1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,880 Kelsey Snelling: This episode contains descriptions of disordered eating and diet behavior. 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:07,320 Kelsey Snelling: This language could be sensitive for some listeners, so please 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:12,840 Kelsey Snelling: take care. In the mid twenty tens, Camp Shane was 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:14,960 Kelsey Snelling: a shit show. Literally. 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,960 Nelson: I'm walking up the short hill to get to Boys 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:24,040 Nelson: Camp and I see a waterfall pouring out the back 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:29,600 Nelson: of my cabin and I'm like, oh, a pipe must 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:36,720 Nelson: have busted in the bathroom. My room, My cabin blooded 9 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:43,720 Nelson: with about three feet of human waste. 10 00:00:43,800 --> 00:01:57,280 Kelsey Snelling: Nelson Jancaterino, the camper-turned-counselor we talked to earlier in the show, spent his final year at Shane as a sort of pseudo-maintenance man. He was well acquainted with some of the issues going on at camp. Nelson had been at camp for years, but in the mid 2010s, things seemed to be getting worse. Many buildings needed renovating, equipment was subpar, and cabins were overflowing with water and other – (cough cough) – less desirable substances.How the hell did we get here? This is Camp Shame. I’m your host Kelsey Snelling.This episode, things go down the drain – or should I say, come back up – fast. As you know, Camp Shane was less than perfect. Kids were not eating enough food.Counselors were often untrained and staff could be fired for what seemed like no reason. But even though there had been rocky years in the camp’s past, 2014 was one for the books. 11 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,000 Harrison: When I say that summer twenty fourteen was the worst 12 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,000 Harrison: summer of my life, it's the worst summer by far. 13 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:35,639 Kelsey Snelling: That’s Harrison Davies. He was a Marketing Associate and part of the office staff at Camp Shane in 2014. Because he was a salaried staff member and not a counselor, he was expected to work year round. Harrison is a bubbly guy with a lot of enthusiasm and, at the time, he was excited to land his first full time position post-college. He started the summer hopeful about the opportunity to help out at Shane, but it didn’t take long for him to realize he was walking into more than he had bargained for. 14 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,760 Harrison: It was just a toxic work environment. I've never had 15 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,280 Harrison: a work environment that would come nearly as terribly close 16 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,680 Harrison: on its worst day than any given day in that 17 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:46,960 Harrison: office down the hill. 18 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 3: What made it so bad? (Sigh) Where to begin? First, Harrison 19 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 3: worked long hours. 20 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,880 Harrison: You were looking at no less than a ten to 21 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,360 Harrison: eleven hour work day and sometimes six days a week 22 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:02,160 Harrison: at least. 23 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,080 Kelsey Snelling: As a marketing associate, Harrison worked in the office, which 24 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,320 Kelsey Snelling: was attached to the dining hall at the bottom of 25 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:13,440 Kelsey Snelling: the hill. The conditions were not ideal. For one thing, 26 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,680 Kelsey Snelling: there wasn't much to eat. Harrison told me that David 27 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,400 Kelsey Snelling: policed how much food the office team got for lunch 28 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,760 Kelsey Snelling: and didn't allow them to store much, if anything, in 29 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:23,880 Kelsey Snelling: the fridge. 30 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,320 Harrison: In the staff office and the tiny little fridge that 31 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,160 Harrison: we had in the storage cabinet. The only thing I 32 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,720 Harrison: think that we were potentially allowed to have in there 33 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:38,200 Harrison: was maybe like Diet Coke or diet Sprite, and maybe coffee, 34 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,200 Harrison: all of which we had to purchase ourselves. 35 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,760 Kelsey Snelling: Many counselors we spoke with saw weight loss as a 36 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,920 Kelsey Snelling: benefit to working at camp, but not Harrison. He thought 37 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,280 Kelsey Snelling: this was supposed to be a camp where the kids 38 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:52,360 Kelsey Snelling: lost weight. 39 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,040 Harrison: In a nutshell, you were given the same amount of 40 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,600 Harrison: food as the overweight campers were who were in their teens. 41 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:00,080 Harrison: That's what you were given. 