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Speaker 1: Nay, Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Every Wednesday, we recap our old episodes with all new commentary,

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Speaker 2: updates and insights, and you're welcome to listen.

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Speaker 3: Today we're recapping episode seventy two, which we named Stephen

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Speaker 3: It Out.

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Speaker 2: This episode came out on June eight, twenty seventeen, which

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Speaker 2: is also George's birthday.

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Speaker 3: Burday I was turning thirty seven. Let's listen to the

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Speaker 3: intro of episode seventy two.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to My Favorite Murder.

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Speaker 3: That's Karen Kilgara, that's Georgia Heartstack.

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Speaker 2: And here we are looking at Stephen Ray Morris as

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Speaker 2: if to say.

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Speaker 3: Hey, how what's up with Yeah, that's what the podcast

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Speaker 3: is all about.

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Speaker 2: Two people trying to talk at the same time the same.

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Speaker 3: Thing words thing. Yeah, I can't, I can't, I can't either.

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Speaker 3: The finger does help either. We're bad at this podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm bad at improv, I'm bad at what other people want.

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Speaker 3: We were bad at this podcast is because we couldn't

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Speaker 3: say the same things at the exact same time. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's what makes you bad at podcast. And every article

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Speaker 3: they're like, they're okay, but they can't say the same word,

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Speaker 3: the same so time, oh shit, time another if you

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Speaker 3: listen to episodes, what is the seventy what is this

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Speaker 3: student seventy two? I know, Stephen, how do you know?

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Speaker 3: How do you know that?

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Speaker 2: Because I'm in the in the email, I'm the the

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Speaker 2: info email.

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Speaker 3: I don't check that. I know. I get over It's

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Speaker 3: funny how you and I both just get overwhelmed at

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Speaker 3: different things, and so we do the thing that we're

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Speaker 3: not overwhelmed by and the other person just like doesn't

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Speaker 3: pay attention to do it. That's right. Like you are

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Speaker 3: you're the description person and the naming of the podcast person,

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Speaker 3: and who gets back when people are like, hey, do

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Speaker 3: you want this podcast to be posted? And I'm like, no,

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Speaker 3: I can't.

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Speaker 2: I can't do it. I don't want to be in this.

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Speaker 2: And then you're the march person. You're the magazine person. Well,

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Speaker 2: magazine you get us all the magazine subscriptions that we want,

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Speaker 2: better homes and gardens, sunset, popular mechanics.

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Speaker 3: If that were my job for this podcast, so I

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Speaker 3: would be sad.

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Speaker 2: You would be sad to get magazines.

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Speaker 3: Here. I got you a copy of from four months

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Speaker 3: ago of Psychology Today. It's right here. Thank you. Ten

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Speaker 3: months ago, I kind of have been sleeping on the job.

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Speaker 2: That's so nice of you. Well, I guess I'll read

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Speaker 2: it now, would you?

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Speaker 3: Okay, Stephen, can you edit this out? Okay?

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Speaker 2: And we're back and welcome Karen. How is psychology today time? I? Oh, oh,

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Speaker 2: I thought you met. We're back starting over? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Hell no, we never start over.

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Speaker 2: God, that's a good magazine, just filled with advice.

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Speaker 3: It's actually really fucking good. Mind, it's good.

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Speaker 2: You're like, don't be sarcastic about so illowed you today,

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Speaker 2: even for one moment. Talk to me though, Dare you

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Speaker 2: talking about my magazine that way?

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Speaker 3: I got my mom A's subscription to that one. You're

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Speaker 3: being like, listen, can you get your fucking shit together?

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Speaker 3: Howbout you read this subtlety? Did she do it? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: she loved it. I don't think she understood. I don't

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Speaker 3: think she is self aware enough to understand the messaging

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Speaker 3: that it was pointed. Sure, although she did text me.

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Speaker 3: We got in a fight like a week ago, and

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Speaker 3: I was pissed off at her, and I tweeted something

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Speaker 3: like the hardest chob in the world is raising your mother?

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Speaker 3: Thinking that knowing that she doesn't read Twitter. She's not

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Speaker 3: on Twitter. My dad wrote back, you're telling me. I

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Speaker 3: was like, you know, Marty, Marty. But then when we

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Speaker 3: were making up, like a couple days later, she wrote,

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Speaker 3: and I know how hard it is to raise your mother.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, delete. Do you think Marty

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Speaker 2: threw it in her face?

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Speaker 3: Now? I think she saw it? You think she checks now?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 3: Shit? Yeah. But I can't imagine she listened to this podcast.

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Speaker 2: Well if she does, Hey, Janet, Jana, what's up?

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Speaker 3: Paray? Best friend?

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Speaker 2: Remember when we partied in Chicago together. We had a

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Speaker 2: good time. Where were we shuago, No, we were to

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Speaker 2: Chicago twenty sixteen. It was Christmas.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure we've talked about this on this podcast, but

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Speaker 2: one of my favorite things that's ever happened to me

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Speaker 2: is the night before our show we got in Chicago.

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Speaker 2: In Chicago, twenty sixteen, December, Christmas time got it. I'm there,

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Speaker 2: my sister, Adrian, and Audrey. The four of us went

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Speaker 2: out to try to eat something, but it was kind

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Speaker 2: of late at night, so nothing around, and it was

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Speaker 2: fucking freezing.

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Speaker 3: It was like fifty degrees. It was in windy, so

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Speaker 3: everyone shut up from everywhere else. Yeah, it's Wendy fifty.

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Speaker 3: There's nothing.

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Speaker 2: I'm from Alaska.

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Speaker 3: We don't care. No, there was wind everywhere. Listen, I'm

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Speaker 3: on the north Pole.

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Speaker 2: That's nothing.

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Speaker 3: It's in narwhal.

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Speaker 2: One.

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Speaker 3: The other guy's like, what a dick? The other narwal

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Speaker 3: come and get a cartoon of a normal saying that,

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Speaker 3: and another going like what a dick?

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Speaker 2: Shut up you dick, bye, mister Norwal. I'm completely ripping

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Speaker 2: that off from ELF. Okay, but oh I didn't know it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: stick your sources. We go into a Walgreens and we

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Speaker 2: all buy hats. That's how cold it is. We're California girls.

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Speaker 2: We had no idea our layers weren't going to work.

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Speaker 2: So we start walking just trying to find anywhere to eat,

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Speaker 2: and we find we walk in. We walk in, it's freezing,

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Speaker 2: and we're like basically fighting the elements. And finally we're

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Speaker 2: on a corner and I turned to this girl that's

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Speaker 2: standing there stress on the corner, and I was like, Hey,

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Speaker 2: do you know any like even a diner anywhere, at a

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Speaker 2: restaurant that's open around here? And this girl, she was

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Speaker 2: like in her probably mid twenties, maybe you get a

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Speaker 2: little older.

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Speaker 3: No, maybe a little older.

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Speaker 2: No, I just need for this to come out of

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Speaker 2: her mouth. She goes, I don't know, but you know

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Speaker 2: what you can do? You could google it. But she

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Speaker 2: wasn't being sarcastic, like that's something my sister would say

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Speaker 2: to me with so dripping with sarcasm, where I'd be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you really got me. But this girl thought she was

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Speaker 2: giving us great advice. She was like, oh, oh, but

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Speaker 2: you know what you could do? You could google it.

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Speaker 3: I try to google.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, you're so right.

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Speaker 3: Have you ever have you ever said that to someone

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Speaker 3: in in a sarcastic way where it's like someone will

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Speaker 3: be like, you're like, here's my address to get to

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Speaker 3: my house, like what's the cross street? And then you're like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, let me google it, and then you

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Speaker 3: google it and tell them no, I've you ever done

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Speaker 3: that that specific exchange.

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Speaker 4: It's mean no, never mind, you're saying reverse it and

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Speaker 4: be sarcastic.

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Speaker 2: I get you, Yes, I've never done it. I'm positive. Well,

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Speaker 2: I mean like, that's just saying have you been a

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Speaker 2: bitch in this certain way? Absolutely be a bitch.

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Speaker 3: Have you done it. Uh huh, Yeah, that was you

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Speaker 3: saying a hot of me just now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, even that was bitchy anywhere on that bitch

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Speaker 2: color wheel. I've been there to times twenty.

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Speaker 3: I mean it's a beautiful rainbow. I like it. There's

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Speaker 3: subtleties or shades, yeah, I mean oftentimes it's necessary, like

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Speaker 3: the way I answered the girl who sincerely told me

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Speaker 3: to google a restaurant and I was.

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Speaker 2: Like thank you in a way where she's like, you're welcome.

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Speaker 2: I walked away thinking she'd made a new friend, where

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Speaker 2: I was like, I just tried to stab you with

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Speaker 2: my words. But okay, her brain was frozen. It was

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Speaker 2: really cold. Her brain was frozen. She was probably shit face,

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Speaker 2: shit face. I'm just really good at covering it up. Oh, any,

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Speaker 2: do you have any actual business?

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Speaker 3: No. I met a couple of murderingos at Ryan Adams

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Speaker 3: show over the weekend that were really nice, cool that

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Speaker 3: weren't like that were really cool cool, shook hands like

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Speaker 3: business people.

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Speaker 2: Nice, thank you, I'm in Oh did you meet the

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Speaker 2: executive of GM.

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: We shook hand and I strong form handshake. Had a

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Speaker 3: glass of really expensive whiskey. I don't know what I

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Speaker 3: would say the name of it. If I knew it,

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Speaker 3: an expensive glass of whiskey.

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Speaker 2: Was called I don't know, McClellan's one hundred and eight, mcmoney's, mcmoney's.

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Speaker 3: Do you have any business? Yes, Okay.

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Speaker 2: There's a woman in Australia, a murderino who went on

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Speaker 2: to a game show no Americans ever heard of, which

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Speaker 2: makes this difficult because this doesn't stick.

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Speaker 3: If somebody had texted us and.

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Speaker 2: Said a murderino was on Jeopardy, right, we'd all have

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Speaker 2: shut our pants and freaked out.

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Speaker 3: But everyone in Australia is like shutting their pants and

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Speaker 3: freaking out.

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Speaker 2: And they're like a murder veino who's on the chase.

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Speaker 2: That's my accent.

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Speaker 3: What's it called the chase?

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Speaker 2: The chase? It's called the chase, and I have it

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Speaker 2: right here. What's her name again, Natalie Krugg. Okay, this

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Speaker 2: is Natalie Kradele. She's a contestant on the chase.

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Speaker 3: You Natalie Krug Listen, murderinos, if you want to get

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Speaker 3: above someone, beat this. I don't know. I'm kidding.

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Speaker 2: I don't care your personal models, stay safety and don't

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Speaker 2: get murdered.

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Speaker 3: So where's the from It's past.

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Speaker 2: Favorite murder murder. It's two very funny ladies in California

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Speaker 2: and talk about the true crime nuts and now they

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Speaker 2: just chat about it and it's the race.

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Speaker 3: It's one different show.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 3: Yay, Stephanie. I mean that is so fucking surreal. I

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Speaker 3: can't believe it. Don't get murdered, murdered? How'd she say,

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Speaker 3: don't get madden me and then everyone else, you know,

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Speaker 3: stay sixty, don't get madded. It's so cool, that's amazing,

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Speaker 3: it's so wild. Thank you so much, Natalie crap I

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Speaker 3: called her, Stephanie, did you yeah?

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Speaker 2: I up?

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Speaker 3: Thanks Natalie. It's so crazy. We love our fans. Stephanie, Stephanie,

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Speaker 3: you mean the world to me, Stephanie. No one's not.

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Speaker 3: Can you give me a clean Natalie and I can.

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Speaker 2: Just okay, Natalie Notalie. Do pee wee Herman from herman,

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Speaker 2: mister Herman.

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Speaker 3: I do the thing, do the do the thing. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: Whenever there's someone talks about corn, I always say, can

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Speaker 3: you say May's and then Karen fucking blows it up by.

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Speaker 2: Saying, this is Paco and his wife. I'm na's that one's.

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Speaker 3: No basement in the Alamo either one. But the first

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Speaker 3: one is better because it's like it's really obscure, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like the first time I said.

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Speaker 2: It, we are yes, we're quoting Pee Wee's Big Adventure.

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Speaker 2: And the first time I did it, the delight on

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Speaker 2: Georgia's face that I also knew a line from Pee's

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Speaker 2: Big Adventure to the like to no where it went

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Speaker 2: in the scene was you were thrilled, but everyone.

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Speaker 3: Like everyone knows the line. I was saying, everyone knows

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Speaker 3: a thing in the Alamo. But then you took this

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Speaker 3: obscure line and said it perfectly to something I've been

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Speaker 3: saying forever, which is can you is it? Can you say?

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Speaker 2: Mays?

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Speaker 3: And then I was just like what I was like,

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Speaker 3: I was being pushed in like a shopping car, and

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you know, just like this was

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Speaker 3: so cool.

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Speaker 2: Well, and also I think I explained this to you.

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Speaker 2: But my friend Jennifer Gearing and I who was my

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Speaker 2: lifelong friend, I haven't seen her forever because she lives

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Speaker 2: in DC. I'm sure she doesn't listen to this, but

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Speaker 2: by Jen, I love you if she does.

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Speaker 3: But we grew up together.

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Speaker 2: Our families were friends or our parents would hang out

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Speaker 2: together and like get together. And then Jennifer and I

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Speaker 2: were just the two youngest, so we would pair off

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Speaker 2: and go have fun. But she's the greatest. Like we

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Speaker 2: saw Rada's Last Ark in the Theater together, like all

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Speaker 2: of my all of those major moments of childhood I

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Speaker 2: had with Jennifer Gearing. And of course we saw Hughey's

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Speaker 2: a Big Adventure in the theater together. And so we

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Speaker 2: just spoken movie quotes constantly, so we would just when

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Speaker 2: we were bored or there was nothing else happening. Got kids.

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Speaker 2: This is before social media. What you did was just

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Speaker 2: say movie quotes back and forth to each other like lunatics.

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Speaker 3: That's how my brother and I have communicated, Like we

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Speaker 3: hated each other, and then the Simpsons have started happening

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Speaker 3: and married with children, and then like since then, he

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Speaker 3: and I've never had a conversation that isn't a quote

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Speaker 3: from one of those two like we generated. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we just can't do that. We have like a secret handshake. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's that's from groups of family therapy though, but we

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Speaker 3: have this. Oh that's real.

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Speaker 2: I thought you meant the Simpsons quotes were the This

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Speaker 2: secret handshake is from when we had to go to

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Speaker 2: family therapy. Wow. Yeah, wow it actually yeah, okay, it

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Speaker 2: was good.

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Speaker 3: It was great because we made a secret handshake and

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Speaker 3: then we hated the therapist together and everything was fine.

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Speaker 2: That's good. Yeah, and then you have like comedy bonded.

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Speaker 3: Yeah good, speek so good. What were we talking about?

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Speaker 2: We're talking about Natalie Murder Madnick mid it it's a sixty,

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Speaker 2: don't get mad it there it is. Hey, technically it's

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Speaker 2: my birthday today, Georgia. Not until Thursday. But when when

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Speaker 2: people hear it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, ha day, yes podcasters birth No, thank you? Thank

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Speaker 3: you Elvis is lady Elvis?

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Speaker 2: What that was my best version? Thank you guys, Happy birthday.

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Speaker 2: What's your what's your birthday? Resolution for the coming year

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Speaker 2: for you as you're in this new.

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Speaker 3: Age, live it, love it, learn it right, learn to levitate.

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Speaker 2: Fuck you're on fire there it is.

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Speaker 3: What if they did all of those things.

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Speaker 2: That would be such a waste for a podcast. I'll

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Speaker 2: be like you, guys, I swear to God, she's levitating

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 3: I promise that's all our business, right, and then.

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Speaker 2: Some and then some actually, and it was none of

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Speaker 2: your business.

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Speaker 3: This was the none of your business corner. So should

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Speaker 3: we talk about murder? Are there any shows we didn't watch?

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Speaker 2: Oh, i'll tell you what, tell me what? What's I

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Speaker 2: have done quite a bit of be binge wo as

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Speaker 2: my hair was getting greasy and I have to go

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Speaker 2: to the store with my split p Anderson's hat on.

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Speaker 3: Hell yeah, girl, thanks, I love that little thanks. That's

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Speaker 3: my little fake thanks. I have four pillows and you

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Speaker 3: have one. Yeah? Thanks?

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Speaker 2: Wait was I telling you?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I was digging deep on Netflix because I mean,

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Speaker 2: God bless all of you for still making suggestions and

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Speaker 2: tweeting suggestions at me. But there's people who are tweeting

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Speaker 2: things like have you seen Luther girl? The girl that

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Speaker 2: tweeted at me? Have you seen Luthor.

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Speaker 3: Girl? Yes?

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Speaker 2: Like, yes, I've seen fucking Luth. I haven't You've never

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Speaker 2: seen Luthor?

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Speaker 3: Huh huh. Oh shit, I've seen a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 2: I really, do you care for Idris elbatt All?

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Speaker 3: Yes, of course I care for him deeply.

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Speaker 2: Okay, then you need to get into that. It's an amazing,

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Speaker 2: amazing thing. Well, so I was trying to go a

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Speaker 2: little more obscure. And there is a show called Murder

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Speaker 2: Book that I have.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I like that one. It's so good. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: the one guy right that's on it. Yeah, yeah, No,

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Speaker 3: it's not a murder book. Is what they call a

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Speaker 3: thing about the case? Exactly right. Yes, so it's almost

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Speaker 3: kind of a cold case.

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Speaker 2: Thing, but they just call it something different because it

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Speaker 2: ends up being about cold cases because they go back

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Speaker 2: to the murder.

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Speaker 3: I love the opening sequence of that. Isn't it creepy?

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Speaker 2: Yes? You know why. I think it's creepy because I

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Speaker 2: think it's models. It's all those files.

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Speaker 3: If you're listening, please watch this show.

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Speaker 2: So it's very well done and it tells real good

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Speaker 2: stories or true crimes, cold cases, whatever. But it's just

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Speaker 2: produced really well and they have a lot of the

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Speaker 2: people who really work the case.

