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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing,

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Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to

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Speaker 1: hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change

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Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work. George Stephanopolis was

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Speaker 1: communications director for Clinton's presidential campaign. Governor Clinton has a

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Speaker 1: character problem, but I take it that you Clinton has

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Speaker 1: no smart and maybe a little too handsome for the job.

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Speaker 1: Stephanopolis handled political fire storms calmly and with confidence, said

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Speaker 1: that he had problems right and he he has talked

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Speaker 1: about the draft and to some people as a character problem.

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Speaker 1: Bill Clinton's passed his character tests throughout his life and

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Speaker 1: throughout this campaign, and he's shown it through his commitments

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Speaker 1: to real fights and what he's gonna do in his campaign.

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Speaker 1: After the election, he became Clinton's White House Communications director

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Speaker 1: and then the President's Senior Advisor for Policy and strategy. Today,

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Speaker 1: at fifty four, he is chief anchor for ABC News,

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Speaker 1: anchor of ABC's Good Morning America, and host of ABC's

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Speaker 1: This Week with George Stephanopoulos. If you've read his autobiography

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Speaker 1: All to Human, you know there was little in Stephanopolis's

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Speaker 1: early life that would foretell his later successes. There was

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Speaker 1: no idea when I was a kid. I mean, to

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Speaker 1: the center was an idea. It was I was going

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Speaker 1: to go into my family's business, which I would have

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Speaker 1: been a priest, my father, my grandfather, my uncle, my godfather.

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Speaker 1: But I sort of knew when I was in high

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Speaker 1: school that wasn't gonna happen. And after that, I was

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Speaker 1: always interested in public affairs and politics, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we talked about current affairs at home, but I didn't

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Speaker 1: really know what I wanted to do. I would say

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Speaker 1: until my I was sort of out of college, and

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Speaker 1: college I was doing both journalist him and politics. I

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Speaker 1: was a radio broadcaster, sportscaster actually, but also had an

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Speaker 1: internship which did really make a difference for me. I

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Speaker 1: went in my junior college, I went and interned from

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Speaker 1: my local congresswoman, and I kind of got the bug on.

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Speaker 1: You know, I came from a suburban Cleveland high school,

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Speaker 1: had a good group of friends, but it wasn't people

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Speaker 1: weren't That's why I was born. But I was living

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Speaker 1: in Cleveland, Ohio at the time, and uh that you know,

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Speaker 1: that wasn't what people were interested in. And then you

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Speaker 1: go to d C and there's all these young people

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Speaker 1: who kind of care and talk and fight and debate

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Speaker 1: about the same things. And that was really exciting as well.

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Speaker 1: So I started out in politics, and uh, actually, when

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Speaker 1: I finished graduate school, I I was trying to think,

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Speaker 1: should I now go journalism or politics more full time?

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Speaker 1: I was about twenty five then, and uh, I actually

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Speaker 1: applied to ABC News, applied to Nightline and got a

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Speaker 1: very kind but very terse, one line rejection letter from

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Speaker 1: Rick Kaplan. At nine Line, I got hired by my

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Speaker 1: member of Congress, had Finn to be he was, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he had been at ABC for a long time and

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Speaker 1: it was his copple then and I got my jobs

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Speaker 1: in politics, and one thing led to another there and

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Speaker 1: I loved it and was happy to do it. Uh

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Speaker 1: And it really was passionate about it. When I left

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Speaker 1: the White House in nine first, early I was I

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Speaker 1: guess I was what thirty five, thirty six? Then I

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Speaker 1: felt much older and I know why, oh yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, White House hears are dog years multiplied. But

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Speaker 1: I also knew I had a better sense of what

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to be than what I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be after I left the White House, I knew I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to be someone who just hung around Washington

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Speaker 1: trading off of what you'd done forever. And I knew

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Speaker 1: that in order to feel my age again, I had

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Speaker 1: to start a different career. And whose idea was it

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Speaker 1: to ABC? I think part of the reason, probably the

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Speaker 1: biggest reason I went to ABC, is when I met

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Speaker 1: with Ruinardge. I got what they called the full Ruin,

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Speaker 1: which is, you know, you brought you in and it

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Speaker 1: was will be the last time I saw him pretty much,

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Speaker 1: but you know, sold me on ABC. And one of

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Speaker 1: the pitches he made is that we have, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: a pretty good history of taking people who had who

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Speaker 1: had been in politics and actually training them to do journalism.

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Speaker 1: Diane Sawyer although she had come later, but also coach Nixon. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and it was it was a good pitch. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know when I started that I would, you know, end

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Speaker 1: up going full time, but I knew I had the opportunity.

