Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power COLLI
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with
Speaker 1: Emily Jay. I'm Emily Chang in San Francisco, and this
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour, NATO
Speaker 1: talks talk sending more troops to europe eastern border with
Speaker 1: Russia and warning Puttin against the use of nuclear weapons.
Speaker 1: We will have the latest from President Biden's trip to Brussels,
Speaker 1: sanctions and what it all means for Russian oil. Plus
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Exclusive. Apple working on a hardware subscription for
Speaker 1: the iPhone and other hardware products. Why buy a device
Speaker 1: out right when you can just pay a monthly fee?
Speaker 1: Will dial in our very own Mark German and Uber
Speaker 1: will now list New York's city taxi cabs on its app.
Speaker 1: This an effort to ease a driver's shortage and higher
Speaker 1: fares and get a leg up on rival lift. We'll
Speaker 1: get to all of that in a moment. Continuing now,
Speaker 1: the war on Ukraine has now entered its second month.
Speaker 1: President Biden marking that grim milestone in Brussels, meeting with
Speaker 1: Natal leaders about what can be done to stop Russia's
Speaker 1: unprovoked aggression. The President was asked if Russia should remain
Speaker 1: in the G twenty and this is what he had
Speaker 1: to say. My answer is yes, it depends on the
Speaker 1: um I that was raised today, and I raised the
Speaker 1: possibility if that can't be done, if Indonesia and others
Speaker 1: do not agree, then we should, in my view, asked
Speaker 1: to have both UM Ukraine be able to attend the meetings.
Speaker 1: For more on the president's visit, we are joined now
Speaker 1: by a Bloomberg Washington correspondent, Emory Hordern, who is in Brussels.
Speaker 1: Emory obviously a significant statement there from President Biden. So far,
Speaker 1: what has been the reaction to what he has had
Speaker 1: to say and his meeting with top European leaders. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this was really a main headline coming out of that
Speaker 1: press conference the President gave at NATO following his extraordinary meeting,
Speaker 1: and it's been a slew of diplomacy here in Brussels, Emily.
Speaker 1: The President just wrapped up he had a NATO meeting
Speaker 1: at G seven meeting, and then he went over to
Speaker 1: the European Commission to address European leaders. When he says
Speaker 1: that he doesn't he thinks that Russia should be vetoed
Speaker 1: and disinvited from the G twenty. He said that if
Speaker 1: not every G twenty nation agrees, they would ununanimous support.
Speaker 1: He thinks Ukraine at the very least should be invited
Speaker 1: to make sure they're there for part of these conversations.
Speaker 1: After this, Emily, the President will move on to Poland overnight.
Speaker 1: He'll be tomorrow morning, He'll be traveling there and I'll
Speaker 1: be meeting with his counterpart as well as really seeing
Speaker 1: what is happening in terms of the human toll this
Speaker 1: crisis has taken. This is really going to be a
Speaker 1: little bit more of an emotional day. If today was
Speaker 1: really the diplomatic day, tomorrow is really an emotional day
Speaker 1: and day about humanity because this crisis has caused ten
Speaker 1: million Ukrainians displaced either in their own home or more
Speaker 1: than three million have actually fled to bordering countries, and
Speaker 1: Poland really being the ground zero for that. Now there
Speaker 1: is this question about just who President Biden is going
Speaker 1: to meet uh in the next twenty four hours. He was, um,
Speaker 1: you know, a little circumspect about what was coming next.
Speaker 1: What do we know about who exactly he's going to meet,
Speaker 1: and what the impact of those meetings will be Yeah,
Speaker 1: some details at the moment are not released to the
Speaker 1: press obviously for some security concerns. But the President in
Speaker 1: the morning, he'll still be in Brussels and he'll sit
Speaker 1: down with Ursula vander Lyon and we're also are expecting
Speaker 1: from the United States, and the President signaled this this
Speaker 1: evening is some more details about potentially what the US
Speaker 1: can do in terms of shoring up natural gas supplies
Speaker 1: for Europe, because we know how dependent Europe is on
Speaker 1: Russian natural gas and oil and at this moment that
Speaker 1: is really the continuous lifeblood of the An economy that
Speaker 1: has pretty much been saved in terms of these harsh
Speaker 1: penalties and sanctions. Then when the President goes on to Poland,
Speaker 1: we do know over the weekend he'll be sitting down
Speaker 1: for a bilateral with this Polish counterpart, President Data. There's
Speaker 1: going to be a number of issues to discuss, but
Speaker 1: most top of the priority would really be the humanitarian focus,
Speaker 1: given the fact that Poland is really dealing with an
Speaker 1: influx of refugees and asylum seekers from Ukraine. Emory of
Speaker 1: course traveling with the President, but we're going to be
Speaker 1: following the President's every move. Meantime, new exclusive deals on
Speaker 1: the breach of details on the breach of Octa and
Speaker 1: the group behind it. Bloom Brig has learned that a
Speaker 1: sixteen year old from England is believed to be the
Speaker 1: mastermind behind the attack. Bloom Brig's William Turton was behind
Speaker 1: that scoop, he joins us. Now, so William, just who
Speaker 1: is this sixteen year old teenager who lives with his
Speaker 1: mom and how did he pull this off? Well, you know,
Speaker 1: we're not naming him obviously because he's a miner, but
Speaker 1: he's a very talented hacker. One person I spoke to
Speaker 1: who was responding to him hacking a company said that
Speaker 1: he was so fat and so proficient that at first
Speaker 1: when they were observing the activity, they thought it might
Speaker 1: be automated, like it was a script. But no, it
Speaker 1: was just the sixteen year old kid who actually kind
Speaker 1: of has like a pretty expansive online presence of him
Speaker 1: dabbling and hacking. And you know, now he's probably one
Speaker 1: of the most notorious cyber criminals of all time. You know,
Speaker 1: he's achieved that label really quickly because this group has
Speaker 1: hacked into Microsoft Octa and Video. You know, these huge targets.
