WEBVTT - Will Our Political Guardrails Hold? With Steve Schmidt

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<v Speaker 1>Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question

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<v Speaker 1>today everyone. My guest is Steve Schmidt. He's a veteran

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<v Speaker 1>political strategist who shaped major campaigns for Republican heavyweights like

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<v Speaker 1>John McCain and George W. Bush. Now he has turned

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<v Speaker 1>his sharp eye on the party itself, emerging as a

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<v Speaker 1>very powerful voice against its transformation under Donald J.

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<v Speaker 2>Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>With Trump headed back to the White House, we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to try to make heads or tails of this chaotic

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<v Speaker 1>transition period. And it is chaotic, folks. We're looking ahead

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<v Speaker 1>at what twenty twenty five might hold with a few

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<v Speaker 1>glances back at what led to Trump's second term, from

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<v Speaker 1>media trust to democratic strategy and Trump's wild cabinet picks.

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<v Speaker 1>Steve has thoughts, and he is not holding back, and

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<v Speaker 1>he really likes to talk. Fair warning everyone. I love him, though,

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<v Speaker 1>so grab your favorite beverage. My drink of choice these

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<v Speaker 1>days is to kill on the rocks and settle in

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<v Speaker 1>for a candid, no holds barred conversation about America's next chapter.

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<v Speaker 1>Steve Schmidt, so happy to see you. I haven't talked

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<v Speaker 1>to you since election night, as we were processing the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that Donald Trump was going to win the election.

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<v Speaker 1>That was about three weeks ago, Steve, and I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>curious how you've been able to understand what happened in

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<v Speaker 1>this election and why.

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<v Speaker 2>Huh. Well, so, I think in the end that Donald

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<v Speaker 2>Trump is many, many, many things, but among them is

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<v Speaker 2>not a hypocrite. And that is the high card of

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<v Speaker 2>American life, the unpardonable sin that you're full of shit.

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<v Speaker 2>And at the end of the day, more clear now

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<v Speaker 2>than when we spoke, exampled by Joe Scarborough and Mika Brazinski,

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<v Speaker 2>is the performative nature of all of this. Soon will

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<v Speaker 2>be on the four year anniversary of January sixth. I

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<v Speaker 2>watched it when CNN reported it as a riot. I

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<v Speaker 2>tweeted out in that moment, that's not a riot, it's

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<v Speaker 2>an insurrection. It's exactly what it was. And the American

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<v Speaker 2>people in the end were unbothered by it. And so

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<v Speaker 2>we had a breach of the peaceful transition of power,

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<v Speaker 2>and we had a failure by the Biden administry and

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<v Speaker 2>by Joe Biden, both exceptionally and singularly, to communicate effectively

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<v Speaker 2>to the country when he became president two weeks after that,

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<v Speaker 2>that what happened was astonishing, extraordinary, and there was nothing

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<v Speaker 2>more important than it ever ever right, not happening again,

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<v Speaker 2>and so the entire focus of the administration should have

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<v Speaker 2>been that. Instead, he treated Donald Trump as a prop

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<v Speaker 2>to be used to turn out voters like Voldemort in

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<v Speaker 2>a Harry Potter movie. And so for years Trump was

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<v Speaker 2>the justification for Joe Biden and I'm breaking my promise

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<v Speaker 2>and running for four more years. During all of this,

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<v Speaker 2>what rose was oppositional to the media, that you were

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<v Speaker 2>part of the media, that you were part of held

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<v Speaker 2>power to account when you worked at a network, and

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<v Speaker 2>that media was deeply connected to what happened in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>seventy two, nineteen seventy three, in nineteen seventy four, when

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<v Speaker 2>a president of the United States said he was above

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<v Speaker 2>the law and inspired a generation. By the time we

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<v Speaker 2>get to where we are now, it's very different. When

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<v Speaker 2>Scarborough looks into the camera and he says to his

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<v Speaker 2>audience on what's supposed to be the most important public

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<v Speaker 2>affairs morning show in the country on a network that

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<v Speaker 2>Tom brokecaw worked at, to his audience, fuck you if

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<v Speaker 2>you don't believe what I'm telling you, which is the truth.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the best Biden we've ever had analytically and

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<v Speaker 2>intellectually in every single person, including me, who said that

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<v Speaker 2>that was bullshit was shouted down and smeared by somebody

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<v Speaker 2>in a position of power, or by somebody making money

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<v Speaker 2>from somebody in a position of power close to the

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<v Speaker 2>power in a political establishment that has been repudiated, has

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<v Speaker 2>been rejected and cast out in favor of Donald Trump,

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<v Speaker 2>and their takeaway from it, by and large three weeks

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<v Speaker 2>later is the American people are stupid, racist and we

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<v Speaker 2>did nothing wrong. So at this moment, fifty one days

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<v Speaker 2>before the inauguration, the American people are going to have

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<v Speaker 2>an experiential odyssey for which I think they have a

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<v Speaker 2>real lack of imagination, despite being warned about it, despite

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<v Speaker 2>having nine years to process it. And so we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to get to see the answer to the question spill

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<v Speaker 2>out in real time about what happens next when a

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<v Speaker 2>Pete Hegseth is the Secretary of Defense, when a man

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<v Speaker 2>who wants to bring back polio in smallpox, like Robert F.

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<v Speaker 2>Kennedy becomes the head of the public health services. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to end up tragically and badly. There will

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<v Speaker 2>be a lot of harm. But in a democracy, you

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<v Speaker 2>get the government you deserve. I'm sorry for the long answer,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's what happened.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let me pull apart some of the things you

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<v Speaker 1>just claimed because it was a long answer, Steve, And

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<v Speaker 1>is it really fair to put the onus on Joe

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<v Speaker 1>Biden for Donald try Trump's victory. Is what I'm hearing

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<v Speaker 1>you say that he should have been focused on the

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<v Speaker 1>insurrection and saying it was unacceptable. But he did have

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<v Speaker 1>to go about the business of running the country and

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<v Speaker 1>being president of the United States. You're faulting him for

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<v Speaker 1>not emphasizing that enough and for running a second time.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm faulting him for his titanic egotism that led to

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<v Speaker 2>his breaking of his implicit promise, which is I will

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<v Speaker 2>be a one term president and put the country first.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not what he did. The truth of the matter

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<v Speaker 2>is is the quiet part just wasn't set out loud

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<v Speaker 2>by anyone except for Dean Phillips, who's now patted again

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<v Speaker 2>on the back by all of his colleagues who knew

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<v Speaker 2>what he was saying was true, then attacked him when

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<v Speaker 2>he set it out loud outside the green room. And

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<v Speaker 2>now that it's been proven true. It can be talked

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<v Speaker 2>again about in private.

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<v Speaker 1>When you say something has been proven true, Steve, you're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about Joe Biden's inability to run the government. Is

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<v Speaker 1>that what you're referring to.

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<v Speaker 2>To communicate, to talk to inspire, to lead, to make

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<v Speaker 2>it up the full set of stairs on Air Force

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<v Speaker 2>one in an urgent moment. And so there was a

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<v Speaker 2>moment in history in the country where the president was

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<v Speaker 2>incapacitated by a stroke.

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<v Speaker 1>President Wilson, right, and Edith was running the government, and

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<v Speaker 1>he was propped up in the car, propped.