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Speaker 1: And so when you started you started ABC win January

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Speaker 1: commentator and Charlie Gibson on that first day was the

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Speaker 1: inauguration coverage gave me kind of a hard time do

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Speaker 1: you know why? Yeah, I yeah, absolutely got it from

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Speaker 1: all of them. I got it from I got it

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Speaker 1: from Charlie a little bit. I got it from Ted Copple,

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Speaker 1: who once came of office and just looked me in

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Speaker 1: now and asked me why I'm here and whether I

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Speaker 1: really felt I could, you know, sort of do the job.

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Speaker 1: Be fair and and be objective. They were fair. Oh

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Speaker 1: definitely got hazed a little bit from by Peter, but

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Speaker 1: he was but you know, I they gave also gave

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Speaker 1: me the chance to prove myself. And and did you

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Speaker 1: worry that you could be fair? I didn't worry about it.

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Speaker 1: But I realized that it was the only way if

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Speaker 1: I was committed to doing this full time, it was

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Speaker 1: the only way to do it. And I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: what actually worked for me, And this is probably different

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Speaker 1: from people who grow up and begin their career as journalists,

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Speaker 1: is I couldn't pretend that I didn't have personal opinions.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't pretend I wasn't a democratic paid it right

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Speaker 1: and and one I accepted that as opposed to trying

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Speaker 1: to be the journalists. And some journalists don't vote, and

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Speaker 1: you know, are so rigorous about We're not going to

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Speaker 1: allow any part of our life to show that kind

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Speaker 1: of uh choosing of one side or another. I sort

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Speaker 1: of accepted that and then said, but my job is

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Speaker 1: to analyze things and report on them and tell people,

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Speaker 1: with the benefit of my experience, help them put this

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Speaker 1: all into perspective and then they can go make up

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Speaker 1: their own minds. And by by not pretending that I

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Speaker 1: was someone else, it freed me up inside. But I

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Speaker 1: want to get to later on the nature of what

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Speaker 1: it is to analyze things from a journalistic standpoint. But

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Speaker 1: I want to stay with this track of this. So

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Speaker 1: you write the book, and I'm willing to bet you

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Speaker 1: keep the gloves on. You write the book, and you're

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Speaker 1: very kind of cautious what you write. But nonetheless, people

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Speaker 1: viewed when you wrote the book that you kind of

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Speaker 1: you you had some um rigorously honest opinions of the

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Speaker 1: Clintons in your time there. And did you feel when

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Speaker 1: the book came out, because I know that I would

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Speaker 1: feel this way that in one sense, you've done enough

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Speaker 1: of that in the book already, so now that when

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Speaker 1: you're on TV, did it make you kind of cautious

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Speaker 1: and you kind of pulled your punches on the air.

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Speaker 1: But no, I mean, it's now what was happening then

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Speaker 1: is and this was actually, you know, part of the journey. UM.

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Speaker 1: I decided to write the book when I first left

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Speaker 1: the White House, and it was supposed to be a

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Speaker 1: relatively lighthearted but honest kind of adventure story of this,

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Speaker 1: you know, your life, my life, and you know, and

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Speaker 1: that had a you know, quite a happy ending. And

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Speaker 1: actually and I worked on the book throughout and it

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Speaker 1: was in um whenever it was whatever January that all

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Speaker 1: the Monica lewhisky stuff broke, and I was called on

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Speaker 1: the day of broke. I remember again, I think I

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Speaker 1: know I was in Alabama. I was going to try

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Speaker 1: to I was gonna say the city, and I'm not

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Speaker 1: positive it was Birmingham or Montgomery, but I in Alabama

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Speaker 1: that morning. I had spoken at a college, and when

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Speaker 1: all this stuff broken, I had to go on Good

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Speaker 1: Morning America that morning and talk about it. And one

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Speaker 1: of the promises I had made myself when I started

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Speaker 1: to be a commentator was not that I would disavow

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Speaker 1: by any means I don't think it was honest my

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Speaker 1: my previous views, but that what I owed the audience

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Speaker 1: was to sort of tell them the same kinds of

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Speaker 1: things I would say if this were a meeting inside

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Speaker 1: the White House, like you know, what does this mean?

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Speaker 1: Which I felt was a way to be true to

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Speaker 1: my beliefs, but also to give an added perspective. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I I saw that stuff come out that

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Speaker 1: that morning and I had actually I said what I thought,

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Speaker 1: which was true. I said, if these revelations, if these charges,

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Speaker 1: if these accusations are true, if I think I said,

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Speaker 1: if a couple of times, uh, they're serious and they

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Speaker 1: could lead to impeachment. Did you know they were true?

