WEBVTT - George Stephanopoulos 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:09.760 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:15.960 My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:20.560 hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:27.280 their careers, what relationships influenced their work. George Stephanopolis was 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:33.080 communications director for Clinton's presidential campaign. Governor Clinton has a 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:37.520 character problem, but I take it that you Clinton has 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.240 no smart and maybe a little too handsome for the job. 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:47.080 Stephanopolis handled political fire storms calmly and with confidence, said 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:49.920 that he had problems right and he he has talked 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.360 about the draft and to some people as a character problem. 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.240 Bill Clinton's passed his character tests throughout his life and 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:57.960 throughout this campaign, and he's shown it through his commitments 0:00:58.000 --> 0:00:59.920 to real fights and what he's gonna do in his campaign. 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.760 After the election, he became Clinton's White House Communications director 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:09.200 and then the President's Senior Advisor for Policy and strategy. Today, 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.839 at fifty four, he is chief anchor for ABC News, 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:17.000 anchor of ABC's Good Morning America, and host of ABC's 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:22.200 This Week with George Stephanopoulos. If you've read his autobiography 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:25.680 All to Human, you know there was little in Stephanopolis's 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:29.280 early life that would foretell his later successes. There was 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:31.560 no idea when I was a kid. I mean, to 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:33.120 the center was an idea. It was I was going 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.760 to go into my family's business, which I would have 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.960 been a priest, my father, my grandfather, my uncle, my godfather. 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:40.880 But I sort of knew when I was in high 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:45.640 school that wasn't gonna happen. And after that, I was 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.960 always interested in public affairs and politics, and you know, 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.400 we talked about current affairs at home, but I didn't 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:56.200 really know what I wanted to do. I would say 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.440 until my I was sort of out of college, and 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.320 college I was doing both journalist him and politics. I 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:05.520 was a radio broadcaster, sportscaster actually, but also had an 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.720 internship which did really make a difference for me. I 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.520 went in my junior college, I went and interned from 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:15.200 my local congresswoman, and I kind of got the bug on. 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.280 You know, I came from a suburban Cleveland high school, 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.480 had a good group of friends, but it wasn't people 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.720 weren't That's why I was born. But I was living 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:31.160 in Cleveland, Ohio at the time, and uh that you know, 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:33.560 that wasn't what people were interested in. And then you 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:35.760 go to d C and there's all these young people 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.480 who kind of care and talk and fight and debate 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.280 about the same things. And that was really exciting as well. 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.200 So I started out in politics, and uh, actually, when 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.520 I finished graduate school, I I was trying to think, 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.000 should I now go journalism or politics more full time? 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:55.000 I was about twenty five then, and uh, I actually 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:59.080 applied to ABC News, applied to Nightline and got a 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:03.320 very kind but very terse, one line rejection letter from 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.960 Rick Kaplan. At nine Line, I got hired by my 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.960 member of Congress, had Finn to be he was, Yeah, 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:12.600 he had been at ABC for a long time and 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.120 it was his copple then and I got my jobs 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:19.800 in politics, and one thing led to another there and 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.640 I loved it and was happy to do it. Uh 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.560 And it really was passionate about it. When I left 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:31.280 the White House in nine first, early I was I 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.800 guess I was what thirty five, thirty six? Then I 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:41.600 felt much older and I know why, oh yeah, I mean, 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.800 you know, White House hears are dog years multiplied. But 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.480 I also knew I had a better sense of what 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:50.280 I didn't want to be than what I wanted to 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.480 be after I left the White House, I knew I 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.680 didn't want to be someone who just hung around Washington 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:01.120 trading off of what you'd done forever. And I knew 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.520 that in order to feel my age again, I had 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:05.480 to start a different career. And whose idea was it 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.720 to ABC? I think part of the reason, probably the 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.280 biggest reason I went to ABC, is when I met 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.440 with Ruinardge. I got what they called the full Ruin, 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:15.400 which is, you know, you brought you in and it 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:17.240 was will be the last time I saw him pretty much, 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.520 but you know, sold me on ABC. And one of 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:24.039 the pitches he made is that we have, uh, you know, 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.240 a pretty good history of taking people who had who 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:31.760 had been in politics and actually training them to do journalism. 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:38.520 Diane Sawyer although she had come later, but also coach Nixon. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.080 and it was it was a good pitch. I didn't 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:44.280 know when I started that I would, you know, end 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.520 up going full time, but I knew I had the opportunity. 