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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and you're listening to Steph Mom

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Speaker 1: never told you. Today we are joined by a coworker

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Speaker 1: of mine and a general badass, Miranda. Hello. Hello Miranda,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. No, thank you,

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to be here. Could you tell us

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Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself. Yeah, So, just so everyone

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Speaker 1: has a bit of background on me, I've been in

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Speaker 1: Atlanta for a number of years. I was a reporter

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Speaker 1: with W A B. E for a couple of those years,

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Speaker 1: and then I did a short stint on City Lights

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Speaker 1: as a producer. So if you know Lewis frightsis that's

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Speaker 1: who I worked with. Like everyone in Atlanta is nodding

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Speaker 1: their everyone in Atlanta, um, and I learned that. I

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Speaker 1: was like okay, um. But now I work here at

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Speaker 1: how Stuff Works, and I am one of the producers

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Speaker 1: and editors for Monster. I'm on the second season talking

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Speaker 1: about the Zodiac Killer, and I'll be working on the

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Speaker 1: third season, which we should be starting up soon. Um.

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Speaker 1: And just so everybody knows, I identify as a queer

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Speaker 1: film gay woman. So that's important because we are going

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Speaker 1: to be talking about some l g b t Q

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Speaker 1: I A stuff today as well, yeah, and I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure I've ever said it on this show, but I

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Speaker 1: am also queer, but I don't really date, so I

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Speaker 1: feel weird like saying it, you know what I mean

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Speaker 1: kind of just not I'm just not there in the

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Speaker 1: dating realm and that's totally okay, thank you. I'm still

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Speaker 1: kind of figuring things out and this show has been

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Speaker 1: great for that because we'll do episodes like we did

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Speaker 1: an episode on a pan sexual while back, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, huh, anyway, I'm working on that. That's actually

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Speaker 1: funny just because I've only been out a couple of years,

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Speaker 1: so I'm still learning. And when I first came out,

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Speaker 1: I was like, am I pan sexual? And I went

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Speaker 1: through that phase first so or not phase, but checked

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Speaker 1: out with that identity, checked in with right right. I

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Speaker 1: was for a long time I described myself as bisexual

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Speaker 1: and now yeah, I'm working on it. Listeners, but we're

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Speaker 1: going to be hearing from you, Miranda and a couple

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Speaker 1: of episodes because um kind of housekeeping. I guess. We're

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Speaker 1: just bringing in a lot of people to talk about

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Speaker 1: things that they're passionate about. UM. And it's been really

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Speaker 1: cool hearing from so many different voices, and I'm really

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Speaker 1: interested to get into one of the ideas that you

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Speaker 1: pitched today, But first a quick trigger warning. We're going

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Speaker 1: to be digging into consent and rape culture, so if

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Speaker 1: that's something that is triggering for you, you might want

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Speaker 1: to skip this one. Um, And I would love if

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Speaker 1: you could go into why you wanted to talk about

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Speaker 1: this topic, which is no means know the first time consent, yes. Yes.

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Speaker 1: So I was actually having a conversation within ex co

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Speaker 1: worker and we're talking about media and how it perpetuates

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Speaker 1: rape culture, and she brought up a couple very popular

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Speaker 1: movies and how and then it was kind of this

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Speaker 1: cat and mouse where the woman would be like no,

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Speaker 1: but the other person would to take that for an answer.

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Speaker 1: They would continue to push until the woman said yes.

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Speaker 1: It kind of clicked and I was like, oh, my goodness,

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Speaker 1: when we say no, but we don't really mean it.

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Speaker 1: It is a perpetuation of rape culture, and it just

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Speaker 1: something I've been very passionate about and like paying attention

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Speaker 1: to a lot of the media that I watch and

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Speaker 1: listened to as well. So it's just become very like

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Speaker 1: we want to make those changes, we also have to

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Speaker 1: say no and mean no the first time. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: there's a lot that goes into that, some of which

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Speaker 1: we'll be talking about today. Um because for so long

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Speaker 1: it has been sort of in our heteronormative dating scripts

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Speaker 1: that like oh no, um, but she really means yes.

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Speaker 1: And we kind of talked about this on our in

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Speaker 1: Our Stocking as Romantic episode because it is everywhere in

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Speaker 1: our media, like all kinds of media. Um. And if

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Speaker 1: if you're looking for more content on consent, we have

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Speaker 1: done a lot a lot of episodes around it because

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Speaker 1: it is so important. But in this episode today, we're

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Speaker 1: specifically looking at how it relates to dating and courtship

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Speaker 1: behavior and what we see in our media. To start,

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Speaker 1: I think it's generally helpful if you get a definition

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Speaker 1: of consent um specifically sexual consent from a mirror and

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Speaker 1: webster compliance in or approval of what is done or

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Speaker 1: proposed by another, specifically the voluntary agreement or acquiescence by

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Speaker 1: a person of age or within requisite mental capacity, who

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Speaker 1: is not under dressed or coercion, and usually who has

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Speaker 1: knowledge or understanding it is what a definition um from

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Speaker 1: planned hood, consent means actively agreeing to be sexual with someone.

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Speaker 1: Consent let someone know that sex is wanted. Sexual activity

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Speaker 1: without consent is rape or sexual assaults. And it goes

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Speaker 1: on to say this means every time for all sexual activity.

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Speaker 1: So I know we discussed in our episode around Rosemaries

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Speaker 1: baby marital rape wasn't illegal in the United States until

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Speaker 1: but it blows my mind. I know that was not

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Speaker 1: that long ago. Yeah, No, not at all. Yeah, but yes,

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Speaker 1: every time for all sexual activity, not just sex. Um.

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Speaker 1: It has to be freely given, no pressure, no manipulation,

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Speaker 1: no coercion, no drugs, no alcohol. It's reversible, which means

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Speaker 1: you can change your mind at any time, informed you

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Speaker 1: have all of the relevant information. Condoms, birth control, things

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Speaker 1: like that, enthusiastic doing stuff that you actually want as

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Speaker 1: opposed to what you think the other person wants or

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Speaker 1: what your affected to do. I think you can also

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Speaker 1: talk that up to performative sex right specific saying yes

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Speaker 1: to one thing and no to another. There's a reason

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Speaker 1: there are kinks out there. That's true. That's true. Silence

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Speaker 1: is not consent. What you're wearing is not consent. It

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Speaker 1: should be clear um. And it can be hard to

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Speaker 1: know some of this stuff when you're becoming sexually active

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Speaker 1: for the first time, especially here in the U S

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Speaker 1: where we have very little in the way of good

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Speaker 1: sex education. So it's worth talking about these things before, um,

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Speaker 1: you engage in any activity, UM, staying in touch with

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Speaker 1: yourself and your body and communicating those things, because I

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Speaker 1: do think when you're first starting out, you're you don't know,

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Speaker 1: you're not really sure. Yeah, yeah, and it's it makes

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Speaker 1: me so angry that we get no sex ad here,

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Speaker 1: really are I mean some places do. I definitely didn't know.

