1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenny, and this is episode number nine. 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: Today we're joined by Craig Doherty, co author of the 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: much acclaimed book White Tails From Ground to Gun. We'll 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: be discussing the concept of ground to gun hunting, which 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: the CEO of the Quality Deer Management Association calls a 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: monumental leap into a new area of whitetail knowledge. Stick around, folks, 10 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: because you don't want to miss this now. Before we 11 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: get started here today, I want to quickly apologize in 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: advance for a few audio issues in this upcoming interview 13 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: due to a poor phone connection with our guest. Thanks 14 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: in advance for your understanding. Alright, Hello wire Hunt Nation, 15 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: and thank you all so much for being with us today. 16 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: We've got an extra special episode of the Wired Hunt 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: Podcast because joining me in Dan today is a board 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: member of the Quality Deer Management Association, the president of 19 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: the wildlife consulting company North Country White Tales, and the 20 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: bestselling author of two books, grom Right and White Tales 21 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: from Ground to Gun. This is Mr Craig Doherty. Welcome 22 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: to show. Craig, Well, thank you. Happy to be with 23 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: you in your podcasters. Yeah, we are thrilled heavy here 24 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: today as well, and you know that, said Craig. Today 25 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: we're hoping to chat about this concept of ground to 26 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: gun hunting, which your newest book is really focused on. 27 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: But before we get to that, you know, could you 28 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more about yourself and how 29 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 1: you can be the author of this book. Well, Mark, 30 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: I've been Uh, I've been, of course a lifetime hunter 31 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: like oh this a lot of us and I put 32 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: it in a few years out there after deer and uh, 33 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: But basically I've been in the hunting industry for about 34 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: thirty five years STI been in the archery industry, working 35 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: as a senior executive with a number of companies including 36 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: a Golden Eagle Archery and Bear Archery, kind of part 37 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: of the ownership group of those companies. And I've served 38 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,399 Speaker 1: over the years on many boards within the hunting industry, 39 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: National Bowing, Our Education, Archery Trade Association, and etcetera. So, um, 40 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: hunting is both my vocation and my application, and deer 41 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: hunting is what I'm all about and I raised the 42 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: sun in a similar tradition who wound up a becoming 43 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: a wildlife consultant, and we started North Country white Tails 44 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: together about fifteen years and now ago. And my son 45 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: Neil is that's all he does is every day of 46 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: his life he's on land somewhere doing something with here. 47 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: So over that time you pick up a few things 48 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: you know, and you begin to und stand a few 49 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: things and learn a few things. And the best part 50 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: of it all is you interface with so many people 51 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: who hunt deer and experienced deer hunting at all different 52 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: levels and working with land and working with landowners. UM. 53 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: We turned our five acre property here in upstate New 54 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: York into a demo center. We worked with Biologic as 55 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: their Northern research arm and the same with an white 56 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: Tail Institute. So we've been deeply into the whole habitat 57 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: part of this deer equation since really the late eighties 58 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: when it all started. I think about the whole food plot. 59 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: Things started and people began planting for deer and managing 60 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: habitat for deer, and we converted our property into a 61 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: demo center. We've had well over three thousand people through 62 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: it over the years who come in to look and 63 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: learn and see, and uh we we We've spent tons 64 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: of time with the public, answering their questions and listening 65 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: to their questions and listening to their answers to our questions. 66 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: And as far as the book goes, uh the ground 67 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: A gun title is really an extension of where it 68 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: was ten years ago. Ten years ago, fifteen years ago, 69 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: the public were all about the north, and the northern 70 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: people were saying, hey, can you grow flutplots in the north? 71 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: That literally was the most commonly asked questions ten years ago. 72 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: And of course we've got a huge distance and and 73 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: that since then, and people are managing property all over 74 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: this country, all over the United States, and the questions 75 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: have shifted from how do you work with a property? 76 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: To now that I've grown a mature buck or two, 77 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: how the heck do I kill him? And this is 78 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: what my son Neil spends virtually all of us time 79 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: doing with clients, is helping them develop great hunting properties, 80 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: but more so, how do I hunt it? Now that 81 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: I've got some deer out here with some age on them? 82 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: And the real operative question today's dear world is how 83 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: do I kill them? Mature dear, because more and more 84 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: people are passing up young bucks. The the you know, 85 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: quality dear management has taken hold and virtually everywhere, there's 86 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: more and more two and three and five year old 87 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: deer out there. And that's not the same, dear as 88 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: that year and a half that everyone killed, and you 89 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: need to think about them a lot differently. And we 90 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: think we have a few answers that we've developed over 91 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: the years. Yeah, well, uh, I can say from from 92 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: reading your books over the over the past couple of 93 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: years that it sure seems like you you do have 94 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: some of those answers. From what I've seen, there's some 95 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: really interesting stuff there. So, as I mentioned at the 96 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: top of the show, we wanted to dive more into 97 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: this topic of grounded gun hunting, which you know, your 98 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: your newest book, White Us Some Ground Gun Covers, which 99 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: also as of this week, is available as an e 100 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: book format on Amazon, I belief. But with that said, 101 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: could you kind of break down exactly for us what 102 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: does ground to gun hunting mean? Well, Mark the the 103 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: the essence of ground to gun is the connection between 104 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: understanding land and understanding deer. And we really don't believe 105 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: you can fully understand dear unless you understand how land works. 106 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: They're so connected, intertratly connected, they're inseparable. And frankly, I've 107 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: been a lifetime hunter, but a hundred twenty years or 108 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: deer without understanding land. And I got lucky and was 109 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: able to get some land and work on land all 110 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: the time. And when I began to understand how land 111 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: worked and where things grew and why they grew, and 112 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: what was the warm side of a slope for to 113 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: the cold side of the slope, and why I should 114 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: be on the warm side and hunting in December and 115 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: on the cool side hunting in September, I began to 116 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: understand that there was a very deep connection between how 117 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: deer used land and how land works itself. So our 118 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: book is not only about going hunting, that understanding how 119 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: dear us land and how how land influencers dear behavior, 120 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: dear movement. And we think that's the key to really 121 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: becoming a finished, accomplished deer hunter. That makes that makes 122 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me. Um So your your book, 123 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: like you mentioned, talking about both the land and then 124 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: how to hunt those deer on the land, You've you've 125 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: broken up your book into two parts or two parts, 126 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: part one being focusing on that land side of the equation. 