Speaker 1: That's been millions and millions of dollars on cybersecurity. I mean,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen anything a cyber crime group like this
Speaker 1: in many years. So now that we know who he is,
Speaker 1: what could the consequences for this kind of attack be?
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's really interesting the laws in the UK,
Speaker 1: especially with miners and these sorts of crimes, are pretty different. Um,
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's there's been actually kind of historically
Speaker 1: a problem of when you have miners who are hacking,
Speaker 1: kind of keeping them off the computer. This is really
Speaker 1: reminiscent of the hack of Twitter that happened last year,
Speaker 1: where it was a lot of miners involved in pulling
Speaker 1: off the hack. Now is different because many of them
Speaker 1: were in the US, and you know, they're very quickly arrested,
Speaker 1: but it's it's difficult really to keep these kids away.
Speaker 1: And what do we know about the actual consequences to
Speaker 1: Octa and the businesses that have been affected. Of course,
Speaker 1: Octa has been very clear Octa itself was not breached,
Speaker 1: but there are these three sixties six other businesses that
Speaker 1: were compromised, right right, Yeah, And in part of our
Speaker 1: story yesterday you might have noticed we reported that the
Speaker 1: hackers used their breach of Octa in order to enable
Speaker 1: further hacks. Now we don't know what the details are,
Speaker 1: but if you're a company like the Octa, that's basically
Speaker 1: the worst case scenario. And so you know, I don't
Speaker 1: think we know exactly what happened. We know what the
Speaker 1: company has said so far that there were a limited
Speaker 1: number of accounts actors. But still, when you're a company
Speaker 1: that offers a service that does identity management, it's the
Speaker 1: last thing that you want to happen, all right. Bloomberg's WILLIAMS.
Speaker 1: Turton will continue to watch your reporting on this. Thank
Speaker 1: you for bringing us that story meantime. It is the
Speaker 1: first alliance of its kind in the United States. Uber
Speaker 1: will list New York City a yellow taxis on its
Speaker 1: app to help combat a driver shortage and rising fairs. Yep,
Speaker 1: you heard that right. More on that next, this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: Uber will list New York's yellow cabs on its app.
Speaker 1: This is the first alliance of its kind in the
Speaker 1: United States. The announcement sending Uber shares jumping Thursday. I
Speaker 1: want to get more on this with Bloombergs Jackie Dabolos,
Speaker 1: who covers Uber for US and this Jackie after years
Speaker 1: of acrimony, no what he thought this would ever happen?
Speaker 1: Why now you know? No one could have seen this coming.
Speaker 1: It's been a contentious decade ever since Uber stepped onto
Speaker 1: the scene in New York. And really what this means
Speaker 1: is it's an acknowledgement by Uber that they can't do
Speaker 1: this alone. They have said that they want to get
Speaker 1: every taxi in the world on their app by and
Speaker 1: it's a really ambitious school. So to be able to
Speaker 1: pull it off in New York is a true sign
Speaker 1: that they are going to tackle this in the US
Speaker 1: head on, and it's a good sign that they might
Speaker 1: get a competitive edge over Lift. So a few things
Speaker 1: at play, but more so you have to think about
Speaker 1: the driver's shortage. They needed a boost to supply, and
Speaker 1: this is certainly going to give them that. What does
Speaker 1: this mean for drivers? Uber is billing it as a
Speaker 1: win for them, is it really And what does it
Speaker 1: mean for fares given gas prices and inflation? More broadly, Well,
Speaker 1: for sure the boost and supply, it's about fourteen thousand
Speaker 1: taxis in New York that are now going to be
Speaker 1: available on the Uber app. Customers can hail arrived just
Speaker 1: they like they normally do, but now it could be
Speaker 1: a cab waiting to pick them up. And so for
Speaker 1: the cab driver, they're going to be paid in the
Speaker 1: same way that other app based drivers in New York
Speaker 1: are paid. They have a minimum wage that's set by
Speaker 1: the city, and this differs from the metered fares that
Speaker 1: they are typically used to. Now. Uber says that this
Speaker 1: rate that they're paid by the city is actually better
Speaker 1: on average than the metered rates. So this could be
Speaker 1: a boost in earnings for New York cities cab drivers,
Speaker 1: but also, you know, just more business. They saw their
Speaker 1: demand for cabs decimated when ride hailing came into town,
Speaker 1: and so I think from one perspective, it's not just
Speaker 1: going to put more people in their cars, but also
Speaker 1: maybe more money in their pockets. All Right, how times
Speaker 1: have changed. Bloombergh JACKI Davilos. We'll see how this works out.