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<v Speaker 2>Up running the country. And Edith Wilson believes she did

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<v Speaker 2>the right thing. She sincerely and honestly believed. It really

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't a book. Well what do you do in that circumstance?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, she did in her estimation what Woodrow Wilson

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<v Speaker 2>would have wanted. But the point is the main point

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<v Speaker 2>is that everybody and the most that can never happen again.

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<v Speaker 2>And so over and over an over again, the American

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<v Speaker 2>people were told things Joe Biden's FDR, the economy's the

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<v Speaker 2>best it's ever been, Bidenomics. You know what, the American people,

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<v Speaker 2>working people in the country, forty percent of which don't

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<v Speaker 2>have four hundred dollars available, don't like being lectured by

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<v Speaker 2>millionaires on television telling them how great it is. They said, fu,

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<v Speaker 2>and they voted for Trump because the economy wasn't great.

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<v Speaker 2>That was a figment of a bunch of elites imaginations

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<v Speaker 2>in New York and Washington. And we now have Trump

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<v Speaker 2>in the White House. That's one reason. That's one thing.

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<v Speaker 2>He did Afghanistan, completing total incompetence on the withdrawal, and

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<v Speaker 2>he was beaten about the head on it for four

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<v Speaker 2>straight years. Joe Biden said that the border was secure?

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<v Speaker 2>Was the border secure? It was not secure. Adult life

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<v Speaker 2>and I may have said this on election night requires

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<v Speaker 2>you to hold multiple contradictory thoughts. Trump is the most

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<v Speaker 2>prolific liar in American history. But if the country thinks

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<v Speaker 2>he's the most honest president we've ever had, because there's

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<v Speaker 2>no filtered thought. But when you apply the test about

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<v Speaker 2>who's telling the truth, who's really honest, who was telling

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<v Speaker 2>the truth about the border, who was telling the truth

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<v Speaker 2>about the economy, who was telling the truth about what

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<v Speaker 2>happened in Afghanistan? Who was telling the truth about Biden's capacity?

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<v Speaker 2>It was Donald Trump, not Joe Biden, and the problem

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<v Speaker 2>with that strategically, if your foundation is the opposition party

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<v Speaker 2>to Donald Trump is built on a sandbox, on mush

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<v Speaker 2>on the same type of Trump in dishonesty, you rail against,

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<v Speaker 2>you lose, and that's what happened.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me ask you about the role of the media,

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<v Speaker 1>because you point out Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzenski as

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<v Speaker 1>sort of the consummate media, I guess enablers in some ways.

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<v Speaker 1>Talk about that and the role you believe they played

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<v Speaker 1>in turning many voters against Joe Biden and Kamala Harris

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<v Speaker 1>and into the arms of Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think that enough people watch the show that

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<v Speaker 2>it determines outcomes. What it does is shape a narrative, right.

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<v Speaker 2>It creates a choke point in the artery of information

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<v Speaker 2>around what you can say and what you can't say

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<v Speaker 2>in the acceptable speech lane, in the truth lane. At

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<v Speaker 2>a moment in American politics that some of us are

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<v Speaker 2>trying to say is urgent, is exigent, and is a crisis.

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<v Speaker 2>And when you watch Joe Biden perform by twenty twenty two,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three, and you appreciate what the central line

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<v Speaker 2>of attack is and you look at the reality that

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<v Speaker 2>it's clear if you have competency with regard to being

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<v Speaker 2>able to assess the landscape of a presidential campaign, you

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<v Speaker 2>can do that that Biden's in a lot of trouble.

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<v Speaker 2>And what Joe Biden got from Joe Scarborough, his friend,

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't favorable coverage, sympathetic coverage. Joe Scarborough decided, I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 2>wear three hats, I'm gonna be the guy on the show,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna be the president's friend, and I'm gonna be

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<v Speaker 2>his political advisor. And he was. And what's special about

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<v Speaker 2>the United States is the and I really mean this,

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<v Speaker 2>the genius of the people who founded the country. They

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<v Speaker 2>were imperfect, they weren't just, but man, were they fucking brilliant.

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<v Speaker 2>And they left us something called the First Amendment. And

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<v Speaker 2>what the First Amendment guarantees is that the next era

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<v Speaker 2>of journalism in America will be bottom up. And from

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<v Speaker 2>this bottom up journalism will come the accountability, will come

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<v Speaker 2>the challenge, and will come the information the American people

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<v Speaker 2>need to have so that the next time they get

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<v Speaker 2>a choice, which they'll have again, they can say time

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<v Speaker 2>to turn around and change direction.

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<v Speaker 1>If you want to get smarter every morning with a

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<v Speaker 1>breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and

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<v Speaker 1>wellness and pop culture. Sign up for our daily newsletter,

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<v Speaker 1>Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about these cabinet picks, Steve, because Chris Coons of Delaware,

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<v Speaker 1>a Democrat, described it as a reality show casting call,

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<v Speaker 1>and there were a slew of people named over the weekend.

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump doesn't want FBI background checks, he wants recess appointments,

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<v Speaker 1>so the Senate doesn't even have to confirm these people.

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<v Speaker 1>And there are a lot of questions about some of

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<v Speaker 1>these folks. From RFK Junior Telsey Gavard Pete Hegseth. I

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<v Speaker 1>thought Maureen Dowd's column was good this weekend when she

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<v Speaker 1>said is Donald Trump protecting women or predators? Because there

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<v Speaker 1>is a thread amongst some of these people in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of the allegations they have faced. So, as you've watched

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<v Speaker 1>these people be named and cabinet positions, other power full

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<v Speaker 1>positions in the government, what has your reaction been shocking?

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<v Speaker 2>It's not surprising as shocking, Pete Hegsath cannot be must

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<v Speaker 2>not be in the chain of command for the release

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<v Speaker 2>of nuclear weapons with his white nationalist tattoos stamped on

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<v Speaker 2>his chest. The answer is no. Now. If the United

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<v Speaker 2>States Senate is unable to deliver the no with an

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<v Speaker 2>assertion of its coequal power under the American system, that

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<v Speaker 2>means we're in a crisis. If Trump appoints all of

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<v Speaker 2>these people, these misfits, the disordered ones, absent FBI investigations,

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<v Speaker 2>which is reckless, but through a recess process with the

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<v Speaker 2>implicit approval of Republican senators objectively, in that moment, I

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<v Speaker 2>could make an argument that the American Republic has fallen.

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<v Speaker 1>The big question is what will these senators do? And

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's a big question mark at this juncture,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't know what do you think reading the tea leaves, Steve,

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<v Speaker 1>do you think they are going to give Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 1>a green light? Or are they going to say our

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<v Speaker 1>role is to advise and consent and we need to

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<v Speaker 1>fully vet these individuals before they're put in these positions

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<v Speaker 1>of incredible power.

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<v Speaker 2>So I completely appreciate the ministerial part of this. If

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<v Speaker 2>you're a senator to say, I'm not going to prejudge

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<v Speaker 2>Nay Pete Hagsath, Tulca Gabbard we're going to wait for

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<v Speaker 2>the confirmation hearings. I'm going to examine them, and I

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<v Speaker 2>get the politics of that. There is nothing, not a

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<v Speaker 2>single thing that any sentient US senator needs to know

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<v Speaker 2>regarding these people's on fitness that isn't available right now.