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Speaker 3: It reminds me of the detective one that we were

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Speaker 3: talking about on Netflix, but real detectives didn't. Weren't you

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Speaker 3: watching one about the occult that I tried to watch

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Speaker 3: for three minutes and you couldn't get into it? You

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Speaker 3: know why?

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's a cult crime, and I think it's because

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Speaker 2: it's produced. I think a French company produces it because

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Speaker 2: they have a lot of French talking heads that then

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Speaker 2: are dubbed over so you see their mouths moving, but

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Speaker 2: then there's just a voice coming from nowhere that's talking

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Speaker 2: over them.

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Speaker 3: I think it's more than I think occult crimes are stupid.

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Speaker 2: I really do.

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Speaker 3: It's the same thing with like ghost Hunters. It's like, well,

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Speaker 3: the occult isn't a thing. It's crazy people making it up.

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Speaker 3: So I don't care, Okay, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Yes, although I love the occult, I really do.

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Speaker 3: What part of it do you love? The mystery, the outfit,

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Speaker 3: grown up goth like, yeah, convincing crazy people to do

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Speaker 3: insane things at their bidding? What is the bad part

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Speaker 3: of what you just say?

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Speaker 2: It's so good people do it, that's the thing, you know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Okay, I don't know. It's just not

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Speaker 2: for you. I guess.

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Speaker 3: It's almost like it's the same thing too, where it's

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Speaker 3: like there's something I really like that idea if you

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Speaker 3: take the occult part out. So like Jonestown, I think

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Speaker 3: it's cool because it's this bigger than life person was

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Speaker 3: able to convince all these people to do things for

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Speaker 3: him or to do. You know the same thing with

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Speaker 3: Manson's interesting too, because he was able to convince all

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Speaker 3: these people to do things, and it's like, but you

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Speaker 3: lain cold, but I love Satan too, and Satan's real

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Speaker 3: and it's like, no, he's fucking that. And then I

355
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Speaker 3: get struck by a bolt of light. How funny would

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Speaker 3: that be?

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Speaker 2: Smoke just starts coming up from behind the couch.

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Speaker 3: It was so weird to Georgia in her apartment just

359
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Speaker 3: got struck.

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Speaker 2: By lighting, ranting and ranting about how Satan isn't real

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Speaker 2: until he was forced to show up.

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Speaker 3: Mimi got on her hind legs, her eyes rolled back

363
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Speaker 3: in their head, and she started.

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Speaker 2: She was like, I will take you to the door

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Speaker 2: place now.

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Speaker 3: Say it me, me, me wrong.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're so cute. It's so funny because you'd

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00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,720
Speaker 2: picture her with like a girly voice. She actually has

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Speaker 2: a very deep satanic voice.

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Speaker 3: And then Elvis was like, I fucking told you this

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Speaker 3: whole time. I was trying to warn you guys that

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Speaker 3: she sucked.

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Speaker 2: It sounded like you wanted Elvis to have a New

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Speaker 2: York accent. Like I told you, fucking told you guys.

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Speaker 2: This has gotten way off track. Skippers, come back. This

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Speaker 2: was fun now because we were talking about a lot

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Speaker 2: of people actually recommended a cult crimes. That's how I

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Speaker 2: found out about it is because people were recommended. I'm

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Speaker 2: sorry that I shared on the girl that recommended Luther.

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Speaker 2: I adore you for tweeting at me. I didn't mean

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Speaker 2: you tweeted at me because I don't know it.

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Speaker 4: That was right.

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Speaker 3: I just ended up putting a Kia furniture together last

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Speaker 3: night and watching Kimmy Schmidt.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty nice, so good. I love that shin I

386
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,360
Speaker 2: do too. I really love it. It's so goddamn packed full

387
00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,720
Speaker 2: of jokes, so good, brilliantly written. And also it's a

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00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,199
Speaker 2: kind to Bob's Burgers in that when you watch it,

389
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,639
Speaker 2: if you were in a bad, low place, it's up

390
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,360
Speaker 2: up up. It makes you feel happy. I'm so hilarious.

391
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Speaker 2: Titus Andronicus should be the president of the United States

392
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Speaker 2: of America.

393
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Speaker 3: I would be so happy. It would be so much better. Okay,

394
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,919
Speaker 3: so all right, girlfriends who are playing this podcast for

395
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Speaker 3: their boyfriends on a road trip and we were like, no,

396
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 3: you're gonna love this podcast. Come back to us. Wait,

397
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,320
Speaker 3: that was good. I agree, fukay. Boyfriends who were like

398
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Speaker 3: to hit their girlfriends. I was also sexist. What I

399
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 3: just said, this is the best part. Get ready for

400
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 3: the boring part. Yeah, here comes the boring part.

401
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 2: The point of all of it.

402
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 3: Is going first today, it's you, I think, does it mean?

403
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Karen's right, I was right about number seventy two.

404
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 2: I am fucking on this shit.

405
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:51,119
Speaker 3: Well them is Mimi's entire body waits on my story. Okay, sorry,

406
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 3: go ahead.

407
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,400
Speaker 2: She looks so shocked. She's like, how dare you pull

408
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 2: your story out from under my body?

409
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 3: And we're back?

410
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,200
Speaker 2: Did your mom like that Psychology Today subscription?

411
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 3: Did she use it? My passive aggressive Psychology Today subscription?

412
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 2: Just a little, I think, a little.

413
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 3: Hit, Yeah, without understanding it. Have you seen that meme

414
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 3: that's like they show of this video of you being

415
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,119
Speaker 3: this beautiful girl and it's like you're the kind of

416
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,159
Speaker 3: girl they write books about, and then it flashes to

417
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 3: the DSM.

418
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Speaker 2: There's a bunch of those on TikTok that are like,

419
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 2: I'm so excited for my sister today, and then it's

420
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 2: like some horrible thing. It's like it's like slut celebration

421
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 2: or whatever it is.

422
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:40,440
Speaker 3: That's Soliday. Yeah, troll garbage, that rat day. I highly

423
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,919
Speaker 3: recommend Psychology Today. Still though it's like such a it

424
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 3: was such a good magazine to like crack the surface

425
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 3: of those little things that you want to understand about yourself. Yeah,

426
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 3: it's really great for that.

427
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're too scared to go to therapy, that's

428
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 2: also you pick up one of those yeah magazines. Wait,

429
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,959
Speaker 2: do you remember your birthday from twenty seventeen when you

430
00:20:59,000 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 2: turn thirty seven?

431
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not specifically, but I'm guessing because we had

432
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 3: just moved into the pod loft, and I'm the kind

433
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 3: of person who takes advantage of amenities. That it was

434
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 3: in the pool. Like I had a pool party, remember

435
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:11,400
Speaker 3: you did. I was there.

436
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you had a cake with your picture on it.

437
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,199
Speaker 2: There was hot dogs. It was boiling fucking hot. We

438
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 2: were in that side air conditioned room. Yeah. I got

439
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 2: to hang out with your sister a little bit. That's

440
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 2: the first time I ever met her, that's right.

441
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 3: And my nephew was just like a baby, he.

442
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 2: Was a baby on her hip.

443
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

444
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 2: It was a fun party.

445
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 3: It was really good.

446
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 2: That apartment pool was literally jam packed with people.

447
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 3: Yes, like every busy.

448
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 2: It was hilarious how many people were in that pool.

449
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 2: But it was very fun.

450
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had a lot of good birthdays there and

451
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 3: it was fun, like, yeah, going to a public pool

452
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 3: was always fun, people watching and the apartment. I mean,

453
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 3: I still have a key to that apartment building. If

454
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 3: we need to go to the.

455
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,400
Speaker 2: Pool, go in there and go through someone's mail.

456
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 3: Pick up there.

457
00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember the girl on the ustri Alien

458
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 2: game showed the chase.

459
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 3: I totally remember her, because you do. Yeah, it was

460
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,199
Speaker 3: like a Jeopardy type situation. Oh okay, like that's what

461
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 3: it looked like. I totally remember that. And it was like, yeah,

462
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 3: like presented as like Jeopardy would be. And she said that.

463
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 2: We're just so lucky our Australian listeners are the best,

464
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 2: and we're so lucky to have such a strong contingent

465
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 2: down there, and yeah, strong and mighty and vocal and

466
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 2: the kind of people who would do that.

467
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so funny, Like Australia has always been very supportive.

468
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 3: What okay, Yes, yes, it's great. I love it. We

469
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 3: got we gotta go back.

470
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, let's get into Georgia's story about the Interstate killer.

471
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 3: This is the Highway killer or the Interstate killer. Now,

472
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 3: this is a serial killer that I had never heard of.

473
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 3: I've seen this photo before, but I've never heard of him.

474
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 3: And I found the like pretty straightforward story, like he

475
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 3: killed this person, then he killed this person, then he

476
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 3: killed this person. You know, like the story and it

477
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 3: was so devoid of any details that when I started

478
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 3: looking into it and suddenly it's like, no, this was

479
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 3: way fucking bigger than you thought it was. So we're

480
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 3: kind of learning this together. Can I guess which state

481
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 3: it took place in? Yes, Texas, you were wrong, fuck

482
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 3: because it took place in a lot of states. Oh, yes,

483
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 3: I see. You tell me, all right, I will. You

484
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 3: don't want to make it.

485
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 2: I'm not going to guess the whole story. I thought

486
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 2: I should, but now I don't want.

487
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 3: To just guess. Yes, guess Okay. From nineteen eighty two

488
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 3: until nineteen eighty four, a serial killer was killing younga men.

489
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 3: He was dubbed the Interstate Killer because his victims were

490
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 3: mostly random hitchhikers. Twenty to twenty three were dead before

491
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 3: he was caught. The victims were stabbed, and they were

492
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 3: bodies were found in parts of Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, and Wisconsin.

493
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 3: What yeah, So the first really thought I knew this

494
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 3: and I do not know it at all. You know

495
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 3: his face? Okay, this is crazy, Okay. So Jay Reynolds

496
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 3: was the first victim. He was found on March twenty second,

497
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty two. He was found stabbed to death on

498
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 3: the outskirts of Lexington, Kentucky, and all of these okay.

499
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 3: Nine months later, on October third, fourteen year old Delvoyd

500
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 3: Baker was strangled. His body was dumped on the roadside

501
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 3: of North roadside north of Indianapolis. And Stephen Crockett, who

502
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 3: was nineteen on October twenty third, was stabbed thirty two

503
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 3: times for those wins were to the head discarded outside Lowell, Indiana.

504
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 3: So then the killer goes to Illinois and on November

505
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 3: sixth he leaves the body of Robert Foley in a

506
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 3: field northwest of Juliette. Juliette law enforcements is like, oh,

507
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 3: there's a pattern right of assaults on young men, which

508
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 3: back then we know wasn't something that would look very

509
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 3: deep like if you look at any of these interstate

510
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 3: killings of young men, not looked into very deeply. So

511
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 3: stabbing and strangulation are present in every case. So then

512
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 3: on Christmas of nineteen eight eighty two, twenty five year

513
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 3: old John Johnson's body is found dumped in a field

514
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 3: outside Bellshaw, Indiana. Three days later, twenty one year old

515
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 3: John Roach is discovered near Belleville, and then the bound

516
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 3: body of twenty three year old car wash employee of

517
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 3: from Terre Haute. His name is Stephen again Aga and

518
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 3: Egan Stephen Agan. He'd been stabbed to death and discarded

519
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 3: north of Newport, Indiana. So then, on June sixth, nineteen

520
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 3: eighty three, an anonymous caller tells cops that he knows

521
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 3: who the interstate killer is. He says that someone he

522
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: knew had been picked up an attacked by the killer

523
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 3: and had played dead after being assaulted. Ooh, knows who

524
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 3: the person was. The man's name was Larry Eller. Sorry,

525
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 3: Larry Eller, and he's arrested. Can I say his name correctly?

526
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 3: When you steve it that out? Stephen that out? His

527
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 3: name is?

528
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 2: Could you Stephen that outing?

529
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 3: To leave that all in?

530
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 1: Just for that?

531
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 3: So actually leave that holy shit st Steven that out?

532
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 2: Please?

533
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 3: I just ruined this. The man's name is Larry Eller

534
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 3: and he is arrested. Okay, let's talk about Larry Eller.

535
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 3: He's born in Crawfordsville, Indiana, on December twenty first, nineteen

536
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 3: fifty two. By the time he was a teen, his

537
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 3: mother had married and divorced four times. Oh that's too many,

538
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 3: he's too many. He I mean, that's fine for like what.

539
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 2: So like every three years.

540
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to do the y He attends Catholic schools,

541
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 3: has some difficulty. At ten years old, he sent to

542
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 3: the Riley Child Guidance Clinic in Indiana, Indiana, where psychologists

543
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 3: or psychological tests revealed normal and intelligence, but extreme insecurity

544
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 3: and great fear of separation and abandonment.

545
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: You know.

546
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 3: The staff of the clinics said that his home environment

547
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 3: was unstable and chaotic and recommend that he be sent

548
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 3: to live elsewhere. So, at the age of twelve, he

549
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 3: went to live in a Catholic boys home. Oh no,

550
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 3: I know where he stayed for five months. Little did

551
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 3: they know? Little or did they know? It was later

552
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 3: said by a forensic psychiatrist that his history was one

553
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 3: of the worst cases of child abuse he had seen

554
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: in twenty years in the field. Oh no, yeah, so

555
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 3: there's not a lot of details about it, but they

556
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 3: like hint at things, but they don't go too deep

557
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 3: into it, like you can't find details except for one

558
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 3: thing about one of his stepdads would pour hot water

559
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 3: on his head when he was like mad at him.

560
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 3: It's just like that's all you know, and that's horrible.

561
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 3: But there wasn't a lot of other information about it.

562
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 3: So he dropped out of high school in his senior year,

563
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 3: worked odd jobs for a couple of years, and not

564
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 3: long after really leaving high school, he joined the monastery,

565
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 3: and then he quit the monastery. So Larry Eller is

566
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: struggling all his life to cope with what turns out

567
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: to be his homosexuality. So he was simultaneously fast fascinated

568
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 3: and repelled by it. He hated himself for it, but

569
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 3: he couldn't help himself.

570
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,959
Speaker 2: I bet the Catholic Boys Home did a lot of

571
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 2: good for that issue.

572
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 3: I bet you're right. Yeah, that was all sarcasm.

573
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 2: That was total sarcasm.

574
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 3: So he killed his first victim. At around thirty years old,

575
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 3: Larry was arrested for the assault that the anonymous call

576
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 3: Her call Her had called in, but the case was

577
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 3: dropped when Eyler gave the victim money and the victim

578
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 3: was like find him out of here, which is totally understandable.

579
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: You don't want to relieve this whole trauma for no reason. Yeah.

580
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 3: The bodies of young men then continued to be found

581
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: throughout the spring of night three, with most of the

582
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 3: action shifting to Illinois. By July second, the body count

583
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: stood at twelve. Some of the victims had been mutilated

584
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 3: after death, and a few had been disemboweled. Whoa yeah.

585
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 3: The thirteenth victim was Ralph Khalisi, and he was found

586
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 3: August thirty first, dumped in a field near Lake Forest, Illinois.

587
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 3: He had been dead less than twelve hours when he

588
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 3: disappeared and was discovered. He was bound with clothesline and

589
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 3: a surgical tape, stabbed seventeen times, and his pants were

590
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 3: pulled down around his ankles. Then, on October thirtieth, nineteen

591
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 3: eighty three, in Indiana, a highway patrolman spotted a pickup

592
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: truck parked along the Interstate sixty five. Two men were

593
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 3: walking towards a bunch of trees. He stops them. One

594
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 3: was bound, and when the officer went to investigate, he

595
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: identifies Larry Eyler as the owner of the truck.

596
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: So the cop catches him as he's about to lead

597
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 2: someone into the forest already.

598
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 3: To yeah, and the guy says, he told me he'd

599
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 3: give me money, you know, for sex. He asked if

600
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 3: he could tie me up, and we were walking out

601
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 3: towards the field.

602
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: So the guy at that point was actually it's voluntary

603
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: because he thinks, oh, I'm just gonna get paid, yeah,

604
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 2: and I'm fine to do this.

605
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 3: Yes. So then when the officer searches the truck, he

606
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: finds surgical tape, clothesline, and a hunting knife that's stained

607
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 3: with blood. So Eyler is taken in for questioning, and

608
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 3: when the forensic experts check the blood, they match it

609
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,239
Speaker 3: with that of Kalisi, who had been found previously. They

610
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 3: were also able to match the tire tracks left at

611
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 3: the Kalisi site with that of Eiler's truck, and police

612
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 3: were like, this is enough to put him behind bars,

613
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: but they let him go while they continued the investigation. Yeah,

614
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 3: they can't just hold him, no, yeah, So while the

615
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 3: investigation continued in the Calisi murder, Eiler is set free. Then,

616
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: on October fourth, nineteen eighty three, fourteen year old Derek

617
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 3: Hanson is found dismembered near Kenahosha, Wisconsin, Kenosha, thank you sorry,

618
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: fourteen not of young young kids. Eleven days later, a

619
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 3: young John Doe is discovered near Renelsier, Indiana.

620
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: That one I don't know. I only know Kenosha because

621
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: my friend grew up right near it.

622
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 3: Okay, that was a good one, so I've heard him

623
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: say it renslaire Renzilaire.

624
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: Spell it r.

625
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 3: E n s s e l a e r.

626
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: I got lost of the two s's rencilar lair Rensilaire.

627
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 3: Is it bear? I got that one wrong.

628
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: That was on What was it baxer? It looks like

629
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: but it's spelled with an X in the middle, and

630
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: it's like it's pronounced bear last. Well, you're just changing

631
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: the rules of reading.

632
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, then you're actually you're wrong. It's not last week.

633
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,239
Speaker 2: You want to call them mayor and tell them that

634
00:31:59,360 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: he's wrong.