Speaker 1: We're gonna continue this conversation with the CEO of Hulbert himself.
Speaker 1: You can tune into Bloomberg Technology Tuesday for our exclusive
Speaker 1: interview with Dara Cosmash. I'm catching up with him at
Speaker 1: Shop Top, one of the biggest retail conferences in the
Speaker 1: world in Las Vegas. Meantime, shares of ev maker Rivian
Speaker 1: rose to the highest level in three weeks. The company
Speaker 1: has been in the spotlight since it's glitzy November I
Speaker 1: p O, but the stock has tumbled ever since, and
Speaker 1: Rivian's value has fallen from one billion dollars to just
Speaker 1: forty two billion. Bloomberg News spoke with the company's CFO,
Speaker 1: Claire McDonough, who says if the company can wramp up
Speaker 1: production and build capacity, the share price will quote take
Speaker 1: care of itself. With the war on Ukraine still raging
Speaker 1: and inflation here in the US, companies and investors alike
Speaker 1: contending with fall little markets. How long will it last?
Speaker 1: And what is the path forward? Let's talk about it
Speaker 1: all with Kathy Gow, partner at Sapphire Ventures. Kathy, what
Speaker 1: are you telling your company's about how long to plan
Speaker 1: for this kind of market volatility and how to navigate it? Oh, Emily,
Speaker 1: It's so great to be here. First of all, as always,
Speaker 1: what confusing times we live in, right everyone is trying
Speaker 1: to make sense of it all, and I'm super happy
Speaker 1: to be here today to share my perspective as a
Speaker 1: venture investor. Now, I think the word everyone is using today,
Speaker 1: including myself, to describe the current approach the market is uncertain.
Speaker 1: About half of the NASDAC had valuations slashed by fifty
Speaker 1: in a matter of weeks, and uncertainty is really the
Speaker 1: foe of the markets. This turbulence is creating a very
Speaker 1: very confusing fundraising environment for tech entrepreneurs and for investors. Frankly,
Speaker 1: no one knows what's going to happen right But because
Speaker 1: no one has the magic ball, there are certain ways
Speaker 1: that founders can prepare themselves, even though we don't know
Speaker 1: when the other shoe, so to speak, will drop or
Speaker 1: how far it is to drop up. How is this
Speaker 1: impacting valuations? It certainly seems like things have taken a pause,
Speaker 1: if if not some companies maybe having to take a haircut.
Speaker 1: If you're trying to raise money right now, well you
Speaker 1: know what private markets for software companies, and I focus
Speaker 1: on software companies, so other markets might be seeing different
Speaker 1: things have not yet meaningfully corrected. I am hearing some
Speaker 1: anecdotal stories about lower valuations and some reed trades in
Speaker 1: later stage deals, but there's not been a lot of
Speaker 1: discernible pattern yet. Frankly, the early stage also seems to
Speaker 1: be quite insulated at this point in time, and I
Speaker 1: think it's important to also call out that there is
Speaker 1: a lag between public market movements and the private markets,
Speaker 1: and we haven't felt the full impact yet in the
Speaker 1: private markets now. This lag has been seen in prior
Speaker 1: cycles as well, in the dot com crash during the
Speaker 1: Great Recession. This time, there's also just a massive amount
Speaker 1: of dry powder on the sidelines. I think over a
Speaker 1: hundred billion was raised last year by US venture capital
Speaker 1: firms alone. So given the amount of dry powder, do
Speaker 1: you think that we won't necessarily see as dramatic and
Speaker 1: impact on private markets that we would had all that
Speaker 1: money not been raised. It's definitely a counter counter force
Speaker 1: to what's happening in the market. But you know, my
Speaker 1: my prediction is that we will see an impact in
Speaker 1: the private markets first with the late stage, which we're
Speaker 1: kind of seeing already, But usually these things take a quarter,
Speaker 1: two quarters, maybe three quarters to see and will hit
Speaker 1: the late stage companies first, flow into the mid sector,
Speaker 1: and then hit the earliest stage companies last. So what
Speaker 1: do you see it is coming next? If you could
Speaker 1: sort of map out the second half of the year.
Speaker 1: What are you planning for at the end of the day. Um,
Speaker 1: what we do at Sapphire is striving to back the
Speaker 1: most exceptional entrepreneurs and companies of consequence and regardless of
Speaker 1: what's happening in the markets. Following that north star of
Speaker 1: investing in absolutely the best teams and companies I feel
Speaker 1: will cut through the volatility in the longer term. Now,
Speaker 1: what I'm telling my CEOs are there are certain things
Speaker 1: you can do to protect your business in case the
Speaker 1: fundraising markets tighten up for the rest of the year.
