600
Speaker 2: twenty percent from the head to the body, right, And

335
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,920
Speaker 2: so no matter how intellectual we are, no matter how

336
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,760
Speaker 2: much we want to talk it through and understand it,

337
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,840
Speaker 2: our bodies have to If there's trauma, if there's stress,

338
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,240
Speaker 2: our bodies have to know it differently. Our bodies have

339
00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:27,560
Speaker 2: to understand what a healthy connection or healthy attachment is.

340
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,960
Speaker 2: I have to know it in my nervous system. There's

341
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,640
Speaker 2: this knowing and then there's like this knowing.

342
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:35,479
Speaker 3: Because of that thing.

343
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,080
Speaker 2: I mean, you've talked about it in your podcast. But

344
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,000
Speaker 2: so much happens in our lives preverbal between the ages

345
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,880
Speaker 2: of one and three, one and five, before we even

346
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 2: have language, so many things will happen to us that

347
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 2: we don't have words for that our nervous systems are

348
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:57,480
Speaker 2: tracking in those moments. And so the work of reparenting,

349
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,240
Speaker 2: the work of resetting the nervous system, of deepening our

350
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,159
Speaker 2: resilient zone. It's about that that somatic, that pre verbal,

351
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,359
Speaker 2: that not even the prefrontal cortex, but that limpic brain,

352
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 2: that that piece that's like that that reprogramming, that fight

353
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,720
Speaker 2: flighter freeze so that we really deepen our resilient sound.

354
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 3: Anyway, I could talk about this.

355
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,200
Speaker 1: No, no, genuinely, it's it's so helpful and so insightful

356
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 1: and I and I know our community is going to

357
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: love this so far. But I want to go back

358
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 1: to your comment. And you mentioned a few times on

359
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 1: how we like to deny certain experiences and uncomfortable things

360
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,400
Speaker 1: and difficult things, and I know that for a fact

361
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,880
Speaker 1: I've done that so much in my life physically as well.

362
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,399
Speaker 1: It's so easy to deny of physical pain thinking it's nothing,

363
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 1: and emotional pain sometimes even easier to do it with.

364
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 1: But why is denial so unhealthy? And what parts of

365
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,919
Speaker 1: yourself do you still find you may deny sometimes.

366
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 2: Deny that is unhealthy because we're not living in the

367
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:04,879
Speaker 2: sh for ourselves. And there's this line I think for Magnolia.

368
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 2: You think you may be done with the past, but

369
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 2: the past isn't done with you. That like, even when

370
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 2: I'm in denial, there's still the stuff is still operating

371
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 2: in my life. Nadine Berg Harris has a beautiful TED

372
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 2: talk where she talks about adverse childhood experiences and there's

373
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 2: this wonderful research about adversity in childhood and how excess

374
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,399
Speaker 2: doses of adversity is the way she sort of puts it,

375
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,479
Speaker 2: in childhood can lead to physical literal like you know,

376
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 2: sort of asthma, diabetes, all these health outcomes in children

377
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,640
Speaker 2: and then later in life, so that when we don't

378
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,719
Speaker 2: deal with psychologically and emotional things, they show up in

379
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,640
Speaker 2: our bodies in unhealthy ways. All these other different things.

380
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 2: And so when we're in denial about a trauma we've

381
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,239
Speaker 2: experienced or something that is difficult for us that is

382
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 2: happening in our bodies, and if we don't acknowledge it

383
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 2: and release it, it has to go. It has to

384
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 2: move through and out of the body. It can be deadly.

385
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,120
Speaker 2: Stress can be deadly. And my therapist likes to talk

386
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 2: about we talk about trauma resilience, but then there's different

387
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 2: kinds of trauma and different levels and distressors. Right, stressors

388
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 2: can like bump us out of there's an idea of

389
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 2: the resilient zone. She sort of likes to encourage us

390
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 2: to imagine like these two lines, and that our resilient

391
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 2: zone sort of goes in waves between these two lines.

392
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 2: And then there's low zone, which is like she likes

393
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 2: to think there's a house, and our resilient zone is

394
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 2: the ground floor. Low zone would be the basement, and

395
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,439
Speaker 2: high zone would be the attic, and high zone is

396
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,640
Speaker 2: when we're in that fight flight or freeze and we're

397
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 2: anxious and we're stressed and we're just like and then

398
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 2: low zone would be this kind of like depressed, I

399
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 2: don't want to get out of bed, maybe I'm suicidal

400
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 2: or I'm just like listless.

401
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 3: And so we want to have deepening.

402
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 2: Our resilience zone is about being able to go into

403
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 2: lows and highs and be in our and have emotions,

404
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 2: but not be bumped into that high space or bumped

405
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 2: into that low zone. And so if we are constantly

406
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 2: in that high zone, and I've been constantly in that

407
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 2: fight flight or freeze, I'd learned that really early that

408
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 2: I didn't feel safe and nowhere we're safe, and so

409
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 2: I was constantly releasing adrenaline cortisol. That constant release of

410
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 2: adrenaline cortisol over forty years we're.

411
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 3: Not hardwired for that.

412
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 2: Biologically, we're supposed to, like, you know, we see the

413
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,959
Speaker 2: bear in the woods, we release the adrenaline cortisol to

414
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 2: fight that bear, to flee that bear, and then we

415
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 2: go back to homeostasis. If we're constantly what if Nadine

416
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,360
Speaker 2: Bergier's is, what if the bear comes home every night?

417
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 2: We're constantly releasing that adrenaline cordisol, and then our we're

418
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 2: just depleted after a while and years of this depletion.

419
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 2: And so I've in my forties, I was like, why

420
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 2: am I so tired?

421
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 3: Why am I so depleted?

422
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 2: It's just all that constant survival, not ever feeling safe,

423
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 2: and so trying to find so much of like deepening

424
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 2: my resilien zone is creating safety. And if you are

425
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 2: a trauma survivor, much of the for trima survivors, we

426
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 2: often take this is from my therapist. We take an

427
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 2: alarm bell and turn it into a dinner bell because

428
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 2: things have been wired in such a way, in a

429
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 2: dysfunctional way, that everything becomes an alarm everything and so

430
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,479
Speaker 2: and so that's so much of our work when we think,

431
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 2: when we think about folks who are I'm triggered by this,

432
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 2: this is triggering for me, and it.

433
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 3: Could very well be.

434
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: But our work individually, if the external thing can be triggering,

435
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 2: but my work individually is like, is this about what's

436
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 2: actually going on? Or is this about my history? When

437
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 2: it's hysterical, it's historical. When it's hysterical, it's historical. When

438
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 2: I remind myself of this, when the verness hysterical, it's

439
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 2: probably not about what's.

440
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 3: Going on in this moment.

441
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 2: Like, I had a moment with my boyfriend a few

442
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 2: months ago and we've been you know, we've been dating

443
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 2: for like three years and it's been lovely and it's

444
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 2: been wonderful. And I have this moment when I went

445
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 2: into this shame spiral doing a conversation we were having,

446
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: just went into this crazy and I was like, it

447
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 2: was the first time with him.

448
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 3: I felt so safe with him. It's the first time

449
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 3: with him.

450
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 2: And I was like, and it just like I was like,

451
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: I felt myself just going into this crazy and I

452
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 2: was talking a lot and I was spiraling, and I

453
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: was just like, babe, let me I need to go

454
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 2: to the bathroom and get myself together. He was like,

455
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 2: what's going And I sat there and I was like, luckily,

456
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: because I've done my shamework. I was like, okay, you're

457
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 2: in a shame spiral. You were in a shame spiral,

458
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: and we can agen it when we can name shame.

459
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 2: I was like, this is not about this incredible man

460
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: who's so amazing to me. This isn't about anything he said.

461
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 2: This is about my own story that I just spun

462
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: myself out with. So it's historical. It's not about this moment.