635
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 3: Guess what I am the mayor. I just made myself

636
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 3: the mayor.

637
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: She'll just took off a mask and revealed that she is,

638
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: in fact the mayor.

639
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: That's true. They did it, Okay, Okay. Almost two weeks later,

640
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 3: another John Doe is found near Effingham, Illinois, and two

641
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 3: other victims, Richard Wayne and another unidentified mail were found

642
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 3: dead outside of Indianapolis. Then October eighteenth, nineteen eighty three,

643
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 3: a couple is hunting for mushrooms at an abandoned Indiana farm,

644
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 3: hanging out. They're like, we've found mushrooms here before. Let's

645
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 3: get somewhere, right.

646
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, for either for a solid or to trip out

647
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 2: all day long. Yeah. Whatever this couple is into is

648
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 2: their business.

649
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 3: It's their business. They've been there before. They're not there

650
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: to hurt anyone that are there to find two skulls

651
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 3: lying near a dilapidated barn.

652
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: No, so we can at least assume that they were

653
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: stone on pot.

654
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

655
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: If they're out looking for mushrooms and they're freaking out, man,

656
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: and then they stumble upon like remains, that's awful. Yeah,

657
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: those poor hippies, I know. Then it actually turns out

658
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: that they're also businessmen. Well, turns out there the murderers. No, no,

659
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: so many twists, they're also business men.

660
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 3: Murderers. Oh my god.

661
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 2: Finally that's the that's the area I want to I

662
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: want to go into.

663
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 3: It's all of it.

664
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: I want the murders that happen inside of the Enron building.

665
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 3: Do you think I mean? I mean they got there

666
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 3: has to be at least one.

667
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 2: There has to There were so many people in that building.

668
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, everyone was like on a lot of pressure. Yeah, okay,

669
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 3: they had to either sell or buy or to kill.

670
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: There's business that buy or kill on lifetime. Yeah, oh,

671
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 3: write it down. What about a grocery one called sell

672
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 3: by dead.

673
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: Like a and then it's like so by colon dead dead,

674
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: I love it. Okay, we can keep working on that one.

675
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: But the other one about Enron is perfect. So they

676
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: sold it or any great?

677
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 3: Uh okay, there's an abandoned Indiana farm. They find two

678
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 3: skulls lying together north of the barn off US Highway

679
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 3: forty one, just across the Illinois state line in Newton County.

680
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 3: Way to go Newton County.

681
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, how simple you are to pronounce and.

682
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 3: Read thank you. I'm only doing murders from places that

683
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 3: are just one syllable. It's two syllables, just town something town,

684
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 3: no ex'es, nothing, no doubles's. When police get to the scene,

685
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 3: they then find two other bodies whoa and near that barn.

686
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 3: One of the victims had been decapitated and all had

687
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 3: their pants pulled down and they had been stabbed to death.

688
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 3: Two of the victims were identified. Michael Bauer, which is

689
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 3: my friend's ex boyfriend's name. He was a twenty three

690
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 3: year old pizza deliverer, last scene taking out the trash

691
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 3: at his parents' Portage Park home, which was what a

692
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 3: fucking bummer. Yes, and John Bartlett, who's nineteen, who was

693
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 3: staying with his sister in Chicago after being district from

694
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 3: the Army. I know. By this time, police were like,

695
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 3: this is clearly Larry Eyler. They fucking knew it was him.

696
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 3: Another victim who had survived his attack identified photographs of Isler,

697
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 3: and another survivor came in and was like, yep, happened

698
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 3: to me too, But the investigators wanted him for homicide,

699
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 3: so their circumstantial evidence was still incomplete, so they wouldn't

700
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 3: arrest him.

701
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: Yep.

702
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 3: So Larry Eler at this point is under constant surveillance

703
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: in Chicago, and because of this, he files a suit

704
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 3: against the Lake County Sheriff's Office accusing them of mounting

705
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 3: a quote psychological welfare. Nope, psychological warfare, not welfare. That'd

706
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: be a good thing. Campaign to unhinge his mind, right, Yes,

707
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: that's what they do.

708
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: That's what all the police are trying to do to

709
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 2: this one.

710
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 3: Guy, Yeah, who happens to also be a child blessing murderer. Yes,

711
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 3: his claim for half a million dollars is denied. What Yeah,

712
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 3: he's not the victim in this scenario. Turns on and

713
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 3: as he's in the courtroom, Isler is arrested for Ralph

714
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 3: Kalisi's murder.

715
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: Wow, that's sweet ass timing on those police people's part.

716
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: They were just like, Oh, yeah, you want to go

717
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: in and try to you want to try to sue

718
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: the city.

719
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 3: Okay, go ahead, we'll meet you out here. Don't get

720
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 3: too soaked yet, though, Karen. He's held in lieu of

721
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 3: a million dollars in bond. But in the pre trial

722
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 3: hearing February fifth, nineteen eighty four, all the evidence recovered

723
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 3: from Eler's truck the night they found him with the

724
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 3: guy who was bound gets excluded. Why because the night

725
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,919
Speaker 3: that they found him in the truck, they held him

726
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 3: without arrest in the in the jail for over twelve hours. Oh,

727
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 3: which you're not allowed to do. Yeah, you have to

728
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 3: have a reason to hold him there, that's right, arresting him.

729
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 3: So he's released on bail. I know, it's a real bummer.

730
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 2: Man. It's crazy. It's crazy when it happens when it's

731
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: a serial killer. It's not This isn't a shoplifter. Yeah,

732
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 2: it's not like someone's rights were slightly stepped on. Who was,

733
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 2: you know, like a slum lord or something. Yeah, bad,

734
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,479
Speaker 2: very bad. But this is a person who is out

735
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 2: a predator that's intentionally killing inn and people.

736
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 3: Oh okay, here's what gets Eman Morris is now he

737
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 3: goes on to kill a bunch of people, okay, after this, right,

738
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 3: because they couldn't hold him.

739
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: Right.

740
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 3: So, in May seventh, nineteen eighty four, twenty two year

741
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 3: old David Block was found murdered near Zion, Illinois. His

742
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 3: wounds also was the pattern of everyone else who had

743
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 3: been killed already. Okay, so then August twenty fourth, first,

744
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty four, a janitor of an apartment house in

745
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 3: Chicago goes to take out the garbage and empty the

746
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: garbage can and they're overflowing with gray bags, like nice

747
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 3: gray trash bags. And this guy, his last name is Bala,

748
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 3: He's like, those trash bags aren't my tenants used. My

749
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 3: tenants used cheaper bags. He knew they weren't his tenants

750
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 3: because they were nice trash bags. It was like, my

751
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 3: tenants are pieces of shit. They don't buy this stuff.

752
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 3: They don't buy Hefty, they buy fucking nine acent store shit. Yeah.

753
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 3: So it made him suspicious, and he says, quote, I

754
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 3: was very pissed off a little bit, so I opened

755
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 3: one up, ripped it open. I was very curious. What

756
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 3: the hell am I throwing out? He says, Can you

757
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 3: imagine what his accent sounded like? This is just Chicago, right,

758
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 3: it's a Chicago janitor. Yeah, and the building manager.

759
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, who gets pissed about garbage?

760
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 1: Yeah?

761
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 3: What am I throwing out? I just want to know?

762
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: I just want to know you're putting your garbage in here.

763
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 3: I want to know accent, even what's the accent for

764
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 3: you to Chicago and I'm throwing at the garbage. Well done,

765
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 3: get angry though, and throwing at the fucking garbage here.

766
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 2: Even that out that turned over into triple Chicago.

767
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 3: Yeah that was amazing. It's just like harder accent is angrier. Yep.

768
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 3: So of course he's opening the bags and guess what

769
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 3: a leg slips out to the ground. Yeah. So eight

770
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 3: within eight bags are the remains of fifteen or sixteen.

771
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 3: I can't tell you're old hustler. Danny Bridges, he's like

772
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 3: fifteen or sixteen. He's a child sex worker, hustler. You

773
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 3: know the streets of Chicago back then. Can you imagine

774
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 3: seeing a fifteen year old like work in the.

775
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 2: Streets and stuff in the eighties?

776
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably in the nineties too, Let's be honest, like I.

777
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 2: Can't write up till today.

778
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 3: Well, so, Danny Bridges is a known sex worker by

779
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 3: Chicago Police Special Investigations Investigations Unit. They had been established

780
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 3: a combat child pornography and the sex abuse of children,

781
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 3: and they actually had worked with Danny to get his

782
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 3: story to people who were advocating for teen sex workers.

783
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 3: So there's a couple of channels doing new stories. I

784
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 3: guess there's a video of him talking to them, like

785
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 3: doing news news stories. I can't find them, and I

786
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 3: would fucking love to see when this kid looks so

787
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 3: like he just looks like he knows too much about life.

788
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 2: So he's seen years old.

789
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a freshman in high school. Well, I don't

790
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 3: think he goes to school at this point.

791
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, just the equation of like if he

792
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: had rich parents if he grew up in Evanstone and was,

793
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 2: you know, had a little eyes od sweater on and

794
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 2: was listening to fucking the Specials. Yeah, topsiders, maybe quiet.

795
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 3: So he was warned by the Chicago Special Police to

796
00:40:53,320 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 3: stay away from the s guy from Eler Like, everyone

797
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 3: is like, stay the fuck away from this guy. We're

798
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 3: trying to get him. He's a murderer. Yeah, people, you know,

799
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 3: stay away from Okay. But later one member of the

800
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 3: Special Investigations Unit acknowledged in the book What Cops Know

801
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 3: by Connie Fletcher that the unit encouraged child prostitutes to

802
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 3: have sex with adults in order to make a rest,

803
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 3: as in, they would set them up like a sting operation, right,

804
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 3: which I know is super inflammatory, but it's in this book.

805
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 3: I didn't say it.

806
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: The quote, well, that was basically the practice was they're

807
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 2: using these children as bait so they can get these

808
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 2: bad guys. That's the only way they can actually lure

809
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 2: them out.

810
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:40,439
Speaker 3: Right.

811
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 2: They can't use legal people to do it, even though

812
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 2: it was completely.

813
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 3: But ethically they should be using evidence that's not putting

814
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 3: a child at risk. I mean that's like a yeah,

815
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 3: I guess even if it was like someone who was

816
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 3: of age, and they were working with the police for

817
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 3: some reason. But this is just like so dark and deep.

818
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: Well these days they would just use people who were looking.

819
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 2: It would be a twenty one jump Street. Yeah, sex

820
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 2: worker edition, Yes, so he said.

821
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 3: The quote from the SIU investigator says, our opinion is

822
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 3: that you should go out and find the crime. What

823
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 3: better way to prove and have him What better way

824
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 3: to prove the crime than to get it in progress

825
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 3: or to follow someone home and have him go to

826
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 3: bed with a kid. This is what this guy said

827
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 3: in this book.

828
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, eighty two, eighty four, eighty this was This book

829
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 2: was written in ninety one.

830
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 3: Oh no, I know. So it seems that they acknowledged

831
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 3: that the unit encouraged child sex workers to have sex

832
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: with adults in order to make arrests.

833
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: Right.

834
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 3: So, and it also Danny Bridges was needed to testify

835
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 3: and pending child pornography trials. So this kid was like

836
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 3: deep in it and he gets killed. So in one

837
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 3: of the NBC videos, a reporter asks in nineteen eighty four,

838
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 3: asks Danny Bridges about Eiler, and he says, yeah, I

839
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 3: knew him. He was a real freak. He used to

840
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,280
Speaker 3: come around uptown and hang around. So this kid, Danny Bridges,

841
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 3: knows about Eyler, and the question then is why would

842
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 3: he go home with him if he already knew he

843
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 3: was a creep? So Danny Bridges is going to get

844
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 3: into a car with a guy that he knows as

845
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,240
Speaker 3: a creep? No, unless maybe he was doing it for

846
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 3: the police. Oh, it's kind of the question, right, which

847
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 3: is one.

848
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like literally live bait, like worst case scenario.

849
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 3: And it was never I mean, this is just like

850
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 3: something I found in a bunch of little articles which

851
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 3: I'll name at the end of this. So so perhaps

852
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 3: the whole thing was a sting that went wrong because

853
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 3: Danny did get killed.

854
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so how the fuck does that happen? Like you

855
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: that's so that's the craziest version of that story, right.

856
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 2: It was like like if the cops were using him

857
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: as bait, then what excuse in the world could they

858
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 2: have to then somehow lose track of him, you know

859
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like that would be the only if

860
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 2: you're letting child get into the car with a known

861
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: serial killer. You can't like, oh, whoops, they took a

862
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 2: wrong turn. I mean, like that's insanity.

863
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 3: Well, Here's the other part of this that gets in

864
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 3: here somewhere is that they think that Larry Eyler might

865
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 3: have had an accomplice. Oh, because Danny's fingerprints were never

866
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 3: found on Larry Eyler's car, so maybe someone else picked

867
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 3: him up brought him back there.

868
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: I know.

869
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 3: It's really complicated, okay, But.

870
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 2: Also usually isn't it rare that serial killers would have,

871
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: like have an accomplice or work with someone else? I

872
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: would think so, but who knows. I mean, I'll ask,

873
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 2: would you ask, I'll ask my friend. Oh that's my

874
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 2: friend at the FBI.

875
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 3: Would you ask your accomplice, your serial killer accomplice. Oh,

876
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 3: that's my boss, that's the guy you're working with to

877
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 3: kill people. Okay. So witnesses, you know, after they find

878
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 3: the body parts in the garbage bags, witnesses say they

879
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 3: saw a man a lip next door put the bags

880
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 3: in the trash and he is Isler, who's third one

881
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 3: years old at this time.

882
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 2: So he just took the garbage to the place next

883
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 2: door during the day. He wanted to get caught, or

884
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: he was just really stupid.

885
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 3: So Larry Eiler is convicted of murder, and he of

886
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 3: Danny Bridges and my Lord, she's being real.

887
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 2: She's all over the map.

888
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 3: Okay. He's convicted of murder and aggravated kidnapping of Danny

889
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 3: Bridges in October third, nineteen eighty six, he sentenced to die.

890
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 3: Then in November of nineteen ninety, he's bargaining to save

891
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 3: himself from execution. He agrees to help Indiana authorities solve

892
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 3: a number of his crimes if they would get him

893
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 3: off death row. So he confesses to the killing of

894
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 3: the aigin torture slang and surprise investigators by naming an

895
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 3: alleged accomplish. Accomplish, I keep saying words wrong today. I

896
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,439
Speaker 3: don't know what's going on with me. Oh, I'm having

897
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 3: a stroke. It's all right, accomplice. So fifty three year

898
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 3: old Robert David Little, he's the chairman of the Department

899
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 3: of Library Science at Indiana State University. And this murder

900
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 3: of Agan happens when he's staying with with Larry as

901
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 3: a guest, and according to Eyler, Little took the photos

902
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 3: and masturbated while Larry disemboweled the victim. Oh, so he's like,

903
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 3: let's pick up boys. You do this, I'll do that.

904
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 3: So he's like part of it, and it's kind of

905
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 3: his Like this guy doctor Little is like his sugar daddy.

906
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,399
Speaker 3: He's like paying for his places to live. He used

907
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 3: to be a student of doctor Little and they're like

908
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 3: working together.

909
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 2: What the fuck?

910
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's some real twisted shit that they better fucking

911
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: make a movie out of.

912
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 2: Because he's a he's a professor of library science. So

913
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 2: there's like a real that you could make that as

914
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: super creepy in the Stacks style murder story.

915
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 3: Who would play him? I'm already wondering. I mean, are

916
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 3: you watching far Ago and how amazing? What's his name is?

917
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 3: Ewan McGregor, Oh my god? But the woman I don't

918
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 3: know her name offhand, who's also in the Leftovers.

919
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 2: Yes, she's amazed, she's so good. I have two characters

920
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: are so different. I am loving Mary Stuart something or other,

921
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: not Masterson, Mary Stuart Little.

922
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 3: No, Mary Beth, Mary Beth, Mary McBeth.

923
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 2: It's Mary macbeth from the play.

924
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 3: I am loving. But the young hot girl though, are

925
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 3: you caught up?

926
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 2: Yes, you mean the one she's playing who's also playing the.

927
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 3: Sheriff that's not her or the police chief.

928
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 2: I mean the girl at the short black hair Yeah,

929
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: that's that's the Ewan McGregor's the dumpy brother.

930
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 3: His girlfriend is the same as the chief. Hold the

931
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 3: fuck up? Yes, no, no, wait, I'm the one that gets

932
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 3: to tell you this. I told this to Vince and.

933
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,720
Speaker 2: He's like, no, well, Devince is straight up wrong.

934
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 3: No, yes, Vince. I mean I almost yelled at Stephen Vince, Vince,

935
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 3: we're getting a divorce, stam in, Is this true? Mary

936
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Winstead is that you're thinking of? Yes, she's playing

937
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 3: both characters. It doesn't stay on the main Wikipedia page,

938
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 3: but if you go deeper, we go deeper. Hold on,

939
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 3: hold on, hold on.

940
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 2: Uh, who's the it's her choice. She plays telling you eyeliner, nicky,

941
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 2: nicky swango, nicky swang. Go's the girlfriend that's rock and roll. Yeah,

942
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 2: and she plays her the chief.

943
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 3: She's the chief and Wikipedia is failing me. I am

944
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 3: so mad at you. Stan. You're gonna get Stephen out

945
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 3: of here.

946
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 2: You Everything you have to say from now on is

947
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 2: in a Chicago excil.

948
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 3: No, IMDb Fargo three put this on pause Season three.

949
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 3: If I get this before you see in, you're fucking fire.

950
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 2: Well he's trying to hold a microphone and then do

951
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 2: it with one thing.

952
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 3: Well that's his problem. Okay, all right, okay, here we go. No,

953
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 3: I think you're wrong, No way, Harry kon is chief

954
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 3: what yep, it's too different after Mary Elizabeth something God

955
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 3: I got she thought, so Elizabeth Winstead, Mary Elizabeth Winstead's

956
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 3: only the girlfriend. Mm hmm.