Speaker 1: These are things like making sure that you have enough
Speaker 1: cash on your balance sheet right, taking care of your
Speaker 1: current customers. It costs way more to acquire a new
Speaker 1: customer than to retain an existing customer. And also don't
Speaker 1: forget about retaining your employees as well. Kathy cow Sapphire Ventures,
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing your perspective with us. And now
Speaker 1: that big Apple news hearing it here first, Bloomberg has
Speaker 1: learned the iPhone maker is working on a subscription service
Speaker 1: for the I phone and other hardware products, a move
Speaker 1: that could make device ownership similar to paying a monthly
Speaker 1: app feed is according to people with knowledge of the matter,
Speaker 1: I want to bring in bloombergs Mark German who broke
Speaker 1: this story. Mark, How exactly would this work? Yeah, thank
Speaker 1: you for having me. This would be no different, like
Speaker 1: you said, than your monthly ten dollar Apple Music subscription
Speaker 1: or fifteen dollar month Apple one Bundle subscription. Right, you'd
Speaker 1: be paying for the phone on a monthly basis like
Speaker 1: you might on a car least. Now, this is different
Speaker 1: than installment programs and carry your subsidy programs today. What
Speaker 1: Apple and the carriers allow you to do if you
Speaker 1: don't want to buy the phone out right is split
Speaker 1: up the costs, whether that's two or less for an
Speaker 1: sc in such over twelve, eighteen, four or thirty months,
Speaker 1: depending on your carrier. This would be a set fee
Speaker 1: that's not the cost the phone, divided by you know
Speaker 1: how many months they're already year or two years? So?
Speaker 1: And will this apply to not just the iPhone, but iPads, laptops,
Speaker 1: Apple watches? How far does this go? It'll start with
Speaker 1: the iPhone. Eventually it's possible that Apple will also expand
Speaker 1: it expand it to other hardware as well. Part of
Speaker 1: the program is the ability to upgrade to the new
Speaker 1: model annually as they come out. Just like if you
Speaker 1: have an Apple TV Plus subscription or an Apple Music subscription,
Speaker 1: you're constantly getting new features and content as part of
Speaker 1: that monthly fee you pay. And so there's other devices
Speaker 1: that are also on an annual kaid. It's like the
Speaker 1: Apple Watch, like the iPad and the Mac in some
Speaker 1: respects as well. So I do see this expanding over time,
Speaker 1: and I also believe one day this could become the
Speaker 1: preferred method of buying Apple products instead of having to
Speaker 1: pay you know, those prices at the beginning of the purchase.
Speaker 1: So what does that mean for Apple in terms of revenue?
Speaker 1: I mean, do you see this bringing in you know,
Speaker 1: significantly more revenue of people aren't buying the phones outright,
Speaker 1: but more people spring for that option because they don't
Speaker 1: have to. Well, this is going to be just one option, right,
Speaker 1: There's still a lot of people who are going to
Speaker 1: use the installment plans and installment programs from both Apple
Speaker 1: and the carriers. There's a lot of people who are
Speaker 1: still going to the phone out right. This is going
Speaker 1: to be another option at check out when you go
Speaker 1: to the Apple online store to tie the subscription price
Speaker 1: to your Apple I D I think this is going
Speaker 1: to ultimately increase revenue for Apple because instead of just
Speaker 1: getting a one dollar payment once from a consumer, they
Speaker 1: might get per month for several years, right, and they're
Speaker 1: going to be able to sell those phones over many
Speaker 1: years to consumers and add up to maybe some consumers
Speaker 1: paying three or four ARS a month for a group
Speaker 1: of Apple products and services. So I do think this
Speaker 1: is gonna be a positive for Apple, and it's going
Speaker 1: to mean more upgrades, more services purchases, more app downloads.
Speaker 1: So I think overall this is a smart transition that
Speaker 1: you're going to see happening. And they're not the only
Speaker 1: one doing this, right. Google has a program called Pixel
Speaker 1: pass Right, which is a subscription program for a combination
Speaker 1: of their device and their services. Obviously, their devices nowhere
Speaker 1: near as popular as the iPhone, but they're trying it.
Speaker 1: Peloton as well. Peloton is testing a six monthly fee
Speaker 1: for leasing their bikes. Obviously Peloton is not doing as
Speaker 1: well as Apple, but again, these are examples of other
Speaker 1: companies moving in the same direction. When is this transition happening?
Speaker 1: Why can people do this? So they have been working
Speaker 1: on this for a little while now. It was originally
Speaker 1: scheduled to launch sometime this year, at the end of
Speaker 1: this year, so probably between the end of this year
Speaker 1: and sometime next year. And how quickly do you expect
Speaker 1: Apple to ramp something like this up move from say
Speaker 1: an iPhone to other hardware products, you know, over time, right,
Speaker 1: I think it will start out if it works so
Speaker 1: with the iPhone. If they continue to generate more revenue
Speaker 1: on the iPhone and they work without this program, then
Speaker 1: you probably would see this, you know, rapidly expanding. I
Speaker 1: think it will be iPhone focused iPhone first. Given there
Speaker 1: are so many installment and carrier plans, even Apple's own
Speaker 1: iPhone upgrade program, Apple's Apple Card monthly installments program with
Speaker 1: Goldman sacks to the phone. So I think they're just
Speaker 1: continuing to add different purchasing options for the iPhone to
Speaker 1: make it appealing to more and more people. So I
Speaker 1: think it'll be iPhone focus for at least a little while.
Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Mark German scoop Mark, thank you for bringing that
Speaker 1: to us. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily Chang
Speaker 1: in San Francisco. We're still assessing the fallout of employees
Speaker 1: pushing back and walking out on Disney after CEO Bob
Speaker 1: Japeck initially refused to take a position on a controversial
Speaker 1: Florida bill, then changed course. One of my next guests
Speaker 1: says Bob j Peck needs to go, calling him the
Speaker 1: worst Disney leader he can remember, adding that the company
Speaker 1: needs to bring back former CEO Bob Iger. Joining me
Speaker 1: now the man who said that, Ross Gerber, president and
Speaker 1: CEO of Gerber Kawasaki and a Disney investor. I'm also
Speaker 1: joined by Ivan fine Set, chief investment officer of Tiger's
Speaker 1: Financial who has a BY rating and twelve month price
Speaker 1: target of two dollars a share on Disney, which is
Speaker 1: the highest of all analysts tracked by Bloomberg. Gentlemen, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. Ross, I want to
Speaker 1: start with you. Why are you so disappointed in Bob
Speaker 1: Peck so far? Well, first, it started with Starlett Johannesson,
Speaker 1: you know, when he first took over, and the way
Speaker 1: he was handling talent was just horribly done to ultimately
Speaker 1: end up giving her the same amount of money anyways,
Speaker 1: And and when you start ruffling feathers with the most
Speaker 1: talented people in your you know, movie business, that that
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. And then now we've moved on to
Speaker 1: political issues, where Disney has always had a long history
Speaker 1: of liberalism and and sort of educating our society about
Speaker 1: liberalism through movies and shows and animation. Um for so
Speaker 1: long we we expose our children to new ideas through Disney.
Speaker 1: So I found it incredibly poor leadership that an issue
Speaker 1: as simple as the one in Florida was one that
Speaker 1: you know, Cha Peck waffled on. And it's something that's
Speaker 1: crucially important in our society today that we have more
Speaker 1: acceptance of of all people, and Disney stands for that.
Speaker 1: So the fact that this was a difficult issue for
Speaker 1: Chapec to deal with really just makes me doubt his
Speaker 1: ability as a leader. He should just be an operations person.
Speaker 1: And that's what I missed about Bob Iger. He was
Speaker 1: such a class act. He was such a gentleman and
Speaker 1: mensch um and and just always made Disney look good
Speaker 1: no matter how difficult the situation is. And I'm biased
Speaker 1: because I'm a big fan of Bob Iger and I
Speaker 1: miss him, but you know, i'd love to see him back.
Speaker 1: I didn't. What's your reaction to that, given that you're
Speaker 1: clearly bullish, You've got such a high price target here,
Speaker 1: and you must I believe believe Bob J. Peck is
Speaker 1: doing a good job. I do. First of all, he
Speaker 1: became CEO and right as we were going into the
Speaker 1: pandemic lockdown where travel was shut down, movie studios where
Speaker 1: production was shutdown, theaters were shutdown, cruise lines were shutdown,
Speaker 1: and the parks were shut down. And he did a
Speaker 1: great job stewarding the company um saving cash, cutting expenses
Speaker 1: and investing in the expansion and increased content for Disney
Speaker 1: Plus and their directed to consumer streaming services. So he
Speaker 1: has gone through a really difficult time. I agree with
Speaker 1: Ross that Bob Iger was a great CEO, but I
Speaker 1: don't agree that UH in this unfortunate time that Bob J. Peck.
Speaker 1: I think he did a great job. And he said
Speaker 1: in his note to chare all two employees, if he
Speaker 1: took a hard stance either on either side of this position,
Speaker 1: that it would be used as a political weapon. And
Speaker 1: I agree. And Disney is a company that that leads
Speaker 1: UH in a lot of areas, especially in acceptance, but
Speaker 1: they are not a political company and they do sidestep
Speaker 1: controversy whenever possible, So I don't really think he I
Speaker 1: think he acted as best he could in somebody in
Speaker 1: the situation that he's in. But the bigger picture, as
Speaker 1: far as investors, he has so far done a great
Speaker 1: job as the CEO in a very tough time, and
Speaker 1: I think he will continue to do so. As the
Speaker 1: parks you know, open and travel open to area. See
Speaker 1: that to the extent parks have been opened, they've had
Speaker 1: record levels of attendance, pastor record ticket prices, record in
Speaker 1: part spending. So the company is doing well and he
Speaker 1: has grown um Disney's direct to consumer streaming services very well.
Speaker 1: Ivan is taking the stand on this bill though really
Speaker 1: a political issue. I mean, Disney has been about inclusion
Speaker 1: since you know, as far back as I can remember.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a small world, after all, we're taking
Speaker 1: a position on this bill from the beginning really have
Speaker 1: been that political at all, Yes, because it would have
Speaker 1: been whatever stance he took would have been used against him.
Speaker 1: But Ivan, what's wrong with taking a stance against discrimination
Speaker 1: and having people who are for discrimination be against you?
Speaker 1: See this is where I see leadership, Like, let me
Speaker 1: finish Running a park is one thing and leadership is another.
Speaker 1: I agree. If you put him in a room by
Speaker 1: him self. He's done a great job operating Parks or
Speaker 1: Disney Plus. But a CEO's job is to be in
Speaker 1: the public and to represent the values of the business,
Speaker 1: not just operate the business. That's a CEO's job, and
Speaker 1: that's where he was and that's where he should be.