463
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 2: So this is about some historical stuff, you know. So

464
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 2: I just had I think I was in a bathroom

465
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,239
Speaker 2: like thirty minutes maybe forty minutes, just kind of like

466
00:24:55,320 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 2: talking to myself, breathing and just being and really take

467
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 2: and in the moment, this is not a dangerous moment.

468
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 2: I created something historical, something historical came up for me.

469
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: But this is safe. And the only way I was

470
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: able to do that is like I've had like three

471
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 2: years of safety with this man, So I'm like, this

472
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: man is incredible. So like, you know, maybe early on

473
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 2: i'd be like, this man is not safe. And you know,

474
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 2: when a man doesn't feel safe to me, or when

475
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: people don't feel safe, I'm like, I'm out.

476
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 3: I've learned very very very quickly to get out.

477
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 2: And so I've got become very good at like identifying

478
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: what safe spaces. I'm like, so this is not girl,

479
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: You're just spinning out with something, some historical stuff, some

480
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: childhood stuff, some old stuff.

481
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: Just came up for you.

482
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 2: And so when once I was able to do that

483
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 2: and regulate, then I was able to go out and say, Babe,

484
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 2: when it's your shame spiral, it's not about you, it

485
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 2: is what it is.

486
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 3: And he just like held.

487
00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 2: Me and I cried, and and what's interesting to me

488
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: what I've learned on I'm sure this is an experience

489
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 2: that you have interviewed so many brilliant people. I've had

490
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: so many brilliant people in my podcast. And so I

491
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: think about that moment through a shame lens. Right, there's

492
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 2: this we can talk about a shame spiral. We can

493
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 2: talk about it through a trauma resilience piece around regulating

494
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 2: my nervous system. There's also a ten attachment piece, attachment

495
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: theory piece where there's healthy attachment with him. So there's

496
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: just all these different lenses that I was able to

497
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 2: kind of filter that moment through. That was that kind

498
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: of kept that brought me back to the present and

499
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: brought me into a resilience space where I wasn't spinning

500
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 2: out and it was deep and so like reckoning with

501
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 2: the stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves. It just

502
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: a thought can spin us out, right, Just a thought

503
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 2: can disrupt my nerve a system that's not it's a thought.

504
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: Maybe it's a comment I've seen on the internet. It's

505
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 2: a thought I could have about myself that's like, oh

506
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: you're a piece of shit, Oh you're a horrible person.

507
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: That could just spin me out, And just like becoming

508
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 2: aware of those thoughts and then you know it, is

509
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 2: this thought useful? I can let this go, This isn't

510
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 2: the truth? Can I reality check this thought? Or maybe

511
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 2: just letting go of all thoughts? You know, there's there's

512
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 2: in some of my meditation. I do transcentional meditation too.

513
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's just about trying, trying imperfectly to let go

514
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 2: of all thoughts and just be just be, letting go

515
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 2: of stories, letting go of thoughts, an absence of data.

516
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 2: We create stories as human beings or heartwire for story,

517
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 2: but trying to let go of story, trying to let

518
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: go of thoughts and just be. It is so hard,

519
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 2: and I have those moments when it's just like, you know,

520
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: and I'm like, am I an airhead?

521
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 3: You know, I'm moving an airhead right.

522
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: Now, and just like letting go thoughts and just like ah,

523
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes I think like people, yeah, I don't

524
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 2: want I don't want to be judgmental, but sometimes people

525
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: who are not like intense thinkers, they just kind of

526
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: like chill. Sometimes I like envy those people because they're

527
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: not like thinking about like the sociopolitical implications and then

528
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 2: the sort of therapeutic and somatic implications, and then the

529
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 2: attachment theory implications, and then the intersectional feminists, like there's

530
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 2: all this stuff going on all the time. And then

531
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: I'm an artist and then like, you know, my humanity

532
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 2: and as an artist and like having empathy for the

533
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 2: character and analyzing human behavior, just a lot going on

534
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: in there. And so sometimes it's just I envy people

535
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 2: who just say, it's not a lot going on up there,

536
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: and they can just kind of, you know, yeah, let

537
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: go the thoughts.

538
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: Stressing about being healthy.

539
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: Oh my god, especially stressful, especially as a fifty one

540
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: year old, because it's not just mental and psychological health. Now,

541
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: it's like I'm getting older, and there's the question of mobility,

542
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 2: and I have such a problem consistently working out, but

543
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 2: I want to stay mobile, and I want to stay looking.

544
00:28:58,640 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 3: Lovely, you know.

545
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: And the aging piece being fifty one years old and

546
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: like my mom is seventy just turns seventy three this year,

547
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: and then watching her and thinking about getting older and

548
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: my job, you know, and I feel like, in so

549
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: many ways, my career is just getting started in We're

550
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: Own strike and this just it's scary aging as a

551
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: woman in Hollywood. And I think what's beautiful about being

552
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: trans is that, like you know, the public has been

553
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: very as transphobic as people are.

554
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 3: The transphobia of some people in the.

555
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 2: Public has helped keep me right sized around my appearance

556
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: because sometimes I'm like, oh, Laverne, you look cute, Laverne

557
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: is sexy, you know, Oh you look pretty good for

558
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: fifty one, And then like you know, I'll read a

559
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: comment of like some she looks like a man, you know,

560
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: and luckily I can laugh about that. Luckily I think

561
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 2: it's you know, I think it's ridiculous, and I understand

562
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 2: people are transphobic, but it keeps things in perspective but

563
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: I also would be delusional and not in the truth

564
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: if I didn't acknowledge that I'm not just I've not

565
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 2: just been on multiple magazine covers because I'm smart and talented.

566
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 2: That there is there is a desirability politic that goes

567
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 2: into being an actress on screen in Hollywood and doing

568
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: a lot of the on camera work that I do,

569
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 2: and aging in that environment is scary, as a woman

570
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: in an ageis business in an ageous culture, and the

571
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: connection between misogyny and aging, and then being a black

572
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: woman and a trans woman and so all of that

573
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 2: is like happening too.

574
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: It's so funny. I was thinking about this.

575
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: You know, I haven't done like the botox or the

576
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: fillers or anything to my face, but obviously the trans woman.

577
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: I'm not opposed to surgery, but I'm terrified to do

578
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 2: anything to my face. And there may be a point

579
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: when I need to or need to and I don't.

580
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 2: And it's funny. I'm like comfortable talking about not having

581
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 2: done it now, but I'm like, once I do it,

582
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 2: I probably won't want to talk about it. So there's

583
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: also that in the sort of transparency of that, and

584
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: I don't talk about as a trans woman. I don't

585
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 2: talk about surgery in terms of relationship to me because

586
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: so often that's a way to humanize chance people and

587
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: reduce us to our bodies. But it's just something, you know,

588
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: that I'm grappling with around.

589
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 3: Aging and being a woman.

590
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: And so those are other stories and other you know,

591
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: thoughts that I spend way too much time thinking about.

592
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: Maybe because I'm on strike. We're on strike and I

593
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 2: have a little more time.

594
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 3: I don't know.

595
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: I was going to say that I actually find it

596
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: remarkably comforting to hear someone open up and tell me

597
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: the genuine, real, honest thoughts that they're having, because I

598
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: think all of us are actually having those in our

599
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: own world, in our own universe. The you're an actress

600
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: in Hollywood, or whether you're someone who's dropping your kids

601
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: to school, or whether you're me or whoever you are, like,

602
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: I think all of us have a kind of interesting tapestry.

603
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: You've lived so many chapters of your life. If this

604
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: chapter had a title right now, what would it be called?

605
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 3: Fifty one?

606
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: Fabulous and Anxious as hell?

607
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: That's that sounds like a great It's a fun champing

608
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: to read. I don't know, it's fun to live too.

609
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: I guess it is what it is, and it's it's

610
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: you know.

611
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: I interviewed Glennon Doyle.