0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.600
<v Speaker 2>In this moment, you had a guy like Pete Hegseth, Right,

0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:15.199
<v Speaker 2>you look at all these people. I was talking to

0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:17.240
<v Speaker 2>someone like, who would you stop? If you can only

0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:21.360
<v Speaker 2>stop one, which one would it be? And so I've

0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.840
<v Speaker 2>talked to like fifteen people about this, right, I've had

0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.520
<v Speaker 2>great conversations on this to some of these people all

0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.760
<v Speaker 2>over the world. And I was talking to one of

0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.960
<v Speaker 2>the I think I don't think he would mind. I

0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.760
<v Speaker 2>was talking to John Nichols at the Nation magazine, and

0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.479
<v Speaker 2>I think it's one of the smartest, brightest, most thoughtful people.

0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.680
<v Speaker 2>And we came to the same conclusion, right, which is

0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.040
<v Speaker 2>heg Seth, which is, if you were Captain Benson, you

0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.359
<v Speaker 2>would follow the bread comes in the clues to the

0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:52.320
<v Speaker 2>nuclear weapons. That job comes with nuclear weapons command and control.

0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.359
<v Speaker 2>You want a lieutenant colonel following Pete Hegseeth around with

0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.480
<v Speaker 2>the launch codes for the nuclear weapons. He gets to

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:04.760
<v Speaker 2>turn the key with the president, right, right, you know?

0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:10.399
<v Speaker 2>Uh no. So you look at all these people and

0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.800
<v Speaker 2>I try to imagine, like what could go wrong, what

0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.400
<v Speaker 2>could go right? And I look at some of them

0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:22.480
<v Speaker 2>like a Gabbard, there's nothing that can go right. A

0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:27.440
<v Speaker 2>hag Seth, there's nothing that can go right. A Bobby Kennedy. Right,

0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:31.680
<v Speaker 2>he could be in pharmaceutical advertising. But polio's coming back,

0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.920
<v Speaker 2>so I'm against him too, right, We and and and

0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:40.920
<v Speaker 2>and Christy noan Christine, No, we haven't even talked about her, right,

0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:45.280
<v Speaker 2>Like the whole shooting of the dog. And I'm a

0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.440
<v Speaker 2>dog lover, right, I have like dogs are a big

0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.240
<v Speaker 2>part of my life, a lot of big part of

0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:53.359
<v Speaker 2>like a lot of lives of Americans. She confessed to

0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.800
<v Speaker 2>shooting the dog because the dog embarrassed her at a

0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.200
<v Speaker 2>at a hunting party. And she just had the dog

0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:01.479
<v Speaker 2>loose in the back of a pickup truck, so of

0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:05.000
<v Speaker 2>course it jumped out because it wasn't trained to sitting there,

0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:08.480
<v Speaker 2>and she killed it. And we want to make we

0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:15.879
<v Speaker 2>want to make her the head of a gigantic federal

0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:22.000
<v Speaker 2>police bureaucracy. It should be ninety eight to nothing. Send

0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.840
<v Speaker 2>us somebody new that's not going to happen. But with

0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:29.240
<v Speaker 2>regard to those people, in the scenario that you're laying out,

0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.600
<v Speaker 2>what you're really talking about is you should start with

0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:38.720
<v Speaker 2>a hard no of all of the Democrats, plus Murkowski

0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:44.440
<v Speaker 2>and Collins, if they are who everybody seems to think

0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:48.479
<v Speaker 2>they are, which isn't in a position of agreement with

0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:53.000
<v Speaker 2>the Democrats, but serious people, but of course they would be.

0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:53.080
<v Speaker 1>No.

0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:58.639
<v Speaker 2>Sullivan in Alaska is a Marine Corps colonel in his

0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.880
<v Speaker 2>previous life. Is U S Senator? Does he think it's

0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:06.080
<v Speaker 2>okay for Pete Hegseth, who's regardless of whether he raped

0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.040
<v Speaker 2>the woman or not that he's been accused of by

0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:12.840
<v Speaker 2>our of raping or right that the police reports make clear,

0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:18.760
<v Speaker 2>he's a dipshit of the highest variety. Right, he shouldn't.

0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:22.000
<v Speaker 2>He shouldn't. He's not eligible to be an officer in

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:26.000
<v Speaker 2>the junior class at West Point with that type of conduct.

0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:32.720
<v Speaker 2>It's unbecoming. Right. So, honestly, Robert Kennedy, right, is interesting

0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.040
<v Speaker 2>right of all of these So for example, and I

0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:38.560
<v Speaker 2>this is the one. I can argue this all day.

0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.200
<v Speaker 2>But what I'm most interested about with regard to him

0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:47.360
<v Speaker 2>is is two things He's declared war on the sugar

0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:52.560
<v Speaker 2>soda industry, and they're gearing up like in Washington, like

0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.280
<v Speaker 2>right now, right if there was still functional journalism, like

0:20:56.440 --> 0:21:01.040
<v Speaker 2>every PR agency, right they are, they're going right now

0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 2>in anticipation that rfks and he got in there right

0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:09.160
<v Speaker 2>for the soda war. The other thing, right, I find

0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.320
<v Speaker 2>fascinating is RFK said no more and he can do this.

0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:15.280
<v Speaker 2>He can get rid of it pretty easily, no more

0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.800
<v Speaker 2>pharmaceutical advertising. So it's just to me, it's just.

0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:23.080
<v Speaker 1>Fascinating, right send to play devil's advocate. What would be

0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:29.480
<v Speaker 1>wrong with defenestrating the pharmaceutical industry's ability.

0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.639
<v Speaker 2>For it completely for it? My question would be, do

0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:35.160
<v Speaker 2>you have to bring back polio and do it? Right?

0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:36.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't, right, I think.

0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.600
<v Speaker 1>I think the scary thing about RFK Junior is to

0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:47.440
<v Speaker 1>paint all pharmaceutical companies with a broad brush when they

0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:54.200
<v Speaker 1>have developed life saving, life changing drugs that are helping people. Yes,

0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.560
<v Speaker 1>I understand, we want to look at the core problems

0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:01.040
<v Speaker 1>that are making people sick, so we don'tcessarily always have

0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:04.320
<v Speaker 1>to rely on pharmaceuticals. But they've done a lot of

0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:10.240
<v Speaker 1>great things like vaccines and curing polio and the HPV vaccine,

0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:12.800
<v Speaker 1>et cetera, et cetera. And I think it's sort of

0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:16.400
<v Speaker 1>frightening to have someone who's the head of the Department

0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:21.520
<v Speaker 1>of Health and Human Services, which oversees the FDA, the CDC,

0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:26.879
<v Speaker 1>the NIH, Medicare and Medicaid services. Although I guess doctor

0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:30.479
<v Speaker 1>Oz is going to be doing that, But to have

0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:34.359
<v Speaker 1>someone who is so anti pharmaceutical doesn't sit well with

0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:34.920
<v Speaker 1>me either.

