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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Hey, Julie,

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Speaker 1: have you ever renovated a house? I have. I have

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Speaker 1: to tell you that wallpaper removal is the scourge of

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Speaker 1: all renovators. It's awful, that's gross. I've never had to

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Speaker 1: do that. I had to scrape piles off of hardwood floors,

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Speaker 1: but that's about it. I don't know. I haven't done

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Speaker 1: that actually, so I can't say if it's worse. But

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Speaker 1: I can't say that my own experience, you know, being

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Speaker 1: in a really small room, you know, filled with fumes

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Speaker 1: like fel methyl kind of stuff and trying to just

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Speaker 1: inch my inch and get you know, flowered wallpaper from

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Speaker 1: the nine is a horrible thing. Yellow women running around

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Speaker 1: in them and all that. Yeah, yes, because, uh, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's rough with with renovating because you often you'll

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Speaker 1: come in to a house or space that is in

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Speaker 1: some cases unlivable, and you you have to put all

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Speaker 1: this work into it just to get it up to

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Speaker 1: the standard where you can be comfortable with the fact

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Speaker 1: that you live in this space. Uh, and that's not

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Speaker 1: even you know, discussing the process of getting it where

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Speaker 1: you want it to eventually be exactly and if you will,

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Speaker 1: which can take forever and never happen, that's right, has

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Speaker 1: to become habitable at some point. You've got to get

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Speaker 1: the the pp shot sent out of the floor. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I sometimes there's a meth lab spas the same smell

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Speaker 1: catp meth lab, that's what say. But I tell you

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Speaker 1: a real fixer upper out there that that really it's

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Speaker 1: far rougher than any wallpaper issues you've had, or or

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Speaker 1: tiles on the hardwoods that I've had. And that is

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Speaker 1: the prospect of moving to the planet March. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is screaming for a redo. Yeah. That place is rough,

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Speaker 1: garish red color. And uh, I mean it's just you

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Speaker 1: couldn't live on March right now. That's kind of an

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Speaker 1: overstatement of the obvious. But but but you could not

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Speaker 1: live in it. You would have to ter a form it,

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Speaker 1: which is the planetary version of renovating a space. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I at first I used to think about it

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Speaker 1: as as like a terrarium for humans, although there would

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Speaker 1: be no dome. But I like the idea of having

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Speaker 1: this gigantic terrarium on Mars filled with humans. But that's

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Speaker 1: really not what scientists are thinking. Yeah they're they're not

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Speaker 1: thinking as much as of that, but just sort of.

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Speaker 1: But but it does come down to we really wish

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Speaker 1: this place is a little more like Earth, um because

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Speaker 1: we want to be able to potentially live there. What

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Speaker 1: can we do to make it happen? And I go ahead, No,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, so, well, why why do it?

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Speaker 1: That's what I keep struggling with with this topic, like

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Speaker 1: why would you tear for Mars? Yeah, that this is

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Speaker 1: a big one because it's hard to make the argument

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Speaker 1: that we need to be on March right now unless

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Speaker 1: I mean some people, if you're Robert Superan, uh yesterday,

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Speaker 1: and then we should have been yesterday years ago. I Mean,

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Speaker 1: one of the big key arguments is that it has

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Speaker 1: to do with the long term survival of the human race,

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Speaker 1: that that eventually we're gonna have to become an interplanetary

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Speaker 1: uh race, We're gonna have to become an interstellar race

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Speaker 1: because we've got six billion of us right now and

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Speaker 1: we're not stopping. We're We're yeah, we're growing. There's a

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Speaker 1: the Earth isn't gonna last forever. And if we have

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Speaker 1: this idea that we're gonna last forever, we're gonna need

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Speaker 1: to expand out diversify our planetary portfolio. Okay, and sort

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Speaker 1: of like the lorax, We've we've done a real number

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Speaker 1: to our own environment, right, so we want to try

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Speaker 1: to maybe escape our atmosphere and go to a new

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Speaker 1: virgin atmosphere. That's all lussion. Pretty Yeah, it seems like

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Speaker 1: you see less of that these days, but it seems

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Speaker 1: like that was a real driving force for a while,

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Speaker 1: Like all right, well, this one's about used up. What's next.