612
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: She's so amazing and what I love about her, what

613
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: I love about Brene Brown is that, like we so

614
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: much in the wellness space, we hear about sort of

615
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 2: how people are the sort of the result of the

616
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: struggle and not the struggle. And I agree, I need

617
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: to sort of be with people in the struggle. I

618
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: need to like understand what folks are because that's what

619
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: I can connect with. People who have it all together.

620
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,479
Speaker 2: I don't relate to that. And as much as people

621
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 2: may think I have it all together and I girl,

622
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: I am and a gorless into neutral and this case

623
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: girl like Compared to ten years ago to fifteen years ago,

624
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: Laverne has grown. I've done so much work on myself

625
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: to be even just being able to be in an

626
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: intimate relationship and tolerated and like tolerate the vulnerability and

627
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 2: the uncomfortable things like, There's been so much growth. So yeah,

628
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: I'm so much more evolved than I was ten years ago,

629
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago, certainly twenty years ago. But it doesn't

630
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 2: mean that I'm not still struggling with things that like

631
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: the world. I mean, honestly, just being just being a

632
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 2: trans person in twenty twenty three is.

633
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I could, I could cry.

634
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: And I love being trans, but there's a on my

635
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 2: community legislatively and rhetorically that is having real world consequences.

636
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 3: On people who I know and love.

637
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 2: They are families fleeing states right now, which is insane

638
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 2: to me because of the laws that criminalize parents who

639
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: you know, support their trans kids, could criminalize doctors and

640
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: healthcare professionals, and that's not unrelated to the you know,

641
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 2: people who need to flee stay because of abortion restrictions

642
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: and being a public figure who too, who's trans, who's

643
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: you know? You know. I was in the cover of

644
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: Time magazine nine years ago with with the headline the

645
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 2: transcender tipping Point, and.

646
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 3: There was a sense that there was so.

647
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 2: Much progress being made around transvisibility and trans acceptance. And

648
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: that's certainly speaking of both, and that certainly is happening

649
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 2: and has happened in a lot of ways. But we inevitably,

650
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 2: when there is a social justice movement where people sort

651
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 2: of come forth and there's more acceptance, there's inevitably backlash

652
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 2: and we are like eyebrows deep in the backlash right now.

653
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: On a legislative level, twenty states right now have banned

654
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: gender firming care for young people. This year Loan, over

655
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: five hundred pieces of legislation have been introduced in state

656
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 2: legislatures all over the country, targeting the LGBTQ community at large,

657
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 2: mostly trans people, mostly drag artists.

658
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 3: It's insane, and.

659
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 2: It's supported by our media that is so sort of siloed,

660
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 2: you know, right where people can just like get this

661
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: confirmation bias that's deeply stigmatizes trans people and LGBTQ plus

662
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 2: people in general, and don't hear from real trans people

663
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: and don't get our human stories and our beautiful humanity.

664
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 2: And it's scary. A dear friend of mine, Chase Stradio,

665
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 2: who works through the CLU is, they're fighting all these

666
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: things in the courture right now. They're on Friday, he

667
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 2: was arguing two different appeals for two different states where

668
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: they've banned gender from and care in Tennessee and I

669
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: think Oklahoma. It's just a scary time when the government,

670
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: when the state is targeting your ability, and for years

671
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: they were sort of saying that this is about children

672
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 2: it's about protecting children. And you know, earlier this year,

673
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 2: a state, I think it was Oklahoma, passed a law

674
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 2: that would prevent gender from and care up to the

675
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 2: age of twenty six. My home state of Alabama, I'm

676
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: from obil Alabama banned gender.

677
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 3: From and careup to age of nineteen.

678
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: You know, there's other states that you know, So it's

679
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 2: not it's never really been about the children, right, It's

680
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 2: always been about doing what the Daily Wires Michael Knowles

681
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 2: proclaimed at Sea pack erasing transgenderism from public life. That

682
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 2: has always been the project. And to hear that stated

683
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 2: so emphatically and then seeing it play out on a state,

684
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 2: on various states.

685
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: Is scary.

686
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 3: It's really scary.

687
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 2: And so there's that piece of like, how do we

688
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 2: as trans folks, just like our mental health, how do

689
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 2: we sort of deal with that? And so what it's

690
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 2: been crucial for me as a public figure but also

691
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: just as a person who loves trans people and the

692
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: person who's been just terrified by all of this. It's

693
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: like how to understanding that the narrative about who we

694
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 2: are has been hijacked and there's a deep propagandistic misinformation

695
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 2: campaign that's going on. Around our identities, that it is

696
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: leading to legislation that seeks to erase us from public life.

697
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: But there is a reality of our lives. There's a

698
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 2: reality of our existence. There is a reality of our

699
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 2: beauty and our talent and our anointedness that I'm amazed by.

700
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: I'm so blessed to have a group of trans people

701
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 2: in my life who I marvel at. I was in

702
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: La like in July, and we were doing something with

703
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 2: Hardness Foundation about the relationship between reproductive rights gender firming care.

704
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 2: It's interesting, but not ironic that as access to gender

705
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 2: firming care, bodily autonomy for trans people is being taken away.

706
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 2: Body of autonomy for people can get pregnant is also

707
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 2: being taken away on a state level, on state levels

708
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: all over this country. And then a dear friend of mine, Peppermint,

709
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 2: we were hanging out afterwards and we were talking and

710
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: she was telling me about this situation she was dealing

711
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 2: with a man, and I was she was telling me

712
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 2: about this, and I was looking. I was I had

713
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: watched her at this event that we were at, and

714
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: I was just I was just marveling, and how smart,

715
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: how charismatic, how resilient, how incredible she is as a

716
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 2: human being, and all of the bullshit she was dealing

717
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 2: good from this man. And I was just like, I

718
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: was like, do you know how beautiful you are? Do

719
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 2: you know how amazing and talented and just what a

720
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 2: light you are just because of who you are and

721
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 2: that you're I just am so honored that you're my friend,

722
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 2: and you happen to be trans, and your transness is

723
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: part of why you're such a light, you know. And

724
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 2: I just have trans people in my life who are

725
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: lights like that, who are just epic and beautiful and amazing.

726
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: And then there's this, like these narratives about who we are,

727
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 2: and I just would love for people to get to

728
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 2: know us and get to see what I see when

729
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 2: I see trans people.

730
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 3: And so that's what I have to hold.

731
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 2: On to our humanity, our beautiful humanity, and shout it

732
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 2: from the rooftops, and then surround myself continually surround myself

733
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 2: with the beautiful trans people in my life who I.

734
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 3: Just who are anointed, you know.

735
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 2: I always like to remind people that in indigenous cultures

736
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: all over the world, trans people were considered spiritual creatures

737
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: who are spiritual leaders. In India, the hydra, you know,

738
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 2: pre colonialism were you know, folks wouldn't get married or

739
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 2: have a christening without the presence of a hidra. And

740
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 2: they understood that if they got a blessing, their child

741
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: got a blessing from the hydra, that their child would

742
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 2: be okay, be better. We have two spirit people here

743
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 2: in the native communities here in the United States, the

744
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: mahu and Hawaii and in the Philippines. They're all indigenous

745
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 2: cultures all over the world. They were third and fourth

746
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: gender traditions. So trans people aren't new. Non binary people

747
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 2: aren't new. We've always existed in pre colonial communities, and

748
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: so wellness for me and mental health cannot be divorced

749
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 2: from structures of domination like white supremacy and CIS normativity

750
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: and patriarchy. And you know, colonialism is synonymous with a

751
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 2: gender binary that necessarily erases the natural occurrence of people

752
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 2: who exist outside that binary. And so when we have

753
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 2: conversations about health and well being, we have to understand

754
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 2: that I personally know from my own experience that as

755
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 2: a black trans woman for working class background raised in Mobile, Alabama,

756
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: that I internalized deeply transphobic things about myself that I

757
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 2: had to unlearn deeply racist things about myself and my

758
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 2: community that had to unlearn. So part of my mental

759
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 2: health journey has been unlearning transphobia, my internalized transpobia, in

760
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: learning my internalized white supremacy and anti blackness, so I

761
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 2: can love myself more, so that I can love the

762
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 2: people around me more.

