1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: During most of the Tago scandal, the other two members 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: of the group, DJ two Cuts and myth Regin had 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,079 Speaker 1: been away serving the mandatory military service. This meant that 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: Epic High was more or less on hiatus. It also 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: meant that Tableau was left to deal with everything on 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: his own. So in November, he released a solo album, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: Fevers in Double Cone, San Maybe then that was my 8 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: first and last. I never released another solo album because 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: um art's not worth that much suffering. I will do 10 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: a song here and there, maybe, But I enjoyed just 11 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: doing music with my group because like, I don't want 12 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: music to be that kind of experience for me again. 13 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: Music critics were praising the album. It was raw, it 14 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: was unfiltered. It was a little like reading from Tablow's journal, 15 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: and you could tell through the music that he was 16 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: going through something terrible. My dad had always said that 17 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: he like, he was happy when I came back with 18 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,559 Speaker 1: my solo album and I was starting to make music again, 19 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: but he said, like, why did you make such sad songs? 20 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: And that kind of stuck with me. So there's sort 21 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: of an aside here. In English, Tableau's album is called 22 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: Fever's End, but The Korean title is yell good, which 23 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: literally translates out to fever flowers. That doesn't really make 24 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: any sense in English, but it's a phrase the Korean 25 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: people use for the spots in your skin that show 26 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: up when your fever is broken and it's at its 27 00:01:55,760 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: absolute worst, and in a sort of poetic sense, it's 28 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: like a sign that things can only get better from there. 29 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: And that was the kind of hope that Tableau's dad 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: had for him, that everything he was feeling now was 31 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: a sign that the worst was behind him, that he 32 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: should move on from Tanjanio and be happy. But in 33 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: a matter of months, the man who told him that 34 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: his father suddenly passed away. What was the funeral like? 35 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: Child going often Jeeneen myth Regin the other rapper and 36 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: epic high I wouldn't even chere. M m Mithra said 37 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: that he had never gone to a funeral of a 38 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: close friend before. He used to see Tablow's father a lot, 39 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: and he wanted to comfort Tableau, but he didn't really 40 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: know how. This was also the first time in a 41 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: long time that all three members of the group we're 42 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: in one room together. What was he like when you 43 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: got there? Oh? Say Song him, didn't go touch it 44 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: on your jaw. Two Cuts, the DJ of the group, 45 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: topped up hill. I'm catching motan done hung you know. 46 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: Dot two Cut said that he was mad at himself. 47 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: Epic High had always been there for each other, but 48 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: his being away in the military meant that he couldn't, 49 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: and he felt like that had put a burden on Tableau. 50 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: And this is real. I've seen footage of the funeral. 51 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: Mithra and two cuts or buy Tableau's side. They helped 52 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: carry the casket. Tableau's wife and his mom are also there, 53 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: and everyone looks incredibly sad, But the way Tableau looked 54 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: was different. People had seen Tableau sad before he cried 55 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: in the documentary when he went to Stanford. It was 56 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: something beyond just sadness. He looks numb. My dad died 57 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: of this and I don't even know what this is. 58 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: H they killed him, I'm sure of that. Two Cuts 59 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: and Mithra agree with Tableau that this death was because 60 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: of what Tagno had done. They wanted to give Tableau 61 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: time to heal from everything. Music was the last thing 62 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: on their minds. Right after my dad passed away, uh 63 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: like two or three days after I went into the 64 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: studio and made an album with Epecai. It's hard to 65 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: imagine the same three friends who were just at a 66 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: funeral going into a studio days later to make music. 