42 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,320 Kelsey Snelling: In fact, in the fine print of staff contracts, it 43 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,760 Kelsey Snelling: stated that if employees exceeded the quote, Camp Shane designated 44 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,600 Kelsey Snelling: guidelines for desired weight, they had to participate in the 45 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,040 Kelsey Snelling: same program as the campers. In reality, this extended to 46 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:21,520 Kelsey Snelling: all staff because remember everyone was fed the same thing. Now, 47 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,120 Kelsey Snelling: some counselors and staff members were permitted to get seconds 48 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,960 Kelsey Snelling: at meal time if leftovers happened to be available, But 49 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,120 Kelsey Snelling: since Harrison was bogged down in the office, he rarely 50 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,719 Kelsey Snelling: got to meals before extra helpings ran out, and once 51 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,960 Kelsey Snelling: when he did successfully get more food, David reprimanded him. 52 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,600 Harrison: I do remember David sitting me down one day saying, listen, Harrison, 53 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,599 Harrison: you're on salary here that that's awesome. Just so you know, 54 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,840 Harrison: we do see you eating a little more than the campers, 55 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,400 Harrison: and you know we have to pay for that. He 56 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,360 Harrison: would get very upset if we made alternative lunch arrangements, 57 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,640 Harrison: But then again he was also rationing how much we 58 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,359 Harrison: could he the office. Actually we attempted to order out 59 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,720 Harrison: and David blocked our order, and he actually took our 60 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:08,240 Harrison: order and threw it in the trash. 61 00:05:09,279 --> 00:06:27,400 Kelsey Snelling: So of course the food situation sucked, plus the job itself wasn’t really what Harrison had signed up to do. He had originally been hired by David and Zipporah to do marketing work for something called the Shane Diet Resorts. We haven’t talked about the Shane Diet Resorts yet, because they were kind of a side project in the world of Camp Shane and only ran for a handful of years. The Diet Resorts fell under the Camp Shane umbrella, but were designed for adults. One was in Texas, and one just a few miles from Ferndale in NY, both run out of upscale-ish hotels. The program supposedly offered a customized daily schedule, a variety of day trips, healthy meal options, classes, and activities. So this is what Harrison was told he would be working on. But he quickly got roped into doing marketing and additional administrative office work for the flagship Camp Shane as well. In fact, he was moved to the Camp Shane Ferndale location where he both worked on-site in the office and lived in a cabin on the premises. Marketing at camp seemed to entail a complex set of twists and turns. David’s marketed version of camp was let’s say… a little different from reality. 62 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:36,880 Camp Shane Archive: So you laugh a lot when you’re at Camp. You really want to be here. You get up in the morning and you say it’s so awesome. 63 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:48,680 Kelsey Snelling: Mmmmmmm awesome indeed. In some of these videos, it seems difficult to prompt happy responses out of campers. 64 00:06:49,560 --> 00:07:05,960 Camp Shane Archive: (Girls)We’re happy Camp Shaners how are you? We're great, we all love each other. (off camera voice) Say we love Camp Shane. (girls)We love Camp Shane! (off camera voice) what do you love about Camp Shane? (girls) The friends-the hot sauce that always runs out...the one bottle of it. 65 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,720 Kelsey Snelling: One part of Harrison's job was editing out parts of 66 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:14,000 Kelsey Snelling: the promotional material that didn't fit Camp Shane's brand. The 67 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,360 Kelsey Snelling: videos sold a version of Camp that did not fully exist, 68 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:23,080 Kelsey Snelling: a version of Camp that had, wait for it, working 69 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:23,920 Kelsey Snelling: go karts. 70 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,520 Harrison: There was a lot of activities that they promised in 71 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,880 Harrison: their brochures and marketing that would cost money, and they 72 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,280 Harrison: just didn't do them. I think Go Karts is probably 73 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,480 Harrison: one of the best ones that never happened. 74 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,720 Kelsey Snelling: As for the people riding the Go Karts, well, that 75 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,160 Kelsey Snelling: depended on who was allowed to be in the promotional materials. 76 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,679 Kelsey Snelling: Harrison said that in one of his videos, David asked 77 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,160 Kelsey Snelling: him to cut out a key member of the staff. 78 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,440 Harrison: She didn't fit the body image of Camp Shane. 79 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,200 Kelsey Snelling: Videos, brochures and the website also so guaranteed that there 80 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,240 Kelsey Snelling: would be a beautiful lake and other water activities. But 81 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,560 Kelsey Snelling: people like Nelson, the camper turned counselor who'd been at 82 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,560 Kelsey Snelling: camp for many years, knew this wasn't quite the case. 83 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,480 Nelson: The one big thing is people were like, oh, we 84 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,880 Nelson: were told that the lake was on Camp. No, it's 85 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,880 Nelson: like a two mile drive away, Like you have to 86 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,360 Nelson: load in a van and you have to get bussed there. 