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Speaker 1: Not in the South, for sure. It's just abs, which

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Speaker 1: doesn't really work, y'all. Not all, no, no, no, I

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Speaker 1: thought babies came from your belly button. I think I

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Speaker 1: get pregnant by touching someone of the opposite sex. But

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Speaker 1: that was like to be fairy like back in like

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Speaker 1: sixth grade at a private Christian school. So okay, were

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Speaker 1: you like walking around we were like a box. I

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Speaker 1: did get in trouble for touching someone of the opposite sex, really, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And even after school events you had have books in

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Speaker 1: between you, so they were very like no touching. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so it makes sense kind of I would have been

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Speaker 1: in a constant state of paranoia. Goodness. Well, I guess

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Speaker 1: in some ways I did have bear sex. It's really bad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, Okay. Another important point. People who are drunk, high, incpacitated,

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Speaker 1: passed out, or miners cannot consent. Yes, And I want

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Speaker 1: to reinforce this because and I'm going to go in

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a small tangent, but a drunk

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Speaker 1: person cannot give consent. And I feel like this is

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Speaker 1: where a lot of victim blaming and shaming comes in,

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Speaker 1: because when people are really drunk, sometimes they might say yes,

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Speaker 1: or their body language says yes, or they're like about it,

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Speaker 1: but then they wake up the next day and they're like,

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Speaker 1: that's not something I wanted to do at all. And

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Speaker 1: although it's not the same, it's kind of like when

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Speaker 1: you're drunk and make plans with your friend, you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that sounds great. The next day you're like, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to do that. Yeah, so um. But I feel

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Speaker 1: like in that aspect um people are like, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: victim shaming. Oh you actually didn't want it, but no,

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Speaker 1: you didn't. You can't give consent. And for those of

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Speaker 1: you out there who are like, well, how do you

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Speaker 1: know if someone's drunk? We all know when someone is drunk,

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Speaker 1: and if you're asking that, and you're also sitting there

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Speaker 1: and you're drunk, the answer is always no. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a good idea to just kind of remove sex

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Speaker 1: from the table alcohol sex. Wait. You know, um, if

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Speaker 1: you if we go back to your story of what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about earlier, why you want to talk about this. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of us have experienced this whole

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Speaker 1: thing of saying no, and then it's kind of seen

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Speaker 1: as playing hard to get. So shall we say? Um?

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Speaker 1: There does seem to not only be a no means yes,

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Speaker 1: but no is a flirting technique, and it only means

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Speaker 1: no the second or the third or the tenth time. Um,

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Speaker 1: But it can't possibly mean no the first time. That's

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Speaker 1: not how this works. Yeah, I know growing up by

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Speaker 1: a definitely thought no. I was like, oh no, and

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Speaker 1: it's really cute and I'm like no, no, yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I know when someone tells me no, I'm a meat,

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Speaker 1: like okay, back off. And I was telling you this before,

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Speaker 1: but I had a recent X and we're about to

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Speaker 1: have sex and she was like, no, I want to

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Speaker 1: watch or listen to whatever songs she wanted to listen to.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, okay, and then I realized orry.

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Speaker 1: She let me know like that was her being coy

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Speaker 1: and she didn't really mean stop, but I was turned off.

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Speaker 1: I was like, no, you said no, that's a no.

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Speaker 1: It's a hard one, right. Yeah. And I, especially in

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Speaker 1: my younger dating years, like college, I would witness a

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Speaker 1: lot um friends of mine kind of being like, oh, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a weird thing. It's almost like when

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Speaker 1: you compliment someone, this is so like barely related. But

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Speaker 1: when you compliment someone and they're like happy, but they say, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is a thing. Oh I got this from the

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Speaker 1: bargain bin. It kind of gave me that similar vibe

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Speaker 1: of like, and I I was somebody who went through

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Speaker 1: that stage two of just being because I had internalized

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Speaker 1: all this stuff that my value was, my my looks,

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Speaker 1: just being so flattered that anyone would like, oh I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to dance something. No, And I'm embarrassed about it.

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Speaker 1: But I do think that is something that as an adult,

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Speaker 1: thank god, I've gotten away from it. But I think

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Speaker 1: that plays into a little bit what we're talking about today. Absolutely, yeah, jeez,

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Speaker 1: I try not to think about those years to offen. Oh,

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Speaker 1: and just to be clear, a lot of what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about today isn't specifically about penetrative sex. UM situations

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Speaker 1: don't always escalate to rape. So I'm going to take

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Speaker 1: a second and define sexual assault as defined by RAIN,

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Speaker 1: which is, if you don't know, the nation's largest anti

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Speaker 1: sexual violence organization UM. They define sexual assault as attempted rape,

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Speaker 1: fondling or unwanted sexual touching, forcing a victim to perform

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Speaker 1: sexual acts, penetration of the victim's body, also called rape. UM.

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Speaker 1: I do have a little bit of an issue that

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Speaker 1: they're defining rape as penetrative sex, not all sexes, but

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Speaker 1: you get the idea, UM. But to boil it down,

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Speaker 1: consent should be given for any and all physical touch.

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Speaker 1: Grabbing people are simply touching them in general without their permission,

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Speaker 1: is still touching them without consent. Yeah, um, And we

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Speaker 1: are going to be focusing on sort of this like

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Speaker 1: in the realm of relationships. But it's also a lot

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Speaker 1: of what we're saying, no means no. The first time

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Speaker 1: you could put that in context of like this whole

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Speaker 1: mess that's happening right now with the State of the

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Speaker 1: Union and Nancy Pelosi is like no, Donald Trump and

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's like no, but come on, no, right, no, right, wait,

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Speaker 1: She's like no, I mean no means no. And also, um,

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Speaker 1: as a lot of listeners know, I, UM, IM prone

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Speaker 1: to cosplay at events that it is acceptable to Uh.

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Speaker 1: This is something that comes up a lot because the

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Speaker 1: second you're in a character addressed as a character that

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Speaker 1: people love, then it seems that and in some ways

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Speaker 1: I understand, but you also have to remember this is

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Speaker 1: still a human person. But it's almost like this character

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Speaker 1: that you love and you just want to touch them

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Speaker 1: and take pictures with them. You still have to ask,

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Speaker 1: you still have to get consent. It's a whole conversation

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Speaker 1: that's happening in that community right now. And that's actually

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Speaker 1: something that UM, I try to be very proactive with

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Speaker 1: because I used to just take pictures of people, but

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Speaker 1: now I try to like ask, okay, if I take

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Speaker 1: your picture, that means I'm hard to get any pictures

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Speaker 1: that I'm okay with that. Okay. It's so very and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they appreciate it though, yeah, yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: think it's just polite. It's just polite mirandom okay. And

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Speaker 1: one other problem is a lot of articles that we

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Speaker 1: both found about this were very heteronormative, and this is

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Speaker 1: the case for most episodes we do. Unfortunately, Um, it

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Speaker 1: is changing, but slowly. Just science, good science takes while.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, but consents for everyone and everyone needs

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Speaker 1: to learn about it. Yeah. And because also in my

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Speaker 1: research I had a hard time finding articles, even reaching

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Speaker 1: out to people within the community. Um, you get to

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Speaker 1: hear personal anecdote a good person. And we will get

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Speaker 1: into some of those personal anecdotes. But first we're going

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Speaker 1: to pause for a quick break for word from our

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Speaker 1: sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Okay, so one

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Speaker 1: thing we wanted to touch on here is something that

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Speaker 1: we hear a lot of when this conversation comes up. Um, annoying,

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Speaker 1: but it kills the romance. You're killing flirtation, Miranda. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's not for TA, shouldn't. That's always bothered me

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Speaker 1: is I'm like, that's only flirting for you. For me,

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Speaker 1: this is terrible thing that's happening. Yeah, No, this is

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable now, right, but we've seen it happen over and

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Speaker 1: over again. Roman Polanski, who I know so much about now,

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Speaker 1: he said that, like the me Too movement is killing romance.