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Speaker 1: I didn't know. It was you know, it was compartmentalized,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, whatever he did, he was good

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Speaker 1: at it. But the thing was that was a sort

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Speaker 1: of a my first taste of while even when I

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Speaker 1: felt I was just sort of laying it out as

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Speaker 1: I saw it, that was seen as you know, hugely controversial.

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Speaker 1: You know, people said I was portraying and all that

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff. I didn't believe, so, but it was

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Speaker 1: I got that sense of whoa this is. It's not

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Speaker 1: always going to be no matter what you're saying. It's

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Speaker 1: damned if you do damned if you don't in that content,

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Speaker 1: because when I read the book, and I remember it

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Speaker 1: came out, people said there was that tone of betrayal,

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Speaker 1: and that's a you know, I understand people who have

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Speaker 1: that position on principle that you know, if you work

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Speaker 1: for a White House, you shouldn't write about it, or

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Speaker 1: you know, you should wait twenty years or something. I understand.

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Speaker 1: I don't agree with that position, but I I understand it.

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Speaker 1: Once that happened, I had written about a hundred fifty

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Speaker 1: pages by that point, and I had to throw him out.

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Speaker 1: Not because the incidents had changed, but you know, the

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Speaker 1: filter definitely changes. I mean they once when something like

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Speaker 1: that happens, you have to go back and look look

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Speaker 1: back at everything through the filter of what you now know,

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Speaker 1: even though you still try to be honest at the moment.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly it. And I mean, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: ask you to revisit that and talk about your experience then,

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Speaker 1: but what effect did that have on you long term

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Speaker 1: in your your view of politics, Because for me, that

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Speaker 1: was the beginning, not Watergate. You know, it's it's so

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Speaker 1: interesting Clinton impeachment that began to me to slowly turn

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Speaker 1: my view of American scene For me, it felt more

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Speaker 1: like a progression. You know what. One of the one

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Speaker 1: of my my takeaways from that whole time is, you know,

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Speaker 1: I remember in those men I worked for Clinton for

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Speaker 1: about six years. Liberals, real liberals, always distrusted him, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially after the ninety four election and the

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Speaker 1: child family and there, and welfare reform and all those things.

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Speaker 1: But it was somehow was the act of impeachment that

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Speaker 1: actually galvanized and united all Democrats around him because it

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Speaker 1: was seen as overstepping and and I think that the assassination, yeah,

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Speaker 1: political assassination, and it I think that was one time

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Speaker 1: when the majority of the country, or enough of majority

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Speaker 1: of the country, even those who deplored what what President

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Speaker 1: Clinton did, felt that, you know, this is going too far.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to imagine this now, but I mean that

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Speaker 1: in the course of impeachment, as the president is being impeached,

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Speaker 1: his party picks up seats in the House. That's how

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Speaker 1: that's how much the country jacks. But I don't see

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Speaker 1: that as the moment. I see that as a building.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is this kind of thing had been

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Speaker 1: building up for for some time, and I saw, well,

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Speaker 1: the public of our opportunity, the intense partisanship, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the the the idea of hesitate to use your your word, assassination,

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Speaker 1: but where everyone was looking for a scalp all the time,

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Speaker 1: the Nixon that's possible, but you know when you look

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Speaker 1: back and then Republicans will say, we'll wait a second, no,

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Speaker 1: look what happened to Bork And that was really the

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Speaker 1: original sin going through his records, going through his movie

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Speaker 1: records was where it all Thomas began. Thomas then comes up,

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Speaker 1: and it's just one thing builds after. Were you glad

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Speaker 1: you weren't there when all that was coming down? I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of a question that answers like you wonder

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Speaker 1: what it must have been like to I mean, my

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Speaker 1: admiration for him is that he survived. I really don't

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Speaker 1: give a damn what people do in their personal lives.

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Speaker 1: What's the preferred way for the president to take the

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Speaker 1: edge off? You wanted to drink, you wanted to take

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Speaker 1: prescriptive medication. If the way he takes the edge off

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Speaker 1: as he likes women, then I'm like, okay, I'll take

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Speaker 1: that of the three, choose one of the three. And

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Speaker 1: I think I'm not asking I'm not asking you to chime.

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Speaker 1: All this stuff was always people's behavior and their and

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Speaker 1: their personal lives that never really really bothered me. But

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Speaker 1: I also think that when I see him, I I

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Speaker 1: just have this tremendous He's like Chuck Yeager to me,

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Speaker 1: how you crash that jet fighter and you get out

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Speaker 1: and you're alive? He survived and and just never so

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Speaker 1: so goddamn that is the thing. And you know, he

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Speaker 1: used to tell this story about getting pushed down as

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Speaker 1: and in so many ways that that resilience is is

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Speaker 1: a big story of his life and his presidency. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, and that's a great you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's an invaluable political strength you wanted in your presidence

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Speaker 1: because every presdent is going to make a mistake. So obviously,

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Speaker 1: when you were on one side of the aisle, so

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Speaker 1: to speak, and though you came over there, do you

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Speaker 1: find yourself doing things that you hated when other reporters did?