87 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,800 Kelsey Snelling: Camp Shane also advertised an Olympic sized swimming pool, but 88 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,480 Kelsey Snelling: in twenty fourteen. 89 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,040 Nelson: The pool water was the consistency of lake water because 90 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:32,920 Nelson: it didn't have chlorine or any chemicals in it. It 91 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:33,559 Nelson: was disgusting. 92 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,400 Kelsey Snelling: And then there were the online reviews, which should have 93 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,880 Kelsey Snelling: been more reliable, but Nelson remembers that David would have 94 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,800 Kelsey Snelling: him write fake Yelp reviews about how amazing the camp was, 95 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,640 Kelsey Snelling: from different usernames and IP addresses, so that it looked 96 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,760 Kelsey Snelling: like they were done by real customers. We talked to 97 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,360 Kelsey Snelling: two staffers who say they were asked to do the 98 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:55,000 Kelsey Snelling: same thing. 99 00:08:55,520 --> 00:09:12,480 Nelson: He was obsessed with online reviews. So he would say, you know, write one at camp and then go down to McDonald's for another IP address and write another one.I remember telling him about Facebook reviews and his face dropped. He was like, you can review us on Facebook?! 100 00:09:13,320 --> 00:10:47,280 Kelsey Snelling: Clearly, Camp Shane’s marketing could be misleading. One particular example of this involved the medical support parents were told their children would be receiving while enrolled. When you logged onto Camp Shane’s website, it claimed to be a medically supervised camp. On the homepage, there were three professionals prominently featured: a Medical Advisor, a Registered Dietician, and a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist. The professionals within these roles sometimes changed year to year, but were always credentialed. Campers at Shane were going through intense changes and challenges – both mentally and physically – so having people like this involved in the programming was crucial. The problem? These doctors and experts often weren’t at Camp Shane. Now to clarify, the website was careful not to use the language “on-site” or “on-location,” but parents and campers that I’ve spoken with had the impression that these professionals would be directly involved. Especially when the website says things like quote, “Our experts blend in with the non-stop fun atmosphere that is 100% camp.” Or when a Youtube video shows a Dietician cooking a meal with a camper. It’s all a bit…deceptive. Harrison says he did see some of these experts, but only on Parent Visiting Day. 101 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:53,880 Harrison: These experts, doctors and psychologists were giving their stamp of approval, 102 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,320 Harrison: would come that one day to you know, talk to 103 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,079 Harrison: the parents about all the important stuff, using their suppose 104 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,840 Harrison: medical expertise, you know, all the letters after their name, 105 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,000 Harrison: to give a verbal, you know, reassurance to the parents 106 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,000 Harrison: that everything was great. 107 00:11:09,600 --> 00:13:37,000 Kelsey Snelling: So in the absence of an on-site Medical Advisor, Registered Dietician, and Cognitive Behavioral Therapist, who was actually on the ground, working day in- and -day out with these campers? Let’s start with the nutritionists. This role was filled by young college students with little to no official credentials or licenses. One former camper that spoke with me said she once learned to make a “healthy wrap” in nutrition class, which only consisted of raw carrots and cucumbers rolled into a tortilla with no dressing. Sounds like top-notch guidance to me! And the nurses? They were critical, because not only were kids exercising a lot, but some campers were coming in with heart conditions, diabetes, or asthma. While we do know that there were licensed nurses on site some years, there were others where the nurses weren’t around every day. And some years they weren’t on site at all..Sometimes David would claim that the nurse was “on their way,” and then no one would ever show up. Lastly, the Cognitive Behavioral Therapists. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or CBT is a style of therapy that can be effective when done right. In fact, it’s one of the most effective evidence-based treatments for all eating disorders because it’s aimed at changing negative thought patterns, giving people with eating disorders tangible ways to overcome low self esteem and trauma. CBT was pitched to parents as equipping kids with “the tools for long-term success.” Maybe the idea of making fat kids slimmer was flawed to begin with, but if that's what parents and campers wanted, this feature of camp assured them that it was happening as safely as possible. However, the people who were supervising these therapy sessions were often inadequate. Like the nutritionist role, these were often filled by college kids. In my research, I only spoke with one CBT counselor who even claimed to be qualified for the role, and even she admitted that her own colleague that summer had no qualifications to be leading CBT sessions. Not only were kids at Ferndale most likely not receiving the therapy they’d signed up for, their parents were still paying extra money for it! 108 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:58,439 Harrison: They billed the parents for this service, under the instructions of trained doctors and so on and so forth.So the parents were supposedly to be sent an invoice at the end of camp for all the sessions at the higher rate, which the parents could then turn into their own insurance companies with the hopes of getting reimbursement. 