763
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 3: And understanding that we're all raised.

764
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 2: In a culture that teaches that for me, creates so

765
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 2: much empathy for people who might be struggling with that,

766
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 2: who might not understand the extent to which they've internalized

767
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: transphobia or white supremacy, and so I can give them

768
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 2: a lot of grace because I've been there too.

769
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 3: I've been transphobic.

770
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 2: I still have transphobic ideas and thoughts that I have

771
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 2: to unlearn and check myself.

772
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 3: With, and that is part of my mental health.

773
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: I've said on my podcast and I say in life

774
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 2: that they're you know, it's like fifty percent of things

775
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 2: I have fifty percent. I don't know if it's fifty percent.

776
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 2: The other structures are the things that we internalize. Where

777
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: on white Supremacy, Bell hook says, imperiless white supremacist, capitalist patriarchy.

778
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 2: I add to that, cisnormative, heteronormative, imperiless, white supremacist, capitalist patriarchy.

779
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 2: The structures that we sort of exist under, these intersecting

780
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: structures of domination, is the way Belle Hooks would put it.

781
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 2: But then there's the fifty percent of like, what's my

782
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 2: part in it? What is the fifty percent? I'm responsible

783
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: for my life, right, and so I'm more responsible. I'm

784
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 2: able to take more responsibility when I'm educated, when I

785
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 2: have an education for critical consciousness. So in this world

786
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 2: that is anti intellectual, that is where we're defunding schools.

787
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 2: That education becomes so critically important so that we can

788
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 2: like take full responsibility for ourselves and our lives. And

789
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 2: the education is around mental health. That education is around

790
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 2: health in general. It's around these structures, it's around understanding capital.

791
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: Right that there's so many people who are frustrated. You know,

792
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 2: my boyfriend who's he's considerably younger than me, he makes

793
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 2: a wonderful living, can't buy a house right now because

794
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 2: real estate prices are just so insane. And that's not

795
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 2: because he's not working hard. He's working sixty eighty hours

796
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 2: a week and he makes a lovely living. But the

797
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: system is set up in a way, this capitalist system

798
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: where home prices are just like it's out of reach

799
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 2: for so many people, so like, and that can cause

800
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 2: us mental and emotional stress. But if we understand that

801
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 2: there is a system in place that it's keeping a

802
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 2: generation of people from being able to buy their homes,

803
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: that can help give us some perspective and hopefully not

804
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 2: feel like we're not enough, because I think a lot

805
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: of I see this happening to him where it's like

806
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 2: I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do, and I think

807
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 2: we and he happens to be a straight white man,

808
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 2: and so there's all these conversations now about crisis around men,

809
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 2: and there's a you know, I don't know if you

810
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 2: would agree with that, but I think so much of

811
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: that crisis, especially when I see, you know, dating a

812
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: very attractive, you know, dirty blonde, blue eyed, straight white

813
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 2: man that this you know, that the world has told him,

814
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: this is what you know should be available to you

815
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: as a straight white man who's attractive and who works hard,

816
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 2: and then these things are not available because of a

817
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: system in place that it really is designed to keep

818
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 2: you know, people, a lot of people down, whether you're black, white, whatever,

819
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 2: and so I think so much of the cognitive dissonance

820
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: now and we displaced that we say that that feminism

821
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 2: is the is the reason right.

822
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 3: I see if you if you go into the manisphere

823
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 3: on the internet.

824
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: You'll you'll hear a lot of men saying, oh, feminism

825
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 2: is the reason why, or or you know, diversity and

826
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 2: inclusion programs are the reason why when maybe you know,

827
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 2: you know, predatory capitalism and corporations who have a fiduciary

828
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: responsibility to their shareholders and no one else. Maybe that's

829
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 2: why you the promise of what you're supposed to have

830
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: in this country as a straight white man. Maybe it's

831
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: not the fault of immigrants or feminism or diversity and

832
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 2: inclusion programs. Maybe it's this capitalist system that is lied

833
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 2: to you and told you. And so I think having

834
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 2: that critical awareness for me is a part of mental health.

835
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 2: For me, having a critical relationship to the world around

836
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 2: me on a systemic level is part of me having

837
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: a perspective, placing things in perspective and so that like

838
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 2: I'm not it reduces the beating myself up.

839
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 3: It reduces the like.

840
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 2: I should be working harder, I should be doing more,

841
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 2: I'm not enough and you know it doesn't absolve me

842
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 2: of responsibility for my life saying because I think there's

843
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 2: a mentality of saying, oh, racism is this, I'm never

844
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 2: going to get to where I need to go. We

845
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 2: can do that, or we can say racism is this, sexism,

846
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 2: is this misoge new war transfer?

847
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 3: All of these things are true. But I'm here.

848
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 2: But I'm here, and I have an opportunity in this

849
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 2: corrupt system. How can I navigate? How can I negotiate

850
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: within this system and to let my light shine to

851
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: be on purpose? Why am I here? Why has God

852
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 2: put me here on this planet? And how can I,

853
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 2: in the face of all these things, rise up and

854
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 2: be there for myself as much as I can so

855
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 2: that I am not a victim of any of this.

856
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 2: I refuse to be a victim.

857
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:43,720
Speaker 3: That I can.

858
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 2: Say to myself in the face of all of this,

859
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 2: I'm going to proceed in the world with dignity, with

860
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 2: self respect, with love for myself, with love for other people,

861
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: and a deep, deep passion for what I do, and

862
00:46:58,760 --> 00:46:59,879
Speaker 2: a passion for getting better.

863
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 3: And it's gonna be okay.

864
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm genuinely in awe of how someone can internalize

865
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,919
Speaker 1: what's going on around them, and at the same time

866
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: remain independently thoughtful about what that means. It's work.

867
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 2: It's worth to stay separate, to detach from that, to

868
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 2: not become hopeless around it. There have been moments this

869
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 2: year when I have felt deeply hopeless and deeply sort

870
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 2: of unempowered in like how we're going to sort of

871
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: fight this. And when I think it was when the

872
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 2: gender firming I think it was Oklahoma that when they

873
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 2: banned gender firming care up until the age of twenty six,

874
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, we have to change this narrative.

875
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 3: And it just something clicked for me.

876
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 2: And sometimes I have to go away and think and

877
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 2: I have to strategize, and it's not I can't always

878
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 2: just be on TV or be on a on a

879
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 2: you know, picket line or at a protest. Sometimes have

880
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 2: to go and think and strategize. It's like, we have

881
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: to change this narrative, and I cannot have the conversation

882
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 2: about who I am on these terms that have nothing

883
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: to do with me, all of the terms that they're

884
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,760
Speaker 2: set forth that have deeply dehumanized trans people. When senators

885
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 2: are asking Supreme Court candidates about what is a woman,

886
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 2: and they're talking about mutilating children. All that is deeply

887
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 2: dehumanizing of trans people. What those people who do not

888
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 2: want trans people to exist in public life have done

889
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 2: very successfully propagandistically that have led to legislation that take

890
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 2: away the body of the autonomy and the rights of

891
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:46,879
Speaker 2: transpeoplis that they've dehumanized us to such an extent where

892
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 2: people can have conversations about lg some people can have

893
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 2: conversations about LGBTQ plus people without equating us with things

894
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 2: that don't even like to repeat. I don't want to

895
00:48:57,960 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 2: repeat any of those narratives, but I think you know

896
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 2: some of the disparaging to humanizing, very retrograde narratives that

897
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 2: we can trace back to the nineteen seventies, right, what

898
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 2: about the children? All those sorts of things, so understanding

899
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 2: deeply that I will not have my identity be up

900
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 2: for debate, that my access to gender affirming care is

901
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 2: actually no one's business. It is between me and my doctor,

902
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: and that the access even for children is actually not

903
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 2: up for debate if you're not a healthcare professional.