0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:42.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm listening to you. My existence. My grandfather was

0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:47.880
<v Speaker 2>a twin, and he and his twin both lost their

0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:55.560
<v Speaker 2>first wives and children in childbirth. My father was his

0:22:55.680 --> 0:23:00.760
<v Speaker 2>son by a second marriage. My grandfather's brother, I was

0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:04.480
<v Speaker 2>a D Day paratrooper. When I met him, was in

0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:07.640
<v Speaker 2>a wheelchair, not from war rooms, but from polio, which

0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:13.320
<v Speaker 2>he got in the nineteen fifties. Right, suffering, suffering, Right,

0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:17.159
<v Speaker 2>that default position of humanity since the beginning of time,

0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:22.919
<v Speaker 2>alleviated by profound leaps forward in science. Now, for my

0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:29.840
<v Speaker 2>entire political career, right, let's call it. Between age twenty

0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:34.639
<v Speaker 2>five and forty, big Pharma was the target of the

0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:38.480
<v Speaker 2>Democratic Party, right politically, big form of this big pharma

0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:43.320
<v Speaker 2>screwing you, YadA, YadA, YadA. Now, these companies are powerful,

0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:48.560
<v Speaker 2>billion dollar organizations. I have skepticism of anything big and powerful,

0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:52.480
<v Speaker 2>as I know you do, so should your audience. And

0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:56.160
<v Speaker 2>one of the worst ideas of the last thirty years

0:23:56.720 --> 0:23:59.800
<v Speaker 2>was to put pharmaceutical advertising on television. It wasn't a

0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:03.720
<v Speaker 2>lot out before. That shouldn't be allowed. And I do

0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:06.639
<v Speaker 2>think that some of the fights that RFK has picked,

0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:11.000
<v Speaker 2>some of his enemies have real teeth, and to have

0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:15.159
<v Speaker 2>somebody who's literally nuts enough to make a full charge

0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:18.800
<v Speaker 2>at them in Washington, DC is something I haven't seen

0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:20.920
<v Speaker 2>over the course of my career. And I'm just as

0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:24.679
<v Speaker 2>a practitioner of campaign politics who spend a lot of

0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:27.280
<v Speaker 2>time in this space, in this world and has watched

0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:29.560
<v Speaker 2>how it's all covered in the media as a political

0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:32.840
<v Speaker 2>science experiment. I just I can't. I could, I could

0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:34.919
<v Speaker 2>set up a podcast and cover it. I mean, I

0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:37.280
<v Speaker 2>just it's endlessly fascinating to me.

0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:42.200
<v Speaker 1>So do you think some of his desires to tackle

0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:47.720
<v Speaker 1>these intractable problems like the power or the size of

0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:53.160
<v Speaker 1>these big pharmaceutical bohemoths is in some ways a good thing?

0:24:55.680 --> 0:25:00.720
<v Speaker 2>I think that I live in a ski town and

0:25:00.800 --> 0:25:06.960
<v Speaker 2>in a city, and most people where I live, generally speaking,

0:25:07.280 --> 0:25:10.560
<v Speaker 2>are in pretty good shape. If you go to Disney

0:25:10.600 --> 0:25:14.560
<v Speaker 2>World or to Disneyland, you're going to find a real

0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:20.720
<v Speaker 2>cross section of America. It's frightening, it's unhealthy. If you

0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:24.560
<v Speaker 2>brought somebody back who is a medical doctor, who let's

0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:27.960
<v Speaker 2>say passed away in nineteen sixty five, and you showed

0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:32.640
<v Speaker 2>them what the American citizen looks like in his or

0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:37.480
<v Speaker 2>her aggregate in twenty twenty four, what would their reaction

0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:42.679
<v Speaker 2>be if we had to fight, right, we had a

0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:47.920
<v Speaker 2>draft World War two. It's the physical training, level of

0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:54.240
<v Speaker 2>physical fitness in the country. It's deplorable. The country is sick.

0:25:56.200 --> 0:26:01.639
<v Speaker 2>And I think that that is a fair observation. A

0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:04.479
<v Speaker 2>lot of it has to do with the culture, with

0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:08.000
<v Speaker 2>the food people are. By the way, this isn't this

0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:12.680
<v Speaker 2>isn't a European problem. This is an American problem, right.

0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:16.720
<v Speaker 2>This is an American political problem. Right. This is a

0:26:16.760 --> 0:26:19.119
<v Speaker 2>lot of corruption, a lot of power, a lot of

0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:24.240
<v Speaker 2>in these in these industries, and so kind of crazy

0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:29.440
<v Speaker 2>person observes something correctly, Does that mean that that person's

0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:35.960
<v Speaker 2>observation qualifies them to fix the thing that they've observed correctly?

0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:39.680
<v Speaker 2>Of course not, you know, he he is there are

0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:43.840
<v Speaker 2>there are kind of a couple qualification bars in these jobs,

0:26:43.960 --> 0:26:50.120
<v Speaker 2>right that, and they matter most on a sliding scale. Character, honesty, judgment.

0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Tell me about the bear again in Central Park, about

0:26:54.880 --> 0:27:00.280
<v Speaker 2>the whale, about the revelations and the diary. Now, now

0:27:00.359 --> 0:27:05.880
<v Speaker 2>let's look at your your ability to process reality information.

0:27:07.280 --> 0:27:10.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to tell you something. Okay, what I'd like

0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:13.360
<v Speaker 2>from you is a response about what we should do.

0:27:14.760 --> 0:27:17.920
<v Speaker 2>There's no evidence to suggest that Robert Kennedy has any

0:27:17.960 --> 0:27:22.320
<v Speaker 2>capacity to know what to do in any given situation.

0:27:23.320 --> 0:27:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Can't process information. It's bad judgment and a rotten character,

0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:29.359
<v Speaker 2>and so he's unfit.

0:27:29.920 --> 0:27:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think, I think to your point, Robert F.

0:27:32.359 --> 0:27:35.399
<v Speaker 1>Kennedy Junior is a mixed bag. I think he says

0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:39.920
<v Speaker 1>some things that are true about chronic disease in this country,

0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:44.960
<v Speaker 1>about pesticides, about some of the things that so on

0:27:45.080 --> 0:27:48.760
<v Speaker 1>in this country that are keeping people unhealthy. On the

0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:52.040
<v Speaker 1>other hand, you know, there are things that he says

0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:56.359
<v Speaker 1>that are really scary about vaccines. He went to Samoa,

0:27:56.800 --> 0:27:58.880
<v Speaker 1>and I don't know if you've read that story.

0:27:58.760 --> 0:28:00.119
<v Speaker 2>Killed a lot of people, kill.

0:28:00.200 --> 0:28:04.480
<v Speaker 1>A lot of us died, and and there are other

0:28:04.560 --> 0:28:08.480
<v Speaker 1>positions he has taken that are really scary too, So.

0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:11.840
<v Speaker 2>He's got let me like I just like one he

0:28:11.960 --> 0:28:16.240
<v Speaker 2>will get people will die. People will die, right if

0:28:16.240 --> 0:28:19.440
<v Speaker 2>someone like him runs the public health services, right, And

0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:22.320
<v Speaker 2>it's like one of the things I find most curious

0:28:22.359 --> 0:28:25.040
<v Speaker 2>about this era. I say, this is like a Gen

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:29.960
<v Speaker 2>X or fifty four. There's a lot more sensitivity today.

0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Some of it's good than there used to be, but

0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:40.520
<v Speaker 2>there's a real current in the culture that if you

0:28:41.160 --> 0:28:45.640
<v Speaker 2>talk to somebody about consequences, there's just like a real

0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:48.560
<v Speaker 2>resistance right to the concept.

