WEBVTT - Ep. 291: Hiding from Bulls 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.760 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.680 severely bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:23.360 You can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.920 versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:37.040 for every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer, All right, 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.559 Jason felt, before we get into elk hunt and all that, 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:46.760 explain to everyone the line one turkey call. We gotta 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:48.560 think of it like it's gonna be the line one, 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.720 but like maybe like the we'll think of some other 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.600 things to add on to the name. But the concept 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.120 of the line one turkey call. So this is your 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:59.280 baby that you brought to me. And at first I'm like, 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.080 why is it doesn't matter? Why does anybody care where 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.240 your turkey call comes from? Right, it's just another turkey call. 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:07.319 But Steve had this idea he brought to me. He 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.720 thought it would be cool to go out to a 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:16.760 property and harvest the tree that the turkey call was 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.520 ultimately made out of. But more so than just doing that, 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.000 it was a document the process of us cutting the 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.520 green tree off of the stump, us, taking it to 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.320 the mill, us, then taking it to the kiln um, 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.800 getting it dried out, and then turning that um specific 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:34.960 tree into a specific set of calls. So um, I 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.240 am a believer. Now. The more we talked about this 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.360 and I've seen that, I am. Yeah. It was a 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.400 pretty good idea, Steve. I'll give you that. At first, 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.040 I didn't like your idea. Oh you actively didn't like it. 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:47.720 I didn't. I just didn't think it was worth it 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.480 the effort to like build. But then the more we worked, 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.320 I'm seeing why this is such a cool project. Well, 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.200 I shouldn't have doubted you. Yeah, Jason found a guy, 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.000 a friend of his, who had it wasn't even by 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.480 walnut black walnut standards, a huge black walnut. No, but 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:08.280 the fellers we were talking with over there estimate that 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:12.560 there's a thousand turkey calls hiding that black walnut tree. Yep, yeah, 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:14.640 pretty straight and not all the limbs in that that 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.200 bottom twenty feet. So we'll get a good yield out 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:19.840 of that that tree that we found. So, um, what 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:21.840 was it shortly after the fourth of July? Me and 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.480 you jigger season? Yeah? Do I know that? I know 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:28.880 the chiggers and ticks were alive, very alive in Kansas. Uh, 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.519 flew to Kansas something my good buddies property there and 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:37.000 Steve cut down probably a sixty seventy ft walnut, and 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:38.960 I cut down an O s Age orange or our 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:41.640 ultimate plan. And we're only building as many calls as 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.000 we can get out of these two trees or combos 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:45.560 that we can get out of these two trees. Yeah, 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:47.840 and we feed as shy as the tree. Yeah, with 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:51.079 a drone, it's like you really get intimate with the tree. 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:52.840 Oh yeah, you watch it. You watched like a huge 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:56.239 canopy and then this tree just falls out of It's pretty. Um, 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.840 so we're gonna we're gonna offer a pop call. We 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:03.480 don't know exactly what playing surface yet. Um, we're still 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:05.400 kind of going through that process, but we do have. 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.440 We cut down a Sage orange hedge also known as 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.960 what was the third but man, it's got it's like 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:15.399 it's like a bourbon. It's got like five millions. Yeah, 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.600 So basically most people know it as a hedge or 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:22.799 an O s Age orange burdock it's but it's better 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.000 known as O Sage orange in the coal making world. 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.240 So we're gonna do a one piece O Sage striker 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.480 and paired up with the black bowl up pot and 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.400 it's gonna be very very limited um in the run. 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:34.840 But then we haven't figured out the legal on this. 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.760 But well, okay, so it's called the line one turkey call, 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:45.080 and they'll be numbered sequentially, um like when you buy 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.800 a print seth and what I'm talking about because his 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.360 wife to be is a cells prints the paintings k 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:56.120 Ray John's. That's right on Instagram. No one's gonna know 0:03:56.120 --> 0:04:00.760 how to spell that. Just search Kelsey Johnson Kelsey Johnson Instagram. 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.000 You see her wildlifefire. She sells prints that are numbered 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.320 numbered turkey calls. Now we already had an offer him. 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.640 I right, we did. Yep. Someone's trying to pre empt 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.640 and buy the number one line one call. But we 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:16.880 might use the number one line one call for our 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:20.640 land Access initiative. Maybe I like that idea and auction 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.240 ad off and use that as a as a fundraiser 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:27.400 to do access enhancement projects with the rest will sell, 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.000 but we want to try to figure out some legal way, 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.320 Like with all them ping pong balls, you a ping 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:38.400 pong ball bubbler yep, that that are like numbered one 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:43.000 through thousand and then pull a ping pong ball out 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.039 and if that's your number of your call, you get 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.520 to go hunt and sit on that stump and call 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:51.880 turkeys from that stump. Yep. And I think that you 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:53.520 would probably be able to kill a turkey from that 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:55.920 stone exactly well from the black wall in no stags. 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:57.480 We could. I killed my turkey this year a half 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:59.599 a mile from it. So the property is great, And 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:01.520 that was kind of we didn't kind of get to 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.159 the whole idea and we'd go hunting with you. Yeah, 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.080 me and Steve will be on that hunt, calling, doing 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:08.720 whatever we need to do for you on that hunt. 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.880 But the idea was this, you know, tree a turkey 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:13.880 line one is that you would then go back use 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.599 that same call on that property to kill the turkey 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:18.760 on that stone. Yeah, on that stump. Me are close 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.800 to that? No, nope, on the stone. The first set 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:26.440 up on the stuff, The first setup is on the stump, 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.920 and then whatever happens happen. But it starts out on 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:31.440 the stone. Okay, I could I could buy into that. 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:33.560 So where's the wood at now? We went? So we 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.039 we cut the tree down on Jason's friends place. Do 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.240 you want to say his names? Yeah? Randy. I don't 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:40.719 think you'd have a problem Randy Milligan's place there in Kansas. 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:45.800 Um took it to a took it to Walnut, Kansas. Yep, 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:50.440 these black walnut experts. Then they milled it. Yep. I 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.080 got chickers real bad while they did it. I helped. 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:59.000 And then they're gonna pallet. They're gonna pallet the piece, 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.640 the usable pieces. Yeah, they're shipping them to you. Yep. 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.599 So as of today, nine thirteen, they're they're all bundled up, 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.960 I believe, on two palettes. Um, we've got a trucker 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.680 picking him up sometime this week and they're gonna be 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.440 heading to Spokene, Washington too, sitting to kill him. And 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.400 you're gonna film that, hope. Yes, yes, it's very logistically 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:21.800 tough right now, but we will get this man. Just 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.200 someone at the places needs to get their phone out 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.160 and show that what it looks like. Yeah, exactly, will 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:29.480 be easy. Yeah, so you'll have a whole movie. Like 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:31.160 sometimes you buy a turkey calling, it comes with a 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.280 little piece of paper, this one comes with a movie. 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.120 We'll have a little QR code on the back where 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:37.800 if you want to watch where this turkey call came 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:41.039 from Click on it. You get to meet all the trees. Yeah, 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:45.400 it's gonna be solid. Uh, so stay tuned on that. 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.920 That's gonna be all done when we're hoping, I mean 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.040 we need to have them ready by January or sometimes 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.320 I mean they've got it, but I think we're we're 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:54.360 still on pace. I just don't want to eat up 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:56.720 all of our float time in the process. So the 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.800 quicker we can get it through the kiln about sixty days. Um, 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.280 we can get those machine out and stay tuned at 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:04.880 the at the yet to be launched house auction house 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:10.160 of Oodities where we raised money for access enhancement projects 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:16.480 because we've already had a generous generous offer for the 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:22.160 number one line one call. Uh, this podcast made a baby? 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.800 Do you guys hear about this? Here? About what? How 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:32.240 this podcast made a baby? Did you hear what I said? This? 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:34.800 Jester heard about it? Dirt you hear about it? Nope, 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:41.560 I'm curious. Don't hear about it, Sam Jason at all? 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:48.080 Now I'm really cars Oh that's great. So this guy 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.160 rode in saying he was always kind of a half asked. First, 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.440 he wrote in saying that the podcast made a baby. 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.000 Then he says that he's not accusing us of breaking 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:01.360 the sixth Commandment, so he's gonna give us the backstory. 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.840 He said he was always a half fast Minnesota hunter, 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:08.800 but in recent years he's gotten way more serious about it. 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:15.760 His wife, it used to be a vegetarian, Um has 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:20.760 taken to pastoring him about being ready to start a family, 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.920 and he was reticent. He took her out turkey hunting, 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:31.600 called into turkey. She shot of Tom ran over there 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:33.400 so fast. She kind of like, he said, she could 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:35.200 have punted the hen that was with the time she 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:42.920 got there so quick. This got him, this, This inspired 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:47.840 in him, This inspired in him, uh an appetite for reproduction. 0:08:52.920 --> 0:09:00.200 They formed a baby that night. Weeks later, he was 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:04.960 cooking schnitzel with the turkey, and she said, do you 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.839 need the oven? You should probably check in there before 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.880 turning it on as he's making dinner. So he opened 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.320 the oven and there was a single bun placed in 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:21.040 the oven. That's cute. So there's that um on the 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.920 dock debate. So we've been talking a lot lately about 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.920 this whole like fish and joyces dock thing, like people 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:32.600 rigging up their docks. So that they like spray fisherman 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.760 if you get near it, and like they hook up 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.360 hoses and stuff to like spook fish and spray fisherman. 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.319 And then some guy was like, that's not what it is. 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:45.480 It's meant to keep ducks and geese. And then a 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.480 bunch of people rolling like that's definitely what it is. 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.760 And they sent us this footage of like you'd come 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.120 this guy that when you go by his dock in Florida, 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:57.640 he comes out and bangs the dock with a broomstick 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.720 and turns his boat motors on to churn up the 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.600 water her because he doesn't anyone want fishing by his dock. 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:06.800 And this woman who would always be real mean, that 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:08.680 a woman named Joyce would be real mean to people 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.000 who are fishing. And they started a Facebook. They started 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.360 a day on Facebook a group called fish Joyce's Dock, 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.240 and they coordinated a day when everyone could go fish 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:23.920 Joyce's Dock together. A listener wrote in to say that 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.880 he's looking at statute three seven nine point one oh 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:31.760 five of the Florida state statutes. In many states have 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:33.920 these all point out this is Florida. That's a number 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:38.760 for Florida's prohibits the harassment of hunters, trappers, and anglers. 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.120 Violations of this statute are subject to a five dollar 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:47.920 fine and up to sixty days in prison. And it 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:54.360 goes on to talk about in on any public lands. Okay, 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:56.880 so a person may not this is Florida's law. A 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:02.240 person may not intentionally, within or on any public lands 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:07.880 or publicly or privately owned wildlife management and fish management areas, 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:14.200 or in or on any public waters, interfere with, or 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:18.160 attempt to prevent the lawful taking of fish, game, or 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:23.240 non game animals by another within or on such lands 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:31.760 or areas, or in or on such waters, attempt to 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:37.280 disturb fish, game, or non game animals, or attempt to 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:41.439 affect their behavior with the intent to prevent their lawful 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:46.000 taking by another within or on such lands or areas, 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:51.040 or in or on such waters. Goes on to say, 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.280 the guy revving the boat and banging on the dock 0:11:53.480 --> 0:12:01.320 is such a clear violation of this law. It's ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.840 maybe sixty days in prison will change his mind. Can 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:11.240 imagine in uh, Norm McDonald's me doing stand up. He 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.880 has a big thing about when, uh, when how O 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:20.200 J like got off for killing his um, his wife 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:25.520 and in in that waiter ron what's his name Goldman? Yeah, 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.679 but then later he got in trouble for stealing sport, 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.760 his own sports memor bilia. You know what this whole thing, 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.640 you know O J with the jail, right O J? 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:42.079 Like when like he killed his wife and the waiter 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:47.480 and then you know, viciously stabbed him to death. Was acquitted. 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:49.680 What year was all this? You guys are so some 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:51.240 of you guys are so young, it like it blows 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.200 my mind. Remember sitting in the bar with Eric Kern 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.280 watching O J drive around the Bronco, the white Bronco. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:01.920 I don't know if we're in there legally, but I 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.400 feel like I was probably in there legally. Eight years old. 