Speaker 1: But when you're talking about leadership and being scared to
Speaker 1: take a position on such a simple thing. It is
Speaker 1: wrong to discriminate against gay people, especially children in school,
Speaker 1: and to make a law to do that, and have
Speaker 1: any confusion over this because you don't want right wingers
Speaker 1: attacking you like this is the problem. People care about
Speaker 1: the moral values of the CEO as much as it
Speaker 1: identifies with that company. And now you've got people on strike,
Speaker 1: and you've got nobody's happy with what he's done. So
Speaker 1: so ros here's a question. Look, Bob J. Peck got
Speaker 1: a lot of pushback and then he changed course. He
Speaker 1: didn't want to this listening tour. Isn't that leadership when
Speaker 1: you can admit that you made a mistake. Yes, I know,
Speaker 1: not if the mistake is stupid, all right. I don't
Speaker 1: believe his stance was stupid, and I do like people
Speaker 1: who can change their opinion based on information, So the
Speaker 1: fact that people change their opinion on things, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's negative. I think it's a positive. Disney has
Speaker 1: been a supporter of the LGBTQ community for years. They
Speaker 1: were one of the first companies to extend benefits to
Speaker 1: same sex partners over twenty five years ago, and they
Speaker 1: are extremely inclusive company that produces extremely inclusive and enlightening content.
Speaker 1: And I think he had given that. It's It's not
Speaker 1: a a simple stance, and it happens to be. I mean,
Speaker 1: they have a tremendous presence in Florida, but Florida has
Speaker 1: been a very, very politically charged state, and unfortunately, I
Speaker 1: think his first reaction of not to take an extreme
Speaker 1: stance because it would have been used against him, and
Speaker 1: it is being used against them now no matter what position,
Speaker 1: And if he takes a a more progressive position toward it,
Speaker 1: he's also being criticized. So you can't criticize him on
Speaker 1: both sides. But as far as so, my job as
Speaker 1: a research analyst is to focus on investment opportunities, and
Speaker 1: as an investment opportunity, I think Disney's brand equity, it's
Speaker 1: industry leadership, the quality of its content that direct to
Speaker 1: consumer streaming services, and the fact that they get really
Speaker 1: a tremendous bang for their investment in contact content dollar
Speaker 1: because not only is it on streaming, it's in theaters,
Speaker 1: it's on Broadway, it's in licensing, it's in driving people
Speaker 1: to the theme parks, to their cruise ships. So they
Speaker 1: really create a lot of value with their content. And
Speaker 1: they are and as I say, in media, content is
Speaker 1: king and Disney is the king of So here's another question.
Speaker 1: Ross Bob Iger has said he's gone. Any thought that
Speaker 1: he might come back to this company is quote unquote ridiculous.
Speaker 1: So if if Bob Iger's not coming back, who who
Speaker 1: is is the right person to lead the company if
Speaker 1: not Bob Jpeck, or maybe we give Bob Jacobeck some
Speaker 1: more time. So Poward Schultz just came back. So you know,
Speaker 1: you never want to say never, because I never would
Speaker 1: have suspected Howard Shultz would be back at Starbucks, which
Speaker 1: I think will be beneficial for spar Bucks. Um, I
Speaker 1: don't know. Iger's a very young person for his age,
Speaker 1: so he certainly has the physical ability to do this,
Speaker 1: and I think he has moved on from Disney. But
Speaker 1: I think the correct pick for CEO of Disney should
Speaker 1: have been Kevin Mayer. It should still be Kevin Mayer.
Speaker 1: Kevin Mayer has gone on to do a wonderful job
Speaker 1: working in many different businesses. Now I've met Kevin, and
Speaker 1: I think he's one of the sharpest people in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: He's super connected, and he has the type of personality
Speaker 1: that could have handled this a lot better than Bob. Now,
Speaker 1: not to say that anything I've been saying is incorrect
Speaker 1: from an investment thesis, I actually own the stock personally
Speaker 1: and for my firm, not i'vean actually doesn't, and I'm
Speaker 1: an activist shareholder. And so what that means is, as
Speaker 1: the owner of the business, I don't like what my
Speaker 1: CEO is doing, and so I'm talking about that. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I would like to have the CEO
Speaker 1: of Disney really represent the values of Disney. Now, the
Speaker 1: fact that he's going on a listening tour is called
Speaker 1: placating people. I don't think his views are any different.
Speaker 1: He's just got to placate people. And that's my problem
Speaker 1: with all this. Oh he's listening and all this, Come on,
Speaker 1: all right, Ian, I'm gonna let you have the last
Speaker 1: word here because obviously Rosh put push back on a
Speaker 1: few things there. Yes, he's he's right about Howard Schultz,
Speaker 1: and I think that it's good to see it Starbucks,
Speaker 1: but I think this is a different situation. However, we
Speaker 1: do own Disney on behalf of clients in accounts that
Speaker 1: we manage. Our firm policy is that analysts and portfolio
Speaker 1: managers cannot have personal positions in it. But I do
Speaker 1: have a buy on the stock, and we do own
Speaker 1: it on behalf of clients, and it's on our focused
Speaker 1: opportunity research list and portfolio. But the disclosure said your
Speaker 1: firm didn't known the stock? Sorry, Uh, what we do?