957
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 2: I've had so many conversations about how amazing.

958
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 3: Including with me because I was like, uh, huh, I

959
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 3: agreed with you a couple weeks ago.

960
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 2: They looked so much alike. I asked Vince it was

961
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 2: the same person too, because I agree. We always have

962
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:31,240
Speaker 2: to believe Vince, now, why Yeah, that's he's never wrong.

963
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 3: He's never wrong. Never.

964
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: He also doesn't say shit like I do, where I'm like, no,

965
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 2: I'm positive, and I'm like, oh, you're right, I'm wrong.

966
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 3: I do that shit all this. I listen, look, look

967
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 3: and listen. You said that she plays two characters, and

968
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:46,879
Speaker 3: I didn't want to be like, I think you're wrong,

969
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 3: so I was.

970
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 2: Like, oh, yeah, oh, you always got to say if

971
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 2: you think I'm wrong. It happens a lot.

972
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 3: Have you tried telling yourself telling you that you think

973
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 3: you're wrong?

974
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 2: Uh, if you're confirmed, like.

975
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 3: Arguing, no, no, no, I just think I don't like. I

976
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 3: would rather that I'm wrong, because I usually am. Okay,

977
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 3: what was that thing I said the other day the

978
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 3: cockles of your heart? Hackles? I said cockles?

979
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, you said something about getting I don't want

980
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,800
Speaker 2: to get. You said something something about the I said.

981
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 3: I don't want like.

982
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 2: You said something about the cock I don't want to

983
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: get you cockles up right? And but it was hackles.

984
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 3: This is why I don't argue when people tell me

985
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 3: a thing.

986
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 2: I know, but I feel like, okay, well. I also

987
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: when I'm positive about something, it almost changes the fact

988
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 2: I get so positive. I think you we're exactly the

989
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 2: same way. I believe the way you do the same thing.

990
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, don't look it up.

991
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, let's wait until you see this that I'm right.

992
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 2: I don't under But here's the thing. This happens all

993
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 2: the time in casting. Why are you casting two women

994
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 2: who look eggs? All I thought was that the that

995
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 2: the that the police chief woman just had less eyeliner

996
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 2: and a different haircut. And I'm like, this is brilliant

997
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 2: that they're making her look a little bit older simply

998
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 2: by not.

999
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 3: Because the brothers are the same person, So why couldn't

1000
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 3: this be that too? I thought it was.

1001
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: I thought was I thought it was like a thief.

1002
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 3: I did two. I think I stopped thinking that would

1003
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 3: have been said no, I would have doubled down. And

1004
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 3: I think she is killing it. So who do you

1005
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 3: think is killing it?

1006
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 2: Then?

1007
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 3: The Chief? I love the Chief. I think now the girlfriend,

1008
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 3: Mary Elizabeth is fucking it's suddenly about her, yes, and

1009
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 3: I fucking am like. At first I was like, who, Like,

1010
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 3: what's this peripheral character? And now it's about her and

1011
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 3: I fucking love her. Yeah, she's I think. I like

1012
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 3: them both a lot. But I did too, but I wasn't.

1013
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 3: I knew that the other Carrie was good in the Leftovers,

1014
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 3: so I wasn't worried about that. But this chick, it's awesome.

1015
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 2: I mean, I just think she's now I think she's bad.

1016
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding. I just thought that it.

1017
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 2: Was this amazing job of when you are the kind

1018
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 2: of girl that dresses rock and roll like the like

1019
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,760
Speaker 2: the hot girlfriend, you have a kind of aura about

1020
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 2: you that looks like that, and when you are a

1021
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 2: woman that's just trying to fucking get some shit done

1022
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,919
Speaker 2: and have people listen to you, you look like Carrie Kum,

1023
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,240
Speaker 2: which is kind of an all business hair haircut, and

1024
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 2: not a lot of makeup and not a lot of that,

1025
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 2: and a lot of just like I'm not trying to

1026
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 2: do anything. And it seems like this perfect presentation of

1027
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:31,720
Speaker 2: like when what you do with your womanly attractiveness based

1028
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 2: on the job you have or based on why you're

1029
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 2: trying to get done with your job.

1030
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 3: And it's this thing too of like you can either

1031
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 3: use the fact that you're hot or pretty or you cannot.

1032
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:43,919
Speaker 3: But the one way isn't better than the other.

1033
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 2: Exactly right, They're both. It's up to you in both ways,

1034
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 2: and they're both very effective. I just loved that presentation.

1035
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 2: I'm like, I was giving it so much fucking credit.

1036
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 3: Do you need to call it a hole? People you're

1037
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 3: at parties.

1038
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 2: They're so mad right now of like me holding forth

1039
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 2: on what it means Philip, you know, philosophically and representationally

1040
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 2: of the woman's role or whatever.

1041
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 3: I wonder how many people like an actress have argued

1042
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 3: your point once they believed you at parties or whatever.

1043
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 2: Let's not act like I go to a bunch of parties.

1044
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 2: I haven't talked to anybody but the two of you

1045
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 2: in like months.

1046
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 3: Those Hollywood parties and our therapist. Oh that's right. I

1047
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 3: just tried to tell our therapist. She has been in

1048
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:31,320
Speaker 3: Oh she was in Scott Pilgrim. Okay, she's cute.

1049
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 2: Okay, a rock and roll girl was the girlfriend in

1050
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 2: Scott Pilgrim. Yeah, yes, she's great.

1051
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 3: And she was in ten Cloverfield Lane. She's great, man, Okay,

1052
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 3: she's been in some cool shit.

1053
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 2: What about Carrie coun she's been She's from the leftovers.

1054
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 3: She's from the leftovers. Is not enough for it?

1055
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 2: Is?

1056
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 3: Let's see here she is. Should we be doing more

1057
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 3: Wikipedia or should you finish? Oh? I'm not done? Fuck

1058
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 3: I thought it was done. Fuck god, damn it. I

1059
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 3: don't want to keep going. Listen. He's a fucking asshole.

1060
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 3: He Diedabates.

1061
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 2: Oh god, no, literally he dies Avates. Yeah.

1062
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 3: Sorry, that was the end of the fucking story. Okay,

1063
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 3: I'm almost done. He has a guy who does it

1064
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 3: with him. That's the darkest. I feel like that is

1065
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 3: the darkest.

1066
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 2: That's probably why we just took a serious left turn,

1067
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 2: Like we just touched into the darkest area possible, which

1068
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:31,479
Speaker 2: is serial A team of serial killer situation. Yeah fuck

1069
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 2: that also against children, totally yeah.

1070
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 3: Totally, so based on his confession, Larry Eler receives a

1071
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,399
Speaker 3: sixty year prison sentence on top of what he's been

1072
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 3: going on through. In return, he agrees to testify against

1073
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 3: doctor Little, who's arrested on the murder charges and in

1074
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 3: the absence of physical evidence to support Eyler's statement, Little

1075
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 3: is acquitted of all charges in nineteen ninety one. So okay, later,

1076
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:02,879
Speaker 3: Larry Eyler's attorney, he finds out that doctor Little had

1077
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 3: been paying for Larry Eler's defense. So Larry's testifying against

1078
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 3: doctor Little for the prosecution but has a financial relationship

1079
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 3: with the prosecution's lead witness and illegal duty to his

1080
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 3: client and it's all crazy fucked up, So that shouldn't

1081
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 3: have happened, however, Okay, back in Lnoy's.

1082
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:23,879
Speaker 2: But it happened anyway, basically did, but they.

1083
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 3: Didn't figure that out until Okay, four time letter back Illinois,

1084
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 3: Larry's Larry offers a clear twenty murders in exchange for

1085
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 3: commutation of his sentence to life imprisonment in the state.

1086
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 3: Authorities say no, And then I wrote Dix because there

1087
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:42,479
Speaker 3: were more murders going on after Larry Isler's was put

1088
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 3: into prison that were very similar to what was going

1089
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 3: on when he was killing people.

1090
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 2: Was it doctor Library Little?

1091
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 3: It was someone else who worked in a similar manner.

1092
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,760
Speaker 3: And Larry Elers is like, Yo, I'll tell you everything

1093
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 3: and I'll put all of this to bed if you

1094
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 3: just don't kill me. And this guy who is like

1095
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 3: this was the new something after attorney thank you, and

1096
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 3: he was like, no, we put him. Jack O'Malley, he

1097
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 3: was the county state attorney. He could keep him, keep

1098
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 3: Eyler and jail of the rest of his life, solve

1099
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 3: more than twenty old murders, help bring to justice a

1100
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 3: killer or killer still in the loose end, save tach payers,

1101
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 3: taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars in appeal costs. But

1102
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 3: good old Jack O'Malley said, a bird in the hand

1103
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 3: is better than twenty in the bush. Literally said that.

1104
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 3: So he said no.

1105
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 2: So he was basically saying, killing this one guy is

1106
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 2: worth it, Okay, all right, okay.

1107
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,240
Speaker 3: So Larry Eiler dies of aids on March sixth, nineteen

1108
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 3: ninty four to forty one years old. Kathleen Zelner handles

1109
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 3: Eyler's appeals, she describes the killings. He tells her about

1110
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 3: all the killings over the last three years before he dies,

1111
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 3: and she convinces him. She convinces him to let her

1112
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 3: release his confession after his death, so she released a

1113
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 3: list of twenty one killings to which she said Eiler

1114
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 3: confessed and that he said he had an accomplice for

1115
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 3: four of the killings. He took a polygraph text that

1116
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 3: supported all of these things. So it's all true. Maybe

1117
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 3: probably pretty so. I don't know if you recognize the

1118
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 3: name Kathleen Zelner. Is it the makeup products that like,

1119
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 3: make your Zelner for don't get a case of the mondays?

1120
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 3: Uh will exonerate your pores? I don't know. Is that

1121
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 3: what you do trying to think of stuff?

1122
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 2: You're going on my riff? I thought you were giving

1123
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 2: me clues.

1124
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 3: Oh she really.

1125
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 4: Could be No, no, no, oh my god, I was

1126
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 4: just like, what, Oh should I know that puzzles?

1127
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 3: Oh no no, I was going off your riff badly.

1128
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 3: You couldn't tell them because they were very bad.

1129
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 2: So they will exonerate your pores. I disagree. I think

1130
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: you did great.

1131
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I'm honored you're saying next is

1132
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 3: my birthday?

1133
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 2: No I'm not. No, I never do that.

1134
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 3: Okay. One, Miss Kathleen Zelner, who, by the way, if

1135
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 3: this had been turned into a movie like it was

1136
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 3: supposed to call Privileged Information, would have been played by

1137
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:11,479
Speaker 3: Jessica Biel is also now Steve Avery's new appella attorney from.

1138
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 2: Wisconsin, The Making a Murderer.

1139
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: Mm.

1140
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 2: So she is a defense attorney.

1141
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 3: She's a she's on appeals, she's the appeals attorney.

1142
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 2: Once you get convicted, she comes in and is like,

1143
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 2: let's see if we can turn this around.

1144
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 3: So she that's what she did for him in that

1145
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 3: she found out that that his whole defense had been

1146
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 3: paid for by the person he ended up fingering, oh,

1147
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 3: doctor little. So she was like, what the fuck. So

1148
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 3: she basically she goes through everything from the trial and

1149
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 3: is like, here's what this fucked up. Here's what that

1150
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 3: fucked up. We're going to go back and appeal all

1151
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 3: of this based on this, not based on even whether

1152
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 3: or not you did it or based on you know,

1153
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 3: it's purely legal.

1154
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, the problem.

1155
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,919
Speaker 3: Guy, turn over enough this evidence they were supposed to get.

1156
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 2: Did this go by the book?

1157
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: Right?

1158
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 3: Which might or not mean that the guy is guilty,

1159
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 3: but it doesn't matter because it's cross shoe pross up, yeah,

1160
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 3: which is great. Good for her, all right.

1161
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 2: That's what I'm got, George, is like I'm being forced

1162
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 2: to say this.

1163
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I mean that though. It's like, you know,

1164
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 3: it's the thing that the fucking guy Brenham says to

1165
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 3: us too, which is like, it doesn't matter. You have

1166
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 3: to give them a good fight, right, which is like no,

1167
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 3: but I'm in jail forever, all right. So a bunch

1168
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 3: of eleven bodies after his arrest, eleven bodies turn up

1169
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 3: in rural counties in Ohio and Indiana, all the same age,

1170
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 3: ligature marks, all this shit. And then so that's it.

1171
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 2: Where's doctor fucking Little? Is he the one doing it?

1172
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 3: I don't you can't find information about this shit.

1173
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 2: Oh.

1174
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 3: I want to give a shout out to the article

1175
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 3: really that sums up everything really well was called the

1176
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 3: Return of Larry Eyler from the Chicago Reader in nineteen

1177
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 3: ninety two, and it's written by John Conroy and it

1178
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 3: really is the best article you can read it. And

1179
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 3: then there's a couple other ones here and there that

1180
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 3: gives some information but it's so hard to find anything right.

1181
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 2: But this return of Larry Eyler, I want to read that.

1182
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 2: It's it's just.

1183
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 3: Such a fucked up I hope I told that well enough,

1184
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 3: and I know I was like, I didn't say words correctly.

1185
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's just how I do things.

1186
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 2: But hey, it's your birthday, it's my birthday. No, the

1187
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 2: mouth is dry, amazing, Well, now I just want to

1188
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 2: Now I'm so mad and want to know it. Also,

1189
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 2: that sounds like such a dumb political stance of yeah,

1190
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 2: we are going to kill him because we've got the

1191
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 2: chance to kill him and he deserves to be killed,

1192
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 2: so we're going to kill him.

1193
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 3: Well, this guy was also like it was his first

1194
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 3: death penalty that he had gotten and they were all

1195
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 3: proud of that, so he didn't want to give it up.

1196
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 3: And so all these parents whose kids had disappeared and

1197
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:52,439
Speaker 3: they didn't know where they were, and people who thought

1198
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 3: it was going to keep happening, were like, give this

1199
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 3: guy life in prison. He's not going to get out,

1200
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 3: and this chit Kathy Katherine's owner was also like because

1201
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:03,439
Speaker 3: the guy was like, well what if he then gets

1202
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 3: out in thirty years because we took the death penalty away,

1203
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 3: and she like proved that he wouldn't because of these,

1204
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 3: because of this other, this other thing he got found

1205
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 3: guilty of. So it's never gonna happen anyway, isn't this

1206
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 3: guy just like he.

1207
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 2: Admitting to twenty murderers and you give him a life

1208
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 2: sentence he won't get out, and then twenty life sentences

1209
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 2: with no parole he wouldn't have. Oh that's fucking heavy.

1210
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's just it's just fucking sad and crazy

1211
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 3: that we've never heard. It's just another one of those like,

1212
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,919
Speaker 3: you know, a disenfranchised group of people are getting killed,

1213
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 3: so nobody cares, and it's not a big deal to anyone,

1214
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 3: right except their families, So why prosecute hard or what?

1215
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 4: You know?

1216
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and no, it's nothing against the cops. And actually

1217
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 3: there's one John Doe that one of the counties had.

1218
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 3: They could never find out who it was, so they

1219
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,440
Speaker 3: all the cops. They're paid for a funeral for him.

1220
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 3: Oh and like and like went to the funeral and

1221
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 3: visit the grave and got him a headstone. And it's like,

1222
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 3: it's not it's just it's just shitty. It's so shitty.

1223
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such hard work and that's so shitty.

1224
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1225
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 2: Well, and you know this made me think of and

1226
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 2: just to pull out bigger picture thing because we even

1227
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 2: since I was in high school, being in high school

1228
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 2: in the eighties, the difference the way people talk about

1229
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 2: being gay, people treat gay people. It is exactly the

1230
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 2: opposite of how when I was a teenager, and so

1231
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 2: I think for younger people don't appreciate it as much.

1232
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 2: But this is such a great example of people going like,

1233
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 2: h you know, men marrying men or women marrying women,

1234
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 2: what's next or whatever, all that kind of shit. It's

1235
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 2: such a like when you look at how when you

1236
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 2: repress and oppress people and tell them that they can't

1237
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 2: be who they are, the kind of things, the kind

1238
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 2: of psychological damage that that causes, and what that can

1239
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 2: turn into in certain people. Obviously not always because but

1240
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 2: the idea of that that people back then, not that

1241
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 2: long ago, were absolutely forced to not only deny who

1242
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 2: they were, but some were made to despise who they

1243
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 2: were to the point of having to kill It's such

1244
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 2: a fucking heavy concept.

1245
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,919
Speaker 3: Well, what's crazy too is if like for the victim side,

1246
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 3: it's also that thing of like when you make fun

1247
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 3: of people for that thing, and you make them less

1248
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 3: human unless you identify with them less as a human being.

1249
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 3: And so when these horrible things happen to them, you

1250
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,439
Speaker 3: can't have empathy for them because you don't think they're

1251
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 3: normal human beings.

1252
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 2: Right.

1253
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 3: And the other thing I was going to say was

1254
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 3: something really poignant.

1255
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 2: About well that I mean on top of that, which

1256
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 2: is an incredibly poignant thing to say. What you just

1257
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 2: said is kind of it almost like that argument that

1258
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 2: was so popular online five years ago or whatever, of

1259
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 2: like everything's funny, rape is funny, anything is funny. It

1260
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 2: like maybe in your small group of friends that could

1261
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 2: be true to you and the people who are just

1262
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 2: like you. Then then the larger scheme of things, that's

1263
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 2: exactly right. It's it's dehumanizing to people, and it's uh,

1264
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 2: and it's dehumanizing to situations where it's like, but that's

1265
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 2: actually not the case for everyone. And this it feels

1266
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 2: like these days, the attempts almost subconscious societal you know,

1267
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 2: as a human race, we're just trying to be more

1268
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 2: connected and more empathetic to each other, no matter who

1269
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 2: that other person is. And so if that person isn't

1270
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 2: like you, you might not laugh at those same jokes

1271
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 2: as you. Of course, you can still tell whatever fucking

1272
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 2: jokes you want, but the idea is, are you going

1273
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 2: to make a human connection or not, or are you

1274
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 2: going to cancel that connection forever because you so value

1275
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 2: your momentary need to say whatever the fuck you want.