67 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: But for Tableau, this was the only way he knew 68 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: how to cope. Epicchai was finally back in the studio 69 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: working on music again, doing the thing that brought them 70 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: together in the first place, and it got them to 71 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: this point. Then a few months later the album dropped 72 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: and it was not what people expected. The album was 73 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: called it was a full one from fevers In and 74 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: that was on purpose. So those two albums coupled together 75 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: are like a perfect like documentation of like what must 76 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: be going through someone's head when they experienced something like 77 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: really difficult and then try everything possible to like escape 78 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: it or to avoid it. One Tableau and Epic High 79 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: tried to bottle his dad's optimism and reclaim the time 80 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: and the energy and the youth that they lost in 81 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: that scandal. But moving on wasn't going to be so easy, 82 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: partially because the conspiracy had become bigger than Tableau. Even 83 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: though the Tajanio Forum was now relatively small, their model 84 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: for organizing followers was spreading Tajanio didn't get what they wanted, 85 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: but they did set a blueprint of how a small 86 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: rumor can start online and transform into a global movement. 87 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: It also became a test case for the legacy of 88 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: our lives online, how we all have to reckon with 89 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: whatever we do lasting forever on the Internet. And maybe, 90 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: if we've been paying attention, tableau story could have acted 91 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: as a warning sign for all of us of FIP hop. 92 00:06:55,040 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: What my Name? I can writing my book saw the 93 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: first time the mask Yeah from Vice and I heart 94 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: this is authentic. I'm XR Thomas Episode eight Fever Flowers. 95 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: When Epic Hies album came out in October of two 96 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: thousand twelve, Tableau's fans and his record label, we're not happy. 97 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: Our core fans hated it. They say that it's the 98 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: worst album I've ever made, and coming right after Fever's end, 99 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: they can't believe it right, they can't believe it's the 100 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: same person. Juan and count two Cuts says the fans 101 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: didn't like their album because it was different from what 102 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: people were expecting before this. Epic High was known for 103 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: being subversive. This is the group that got banned from 104 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: radio airplay for lyrics criticizing society to directly I think 105 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: we're just reckless. They had lyrics about religion and depression 106 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: and things that everyday Korean kids were going through, but 107 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: was none of that. I didn't want to talk about 108 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: anything introspective because I had so many things that would, 109 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: you know, may possibly destroy me again, right if I 110 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: started thinking so all all these songs are just really 111 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: really keen pop almost. I think I just kind of 112 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: wanted to avoid it. But I also had to make 113 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: that album to survive. Part of that survival meant getting 114 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: back to public life slowly. At first, Tableau stayed away 115 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 1: from any deep interviews and he was really hesitant about 116 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: live TV. If you did see him on TV, it 117 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: was almost definitely a prerecorded performance. He still wasn't sure 118 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: if he could handle the pressure, and he really wasn't 119 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: interested in going back to being all over the media again. 120 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: But then by Sheer accident, things changed. Epic High had 121 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: just started doing concerts again, and in China we were 122 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: We did a show and afterwards we were having a 123 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: drink and I tried to jump kick Mithra I slipped 124 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: on an ice cube, landed on my shoulder, instantly broke it. 125 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: Oh my god, very bad, like just bones shattered. Tableau 126 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: was rushed to a nearby hospital and they put him 127 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: on some pretty serious pain killers, and then at that moment, 128 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: out of all times, he got a proposal. And then 129 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: we're rolling me into the surgery and my managers like, 130 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: you know, this show came in and I'm like, do 131 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: you have to choose now? Like I don't know what 132 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: you're saying. He's like, we have to give him an 133 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: answer like now, and I was like, okay, whatever, Yeah, 134 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: I just do it. And then I came out and 135 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: I had agreed to do this show, and that is 136 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: how Tableau ended up on the Return of Superman. This 137 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 1: was a reality TV show where celebrity dads are left 138 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: alone with their kids for a couple of days while 139 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: their wives take some time off. The whole premise is 140 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: loki kind of sexist, but the idea was that dads 141 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: would probably struggle with basic household tasks or talking to 142 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: their kids, and so it would be funny. But for 143 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: Tableau it didn't quite work out that way because he 144 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: has a really good relationship with his daughter Lan. The 145 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: show was a big step for Tableau because he still 146 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: wasn't really comfortable with being famous, but having his family 147 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: there made things easier, and actually his interaction with his 148 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: daughter ended up being one of the most memorable parts 149 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 1: of the