109 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:39,031 Kelsey Snelling: We don’t actually know if anyone was successfully reimbursed, but Camp Shane claims on its website that sessions were reimbursable between 40 and 70%. And if insurance companies were indeed covering costs for therapy given by unqualified providers, that might be a little something called Insurance Fraud.And not only was Harrison watching this general dysfunction play out at camp. He himself was struggling. The combination of not eating enough and being overworked took its toll. Harrison’s mom even came up from Florida to visit him at camp because she was so concerned. 110 00:14:39,031 --> 00:14:40,960 Harrison: And she goes, you know, well, Harrison, I'm a little 111 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,320 Harrison: concerned about you. Let me. You know, you look skinnier, 112 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,280 Harrison: you do seem stressed. Let me come and check on you. 113 00:14:50,040 --> 00:15:04,720 Kelsey Snelling: She took Harrison out for a day in the city to go see a Broadway show, but he couldn’t stop checking his phone because he was getting blasted with texts from David and Ziporah. Even on this one day off. 114 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,880 Harrison: I had already dropped a lot of weight, lost all 115 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,360 Harrison: my muscle mass that I had gained in my college days, 116 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:17,320 Harrison: and my hair was falling out. I remember her crying, 117 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,440 Harrison: holding me, like what are they doing to you? Like 118 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:21,640 Harrison: this isn't you. 119 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,720 Kelsey Snelling: So that was twenty fourteen. It wasn't great. But remember 120 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,400 Kelsey Snelling: when I said that twenty fourteen was one for the books, 121 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:41,800 Kelsey Snelling: Well that's because twenty fifteen hadn't happened yet, and twenty fifteen, well, 122 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:57,400 Kelsey Snelling: it lit the books on fire. Even though twenty fourteen 123 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:02,560 Kelsey Snelling: was rough, to say the least. Simon Greenwood was still 124 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,120 Kelsey Snelling: at Camp as the director. As I've mentioned before, many 125 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,080 Kelsey Snelling: people I've talked to feel that Simon was what held 126 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,920 Kelsey Snelling: Camp together. Nelson is one of them. 127 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,040 Nelson: He was an amazing director. He had so much knowledge 128 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,600 Nelson: because he started there in like nineteen ninety and then 129 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,160 Nelson: by the time he's director, he ran Camp. David ran 130 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,920 Nelson: the business part for the most part, and then Simon 131 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,320 Nelson: ran the day to day activities. 132 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,360 Kelsey Snelling: However, by twenty fourteen, tension between Simon and David had 133 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,160 Kelsey Snelling: been mounting for quite some time. The last few years, 134 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,240 Kelsey Snelling: he and David would argue almost daily. Often I'm told 135 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,000 Kelsey Snelling: it was about how much to pay counselors. Other times 136 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,200 Kelsey Snelling: they argued more specifically about how much Simon was being paid. 137 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,640 Kelsey Snelling: According to staff who were there at the time, the 138 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,800 Kelsey Snelling: tension between the two reached a boiling point, and in 139 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:58,240 Kelsey Snelling: twenty fifteen, Simon did not return to Camp Shane. It's 140 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,040 Kelsey Snelling: unclear if Simon chose to leave or if he was 141 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:07,960 Kelsey Snelling: forced out by David. David, who hadn't fully managed day 142 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:13,480 Kelsey Snelling: to day operations in decades, took over Simon's role. He 143 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,640 Kelsey Snelling: was now acting as owner and director simultaneously. 144 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,720 Nelson: That was the first summer that Simon was not there, 145 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,040 Nelson: and you could tell. 146 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,360 Kelsey Snelling: The camp was already on its last legs. And without Simon, 147 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,680 Kelsey Snelling: counselors like Nelson watched as Camp Shane limped onward. 