904
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 3: It blows me away.

905
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 2: All of the sort of journalists and all of the

906
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 2: sort of people who feel like it is fine, Oh,

907
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 2: children getting gender affirming care and having access to dien different.

908
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 2: That is up for debate, right, we can debate that

909
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 2: because children go da DA DA DA. When the American

910
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 2: Academy for Pediatrics, when the Indegree Society, when they're you know,

911
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 2: all of these different your very reputable organizations say that

912
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 2: this is the way that we should treat transgender children,

913
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 2: and this is the use of the protocols with parental consent,

914
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, and all these other people say well,

915
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 2: we have to debate this. No, No, it's actually if

916
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: you're not a trans child, the parent of a trans child,

917
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 2: or a healthcare professional, it's actually none of your business.

918
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 2: And I feel the same way about reproductive rights. I

919
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 2: feel the same way. If you're not a person who

920
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 2: can get pregnant in need of an abortion, it's actually

921
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 2: none of your business. And I think that that, for me,

922
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 2: needs to be the conversation. It's deeply empowering for me

923
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,280
Speaker 2: to say that to myself and to say it publicly

924
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 2: that it is actually.

925
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 3: None and it's dehumanizing.

926
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 2: It is deeply dehumanizing for people to sit on televisions

927
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 2: and on podcast debating my access and the children's access

928
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 2: to a care.

929
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 3: I mean, if a child had cancer, we wouldn't be

930
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 3: having debates about what whether this.

931
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 2: I mean, there's side of all sorts of side effects

932
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 2: to chemo therapy, but we would defer to the experts

933
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: on that. Nicole Maynes is a brilliant, beautiful trans woman

934
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 2: who is an actress. She played Dreama on Supergirl. She's

935
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 2: just so incredible, and she transitioned as a child. I

936
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 2: recently interviewed her on my podcast and it was so

937
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,919
Speaker 2: lovely to hear from a child. She's in her early

938
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 2: twenties now, but she transitioned as a child. And so

939
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 2: many of these conversations again that people are having about

940
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 2: trans kids and they're not talking to any of the kids,

941
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 2: and then the kids are saying there was a recent

942
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:40,919
Speaker 2: story The New York Times ran where all this whistleblower,

943
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 2: you know, said that this clinic was doing all these things,

944
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 2: and then the parents, these parents came out and said, well, no,

945
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 2: the clinic wasn't doing this, and that my child was

946
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 2: treated well. And the children are saying all these things,

947
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 2: and the children are saying that we would treat it well,

948
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: and the parents are saying that we would treat it well,

949
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 2: and then they're just going with this other, whole other narrative.

950
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 2: So people aren't even listening to trans people. They're not

951
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 2: listening to the parents are trans people. So they've just

952
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 2: hijacked the narrative and they're not listening to us. And

953
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 2: underneath all that is them not wanting.

954
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 3: Us to exist.

955
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 2: And if we think about it, then if you go

956
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 2: back to the beautiful podcast, you I would oprah, what

957
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 2: happened to you? If you don't, if you're so deeply

958
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 2: invested in stigmatizing trans people and saying that trans people

959
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: are mentally ill, If you don't know somebody trans, if

960
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 2: you don't have a trade, how does it even affect you?

961
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,439
Speaker 2: How in the world does it affect your life?

962
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 3: What happened to you?

963
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 2: And so that's the empathetic piece that I have, that

964
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 2: that people are in these times that we live in,

965
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: people are in so much pain, and I think that's

966
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 2: why we have so many wellness podcasts and things, and

967
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 2: people are so people are in so much pain for

968
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 2: so many reasons, and so many of those things are systemic.

969
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 2: So many of those things are about unhealed childhood trauma,

970
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 2: not having language, words, skills, neighborhoods that have just been

971
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 2: completely divested from poverty, income, inequality, so many structural things,

972
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: so many, you know, interpersonal things, so many, so much

973
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 2: unhealed childhood trauma. It is an inside job when it

974
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 2: comes to my healing, but it is also a structural job.

975
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:25,399
Speaker 2: It is also that we can't just charity our way

976
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 2: out of it, do philanthropy our way out of it.

977
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 2: We have to our governments have to invest in schools

978
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,320
Speaker 2: and communities and mental health in a serious way. And

979
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily have faith in our governments. So then

980
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 2: what do we do then do for ourselves and for

981
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 2: each other? And whenever I have a problem, you know,

982
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 2: I'm less there these days, But when I used to

983
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 2: have problems with other people, it's usually about an insecurity

984
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 2: that I had with myself, and so I had to

985
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 2: take a moment with myself and to self reflect. Media

986
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 2: literacy becomes so crucially important in this moment. You know.

987
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 2: Sometimes I get into arguments with my boy friends specifically

988
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 2: about something, and will I'm like, well, let's check that source,

989
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 2: and then like, let's cross reference this source with this source,

990
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 2: and which one is more reputable? So that we're I'm

991
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 2: constantly checking different information and seeing the source and looking

992
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 2: for the biases, right, So because that's where that's really

993
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 2: where we have to be in this moment. And I

994
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 2: think it's a round wellness too, because there's a lot

995
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 2: of people who are grifting around wellness, right, and there's

996
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 2: trying to sell some product or sell something, and we

997
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 2: have to just always have critical awareness around the things

998
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 2: that we're seeing. That the information we're getting on the internet,

999
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 2: information we're getting from the cable news, from the news

1000
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 2: in general, just a critical awareness around information is crucial,

1001
00:54:55,520 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 2: and critical thinking skills are so important, and teaching people

1002
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: how to triple check sources and get inform, you know,

1003
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 2: try to get fine reputable sources and thinking about like

1004
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 2: how a study can be manipulated. Right, Just having those

1005
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 2: that critical awareness it's just crucially important in this in

1006
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 2: this day and age, because I think we can spin

1007
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 2: ourselves out in a psychological and emotional way when we

1008
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 2: think about the people, you know, I think about those

1009
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,479
Speaker 2: folks who said that they were radicalized around January sixth,

1010
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 2: right through social media propaganda and then found themselves, you know,

1011
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 2: on trial for their lives and admitting that they were

1012
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 2: sort of propagandized and you know, did and their incredible consequences,

1013
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 2: and I think they were probably struggling in their lives.

1014
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 2: You know, when you hear about, you know, young men

1015
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 2: being radicalized into white supremacist groups, so much of that

1016
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 2: is about a loneliness about us trying to find a

1017
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 2: sense of community, right, and so there's always something going

1018
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 2: on psychological and emotionally with people.

1019
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 3: And if we can have.

1020
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 2: That frame for people giving people grace, I mean, I

1021
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 2: think there's you know, I think our actions must have consequences, right,

1022
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 2: So I'm not like forgiving people for terrorist activities or

1023
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 2: anything like that, but I think we can you know,

1024
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 2: I'm responsible for my actions and we all are, so

1025
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 2: you know, if you do unfortunate things because you've been radicalized,

1026
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 2: and then you have to sort of deal with the

1027
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 2: consequences of that. But then for those people who've come

1028
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 2: out on the other side of that, I think their

1029
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 2: stories are very valuable around talking about how they were

1030
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 2: radicalized and maybe we're deradicalized and then began to understand

1031
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 2: what pain they were in and what they were struggling with.

1032
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 2: And everyone is struggling with something and it's like if

1033
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 2: we can, if they can, hopefully we can meet people

1034
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 2: with love and empathy in their struggles to people in

1035
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 2: our lives who might be going down a road, some

1036
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,479
Speaker 2: sort of very radical road, and a lot of people

1037
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 2: are right now. If we can hold them close, maybe

1038
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 2: we may not be able to.

1039
00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 3: We may have to let them go.