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.200 I was at the bar called bone Nikki's watching the 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:13.160 Juice drive around in that white Bronco and you were 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.439 like it sounds like a good time, and you were 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.679 in a baby carriage or something. It wasn't baby carriage right, 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:21.280 So like I was at the point I was young 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:24.880 enough wher I didn't he began to care about it. 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:27.320 I imagine that. I always say, yeah, I could be 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:33.680 your daddy, could be beginning after Yeah, but like physical 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:35.600 that I could be his daddy. I have to check 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.959 the dates. I mean close. So point just a brief 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.600 history lesson seth. There's a guy named O. J. Simpsons. 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.200 I know the general wrote down, but I don't know 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:52.440 the details. He got He got away. He literally got 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.280 away with murder. Yeah, I understand that went on to 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.040 even write a book called If I Did It. I 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.679 didn't didn't read the book. I didn't. I haven't read 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.800 the book, but but it was the thing um Later 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:08.400 he went in. He was trying to reclaim some sports 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.760 memory abilia that some sports memorabilia guys were dealing, and 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.760 he felt that it had gotten away from him in 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.040 some way that shouldn't have been or they didn't have 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:21.040 legitimate claim to the memorabilia or whatever. He hires a 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.600 couple of heavies and they come into a hotel room 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.600 and they got a gun and they say, don't know 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:33.520 one move and steal the sports memorabilia back by saying 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:37.920 with a gun, don't know one move. They got kidnapping charges, 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:45.440 and the judge that sentenced the Jews to prison built 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:51.120 all the symbolic things into it, like restitution was you know, 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:56.080 for I can't remember all these symbolic gestures. She sentenced 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.360 him on the anniversary of the murders or some such 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:02.200 and like in like, I am sending you to jail 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:07.640 for killing your wife basically, but I'm just using this 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.680 as a sort of proxy to get to give you 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.160 what you deserve, and like had like a fine that 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.640 had something to do with the restitution to the family 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.840 that he never paid from the civil trial. Okay, But 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.800 then Norm McDonald the comedian and me doing stand up. 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.480 Norm McDonald has I'm I'm getting the background to Joyce's 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:33.000 doc in Norm McDonald's thing need to In stand up, 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.800 he has a bit where the juice goes to jail 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:40.800 for stealing sports memorabilias, and he's talking about the hierarchy 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.920 in jail about like what you're in for, like the 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.480 severity of the crime sort of places you higher in 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:50.520 the hierarchy, and the juice being in there for stealing 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:57.520 um sports memorability would place some very low hierarchy. And 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.920 he would say, and he was imagining the juice being like, 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:04.400 but no, man, I killed two people savagely with a knife, 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.520 and the other prisoners being like, no, you didn't. We 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:14.040 saw that trial. It's a glove don't fit. So point being, 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:16.200 if you went to jail and you were in there 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:20.000 for um, banging a broomstick on your own dock, I 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.920 feel like you would be the bottom, the bottom of 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:27.320 the barrel in the prisoner hierarchy. Wait, so the dude 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.640 who was banging the broom his name was Joyce or 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:36.800 those two days that was another person? Yeah? Oh, but 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.280 then a dock owner wrote in, because we like we 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.080 try to be fair and balanced. Yeah, isn't it. Isn't 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.040 there another news organization that goes by that we try 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:49.960 to be fair and balanced journalistic. So in the spirit 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:55.960 of journalistic integrity, here's a dock owner's perspective. Guy named 0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:02.600 Tyler rode In. He as a cabin on a big, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.600 wide open lake and he likes to go and fish 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:11.720 off his dock for pike, croppy, walleye and bass, and 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.520 the kids like the fish out there. But what happens 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.600 is people will come by and want a troll off 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:23.200 the end of all the docks slower trolling, and he's 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.200 saying it puts him in an awkward position where there 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.480 will be five to ten minutes where he like can't 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:32.159 make a cast as the boat is cruising along the 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.720 front of his dock in order to like avoid confrontation. 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:37.840 And he said, sure, they bounced their cast and they 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.720 they hit his boat with their lures in order to 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:44.360 get good placement. They're bouncing off his dock, bouncing off 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.080 his boats. I can live with all that, But he goes, 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.920 I feel that if there's a fisherman standing on a dock, 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.480 why would boaters not give him a wide berth? Yeah, 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:59.639 he says. So it's like he can't put all the 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.880 blame one place because he has seen UM really sort 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:09.240 of like aggressively rude behavior from fisherman to another fisherman 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:11.880 who's a shore based fisherman on the end of a dock. Yeah, 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.159 so he said, it's it's something that everyone should be 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.480 mindful of the fisherman, like courtesy rule. I wanted to 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.720 write a book about that. I think it'd be great. 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:28.080 Um in this No, it's just like the rules of 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:31.280 I don't know, I don't know what I'll call it, 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:36.480 but just like English the rules, and it'll be like 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:38.919 just a small little book and what you can do 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.639 would be boat ramp etiquette, fishing etiquette, I mean like 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:48.440 rolling rolling down the Yellowstone River, I mean, there's been 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:52.280 so many times when you see a guide or a 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:58.159 recreational fisherman float right next to this guy with his 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.720 daughter drowning bobbers and or John and worms with bobbers, 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:03.840 you know, and it's like I always made it a point, 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.640 every made it a point to tell all my anglers 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.080 to reel up or cast the other side. We roll 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:18.600 out to the middle. Rollback keeps everyone happy, you know. 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:21.240 Long ago, like just the same way we've been covering 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.960 doc etiquette in Florida and Joyce and everything a long 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.320 time ago. We paid a lot, were covered in a 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.880 bunch of with a bunch of listener feedback, and tried 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.560 to refute covered and tried to refute this idea that 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.800 there's a sort of hunter hierarchy and like archery hunters 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.880 who are hunting deer acting really mad because they squirrel 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:47.359 hunter would um be so rude as to be out 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:52.760 in the woods during the rut? Yeah he should hang 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:57.000 it up, you know. Yeah. Yeah, And this is like 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:58.800 little rules like if you see a guy in a 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.680 tree stand while you're outse we're hunting, maybe don't walk 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:04.080 underneath him. You just kind of screw You don't need 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:05.679 to go back to your truck. You don't need to 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:07.600 hang up your gun for the year. But maybe, like 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:09.960 you know, yeah, no one needs to be throwing each 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:12.760 other's bird's just I mean, I'm on board with squirrel 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.399 hunting and being shut down during deer season. And is 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:19.160 that right? That's a controversial position you're taken. You can write. 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.880 Are you gonna write a little book about it? It'll 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:26.800 be a little bit bigger than Chester's book. But Chester, 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:28.920 I'd like to get the first ride of the first 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:33.119 ride of refusal on that on that book project. Okay, 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.239 I think I need to check his contract. I think 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:38.280 it could be a lengthy book. What can you do 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.800 a book like that you can go into like you know, 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.600 I mean it for myself, it has to be under 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:45.360 the meat brand. Yeah, I feel like i'd go ask 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.600 you pretty hard. But hey man, I'm not trying to 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:55.800 screw anyone over here. I'm not writing this contract. Etiquette 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.199 should be not a book. Yeah, you could just have 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.760 a whole little etiquette series. Yeah, I'd be illustrated by 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:10.360 Kelsey or something, you know, chest around etiquette. Um oh, 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:13.720 skunk oil. I was talking about my thing I'd like 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:15.840 to do, which is how I'm saving a ounce of 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.719 skunk oil. And I was gonna wait till I had 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:21.760 a vandett against someone and injected into the upholstery of 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:28.960 their car, just for the big syringes, so you'd never 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.119 you'd look and look and look, you could never find it. 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:36.359 I haven't done it, but oh recently, we have a guesthouse, 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:39.520 and there's a fridge. The's a dorm fridge in the 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:41.880 guesthouse where we keep like just you know, for when 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.320 people are staying out there. Yeah, exactly like that. But 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:49.560 I keep all my um diaphragm, calls, trapp and lure 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:58.000 um uh, spear gun bands, leeches, worms, I keep all 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.400 that in there and then just wait for my find 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.520 out what I argued out. But I had my skunk 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.720 essence in a bottle in a vacuum sealed bag, in 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:12.359 a vacuum sealed bag, and I didn't. I haven't got 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:15.199 my smell back since after I had COVID. I never 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:17.440 smelled it, but apparently it was getting pretty ripe in there. 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:22.160 And now I have a thumb tack to the outside 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:25.440 of my house. That's where I keep my skunk oil. 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:29.879 If you go to my garage door and look to 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:32.919 the left and stumb tack right there. You think you 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:35.800 can I can't smell it. You think you could go bad, 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:39.879 like in the heat and stuff. I mean, ain't any worse. 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:43.399 But the a guy wrote in it so and then 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:45.520 we talked about these dudes that did a skunk oil prank. Well, 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:47.080 here's another guy that wrote it in about doing a 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:52.680 skunk oil prank in Wyoming. They took a combination of 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:56.560 dough yearn and skunk scent and as a prank at 0:22:56.600 --> 0:23:00.600 their school. No helmet, he's not he didn't do this 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.560 these other kids. He's blaming these other kids on it. 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:07.680 These other kids went in and took doe year in 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:13.959 and skunk cent sprayed it all over to school. It 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:17.040 was so bad that some of the janitors in the 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:23.119 morning experienced nausea and vomiting. One reported loss of consciousness. 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:29.720 Holy shit. The incident was classified. The FBI got involved 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:33.200 because the incident was classified as a chemical weapon attack. 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:38.520 Oh God, a lot of trouble. One of the guys 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:45.120 lost a football scholarship that you dub Damn. They didn't 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:46.359 go to jail. They had to do a ton of 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:52.399 community service. No federal no federal time. Now that in 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:56.040 my mind would land you high on the prison high art. 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:03.080 Let me tell you what I did, Carmen van Biancy. 0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:06.200 We questioned like how to tell how to sex a beaver, 0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:12.240 how to tell what gender a beaver is without skinning it. 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:14.960 And Carmen van Bianci has been on the show three 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:18.879 or four times. She's a research biologists. She wrote in 0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:24.640 She's sex beavers every day. Those our morning routine. She said, 0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:27.879 beaver sexing used to be a nearly daily occurrence for 0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:30.439 me when I worked down the methout is how you 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:34.640 say that meth out? Yeah, methou Beaver project they would 0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:37.640 live trap. They would live trap problem beavers and move 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:40.879 them into high mountain streams to study the before and 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:45.399 after effects of beaver ponds to stream tempts and flow. 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:50.240 They would also use these problem beavers to restore channelized 0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:53.919 and degraded streams, which said the hard part when it 0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:57.760 goes to replacing to relocate in beavers because they don't 0:24:57.800 --> 0:25:00.600 stay put. But they would find that if you put 0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:03.560 a male and a female at a release site together, 0:25:04.040 --> 0:25:08.080 it would up the odds that those beavers would stay put. 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:11.639 Meaning it's it's looking for a mate. That's perhaps sending 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:15.200 them off into who knows where, So she says, hence 0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:20.119 sex and beavers every morning. She says, as you probably know, 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:23.800 tuxed tucked in next to the castor glands are the 0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:29.119 anal glands. Okay, by pal painting the cloaca at this 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:32.879 little uni hole, you can get the anal glands to 0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:38.920 evert popping out of the cloaca, and it's shaped sort 0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:43.720 of like a little empanada. That's either sex. You then 0:25:43.880 --> 0:25:48.080 squeeze and work that anal gland until you milk out 0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:54.119 a secretion. If you do that and you're okay, you 0:25:54.280 --> 0:25:58.760 pal paid it and you get a dark, thick secretion 0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:03.840 that smells like more to oil. That's a male. Do 0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:10.240 you get a thin secretion smells like old cheese female? 0:26:16.600 --> 0:26:18.600 She goes on to clarify, of course the beaver has 0:26:18.640 --> 0:26:23.679 to be restrained to do this. We designed a cone 0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:27.600 shaped canvas bag that we could put the beaver in 0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:30.840 nose first, and then wrapped tightly up like a burrito 0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:33.840 with their hind and sticking out. That's a different kind 0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:42.440 of party. You have panadas burritos. Uh. Some more information, 0:26:42.520 --> 0:26:45.960 really good information on the we're covering how deer all 0:26:46.000 --> 0:26:48.920 have COVID, not all, but like a lot of surprising 0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:53.439 number of deer have COVID. And we covered that story, 0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:58.280 and I was mentioning, like, how do they if you 0:26:58.320 --> 0:27:01.000 weren't checking for code it earlier because he didn't know 0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:05.760 it didn't exist, right, how do you know what they 0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:09.040 had before? You know what I mean? Like meaning, if 0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:11.480 you went out now and tested a bunch of deer 0:27:11.480 --> 0:27:16.040 and there's some marker that demonstrates COVID um but you 0:27:16.040 --> 0:27:17.639 don't have you can't compare it to anything. I just 0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:20.679 wondered about the likelihood of false positives or how does 0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:23.600 that actually work. I wasn't being incredulous. I was just 0:27:23.640 --> 0:27:26.960 being like, I don't know. It seems like a reasonable question. 