127 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: And you know, while going thro those first couple of 128 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: a couple of chapters, some of the things that I 129 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: found very interesting with the fact that you were looking 130 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: at you know, what does a piece of honey ground 131 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: have to have to hold a mature dear, to be 132 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: able to grow mature dear and to eventually be a 133 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: good hunting property as well. So could you share with 134 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: us a little bit about, you know what those aspects 135 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: of a property are that will result in that great 136 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: hunting property that we're all looking for. Well Mark the uh, 137 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: the we we deal with land all the time. Um, 138 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: basically we work on people's properties, we work on our 139 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: own property, and we look for properties for people to buy, 140 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: and so we see a lot of grounds and basically 141 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: there are certain things we look for when we're going 142 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: to get a put someone into a hunting property, and 143 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: something that people would look for. And I'll be honest, 144 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: I don't need to have it come out the wrong way, 145 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: but the wrong guy to get you a hunting property 146 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: is a real or I happened to be a licensed 147 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: real estate agent here in New York States, And uh, 148 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: that's not how I make my living. But I needed 149 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 1: to do it because I was involved with some real 150 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: estate deals over the years. But um, you know real 151 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: or self issues. They understand real estate through a concept 152 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: call comparables. You know, every house in this block is 153 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: somewhere between two hundred and two hundred thirty thousand dollars, 154 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: give or take. And that's not the way hunting property is. Uh. 155 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: We have a concept we refer to I've written about 156 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: called huntable acres. Uh. Take three acres for instance. Um, 157 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: you can see three hundred acres and two hundred eighty 158 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: seven of them are all huntable. Any place on that 159 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 1: two seven acres you can rega stand and kill a deer. 160 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: There's a three hundred acres or half mile down the road, 161 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: and maybe only seventy eight acres of it is unable. 162 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: So if people are looking for a piece of hunting ground, 163 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: the first thing you understand is how any how much 164 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: of that is huntable? And what do I mean by huntable? Well, 165 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: if there's many old farms, are all the fields are 166 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: along the road. So let's say it's a two fifty 167 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: acre farm, But if a hundred acres of it is 168 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: all hay fields that run along a public road, which 169 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: is very common because that's how you get your tractors 170 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: and hay wagons in and out of out of the 171 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 1: hay fields. So most of those hay fields are not 172 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: really gonna be where you're gonna be hunting. Um, they're 173 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: poachable there, deer get harassed, Your old deer won't be 174 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: out in those invisible very much. And you're not gonna 175 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: want to have that kind of a piece of ground, 176 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 1: so you look for hunterable acres. We've had uh situations 177 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: where we were we've sold some property and we've lost 178 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: the sail for two hundred dollars. The guy went down 179 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: the road and bought his own three acres and saved 180 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: two hundred bucks apiece. I'd save two hundred eight dollars 181 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: an acre. And what he bought was a hundred acres 182 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: of huntable land and two hundreds of non huntable land. 183 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: And so you've got to think that way. Uh, You've 184 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: got to think how does the wind go across the property. 185 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: That's very very important in terms of hunt ability. If 186 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: you're property is all up and down and ridges and 187 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: gullies and swirls um and if you're a bowl hunter, 188 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: you may not be able to hunt that much of 189 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: that property. That doesn't mean it's bad. That doesn't mean 190 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: it's bad, But you've got to think about whether to 191 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: place you're buying is easy to hunt or not. In 192 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: the more populated areas, you need to think through very carefully. 193 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: The neighborhood neighborhoods matter. If you're going in and looking 194 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: at a place and you're gonna take a look at 195 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: the property and the road that rings it is, you know, 196 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: surrounded by junkyard dogs on chains and there's a bunch 197 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: of racks nailed to every garage of year and a 198 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: half old deer, and you pretty clear signal there that 199 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: there's a lot of hunting going on in that neighborhood 200 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: and not a lot of quality hunting. And you might 201 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: want to do some background checking to see if the 202 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: neighborhood you're moving into is going to be hunter friendly 203 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: or you know, the kind of hunting you want to 204 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: do friendly. Some places are notorious for being poached, and 205 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: like it or not, that that's a reality, and you're 206 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: your time with that in that property can be holy hell. 207 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: If all you're spending your time doing is trying to 208 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: run trespassers off of it. So there's a lot of 209 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: factors that go into what makes a good deer hunting property, 210 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: but untable acres is important. Is it going to be 211 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: easy to hunt? Um, we don't worry a lot about 212 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: the deer population. A lot of people get sucked into Wow, 213 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: there's a lot of deer there. Well, as long as 214 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: there's some deer there, you can make more dear by 215 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: the way you hunt and what you do with the 216 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: liond We were a little bit more if there over 217 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: crowded with deer and they've wiped out all the good habitat. 