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Speaker 1: Those all the women in France that signed that letter

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Speaker 1: saying me too is killing romance. This is something that

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Speaker 1: we hear a lot, and I don't understand. I guess

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Speaker 1: I've just never thought that was fun. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if there are women that do. I'm sure there are,

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Speaker 1: but not for me. No, not for me either. It's

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Speaker 1: actually the more that people ask or ask for consent,

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Speaker 1: even little things like holding my hand or giving me

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Speaker 1: a kiss or anything, I really like it. It actually

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, thank you. Yeah, well, because then you

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Speaker 1: have to check in with yourself and be like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would like that, yeah, as opposed to like, whoa,

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Speaker 1: oh do I want to hold the hand? I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been I've been called off guard it. I I

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Speaker 1: went to a birthday party last year and this woman

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Speaker 1: was actively pursuing me, and I wasn't sure about it

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Speaker 1: and a kind of hard when it's third birthday party. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they just go in to kiss you and you

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Speaker 1: get real weird and awkward and nos, like this is

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Speaker 1: not really what I wanted, right, Yeah, it's not romantic

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Speaker 1: to me. Thanks for the attention, but I didn't want it. No,

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Speaker 1: it was really fun. Um A while ago, I was

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Speaker 1: having conversation with a lot of my male friends, and

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Speaker 1: I was saying, how I've never ever thought the idea

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Speaker 1: of a public engagement was romantic. I hate it. I

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Speaker 1: think that's terrifying, like stressful. If you if we agree beforehand, okay,

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Speaker 1: but if it's just like a surprise in public, we

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Speaker 1: might break up bresn and there, because you clearly don't

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Speaker 1: know me very well. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, the cancer is no, I'm sorry, Like that's

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Speaker 1: I don't like that. That's too much. And it seen

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Speaker 1: as this romantic, great romantic thing, and everybody that sees

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Speaker 1: it is on the side of the person pros and

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Speaker 1: like say yes, say yes, which is part of the

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Speaker 1: whole problem here that we're gonna get into a bit more.

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Speaker 1: But we're talking about consent. Yeah, we often hear that

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Speaker 1: you'll break this romantic moment by getting consent or getting

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Speaker 1: verbally rejected is too painful, So why even Yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: heard that before, as a lot of us know. Probably

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Speaker 1: this conversation around consent is especially crucial on college campuses.

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Speaker 1: Some universities have moved from no means no campaigns to

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Speaker 1: yes means yes campaigns. Advocates of this approach argue that

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Speaker 1: it reframes sex more positively and puts the onus on

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Speaker 1: the potential perpetrator as opposed to the potential victim. I say,

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Speaker 1: just listen to the other person what they're saying. No,

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Speaker 1: because yes, me, yes, yes, yeah, all the above l

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Speaker 1: g B t Q is still off out of this.

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Speaker 1: An account from a gay young man attending university put

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Speaker 1: it this way. As a single gay male, the expectation

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Speaker 1: is that you're always ready for it. For men, there's

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Speaker 1: never a question of yes means yes because yes is

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Speaker 1: always assumed to be the answer. And I have heard

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Speaker 1: that something similar to that from male gay male friends

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Speaker 1: of mine. UM, so that is something that we definitely

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Speaker 1: need to be paying attention to as well. I've heard

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Speaker 1: that as well. And also, like I don't know if

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Speaker 1: like lesbians or gay women, depending on how you identify, um,

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Speaker 1: it's always kind of somewhat of the same thing. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: because women are hyper sexualized. I mean, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of different people who are hyper sexualized, but especially it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: well women specifically, so it's like, of course, right, yeah.

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Speaker 1: In October, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology m i T

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Speaker 1: conducted a survey on the student population about sexual assault

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Speaker 1: and the results were extremely telling. Of the participants, five

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Speaker 1: percent of men and fifteen percent of women reported experiencing

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Speaker 1: sexual assault assault defined as unwanted contact from touching to

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Speaker 1: penetration that involved force or threats of incompacitation. Of those

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Speaker 1: quote said they didn't think it was serious enough to

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Speaker 1: officially report, and forty four percent that they felt quote

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Speaker 1: at least partly responsible for what happened. Overall, of men

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Speaker 1: and fifteen percent of women agreed that a drunk person

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Speaker 1: who has assaulted is at least somewhat responsible, and more

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Speaker 1: than half of all students agreed that rape and sexual

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Speaker 1: assault can happen unintentionally, especially if alcohol is involved. And further,

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Speaker 1: one third of the students surveyed agreed that rape happens

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Speaker 1: because men can get carried away in sexual situations once

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Speaker 1: they've started. This is from a global mail report UM

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Speaker 1: reporting on the survey, and all of this is very

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Speaker 1: very unsettling to me. So I have a really I

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Speaker 1: mean even issue follow that. But that last line, I

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Speaker 1: feel like really toes that boys will be boys excuse

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Speaker 1: and that is extremely unsettling the fact that people were saying, well,

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Speaker 1: boys will be boys on both ends. I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: that's not how that works. No, like the idea that

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Speaker 1: you get carried away and what a way to put it.

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Speaker 1: Let's little like I got carried away and murdered that person.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, I mean I should just get a four

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Speaker 1: dollar fine and be let go. No, I don't even

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Speaker 1: really need to go to prison or anything about that.

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Speaker 1: I just got carried aways. That's infuriating. Yeah, it's really upsetting.

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Speaker 1: And these are um smart young young people men and

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Speaker 1: women saying saying this and again when I, like I said,

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Speaker 1: I had problematic ideas around dating courtship in college too. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So here's hoping that as better education and have we

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Speaker 1: have these conversations that we can move away from that mindset.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's a hard one. Yeah. Another interesting point here.

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Speaker 1: Even though an estimated nine out of ten women who

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Speaker 1: are raped are raped by someone they know, throughout most

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Speaker 1: of the United States, rape is defined as an act

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Speaker 1: that requires physical force or in other words, no means

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Speaker 1: no isn't enough if you were to take it to

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Speaker 1: court all of the time, which is yeah, yeah, okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can't see the look on my face right now.

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Speaker 1: It's not it's withering. I'm shrinking back a little bit

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Speaker 1: from the microphone. It's not me, marand I've changed things

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Speaker 1: if I could. Um. This is the case in the

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Speaker 1: American Law Institute started modifying the rape statute. State legislatures

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Speaker 1: used as examples and models. So oh wow. Yeah. What

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Speaker 1: else is very very amatic is this Marie Claire article

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Speaker 1: called five reasons No might mean yes, and it is

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Speaker 1: as bad and probably worse as it sounds. Also want

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Speaker 1: to say it's written by a man. Um, but here

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Speaker 1: are the reasons women say they don't like their boyfriends

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Speaker 1: at first. Interesting with the examples, like I thought he

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Speaker 1: was creepy at first, or he grew on me. I

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Speaker 1: thought he was a loser, Okay, to be fair, I

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Speaker 1: was engaged years ago. Okay, I thought he was creepy.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think he was creepy. I didn't think it

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Speaker 1: was creepy. I thought he was ugly. Oh okay, but

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Speaker 1: that changed. Yeah, so he wasn't creepy, but his smiles

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Speaker 1: while I stayed around. But that doesn't creepy. I don't

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Speaker 1: know now, I mean, there are a couple of things

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Speaker 1: points to be made here. One if someone is like

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Speaker 1: I thought she was a loser, I'm not entirely sure

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Speaker 1: that's a great basis for a relationship. It could be,

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Speaker 1: but so and secondly, this to me is like every

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Speaker 1: sitcom that was on TV and maybe still is. I

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Speaker 1: just don't watch that much TV anymore. Of like the

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Speaker 1: formula beautiful, then woman who's smart and got a job,

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Speaker 1: and then like dopey guy who's like a little weird yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he's a yeah, no, definitely, it's it's still a thing, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I And and it always he grew on me as

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Speaker 1: a great That's what happens a lot in those shows,

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Speaker 1: Like he persists and eventually she's like, oh, all along,

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Speaker 1: he was right here. I knew there's a reason I

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Speaker 1: don't like sitcoms. Yeah, there's a specific brand that I remember.