1040
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 2: Certain people we have to go up because it's not

1041
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 2: healthy for us. But if we can keep these people

1042
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 2: in our lives with love and empathy and maybe just

1043
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 2: love them through these moments, maybe they won't end up

1044
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 2: in situations that become you know, where they're going to

1045
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 2: prison for, you know, behavior they engaged in.

1046
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: On that point, I want to ask this question because

1047
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: every time I feel what happens with any difficult, uncomfortable

1048
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: conversation is that, again you pointed this out earlier, it's

1049
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: happening in silos. So you have a group of people

1050
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: over here talking about it, but they're talking about it

1051
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: with each other. Then you have a group of people

1052
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 1: here talking about it talking about it with each other.

1053
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 1: If you could sit down not a debate, not an argument,

1054
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: but a genuine discussion, conversation of learning from both sides

1055
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: with someone in the world who is that person that

1056
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: you think you'd want to sit with to have that educated, thoughtful,

1057
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: conscious conversation around the subject matters that you care about.

1058
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 2: I mean, that's why we reach out to Joe Rogan

1059
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 2: because I think, you know, he has had so many.

1060
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: But he's kind of in the middle there right, Like

1061
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: he's kind of trying to talk to me.

1062
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 3: Interesting.

1063
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 2: He's interesting because you know, some people would say he

1064
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 2: is he represents a lot of normy sort of opinions

1065
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 2: on things, and then like there's some things that have

1066
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 2: gotten more sort of radically conservative on his podcast. But

1067
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 2: he's someone I was interested when I was interested in

1068
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 2: going my own to show. It's just like I would

1069
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 2: just love to chat with him. I'm not trying just

1070
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 2: to be go.

1071
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 3: And be a human being.

1072
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 2: I'm just going be Laverne, you know, just go and

1073
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 2: like not necessarily if we want to talk about some

1074
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 2: of these issues. I mean, I'm certainly not an expert

1075
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 2: in sports. That's a big issue with him trans people

1076
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 2: in sports.

1077
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 3: I'm not.

1078
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: I don't play sports.

1079
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 3: I've never you know, not athletic.

1080
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 2: I know a little bit about the studies that have

1081
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 2: been done the very few studies that have been done

1082
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 2: on actual trans people in sports, but he's someone who

1083
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 2: comes to mind because I think it's really just about

1084
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 2: how can.

1085
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 3: Can we be human? Can we be human together?

1086
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 2: And I think that's the first piece that like, so

1087
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:58,439
Speaker 2: much of what has happened has been deeply dehumanizing, where

1088
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 2: they've sort of made trans people into an ideology. I mean,

1089
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 2: when people sort of sort of like transgender ideology, I'm like,

1090
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 2: what exactly is that?

1091
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: And what are some of the concerns on the other side,

1092
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: so to speak, that you empathize with, or that you

1093
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: parts of the narrative where you're like, oh, I understand

1094
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 1: where that's coming from, but that isn't actually what I

1095
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: believe our thoughts are, Like what would you say, is like, oh,

1096
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: I get where that's coming from, But that's actually a

1097
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: misnarrative because I think what ends up happening and I'm

1098
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: looking at it from a trying to look at it

1099
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 1: from an observer point of view, and going, is it

1100
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: that people are actually arguing two completely different things and

1101
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: we're arguing about the wrong things, like we're not even

1102
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: talking about I think.

1103
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 2: The part of it, I mean, I think honestly part

1104
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 2: of the problem is that a lot of the ways

1105
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 2: in which for many years, since oh gosh, since the

1106
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 2: early since the early two thousands, there have been states

1107
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 2: have been attempting to do bathroom bands. I think Phoenix

1108
00:59:58,440 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 2: was one of the first cities, and we were able

1109
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 2: to sort of not have that. You know, protests happened

1110
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 2: and they were not bathroom bands against trans people using

1111
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 2: the bathroom. Famously, in twenty sixteen, HB two in North

1112
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 2: Carolina was the big bathroom bill, but there have been

1113
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 2: other states who've been trying to, you know, ban access

1114
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 2: to bathrooms for trans people. So for years conservatives were

1115
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 2: working to get trans people out of bathrooms. That actually

1116
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 2: didn't really work anywhere. And so after marriage equality became

1117
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 2: the law of the land, conservative groups focused had focus

1118
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 2: groups and they were like they they talked to them

1119
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 2: specifically about different trans issues, and what seemed most salient

1120
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 2: to them were trans women specifically in sports. And so

1121
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 2: then that became the focus and they were like, Okay,

1122
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 2: we can take the place they need a buyant paybook

1123
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 2: from the seventies and focus on children, trans people in

1124
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 2: sports and children. And so then there was a proliferation

1125
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 2: of news stories on Fox News and conservative and conservative media,

1126
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 2: all of the Internet.

1127
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 3: Google it.

1128
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 2: It's just hundreds of stories on Fox News about trans

1129
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 2: people in sports, none in like, you know, more mainstream media,

1130
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 2: like we didn't. Like if you're not watching Fox News

1131
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 2: or conservative media, you didn't really you wouldn't realize.

1132
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 3: That there was an issue with trans people in sports.

1133
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 2: But if you watch Fox News, you would think that,

1134
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 2: like trans people are dominating sports, like that trans women

1135
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 2: are like you know that, So that, I mean, this

1136
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 2: is really for most people, trans women in sports becomes

1137
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 2: the crazy thing that like we can't do. For Joe Rogan,

1138
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 2: it's it's it's the issue, and there's not enough real

1139
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 2: studies on actual trans women in sports. You would need

1140
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 2: to do double blind studies of trans women's performance capacity

1141
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,919
Speaker 2: in different sports. There there's one study that was done

1142
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 2: with trans women stetifically with running, but it was a

1143
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 2: small sample size that looked at their performance pre transition

1144
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 2: in post transition. But then there have been any studies

1145
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 2: on like weightlifting, on swimming, on all that and their

1146
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 2: different skill sets that are required. People make assumptions because

1147
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 2: people don't think they're trans women are women, So there

1148
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 2: make assumptions that if you've gone through puberty that released

1149
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 2: the testosterone that you're going to have a physical advantage.

1150
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 2: In two thousand and two, the International Olympic Committee created

1151
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 2: standards for trans people to compete in two thousand and

1152
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 2: two that had to do with testosterone levels, being on

1153
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 2: hormone replacement therapy for a certain amount of time. And

1154
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 2: since two thousand and two, so that's been that twenty

1155
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 2: one years, We've had one trans Olympian and she like

1156
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 2: she was a weightlifter a few years ago and she

1157
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 2: like failed to qualify, Like she made it the Olympics icition,

1158
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 2: then she was out in the first round. So in

1159
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 2: the twenty one years that trans people have been able

1160
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 2: to compete in the Olympics, for example, trans women are

1161
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 2: not dominating. There are a few trans women who win

1162
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 2: in competitions, and we hear all about those trans women, right,

1163
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 2: and like conservatives know those trans women probably better than

1164
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 2: I would know those trans women. They're like on the

1165
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 2: handful of trans women. And then you look at sports

1166
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 2: bands on trans children. I was a governor, I forget

1167
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 2: I think it was West Virginia who was on television MISSINGBC.

1168
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 2: New rule was like, you know, are there any trans

1169
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 2: girls dominating in your state that you know of, and

1170
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 2: he said no, and he didn't know of any, and

1171
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 2: there weren't any. And there was one trans girl who

1172
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 2: was playing sports that we knew of in I think

1173
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 2: was Utah, and they created a sports band for one person,

1174
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 2: for one trans girl, and so so much of this

1175
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 2: is this anxiety. But what's interesting to me is at

1176
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 2: the same time that there are these sports bands that

1177
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 2: we're going to ban trans girls from sports to keep

1178
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 2: fairness in sports, that they're also banning gender affirming care

1179
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 2: and stigmatizing and creating misinformation around puberty blockers. And the

1180
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 2: what I do know about sports and alleged advantages that

1181
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 2: people might have, or trans people might have, is that

1182
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 2: that advantage happens after puberty, right that pre puberty that

1183
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 2: there's not really because this ustan hasn't been introduced yet,

1184
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 2: that there's no advantage. And so the same people who

1185
01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 2: say that they don't want trans girls competing also want

1186
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 2: to take away the ability for trans girls to be

1187
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 2: able to go through the puberty that is consistent with

1188
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 2: their identity and that would actually not give them an advantage.