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Speaker 1: But but at a very basic level, if we're gonna

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Speaker 1: becoming an interplanetary interstellar race, you've got to take those

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Speaker 1: baby steps. You So people talk about going to the

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Speaker 1: going to Mars, and then it expands from there. The

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Speaker 1: other side of it, and this is generally touted as

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Speaker 1: more of a secondary argument, is that UM, in the

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Speaker 1: same way that the Age of Discovery propelled scientific innovation,

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Speaker 1: so too would the terraforming and eventual colonization of another

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Speaker 1: world UM stir up a lot of technical innovation that

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Speaker 1: would benefit life on Earth. Yeah. Actually, I even pulled

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Speaker 1: a quote to that effect, because I thought, well, that

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Speaker 1: is interesting, that that's the sort of view I can

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Speaker 1: take on and say, Okay, it might be worth our

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Speaker 1: time because indirectly we would get all this technology. UM.

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Speaker 1: Dr Adrian Brown of SETI, with that Search for Extraterrestrial

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Speaker 1: Life Institute. UM, he had actually said something very similar

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Speaker 1: to that, saying that we wouldn't have invented such precise

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Speaker 1: time keeping and navigational technology if we didn't need it

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Speaker 1: in order to cross huge expanses of ocean to reach

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Speaker 1: frontiers in Asia, Africa, in the New World. So he's

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Speaker 1: using that same analogy for space, yeah, which I thought

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Speaker 1: was interesting. Thy, Yeah, it is. And uh. And then

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Speaker 1: there's the whole argument too that to really understand Mars,

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Speaker 1: we would need to be there now. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: how well that holds up with our continued advances in

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Speaker 1: the robotic exploration techniques, but there's you definitely run across

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Speaker 1: that argument. We're saying like, if we want to we

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Speaker 1: want to get to the bottom of the possibility of

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Speaker 1: life on Mars now or life in its distant path,

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Speaker 1: and therefore understand the um evolution of life in the

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Speaker 1: cosmos better than we're going to need to be there

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Speaker 1: so well, and see I do understand the argument too,

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Speaker 1: but then I also kind of think, well, if you

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Speaker 1: if you have samples that are collected by robots and

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Speaker 1: sent back, you know, you have the data that you

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Speaker 1: need part of It's kind of like you have to

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Speaker 1: admit it would be just really cool to be on Mars,

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Speaker 1: and that's a reason to go. It's kind of like, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're as of recording this, we're planning to

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Speaker 1: go to south By Southwest to record something. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of like if you know, if someone were to say, look,

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Speaker 1: you really need to send us there, and we're we're

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Speaker 1: making the argument because it would also be cool, you know,

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Speaker 1: can be a little different if we just sent like

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Speaker 1: a little hologram of ourselves. Yeah. Yeah, And that was

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Speaker 1: on the table. We were saying, look, let's just been

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Speaker 1: robot explorers to south By Southwest and then we're like, no,

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Speaker 1: because we won't give the full effect and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: and we'll also have more advanced technology for having to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to send ourselves to it, right, So

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Speaker 1: it's sort of a win win from Yeah, But so

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Speaker 1: I'm also wondering why Mars, Why not Venus well, Mars

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Speaker 1: is ultimately the better prospect. I mean, Venus is. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get up on Venus. The Venus is fascinating,

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Speaker 1: but Venus is is pretty messed up. I mean it's

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Speaker 1: a hot mess. Yeah, like it's it's a hot, highly pressurized,

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Speaker 1: acid clouded world. And uh and and Mars it's just

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Speaker 1: a little It's like if you're looking at two houses,

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Speaker 1: Mars is the better fix it up property. I think

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Speaker 1: it's worth mentioning, like exactly what Venus is a teardown? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Venus is more of a teardown. I guess they're our

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Speaker 1: terraforming schemes out there for Venus. But but we're gonna

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Speaker 1: focus on Mars just because it's an easier prospect to understand, um,

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Speaker 1: and to understand what what is what's exactly wrong with Mars? Right?