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Speaker 1: It was like the same exact story pretty much every time.

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Speaker 1: Tempal ties exactly. The second reason in this article, men

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Speaker 1: love the thrill of the chase. And I'm gonna include

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Speaker 1: this whole paragraph because it's so mind blowing to me.

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Speaker 1: We know that you know that we like the thrill

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Speaker 1: of the chase. So if you're saying no, we tell

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Speaker 1: ourselves that you're just playing hard to get. In fact,

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Speaker 1: we may enjoy hearing no at first because it intensifies

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Speaker 1: the challenge. It means you care enough to play hard

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Speaker 1: to get. Those of us who can't take a hint

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Speaker 1: or want to look at our failure in a positive

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Speaker 1: light might keep trying until we know we are officially rejected.

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Speaker 1: It's sad when it turns out that no was indeed

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Speaker 1: no and not part of the game. Mm hmmm, I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of looks. Yeah you do. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: mean there's so much there. Oh, look at our failure

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Speaker 1: in a positive light. M hmmm. Yeah. This article is

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Speaker 1: making it about him and not taking at all into

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Speaker 1: any sideration why the other person is saying no. Right.

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Speaker 1: I do think it's pretty telling when he writes that, um,

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Speaker 1: that you might enjoy hearing not at first because it

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Speaker 1: intensifies the challenge and means you care enough, you care

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Speaker 1: enough to play hard to get. Because I do think

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Speaker 1: there's that weird thing of you don't want a woman

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Speaker 1: who's easy, uh like, because that means she says yes

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Speaker 1: to a lot of men maybe and I don't want that.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, you're making another great face I've mentioned before

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Speaker 1: on this show, and I swear I don't mean it

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Speaker 1: to sound braggy, but I get asked out a lot

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Speaker 1: and I'm not interested in dating, and a part of

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Speaker 1: me thinks it's this like there's this sense like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's saying no. She's saying no to a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: It's a challenge and I'm like no, it's like literally

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Speaker 1: no chance. I think by this article, we should just

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Speaker 1: like have a stamp or something, just just as officially

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Speaker 1: rejected and that way, you know, off the bat done.

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Speaker 1: I like it. A couple years ago, my boyfriend at

424
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: the time got me these cards printed out that said

425
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: she's not farting, she's just being nice, because he got

426
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: so annoyed that people like he'd be standing right. It's like, yeah,

427
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: it's true. That is another problem that I would love

428
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: to come back to you. But this whole thing where

429
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: I'm just a conversational, nice person, I have that problem.

430
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: People think I'm flat. I'm not. I'm really just being

431
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: nice and taking an interest in another human being. Yeah.

432
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 1: It almost makes me sad because it's like people listening

433
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: to you that it can't be anything else than she

434
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: must be interested, we must date. I don't know it's

435
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: so so much of an outlier that you're thinking someone

436
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 1: being nice to you shouldn't blur that line, y'all. Alright.

437
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: The third reason is we've been rewarded for campaigns. Quote,

438
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: I've grown accustomed to overcoming obstacles such as early knows

439
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: to get to where I want to be. So is

440
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: this like I've had a lot of freelancers or people

441
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: who have risen in their industries and they say that

442
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: when they start out, they are A story I've heard

443
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: is like they put the rejection letter on the wall,

444
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: and every time they get one, they put it on

445
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: the wall until they get to where they're at and like,

446
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: look at all this stuff, But that doesn't equate to dating. No.

447
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: That is an interesting point though, because in our culture,

448
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: we do hear the story. And I think it's very rare,

449
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: but we hear this story a lot, as if it

450
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: happens all the time. That like I kept persisting until

451
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: this company hired me, Like they said no, and I

452
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: went out and did this wild thing and they were

453
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: so impressed. And I guess you can kind of see

454
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: that to you of this like escalating, and we see

455
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: it in movies, but we see in real life of

456
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: like she said no, but then I'll go get the

457
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: flowers and the band and then she'll have to see

458
00:27:53,040 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: it boom box outside the window, call the police. Yeah.

459
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: The fourth reason knows and yeses aren't always solid in

460
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 1: the beginning, and the five we can turn an unsure

461
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: no into a yes quote. So, given the amount of

462
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: times we have to convince, change minds, turn the tides,

463
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: and overcome obstacles, we've learned that sometimes no can mean yes. Okay,

464
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: this is just a really gross article. It's really bad. Yeah,

465
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: I remember when I read it, I had a reaction

466
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: of parity. Also, no no means no, yes means yes,

467
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: And if you're not sure, you can say maybe it's true. Yeah,

468
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: I think maybe these are vastly underused. That's true. Yeah. Um,

469
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,959
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean keep pursuing. Let them make up

470
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: their mind, right right. It's not a game to be one,

471
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: it's not you're not entering into a negotiation. No, because

472
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: it's also viewing something a surprize. Yeah, and that's not

473
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: what a healthy relationship should be. And I would hope

474
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: that's what we're striving for. Healthy relations Um. So I

475
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: know again, like there's not a lot of information in

476
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: the queer community. But I did find an account of

477
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: um of this woman who was a student at a

478
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,959
Speaker 1: Midwestern university, and she talks about getting sexually assaulted. Her

479
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: and this other woman. We're watching a movie on a couch,

480
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: which is you know, something people do who are dating,

481
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: and the other woman started to assault her. I wouldn't

482
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: have sex, and um, the student said, you know, said no,

483
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: and she tried to physically stop certain things, and she

484
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: just wasn't strong enough to overpower and so you know,

485
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: that's like a clear no, and someone's still not listening.

486
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 1: But when she went to authorities, they didn't view it

487
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: as an actual rape because it was another woman, and

488
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: they were like, there's no penis. We don't understand what's happening.

489
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: And even within her own community, like she had other

490
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,479
Speaker 1: women being like that didn't really happen, that's not actually whatever.

491
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: So it's unfortunate. Like, as we're talking about consent, no

492
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: means in the first time, yes means yes, But even

493
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: when you're saying no in certain communities, it's still like, oh,

494
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: but you didn't really mean it, right. Yeah, that's a

495
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: really big that is a huge problem that like you

496
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: were saying we need to redefine what rate encompasses. Yes,

497
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: it's a lot more than what it currently how it

498
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: currently stands, and even in doing research for their even

499
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: in Georgia, looking at the laws, it's still is specific

500
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: about penis. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's very disheartening, um, especially

501
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: like state laws, because you think, well, obviously this thing

502
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: is wrong, and perhaps it will be it will still

503
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: be punished, but the law might not like be there.