0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:30.760 Halfle Finger can we cover every week? We should come 0:27:30.840 --> 0:27:34.119 up with the theme song, Like Phil should work up 0:27:34.160 --> 0:27:38.040 something from when we talk about something that Hefflefinger told us, 0:27:38.040 --> 0:27:42.560 like halfle Fingers Corner feels like CNN. They'd call it 0:27:42.600 --> 0:27:45.879 like the Hefflefinger Report checking checking a strum up a 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:48.239 couple of chords on the guitar. You gotta work that up, 0:27:48.320 --> 0:28:04.080 Chester Ale Finger have a finger? Oh you know, I 0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:05.960 don't know if we can say this yet I guess 0:28:06.000 --> 0:28:09.400 we can probably say it. So I want to tease 0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:12.600 another thing we've got going on for our Land Access Initiative. 0:28:13.119 --> 0:28:17.000 We have a very famous might I say, probably the 0:28:17.000 --> 0:28:21.879 the like the leading country singer today has donated a 0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:27.879 guitar is donating guitar that he has used at live 0:28:27.960 --> 0:28:36.760 performances to our Land Access Initiative fundraising mechanism which is 0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:40.520 called the Mediator auction House of Oddities. So we will 0:28:40.560 --> 0:28:44.520 be able to auction that guitar and that for an 0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:50.520 additional five thousand dollars. This is all just all goes 0:28:50.560 --> 0:28:52.960 to just like lands. So he's donating his time in 0:28:52.960 --> 0:28:55.520 the name of land Access for an additional five grand 0:28:55.600 --> 0:29:05.240 Chester will fly to your home in play song on 0:29:05.560 --> 0:29:11.800 that new guitar. Right Chester, he will visit your home 0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:14.880 and personally he's gonna be there for like ten minutes. 0:29:17.240 --> 0:29:19.920 He comes in, he'll engage in a very small amount 0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:25.320 of small talk. No, he comes in fresh from the airport. 0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:27.800 He will engage in a very small amount of small talk. 0:29:28.160 --> 0:29:29.600 You can have whoever you want to be there, be 0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:33.080 there at a set time. Just will come in, do 0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:36.120 the song, and the coyote says who you and then 0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:41.080 do the whole song and then he leaves. It sounds 0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:47.880 kind of weird. It's kind of creepy. You know. My 0:29:47.880 --> 0:29:50.080 buddy Matt, he was a salesman and he was to 0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:52.800 talk about putting on his little boat peep costume. Now 0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:54.640 now when he really needed to make a sale. Have 0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:56.480 to have to get that costume for Chester to wear 0:29:56.560 --> 0:30:01.840 when he comes and does that? Just uh oh so 0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:04.800 where was I? Yeah, a theme song for helfle Finger 0:30:04.800 --> 0:30:07.280 would be great, uh helf of Finger Road. And how 0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:12.360 this is true about the COVID thing. They they bank 0:30:13.360 --> 0:30:16.920 um serum. They bank samples from deer when they're doing 0:30:17.000 --> 0:30:19.000 other kind of deer research, probably just for this with 0:30:19.120 --> 0:30:21.040 this kind of thing of mine. So if you're like 0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:26.160 working up deer, you'll draw serums of blood and they 0:30:26.520 --> 0:30:31.800 bank vials of it, which is great thinking. So they 0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:36.880 were able to go in and look at samples. What 0:30:36.960 --> 0:30:39.240 they did they went and looked at serum samples out 0:30:39.240 --> 0:30:42.080 of their archive dating back to two thousand and eleven 0:30:44.160 --> 0:30:52.360 and analyze those samples for antibodies really nothing. So they 0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:54.440 looked at all these samples from two thousand eleven. They 0:30:54.520 --> 0:30:59.560 looked at one positive from nineteen used a separate test, 0:31:01.120 --> 0:31:05.200 and it appears that that was a false positive. Half 0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:07.480 of finger says, it's pretty halfly read. The whole damn 0:31:07.560 --> 0:31:09.800 thing was then into this big meeting and stuff about it. 0:31:11.280 --> 0:31:14.600 It's pretty clear that stars c o V two was 0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:19.640 not present in the deer heard before it goes on 0:31:19.760 --> 0:31:24.840 to say that, um, they can't find that no one 0:31:24.880 --> 0:31:28.800 has pointed to in any like any symptoms in the deer. 0:31:29.560 --> 0:31:34.400 What they're testing for is they're testing for antibodies produced 0:31:34.480 --> 0:31:38.640 in response to exposure six in this one study we 0:31:38.720 --> 0:31:40.720 were talking about. I think it was of the deer 0:31:40.800 --> 0:31:43.080 they checked in Michigan and it was over a hundred 0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:50.400 I think UH had been exposed. That's pretty wild. I 0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:52.400 think if you traced it, you might trace it back 0:31:52.480 --> 0:31:57.240 to Doug Durren's farm because of buck Man juice. With 0:31:57.400 --> 0:32:01.880 buck Man juice, there's something about Doug. No one understands 0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:04.840 what it is. If Doug p's on a bush, deer 0:32:06.240 --> 0:32:10.720 like flock to it. If Doug wants to see what's 0:32:10.760 --> 0:32:13.000 going on, he puts a trail cam up. It goes 0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:15.240 out in front of that trail canra urinates on a bush. 0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:22.840 Every deer, every deer in Richland County will come in 0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:27.640 to smell that buck man juice did he have? And 0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:29.800 my I got They these people want to get down 0:32:29.840 --> 0:32:32.920 to the bottom of this. They test Doug's urine and 0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:35.880 the bodies and then have to work up the genetics 0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:38.720 on it and see if that strain all these deer 0:32:38.840 --> 0:32:42.760 have all comes from Doug. Yeah, that gets, I mean 0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:45.560 that really gets. You're thinking, like, where are these deer 0:32:47.040 --> 0:32:51.640 got it from? Like Doug, it's someone who's real good 0:32:51.680 --> 0:32:53.239 at hunting. If he's getting that close to a lot 0:32:53.320 --> 0:32:58.040 of deer, well maybe maybe it's captive deer that you know. 0:32:59.520 --> 0:33:01.560 People people are like work. You know, someone who has 0:33:01.680 --> 0:33:03.880 COVID is in in the barn working on him or whatever, 0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:07.040 getting them shots, put him out to pasture. They end 0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:11.360 up nosing wild deer through the fence. I like it. 0:33:11.440 --> 0:33:13.320 Do you do? You know how many angry emails are 0:33:13.360 --> 0:33:17.480 being generated right now about what Seth just said. That's 0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:20.240 gonna be the latest target of the captive servant industry 0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:26.760 bringing on Duck's got to market his buck juice. That's yeah, 0:33:27.080 --> 0:33:31.480 that's extremely value. It's really something. He's even done things 0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:34.320 where he'll photograph a tree a bunch to show that 0:33:34.400 --> 0:33:36.240 nothing's there, and then he pees on the tree and 0:33:36.320 --> 0:33:39.640 everything shows he's got he's got like a like a 0:33:39.800 --> 0:33:42.560 b testing. He's like no one dear like this tree. 0:33:43.160 --> 0:33:47.440 Another item in the auction house of oddities. The thing 0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:53.720 of Buckman juice be a really good idea. Yeah, well 0:33:53.920 --> 0:33:57.320 to talk about man juice like a pot a pint 0:33:57.360 --> 0:34:01.760 of buck Man juice. Yeah, there might be simple. I 0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:04.640 was just on I was just on Minnesota brand. Uh. 0:34:04.720 --> 0:34:07.600 There's a I use Uh. I buy a trapping equipment 0:34:07.680 --> 0:34:11.840 from what's that place called like Minnesota, Minnesota trap Line Products. 0:34:13.040 --> 0:34:17.600 They make the MB traps. I could go on there 0:34:17.719 --> 0:34:23.680 right now, Sam and buy Fox Piss, Bobcat Piss, Kyle piss. 0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:26.879 I don't see any reason you couldn't have I haven't 0:34:26.880 --> 0:34:28.520 seen it, yep. I don't see any reason you couldn't 0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:32.239 have some buck Man juice tonight. That's a great idea, man, 0:34:35.480 --> 0:34:36.920 all right, dog, I'll give you. I'll give you a 0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:41.680 call and figure out how to work that up. Here's 0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:44.800 a good news story that came in. Uh. This was 0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:47.360 fed to me. No, No, my buddy Matt sent this 0:34:47.440 --> 0:34:52.640 to me. Texas this is the deadliest state when it 0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:58.760 comes to animal on human attacks five hundred and twenty. 0:34:58.920 --> 0:35:03.480 This is amazing. Five twenty people in Texas were killed 0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:09.879 by animals between nineteen and two thousand, nineteen. California's second place, 0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:14.640 the most populous state. Bear in mind, the second place 0:35:14.760 --> 0:35:19.879 but a distant second two hundred deaths during that time span. 0:35:23.080 --> 0:35:24.800 The state that you think would be winning all this 0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:32.160 is only in third place. Florida m closely trailing California 0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:36.440 two seven deaths. What's the animals? I'm going to get 0:35:36.480 --> 0:35:39.719 to that. What do you think the safest states are? 0:35:40.280 --> 0:35:43.480 Two or to makes sense and one doesn't? New Jersey, 0:35:44.360 --> 0:35:51.600 New England state somewhere Rhode Island, Delaware, in North Dakota 0:35:52.120 --> 0:35:56.759 m hm, yeah, I can see that not much folks. Yeah, yeah, 0:35:56.760 --> 0:35:58.279 you had a little population, but I feel like they 0:35:58.400 --> 0:36:02.080 kind of are out there mixing it up, like they're 0:36:02.080 --> 0:36:08.160 out and about Dakota. That can kill you. Snakes, well, 0:36:08.840 --> 0:36:13.320 guess guess what kills you in Texas? I know, but 0:36:13.520 --> 0:36:19.319 dogs like feral dogs, dogs, mountain lions, and snakes were 0:36:19.360 --> 0:36:23.200 registered among animals that cause deaths. We don't know that 0:36:23.320 --> 0:36:29.840 which caused the greatest number. Yeah, I suppose two d 0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:33.640 one out of the five twenty people. Okay, oh yeah, 0:36:33.960 --> 0:36:37.399 so Rhode Island, Delaware, North Dakota during those twenty years, 0:36:37.840 --> 0:36:42.920 no reports of animals killing people. Oh that's significant. But 0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:45.480 see that's reported, so that who knows. But still I mean, 0:36:45.600 --> 0:36:50.000 like right, yeah, it's definitely if someone missed one. I 0:36:50.040 --> 0:36:54.319 don't know. In Texas, dogs, mountain lions, and snakes. They 0:36:54.360 --> 0:36:58.120 don't do it relative to what But okay, two hundred 0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:02.520 one out of the five hundred and twenty deaths, we're 0:37:02.600 --> 0:37:06.360 from mammals, So not snakes for you people that aren't 0:37:06.440 --> 0:37:11.480 hip taxonomy. We're from mammals biting or striking a person 0:37:14.360 --> 0:37:21.120 perfection or like I could see if those feral hogs 0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:24.040 down there, sure tearing people up. Yeah, they did kill 0:37:24.080 --> 0:37:29.759 a person. Here's one for you, Phelps. You're ready to 0:37:29.800 --> 0:37:35.120 be shamed. I'm ready. I was explaining to Jason Felts, 0:37:35.200 --> 0:37:40.120 who was who was? Ah, not adversarial to the knowledge 0:37:40.160 --> 0:37:41.800 I was given them, but had a lot of questions, 0:37:43.520 --> 0:37:45.800 and I was we're talking about areas like in in 0:37:46.239 --> 0:37:48.840 everyone knows that in in in hunting. In the hunting world, 0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:52.520 we speak of an area having good genetics, right, like 0:37:53.560 --> 0:37:57.200 you know, there's certain areas that we know produce um 0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:04.520 like for like uh consistently produced big box or big bowls, 0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:06.400 and people be like, man, that place has great genetics. 0:38:06.480 --> 0:38:08.400 And I was explaining that we did a podcast a 0:38:08.440 --> 0:38:09.960 long time ago. I can't remember what number, so we 0:38:09.960 --> 0:38:12.520 should look up that number, what number episode it was 0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:20.840 with Keith Monteeth and and Um Kaufman Um from University 0:38:20.840 --> 0:38:25.880 of Wyoming. UM. They've been doing a lot of research 0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:31.200 that talk about nutrition being pro I I had to 0:38:31.280 --> 0:38:35.239 go read listen to myself, but nutrition and stress being 0:38:35.400 --> 0:38:40.120 perhaps a bigger indicator of an animal's ultimate growth. And 0:38:40.320 --> 0:38:45.520 and then horn representation or horn or antler representation than genetics. 0:38:45.880 --> 0:38:48.279 And talked about how you can take deer from an 0:38:48.320 --> 0:38:53.160 area that supposedly have poor genetics, put them on the 0:38:53.760 --> 0:38:57.640 ground like the nutrition and ground conditions and not them. 0:38:57.840 --> 0:39:02.799 They don't turn into something, but a couple of generations later, 0:39:02.880 --> 0:39:06.839 their offspring will, meaning that a buck. By the time 0:39:06.960 --> 0:39:11.960 a buck hits the ground, it's sort of it's it's 0:39:12.040 --> 0:39:16.000 fate might already be sealed depending on the body condition 0:39:16.160 --> 0:39:23.080 of the dough in prenatal so like in development in 0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:27.960 the uterus, and then how much nutrition she had while 0:39:28.440 --> 0:39:33.880 during lactation that that that that dear's history is kind 0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:36.000 of written at that could be like kind of have 0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:40.600 already been written at that point, like that those months 0:39:41.480 --> 0:39:43.000 could be like what that thing is gonna look like. 0:39:43.040 --> 0:39:47.279 As a five year old, Jason was like, well, I 0:39:47.320 --> 0:40:01.279 don't know about had lots of arguments. Listen to this 0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:05.440 one because it comes from Baffle figure as well. He 0:40:05.520 --> 0:40:07.520 said something he thought would be very interesting about prong 0:40:07.600 --> 0:40:13.200 horned data in the Southwest. Now, with deer, it seems that, 0:40:13.440 --> 0:40:15.520 like with deer, it seems that you're gonna throw your 0:40:15.560 --> 0:40:21.879 best antlers five six, seven years of age. Okay, pronghorn 0:40:22.680 --> 0:40:28.600 um do it much quicker. In fact, it's seven. So 0:40:28.680 --> 0:40:30.320 let let me back up and say this. So prong 0:40:30.440 --> 0:40:35.040 horn are a horned animal that sheds its horn, like 0:40:35.200 --> 0:40:37.520 the only yeah, they're the only horned animal I think 0:40:37.520 --> 0:40:39.960 in the world that sheds its horn. So it annually 0:40:40.000 --> 0:40:43.239 sheds its horn. So it's got a horn. But you 0:40:43.280 --> 0:40:45.280 can kind of look at this, you know, it grows 0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:46.920 over the years and it like sheds and a new 0:40:47.000 --> 0:40:48.840 one grows up in its place. It's kind of already 0:40:48.880 --> 0:40:51.120 it's kind of this stinky, little black, little weird thing. 0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:54.680 Growing under itself. So the sheath balls off and there's 0:40:54.680 --> 0:40:56.799 another one already growing up in there. And when you're 0:40:56.800 --> 0:40:58.320 out in the woods, are out in the prairie, you know, 0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:02.919 out on the plans you'll find shed um. Pronghorn horns. 0:41:02.920 --> 0:41:04.560 They don't laugh. They don't seem to last that long 0:41:04.719 --> 0:41:09.160 on the ground. They kind of deteriorate, but they're saying 0:41:09.239 --> 0:41:13.680 that um for a long time. The world record pronghorn 0:41:14.560 --> 0:41:21.080 was a three year old from Arizona, Yep. Halfl Finger 0:41:21.120 --> 0:41:22.800 says this, I'm doing a horrible job right now, but 0:41:22.920 --> 0:41:25.080 just bear with me. Halfl Finger says this in a nutshell, 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:28.800 age is not the most important factor in producing large 0:41:29.000 --> 0:41:36.520 antelope horns. Environment contributes to this annually replaced sheath, but 0:41:36.680 --> 0:41:41.560 once animals reached three years old, there's no significant increase 0:41:41.680 --> 0:41:45.760 over the next few years in horn size based on age. 0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:52.680 It's just variation according to their nutritional condition during horn growth, 0:41:53.280 --> 0:41:58.399 and some contribution from genetics. He goes on to say, 0:41:58.480 --> 0:42:02.520 managing of population, the average age of pronghorn bucks. He's 0:42:02.560 --> 0:42:08.120 using antelope and pronghorn synonymously here. Managing a population where 0:42:08.160 --> 0:42:11.279 the average age of prong horn bucks killed is three 0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:16.480 years old will not produce significantly fewer trophies than a 0:42:16.560 --> 0:42:20.560 population managed for the average age of the buck being 0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:27.200 six years old. At seven, they produced smaller horns. This 0:42:27.400 --> 0:42:31.040 is very different from deer, in which antler growth peaks 0:42:31.120 --> 0:42:34.040 between five and seven years old in both mule deer 0:42:34.040 --> 0:42:37.240 and white tailed deer. Then he goes on to say, incredibly, 0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:40.239 the longtime world record prong horn was three years old 0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:43.160 from Arizona, but then I got beat by a new 0:42:43.200 --> 0:42:49.799 Mexico buck. In ends with this little interesting thing. Pronghorn 0:42:49.880 --> 0:42:53.560 are different critters. They are the last remaining species in 0:42:53.680 --> 0:43:00.839 their entire family worldwide, as bart O'Gara, where the researchers 0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:04.560 mentions they are not the same as serviants in many ways, 0:43:04.880 --> 0:43:08.600 so we shouldn't be surprised by certain differences, such as 0:43:08.680 --> 0:43:12.280 the fact that yearling prong horn way more than eighty 0:43:12.360 --> 0:43:16.799 percent of their adult weight. This is way different than 0:43:16.920 --> 0:43:20.800 yearling bull elk that way only about fifty percent of 0:43:20.920 --> 0:43:26.600 their potential adult weight. Well that belts for that, your 0:43:26.640 --> 0:43:31.200 pipes for then your beagle tube and smoking I don't have. 0:43:31.360 --> 0:43:33.319 I don't I'm not an analope expert, so I mean 0:43:34.520 --> 0:43:36.520 I mean body size though, which now you just like 0:43:36.719 --> 0:43:38.799 you ruin my whole argument I was building that time 0:43:38.880 --> 0:43:43.640 I was listening, is but what about their bodies? You're 0:43:43.640 --> 0:43:45.839 the kind of guy that when he's hearing something, I'm 0:43:46.000 --> 0:43:49.279 formulating my before I'm even done. But then you like 0:43:49.800 --> 0:43:52.680 you knock out right out of the park there with 0:43:52.760 --> 0:43:55.360 that of their body weight, because you see those you know, 0:43:55.440 --> 0:43:58.000 your bigger horn bucks, they're already you know, big bulky 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:01.520 size is compared to the you know, the does and 0:44:01.600 --> 0:44:04.880 whatnot and um, yeah, so just doing my whole argument, 0:44:04.960 --> 0:44:06.719 I can't argue with anything there. Did you do that 0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:09.399 when you're arguing with your wife? Oh, I'm already Yeah, 0:44:09.800 --> 0:44:11.759 I should probably stay like three steps ahead of it. 0:44:11.800 --> 0:44:14.040 I should probably spend more time listening, but I'm instead 0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:16.879 of listening, I'm just already formulating on like the last point. Yeah, 0:44:16.880 --> 0:44:19.320 I'm sitting there being like just I'm not sitting to 0:44:19.400 --> 0:44:20.719 be like, I can't wait till she's done so I 0:44:20.760 --> 0:44:25.960 can save my rebuttal that's I don't know much about antelope, 0:44:26.000 --> 0:44:28.880 but I guess, I mean, it is what it is. 0:44:30.760 --> 0:44:33.080 I could. I thought I was gonna get to argue 0:44:33.120 --> 0:44:36.720 like horn size against dear genetics, but pulled the antelope 0:44:36.719 --> 0:44:40.799 card and I don't know anything about him, says they 0:44:40.920 --> 0:44:45.960 shed shed him after the rut October through December. Antelope. 