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Speaker 1: We need to I feel like we need to, we

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Speaker 1: need to look at that. So one of the big

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Speaker 1: things terrible atmosphere, just really bad. Yeah. Then, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: keep in mind that humans are involved to live in

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Speaker 1: a very small atmospheric level of our own world and

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Speaker 1: sort of a special sauce here that ye obviously isn't

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Speaker 1: present on Mars. Yeah, and there are layers of this

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Speaker 1: special sauce where we die. You know, if you got

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Speaker 1: to go up to the top of Everest without any

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Speaker 1: kind of transition, then you you wouldn't survive most people,

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Speaker 1: most people the serpens would do, but they're used to it. Um.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we wouldn't get enough oxygen we die. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's it's just just way too thin, it lacks efficient

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Speaker 1: air pressure and contains way too much carbon dioxide. It's

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Speaker 1: freezing to Yeah, it's also really cold. It's the to

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Speaker 1: go back to the Goldilocks idea. Venus is too hot,

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Speaker 1: Mars is too cold. Earth is just tract and if

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Speaker 1: you had just even a speck of water at the

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Speaker 1: moment that it hit the surface, it would just sizzle

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Speaker 1: and evaporate. Yes. Um. There's also an important point to

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Speaker 1: be made about there, the fact that there's no intact

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic field um Earth as one. It's generated by hydrodynamic

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Speaker 1: convection between the liquid outer core and the solid intercore.

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Speaker 1: And without this shielding we to be exposed to a

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Speaker 1: deadly stream of highly charged particles called the solar winds.

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Speaker 1: So uh, for reasons we don't entirely understand yet, Mars

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Speaker 1: lacks the protection of this electromagnetic field if they haven't,

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Speaker 1: thank you lately. Yeah, they have. Mars has like only

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Speaker 1: remnants of a magnetic field around its solar ice caps.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's it's like not having a roof on

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Speaker 1: the working roof and the mouse we'd have to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to replace the roof. Um. So yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's that that's pretty rough. But there's some potential in

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Speaker 1: Mars there. You know, there there is water on on

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Speaker 1: the on the Martian surface, there's evidence that there used

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Speaker 1: to be quite a bit right right, there's carbon and

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Speaker 1: oxygen in the form of carbon dioxide, and there's nitrogen. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know. The problem is that it's like the atmosphere

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Speaker 1: there's like ninety point three percent carbon dioxide. It's just

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Speaker 1: as a point as episode was it with like a

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Speaker 1: point zero one or something point on Earth? Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then yeah, and also on Mars it's like the oxygen

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Speaker 1: there is point two percent, so really really low. So

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to supplement with oxygen nitrogen obviously, um,

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Speaker 1: if you were to go in terraform. This in earnest

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Speaker 1: also that the rotation rate is on par with the

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Speaker 1: Earth's twenty four hour cycle. Yeah, and it's close enough

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Speaker 1: to the sun to experience seasons, which is always lovely

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Speaker 1: because you want seasons when you live in other worlds.

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Speaker 1: You know, you want to have your winter home on

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Speaker 1: one part in your summer home on the other, so

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Speaker 1: Richard Branson. So, so then this comes to question, what

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Speaker 1: would it take to fix it up, What would it

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Speaker 1: take to get that new roof on it, to bump

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Speaker 1: up the atmosphere, to scrape the horrible wallpaper off the

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Speaker 1: walls of Mars and uh and make it look pretty again. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And there are actually some some very good ideas about this, right.

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Speaker 1: It's good in the sense that they are solutions. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they're based in science. Um. I think for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people like the idea of Like for me,

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Speaker 1: the earliest experience I have with terraforming was seeing I

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Speaker 1: think Aliens and they had the big terraforming stations and

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Speaker 1: I only had a vague idea of what it was doing.

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Speaker 1: That it was like, these giant buildings that are like

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Speaker 1: spitting out smoke are going to somehow transform this world

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Speaker 1: into a place that humans can live on. So the

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Speaker 1: greenhouse gas effect, Yeah, well, a lot of It breaks

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Speaker 1: down to that, like our experience and screwing up our

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Speaker 1: own world crosses over to some of the ideas for

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Speaker 1: making Mars a little more like what we want. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we want like big coal mining factories, which you're seeing,

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Speaker 1: but basically the yeah, they're one of the ideas, the

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Speaker 1: the Aliens model, if you will, is to create these

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Speaker 1: greenhouse gas producing factories. Um you know, they would be uh,

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Speaker 1: the same heating effect that we have here on Earth

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Speaker 1: with greenhouse gases could be reproduced on Mars by setting

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Speaker 1: up sending up hundreds of these factories across the Martians

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Speaker 1: and releasing cfc CFCs methane, carbon dioxide, other greenhouse gases,

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Speaker 1: just pump it into the atmosphere, just basically pollution machines

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Speaker 1: on on Mars to try and it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: on Mars it's like the water is a little too hot,

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Speaker 1: so we'll add some some some cold water to cool

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Speaker 1: the bath down, and on Mars it is the reverse.