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:49.640
<v Speaker 1>What do you mean.

0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:53.680
<v Speaker 2>I was in a restaurant and in a waiter a

0:28:53.680 --> 0:28:57.040
<v Speaker 2>couple of weeks ago, spilled four drinks on me and

0:28:57.080 --> 0:28:59.080
<v Speaker 2>I didn't, but he was. He was a young guy.

0:28:59.280 --> 0:29:02.840
<v Speaker 2>It's like twenty three. And the first thing he says

0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:07.280
<v Speaker 2>to me, he goes, it was the tray. It was

0:29:07.320 --> 0:29:11.320
<v Speaker 2>the tray, and I just I grew up in a

0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:16.360
<v Speaker 2>place and in a time it wasn't the tray, it

0:29:16.400 --> 0:29:22.320
<v Speaker 2>was you, Right, I wasn't mad. Shit happens. But the

0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:27.080
<v Speaker 2>point is, in a world where nothing is ever anyone's fault,

0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:30.200
<v Speaker 2>it's not possible. I couldn't have spilled that drink on you.

0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:33.400
<v Speaker 2>It was the track. Did it, right, you know, it

0:29:33.440 --> 0:29:37.160
<v Speaker 2>was the tray in this world right in which our

0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:41.960
<v Speaker 2>politics takes place. Right, all of this is downrange from

0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:47.200
<v Speaker 2>culture incredibly. I mean, you're in the nine to eleven Museum, Katie,

0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:51.880
<v Speaker 2>that's you on the television. I remember watching it. That

0:29:51.960 --> 0:29:56.760
<v Speaker 2>was the most horrible day of my adult life, watching horror,

0:29:56.840 --> 0:29:59.880
<v Speaker 2>American horror on the screen. And it seems to me

0:30:00.760 --> 0:30:09.280
<v Speaker 2>quarter century later, just total amnesia, right, real numbness about

0:30:09.320 --> 0:30:11.959
<v Speaker 2>bad things that could happen. So, you know, we used

0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:14.720
<v Speaker 2>to there used to be movies right about what would

0:30:14.760 --> 0:30:17.479
<v Speaker 2>happen if there were two astronauts like stranded in space.

0:30:18.200 --> 0:30:20.280
<v Speaker 2>That's happening right now. No, just as a fuck right

0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:24.480
<v Speaker 2>at all? Right, right, except for like at NASA, And

0:30:24.520 --> 0:30:28.000
<v Speaker 2>so what I'm saying is with all of these people

0:30:29.240 --> 0:30:34.600
<v Speaker 2>is terrible, terrible things will happen. I know it will happen.

0:30:34.960 --> 0:30:39.040
<v Speaker 2>It's not a debate. If you take a guy who

0:30:39.120 --> 0:30:43.120
<v Speaker 2>doesn't believe in science and vaccines and medicine with a

0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:45.880
<v Speaker 2>track record of doing what he did in Samoa, of

0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:50.200
<v Speaker 2>course people are gonna die. Right if you politicize the

0:30:50.280 --> 0:30:55.160
<v Speaker 2>American military, Trump is at hour one right, all transgender

0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:58.880
<v Speaker 2>personnel or out the military. They'll be disqualified for military service.

0:30:59.080 --> 0:31:01.960
<v Speaker 2>They're gonna be medically discharged, all of them. Fifteen thousand.

0:31:02.560 --> 0:31:07.480
<v Speaker 2>He's going to fire the Joint Staff, right the chiefs,

0:31:07.480 --> 0:31:11.960
<v Speaker 2>the Chief of Naval Operations, Linda Franchetti, Admiral Fanchetti, first

0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:14.080
<v Speaker 2>woman to be Chief of Naval Operations, she's going to

0:31:14.080 --> 0:31:16.720
<v Speaker 2>be out. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who

0:31:16.840 --> 0:31:20.800
<v Speaker 2>was a confidant and friend of General Millet, he's going

0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:24.680
<v Speaker 2>to be out. Mark Wayne Mullin just put a hold

0:31:24.720 --> 0:31:29.000
<v Speaker 2>on promotion of the three star officer who's being promoted

0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:31.840
<v Speaker 2>to four star rank to take over US forces in Europe.

0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:35.160
<v Speaker 2>He's going to be out of the military. So you're

0:31:35.200 --> 0:31:38.800
<v Speaker 2>going to see a culling of the senior leadership of

0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:43.360
<v Speaker 2>the military, unlike anything that the country's seen since nineteen

0:31:43.600 --> 0:31:47.000
<v Speaker 2>thirty seven, thirty eight, thirty nine, when Marshall got the

0:31:47.040 --> 0:31:50.280
<v Speaker 2>military ready to fight the Second World War, and guys

0:31:50.320 --> 0:32:05.480
<v Speaker 2>like Eisenhower went from lieutenant colonel to Brevett major generals overnight.

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:17.720
<v Speaker 1>I also understand that there may be a mission to

0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:22.440
<v Speaker 1>court martial some of the high ranking military official Steve

0:32:22.560 --> 0:32:26.200
<v Speaker 1>who spoke ill of Donald Trump during the campaign of

0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:30.360
<v Speaker 1>course I'm talking about John Kelly and Mark Milly. General

0:32:30.440 --> 0:32:34.240
<v Speaker 1>Mattis did not. He did write a resignation letter, and

0:32:34.320 --> 0:32:37.719
<v Speaker 1>I think sort of you could read between the lines

0:32:37.760 --> 0:32:41.480
<v Speaker 1>what he was saying. But could he actually court martial

0:32:41.840 --> 0:32:44.400
<v Speaker 1>some of these individuals who spoke out against him.

0:32:44.840 --> 0:32:49.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he could recall them to active service and convene

0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:53.080
<v Speaker 2>a court martial under a uniform Code of Military Justice,

0:32:53.120 --> 0:32:57.040
<v Speaker 2>which is the military's legal system. That is a prosecution,

0:32:57.240 --> 0:33:01.280
<v Speaker 2>that is a kangaroo court prosecution all sorts of problems,

0:33:01.280 --> 0:33:06.440
<v Speaker 2>including the command influence or undue influence of the commander

0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:10.960
<v Speaker 2>in chief in the court martial. And of course that

0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:17.280
<v Speaker 2>court martial would be tried by a jury of Millie's peers,

0:33:18.120 --> 0:33:22.000
<v Speaker 2>who of course would not convict him, and it would

0:33:22.040 --> 0:33:25.720
<v Speaker 2>be found not guilty. Right, So that's an example. Could

0:33:25.720 --> 0:33:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Trump do it? Yeah? Is there a release valve? There is.

0:33:33.080 --> 0:33:35.440
<v Speaker 2>We don't live in the Third Reich. We live in America.

0:33:35.600 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 2>So Millie would go have his court martial. I think

0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:43.280
<v Speaker 2>Jackie Robinson was court martialed, right, It will be as

0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:46.360
<v Speaker 2>unjust as that a lot of people have faced on

0:33:46.560 --> 0:33:49.680
<v Speaker 2>just court martial in the history of the military for

0:33:49.800 --> 0:33:55.520
<v Speaker 2>racial reasons. A lot of them. The military justice system, though,

0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:59.080
<v Speaker 2>like the American justice system, which it's much a part of,

0:33:59.560 --> 0:34:03.920
<v Speaker 2>is resilton. And so you don't go to get Milly

0:34:04.040 --> 0:34:08.600
<v Speaker 2>up against the wall. Millie's going to be acquitted, and

0:34:08.719 --> 0:34:14.400
<v Speaker 2>with that acquittal will be a rebuke morally of the

0:34:14.440 --> 0:34:21.320
<v Speaker 2>outrageousness of the action. And so that's how it works.

0:34:21.880 --> 0:34:26.000
<v Speaker 1>In that case. You're describing Steve guardrails that exist, but

0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:31.400
<v Speaker 1>there are few and far between guardrails currently in place

0:34:32.120 --> 0:34:37.120
<v Speaker 1>with a Trump presidency and a Senate controlled by Republicans,

0:34:37.120 --> 0:34:41.480
<v Speaker 1>a House controlled by Republicans, and of course a Justice

0:34:41.520 --> 0:34:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Department controlled by Republicans. So what are your biggest fears

0:34:46.680 --> 0:34:50.200
<v Speaker 1>as you look toward these next four years?

0:34:50.680 --> 0:34:54.399
<v Speaker 2>I guess I have a slight dissent, and I think

0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:59.520
<v Speaker 2>it's a really important in distinction, which is this, The

0:34:59.600 --> 0:35:03.560
<v Speaker 2>guard are exactly the same as they've ever been. They're

0:35:03.600 --> 0:35:09.319
<v Speaker 2>exactly the same. Nothing has changed. Constitutions, the constitution, the

0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:13.319
<v Speaker 2>votes are the votes right, All the facts of what's right,

0:35:13.440 --> 0:35:17.160
<v Speaker 2>what's wrong, what's decent, what's not, what's crazy, what's not,

0:35:17.280 --> 0:35:26.919
<v Speaker 2>nothing has changed. What's changed is the incentives and maybe

0:35:27.480 --> 0:35:32.960
<v Speaker 2>the tolerance that a Bill Haggerty from Tennessee would go

0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:35.800
<v Speaker 2>out and say, we don't for the most sensitive jobs

0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:39.160
<v Speaker 2>of the US government. I don't care whatsoever who these

0:35:39.200 --> 0:35:41.560
<v Speaker 2>people are, what they'll do, who they're on the payroll,

0:35:41.600 --> 0:35:44.319
<v Speaker 2>if they're compromised, if they're not, don't give a shit

0:35:44.480 --> 0:35:50.600
<v Speaker 2>at all. I trust Trump, And so if there are

0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:53.640
<v Speaker 2>enough of those people, then Trump will get to do

0:35:54.560 --> 0:36:01.960
<v Speaker 2>whatever he wants. Now, the recess appointment is a bigger deal, right,

0:36:02.000 --> 0:36:08.440
<v Speaker 2>because that's a systemic assault. If you take all of

0:36:08.480 --> 0:36:13.239
<v Speaker 2>these unqualified people with the acquiescence of the Senate, who

0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:18.160
<v Speaker 2>seeks to evade their complete lack of fitness by evading

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:24.880
<v Speaker 2>their constitutional role, by giving away their coequal status in

0:36:24.920 --> 0:36:30.400
<v Speaker 2>the American government with an acting capitulation, well, I would argue,

0:36:30.440 --> 0:36:34.200
<v Speaker 2>like I said earlier, the republic has fallen, right, And

0:36:34.239 --> 0:36:39.720
<v Speaker 2>it's not about Republicans and checks and bounces about whether

0:36:41.160 --> 0:36:45.359
<v Speaker 2>ten to fifteen people. We know who those people are, right,

0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:51.960
<v Speaker 2>we know their names. Will they process somebody right on

0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:57.360
<v Speaker 2>national television that's clearly unfit? Right? I mean these people

0:36:57.360 --> 0:37:00.680
<v Speaker 2>were flying a commercial jetliner. You got to leave your

0:37:00.760 --> 0:37:06.279
<v Speaker 2>kid with him, right, whatever circumstance, analogy that works for you, Right,

0:37:06.880 --> 0:37:11.640
<v Speaker 2>I think most people would be like those people in

0:37:11.719 --> 0:37:16.360
<v Speaker 2>these positions. The great question in our politics is just,

0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:18.960
<v Speaker 2>really you're going to say yes to that?

0:37:19.520 --> 0:37:23.799
<v Speaker 1>Are you talking about Republican senators like Susan Collins and

0:37:24.000 --> 0:37:25.160
<v Speaker 1>Lisa Murkowski?

0:37:25.239 --> 0:37:27.440
<v Speaker 2>And absolutely? Of course?

0:37:27.640 --> 0:37:30.000
<v Speaker 1>Of course who else comes to mind, Steve.

0:37:30.400 --> 0:37:36.320
<v Speaker 2>Sullivan in Alaska. There's been a couple of them, Mitch McConnell.

0:37:36.800 --> 0:37:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Does Mitch McConnell believe that Pete Hegsa is fit to

0:37:42.200 --> 0:37:45.399
<v Speaker 2>be the Secretary of Defense? I don't think he has

0:37:45.440 --> 0:37:49.080
<v Speaker 2>any core right, but I don't know what he's going

0:37:49.160 --> 0:37:49.560
<v Speaker 2>to do.

0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:52.880
<v Speaker 1>And he has said he felt liberated not having to

0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:54.160
<v Speaker 1>be the majority leader.

0:37:55.400 --> 0:37:59.000
<v Speaker 2>And there's nothing that makes me crazier than the sense

0:37:59.560 --> 0:38:03.359
<v Speaker 2>that I would the Senate majority leader. But now I'm liberated.

0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:04.040
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:08.880
<v Speaker 2>If you have power, you can exercise it how you wish,

0:38:08.920 --> 0:38:11.279
<v Speaker 2>when you wish, for whatever cause you wish. And that's

0:38:11.320 --> 0:38:15.399
<v Speaker 2>why people like John McCain when he was at his best.

0:38:15.960 --> 0:38:18.719
<v Speaker 2>The issue here is right, it's not there's no there's

0:38:18.719 --> 0:38:22.160
<v Speaker 2>nothing to discover. There's new bad stuff that will come out,

0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:25.640
<v Speaker 2>for sure, because that's who these people are, but there's

0:38:25.719 --> 0:38:31.560
<v Speaker 2>nothing right that will make them more wet, more saturated.

0:38:32.040 --> 0:38:35.200
<v Speaker 2>By unfitness than they already are. So the question is,

0:38:35.200 --> 0:38:39.319
<v Speaker 2>is really like Susan Collins right? And three more? Are

0:38:39.320 --> 0:38:44.800
<v Speaker 2>you kidding me? Her him? Christine?

0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:49.320
<v Speaker 1>No, come on, I want to ask you about Pam

0:38:49.400 --> 0:38:53.480
<v Speaker 1>BONDI what reasons do you think she should not be confirmed?

0:38:54.120 --> 0:39:01.360
<v Speaker 2>Because in twenty twenty three she said that the prosecutors

0:39:02.280 --> 0:39:08.600
<v Speaker 2>and the Justice Department officials who prosecuted Trump should themselves

0:39:08.680 --> 0:39:15.839
<v Speaker 2>be prosecuted because for revenge. We live in a nation

0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:19.839
<v Speaker 2>where the rule of law is supreme. Donald Trump is

0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:25.560
<v Speaker 2>prosecuted because he broke the law and he was found guilty.