218 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: But so numbers of deer you've got to have a 219 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: basis to begin with. But you can do a lot 220 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: about that. But if you're in a neighborhood of five 221 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: square miles and everybody there is an outlaw and everybody's 222 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: a poacher, that that's to be definitely avoided. The best 223 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: thing you can see on on the neighbor property is 224 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 1: you get down the road, would be a quality year 225 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: management sign on their trees where they say we practice 226 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: quality deer management. That's the neighborhood you want to be in, 227 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: because they're not going to be poaching. They're not going 228 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: to be doing all the stuff that's gonna make your 229 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: life how as a landowner. Yeah, So this brings of 230 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: a question that I often have kind of asked myself 231 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: and have talked about the number of people. You know, 232 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: what would you prefer, Craig? Would you rather have a 233 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: subpar property in a great neighborhood or a property that 234 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: looks absolutely dynamite, has everything you could potentially want to 235 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: be great hunting property to hold dear, But you've got 236 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 1: a neighborhood full of maybe not all outlaws, but some 237 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: questionable practice people and different things like that. Would you 238 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: rather have the great house or the great neighborhood? That's 239 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: a tough question. Neither neither or both. They're both evils. Frankly, 240 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: I guess I'd rather probably, I think a subpar property 241 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: I would probably prefer in a great neighborhood because I 242 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: think the subpar will be more than compensated for by 243 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: dear availability. And by subpar I don't quite know much 244 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: what you mean. Can you help me with that a 245 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: little bit? I just mean relative. Let's say there's your 246 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: your ideal hunting property, which you just described. You know 247 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: that has good um, good wind, it has you know, 248 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: the ability to access it, it's got a lot of 249 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: hundle bakers, all those things that make a good property. 250 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: Let's say maybe this is a property this lack in 251 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: a couple of those categories. It's maybe not a hundred 252 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: acres of just a hayfield, but it's not your perfect 253 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: property either. Yeah, well that that could be a deal 254 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: breaker for me simply because let's say we're dealing with 255 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: two hundred acres. If you're only buying sixty acres that 256 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: are huntable, then you're you're wasting a lot of money, 257 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: no matter what the neighborhoods like. So that could be 258 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: if there's no finite answer to that market, it's going 259 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: to be a tradeoff either way. In some cases, if 260 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: you have a bad neighborhood and some trespassing that can 261 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: be shut down, and we write about that in the book, 262 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: people say, well, why do you write about that in 263 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: the book? Because my son works with hundreds of landowners 264 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: every year, and guess what, that's a very frequently asked question. 265 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: How do I shut down this trespassing? What do I do? 266 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: And there's ways to do that, and you know, of 267 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: the time you're successful. If that's the only issue. If 268 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: they poach every buck that gets a rack on his 269 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: head and starts to go horns antlers, that's another matter. 270 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: That one might be such a severe issue that you'll 271 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: never get an age on a deer in your neighborhood. 272 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: And uh, gosh, that's a big deal breaker. Yeah. Well, 273 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: like you said, it's a there's no perfect answer that 274 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: to question, but it's an interesting, interesting one to think about. 275 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: I'm constantly bouncing around on that one myself, but it is. 276 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: You know, we did, uh we've over the years developed 277 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: the rating scale properties because we deal with a lot 278 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: of them, and I think we have about eight criteria 279 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: and and Neil actually scores properties before he he advises 280 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people on purchases. And I'm not trying 281 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: to sell people anything, but you know, somebody's gonna buy 282 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: their kids a three thousand dollars, go to school, use car, 283 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: you know, transportation, they have a mechanic come out and 284 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: look at under the hood to see if they're gonna, 285 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: you know, waste their money. And people go out and 286 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: spend half a million bucks on a property and don't 287 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: even take the try able to have somebody check it 288 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: out beforehand, and he does a lot of that in 289 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,719 Speaker 1: his consulting work. And frankly, it's the best you know, 290 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: thousand bucks you're ever going to spend to have somebody 291 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: look who knows what they're doing look something over before 292 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: you go ahead and plunked down four hundred thousand dollars 293 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah. No, that makes lot of sense. And 294 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: if I if I remember correctly, you guys cover some 295 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: of those criteria in in the book as well. Is 296 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: that correct? We do. Yeah, they're in the book and 297 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: we laid them right out there and took us probably 298 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 1: ten years to developed the scale and that they matter. 299 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: Soil matters, and hunt ability matters, and wind matters and 300 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: and the neighborhood matters and the dear population matters. That 301 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: that we have about a criteria and we discussed them 302 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: very thoroughly. Okay, interesting a lot, Dan, You've been pretty 303 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: quiet so far. I'm curious what are your thoughts on 304 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: all this. I'm just soaking this all in. He's given 305 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: out some great advice here for free, and I'll take 306 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: free advice any day, but you'll take free anything exactly. 307 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: So my question is, Okay, so we've we've found our 308 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: perfect piece of property. We've purchased it for for the 309 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: readers or for the listeners out there. What would your 310 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: recommendation or tips or tricks be for the first thing 311 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: to do to that property to get it to be 312 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, to get it enhanced, to get it to 313 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: be more of a successful white tail hunting property. Well, 314 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna take the cheap answer and then 315 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: the right answer first, but not the one you want. 316 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: The first thing you should do is get a good 317 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: wildlife guy out there that knows how property should be 318 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: set up and happen, do a wildlife plan for you 319 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: and tailor to your deeds. Okay, but that's not probably 320 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: where you wanted to go with that question. Um. One 321 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: of the first things we tell people to do and 322 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: it puts a smile on their face. There's a lot 323 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: of visitors to our property been just bought land, and 324 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: they're about as poor. They're about as poor as they 325 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: can be because they've just plunked down a bunch of 326 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: money and their wife has just said, if you spend 327 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: one penny more on this hunting land, you know, we're 328 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: going to go see a lawyer. And it's not about 329 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 1: a closing and sound familiar guys sou, But frankly, uh, 330 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: the most underrated deal if you've got five more, is 331 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: a chainsaw and some safety chaps and glasses and air 332 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: air protection and helmets, because you can do more for 333 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: white tailed property with a chainsaw than you can with 334 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: a plow and in a hundred and forty thousand dollar 335 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: tractor and a bunch of disks and a bunch of 336 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: corn planners. Um. A chainsaw is really does a lot 337 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: for property, especially in new one that hasn't been worked over, 338 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: and that there's a lot of uh, a lot of 339 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: daylight being blocked from getting onto the ground. And you 340 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 1: get in there and do some clear cutting and some 341 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: browse cutting as we call it, and some hinge cutting 342 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: and create some cover, and you create some food and 343 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: you create some security all at the same time. And frankly, 344 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: it doesn't require a lot of money to do that. 345 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: And everybody wants to jump into the planting game right away, 346 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: the food block game, and if you don't have agricultural 347 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: fields that