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Speaker 1: So that's one scheme. Another involves large orbital mirrors to

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Speaker 1: reflect the sunlight and heat the Martian surface. All right,

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Speaker 1: This would giant mirrors kind of like the ones that

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Speaker 1: the Soviets experimented with for the idea of of of

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Speaker 1: of giving sunlight to dark regions during the winter uh,

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Speaker 1: and these would would concentrate light onto the polar caps

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Speaker 1: and melf the ice. This would release carbon oxide believed

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Speaker 1: to be trapped inside the eyes, and the rise in

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Speaker 1: temperatures would over the years would conceivably release greenhouse gases

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Speaker 1: such as these CFCs and the same that you find

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Speaker 1: in your air conditioner, so like melting polar caps, and

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Speaker 1: then this would all lead to photosynthesis at some point,

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Speaker 1: right for years and years and years, and again we're

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Speaker 1: one of the things I think to think about is,

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Speaker 1: you know, you've had some people say it could take centuries,

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Speaker 1: and you have other people saying it could take thousands

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Speaker 1: and thousands of years. Yeah. One of the important things

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Speaker 1: that when you're talking about changing an atmosphere, you're you

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Speaker 1: get into this whole area of fluid dynamics, you get

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Speaker 1: into the into into just the chaos theory itself. Just

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Speaker 1: refreshure the idea that the chaos theory emerged from the

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Speaker 1: attempt to create more reliable computer models of weather, of

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Speaker 1: of how our atmosphere works, and the chaos theories is

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Speaker 1: that you can only figure it out so far and

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Speaker 1: then it just it just breaks down. So we're up

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Speaker 1: against that and trying to figure out how to tinker

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Speaker 1: with another world at fear we don't fully understand how

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Speaker 1: our own works, or we at least the thing we

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Speaker 1: understand the most about it is that it's incredibly complex.

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Speaker 1: So there are a lot of what ifs that end

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Speaker 1: up falling into it in different people's figures. Will you

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Speaker 1: know will say decades and another will say centuries. Well,

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Speaker 1: and then there's the whole dark matter out in space,

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Speaker 1: the fact that we don't really know what exactly it

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Speaker 1: is and how it affects planets, right so, and then

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Speaker 1: when we actually talked about this yesterday about the possibility

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Speaker 1: of smashing ammonia heavy asteroids into the planet to sort

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Speaker 1: of create the same greenhouse gas level effect. And this

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Speaker 1: is another one that's UH that Robert Zubrin UH is

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Speaker 1: really fond of and presented in his book A Case

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Speaker 1: from Mars. And Zubrin is a really interesting guy. I

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Speaker 1: get to interview him for a Discovery News article and

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Speaker 1: I have I don't think I've ever interviewed somebody just

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Speaker 1: so passionate about their thing, and I haven't plenty of

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Speaker 1: people are really passionate about their their topics and their

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Speaker 1: their their life's work. But Zubrin is in He's just

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Speaker 1: like we should be on Mars yesterday. Yeah. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: listened to the audiophile and at the risk of um,

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Speaker 1: Robert Zubern like reaching out to me and saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're the devil incarnate. That dude is a fanatic. But

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Speaker 1: I kind of like that because you need those people,

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Speaker 1: You need that passionate level in order to be like,

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Speaker 1: we gotta do this, you know, yeah, I mean, you

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Speaker 1: got it. You need extremist or and and and and

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Speaker 1: extremely passionate people to push these ideas into the public mindset.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise there's too many people would just not listen, right

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Speaker 1: And and also you know, I know this is a

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Speaker 1: little bit of an aside. I was thinking about him,

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Speaker 1: and I was thinking about his role and if even

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Speaker 1: if this doesn't happen right now, I mean he he

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Speaker 1: very well maybe like the da Vinci in the sense

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Speaker 1: of his time and that you know, da Vinci had

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Speaker 1: all these drawings for flight, but obviously the technology didn't

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Speaker 1: exist until much much later. And you know, who knows

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Speaker 1: people could go down in history be like that super

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Speaker 1: and guy was righteous. He knew it I was talking

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Speaker 1: about and he was he was ahead of his time.