Speaker 1: I thought I was on it that we did. But um,
Speaker 1: but I think that j Peck it'll be a learning
Speaker 1: experience for him and the company. And I think the
Speaker 1: bigger picture is a company has responsibility to a lot
Speaker 1: of stakeholders, not only shareholders, but employees, vendors, customers, convent
Speaker 1: people who visit the park, and um, you know they
Speaker 1: have a broad base of clients or customers that view
Speaker 1: their content, go to the movies, go on their cruise ships,
Speaker 1: go to the theme park too. So he has a
Speaker 1: big audience, a big group of stakeholders that he really
Speaker 1: has to care for, and I think that overall he's
Speaker 1: done and we'll do a good job. Well. Certainly, Disney
Speaker 1: has a lot of opportunities and challenges ahead of course,
Speaker 1: shape himself. I appreciate both of you joining us and
Speaker 1: coming to play. Ross Gerber Ivan fine Seth will continue
Speaker 1: this debate coming up. Bitcoin rallying, but will it last?
Speaker 1: As the war on Ukraine rages, so does a volatility
Speaker 1: and crypto markets. We'll talk about all that and more
Speaker 1: with Spencer Bogart from Blockchain Capital. That is next. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg time now for our crypto rapport, with Bitcoin
Speaker 1: climbing and more than forty four thousand for the first
Speaker 1: time in almost a month, breaking out of its recent
Speaker 1: narrow trading range. This increased closely mirroring gains among US
Speaker 1: equity indexes. But the cryptocurrency was also boosted by speculation
Speaker 1: that Russia is mulling accepting payments, accepting it for payments,
Speaker 1: and that the operator of the terror blockchain is buying
Speaker 1: the digital token as a reserve. Let's talk about all
Speaker 1: that and more with my next guest, Spencer Bogart from
Speaker 1: blockchain capital spencer, What do you think was driving the
Speaker 1: jump today? Sure, I certainly think that all of those
Speaker 1: headlines are having an impact here. I think there's just
Speaker 1: broadly also a question of what type of heart assets
Speaker 1: to people want to own in an inflationary environment, and
Speaker 1: I think that that backdrop is also driving additional demand
Speaker 1: for bitcoin and another heart assets. And yeah, bitcoin has
Speaker 1: been trading in a fairly narrow range over the last
Speaker 1: few weeks, despite being show such a big part of
Speaker 1: the news, and you know, these global headlines that we're seeing,
Speaker 1: why do you think that is? I think it's part
Speaker 1: of a longer term trajectory of bitcoin just seen reduced
Speaker 1: volatility over to time as its market cap and trading
Speaker 1: volume and market infrastructure matures. Um. So, you know, I
Speaker 1: think that that recently there's been some debate about what
Speaker 1: the current market backdrop of you know, succored growth, increased
Speaker 1: demand for horrid assets means coupled with the world of
Speaker 1: rising interest rates where the price of money or the
Speaker 1: cost of capital is increasing and maybe pulling out from
Speaker 1: some of the more volatile segments of the market. So
Speaker 1: looking at short term moves, what about the long term
Speaker 1: what happens to bitcoin? What is bitcoin? What does the
Speaker 1: market look like five years out? We took we talked
Speaker 1: to Mike novograts about that galaxy digital tike a coal
Speaker 1: glisten to what he has to say. The whole year.
Speaker 1: I thought we'd be a thirty thousand fifty thousand range
Speaker 1: in bitcoin risk to the upside, not the downside. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think you know, five years out, if bitcoin
Speaker 1: is not at five thousand, I'm wrong. On the adoption cycle,
Speaker 1: Uh right, we see an adoption cycle that accelerates. Bitcoin
Speaker 1: grew so much faster last year, crypto grew than the
Speaker 1: Internet did its best years in the nineties. Spencer, is
Speaker 1: it at five thousand dollars and five years exactly? I'm
Speaker 1: not really sure. And look, Novo and I might agree
Speaker 1: on many different points, but um, I agree with them here.
Speaker 1: I think that people overthink bitcoin and crypto as a
Speaker 1: whole um quite often. I mean, realistically, I think the
Speaker 1: easiest thing to do here, to do well is to
Speaker 1: have a long term time horizon. You know what's going
Speaker 1: to happen in any particular day, week, month, or even year.
Speaker 1: UM is extraordinarily uncertain UM, and a lot of people
Speaker 1: I think preferred to do themselves brain damage trying to
Speaker 1: anticipate those market moves, when I think the easier solution
Speaker 1: here is to have a small percentage of your portfolio
Speaker 1: and orient towards the long term, and that could be
Speaker 1: just bitcoin or could be a basket of crypto assets.
Speaker 1: What's your take on President Biden's executive order and the
Speaker 1: role that crypto is playing in the war on Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Do you think we are looking at a turning point
Speaker 1: in history for this cryptocurrency and cryptocurrency in general. Potentially,
Speaker 1: I certainly think the crypto is a component of this discussion.
Speaker 1: Right think that what's been made very clear, not just
Speaker 1: with the war in Ukraine, but I think across global
Speaker 1: events over the past couple of years has really become
Speaker 1: evident that money and financial services have become weaponized. And
Speaker 1: sometimes that weaponization is used for things that UM the
Speaker 1: would probably have broad support um and other times there's opposition.
Speaker 1: But regardless, there is demand for a neutral a political
Speaker 1: money and infrastructure, and that's what bitcoin and public block
Speaker 1: gains represent. But there's also a concern that cryptocurrency and
Speaker 1: digital assets could be weaponized, for example, that Russian oligarchs
Speaker 1: could use it to circumvent sanctions. Does that concern you?