are ready to be planted and equipment to 348 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: do it, it becomes a pretty complicated and costly endeavor. Eventually, 349 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: most folks get there, but you're gonna take baby steps 350 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: in most cases. So the first thing I'd say is 351 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: get your chain saw going and start making some browse 352 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: cuts and some brush cuts, some some areas where deer 353 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: is gonna want to lay up and when the pressure 354 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: gets on, and where they want to go in there 355 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: and feed, and where right now this time of year, 356 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: there the does are gonna want to drop their fonds 357 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: so the predators can't scoop them all up before they 358 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: learn how to walk. Yeah, I think that's That's a 359 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: big part of what I took from your first for 360 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: your first book, Grow Right, was was the power of 361 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: that chainsaw. Now, for for someone who's maybe not familiar 362 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: with this concept of creating betting cover, you know, with 363 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: cuts like that, could you share us a little bit 364 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: more about how you'd use the chainsaw to go in 365 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: there and make these betting ears, maybe a little more 366 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: detail other than just cutting. Well, you're not going to 367 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: go in and cut down a beautiful mature oak woods 368 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: or or hardwoods or something like that's great betting cover, 369 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: but most most properties have a fringe cover. A lot 370 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: of people call it, or more precisely, it would be 371 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: early successional habitat where the old fields have grown back 372 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: for maybe they've been growing ten, fifteen, twenty years, and 373 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 1: what we call pole timber on them it might be 374 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: four inches across or eight inches across or six or four. 375 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: And this kind of habitat is taking over open space 376 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: is and what it's doing is basically blocking sun from 377 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: hitting the ground. And if you think about where a 378 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: deer lives and how they live, what matters? What? Nothing 379 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: matters over six ft high from the ground, nothing matters 380 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: to a deer because they that's as high as they 381 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: reach to eat, basically six ft. So what you do 382 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: is go in and typically cut that pull timber or 383 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: that early successional timber. Let it fall. Let it just 384 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: fall down like pick up sticks every which way, and 385 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: it makes a big mess. And the good news is 386 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: now the sun can hit the ground and there's a 387 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: dormant siege lane in that ground. And next spring or 388 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: even that year, a lot of that stuff will sprout again. 389 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: Those dormant siege will germinate and sprout a lot of 390 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: the stumps you left will shoot up. Call them suckers 391 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: are offshoots, and they're One other trick is that we 392 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: call hinge cutting where you cut the old timber all 393 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: three quarters of the way six eighths so the way 394 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: or seven eighths of the way through. Then it tips over, 395 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: but part of the timbers and tacts still you haven't 396 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: cut clean through the tree, and that root system will 397 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: feed that that pole for a year, two three years 398 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: sometimes and all of a sudden everything that was out 399 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: of that deer's reach is within deer's reach and it's 400 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: still growing. So there's a lot of food there. Now. 401 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: If you take an acre and you cut the stems 402 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: on that acre and you put them on the ground, 403 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: you've created a giant football field of cover and it's 404 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 1: just a virtual mess, but it is loaded with food. Now, 405 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: it's loaded with bedding and hiding places, and it becomes 406 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: a secure area for a deer. Yeah, I've had I've 407 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: had really good success of that too on some of 408 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,719 Speaker 1: my my Michigan properties. It's it's incredible what you can 409 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: do with just a few a few hours out there 410 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: with a chainsaw. Like you said, there's food, there's begging, 411 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: and it's it's it really is. And again Neil worked 412 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: for both Biologic and the Whitetail Institute, so he there's 413 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: nobody knows more about food plots and planting green plots 414 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 1: than than Neil and knows how to do it and 415 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: believes in it. But there's a big return on working 416 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: with natural habitat and natural vegetation and it doesn't cost 417 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: the same amount of money. The other thing is we've 418 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: we've taken it kind of to a more efficient level. Um, 419 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: not everybody can do this, but we you can. We 420 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: call it crush your brush. When you have three or 421 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: four or five inch round timber like that, we often 422 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: lease a dozer and a doz are operator. You're not 423 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: gonna want to do this yourself because it's very dangerous, 424 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: and just drive over that stuff and knock it to 425 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: the ground and let it tip over and let it 426 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: go sideways in every which way, and you can do 427 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: about five acres an hour. And basically that's that's pretty 428 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: darn quick, depending on how dense it is compared to 429 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: what you do with a chainsaw, it's just a lot faster, 430 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: a lot more efficient. And if you're in a hurry 431 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: to get it done and you don't have a lot 432 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: of weekends, sometimes crushing your brushworks good. We we kind 433 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: of write about that a lot in our books. No, 434 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: I can see that working really well, so that was 435 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: kind of a perfect transitioner. You mentioned the fact that 436 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: Neil has worked with both Biologic and Whitetail Institute. What 437 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,479 Speaker 1: would you say on the food plot topic. What do 438 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: you think one of the biggest mistakes that people make 439 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: when it comes to food plots right now? Uh, the 440 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: biggest mistake I think people are making is it's a 441 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: little disturbing to me um because I believe that food 442 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: plots property to use as food plots should make effort 443 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: to food feed deer all year long, and lot of 444 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: people now are doing nothing but annual plantings. They're putting 445 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: them in the ground in August, late season and hunting 446 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: primarily for hunting over them. And that makes for good hunting, 447 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: But I don't think it balances the other side of 448 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: the equation enough where you give something back to wildlife 449 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: and you're willing to take the sacrifice of wildlife make 450 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: now and you hunt them. But I would like to 451 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 1: see food plotters invest at least of their property in 452 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: annual plantings where deminuted things green up in the spring 453 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: light right now, and most places are very green now. 454 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: We're just getting there in upstate New York. You're probably 455 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: somewhere in between in Michigan. But I think we're over 456 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: relying on annual plannings that go in late fall are 457 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: late summer, and we hunt over them and call it done. 458 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: And I'd like to see the planning um have a 459 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: broader benefit to wildlife from spring right well into winter. Yeah, no, 460 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 1: I can. I can totally understand that, Dan. Do you 461 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: have any other last questions on the on the landside 462 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: of things before we transition into the hunting part of 463 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: the book. Well, okay, so someone like myself, I don't hunt, 464 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: or I don't own property, and I don't least property, 465 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: so as far as the manipulation I can do to 466 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: a property is very minimum, to say the least. Is 467 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: there any uh, tips or tricks for someone in my 468 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: position that might be able to do very minimal uh, 469 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: you know, terranipulation h for for better success? Sure, Dan, 470 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: one of the things you can do is buy accomplish 471 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: and and take a look at appo map and maybe 472 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: a little area of where you're gonna hunt. Um, you 473 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: started by saying you don't hunt. You didn't mean that, 474 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't. Okay, Okay, But you don't have. 475 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: You don't hunt on land you own or can manipulate. 