0:44:46.600 --> 0:44:50.840 I haven't had this happen. I've killed him late in 0:44:50.920 --> 0:44:56.040 the season where they feel kind of wiggly. I've had 0:44:56.120 --> 0:45:00.120 guys tell me that they've gone up to him at 0:45:00.160 --> 0:45:02.080 the tow towards the tail end of the antelope sees, 0:45:02.120 --> 0:45:04.960 which stretches into October, that they've gone up to him 0:45:05.360 --> 0:45:08.040 and we're dragging them by the horn and had the 0:45:08.080 --> 0:45:12.200 horn sheaths pop off in their hands. Yeah, I've never 0:45:12.239 --> 0:45:14.440 seen it. I mean, he's just that close to shed. 0:45:14.920 --> 0:45:17.840 So there's another fully formed Oh yeah, then there's this greasy, 0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:23.320 little hairy little horn under there. Yeah, it's kind of 0:45:23.320 --> 0:45:26.480 weird pop off in your hand. Or they people being 0:45:26.520 --> 0:45:29.600 out and seeing where they've they've shed, like they've they've 0:45:29.640 --> 0:45:32.239 dropped one or whatever, you know. Yeah, I just looked 0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:35.719 that up because I was wondering, like how long they'll 0:45:35.800 --> 0:45:38.720 last on the ground before they disintegrate. And I've found 0:45:38.760 --> 0:45:41.400 them before, but I'm trying to remember what time of 0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:43.480 year it was, and I feel like it was spring 0:45:45.000 --> 0:45:49.160 like hiking around and out east for turkeys and finding 0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:51.720 a couple of I found one in Wyoming. I found 0:45:51.760 --> 0:45:57.400 one wild hunting antelope in Wyoming last year that looked 0:45:57.440 --> 0:45:59.680 like an old dead piece of sage brush and you 0:45:59.719 --> 0:46:02.120 couldn't was kind of crumble in your hand. I don't 0:46:02.160 --> 0:46:03.440 know if they don't know how long they last. I 0:46:03.440 --> 0:46:04.600 don't know when the hell that one felt. But I 0:46:04.640 --> 0:46:06.359 just never got the feeling they last a long time. 0:46:06.480 --> 0:46:09.040 I found one last season to a skull, and then 0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:12.120 I found a sheath and I have them both sitting 0:46:12.160 --> 0:46:14.040 on my bookshelf right now, are you gonna put him 0:46:14.040 --> 0:46:20.279 in the auction? I found one? I found one last there. 0:46:20.280 --> 0:46:23.640 I found one last October that was not from that year, 0:46:25.160 --> 0:46:27.319 and so it was probably a year old. What kind 0:46:27.320 --> 0:46:28.920 of shape was it in? It was in good shape. 0:46:29.440 --> 0:46:33.239 I'm sure it's sitting on my window sill at home. 0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:40.800 Do you want it for the auction? Hoodities we'll see maybe, yeah, probably. 0:46:40.840 --> 0:46:43.320 It's a nice one. It's small, but it's cool. I 0:46:43.440 --> 0:46:45.719 like that one had to school with it. Oh yeah, 0:46:45.760 --> 0:46:48.239 we'll put it on there. I don't want to mess you. 0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:49.920 I don't want to mess your windows still up. It's 0:46:49.920 --> 0:46:51.720 pretty cool window sill. It's got lots of cool stuff 0:46:51.719 --> 0:46:57.000 on it. All right, let's go it in there. Okay, um, chest, 0:46:57.040 --> 0:47:02.839 you will hand deliver that. It's gonna be a quick 0:47:02.880 --> 0:47:08.920 in and out. He comes in. He's right here. It 0:47:09.000 --> 0:47:13.080 told me to bring this here. Okay, one more thing. 0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:16.239 We're gonna cover one more newsy thing. But it's so complicated, 0:47:16.280 --> 0:47:17.719 and we touched on it before. I want to just 0:47:17.840 --> 0:47:19.360 tease it and then we're gonna get into it to 0:47:19.719 --> 0:47:22.600 a greater degree later. But it has to do with 0:47:22.680 --> 0:47:24.160 the thing. You're probably gonna be hearing a lot about 0:47:25.400 --> 0:47:28.759 people getting all up in arms about it, and many 0:47:29.520 --> 0:47:33.120 in my view, up in arms about it a little 0:47:33.160 --> 0:47:36.200 prematurely and without thinking it through. And it's a it's 0:47:36.200 --> 0:47:43.920 an initiative. It's known as thirty by thirty. What the 0:47:44.000 --> 0:47:48.520 thirty by thirty initiative refers to is there's a goal 0:47:48.600 --> 0:47:53.000 of conserving. Okay. So we talked about this for with 0:47:53.160 --> 0:47:57.279 Fosberg from Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership was on and just 0:47:57.600 --> 0:48:00.960 everybody knows, like I'm friends with it, I'm on the 0:48:01.040 --> 0:48:07.040 board of trcp UH what was on and we discussed 0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:10.440 briefly the concept of thirty and it's the goal of 0:48:10.600 --> 0:48:19.160 conserving of the planet's lands and waters by twenty Now, 0:48:20.600 --> 0:48:24.239 the Biden administration put out a thing about saying how 0:48:24.360 --> 0:48:28.720 thirty by thirty was a goal, and people immediately felt 0:48:28.800 --> 0:48:32.960 that like thirty by thirty, the thirty Initiative and the 0:48:33.040 --> 0:48:35.800 Biden administration are like synonymous, and it was a creation 0:48:35.880 --> 0:48:40.400 of the Biden administration. It is not political and it 0:48:40.480 --> 0:48:43.359 does not come from the Biden administration. It existed long 0:48:43.440 --> 0:48:48.560 before the Biden administration. It's also not clearly defined. People 0:48:48.600 --> 0:48:53.600 are hearing conserve of lands and waters and they're imagining 0:48:53.680 --> 0:48:58.200 that it means like preserve. Okay, so their imagining it 0:48:58.320 --> 0:49:02.560 means wilderness areas, national parks, monument stuff like that. That's 0:49:02.640 --> 0:49:05.480 not the case. It is yet to be defined. But 0:49:05.719 --> 0:49:11.600 any definition that comes up, in my view, has to 0:49:11.800 --> 0:49:19.320 include well managed and protected working lands, and we talked 0:49:19.320 --> 0:49:24.360 about that with WIT meaning ranches like cattle ranches within 0:49:24.840 --> 0:49:30.000 conservation easements. Recreational properties so properties people owned for hunting 0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:32.920 purposes that they have no plans when they sort of 0:49:33.040 --> 0:49:36.240 rite up the legacy of the landscape how to move generationally, 0:49:36.920 --> 0:49:40.560 that it remains as is, it remains as a recreational property, 0:49:40.920 --> 0:49:47.840 doesn't get subdivided and developed. This this concept is important, Like, 0:49:47.960 --> 0:49:50.160 it's important that we do this and get it right 0:49:50.280 --> 0:49:52.600 for a variety of reasons, like to maintain good hunting 0:49:52.640 --> 0:49:57.239 and fishing, to maintain bio diversity, to be prepared for 0:49:58.120 --> 0:50:02.600 um increased changes in our climate by making sure that 0:50:02.680 --> 0:50:04.920 we have a lot of habitat for wildlife to live on, 0:50:05.680 --> 0:50:08.839 to have space to adapt. It's like it's a thing 0:50:08.920 --> 0:50:11.000 that we need to help shape. But it's like a 0:50:11.080 --> 0:50:17.719 concept that is not owned by any political party. It 0:50:17.800 --> 0:50:22.239 will inevitably fall across partisan lines to some degree because 0:50:22.280 --> 0:50:23.879 people are going to view it as a land grab, 0:50:24.120 --> 0:50:26.600 but no one's at this point, no one's grabbing anybody's 0:50:26.719 --> 0:50:33.640 land like this. I think done properly, it's a great 0:50:33.719 --> 0:50:36.279 goal and it's a good idea, and you should if 0:50:36.280 --> 0:50:38.040 you like the hunt fish, you should pay attention to it. 0:50:38.320 --> 0:50:42.800 If you're worried about private land rights, I think you 0:50:42.840 --> 0:50:46.360 should be involved in the conversation about how this stuff 0:50:46.440 --> 0:50:51.520 is going to be defined. Some of the t RCPs 0:50:51.560 --> 0:50:55.360 viewpoints on it, they just want to know that, like 0:50:55.640 --> 0:50:59.279 it was, it was born of scientists. They want to 0:50:59.320 --> 0:51:05.720 see the concert avation must be clearly defined. It's critical 0:51:05.760 --> 0:51:09.000 to understanding what, where, and how lands managed specifically for 0:51:09.120 --> 0:51:13.480 conservation under public and private ownership and not just permanently 0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:17.080 protected areas are contributing to the broader goals of thirty. 0:51:21.200 --> 0:51:22.840 They want to know where we stand right now in 0:51:22.920 --> 0:51:26.440 relation to the goal. The U S Geological Survey estimates 0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:29.319 that estimates that twelve percent of the country's lands are 0:51:29.440 --> 0:51:35.400 already permanently protected. Of US ocean waters, mostly in the Pacific, 0:51:35.520 --> 0:51:39.920 are currently protected. How do we achieve the remaining eight 0:51:40.200 --> 0:51:46.600 percent of land? Needs to be defined like what we 0:51:46.719 --> 0:51:51.680 have now, what we're gonna need? They want hunters and 0:51:51.760 --> 0:51:54.600 anglers to have a seat at the table. Says we 0:51:54.719 --> 0:52:00.160 have a very long legacy of conservation stewardship and there's 0:52:00.200 --> 0:52:05.680 no reason we would abandoned that now. And community driven 0:52:05.760 --> 0:52:11.279 conservation is key. That's another point they have. Fresh water 0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:17.080 needs to be included and thirty thirty should not ignore 0:52:17.760 --> 0:52:23.759 degraded habitats that need restoration, Meaning instead of just saying 0:52:23.800 --> 0:52:28.480 stuff that's already pristine needs to be held pristine, it 0:52:28.520 --> 0:52:33.600 would be that stuff that is degraded habitat. While they've 0:52:33.640 --> 0:52:38.560 habitats is degraded should be restored and added to the total. 0:52:40.080 --> 0:52:41.839 So we're gonna talk about this a whole bunch more 0:52:42.640 --> 0:52:45.719 coming up. But they have a thing, Uh, they put 0:52:45.760 --> 0:52:47.640 out an article what hunters and Anglers need to know 0:52:47.680 --> 0:52:51.640 about thirty by thirty As it sort of gains traction 0:52:51.800 --> 0:52:57.200 and gains detractors. I think, why that felts you gonna 0:52:57.200 --> 0:52:59.040 read up? Were you formulating a rebuttal or you're gonna 0:52:59.040 --> 0:53:00.760 read up on that? I just have so many questions. 0:53:03.600 --> 0:53:06.879 Skepticism is the chastity the intellect right now? Just lots 0:53:06.880 --> 0:53:09.680 of Yeah, lots of questions, like what checkboxes they get 0:53:09.719 --> 0:53:13.839 it back to normal and you know, definitions, yeah, conservers, 0:53:14.200 --> 0:53:16.640 and then like is there equity across like the West 0:53:16.800 --> 0:53:19.640 versus east, Like at the west hold the whole entire 0:53:20.440 --> 0:53:23.160 like percentage or does it need to be like spread 0:53:23.239 --> 0:53:25.640 cool across you know the country and kind of how 0:53:25.680 --> 0:53:30.040 everything fits. Yeah, in bear in minds, it's like, you know, 0:53:31.920 --> 0:53:35.520 there's sort of like the global output, the global outlook, 0:53:35.520 --> 0:53:37.880 and then there's like what we could do do we 0:53:38.360 --> 0:53:40.759 shoulder more? I mean, we're a huge country. Do do 0:53:40.880 --> 0:53:44.160 we just do our percentage? Do we shoulder more to 0:53:44.200 --> 0:53:48.239 make up for people that aren't cant paying attention to this. Yeah, 0:53:48.320 --> 0:53:50.800 that's tough, Like we can do, we do our whatever, 0:53:50.880 --> 0:53:54.320 our twelve to We put all this effort in and 0:53:54.360 --> 0:53:57.399 then and like the global you know, the global skime, 0:53:57.480 --> 0:54:00.040 it doesn't even matter. That makes it tough, Like you 0:54:00.080 --> 0:54:02.800 still feel good about what you did. But does that change, 0:54:02.880 --> 0:54:05.560 like the little change inside the US, does it? Does 0:54:05.600 --> 0:54:09.360 it ultimately even matter in the in the global outcome 0:54:10.040 --> 0:54:12.440 if nobody else is on board. I was a long 0:54:12.520 --> 0:54:17.040 time ago imagining, um that there was a sort of 0:54:20.280 --> 0:54:23.759 that there was room for a sort of Um, this 0:54:23.880 --> 0:54:26.400 is gonna come off sounding weird and wrong, but I 0:54:26.480 --> 0:54:29.000 haven't clearly defined it. There's room for a sort of 0:54:29.160 --> 0:54:41.239 environmental nationalism. I feel, uh that that like part of 0:54:41.280 --> 0:54:46.319 American exceptionalism. You know, if you sit and think, if 0:54:46.360 --> 0:54:48.919 you imagine America's being like the greatest country on earth, 0:54:50.320 --> 0:54:56.080 with the greatest liberties political system whatever, that um, that 0:54:56.239 --> 0:55:02.000 exceptionalism or that nationalism would lead to in you know, 0:55:02.120 --> 0:55:06.200 an equal bit of environmental stewardship, conservation leadership, you know, 0:55:07.000 --> 0:55:10.360 in that way, I would be like, uh, that we 0:55:10.400 --> 0:55:15.240 would aspire to do better than our share. But again, 0:55:15.400 --> 0:55:17.120 and as we talked about what it really comes down 0:55:17.160 --> 0:55:19.400 to a lot of things like you could have. Um, 0:55:19.480 --> 0:55:21.960 I think people are automatically gonna reflexively think like, oh, 0:55:22.040 --> 0:55:23.520 this is gonna be someone telling me what to do, 0:55:23.800 --> 0:55:26.120 but it might be someone encouraging you, helping you do 0:55:26.200 --> 0:55:28.800 what you already wish you could do. In terms of 0:55:28.840 --> 0:55:31.839 recreational properties and all the hunting lands and ranch lands 0:55:32.280 --> 0:55:35.439 and like, the point they make is how we take 0:55:35.520 --> 0:55:38.000 places that aren't doing anything for wildlife and make them 0:55:38.080 --> 0:55:42.160 good wildlife areas. I'm all for that. So it's not 0:55:42.280 --> 0:55:43.920 just like peeling away from its order there, but like 0:55:44.000 --> 0:55:47.320 creating it. I don't want people to ride away and 0:55:47.320 --> 0:55:52.120 be like, oh, damn Biden. You know, there's all kinds 0:55:52.120 --> 0:55:56.160 of reasons to be mad at Biden right now. But yeah, no, 0:55:56.280 --> 0:56:00.000 I'm all for it. All right, Sam, it's your turn down. 0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:04.319 You've been on the show before, Samantha Bates. Yes, I've 0:56:04.360 --> 0:56:05.759 asked you this before. We can't remember what you said. 0:56:05.760 --> 0:56:09.160 You actually prefer Sam. I don't have a preference, Sam, Samantha, 0:56:09.239 --> 0:56:12.359 anything's fine. Oh, this is the first time you don't 0:56:12.360 --> 0:56:14.520 know how to quite how to put it. This is 0:56:14.560 --> 0:56:17.520 the first time you've what what what how would you 0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:19.040 call it? I don't know what title you would have 0:56:19.200 --> 0:56:22.960 right now. Oh. Um, this is the first time that 0:56:23.120 --> 0:56:27.719 I have produced and field produced a meat produced anfield 0:56:27.760 --> 0:56:31.200 produced the media episode. Did it? Uh? What do you 0:56:31.239 --> 0:56:34.239 think about that? Not to be in the first well, like, 0:56:34.280 --> 0:56:38.799 give me, give me how did you feel about the experience? Oh? 0:56:38.960 --> 0:56:44.080 Overall really positive? Um. I think it's just good for 0:56:44.200 --> 0:56:45.959 me to be able to get out in the field 0:56:46.000 --> 0:56:47.839 and be able to observe a little bit and kind 0:56:47.880 --> 0:56:50.640 of see what everyone's roles are. So I'm looking at 0:56:50.680 --> 0:56:53.839 this very much from a production standpoint of like, um, 0:56:54.120 --> 0:56:58.040 how everyone's working and cohesively, you know, doing this together. 0:56:58.120 --> 0:57:05.279 And I like this crew because everyone is so self sufficient. Um. 0:57:05.480 --> 0:57:09.720 And that's actually a rarity to find on film crewise. 0:57:09.920 --> 0:57:11.759 I don't know. I don't know if Garrett and Lauren 0:57:11.840 --> 0:57:14.399 can speak to that a little bit more, but it's 0:57:14.440 --> 0:57:16.960 a rarity for sure. Give me some more. What do 0:57:17.000 --> 0:57:19.920 you mean by that, Um, there's a lot more hand holding, 0:57:20.080 --> 0:57:24.000 there's a lot more direction that needs to be offered. Um, 0:57:24.400 --> 0:57:28.960 you know, holding people's water bottles, giving people their water bottles, 0:57:29.640 --> 0:57:32.360 opening the caps to the water bottles. Like these are 0:57:32.440 --> 0:57:35.360 real scenarios. The things that you get involved in. Absolutely, 0:57:35.680 --> 0:57:39.240 someone needs to be helping people get them open. Absolutely, 0:57:39.440 --> 0:57:41.240 And it's just kind of like, you know, you're never 0:57:41.320 --> 0:57:44.200 gonna ask me to carry your bow and arrow for 0:57:44.360 --> 0:57:46.800 you or shoot an elk for you, because you're going 0:57:46.840 --> 0:57:50.800 to do it. Like that's a thing that happens sometimes 0:57:50.880 --> 0:57:55.440 on other sets. Absolutely, not the bow and arrows scenario, 0:57:55.480 --> 0:58:00.360 but literally opening a water bottle for someone. Huh, and 0:58:00.480 --> 0:58:03.520 you expected to be opening water bottles? No, Oh my god, 0:58:03.600 --> 0:58:07.080 No I didn't. But I think I was pleasantly surprised 0:58:07.200 --> 0:58:11.200 by how everyone owns their ship and you know, does 0:58:11.320 --> 0:58:14.040 their role. It's just really awesome. Did you find that 0:58:14.200 --> 0:58:18.520 you were, Um, just people know, we're in New Mexico, 0:58:18.520 --> 0:58:21.400 we just finished an elk count got a couple of bulls. 0:58:22.760 --> 0:58:24.880 Did you find that you were Did you feel like 0:58:25.000 --> 0:58:27.960 in the normal day to day goings on, were you 0:58:28.200 --> 0:58:33.919 more working or more kind of like sort of into 0:58:33.960 --> 0:58:38.280 the elk counton thing. Oh, it's an absolute combination. I 0:58:38.400 --> 0:58:40.960 really wouldn't be able because I'm I'm definitely thinking about 0:58:41.080 --> 0:58:44.200 the story and how things are unfolding and maybe what 0:58:44.320 --> 0:58:49.280 we're missing, And it's just interesting that also, um and 0:58:49.480 --> 0:58:54.400 finally understand like how the story kind of um evolves 0:58:54.680 --> 0:58:57.720 on these hunts. But I definitely felt like I was 0:58:57.840 --> 0:58:59.800 getting a little bit more in the hunting, and I'd 0:58:59.840 --> 0:59:01.960 be like asking Seth and Chester were like, Okay, what's 0:59:02.000 --> 0:59:06.720 happening right now? And um, you know, really intrigued by 0:59:06.920 --> 0:59:10.520 Jason's calls and trying to figure out like why you 0:59:10.600 --> 0:59:13.120 were using certain calls and win because there definitely seemed 0:59:13.120 --> 0:59:15.560 to be a little bit of a pattern. Um. But 0:59:15.680 --> 0:59:18.400 that was my first ever archery hunt, my first ever 0:59:18.520 --> 0:59:21.680 elk hunt to witness, so um, everything was new to 0:59:21.760 --> 0:59:23.440 me and I can't believe that we were in a 0:59:23.520 --> 0:59:28.400 spot like this in New Mexico where we saw that 0:59:28.480 --> 0:59:32.919 doesn't happen. It wasn't the numbers like the numbers sure 0:59:34.200 --> 0:59:36.960 like you can go places and see more meaning, oh, 0:59:37.040 --> 0:59:39.919 there's two fifty of them all bawled up, and yeah, 0:59:40.000 --> 0:59:46.440 that's looking extremely agitated. I've never heard that many elk before, 0:59:46.680 --> 0:59:50.280 constantly throughout the night. And then however many run ins 0:59:50.360 --> 0:59:52.600 you all had too, and how many times you could 0:59:52.640 --> 0:59:56.560 call in elk, I imagine that's pretty unique. We had. 0:59:57.840 --> 1:00:01.120 Let me think, let's say inside of rty yards, we 1:00:01.240 --> 1:00:03.640 had well when we kind of got caught twice because 1:00:03.640 --> 1:00:07.640 we called him in twice. I think it's condom as 1:00:07.720 --> 1:00:09.360 to you, because who knows either way? He came in 1:00:09.400 --> 1:00:20.880 twice one, two, three, four, five, six, six bulls inside 1:00:20.920 --> 1:00:28.040 forty yards in how many days? Three four? Yeah, and 1:00:28.160 --> 1:00:32.040 that's short hunting days because it's so unbelievably hot. What 1:00:32.200 --> 1:00:35.200 we get? Oh yeah, that one day I said, it 1:00:35.240 --> 1:00:38.720 feels like kind of like abnormally hot. It was seven 1:00:38.760 --> 1:00:43.760 that day. Yeah, it was misable, brutal. Can you give 1:00:43.800 --> 1:00:49.000 people your your philosophy on hiding, Sam, It does not 1:00:49.280 --> 1:00:52.160 matter what shoot I am on, whether it's for hunting 1:00:52.520 --> 1:00:55.000 or anything else. I am hiding all the time. That 1:00:55.240 --> 1:01:00.360 is like versus like Chester and seth hiding heads. They're 1:01:00.400 --> 1:01:03.360 poked like most people. Would you tell most people to hide, 1:01:03.680 --> 1:01:05.959 but there's like an elk coming. They're not gonna hide. 1:01:07.120 --> 1:01:11.080 They're gonna like find a way to sort of you know, 1:01:11.480 --> 1:01:15.560 be hidden, to see what's happening. Like the curiosity kills him. Yeah, No, 1:01:15.720 --> 1:01:18.720 I am just because I don't want to ruin something. 1:01:18.800 --> 1:01:20.920 I mean, I haven't had plenty of issues with Lauren 1:01:21.080 --> 1:01:23.320 where like he'll be filming and then all of a sudden, 1:01:23.320 --> 1:01:25.240 you'll see me just like crouch down to the ground. 1:01:26.760 --> 1:01:28.680 I just I'm hiding all the time, I said, I 1:01:28.720 --> 1:01:30.760 asked her about a bullet. Did you see that? No, 1:01:30.880 --> 1:01:38.680 I was hiding. I was doing my job. I saw uh. 1:01:38.800 --> 1:01:41.920 And then yeah, the one thing is you had to 1:01:41.960 --> 1:01:44.200 help with. You had to do the pack out as 1:01:44.240 --> 1:01:46.720 your first pack out was. It's too Yeah, my first 1:01:46.760 --> 1:01:50.120 Elk pack out. We used to have not used to 1:01:51.040 --> 1:01:53.280 like it's a thing we'll talk about, like a death 1:01:53.320 --> 1:01:57.760 march um and we're trying to define what constitute the 1:01:57.800 --> 1:02:01.200 death march, and Yanni fells it it's not a death 1:02:01.280 --> 1:02:05.320 march until there's a fight, and the fights are always 1:02:05.320 --> 1:02:12.000 about one thing, routes, And he says, it's really a 1:02:12.120 --> 1:02:18.360 death march when the group splits. And I felt like 1:02:18.480 --> 1:02:23.960 you were all you were within you know, fractions of 1:02:24.040 --> 1:02:28.040 an inch of witnessing the death march yesterday because there 1:02:28.120 --> 1:02:35.080 was some descent, there was some route descent. Does does 1:02:35.200 --> 1:02:38.720 nighttime play a role in the death Yeah? The worst 1:02:38.760 --> 1:02:41.080 death march I've ever been involved in was just never 1:02:41.280 --> 1:02:46.400 ending involved dirt. I hope the statue. I don't know 1:02:46.400 --> 1:02:48.120 what the rules are Mexical, but dirt. It was the 1:02:48.240 --> 1:02:49.960 night that dirt killed a quail or the trek and 1:02:50.040 --> 1:02:54.120 poll Oh my gosh, just venting some of that frustration. 