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Speaker 1: We should have in on Mars in the twentieth century.

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Speaker 1: Right that being said, let's talk about the ammonia ridden

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Speaker 1: aster which is a little bit creepy. Well, it's it's

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Speaker 1: one of the another one of these ideas. This is

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Speaker 1: very catastrophic sounding because you're talking messing with the planet's atmosphere.

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Speaker 1: It's it's very reminiscent of some of the the scenarios

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Speaker 1: we look at with things like nuclear winter or or

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Speaker 1: um or you know, asteroids impacting the Earth um And

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Speaker 1: this basically boils down to the belief that if you

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Speaker 1: hurled these large I see asteroids that were just full

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Speaker 1: of ammonia at marks, they would produce tons of greenhouse

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Speaker 1: gases and water. Okay, so you would need nuclear thermal

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Speaker 1: rocket engines and you'd have to somehow attach these to

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Speaker 1: an asteroid from the outer Solar System, and then the

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Speaker 1: rockets would move the asteroids in about four kilometers per

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Speaker 1: second for a period of about a decade before the

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Speaker 1: rockets would shut off and allow the ten billion tons

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Speaker 1: of asteroids to glide unpowered. Towards the Martian surface, and

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Speaker 1: the energy released upon impact would be about a hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty million mega wats of power. Yeah yeah, and

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Speaker 1: can you imagine the dust settling from that? I mean

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Speaker 1: it would take centuries and centuries. And it's not that

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Speaker 1: you mentioned dust. That's another scheme that's out there is

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Speaker 1: to take material from a sea class asteroid or a

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Speaker 1: Martian moon and spread it over Mars polar caps. So

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Speaker 1: this would be um and another kind of drastic global

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Speaker 1: warming type of scheme coated with dust. The poles would

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Speaker 1: then absorb more solar radiation because remember you have you know,

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Speaker 1: you wear a dark shirt on a sunny day, you're

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Speaker 1: warmer than if you wear a white shirt. It's the

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Speaker 1: same scenario. Yeah, They absorb more sunlight, causing them to

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Speaker 1: heat up, release carbon dioxide, atmospheric atmospheric pressure increases, and

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Speaker 1: you'd have the greenhouse effect, and eventually we get it

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Speaker 1: up to the point where Arnold Schwartzenhager's eyeballs would explode

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Speaker 1: if he took his filmet off. That's the ultimate goal

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Speaker 1: in all things, but but also in terraform, all right,

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Speaker 1: So I mean I guess that that is the point

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Speaker 1: where then people could be supplemented with oxygen and nitrogen

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Speaker 1: to a certain degree, but not like full on like

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Speaker 1: they would need right now. Yeah, any of these schemes

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Speaker 1: you're looking at, it's not you wouldn't be able to

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Speaker 1: turn Mars into Idaho in a decade or center. You know,

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Speaker 1: there would be this long, slow process of where it

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Speaker 1: becomes more Idaho esque. Yeah, And I guess that that

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Speaker 1: sort of plays into the outmoded idea that this would

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Speaker 1: be a population outlet for for Earth. Right, Like, if

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Speaker 1: we reached billion people by the time we actually by

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Speaker 1: the time we reached twenty billion people, you'd have to

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Speaker 1: assume that we would have had some sort of solution

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Speaker 1: in place, because by the time that you can actually

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Speaker 1: have Mars habitable, it would be thousands and thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands of years from now. Yeah, So that's one of

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Speaker 1: the arguments of like, hey, let's not try to this

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Speaker 1: shouldn't probably be our backup plan for humanity. Right. Plus,

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Speaker 1: I I like to or I don't like to think this,

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Speaker 1: but it seems like if the more we were we

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Speaker 1: moved towards potentially having more world peace, that's just going

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Speaker 1: to get in the way of people needing to leave here,

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Speaker 1: so we do. If we got to the point where

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Speaker 1: we have the technology to go to other worlds and

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Speaker 1: seed them with our people, you might want to make

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Speaker 1: conditions on Earth particularly hellish, and then people would have

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Speaker 1: a reason to flee right right right, same models the

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Speaker 1: early or just a good reason to make tons and

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Speaker 1: tons of money, which is another huge factor. Um you

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Speaker 1: get into like mining on on Mars for healing them

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Speaker 1: three and things like that, then you could conceivably see

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Speaker 1: it being a possibility. Yeah. Yeah, Halliburton's all over this. Um.