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:52.920 And so when you started you started ABC win January 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.120 commentator and Charlie Gibson on that first day was the 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:57.960 inauguration coverage gave me kind of a hard time do 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:02.160 you know why? Yeah, I yeah, absolutely got it from 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:03.520 all of them. I got it from I got it 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.520 from Charlie a little bit. I got it from Ted Copple, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:07.440 who once came of office and just looked me in 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:09.440 now and asked me why I'm here and whether I 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:11.600 really felt I could, you know, sort of do the job. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:16.599 Be fair and and be objective. They were fair. Oh 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:20.039 definitely got hazed a little bit from by Peter, but 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.160 he was but you know, I they gave also gave 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.560 me the chance to prove myself. And and did you 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.440 worry that you could be fair? I didn't worry about it. 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:35.960 But I realized that it was the only way if 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:37.720 I was committed to doing this full time, it was 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:39.000 the only way to do it. And I'll tell you 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:42.560 what actually worked for me, And this is probably different 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:46.880 from people who grow up and begin their career as journalists, 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:53.960 is I couldn't pretend that I didn't have personal opinions. 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:59.040 I couldn't pretend I wasn't a democratic paid it right 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:03.120 and and one I accepted that as opposed to trying 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.520 to be the journalists. And some journalists don't vote, and 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.440 you know, are so rigorous about We're not going to 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.960 allow any part of our life to show that kind 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:14.719 of uh choosing of one side or another. I sort 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:18.120 of accepted that and then said, but my job is 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:22.520 to analyze things and report on them and tell people, 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.240 with the benefit of my experience, help them put this 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.480 all into perspective and then they can go make up 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.520 their own minds. And by by not pretending that I 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.000 was someone else, it freed me up inside. But I 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.200 want to get to later on the nature of what 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.520 it is to analyze things from a journalistic standpoint. But 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:43.160 I want to stay with this track of this. So 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.840 you write the book, and I'm willing to bet you 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:49.520 keep the gloves on. You write the book, and you're 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.360 very kind of cautious what you write. But nonetheless, people 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:53.840 viewed when you wrote the book that you kind of 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:58.240 you you had some um rigorously honest opinions of the 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.479 Clintons in your time there. And did you feel when 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:02.920 the book came out, because I know that I would 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.520 feel this way that in one sense, you've done enough 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.880 of that in the book already, so now that when 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:09.880 you're on TV, did it make you kind of cautious 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:11.720 and you kind of pulled your punches on the air. 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:14.800 But no, I mean, it's now what was happening then 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:19.360 is and this was actually, you know, part of the journey. UM. 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:21.120 I decided to write the book when I first left 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.480 the White House, and it was supposed to be a 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:32.040 relatively lighthearted but honest kind of adventure story of this, 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:34.800 you know, your life, my life, and you know, and 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:37.760 that had a you know, quite a happy ending. And 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:41.800 actually and I worked on the book throughout and it 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:48.400 was in um whenever it was whatever January that all 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.840 the Monica lewhisky stuff broke, and I was called on 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.080 the day of broke. I remember again, I think I 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:56.520 know I was in Alabama. I was going to try 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:57.760 to I was gonna say the city, and I'm not 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.800 positive it was Birmingham or Montgomery, but I in Alabama 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.920 that morning. I had spoken at a college, and when 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:05.520 all this stuff broken, I had to go on Good 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.040 Morning America that morning and talk about it. And one 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:13.880 of the promises I had made myself when I started 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.360 to be a commentator was not that I would disavow 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:20.240 by any means I don't think it was honest my 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.440 my previous views, but that what I owed the audience 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.920 was to sort of tell them the same kinds of 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.120 things I would say if this were a meeting inside 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.360 the White House, like you know, what does this mean? 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:34.840 Which I felt was a way to be true to 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:39.400 my beliefs, but also to give an added perspective. And uh, 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.520 you know, I I saw that stuff come out that 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.880 that morning and I had actually I said what I thought, 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:49.800 which was true. I said, if these revelations, if these charges, 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.200 if these accusations are true, if I think I said, 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:55.880 if a couple of times, uh, they're serious and they 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.160 could lead to impeachment. Did you know they were true? 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:05.760 I didn't know. It was you know, it was compartmentalized, 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:07.840 you know. I mean, whatever he did, he was good 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:12.120 at it. But the thing was that was a sort 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:18.199 of a my first taste of while even when I 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.319 felt I was just sort of laying it out as 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.640 I saw it, that was seen as you know, hugely controversial. 