0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:31.320
<v Speaker 2>And then the Supreme Court held that the president has immunity, which,

0:39:31.360 --> 0:39:33.799
<v Speaker 2>though is a new and novel concept and all the

0:39:33.800 --> 0:39:39.399
<v Speaker 2>broad scope of American jurisprudence and history, the Court does

0:39:39.440 --> 0:39:42.600
<v Speaker 2>in fact have the power to say so and to

0:39:42.680 --> 0:39:45.239
<v Speaker 2>make it so, and now it is so. And so

0:39:45.320 --> 0:39:51.000
<v Speaker 2>those charges have been dismissed because of the complexity, the

0:39:51.120 --> 0:39:59.080
<v Speaker 2>layerings of the American justice system that always offer another

0:39:59.320 --> 0:40:05.839
<v Speaker 2>opportunity unity for another look on a question of law.

0:40:06.400 --> 0:40:09.799
<v Speaker 2>So I would be, despite not being someone who would

0:40:09.800 --> 0:40:12.440
<v Speaker 2>ever pick him, if I was in the Senate and

0:40:12.520 --> 0:40:15.880
<v Speaker 2>I had a vote, I would be like yes to

0:40:16.040 --> 0:40:20.439
<v Speaker 2>Marco Rubio, I would be no to all of these

0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:24.920
<v Speaker 2>other people, because there's no case to be made that

0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:30.600
<v Speaker 2>these people can run these agencies, do these jobs, and

0:40:30.640 --> 0:40:34.880
<v Speaker 2>these are life and death jobs. They're ludicrous appointments.

0:40:35.200 --> 0:40:37.960
<v Speaker 1>What I think is interesting is so many of these

0:40:38.040 --> 0:40:43.200
<v Speaker 1>people have absolutely no expertise in the agencies they are

0:40:43.239 --> 0:40:44.720
<v Speaker 1>being tasked to run.

0:40:45.920 --> 0:40:52.640
<v Speaker 2>There's no difference, none, between making Pete Hegseth the Secretary

0:40:52.680 --> 0:40:57.919
<v Speaker 2>of Defense and having an Apprentice episode and making Meat

0:40:57.960 --> 0:41:02.360
<v Speaker 2>Love or Little John or both of them together with

0:41:02.480 --> 0:41:08.359
<v Speaker 2>Gary Busey the Secretary of Defense. It's the same thing.

0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:12.759
<v Speaker 2>When Donald Trump was on the Apprentice set, he assembled

0:41:12.800 --> 0:41:18.719
<v Speaker 2>a menagerie of characters that coagulated there same thing. And

0:41:18.760 --> 0:41:25.720
<v Speaker 2>those are the people that are his casting call him her, him,

0:41:26.120 --> 0:41:30.640
<v Speaker 2>and these people right have been put forward. There are

0:41:30.800 --> 0:41:36.319
<v Speaker 2>other people in the country, we call them senators. Their

0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:43.400
<v Speaker 2>job is to objectively look at those people, sayon and

0:41:43.480 --> 0:41:48.160
<v Speaker 2>the diplomatic way to do this, and Republicans will have

0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:52.080
<v Speaker 2>to do it this way, and they should be given

0:41:52.200 --> 0:41:58.280
<v Speaker 2>the space to do this by their democratic colleagues because

0:41:58.280 --> 0:42:02.880
<v Speaker 2>it's good for the country. Trump can never be wrong.

0:42:04.440 --> 0:42:05.520
<v Speaker 2>We've left that world.

0:42:05.840 --> 0:42:08.960
<v Speaker 1>What will happen to some of these senators, Steve, if

0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:11.960
<v Speaker 1>they vote not to confirm some of these people.

0:42:12.600 --> 0:42:16.400
<v Speaker 2>So what these senators their back door, of their escape

0:42:16.400 --> 0:42:19.880
<v Speaker 2>patch to be able to go out and say again,

0:42:20.800 --> 0:42:23.680
<v Speaker 2>because in this world Trump can never be wrong, is

0:42:23.719 --> 0:42:29.799
<v Speaker 2>that Trump didn't know Trump was ill served. Trump is

0:42:29.880 --> 0:42:35.120
<v Speaker 2>christ Like, he makes no mistakes ever. But there are

0:42:35.200 --> 0:42:39.759
<v Speaker 2>judases around Christ, and they are judases around Trump. And

0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:42.920
<v Speaker 2>it will be the Judas who is blamed, never Trump,

0:42:43.280 --> 0:42:47.120
<v Speaker 2>by a Republican senator, for sending Trump into a position

0:42:47.160 --> 0:42:51.200
<v Speaker 2>where Trump was humiliated. It isn't that Donald Trump knew

0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:55.000
<v Speaker 2>who mack Gates was. It was that Donald Trump just

0:42:55.040 --> 0:42:58.239
<v Speaker 2>found out who mack Gates was because Donald Trump was

0:42:58.280 --> 0:43:01.440
<v Speaker 2>badly served. Because of course, Donald Trump is an Ajenoux.

0:43:01.719 --> 0:43:06.200
<v Speaker 2>How could he have known. So it's important to appreciate

0:43:06.320 --> 0:43:13.279
<v Speaker 2>the performative aspects of all of this stuff. Right, if

0:43:13.320 --> 0:43:19.479
<v Speaker 2>the federal government shrank by some gigantic percentage and amount, right,

0:43:19.520 --> 0:43:22.760
<v Speaker 2>they're still going to be a need to deliver food

0:43:22.880 --> 0:43:27.440
<v Speaker 2>services to poor children four years from now. What's going

0:43:27.520 --> 0:43:31.759
<v Speaker 2>to be left behind is the nothingness that gives democrats

0:43:31.760 --> 0:43:36.400
<v Speaker 2>and progressives their golden age and golden opportunity because for

0:43:36.440 --> 0:43:38.799
<v Speaker 2>the first time in a long time, they get to

0:43:38.920 --> 0:43:43.640
<v Speaker 2>imagine something new, something different, how to deliver twenty first

0:43:43.680 --> 0:43:47.640
<v Speaker 2>century services to people who need it without having to

0:43:47.719 --> 0:43:51.279
<v Speaker 2>defend the broken institutions made in the nineteen fifties in

0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:54.239
<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixties that are going to be gone right, going

0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:56.759
<v Speaker 2>to be gone right by the time we get to

0:43:56.800 --> 0:43:58.520
<v Speaker 2>the end of the Trump presidency. But they're not going

0:43:58.600 --> 0:44:02.160
<v Speaker 2>to be gone by Elon Mosker or Ramaswami.

0:44:02.840 --> 0:44:06.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm taking away from this conversation Steve that you're pretty

0:44:06.360 --> 0:44:09.640
<v Speaker 1>stoked about this incoming crew of folks.

0:44:10.200 --> 0:44:14.520
<v Speaker 2>I think that was a joke, right, I think, you know,

0:44:14.600 --> 0:44:17.160
<v Speaker 2>John Lewis talked about this, right, you know, I don't

0:44:17.239 --> 0:44:20.719
<v Speaker 2>you know. My life overlapped with his. You know, I

0:44:20.880 --> 0:44:23.920
<v Speaker 2>went to Auschwitz with lv z L on the sixtieth

0:44:24.000 --> 0:44:28.040
<v Speaker 2>anniversary of its liberation when I worked in the White House.