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Speaker 1: So this also kind of plays into the ethics, right,

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Speaker 1: there's um and there are there's actually like kind of

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Speaker 1: like a science gang war going on here, and it's

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Speaker 1: like the reds and the Greens. I'm like ketting, like

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Speaker 1: the reds are the are the folks are Like you

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Speaker 1: know what, maybe we should look at Mars and try

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Speaker 1: to keep it intact as much as possible and still

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Speaker 1: study it, but keep the integrity of it because maybe

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Speaker 1: there's something that it's ecosystem can tell us, and if

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Speaker 1: we were to try to tear a format, we would

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Speaker 1: sort of pollute that possibility of learning more out of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's the idea that there might be some you know,

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Speaker 1: little signs of what life may have been like on Mars,

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Speaker 1: if there was life on Mars at some point in

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Speaker 1: the past, that those those secrets are buried and those

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Speaker 1: secrets are there to be found, provided that we don't

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Speaker 1: completely contaminate the place. It seems like a controlled crime scene.

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Speaker 1: You don't want the bumbling local detectives to go and

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Speaker 1: local police have to come in and touch everything, because

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Speaker 1: the big city detective he needs to get in there

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Speaker 1: with all its high tech gear and figure out what's what. Right, Like,

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't want to introduce an invasive microbial species that

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Speaker 1: would just you know, lay waste to everything, because then

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Speaker 1: we'd be like, oh, we didn't learn anything really about Mars. Now,

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Speaker 1: we're just trying to fit our earthly paradigm, you know,

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Speaker 1: into Mars this other thing which we don't really know

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Speaker 1: about yet. So those are the reds, yes, and then

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Speaker 1: the greens, of which Zubrin is definitely a member. Um.

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Speaker 1: I mean, his whole thing is like this is actually

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Speaker 1: he put it really nicely in the interview I did

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Speaker 1: with him, um and a phrase used to this exact

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Speaker 1: example of many times. But he's like, if you were

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Speaker 1: to make the argument, hey, let's take um, let's take

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Speaker 1: Earth and let's turn it into a barren, lifeless world.

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Speaker 1: Let's do that. Let's let's get started this project right away,

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Speaker 1: you would say, dude, you're crazy. Don't turn don't turn

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Speaker 1: the planet, this living, lush planet into a desert. And

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Speaker 1: his thing is then the reverse is true too, that

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Speaker 1: the argument like, look at Marks. It's dead, it's empty,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing living there. It's a waste land. We have

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Speaker 1: a responsibility to turn it into a green world. See.

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Speaker 1: And that's the problem I have with it because it's

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00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 1: like absolutism, right, It's like it's dead. And I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, because NASA actually has said, well we

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Speaker 1: you know, there are these methane plumes that keep kind

399
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Speaker 1: of unfurling in front of us, making us realize that

400
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Speaker 1: there's methane being released, which kind of points us in

401
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Speaker 1: the direction that there may be some sort of life form,

402
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 1: you know, at least on a microbial level, and so

403
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: we can't necessarily anounced it dead. Yeah. I guess it's

404
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Speaker 1: kind of like if there was like a house in

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Speaker 1: a neighborhood and it was like really crappy, and someone

406
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: was maybe argument, hey, we need to fix this up.

407
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Speaker 1: There's like there's it's doing nothing. It's just a complete ruin.

408
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,239
Speaker 1: It's you know, foreclosed on. Let's let's get somebody in there,

409
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Speaker 1: let's get let's get this thing torn down and rebuild

410
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Speaker 1: or something. And then you can make the argument, well,

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Speaker 1: I fare all cats are living there those farall cats

412
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Speaker 1: need to live somewhere, so why not this house or

413
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Speaker 1: there's something making some argument that that that something natural

414
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Speaker 1: may be going on that we shouldn't stamp on just yet. Yeah,

415
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 1: or they might say there's a tiffany stained window in there.