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.160 You know, people said I was portraying and all that 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.200 kind of stuff. I didn't believe, so, but it was 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.320 I got that sense of whoa this is. It's not 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.000 always going to be no matter what you're saying. It's 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:37.880 damned if you do damned if you don't in that content, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:39.640 because when I read the book, and I remember it 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.280 came out, people said there was that tone of betrayal, 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:44.840 and that's a you know, I understand people who have 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:49.000 that position on principle that you know, if you work 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:50.720 for a White House, you shouldn't write about it, or 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.480 you know, you should wait twenty years or something. I understand. 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.439 I don't agree with that position, but I I understand it. 0:09:57.720 --> 0:09:59.560 Once that happened, I had written about a hundred fifty 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:01.840 pages by that point, and I had to throw him out. 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:05.320 Not because the incidents had changed, but you know, the 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:10.160 filter definitely changes. I mean they once when something like 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.480 that happens, you have to go back and look look 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.240 back at everything through the filter of what you now know, 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.240 even though you still try to be honest at the moment. 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:21.920 That's exactly it. And I mean, I don't want to 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:25.160 ask you to revisit that and talk about your experience then, 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.680 but what effect did that have on you long term 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.480 in your your view of politics, Because for me, that 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:34.040 was the beginning, not Watergate. You know, it's it's so 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:38.760 interesting Clinton impeachment that began to me to slowly turn 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:41.400 my view of American scene For me, it felt more 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.719 like a progression. You know what. One of the one 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.360 of my my takeaways from that whole time is, you know, 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:50.640 I remember in those men I worked for Clinton for 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:56.880 about six years. Liberals, real liberals, always distrusted him, um, 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.240 you know, especially after the ninety four election and the 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.920 child family and there, and welfare reform and all those things. 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.559 But it was somehow was the act of impeachment that 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:10.600 actually galvanized and united all Democrats around him because it 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:16.800 was seen as overstepping and and I think that the assassination, yeah, 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:23.160 political assassination, and it I think that was one time 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:27.560 when the majority of the country, or enough of majority 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.000 of the country, even those who deplored what what President 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:35.920 Clinton did, felt that, you know, this is going too far. 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.439 It's hard to imagine this now, but I mean that 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.400 in the course of impeachment, as the president is being impeached, 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.840 his party picks up seats in the House. That's how 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.040 that's how much the country jacks. But I don't see 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.400 that as the moment. I see that as a building. 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:52.760 You know, this is this kind of thing had been 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:58.080 building up for for some time, and I saw, well, 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.679 the public of our opportunity, the intense partisanship, and you know, 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:07.320 the the the idea of hesitate to use your your word, assassination, 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:11.040 but where everyone was looking for a scalp all the time, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:15.480 the Nixon that's possible, but you know when you look 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:17.920 back and then Republicans will say, we'll wait a second, no, 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.240 look what happened to Bork And that was really the 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:24.400 original sin going through his records, going through his movie 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:28.840 records was where it all Thomas began. Thomas then comes up, 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:33.600 and it's just one thing builds after. Were you glad 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.160 you weren't there when all that was coming down? I mean, 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.559 that's kind of a question that answers like you wonder 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:41.880 what it must have been like to I mean, my 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:43.880 admiration for him is that he survived. I really don't 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:45.559 give a damn what people do in their personal lives. 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:47.960 What's the preferred way for the president to take the 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.800 edge off? You wanted to drink, you wanted to take 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.719 prescriptive medication. If the way he takes the edge off 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.160 as he likes women, then I'm like, okay, I'll take 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.160 that of the three, choose one of the three. And 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:04.439 I think I'm not asking I'm not asking you to chime. 