show. There's this one scenes from how to 150 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: showing off her stuffed animals. She's got horses and zebra, 151 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: and she's explaining to Tableau that each one of them 152 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: represents a different member of the family. So Tableau asks, okay, 153 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: is the entire family there, and had says yes, and 154 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: Tableau says, well, where's the grandpa. The camera hands over 155 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: to Hat and she says, Grandpa, Grandpa's gone to heaven, 156 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: and there's this silence, and then, totally unprompted, how It 157 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: gets up and hugs her dad Carboy. This show brought 158 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: in a whole different audience. People who might not be 159 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: interested in Tableau's music or even his grades at Stanford, 160 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: interested in him as a dad. I didn't show my 161 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: daughter's face for like three years. I was very private after, 162 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: you know, sheltering them for so long and trying to 163 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: hide them. And it's weird watching this show because you 164 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: realize how much time it passed. Remember the first time 165 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: that Tableau realized something was wrong, was when Tao member 166 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: started tweeting at him when he posted a picture from 167 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: the hospital when his baby was born. That baby was 168 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: now walking around and talking on TV, and Tableau was 169 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: now in his thirties and he was just straight up 170 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: a different person. I often feel like we are always 171 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: watching celebrities suffer something and get crushed by it. We 172 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: don't ever really get a chance to see like chapter 173 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: two of that life, at least in my mind. Dedicated 174 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: in my career too to showing that, to showing how 175 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: there is possibility of a great chapter two if you 176 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: don't let chapter one be the end, right, and really, 177 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: this chapter two of Tableau's career looks pretty good. Epic 178 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: HAIs celebrated being around for a decade. Over the next 179 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: few years, they went on tour and they even made 180 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: it back to the States. They not only hit up 181 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: South By Southwest, but they got on stage of Coachella. 182 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: Tableau stopped going on the Return of Superman, but then 183 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: he joined a different program, a rap competition show called 184 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: Show Me the Money What. Tableau was a producer throughout 185 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: their career. Epic High has released ten studio albums, and 186 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: in that time they've collaborated with some major artists not 187 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: just in Korea but from all over the place. Baby Joe, Joey, Badass, 188 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: Eric now dumbfounded Galian. The list just goes on. In 189 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: the relatively short history of Korean hip hop, Tableau and 190 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: Epic High are now elder statesmen, and their music has 191 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: been massively influential for the younger generation of Korean musicians, 192 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: including what might possibly be the biggest band in the world, 193 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: BTS Base bts IS, RM and Sugar have both spoken 194 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: pretty openly over the years about being inspired by Epic High, 195 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: and even though their group is known for K pop, 196 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: they are influenced by lyrical hip hop that directly speaks 197 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: to broader issues, which is what Epic Hai has been 198 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: doing since day one, and Yungi and RM have said 199 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: that Epic High's song Fly is the thing that made 200 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: them want to try wrap. But if you ask Tableau 201 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: about all this, he's a little shy. I'm sure they 202 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: would have discovered music, they're obviously um in love with it, 203 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: and they would have become musicians regardless. It's still gonna 204 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: be wild to hear that, though. I think what's most flattering, though, 205 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: is that their lyrical content and what they're trying to 206 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: do through music, just trying their best to be like 207 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: a good influence. I'm certain that now kids are listening 208 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: to bts the way they were listening to epic Ai right, 209 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: and sheer amount of kids has exponentially grown, and one 210 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: of those kids are gonna do something cool too. Tableau 211 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: and epic Hi have come a long way from couch 212 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: surfing and struggling to pay for dinner. They have a 213 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: real legacy now, even if Tableau doesn't quite know what 214 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: that means for him personally. And also, like I've feel 215 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: like hip hop and Korea is so young that it's 216 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: just weird to already like have our mount rushmore. You know, 217 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: we'll be right. Back when Tablo got started in Korea, 218 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: hip hop was really niche. But now, more than a 219 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: decade later, Korean hip hop is just part of the 220 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: normal mainstream landscape. In a lot of ways, the industry 221 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: has caught up to what people like Tableau were already doing. 