504
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: It's it's really strange to me how many things that

505
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 1: are still really bad um, still prevalent, dominant, even if

506
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: we're not aware. Yeah, yeah, and I mean I I'm

507
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: not unaware that we have problems like at all, but

508
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: there's some that I've like marital rape. My goodness, I

509
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: would assume we've been a lot further away than that.

510
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, Also, because there are a lot of statistics

511
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: you know about heteronormative or hetero couples, I did bring

512
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: up a few just for the l g B t

513
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: q I A community, just to make people aware that

514
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: it's this, this is a problem. Although the study that

515
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to cite from focuses mainly on LGB people,

516
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: but the CDCs National Intimate partner and sexual Violence survey

517
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: from showed forty four percent of lesbians in sixty one

518
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: percent of bisexual women experience rape, physical violence, are stalking

519
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: by an intimate partner. Forty six percent of bisexual women

520
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: have been raped of bisexual women have been raped by

521
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: an intimate partner. And although it's not broken down, the

522
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: US transgender survey done by National Center for Transgender Equality

523
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: found that forty seven percent of transgender people are sexually

524
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: assaulted at some point in their lifetime. There are now

525
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,959
Speaker 1: these statistics other than transgender survey are compared to UMIs

526
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 1: hetero woman. Uh, you know, but I don't really like that,

527
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: but you know, there's there's not as much data out there. Also,

528
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: to be clear, this data's old UM and only focuses

529
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: on LGB people, so it doesn't take intoccount all orientations.

530
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: But I just wanted to kind of give a glimpse.

531
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: This is still an incredibly rampant problem, even though it's like,

532
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, consent mainstream media, like it's not shown the same. Yeah,

533
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: and another thing always we're taking into account when we're

534
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: talking about stuff like this is um the most underreported crime.

535
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's probably even worse. It's definitely worse. Definitely worse.

536
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: Also because if you take a little bit of a

537
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: side note, but when you take constent out of it,

538
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: there's also some of us just hate crime too, so

539
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: you have to take that into account. So it does

540
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: get a little bit more complex in that aspect. A

541
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: couple of weekends ago, I was I was harassed by

542
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: a woman. It's just the second time it's happened to me.

543
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: And it was very strange, like I almost was. I

544
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: had a surreal dream, like am I asleep? Where am I?

545
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: It didn't help that I was at a bar that

546
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: was very very strange, like it had that vibe of

547
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: like I am in twin Peaks right now? Yeah, like yeah,

548
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: And I remember just I turned around and said, I'm

549
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: going home to like everybody, everybody in the bar, They're

550
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: all like, okah, cool. I don't think people knew standing

551
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: women could be just as aggressive, sometimes even more so.

552
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: And it's it's a little frightening. I mean it is frightening,

553
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: not a little, it's frightening. Yeah. Yeah, Um, I was

554
00:33:54,520 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: very just taking it back by the whole thing. Um.

555
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: Something else that is frightening is our media and rape culture. Um,

556
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: I was reading a Huppope piece about it, and the

557
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: author of it encouraged everyone to stop for a minute

558
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: and think about the term rape culture. The definition of

559
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: culture is by the way the customs arts, social institutions

560
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group.

561
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: So rape culture it Yeah, it is worth pausing to

562
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: think about how terrible that is. Um. Peggy Reeves Sandy

563
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: wrote in a woman scorned quote, rape is an expression

564
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: of social ideology of male dominance we live today, she asserts,

565
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: in a climate that encourages male sexual license and violence

566
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: against women and discourages female sexual autonomy and agency. Wow, yeah,

567
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: that's yeah, and again we see this everywhere. You You

568
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: were like, my, uh, I'm kind of in a weird

569
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: bubble of like very particular media entertainment. But I'm not

570
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: in the like popular bubble now, I like thrive. I'm like,

571
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: what's I am ashamed to admit? I watched two seasons

572
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: of like forty five minute eight episode per season. Anyways,

573
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: Huluse show on Sunday. That was my whole day. I

574
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: mean that sounds like a lovely day. Um. Before this

575
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: is another thing, before we get into all of your

576
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: your expertise in media knowledge. M I do want to

577
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: say that I had to learn a lesson with UM.

578
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: I'm someone who likes to just do stuff all the time.

579
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: So if you say I've always wanted to do this,

580
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: I'll be like, let's do it. And I've had to

581
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: learn that when people say like they want to come

582
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: over and watch a movie, I would be like, Okay, cool,

583
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,720
Speaker 1: let's watch that movie. I've never seen it. They definitely

584
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: met something else. And it makes me sad because now

585
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: if somebody says I would like to come over and

586
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: watch this movie, I'll be like, maybe not. We're talking

587
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: about Netflix and show not necessarily, but yes, okay, okay.

588
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: Just like the whole idea of me thinking I just

589
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: want to watch this movie, it is not it meant

590
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: something else. Yeah, yeah, no, I get what you're saying.

591
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: I have to be very specific. Yeah, unless it's like

592
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: a good friend or something where it's let's watch this movie,

593
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: it's like, oh yeah, yeah. But I've even said before

594
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: to somebody as long as we're doing I was just friends.

595
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: Didn't stop him anyway. So let's talk about some of

596
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: these examples. UM. One that when we were writing this

597
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 1: was really blowing up in the news. Was the Netflix

598
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: show you? Yes? Yes, I actually when I started researching this,

599
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: I this is the first article that popped up, and

600
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: I went home and had to binge it because I

601
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: was like, I need to know what I'm talking about. UM,

602
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: so if you haven't seen you, I'm sorry they're going

603
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: to be spoilers because it's important. Um, but basically, have

604
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: you have you seen it? No? But I my phone

605
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: was like, all these people think the guy is sexy,

606
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: but he's really creepy. Yeah, and even he's had to

607
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: come out and be like, hey, no, you're not supposed

608
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: to root for my character. He's bad, so he plays Um.

609
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: The two main characters are the guys Joe Goldberg in

610
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: the show, and her name is Guinevere Back in the show,

611
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: and basically he is stalking her to get her to

612
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: date him. But the reason why it's a huge issue

613
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: right now is because of the way the show is done,

614
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: So they tell you the story through his perspective, so

615
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: you hear him while you see things going on, and

616
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: like it's like, oh, because everyone calls her back, Um,

617
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I know it's best for you, Beck,

618
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to take care of you. I'm going to whatever.

619
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: So even though there's a scene of him jacking off

620
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: and the bushes across from her apartment with her like

621
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: window open, people still like it's like people gloss over it.

622
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: It didn't happen, and um, but it makes him seem

623
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: like he's sweet and endearing. But it's like, no, he's stalking.

624
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: He takes her phone, he breaks into her a place,

625
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: He does all this stuff but simultaneously. And this is

626
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: where I think people struggle a bit. He has his

627
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: next door neighbors. Are these this mom and her boyfriend

628
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: who are who fight. He's abusive, but she's also strung

629
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: out on drugs, and so the kid is always in

630
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: the hallway by himself, and so Joe is always like

631
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 1: bringing the kid books, trying to take care of the kid. Whatever.

632
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: So it's like, here's this like sweet side and it

633
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: is a little it's a little hard, like when I

634
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: was watching Adi sit there and be like no, Miranda.