Speaker 1: It does not concern me. Most of the the U S. Governments,
Speaker 1: and for an experts on these agree that there is
Speaker 1: no material portion of money laundering or sanctions evasion that
Speaker 1: occurs via cryptoto um so I don't think it's a
Speaker 1: material issue. And clearly the vast majorities it occurs in
Speaker 1: hard assets. It's like gold or in paper U S. Dollars. Alright, Spencer, folk,
Speaker 1: are always good to have you here. Thank you for
Speaker 1: giving us a long term view blockchain capital, getting back
Speaker 1: to travel, more and more people looking to get away,
Speaker 1: and who better to talk about that and more than
Speaker 1: the CFO of Away herself, Katherine dun Levy, who joins
Speaker 1: us now, Catherine, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: So obviously there's a lot of conflicting things happening in
Speaker 1: the world right now. In some places, it seems like
Speaker 1: the pandemic is nearing an end. In China, for example,
Speaker 1: we're seeing a spike in infections. In the United States,
Speaker 1: you're seeing businesses reopen and this effort to try to
Speaker 1: live with the virus no matter how badly it comes back.
Speaker 1: How is this all impacting travel in the months and
Speaker 1: year ahead. While travel is seeing a really terrific recovery.
Speaker 1: You can see it in t s A throutput numbers
Speaker 1: that are almost back to pre pandemic levels. AM Track
Speaker 1: four million more passengers of books this year than last year,
Speaker 1: and even road trips. More road trips are being taken
Speaker 1: these days. So people are just wanting to get out.
Speaker 1: And I think it's important to note Emily that the
Speaker 1: definition of travel has really changed post pandemic. Travel can
Speaker 1: still be a trip across the country or across the world, perhaps,
Speaker 1: but it can just as easily be a trip or
Speaker 1: a hike to Upstate New York, for example, walk around
Speaker 1: the block, or even just going to the gym. People
Speaker 1: are getting out of their house and with a way,
Speaker 1: are making the products that are inspiring all those journeys.
Speaker 1: Is what's happening in China a concern to you, though,
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it's a massive country. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a strict they're more restrictive lockdown measures. You know, what
Speaker 1: are you taking away from that? Well? I think that again,
Speaker 1: people view travel as a critical part of their self
Speaker 1: care routine, and so they're going to find a way
Speaker 1: to travel. It will just be different. They're gonna find
Speaker 1: the ways to travel that are safe for them. So no,
Speaker 1: it's not concerned me. How has this all impacted a
Speaker 1: ways business? I know you've launched some new products over
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, but you know, obviously you
Speaker 1: still need a suitcase whether you're going to driving to
Speaker 1: a national park or flying across the country. Right so away,
Speaker 1: we have a lot of a lot of momentum. Every
Speaker 1: quarter and month of last year we saw an increase
Speaker 1: in demand. In fact, in the fourth quarter of demand
Speaker 1: exceeded pre pandemic levels. And we just closed the books
Speaker 1: of February and I'm happy to tell you that our
Speaker 1: revenue was up over compared to prepidemic levels. How is
Speaker 1: a way adapting to the pandemic or what have you
Speaker 1: learned from the last two years about maybe how to
Speaker 1: be more nimble and next two years? Well, you know,
Speaker 1: we just kept going during the pandemic. As you mentioned,
Speaker 1: we launched new products of pet Carrier, we launched a
Speaker 1: new store in Seattle, and we took the time to
Speaker 1: write a long range plan that positions us for future
Speaker 1: growth no matter what happens. And so we have put
Speaker 1: in place great supply chain strategies that allow us to
Speaker 1: build inventory and have it close to the consumer so
Speaker 1: that no matter what happens, we will be able to
Speaker 1: meet consumer demand. And that's exactly why our results are
Speaker 1: so strong. And what about the rise in inflation and
Speaker 1: gas prices and how that's going to hit consumer pocketbooks?
Speaker 1: This travel going to be the first thing to go
Speaker 1: or no, because people haven't been able to do it
Speaker 1: for so long. Yeah, it's a good question, and we've
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time talking to our consumers about that,
Speaker 1: and what they're telling us is that again it's a
Speaker 1: part of their self care routine and it has moved
Speaker 1: up in their share of wallet and fort of people
Speaker 1: expect to spend more even with the current economic and
Speaker 1: unknown conditions for are spending more than they did um
Speaker 1: before the pandemic on travel. All right, well, certainly going
Speaker 1: to be an interesting set of months and year ahead.
Speaker 1: Katherine Dunlevy, CFO of AWAY, thanks so much for joining
Speaker 1: us to share your view and wants to come And
Speaker 1: that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. You
Speaker 1: can join us tomorrow. We'll be joined by A. A. Kantorovich,
Speaker 1: head of Institutional Coverage and falcon X to talk about
Speaker 1: all things crypto and much more. And don't forget to
Speaker 1: check out our new podcast. You'll find it on the terminal,
Speaker 1: of course, and online. You can find it at Apple, Spotify,
Speaker 1: I Heart, and basically wherever you get your podcasts of
Speaker 1: Emily Chang. This is Bloomberg