416
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Speaker 1: You know, you can't knock that exactly. Okay, that's an

417
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 1: even better example. Yeah, yeah, So I don't know if

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Speaker 1: that's I think it's a very fascinating uh topic. And

419
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Speaker 1: I do really like the idea of technology coming out

420
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Speaker 1: of the maybe the thought experiment. But obviously it's something

421
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Speaker 1: that UM that we're at least in the United States,

422
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 1: we don't necessarily have the economic power to put a

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Speaker 1: lot of money into UM, particularly since some of these plans,

424
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: like there's a four hundred fifty billion dollar plan rolled

425
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Speaker 1: out in the Bush one era that was like, Hey,

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00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: we can build this orbital platform on Mars and launch

427
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: this and do this, and Bush was like, yeah, I

428
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: think so. And there have been subsequent plans and facts

429
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 1: you Ben came up with a couple of pretty good

430
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: ones that are more in like the twenty fifty billion

431
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 1: dollar range. Still that's yeah, that's still a lot of money.

432
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's sad to think. I mean, at

433
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 1: some point the past, the money made the the argument

434
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 1: that that and I forget who was saying, maybe it's

435
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 1: just a friend of us talking to me. They were like,

436
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 1: we're not gonna We're not going to see a personal

437
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: land on Mars in our lifetime. Now, whether that's true

438
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 1: or not remains to be seen, but just the prospects

439
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: kind of sad because you grow up watching all the

440
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: science fiction and and hearing all this science and you know,

441
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,120
Speaker 1: we've been talking about landing on Mars for well over

442
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: half a century. I mean, we've been talking about it

443
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 1: longer than that, but we've had more concrete plans in

444
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 1: that time period, and to think it it's not going

445
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 1: to happen is kind of depressing because you you kind

446
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: of grow up thinking that this is where you're your

447
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: life is going to go you know, yeah, yeah, And

448
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 1: hence zuber In in his his impatience and saying, look,

449
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: we do have the technology, we could do it. Yeah,

450
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: I mean it's possible. Yeah. And of course the more

451
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 1: we learn, though, you know it, the more the situation

452
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: comes complicated. Because there's a two thousand ten study from

453
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: the Swedish Institute of Space Physics in the University of Leicester,

454
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: and they found that double solar radiation waves periodically strip

455
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: away thirty of the sparse Martian atmosphere, so that these

456
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: waves occur when one solar wave overtakes another to produce

457
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: a single like super wave. And uh, and so what

458
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: little atmosphere remains on the planet is due to comics,

459
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: comic strikes, and the occasional melting of polar ice. So

460
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: even if we so, it kind of creates this this

461
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: horrible situation. It's cut the money pit, like the more

462
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 1: you're going to rebuild it and then stuff is just

463
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: gonna bust it down. So I'm not saying we shouldn't try,

464
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: but but it it's a little disheartening to have that

465
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: added bit of information. Well, and I was thinking too

466
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: that astrobiology, which we've talked about before. Is still such

467
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: a young field in terms of the new technologies it

468
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: has at its disposal. You know what, what might it

469
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: be able to uncover in the next ten years to

470
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more about Mars and how

471
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: to look at that situation and look at terror forming

472
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: and new So I don't think that we have all

473
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: the data in what we're talking about. You know. Yeah,

474
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: we should definitely not shut the case, shut the lid

475
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: on the case just yet. I like to think it

476
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 1: will happen someday. We'll see, we'll see. Let's bring on

477
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: the mail. Yes, we do have a couple of bits

478
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: of mail here from some people who have some experience

479
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: with doppelgangers calling back to our Defeat Your Doppelgangers podcast. Uh,

480
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: first we're gonna hear from Matt. Matt says, Hey, guys,

481
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: love the podcast. Just listen to your show, Defeat Your Doppelgangers.

482
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: This one really hit home with me because young kid,

483
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: I always had the impression that there are were multiple

484
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: copies of myself hanging around my hometown. I never felt

485
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: there was any malicious intent or an evil clone. I

486
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: always knew in the back of my mind that around

487
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: any corner I might bump into a copy of myself.