222 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: Back when he was getting started, people in the music 223 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: industry might have called Tableau a quote unquote bedroom producer. 224 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: This was a word that people use for artists who 225 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: were making tracks on cheap equipment or just their laptops. 226 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: But nowadays the term is almost irrelevant because just about 227 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: every producer is starting out from their bedroom. And we 228 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: now take it for granted that thanks to social media, 229 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: anyone could be a star. How many guys and I 230 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: for a little time in Canada and major artists have 231 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: adapted to that too. Musicians and artists have started to 232 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: open up their lives on social media, and we're talking 233 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: seven coverage people cooking or doing their makeup or whatever. 234 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: He I just wanted to pop in and say hello, 235 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: I am live. It is bide minded, live with money, alright, 236 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: So let me cut this cucumber. Okay, I'm looking at 237 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: the d MS, but I actually can't because it goes 238 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: so fast because you guys are so amazing. There used 239 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: to be like this distance between the artists and the fans, 240 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: Professor hedging Lee Again. The artists didn't feel like it 241 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: was their job to use social media up to broadcast 242 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: everything that they're doing or to like express their feelings. 243 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,959 Speaker 1: They would use the social media as a tool for 244 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: promotional purposes. But now we're seeing the artists using these 245 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 1: tools to just casually talk with the fans, not necessarily 246 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: inviting a conversation, but at least kind of revealing their 247 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: private self a little bit, and I think that has 248 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: allowed the fans to kind of feel like they're getting 249 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: to know the artists at a more personal level. But 250 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: that amount of access and interaction also means that fans 251 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: can criticize artists directly like never before. And today we're 252 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: counting down our picks for the top ten celabs who 253 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: are constantly getting canceled. Christie he Can also recently try 254 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: to show off the results of her eyebrow transplant, and 255 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: her critics were appalled by her rich people problems. This 256 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: this is a serious situation. I'm just hard to al 257 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: Ovid has been dead since two thousand and three, and 258 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: the fact that Korean artists are now more global than 259 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: ever means they're being exposed to new demands from fans 260 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: in other countries to use their platform for something. We're 261 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: not satisfied with just art. We want to know who 262 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: these artists really are. This might be weird and other 263 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: genres of music, but within the culture of hip hop 264 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: that's always kind of been there, It's just more serious now. 265 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: I feel like that's one of the tough things about 266 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: hip hop, right We value maybe above all else being real, 267 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: being authentic, But what counts for quote unquote real is 268 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: actually fairly rigid, what kind of real that we are 269 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: interested in. There, there's a real way to dress, you know, 270 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: there's an authentic way to address it is an authentic 271 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: way to talk. And if you don't do that, then 272 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: it's just who is this nerd? Who is this outsider? 273 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: And so you should adjust yourself accordingly. But then the 274 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: flip of that is if you're adjusting yourself, that's not real. Yeah. 275 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,479 Speaker 1: And also the concept of real just constantly changes. And 276 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: this isn't just like just in Korea. Like remember when 277 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: Kanye came out and how that was like the moment 278 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: where we had to like the world had to decide 279 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: are you going to be for or are you going 280 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: to be for Kanye? Because in all ways they were different. 281 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: And then Kanye happened and everyone just started, you know, 282 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: wearing like skinny jeans, And when that happened, I think 283 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: a lot of Korean kids kind of felt like, oh, yes, 284 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: because now Kanye is dressing like us. Really yeah, And 285 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: there's something really interesting about the way that Tableau talks 286 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: about culture shifting over time, about who gets to be 287 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: real and what authentic is, because I think in some ways, 288 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: hip hop might be the one culture that makes us 289 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: ask all these uncomfortable questions. Hip hop is perhaps the 290 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: one genre in which authenticity is at a premium, Professor 291 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: Que Tugley, if it if it even comes across as 292 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: quote unquote fake or not real or inauthentic, you're done. Yeah, 293 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: you will not be hip hop. Yeah, questionable. Authenticity always matters. 