1:02:54.600 --> 1:02:58.680 Uh actually bagged himself quail. The trek pull or later 1:02:58.840 --> 1:03:02.400 overheard him described someone as a nightbird. You couldn't remember 1:03:02.440 --> 1:03:08.920 what it was, um, but wondering all over the place 1:03:09.160 --> 1:03:11.320 in the dark in Mexico and event you at one 1:03:11.400 --> 1:03:14.640 point we come across one of the like three million 1:03:14.840 --> 1:03:17.600 rocks we had passed that day. It's like a headsized 1:03:17.720 --> 1:03:21.160 rock and dirt. Have no audacity to say I remember 1:03:21.200 --> 1:03:29.040 that rock crew split that on that there was a split. Yeah, 1:03:29.080 --> 1:03:31.680 when you get into someone's like I'm out, I'm out, 1:03:32.200 --> 1:03:36.880 I'm going this way. That's a death march. Um, so 1:03:37.000 --> 1:03:38.760 I'll not like you would go again. You do not 1:03:38.880 --> 1:03:43.480 tell me now? Oh absolutely yeah. I had a great experience. 1:03:43.520 --> 1:03:47.240 I really enjoyed it. Um. You guys are all relatively 1:03:47.280 --> 1:03:50.880 fun people to be around it again and you're like 1:03:50.920 --> 1:03:53.240 all the camp and I love all the camping. I 1:03:53.280 --> 1:03:55.960 would say. My thorn of the trip was that damn 1:03:56.040 --> 1:04:02.240 tent that brought with me. UM tip to everyone, if 1:04:02.680 --> 1:04:05.320 Ryan Callahan gives you a floorless tent, don't take it 1:04:06.880 --> 1:04:10.800 because it's lighter. I'm not going to be ideal. The 1:04:10.880 --> 1:04:14.240 pauen Mights could get to you that way. Yeah, yeah, 1:04:15.080 --> 1:04:18.720 it's yeah, we got into some kind of we're trying 1:04:18.760 --> 1:04:22.680 to research it a chigger like thing that's not quite 1:04:22.720 --> 1:04:27.360 a chigger. You get bit by everything though. It's my 1:04:27.480 --> 1:04:30.320 real weakness. You called it a souped up jigger. Yeah, 1:04:31.440 --> 1:04:35.240 it seems like some sort of spider bite. Yeah, half 1:04:35.240 --> 1:04:39.640 of us got lit up. Pretty good, bad news, Okay, Jason, 1:04:39.680 --> 1:04:42.560 give you give you rundown on what what went on there? 1:04:43.080 --> 1:04:44.920 You're like, I haven't been I haven't hunted out with 1:04:44.960 --> 1:04:47.760 you yet. No, I knew that you were. Like when 1:04:48.080 --> 1:04:50.480 I think that I explained it for I think that Yanni, 1:04:51.680 --> 1:04:56.080 in my mind, Yanni was sort of like a godlike 1:04:56.160 --> 1:05:00.000 figure to me for alcoholm because one day he called 1:05:00.000 --> 1:05:02.080 all down three or four bulls in and I was like, man, 1:05:02.120 --> 1:05:04.760 this guy like he's just good. I thought, yeah, I 1:05:04.880 --> 1:05:10.160 thought he was good. Well he's not. Because then Yanni 1:05:10.280 --> 1:05:14.120 came to me and Yanni talked about Jason Phelps the 1:05:14.160 --> 1:05:18.960 way he thinks about you, the way I think about him. Yeah, 1:05:20.360 --> 1:05:23.440 this this area is good first off. And I think 1:05:23.480 --> 1:05:25.440 I was recapping and that's why I got down here early, 1:05:25.480 --> 1:05:27.480 just want to make sure we were in elk Um. 1:05:27.600 --> 1:05:30.400 But these out almost made my job too easy. I 1:05:30.520 --> 1:05:31.840 was telling you last night, I didn't have to go 1:05:31.960 --> 1:05:34.840 through like progression two or three or like what do 1:05:34.920 --> 1:05:37.000 I do next? Because he's elk. We're just, oh, they're 1:05:37.040 --> 1:05:39.320 just gonna eat up the first thing we threw at them, 1:05:39.320 --> 1:05:42.320 and it was it was it was almost too easy. Yeah, 1:05:42.440 --> 1:05:46.400 that bull that you got yesterday. I've never had this 1:05:46.480 --> 1:05:48.600 feeling going into an elk, but once we kind of 1:05:48.640 --> 1:05:53.440 like knew where like pinpointed sort of topographically where he was. Um, 1:05:54.160 --> 1:05:55.960 you never feel this way. But I was like, as 1:05:56.040 --> 1:05:59.280 we're like going in walking in, I'm like this bull 1:05:59.320 --> 1:06:02.640 will come yeah, and like I knew we were going 1:06:02.680 --> 1:06:04.080 to call the bullet. Yeah, the only thing we need 1:06:04.120 --> 1:06:05.440 to do is be quiet so we could get to 1:06:05.480 --> 1:06:07.880 that hundred hundred fifty yards, which we did, and it was, 1:06:08.560 --> 1:06:11.080 you know, it was a guarantee at that point. Once 1:06:11.120 --> 1:06:12.840 we I think we let one lip ball off. I 1:06:12.960 --> 1:06:14.840 let one lip ball off and then I kind of 1:06:14.880 --> 1:06:17.560 put my bigle tube away maybe maybe too, and then 1:06:17.640 --> 1:06:19.000 let you do it. That way we could get him 1:06:19.000 --> 1:06:20.320 close enough to us, and it was just it was 1:06:20.360 --> 1:06:22.680 one of those things where the UM, I think we 1:06:22.800 --> 1:06:24.960 even said it before, we're gonna sneak in on him, 1:06:25.000 --> 1:06:26.920 We're gonna surprise him, and then we're gonna you know, 1:06:27.080 --> 1:06:29.480 challenge him kind of, and that's what we did. UM 1:06:29.640 --> 1:06:31.200 kind of went to a two man caller there and 1:06:31.600 --> 1:06:33.160 it was it was just it was a great hunt. 1:06:33.200 --> 1:06:36.160 Lots of bowls, UM. I think the only I was 1:06:36.200 --> 1:06:38.040 trying to remember last night, the only bowl that we 1:06:38.200 --> 1:06:40.840 tried to call in and we didn't was the satellite 1:06:40.880 --> 1:06:45.080 bowl right before you ended up UM killing your bowl. Uh. 1:06:45.200 --> 1:06:46.920 You know, everything that we set up on I think 1:06:46.960 --> 1:06:49.040 we called to boat range, you know, as far as 1:06:49.800 --> 1:06:51.400 UM you know what we were trying to do besides 1:06:51.400 --> 1:06:53.240 maybe that bigger bull running up the mountain, which we 1:06:53.320 --> 1:06:55.720 didn't really ever get set up on. But UM, it 1:06:56.040 --> 1:06:58.360 was a fairly unique situation. But the I don't know 1:06:58.360 --> 1:07:00.440 if we just hit the rut right or what, UM, 1:07:00.560 --> 1:07:03.160 but it was it was a fun hunt. We had 1:07:03.200 --> 1:07:05.360 a really interesting thing play out. It kind of played 1:07:05.400 --> 1:07:07.560 all over two days, I think, but primarily on one 1:07:07.600 --> 1:07:10.160 day where we had another hunter working the out. We're 1:07:10.200 --> 1:07:17.640 working Doug. Yeah, and it was amazing to watch UM 1:07:17.960 --> 1:07:20.880 to be able to watch a bull. So we're watching 1:07:20.880 --> 1:07:22.880 the bull on the hillside and there's a guy approaching 1:07:22.920 --> 1:07:24.600 it from one direction and we're kind of approaching it 1:07:24.640 --> 1:07:34.080 for another direction, and to watch the elk ignore his 1:07:34.200 --> 1:07:38.400 bugles yep, like that if it's not right, like the 1:07:38.520 --> 1:07:43.040 elk would ignore it and would return every one of 1:07:43.120 --> 1:07:47.320 Jason's bugles. He's like something about it, like I don't 1:07:47.360 --> 1:07:48.600 know what it is. I don't think. I don't know 1:07:48.640 --> 1:07:50.560 if he thinks like, oh, that's a person whatever. It 1:07:50.720 --> 1:07:55.160 just doesn't it didn't trigger in him like that guy's 1:07:55.200 --> 1:07:59.600 bugles did not trigger in him what years did, to 1:07:59.680 --> 1:08:02.400 the point where I have multiple times he would like 1:08:03.040 --> 1:08:04.760 the other guy would bugle, and the elk would look 1:08:04.800 --> 1:08:08.280 that direction and go to like maybe bugle, and then 1:08:08.320 --> 1:08:10.600 you'd cow call or bugle and he just a completely 1:08:10.680 --> 1:08:14.520 divert his attention and you could draw it back in. 1:08:14.920 --> 1:08:18.080 And there's something about like the authenticity of the sound 1:08:18.400 --> 1:08:20.640 was so much more compelling to that out now that 1:08:20.720 --> 1:08:22.760 he never did, like he paid attention to and bugle that, 1:08:22.880 --> 1:08:27.080 but you could like trigger a response out of him 1:08:27.160 --> 1:08:29.919 every single time. Yeah, I want to maintain some humility 1:08:29.960 --> 1:08:32.679 in this. This next comment but there is a huge difference, 1:08:32.720 --> 1:08:34.880 Like if you don't sound, I mean, we would hear 1:08:34.920 --> 1:08:36.600 that guy right out of the gate, and like I 1:08:36.640 --> 1:08:38.040 think we called it right off the bat, like that's 1:08:38.080 --> 1:08:40.160 a guy he's doing stuff that really elk don't do. 1:08:40.240 --> 1:08:43.320 He was lip ball chuckling, he was doing Explain what 1:08:43.360 --> 1:08:45.439 that means. So lip ball a lot of times, especially 1:08:45.479 --> 1:08:48.240 it's more prevalent down south, but all bulls will lip ball. 1:08:48.439 --> 1:08:50.840 It's kind of a very um unique sound that the 1:08:50.880 --> 1:08:53.200 bulls will make where it's almost like a rattle, you know, 1:08:53.240 --> 1:08:56.639 as the bugle. It's you know, as it goes through um. 1:08:57.080 --> 1:08:59.519 And we replicate that by sputtering our lips really really 1:08:59.600 --> 1:09:04.000 tight um. And and so usually they just do a long, 1:09:04.080 --> 1:09:05.640 drawn out lit ball and then they go kind of 1:09:05.800 --> 1:09:09.800 back to their clean chuckles. Yeah, but he was lip 1:09:09.880 --> 1:09:13.360 ball chuckling. I don't even know how, you know. And 1:09:13.560 --> 1:09:15.320 it's a noise that I've never heard in the woods, 1:09:15.360 --> 1:09:17.880 no matter how many times I've I've did this. And 1:09:18.320 --> 1:09:20.439 so if we can pick that up that easy, wouldn't 1:09:20.439 --> 1:09:22.560 you think like the creators of the language would be 1:09:22.600 --> 1:09:25.040 able to pick it up just as easily or better. 1:09:25.280 --> 1:09:27.519 At one point you commented that you could hear that 1:09:27.640 --> 1:09:30.280 he had saliva in his bugle tube. Yeah, I mean 1:09:31.840 --> 1:09:34.840 like he had some spit bubbles or something, because you'd 1:09:34.880 --> 1:09:36.680 hear him go to like start his biggle, and I'm like, well, 1:09:36.720 --> 1:09:40.240 that's he's He's got like air bubbles and saliva trapped 1:09:40.240 --> 1:09:43.439 in his read or whatever he's using. And so we 1:09:44.080 --> 1:09:46.519 kind of played like the reverse Marco Polo game with 1:09:46.560 --> 1:09:48.800 that guy, like just hear him biggle and then try 1:09:48.840 --> 1:09:51.040 to stay away from him and mess with his home. Dude. 1:09:51.080 --> 1:09:55.040 It made me massively self conscious, man, because, uh, when 1:09:55.120 --> 1:09:59.559 we like, can you remember those um everybody had one 1:09:59.600 --> 1:10:03.400 heal black premost bite and blow calls from whatever the 1:10:03.479 --> 1:10:06.240 late nineties, I guess like everybody had the same one 1:10:06.400 --> 1:10:09.320 in the hyper the hyper lip. I remember we used 1:10:09.360 --> 1:10:13.800 to you know, there's all kinds of wrong ways we 1:10:13.800 --> 1:10:15.840 would approach it in the late nineties we first started 1:10:15.880 --> 1:10:18.760 doing it, but we would regard blowing that as a 1:10:18.760 --> 1:10:22.720 way to get the outgoing the other way. But if 1:10:22.760 --> 1:10:24.880 you wanted to send them the other direction, blow that, 1:10:26.080 --> 1:10:28.040 you know, and not that's not hacking on that's like 1:10:28.160 --> 1:10:32.360 absolutely not hacking on premos calls. That's like wrong sort 1:10:32.360 --> 1:10:35.760 of like wrong call, wrong time, not understanding what you're doing, 1:10:36.680 --> 1:10:40.280 you know. And and added to the fact of like 1:10:40.400 --> 1:10:43.439 a lot of people also doing that and creating a 1:10:43.520 --> 1:10:47.519 sort of signature, um, creating a sort of signature that 1:10:47.600 --> 1:10:50.120 things would start to associate with a certain kind of trouble. 1:10:50.439 --> 1:10:52.280 There's probably people that could have at that time taking 1:10:52.320 --> 1:10:53.960 that call and called in all kinds of bulls with it, 1:10:54.040 --> 1:10:57.679 but we just like weren't thinking about it the right way, 1:10:57.760 --> 1:11:02.240 weren't employing it at the right moment, you know. So yeah, 1:11:02.520 --> 1:11:06.160 not a hack in any respect, but it was amazing 1:11:06.240 --> 1:11:11.560 to watch, Um, you do what you do. And the 1:11:11.640 --> 1:11:16.120 biggest thing is like, like you describe that sort of 1:11:16.160 --> 1:11:21.439 been a very aggressive style elk hunting, but it's not. 1:11:21.760 --> 1:11:25.000 It's that's almost under selling it. It's like aggressive, but 1:11:25.080 --> 1:11:30.080 it's so authentic. Yep, it's you know. And and I'll 1:11:30.200 --> 1:11:33.720 go back to like second Chester that very first night. Um, 1:11:34.560 --> 1:11:35.960 I think it was the second ball we had called 1:11:35.960 --> 1:11:38.560 in got very the real big bull that got what 1:11:38.720 --> 1:11:42.680 twelve fourteen yards from you bumped or didn't bump he 1:11:42.760 --> 1:11:44.880 you were just getting ready to squeeze. Oh he picked 1:11:44.920 --> 1:11:46.599 me off out the corner of his eye. Never even 1:11:46.640 --> 1:11:49.160 turned his head. But this just goes one of the 1:11:49.240 --> 1:11:50.960 things where like it, I don't know if it drove 1:11:51.040 --> 1:11:52.559 these guys nts. I could tell they were a little 1:11:52.560 --> 1:11:54.960 bit like anxious that we were like lead because that 1:11:55.040 --> 1:11:57.000 bowl had kind of seen us. Then we were aggressive. 1:11:57.000 --> 1:11:58.600 We were going to the next Beigning Bowl, right, We 1:11:58.680 --> 1:12:00.519 had just kind of and I think we had walked 1:12:00.560 --> 1:12:02.400 by maybe a hundred yards of that bull just staring 1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:05.040 at us. But it was one of those things where 1:12:05.080 --> 1:12:07.160 that's my style. We've got another bull, bigling that has 1:12:07.200 --> 1:12:09.400 no idea we live on the earth right now, and 1:12:09.520 --> 1:12:11.760 and this bull has obviously seen us busted. He's a 1:12:11.760 --> 1:12:14.840 little bit nervous. He's kind of went rogue and they 1:12:14.880 --> 1:12:17.479 were like, hey, hey guys, there's that ball right. You know, 1:12:17.520 --> 1:12:20.000 they could see it, and we had seen it already, um, 1:12:20.320 --> 1:12:21.840 you know, before he ran off. And it was one 1:12:21.840 --> 1:12:23.840 of those things where we're so aggressive that I'm willing 1:12:23.920 --> 1:12:26.880 to like forget about the bowl that we just had 1:12:27.000 --> 1:12:28.800 very very close because we're moving on to the next 1:12:28.840 --> 1:12:30.400 bowl that is going to be easier to call in 1:12:30.520 --> 1:12:32.720 because we've just kind of screwed this one up. Oh yeah, 1:12:32.840 --> 1:12:36.200 it's hard for a fellow to walk away from a 1:12:36.280 --> 1:12:39.680 bull that's a hundred ten yards away. That's a big 1:12:39.720 --> 1:12:43.280 old six point, yeah it is. But that's just kind 1:12:43.320 --> 1:12:45.280 of that style where I've already wrote that off, like 1:12:45.360 --> 1:12:48.080 we can try him again in the morning, because we've 1:12:48.160 --> 1:12:50.080 just we've had him at twelve yards, he's seen us 1:12:50.080 --> 1:12:52.600 at eighty. Um we tried to call him back in. 1:12:52.760 --> 1:12:54.800 You know, he did that bark chuckle, which you know 1:12:55.080 --> 1:12:58.040 scared everybody, you know, just a very very aggressive sound like, hey, 1:12:58.600 --> 1:13:01.120 something wasn't right there. I didn't smell you guys, but um, 1:13:01.200 --> 1:13:03.080 I tried to bark, chuckle back and do some of 1:13:03.160 --> 1:13:04.960 my tricks, but he just wasn't gonna pull. You know, 1:13:05.000 --> 1:13:06.720 he knew something was wrong about the bush that he 1:13:06.800 --> 1:13:09.519 came around and seen you know, Steve at and almost 1:13:09.600 --> 1:13:12.320 killing him. Yeah, he was kind of gone. And so 1:13:12.640 --> 1:13:15.040 you know, that aggressive style kind of not only plays 1:13:15.080 --> 1:13:18.200 into too moving in to call a bull in, but 1:13:18.280 --> 1:13:22.880 also like bypassing elk or hey that night, um, I 1:13:22.960 --> 1:13:25.320 had seen that same bowl, I believe, rip across the 1:13:25.400 --> 1:13:28.120 meadow and leave his cows, and we just kind of 1:13:28.240 --> 1:13:31.240 ran at him like we're gonna bump his cows completely 1:13:31.320 --> 1:13:34.280 after you know, out of this area, because after he's 1:13:34.280 --> 1:13:36.000 done running up on the hill and chasing this other 1:13:36.040 --> 1:13:37.800 little bowl away, he's gonna come back to his cows 1:13:37.840 --> 1:13:39.280 and guess what, we're gonna be sitting on him. So 1:13:39.760 --> 1:13:41.519 stuff like that where people are like, oh, I don't 1:13:41.520 --> 1:13:43.800 want to scare this elk because they're so content here 1:13:43.800 --> 1:13:45.680 and they don't know we're here, Like, heck with it, 1:13:45.760 --> 1:13:47.400 let's just let him see us, like I'm gonna wave. 1:13:47.479 --> 1:13:48.800 A matter of fact, I think I was waving my 1:13:48.840 --> 1:13:50.840 beagle too at him, like get the heck out of here, 1:13:51.240 --> 1:13:52.880 and we want you to go right and not left, like, 1:13:52.960 --> 1:13:55.080 don't go back to your bowl, go right, because this 1:13:55.240 --> 1:13:56.720 is the way I'm going to set this plan up. 1:13:58.640 --> 1:14:00.439 And sure enough he came back, but he did a 1:14:00.680 --> 1:14:04.080 big old circle and came back the wrong way. But um, 1:14:04.160 --> 1:14:07.800 it's just stuff like that. Um you know that that 1:14:07.920 --> 1:14:09.360 one day me and Garrety said, Hey, this is gonna 1:14:09.360 --> 1:14:12.160 a little bit aggresive. I'm just gonna run at this bowl, um, 1:14:12.439 --> 1:14:15.160 you know. And and it's just different things that and 1:14:15.240 --> 1:14:18.960 it's tough to explain, like every situation sometimes it depends 1:14:19.000 --> 1:14:21.120 on you know, what can see you, what the terrain 1:14:21.240 --> 1:14:24.920 looks like what the vegetation looks like. But um, that 1:14:25.040 --> 1:14:27.600 bigger bowl we called in um the night that that 1:14:27.720 --> 1:14:30.760 we got to sixteen yards. Uh, he had kind of 1:14:30.800 --> 1:14:32.560 got behind a pile of brush, but he expected to 1:14:32.560 --> 1:14:33.720 see an elk there, and I think he kind of 1:14:33.760 --> 1:14:35.760 got nervous. Hey, I'm really close to you guys, and 1:14:35.800 --> 1:14:38.720 I can't see anything nothing that resembles an elk. He 1:14:38.800 --> 1:14:40.840 kind of froze. He went back to his cows. We 1:14:40.920 --> 1:14:43.760 had some really good terrain. I said, Hey, let's just 1:14:43.880 --> 1:14:45.599 run at this thing. And so I mean, you let 1:14:45.600 --> 1:14:47.960 out a nasty lit ball and you cover thirty more 1:14:48.080 --> 1:14:50.040 yards because that might give you a different lane and 1:14:50.120 --> 1:14:52.519 it might also trigger that bowl. So there's just stuff 1:14:52.560 --> 1:14:54.839 going through your head all the time on every situation. 1:14:54.920 --> 1:14:57.680 But I would think if you can, you know, put 1:14:57.840 --> 1:14:59.960 underlying any word, it's just trying to keep that a 1:15:00.000 --> 1:15:03.400 aggressive style UM on all of our calling, you know, 1:15:03.479 --> 1:15:05.120 and what we did most of the time, like the 1:15:05.160 --> 1:15:07.840 boy yesterday, Like it can be considered aggressive because we 1:15:07.880 --> 1:15:11.720 got really close, but it really was a pretty conservative play. 1:15:11.840 --> 1:15:13.320 You know. We made a big loop on him. We 1:15:13.400 --> 1:15:15.559 got close, but then we went way the hill out 1:15:15.600 --> 1:15:17.719 of the way. To come in with the right wind 1:15:18.280 --> 1:15:22.360 the right elevation, and then didn't call until we sort 1:15:22.360 --> 1:15:24.160 of had an idea of how he would approach, what 1:15:24.280 --> 1:15:27.080 the wind was doing. That was all very very calculated, 1:15:27.160 --> 1:15:28.680 and you know, if we would have went right at 1:15:28.760 --> 1:15:30.679 him like we had kind of mold over, the wind 1:15:30.760 --> 1:15:33.120 was right to come at him from you know, downhill 1:15:33.160 --> 1:15:34.680 and go up to his point. But we also knew 1:15:34.720 --> 1:15:36.880 that by time we did that, the winds probably gonna switch, 1:15:36.920 --> 1:15:39.720 you know, And so we were making very calculated, very 1:15:40.040 --> 1:15:42.800 um you know, conservative decisions to make sure that whatever 1:15:42.920 --> 1:15:45.360 we did we could control every aspect, you know, and 1:15:45.520 --> 1:15:47.080 as long as that bowl didn't move, we were going 1:15:47.160 --> 1:15:49.519 to have a very good shot at him. Um. One 1:15:49.560 --> 1:15:50.800 of the things I think about when I think about 1:15:51.000 --> 1:15:54.320 the aggressiveness is, and this is based a lot of 1:15:54.360 --> 1:15:58.280 my own experiences. UM, I don't care where you go. 1:15:58.560 --> 1:16:00.840 You go the most heavily hunted area, Okay, a lot 1:16:00.920 --> 1:16:03.240 of pressure. But when you're watching elk Off in the distance, 1:16:03.880 --> 1:16:08.439 there's things that are doing. Bulls rake brush like high 1:16:08.479 --> 1:16:13.599 pressured bulls rake brush, yep, high pressured play grab bass. 1:16:14.600 --> 1:16:19.160 They chase each other around, they knock rocks, they bust branches. 1:16:19.760 --> 1:16:22.439 They make a lot of racket. You hear them right, 1:16:23.040 --> 1:16:26.000 It's like they might be very attuned to human pressure 1:16:26.000 --> 1:16:27.240 and they don't want anything to do with people, and 1:16:27.360 --> 1:16:29.080 one whiff of a person is gonna send them. But 1:16:29.160 --> 1:16:34.360 when they think they're safe, they make noise yep. And 1:16:34.400 --> 1:16:36.559 maybe they don't bugle like late in the morning whatever, 1:16:36.680 --> 1:16:40.840 but at night whatever, they might not bugle a lot, 1:16:41.120 --> 1:16:45.920 but they make some noise. But then for some reason, um, 1:16:47.520 --> 1:16:51.519 you get into them and you know they're skittish and 1:16:51.600 --> 1:16:55.000 you're soul full of paranoia that you in some way 1:16:55.120 --> 1:16:59.479 your caution prevents you from creating the atmosphere that you 1:17:00.080 --> 1:17:05.400 personally watch them create around themselves, because you're like you 1:17:05.560 --> 1:17:09.560 you kick a rocket, you know what I'm saying. But 1:17:09.600 --> 1:17:11.720 then when you watch it was like there you can 1:17:11.800 --> 1:17:15.120 hear him a hundred yards away sometimes chasing around when 1:17:15.160 --> 1:17:18.320 the bulls like chasing cows, running other bulls off. They 1:17:18.360 --> 1:17:20.599 might not be bugling, but they're doing all this stuff. 1:17:21.240 --> 1:17:23.160 So to then get in where you get in, like 1:17:23.200 --> 1:17:25.040 you get into his bedroom, you watch him going you 1:17:25.120 --> 1:17:27.760 know where he's betted. He bugles a little bit beds down. 1:17:27.920 --> 1:17:30.240 It's like you know where he's at and then you're 1:17:30.240 --> 1:17:35.559 gonna like sort of quietly and cautiously mimic another bull 1:17:35.800 --> 1:17:39.400 encroaching on his space. But if you watch that happen, 1:17:39.439 --> 1:17:42.120 he's not doing it quietly and cautiously. I mean he's 1:17:42.120 --> 1:17:46.040 in there banging ship around raak and brush. Yeah, so 1:17:46.120 --> 1:17:48.800 you're kind of like you're you're sort of like it's 1:17:48.800 --> 1:17:51.040 not that you're like you're not being more aggressive than LK. 1:17:51.080 --> 1:17:52.680 You're sort of acting like what a bull X like 1:17:53.280 --> 1:17:56.040 when he's pissed. Ye, when he's like confronting another bull, 1:17:56.080 --> 1:17:58.400 he's doing ship. Yeah. The only time I try to 1:17:58.479 --> 1:18:01.240 reserve like any of that he's making is trying to 1:18:01.320 --> 1:18:03.559 just get to my setup because it's a little bit 1:18:03.600 --> 1:18:05.679 of element of surprise. Like I'll get in really quiet 1:18:05.680 --> 1:18:07.400 and then like, oh you know that to that boys, 1:18:07.479 --> 1:18:10.080 Oh ship, there's a bull right here that quick, Like 1:18:10.120 --> 1:18:12.040 I have no other option but to go check him out, 1:18:12.320 --> 1:18:14.360 you know, or lose my cows um, you know, but 1:18:14.479 --> 1:18:17.160 packing the bulls out like there's I got to learn 1:18:17.200 --> 1:18:19.439 really quick that. You know, my bulls wasn't a monster. 