148 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,240 Nelson: All the good stuff was Simon, all the bad shit 149 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,359 Nelson: was David, and as their relationship broke down and we 150 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,040 Nelson: saw it, it was like a loveless marriage by the 151 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,119 Nelson: time that they just went their separate ways. 152 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,760 Kelsey Snelling: The facilities had been damaged and degrading for years, and 153 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:51,120 Kelsey Snelling: in twenty fifteen things got especially messy all because one 154 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,240 Kelsey Snelling: of the international campers plugged in a converter to charge 155 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:59,480 Kelsey Snelling: their phone, and well, the shit hit the fan or 156 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:00,479 Kelsey Snelling: I guess the cabin. 157 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:34,000 Nelson: So the shit from eleven through seventeen year olds had backed up into my room, came up through my toilet, through the sink, and through the shower. Luckily I'm a slob and I had everything mostly on my bed… So my room is flooded, not with water. I wanna make this perfectly clear. Not with water, but with human shit and water. I see turds floating in the water in my, I'm like, what the fuck? It is disgusting. 158 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,160 Kelsey Snelling: And when Nelson called David to tell him what happened, 159 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,360 Kelsey Snelling: this was the response he remembers getting. 160 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:52,520 Nelson: He was like, oh my God. So he sends-I felt so bad for them- two women who were like the cleaners. Gave them masks and like some gloves to clean up the. And then I helped them clean. 161 00:18:53,320 --> 00:19:20,560 Kelsey Snelling: So that was at Ferndale. And it doesn’t seem like the other locations were much better. Counselors like Derek, who worked at the satellite camp in California in 2015, were thrown in the deep end without any warning. Derek is not this counselor's real name – he asked that we keep that information private. When Derek first arrived at camp, another staff member pulled him aside and told him something that freaked him out: 162 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,119 Derek: She was like, don't believe everything you've read about David, 163 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,000 Derek: And at this point, I haven't read anything about David. 164 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,240 Derek: And then she tells us that he went to prison, 165 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,560 Derek: and were like, what what happened? 166 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,080 Kelsey Snelling: To be clear, David hadn't actually gone to prison, as 167 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,240 Kelsey Snelling: I mentioned before, He had been sentenced to four years 168 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,840 Kelsey Snelling: of probation and four hundred hours of community service in 169 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,040 Kelsey Snelling: two thousand and four for dodging income taxes related to 170 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:51,600 Kelsey Snelling: the camp. Nevertheless, Derek didn't really trust David. As he 171 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,400 Kelsey Snelling: tells it, Derek fought every day to keep the camp 172 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,600 Kelsey Snelling: afloat and the kids entertained without any training schedule or 173 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,639 Kelsey Snelling: guidance from the Ferndale headquarters. 174 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,680 Derek: It felt like every day we'd sit down at breakfast 175 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,600 Derek: and be like, what on earth are we going to 176 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:05,960 Derek: do today? 177 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,160 Kelsey Snelling: Derek and his fellow counselors weren't working with much. 178 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:43,800 Derek: We opened the supply closet and it was literally a, a single rubber made container with like seven, you know, double XL, triple XL Camp Shane shirts, a promotional Frisbee, two baseball gloves, and then like a basketball that had, you know, literally survived the Reagan administration and was still kicking… And it's like, oh my God, we're in real trouble here. Like, we are in serious trouble. We have no idea how we're gonna do this for six weeks. 179 00:20:44,760 --> 00:21:07,160 Kelsey Snelling: And that equipment was supposed to be enough for the roughly 60 kids attending the California camp in 2015. Camp in California lasted six weeks that summer, and for each of those weeks Derek and his staff improvised. He told me that it was a lot of walking around aimlessly and a lot of basketball. But at least they kept the camp running. 180 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:37,240 Derek: It's one of those things where I guess if you go and see like a, Blockbuster movie that comes out on July 4th weekend and it's got a $250 million budget, you're expecting these great things and like, it has to live up to that expectation. And so were we the summer blockbuster? No, absolutely not. But for what we had in the group of people that we had, like we were the, the indie picture that punched way above its budget, like, we somehow put something together. 181 00:21:39,800 --> 00:22:11,000 Kelsey Snelling: As counselors like Derek and Nelson struggled to navigate a path forward without Simon, Camp Shane’s happy facade was getting harder to maintain. Derek was barely holding Camp Shane California together but Shane’s other locations were also struggling. Kellye Holdridge saw through the facade the moment she brought her 10-year old daughter Sadie to the satellite camp in Florida. At drop off, Kellye and her husband John realized something was off. 182 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:36,480 Kellye: They then called this little girl who was around Sadie's age and said, take Sadie to her room and show her parents around. So we found that very odd. So we went up to the dorm room and, the little girl was saying, I've been here almost all summer. She goes, I hate it. You’re gonna hate it. She goes, you know how they advertise on the pamphlet that you go horseback riding and you do this and you do that. She goes, you don't do any of those things. 