1189
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 2: And so many of the kids, the trans kids who

1190
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 2: play sports, are not dominating. They just want to play

1191
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 2: with their friends. They just want to have this communal experience.

1192
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 2: From what I've was from the trans people I talked

1193
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 2: to that there's something I never played sports, but allegedly

1194
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 2: apparently people who played sports, it's a sense of teamwork

1195
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 2: and community. And the young girl in Utah who she

1196
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 2: there was a field hockey team that she the team

1197
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 2: wasn't didn't even exist. She basically like rallied the girls,

1198
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 2: you know, to get the field hockey team together, and

1199
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 2: then like after she had done all this work to

1200
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 2: get the team, she couldn't play on it. And that

1201
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 2: just feels it's really discriminatory. And I think that, like

1202
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 2: there is I think fairness in sports is something that

1203
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 2: we should there are standards in place for that, but

1204
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 2: I don't think it's really about that at the end

1205
01:04:57,320 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 2: of the day. And so I think that like even

1206
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 2: having this long, sort of drawn out conversation about sports, it's.

1207
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 3: Actually not about that.

1208
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 2: It's actually not I don't think it's about fairness in sports.

1209
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 2: I think it is about stigmatizing trans people, is about

1210
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 2: people being deeply uncomfortable. That's almost always where it goes

1211
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 2: that they're talking. It's say it's about sports. They say

1212
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 2: it's about the children, but it's really about a discomfort

1213
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 2: with trans people existing.

1214
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 3: That's at the core of it.

1215
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 2: If we look at empirically at what they're saying, and

1216
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 2: then the public policies that are put in place, so

1217
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 2: people make sports an issue, they make gender firm and

1218
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 2: care an issue for children, But it's ultimately about them

1219
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 2: wanting to erase trans people from public life because we

1220
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 2: make them uncomfortable for some reason.

1221
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 3: Are do you feel me?

1222
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 4: On that?

1223
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 1: Do you feel me?

1224
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 2: Because I think we can parse out all these different

1225
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 2: issues that they say they have a problem with. But

1226
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, when we're talking about

1227
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 2: banning gender firming care for adults in Florida, effectively gender

1228
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 2: firming care for adults is bannedwidth it. They've Medicaid is

1229
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 2: no longer covering gender firming care in Florida for trans people,

1230
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 2: and DeSantis passed a bill that would allow only doctors,

1231
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:23,479
Speaker 2: not nurse practitioners, to administer gender firming care when eighty

1232
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:26,479
Speaker 2: percent of trans people in Florida get their gender firming

1233
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:28,920
Speaker 2: care from nurse practitioners got it. So this is very

1234
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 2: similar to what they're doing with abortion bills, right, So

1235
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 2: that's why it gets tricky to go into having conversations

1236
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 2: about sports and like parsing out and getting distracted about

1237
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 2: that that is actually having the conversation on their terms.

1238
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 2: Having the debate around trans children and gender firming care

1239
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 2: is having the debate on their terms. It is actually

1240
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 2: not your business when it comes in fairness in sports.

1241
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 2: And I think too, because we see a coalition now

1242
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 2: of a women who call themselves feminists who care about

1243
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 2: women's rights, a coalition between them and right wing conservatives

1244
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 2: who want to take away the abortion rights of women

1245
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 2: and people who can get pregnant.

1246
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 3: So they have like coalesced and.

1247
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 2: Are like, you know, in common cause around getting trans

1248
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 2: people out of women's spaces and protecting women's spaces and

1249
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 2: protecting women's sports. And so this is just about transphobia.

1250
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 2: It's about transphobia, and so why is it? And I

1251
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 2: think there's a larger conversation around gender roles. What you know,

1252
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 2: that whole sort of Matt Walsh's question.

1253
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 3: What is a woman?

1254
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 2: You know? And I think ultimately what is a man

1255
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 2: in this moment, in this historical moment right now? Women

1256
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 2: are so beautifully independent, We make our own money, We

1257
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 2: in so many ways we don't need men, and we

1258
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 2: a lot of women have evolved, and a lot of

1259
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 2: men have evolved, but a lot of men haven't, and

1260
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 2: the structure patriarchy has not evolved, and their backlash against

1261
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 2: like women having autonomy at these roles being challenged. Trans

1262
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 2: people are a part of that, the existence of trans people,

1263
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 2: and like defining gender on your own terms and defining

1264
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:19,679
Speaker 2: what it means to be a woman on your own terms.

1265
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 2: Being a woman used to be in anti Bellum United

1266
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:24,919
Speaker 2: States of America.

1267
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 3: Black women weren't women. Black women weren't even human right.

1268
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 2: Womanhood in the United States is a colonial, white supremacist construct.

1269
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:41,240
Speaker 2: It is a patriarchal construct, and that is being dismantled

1270
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 2: as women are taking control of our lives and our abilities.

1271
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 3: To have children or not.

1272
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 2: And just a lot of that patriarchy is just being

1273
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:54,880
Speaker 2: dismantled by the lived experiences of women.

1274
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 3: And so many men don't.

1275
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 2: Know how they fit into that because they haven't done

1276
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:07,080
Speaker 2: the work of interrogating patriarchy and interrogating that model. And

1277
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:10,959
Speaker 2: you've talked so beautifully on your podcast about being vulnerable

1278
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,680
Speaker 2: as a man and what that looks like, and vulnerability

1279
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 2: is a piece of it, and that is my own

1280
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 2: for men dealing with the ways in which they've internalized

1281
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:24,480
Speaker 2: patriarchy and these systems that are not serving them. Patriarchy

1282
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 2: isn't serving most men, especially if you're a man of color,

1283
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 2: especially if you're a working classman, right, Patriarchy is not

1284
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:34,439
Speaker 2: actually really serving you. And I think the frustration of

1285
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 2: a lot of working classmen of all races is that

1286
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 2: patriarchy isn't serving them, and it's supposed to be and

1287
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 2: it's confusing, right, And then women are so empowered now

1288
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 2: and don't necessarily need man, but I still want a man.

1289
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:51,639
Speaker 2: And then trans people are in the middle of all this, right,

1290
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 2: and so then it's like we become a scapegoat. We

1291
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 2: can become a scapegoat for like all of the anxieties.

1292
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 3: That people have that some women have who are not transgender,

1293
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 3: for that some men have.

1294
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 2: We become a scapegoat for all of this anxiety about

1295
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:10,880
Speaker 2: gender roles changing, and these trans people aren't helping. And

1296
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:14,560
Speaker 2: then like there we're usurping women all these narratives that

1297
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:17,599
Speaker 2: actually have nothing to do with trans people. It has

1298
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:20,960
Speaker 2: to do with a certain level of progress, a certain

1299
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 2: level of like these systems not working for people anymore,

1300
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 2: and the uncertainty and the uncomfortability of all of that.

1301
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 2: So much of this is about being able to sit

1302
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 2: with discomfort and uncertainty and not being able to make

1303
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:41,640
Speaker 2: any sense of it. And what makes sense to so

1304
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 2: many people is when someone is having a baby, is

1305
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 2: it a boy.

1306
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:46,639
Speaker 5: Or a girl?

1307
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:49,720
Speaker 2: If I don't eat, if I can't even hold on

1308
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:53,599
Speaker 2: to it's a boy or a girl? And that binary.