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Speaker 1: You know, I think I am both helped and hurt

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Speaker 1: by having spent the you know, the first twenty years

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Speaker 1: of my career in politics. Um, I think it helps

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Speaker 1: me in that. You know, I have been inside those

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Speaker 1: rooms where the decisions are made, and I do tend

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Speaker 1: to believe that most politicians public servants most of the

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Speaker 1: time are well motivated trying to, you know, do the

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Speaker 1: best they can according to their vision and what right

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Speaker 1: and wrong is. Um. And you know, there are times

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Speaker 1: when so I don't have that that deep ingrained skepticism

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Speaker 1: gene that, you know, if you're gonna be a great

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter, you kind of need. I think that kind

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Speaker 1: of you know, sometimes it handicaps me in that way.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, having that empathy and understanding, I

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Speaker 1: think sometimes gives me a better sense of how things

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Speaker 1: are are gonna play out. UM And no, I'm I

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Speaker 1: have tried to be you know even you know, I

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Speaker 1: do the Sunday Show and I'll ask tough, direct questions

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Speaker 1: and follow up. How many times have you interviewed Obama? Oh? Gosh, several,

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Speaker 1: you know a lot. I mean, I I don't know

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Speaker 1: the exact number. Your experience working with in the White House,

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Speaker 1: What what kind of color does that cast? What kind

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Speaker 1: of a shade does that cast on your view with

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Speaker 1: him and what he's done. I'm gonna ask you to.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna kind of ask you to evaluate him, but

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Speaker 1: I'm asking you more to. But what's been like covering him?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's I think he's been, you know, a

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Speaker 1: president of pretty momentous times. Um. I've had some very

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Speaker 1: contentious interviews with him. But I come at it from

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Speaker 1: the perspective of, you know, again, he's he's gonna beat

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Speaker 1: you if you try to take a cheap shot, uh,

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Speaker 1: in interview, and I think that basically you haven't done that.

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Speaker 1: You've seen other people do that. Yeah, and you know easily.

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Speaker 1: But we ended up getting into pretty long contentious argument. Um.

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Speaker 1: It was during the health care fight we got into

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Speaker 1: this argument. I was questioning about the idea that the

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Speaker 1: mandate was attacks he said, well, you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: forcing people, you know, the money to spend their money. Um.

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Speaker 1: And he just was not having it. And we went

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Speaker 1: at it for like you know, in TV as an eternity,

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Speaker 1: it's like twelve minutes and uh, I probably just exaggerated,

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Speaker 1: may have been six, but went back and forth and

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Speaker 1: and he was so insistent on it, and I was

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Speaker 1: insistent on my side. And I even had a dictionary

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Speaker 1: definition of tacks and the minute the camera went off,

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Speaker 1: he said, you lost when you pulled out the definition.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I get the last word on this story.

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Speaker 1: This is you know, the story that makes me look good.

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Speaker 1: Of course, when they went to the Supreme Court, the

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Speaker 1: way they won the argument was by arguing that the

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Speaker 1: mandate was attacks and that's how they got John Roberts

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Speaker 1: wrote and said, when you said, you're welcome, but no,

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Speaker 1: I you know, I think he you know, he came

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Speaker 1: in and time of incredible crisis, the worst economic crisis

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Speaker 1: of our adult lifetime. I don't think I would have

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Speaker 1: made every choice that he made through that. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: if I'm honest with myself, I probably would have been

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Speaker 1: on the side in the White House arguing, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe you shouldn't do healthcare now. But you know he

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Speaker 1: puts and and and and and and he got it through.

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Speaker 1: Um uh. But I you know, I I'm a little

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Speaker 1: wistful about him leaving when he's done, because I don't

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Speaker 1: think he's been given enough credit. He just hasn't. I

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Speaker 1: think he said, when you presidents are in their time,

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Speaker 1: that's dude. You're very right. You're you're far wiser than

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Speaker 1: I am about that. I just feel like that. And

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Speaker 1: it's not about race. I just feel like I feel

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Speaker 1: that people's fatigued. They're fatigued. Americans are fatigued by war.