183 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:48,960 Kelsey Snelling: For Kellye, this was not a promising start. And it only got more ominous. A lot of the campers who were much older than Sadie seemed to be struggling with more than just their weight. 184 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,399 Kellye: In the dorms, there were much older boys that had 185 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,879 Kellye: their rooms like right down from her, and she said 186 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,840 Kellye: that she had heard that one young man that he 187 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:03,439 Kellye: was disturbed and that he was telling everybody that he 188 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,400 Kellye: tried to kill his family, tried to set the house 189 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:06,919 Kellye: on fire. 190 00:23:08,040 --> 00:24:07,520 Kelsey Snelling: Kellye begged her daughter to reconsider. But Sadie was determined to stay. It had actually been her idea to go to a weight loss camp in the first place. She told her parents she would be fine. So Kellye chose to trust her daughter and reluctantly left. She hoped she was overthinking it and things were better than they seemed. While Sadie was at camp, Kellye and John tried checking in. It was difficult for them to get in touch with their daughter. It seemed to them as though the communication between campers and parents was being monitored. Every time Kellye reached out to talk to Sadie, the person who answered the phone would just tell her that their daughter was doing great. They couldn’t even get ahold of Sadie on her birthday. Kellye didn’t hear from Sadie for about a week and grew increasingly anxious. Finally, after several long days with no communication, Sadie made contact. 191 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:26,719 Kellye: Finally we got connected and Sadie is on the phone with her dad at the time, and she just breaks out crying, come get me, come get me, please come get me. She told her dad. She said she was scared. She said, I'm scared. And so he's like, oh my god, guys, I gotta go. I got, I was like, go, go, go. 192 00:24:36,680 --> 00:25:13,160 Kelsey Snelling: John raced from South Carolina back to Florida to get Sadie. The entire time he drove, neither parent could make contact with the main office in New York to get David on the line. Luckily, when John finally arrived, Sadie was safe. When he did eventually get David on the phone to demand a refund, David pushed back. As Kellye and John remember it, David insisted that it wasn’t the camp’s fault if certain children – like their daughter – couldn’t handle the “Camp Shane experience.” Kellye had been onto Camp Shane from the get go. She thought the business was a scam. 193 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:22,680 Kellye: There was no guidance. It was more or less throw a bunch of kids at a place, call it a fitness camp by starving 'em. Naturally, they would lose some weight after two weeks. 194 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,000 Kelsey Snelling: Sadie wasn't the only camper who left early. Derek had 195 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,800 Kelsey Snelling: a similar experience in California with one of his campers. 196 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,000 Kelsey Snelling: At this point, Derek was thinking about quitting his job 197 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,120 Kelsey Snelling: at camp, having grown so frustrated with the working conditions. 198 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,000 Kelsey Snelling: Around the time he decided to leave for good, a 199 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,840 Kelsey Snelling: camper in his care was also reaching a breaking point. 200 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,439 Derek: The director and myself had taken a kid to the 201 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,679 Derek: hospital and the doctor said, like he's lost way too 202 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,679 Derek: much weight, he's extremely dehydrated. And like, if he's going 203 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,959 Derek: to stay at this camp, he needs to get supplemental nutrition. 204 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,640 Kelsey Snelling: Derek figured the camper couldn't stay at Shane any longer, 205 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,679 Kelsey Snelling: so he went rogue. 206 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,240 Derek: I had called the parent of this kid that had 207 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,280 Derek: gone to the hospital and I said, I don't think 208 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,720 Derek: your child is safe here. I think that he is 209 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,160 Derek: in risk of going to the hospital again because he's 210 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,600 Derek: being denied like the nutrition that he needs and the 211 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:28,560 Derek: calories he needs. 212 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,320 Kelsey Snelling: And after that call, with parental permission, Derek and the 213 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:34,919 Kelsey Snelling: kid snuck out of camp. 214 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,959 Derek: Everybody was asleep, and I went into this camper's room 215 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,960 Derek: and I said, pack your things, we're leaving. 