1:18:19.560 --> 1:18:21.960 But you can't walk there's no clear lane. I mean, 1:18:22.080 --> 1:18:23.560 just to carry that with the horns. I mean that 1:18:23.600 --> 1:18:27.280 elk's got to try to navigate. He's knocking brush every step. Um, 1:18:27.320 --> 1:18:28.680 you know, we're rolling rocks, but as soon as we 1:18:28.760 --> 1:18:31.840 start to call, I'm not. I'm not opposed to you know, 1:18:31.960 --> 1:18:34.200 sticks break and rocks rolling. Matter of fact, in both 1:18:34.240 --> 1:18:36.639 of my setups, I ended up being turned a little 1:18:36.680 --> 1:18:39.120 bit wrong and had to turn myself. I don't give 1:18:39.160 --> 1:18:41.160 a crap about you know, rolling a rock or kicking 1:18:41.160 --> 1:18:43.360 a rock as I moved, Like, all of that's okay. 1:18:43.439 --> 1:18:45.639 The only if they're really close, i'd maybe be concerned 1:18:45.680 --> 1:18:48.200 with him like pin pointing exactly where I am, or 1:18:48.280 --> 1:18:51.519 like drawing to that noise of a rock rolling. But um, 1:18:51.680 --> 1:18:52.960 you know, they kind of already know where we're at 1:18:52.960 --> 1:18:56.160 anyways from our calls. Like they're very they're their Doppler system, 1:18:56.560 --> 1:19:00.040 their their sense of like specific location of where that 1:19:00.160 --> 1:19:03.680 sound is, like you know, very very good. Um, they 1:19:03.760 --> 1:19:06.160 know exactly what tree you should be sitting behind based 1:19:06.200 --> 1:19:08.040 on where that veagle or that cow call came from. 1:19:08.240 --> 1:19:12.160 One of the things I saw from Yanni was that 1:19:12.760 --> 1:19:15.160 if we're calling, had a bull hanging up seventy eight 1:19:15.320 --> 1:19:17.479 yards out kind of walking trying to figure out why 1:19:17.520 --> 1:19:20.600 I can't see anything is dropping off a roll in 1:19:20.680 --> 1:19:23.920 the hill. So the shooters set up, but Yannie drops 1:19:23.960 --> 1:19:27.680 off where he's beyond down in a little hole or 1:19:27.760 --> 1:19:29.800 beyond something that can't be seen, and he'd put a 1:19:29.880 --> 1:19:33.920 pair of you know, pull on some gloves, yep, and 1:19:34.080 --> 1:19:38.160 rake brush because it's funny because the bull you're watching 1:19:38.479 --> 1:19:41.120 and brush and then and that makes him and then 1:19:41.200 --> 1:19:44.120 he's like, you know, wanting to come because he can't confirm. 1:19:45.000 --> 1:19:47.000 That makes him need to change position because he can't 1:19:47.040 --> 1:19:49.439 confirm where it that's coming from exactly. And that felt 1:19:49.439 --> 1:19:51.200 to me like at first, like che's man, I'll be 1:19:51.280 --> 1:19:57.120 doing that, dude. Yeah, I'm like, well he's doing it. Yeah. 1:19:57.240 --> 1:20:00.519 And on those situations we didn't that where I was 1:20:00.560 --> 1:20:02.120 mentioned like we don't have to go to progression two 1:20:02.240 --> 1:20:04.639 or three and do any of this stuff. Um, but yeah, 1:20:04.680 --> 1:20:06.479 what is progression two or three? So like that, that 1:20:06.640 --> 1:20:08.559 is a lot of times these bowls will hold up, 1:20:08.600 --> 1:20:10.400 which I try to prevent from that set up. But 1:20:10.439 --> 1:20:11.840 we can set up on a roll of a hill 1:20:12.120 --> 1:20:14.439 or a hard edge like on your bowl, a hard 1:20:14.560 --> 1:20:17.080 edge of brush versus open Like if you can set 1:20:17.160 --> 1:20:19.960 up to to shoot that edge, then you don't get 1:20:19.960 --> 1:20:21.599 a lot of hang ups. But that bowl the way 1:20:21.640 --> 1:20:24.240 it works, you know, and and while you know in 1:20:24.280 --> 1:20:26.840 the wild, if we're not involved, is that bowl is 1:20:27.040 --> 1:20:29.160 is he's being expects at other bowl to come a 1:20:29.280 --> 1:20:32.280 certain distance um or if we're actually gonna get him 1:20:32.280 --> 1:20:34.560 to commit. As soon as he gets to that vegetation 1:20:34.640 --> 1:20:36.680 break or that roll in the hill and and can 1:20:36.760 --> 1:20:39.360 see where that cow or that bowl, whatever is calling 1:20:39.439 --> 1:20:42.040 to him should be, he's done. Like he's not going 1:20:42.080 --> 1:20:44.840 to commit that open space of a hundred yards or 1:20:44.960 --> 1:20:47.240 in in you know Yanni's case seven or eighty, because 1:20:47.240 --> 1:20:49.040 he's now hung up. He's not gonna come like look 1:20:49.120 --> 1:20:51.280 behind the tree. Yeah, he's done. And so that's why 1:20:51.320 --> 1:20:53.280 we try to set our shooters up to to prevent 1:20:53.320 --> 1:20:56.320 all that. But no progression two is that fall back, 1:20:56.479 --> 1:20:58.400 Like if we have hung up, we've got him to 1:20:58.439 --> 1:21:00.320 commit to so far, but he's like he's drawn an 1:21:00.360 --> 1:21:03.000 imaginary line and I'm not coming past this. A lot 1:21:03.040 --> 1:21:05.360 of times we will start to do those fade you know, 1:21:05.439 --> 1:21:08.160 fade vehicle back, rake brush, but then once we get 1:21:08.160 --> 1:21:10.280 to a certain distance, will kind of do like the recharge. 1:21:10.720 --> 1:21:13.519 We will come back at him biggling like we're coming again, 1:21:13.560 --> 1:21:15.120 We're coming to get you and maybe get him to 1:21:15.200 --> 1:21:27.400 pull you know, that extra distance. We were in an 1:21:27.479 --> 1:21:29.360 area where the Forest Service, for I don't know what 1:21:29.439 --> 1:21:31.559 the hell I was asking Seth about this. I don't 1:21:31.600 --> 1:21:34.320 know what the motivation was. Maybe probably just wildlife work 1:21:34.400 --> 1:21:38.519 Right had done some like beautiful thinning wildlife, you know, 1:21:39.120 --> 1:21:41.559 overall forest health or timber quality. I don't I don't 1:21:41.560 --> 1:21:43.439 know what it was for, but it was like like 1:21:43.560 --> 1:21:46.160 they created like a beautiful sort of like grassland savannah. 1:21:46.360 --> 1:21:49.160 It looked like they had maybe prescribed burn that area 1:21:49.240 --> 1:21:52.479 too at some point in time. Freaking gorgeous man. Yeah, 1:21:52.840 --> 1:21:55.040 for like great turkey elk and there, elk, we're in there. 1:21:55.760 --> 1:21:58.960 There's some water there too, which obviously makes it all possible. 1:21:59.439 --> 1:22:03.600 But beauty, Hilaria. But even before we started hunting, you 1:22:03.800 --> 1:22:10.920 were talking about not liking that from a calling perspective, 1:22:11.200 --> 1:22:14.240 very very difficult because you could see three yards in 1:22:14.320 --> 1:22:18.240 every direction. You were like trying to get the situation 1:22:18.479 --> 1:22:24.479 where um they had to come in and couldn't really 1:22:25.400 --> 1:22:28.720 ascertain what was going on until they got ys And 1:22:28.800 --> 1:22:31.240 we want to have him very close and and you 1:22:31.360 --> 1:22:36.479 pull that off because we had like very close encounters. Ye. Yeah, 1:22:36.520 --> 1:22:38.760 and that's just idea, Like if you can meet him 1:22:38.800 --> 1:22:40.479 at the edges, is where we want to meet you, 1:22:40.760 --> 1:22:42.240 not out in the middle of a you know, something 1:22:42.320 --> 1:22:45.040 that's very consistent both you know, whether it's a steep slope, 1:22:45.080 --> 1:22:46.519 you don't want to be on a consistent step slope. 1:22:46.520 --> 1:22:47.960 You don't want to be on a consistent flat slope. 1:22:47.960 --> 1:22:49.840 You don't want to be on a consistent like vegetation. 1:22:50.680 --> 1:22:52.679 Because even if you pile yourself in a big pile 1:22:52.760 --> 1:22:56.800 of brush, um there there's no there's no like definitive 1:22:56.880 --> 1:22:58.479 line he needs to get to. So it's very hard 1:22:58.520 --> 1:23:00.760 as a hunter to know where to set up um 1:23:01.040 --> 1:23:03.599 or you know, the heavy brush also kind of screws 1:23:03.640 --> 1:23:05.720 up your shooting angles where you may give yourself one 1:23:05.800 --> 1:23:07.960 or two. Yeah, we had we had one setup. The 1:23:08.320 --> 1:23:10.400 only set up we had that made me like not nervous, 1:23:10.479 --> 1:23:13.760 but we got it was kind of we were kind 1:23:13.760 --> 1:23:15.880 of forced into the situation. But we got a place 1:23:15.920 --> 1:23:20.360 where there was in most respects zero visibility, one shooting lane, 1:23:20.479 --> 1:23:23.719 but a very well defined trail. And for a minute, 1:23:23.760 --> 1:23:25.799 I thought, this ball is going to come down this trail. 1:23:26.720 --> 1:23:28.400 The brush was starts. He was not gonna see me. 1:23:29.040 --> 1:23:30.600 The wind was good, but he was gonna be for 1:23:30.720 --> 1:23:32.840 me to you when he got there under ten yards, 1:23:33.120 --> 1:23:36.679 and I remember being like, this is a little tight. Yeah, 1:23:36.960 --> 1:23:39.320 that was. That was the only even when I even 1:23:39.400 --> 1:23:41.000 walked down on and you saw, I had to walk 1:23:41.120 --> 1:23:45.639 downhill and break one stick because that was my one 1:23:45.680 --> 1:23:48.400 place to shoot. Snapped one stick out of the way, 1:23:48.400 --> 1:23:50.840 and then back back up, thinking I'm basically gonna stick 1:23:50.920 --> 1:23:55.599 the broadhead against his flame if he kept coming though. Yeah, 1:23:56.040 --> 1:23:58.200 that bowl, he did something a little interesting. He he 1:23:58.479 --> 1:23:59.680 I don't know if he's trying to get the wind 1:23:59.720 --> 1:24:01.519 on us or he wouldn't commit to come down, Charil. 1:24:01.600 --> 1:24:04.840 That was the one scenario where I started behind you calling, 1:24:05.200 --> 1:24:07.760 ended up going down below you calling, and by time 1:24:07.840 --> 1:24:09.880 we were done, I was in the shooting lane calling 1:24:10.479 --> 1:24:11.960 because he did a big circle and I was trying 1:24:12.000 --> 1:24:13.920 to pull him through, you know, keep you between me 1:24:14.040 --> 1:24:16.560 and that bowl the whole time, and ultimately he just 1:24:16.960 --> 1:24:19.160 he walked the whole top and we we just reset 1:24:19.240 --> 1:24:22.040 up on that one in a better location. Um, because 1:24:22.080 --> 1:24:24.200 that bowl didn't for some reason, that was the one 1:24:24.240 --> 1:24:27.160 that didn't come, just like boiling in um how he 1:24:27.240 --> 1:24:29.160 had drawn it up. So that was the one recircled 1:24:29.160 --> 1:24:31.400 and then just reset up and worked really really well. 1:24:31.600 --> 1:24:33.600 Do you know the one there's one in counter and 1:24:33.720 --> 1:24:35.680 I still haven't got your feelings on to find out 1:24:35.720 --> 1:24:36.960 what you were thinking. It was one where the other 1:24:37.080 --> 1:24:38.960 hunter was kind of working them too, but that big 1:24:39.080 --> 1:24:41.880 six point that had the cows on that open hillside, 1:24:43.200 --> 1:24:46.200 you were like reticent, and I know I was reticent 1:24:46.280 --> 1:24:49.000 about not wanting to get in on the other hunter's groove, 1:24:49.120 --> 1:24:52.800 but you were kind of also reticent about something about 1:24:52.880 --> 1:24:56.240 the So he was in the wide open, him and 1:24:56.280 --> 1:24:57.760 his cows were in the wide open. We had no 1:24:57.960 --> 1:25:01.120 way we would have had to. We couldn't go towards him. 1:25:01.160 --> 1:25:03.559 We couldn't go like towards him into the right. Our 1:25:03.640 --> 1:25:06.559 only play would have we would have had to back 1:25:06.600 --> 1:25:09.559 out and go way around him. And you know, you're 1:25:09.600 --> 1:25:12.080 just looking at the time you're looking at you know, 1:25:12.160 --> 1:25:14.240 we've spent some time messing with him. I just it 1:25:14.320 --> 1:25:16.360 was one of those things where whether it's gut or not, Yeah, 1:25:16.479 --> 1:25:18.479 maybe we could have ran up there and maybe in 1:25:18.520 --> 1:25:20.400 an area where there weren't so many elk. We would 1:25:20.400 --> 1:25:22.200 have if that was our only play we would have 1:25:22.240 --> 1:25:23.720 tried it, we would have backed in, but we would 1:25:23.760 --> 1:25:25.720 have had to come through the same route that the 1:25:25.760 --> 1:25:28.920 other color was, you know, other hunter was going through. Uh, 1:25:29.000 --> 1:25:30.200 and then we would had to try to beat him 1:25:30.280 --> 1:25:31.720 up the hill for that wind to change. So there 1:25:31.800 --> 1:25:34.080 was just a lot going on on that one where 1:25:34.320 --> 1:25:36.680 it just didn't seem like the odds were kind of 1:25:36.720 --> 1:25:39.160 in our favor if we were to approach that. You know, 1:25:39.680 --> 1:25:41.519 we tried it for a little bit, thinking that I 1:25:41.600 --> 1:25:43.479 think I had ranged you know, used the range finder 1:25:43.520 --> 1:25:47.360 on it means about four h yards away, which isn't undoable. Um. 1:25:47.520 --> 1:25:50.080 We just that was the same situation where he wasn't 1:25:50.080 --> 1:25:51.880 paying any attention to the other color. He would look 1:25:51.920 --> 1:25:54.680 at us every time I threw everything at him, you know, 1:25:54.760 --> 1:25:57.439 lip balls, you know, as much cow call as as 1:25:57.520 --> 1:25:59.320 I could give him, you know, kind of everything in 1:25:59.400 --> 1:26:01.240 my arsenal, and he just really wasn't gonna budge and 1:26:01.360 --> 1:26:03.680 leave his cows. Um. So that was that was one 1:26:03.720 --> 1:26:05.200 of those ones We're gonna have to bring it all 1:26:05.240 --> 1:26:07.519 the way to him, and it was just kind of like, man, 1:26:07.560 --> 1:26:11.000 I don't know what the right approaches, and so we 1:26:11.320 --> 1:26:12.920 just kind of looked at him for a while, and 1:26:13.040 --> 1:26:15.640 in a different way, you talk a lot about that 1:26:15.800 --> 1:26:18.400 you don't really know what you're gonna do. Oh yeah, 1:26:18.400 --> 1:26:20.639 I just I'm flying by the seat of my pants 1:26:20.680 --> 1:26:22.880 half the time, just kind of what what I feel. 1:26:23.080 --> 1:26:26.560 But if you like imagine that you I feel that 1:26:26.680 --> 1:26:29.360 that's not true. You know, you're flying bout some of 1:26:29.400 --> 1:26:30.880 your pants. But like talk a little bit like what 1:26:30.960 --> 1:26:33.800 do you what are the things that you like? Even 1:26:33.800 --> 1:26:35.880 though it's a there's a computation going on in your 1:26:35.920 --> 1:26:38.840 head and maybe you don't understand it the same way. Well, 1:26:38.920 --> 1:26:42.240 when you're going about daily life, Uh, you'll get a 1:26:42.320 --> 1:26:45.440 feeling that I have a feeling that person is agitated. 1:26:46.000 --> 1:26:50.519 Why I don't know, just something about yeah, and then 1:26:50.600 --> 1:26:52.080 you I don't know why. I just like the alarm 1:26:52.160 --> 1:26:55.080 went off of my head that this person is like agitated. Um, 1:26:55.560 --> 1:26:57.479 And it's hard to art later articulate what it was 1:26:57.560 --> 1:26:59.840 that was going on. So if you had to kind 1:26:59.880 --> 1:27:03.360 of get into your own mind and get into, um, 1:27:04.840 --> 1:27:11.000 what is being computated in your head about the animal's mood, 1:27:11.760 --> 1:27:13.600 you know, like take a stab at it, like like 1:27:13.720 --> 1:27:16.080 what do you what are you kind of basing on. 1:27:16.760 --> 1:27:19.400 So we're when you're weighing his when you're weighing his 1:27:19.520 --> 1:27:22.240 opinions and weighing his mood. I'm gonna get all kinds 1:27:22.280 --> 1:27:23.680 of help for this, but I'm gonna start off by 1:27:23.760 --> 1:27:27.200 prefacing it with I don't play into like this el 1:27:27.720 --> 1:27:31.240 is saying something specific with this call. I I don't 1:27:31.400 --> 1:27:34.439 buy into chuckles mean we're rounding up cows. I don't 1:27:34.520 --> 1:27:37.559 believe that this, this bigle here is a bowl trying 1:27:37.600 --> 1:27:39.479 to round his cows up. I don't believe that this. 1:27:40.160 --> 1:27:41.920 You know, there's a few things I know, like grunts 1:27:42.560 --> 1:27:45.000 or or alarm barks means that he's just either seen 1:27:45.080 --> 1:27:46.479 you or heard you and can't figure out what the 1:27:46.520 --> 1:27:49.120 heck you are. You know, there there are certain things, um, 1:27:49.280 --> 1:27:51.559 but you know, I've I've heard bowls chuckling that are 1:27:51.600 --> 1:27:53.360 just mad at the other bowl. So I don't play 1:27:53.400 --> 1:27:55.920 off of that. I I play more off of temperament. 1:27:56.880 --> 1:27:59.320 And there's a lot of testing um that goes into that, 1:27:59.360 --> 1:28:02.040 kind of like throwing shan lures like spinner you know, bottom, 1:28:02.080 --> 1:28:04.760 you know, jig, you know, top, top, bait, whatever, just 1:28:04.880 --> 1:28:07.200 trying to see what's gonna work. And so there are 1:28:07.680 --> 1:28:10.320 I do it on everything even from my location bugles, Um, 1:28:10.520 --> 1:28:13.759 you know, all throw the high note out first, ann answer, 1:28:13.880 --> 1:28:15.200 all right, I'm gonna go to like a low mid 1:28:15.280 --> 1:28:17.479 note didn't answer. Now, if I really feel that there's 1:28:17.479 --> 1:28:18.760 an elk there, I'm gonna throw a lip ball at 1:28:18.840 --> 1:28:20.280 him just to see if he's going to answer that. 1:28:21.080 --> 1:28:22.800 And I started to pick up on that, you're sort 1:28:22.840 --> 1:28:26.760 of like your locator sequence yea, did yeah, did the 1:28:26.800 --> 1:28:29.560 high one work yes or no? Did the the the 1:28:29.680 --> 1:28:32.960 the low note kind of mid note work yes or no? Almost? 1:28:33.080 --> 1:28:34.680 And then you're going to like a lip ball if 1:28:34.720 --> 1:28:37.559 I think there's an elk there. Um, So we kind 1:28:37.600 --> 1:28:39.320 of run through progressions. Then I kind of used that 1:28:39.439 --> 1:28:42.559 all the way through um the scenario. And and as 1:28:42.600 --> 1:28:44.080 we've set up a lot on this hunt, I was 1:28:44.120 --> 1:28:45.519 able to see a lot of what was going on 1:28:45.760 --> 1:28:48.479 or get very good audio feedback from the elk, you know, 1:28:48.920 --> 1:28:52.680 through their answers. And so I would say, if you 1:28:52.720 --> 1:28:54.439 look at it, like what's in my bag at tricks 1:28:54.479 --> 1:28:56.679 for cal calls, I've got you know, the ss wine, 1:28:56.680 --> 1:28:59.160 which I did a lot just the real right yeah, 1:29:00.200 --> 1:29:02.759 you know, kind of wavy, kind of not your traditional calmu. 1:29:03.280 --> 1:29:05.320 We did some calf calling just to kind of add 1:29:05.400 --> 1:29:08.599 some social you know, volume to the situation, like there's 1:29:08.640 --> 1:29:10.519 more elk here than just the cow. We did some 1:29:10.680 --> 1:29:14.880 just normal calmuns. Yeah yeah, you know, and then we 1:29:14.960 --> 1:29:17.519 did some buzzing there were The buzzing is kind of 1:29:17.600 --> 1:29:22.040 always my last chance, especially if you've got multiple bowls coming, 1:29:22.240 --> 1:29:24.479 or a bowl that's just kind of not really hung up, 1:29:24.520 --> 1:29:26.120 but we just can't get him the pool. I would 1:29:26.479 --> 1:29:28.840 try to use that to add some excitement. Um, you know, 1:29:28.920 --> 1:29:31.439 that cow really needs some you know, somebody needs to 1:29:31.439 --> 1:29:33.559 come check on her. And so if you look at 1:29:33.600 --> 1:29:35.720 like my cal call bucket, I've got those. I I 1:29:35.800 --> 1:29:37.519 stick with that estrus wine a lot and see how 1:29:37.600 --> 1:29:41.200 they react. Um and and even in our bigle situations, 1:29:42.120 --> 1:29:43.840 I feel like I need to throw a cow call 1:29:43.960 --> 1:29:48.080 in at some point. Uh there. Now, I may be 1:29:48.120 --> 1:29:50.160 a hypocrite because there might have been some this this 1:29:50.320 --> 1:29:52.720 time where it was just straight bugling, but you need 1:29:52.800 --> 1:29:54.200 you can't think of any time when you did. You 1:29:54.280 --> 1:29:57.400 need to give that bowl some incentive to come over, 1:29:57.640 --> 1:29:59.840 like unless he just wants to come fight or sparred, 1:30:00.000 --> 1:30:02.799 because he wants to, you know, test out how powerful 1:30:02.800 --> 1:30:05.120 he is or what his abilities are you're not giving 1:30:05.200 --> 1:30:07.439 that bowl any reason to come, like, check you out. 1:30:07.479 --> 1:30:09.720 If you're just a bull randomly vehgling and you're not 1:30:09.840 --> 1:30:12.920 presenting him with something he's losing. Yeah, he's just well, 1:30:13.360 --> 1:30:14.880 we can just sit here and bigle back and forth. 