294 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: Where do you draw the line between appreciation or learning 295 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: from our hybridization and appropriation? It is very difficult to answer. 296 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 1: But if you only like imitate something that original hip 297 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:51,719 Speaker 1: hop musicians are doing without understanding why they are doing 298 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: or without showing your own interpretation, I may consider it 299 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: as a cultural appropriation because if you if I call 300 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: it as a cultural hybridization, it means that you understand 301 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: the different culture and try to mix with the culture, 302 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: with the different culture with your own to create something 303 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: different from your original culture as well as the original 304 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: hip hop music. For example, there's a reason why I 305 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: waited to the last episode before even mentioning cultural appropriation. 306 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: It's not that I think the topic needs to be avoided. 307 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: It's that there's something particularly American about the way that 308 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: we tend to ask questions about whether or not somebody's 309 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: done enough homework to properly understand the culture. Topics like 310 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 1: culture and authenticity, these are difficult things to talk about, 311 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: and in theory, this is where the Internet should come in. 312 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: Thanks the message boards and social media, we have a 313 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: convenient way to have conversations where at the very least 314 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: you can learn how other people think. But as we 315 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: saw with Tajnyo, an online conversation can also quickly become 316 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: an online mob. I think what was interesting about the 317 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: taching your case is that people were using the internet 318 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: asked a way to like uncover truth or whatever truth 319 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: that they had in mind right and thinking that that 320 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: was their way of pursuing justice. And I wonder if 321 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: that's what we're seeing with so many like fringe groups 322 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: in the United States. Fringe groups are organizing in a 323 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: pretty similar model to the way that Tajanio did on Reddit, forums, 324 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: telegram channels, discords. They're demanding the truth from politicians, the media, 325 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: and really anyone that they believe is lying. And just 326 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: like with Tajano, as those ideas become more mainstream, it 327 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: becomes harder to call them fringe groups there, you know, 328 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:53,719 Speaker 1: just groups with questions and alternative facts. And as they 329 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: continue to spread misinformation, they gain more followers. And look, 330 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: it's probably a little stream to say that we can 331 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: draw a straight line from Taijanyo to Q and on, 332 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: But both groups share not only a mission, but a methodology. 333 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: A distributed, decentralized group with anonymous leaders who can be 334 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: swapped in or out at any time, that relentlessly pursues 335 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: their version of justice and truth. Truth is such a 336 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 1: subjective thing right now. My truth might not be the 337 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: same as yours. So if that's the world that we're 338 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: living in, then how can we survive together? How can 339 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: we coexist? This question from Professor Hedging sticks with me, 340 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: because listen, it's easy to look at the conspiracy theories 341 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: like Taijano and Q and on and look at the 342 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: frankly bonkers research that they're doing and laugh and say, yo, 343 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: these people, they lost their minds. Just forget about them 344 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: and just move on. But the reality is is that 345 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: these people are victims of misinformation. And that's not me 346 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: telling you that you have to feel sorry for them. 347 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: I'm just saying we have to live with these people, because, 348 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: if anything, the story of Tajano is a warning that 349 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: these pursuits of truth and justice can start to warp 350 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: our ability to understand each other as people. Tablet was 351 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: just one of the first people to experience with the future. 352 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: Was gonna look like I was in the hospital because 353 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: of my dad. And this mom and her daughter, like 354 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: her middle school, high school daughter are walking by, and 355 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: this the mom just comes straight to my face as 356 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: if I'm not an actual person but maybe like a 357 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: character or an avatar. Uh, And right to my face 358 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: says this guy. This isn't this the guy that lied 359 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: about his school, like right to my face, to her daughter. 