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Speaker 1: They're fatigued by UH and and and you know, and

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Speaker 1: this is also a progression. And the the he came

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Speaker 1: in making a promise that could not be kept. This

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Speaker 1: idea that you can bring together the country in this

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Speaker 1: environment was is fanciful. Um. But it's that's that progression

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Speaker 1: of seeing the hardening of partisan lines over the last generation,

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Speaker 1: I think makes it. You know, you sort of look

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Speaker 1: at when's the last second term president who you know?

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Speaker 1: Clinton got it, I guess towards the very end. But

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Speaker 1: he was also impeached that you know, it doesn't have

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Speaker 1: the whole country by the time he's finished disappearing victory

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Speaker 1: from you know, you know, sick and tired. So with you,

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Speaker 1: with you, with your from your standpoint? Now, are you

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Speaker 1: excited about or not excited about her? Indifferent to another

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Speaker 1: Bush Clinton? I'm fascinated by the whole idea and number

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Speaker 1: one and number two, I'm I what I'm most interested

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Speaker 1: in is seeing how the country reacts. Part of me

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Speaker 1: just can't believe it. I mean, my whole adult life.

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Speaker 1: There's you know, kind of Bush and Clintons running front.

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Speaker 1: What is it? What is the statistics? You know, you

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Speaker 1: go back to nineteen fifty two and there I don't

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Speaker 1: think there's been a ticket on the Republican side that

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Speaker 1: didn't have a busher in Nixon. Huh, Nixon fifty two,

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Speaker 1: fifty six, he loses, it's seventy two, and then you

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Speaker 1: don't have seven seventy six Still, then he's on him,

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Speaker 1: and then he's on as the veep. Then he's the

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Speaker 1: present eight. Then this then loses to Clinton, Clinton, and

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Speaker 1: then he's back in two thousand, then he's back in

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Speaker 1: there's a couple of skips. It was that there's where

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Speaker 1: there's not an incumbent, the open ones incredible. But but

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Speaker 1: but and you know, there's a lot of evidence out

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Speaker 1: there that people complain about it. On the one hand,

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Speaker 1: there was a fascinating focus group that Peter Hart broadcast

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Speaker 1: out of Denver and and Dan Boss wrote about in

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post. And these people talk about Bushes and

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Speaker 1: Clinton's and you know, to be fair in this one,

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Speaker 1: they were slightly more negative towards Bush. But there was

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Speaker 1: this fatigue on on both sides, and you hear that anecdotally,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't seem to move people's opinions. Romney decided

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Speaker 1: to bow out. I was just I was more surprised

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Speaker 1: that he took the jump to get to come back

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Speaker 1: in because he had been burned, because he had had

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Speaker 1: his chance. Because he had he and his family had

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Speaker 1: said in such emphatic ways. I mean, what was an

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Speaker 1: Romney's eleven knows in such an emphatic ways that they

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Speaker 1: would never do it again because he was so crushed

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Speaker 1: by the lass. Although that can cut both ways, um,

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Speaker 1: but they were making that quote about that without reciting

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Speaker 1: that thing about Reaga came back won the third time

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Speaker 1: Reagan and Nixon won on his third time. I was

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Speaker 1: disappointed that Romney didn't run because as a as a

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Speaker 1: moderate Democrat myself, I'd say to myself, he's the one

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Speaker 1: I could have lived with, like when McCain ran, until

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Speaker 1: he picked Palin as a running MANE I thought, if

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Speaker 1: you want, I could live with that. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to kill myself. You know what I'm saying. There's other

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Speaker 1: Republicans that they won. I would have had to. You know,

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Speaker 1: you saw what happened once he started to run. He

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Speaker 1: had a fair amount of support, but what that that

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Speaker 1: second day he had the Wall Street Journal editorial board

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Speaker 1: whack him out. Though Stephanopolis is a born commentator, you

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Speaker 1: get the sense that he could have done anything in life.

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Speaker 1: President Clinton once called him a master of the universe.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our archive more in depth conversations

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Speaker 1: with artists, performers, and newsmakers like Brian Williams. Yes, the

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Speaker 1: Brian Williams who I talked with back in two thousand.

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Speaker 1: Dinner could not start in our household until Walter Cronkite said,

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Speaker 1: house that's the way it is. Take a listen that.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing, Dot Org. I'm at like Baldwin and

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Speaker 1: you're listening to here's the thing. My guest today is

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Speaker 1: George Stephanopoulos. He spends his weekday mornings as the anchor

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Speaker 1: of ABC's Good Morning America, talking with everyone from policymakers

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Speaker 1: to YouTube sensations. At first, he wasn't sure it was

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Speaker 1: such a good fit. They came to me and said,

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Speaker 1: would you think about it? And it was after, you know,

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Speaker 1: Charlie had announced he was going to leave and Diane

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Speaker 1: was going to take his job, and um, I just

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Speaker 1: said no, and why I liked what I was doing.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think I could do the other job that

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Speaker 1: I just didn't think it matched my Absolutely no, and

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Speaker 1: I was just going to get to the second, tell

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. You're far more charming than you think.