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.360 All this stuff was always people's behavior and their and 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.560 their personal lives that never really really bothered me. But 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.320 I also think that when I see him, I I 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.920 just have this tremendous He's like Chuck Yeager to me, 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:17.920 how you crash that jet fighter and you get out 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:23.160 and you're alive? He survived and and just never so 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.559 so goddamn that is the thing. And you know, he 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.160 used to tell this story about getting pushed down as 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.520 a little kid, just always bouncing bouncing right back up 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:38.280 and in so many ways that that resilience is is 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.040 a big story of his life and his presidency. I mean, 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.280 you know, and that's a great you know, it's it's 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.640 it's an invaluable political strength you wanted in your presidence 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.320 because every presdent is going to make a mistake. So obviously, 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.040 when you were on one side of the aisle, so 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:53.720 to speak, and though you came over there, do you 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.520 find yourself doing things that you hated when other reporters did? 0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.880 You know, I think I am both helped and hurt 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.800 by having spent the you know, the first twenty years 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:07.079 of my career in politics. Um, I think it helps 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.400 me in that. You know, I have been inside those 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.600 rooms where the decisions are made, and I do tend 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:19.000 to believe that most politicians public servants most of the 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.160 time are well motivated trying to, you know, do the 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.960 best they can according to their vision and what right 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.360 and wrong is. Um. And you know, there are times 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:34.920 when so I don't have that that deep ingrained skepticism 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.920 gene that, you know, if you're gonna be a great 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:39.880 investigative reporter, you kind of need. I think that kind 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.080 of you know, sometimes it handicaps me in that way. 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:47.240 On the other hand, having that empathy and understanding, I 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.520 think sometimes gives me a better sense of how things 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:56.560 are are gonna play out. UM And no, I'm I 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.000 have tried to be you know even you know, I 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.280 do the Sunday Show and I'll ask tough, direct questions 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:08.280 and follow up. How many times have you interviewed Obama? Oh? Gosh, several, 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:10.840 you know a lot. I mean, I I don't know 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.840 the exact number. Your experience working with in the White House, 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.560 What what kind of color does that cast? What kind 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:19.720 of a shade does that cast on your view with 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:21.960 him and what he's done. I'm gonna ask you to. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.080 I'm gonna kind of ask you to evaluate him, but 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.800 I'm asking you more to. But what's been like covering him? 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:33.120 You know, it's I think he's been, you know, a 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.880 president of pretty momentous times. Um. I've had some very 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:40.880 contentious interviews with him. But I come at it from 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:45.600 the perspective of, you know, again, he's he's gonna beat 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.680 you if you try to take a cheap shot, uh, 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.720 in interview, and I think that basically you haven't done that. 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:58.480 You've seen other people do that. Yeah, and you know easily. 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:03.840 But we ended up getting into pretty long contentious argument. Um. 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.360 It was during the health care fight we got into 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.840 this argument. I was questioning about the idea that the 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.960 mandate was attacks he said, well, you know, it's it's 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:18.840 forcing people, you know, the money to spend their money. Um. 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.600 And he just was not having it. And we went 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.120 at it for like you know, in TV as an eternity, 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:28.600 it's like twelve minutes and uh, I probably just exaggerated, 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:35.320 may have been six, but went back and forth and 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.200 and he was so insistent on it, and I was 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.920 insistent on my side. And I even had a dictionary 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.600 definition of tacks and the minute the camera went off, 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.320 he said, you lost when you pulled out the definition. 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:50.520 And you know, I get the last word on this story. 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.280 This is you know, the story that makes me look good. 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.240 Of course, when they went to the Supreme Court, the 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.480 way they won the argument was by arguing that the 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:58.880 mandate was attacks and that's how they got John Roberts 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:04.480 wrote and said, when you said, you're welcome, but no, 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:06.280 I you know, I think he you know, he came 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:11.160 in and time of incredible crisis, the worst economic crisis 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.199 of our adult lifetime. I don't think I would have 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.359 made every choice that he made through that. And in fact, 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:21.320 if I'm honest with myself, I probably would have been 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.159 on the side in the White House arguing, you know, 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.080 maybe you shouldn't do healthcare now. But you know he 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:32.080 puts and and and and and and he got it through. 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:36.000 Um uh. But I you know, I I'm a little 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.600 wistful about him leaving when he's done, because I don't 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:41.919 think he's been given enough credit. He just hasn't. I 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.480 think he said, when you presidents are in their time, 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:46.840 that's dude. You're very right. You're you're far wiser than 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:48.439 I am about that. I just feel like that. And 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.440 it's not about race. I just feel like I feel 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:55.000 that people's fatigued. They're fatigued. Americans are fatigued by war. 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.600 They're fatigued by UH and and and you know, and 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:03.760 this is also a progression. And the the he came 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.080 in making a promise that could not be kept. This 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:12.160 idea that you can bring together the country in this 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:17.240 environment was is fanciful. Um. But it's that's that progression 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.960 of seeing the hardening of partisan lines over the last generation, 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:23.800 I think makes it. You know, you sort of look 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:28.040 at when's the last second term president who you know? 