476 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: But you've got to remember the weather manipulates that land 477 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: every single day of the year. And we talk about 478 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,479 Speaker 1: hunting by the compass um. For instance, the early season 479 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: in the north, Uh, it's gonna be cool and wet 480 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 1: and moist and good groceries are growing many times on 481 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: northern facing slopes where they've been cooler all summer. They 482 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: haven't been hitting hit by the drought. They've been wetter 483 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: because they're more moisture in the north facing slope normally. 484 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: So that that's land that's being manipulated by mother nature. 485 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: Mother nature is manipulating herself, and not in a manipulative way, 486 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: in a natural way. But knowing land doesn't require to 487 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: own land. You just have to understand land. We talked 488 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: about that as well. Fast forward three months. It's late season. 489 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: Now you have you're on a ground and there's a 490 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: southern exposure. Guess what that southern exposure, it's going to 491 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: produce food a good probably a full month longer into 492 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: the winter than the northern exposure. So you're going to 493 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: shift your focus and hunt that southern exposure. Things will 494 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: grow longer in into November into December. If there's some 495 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: spring seeps or any kind of water speeds on southern exposures, 496 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: they'll remain green in well into the winter. Normally it's 497 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: a warmer place. It's out of the north fighting north wind, 498 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: so you can learn how land works without owning it 499 00:29:54,480 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: and manipulating it. And winds shift and shift to more 500 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,959 Speaker 1: or less at west northwest wind, and most areas late 501 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: in the season they start out farther in the south 502 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: and most areas, so yeah, go. What you can do 503 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: is figure out how the sun moves over the property, 504 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: where things grow, at what time of year. And the 505 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: deer have already figured this out about you know, years ago, 506 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: and Mama teaches it to the fawns, and and there 507 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: are places on our property that you won't find a 508 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: deer on the north slope in December. They'll be all 509 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: over the southern exposures. And that's where you're gonna be 510 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: in that you're gonna hunt because the habitat there is 511 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: tailor made for him. I love that idea of hunting 512 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: by the compass. That's that's pretty interesting. So continuing then, 513 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: as we shift to the side of the part two 514 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: of the book that's really focused more on hunting those 515 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: mature bucks once you've developed a property or have a 516 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: property that holds them. In the book, you mentioned the 517 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: fact that you know, you guys believe that mature bucks 518 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: have unique personalities, and I really like this concept. Can 519 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: you elaborate a little bit more about how you think 520 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: you know these bucks have their own personalities? And then 521 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: as hunters, how can we learn a buck's personality and 522 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: then use that to our advantage? Well, I guess it's 523 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: how do you know? When you know? How did we 524 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: why did we conclude that? Uh, I'm talking to you 525 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: now from a cabin, and I saw a deer moved 526 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: by the cabin about thirty minutes ago. And and Neil 527 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: is on the land too, So I don't think there's 528 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: a day goes by. At least five six out of 529 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: seven days a year. I'm watching deer, and so is 530 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: my son Neil in the woods all the time. So 531 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: you begin to pick some things up. But what we 532 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: with total certainty, we we understand and we've seen personalities 533 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: emerge on deer dear that we've known. We had a 534 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: deer here two and a half year old buck once 535 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: We call him e Vander after Vander Holyfield. And he 536 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: was a fighting fool and this tear. Every time we 537 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: saw him on camera, he was bristled up. Every time 538 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: he was at the group, he was he was cowing 539 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: the other bucks in the group. He was constantly spoiling 540 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: for a fight. Bye bye. Two weeks into the bow season, 541 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: he had half of his times were snapped off from fighting. 542 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: And he was a very aggressive deer. And you can 543 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: hunt him with rattling horns and and you can uh, 544 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: you can hunt him with grunt calls and all kinds 545 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: of aggressive hunting tactics will work on a deer like that. Frankly, 546 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: the neighbor down the road shot him in the backyard 547 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: because the Vander came in and started picking a fight 548 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: with a life size and ear target and they shot 549 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: him off the back porch with a bow. He didn't care. 550 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: And we've had we have deer here that we never 551 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: photographed in the day. We never see them in the day. 552 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: We find their sheds, uh in their very secretive, very 553 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: unaggressive deer and their home bodies. We have a lot 554 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: of cameras we use. And this deer one I killed 555 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: a number of years ago. I got very very lucky, 556 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: very late in the year. He was driven out into 557 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: the feeding situation because of a terrible weather, and he 558 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: showed himself during the last ten minutes of daylight and 559 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: I killed him with a muscle loader. But that buck 560 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: would show up at night, but you wouldn't see him today. 561 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: If if you, if you believe the concept and you 562 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: internalize everything happens for a reason in the woods then 563 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: and look for reasons all the time, you can begin 564 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: to put the patterns together. But the deer very much 565 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: personality driven, and an aggressive deer you can do so 566 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: many different things with them, compared to these very very 567 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: timid deer, people who have captive deers. You know. See 568 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: some deer are aggressive breeding here. Other never make a 569 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: move towards it. Doubt they just don't want any part 570 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,719 Speaker 1: of the fight. They don't want any part. And they 571 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: could be very very big six seven eight year old 572 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 1: box weighing two forty pounds, and they still don't choose 573 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,439 Speaker 1: to try to breed because they don't want to fight. 