1:30:14.920 --> 1:30:16.400 There's nothing for me to come check out over there 1:30:16.400 --> 1:30:18.479 and see if I can still hear cow. So I 1:30:18.520 --> 1:30:20.840 always try to throw some mix of caw calls in 1:30:21.040 --> 1:30:23.600 and a lot of times, um, if I'm able to 1:30:23.680 --> 1:30:27.120 get in close and quiet enough, well we'll maybe reserve 1:30:27.200 --> 1:30:29.160 that cal call for later. Like I want my very 1:30:29.240 --> 1:30:31.599 first vehicle in my head. If I can just piss 1:30:31.640 --> 1:30:34.840 this bowl off and startle him and be like, oh shoot, 1:30:34.960 --> 1:30:37.479 somebody's right on me, you know, and they're here and 1:30:37.520 --> 1:30:39.479 I've got cows or whatnot, then that I need to 1:30:39.520 --> 1:30:40.880 go defend that. So a lot of times that will 1:30:40.920 --> 1:30:43.479 kind of get it started. Um. On the bagle side, 1:30:43.560 --> 1:30:46.600 it's really just um, I use the lip ball is 1:30:46.920 --> 1:30:50.120 an aggressive sound. You know, a lot of times, I 1:30:50.160 --> 1:30:51.800 don't know how many times this trip I had to 1:30:51.880 --> 1:30:53.920 use the lip ball. If a bull is interested to 1:30:54.000 --> 1:30:57.240 a point that maybe he gets the sixty or seventy, 1:30:57.320 --> 1:30:59.840 and I've seen him turn like, oh, shoot, he's losing 1:31:00.040 --> 1:31:02.360 trist Like I hammering with the lip ball within like 1:31:02.400 --> 1:31:05.439 the first step of him turning, Um, that's my like 1:31:05.600 --> 1:31:08.200 get your ass back here, call um, we're not done yet. 1:31:08.600 --> 1:31:10.519 And so in my head, like if I ever see 1:31:10.560 --> 1:31:14.120 a bowl turn like, that's instantly a lip ball situation. Um. 1:31:14.640 --> 1:31:19.120 And and a lot of times I'll add very temperamental 1:31:19.200 --> 1:31:22.600 like emotional grunts to my ending of that, like the 1:31:22.720 --> 1:31:24.800 first one maybe a little lighter second, and then like 1:31:24.840 --> 1:31:26.920 the third one, I'm really hammering on the grunts, like 1:31:29.360 --> 1:31:33.160 you know, trying to like add some intensity into those grunts, 1:31:33.200 --> 1:31:35.280 even like everything I'm doing is got like a little 1:31:35.320 --> 1:31:38.120 bit more purpose on. I'll like, hey, get your ass 1:31:38.160 --> 1:31:42.720 back here. But then there's times where you're just to scream, um. 1:31:42.760 --> 1:31:44.400 You know, you're just screaming at the bowl really short 1:31:44.479 --> 1:31:47.280 two to three second vehicles, like you're really if he's 1:31:47.320 --> 1:31:50.720 eating those up, I'll stay with those um. And then 1:31:50.760 --> 1:31:53.400 there's a lot of like intricate sounds, especially that first 1:31:53.520 --> 1:31:56.200 night I know I was using like the bigger bowl 1:31:56.240 --> 1:31:58.040 that came in was breathing heavy. I could hear him 1:31:58.040 --> 1:31:59.920 at like fifty or sixty, and so I was kind 1:32:00.040 --> 1:32:03.840 kind of breathing across my read, which, like I said, 1:32:03.920 --> 1:32:07.000 I want to maintain some humility here. But there are 1:32:07.080 --> 1:32:08.960 guys that couldn't figure out how to even make that 1:32:09.080 --> 1:32:11.400 sound on a read, you know, or a diaphragm, where 1:32:11.439 --> 1:32:13.560 if I, if you have the ability, I I just 1:32:13.720 --> 1:32:15.479 matched him and that's where that mimicry came. And he 1:32:15.600 --> 1:32:17.960 was breathing heavy, like well, I'm gonna breathe heavy over 1:32:18.040 --> 1:32:19.599 top of the red and it's just a real slight 1:32:19.680 --> 1:32:23.519 subtle sound, but deep breaths um, you know, really really 1:32:23.680 --> 1:32:26.599 hollow chuckles that all throw in a lot of times, 1:32:26.640 --> 1:32:29.519 I've observed when a bull rakes a tree, we're doing 1:32:29.520 --> 1:32:31.280 a lot of raking. Um, you know, I'm trying to. 1:32:31.560 --> 1:32:32.920 Of course, I was a dummy most of the time, 1:32:32.960 --> 1:32:34.360 set up calling for you, and I'd sit next to 1:32:34.360 --> 1:32:36.439 the tree with no limbs. I'm like, well, yeah, I 1:32:36.479 --> 1:32:38.479 don't got any I don't have any trees to rake, 1:32:39.040 --> 1:32:40.880 but I'll stomp the ground or whatnot or break a 1:32:40.920 --> 1:32:43.960 few limbs. But just adding a lot of times a 1:32:44.000 --> 1:32:46.559 bull or break a tree, you know, maybe forty five 1:32:46.600 --> 1:32:48.479 seconds a minute, two minutes. And he comes out of 1:32:48.520 --> 1:32:51.000 that with a chuckle, or a bagle like he come, 1:32:51.280 --> 1:32:55.160 and so it's just trying to put everything together exactly 1:32:55.320 --> 1:32:57.560 how how I've seen it done in the woods. So 1:32:57.800 --> 1:32:59.519 all right, we break a tree. I picked up my 1:32:59.560 --> 1:33:02.320 beagle to when I give like a hollow chuckle y um, 1:33:02.400 --> 1:33:03.920 same thing. You know, there were times when you were 1:33:03.960 --> 1:33:05.720 beating on a tree when when I was calling, I 1:33:05.720 --> 1:33:07.519 would let you just finish your aching and I would 1:33:07.560 --> 1:33:09.800 do a chuckle just to kind of keep that that 1:33:09.920 --> 1:33:14.880 scenario as realistic as possible. Um. But yeah, a little intricacies. 1:33:15.760 --> 1:33:17.479 I don't know if I explained it well kind of 1:33:17.560 --> 1:33:19.559 why I do what I do, but it's it's also 1:33:19.680 --> 1:33:23.439 it's a progression of well, let's try, you know, our 1:33:23.520 --> 1:33:26.800 our normal challenge bagle, and then we'll try a lip 1:33:26.840 --> 1:33:28.360 ball and then we'll try and just kind of see 1:33:28.400 --> 1:33:30.960 what's working on that specific oak. I had a guy 1:33:31.040 --> 1:33:35.320 I'm like email friends with right in one day wrote 1:33:35.320 --> 1:33:38.400 me a letter explaining that he was worked up, like 1:33:38.720 --> 1:33:41.000 kind of worked up about Phelps game calls. He says, 1:33:41.479 --> 1:33:46.800 everybody's not Jason Phelps. So people that want to like 1:33:47.200 --> 1:33:48.960 do like Jason Phelps, but they don't have like the 1:33:49.080 --> 1:33:51.320 skill he has has resulted in a lot of guys 1:33:51.439 --> 1:33:54.200 running around trying to act like egg roller callers, but 1:33:54.280 --> 1:33:57.320 they just have no idea what they're doing. I'm blamed 1:33:57.360 --> 1:33:59.679 for like ruining the olkret by a lot of people, 1:33:59.720 --> 1:34:02.719 like everybody in those damn felps tubes and know nothing 1:34:02.760 --> 1:34:05.720 beagles anymore and nothing works, And it's all you guys, 1:34:05.880 --> 1:34:08.040 damn fault for promoting biggling. You know, a lot of 1:34:08.080 --> 1:34:10.000 guys think that you should just walk in and calcol 1:34:10.080 --> 1:34:13.360 i guess um, but yeah, what's what's your take on that? 1:34:15.160 --> 1:34:19.360 If done wrong and you and if you're educating the elk, 1:34:20.600 --> 1:34:22.599 it could be very detrimental to just walk I mean, 1:34:22.640 --> 1:34:26.960 if they associate your bugle with they smell or being seen, 1:34:28.320 --> 1:34:30.599 a can screw up areas and and that bowl will 1:34:30.640 --> 1:34:32.400 become educated. You know. I think you can get away 1:34:32.400 --> 1:34:34.040 with it once and maybe kill him the second time. 1:34:34.080 --> 1:34:36.960 But if he if he experiences like you're sent and 1:34:37.840 --> 1:34:40.720 being called in all you know multiple times, that bowl 1:34:40.720 --> 1:34:42.559 is gonna be very very hard to kill there there. 1:34:43.040 --> 1:34:45.160 You know, they might not be the smartest critter, especially 1:34:45.200 --> 1:34:46.760 during the rep, but they're smart enough not to get 1:34:46.880 --> 1:34:48.840 killed by you. Um, you know, and you think that 1:34:48.920 --> 1:34:51.280 that would move over even to it even like that 1:34:51.400 --> 1:34:53.960 a that a good caller would have a hard time. Yeah, 1:34:54.040 --> 1:34:56.040 I mean we I feel that if you're a good 1:34:56.120 --> 1:34:58.479 caller and can sound like elk, you know, like a 1:34:58.520 --> 1:35:00.720 real elk as much as possib bowl, then then it 1:35:01.320 --> 1:35:05.040 maybe helps you get over that that hump of I'm 1:35:05.080 --> 1:35:07.040 a very distinct color. I can maybe fool him once 1:35:07.120 --> 1:35:09.120 but maybe never again. Versus if you sound like a 1:35:09.200 --> 1:35:11.080 real elk, what more can you do? Like, how is 1:35:11.120 --> 1:35:12.639 he going to now be able to tell that you're 1:35:12.680 --> 1:35:14.639 a person versus a real elk if you're that good. 1:35:15.439 --> 1:35:17.080 And so that's why I don't think you need to 1:35:17.080 --> 1:35:20.360 be a great caller, but there I I also believe 1:35:20.400 --> 1:35:24.479 that it can, you know, help you out in the woods. Dude, listen, 1:35:25.200 --> 1:35:28.839 I think that being like a good caller like yourself, 1:35:29.040 --> 1:35:37.719 it's pretty advantageous. It was. It was amazing to watch man. Thanks, 1:35:37.880 --> 1:35:43.160 it was amazing to watch. Yeah, And that's where like 1:35:43.280 --> 1:35:47.400 I'm so I'm so like concerned, And we asked the 1:35:47.439 --> 1:35:49.200 hiders a lot, like I think I had a conversation 1:35:49.280 --> 1:35:51.320 with Seth like, you don't have to tell me I'm 1:35:51.360 --> 1:35:54.320 good just because I'm asking you. But I want to 1:35:54.360 --> 1:35:55.920 know for myself because if I can get better, I 1:35:55.960 --> 1:35:57.720 want to know on the bowl that that I was 1:35:57.760 --> 1:36:00.800 able to take yesterday. Um, I think they had, you know, 1:36:00.800 --> 1:36:02.519 a hundred yards behind me. They were telling us like 1:36:02.600 --> 1:36:04.400 they could tell, you know, when I vehicle, they could 1:36:04.400 --> 1:36:06.000 tell when you ve agle. But then I'm like, well, 1:36:06.040 --> 1:36:07.800 that's fine if you know who I am, but or 1:36:07.880 --> 1:36:11.160 which one I was? But was it accurate? Like was 1:36:11.240 --> 1:36:13.840 there something in my bugle that I can work on? 1:36:14.400 --> 1:36:16.960 And that's just like my pursuit of perfection And they 1:36:17.040 --> 1:36:19.080 probably got some feedback on that, but well, there there 1:36:19.160 --> 1:36:21.040 was that one time where we kind of got separated 1:36:21.080 --> 1:36:24.320 from you guys and we're going off that hill. There 1:36:24.400 --> 1:36:26.840 was elk Buglan everywhere. I was like, I don't know 1:36:26.960 --> 1:36:29.800 which one is. Jason. It's like, I hope we're not 1:36:29.920 --> 1:36:34.519 screwing something offer. But in that same setup, that's that 1:36:35.320 --> 1:36:38.000 set up that you guys didn't kill that big bowl. 1:36:38.800 --> 1:36:42.920 We were quote unquote hiding and Sam was actually hiding, 1:36:44.320 --> 1:36:47.120 but we're I was able to watch that bowl leaving 1:36:47.200 --> 1:36:49.720 with his cows. And I don't know if it was 1:36:49.840 --> 1:36:53.760 when you ran at him or lip bald, but he 1:36:53.960 --> 1:36:58.360 was leaving with his cows, and I saw him spin 1:36:58.479 --> 1:37:03.840 on a dime and go right back to the timberline. 1:37:03.880 --> 1:37:08.720 That's because I ripped a bugle, which was cool to 1:37:08.800 --> 1:37:11.559 see because that was like, obviously you he was leaving, 1:37:12.040 --> 1:37:14.800 but he heard something that was like whoa, I do 1:37:15.040 --> 1:37:18.439 not like this turn on a dime and went right 1:37:18.479 --> 1:37:20.519 back to that tree. Yeah, And so like in that situation, 1:37:20.560 --> 1:37:22.640 I guess you canna elaborate, maybe spend. Like in that one, 1:37:22.680 --> 1:37:24.640 I'm thinking, this bull's got cows and you could hear him, 1:37:24.680 --> 1:37:26.439 and you guys could see him. I I could hear 1:37:26.520 --> 1:37:28.040 him around and cows up. He would run up on 1:37:28.080 --> 1:37:29.639 this little knob, try to grab a cow and push 1:37:29.680 --> 1:37:32.160 her down. Well, there was so much chaos there. I'm like, 1:37:32.160 --> 1:37:34.599 I can get away with running at him, and he's 1:37:34.640 --> 1:37:37.599 got his cows, so like mismanaged right now that if 1:37:37.640 --> 1:37:39.439 he thinks I'm gonna come in and like swipe one up, 1:37:39.479 --> 1:37:41.000 maybe that would be enough. Like hey, i don't care 1:37:41.000 --> 1:37:42.559 about my cows all around them up later, but I'm 1:37:42.560 --> 1:37:44.760 at least gonna stop this guy. And so that's kind 1:37:44.800 --> 1:37:47.479 of what's going. But that's one of those things where 1:37:47.479 --> 1:37:51.880 it just you know, the pursuit of perfection. Like, I 1:37:51.960 --> 1:37:54.320 don't feel there's any better way to call Elkin than 1:37:54.400 --> 1:37:57.280 to actually sound as much like a real Elk as possible. 1:37:57.400 --> 1:38:00.160 And I don't want to give my own prod ex 1:38:00.360 --> 1:38:02.840 plug here, but I think that metal beagle tube like 1:38:03.120 --> 1:38:06.280 truly is a little bit of a differentiator between some 1:38:06.439 --> 1:38:08.960 of our old plastic tubes. Um, by all means go by, 1:38:08.960 --> 1:38:12.120 our old plastic tubes are great, but but that metal tube, 1:38:12.439 --> 1:38:15.760 it just got something to it where I feel like 1:38:15.840 --> 1:38:17.920 I can no longer tail like on my grunts or 1:38:17.960 --> 1:38:22.439 lip balls that I'm calling through a plastic tube. The Uh, 1:38:22.880 --> 1:38:26.240 there's a thing that I know something I make the 1:38:26.320 --> 1:38:31.599 comparison all the time. Uh, in aspects I did see 1:38:31.720 --> 1:38:33.640 multiple times, aspects of turkey hunting and al calling it. 1:38:33.880 --> 1:38:36.280 It annoys people because it's like like it's just different, 1:38:36.680 --> 1:38:40.599 but there's some similarity in that there's a couple areas 1:38:40.600 --> 1:38:44.920 of similarity that calling turkeys. There's a thing that happens 1:38:44.920 --> 1:38:49.320 at a certain proximity, Like at a certain proximity, it's harder, 1:38:49.680 --> 1:38:52.519 it becomes harder for it to ignore you, right, And 1:38:52.600 --> 1:38:57.840 there is that that um, you're at times mimicking a 1:38:57.920 --> 1:39:05.160 female Okay, you're uh, you're exploiting like the sexual desire 1:39:05.240 --> 1:39:08.160 of the animal. Right, there's there's certain overlaps. You go out, 1:39:08.360 --> 1:39:11.519 you listen to figure out where you're gonna go. You 1:39:11.600 --> 1:39:13.639 sort of pick a bird. You're gonna try to work. 1:39:13.680 --> 1:39:15.960 You're picking up you're gonna try to work. Um. So 1:39:16.120 --> 1:39:20.640 there are like undeniable similarities. They don't nearly amount to 1:39:20.680 --> 1:39:23.439 the number of differences, but there's some reference points there. 1:39:24.040 --> 1:39:26.439 In Turkey hunting is a thing that everyone resorts to. 1:39:26.560 --> 1:39:27.720 You hear it all the time. Was like the old 1:39:27.760 --> 1:39:31.599 silent treatment, right that you'll get you'll be hen calling 1:39:31.680 --> 1:39:35.040 to a bird, to a gobbler, he's goblin's ass off. 1:39:35.560 --> 1:39:38.519 But after why I realized that, like he's gobbling, he's 1:39:38.520 --> 1:39:42.120 having the time of his day. Uh, he's probably strutting. 1:39:42.520 --> 1:39:46.960 And he realized that, like he's really enjoying himself. I mean, 1:39:47.040 --> 1:39:48.840 like he doesn't he's not in your head. He's like 1:39:48.880 --> 1:39:51.400 he won't come in whatever. He's just like he's thinking 1:39:51.479 --> 1:39:52.920 that he's doing what he's supposed to be doing. He's like, 1:39:53.000 --> 1:39:55.679 what what more can I do? I'm gobbling, I'm strutting. 1:39:56.400 --> 1:39:58.559 Why is the hen not coming over here? Like I'm yeah, 1:39:58.680 --> 1:40:02.240 this is great. Any minute she's gonna show up. Um, 1:40:02.360 --> 1:40:06.120 And then you do the old silent treatment, thinking that uh, 1:40:07.439 --> 1:40:09.880 you know whatever it is, Yeah, curiosity, you'll kill him 1:40:09.880 --> 1:40:11.479 and he'll come over to see what the hell happened. 1:40:11.600 --> 1:40:14.120 I don't know I do it. Oh yeah, I can't 1:40:14.160 --> 1:40:15.600 tell you. I don't know. I can't tell you like 1:40:15.720 --> 1:40:17.960 empirically that it works. But it's like one of the 1:40:18.320 --> 1:40:21.560 plays in the playbook. I kept waiting for you to 1:40:21.760 --> 1:40:25.560 at times do that, but you don't do that without I. 1:40:25.760 --> 1:40:29.360 I have like the patience of like none. And so 1:40:30.400 --> 1:40:32.559 the times I tell myself I'm gonna wait like five 1:40:32.640 --> 1:40:36.280 seconds to calcol or five minutes to calcol usually get 1:40:36.320 --> 1:40:39.800 about thirty six seconds in and I'm calcol again. Um. 1:40:39.880 --> 1:40:42.040 The only time I tried to like stagger things out 1:40:42.160 --> 1:40:44.679 was when we set up on the bowl right before 1:40:44.800 --> 1:40:47.360 the bowl that you ended up killing that one. That 1:40:47.520 --> 1:40:49.760 was kind of I tried to put time in there, 1:40:49.800 --> 1:40:54.360 but it's just I feel like that time of nobody talking, 1:40:54.720 --> 1:40:57.800 either me or that bowl is giving him a chance 1:40:57.840 --> 1:40:59.479 to get away without me knowing what the heck is 1:40:59.479 --> 1:41:02.800 going on, And so like that pause, like did he 1:41:02.920 --> 1:41:05.040 just did he now just walk a hundred yards away 1:41:05.040 --> 1:41:07.200 from us. And I didn't know because I sat and 1:41:07.320 --> 1:41:09.479 waited for three minutes until I let a call out. 1:41:10.120 --> 1:41:13.559 So there's maybe there's some like anxiety on my side 1:41:13.640 --> 1:41:17.479 that if we don't keep him talking, uh. But but 1:41:17.560 --> 1:41:19.840 then there were times where I also realized on that 1:41:19.920 --> 1:41:23.439 specific bowl that if I if I cow called five 1:41:23.560 --> 1:41:25.559 or six times in a short time, he would stop. 1:41:25.680 --> 1:41:27.400 He would only answer the first cow call right, and 1:41:27.439 --> 1:41:30.680 then the other five were kind of just extras or 1:41:30.800 --> 1:41:32.280 he wouldn't. But then if I would wait a couple 1:41:32.280 --> 1:41:34.479 of minutes, he would then respond again. So it was 1:41:34.560 --> 1:41:38.000 like he was only answering that first round of cow calls. Um. 1:41:38.080 --> 1:41:39.400 And that was the only bowl I think I didn't 1:41:39.439 --> 1:41:41.960 biggle at maybe tell the end because I lost his interest. 1:41:42.000 --> 1:41:43.760 We couldn't even get him to answer a caw call 1:41:43.840 --> 1:41:46.160 after what twenty minutes of you guys being set up. 1:41:47.320 --> 1:41:49.840 But yeah, we try the silent treatment a lot, but 1:41:50.000 --> 1:41:53.280 more that's more of like progression three or four, Like 1:41:53.400 --> 1:41:55.320 we never got there to the point where these things 1:41:55.360 --> 1:41:58.000 were just is he there? Is he hanging up? Do 1:41:58.080 --> 1:42:00.800 we need to be quiet? Do we need to uh? Yeah? 1:42:00.880 --> 1:42:03.519 So so why I think they're they're you know, similar 1:42:03.520 --> 1:42:05.840 to tricky out and there's a lot of being quiet. Um. 1:42:06.240 --> 1:42:08.040 I'm not good at it, and I try to try 1:42:08.040 --> 1:42:09.799 to make a play where there's a little noise involved. 1:42:10.120 --> 1:42:11.640 I feel like I asked you about this one in 1:42:11.680 --> 1:42:14.800 the past. This is my last out question for you. 1:42:14.920 --> 1:42:17.280 I'll see if these, uh, these fellas happeny for you. 1:42:17.400 --> 1:42:21.320 But we talked about the past, like sometimes you rip 1:42:21.360 --> 1:42:26.639 a bugle and at least it's People discussed this as 1:42:26.680 --> 1:42:28.320 being true. You rip a bugle and it just and 1:42:28.400 --> 1:42:31.120 it it pushes the bull away. Not that he's like 1:42:31.840 --> 1:42:34.760 as a person, but it could be that he doesn't 1:42:34.800 --> 1:42:37.320 feel like having a confrontation. And we had one where 1:42:37.320 --> 1:42:38.960 I don't we couldn't really tell if they winted us. 1:42:39.000 --> 1:42:40.880 It didn't seem like they did, but there was a 1:42:40.920 --> 1:42:43.240 bull that would respond. But then when we got eyeballs 1:42:43.280 --> 1:42:46.879 on him, everybody was just going in the other direction. 1:42:47.800 --> 1:42:49.800 Do you think that, uh, do you think that that's 1:42:49.840 --> 1:42:52.720 the thing that they are They just bail because they 1:42:52.720 --> 1:42:55.360 don't want to deal with another bull. I find it 1:42:55.520 --> 1:42:59.559 more in like you're semimature bulls, Like if he's been 1:42:59.800 --> 1:43:02.200 fortunate enough to somehow peel some cows off of a herd. 1:43:02.520 --> 1:43:04.800 You know, we were hunting boll There were a couple 1:43:04.800 --> 1:43:07.120 of herds I guess with seven or eight cows, But 1:43:07.439 --> 1:43:09.599 the majority of these bulls here there's a high bowld 1:43:09.600 --> 1:43:12.519 of cow rat that they've got very small herds, Like 1:43:12.600 --> 1:43:14.519 even the big bulls are running four or five cows, 1:43:15.120 --> 1:43:17.400 like two cows and a calf is like their harems. 1:43:18.160 --> 1:43:20.920 So you take a semimateur bowl that's been able to 1:43:21.040 --> 1:43:25.679 peel a few cows off that bowl is less confident 1:43:25.720 --> 1:43:28.799 in his ability to probably defend those defend his possession 1:43:28.840 --> 1:43:32.040 of those cows. So if you announce that you're coming 1:43:32.280 --> 1:43:35.120 to him and that you're getting closer and closer by bugles, 1:43:35.760 --> 1:43:38.880 that guy's best option is to grab his cows and leave, 1:43:39.439 --> 1:43:42.840 like avoid the confrontation completely. Now, if you can get 1:43:42.960 --> 1:43:45.040 him to answer, he will sometimes answer for four or 1:43:45.560 --> 1:43:48.160 yards away and just hold tight because he's just kind 1:43:48.200 --> 1:43:50.400 of you know, social talk like hey I'm here, well, 1:43:50.400 --> 1:43:52.840 hey i'm over here. But if you were now to 1:43:52.920 --> 1:43:54.800 be quiet and kind of guessed where he was at 1:43:55.040 --> 1:43:57.800 and then sneak in on him, you've now taken away 1:43:57.840 --> 1:43:59.800 his ability to like round his cows. Up and leave, 1:44:00.360 --> 1:44:01.920 and so that's kind of why we try to use 1:44:02.160 --> 1:44:04.120 it's kind of surprised, but we know he's there, so 1:44:04.240 --> 1:44:06.519 we know it's gonna be you know, it's a surprise 1:44:06.560 --> 1:44:08.200 from our end, but he doesn't really know. He's getting 1:44:08.240 --> 1:44:10.479 set up um for us to be that close and 1:44:10.600 --> 1:44:12.920 give him, you know, it's that whole fight or flight response. 1:44:12.960 --> 1:44:15.040 We're giving him like no other option but to fight 1:44:15.160 --> 1:44:17.880 or just run away and leave his cows to us. Yeah, 1:44:18.080 --> 1:44:21.120 or you're close enough that if he moves thirty yards 1:44:22.280 --> 1:44:25.040 to investigate, he's in your zone. Yeah, yeah, you're there. 1:44:25.080 --> 1:44:26.960 And so that's where a lot of what we did 1:44:27.120 --> 1:44:29.080 was just you know, we fought the wind a little bit, 1:44:29.160 --> 1:44:31.120 not too much. New Mexico treated us pretty well with 1:44:31.200 --> 1:44:33.160 pretty consistent winds. There was a couple of days where 1:44:33.160 --> 1:44:35.240 our morning hunts were tough because we were coming off 1:44:35.280 --> 1:44:37.960 the top trying to go down. But yeah, just get 1:44:38.040 --> 1:44:41.519 the wind right, semi right, and then um moving close 1:44:42.280 --> 1:44:45.080 otherwise otherwise that biagle could potentially just scare them off 1:44:45.120 --> 1:44:47.160 and then you're like dang every time. You know. That's 1:44:47.160 --> 1:44:49.840 where that's where I think the bad, the bad reputation 1:44:49.880 --> 1:44:52.080 for biggling comes in as everybody's like, man, I'm bagled 1:44:52.080 --> 1:44:53.400 at this bowl and he just took his cows and 1:44:53.479 --> 1:44:55.880 ran away. Well, did you do it from five yards 1:44:55.920 --> 1:44:58.320 and then fo two hundred your whole way in? Or 1:44:58.400 --> 1:45:01.240 did you then go silent, get close and be and 1:45:01.280 --> 1:45:04.080 it's it's a different it's a completely different message, sinding 1:45:04.200 --> 1:45:06.800 versus beagle in your whole way in. We had um 1:45:08.439 --> 1:45:10.160 a couple of years ago. I was hunting with my 1:45:10.240 --> 1:45:12.519 brother two years two was it two falls ago? I 1:45:12.520 --> 1:45:14.120 ain't two falls a go either way. We watched the 1:45:14.160 --> 1:45:16.400 bowl all morning and tried to call him in, and 1:45:16.439 --> 1:45:20.080 he had a bunch of coles with him and eventually 1:45:20.200 --> 1:45:23.280 bedded down. It would bugle a little bit from his bed, 1:45:24.120 --> 1:45:26.760 and we worked him all morning from different angles, but 1:45:27.520 --> 1:45:29.280 he betted in such a place that we could like 1:45:29.439 --> 1:45:32.160 drop a pin on where he was come around the 1:45:32.240 --> 1:45:34.599 air direction. I mean we got seventy five yards somewhere 1:45:34.640 --> 1:45:37.880 he was bedding, and my brother snuck out a little 1:45:37.880 --> 1:45:42.400 bit ahead of me and one bugle and he you know, 1:45:42.920 --> 1:45:45.080 my brother killed him at like twenty yards. But that 1:45:45.240 --> 1:45:46.920 was all morning trying to give him to do stuff. 