360 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: And these things were happening constantly. Jesus, you know all 361 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: the articles then and after that have described this as 362 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: like an online phenomenon, right as problems with the Internet, 363 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: like as if fake news is confined to this like 364 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: digital space, and it certainly is not. It is so 365 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: connected to the real world. The longer we neglect that, 366 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: the harder it will become to do anything about it. 367 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: It is hard to put into words what exactly we 368 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: witnessed today because we have not seen this before. Thousands 369 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: storming the Capitol after a rally with President Trump sucking 370 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: he man, glad to see you guys. You guys are 371 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: fucking patriots. Look at this guy's got blood. And maybe, 372 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: just maybe, if we've been paying attention at the very least, 373 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: we wouldn't have been so unprepared when missing from Nation 374 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: grew to extremism and spilled offline into real life consequences. 375 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: It's now been more than ten years since Tableau's life 376 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: was changed forever by Tajanio. When you talk about sort 377 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: of the effects on you, you sort of seemed to 378 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: be more or less okay with that, and even when 379 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: it was happening, it seemed like you'd sort of accepted, Okay, 380 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: my my career is over, okay, And then when it 381 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: spread to your family, that was when it was okay. Now, 382 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: like fighting this. You also told me about how it 383 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,239 Speaker 1: affected your brother. What what kind of conversations do you 384 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: have with your brother now? I mean ten years on 385 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 1: and we don't talk about this really, Yeah, we don't 386 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: talk all. Lot of it just brings up too many 387 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: different things, you know. Yeah, after my dad passed away, honestly, um, 388 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 1: our family has not been the same. We don't talk 389 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: that much anymore. It's just yeah, because it just brings 390 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: up too much mhm, especially in this case, we just 391 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: don't discuss it. It's just it's connected to too many ah, 392 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: too many different bad things. I guess, so we are, 393 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: you know, we don't talk that much anymore because there's 394 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: nothing we can talk about to avoid talking about this. 395 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's our biggest shared memory, which sucks, but 396 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: it's impossible for us to not talk about this, so 397 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: we just talk about stupid things, you know, irrelevant and 398 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: possib things. I guess. I don't think I've ever talked 399 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: about this with my brother and my sister. I've talked 400 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: about it with my sister, she was sort of detached, 401 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: but I don't think I've ever talked to my mom 402 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: about it or after this. Do you think there's a 403 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: point where you'll be able to do that? Uh? I 404 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: don't think I really want to, um, to tell you 405 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: the frank truth, like I intended to never revisit this. Uh. 406 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: And I told the people that I work with. I 407 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: told my team, you know, like, this is just something 408 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to discuss. I don't want to think about. 409 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: I'm doing. I'm doing much better now with these memories 410 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: tucked away right, and Uh, I had a conversation with 411 00:29:52,920 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: like my you know, my manager, and like I I 412 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: I started seeing like this world, you know, I seeing 413 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: things happen that just constantly reminded me of what I 414 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: went through and noticing how it's not getting any better. 415 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: And now that my daughter is uh you know, she's 416 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: she's gonna she's gonna have to live in that world. Uh. 417 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: And I was telling my manager, you know, like I 418 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: really don't want to, but I think I need to 419 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: start talking about like what I experienced. I need to 420 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: uh start you know, revisiting it because you know, I 421 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: know that this isn't going to change anything. I know 422 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: that it's not gonna like just one day snap all 423 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: these problems away. At the very least, Tableau can keep 424 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: moving forward. Epic High just dropped their latest album. There 425 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: was a lot of anticipation for this one, but even 426 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: Tableau surprised not only the critical reception but the fans. 427 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: People are saying that this is their favorite Epic High 428 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: album ever. But I don't think this is surprising at all. 429 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: For almost twenty years, Epic High has been proving themselves. 