574 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: They don't want to hassle. And we know dear that 575 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: are big travelers and they do a lot of walking, 576 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: and others who I'm not sure they came over acres 577 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: in a in a day if that. And a lot 578 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: of the telemetry studies that are coming back now are 579 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,399 Speaker 1: helping us understand individual dear behavior patterns and how they are. 580 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: But unquestionably there certain deer just love to tear up 581 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: trees and love to you know, make scrapes and be 582 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: the boss of the whole half side of the hill. 583 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: And others are very secret of sulking around and you 584 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: gotta hunt them differently. I read a little bit in 585 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: your buck about your your uth of trail cameras. Can 586 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: you ab rate? I'm a huge fan of trail cameras. 587 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: For me, the first card pull of the year is 588 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,760 Speaker 1: probably the most exciting, just up there with like finding 589 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,439 Speaker 1: a big shed or uh, you know, actually killing a deer. 590 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: Could you tell us your strategy about how you use 591 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: trail cameras well? Sure, we we've been using them a 592 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: long time. We started with the primitive ones that go 593 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: off and the deer jumped five ft in the air 594 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: because of the shuttered noise and flashes and stuff. I mean, 595 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: old Harry Jasubson I think, was the first one to 596 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: bring those out. But we've been using them a long time, 597 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,439 Speaker 1: and the whole culture of trail cameras, I think that's 598 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: become It's really one of the three biggest inventions I 599 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,919 Speaker 1: think in the last century in the hunting industry. Telescopic 600 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: site and that or not, but any compound bow and 601 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: I think trail cameras really is about third in the 602 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: rank order are important, and it's changing everybody. So we've 603 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 1: gone from basically the beauty contest, where everybody was taking 604 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: pictures of deer and you bring them in and you know, 605 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: you'd run to Walmart and get your film developed, and 606 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: then that night at dinner you'll be passing them around. 607 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 1: And there was a beauty contest. We're just looking for 608 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: a big deer and big big antler deer, something too. 609 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: More of an understanding now and basically if there's the 610 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: cameras are so good now, they're so fast. You can 611 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: see behaviors, you can see the videos, you can see 612 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 1: what they're doing, and you begin to understand the personalities 613 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: a lot. You can see personality on film if you 614 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: know what you're looking for. Aggressive buck looks a certain way, 615 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: stand a certain way, cat um. You know, if you've 616 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: seen all the time, you see the other bucks out, 617 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: leave the picture frame and get out of the area. 618 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: When the buck comes to the camera, you know, so 619 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: you can learn about their personality, about how they photograph, 620 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: what they look like on camera. You can also learn 621 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: their territory and how they moved because basically, you know, 622 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: we'll catch a buck shooter buck on camera, and we 623 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: catch him twice, so he said, okay, there there's a 624 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 1: data point to data points. He's here two different times, 625 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: and he's right now. He's nocturnal, and basically though, let's 626 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 1: see where he hangs out. So we'll move a few 627 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: cameras into that general area where we think and you know, 628 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,479 Speaker 1: so now he's on two cameras, but not on a third, 629 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: so we'll pull that third and shift it over to 630 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: the other side of the original camera, you know, eight 631 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 1: yards or something that caught him there. Eventually, you can 632 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: very often put a pattern together if you're tracking a steer, 633 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,359 Speaker 1: if you have a half dozen cameras and look at 634 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: the time he shows up, where he shows up, and 635 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: you can get a feel for how he moves across 636 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: that property. Uh Neil kill a very special buck a 637 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 1: few years ago. We call him Traveler because he moved 638 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: a lot, and our neighbors actually caught him on camera. 639 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: But traveler um Nea watched his deer on camera for 640 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: about fifty some days before he ever hunted him. Because 641 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: he only moved at night, we never caught him in 642 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: the daylight on camera. And then all of a sudden, 643 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: you know, we got into the rout and now we 644 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: caught this deer on camera two different times. Once he 645 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: actually bred a dough on camera. That was time to 646 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: make your move. So we we understood that buck was 647 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: a total nocturnal buck, and the last thing we would 648 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:34,879 Speaker 1: do is make a move on that deer at night. 649 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: I'm sorry that only moved at night, because you know 650 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 1: that would be the end of him in that area 651 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: if he cuts your set. A couple of times when 652 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: you went in and hunting, we knew where he liked 653 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: to be, We knew what he'd like to hang out, 654 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: but we knew he did all his hanging out at night. 655 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: So you can pick up a lot of dear behavior 656 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: on cameras by triangulation using two, three, four, five cameras, 657 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,919 Speaker 1: moving them around, and if you're lucky enough to get 658 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: these cameras now where you can get them, come in 659 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 1: on cell phone coverage. You don't have to be pulling 660 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 1: film all the time and stinking up the woods when 661 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: you're running into these cameras, So you can do a 662 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: lot with them as long as you're looking to understand 663 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: your behavior and get out of the beauty contest mode 664 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: that you're what you're looking to see a beautiful black 665 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: that's great, but you can learn so much more. Yeah, No, 666 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: they've totally changed the game, that's for sure. So two 667 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: more questions on that topic. I'm curious how often are 668 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,439 Speaker 1: you checking your trail cameras because you've mentioned the fact 669 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: that you're using some of those observations to make hunting decisions, 670 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: So I'm curious how often you're checking them. And then 671 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,440 Speaker 1: I'm curious where are you placing these cameras. Is it 672 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: just on field edges or are you going on trails 673 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: or back towards betting areas? Um, you know, what's your 674 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: strategy when it comes to location, Well, we we start 675 00:39:54,600 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 1: typically on feeding locations at socialization areas. M You know, 676 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: the socialization is a combination of food and staging areas 677 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: where they tend to you know, commingle and uh basically 678 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,479 Speaker 1: from there, Uh, that helps us get a good feel 679 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: for for what's going on and when it's going on 680 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: and who's around. So I would say early in the season, 681 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: and I'm saying, we're on our own property here five 682 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 1: acres and we run about a dozen cameras about them. 683 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,360 Speaker 1: Are on food sources because we over the years created 684 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: a lot of open food plot type food sources, and 685 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,720 Speaker 1: that's where they spend their time, especially in the evenings, 686 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,720 Speaker 1: So that gives us an idea of who's here that's 687 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: taking the inventory, putting together you shoot shooter list, and 688 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: then as um we anticipate the movement to start to 689 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: set in where they're gonna move and travel more. In 690 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: a pre running situation, when they get walking around these 691 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: bucks to do more than food fee they go looking. 