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Speaker 1: She was actually saying no, you're not going to do it,

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Speaker 1: because also we had to. Our girls were marks are

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Speaker 1: still pretty young, but they were much younger than we

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Speaker 1: had a really nice, sort of great life and d

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Speaker 1: C rhythm and didn't want to upend it. What changed?

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Speaker 1: You know, you've probably seen this at various times in

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Speaker 1: your career. I don't know if it works exactly the

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Speaker 1: same way. It probably does. There's great power and saying no.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to mean it when you say it,

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Speaker 1: and I did mean it, but they just kept saying, well,

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Speaker 1: you just think about it, and you know, I'll be honest.

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Speaker 1: You know, Uh, there there would have been a cost

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Speaker 1: to saying no meant I could do what I was

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Speaker 1: doing for a long, long, long long time young but

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Speaker 1: it probably meant that that's all I would do. Because

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Speaker 1: you're saying they're telling you we need you to do

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Speaker 1: this for the company and steppingson and you're saying, no,

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Speaker 1: it takes on a life of its own. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: your that's your choice, you know, So that was part

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Speaker 1: of it. H What did you think that that job

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Speaker 1: required that you didn't have? Because I'll tell you something interesting.

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Speaker 1: This is a true story, but I'll never forget. I

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Speaker 1: was in Tokyo and I was promoting this film and

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Speaker 1: I get a phone call. And I don't want to

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Speaker 1: go into the particulars of who's on the other end

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Speaker 1: of the phone that have it all played out, but

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Speaker 1: they basically said to me, you know, the Good Morning

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Speaker 1: America was never more successful than when an actor hosted

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Speaker 1: the show, which was David Hartman, and they said, would

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00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: you consider becoming the host of Good Morning America? One

428
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: of them I was thirty six years old. I wondered also,

429
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: as we both know, if they were doing to pressure

430
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: someone to sign their contract, who was holding out on

431
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: a contract or something, because you never know whether people

432
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: are using it for some other purpose. And I thought

433
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: about that. I mean, I do this podcast, I've i've

434
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: i've I've done well, I've done things outside of this

435
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,719
Speaker 1: because I always say it's it's it's a nice way

436
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: to kill an hour and talk I'm interested in their career,

437
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 1: but like, what did you think? Well, it was that

438
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: I had never as a as a journalist, never covered

439
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: or done things that I wasn't personally interested in. I'd

440
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: always you know, basically done politics and public policy and

441
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: public fairs, which is you know that Barger game. Yeah,

442
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: and I and I that's the way I like to

443
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: start my day. I like to start my day by

444
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: reading two hours of everything going on in the world

445
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 1: and then you know, using it. And I knew that

446
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, by definition, the morning shows have some of that,

447
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: but it's also a lot of things that you know,

448
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: you wouldn't expect me to talk about, you know, home

449
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: decorating or I like to cook, but it's not something

450
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: I want to do on TV every morning. And you

451
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: have to find a way to talk about home decorating

452
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: in the Good Morning America style. What I found and

453
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: to develop a skill. I was lucky in that, um,

454
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: I learn how to do what I do differently, and

455
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: I was very lucky and that they changed the show

456
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: around as I was doing this as well and sort

457
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: of broadened out the team, which made it possible for

458
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: me to basically be nothing but myself on the air um,

459
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: and that is actually could be the straight man. The skill,

460
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: the skill is to see who you are, be who

461
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: you are. The world is going to come to you

462
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: every morning. There's gonna be all kinds of different things happening. Handsome, ernest,

463
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: reacts as you normally would do whatever happens, and that's

464
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, that's actually kind of fun. I guess the

465
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: perfect borning show host should be a combination of you

466
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 1: and your wife, somebody with your knowledge about public affairs

467
00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 1: as someone with her time. Yes, she's so funny. What

468
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: does she think about you doing the job. She didn't

469
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: want me to do it first. She glad you did.

470
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we loved Washington, and I've been going back

471
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: and forth Washington in New York my whole career. But

472
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: we really love New York. We love living here. Kids

473
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 1: love it, and the kids love it and we have

474
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: a great you know, not going with a great life here.

475
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 1: What's the tough part about doing that job? Because famous

476
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: talk show host? So I've been doing their shows and

477
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: they've been They've confided in me, like I'll come on,

478
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: and I wanna you know, I want to I'm eager

479
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: to please, So I want to queen a play bowl

480
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: with them and come up with some stuff with some

481
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: bits and whatever. We work the segments and they'll lean

482
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: over and say, thank God, here here, you know, you're

483
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: so funny. And then they'll say to me, what torture

484
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: it is pretending people are special? Who aren't that specially

485
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,719
Speaker 1: when they come on. You know, that part doesn't bother me.