1276
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 3: And I think more and more people are being what

1277
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 3: the fuck is wrong with you that you need to

1278
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 3: make fun of these people? And I think what's really

1279
01:04:57,840 --> 01:04:59,919
Speaker 3: cool nowadays too, is like we're so much more willing

1280
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 3: to call people out on a shit. Yeah, like why

1281
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 3: are you making a rape joke? And when you do

1282
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 3: make a rape joke with five of your friends, you

1283
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 3: don't know if one of them has been raped, and

1284
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 3: so they're never going to come forward because you're making

1285
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 3: it a joke. And I think that people are more

1286
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 3: willing to call other people out on it now, And

1287
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 3: because there's a psychological thing with people who can make

1288
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 3: jokes about that, that there's something fucking wrong with them.

1289
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 3: One hundred percent.

1290
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 2: I think that's really what it's turning into, is as

1291
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 2: opposed to talking about this as a need or a

1292
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 2: rite or anything like that, it's just like, well, actually,

1293
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 2: it's just a reflection on you, which is really what it.

1294
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 2: I mean, it's all of these it's a very complex thing.

1295
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 2: It's all of these things at once. But ultimately, like

1296
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 2: for me as a person, it just makes me think

1297
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 2: of you as a person less, definitely less. I just

1298
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 2: don't talk about that I think of you less, but

1299
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 2: I absolutely think are you less in the same way

1300
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 2: that there are a lot of people who didn't grow

1301
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 2: up while AIDS was a thing. I can remember the

1302
01:05:56,280 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 2: news report when they first reported AIDS as an issue

1303
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 2: in the Bay Area. I remember it. I remember how

1304
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 2: my parents reacted. I remember the moment. I think I

1305
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 2: was like eleven and growing up under this unbelievably scary

1306
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 2: dark thing of AIDS, and then having my friend Ken Mason,

1307
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 2: who is one of my closest friends from sixth grade

1308
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:21,439
Speaker 2: through high school, died when he was twenty two years

1309
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 2: old because he was closeted and because he got AIDS

1310
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 2: two or twenty three. It was sorry, it was very

1311
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 2: very sad. But like when people make AIDS jokes, I

1312
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 2: don't go, never make that joke again or whatever. I

1313
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 2: just go, oh, you don't get it. It's like you

1314
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 2: don't get but also that you don't get it. It's

1315
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 2: almost like proclaiming your ignorance of lack of empathy, but

1316
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 2: also just that you haven't really been through life. There

1317
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 2: much you haven't lived. You're probably kind of spoiled. Both

1318
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 2: your parents were probably still alive. You know what I mean.

1319
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 2: When you decide that you get to make whatever race joke,

1320
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 2: you get to say the N word, you all this

1321
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 2: shit that you think you can do just reflects on you.

1322
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 2: It's just about the quality of your character totally. Why

1323
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 2: am I still talking? Because that's important.

1324
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 3: Step and Stephen, all that out. Please put Stephen it out.

1325
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 3: Let's all make this in minisoda.

1326
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 2: Stephen.

1327
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 3: That's gonna be our like break music.

1328
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 2: Stephen, it won't just stay it out, always go up

1329
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:26,919
Speaker 2: at the end.

1330
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 3: It out. Okay, we're back.

1331
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 2: Do you have updates?

1332
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 3: I do? Actually. In April twenty twenty one, one of

1333
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,440
Speaker 3: the four victims discovered near an abandoned farmhouse in Lake Village,

1334
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 3: Indiana in October of eighty three, was identified using DNA

1335
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 3: and genetic genealogy as John Brandenburg Junior. He was nineteen

1336
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 3: and originally from Kentucky, and he went missing from Chicago.

1337
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 3: Then in December twenty twenty one, Another victor, William Lewis

1338
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 3: of Peru, Indiana, was identified as a victim discovered in

1339
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 3: Jasper County, Indiana in October of eighty three. He was

1340
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 3: also just nineteen that. In July of twenty twenty three,

1341
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 3: Keith Bibbs, another one of the four Lake Village victims,

1342
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 3: was identified. He was the last of the four to

1343
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 3: be identified. He was from Chicago and he was sixteen

1344
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 3: years old. National Geographic created a docu series which I

1345
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 3: have to check out, called Naming the Dead, and the

1346
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 3: episode The Hitchhiker focuses on law enforcement efforts in DNA

1347
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 3: DOE project identifying two of Eiler's victims. That aired just

1348
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:41,720
Speaker 3: recently in August twenty twenty five, So go check that out.

1349
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 3: Naming the Dead is what it's called.

1350
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds good.

1351
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,879
Speaker 3: It's so great that we're finally able to put names

1352
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,800
Speaker 3: to these children. I mean they're teenagers still.

1353
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1354
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I hope that this just keeps unraveling

1355
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 3: and you know, yeah, all right, let's do your story.

1356
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 3: This is when I've just never forgotten it. Maybe it's

1357
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:05,720
Speaker 3: because I live near Glendale, but it's just so disturbing,

1358
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 3: so wild, you know, let's listen to Karen's story about

1359
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 3: the pillow pyro. All right, Le'm gonna tell that story

1360
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 3: one more time, my murder story one more time, just

1361
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 3: to get it right right? And did I make a

1362
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 3: lot of mistakes in the beginning of that? Can I

1363
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 3: redo it? Stephen? Not right now?

1364
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 2: But he has all your fixes in there.

1365
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 3: No, but like the words I miss said, I'm just

1366
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:36,719
Speaker 3: gonna put Natalie in between. Oh no, Natalie, I'm sorry.

1367
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 3: Do you want me to do mine? Yeah? Always and forever.

1368
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 2: Okay, here's mine.

1369
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 3: This I got.

1370
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 2: I was watching forensic files as we all. I think,

1371
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 2: I swear to God. I think someone just very recently

1372
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 2: tweeted at me, do you watch forensic files?

1373
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 3: I'm not kidding Karen and the ansact about this.

1374
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 2: The answer is yes, if there's a policeman in it,

1375
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 2: I've at least watched it one time.

1376
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 3: That's the rule.

1377
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 2: Also, people are recommending BBC things we don't have it yet.

1378
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 2: Don't ask me if it's the brand New's Okay, take

1379
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:18,599
Speaker 2: this out this, I've gone too far. Okay, I'm watching

1380
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 2: forensic files and I have a recovered memory of the

1381
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 2: best forensic files I've ever seen. And I'm like how

1382
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,799
Speaker 2: come I haven't done this one before? That's insane.

1383
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 4: I love.

1384
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:29,599
Speaker 3: I love when that happens, right, and you're like, oh

1385
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:31,679
Speaker 3: my god, why haven't I And it's like a big

1386
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 3: so this.

1387
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:36,040
Speaker 2: When I watched this on Forensic Files the first time,

1388
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 2: I remember standing up and going like no way or something.

1389
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 2: It was one of those.

1390
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 3: So I was like so excited. I got to look

1391
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:43,840
Speaker 3: this up, gotta.

1392
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 2: Find my info. And it is insane and it's an

1393
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 2: la one.

1394
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 3: I want everyone to know that the word insane, by

1395
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 3: Karen's hand gestures was written in lights. You did the

1396
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 3: written in lights? A crop of it was like a

1397
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 3: Liza Minelli Broadway move. It was like, if yeah, like

1398
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:06,639
Speaker 3: a cartoon, then could put up sparkly lights clean that'said insane.

1399
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 3: That's said insane was gorgeous.

1400
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is the pillow Pyro.

1401
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 3: I love it.

1402
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:19,640
Speaker 2: I read right, so you may remember this. I don't know,

1403
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 2: you're a little too young. Throughout the eighties and southern California,

1404
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 2: there was a spate of arson fires that killed families.

1405
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 2: It cost tens of millions of dollars, went on for

1406
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 2: years and baffled authorities, and sometimes arson fires were being

1407
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:42,200
Speaker 2: set up to three times a day. Holy shit in

1408
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:44,560
Speaker 2: the Southland, as they like to call it on the

1409
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 2: news here in Los Angeles.

1410
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 3: One TV show that got canceled in Oh.

1411
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 2: Southland, The Best starring Sean Hattisey. Okay, so all of

1412
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 2: this is I'm retelling you of forensic Files. That's one

1413
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:00,040
Speaker 2: of my favorites. That's where I get the chronologies, some

1414
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 2: of the wording whatever. But also within that forensic files

1415
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 2: they talked to. One of the talking heads is a

1416
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 2: famous crime writer and he was also ex LAPD detective.

1417
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 2: He was a detective for the LAPD for twenty years.

1418
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 2: His name is Joseph Wambaugh, and he wrote a book

1419
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:19,800
Speaker 2: called fire Lover. So if you really want like the

1420
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:22,720
Speaker 2: Deep Down Story, which I would highly recommend, I think

1421
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 2: I want to read this book. After I got those

1422
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:27,080
Speaker 2: two monsters.

1423
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 3: I'm listening to it. That's kind of my thing that

1424
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:30,560
Speaker 3: I was happy about this week. I know it's not, no,

1425
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 3: it's not, but yes, it's.

1426
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:33,760
Speaker 2: Not everything else, but you have been listening to you

1427
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:36,719
Speaker 2: started listening, so like all around the house, I can't stop.

1428
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:38,599
Speaker 3: I forgot to mention this in the beginning.

1429
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:40,679
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll have to talk about it after Okay, okay

1430
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:46,599
Speaker 2: about fire Lover's next because this story is so fucking crazy. Okay,

1431
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 2: But as I wrote, I'm taking the chronology and the

1432
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:55,559
Speaker 2: shape of the story from the forensic file. Okay, okay,

1433
01:12:55,680 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 2: So this episode starts, and so I shall start on

1434
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:05,640
Speaker 2: October tenth, nineteen eighty four, because it's very good storytelling.

1435
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 2: Just started on the day that the San Diego Padres

1436
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 2: are playing the Detroit Tigers in the World Series.

1437
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 3: Oh, everyone remembers that, Actually that Vince currumbers exactly where I'm.

1438
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 2: Sure he does, right, Troit boy, and I believe they

1439
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 2: were playing in San Diego. So or maybe not.

1440
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 3: No, no, no, oh, that's fence.

1441
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, Steven, Steven Stephen. Okay, So it starts

1442
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 2: on October tenth, nineteen eighty four. The San Diego Padres

1443
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 2: are playing the Detroit Tigers in the World Series. And

1444
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 2: there's a hardware store in South Pasadena called Olie's. I

1445
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:40,320
Speaker 2: don't know if you remember that chain of hardware stores.

1446
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 2: It's like, you know it sands No, it's basically like

1447
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 2: old school home depot. So they interview a guy named

1448
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 2: Jim Obdam who worked there in high school, and he's

1449
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 2: talking about how he notices nobody's there because the World

1450
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:57,200
Speaker 2: Series and the Padres are playing in the World Series,

1451
01:13:57,240 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 2: so every there's no business except for like a few

1452
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:03,640
Speaker 2: people scattered around the store. So he hears an emergency

1453
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 2: message over the PA and then the fire alarm starts

1454
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:10,639
Speaker 2: going off, and so he looks. He goes out into

1455
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 2: like the aisle and looks down and there's a huge

1456
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:15,640
Speaker 2: plume of smoke coming from like the back of the

1457
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 2: store whatever, And so he turns and he starts helping

1458
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 2: the few customers that are there to try to get

1459
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 2: them out the fire exit doors, and as they're trying

1460
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:27,840
Speaker 2: to walk toward it, it's just becomes a wall of

1461
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:32,680
Speaker 2: flames and the entire store is like up and fully engulfed,

1462
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 2: like immediately. He said, it happened so fast. He got

1463
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 2: out of the store, but he had really bad burns

1464
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 2: on one arm. He said, he touched his arm and

1465
01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 2: skin just came off.

1466
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 3: No, no, yes, So he gets out, but four people

1467
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 3: trapped in and killed in that fire.

1468
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 2: Two customers, grandmother ate a Deal and her two year

1469
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 2: old grandson, Matthew Troudel, And then two employees, seventeen year

1470
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:07,479
Speaker 2: old Jamie Setina and twenty six year old Carolyn Krause.

1471
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:09,400
Speaker 3: They all died in that fire.

1472
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 2: My god. So the official explanation was that it was

1473
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:18,280
Speaker 2: an electrical fire, but the arson investigator from the Glendale

1474
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:20,640
Speaker 2: Fire Department was on the scene. He believed it was

1475
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 2: arson right off the bat. He took pictures, he documented

1476
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 2: the whole scene. When they were saying we think it's

1477
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 2: an electrical fire, he was arguing with them. So then

1478
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 2: January nineteen eighty seven, there's another fire at a different

1479
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:43,600
Speaker 2: Olie's hardware store. And this fire so this is like

1480
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:47,599
Speaker 2: three years later. Okay, tune and a half three years later.

1481
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:51,479
Speaker 2: This one is set in the foam padding section.

1482
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 3: Oh god. Yeah.

1483
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 2: And then the same day, ninety miles away in Bakersfield,

1484
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:03,040
Speaker 2: there's a fire at a craft mart store. And in

1485
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:08,759
Speaker 2: the Bakersfield Fire Captain Marvin Casey arrives at the scene

1486
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:10,439
Speaker 2: at that fire and.

1487
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:14,080
Speaker 3: He finds in a bin of dry.

1488
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 2: Flowers a slow burning and sundiary device which was three

1489
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 2: matches wrapped around a lit cigarette with binder paper rubber

1490
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 2: banded around the outside of all of it and then

1491
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 2: put into the dry flowers.

1492
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:33,120
Speaker 3: So when the cigarette gets down to the butt, it

1493
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:34,919
Speaker 3: lights the matches on fire.

1494
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 2: Yep, and then the matches light the paper and it's

1495
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 2: the whole thing is just this very rudimentary slow burning

1496
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 2: in Sandia.

1497
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 3: You would never that, you would never look like notice

1498
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 3: look for right exactly. I'm so sorry Elvis is eating

1499
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:54,400
Speaker 3: the French frise on the heller. Sorry, he's gonna vomit

1500
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:55,760
Speaker 3: those on the bed in the middle of the night.

1501
01:16:55,800 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 3: If those are not thank you, Steven. I think we

1502
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 3: should leave that in.

1503
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:06,000
Speaker 2: So I don't know though, because you're like, I'm so

1504
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:09,560
Speaker 2: sorry Elvis is e like it's Stephen, go get that.

1505
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:16,719
Speaker 3: I'm getting. I don't want to be rude. Shorge's feet

1506
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:17,639
Speaker 3: or above her head.

1507
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:18,799
Speaker 2: She's so reclined.

1508
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 3: Oh, I have a pill of ta okay. Sorry, no, no, okay.

1509
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:27,519
Speaker 2: So they find that and send your advice in the

1510
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:31,680
Speaker 2: in the dried flowers, Marvin Casey does, and then on

1511
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 2: the binder paper he finds a fingerprint. So he sends

1512
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 2: that off to the lab and they're like, we have

1513
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 2: to get that fingerprint. But is the eighties, remember, so

1514
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:46,519
Speaker 2: everything's like dear xerox. It's the xerox version of everything.

1515
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:52,719
Speaker 2: Everything's a fax machine, a carbon machine of a carbon coffee.

1516
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like Ditto's okay.

1517
01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:00,679
Speaker 2: So while Marvin Casey is at this scene that fire

1518
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 2: the craft Smart store, he hears on the radio a

1519
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 2: second fire breaks out at a different fabric store in Bakersfield. Fuck.

1520
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:13,000
Speaker 2: So they investigators that went to that fire founded that

1521
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:15,920
Speaker 2: that was also intentionally set with a slow burning and

1522
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 2: sundiary device in the pillow and foam rubber section of

1523
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:24,160
Speaker 2: the store. There were other suspicious fires in the neighboring

1524
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 2: towns north of Bakersfield to Lauri and Fresno. So it's

1525
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:31,240
Speaker 2: basically all these cities up and down Highway ninety nine,

1526
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:33,240
Speaker 2: which is basically in California.

1527
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:34,760
Speaker 3: There's the five that.

1528
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 2: Goes up and down the entire state, which is what

1529
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 2: you drive when you're going from La to San Francisco

1530
01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 2: and you want to go ninety five miles an hour

1531
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 2: the whole time.

1532
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 3: The ninety nine is in is further east and it's.

1533
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:48,280
Speaker 2: More of a two lane highway, and you take that

1534
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:54,080
Speaker 2: one when you're just smoking a bunch of grass. So

1535
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 2: Marvin Casey hears the reports on the radio, and then

1536
01:18:56,560 --> 01:19:01,400
Speaker 2: he remembers there's an arsen Investigator's convention in Fresno that weekend.

1537
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

1538
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:06,559
Speaker 2: And so he realizes that all of these fires are

1539
01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 2: going up and down the ninety nine, ending in Fresno,

1540
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:13,400
Speaker 2: because Fresno is the northernmost of all the cities that

1541
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:16,960
Speaker 2: that was happening in. And so he goes he's thinking,

1542
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 2: what if this arsonist is a fireman? And he goes

1543
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 2: to his bosses and and and explains this theory to them,

1544
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:30,599
Speaker 2: and they're like, you're fucking crazy. That's insane. It's that's

1545
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:34,280
Speaker 2: not true. Like you know, they're they're so not into

1546
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 2: that theory.

1547
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 3: They were like, think inside the matchbox, co on, but

1548
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:40,840
Speaker 3: he was thinking outside the match box. Oh, oh, I

1549
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:44,960
Speaker 3: get it. God. They basically say he's crazy. Okay, that's

1550
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 3: what they say.

1551
01:19:45,800 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 2: So, uh so they find matching, slow burning, and sundiary

1552
01:19:51,479 --> 01:19:54,439
Speaker 2: devices that match the craft mart and the only fires.