692 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: We'll shift a lot of them to ridges and known 693 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: travel corridors where these bucks are tend to move through 694 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 1: and as they are searching and seeking out dos, so 695 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 1: we we shift some of them then off of food 696 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 1: sources and get them more into woods environments, ridge environments 697 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 1: in places like that, because frankly, that guy isn't going 698 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,760 Speaker 1: to spend the year after to kill that older deer 699 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 1: is not going to be spending a lot of fall 700 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,760 Speaker 1: time on food plots. He'll spend it in the early season, 701 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: in the summer where he's eating heavy, but as soon 702 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: as his his focus shifts from fattening up to breeding, 703 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: he's going to get out and he's going to move 704 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: through those food plots maybe never even touched him because 705 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: by then the pressures building, the neighborhood pressures building, the 706 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: traffic on the back roads has build. I think he's aware, 707 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: he's five years old. He knows there's stuff going on, 708 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,359 Speaker 1: so he's going to spend less and less time out 709 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 1: there posing in the open. So we've got a lot 710 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,760 Speaker 1: of our cameras by then back off of food plots 711 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: on areas where he we have a very good feel 712 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: he might want to cross, and we're just gonna see 713 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 1: as he going this way or that way, is he 714 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: using this ridge or that ridge? That kind of uh scouting, 715 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 1: And we check him about once a week, and then 716 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,280 Speaker 1: it would be definitely a kind of a midday check. 717 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: Hopefully we won't bump into him, but we know from 718 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: using cameras that those deer will will know you were 719 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: there and touch your tracks twelve sixteen hours after you've 720 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,719 Speaker 1: walked into woods. They're gonna they know they've come across you. 721 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 1: So the the telephone cell phone cameras are terrific that 722 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,280 Speaker 1: I have another And as far as you know, as hunters, 723 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: we have to be able to learn from our mistakes 724 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: and uh and then make our next move based on 725 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,160 Speaker 1: failure over the years. And I take it you've been 726 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: hunting a long time. How many are what would you 727 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:22,360 Speaker 1: say is the biggest educational moment in your hunting career? Wow? 728 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: I think I think that's a great question and the 729 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 1: biggest educational it's been an era. It's really h My 730 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,279 Speaker 1: son is at such a level of mastery of perfect pitch. 731 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: For dear, it's just the time I spend with Neil 732 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,319 Speaker 1: and how he understands how what do you're doing? Why 733 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,320 Speaker 1: they do it? And I'll never get to the level. 734 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: But just to give you the real direct answer, I 735 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,439 Speaker 1: was I was fourteen years old and and I an 736 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,839 Speaker 1: eight pointer if you can believe that in Pennsylvania was 737 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,839 Speaker 1: working his way to me with a dough and I 738 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: I've been reading and uh, like so many young people, 739 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,319 Speaker 1: all of my education had come from reading Lenny Roux 740 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 1: and other books about hunting and how to kill deer 741 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,480 Speaker 1: and Lawrence Caller's great classic book, Shots at White Tails, 742 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 1: and somehow got into my head that even if a 743 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,120 Speaker 1: leaf touched my bullet between me and that deer, I 744 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: wouldn't hit him. And actually I just overweighted on this 745 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,840 Speaker 1: beautiful buck to come in at fourteen yards and something 746 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: he went, he turned it inside it out, and I 747 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 1: missed him. And if if you just have to answer 748 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 1: that question honestly, which I'm trying to do, I learned 749 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 1: at that moment that if you've got your shot and 750 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,360 Speaker 1: it's a good shot, you better get on that trigger 751 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,200 Speaker 1: and shoot him or you're gonna lose that animal. So 752 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: that's not a very good answer, but it is an 753 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 1: honest answer. And I've always been a pretty quick shooter 754 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,320 Speaker 1: ever since. I don't over I don't over measure. I 755 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: tend to shoot. I've I've learned that less in the 756 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 1: hard way before. Okay, well good, that's too. Kind of 757 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,920 Speaker 1: the same thing that certainly applies for the bow. If 758 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 1: you've got that standing shot, Oh, if you tend to 759 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 1: wait for a better one, you you might you know, 760 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,400 Speaker 1: wait to what broke the wagon. You may not get 761 00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't come up very well in an interview, but frankly, 762 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:37,480 Speaker 1: it's an honest answer. Yeah, it's a good answer, very true. Well, 763 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: one more question than before we wrap things up here, 764 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 1: as we're getting close on time. But towards the end 765 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,000 Speaker 1: of your book, Craig, you described seven habits of highly 766 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 1: effective deer hunters, and I thought that was pretty interesting 767 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 1: and I was curious if you could share maybe a 768 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,279 Speaker 1: couple to three of those habits and elaborate a bit 769 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:58,160 Speaker 1: on them for us. Okay, well, I I think if 770 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:05,280 Speaker 1: I could remember them pretty accurately, I guess, I guess. Uh. 771 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 1: You know, a highly successful deer hunter is gonna be 772 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,680 Speaker 1: like a highly successful anything. And I've known a lot 773 00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,439 Speaker 1: of them. Let me let me put this a hunted 774 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,000 Speaker 1: with some of the best hunters in our country and 775 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,799 Speaker 1: the real power names of deer hunting and some real 776 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,479 Speaker 1: nonpower names of deer hunters who were darned good too, 777 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:28,440 Speaker 1: and they're always in control of the situation. Um they 778 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: they go into a hunt. Some of these are what 779 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: I call suitcase hunters. They travel lots of different places, 780 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,239 Speaker 1: see lots of different things, and frankly, a lot of 781 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,239 Speaker 1: them are camera hunters. And they have a week to 782 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,319 Speaker 1: get something done, and they have to get it done, 783 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: and they're gonna make them move real quick. They're gonna 784 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,680 Speaker 1: have to learn what's going on very quickly. And if 785 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,399 Speaker 1: they if somebody's hosting them, are guiding them, these these 786 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,759 Speaker 1: are these very successful guys will take control of the 787 00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 1: situation within a day or two and change change tactics, 788 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,279 Speaker 1: change what they're doing. But they're in control. They're not. 789 00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:09,200 Speaker 1: They they don't just take what the woods deals them. 790 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,840 Speaker 1: They're gonna try to basically put things in their favor 791 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 1: or stack the deck in their favor. Um, some most 792 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,160 Speaker 1: successful hunters I know are either gonna, you know, find 793 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,360 Speaker 1: you the place to go, or they're going to basically, 794 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: you know, hunt under good conditions, or they're gonna modify 795 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:33,239 Speaker 1: some habitat, or they're gonna become the smartest guy you 796 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,720 Speaker 1: know in the in the dear neighborhood or something to 797 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,080 Speaker 1: put the odds in their in their favor. And it's 798 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 1: just like anyone in business or any anything else. Um, 799 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,040 Speaker 1: successful hunter is gonna understand dear and he's gonna understand 800 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: he or she's gonna understand how Land and Dear interact. 