216 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,000 Kelsey Snelling: The duo escaped together to meet up with the camper's 217 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,680 Kelsey Snelling: father in West Hollywood. If a counselor and a camper 218 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,399 Kelsey Snelling: fleeing the premises isn't a sign that things were falling apart, 219 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,920 Kelsey Snelling: I don't know what is. Derek actually express his concerns 220 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,359 Kelsey Snelling: about the lack of care at Shane early on that 221 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,240 Kelsey Snelling: summer before he quit. When David asked him to be 222 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,359 Kelsey Snelling: the new director of the California Satellite Camp, 223 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,800 Derek: I said, well one of my concerns, David, is that 224 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,720 Derek: you promised these parents that there was going to be 225 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,280 Derek: a nurse on staff and there's no medical personnel at all, 226 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:25,119 Derek: and me being the director, like, I don't have plausible deniability. 227 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,080 Derek: I sit at the top of this thing. The buck 228 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:27,760 Derek: stops with me. 229 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,880 Kelsey Snelling: It may seem surprising that more parents didn't catch on sooner, 230 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,400 Kelsey Snelling: but it seems that communication was restricted at the satellite 231 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,639 Kelsey Snelling: camps in a similar fashion to the main camp in Ferndale. 232 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,399 Kelsey Snelling: It may have been hard for parents to know what 233 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:43,960 Kelsey Snelling: their children were experiencing. 234 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,879 Derek: So you had five minutes to call your parents, and 235 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,679 Derek: the director from the New York office is if they 236 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,280 Derek: start to say anything negative about camp, you hang up 237 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,240 Derek: the call and move on to the next kid. And 238 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,720 Derek: that was like, that was the directive of what we 239 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,879 Derek: were supposed to do. So if a kid says like 240 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,479 Derek: I hated hear this or that, to hang up all right, 241 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,800 Derek: next person in the office. 242 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:53,800 Kelsey Snelling: So yes, some of this stuff would have probably been impossible to know. Even a thorough parent could be tricked by advertising, Yelp reviews, and the reality that sometimes kids exaggerate about their experiences. And if this were any old camp, maybe parents WOULD have noticed the red flags sooner. But there’s another piece of this – a piece that I think has been pervading since well before 1968, when Selma Ettenberg first opened the doors of Camp Shane. It taps into one of society's longest-held insecurities.At a fundamental level, I believe Camp Shane held tremendous power over people– with the promise of a transformed life. 243 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:59,320 Tigress: There's a huge amount of industry around weight and weight loss, 244 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,560 Tigress: in the medical establishment and in the commercial diet industry, 245 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,920 Tigress: and in the sort of like health and wellness world. 246 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:23,560 Kelsey Snelling: That’s Tigress Osborn, the Executive Director of the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance or NAAFA, a non profit that advocates for fat peoples’ civil rights. She suspects that the longevity of a place like Camp Shane is all about our continual obsession with being thin. 247 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:42,640 Tigress: Definitely one of the differences between body size and some other forms of discrimination is that people think you have a choice about it. That if you don't want to be discriminated against, if you don't wanna be treated poorly in your community, at your school, at your church, at your, you know, job, whatever, well then just change your body and then you won't have to worry about that anymore. 248 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,440 Kelsey Snelling: But putting the burden of weight loss on the individual 249 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,520 Kelsey Snelling: doesn't address the root issues. 250 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,040 Tigress: When we locate the problem in the body, not in 251 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,719 Tigress: the discrimination. We do that across the life span of people, 252 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,760 Tigress: all along the spectrum of your whole life. If you 253 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,600 Tigress: are fat at one point on that spectrum, or if 254 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,640 Tigress: you're fat for the whole spectrum, people will locate the 255 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,600 Tigress: bad things that happened to you in you instead of 256 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,480 Tigress: in the bad behavior that is happening to you. 257 00:30:12,440 --> 00:31:09,480 Kelsey Snelling: Nearly 50 years after it opened, Camp Shane was finding ways to exploit society’s obsession with weight, as well as the belief that it could and should be managed at an individual level. As long as that formula made sense, many people were willing to pursue thinness by any means necessary. In 2016, Nelson came back to work at Ferndale and, to him, it was pretty clear that Shane had not recovered from 2015. Barely any counselors had returned from the year prior and the crew was pretty inexperienced. Some may have been inebriated as well. Several people have told me that there was an irresponsible party and drinking culture among the counselors at that time. By now, Camp Shane and David were under a lot of pressure. Nelson started asking about the future of Camp. Knowing that it had struggled the summer before, he had questions. 