488
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: I never found one, but to this day I still

489
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,719
Speaker 1: have a feeling that they're out there somewhere. Also, as

490
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: a kid, I always thought that the mirror in my

491
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: bathroom or any mirror was actually a view into the

492
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: closest relative neighborhood dimension, that is to say looking that

493
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: is to say, a looking glass into the closest dimension

494
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: to ours. The image staring back at me was not

495
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: a reflection but the other meat from the next dimension

496
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: looking in his mirror. Uh yeah, so um, Matt, thanks

497
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: for sharing that. That's uh, that's pretty interesting. Yeah. Yeah,

498
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: my mind is a little bit low there. Um. I

499
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: also wanted to share it too. There's a comment by

500
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: Jane on Facebook and she was talking about our Neandertals

501
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: episode um, and she actually made a really good point

502
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: that in that episode we kept ferring to Neanderthals is

503
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: he There's like no mention of any female in Neandertals,

504
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: which of course we know that existed. Um. In fact,

505
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: that the mitochondrial DNA, and that tells us so much

506
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: today about what went on with Neandertals. Um, they the

507
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: possessors of it. But uh, and she also points out

508
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: that when we were talking about them making glue and

509
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: so on and so forth, we kept talking about he

510
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: knowing it. How about. You know what, that's a really

511
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: good point to make. Thank you, Jane, thank you for

512
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: keeping us sharp, because you know it's kind of hard

513
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: sometimes you fall back on that that old um he

514
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: pronoun is a catch all. So I just wanted to say, yes,

515
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: the menatols the ladies, they were definitely a big part

516
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: of that group. And it was interesting because a lot

517
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: of the research that I came across, at least and

518
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: especially the stuff that was produced online, shows this sort

519
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: of patriarchal paradigm of the men making the glue, and

520
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 1: like the women going through the men's hair and grooming them,

521
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: and the men barked neandertal orders out of them. So anyway, again,

522
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: thank you, Jane, and I love these comments that you

523
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: guys give us, you know, the email on Facebook, and

524
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: you guys really give us some good platforms like stuff

525
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,719
Speaker 1: for our minds to chew on as well. Indeed, one

526
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: more quick Doubel ganger Eric writes, and he says, I've

527
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: never met anyone who could be my twin, but I

528
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: have had some problems with my name. UM my name

529
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: doppelganger is in a doppelganger that shares one's name. I

530
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: moved to Portland, Oregon, in two thousand five from the

531
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: San Francisco Bay area. When I apply for a library

532
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: card here, I was surprised to learn that there were

533
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: unpaid overdue books under my name. Turns out someone with

534
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: my name please don't read it on the air and

535
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: gives it gives its full name. UM is also living

536
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: in It's also living in the suburb of Portland's. The

537
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: town has a population of a little less than twenty

538
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: three people. So yeah, that happens probably more frequently we

539
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: encounter with the individuals to share our exact name, and

540
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: especially if you end up googling your own name like

541
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,239
Speaker 1: I do, way too much. You know. It's like when

542
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: am I gonna overtake The Murder Robert Lamb? When am

543
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: I going to overtake the The he Man the animated

544
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: series animator? Yeah? Mine mine? Uh? I think kind of

545
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: like Julie Douglas has made a triathlete somewhere in Austria

546
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: or something. I can't remember having googled myself for a

547
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 1: long time, but I was like, go Julie Douglas. Yeah,

548
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: that the Julie douglas Is of the world need to

549
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: stick together and make it work right. Yeah. Yeah, just

550
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: still a little fist bump tea cans down there. Julie

551
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: Douglass is well cool. If you have any little tidbits

552
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: to add, or just want to interact with us, then

553
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: head on over to Facebook or Twitter. You'll find us

554
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: a Blow the Mind on both of those. We keep

555
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: that updated with all sorts of good stuff, and you

556
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: can always drop us a line at Blow the Mind

557
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: at how stuff Works dot com. For more on this

558
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com.

559
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast

560
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: icon in the upper right corner of our homepage. The

561
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: House Stuff Works iPhone app has a RYE. Download it

562
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: today on iTunes. Could you leave it's for me or