430 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: In their first albums, they were trying to teach an 431 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: entire country what hip hop even was. Then they wanted 432 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: to prove that they could do pop music too. Then 433 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: they had to prove that, despite the scandals and the haters, 434 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: that they still had it. But they don't have to 435 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: prove anything anymore, and today Tableau is known for being 436 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: Tableau the Dad, just as much as he's known for 437 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: his music. Would you rather be stuck in a bast 438 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: room for twenty four hours or be stuck in our 439 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: car for twenty four hours? Is the car moving? When 440 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: you search Tableau and Epic High on YouTube, you'll see 441 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: his music, but you'll also see even more clips of 442 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: him hanging out with the other members, telling stories about 443 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: his family and just joking around. And he's cool with that. 444 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: The Tajano thing is more in the background now. He 445 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: tries not to think about it too much, but it's 446 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: hard because people still bring it up. Anytime there's a 447 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: rumor or an online accusation, people compared to Tableau and 448 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: start talking about Tajano all over again. For the longest time, 449 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: Tableau was trying to take the advice of everyone around 450 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: him to put all that in the past behind him. 451 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: But he knows that's not happening. It made me wonder something, 452 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: are you worried talking about this again? It's like kicking 453 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: the hornet's nest again. Um. I mean, like, but but 454 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: you know, I gotta kick the hornet's nest for people 455 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: to realize there's hornets here. M Uh. Whether or not 456 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: this will kick the hornet's nest again, I don't know. 457 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: It's actually something I didn't really that didn't really occur 458 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: to me until now until yeah, you mentioned it and 459 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: kind of scares me too. Yeah, of course, because now 460 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: my daughter can google stuff and she she has a 461 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: she has a phone, like she has friends with phones, 462 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: and um, yeah, of course, of course. Uh, it's something 463 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: that worries me. Like this experience I had resulted in 464 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: nothing good. I didn't like overcome this. I didn't like 465 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: have a big victory just because these people went to jail. 466 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: I didn't. I wasn't vindicated like um, people want to say, 467 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: like there was nothing really good about this, no matter 468 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: how you spend it. I lost too much that I 469 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: can't get back. Uh, So there's nothing good about it. 470 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: But I don't want to leave it at that. It 471 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: sounds to me like you're saying you hope that people 472 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: should be able to learn from this, but you don't 473 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: sound optimistic that they will. Yeah, but I gotta try 474 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: being real. I think Tableau is doing what a lot 475 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: of us do when we go through something terrible. You 476 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: know that phrase everything happens for a reason. And you 477 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: know how when somebody tells you that when you're going 478 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,280 Speaker 1: through it that it just feels kind of empty. Well, 479 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: Tableau is living through that, and he's hoping it's true. 480 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: Maybe it happened because I uh, I have the ability 481 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: to to use it in some way, like in some 482 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: positive way, and if it becomes uh, you know, like 483 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: a conversation between people about misinformation about um you know what, 484 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: how easy we trust things, we believe things. It's just 485 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: just the various different things that are like that are 486 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 1: a part of this story. I feel like some of 487 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,439 Speaker 1: it could lead to something good. The fever is not over, 488 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: not by a long shot. Looking around at the world online, 489 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 1: it might get worse, but maybe someday, well at least 490 00:35:40,600 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: get to see the flowers. M h Authentic is a 491 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: production of Vice Audio and I Heart Podcast Network special 492 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: thanks to Junior Khn from Vice Korea, Spion Home Threes Reez, 493 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: Nina Sudra and Kim Pierce. Also thanks to Stacy Harrington, 494 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: Samantha Rodriguez, and Jason Guberman. We'd also like to thank 495 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: Adi Nam, Brian Gold and Jim Are. Translators for the 496 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: series were Sarah Ree and Jen Quan. Authentic is produced 497 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: and reported by Stephanie Kryuki, Minji Coop, Kate Osborne and 498 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: myself with Janet, Stephanie Brown and Sam Egan. Sound design 499 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: and original music composition by Kyle Murdock with additional support 500 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,280 Speaker 1: from Natasha Jacobs. Our supervising producer is Janet Lee, editing 501 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: from Lazy Roberts, fact checking by Minji Ku and Nicole Pasuka. 502 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: This episode features music from Epic High from their album 503 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: Fever's End, distributed by y G Entertainment. This episode also 504 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: features music from BTS of Big Hit Entertainment. Thanks also 505 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 1: to KBS for their show The Return of Superman. Our 506 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: executive producer and VP Advice audio is Kate Osborne from 507 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: I Heart Podcast Network. Executive producers Nikki e Tor and 508 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: Lindsay Hoffman. I'm Dexter Thomas. Make sure to subscribe wherever 509 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: you get your podcast so you don't miss an episode 510 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: and if you dig it, give us a rating and 511 00:37:51,480 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: a review.