1553
01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 2: Then they take the print. He takes a print that's found,

1554
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:02,040
Speaker 2: it's entered into a but there's no matches in the

1555
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:07,200
Speaker 2: national database. So he asks if he can cross check

1556
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:10,200
Speaker 2: all the fingerprints of the people who are at that

1557
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:15,439
Speaker 2: arson investigation convention with this one fingerprint, and they say no,

1558
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:20,040
Speaker 2: they said, your theory is impossible. Under the iculis Okay.

1559
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,080
Speaker 2: So two years later, in March of nineteen eighty nine,

1560
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:26,720
Speaker 2: there's another space of fires. This one's up and down

1561
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 2: the one to one and it's further north. Marvin Casey

1562
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:36,720
Speaker 2: once again sees that there's an arson investigation symposium in

1563
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:40,600
Speaker 2: Pacific Grove. So this is up by Monterey from what

1564
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 2: I looked on the map, unless there's another Pacific Grove.

1565
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:47,760
Speaker 2: So basically, what Marvin Casey does is he narrows down

1566
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:49,639
Speaker 2: a list of ten people who were at the first

1567
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:55,160
Speaker 2: Arson Symposium and the most recent arsen Symposium. I don't

1568
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 2: know if that's correct termology.

1569
01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:58,720
Speaker 3: I would have guessed that he was that whoever was

1570
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:01,920
Speaker 3: doing the fires was like mocking them or fucking with

1571
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:05,680
Speaker 3: the people the firefighters at the symposium could be, but

1572
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:06,200
Speaker 3: he didn't.

1573
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 2: You mean like burning nearby, like you can't get Yeah, yeah,

1574
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 2: like you guys are all hearing yet I'm still there. Well,

1575
01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:16,440
Speaker 2: anything's possible at this point, except except for my possibility.

1576
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:18,760
Speaker 3: That's no, you're right, I mean I think that's just

1577
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:20,640
Speaker 3: so fascinating. Yeah, to be thought of.

1578
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:28,160
Speaker 2: That, right, Uh Okay, So he makes the list of

1579
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:33,759
Speaker 2: the ten people who are at both and he finally

1580
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 2: they start working there's been so many fires. At this point,

1581
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:40,520
Speaker 2: they bring in the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms

1582
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 2: and so he gets ATF to cross check the fingerprints

1583
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:49,639
Speaker 2: with the one found on the incendiary device. There's no match,

1584
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 2: so it confirmed that Marvin Casey's theory is no good.

1585
01:21:55,960 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 2: His bosses are like, Okay, are you gonna drop this now?

1586
01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:00,960
Speaker 2: Because that was your chance to prove it and your

1587
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:04,160
Speaker 2: theory is wrong. So then two years later, in June

1588
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety, bear's the College Hills fire. This is

1589
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:10,640
Speaker 2: a fire that was in those hills above Glendale. It

1590
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 2: burned sixty seven houses. Oh, it's one of the biggest

1591
01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:19,679
Speaker 2: wildfires in California history, and it was proven to be arson.

1592
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:22,960
Speaker 3: So by the year's end, by the end of nineteen

1593
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:24,720
Speaker 3: ninety it was clear that.

1594
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:28,200
Speaker 2: This arsonist was at it again, and finally the ATF

1595
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:32,639
Speaker 2: assigned Special Agent I'm doing it too, Special Agent Mike

1596
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:36,840
Speaker 2: Matassa to the case. He in starting to work on

1597
01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 2: it and look through all of the evidence of the facts,

1598
01:22:39,320 --> 01:22:42,599
Speaker 2: finds out about Marvin Casey's theory and he thinks it's

1599
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 2: a good theory.

1600
01:22:43,479 --> 01:22:45,720
Speaker 3: So he he goes back.

1601
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 2: He sees that the fingerprint didn't match anybody's, so he

1602
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:52,800
Speaker 2: has the idea that this time he's going to cross

1603
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:56,439
Speaker 2: check that one fingerprint with anyone who's ever applied for

1604
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 2: a job with the city.

1605
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:00,240
Speaker 3: So instead of being those speci.

1606
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 2: Civic dudes, it's just if it is a fireman or

1607
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 2: whoever it could possibly be, will know if we cross

1608
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:08,280
Speaker 2: check it with the city fingerprints.

1609
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:10,680
Speaker 3: It could be a fucking fire receptionist.

1610
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 2: Receptionist, it could be the fucking Dalmatian. Why didn't you

1611
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:20,839
Speaker 2: notice that there were five little pads.

1612
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 3: That's those points points of.

1613
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:25,600
Speaker 2: Comparison or whatever they call it.

1614
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 3: Okay, So.

1615
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:32,759
Speaker 2: So yeah, because you have to get your finger printed

1616
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,040
Speaker 2: when you apply for a job with the city, comes

1617
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 2: back with the match. The match is a man named

1618
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:43,360
Speaker 2: John Or, who is the Arson investigator for the Glendale

1619
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:43,960
Speaker 2: Fire Department.

1620
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 3: The first scene, second scene.

1621
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:49,320
Speaker 2: Yes, at the first story, I told it's the guy

1622
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:51,559
Speaker 2: that was there immediately saying this is Arson.

1623
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:56,000
Speaker 3: He was calling it out as Arson. Yes, yes, tell

1624
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:58,439
Speaker 3: me everything, Okay, this is okay.

1625
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:01,120
Speaker 2: At this point when they do this and forensic files,

1626
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:03,680
Speaker 2: I was like, wait, so what because they do it

1627
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:05,920
Speaker 2: so perfectly that you're like, but who could this be?

1628
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 2: This is super weird, or it's someone that wants to

1629
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 2: be a fireman.

1630
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:10,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it wouldn't be the person that just makes

1631
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 3: no sense of the person. They're be like, it was Urson,

1632
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:15,240
Speaker 3: I know because I did it. Like that doesn't right,

1633
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:18,719
Speaker 3: You're like, you're kind of stupid or you're so smart.

1634
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:23,639
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's it's that thing of like how serial

1635
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:27,680
Speaker 2: killers get so narcissistic and so you know, they're psychopaths,

1636
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:31,559
Speaker 2: so they think they're smarter than everybody. They don't think

1637
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:32,759
Speaker 2: they're ever going to get caught.

1638
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:33,920
Speaker 3: And they really are.

1639
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:38,680
Speaker 2: It's part of the uh joy of doing it is

1640
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:41,680
Speaker 2: being setting it and then being the first one there

1641
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 2: to explain to everybody how it.

1642
01:24:43,080 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 3: Happened, or showing up and thinking someone else is going

1643
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:48,360
Speaker 3: to be like it's Urson, but everyone else like it's naturally.

1644
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:51,439
Speaker 3: It's like, no, give me credit for how smart I am. Yes,

1645
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 3: they're just saying it's a fucking no.

1646
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:55,120
Speaker 2: Look around, is.

1647
01:24:57,320 --> 01:24:58,160
Speaker 3: Real smart over here?

1648
01:24:58,240 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 2: Look over in the pillows.

1649
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:00,680
Speaker 3: Okay, So.

1650
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:04,360
Speaker 2: Here's the deal with John Orr. He applied to be

1651
01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:07,880
Speaker 2: a Los Angeles policeman. First, he all his life wanted

1652
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 2: to be a policeman. He passed every test except for

1653
01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:18,040
Speaker 2: the psychological exam. Can't be that hard to cheat. I

1654
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 2: mean his psych profile. Here's the quote from it, from

1655
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:26,320
Speaker 2: the results of that test. It says he's a schizoid

1656
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 2: person who is withdrawn from people and may have sexual

1657
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 2: confusion on his orientation.

1658
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:36,360
Speaker 3: That comes out in a COP test. I don't I

1659
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:38,560
Speaker 3: want to take it. Can we get the LAPD to

1660
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 3: send us to cop tests?

1661
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:42,680
Speaker 2: Not the one where you have to climb over a

1662
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:45,439
Speaker 2: wall dry? No, no, no, no, not when I fucking

1663
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:47,160
Speaker 2: hate you know, when they scrambled straight up like a

1664
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:47,880
Speaker 2: wooden wall.

1665
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to light that wall on that wouldn't

1666
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:53,479
Speaker 3: wan on fire? Yes, with a slow burning in Sunday here,

1667
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:55,920
Speaker 3: and take a psychological test where I go sit indoors

1668
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:58,080
Speaker 3: in the air conditioning and pass it and pass it.

1669
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:00,280
Speaker 3: Was flying in colors, Okay.

1670
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:05,200
Speaker 2: So then he applies to be an LA fire department, okay,

1671
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:08,120
Speaker 2: a fireman. He applies to be the department. He wants

1672
01:26:08,160 --> 01:26:11,160
Speaker 2: to become the entire department. He applies to be a

1673
01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:15,240
Speaker 2: fireman in LA. But he can't pass the physical the yeah,

1674
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:19,680
Speaker 2: which I mean could anyone for real? Because also it's

1675
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:22,240
Speaker 2: not just being a fireman, but you're in a fireman

1676
01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:24,960
Speaker 2: in La Oh my god, where it's kind of like

1677
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 2: the cream of the crop anyway, in terms of people,

1678
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:30,240
Speaker 2: a lot of people come here with big muscles.

1679
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:36,160
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, just an email Karen if you have big

1680
01:26:36,280 --> 01:26:37,679
Speaker 3: If you're one of those, how big.

1681
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:41,080
Speaker 2: Are your muscles, let me know, Yeah, because I'm super

1682
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:41,400
Speaker 2: into that.

1683
01:26:41,439 --> 01:26:46,120
Speaker 3: I know that's what you're into a big muscles. Totally okay.

1684
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:53,000
Speaker 2: So he doesn't pass the physical, he's crushed, so then

1685
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:54,880
Speaker 2: he kind of like lays low for a while. Then

1686
01:26:54,920 --> 01:27:00,719
Speaker 2: he applies to the Glendale Fire Department, which is tony

1687
01:27:01,479 --> 01:27:05,240
Speaker 2: and exciting and statusy obviously than the lie Fire Department

1688
01:27:06,280 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 2: and probably easier to get into. So he gets in

1689
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:12,439
Speaker 2: and he actually does very well, and he quickly is

1690
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 2: promoted to captain and then eventually to arson investigator.

1691
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:23,200
Speaker 3: So John Orr was also on.

1692
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:25,599
Speaker 2: Marvin Casey's list of the ten people who were at

1693
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:32,360
Speaker 2: both of those ARCU conferences. Yep, and the end later on,

1694
01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:35,120
Speaker 2: they found that the only reason his fingerprint didn't match

1695
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:38,000
Speaker 2: it was just like a lab mistake. It was the

1696
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:42,240
Speaker 2: same fingerprint, So that was almost And also then I thought, ooh,

1697
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:45,479
Speaker 2: or did somebody go this can't get out or this

1698
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:49,880
Speaker 2: can't be found out, sure, although that'd be insane because

1699
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:52,120
Speaker 2: then it's like, but then we'll let all of Glendale

1700
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 2: byurn just to just to hide this one fact.

1701
01:27:55,240 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 3: Maybe what happening in.

1702
01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:03,640
Speaker 2: Bang It six seven houses. So after seven years of

1703
01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:07,880
Speaker 2: arson fires, they finally have a suspect, but the fingerprint

1704
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:09,680
Speaker 2: only puts him at one of the fires, so they

1705
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:14,000
Speaker 2: have to put him under surveillance. So it's so hilarious.

1706
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:18,120
Speaker 2: In this forensic files, they talk all about GPS versus

1707
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:21,160
Speaker 2: the tracker that they use on his car, and they're

1708
01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:25,560
Speaker 2: explaining GPS because no one knew what it was this

1709
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:29,120
Speaker 2: man talking about like satellite technology as such, where I

1710
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:31,920
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, we live like in this

1711
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:37,280
Speaker 2: triple future totally compared to nineteen ninety three or whenever, Okay, totally,

1712
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 2: it's just so weird.

1713
01:28:38,240 --> 01:28:38,600
Speaker 3: I love it.

1714
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:40,800
Speaker 2: So this is basically what happened, and I wish I

1715
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:44,920
Speaker 2: couldn't find anything else about the specifics of this day,

1716
01:28:45,320 --> 01:28:49,000
Speaker 2: and I so wish I could also I tried. I'll

1717
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:52,040
Speaker 2: talk about it. After they find his car. They locate,

1718
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:54,960
Speaker 2: so they put a tracker on his car and they

1719
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:58,120
Speaker 2: find Once they get all this information, they're like, find

1720
01:28:58,240 --> 01:29:00,560
Speaker 2: him now he has to be off the street, you know.

1721
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:03,760
Speaker 2: They find that he's not the Warner Brothers a lot

1722
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:08,920
Speaker 2: in Burbank, and soon after they locate his car there

1723
01:29:09,400 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 2: a fire breaks out on one of the TV show sets.

1724
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:12,840
Speaker 3: Are you O kidding?

1725
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:13,000
Speaker 2: Man?

1726
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:15,200
Speaker 3: I swear to God? And I was like, which one

1727
01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:15,439
Speaker 3: was it?

1728
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:16,920
Speaker 2: Alf, Like, you don't know?

1729
01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:18,400
Speaker 3: I thought you were gonna make me guess.

1730
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:21,280
Speaker 2: No, I wish I could. Someone's got to know this,

1731
01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 2: Someone's got to know. And that's what I was gonna say.

1732
01:29:24,360 --> 01:29:27,080
Speaker 2: It could be in There was a made for HBO

1733
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:32,639
Speaker 2: movie called Point of Origin starring Rayleiota playing this guy,

1734
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:36,120
Speaker 2: and I'm I'm sure it's in there, but the only

1735
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 2: I could find no versions of it, not on HBO,

1736
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:41,320
Speaker 2: go nowhere, not on YouTube. There's a version of it.

1737
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:45,120
Speaker 2: Have you ever seen this? Where people illegally upload movies

1738
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:48,000
Speaker 2: and so they put it into almost like a mortis,

1739
01:29:48,280 --> 01:29:51,760
Speaker 2: so it's it's a TV screen like yours, but turned

1740
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:55,160
Speaker 2: to the side. The speed of the movie is speeded

1741
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:57,880
Speaker 2: up like times two, so it's Raleiota being like, get

1742
01:29:57,920 --> 01:29:59,240
Speaker 2: over here and take a look at this out like.

1743
01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:01,439
Speaker 3: Everything's going Really, I have no idea about that.

1744
01:30:01,720 --> 01:30:04,320
Speaker 2: And also there's an Asian girl standing there with a

1745
01:30:04,360 --> 01:30:07,920
Speaker 2: remote control pointed at the TV like that's all static,

1746
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:11,600
Speaker 2: and then the movie's happening in the screen. You have

1747
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:13,720
Speaker 2: to see it. It's hilarious. You look, if you look

1748
01:30:13,800 --> 01:30:14,679
Speaker 2: up point of Origin.

1749
01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:19,040
Speaker 3: Okay, that's how nice that's in nineteen nineties. Rip off

1750
01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:22,439
Speaker 3: of a movie is Yes, that's how you pirate a movie.

1751
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:23,640
Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety one.

1752
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:25,400
Speaker 2: I tried to watch it for like four minutes and

1753
01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:27,040
Speaker 2: I was like, this is not fucking worth it. I

1754
01:30:27,080 --> 01:30:29,479
Speaker 2: feel like I'm about to go insane. Okay, So anyway,

1755
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:32,559
Speaker 2: but someone can and I bet you in that they

1756
01:30:32,600 --> 01:30:36,479
Speaker 2: say exactly what show they're on. So anyhow, he leaves. Okay,

1757
01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:39,840
Speaker 2: So basically they find that he's at the Warner Brothers lot.

1758
01:30:40,160 --> 01:30:42,880
Speaker 2: Then they get the alarm. A fire is broken out

1759
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 2: on the Warner Bars on fire.

1760
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:46,400
Speaker 3: ELF's burning, his whole.

1761
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:48,760
Speaker 2: Back is on fire. Someone get over there right away,

1762
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:52,000
Speaker 2: which is funny because there is a fire department on

1763
01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:54,679
Speaker 2: the Warner Brothers lot. There's actually like a fire truck

1764
01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:58,080
Speaker 2: and a firehouse and everything right there. Anyhow, ask me anything.

1765
01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:04,000
Speaker 2: So they track him driving away from the Warner Brothers lot,

1766
01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:06,519
Speaker 2: and then when he gets the official call on his

1767
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:11,839
Speaker 2: radio at home. He drives back, but the radio operator

1768
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:14,639
Speaker 2: gave the wrong address, so she's like, there's a fire

1769
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:16,840
Speaker 2: at Diddy Diddy Do he drives straight back to the

1770
01:31:16,880 --> 01:31:17,640
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers lot.

1771
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:18,559
Speaker 3: They did that on purpose?

1772
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:22,720
Speaker 2: Yes, well, they say it was They say they make

1773
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:25,320
Speaker 2: it sound like it was it was the dispatcher's mistake.

1774
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:28,719
Speaker 2: But I bet you that was the test. Yeah, because

1775
01:31:28,720 --> 01:31:30,559
Speaker 2: you don't need to know the address of the Warner

1776
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:33,839
Speaker 2: Brothers a lot. It's like the main thing in Bourbon totally. Anyhow,

1777
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:36,600
Speaker 2: that's when they knew it was absolutely him, because he,

1778
01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:39,720
Speaker 2: being given a different address, still went to where the

1779
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:43,559
Speaker 2: fire was. So they're like, arrest him now. So that's

1780
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:45,680
Speaker 2: they're like, all right, I just said that.

1781
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 3: Okay.

1782
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 2: So they get a search warrant, first home and car,

1783
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:54,120
Speaker 2: and then inside a prefcase they find matches, binder, paper, cigarettes,

1784
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:57,720
Speaker 2: and rubber bax. He claims it's a coincidence and that

1785
01:31:57,800 --> 01:32:01,519
Speaker 2: he's totally innocent. In his home they find home video

1786
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:05,840
Speaker 2: that starts with the shot of a beautiful hillside home

1787
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 2: and that it's like it runs like that for like

1788
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:10,880
Speaker 2: a couple of minutes and then it stops and it

1789
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:13,840
Speaker 2: starts up again to eat the same home eighteen months later,

1790
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:17,640
Speaker 2: burning to the ground. So he was all like.