635
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: He's bad. And at the very end, he does end

636
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: up murdering his girlfriend, so he's a murderer as well,

637
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: and he also murders her best friend. And he also

638
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 1: murders a couple of people. Yeah he sounds bad. Yeah,

639
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: he's very very bad, but they make the character likable

640
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,919
Speaker 1: and that's why I like people. Like, I know it's bad,

641
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: but it's like whatever, because the things he's doing is romanticized. It's, oh,

642
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: but let me take care of you so you don't

643
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: have to do it, or let me do whatever. But

644
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: it's extreme emotional manipulation as well as stalking and like

645
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: even though as far as consent goes, like when she

646
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,479
Speaker 1: does say no about something, he'll listen, but then he'll

647
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: do some tactic to try to get back in there.

648
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: Yeah that huh, that makes me think of Um, I've

649
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: put a lot of an almost embarrassing amount of thought

650
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: into things like twilights and why why are we women's

651
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: attracted to pretty much like monster stocky behavior, And I

652
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: think it might be a couple of things. But romanticizing

653
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: the fact that this person loves you so much they'll

654
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: do anything, and it's like that, it's like romanticizing boys

655
00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: will be boys. Essentially, it's saying like, oh, well, he

656
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: did this terrible thing, but it's because he couldn't help

657
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 1: it because he loves me. No, No, it's bad. Also,

658
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: like I noticed, like if you really really like someone

659
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: and I do something kind of weird, you tend to

660
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: let it slide because it's like, oh, but if you

661
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 1: don't like someone as much and they do the exact

662
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 1: same thing, then you're automatically like that's creepy. So it's like, well,

663
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: we were talking about how you can't find a good

664
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: example of well, not too many good examples of like

665
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: this happening for a female if it was reversed swaps.

666
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: And I also I've I have read a lot of

667
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: fan fiction. You see stuff like this all the time.

668
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: Fan fiction. Fan fiction is like the place people go

669
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 1: to figure out their sexuality. What's for me anyway? Um,

670
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,439
Speaker 1: So it's just like kind of disheartening, and I hope

671
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: that people work through those things. But I also think

672
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: that the whole like monster aspect is because that for

673
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: so long we have been taught as women that we

674
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: have no sexual agencies. So there's something about like, I

675
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: the female character can't say yes, like she doesn't know

676
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: how because she's you, and you don't know how to

677
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: say yes. So you want this like monster character that

678
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 1: loves you so much, and boys will be boys, And

679
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: it's really terrible narrative and I can also see it

680
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 1: factoring in desirability, like if they're willing to do anything

681
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: for you, you're that much more desirable, exactly like the

682
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 1: form of power. But really it's incredibly disempowering for oh everybody. Yeah. Yeah, anyway,

683
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: I have a lot of thoughts on I would love

684
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,720
Speaker 1: to do an episode on like women attracted to monsters, um,

685
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 1: but it reminds me I have This year, I brought

686
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: on a friend who was like well versed in Christmas

687
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 1: movies and holiday movies, and we were discussing, um, baby,

688
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 1: it's cold outside, and on the seth Meyers show Amber

689
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: Rough ended like an update of it, and she was like,

690
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: I really can't say and the guy said, okay, Oh

691
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 1: I like that. Actually great. I love that. Another example,

692
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: I haven't seen this movie even though I was on

693
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 1: the Ryan Gosling train when I was nine years old.

694
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: I wrote up a letter and I dotted all the

695
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: eyes with hearts because he was on this show called

696
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: Young Hercles. So don't even be talking to me about

697
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: no Ryan Gosling. But no, I've not seen the Notebook movie.

698
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't get over Young Hercules. He is always to me.

699
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: I'm so like because this is like the society's a

700
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: banome of like romance. Like, Okay, so I hope y'all

701
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: have seen The Notebook. I think they have, but I'm

702
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: sorry because i think I'm literally the only one. So yes,

703
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: the Notebook is unfortunately also a really big component of

704
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: perpetuating rape culture and not listening when someone says no

705
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: the first time. Uh. And it's specifically the main like

706
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of articles about this, so you know,

707
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure this isn't the first time you've heard it.

708
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: But Ryan Gosling's character when he's hanging he's hanging off

709
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: a ferris wheel. Rachel mcadam's character has already told him

710
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: now um, and so they're out of fair and he

711
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: thinks it would be romantic too, as like the ferris wheels,

712
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: moving to climb up on the ferris wheel, which could

713
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,439
Speaker 1: have hurt everybody, and then to hang down with two

714
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: hands in front of her, asking her out and she

715
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: says no, and he's like, if you don't go out

716
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 1: with me, I'm going to drop and he goes down

717
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: to one hand and basically coerces her and just saying yes.

718
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: And it is seen as a huge romantic gesture and

719
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 1: it's not no. No, was the like crowd on the

720
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: Ferris Wheeld where they're like say yes, I'm sure they were. Honestly,

721
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: it's been a while since I watched it, but I

722
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: do that one specific scene and it's yeah, but yeah,

723
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: it was seen as like oh my goodness and like no, no,

724
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: just I would be very afraid or out of that

725
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: person what they would try to do. Yeah, that's like

726
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: red flag from emotional manipulation. You know. I wonder if, um,

727
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: because if I watch a movie movies from like my

728
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: parents generation, when I go home, it's usually uncomfortable because

729
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: it is in this like oh wow, that's not okay anymore. Um,

730
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: but it was romantic. I wonder if, like a couple

731
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: decades from now, people watching a notebook and be like, whoa,

732
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: that is not romantic. I can't believe they thought that.

733
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: See how it ages? Yeah, that is interesting. I wonder

734
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: what people will say because people have pointed this out before,

735
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: but it still doesn't seem to have lost its stem

736
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: so to say yeah, yeah. Um. We we talked about

737
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: it a little bit in um Our Stocking and the

738
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: Romance episode. We also talked about say anything songs. Blurred

739
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: Lines is the perfect example. Yes, um, also my one

740
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 1: of my least favorite songs ever. Every breath you take

741
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: that song, I thought I was could be like the

742
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:03,879
Speaker 1: first time I heard it, it's like eight years old,

743
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: I was like, this is not good. He's gonna he's

744
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 1: gonna kill her. There's no one else concerned. But it's

745
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: seen as a romantic you can't you can't go on

746
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 1: with outer. Oh no, that's no, that's terrifying. It is, um.

747
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: But the point being this is everywhere, we see it

748
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: all the time, and it normalizes rape culture. Um. And

749
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 1: culturally we have set these expectations that men are entitled

750
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: to attention from women and see Cardi b an offset.

751
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: I I do know some of the pop culture that's happening. Um,

752
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: cat calling. I still want to get a shirt that

753
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: says it's just my face. For how many times I've

754
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: been told by a man, which is several a week,

755
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: that i'd like pretty or very smiled. I get that

756
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, yeah, that women actually want the

757
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: attention and that they're playing to get. I just want

758
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: you to leave me alone. Yeah, I really just want

759
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: to go about my day, that's all um. And there.

760
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 1: We even see this in popular sayings like don't take

761
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: no for an answer, go get her, Tiger, or the

762
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: plot of video games where peaches your freaking prize. We

763
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: don't respect women, we sexualize them, we view them as objects.

764
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: It is a huge problem. Yes, yeah, yes, I think

765
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 1: every episode we end with this is a social problem

766
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: of not respecting women. And it's infiltrated our systems and

767
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to change everything from the bottom of up.