1:45:46.960 --> 1:45:49.040 We were down below. He's on the Hillside was just 1:45:49.160 --> 1:45:51.640 that one minute where somehow he was like what in 1:45:51.720 --> 1:45:54.360 the hell? Yeah, and there it got up, you know, 1:45:54.520 --> 1:45:55.840 But it was just like we were like in his 1:45:56.320 --> 1:45:58.519 in his zone, man, you know what I mean. And 1:45:58.560 --> 1:45:59.800 then we got him to do what we could not 1:46:00.000 --> 1:46:01.439 and we couldn't get them to take one step in 1:46:01.479 --> 1:46:03.880 our direction all morning. But he was betted. The cows 1:46:03.920 --> 1:46:06.400 are betted around and at that minute he's like for whatever, 1:46:06.560 --> 1:46:09.120 He's like, no, I'm gonna go there and look real protective. 1:46:09.160 --> 1:46:11.200 We didn't have to get into whole lot of bedroom strategy, 1:46:11.240 --> 1:46:13.320 but they're very protective of their bedroom. When you get 1:46:13.360 --> 1:46:16.760 that close to him and his cows. What do you guys? 1:46:16.800 --> 1:46:21.120 Got you any questions? I got an observation. Um, the 1:46:21.200 --> 1:46:24.000 other thing I really like like being with you on 1:46:24.560 --> 1:46:27.200 on these hell counts where you're calling. It's like I 1:46:27.400 --> 1:46:31.479 get riled up the more you're reacting to the the other, Like, so, 1:46:31.920 --> 1:46:34.280 do you feel like you're a Coelcra bull bowl out 1:46:34.400 --> 1:46:38.200 with my body at the barbie and like empathize with you, 1:46:38.280 --> 1:46:40.800 empathize with the bulls? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and the 1:46:41.439 --> 1:46:44.720 like you know how like a conflict with humans will 1:46:44.760 --> 1:46:47.960 slowly escalating people start check like yelling over each other. 1:46:48.760 --> 1:46:51.600 Jason would do the same. Like initially there'll be the 1:46:51.680 --> 1:46:54.439 pauses of like this is who I am, this is 1:46:54.520 --> 1:46:56.840 what I got, and then when he gets like fired up, 1:46:56.880 --> 1:47:00.280 you'd like step on his his like like when we 1:47:00.360 --> 1:47:06.599 were arguing about nutrition. Yeah, just yelling over each other 1:47:07.240 --> 1:47:10.320 and and then that that physically would bring them in. 1:47:10.479 --> 1:47:12.880 It's just it's really cool being able to watch that 1:47:13.479 --> 1:47:17.280 or feel it. Yeah, even fuel the energy up. Yeah, 1:47:17.960 --> 1:47:20.280 and like oh yeah, like the real you know, it's 1:47:20.280 --> 1:47:22.920 getting like heavy when I'm like quickly reaching for my tube, 1:47:22.960 --> 1:47:24.360 like damn it. If would have had that in my hand, 1:47:24.360 --> 1:47:25.640 that would have been better off. But I'm trying to 1:47:25.640 --> 1:47:27.960 grab it as fast as I can. And I shouldn't 1:47:27.960 --> 1:47:29.479 have said it that, but yeah, it's you start the 1:47:29.520 --> 1:47:32.639 conversation out cordial and then you you end up piste 1:47:32.640 --> 1:47:34.040 off at him by the end. That's kind of what 1:47:34.160 --> 1:47:37.360 you're and I I, as a by standard, was getting 1:47:37.360 --> 1:47:40.120 piste off at him too, Like can tell what's up, Jason, 1:47:41.400 --> 1:47:47.040 don't take that ship. I've I've got a m so 1:47:47.320 --> 1:47:51.240 I think a lot of people, at least myself and 1:47:51.280 --> 1:47:53.519 a lot of guys that I know are hunting elk 1:47:53.640 --> 1:47:56.439 that have been called to quite a bit fairly high 1:47:56.479 --> 1:48:00.720 pressured areas, and the key to killing those elk with 1:48:00.960 --> 1:48:05.320 calling strategy is sounding like a real bowl For people 1:48:05.400 --> 1:48:09.720 out there, what would you say are maybe the three 1:48:10.000 --> 1:48:14.360 main notes or calls or like the three three or 1:48:14.439 --> 1:48:18.479 four main takeaways that the people can practice to sound 1:48:18.560 --> 1:48:20.760 like a real you know, a real elk. I mean 1:48:20.800 --> 1:48:23.680 like breaking brush is great and then not a lot 1:48:23.720 --> 1:48:26.800 of people you know probably think of that as much. 1:48:27.200 --> 1:48:29.439 But yeah, I've got a very very good buddy, that 1:48:30.000 --> 1:48:32.800 very successful el hunter, and he doesn't call near as 1:48:32.880 --> 1:48:34.640 much as me. He's as aggressive as I am, but 1:48:34.800 --> 1:48:38.120 he he feels that he can get the bigger bowls 1:48:38.200 --> 1:48:41.920 to break just with breaking brush and making noise. Um. 1:48:42.320 --> 1:48:45.320 You know, you pair that I would sounding like a 1:48:45.360 --> 1:48:48.439 real elk is gonna take a ton of ton of time. Um. 1:48:49.360 --> 1:48:51.439 You know, we've we we've got products that we try 1:48:51.520 --> 1:48:53.920 to use, like the easy bugler Um to really cut 1:48:53.960 --> 1:48:56.000 that learning curve down to make you sound as realistic 1:48:56.040 --> 1:48:58.560 as possible. But they're still gonna be stuff left on 1:48:58.600 --> 1:49:00.360 the table. You can't lip ball through it like you 1:49:00.439 --> 1:49:02.240 can in there are certain situations right be dead in 1:49:02.280 --> 1:49:04.599 the water. Without that, um, I'm not gonna be able 1:49:04.600 --> 1:49:06.200 to give you a great answer. I would say, if 1:49:06.200 --> 1:49:08.600 you can perfect just your normal col mu, get it 1:49:08.800 --> 1:49:12.080 very very clean and um, and then you need to 1:49:12.120 --> 1:49:15.000 have some sort of a challenge bugle. But there there's 1:49:15.080 --> 1:49:18.320 no easy way to sound as realistic as possible without 1:49:18.400 --> 1:49:20.840 just like, yeah, I mean a lot of I think 1:49:21.760 --> 1:49:23.360 your elk hunters picked their calls up, you know, a 1:49:23.400 --> 1:49:25.760 couple of days before season and they go out and 1:49:25.800 --> 1:49:28.800 they're they're good enough. Um, but the first first you 1:49:28.880 --> 1:49:32.080 bake it on your dashboard for a while, yeah, in 1:49:32.280 --> 1:49:36.320 late August, let him melt, and then you call it 1:49:36.400 --> 1:49:41.120 stop signs, called the red light. So you know, it's 1:49:41.160 --> 1:49:43.400 a guy that's dedicated the last twenty years of my 1:49:43.520 --> 1:49:46.080 life to you know, being the best elk caller I can, 1:49:46.240 --> 1:49:49.040 like a lot of people don't have that time, you know, 1:49:49.120 --> 1:49:51.759 to mess with it. But um, you know between external 1:49:51.840 --> 1:49:55.080 cow calls, um, figuring out one or two good bugles 1:49:55.120 --> 1:49:56.720 and it's just you know, a lot of practice. But 1:49:56.800 --> 1:49:58.640 I would say it's for I would go in with 1:49:58.760 --> 1:50:01.880 an an you know cow call, maybe an extrus wine, 1:50:02.240 --> 1:50:04.479 going with a challenge bugle, and then going with like 1:50:04.520 --> 1:50:07.200 a high pitched, clean locator bugle and and get very 1:50:07.240 --> 1:50:09.880 good at those three calls. I remember, what's type of 1:50:09.920 --> 1:50:12.080 golf where you can only pick like two clubs or something. 1:50:13.920 --> 1:50:16.599 It's like, there's like a certain type of golf where 1:50:16.600 --> 1:50:18.519 you can take like three clubs and play the whole course. 1:50:18.880 --> 1:50:22.320 But that's that's yeah, that's like minimalist golf. Yeah, yeah, 1:50:22.360 --> 1:50:24.760 you pick your three clubs that you need. God No, 1:50:25.840 --> 1:50:27.920 I've drank beer and chased my golf ball around and 1:50:28.560 --> 1:50:32.679 deep stuff a couple of times, but never golf. That's 1:50:32.960 --> 1:50:35.160 not It seems like the golf industry would not like 1:50:35.560 --> 1:50:37.040 a kind of golf where you don't have to have 1:50:37.120 --> 1:50:41.400 a lot of clubs. It's some special kind of tournament, 1:50:41.439 --> 1:50:44.000 I think. But but that's like, you know, there's a 1:50:44.040 --> 1:50:46.760 volleyball where you can't touch it with your hands only 1:50:46.760 --> 1:50:48.080 because you were telling me about it the other night. 1:50:48.080 --> 1:50:50.040 You have to like use your feet. We're sitting at 1:50:50.040 --> 1:50:52.280 a bar in airport, me and South and I was 1:50:52.479 --> 1:50:55.360 surprised the volleyball is on TV, and then realized I 1:50:55.360 --> 1:50:57.280 couldn't figure out what seemed weird about it, and never 1:50:57.320 --> 1:51:02.599 realized that they couldn't use their hands. It's like, man, 1:51:02.640 --> 1:51:04.559 these guys are leaving off one of the best tools 1:51:04.600 --> 1:51:13.000 in the toolbox. You'll spite. Yeah, so those three a 1:51:13.080 --> 1:51:15.080 good cow call, a good challenge, biogle in to the 1:51:15.160 --> 1:51:17.960 locator and then figure out what tools you need to 1:51:18.040 --> 1:51:19.720 make that. There's a bunch of different ways to do it. 1:51:19.800 --> 1:51:22.600 But man, that lip ball was effective though. If you 1:51:22.640 --> 1:51:25.120 can get that down, yeah, I mean, that's that's one 1:51:25.160 --> 1:51:30.120 of those main tools. Where like to the least two 1:51:30.160 --> 1:51:33.439 the bowls I've seen turn and they were leaving like 1:51:33.560 --> 1:51:35.479 I've had enough, I don't believe you, I can't see you, 1:51:36.240 --> 1:51:39.200 and hit him with a lip ball, and it's that's 1:51:39.280 --> 1:51:41.680 one of the most special things to see. And we 1:51:41.760 --> 1:51:45.080 saw it a couple of times. Uh. To see one 1:51:45.600 --> 1:51:48.600 leaving and then change his mind and come back, it 1:51:48.640 --> 1:51:52.960 is pretty incredible. Man. That's that's like some real emotional 1:51:53.040 --> 1:51:56.240 up and downs for the hall. Like that's if I 1:51:56.280 --> 1:51:57.920 could hang my hat on like anything I can do 1:51:58.000 --> 1:51:59.920 calling that would be like I just turned he was 1:52:00.080 --> 1:52:01.519 leaving and I turned him all the way like he 1:52:01.600 --> 1:52:03.919 had already changed his mind and I got him to recommit. 1:52:04.240 --> 1:52:07.080 It's like you're in a fight and you're like the mama. 1:52:07.479 --> 1:52:10.560 Yea argue with your wife, you like, walk out and 1:52:10.640 --> 1:52:18.920 you come back in another day. Um I was talking 1:52:18.920 --> 1:52:21.479 about was talking about Norm McDonald, but some how that 1:52:21.560 --> 1:52:24.200 made me think of the late comedian Mitch Hadburg. You 1:52:24.280 --> 1:52:26.400 know him. I know he's talking about how he was 1:52:26.439 --> 1:52:28.599 talking about why he didn't like camping and he felt 1:52:28.680 --> 1:52:30.439 that it was when he got in the fight with 1:52:30.479 --> 1:52:33.439 his girlfriend. It was hard to express his anger because 1:52:33.479 --> 1:52:46.479 he tried to aggressively zip the tent shut. Uh. Oh man, 1:52:46.720 --> 1:52:48.559 it was great hunting with you. Man, it was fun. 1:52:50.040 --> 1:52:53.960 Um to find you were like how to find everybody 1:52:54.800 --> 1:52:57.080 gold Phelps game calls and tell everybody what you do 1:52:57.160 --> 1:52:59.280 in September with the crazy dude. If I go on 1:52:59.360 --> 1:53:03.800 Instagram right now, you're you're pretty, it's it's overwhelming. I 1:53:03.880 --> 1:53:07.200 want to talk about like your your desire to be 1:53:07.320 --> 1:53:10.640 on there, because you were giving me all kinds of 1:53:10.880 --> 1:53:14.640 I I was unsure of whether Steve could be on 1:53:14.880 --> 1:53:17.880 there with his kill before anything else supposed, but he 1:53:17.920 --> 1:53:20.080 wanted to be on the Phelps brag board first, which 1:53:20.600 --> 1:53:24.120 I appreciate. Yeah, the Felps brag board explain it. So 1:53:24.400 --> 1:53:26.599 we did something. We started I think three or four 1:53:26.680 --> 1:53:31.200 years ago where it's kind of that customer appreciation customer success. Um. 1:53:32.360 --> 1:53:35.880 We post anybody's elk that they kill with our calls 1:53:36.000 --> 1:53:38.000 on our Instagram page for the world to see, and 1:53:38.120 --> 1:53:40.040 we just kind of want to know, like what calls 1:53:40.080 --> 1:53:41.799 he used, kind of a little bit about the scenario. 1:53:42.360 --> 1:53:44.280 And it's not just big bowls, even though there's a 1:53:44.320 --> 1:53:46.280 lot of them showing up, but anybody's using our calls, 1:53:46.360 --> 1:53:49.439 calls in a cow, a spike, a bull. We're posting 1:53:49.479 --> 1:53:51.320 it up and giving some feedback, and it's meant to 1:53:51.400 --> 1:53:53.599 be you know, kind of a thank you to all 1:53:53.640 --> 1:53:56.200 of our you know, call users, but also a little 1:53:56.200 --> 1:53:58.679 bit of an education of what calls people are using, 1:53:59.120 --> 1:54:01.120 maybe a little bit on the set up, what call 1:54:01.240 --> 1:54:03.800 they actually did to get that bull in um, and 1:54:03.840 --> 1:54:05.439 then kind of what states. So we're kind of just 1:54:05.479 --> 1:54:09.680 sharing information from some of our customers success. I mean, 1:54:09.720 --> 1:54:11.960 it just it may piss people off if they follow us, 1:54:12.000 --> 1:54:13.800 but when you get on there, there's probably gonna be 1:54:13.920 --> 1:54:16.320 twenty or thirty posts, you know, every couple of hours 1:54:16.360 --> 1:54:19.519 from us with just you know bulls that are what 1:54:19.560 --> 1:54:22.880 I like about it too, is uh, I mean, it's 1:54:22.960 --> 1:54:29.840 big bulls first bulls, hundred bulls, cows, spikes. Yeah, it's 1:54:29.880 --> 1:54:32.360 fun man, Yeah, it's just what you're just it's fun 1:54:32.400 --> 1:54:33.960 to look at. It just rolls out. A friend of 1:54:34.000 --> 1:54:37.720 mine called up, He's like, it is staggering the number 1:54:37.760 --> 1:54:42.240 of people killed phelps games. Yeah, it's a matter of fact. 1:54:42.240 --> 1:54:43.840 Somebody asking me their day. Do you ever like stop 1:54:43.920 --> 1:54:46.800 and think about what you what you've did, Like how 1:54:46.840 --> 1:54:49.040 many Elk have like died And I don't like to 1:54:49.080 --> 1:54:51.920 think of it as like necessarily killed, but like we 1:54:52.080 --> 1:54:54.040 were able to add to that experience, like we've been up. 1:54:54.320 --> 1:54:56.760 We were able to add to the success and add 1:54:56.800 --> 1:54:58.640 to their experience. But I don't necessarily want I'm not 1:54:58.720 --> 1:55:01.720 like that bloodst It's not occurring outside of like game 1:55:01.800 --> 1:55:05.320 management objectives, you know, not necessarily blood there like oh 1:55:05.400 --> 1:55:07.800 we you know four d four thousand, seven hundred nine 1:55:08.160 --> 1:55:10.000 all died because of us. Yes, you're looking at it. 1:55:10.280 --> 1:55:12.480 It's like when you look at it, it's one thing 1:55:12.560 --> 1:55:17.920 about it is um the amount of human joy in 1:55:18.120 --> 1:55:23.160 sense of accomplishment captured in the photos. Yeah, it's just 1:55:23.240 --> 1:55:24.840 like what I was looking at a bunch of this morning. 1:55:24.880 --> 1:55:28.920 It's like first out, finally did it? Uh, you know, 1:55:29.080 --> 1:55:31.280 my my brother in law finally got his first bawl, 1:55:31.360 --> 1:55:33.720 my wife finally got her full first ball. That's whatever, man, 1:55:33.840 --> 1:55:37.960 It's like people like being out in the woods, like 1:55:38.280 --> 1:55:42.600 having fun and then feeling like thankful that they had 1:55:42.680 --> 1:55:46.120 the experience and had the tools and expertise. It's a 1:55:46.160 --> 1:55:48.280 lot of fun, man. Yeah, I I I got a 1:55:48.320 --> 1:55:49.680 ton of enjoyment out of that. And you know, I 1:55:49.720 --> 1:55:50.960 get to deal with him a little bit on the 1:55:51.000 --> 1:55:53.800 back end, like asked him about their experience and it's cool. 1:55:53.960 --> 1:55:56.200 You know, everybody wants to kind of did it without years. 1:55:56.240 --> 1:55:57.920 I'm like, do not say that, Like it's it's just 1:55:58.000 --> 1:56:00.120 like a carpenter. Yeah, they got a hammer. That's just 1:56:00.200 --> 1:56:01.760 a tool that lets them get their job done. But 1:56:01.800 --> 1:56:05.160 the skill was still you. You made all the right decisions. Um, 1:56:05.240 --> 1:56:07.080 we're just We're just a tool in your toolbox. But 1:56:07.160 --> 1:56:09.440 I'm glad you trusted in us to to use our 1:56:09.520 --> 1:56:12.040 calls and and to use our you know, our stuff 1:56:12.120 --> 1:56:14.400 in your experience. So and A Jason had to defend 1:56:14.440 --> 1:56:16.600 the honor of a man who was criticized for shooting 1:56:16.640 --> 1:56:18.960 a spike, which is the stupidest criticism in the world. Oh, 1:56:19.040 --> 1:56:21.240 I got so mad I was gonna Chester. Was me 1:56:21.360 --> 1:56:24.360 and Chester bunked together in our spike tent and Chester 1:56:24.480 --> 1:56:25.760 was the only thing close. Now he was gonna get 1:56:25.800 --> 1:56:29.920 punched because I was getting so frustrated, and I told Chester, 1:56:30.040 --> 1:56:32.040 like I hate dealing with these assholes. Bring it on. 1:56:34.080 --> 1:56:36.280 Chester is gonna punch me back. I'd like to see 1:56:36.280 --> 1:56:39.400 you Chester d get out. But now it's one of 1:56:39.400 --> 1:56:42.960 those things like is it is it legal? Is it? 1:56:43.640 --> 1:56:45.760 That's all that really matters? Is it legal? And who 1:56:45.840 --> 1:56:47.720 the hell else cares about anything? You know, this guy 1:56:47.800 --> 1:56:50.880 was making a first attacks and personally, which pisses me off, like, oh, 1:56:51.440 --> 1:56:52.840 look at you. You don't need to eat a spike, 1:56:52.960 --> 1:56:56.200 Like basically commenting on the guy's stat doesn't. Oh, says 1:56:56.760 --> 1:56:58.640 guy a bigger I always just saying, so you don't 1:56:58.680 --> 1:57:00.400 need the meat. I can tell because you see your 1:57:00.440 --> 1:57:02.400 body well, so you can't say you killed the spike 1:57:02.440 --> 1:57:05.240 because of its size. So it first she attacks him personally, 1:57:05.440 --> 1:57:08.920 then he attacks him like on a population elk population. 1:57:09.280 --> 1:57:12.680 But I completely like reduced that to that spike isn't 1:57:12.680 --> 1:57:15.480 gonna probably reproduce for four years. I mean, you talked 1:57:15.480 --> 1:57:17.440 about this a little bit, like the only argument that 1:57:17.520 --> 1:57:19.760 guy would have is that maybe in four or five years, 1:57:19.800 --> 1:57:23.120 if he's this big quote unquote professional, you know, mature 1:57:23.200 --> 1:57:25.040 bowl killer, he would maybe have a shot at killing 1:57:25.080 --> 1:57:26.800 that bowl in four or five years. But other than that, 1:57:26.960 --> 1:57:29.400 there's like no legitimate argument. And I don't have time 1:57:29.480 --> 1:57:31.920 to sit and like you know, pigs love the wrestle 1:57:31.960 --> 1:57:33.560 on the mug, and I just was out of it. 1:57:33.600 --> 1:57:34.880 Like I wrestled with him for a little bit, and 1:57:34.920 --> 1:57:38.360 I'm like, oh, the block button. It just takes care 1:57:38.360 --> 1:57:40.560 of all my issues and I can my blood pressure 1:57:40.600 --> 1:57:42.440 can come back down. Didn't He didn't even need to 1:57:42.480 --> 1:57:45.760 punch Chester. No, No, I Chester was trying to go 1:57:45.800 --> 1:57:47.600 to sleep, and I saw my phone just over there 1:57:47.680 --> 1:57:53.640 like lit up, getting frustrated as all hell. This year, 1:57:54.560 --> 1:57:56.360 I like those spikes, man, Yeah, I'll put it on 1:57:56.440 --> 1:57:59.680 that I've never got a spike. A lot of you know, 1:58:00.000 --> 1:58:02.400 ot areas that were hunting. You can't. You got branch out, 1:58:02.560 --> 1:58:08.200 branch out with bull um. My brother Danny, he used 1:58:08.240 --> 1:58:10.960 to hunt. He was working in Washington on the Saints 1:58:11.000 --> 1:58:13.120 some salmon projects and he used to hunt these units 1:58:13.160 --> 1:58:16.800 where it was spike only. And he said, you know, 1:58:16.840 --> 1:58:18.560 you're out hunting you just think like, oh, ship, how 1:58:18.640 --> 1:58:20.360 hard it can be to find a spike? He goes, Man, 1:58:20.520 --> 1:58:22.600 you're gonna do a spike on the area, and you realize, 1:58:22.640 --> 1:58:25.800 like how hard is Like, on one hand, it seems 1:58:25.840 --> 1:58:28.200 like they're around, because when you're looking for one, all studs, 1:58:28.280 --> 1:58:31.640 like every bowl there's a big bull. How the spikes 1:58:31.680 --> 1:58:34.080 did we see on this hunt? Zero zero zero? Yeah, 1:58:34.240 --> 1:58:38.800 he was saying, like that can't be that hard. Turns 1:58:38.840 --> 1:58:44.920 out a whole different story man. Yeah, alright, guys, Sam, 1:58:45.080 --> 1:58:49.760 thanks for the uh producing this this episode. We just 1:58:49.800 --> 1:58:53.080 made something part of our part of our season ten. Yeah, 1:58:53.200 --> 1:58:55.680 last episode of season ten. That's our apt So it 1:58:55.920 --> 1:58:58.480 rolls out in two batches. We got one batche launched 1:58:58.480 --> 1:59:02.720 in September right nine, so we got a batch episodes 1:59:02.960 --> 1:59:05.440 hitting Netflix September twenty nine. Filed up a couple months 1:59:05.520 --> 1:59:07.840 later with the with the batch of five more episodes 1:59:08.000 --> 1:59:09.880 of which this will be a part, so you'll be 1:59:09.880 --> 1:59:11.880 able to watch all this stuff we're talking about. This 1:59:12.000 --> 1:59:13.360 is gonna be one of our This is gonna be 1:59:13.400 --> 1:59:16.080 one of our best episodes, man, because just the amount 1:59:16.120 --> 1:59:19.480 of interactions, the amount of wildlife interactions in it, and 1:59:19.600 --> 1:59:22.600 besides archery is the coolest thing. I know you like it. 1:59:23.640 --> 1:59:25.920 We're talking about deer. Jay said, all the deer hunting 1:59:25.920 --> 1:59:27.440 I've done that, one of them is bugled at me. 1:59:29.960 --> 1:59:33.800 The duet, the ducks and geese don't have horns. There's 1:59:33.840 --> 1:59:35.680 all the kind of reasons why owk ends up being 1:59:35.680 --> 1:59:37.640 the best. And he also vowed to not kill a 1:59:37.680 --> 1:59:40.560 white till until he's seventy. I changed my mind. My 1:59:40.600 --> 1:59:42.400 good buddy Randy Milligan where he cut the three down, 1:59:42.440 --> 1:59:45.160 invited me to Kansas and he's got some some good bucks. 1:59:45.200 --> 1:59:47.040 I'm gonna entertain that. But home. You're not gonna do 1:59:47.120 --> 1:59:48.960 that before we go coust deer hunting? Are you? No? 1:59:49.120 --> 1:59:51.840 After it? I'll be like, if I'm with you, that'll 1:59:51.840 --> 1:59:55.120 be your first white tail? How I spot it? I 1:59:55.160 --> 1:59:58.240 hope you do too, obviously, Yeah, I got felt you'd 1:59:58.280 --> 2:00:01.760 be crazy to turn down on Randy's place. Oh at 2:00:01.840 --> 2:00:04.640 that place is what dreams are made of when it 2:00:04.720 --> 2:00:08.480 comes to white tail chiger habitat. I'll go in there 2:00:08.480 --> 2:00:10.880 in the winter. I just say, chiggers in the fall 2:00:10.920 --> 2:00:12.480 should be down right? You have. But what I'm gonna 2:00:12.520 --> 2:00:15.200 do when we do this line one turkey hunt giveaway. 2:00:15.920 --> 2:00:20.320 I'm gonna, um probably carry a bucket of promethron and 2:00:21.760 --> 2:00:23.960 like a wash tub of around. You know, I'm gonna 2:00:23.960 --> 2:00:26.760 stand in that tub. I'm gonna carry it around, set 2:00:26.840 --> 2:00:28.800 that tub down, and stand in that tub hunt out 2:00:28.840 --> 2:00:32.360 of it. That's my plan. That's my hunt plan. It's 2:00:32.360 --> 2:00:37.160 a chickerbike giveaway, all right. So then Jason, we'll have 2:00:37.240 --> 2:00:39.640 you back on when we do our we hunt coups 2:00:39.720 --> 2:00:43.240 here and um, thanks again to everybody and Sam, thanks 2:00:43.600 --> 2:00:46.080 getting to you for the wonderful job you're putting this 2:00:46.120 --> 2:01:00.360 episode together. So you guys p