1309
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:55,679
Speaker 2: If I can't hold onto that, what can I hold

1310
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 2: on to? And so people desperately need to hold onto

1311
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 2: some sense of certainty, and trans people and our existence

1312
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,879
Speaker 2: does not allow that, And there is a cognitive dissonance,

1313
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 2: and there is an anger because there's nothing. There's so

1314
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 2: little that we can hold onto that that we can

1315
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 2: be certain about in these times. Cannot hold on to something,

1316
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 2: and trans the existence of trans people is another thing

1317
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 2: that we can't hold onto. But we trans people have

1318
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:26,120
Speaker 2: always existed. It's just it's a lie. Intersex people exist biologically.

1319
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:29,480
Speaker 2: All these people who want to talk about biology biological

1320
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 2: sex and that term is a very tricky term, but

1321
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 2: well let's use it for now.

1322
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:36,560
Speaker 3: For expedients. Is not binary.

1323
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 2: Intersect people exist like there's there are more intersex people

1324
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 2: than redheads, right, so that like, even biologically, gender doesn't

1325
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:49,600
Speaker 2: exist on a binary, it's exists on a spectrum. So

1326
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 2: it's so then it's like, why do we sit with

1327
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 2: discomfort and uncertainty and like sit in that and let

1328
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 2: go again, going back to letting go of the story,

1329
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 2: Like the stories that I can tell myself about not

1330
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:08,000
Speaker 2: being enough, those stories are so often tied to I'm

1331
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 2: a woman, I'm supposed to be this way from people

1332
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 2: who identifi as me, they're a man, and I'm suppose

1333
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 2: you're supposed to be this way. I'm white and it's

1334
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 2: supposed to be this way. I'm from this place. Letting

1335
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:24,680
Speaker 2: go those stories, and it's sometimes deeply uncomfortable to let

1336
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 2: go of the story that like I've always been attached to,

1337
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:31,840
Speaker 2: deeply attached to. It's painful, it's painful. And then and

1338
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 2: so what conservatives who don't want trans people to exist

1339
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 2: have done successfully is play it on the fears of

1340
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 2: people not being able to sit with discomfort and uncertainty

1341
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 2: and have used that to attempt to legislate and adjudicate

1342
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:51,640
Speaker 2: trans people out of existence.

1343
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:53,120
Speaker 3: That is what's going on.

1344
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:56,679
Speaker 2: So even having the narrative of the talking to people

1345
01:12:56,720 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 2: from the other side is a false dichotomy because we're

1346
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 2: all in the same But.

1347
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 5: Of course, yeah know I was doing it as a

1348
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 5: fail you and I and I went there a little

1349
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:08,680
Speaker 5: bit with you, but it's like, no, I think it's

1350
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 5: I think we're all in the same boat around its uncertainty,

1351
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:15,560
Speaker 5: around all these questions, and if we can sit with

1352
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:18,000
Speaker 5: that and hopefully sit across.

1353
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 3: From someone like we're doing now and see their humanity.

1354
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 1: Now that's I mean, sitting and listening to you and

1355
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 1: anyone else that I meet, I'm only seeing humanity. And

1356
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 1: that's how at least I was trained in my tradition

1357
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:32,560
Speaker 1: was to only look at someone for their humanity and

1358
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:36,839
Speaker 1: the essence that exists within. And my intention, leven honestly

1359
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,719
Speaker 1: with this is that I feel so educated in lighting

1360
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:43,599
Speaker 1: today and I've learned so much from you, and I genuinely,

1361
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 1: genuinely do hope even though I was doing it as

1362
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 1: a thought exercise, I do hope that And it may

1363
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:53,200
Speaker 1: be one of these, you know, idealistic viewpoints, but I

1364
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 1: think it's needed, Like I wish we could sit down

1365
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 1: with people that we think we have opposing views.

1366
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 2: There's been so many moments throughout my life where I,

1367
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 2: you know, waited at tables, worked in restaurants for nineteen

1368
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:07,960
Speaker 2: years in New York, and encountered so many people from

1369
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:11,560
Speaker 2: different backgrounds. I did not talk about being trans or

1370
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:12,600
Speaker 2: trans politics.

1371
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 3: I was just myself. Yeah, of course, I was just

1372
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 3: myself with these people.

1373
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:20,439
Speaker 2: And it's just been so beautiful that the empirical evidence

1374
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 2: of my life that I just get to be myself

1375
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 2: and people are like, oh, yeah, she happens to be trans,

1376
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,960
Speaker 2: but she's she's cool, she's awesome, And it's not I'm

1377
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 2: not the only one who's cool and awesome.

1378
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 3: Like a lot of trans people are cool and awesome.

1379
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 3: There's some crazy people aren't cool and awesome.

1380
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 2: There are people across every democratic who aren't cool and awesome,

1381
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 2: but a lot of us are. And even if we

1382
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 2: weren't cool and awesome, we're still human, you know, And

1383
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:48,560
Speaker 2: sitting across some people and just chilling, you know, is like,

1384
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 2: it's it's beautiful. I think about all of the sort

1385
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:54,680
Speaker 2: of parents of different men.

1386
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 3: I've dated over the years.

1387
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,840
Speaker 2: I'm fifty one, and so I've met some parents my

1388
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 2: day and I just remember, like twenty years ago. I

1389
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 2: was dating this guy and then we met. I met

1390
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:06,400
Speaker 2: his parents and they knew I was trans, going in like, oh,

1391
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 2: she's so lovely. And then I was another guy's mom

1392
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 2: who I met. This is early two thousands, and I

1393
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 2: met her.

1394
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 3: She loved me, she thought I was great for her son.

1395
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:19,320
Speaker 2: Like three years into relationship, he was in the phone

1396
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 2: with this mom and was like, oh, Laverne is giving

1397
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 2: herself an estrogen shot and.

1398
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 3: She's like, oh my god, what is she pregnant? What's

1399
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 3: going on?

1400
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:27,679
Speaker 2: And she's freaking out, like and he used to starts laughing.

1401
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 3: She's like, she's trans, and we thought she knew, but

1402
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 3: she didn't know. She had met me and loved me,

1403
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:34,400
Speaker 3: and then she freaked out.

1404
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 2: And then she comes to visit. She's from Minneapolis. She

1405
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:39,600
Speaker 2: comes and visits, and then we have dinner together and

1406
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 2: she's like, Laverne is lovely, she's great. I'm so happy

1407
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:46,040
Speaker 2: that she's in your life, you know. And she had

1408
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 2: whatever story she had around me being trans, and then

1409
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:50,479
Speaker 2: we had dinner together and.

1410
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 3: Hung out and was like she's great.

1411
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've just have so many of those experiences

1412
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:57,360
Speaker 2: in my life, and so I part of me is

1413
01:15:57,439 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 2: just like, let's just sit down and have dinner.

1414
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:01,760
Speaker 3: Girl's just chill. It's all good.

1415
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 5: I love it.

1416
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,839
Speaker 1: Levine Cocks. You have been a joy to be around today, honestly,

1417
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 1: and I love how smart, intelligent, intellectual, thoughtful you are

1418
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 1: about the words that you share, the way you present them,

1419
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 1: and you're you're a change maker. And I'm really on

1420
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 1: it to have sat down with you for this time,

1421
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:22,840
Speaker 1: to learn from you, to grow with you, and I

1422
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:25,960
Speaker 1: really hope that we'll continue to have this conversation offline too.

1423
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 1: Me too, I really look forward to be definitely definitely

1424
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:36,560
Speaker 1: that you are very on perpose I try. Thank you

1425
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 1: so much. Thank you, honestly. If you love this episode,

1426
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:44,040
Speaker 1: you will enjoy my conversation with Megan Trainer on breaking

1427
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 1: generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out.

1428
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 4: My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for

1429
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 4: five minutes. It was already tough for me to love

1430
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 4: my body. But after the C section scarf with all

1431
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 4: the stretch marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've

1432
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 4: been hacked. But day three, when I did it, I

1433
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:02,479
Speaker 4: was like, you know what her thigs are cu