768
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: It's a big gass, but we need to get about

769
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: doing it. Yeah, one day at a time. Um. In

770
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: the episode Bridget and I did around stalking being romanticized,

771
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: one of the many popular pieces of media when it

772
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: comes to a man courting women is that, and that is,

773
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: unfortunately the story we've seen most of the time. The

774
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 1: formula is man wants woman, woman says no. Man persist,

775
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: woman says no. Keepers this harder man is rewarded with woman.

776
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: M hm. Also the term that he's rewarded Yeah, yeah, no,

777
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 1: I mean that especially oh like the eighties, I mean

778
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: sixteen Candles. Yeah, Revenge of the Nerves. It's all bad,

779
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: it really is. Um. But yeah, again, because women are

780
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,959
Speaker 1: objects with no agency, that it's just this, oh, wear

781
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: down and she'll be my care for your viewing pleasure

782
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 1: hashtag trophy wife shirts another shirt to be made. Um.

783
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: And another thing is kind of going along with a

784
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: lot of what we've been saying, is that women are

785
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 1: kind of expected to resist sexual encounters and to have

786
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: less of an input on the ultimate decision. And this

787
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: is it's such a big problem because I mean, no

788
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: means no, Yes means yes, but I feel like for

789
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: women it's difficult to say yes as well. But yeah,

790
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: because of the whole like a bit of the slut shaming,

791
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:20,879
Speaker 1: because if you're saying yes, and it's like how many

792
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: other people have you said yes to exactly, It's just something,

793
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: especially when you're younger. I think it's a struggle. And

794
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: I remember because I was raised in a really religious household, um,

795
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: and a lot of times I would like want to

796
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 1: have sex and that I would get to the moment

797
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: and I couldn't do it because I feel like I

798
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: just feel like the shame all of a sudden. So

799
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: we're not really talking too much about that here, but

800
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: I do think that is another issue aspect of it.

801
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: We don't basically we're not giving women equal say in

802
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: this whole like sex decision, which is real, Like you're

803
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: shamed if you if you have sex, if you want

804
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: to have sex, but if you don't want to have sex,

805
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: you're also shamed. I just can't win, can't win. I

806
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: feel like I say that all the time. And I

807
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 1: was telling you that I've had a male friend say

808
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: to me before he would never date a woman that

809
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: made the first move because he would think it was

810
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: too aggressive. That's just ridiculous, I know. Like I also

811
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: told you I got called aggressive um the other day

812
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 1: at a bar because I was explaining um of a

813
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: past relationship to someone and the guy was like, but

814
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: he was also one of those hashtag him too guys.

815
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: So I was like, oh, that makes sense, um. But

816
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,879
Speaker 1: when I was dating men before he was out, I

817
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 1: was most of the time making the first move. And

818
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: also now that I'm out, what would lesbians do? Is that?

819
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: Like do you have to yeah, just the first person

820
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: you accidentally brush against, Like Okay, that's it, that's it.

821
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: Here we go. Yeah. And it's like, especially like when

822
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: it comes talking about like media and in the no

823
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: means no and consenting everything else, I think it is

824
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: harder sometimes in the queer community because queer people are,

825
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: you know, as women are hyper sexualized, but it's like

826
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: super hyper sexualized as well. Um, there's this quote from

827
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 1: this article from autos Straddle. Autos Straddle is basically a

828
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: lesbian online publication that I really enjoy and like to

829
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: check out their stuff. But someone was talking about how

830
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: rape shots sound inside queer bodies, and they have this

831
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 1: quote from the article that says, our heteronormative culture hyper

832
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: sexualized is queer and trans women and gender nonconforming people

833
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: will stripping us of sexual agency and denying the legitimacy

834
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:48,240
Speaker 1: of our sexuality. This makes sexual violence against us seems

835
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:52,439
Speaker 1: semantically impossible, even though it's rampant. Yeah, and I feel

836
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: like everything we've talked about that really wraps it up. Yeah.

837
00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: Or that article that you shared it with me, and

838
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: it was area it was it was a good read.

839
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 1: Difficult read, but a good read. Yeah, difficult but good. Um.

840
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: And and just as an example of another article from

841
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: that same site talks about Also, y'all should know, I'm

842
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 1: a huge nerd. I love comics and superheroes, but it

843
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: talks about one episode of our one issue of Catwoman,

844
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: and this was like, so it's been a few years,

845
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: but how Um she was fighting this villain who was

846
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 1: a female vampire, and the issue the villain rapes um batwoman.

847
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: I think I might have said cat one batwoman. And

848
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,439
Speaker 1: it's an issue because one, it's two men who made

849
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 1: this comic, but to reinforces that lesbians are woman on

850
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: woman or anything is sexy and it's for the male gaze,

851
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 1: and so it trivializes legitimacy of any of it, which

852
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 1: also adds to like, well, if it's not real, then

853
00:51:54,400 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: how could it be rape? Yeah. Um, there's another something similar. Um.

854
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: I think it was Captain Marvel and she was raped

855
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: and got pregnant, and it was kind of like this

856
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: you know mind thing. You know, comics are weird. But

857
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: she was raped and she got pregnant, and everyone was like, well,

858
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 1: at least you got a baby out. This is great news,

859
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: like all of the other characters. Yeah, because she got

860
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: pregnant and she was like really sad and depressed and

861
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: crying and they're like, cheer up, you've got a baby

862
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: on the way. Oh my goodness. I don't know how

863
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 1: old it is, um, but it's um. Yeah, if you've

864
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: ever read that, article. Um, the princess is not in

865
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: your castle. He talks about it in in there, so

866
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: it's very upsetting. Yeah. Yes, on that note, we have

867
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 1: a little bit more for you, but first we have

868
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 1: one more quick break for a word from our sponsor.

869
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: M hm, and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. One thing

870
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: that we wanted to touch on before we close out

871
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 1: here is the fact that saying no can be scary.

872
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: And I've spoken a lot about de escalation, socialization and

873
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,919
Speaker 1: how we value women are don't um, how we don't

874
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: respect or listen to women. I have story after story

875
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: of my own, and I know friends of mine who

876
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: have story after story, especially if you work in like

877
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: um service industry. Yeah, oh yeah, then a lot of times,

878
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: you know there is the potential for this to escalate

879
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: very quickly, um, and for violence and anger. So maybe

880
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: you'll kind of jokingly laugh off something that you want

881
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: to say no too, but you know that there's a

882
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: risk that it will get way worse. Yeah, it actually, Uh.

883
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,720
Speaker 1: Margaret Atwood, one of her best best quotes, in my opinion,

884
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: is men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women

885
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: are afraid men will kill them. Yeah. Yes, it's a

886
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 1: very real thing which can make it hard to say no.