1791
01:32:18,439 --> 01:32:21,439
Speaker 3: Planned eighteen months. Eighteen months, He's planned it.

1792
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:26,120
Speaker 2: It's so crazy, Okay. So then they also find in

1793
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:28,760
Speaker 2: his house a manuscript for a book called Points of

1794
01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:30,759
Speaker 2: Origin that he's writing.

1795
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:33,920
Speaker 3: He go ahead, he wrote it.

1796
01:32:34,200 --> 01:32:36,720
Speaker 2: He's writing a book about what do you think the

1797
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:37,320
Speaker 2: book's about?

1798
01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:41,200
Speaker 3: Where he's from in Europe? His point of origin.

1799
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:45,439
Speaker 2: M it's a book about an arsen investigator who's actually

1800
01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:46,839
Speaker 2: really a serial arsonist?

1801
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:51,599
Speaker 3: Is does ray Laota in the book version? Play him already?

1802
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:54,840
Speaker 3: What do you mean in the book version? Because real

1803
01:32:55,400 --> 01:32:58,840
Speaker 3: never that's the movie name from the HBO. That's exactly right.

1804
01:32:59,040 --> 01:32:59,880
Speaker 3: So he's writing it.

1805
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:04,760
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but it's not. She didn't write the movie

1806
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:05,599
Speaker 2: version because.

1807
01:33:05,360 --> 01:33:10,040
Speaker 3: A well, ll'll just use his He even said Cassarelia,

1808
01:33:10,240 --> 01:33:10,960
Speaker 3: So we're gonna do it.

1809
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:14,160
Speaker 2: No, They basically go to his house and find a

1810
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:18,599
Speaker 2: script that is his story, but with a different name.

1811
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:23,120
Speaker 2: The arson investigator's name is Aaron Styles. But here's the

1812
01:33:23,479 --> 01:33:26,040
Speaker 2: there's a list of similarities between the book and the

1813
01:33:26,160 --> 01:33:31,280
Speaker 2: facts of the case. Both are firefighters, both are non smokers.

1814
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:35,080
Speaker 2: This is from like a legal document. Both use a

1815
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:37,840
Speaker 2: delay and cndiary device to sign to fully ignite the fire,

1816
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:40,840
Speaker 2: approximately time to fifteen minutes after the device is in place.

1817
01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:44,320
Speaker 2: In one draft of the manuscript, it describes a match

1818
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:46,880
Speaker 2: attached to a cigarette and placed inside a paper bag,

1819
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 2: similar to the actual facts of the binder paper match

1820
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:54,880
Speaker 2: of the binder paper. Both start fires and retail stores

1821
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:58,000
Speaker 2: located in Los Angeles during business hours. Both place the

1822
01:33:58,040 --> 01:34:02,800
Speaker 2: incendiary device incombustible materials located in the store. Both start

1823
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 2: fires in the drapery section at a Los Angeles fabric store.

1824
01:34:06,320 --> 01:34:09,120
Speaker 2: Both start fires in display of styrofoam products.

1825
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 3: Oh my god, both start.

1826
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:14,240
Speaker 2: Fires and hardware stores. Both start fires in several retail

1827
01:34:14,280 --> 01:34:17,639
Speaker 2: stores and close proximity to one another within a short

1828
01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:20,519
Speaker 2: span of time. On the same day. Both start fires

1829
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:23,200
Speaker 2: in the same locations while both the character and the

1830
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:27,040
Speaker 2: actual arsonist were traveling to or from arsen investigators' conferences

1831
01:34:27,439 --> 01:34:28,400
Speaker 2: in Fresno.

1832
01:34:29,120 --> 01:34:31,559
Speaker 3: So he's like, he's admitting to the whole thing. Yeah,

1833
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:32,439
Speaker 3: in a stupid script.

1834
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:34,720
Speaker 2: It's basically a script called My Diary of being a

1835
01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:36,200
Speaker 2: serial Arsenist.

1836
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:39,479
Speaker 3: And he does he say it's a coincidence. Yeah, it's

1837
01:34:39,479 --> 01:34:40,519
Speaker 3: such a strange coincidence.

1838
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:46,439
Speaker 2: But what's not in that document, but what is in

1839
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:49,320
Speaker 2: the script is that his lead character sets these fires

1840
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:53,600
Speaker 2: and then writes about watching them with an erection or

1841
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:58,160
Speaker 2: while masturbating, And one scene in the manuscript, he can't

1842
01:34:58,200 --> 01:34:58,639
Speaker 2: get an.

1843
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 3: Erection until he starts a what if that were what

1844
01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:03,719
Speaker 3: if that were true?

1845
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 2: What if that you were your thing? What if that

1846
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:08,760
Speaker 2: was your thing? What if you couldn't how do you

1847
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:11,519
Speaker 2: figure that out? And then how do you make it work?

1848
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:14,080
Speaker 2: And then like, don't, well, you know what it is,

1849
01:35:14,160 --> 01:35:16,000
Speaker 2: Just don't get an erection anymore. It's fine.

1850
01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:18,679
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know if that's I don't

1851
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:20,719
Speaker 3: know if that's fine. That's not an option for some people.

1852
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:26,400
Speaker 3: Who would it be for? I mean, look, listen, listen.

1853
01:35:27,120 --> 01:35:29,439
Speaker 2: At one point in the book, he describes his lead

1854
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:32,240
Speaker 2: character raping and killing a woman and then burning her

1855
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:37,040
Speaker 2: in her car. Authorities found a similar case where the

1856
01:35:37,080 --> 01:35:39,040
Speaker 2: body of a woman was found raped and murdered in

1857
01:35:39,080 --> 01:35:41,800
Speaker 2: a burnt out car, but they couldn't find any hard

1858
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:45,600
Speaker 2: evidence to connect john Or with that crime. Also in

1859
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:48,360
Speaker 2: the book, the main character talked about setting several fires

1860
01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:51,679
Speaker 2: at once so that the fireman would be overwhelmed, allowing

1861
01:35:51,800 --> 01:35:54,799
Speaker 2: him to watch one of the fire fires burned freely

1862
01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:56,960
Speaker 2: until it was totally out of control.

1863
01:35:57,120 --> 01:35:57,759
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

1864
01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:01,320
Speaker 2: And that same character also talked about one of the

1865
01:36:01,479 --> 01:36:05,320
Speaker 2: victims of one of the fires he sets being a

1866
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:07,479
Speaker 2: two year old boy named Matthew.

1867
01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:08,519
Speaker 3: Are you serious?

1868
01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:13,439
Speaker 2: So the exact victim of one of his fires he's

1869
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:16,799
Speaker 2: writing about in this script, and that was the detail

1870
01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:19,880
Speaker 2: that cinched it for the investigators. They were just like So,

1871
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:22,719
Speaker 2: he's arrested, and he's charged with numerous counts of arson

1872
01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:26,240
Speaker 2: and four counts of first degree murder. In nineteen ninety eight,

1873
01:36:26,240 --> 01:36:28,920
Speaker 2: he's sentenced to life in prison plus twenty years without

1874
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:33,160
Speaker 2: the possibility of parole. He has never admitted that he's guilty,

1875
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:37,640
Speaker 2: which is one of the many signs that he's a psychopath.

1876
01:36:39,880 --> 01:36:43,360
Speaker 2: He's motivated by his ego, by delusions of grandeur. He

1877
01:36:43,479 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 2: believes that he's smarter and better than everyone, no remorse,

1878
01:36:47,240 --> 01:36:51,640
Speaker 2: no guilt, and he's a great actor and highly manipulative.

1879
01:36:51,720 --> 01:36:55,280
Speaker 2: There's actually I've found a couple clips of him talking

1880
01:36:55,520 --> 01:37:02,519
Speaker 2: he got interviewed before he got caught being interviewed and

1881
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:05,519
Speaker 2: talking on the news about one of fires and he's.

1882
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:07,519
Speaker 3: You would he's master people.

1883
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:10,200
Speaker 2: The way he speaks, even though he's not like that

1884
01:37:10,439 --> 01:37:14,160
Speaker 2: exciting of a person, you can tell how he is

1885
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:18,720
Speaker 2: like so kind of strangely alluring. He's very sharp, very

1886
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:21,559
Speaker 2: clear eyed, and very like knows all the details. He's

1887
01:37:21,560 --> 01:37:21,960
Speaker 2: a real.

1888
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:27,480
Speaker 3: Expert, really really interested in what Yeah crazy.

1889
01:37:29,160 --> 01:37:32,400
Speaker 2: So atf agent Mike Mantasa believes it. Between nineteen eighty

1890
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:35,360
Speaker 2: four and nineteen ninety one, John Or set at least

1891
01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:40,679
Speaker 2: two thousand fires and perhaps up to ten thousand fires.

1892
01:37:41,280 --> 01:37:41,559
Speaker 3: Fuck.

1893
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:45,920
Speaker 2: Some arsenal investigators and an FBI criminal profiler have deemed

1894
01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:48,879
Speaker 2: Or to be one of the worst American serial arsonists

1895
01:37:49,160 --> 01:37:52,639
Speaker 2: of the twentieth century. Before his arrest, the average number

1896
01:37:52,680 --> 01:37:55,040
Speaker 2: of brush fires in the hills above Glendale and Burbank

1897
01:37:55,320 --> 01:37:58,559
Speaker 2: were sixty seven. A year after his arrest, that number

1898
01:37:58,640 --> 01:38:03,040
Speaker 2: dropped two three. Oh my fucking gosh. So he was

1899
01:38:03,160 --> 01:38:07,280
Speaker 2: doing all of them for almost a decade. It was

1900
01:38:07,400 --> 01:38:15,240
Speaker 2: all him, essentially. Uh oh. And then I just started

1901
01:38:15,280 --> 01:38:17,280
Speaker 2: watching a video about what it actually means to be

1902
01:38:17,320 --> 01:38:21,400
Speaker 2: a psychopath, because we've had so many discussions about psychopaths, sociopath, yeah,

1903
01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:24,960
Speaker 2: all the different languages that we use, and it's basically

1904
01:38:25,120 --> 01:38:28,080
Speaker 2: the psychopath. What I think is super interesting is that

1905
01:38:28,160 --> 01:38:32,959
Speaker 2: they have absolutely no empathy or connection to other people's feelings.

1906
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:37,040
Speaker 2: And it's a thing where like to imagine, like you

1907
01:38:37,120 --> 01:38:39,240
Speaker 2: could kind of break down of like, so you're an arsonist,

1908
01:38:39,360 --> 01:38:42,200
Speaker 2: You're you have like almost like a sexual fetish for fire,

1909
01:38:42,600 --> 01:38:46,320
Speaker 2: so you're forced to set these fires. That's one thing

1910
01:38:46,520 --> 01:38:49,519
Speaker 2: where you're just like you can't control it to set

1911
01:38:49,560 --> 01:38:53,160
Speaker 2: a fire during business hours of a large business and

1912
01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:56,280
Speaker 2: then four people get trapped inside that fire and die,

1913
01:38:57,120 --> 01:38:58,559
Speaker 2: and you still write about.

1914
01:38:58,360 --> 01:38:59,439
Speaker 3: Them like it's fiction.

1915
01:38:59,800 --> 01:39:02,639
Speaker 2: It's just this fun idea you have, Like, he has

1916
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:06,400
Speaker 2: absolutely no connection to other human beings.

1917
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:08,639
Speaker 3: Does that mean that does that mean that they don't

1918
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:12,640
Speaker 3: have feelings like us either, Like if you can't be

1919
01:39:12,720 --> 01:39:15,360
Speaker 3: empathetic towards other people's feelings, does it mean you don't

1920
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:17,240
Speaker 3: know what it's like to be sad, You don't all

1921
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:19,439
Speaker 3: what it's like to be happy or angry or No.

1922
01:39:19,560 --> 01:39:23,320
Speaker 2: I think they have their own feelings, they just don't understand.

1923
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:25,880
Speaker 2: So this is kind of interesting and this could be

1924
01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:29,439
Speaker 2: completely off, but but this is my own personal theory

1925
01:39:30,040 --> 01:39:33,120
Speaker 2: because my therapist is really into like all that brain

1926
01:39:33,680 --> 01:39:38,479
Speaker 2: research and how like a lot of times we blame

1927
01:39:38,520 --> 01:39:41,760
Speaker 2: ourselves for just what our natural brain does. So like

1928
01:39:41,960 --> 01:39:44,960
Speaker 2: people are like, I'm super anxious, but actually, like our

1929
01:39:45,080 --> 01:39:50,679
Speaker 2: brain are amygdala that like is set to it trains

1930
01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:54,000
Speaker 2: us to look for for predators constantly. So if you're

1931
01:39:54,080 --> 01:39:57,080
Speaker 2: not thinking about the past, if you're not like going

1932
01:39:57,160 --> 01:39:59,000
Speaker 2: over what you did the last time you tried to

1933
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:01,960
Speaker 2: go hunt a bison or whatever, then if you're in

1934
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:04,720
Speaker 2: the present, you're just scanning for danger. And that's our

1935
01:40:04,840 --> 01:40:09,280
Speaker 2: natural brain set. It's either excuse me, reviewing the past

1936
01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:13,360
Speaker 2: for mistakes or scanning the present or possible future for danger.

1937
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:16,840
Speaker 2: These days, people think that means I'm crazy, when it's like, no, no,

1938
01:40:17,080 --> 01:40:19,040
Speaker 2: that's the natural set point of your brain.

1939
01:40:19,240 --> 01:40:22,000
Speaker 3: I'm anxious, and it's like, no, you're just constantly scanning

1940
01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:23,920
Speaker 3: for things that could go wrong, right, And maybe you're

1941
01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:27,960
Speaker 3: overdoing it because of whatever reasons, but normal to be

1942
01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:28,200
Speaker 3: like that.

1943
01:40:28,439 --> 01:40:30,960
Speaker 2: But I think part of the reason people think they're

1944
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:34,120
Speaker 2: overdoing it is because people think they're supposed to be

1945
01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:37,680
Speaker 2: at some zen neutral nothing where it's like no, an

1946
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:41,320
Speaker 2: active mind is a natural thing, especially a mind that's

1947
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:42,840
Speaker 2: like be careful, be careful, be careful.

1948
01:40:42,920 --> 01:40:43,880
Speaker 3: That makes me feel better.

1949
01:40:44,280 --> 01:40:47,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like why we're alive. It's why we our

1950
01:40:47,360 --> 01:40:50,439
Speaker 2: ancestors lived, and other people died because that part of.

1951
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:51,559
Speaker 3: Their brain didn't work as well.

1952
01:40:51,680 --> 01:40:54,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, motherfuckers, it's not as bad as you think. But

1953
01:40:54,840 --> 01:40:56,760
Speaker 2: so this other part, there's lots of theory that she

1954
01:40:57,240 --> 01:40:58,880
Speaker 2: told me that made me very happy. But the other

1955
01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:01,960
Speaker 2: one was this thing called mirror neurons that they're just

1956
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:06,320
Speaker 2: kind of now like doing research on and understanding. But

1957
01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:08,680
Speaker 2: it's the thing of like when you watch one of

1958
01:41:08,720 --> 01:41:11,120
Speaker 2: those videos of a soldier coming home and his dog

1959
01:41:11,240 --> 01:41:14,000
Speaker 2: losing its shit right, and it just makes you cry,

1960
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:17,000
Speaker 2: that's because that's not happening to you.

1961
01:41:17,760 --> 01:41:19,280
Speaker 3: But your brain doesn't know that.

1962
01:41:19,520 --> 01:41:22,280
Speaker 2: Because your brain is watching another human being which it

1963
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:24,960
Speaker 2: looks like you and seems like you go through and

1964
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:28,400
Speaker 2: experience that, the mirror neuron goes, this is what it

1965
01:41:28,479 --> 01:41:31,200
Speaker 2: feels like when this happens. And then like right now,

1966
01:41:31,240 --> 01:41:34,960
Speaker 2: I'm getting tingles thinking about those videos because my brain goes,

1967
01:41:35,240 --> 01:41:38,760
Speaker 2: it's you when you are taking in that information. The

1968
01:41:38,840 --> 01:41:40,439
Speaker 2: way your brain processes.

1969
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:43,040
Speaker 3: Is that you're having these emotions that that person's having

1970
01:41:43,200 --> 01:41:46,799
Speaker 3: exactly because you're empathetic and you can understand exactly, and that's.

1971
01:41:46,640 --> 01:41:49,200
Speaker 2: How we stay connected, and that's how we make sure

1972
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:51,600
Speaker 2: we have food every night. And shelter is because you

1973
01:41:51,720 --> 01:41:56,840
Speaker 2: need human connection to survive. Like it's tribe mentality, it's

1974
01:41:57,120 --> 01:41:59,880
Speaker 2: survival instincts psychopaths have.

1975
01:42:00,560 --> 01:42:02,599
Speaker 3: Well I shouldn't say that, because that's now I'm making

1976
01:42:02,640 --> 01:42:04,920
Speaker 3: sit up, But one would say that they don't. They're

1977
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:05,839
Speaker 3: not have that ability.

1978
01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:08,360
Speaker 2: We know. I was about to say they don't have mirinrons.

1979
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:11,760
Speaker 2: I know nothing about but brain chemistry or anything. But

1980
01:42:12,040 --> 01:42:14,280
Speaker 2: we know for a fact they don't have empathy. So

1981
01:42:14,400 --> 01:42:16,519
Speaker 2: when they watch a soldier come home and its dog

1982
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:19,240
Speaker 2: loses its shit and all those things, they just are

1983
01:42:19,320 --> 01:42:22,800
Speaker 2: watching a video of two things touching each other. So

1984
01:42:22,920 --> 01:42:25,919
Speaker 2: it's not like they get mad. He clearly has sexual feelings.