486
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: What bothers me is when people come on and they

487
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: expect you to do their job. They're in entertainment here,

488
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: they're in entertainment, and you know they got a job

489
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: to do and can come do it. I really respect

490
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: professionals who, you know, know that talent is one thing,

491
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: but work is important. Had a weird thing for me.

492
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not that big of a deal, but

493
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: it's slightly weird. How in the arc of my lifetime

494
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: the Evening News a guy or a woman for that matter,

495
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 1: sitting behind the desk. I mean, Maureen Dowd made it,

496
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: had a nice column about this, sitting behind the desk

497
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: and telling you what happened today, which is a dated concept.

498
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: We're all walking out with a device in our hand

499
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: that tells us everything every ten seconds and a refresh button,

500
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: and that is changing and morphing and diminishing. But the

501
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: morning shows have not lost their important They become more well,

502
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: you know. The good thing is that well, you know,

503
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: it's one of the last places you were talking about.

504
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: You watch television. We all tune in now for big events.

505
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: You know, most of us watch the super Bowl, most

506
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: of us watch, you know, the presidential debates, not so

507
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: much the States of the Union, any kind of big

508
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: live event the country, even the award shows like the

509
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: Academy Awards, people would tune in on. The morning is

510
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: the last place where people, actually, I think, on television

511
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: get up to find out what happened while they were sleeping.

512
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: My device has been off, and you know during the day,

513
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: they're catching up all day long. And I gotta say

514
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: that's one of the and it was one of There

515
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: are two things have surprised me about how much I've

516
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: ended up, you know, fitting into this job and also

517
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: liking it. I really really love the idea that people

518
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: are getting up and getting their first news from you.

519
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah. And and secondly, and this is

520
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: the thing I had to come to appreciate something I've

521
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: heard in the last five years which I had never

522
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: before heard, uh, you know, just from people on the

523
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: street when they come up and talk to you. And

524
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: most people are nice. Um is you know, thank you

525
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: for starting my day and putting us in a good

526
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: mood no matter what happens. You know, and the news

527
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: isn't always good, but you guys just seem to you know,

528
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: be able to have fun and do it in a

529
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: in a that makes us feel. And I was a kid, James.

530
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: I remember Barbara Walters. She got mad at me when

531
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: I reminded her that when I was a kid watching her,

532
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: But it was a big deal. Who you who you

533
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: set the day up with? Now? Of course, um, I

534
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: might have sat down with you before we started here,

535
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: and I might have told you a story about how

536
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: my car nearly going there. I had my car nearly

537
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: hit other cars and we had to avoid all kinds

538
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: of potholes and it was a very dangerous thing. And

539
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: I mean I risked my life getting up here to

540
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: sit down with you and talk to you today. And

541
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, um, or joking aside, what do you think

542
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: happen there with Brian boy? I don't know what people

543
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: in your I mean, you always newsman and and all

544
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: of us in this business. Host, Good Morning America now,

545
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: but you were a newsman, and everybody's been watching this

546
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: and trying to figure out you know, you know, it's

547
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: when something happens in your business. You know, we're all

548
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: following every twist of this and trying to put it

549
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: all together. You know, I'm not friends with Brian, but

550
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: I see him around a lot. I like it got funny.

551
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: He's a good guy, always respected his work. Um. And

552
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: then you see this start to happen, and a couple

553
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: of things have stunned me. Um. One, when you see

554
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: the you know, the various clips, you're kind of you're

555
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: surprised at the volume a little bit um and the

556
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: the vividness, uh performance. Yeah. And then but also I

557
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: gotta say I'm surprised. I didn't quite understand how it

558
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: got into the broadcast because you know, we all are

559
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: surrounded by big teams, and that was a little bit surprising. Online,

560
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: I mean again, I don't believe I don't really rely

561
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 1: too much on what I read on some of these venues.

562
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: But what you're seeing online is this idea, which I

563
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: find just very compelling, is he just was in this

564
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: perch where there was no one to say no to him.

565
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: He was his own boss. He had no censor and

566
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: danger in all life though, when you when you when

567
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: you don't have someone who can, whether your wife or

568
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: your best friend, or your brother or sister. God knows,

569
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: I've got a wife that lets the air out of

570
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: me from town to town. Trust definitely that I definitely do.