801 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:58,279 Speaker 1: Um that's huge, and they do. It's just you know, 802 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,520 Speaker 1: some guys are are lucky and uh but it's really 803 00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,520 Speaker 1: not a lucky thing. It's a it's a knowledge thing. 804 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: And again I forget was a Lombardy where you know, 805 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,399 Speaker 1: preparation and luck come together you have success. These guys 806 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:20,319 Speaker 1: prepare and these people make a plan. A successful hunter 807 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: will make a plan. For sure. He was not just 808 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,839 Speaker 1: willy nearly walk out there and sit down and hope. Uh. 809 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,279 Speaker 1: He'll have a reason for where he goes and why 810 00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,280 Speaker 1: he went there. He'll have a strategy in mind, and 811 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,520 Speaker 1: when it's time, he'll make his move. I have to 812 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 1: say my son Neil is a Bilassic an example of that. 813 00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,840 Speaker 1: He'll he'll watch a deer with camera, with whatever it 814 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 1: takes normally camera because of the night thing that he 815 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,760 Speaker 1: won't move on a nocturnal deer. But when that deer 816 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,600 Speaker 1: shows himself in the day and all of a sudden 817 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,400 Speaker 1: he becomes a target, he will. He'll pounce on that situation. 818 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:02,320 Speaker 1: And uh so, so a successful guy makes his move 819 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,160 Speaker 1: when the time is right, maybe like a great boxer 820 00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:07,920 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden he hit you with that 821 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,120 Speaker 1: right hook or right crossed and down here go. And 822 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:15,759 Speaker 1: that's another characteristic. I see a good hunters. They they 823 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:20,040 Speaker 1: wait and then they pounch when to try. That's awesome. 824 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,279 Speaker 1: I I think those all hit home. They hit right 825 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,000 Speaker 1: at home. Given all the different things we've already talked 826 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:27,640 Speaker 1: about today and a lot of the other things we've 827 00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,120 Speaker 1: talked over the past couple episodes here on the word 828 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,640 Speaker 1: Hunt podcast, UM, I think that's probably a perfect place 829 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,520 Speaker 1: for us to wrap things up here today to UM. Now, 830 00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:38,920 Speaker 1: you know, as we mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, 831 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,360 Speaker 1: the book we've been discussing in the book that houses 832 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 1: these um the seven habits that you were just talking about, 833 00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,440 Speaker 1: is White Tails from Ground a Gun, and that's now 834 00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 1: also available as an e book on Amazon for believe, 835 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,920 Speaker 1: and as I understand it, you're also offering a special 836 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,800 Speaker 1: bonus to anyone who buys an e book this week. Craig, 837 00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 1: can you share this a little bit more about what 838 00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,719 Speaker 1: that bonus is and how people can get that. Yeah, Well, 839 00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 1: we we basically put together I the best of the 840 00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,360 Speaker 1: best of North Country white Tails. As you mentioned, we 841 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,040 Speaker 1: wrote an earlier book, Growing Right, which is kind of 842 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:16,040 Speaker 1: a bible of property management, and we went back and 843 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,080 Speaker 1: looked at all of our speeches and stuff over the 844 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 1: last ten years or and captured a lot of what 845 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:27,480 Speaker 1: just all in pearls of wisdom and put them all 846 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:32,239 Speaker 1: together in one e book and we uh you know, 847 00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,480 Speaker 1: commented about them. Why we said what we said, why 848 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 1: it is that? And we put it together in a 849 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:43,440 Speaker 1: in a short, to the point collection of uh smart 850 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,359 Speaker 1: things that we may have said over the last twenty 851 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,239 Speaker 1: years that can help out a landowner, a deer hunter. 852 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,600 Speaker 1: And we said, well, we'll put it out there this 853 00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,279 Speaker 1: week only we'll send you a PDF of it and 854 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,760 Speaker 1: you'll have a good time going through it and talking 855 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:03,279 Speaker 1: about these various uh pearls from the guys from the 856 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,480 Speaker 1: country white tails. Awesome. That sounds great. And if I 857 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:11,120 Speaker 1: remember correctly right, if they purchased the book, they just 858 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,040 Speaker 1: need to send you, guys an email with that receipt 859 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,560 Speaker 1: and then you'll send back the PDF. So that's right, 860 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,600 Speaker 1: sending out a couple today and just turn it right 861 00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,120 Speaker 1: around and shoot it too, and you'll be reading within 862 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,239 Speaker 1: ten seconds. Great. So I'll make sure to mention all 863 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,360 Speaker 1: that in the show notes um here on the podcast 864 00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,239 Speaker 1: as well, so that if anyone's looking for the links 865 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,120 Speaker 1: for that information, we'll have it there. Um that said 866 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,200 Speaker 1: Craig I think that's gonna wrap it up for here, 867 00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:37,800 Speaker 1: for us here today, I just wanted to thank you 868 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,920 Speaker 1: so much. I know that me and Dan enjoy this 869 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,239 Speaker 1: and I think we've all learned a lot, so thank you. Yes, 870 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,600 Speaker 1: I was my pleasure too, and I'm sorry if your 871 00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,640 Speaker 1: listeners how to hear radar of the tracking dogs barking 872 00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,000 Speaker 1: at one of my chickens out in the backyard, That's 873 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,680 Speaker 1: what that was all about. It wasn't a gear coming through. 874 00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,239 Speaker 1: Was one of our chickens, Scott loose. He's gonna go 875 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:04,279 Speaker 1: out and just put him in his place like you 876 00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,479 Speaker 1: as well. Thanks anytime, anytime, Hite and help you happy 877 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,080 Speaker 1: to do it. Thank you very much, all right bye, 878 00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,719 Speaker 1: all right, well, thank you so much to everyone out 879 00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,120 Speaker 1: there listening today. We're thrilled you could join us, and 880 00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,560 Speaker 1: hopefully you found our conversation with Craig as helpful as 881 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,520 Speaker 1: we did. Now, if you enjoy the show today, we 882 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,160 Speaker 1: would love it if you'd leave a rating review on iTunes. 883 00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,680 Speaker 1: It takes just a quick second and it helps a ton, 884 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,319 Speaker 1: so thanks in advance for that. We'd also, of course 885 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,640 Speaker 1: like to thank our partners who helped make this show possible. 886 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,000 Speaker 1: Big thanks. To sick Gear, bush All Optics, Trophy Ridge 887 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,160 Speaker 1: bar Archery, Redneck Blinds, Carbon Express Arrows, Lacrosse Boots, Big 888 00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,000 Speaker 1: and J long Range Attractants, and the White Tail Institute 889 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,040 Speaker 1: of North America. That said, be sure to visit wired 890 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,840 Speaker 1: to Hunt dot com slash episode nine to view the 891 00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,359 Speaker 1: show notes from today's episode. That's where will include all 892 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:51,759 Speaker 1: the links you need to pick up a copy of 893 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,360 Speaker 1: Craig's book and get more information on the other interesting 894 00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,320 Speaker 1: things he's got going on. Also, if you're new, please 895 00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,200 Speaker 1: head over to wired hunt dot com to sign up 896 00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,440 Speaker 1: for our white Tail Fixed newsletter to get updates on 897 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,439 Speaker 1: what's new and interesting on the blog. That said, thanks again, 898 00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,160 Speaker 1: Weird Hunt Nation. Until next time you have a great week. 899 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:08,520 Speaker 1: Let's stay weird to Hunt.