1985
01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:28,479
Speaker 2: He has he wants to be famous, he wrote this thing,

1986
01:42:28,640 --> 01:42:32,960
Speaker 2: He wants different things. He just has no connectors to

1987
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:36,200
Speaker 2: the people around him, and know he doesn't understand if

1988
01:42:36,240 --> 01:42:39,080
Speaker 2: something happens to that person it feels the same to

1989
01:42:39,160 --> 01:42:41,120
Speaker 2: them as it doesn't say that happens to him.

1990
01:42:42,479 --> 01:42:44,479
Speaker 3: Wow, that's heavy.

1991
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:48,679
Speaker 2: I over explained that, but I really felt like an expert.

1992
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:50,560
Speaker 2: And sometimes you just want to keep on feeling like

1993
01:42:50,640 --> 01:42:51,120
Speaker 2: an expert.

1994
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:53,720
Speaker 3: If there's any corrections, scornish or that save it.

1995
01:42:55,320 --> 01:42:56,800
Speaker 2: Just let me be right this one time.

1996
01:42:57,000 --> 01:43:00,920
Speaker 3: Have some empathy. If you have empathy and correct corner that.

1997
01:43:01,120 --> 01:43:03,799
Speaker 3: Come on, I'm gonna go ahead and say you were right.

1998
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:06,439
Speaker 2: Thank you. I mean I think I was at least

1999
01:43:06,479 --> 01:43:07,519
Speaker 2: in the ballpark this time.

2000
01:43:07,640 --> 01:43:07,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2001
01:43:07,960 --> 01:43:11,120
Speaker 2: Well, also because I watch are really good. There's some

2002
01:43:11,200 --> 01:43:13,880
Speaker 2: real good videos. This can be my good thing of

2003
01:43:13,960 --> 01:43:17,840
Speaker 2: the week. Okay, it's I found these videos that are

2004
01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:20,720
Speaker 2: just you know those ones they explain something with an illustration.

2005
01:43:20,920 --> 01:43:23,679
Speaker 2: So there's someone talking about it's being drawn.

2006
01:43:23,880 --> 01:43:26,080
Speaker 3: Yes, I got it. Now you put an arrow to

2007
01:43:26,240 --> 01:43:26,800
Speaker 3: a thing.

2008
01:43:27,160 --> 01:43:29,800
Speaker 2: Yes, And suddenly it's clear you just have a little

2009
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:31,960
Speaker 2: Ikia guy that's actually acting it out.

2010
01:43:32,120 --> 01:43:33,800
Speaker 3: Now I get it. He has a happy face and

2011
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:35,640
Speaker 3: a sad face. Yeah, and that's how you know how

2012
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:36,120
Speaker 3: he's feeling.

2013
01:43:36,280 --> 01:43:39,760
Speaker 2: But no hair for some reason. Too much. So I

2014
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:45,360
Speaker 2: found a series of videos by the people who make them,

2015
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:49,080
Speaker 2: is called psych to the Number two Go. And so

2016
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:52,920
Speaker 2: it's like, what does it mean to be a psychopath,

2017
01:43:53,080 --> 01:43:55,080
Speaker 2: or how to know if you're dating a sociopath, or

2018
01:43:56,360 --> 01:43:58,840
Speaker 2: you know how to deal with your anxiety whatever. But

2019
01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:01,080
Speaker 2: then I'm like, what is to go? I've never heard

2020
01:44:01,120 --> 01:44:02,800
Speaker 2: of you before, so I start looking into that. It

2021
01:44:02,920 --> 01:44:07,520
Speaker 2: brings me to a website that says psychology Buy Millennials

2022
01:44:07,640 --> 01:44:08,839
Speaker 2: formal I'll.

2023
01:44:09,200 --> 01:44:11,280
Speaker 3: Get and then it kicked you out. It's like, enter

2024
01:44:11,320 --> 01:44:14,320
Speaker 3: your birthdate, get out of here, Grandma, this is U

2025
01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:17,760
Speaker 3: had end to your birthday and it's like, eh, start out.

2026
01:44:18,479 --> 01:44:21,920
Speaker 2: Sorry. It made me laugh so hard that it's like,

2027
01:44:22,520 --> 01:44:29,840
Speaker 2: finally psychology for me, psychology I can relate to you. Yeah,

2028
01:44:30,600 --> 01:44:32,240
Speaker 2: but actually it seems like a good website.

2029
01:44:32,320 --> 01:44:32,519
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2030
01:44:32,640 --> 01:44:33,880
Speaker 2: I was just trying to make sure it wasn't like

2031
01:44:34,400 --> 01:44:35,520
Speaker 2: secretly scientology.

2032
01:44:35,640 --> 01:44:39,120
Speaker 3: Sure, and then I was like, and anyways, kill kill

2033
01:44:39,479 --> 01:44:41,120
Speaker 3: kill Karen and.

2034
01:44:41,200 --> 01:44:42,200
Speaker 2: Then send us the money.

2035
01:44:42,320 --> 01:44:47,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it wasn't that. That's sweet. My positive thing

2036
01:44:47,360 --> 01:44:49,799
Speaker 3: is that it's an are going away for my birthday

2037
01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:51,240
Speaker 3: for a couple of days, and I just can't wait

2038
01:44:51,320 --> 01:44:55,679
Speaker 3: to get out of the city and go antiquing. I'm

2039
01:44:55,680 --> 01:45:01,080
Speaker 3: gonna eat so much food. Maybe they'll be massage in there.

2040
01:45:01,280 --> 01:45:05,040
Speaker 3: Oh hey, out of town two. That's gonna be so nice.

2041
01:45:05,240 --> 01:45:07,360
Speaker 2: And you're gonna be by the ocean, right, Yeah, So

2042
01:45:07,479 --> 01:45:10,240
Speaker 2: you get to have some some of them negative ions,

2043
01:45:10,760 --> 01:45:13,320
Speaker 2: which is real good for you. If that happened, that's

2044
01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:16,720
Speaker 2: the ocean air. That's why ocean air always feels good

2045
01:45:16,760 --> 01:45:20,120
Speaker 2: and like makes you feel refreshed. It's them negative ions

2046
01:45:20,160 --> 01:45:22,559
Speaker 2: that we don't get in this polluted city.

2047
01:45:23,080 --> 01:45:28,479
Speaker 3: I'm into it. All right, We're back, Karen. Do you

2048
01:45:28,560 --> 01:45:31,280
Speaker 3: have any updates? I do, so let's see.

2049
01:45:31,280 --> 01:45:34,040
Speaker 2: Well. John Orr continues to serve a life sentence. He

2050
01:45:34,200 --> 01:45:37,559
Speaker 2: still maintains his innocence. He claims that he had an

2051
01:45:37,640 --> 01:45:41,320
Speaker 2: ironclad alibi but his lawyers wouldn't listen, and that he

2052
01:45:41,400 --> 01:45:44,360
Speaker 2: pleaded guilty to save his wife, who is now his

2053
01:45:44,560 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 2: fourth ex wife, from bankruptcy. So kind of interesting. Apple

2054
01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:52,439
Speaker 2: TV has a twenty twenty five series called Smoke that

2055
01:45:52,600 --> 01:45:57,200
Speaker 2: was inspired by this story, and tarn Edgerton, who's the

2056
01:45:57,240 --> 01:46:01,360
Speaker 2: guy that played Elton John, is the star. And then

2057
01:46:01,640 --> 01:46:04,400
Speaker 2: Jerny Smollett, who you might remember from love Craft Country

2058
01:46:05,120 --> 01:46:07,800
Speaker 2: so good in that so she's the detective. And then

2059
01:46:07,880 --> 01:46:11,080
Speaker 2: tarin Edgerton is the fire and investigator with the dark

2060
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:15,800
Speaker 2: past and they hunt down some serial arsonists. And also

2061
01:46:15,880 --> 01:46:19,439
Speaker 2: there's a podcast called Firebug from twenty twenty one and

2062
01:46:19,600 --> 01:46:23,240
Speaker 2: it chronicles the investigation into these fires through interviews and

2063
01:46:23,400 --> 01:46:28,920
Speaker 2: excerpts from that manuscript that or wrote. So that story

2064
01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:32,280
Speaker 2: is just so crazy. I will always remember learning about

2065
01:46:32,320 --> 01:46:35,160
Speaker 2: it and then just being like, this cannot be real.

2066
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:39,960
Speaker 3: Yes, beyond the audacity of evil is just like beyond

2067
01:46:40,120 --> 01:46:43,960
Speaker 3: comprehension for people who aren't evil, which is I guess

2068
01:46:44,040 --> 01:46:45,559
Speaker 3: why we do this right?

2069
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:49,080
Speaker 2: And like sitting in when you live in the valley

2070
01:46:49,320 --> 01:46:51,720
Speaker 2: and you look at that hillside all the time and

2071
01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:54,360
Speaker 2: they were catching on fire constantly, it was just like

2072
01:46:54,560 --> 01:46:57,200
Speaker 2: it became this just well, this is just how it is,

2073
01:46:57,360 --> 01:47:00,799
Speaker 2: and there must be a scientific reason and a natural

2074
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:06,200
Speaker 2: kind of reason. Instead it's the fucking fire. The fire

2075
01:47:06,320 --> 01:47:08,040
Speaker 2: chief's doing it just wild.

2076
01:47:08,280 --> 01:47:14,559
Speaker 3: All right, let's head back in to wrap up the show. Okay,

2077
01:47:14,640 --> 01:47:16,680
Speaker 3: by no, wait, that was fun. Should we wrap it up?

2078
01:47:16,720 --> 01:47:20,280
Speaker 3: I feel like we didn't wrap it up correctly. That's good.

2079
01:47:20,600 --> 01:47:22,600
Speaker 3: I like your fire story, thank you.

2080
01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:24,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna watch that.

2081
01:47:24,640 --> 01:47:26,799
Speaker 3: The whole time. In my mind, I was like picturing

2082
01:47:27,040 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 3: how the forensic files would look. Yeah, so as you

2083
01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:31,760
Speaker 3: were telling to me, I was like, oh, yeah, then

2084
01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:34,160
Speaker 3: this thing would happen like how bad The like reenactments

2085
01:47:34,200 --> 01:47:35,840
Speaker 3: probably were from the nineties, And.

2086
01:47:36,160 --> 01:47:38,559
Speaker 2: Yes, there was a lot of They had a lot

2087
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:39,240
Speaker 2: of home video.

2088
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:42,720
Speaker 3: Oh okay, the Dawn of like real because it was

2089
01:47:42,880 --> 01:47:43,639
Speaker 3: his home video.

2090
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:46,760
Speaker 2: Yes, he would go to the fucking fires and set

2091
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:50,760
Speaker 2: up his video camera, dude or his He had a

2092
01:47:50,840 --> 01:47:55,320
Speaker 2: lot of like hard copy photos. Fuck. Yeah, it's the craziest.

2093
01:47:56,600 --> 01:48:00,120
Speaker 2: Like I think that might be my favorite is the

2094
01:48:00,880 --> 01:48:04,280
Speaker 2: person that's been wearing a mask and then doing horrifying

2095
01:48:04,360 --> 01:48:06,800
Speaker 2: things and no one knows and like it's almost like

2096
01:48:06,840 --> 01:48:07,840
Speaker 2: people don't want to know.

2097
01:48:08,120 --> 01:48:10,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish someone would talk to him. It's crazy

2098
01:48:10,280 --> 01:48:12,600
Speaker 3: that he's still alive and like housle this information but

2099
01:48:12,640 --> 01:48:16,040
Speaker 3: won't even like admit to it so we can like

2100
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:17,800
Speaker 3: figure him out.

2101
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:21,439
Speaker 2: Oh no, in his mind, he's it's another one of

2102
01:48:21,479 --> 01:48:25,040
Speaker 2: those things. He's being victimized. He's completely innocent. He has

2103
01:48:25,240 --> 01:48:28,720
Speaker 2: never admitted to anything, so I wonder what that is

2104
01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:32,400
Speaker 2: all about too. He's a psychopath. They don't admit they're there,

2105
01:48:32,640 --> 01:48:36,120
Speaker 2: even if he does, he know he did it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

2106
01:48:36,560 --> 01:48:38,280
Speaker 2: How can you think he's tricking anyone? He's in Joe

2107
01:48:38,360 --> 01:48:41,880
Speaker 2: Larus's life. I guess well, he did trick people for

2108
01:48:42,040 --> 01:48:46,040
Speaker 2: so long and it's the that's part of the mental illness,

2109
01:48:46,520 --> 01:48:49,000
Speaker 2: is like they're they think they're the kind of the

2110
01:48:49,120 --> 01:48:55,000
Speaker 2: king of the world. Well shit, I mean, fuck, don't

2111
01:48:55,040 --> 01:48:58,680
Speaker 2: do it. Look stay away if you do anything. If

2112
01:48:58,680 --> 01:49:01,439
Speaker 2: you don't do anything, please to be light everything on fire.

2113
01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:05,400
Speaker 2: Yeah right, yes, now you've heard me say that a

2114
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:07,880
Speaker 2: milik is not your lower back.

2115
01:49:09,880 --> 01:49:10,920
Speaker 3: It wraps all the way.

2116
01:49:10,800 --> 01:49:17,120
Speaker 2: Around my haunch, your hat, your cackles, I get my

2117
01:49:17,200 --> 01:49:17,800
Speaker 2: cockles up.

2118
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:23,679
Speaker 3: Okay, we're back.

2119
01:49:24,760 --> 01:49:28,280
Speaker 2: So this episode was originally named Stephen It Out, which

2120
01:49:28,320 --> 01:49:33,000
Speaker 2: we were basically using Stephen's name as a substitute for editing.

2121
01:49:33,680 --> 01:49:37,559
Speaker 2: And so if we were going to name it today,

2122
01:49:38,280 --> 01:49:38,960
Speaker 2: what would we call it?

2123
01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:43,000
Speaker 3: Georgia? We call it bitch color wheel Hell yeah, the

2124
01:49:43,080 --> 01:49:47,120
Speaker 3: different ways to be a bitch, A beautiful rainbow. Oh

2125
01:49:47,280 --> 01:49:50,759
Speaker 3: and then of course my birthday wish for myself learned

2126
01:49:50,800 --> 01:49:54,040
Speaker 3: to levitate. Yes, live it, love it.

2127
01:49:54,200 --> 01:49:56,960
Speaker 2: Learned to Levitate was one of my the funniest things,

2128
01:49:57,600 --> 01:49:59,200
Speaker 2: not only funniest things you've ever said.

2129
01:49:59,400 --> 01:50:00,360
Speaker 3: Made me laugh so hard.

2130
01:50:00,439 --> 01:50:03,720
Speaker 2: But then somebody made that unbelievable graphic for it that

2131
01:50:03,880 --> 01:50:07,439
Speaker 2: had like a tree line, a beautiful kind of like nature.

2132
01:50:08,200 --> 01:50:09,519
Speaker 2: That was one of the first things I think I

2133
01:50:09,560 --> 01:50:11,960
Speaker 2: saw it on Facebook where I'm like Oh my god,

2134
01:50:12,040 --> 01:50:14,920
Speaker 2: they're paying attention to what we're saying and then making things.

2135
01:50:15,040 --> 01:50:17,240
Speaker 3: Because if you ask me what the dumbest thing I've

2136
01:50:17,240 --> 01:50:19,920
Speaker 3: said on this podcast is, it's that I don't understand

2137
01:50:20,360 --> 01:50:23,600
Speaker 3: why you liked it, why anyone liked it. It's just

2138
01:50:23,600 --> 01:50:24,400
Speaker 3: because that's.

2139
01:50:24,360 --> 01:50:27,160
Speaker 2: Just it's you being a fast brain, which is always fun.

2140
01:50:27,320 --> 01:50:29,479
Speaker 2: But then it was like you were just yes, anding

2141
01:50:30,120 --> 01:50:32,400
Speaker 2: you were yes, ending something dumb and then being like,

2142
01:50:32,479 --> 01:50:34,000
Speaker 2: and this is what I'm all about or what.

2143
01:50:34,520 --> 01:50:37,400
Speaker 3: It was hilarious. It was just hilarious. Just try it,

2144
01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:39,680
Speaker 3: Try this, to try saying the stupid thing everyone. You

2145
01:50:39,800 --> 01:50:41,120
Speaker 3: never know what It'll end up on a T.

2146
01:50:41,200 --> 01:50:44,719
Speaker 2: Shirt and who fucking cares anyway, Right, all right.

2147
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:47,320
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for listening. We're gonna let me me silently

2148
01:50:47,400 --> 01:50:55,439
Speaker 3: say goodbye. Way back in twenty seventeen. Thanks for listening,

2149
01:50:55,600 --> 01:50:59,280
Speaker 3: you guys. You guys are the fucking sweetest. You're number one,

2150
01:50:59,439 --> 01:51:01,639
Speaker 3: number one, Stephen, Thank you, Stephen.

2151
01:51:01,680 --> 01:51:03,639
Speaker 2: Thank you for all your accents this week.

2152
01:51:05,160 --> 01:51:10,320
Speaker 3: I'm pretty good. Thanks. Oh there was a moment of thinking, Mimi,

2153
01:51:10,520 --> 01:51:14,040
Speaker 3: thank you for your input this week. Come on now

2154
01:51:14,320 --> 01:51:18,760
Speaker 3: this one, MEMI, All right, Mimi's like, no, that's not

2155
01:51:18,880 --> 01:51:20,599
Speaker 3: I'm not that one. No comment, and I think while

2156
01:51:20,600 --> 01:51:22,040
Speaker 3: I did that, I broke this microphone.

2157
01:51:22,479 --> 01:51:24,360
Speaker 2: So that was great, thanked it right down.

2158
01:51:27,400 --> 01:51:29,479
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for listening to you guys. Yeah, stay sexy

2159
01:51:29,640 --> 01:51:35,679
Speaker 3: and don't get murdered. Elvis one cookie, MEMI, one cookie

2160
01:51:37,160 --> 01:51:38,040
Speaker 3: that was Elvis.

2161
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:43,559
Speaker 2: Okay, bye,