0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:31.200
<v Speaker 2>And this is the time that I was born into.

0:44:32.080 --> 0:44:35.239
<v Speaker 2>I was born in nineteen seventy. I was ten years

0:44:35.280 --> 0:44:38.919
<v Speaker 2>old when Ronald Reagan became president. It's a long time ago. Now.

0:44:39.960 --> 0:44:44.560
<v Speaker 2>I was thirty when the millennia turned and Bill Clinton

0:44:44.640 --> 0:44:48.000
<v Speaker 2>was president. We were the most powerful nation in the

0:44:48.080 --> 0:44:51.960
<v Speaker 2>history of the world pre eminent in all things, to

0:44:52.120 --> 0:44:54.520
<v Speaker 2>such a degree that people were saying, we're at the

0:44:54.640 --> 0:44:59.480
<v Speaker 2>end of history. I've watched a lot happen over the

0:44:59.560 --> 0:45:02.360
<v Speaker 2>last years, and all I can say in this moment

0:45:02.400 --> 0:45:06.439
<v Speaker 2>for any American, our country's going to outlive all of us.

0:45:07.560 --> 0:45:11.520
<v Speaker 2>We'll never see the whole. We're never gonna get to

0:45:11.560 --> 0:45:16.640
<v Speaker 2>see the ending. We just won't, right. And I think

0:45:16.640 --> 0:45:22.239
<v Speaker 2>this is like so deeply important to appreciate in the

0:45:22.280 --> 0:45:28.600
<v Speaker 2>context of there are things bigger than us, and as

0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:32.279
<v Speaker 2>an American, there is nothing bigger than us than the

0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:37.080
<v Speaker 2>United States. And in our story, this chapter of it,

0:45:37.800 --> 0:45:41.319
<v Speaker 2>I think it's exciting to be part of it and

0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:45.240
<v Speaker 2>to oppose something that I think is deeply terrible, because

0:45:45.360 --> 0:45:51.160
<v Speaker 2>on the other side of it is something a lot better.

0:45:52.080 --> 0:45:59.799
<v Speaker 2>That's the greatness of the country. Lincoln was preceded by

0:45:59.840 --> 0:46:05.160
<v Speaker 2>the worst president in American history until Trump became president.

0:46:06.880 --> 0:46:12.040
<v Speaker 2>And so I think Trump is going to be a disaster, disaster,

0:46:13.160 --> 0:46:19.600
<v Speaker 2>but the country will endure, damage will be done, Terrible

0:46:19.680 --> 0:46:27.640
<v Speaker 2>consequences might happen, but one of the consequences that will

0:46:27.680 --> 0:46:35.120
<v Speaker 2>come from the disaster ahead is greatness that will emerge

0:46:35.120 --> 0:46:39.480
<v Speaker 2>from it. A greatness that didn't exist in the moment

0:46:41.239 --> 0:46:47.680
<v Speaker 2>when what's to come could have been prevented. Destiny did

0:46:47.719 --> 0:46:52.759
<v Speaker 2>not shape the events at hand like that. So I

0:46:52.800 --> 0:46:57.840
<v Speaker 2>think in this moment, opposing what is about to come

0:46:58.440 --> 0:47:02.799
<v Speaker 2>is a deep import and I'm excited to have a

0:47:02.840 --> 0:47:09.640
<v Speaker 2>small voice in that effort because for me, some people

0:47:09.680 --> 0:47:17.480
<v Speaker 2>are great at sports and some people love music and painting.

0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:21.200
<v Speaker 2>This is what I care about. There's nothing more important

0:47:21.239 --> 0:47:27.759
<v Speaker 2>to me outside of my family than the country. And

0:47:27.800 --> 0:47:31.360
<v Speaker 2>what that's come to mean to me over recent years

0:47:31.960 --> 0:47:34.880
<v Speaker 2>is not the partisan victory and the excitement of winning

0:47:34.920 --> 0:47:37.880
<v Speaker 2>a campaign when I was a young man, but about

0:47:37.880 --> 0:47:41.920
<v Speaker 2>the opportunities that everybody ought to have in a country.

0:47:41.960 --> 0:47:44.520
<v Speaker 2>That ought to mean when it comes to freedom, the

0:47:44.520 --> 0:47:49.080
<v Speaker 2>same thing for everybody, and that is very much on

0:47:49.239 --> 0:47:53.520
<v Speaker 2>the table right now, that question. And I could not

0:47:54.440 --> 0:47:58.000
<v Speaker 2>think of a better thing to do if I got

0:47:58.040 --> 0:48:03.799
<v Speaker 2>a day left, a week left, or thirty five years left,

0:48:04.160 --> 0:48:10.200
<v Speaker 2>than to talk about that right now, because what's been

0:48:10.239 --> 0:48:15.440
<v Speaker 2>handed down to us to preserve it makes stronger for

0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:20.920
<v Speaker 2>the next generation is of profound importance. There's three hundred

0:48:20.920 --> 0:48:24.680
<v Speaker 2>and forty million Americans alive, half of us who have

0:48:24.800 --> 0:48:28.600
<v Speaker 2>ever lived or alive right now, because there's only been

0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:31.719
<v Speaker 2>seven hundred million people in all the history of the

0:48:31.760 --> 0:48:36.440
<v Speaker 2>world since July fourth, seventeen seventy six who've been able

0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:40.080
<v Speaker 2>to say these words that mean more to me and

0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:43.120
<v Speaker 2>I think mean more to a lot of people in

0:48:43.200 --> 0:48:48.600
<v Speaker 2>the country than any other association in their life. And

0:48:48.640 --> 0:48:53.719
<v Speaker 2>it's this I am an American.

0:48:54.600 --> 0:48:58.239
<v Speaker 1>Steve Schmidt, thank you as always for talking with me.

0:48:58.520 --> 0:49:01.760
<v Speaker 1>I always appreciate our conversations. Thank you, Steve.

0:49:02.120 --> 0:49:04.560
<v Speaker 2>Great to be with you, always, always great to see you.

0:49:13.040 --> 0:49:16.239
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,

0:49:16.640 --> 0:49:19.120
<v Speaker 1>a subject you want us to cover, or you want

0:49:19.160 --> 0:49:22.520
<v Speaker 1>to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,

0:49:22.880 --> 0:49:26.080
<v Speaker 1>reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would

0:49:26.160 --> 0:49:29.200
<v Speaker 1>love to hear from you. Next Question is a production

0:49:29.320 --> 0:49:33.800
<v Speaker 1>of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me,

0:49:34.120 --> 0:49:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz,

0:49:39.280 --> 0:49:44.120
<v Speaker 1>and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian

0:49:44.200 --> 0:49:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,

0:49:49.480 --> 0:49:51.880
<v Speaker 1>or to sign up for my newsletter wake Up Call,

0:49:52.320 --> 0:49:55.240
<v Speaker 1>go to the description in the podcast app, or visit

0:49:55.320 --> 0:49:58.520
<v Speaker 1>us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me

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<v Speaker 1>on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more

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<v Speaker 1>podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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<v Speaker 1>wherever you listen to your favorite shows.