571
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: And you do. I mean, listen, I in my job,

572
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: I sometimes chafe it some of the restrictions or you know,

573
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, the various checks and and and balances, but

574
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: you know it's there for a reason. But I have

575
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: a theory about him. What is it? And I don't

576
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm gonna expect you to know to

577
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: see it this way, But I have a theory about him,

578
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: which is And I would sit back and in a

579
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: somewhat casual mode, and I would watch the whole American

580
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: sniper thing play out, and you'd say to yourself, Well,

581
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: what people want is they want us to have a sustained, honest,

582
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: real palpable celebration of our fighting men and women who

583
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: were over there. Now for many many you just war

584
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: over there, whatever you want to call it, whatever the

585
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: action was, they've been over there for a long long time, now,

586
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: longer than any other battle we've ever had, absolutely, and

587
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: it's a small, tiny person of the population that's been

588
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: there for longer than ever before. When I was a kid,

589
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: Emma Floria was my babysitter, and Emma Florio's family lived

590
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: down the block from me, and the seminal moment was

591
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: that her brother, Roland Florio, who worked in a medevac helicopter,

592
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: who was due to come home in two weeks, get

593
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: shot down and he was killed. So the reverberations of

594
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: death in Vietnam lived in my neighborhoodraft and in my

595
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: height exactly, and Vietnam and war and the draft lived

596
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: in our lives. And now that's all gone. None of

597
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: us have a dog in that fight, so to speak.

598
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: That we're blood kin or our friends. That two year

599
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: difference in our age is actually kind of significant. My

600
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: first memory of all that, I mean, I was just

601
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: a little too young for all that Vietnam stuff is

602
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: actually I was the first class. I believe they go

603
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: back and register for the draft again, but I came

604
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: of age in that. I guess it was kind of

605
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: a blessed era where we just didn't we didn't fight. Yeah. Yeah,

606
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: See my theory about Brian was it because Brian's audience

607
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: is an audience that's a middle class conservative moms and

608
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: pops that aren't working around with their devices in their

609
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: hands all the time. Maybe the device is something would

610
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: make a phone call with. We're not checking what CNN

611
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 1: says or Ariana Huffington says, and we all are creatures

612
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: have have it. And they said then they go, they're like, no,

613
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: my news. Brian tells me what the news is at

614
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: six o'clock and millions of people watch Brian. Brian's got

615
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: a good audience. And Brian, I think fell even unconsciously

616
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: victim to something which was wrapping himself in the flag

617
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: and in the glory of the military to please his audience.

618
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: He kind of got a little drunk on and this

619
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: is I'm there's a big swing I'm taking here. But

620
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: I see his language and I see the way he

621
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: plays it out, and I try to understand people as

622
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: an actor, like what they're going through. And I thought

623
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: he's trying to communicate to people here, He's trying to

624
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: tell them something, and I think his audiences he's trying

625
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 1: to connect. But because but it wasn't just the military stuff,

626
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: but trying to connect to people through stories. And I

627
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 1: think his crown up is to be a very pro military,

628
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 1: conservative crowd. I think that's six o'clock News on NBC.

629
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: It's it's an older, more conservative crowd. You having fun

630
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: on that job? Is it fun most of the time?

631
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: Most of the time? Yeah? And then you know, for me,

632
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: I get I I get to you know, I'm lucky

633
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: now and I've reached a point in my career, you know, hoping.

634
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: You know, there's one of the cautionary tales of the

635
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: whole Brian Williams episode is I don't think we all

636
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: make mistakes. I don't think I don't think what I

637
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: would do what he did, but in that case, but

638
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: we all make mistakes, and you realize it can go

639
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: like that. I'm familiar with that. Yeah. But what I

640
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Speaker 1: what I love about is I get to do a

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Speaker 1: lot of different things every day. All of life is

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Speaker 1: kind of opened up to it. And on top of it,

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Speaker 1: the job I've structured now as I still every other Sunday,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm doing this week and whenever big news happens,

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Speaker 1: and I take this responsibility seriously. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: really um and fulfilled by when when big things happen,

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Speaker 1: having the chance to help explain it to people. Even

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Speaker 1: though most people get, you know, more and more getting

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Speaker 1: the news in other ways, they still are going to

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00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: turn to you when when big things happen, and you know,

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Speaker 1: to have the chance to be a part of that

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Speaker 1: is you know, it's a it's a great privilege. You

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Speaker 1: can hear George Stephanopoulos's commentary every other Sunday on ABC's

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Speaker 1: This Week with George Stephanopoulos. George's daughters here his analysis

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Speaker 1: every night when he joins them around the dinner table.

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Speaker 1: He says, that's the big benefit of his very very

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Speaker 1: early day. This is Alec Baldwin. You're listening to here's

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Speaker 1: the thing and be thing to get any cho