258 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:17,080 Nelson: Who's direct? Who's this? Who's doing, what happening? Blah Blah. He didn't hire the right people. Didn't hire enough people. 259 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,560 Kelsey Snelling: As usual, it seemed like David was cutting corners. Not 260 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:26,080 Kelsey Snelling: to mention, David was also getting older. Counselors like Nelson 261 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,000 Kelsey Snelling: started to notice that he couldn't keep up with Camp 262 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,320 Kelsey Snelling: like Simon had. 263 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:52,760 Nelson: It really went from someone with 20 years of experience who like ran that camp to David trying to step in and do something he hadn't done for 20 years at like 70 years old.There was a like few times where we were like, is David gonna make it? Like he's exhausted? And then there was, there was one time where I'm like, on the golf cart on the four wheeler and I see him just like, like leaned up against the building. I was like, is this guy gonna die? Like, does he have a heart attack? 264 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,440 Kelsey Snelling: And like David, the camp seemed to be getting weaker too. 265 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,880 Nelson: It was, like I said, slowly watching something you loved 266 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,760 Nelson: in a place you'd called home like die in front 267 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:07,600 Nelson: of you in real time. 268 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,600 Kelsey Snelling: As Camp struggled onward, Nelson remembered a conversation he'd had 269 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,920 Kelsey Snelling: with Carl, another camper turned counselor years before. 270 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,280 Nelson: I remember talking to Carl and I said, Carl, you 271 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,280 Nelson: were here for so long. When did you know it 272 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,120 Nelson: was time to leave? And Carl said, it's the summer 273 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,880 Nelson: after the summer you spent trying to chase the 274 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:29,480 Nelson: summer before. 275 00:32:29,240 --> 00:34:26,000 Kelsey Snelling: Simon was gone, buildings were in disrepair, and David was now in his 70s. Parents were getting fed up and children were getting hurt. 2018 was the last summer for Camp Shane in Ferndale, NY. What finally shut down Camp Shane is hard to say. Maybe it was the after effects of Simon leaving. Maybe it was Camp Shane’s focus on money over the wellbeing of the campers Shane claimed to serve. Maybe it was a changing culture that was starting to question this form of weight loss. Maybe it was doomed to fail from the beginning. Whatever the reason, it came to fruition in early 2019. That year, David sold the Ferndale property to a group of investors for over 6 million dollars. Selma originally bought the campgrounds in 1968 for about 50 thousand dollars. I think she would have been rolling in her grave if she knew how much money her son had made off of it, after—as she saw it— stealing the business and kicking her out. I don’t think the old Ettenberg family wounds ever healed. It’s spelled out on Selma and Irving’s headstones. Irving’s read “loving husband, father, and grandfather,” Selma’s has no mention of her role as a mother or grandmother. It simply reads “devoted wife.” Oof. For 50 years, the cabins at Shane had been filled with hopeful kids and raucous laughter. Now, they were silent. After the camp closed, Nelson went back one last time to say goodbye. 276 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:40,640 Nelson: It was deserted. Like all the stuff in the office was gone. Everything that we like, knew and loved about it. Like all the plaques from all from like, from decades of college days and color war and the bunk plaque, everything gone. 277 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,640 Kelsey Snelling: But maybe the utopia Nelson and others were mourning never 278 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:59,239 Kelsey Snelling: existed in the first place. Next time on Camp Shane. 279 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,920 Seth: And he just kept chipping away and chipping away, chipping away, 280 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,360 Seth: and I really wish I could remember how it started, 281 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,120 Seth: and it's sort of escalated from there. 282 00:35:09,800 --> 00:36:17,200 Kelsey Snelling: We reached out to Simon Greenwood, David Ettenberg and his wife Ziporah Janowski for comment; at the time of this recording we have not received a reply Camp Shame is a production of iHeartPodcasts. I’m your host, Kelsey Snelling. Camp Shame is produced by Brittany Martinez, Taylor Williamson, Sara Schleede, Luci Jones and Alyia Yates Grau. Our Editor is Courtenay Hameister with additional Editorial support from Lindsey Kratochwill and Grace Lynch. Our executive producers are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rudder and me, Kelsey Snelling. For iHeartMedia, our executive producer is Cristina Everett. Fact checking done by Madeline Goore, Luci Jones, Paloma Moreno Jimenez, Lauren Williams and Fiona Pestana. Our theme music is produced by Sean Petell. Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @CampShame – that's with an M!-- If you or anyone you know went to Camp Shane reach out with your camp stories