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.639 Clinton got it, I guess towards the very end. But 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.840 he was also impeached that you know, it doesn't have 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.040 the whole country by the time he's finished disappearing victory 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.520 from you know, you know, sick and tired. So with you, 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:45.240 with you, with your from your standpoint? Now, are you 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:49.919 excited about or not excited about her? Indifferent to another 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.600 Bush Clinton? I'm fascinated by the whole idea and number 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:59.560 one and number two, I'm I what I'm most interested 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.240 in is seeing how the country reacts. Part of me 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.920 just can't believe it. I mean, my whole adult life. 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.720 There's you know, kind of Bush and Clintons running front. 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.800 What is it? What is the statistics? You know, you 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:15.400 go back to nineteen fifty two and there I don't 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.240 think there's been a ticket on the Republican side that 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:23.640 didn't have a busher in Nixon. Huh, Nixon fifty two, 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:34.399 fifty six, he loses, it's seventy two, and then you 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:39.560 don't have seven seventy six Still, then he's on him, 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:41.840 and then he's on as the veep. Then he's the 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:46.280 present eight. Then this then loses to Clinton, Clinton, and 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:47.960 then he's back in two thousand, then he's back in 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:50.400 there's a couple of skips. It was that there's where 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:55.000 there's not an incumbent, the open ones incredible. But but 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:56.960 but and you know, there's a lot of evidence out 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.960 there that people complain about it. On the one hand, 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.800 there was a fascinating focus group that Peter Hart broadcast 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:06.280 out of Denver and and Dan Boss wrote about in 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.840 the Washington Post. And these people talk about Bushes and 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.320 Clinton's and you know, to be fair in this one, 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.159 they were slightly more negative towards Bush. But there was 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:20.680 this fatigue on on both sides, and you hear that anecdotally, 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:27.199 but it doesn't seem to move people's opinions. Romney decided 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.600 to bow out. I was just I was more surprised 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.760 that he took the jump to get to come back 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:39.160 in because he had been burned, because he had had 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.640 his chance. Because he had he and his family had 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:45.399 said in such emphatic ways. I mean, what was an 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:48.520 Romney's eleven knows in such an emphatic ways that they 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:51.720 would never do it again because he was so crushed 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.560 by the lass. Although that can cut both ways, um, 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.719 but they were making that quote about that without reciting 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:01.280 that thing about Reaga came back won the third time 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.040 Reagan and Nixon won on his third time. I was 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.879 disappointed that Romney didn't run because as a as a 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:09.800 moderate Democrat myself, I'd say to myself, he's the one 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.000 I could have lived with, like when McCain ran, until 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:13.760 he picked Palin as a running MANE I thought, if 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:15.040 you want, I could live with that. I'm not going 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.000 to kill myself. You know what I'm saying. There's other 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.359 Republicans that they won. I would have had to. You know, 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:22.159 you saw what happened once he started to run. He 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:24.520 had a fair amount of support, but what that that 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.000 second day he had the Wall Street Journal editorial board 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:42.280 whack him out. Though Stephanopolis is a born commentator, you 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.040 get the sense that he could have done anything in life. 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:49.359 President Clinton once called him a master of the universe. 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:57.200 Take a listen to our archive more in depth conversations 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:02.280 with artists, performers, and newsmakers like Brian Williams. Yes, the 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:05.520 Brian Williams who I talked with back in two thousand. 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.680 Dinner could not start in our household until Walter Cronkite said, 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:14.520 house that's the way it is. Take a listen that. 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:37.480 Here's the thing, Dot Org. I'm at like Baldwin and 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:40.879 you're listening to here's the thing. My guest today is 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:45.080 George Stephanopoulos. He spends his weekday mornings as the anchor 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:49.440 of ABC's Good Morning America, talking with everyone from policymakers 0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:53.200 to YouTube sensations. At first, he wasn't sure it was 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:57.200 such a good fit. They came to me and said, 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:01.679 would you think about it? And it was after, you know, 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:06.760 Charlie had announced he was going to leave and Diane 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:12.720 was going to take his job, and um, I just 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:17.200 said no, and why I liked what I was doing. 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:19.679 I didn't think I could do the other job that 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:24.200 I just didn't think it matched my Absolutely no, and 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:26.520 I was just going to get to the second, tell 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:28.160 the whole thing. You're far more charming than you think. 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:32.360 She was actually saying no, you're not going to do it, 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:36.040 because also we had to. Our girls were marks are 0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:38.280 still pretty young, but they were much younger than we 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:42.320