887
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: And if you I mean, that's another thing that I

888
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: think as women, UM, we might just take for granted,

889
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: but you should pause and think about that, that there's

890
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,479
Speaker 1: something in your brain that's trying to protect you from

891
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 1: being murdered. That's intense. Yeah. Yeah, or the fact that

892
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 1: it's something that you have to think about though. Yeah,

893
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 1: it's like it's like you can't just say no and

894
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: take it at that. You always have to take into

895
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: account though. Okay, what's the situation where I'm at am,

896
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: I talking to A B, C and D. You have

897
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: to go through a whole list of things. Yeah, you

898
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: can't just say no, no, even if you want to,

899
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: and if you want to. Um, I think I was

900
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: reading a Harper's Bizarre article. In one of it, she

901
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: starts off the article um with basically some statistics about

902
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: women getting killed by men. But it says one in

903
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: three women are victims of domestic violence, and in cases

904
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: where women are murdered, domestic violence is involved, and nine

905
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: of those cases the perpetrator is their husband or boyfriend

906
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:14,280
Speaker 1: or an intimate partner. And before someone says, but women

907
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: kill their male partners too, yes, they do two per

908
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:26,240
Speaker 1: cent of the time, and yeah, so it makes sense

909
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 1: to you know why it can be hard. And another

910
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:35,959
Speaker 1: reason is, uh, social status desirability are status is based

911
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: on how much someone wants us. So it's like if

912
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: we say no and someone gets angry and they're like, oh,

913
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 1: well you don't mean anything. Well you're you know, a

914
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: bitch or whatever, and all of a sudden, it's like

915
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 1: you're you don't have any worth anymore because you said no. Yeah.

916
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: I I for some reason, during like a year period

917
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: of my life, and I would say no. People almost

918
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: always would say to me, but it was bread pitt.

919
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: You'd say yes. It's like interesting, that's not a guarantee

920
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: that it's not And also like, huh that says a

921
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: lot about you. It's like your perst And I'm like, okay, anyway, okay,

922
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:27,359
Speaker 1: you are a little concerned about them. Yeah, yeah, that's

923
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a shame because I I just expect

924
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 1: to if I go out that I will at some

925
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: point be harassed and I will at some point be Yeah,

926
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 1: now it actually happened to me. I go out a

927
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: lot on my own. I'm very independent. And also I

928
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 1: don't think I need someone to go sit at a

929
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: bar like I like to sit and like just you know,

930
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: do whatever, have a couple of drinks, go home. I

931
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,439
Speaker 1: went to a bar frequent often, and the guy this time,

932
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: he was like he was really drunk. So at first,

933
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: you know, I gave him that benefit of a doubt

934
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 1: when he tried to talk to me and I was like, no, man,

935
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: just trying to do your my own thing. Leave me alone.

936
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, man, I really don't want to

937
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: you know, no, wouldn't leave me alone. And it started

938
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 1: to escalate to the point where like, and I don't

939
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 1: like saying this, but it was like I am talking

940
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: because he's like, who are you talking to? Because I

941
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:15,399
Speaker 1: was on my phone. I was like a woman because

942
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: he like, who's that guy are you talking to? He's like,

943
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: are you talking to us? Like I'm talking to a woman.

944
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: It's not really any of his business, but I'm like,

945
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: hopefully this like he'll leave me alone. It actually made

946
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: it worse. He started calling us Starlene from Rosanne as

947
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 1: an insult um and then and like everyone around me

948
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: could see I was getting visibly upset because at one

949
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 1: point I turned him. I was like I got just

950
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 1: laid it down. I was like, dude, I don't want

951
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: to talk to you, leave me alone. And then what

952
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: he proceeded to do is pick up his glass like

953
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: of a shot. He's like, cheers me first, cheers me first,

954
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: like me saying no and asking for my own space,

955
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: like no, it had to be on your terms, not mine.

956
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: And it just was this huge situation that completely escalated.

957
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 1: You can tell my my body language, like I am

958
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 1: being very vocal. People behind me, you're paying attention. No

959
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 1: one's doing anything which they shouldn't have to do. But

960
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: at that point I was like, he's not listening to me.

961
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: So and then he goes outside and then I have

962
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: to like pass him to walk to my car, and

963
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: I was scared. I didn't go back to that bargain

964
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: for a very long time. Yeah. Yeah, And I was like,

965
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: uh no, no means no the first time, right, not

966
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: the hard dog. It shouldn't be. But apparently we have

967
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,919
Speaker 1: a lot of work to do. And again, I think

968
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: sex ed is a great step. We need to have

969
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 1: these conversations with young people about their their lives and

970
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 1: sex and what's going on with their lives. And I

971
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:39,439
Speaker 1: also I again, I we don't teach anything about sex.

972
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 1: But what we do barely touch on is that you

973
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: can get these diseases. I want people to be comfortable,

974
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: like I want them to know no means no. But

975
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: also if you want to have sex, then you asked

976
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 1: me to yes, and be comfortable with that. But it

977
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: has to be an informed, educated decision. We're not. We're

978
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: failing the young people in our country. We're failing everybody

979
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: in our country. And because I mean, it's not like

980
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: you've magically learned it all. I could benefit from some

981
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 1: good sex education. Oh my goodness, no, I agree, and

982
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 1: also teaching kids, um, you know when they're young boys

983
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: and girls like hey, you know, be responsible for your behavior.

984
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, communication in general, I think that's just good advice.

985
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: That's like the baseline. It's just that would be good

986
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: listen to people learn. It's I mean, it can't be

987
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: scary to voice things that you can be and it

988
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: can also be uncomfortable to ask sometimes if you're not

989
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: used to it, you know, so you know, as you're learning,

990
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: But it's good on both ends to ask and also

991
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: to say like if you're asked, or just to tell

992
00:59:51,360 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 1: people in general. Yeah, always communication, We're on board. So

993
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: talking about communication. I did a lot, y'all should know this, so, um, yeah,

994
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 1: lots of stories. But I hooked up with someone recently.

995
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 1: Um and while we were hooking up, first of all,

996
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: they asked from the beginning, can I kiss you? Yes?

997
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 1: And then you know, we got into actually having sex,

998
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 1: and every little bit through it, because this was a

999
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 1: new partner, every little bit through it, they would say,

1000
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 1: is this okay? Is this okay? First of I was like, yeah,

1001
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 1: like we're in the middle of doing this, of course

1002
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 1: it's okay. And then I realized they were just checking

1003
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: in because it's a new partner, so we don't necessarily

1004
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: know all these things that are not okay. And then

1005
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, this is super consensual sex and

1006
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: this is great. I really was like this. I was

1007
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 1: all avounded after, like, once I realized what was happening,

1008
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, my goodness, you're being like really conscious.

1009
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: Loved it, y'all. It doesn't take any roommate. Sounds like

1010
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: she makes it a lot better. That's fantastic. That's fantastic.

1011
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 1: And finally, yes, the big one total societal shifts easy,

1012
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: respecting women, respecting people in general, listening, treating people like people. Yeah,

1013
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: let's we can do it. The bastic human respect. Yeah,

1014
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: we're asking for it. Seems like it would be simple.

1015
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: But anyway, thank you so much for joining us today, Miranda. Yes,

1016
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Yes, we will be hearing from

1017
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 1: you again. I can't wait to hear your Ariana Grande thoughts,

1018
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: have so many thoughts. You do, you do? I'm very excited.

1019
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: Where can people find you in the meantime? You can

1020
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: find me online on the Monster if you want to

1021
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: listen but still, you know, not even a subtle shout out,

1022
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: and you can also find me on Twitter at Knox

1023
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 1: can o X, Underscore, Hawkins h w K I ends.

1024
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: There you go, And if you would like to write

1025
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 1: into this show you can. Our email is mom Stuff

1026
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 1: at our stuffworks dot com. You can also find us

1027
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast and on Instagram at

1028
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 1: stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as always to our

1029
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 1: producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening.