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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome the episode number eleven of The Hunting Collective.

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Speaker 1: I'm Ben O'Brien. We're joined this week by John Gale.

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Speaker 1: And John Gale is the conservation director for a group

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Speaker 1: called back Country Hunters and Anglers. And John is a

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Speaker 1: fifth generation Idaho and somebody who just grew up hunting

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Speaker 1: and fishing in the back country, and he's also engaged

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Speaker 1: in politics. I think among all the topics that we

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Speaker 1: want to touch on the Hunting Collective, politics is not

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Speaker 1: one of them, but the politics of hunting, the politics

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Speaker 1: of public lands is one of them, and maybe it's

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Speaker 1: the most important thing we could talk about. And what

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Speaker 1: makes John so qualified to talk about public lands is

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Speaker 1: that he's the conservation director for b h A. And

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Speaker 1: he's somebody who spent has spent his entire life working

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Speaker 1: on and pushing for conservation. He spent nine years of

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Speaker 1: the Wild National Wildlife Federation and was one of the

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Speaker 1: early members of b h A, a group that's if

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Speaker 1: you're not familiar with them, get familiar. We talked about

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Speaker 1: a lot of things we were in Idaho and his

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Speaker 1: home state, to cover everything public lands, because I think

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Speaker 1: not only should you know what public lands are and

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Speaker 1: how to use them. You should know where they came from,

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Speaker 1: who manages them, and why it's important to keep them around,

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Speaker 1: and also how we can keep them around. So I

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Speaker 1: think this conversation, although many of you may have no

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Speaker 1: idea who John is, is as important as any of

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Speaker 1: the other ten we've had on this podcast. So please

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Speaker 1: enjoy John Gayale from b h A Episode number eleven.

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Speaker 1: John Gale, how's it going good? How you doing? Man?

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Speaker 1: We're just drinking beer, that's right, And it's like nude

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Speaker 1: one o'clock do some day drinking? And what is it

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Speaker 1: a Wednesday? Thursday's wednes Thursday is Thursday Thursday? S I'm

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Speaker 1: way off right on your first beer? Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: don't even know. Well, we're in Idaho and we're here

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Speaker 1: for the BHA Rendezvous. For folks that don't know what

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Speaker 1: b h A is, you can tell them what b

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Speaker 1: h A is because absolutely thanks first for invite me

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. Here, Ben, it's my first podcast, so

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Speaker 1: you get to witness the stumbling, bumbling, droning first time

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Speaker 1: or here. That's why we have That's why the beer

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Speaker 1: is here. Like if we need to break and have

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Speaker 1: three or four more beers and loosen things up. We

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Speaker 1: can always do that if I get a little tight.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like a plan. So um, back Country Hunters

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Speaker 1: and Anglers was found around a campfire and Oregon back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand four. Really, uh, I think all things

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Speaker 1: that are good come from conversations with whiskey and beer

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Speaker 1: around a campfire late at night. And and this maybe

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Speaker 1: uh a little bias of me to say, but I

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Speaker 1: think this is one of the best camp fire conversations

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Speaker 1: that actually came into fruition. It wasn't just whiskey talking.

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Speaker 1: It turned into something real and turned into back Country

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Speaker 1: Hunters and Anglers, the fastest growing sportsman's organization in North America.

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Speaker 1: And we pride ourselves on being the sportsman's voice for

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Speaker 1: our wild public lands, waters and wildlife. And those those

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Speaker 1: souls around the camp fire back in two thousand four

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Speaker 1: really had a vision for bringing hunters and anglers that

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Speaker 1: care about all things wild together too conserve the back country,

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Speaker 1: to create an organization that was not just dedicated to

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Speaker 1: a single species, but dedicated to all species, and dedicated

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Speaker 1: to all forms of hunting and fishing and um and

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Speaker 1: not just specific ways of hunting or fishing or specif

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Speaker 1: of a species that people like to hunt and fish for,

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Speaker 1: but taking a look at what they cared about most,

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Speaker 1: which was wilderness, back country, the pristine areas. Anyone that

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Speaker 1: hunts the back country knows that the best populations of

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Speaker 1: fish and wildlife are in the wildest places with the

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Speaker 1: least amount of development, the least amount of disturbance, where

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Speaker 1: you have intact migratory corridors, not just terrestrial corridors were

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Speaker 1: big game migrate from winter range to summer range, but

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Speaker 1: intact aquatic corridors too, so so Anadramus species can swim

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Speaker 1: from the ocean and UH comingto tributaries and creeks to

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Speaker 1: spawn every year. And UH, salm and steelhead are incredibly

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Speaker 1: important to the Northwest. And I think that that vision

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Speaker 1: around the Oregon camp fire, you know, fed into what

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Speaker 1: we've become now, which is a robust organization that just

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Speaker 1: clipped twenty dues paying members. We have over two hundred

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand members and supporters that are with us online,

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Speaker 1: social media and giving us money every year. And UH

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Speaker 1: we had our our board meetings started today with our

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Speaker 1: national Board of Directors and UH and Ben, I think

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Speaker 1: you know that adding the chapters that we did today,

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Speaker 1: you know, bumped us up to the representation of thirty

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Speaker 1: nine states in the United States plus two Canadian provinces

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Speaker 1: Alberta and British Columbia's. And I wasn't around the camp

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Speaker 1: fire myself back in two thousand four, but I smelled

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Speaker 1: the smoke and I came running as fast as I

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Speaker 1: possibly could. And UH I joined the Colorado Chapter leadership

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Speaker 1: shortly after they were formed. And then I was asked

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Speaker 1: to join the National Board of Directors and I served

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Speaker 1: there for about five years, and UH helped lead the

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Speaker 1: search committee for the hiring of Lantani, who's the President

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Speaker 1: CEO now. And for me, it's um it's really amazing

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Speaker 1: to look back and reflect on where we were. Even

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Speaker 1: when I came into the organization where we didn't have

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Speaker 1: any professionals half UH, we were scrambling together the foundation

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Speaker 1: and the structure of what a real organization could be,

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Speaker 1: you know, developing by laws and starting to raise money

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Speaker 1: to hire staff. And and when we hired Land Taani

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Speaker 1: really catapulted the organization forward with UH someone at the

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Speaker 1: helm leading the charge. And and if if you if

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Speaker 1: you know Land and many of the listeners of your

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Speaker 1: podcast probably do. He's uh, he's really outspoken. Uh, he's

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Speaker 1: got a fire in his belly, and he really just

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Speaker 1: inspires and motivate. It's not just the staff and the

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Speaker 1: people around him on a day to day basis. And

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Speaker 1: if you see him out on the stump at ah

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Speaker 1: one of our pint nights or something like that, you

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Speaker 1: can feel the emotion and fire and spirit. And I

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Speaker 1: think he is sort of feeding on what all of

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Speaker 1: our members and supporters feel about b h A. And

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Speaker 1: he is the uh, the personification of the movement that

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Speaker 1: b h A has become. And I think all of

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Speaker 1: our people have that same fire and passion. And I

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Speaker 1: think it's because b h A is not afraid to

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Speaker 1: say the right thing, even when it's the unpopular thing

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Speaker 1: to say. We tackle tough conservation issues and we wait

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Speaker 1: into them with a pragmatic approach that uses science and

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Speaker 1: reason rather than emotion and conjecture, and and we uh,

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Speaker 1: we don't second guess any decision that is for the

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Speaker 1: benefit of fishing wildlife and hunting and fishing opportunities in

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Speaker 1: the future of our traditions and an outdoor heritage. And

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Speaker 1: I think walking the line with that type of integrity

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Speaker 1: helps us make sure that we're always on the right

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Speaker 1: side and we're always making the right decisions. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know we in the conservation community. I mean there's

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Speaker 1: as you said, there's groups that are focused on just

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Speaker 1: hel or just turkeys, or any number of issues. Because

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Speaker 1: you're well aware that there's a myriad of issues in

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Speaker 1: this conservation lexicon that we could talk about. Right, we

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Speaker 1: can focus on we can focus on legislation or you know,

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Speaker 1: really uber specific politics, or we can talk about habitat,

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Speaker 1: or we can talk about but the but the one

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Speaker 1: shining star and all that is public lands because it's

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Speaker 1: it's an enduring ideal more than it is just that

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Speaker 1: a tangible thing you can go walk on and hunt

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Speaker 1: on and fish on. I think that's to me, that's

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Speaker 1: why b h A has become what it's become. And

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Speaker 1: for people that don't you know, inside the the lex

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Speaker 1: kind of of conservation, I think b h A has

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Speaker 1: become this youthful, energetic, purposeful energy organization that's that's done

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Speaker 1: and its membership one, but also just in its you know,

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Speaker 1: public relations and it's forward facing voice, it's become something

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Speaker 1: different and that's why it's interesting not to say that

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Speaker 1: Ducks Unlimited or n W T F or R M

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Speaker 1: E F are old and the way they do things,

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Speaker 1: but they're older and they have established ways of being

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Speaker 1: and ways of talking and ways of doing that. B

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Speaker 1: h A was able to break the mold on what

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Speaker 1: do you attribute that breaking the mold to land in

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Speaker 1: some way or just the idea of what public lands

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Speaker 1: are well, I think, uh, one, we we've learned a

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Speaker 1: lot from our partners. You named several of them, and

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Speaker 1: we worked really closely with them, and they're uh, they're

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Speaker 1: sort of legacy leaders in the conservation space, and so

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Speaker 1: many of us that helped grow and and start b

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Speaker 1: h A. We're actually working for many of those partner

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Speaker 1: organizations at the time, and and we loved who we

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Speaker 1: were working for and why we were there, but we

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Speaker 1: also saw the opportunity to grow something new, something different,

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Speaker 1: something that was um an experiment in some ways, like

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Speaker 1: could we try something new and something different? And I

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Speaker 1: feel like the sportsman's community needed something different too, right

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Speaker 1: Like we're working closely with state agencies all over the country,

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Speaker 1: and probably the single most greatest priority for state agencies

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Speaker 1: is recruitment of new hunters and anglers, people that are

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Speaker 1: buying hunting and fishing licenses by in gear and equipment

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Speaker 1: that UH support excise tax dollars, that are supporting state

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Speaker 1: agency management budgets for fishing and wildlife management. These are

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Speaker 1: really important revenue streams that UH a lot of us

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Speaker 1: are concerned about. And so we have that important recruitment

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Speaker 1: UH component. We also need to be retaining existing hunters

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Speaker 1: and anglers and re engaging ones that may have hunted

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Speaker 1: and fished in the past but for whatever reason stopped

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Speaker 1: and and so I think part of what we're trying

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Speaker 1: to do is create enthusiasm around hunting and fishing again,

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Speaker 1: like like, let's make it fun, Let's make it exciting,

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Speaker 1: let's make it accessible. And so we're taking a little

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Speaker 1: bit different approach one UH. Certainly Land Spirit and and

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Speaker 1: the organization's ability to to reach out to young people

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Speaker 1: is is I think mostly attributed to our approach in

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Speaker 1: meeting people where they're at. If you want to reach

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Speaker 1: young people and you want to bring in um diversity

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Speaker 1: of of audiences and can stuents into your organization, you've

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Speaker 1: got to find out what they respond to, what do

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Speaker 1: they care about, where did they like to get their

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Speaker 1: information and what do they like to do in their

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Speaker 1: free time? If you can make people fired up to

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Speaker 1: come to your organization because they would have done something

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Speaker 1: similar in their free time anyways, and you can make

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Speaker 1: that about hunting and fishing and fishing wildlife conservation, and

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Speaker 1: that makes sense. You know, we're doing things like hosting

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Speaker 1: pint nights where we're coming together and uh and having

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Speaker 1: some beers. We're having good times. We're talking about important issues.

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Speaker 1: But I think that uh some groups have uh moved

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Speaker 1: beyond that important social connection with some of their members

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Speaker 1: and supporters. And for us, we're putting that forward as

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Speaker 1: the means to uh engage and educate and bring people

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Speaker 1: into the tent and be a part of who we

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Speaker 1: are and get them excited about what we stand for.

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Speaker 1: And then by talking about issues that they care about,

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Speaker 1: then we're resonating their interest areas and we're you know,

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Speaker 1: I have a kind of values based proposition that says, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's go out and have a great time together. Let's

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Speaker 1: go hunting and fishing together, and let's talk about ways

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Speaker 1: to make sure that hunting and fishing stays great for

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Speaker 1: the generations that follow us and and tying that all

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Speaker 1: together in a way that uh makes sense to you

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Speaker 1: know that quick you know, vastly growing demographic is is

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Speaker 1: I think the most important and the other piece I'll

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Speaker 1: add to this, other than the social aspect of just

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Speaker 1: you know, going out having beers and having fun. I

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Speaker 1: think people are excited that b H as an organization

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Speaker 1: that's able to move quickly and be nimble and decisive.

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Speaker 1: And uh we also do a great job of empowering

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Speaker 1: our volunteer leaders are chapter leaders v h as. Chapters

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Speaker 1: are the the core and the lifeblood of who we are.

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Speaker 1: We have a boots on the ground mantra. We work

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Speaker 1: where we have people, and we let people lead. We

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Speaker 1: give them jobs to do. I think people are frustrated

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Speaker 1: by some organizations that uh, um, you know, don't have

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Speaker 1: a job for them to do. Like they want to

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Speaker 1: go be a part of something and be active with something.

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Speaker 1: And certainly we have some people that that like sitting

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Speaker 1: on a board and they like having the board title

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Speaker 1: and and that's great. You know, we need people of

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Speaker 1: all stripes. We need people to give us UH philanthropic

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Speaker 1: capacity in addition to UH sweat capacity and working with

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Speaker 1: us on the ground and helping us engage in meaningful

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Speaker 1: conservation issues. But I think the fact that we UH

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Speaker 1: do give people jobs and we have this really you know,

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Speaker 1: fantastic model that's starting to grow with many of our

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Speaker 1: chapters of you know, setting up habitat watchmen. Where do

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Speaker 1: you let someone be the guardian of the habitat that

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Speaker 1: they care the most about, you know, whether that's where

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Speaker 1: they live or where they hunt and fish. You know,

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Speaker 1: they get on the schedules of proposed action for the

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Speaker 1: National Forest Service, they go to the BLM meetings, they

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Speaker 1: go to their regional state Fish and Wildlife Management Agency meetings,

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Speaker 1: and there are sort of the eyes and ears for

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Speaker 1: their part of the state. And then they work together

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Speaker 1: with other habitat watchman at the state level and they

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Speaker 1: have val wait what they think are the most important

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Speaker 1: priorities for them to focus on that at the state level.

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Speaker 1: And that makes b h A unique in that we're

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Speaker 1: able to show up to Washington, d C. And engage

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Speaker 1: actively in federal and congressional issues while bringing that boots

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Speaker 1: on the ground perspective. We're we're really emerging those two

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Speaker 1: together and operating as as one. B h A from

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Speaker 1: the ground all the way up, and I think that

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Speaker 1: people appreciate that type of model two and that's another

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Speaker 1: reason why we're attracting so much interest. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's a lot of That's why I wanted to

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Speaker 1: have yawn. And even when I originally thought about this,

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Speaker 1: I thought, one, I want people to know what b

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Speaker 1: h A really is or you know, how b j

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Speaker 1: A speaks, how it looks in general, and away from

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Speaker 1: just social media channels and emails and websites and policies

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Speaker 1: and things of that nature. I mean, I think the

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Speaker 1: personalities of these organizations are as important as the actions

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Speaker 1: of the organization. So that's one reason I want to

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Speaker 1: have you on. But the other one is I think

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Speaker 1: when certain public land and access issues and conservation issues

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Speaker 1: them up, b h is seen as a leader, a voice,

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Speaker 1: someone who can set the precedent for which direction we

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Speaker 1: should go right. So, for example, National Monuments has been

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Speaker 1: a big one. People are looking to b h A,

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Speaker 1: looking at yourself and looking to land and looking to

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Speaker 1: Ryan Busty, the chairman of the board, to help mold

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Speaker 1: the conversation. You know, guys like Steve Ronella and Remy Warren.

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Speaker 1: These guys are helping fuel the conversation. But I think

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Speaker 1: I even personally look to b h A to to

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Speaker 1: help me understand what it should be important to me

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Speaker 1: and within the prism of of public lands, what I

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Speaker 1: know I already care about. You know, I have the tenants.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for BHA to kind of guide those tenants

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Speaker 1: and educate me on on that. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: what you can provide to anybody listeners to this. So

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Speaker 1: I want to go through a pretty not exhaustive but

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Speaker 1: just kind of roll through. If you care about public lands,

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Speaker 1: here's what you kind of need to know about the future,

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Speaker 1: what's happening currently, and then what will happen in in

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Speaker 1: the future. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um and if you know,

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Speaker 1: if you want me to, I'm happy to touch on

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Speaker 1: some some pieces of legislation that I think that hunters

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Speaker 1: and English should be paying attention to and and aware

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Speaker 1: of and uh in ways to engage it. And first

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Speaker 1: I'll say that, you know, while I hope that people

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Speaker 1: continue to join b h A and and even you know,

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Speaker 1: listeners of this podcast, you know, look us up and

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Speaker 1: check us out, I think the most important thing that

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Speaker 1: any hunter and angler can do is find a group

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Speaker 1: that speaks their language, whether it's my organization or one

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Speaker 1: of our partner groups. I think it's important to find

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Speaker 1: an organization that speaks your language and and become a

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Speaker 1: member of that organization give them your money. There's tons

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Speaker 1: of organizations doing great work in this space, and and

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Speaker 1: if you care about trout fishing only, then you should

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Speaker 1: definitely go join Trout Unlimited. But I hope you'll become

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Speaker 1: a member of back Country Hunters and Anglers too, um

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Speaker 1: and realize the value of being a part of an

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Speaker 1: organization that also cares about trout and salmon species and

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Speaker 1: cold water fisheries, but also so big game species and uh,

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Speaker 1: fair chase and public access and opportunity and things like that.

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Speaker 1: I think the reason why it's important for organizations like

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Speaker 1: ours to be collaborative and work with other groups is

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Speaker 1: because there are specialties out there, and sometimes you need

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Speaker 1: specialized organizations that bring expertise into an area. And b

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Speaker 1: h A prides itself on our expertise with regards to

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Speaker 1: to public lands and waters and public access and opportunity

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Speaker 1: and fair chase hunting principles. But you know, we definitely

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Speaker 1: lean on some of our partner groups to help fill

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Speaker 1: the gaps and provide you know, policy expertise where we

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Speaker 1: need it. And and I think that's the beauty of

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Speaker 1: a group like b h A. Like we can convene

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Speaker 1: people and bring people together, but we also reach out

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Speaker 1: to other organizations. So i'd first tell people to to

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Speaker 1: find an organization that they like and and give them money,

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Speaker 1: become a member, and become active in what they're doing. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know. The second thing that I think is is

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Speaker 1: really important is to whether you've never gauge in a

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Speaker 1: civic way or not, whether that's at the local level

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Speaker 1: with your state legislature or decisions happening in your in

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Speaker 1: your county or your municipality. Even members of Congress still

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Speaker 1: have to go home and face the people that vote

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Speaker 1: them into office in the first place. They're still supposed

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Speaker 1: to be representing who their home state folks have uh

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Speaker 1: an interesting like what issues they have an interest in,

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Speaker 1: It's their job to represent those interests. So I think

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Speaker 1: people should remember that their job is to represent the

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Speaker 1: interests of their state, and they can't know what the

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Speaker 1: interests in their state are unless you tell them about it.

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Speaker 1: And so part of what would b h A is

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Speaker 1: doing is providing information to our members and supporters, trying

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Speaker 1: to educate them on issues that we think are most important,

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Speaker 1: so that they'll start making those phone calls, so they'll

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Speaker 1: start taking actions, so they'll use their social media platforms

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Speaker 1: to to post on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and

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Speaker 1: whatever spaces they're into. I really advance, you know, conservation

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Speaker 1: priorities that we think are important, and you know, just

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Speaker 1: we're we're halfway through the year almost um here, coming

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Speaker 1: into springtime, and two thousand and eighteen is an interesting

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Speaker 1: year where we have a mid term election coming up

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Speaker 1: in November, so members of Congress or battling to keep

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Speaker 1: their seats. So we've got new people trying to come

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Speaker 1: in and establish themselves in Congress. You've got a number

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Speaker 1: of Senate seats they're open, and so I think there

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Speaker 1: is a will on both sides of the aisle to

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Speaker 1: start moving legislation that's meaningful. We just uh passed a

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Speaker 1: federal omnibus package for two thousand eighteen funding fiscal year

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eighteen funding and included great things for conservation.

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Speaker 1: We had re authorization for the Federal Lands Transaction Facilitation Act,

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Speaker 1: which is a modified land exchange program that that helps

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Speaker 1: create new access and opportunity on on public land and

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Speaker 1: UH management efficiencies for fish and wildlife management. And and

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Speaker 1: we were able to UH work with congressional leaders to

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Speaker 1: fix wildfire borrowing issues so that agency UH budgets going

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Speaker 1: forward can put their money where it matters the most

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Speaker 1: in in terms of active management on the ground and

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Speaker 1: putting resources where they need it instead of having really

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Speaker 1: expensive wildfire disasters come and raid those budgets so that

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Speaker 1: they don't have them available to do those important things

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Speaker 1: that help enhance away. Our public lands are managed, but

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Speaker 1: there are things that are looming out in front of

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Speaker 1: us still that haven't been done yet that I think

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Speaker 1: are really important for us to focus on. We have

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Speaker 1: the Land and Water Conservation Fund. If you don't know

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Speaker 1: what that is, it's a program that takes offshore oil

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Speaker 1: and gas development royalties. UH uses those revenues, which don't

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Speaker 1: rely on taxpayer dollars at all, sets them aside into

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Speaker 1: a fund that Congress is authorized to appropriate to UH

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Speaker 1: special projects. These projects have touched every single state and

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Speaker 1: every single county in the country. They've done fantastic things

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Speaker 1: like acquisition for fishing access sites in Montana. If you're

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Speaker 1: using a public access site in Montana to go fishing

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Speaker 1: or put your boat in. It was probably paid for

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Speaker 1: by the Land of Water Conservation Fund. It has paid

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Speaker 1: for the acquisition of wetland habitats, creating public access for

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Speaker 1: waterfowl hunters. It's done really great things with big game

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Speaker 1: migratory migratory corridors. You mentioned the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation earlier.

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Speaker 1: They really pioneered, UH the model for using LWCF dollars

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Speaker 1: to expand elk habitat and and look at checkerboard ownership

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Speaker 1: situations where you have opportunities to consolidate habitat into more

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Speaker 1: connected migratory corridors. And so you know, Army f doing

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Speaker 1: great work in that space. And states and local municipalities

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Speaker 1: are using LWCF dollars for things like baseball fields and

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Speaker 1: UH public recreation facilities, UH in rural places where funding

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Speaker 1: is limited and the tax base isn't there to support

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Speaker 1: that type of outdoor recreation. So llp CF is just

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Speaker 1: a really cool program that is supported by both Republicans

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Speaker 1: and Democrats. Yet the gridlock in Congress has prevented it

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Speaker 1: from becoming permanently reauthorized. We were throwing a three year lifeline.

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Speaker 1: Three years ago, we UH were up to expire again

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Speaker 1: in UH the end of September. And so one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest priorities for b h A and and many

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Speaker 1: other organizations out there is to permanently reauthorize the Land

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Speaker 1: and Water Conservation Fund and to create a dedicated funding

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Speaker 1: stream for it so that we don't have to worry

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Speaker 1: about Congress appropriating funding to it. The funds will be

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Speaker 1: there in a dedicated fund and available to UH put

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Speaker 1: on the ground for really important projects. And and I

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Speaker 1: think that people should be aware of fantastic conservation funding

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Speaker 1: programs like that and get behind l WCF. And I

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Speaker 1: think there's been great conversations happening with Democrats and Republicans.

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Speaker 1: All I'll mention Senator Murkowski for Alaska and Senator Cantwell

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Speaker 1: from Washington, who serve as a majority and minority leaders

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Speaker 1: on the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. They developed

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Speaker 1: a great LWCF compromise in the context of an energy

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Speaker 1: bill in the last Congress that that moved through their

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Speaker 1: committee and through the Senate unopposed. It was something widely supported,

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Speaker 1: just couldn't get it over the finish line. But it's

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Speaker 1: a model for how we can do a couple of

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Speaker 1: important things. There's a massive maintenance backlog on Park Service lands,

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Speaker 1: on BLM lands, on National forest lands, and on you know,

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Speaker 1: refuge lands, all places that are important. We think that

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Speaker 1: deferred maintenance is incredibly important to address, but we need

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Speaker 1: to do so simultaneously with the re authorization of the

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Speaker 1: Land and Water Conservation Fund. If we can permanently excuse me,

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Speaker 1: permanently reauthorized LWCF and also addressed deferred maintenance issues and

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Speaker 1: make sure that Congress is creating funding stream for that too,

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Speaker 1: and work on them together, we're really solving a problem

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Speaker 1: in a holistic, complementary way that uh it's thoughtful and

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Speaker 1: addresses two k needs at the same time and avoids,

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Speaker 1: you know, a situation that we're we're facing a little

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Speaker 1: bit right now where you have some sides suggesting we

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Speaker 1: should do deferred maintenance first and then focus on you know,

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Speaker 1: land and water conservation. But I don't think it has

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Speaker 1: to be in either or a conversation. It's not mutually exclusive.

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Speaker 1: Let's do both at the same time. And uh and

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Speaker 1: Murkowski and can't Well have have come together and created

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Speaker 1: a really great bipartisan model for moving that idea forward,

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Speaker 1: and so we're hoping to advance that this year uh

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00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,239
Speaker 1: in advance of the expiration looming and at the end

434
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: of September there that's one of the big priorities for

435
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 1: us well. And those midterm elections are going to be, Oh,

436
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to be they are always are huge for

437
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 1: these types of these types of things. I want to

438
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 1: go back all the way because I think if I'm

439
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: a new member to b h A or a new

440
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: hunter trying to think of what information I want to

441
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: know write off the bat, I think the first thing

442
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: is defining what our public lands are because it's a

443
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 1: pretty as you well know, there's a lot types of

444
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: public lands. There a lot of uses. There's a lot

445
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: of complications as to what's what, who owns, who owns who,

446
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 1: and who benefits from this and benefits from that. How

447
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,239
Speaker 1: we stand to lose this piece as opposed to this

448
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: other piece. So if I was a brand new b

449
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: h A member, I knew I wanted to hunt and

450
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: fishing on public lands or recreate on public lands, and

451
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: I needed to be able to explain to someone else

452
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: who wanted to join behind me what public lands are

453
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 1: in both in the collective sense, in the singular sense,

454
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: how would you approach that. Yeah, that's a great question,

455
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: and I think everyone loves the romantic notion of do

456
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: it yourself, hunt or or fishing trip on public lands

457
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: where you know it is your it is your land.

458
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: Every everyone in America as a public landowner. And I

459
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: think that's the first thing I would I would want

460
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: to remind people about this legacy that visionary conservation leaders

461
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: like Theodore Roosevelt helped us establish at the turn of

462
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: the twentieth century. Really propelled forward a unique legacy that

463
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: doesn't exist anywhere else in the world. Every single citizen

464
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: of the United States owns these lands equally, and whether

465
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: you live in proximity to them or not, uh doesn't

466
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: diminish your equal ownership. And it's a way that levels

467
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: the playing field a little bit. You don't have to

468
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: be wealthy to enjoy public lands. You don't have to

469
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: belong to an exclusive club to be able to hunt

470
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: or fish. It's it's every man's part of that, I

471
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: would say, part of that in our European roots, as

472
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 1: we settled this country, we were trying to escape that aristocracy,

473
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: the and the and in the European tradition. Really even

474
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: still in the European tradition, it's the aristocracy that goes hunting.

475
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: It's the upper crust that owns the land and the animals,

476
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: and it's and they don't. There is no trust it is.

477
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: It is there. So I think that's as you say,

478
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: it's huge part of what this country is founded on.

479
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: And then beyond that, there's how many millions of acres

480
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: across this country? That's a great question, um, and I

481
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: should know the answer off the top of my head.

482
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: But there's just over sixty million acres of public lands

483
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 1: across the Country's answer, it's it's massive, and I don't

484
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: have the exact number, but I should hunt that down.

485
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: I should be able to rattle it up right like

486
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: my job. I should here. I should know the exact number,

487
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: and just saying it's about a website exactly, it should

488
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: always be going up. Not that right right, Um? But

489
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: I think you raise a good point, Um. Our public

490
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: lands is unique model. But hunting and fishing on public

491
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: lands also depends on managing fish and wildlife populations in

492
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: the public trust. And the difference between our North American

493
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: model of fish and wildlife management versus UH the aristocratic

494
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: approach of Europe and other countries where it's the king's dominion.

495
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: Public land and fish and wildlife populations in the United

496
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: States truly our public and I think for any new

497
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: member to b h A someone that wants to learn more.

498
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: In addition to finding out what public lands mean and

499
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: what they mean to you and your state, no matter

500
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: where you live at, you should also learn more about

501
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: the public trust doctrine and the North American model of

502
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: fish and wildlife conservation. Those two things are critically important

503
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: to the the The idea that every fish and wildlife

504
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: species belongs equally to the people of this country is

505
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: also a unique model that UH. I wouldn't use the

506
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: word innovative, but I think it's the right way to

507
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: approach it. Fishing wild the word successful. Absolutely. Fish and

508
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: wildlife shouldn't belong to any one single person. They should

509
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: be free roaming, they should be free arranging, and they

510
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: should be managed for the benefit of the people of

511
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: North America. Whether you live in Canada or the United States.

512
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: Mexico is a little bit more of a complicated story,

513
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: but in general, like the North American model is a modocle,

514
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: is a model that is highly successful, and the ability

515
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: to hunt and fish on public lands is is an

516
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: access issue in many ways to not just the physical

517
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: area to hunting fishing, but the opportunity to be able

518
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: to hunt fish there. You need to have robust populations

519
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: of fish and wildlife in order to have successful hunting

520
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: and fishing opportunities. So so I think the two go

521
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: hand in hand and UM and so I like to,

522
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: you know, educate people about that piece to reminding them

523
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: that it's important to interface with your state Fish and

524
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: Wildlife management agency UH leaders as much as it is

525
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: leaders of federal public lands management agencies like the Bureau

526
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: of Land Management, like the Forest Service. And I think

527
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: UH understanding the different types of public lands is a

528
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: is a whole other. That was my next That was so,

529
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: I I feel like you're we're going down the same

530
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: track because I want, really want some of you to

531
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: listen to this and kind of follow along. Sixty million

532
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: acres of public land that's held in that's held in

533
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: public trust, it's owned by the federal government or the

534
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: state government at some level. I think the types of

535
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: public land one form ownership. So just go through to

536
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: your knowledge all the types of public land real briefly

537
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: and kind of what they are and the tapestry of

538
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: all the Yeah. So at the at the federal level,

539
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: you have UH public lands management agencies essentially divided into

540
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: two areas. You have UH the U S. Department of Agriculture,

541
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: which houses the United States Forest Service, so that's one side,

542
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: and then you have the Department of Interior, which houses

543
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: the majority of our public lands management agencies. You have

544
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: the Bureau of Land Management, you have US Fish and

545
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: Wildlife Service, and you have the National Park Service. All

546
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: those different UH land ownership designations come with a little

547
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: bit different types of management UH paradigms. And if you

548
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: look at something like the Park Service units, you can't

549
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: hunt and fishing a lot of National Park Service units, right.

550
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: You can't go into Yellowstone National Park and go on

551
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: an elk hunt. Would be great because it would be

552
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: pretty easy. Just go to the visitors center, right, put

553
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: some corn in your hand. But you can go to

554
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: Colorado and hunt in the Great Sand Dunes National Preserve

555
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: for elk, which is managed by the Park Service. And

556
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: so I think it's about understanding what land designations are

557
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: to the American people too, and and where is a

558
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: good place to go hunting and fishing in general, National

559
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: Force Service lands administered under the depart A bit of

560
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: Agriculture and Bureau of Land Management lands Adminster under the

561
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: Parma Interior or wide open for hunting and fishing and um.

562
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: You know, outside of restrictions placed on method of take

563
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 1: and seasons for hunting and fishing that are set by

564
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: the states, you you essentially have unfittered access to those places.

565
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: You know. Certainly there's travel management issues where you know

566
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: roads are open to some motorized vehicles and and not,

567
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: and you have places like roadless areas and wilderness designations

568
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: where motorized vehicles aren't allowed. So I think if you're

569
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: a new member of b h A and you want

570
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: to understand more about where you can go hunting and

571
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: fishing on public lands, I think the first step is

572
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: to reach out to myself or or aning of our

573
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: staff and and just ask the questions that you're maybe

574
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: afraid to ask if you're friends, because we don't care

575
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: what you know or you don't know. We want to

576
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: help you learn more. And and certainly the the online

577
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: resources that are set up under the Department Interior and

578
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: in U s D a forest service really help line

579
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: those things out too. So I think, uh, if if

580
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: your listeners are interested in knowing more, those are great

581
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: places to start to where they can do some self education.

582
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: And then you know, you have other interesting segments of

583
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: public lands outside of the federal purview that exists at

584
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: the state level too. We did a report UM a

585
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: couple of years ago examining the state trust lands model

586
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: that exists in Western states, where upon statehood UM a

587
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: model of state trust lands was created in order to

588
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: generate revenue for schools. And so some Western states have

589
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: have largely um you know, sold off or or transferred

590
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: or somehow you know, give it away their state trust

591
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: lands that they had as statehood and had as an

592
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: example of of how most of their lands are are

593
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: not there anymore. But other states have tremendous amounts of

594
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: state trust lands and and their primary mandate is to

595
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: generate revenue for schools for the state. And so hunting

596
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: and fishing and even things like camping and in public

597
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 1: access can be tricky and they differ widely from state

598
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 1: to state, and so you have to really educate yourself

599
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: about how do you even you know access and and

600
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: understand what state lands you can even hunt and fish on.

601
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: So it becomes a little bit more difficult when you

602
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: look at those types of lands to decipher what you

603
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: can do and what you can do. And our report

604
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: tried to like outline that in a way that makes

605
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 1: sense to people. But I think it's also an interesting

606
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: illustration of how, um, you know, this this concept that

607
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: you know originated out of the stage Brush rebellion where

608
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 1: where some Western states wanted to capture all federal lands

609
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: and bring them into you know, state ownership. I think,

610
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: you know, that's a single example of how it complicates

611
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 1: things for hunters and anglers and and why we should

612
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: be concerned about efforts to take away public lands and

613
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: shift them into private ownership or even state ownership where

614
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: the primary purpose of the land is not necessarily for

615
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: the benefit of the public good and and access and

616
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: opportunity on public lands, it becomes a revenue generation um priority.

617
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: And you know, if the state you know, finds himself

618
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: in a tight spot in the rough budget ear, it's

619
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: pretty easy to sell off a huge block of lands

620
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,479
Speaker 1: to generate a short term revenue game. And once once

621
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: they're gone, they're gone. Right, we have what we have

622
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 1: and fish and wildlife already lived in the best possible places.

623
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: They are already occupying the best possible habitat. If we

624
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 1: marginalize the habitat, if we uh eliminate the status of

625
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: the habitat in some way, then we're only serving to

626
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: possibly see population declines as as as populations of fishing

627
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: wilife are pushed into more marginal habitat areas. And if

628
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: we if we destroy or lose their habitat forever, then uh,

629
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,439
Speaker 1: it's hard to make the case for improving enhancing hunting

630
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: and fishing opportunities. Well, in most state, is it the

631
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: governor and the state legislator that have a mandate to

632
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: balance the budget. Is that part of part of their

633
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: marching orders in their job description for sure? Um, And

634
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: with state trust lands, they're supposed to generate revenue for schools, right,

635
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 1: that's there, that's their primary purpose, and and that could

636
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: contribute to balancing state budgets and and having them, you know,

637
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: serve their fiduciary obligations at the state level too, So

638
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: that's definitely part of it. Yeah, And so yeah, we

639
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: kind of have a definition of what is the idea

640
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: of public lands, What are they in the tangible form.

641
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: And then where we all get to next, where you

642
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: you're bridging the gap already. How are these things threatened?

643
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: Like what are the main ways that's someone that's a

644
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: beach a member or non bachman members should be worried about.

645
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: And we can also talk about I think the history

646
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: of from the beginning of the public land the idea

647
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: of what a public piece of public land could be.

648
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: There was robber barons and railroad tide us fighting against

649
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: the idea of this public trust and this thing that

650
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: was a shared resource. They want the resource for their

651
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 1: own benefit. Um, so just in the in the current context,

652
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: let's start with the current context. What is the threat

653
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: to us losing these public lands and they're right to

654
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: use them? Well, I think, Um, there's a couple of things. Uh,

655
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: I'm glad you you mentioned sort of the historical background

656
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: of public lands. It's it's a reminder that public lands

657
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: didn't happen by accident and they won't continue to to

658
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: to be there without diligent attention to maintaining what we have.

659
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: We have I think a collective obligation to the future

660
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: of our public lands and the legacy we leave for

661
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: future generations of hunters and anglers to stand up and

662
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: and defend against the threats to our national public lands heritage,

663
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 1: and today is not that much different than it was

664
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties, when you had a lot of

665
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: people eyebawling public lands and and you had visionaries like

666
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt working to create public lands that were productive

667
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: for the benefit of the country, while at the same

668
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: time ensuring that they were being rated and decimated and

669
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: gone forever too. You know, we we may be facing

670
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: slightly different threats than we were before, but they're not

671
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: that much different. There's people that want to privatize public

672
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: lands for mineral and resource extraction, and you have people

673
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: that you know, have definitely shortsighted vision on what public

674
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: lands could do for them. I think b h A

675
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: and other organizations over the last five years have have

676
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 1: done a great job of pushing back against eight proposals

677
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 1: to transfer public lands, which uh by all opinions put

678
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,919
Speaker 1: forth by legal scholars and everyone else that have looked

679
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: into the issue, is illegally to do in the first place,

680
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: and they have no claim to public lands in the

681
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: first place. Um the idea that there's people that want

682
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: to pull pull them out of federal ownership. I think

683
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: that idea is um becoming less popular than it was.

684
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: I think they're realizing that it was a bit of

685
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: a fool's errant to even try. And and members of

686
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,280
Speaker 1: Congress are you know, at the point I think we're

687
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: they're annoyed by anyone that's trying to bring forth things

688
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: like that. I think the more credible threat that we

689
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: face is UH impacts efficient wildlife, habitat quality and and

690
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: and even um more veiled attempts to take away public

691
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: lands by shifting management authority to states and other entities.

692
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: I think that's a dangerous proposition that UH it really

693
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: sets up an equation where each state is not being

694
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: managed consistently from state to state. And you have a

695
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: state that as a government in place that wants to

696
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: prioritize resource extraction, mineral extraction, whether that's you know, oil

697
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: and gas development or coal mining or whatever it is.

698
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: If that state wants to do that and they have

699
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: the authority to do it, UM, how is that helping

700
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: fishing while they habitati hung and fishing opportunities. If one

701
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: state is acting in good faith and and doing the

702
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: right thing for fishing while they had to have at

703
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: the state right next door that's also connected to the

704
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: same migratory corridor is making bad decisions. And so I

705
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: think the federal government, while you know, I think there's

706
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: always going to be a sense of uh, you know,

707
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: pushback against the federal government in the Western States in particular,

708
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: I think the federal government plays a really important oversight

709
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: role and they are there as stewards managing to the

710
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 1: best of their ability our public lands in a way

711
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: it allows for multiple use and hopefully one use doesn't

712
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: come at the expense of another. And and I think

713
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: our role as an advocacy organization is working with members

714
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: of Congress and states and decision makers to say we

715
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: want fish and wildlife habitat and hunting fishing opportunities to

716
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: be considered as a priority instead of an afterthought. And

717
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: and we support things like responsible energy development, We support

718
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: things like responsible mining and multiple use, and and sustainable

719
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: timber harvest and uh, you know, active management practices. We

720
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 1: support all those things. We just want to make sure

721
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: that none of those activities and multiple uses on public

722
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: lands come at the expense of our hunting and fishing heritage.

723
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: And and if we do a good job of coming

724
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: together in a collaborative way and looking at landscape level

725
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: planning approaches that enable us to avoid and mitigate impacts.

726
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: You know, we can't have our cake and eat it too.

727
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: And it's just about getting together and and doing a

728
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: better job. And so I think that's uh, you know,

729
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: fundamental to ensuring that we avoid threats in the first place,

730
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: instead of deal with them after they're already upon us.

731
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, there there are a number

732
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: of other threats that sometimes people don't consider to and

733
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: you know, we talk about the fragmentation of fish and

734
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: wildlife habitat. It's not always a development related activity that's

735
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: fragmenting habits at. We have huge problems with invasive species

736
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: all around the country, uh, and invasive species across all taxes.

737
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 1: So we're not just talking about you know, cheat grass

738
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: or tamarrisk. We're we're talking about you know, uh invasive

739
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: you know, Asian carp species in our waterways, and and

740
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: our and our friends up in the Great Lakes that

741
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: are dealing with uh ballast water issues and uh, we

742
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: have we have a number of these problems that I

743
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: think really demand our attention, right now and and part

744
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: of what b h A wants to do is be

745
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: an organization at educates people about the breadth and depth

746
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: of all these different threats across all different spaces and

747
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: create engagement points for each one. So if you're someone

748
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: who does care a lot about fisheries and you live

749
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: in the Great Lakes region, you might gravitate towards UH.

750
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: You know, working with some of the great partners up

751
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: there that are focused on Asian carp and what b

752
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: h A may not be doing a whole bunch of

753
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: work on Asian carp ourselves. We probably know who is

754
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: and we can pull you in the right direction, but

755
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: we also care about those things, you know, or or

756
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: it might be something that we are playing a stronger

757
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: leadership role on, like the Boundary Waters. You know, there's

758
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: a proposed mine and the Boundary Waters Canoe Area wilderness

759
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: one of I think it is America's most visited wilderness area.

760
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: It's a phenomenal place and they have tremendous water resources there.

761
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: You know, people literally dip their cups in the waters

762
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: and the Boundary Waters and drinks straight from them. And UH,

763
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: and I think the fisheries and the wildlife that thrive,

764
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: there are an indication of that habitat health. And when

765
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 1: you have proposed mining development really teetering on the edge

766
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: of you know, polluting something like that, I think it

767
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: shows us that there's some places that are just the

768
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: wrong places to do to development. And and while we

769
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: support responsible development, we think there's a right place in

770
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: a wrong place. And and maybe the boundary waters is

771
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 1: is a wrong place to put a massive mining development. Maybe, Uh,

772
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: if you love to fish in Alaska, or you have

773
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 1: dreams of uh, you know, catching a massive Sakay salmon

774
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: Alaska and and getting up into Bristol Bay, maybe you

775
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: have a problem with the proposed pebble mind that is

776
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: going in in Bristol Bay, and and you want to

777
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: work with groups like b h A and and Trout

778
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: Unlimited and and some of the other organizations that are

779
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 1: rallying against pebble mine in order to maintain the integrity

780
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: of of Bristol Bay in the world's largest Sacay salmon fishery.

781
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's a lot of issues like that

782
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: going on right now that are pretty serious for us.

783
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 1: And I think that, uh, what anyone the cares about

784
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing and fishing, wildlife conservation can do. Like

785
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: I said before, find an organization that you feel is

786
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: paying attention to these things, become a member of it,

787
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: become aware of what they're doing, and then learn how

788
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: to engage in how to make a difference. And people

789
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: think that making phone calls and sending emails and letters

790
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: to their members of Congress and decision makers, UH doesn't

791
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: make a difference, but it does. We've we've shown that

792
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: it does before. There's you know, just last year, we

793
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: saw Congressman chaf It's from Utah drop a bill that

794
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: would have disposed of over two million acres of public lands,

795
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 1: and UH and hunters and anglers and and people that

796
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: care about public lands responded on mass and he withdrew

797
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: that legislation and something we've never seen before. And so

798
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: we were uh hardened to see that UH civic engagement

799
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: still matters. And that was a great example of how

800
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: an uprising, you know, really turned the corner for hunters

801
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: and anglers and people that care about public lands. Yeah.

802
00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that gets into the politics of

803
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: it because Jason Schaefitz was a Republican and sometimes I

804
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: think about when it comes to the federal government. Say

805
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: I joined b h A. I'm a new member. I'm

806
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: a Republican. I'm for smaller government, smaller federal government. That's

807
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: that's my stance. But I'm also conversely, I'm also I

808
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 1: really care about public lands. I really care about hunting

809
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: and fishing, and I really care about multiple use, and

810
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: I care about the environment. But I'm a staunch Republican,

811
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: and I think the government mostly is inept and I

812
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: can't do the job it's meant to do. I think

813
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: about that guy all the time. That guy must be thinking,

814
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 1: what the fuck? What would you say to that guy?

815
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: I imagine you might say, Okay, maybe the federal government's

816
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: inept in certain ways. It's convoluted. Politics are um cumbersome

817
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, but in this particular way,

818
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 1: the federal government is the best way to manage it.

819
00:46:57,719 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: And I think the other way I like. The other

820
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: thing I like to hear from you on this particular

821
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: point is how exactly the federal management of these lands work?

822
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: How did they get trickled back down to the states,

823
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: And what is your you know, the synthesis of all

824
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: those ideas, your hypothesis of how the federal government may

825
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: not always be the best thing for a lot of situations,

826
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: but in this situation, it's the best to manage that land.

827
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: It's a great point. And the the profile you describe, like,

828
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: we have those members in our ranks, you know, b

829
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: h A, you know has probably half Democrats and and

830
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 1: half Republicans. But you know, the last survey we did

831
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: indicated that we have more Republicans than we do Democrats.

832
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: And and I spent a lot of time talking to

833
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: our people, and I know that there are people in

834
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: our ranks to feel that way, um, And I think

835
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: what helps them overcome their their loath of government and

836
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: big government is the idea that public lands are big.

837
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: Public lands are connected landscapes that span across state lines,

838
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 1: and it's expensive to manage these places. States cannot afford

839
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: to manage such vast amounts of public lands, and especially

840
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: if a wildfire disaster or something tragic like that happens,

841
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: the cost of dealing with those natural disasters would cripple

842
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,479
Speaker 1: a state in bankrupt it overnight, literally. And I think

843
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: that's an economic equation that a lot of you know,

844
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 1: people writing the ideological horse all the way to Washington

845
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: failed to consider. And integrate into their um well crafted

846
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 1: talking points that are pretty narrow and focus. And so

847
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 1: I think the idea that we have a public obligation

848
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: to manage these public lands for the benefit of future

849
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: generations in a way that uh like I think I

850
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: said before, you know, I think public lands are the

851
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: great equalizer. You have access to them regardless of your

852
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: means and income. And the only possible way that we

853
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: can manage public lands across all fifty states in a

854
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: in a way that is consistent and considers all the

855
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: different multiple uses that that we should be managing our

856
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: public lands for like, the only way to possibly do

857
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: is through the federal government. Could they do a better job,

858
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: of course they can. We are advocating for practices and

859
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: policies that improve and enhance the way public lands are

860
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: being managed in you know, one of the biggest problems

861
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: I see there is congressional appropriators are not doing their

862
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: job to give adequate funding the state management agencies, and

863
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: they have the luxury of talking out of both sides

864
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: of their mouth. They get to complain that public lands

865
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: are not being managed the way they should be, while

866
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: at the same time starving them into a state of

867
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: Anebia as they said on the Appropriations Committee refused to

868
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: give them funding to do it. I don't think that's right,

869
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 1: and I think we should all be doing our individual

870
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: jobs as citizens of this country and public landers to

871
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: call bullshit on that and demand that we fixed that problem.

872
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 1: And and I mentioned earlier, we we fixed a wildfire

873
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 1: borrowing issue in the in the most recent fiscal year

874
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen omnibus package that the past a couple

875
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: of weeks ago. I think that was a big one, right,

876
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: Like fire issues were robbing funding from agencies non fire

877
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: budgets and their operational funds were being compromised, and they

878
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: weren't able to do what they wanted to do. And

879
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: that's not really their fault. It's the fault of the

880
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: members of Congress that should be helping our public lands

881
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: management agencies do a better job, that should be working

882
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,720
Speaker 1: with stakeholders like hunters and anglers to advance thoughtful ways

883
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: to improve active management and and get boots back on

884
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: the ground working to manage public lands. You know the

885
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: other you know the thing I say to that that

886
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 1: member that doesn't like big government and thinks that decisions

887
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: are happening and washing d C ne vacuum. I think

888
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: that's a I think that's a false narrative. Decisions on

889
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: public lands are being made absolutely locally. If you live

890
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: in the West and you drive around your state, there

891
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: are local offices of the Forest Service, of the Bureau

892
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: of Land Management, of the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

893
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 1: These are people with families and local communities, rural towns,

894
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: big cities, working on behalf of the federal government to

895
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: manage local lands publicly. They live there, They live in

896
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: these places that they're managing. They have invested interest in

897
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: doing the best they possibly can. So I think that

898
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: that narrative is a false. Decisions are not being made

899
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: in Washington, d c uh about how public lands are

900
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: being managed out was with no input at the local

901
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 1: or state level. Yeah, that's huge, that's huge and I

902
00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: and I really like, even for my own edification, I

903
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: like to to set up what's happening here because I

904
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: think a lot of people are not cherry picking, but

905
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: are are being allowed to cherry pick certain parts of

906
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: this issue. Wouldn't really I think everything you're saying is

907
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: part of this tapestry, the part of the what the

908
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: lands are, why they're there, how they're managed, how they

909
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: how we could lose them, but then also how politics

910
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: um endangers us doing what's best for these lands. And

911
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 1: so that brings me to the Bears Ears and the

912
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: National monument Um review of this last I guess a

913
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: year in change from the Trump administration on down the

914
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: Secretary Zinky the point that I've made in the past,

915
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 1: and I'd like to just kind of have you go

916
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: through this the whole thing, from soup to nuts, because

917
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 1: it was was obviously a big deal. The fact that

918
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: that Bears Ears specifically became a political football to be

919
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: thrown back and forth. You know, we're going to protect

920
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: these lands. Now we're gonna we're gonna pull that protection

921
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: back a little bit. We're gonna protect pull them back

922
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 1: seemingly is an argument between one side that favors extraction

923
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: and one side that favors the environment. Was that is

924
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: that a correct characterization in the general sense of how

925
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: that works. And so you get back into politics, because

926
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 1: that's we manage the government is our lands, but politics

927
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: manages the government in the way it functions, in the

928
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,760
Speaker 1: way the Caesar fails. You spend a lot of time

929
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: immersed in those politics. So in the you know, in

930
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 1: the sense of the national monument debate. Just frame that

931
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: up from one side believes this, one side believes that,

932
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: and then how you believe it's best managing for the

933
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: future of that land and what a national monument classification

934
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: really means for all in the boots on the ground conservation.

935
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: I feel like you're right. The debate launched in the

936
00:53:53,560 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 1: last year over national monuments was purely driven by political

937
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: differences in ideology and and national monuments and and the

938
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: Antiquities Act itself became sort of the political football that

939
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: was being lobbed back and forth. And it wasn't that

940
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: they felt like national monument designations were really infringing on

941
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 1: anything other than their ability to uh do resource extraction

942
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: in the state of Utah. Like you know, this really

943
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: became Utah versus Clinton administration and Obama administration issue. And

944
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,839
Speaker 1: you know, at the end of President Clinton's term when

945
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: Grand Staircase Escalante was designated under the Antiquities Act. And

946
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 1: for your listeners that don't know what the Antiquities Act is,

947
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: it was an an act that was championed by President

948
00:54:53,560 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt, passed by Congress two give executive authority to

949
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: the President to identify lands that had unique scientific characteristics

950
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: and cultural values that needed UH quick protection. Where Congress

951
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: UH failed to act or didn't have time to act,

952
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: the president could step in and do the right thing

953
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: because it was important to preserving antiquities, you know, things

954
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: like UM tribal sites and cultural sites and places of

955
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,320
Speaker 1: scientific value which you know extended things like fish and

956
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,919
Speaker 1: wildlife habitat and uh iconic landscapes. You know, the Grand

957
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: Canyon before it was the National Park, was actually a

958
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: National monument um. So that's how Grand Staircase, Escalante and

959
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: Bearsiers both were designated in the state of Utah, both

960
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: at the end of a term of a sitting Democratic president,

961
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: against the wishes of Republicans in the state of Utah

962
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: that we're concerned that these designations were going to prevent

963
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: their ability to um facilitate resource extraction, namely oil and

964
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: gas development and coal development. And so this review process

965
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: was largely instigated at the behest of of the Utah

966
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: delegation and their interest in sort of rolling back what

967
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,919
Speaker 1: the Claim administration and the Obama administration had done over

968
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,320
Speaker 1: over national monuments, and it was it was less about

969
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: what monuments themselves were actually doing as a designation. For

970
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 1: the most part, monument designations really enable lots of traditional

971
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 1: uses like grazing and even existing mining claims to to

972
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,760
Speaker 1: operate as they always have been. And in a way,

973
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:53,760
Speaker 1: national monuments can preserve and perpetuity things like grazing and

974
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing and uh protection of fishing, walife, habitat

975
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: because under under a national mind him it development is limited,

976
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 1: so you know, things like new resource extraction is disallowed,

977
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 1: um things like road building. You know, there is a

978
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: new level of of conservation protections put in place by

979
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: monument designations, and that's why they're great for fishing while

980
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: they have habitat and hunting and fishing opportunities. Not every

981
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: national monument has great fishing while they have tad and

982
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: not every national monument has great hunting and fishing opportunities,

983
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: but some of them do, especially some of the larger

984
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: Western monuments. And that's where we grew really concerned about

985
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: this debate. And it wasn't necessarily about a specific place

986
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 1: like Bears Ears. It was about setting a precedent that

987
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 1: any administration in the future could unravel what a previous

988
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: president had done before. This has never been touched. No

989
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 1: presidents ever tried to do this before, and any time

990
00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: there have been adjustments to a prior designation, they were

991
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: very minor and character had to do with some boundary

992
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 1: adjustment tweaks that made sense, and we're widely supported and

993
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: had no opposition to them. This is not the case.

994
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: Americans responded overwhelmingly in the monument review process UH. It

995
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 1: was in April of last year when President Trump asked

996
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: Secretary Zinkie to conduct this review process, and at the

997
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 1: end of the day, after overwhelming opposition from Americans all

998
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: across the country that cared about national monuments, they still

999
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: moved forward with UH making adjustments to both Grand Staircase

1000
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: Escalante and Bears Ears in Utah, with potential I still

1001
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: being set in in other monuments in the West. They

1002
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: have yet to act in some of the utter monuments

1003
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: in the West. But the Utah ones were sort of

1004
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 1: the the main prize and the goal and and something

1005
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 1: that mattered to the Utah delegation. And like I said before,

1006
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: it was the political football and it got thrown back

1007
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: the other direction. And so now we find ourselves in

1008
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: a place where groups are bringing litigation to push back

1009
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: against the decision that the administration made to make these

1010
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: monument boundary adjustments. The legal opinion is certainly that the

1011
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: president does have the authority to rescind or significantly alter

1012
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: monument designations, only create new ones. So I think we're

1013
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: gonna see this play out in the courts. In the meantime,

1014
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: the Utah delegation is hedging their bets. They probably deep

1015
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: down uh think that it's also illegal. So there they

1016
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: have developed and introduced legislation that essentially codifies the administration's

1017
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: boundary adjustments for both of those monuments. So there are

1018
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: legislative vehicles now too, um attempt to do legally what

1019
00:59:56,200 --> 01:00:00,439
Speaker 1: the president probably unlawfully can't do on his own. Sure,

1020
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: and then in so in the public eye that plays out, Yeah,

1021
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: there's no there's no nuance, there's no pragmatism. There's just

1022
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: this like scream from the mountain top on both sides.

1023
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: And so the examples that everyone would always point it

1024
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: would be one patigo and your posts on their website,

1025
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: a black, fully black template that just says in white lettering,

1026
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: the president stole your land, and and not as dramatic fashions,

1027
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: some of the pro Zinkie fleet of opinions would say,

1028
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: thanks Secretary Zinky for establishing more access for hunters. National

1029
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,479
Speaker 1: monuments restrict access in some ways, thank you for being

1030
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 1: such a wonderful Secretary of the Interior. So at some

1031
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: point you have one side characters that characterizing as it

1032
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: all win for hunters and anglers, and the other side

1033
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: character you know, making this a loss for all Americans.

1034
01:00:58,080 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: How are they there? But I feel like they're both

1035
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 1: kind of wrong. They're somewhere in the middle. Is the

1036
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: right answer? How would you characterize what the right answer is? Um?

1037
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 1: And feel free to just say this is how Patagoon

1038
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: you got it wrong, and this is how the other

1039
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 1: side got it wrong. Sorry, patagon They weren't the only ones,

1040
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: but they were just they happened to speak the loudest

1041
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: and most concisely about the issue on their side of things. Yeah. Uh,

1042
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: Patagonia is a great company that we align them with

1043
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:28,479
Speaker 1: on many things. UM. I appreciate the spirit in which

1044
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: they they responded to that, but in some ways their

1045
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: statements misleading. I mean, the president didn't steal your public

1046
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: lands like they've always been your public lands. And even

1047
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: this decision now you know, didn't take the public lands away.

1048
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 1: What it did was strip protections for these places and

1049
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: calling the question some of the the future conservation of

1050
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 1: these resources, Like you know, things that were protected before

1051
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: are now maybe threatened. And there are are looters and people,

1052
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: you know, robbing tribal burial sites and and um, you

1053
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: know what they call pot hunters, people looking for pottery

1054
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 1: and and artifacts. You know, it's only going to exacerbate

1055
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:19,439
Speaker 1: those existing problems and uh open up opportunities for um,

1056
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: you know, criminal acts like that. And so I think

1057
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 1: it's there. Their statement was perhaps a little misleading, but

1058
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 1: the spirit of it was, uh, you know, responding in

1059
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 1: frustration to what the president was doing that they felt

1060
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: was a glaring overreach of executive authority. And and we're

1061
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 1: taking sort of a more middle of the road approach

1062
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: on this. You know, there weren't really any access issues

1063
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 1: before the monuments. Monuments weren't preventing people from going and

1064
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing. Uh. The only thing that monuments could

1065
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: possibly have done would be, uh, to prevent you from

1066
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 1: blazing a new trail in your off road vehicle through

1067
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:04,479
Speaker 1: the middle of a sensitive fishing wild the habitat which

1068
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 1: if you're a real hunter preventing you from being an asshole.

1069
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: That's what we're gonna this was the title of this part,

1070
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: is going to be national monity to prevent you from

1071
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 1: being an asshole. So if you don't like a national monus,

1072
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: you're an asshole? Right? What what did you say on

1073
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 1: the other side? Right? And I will say I'm not

1074
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 1: afraid to just say, like I've I heard from RMDF

1075
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 1: and some different hunting organizations and WTF and others lauding

1076
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: this UH decision because it helped hunting access or helped

1077
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 1: hunters gain access to this national monity. Talk me through that.

1078
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: I sort of don't understand it, and I've tried to

1079
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 1: find out more on why some organizations feel that way.

1080
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 1: I don't fully understand it because there's not any new

1081
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: access created by this administrative action that didn't exist before. Um,

1082
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 1: you know, in the case of Grand Staircase Escalante, you know,

1083
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 1: maybe there may be an access issue, but it might

1084
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 1: be related to something like once it became a national monument,

1085
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 1: the popularity of Grand Staircase Escalani grew tremendously. People started

1086
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 1: visiting there more. They had to deal with the flow

1087
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: of traffic and things like that, so they created designated

1088
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 1: parking areas. So maybe if you're an old timer and

1089
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 1: you punted there your whole life, and there's a spot

1090
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 1: on the side of the road that used to always

1091
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: pull your truck over and hike into and go hunting,

1092
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: maybe you can't park on the side of the road

1093
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 1: like he used to because there's so many people traveling

1094
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: that road now, so you you have to make other

1095
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 1: arrangements for for parking your vehicle. But you still can

1096
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 1: walk in, and you can still hunt the same place

1097
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: as you did before. And there's no restrictions at all

1098
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:47,479
Speaker 1: on hunting and fishing. Um So you know, I tend

1099
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 1: to push back a little bit on that, and and

1100
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 1: and really fall back to what I said in the beginning,

1101
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 1: is it This is less about you know, whether or

1102
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: not hunting and fishing in Bears Ears and Grand Staircase

1103
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: Escalani is the best place to go hunting and fishing.

1104
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 1: This is about the potential unraveling of all national monuments anywhere.

1105
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 1: If you can do it Embarrassiers in Grand Staircase Esclanni,

1106
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 1: then you could do it in the Missouri River breaks

1107
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: in Montana, which is UH famous for upland game hunting

1108
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: and UH and and deer hunting and provides tremendous opportunities.

1109
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: Um it could unravel you know, hunting and fishing opportunity

1110
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 1: in places like uh Brown's Canyon in Colorado where you

1111
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: have tremendous blue ribbon fishery on the Arkansas River and

1112
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 1: you're you're catching huge brown trout, or uh el Rio

1113
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 1: Grande del Norte in northern Mexico where you have tremendous

1114
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 1: big game populations that are benefiting from the protections afforded

1115
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 1: by national monument designation. If if this administration is not

1116
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: looking to unravel monument designations in those states, that doesn't

1117
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:57,480
Speaker 1: mean that a future administration wouldn't. And by creating the

1118
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: precedent now that that you can and that executive authority exists,

1119
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: you compromise in perpetuity every single other monument designation that

1120
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: that's out there. And that's that's why b h A

1121
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: responded the way we did, is because we we looked

1122
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 1: at it as an assault on our public land's heritage

1123
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 1: but also a potential diminishing of of access and opportunity.

1124
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 1: And for us, you know, those are bread and butter

1125
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: issues and we're we're never afraid to stand by those

1126
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 1: breader bread and butter issues, and and um, you know,

1127
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why some organizations you know, um, you know,

1128
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: propelled some of the misinformation that's being spread by the

1129
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 1: administration to support their actions. Um. You know, the truth is,

1130
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 1: with very few exceptions, monument designations haven't really impaired access,

1131
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 1: and where they have, we're actively working to restore access.

1132
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 1: You know, we're currently working with a number of organizations

1133
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 1: in California to restore hunting access to Castle Mountains National Monument.

1134
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: You know, not through any uh specific nefarious um motivations.

1135
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 1: It was purely oversight. When that monument was designated, it

1136
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 1: moved into a Park Service management and as we as

1137
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 1: we discussed before, the Park Service managing certain public lands

1138
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 1: units means that hunting is no longer allowed because of

1139
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: how the organic Act that created the Park services interpreted

1140
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 1: and has been interpreted by legal scholars. So we're working

1141
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 1: with Congressman Cook's office, with Senator Feinstein's office, and um,

1142
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, quite a number of both state and national

1143
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 1: sportsman groups to say, hey, this is wrong. We need

1144
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 1: to restore hunting access here, and we're looking at solutions

1145
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 1: to be able to do that. And so so b

1146
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 1: H as you know, not out there with the Superman

1147
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 1: shirt that says national monuments are the best thing ever

1148
01:07:56,080 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 1: without you know, you know, any UH sort of qualification.

1149
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 1: We're saying monument designations can be great for fish and

1150
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 1: while they have habitsat We worked with a number of

1151
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 1: UH Sportsman partners to create a report that shows how

1152
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 1: monument designations can be done right, and we have we

1153
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:16,000
Speaker 1: established a set of tenants for doing monuments the right

1154
01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: way and when used judiciously, the Antiquities Act to create

1155
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 1: monuments can be a very powerful conservation tool. But we

1156
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 1: also acknowledge that they can be done wrong and and

1157
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 1: mistakes can happen. And Castle Mounts is as an example

1158
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: of where they got it wrong and how we're working

1159
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 1: to correct that so that hunting access can be restored. So,

1160
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, I think that um, both sides tend to

1161
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 1: get comfortable and the polarity that exists in our political spectrum,

1162
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,679
Speaker 1: and and they dig their heels in and they they're

1163
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: afraid to come out of their trenches to you know,

1164
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:52,600
Speaker 1: shake hands in the middle once in a while. And

1165
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:55,439
Speaker 1: b H is trying to be a moderate group that's

1166
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 1: coming to the middle and putting together thoughtful solutions that

1167
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 1: helped vance the conversations around you know, figuring out ways

1168
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: to address some of these complex conservation issues that we're

1169
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 1: dealing with. And and we want to be a centrist

1170
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 1: organization that UM acknowledges that, you know, both sides have

1171
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 1: pieces that they're right about, but sometimes mistakes are made

1172
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,639
Speaker 1: and uh, and that's human nature. And the best thing

1173
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:25,640
Speaker 1: we can do as an organization and as hunters and

1174
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 1: anglers has helped be uh peace brokers. And you know,

1175
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:31,720
Speaker 1: I grew up out west in Idaho, and uh, the

1176
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 1: way you get things done out here is you sit

1177
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 1: around the breakfast table together and you figure it out,

1178
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: and you walk away and you be a good neighbor

1179
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 1: and you make responsible choices and at the end of

1180
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: the day, you do what's right because it's the right

1181
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 1: thing to do, and you don't need to ask any

1182
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 1: other questions than that. Yeah, And I think that's one

1183
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:51,919
Speaker 1: of the reasons why I wanted to have yawn UM,

1184
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: just because I that to me that the bears of

1185
01:09:56,160 --> 01:10:00,600
Speaker 1: yours national money situation codifies the problem that exists in

1186
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:04,240
Speaker 1: the extreme points of view on both sides, I imagine,

1187
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:05,800
Speaker 1: and you can tell me if you disagree with this,

1188
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 1: that those extreme points of view. We're very grounded in environmentalism,

1189
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 1: protection of wild places and lands across the board, and

1190
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:21,640
Speaker 1: then on the other side the desire to extract resources

1191
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 1: and make money off those lanes. So those two points

1192
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:29,719
Speaker 1: have developed into these extreme polars And in the center

1193
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,920
Speaker 1: is this void where hall of people that just want

1194
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 1: to enjoy public lands and want to enjoy national monuments

1195
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:40,360
Speaker 1: and would probably always defer to the people on the

1196
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,000
Speaker 1: ground and say what what do you want? What's best

1197
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 1: for you? UM? And I think that situation to me

1198
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 1: was concerning because it was so polar it got kind

1199
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 1: of sucked into the vacuum that is our media cycle,

1200
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:56,640
Speaker 1: and it got turned into that spit back out as

1201
01:10:56,760 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 1: this very polarizing situation. And and they're just needed to

1202
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 1: be education. And I hope that Beach A can continue

1203
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 1: to be a center for education and pushing just as

1204
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 1: you said, pragmatic policy that is that pushes forward what's

1205
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 1: good for hunters and anglers. And I could tell you

1206
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 1: I was telling Land earlier today, UM, in our meeting,

1207
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 1: that I've gotten just from this podcast. I've gotten a

1208
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 1: lot of people that would say I'm thirty five years old,

1209
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:25,840
Speaker 1: I have two kids. I never thought about hunting until

1210
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 1: this happened to me. Then I started to think about it.

1211
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 1: I went out in research and researched. Then I joined

1212
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:34,599
Speaker 1: b h A. Then I went out and got a bow.

1213
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 1: Then I went I got a rifle. And I think

1214
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 1: there's a growing number of people that are realizing as

1215
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 1: you're well aware, I mean twenty thousand members from how

1216
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:44,599
Speaker 1: many when you when you started, how many members were there?

1217
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 1: We had about a thousand members, I think, and we've

1218
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:49,760
Speaker 1: been doubling our membership every year for the last several years.

1219
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 1: It's twenty fold increase. And these people are understanding that

1220
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 1: that not only do not only do they need to

1221
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 1: buy a license and contribute that way, if they when

1222
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 1: they buy uns and bows and the emo and arrows,

1223
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 1: they'll contribute via excess tax I think people are starting

1224
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:08,679
Speaker 1: to understand that. But what they also understand is that

1225
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 1: they have to be a player in this game for

1226
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 1: this to continue, because, as you said, when when public

1227
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 1: land or wilderness goes away, when we cut a road

1228
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:20,200
Speaker 1: through a place, we can know we can't go back

1229
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 1: and get what what we lost. And so that's why

1230
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 1: I think as many people that I've talked to that

1231
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 1: have listened to some of the topics that we've had

1232
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 1: here in the past, are including B h A in

1233
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 1: their conversation of I'm thirty, I'm forty, I'm fifty, I've

1234
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 1: never thought about hunting. Now I do because they understand

1235
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 1: the need for that pragmatism, and you guys have been

1236
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: a leader in that. And I think that's to me,

1237
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 1: why if we could have if we could bring every

1238
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 1: group to the center, especially in the political spectrum. I

1239
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 1: don't think National Wild Turkey Federation, there's not polarizing topics

1240
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 1: inside of Turkey hunting. So they're pretty lucky in that way. Yeah,

1241
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:00,760
Speaker 1: they're like I mean, they to stand on top of

1242
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 1: the mountain and essentially declare victory, like they've been one

1243
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: of the most effective conservation organizations and fully restoring uh

1244
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:11,599
Speaker 1: Turkey populations all around the country. And they've also done

1245
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 1: a great job after they after it was no longer

1246
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 1: you know, a need to go transferred Turkey populations and

1247
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 1: and habitat seemingly was improving and then being codified. Then

1248
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 1: they then they switched over to youth. How can we

1249
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 1: get really smart people, really smart choice the way to

1250
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 1: do it, and so they've had that. But when it

1251
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 1: comes to the politics of it, um, they've stepped in

1252
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 1: sometimes and and made some statements about national monuments or

1253
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 1: Zinki's action here or Zinky's action there. Um. Same with

1254
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 1: our army YEF. They've done great things with easements and

1255
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:46,639
Speaker 1: habitat and there's never been more elk. I don't believe

1256
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: in this continent that there are right now, um. But

1257
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 1: there's also that political side where they feel like they

1258
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 1: may have to speak in one way or the other way.

1259
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:57,599
Speaker 1: So I just think that those are great organizations. They

1260
01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,600
Speaker 1: do a great job with what what their missions are

1261
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: and you guys have taken a broader mission um and

1262
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:05,840
Speaker 1: made it yours, and I think that's why it's important. Yeah,

1263
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:08,640
Speaker 1: we've learned a lot from those legacy sportsman groups and

1264
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 1: they're you know, incredibly important partners to us, and uh

1265
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:14,479
Speaker 1: we want to you know, build on the successes that

1266
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:18,600
Speaker 1: they've achieved, but also maybe occupy a space that is

1267
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 1: less comfortable for some of those organizations too. Like you know,

1268
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 1: we do a lot of work on accountability and holding

1269
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 1: decision makers accountable for their decisions, and you know that

1270
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 1: can come with consequences if not done the right way.

1271
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 1: And I know that, UM A lot of groups tend

1272
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:37,600
Speaker 1: to shy away from that because you don't want to

1273
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 1: close off your relationships and access with decision makers and leaders.

1274
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 1: And and I think that's important UM and and b

1275
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:50,599
Speaker 1: h A is UH taking a pretty strong, uh brave

1276
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 1: approach to dealing with decision makers in a way that

1277
01:14:54,920 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 1: we feel is UM, you know, without without any obligation

1278
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:05,640
Speaker 1: to sensitivities on either side of the political political spectrum.

1279
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:07,839
Speaker 1: We don't care if you're a Republican or a Democrat.

1280
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:11,720
Speaker 1: If you're making bad votes that work against fishing while

1281
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:15,000
Speaker 1: they habitat and hunting and fishing opportunities, we're gonna come

1282
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 1: after you. Uh. We support the Second Amendment, but public

1283
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:22,639
Speaker 1: lands and waters are our second second Amendment, and UH,

1284
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 1: we're gonna put you in the crosshairs if you come

1285
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 1: after public lands and waters. And I think it's okay

1286
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 1: to be bold when you're being bold for the right

1287
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 1: reasons and and you deal with integrity, you do with

1288
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 1: respect and sincerity. I think that's why some of our

1289
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 1: members are responding to the way we handle ourselves in

1290
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 1: the conservation space because we're we're not afraid to say

1291
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 1: some of those things. And I think it gives some

1292
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 1: of our partner organizations a little more elbow room to

1293
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 1: be successful in their spaces. And uh, we can you know,

1294
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 1: going back to what I said earlier about having expertise

1295
01:15:56,560 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 1: and you know, individualized areas of specialty. You know, maybe

1296
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 1: the advocacy accountability side of conservation sportsman's organizations is where

1297
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 1: b h A is creating a specialty that didn't really

1298
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 1: exist there before. And we're taking some of the hard

1299
01:16:13,120 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 1: hits on the nose, but we're throwing some punches ourselves too,

1300
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,720
Speaker 1: and it feels pretty good, you know, like, uh, you know,

1301
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:23,599
Speaker 1: we're scrappy and uh and while we prefer to settle

1302
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:26,600
Speaker 1: things in a civilized way, uh, sometimes you've got to

1303
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:29,040
Speaker 1: get down into the mud and roll around in the

1304
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 1: weeds a little bit too. Well. I mean, I think

1305
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:33,840
Speaker 1: I hate to keep bringing up Patagon because I never

1306
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:37,400
Speaker 1: I never really do. But we're you know, we're wearing

1307
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:39,600
Speaker 1: Patago and you vesta ch a logoes on him and

1308
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 1: you've tion artists coming into Idaho. Yeah, it's like two

1309
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:44,760
Speaker 1: boise for the for the Ron Davy, we'll probably be

1310
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:47,920
Speaker 1: here what tomorrow gonna be speaking on Saturday and speaking

1311
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:51,719
Speaker 1: a little bit um tomorrow. That's fairly that's a huge

1312
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 1: deal for somebody like art. Folks don't know. He's the

1313
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:58,920
Speaker 1: founder of Padagoon and a big activist in many ways

1314
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 1: and many issues, and a huge voice, monumental voice in

1315
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:08,439
Speaker 1: the outdoor recreation community. And he's a serious angler and love. Yeah,

1316
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 1: so we got I mean, and I think it would

1317
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:13,479
Speaker 1: probably have been I don't know if it would have

1318
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 1: been completely out of bounds to think that he would

1319
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,640
Speaker 1: come to a gathering of hunters and anglers at some

1320
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:20,640
Speaker 1: point in the last decade, but I know it was

1321
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:24,280
Speaker 1: a whole lot less probable that he would have done so.

1322
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 1: And so then when I found out he was coming

1323
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 1: to speak to this group, I thought, that's just the

1324
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 1: perfect And even in our earlier conversation about what Patganny

1325
01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 1: did we didn't agree with. It's the perfect magam of like, yeah,

1326
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 1: do we agree with everything that Ivan Grenard has ever done? No,

1327
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 1: or his company for that matter, No, But is he

1328
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:48,639
Speaker 1: an advocate for public lands and for what we believe?

1329
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 1: And are we willing to fight with him for the

1330
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:54,840
Speaker 1: things that we agree upon? Absolutely? And he having him

1331
01:17:54,880 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 1: here helps more than hurts UM and don't know that

1332
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 1: it hurts at all for for anyone that has a

1333
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:06,439
Speaker 1: problem with Van Shard. And I think b h A

1334
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,679
Speaker 1: has heard some of that UM rolling into this. Yeah,

1335
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:12,400
Speaker 1: and I would I would say, I would say that

1336
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 1: anyone who doesn't believe we need to make a stronger

1337
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 1: alliance with that actual recreation user, especially when it comes

1338
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 1: to public lands, is foolish And anyway that we can

1339
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:25,720
Speaker 1: do that in any organization that's facilitating that should be

1340
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 1: applauded every time. I totally agree with you, and I

1341
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:34,599
Speaker 1: think part of the part of the reason we aren't

1342
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:38,479
Speaker 1: being as successful as we could be is because we're

1343
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 1: doing a bad job of coming together and uniting around

1344
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 1: a common cause. You know, we're not always gonna be

1345
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 1: able to hold hands and and work together on issues

1346
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:52,479
Speaker 1: that we agree with with any organization, whether it's you know,

1347
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:55,040
Speaker 1: someone on the left or someone on the right. But

1348
01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:58,840
Speaker 1: I think there is a huge number of groups and

1349
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:02,720
Speaker 1: organizations on both sides, both within the sportsman's community and

1350
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:06,559
Speaker 1: the outdoor recreation community that share our values for fish

1351
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:09,600
Speaker 1: and wild iife conservation, and we want to create a

1352
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:12,680
Speaker 1: space for us to come together and do more in

1353
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:17,519
Speaker 1: a unified way that's compelling and instead of getting caught

1354
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 1: up in UH you know, patriarchical ways of doing things

1355
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 1: of of the past and looking at ways to be

1356
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:30,240
Speaker 1: more innovative and and sometimes that that means working with

1357
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:35,160
Speaker 1: UH brands and corporations and organizations and people that don't

1358
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:37,800
Speaker 1: hunt and fish because they care about public lands and

1359
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:40,040
Speaker 1: water is the same way we do. If we can

1360
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 1: work together, I think we can advance a lot of things.

1361
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 1: And and that doesn't mean that we can't, you know,

1362
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 1: go back to our respective camps and focus in on

1363
01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 1: the things that you know, our constituents care about, and

1364
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean that we can't disagree with each

1365
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 1: other from time to time. I think if you do

1366
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:59,200
Speaker 1: those things respectfully, and if you're acting in a professional

1367
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:02,599
Speaker 1: manner and you're working together, we can get things done

1368
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 1: and put aside differences when they exist. And I think

1369
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 1: the sportsman's community in general, you know, should be working

1370
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:13,280
Speaker 1: more with the outdoor industry groups. There is a number

1371
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:18,280
Speaker 1: of outdoor recreation interests. Whether you're a mountain bike group

1372
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:21,320
Speaker 1: or a backpacking group or a climbing group, and whether

1373
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:24,519
Speaker 1: you're a business that that makes gear and clothing to

1374
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:27,639
Speaker 1: support those entities. We all have a lot in common,

1375
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,080
Speaker 1: we have a lot to lose. It's all in the

1376
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:32,599
Speaker 1: line for all of us. So we should be marshaling

1377
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 1: our resources instead of getting distracted by what uh maybe

1378
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:41,000
Speaker 1: separates us or what we disagree about, and instead focus

1379
01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 1: on the things that we do care about. So we're

1380
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:45,760
Speaker 1: working together to push things down the field and make

1381
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:49,040
Speaker 1: a difference for conservation. And I think that you know,

1382
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:50,960
Speaker 1: at some point in time, you gotta you gotta look

1383
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 1: your kids in the eyes and say you did the

1384
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:55,639
Speaker 1: right things, and you tried as hard as you could

1385
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 1: to do the best you could to ensure that their

1386
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 1: future is as bright as yours was. And hopefully you

1387
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:04,680
Speaker 1: leave things in a better place than when you came

1388
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 1: into this world. And we have this collective obligation to

1389
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:11,200
Speaker 1: stewardship to sort of hand down this legacy of stewardship

1390
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 1: that I think is is really important and and if

1391
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 1: we look at it from a valuous perspective and instead

1392
01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:19,679
Speaker 1: of getting caught up in some of the political rhetoric,

1393
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:22,640
Speaker 1: I think that benefits us all. And uh, you know,

1394
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:25,639
Speaker 1: taking it back to the idea of like your legacy

1395
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:28,599
Speaker 1: of stewardship and how you want to treat the wild

1396
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:31,040
Speaker 1: places that give back to us so much. You know,

1397
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:35,200
Speaker 1: I think, um, and maybe I'm biased, but hunting and

1398
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:38,760
Speaker 1: fishing to me is deeply personal and it's a part

1399
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 1: of my soul and a part of who I am.

1400
01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:42,680
Speaker 1: It's not paying playing tennis on the weekend, right, Like,

1401
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing is something I have to do, and

1402
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 1: these wild places are something that are part of my soul.

1403
01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 1: And when I'm up there and on top of a mountain,

1404
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:55,280
Speaker 1: it's a spiritual experience. You don't get that by playing

1405
01:21:55,280 --> 01:21:57,880
Speaker 1: golf on the weekends. And I think that just because

1406
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 1: I do it with a bow or a rye full

1407
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:02,760
Speaker 1: or a fly rod in my hand, doesn't mean that

1408
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:05,479
Speaker 1: the same person doing it with binoculars are taking their

1409
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:08,200
Speaker 1: family on a backpacking trip isn't having that same type

1410
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:10,599
Speaker 1: of experience. So I think if we can come back

1411
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:15,680
Speaker 1: and relate to each other that really basic values way,

1412
01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 1: then that's the right way to move things forward. And

1413
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:21,960
Speaker 1: I think telling stories two decision makers about why these

1414
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:24,639
Speaker 1: places are meaningful and important to us will help them

1415
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:27,720
Speaker 1: understand why we care about it, And it helped get

1416
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:31,000
Speaker 1: outside of the politics of conservation. Yeah, that's a huge

1417
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,760
Speaker 1: thing for me to just just understanding how we can

1418
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:37,280
Speaker 1: better articulate these things to each other. I mean, we could.

1419
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 1: We could lose a lot if we said listen, listen, Yvonne. Uh.

1420
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:44,559
Speaker 1: We don't agree on predator hunting. You don't want any

1421
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:47,680
Speaker 1: predator hunting, We don't. We we think kill all the

1422
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:49,840
Speaker 1: wolves and tis of course that's not what we think.

1423
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:54,640
Speaker 1: But if we were unwilling to see the ties that

1424
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:56,760
Speaker 1: bind us and we're only going to focus on the

1425
01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:59,400
Speaker 1: things that don't, the things that don't bind us together,

1426
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,240
Speaker 1: were never gonna win. And as as you said, I

1427
01:23:02,280 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 1: have a young son, and I always think about part

1428
01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 1: of my reason for being here this weekend has won

1429
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 1: my job, but two moreover, just thinking about him and

1430
01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:14,040
Speaker 1: thinking about how am I gonna make sure when he's

1431
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:16,160
Speaker 1: old enough that he understands what this is like. And

1432
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:21,200
Speaker 1: you live in Illinois or Iowa or Texas and places

1433
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:24,839
Speaker 1: that there aren't big tracts of public land, your life,

1434
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:27,880
Speaker 1: in my opinion, is considerably different than if you live

1435
01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:30,679
Speaker 1: in Idaho, if you live in Montana, or you've lived

1436
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 1: in Utah or Idaho, um any of these states that

1437
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:38,920
Speaker 1: have large tracks public land. Colorado isn't another example. Your

1438
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:42,240
Speaker 1: life is just totally different. You don't have the same

1439
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:45,920
Speaker 1: feeling um of wandering that you can just get up

1440
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:48,960
Speaker 1: on in the morning and go for a hike and

1441
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:51,400
Speaker 1: get lost and and find yourself on a mountain you've

1442
01:23:51,439 --> 01:23:54,240
Speaker 1: never been on. You just don't have that um in Texas.

1443
01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:57,040
Speaker 1: I live in Texas. There is not. You just don't

1444
01:23:57,080 --> 01:23:58,600
Speaker 1: have the same feeling when you wake up in the

1445
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:00,679
Speaker 1: morning and you know that you can't just go out

1446
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 1: and find a place that's that belongs to you and

1447
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:07,920
Speaker 1: everybody else. And so I think that's it's tangible. It isn't.

1448
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:10,719
Speaker 1: It's not something that's so opaque that we can't see

1449
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 1: it in our own lives. If you're listening to this

1450
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:14,720
Speaker 1: and you live in a place where you have to

1451
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 1: drive six hours of public land, and you're listening to this,

1452
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 1: and you live in a place where you can literally

1453
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:21,080
Speaker 1: hop on a bike, you can go right around in

1454
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:23,880
Speaker 1: a wilderness area or or better yet, walk around in

1455
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 1: the wilderness area you're live, you're a lot. Those two

1456
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:31,040
Speaker 1: lives are completely different. UM. And what you're fighting for

1457
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:33,439
Speaker 1: and what I what I feel strongly about the same

1458
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:36,599
Speaker 1: is the ability for anyone to go out and have

1459
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:39,360
Speaker 1: that experience, because that experience is way more than just

1460
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:41,840
Speaker 1: a one or two or three day haul. It's a

1461
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:45,639
Speaker 1: lifetime of feeling that there's something out there that belongs

1462
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:47,720
Speaker 1: to everybody. Yeah, and I think I think that's a

1463
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:51,160
Speaker 1: great point. And one thing that you know, we try

1464
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:53,760
Speaker 1: and do as an organization too, is there's meet people

1465
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:57,320
Speaker 1: where they're at. And uh, back country can be a

1466
01:24:57,400 --> 01:25:00,040
Speaker 1: state of mind as much as a physical place. And

1467
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:05,920
Speaker 1: back country to you might mean Bayou in the backwoods

1468
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:11,120
Speaker 1: of Louisiana someplace, and your cruising around in flooded timber

1469
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:14,280
Speaker 1: and and you're lost, I mean you're in the back country,

1470
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:18,360
Speaker 1: you know, back country for you might be uh, you know,

1471
01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 1: offshore fishing in the Gulf Coast somewhere and you can't

1472
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 1: see a spec and land in sight. Maybe ocean is

1473
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:30,400
Speaker 1: the original back country and and one of the wildest frontiers.

1474
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 1: There's people that think that way about the ocean. There's

1475
01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:37,760
Speaker 1: people that live in Maine. And while it's not the

1476
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:40,400
Speaker 1: same as hunting public lands in the West, where you

1477
01:25:40,479 --> 01:25:42,920
Speaker 1: have beer of land management lands or for service lands,

1478
01:25:43,320 --> 01:25:46,560
Speaker 1: you might be hunting uh, timber company lands and in

1479
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:52,360
Speaker 1: the main way of life and main traditions. UH timber

1480
01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:56,400
Speaker 1: companies do a great service to hunters by providing public

1481
01:25:56,439 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 1: access and opportunities on lands where you don't have like

1482
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:03,160
Speaker 1: these large blocks of lands in the West. And so

1483
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:06,439
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I think people find b h

1484
01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:09,599
Speaker 1: A appealing and why we're growing in places like the

1485
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:13,280
Speaker 1: Southeast and the Northeast and the mid Atlantic is because

1486
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 1: we're not confining ourselves to just public lands in the West.

1487
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:19,760
Speaker 1: We're looking at what does back country mean to you?

1488
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:23,600
Speaker 1: And and we're also looking at public access and opportunity,

1489
01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:27,360
Speaker 1: and that might mean forging relationships with state and local

1490
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 1: governments and private landowners that facilitate access for hunting and fishing.

1491
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:36,759
Speaker 1: And you might be in Pennsylvania, outside of Philadelphia somewhere,

1492
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:38,920
Speaker 1: but you can find a piece of land where you're

1493
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:41,920
Speaker 1: the only person on it and you're you know, you're hunting,

1494
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 1: and and you don't see a single soul the other day,

1495
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 1: and you're having the same experience of solace and and

1496
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 1: silence and and that quietude of outdoor recreation that the

1497
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 1: same person you know, climbing a fourteen thousand foot peak

1498
01:26:59,160 --> 01:27:02,519
Speaker 1: in Colorado as having, or the same person that's doing

1499
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:06,439
Speaker 1: a seven day backpacking trip for Elk and the Bob

1500
01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 1: Marshall alwerness is having you know, we're all having similar experiences,

1501
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:13,240
Speaker 1: and the topography and the landscapes that we're doing it

1502
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:16,280
Speaker 1: in might be different. But back countries is a state

1503
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:19,639
Speaker 1: of mind as much as it is a place. And

1504
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:22,880
Speaker 1: we like to consider both and we give equal weight

1505
01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:26,160
Speaker 1: and importance to both because part of why we care

1506
01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:29,960
Speaker 1: about these places is because they're wild, and because they

1507
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:33,360
Speaker 1: give us time to reflect and recharge your batteries and

1508
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:36,520
Speaker 1: get our boots dirty and get our souls clean, and

1509
01:27:36,520 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 1: and I think that that's ultimately, at the end of

1510
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:41,559
Speaker 1: the day, what helps bring people together. If we can

1511
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:46,080
Speaker 1: focus on those elements and do things that extend those

1512
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:50,400
Speaker 1: opportunities no matter where you live, helps bring us together

1513
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:54,839
Speaker 1: in a way that is very compelling and our most basic,

1514
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:59,120
Speaker 1: you know, fundamental level of human nature. Like you know,

1515
01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:01,479
Speaker 1: having those connects is I think is really important and

1516
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:04,960
Speaker 1: helps bind us together. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you being

1517
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:07,439
Speaker 1: on the front lines of of all that. And it's

1518
01:28:07,479 --> 01:28:09,400
Speaker 1: your daily life. It's what you do, it's what you

1519
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:13,160
Speaker 1: live and breathe, and I appreciate all you do. Yeah, well,

1520
01:28:13,400 --> 01:28:15,439
Speaker 1: I do we do what we can. But um, like

1521
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:19,000
Speaker 1: you said, I I think about my young son and

1522
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:21,600
Speaker 1: and for all all. Honestly, I'm on the h A

1523
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:24,479
Speaker 1: National board and when Lantani was talking to me about

1524
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:26,320
Speaker 1: coming on, and he said, why would you want to

1525
01:28:26,360 --> 01:28:27,880
Speaker 1: do that? You have all this other stuff going on.

1526
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:29,240
Speaker 1: Why is it important you to be a part of

1527
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:32,400
Speaker 1: an organization like this in this way? And my only

1528
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:35,240
Speaker 1: response was, I have a son and I don't and

1529
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:37,640
Speaker 1: I want him to have the opportunities I've had, and

1530
01:28:37,640 --> 01:28:39,880
Speaker 1: I wanted to know about the things that I've known about,

1531
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 1: and I want him to understand what why that's important

1532
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:45,200
Speaker 1: not only for him and I to enjoy, but for

1533
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:49,040
Speaker 1: the generations that come after us. And that's that's why

1534
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:51,360
Speaker 1: I believe in it, and that's why why all of

1535
01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:53,400
Speaker 1: us are doing what we're doing. So I mean, it sounds,

1536
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:56,080
Speaker 1: you know, it sounds preachy to say something like that.

1537
01:28:56,120 --> 01:28:58,760
Speaker 1: I don't normally try not to get it. I have

1538
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:01,240
Speaker 1: a daughter two and I think, uh, a lot of

1539
01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:04,280
Speaker 1: people think that way, Like when you become a parent,

1540
01:29:04,439 --> 01:29:07,280
Speaker 1: things change in your life. And I've always been dedicated

1541
01:29:07,360 --> 01:29:10,439
Speaker 1: to conservation and and this type of work even before

1542
01:29:10,479 --> 01:29:13,240
Speaker 1: my daughter was born. But when she was born, things change.

1543
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,360
Speaker 1: You become a parent, You become responsible for another life.

1544
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:19,960
Speaker 1: And part of your job as a parent is to

1545
01:29:20,040 --> 01:29:23,640
Speaker 1: make sure your your child has a good life. And

1546
01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:27,439
Speaker 1: and for me, providing a good life means being able

1547
01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:29,719
Speaker 1: to take her hunting and fishing in the same places

1548
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:31,840
Speaker 1: that my dad took me hunting and fishing in, to

1549
01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:35,880
Speaker 1: pass on those family traditions and those experiences, and uh,

1550
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:38,880
Speaker 1: and so it makes it deeply personal and very emotional.

1551
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:41,719
Speaker 1: And uh, I think I think that's why it's special

1552
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:44,040
Speaker 1: and why we care so much, and as part of

1553
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:46,960
Speaker 1: why I think people get fired up too, and sometimes

1554
01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:50,240
Speaker 1: that escalates in a in a media space and and

1555
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:53,080
Speaker 1: in the halls of Capitol Hill, and ultimately, at the

1556
01:29:53,160 --> 01:29:55,320
Speaker 1: end of the day, like if you distill things down

1557
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 1: and understand why people are being passionate about the things

1558
01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:01,840
Speaker 1: they're passionate about up, you can never go wrong if

1559
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:04,559
Speaker 1: you go down that path. And I think people respect

1560
01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:06,600
Speaker 1: you when you you know, at least attempt to do

1561
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:09,360
Speaker 1: that and understand what the better side is motivated by,

1562
01:30:09,479 --> 01:30:12,280
Speaker 1: for sure. And that's what I have always said. There

1563
01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:15,280
Speaker 1: has to be a moment in your life where you

1564
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:18,040
Speaker 1: just decide when you come to this either it's an

1565
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:20,439
Speaker 1: epiphany or it's just a lifelong slog where you're like,

1566
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:23,040
Speaker 1: this is what I'm passionate about. And I'm sure there's

1567
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:25,880
Speaker 1: people listening to this who already have the passion we have,

1568
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:28,799
Speaker 1: and there's probably some people listening that haven't quite discovered

1569
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:30,800
Speaker 1: that passion yet. And what I would tell people, as man,

1570
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:33,719
Speaker 1: if you already have the passion for public LANs, for hunting,

1571
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:36,320
Speaker 1: for fishing, whatever it is, keeps stoking that thing and

1572
01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:38,920
Speaker 1: keep beating the doors down if if something's in your way,

1573
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:41,920
Speaker 1: if you haven't found it yet, go like, give this

1574
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 1: a shot. Because I think hunting is pretty kick ass.

1575
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:47,040
Speaker 1: I think fishing is pretty kick ass, and if you're

1576
01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:49,280
Speaker 1: not doing it, then just give it a shot. Um.

1577
01:30:49,320 --> 01:30:50,679
Speaker 1: And I think b h A has been a great

1578
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:54,040
Speaker 1: vehicle for a lot of people to get it done. So, UM,

1579
01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:56,360
Speaker 1: that's a pretty good first podcast. You did. Fine, Thanks man.

1580
01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:01,280
Speaker 1: We've got housekeeping coming. Welcome to the already housekeeping housekeeping

1581
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:04,439
Speaker 1: came in. Hey housekeeping, UM set him up on the

1582
01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:08,960
Speaker 1: mic residents in thanks appreciate it, good time. Um, Yeah, man,

1583
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:11,760
Speaker 1: I really just appreciate everything that you do and coming

1584
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:14,760
Speaker 1: on and talking to me and un yeah you too.

1585
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:16,720
Speaker 1: It was great. Awesome brother, let's do it again. We

1586
01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:20,439
Speaker 1: will cheers. So yeah, back to simpler times, Simple times lagger.

1587
01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:27,080
Speaker 1: That's it the episode number eleven in the books. Really

1588
01:31:27,080 --> 01:31:31,120
Speaker 1: appreciate John for sitting down and talking about public lands

1589
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:34,479
Speaker 1: and talking about some of the more in depth policies,

1590
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:37,320
Speaker 1: but also more some of the more broad strokes that

1591
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:39,280
Speaker 1: have to do with public lands, because I think it's

1592
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:42,679
Speaker 1: important to both understand even the most simple ideas about

1593
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:46,160
Speaker 1: public land, but also uh be pushed to get a

1594
01:31:46,160 --> 01:31:49,519
Speaker 1: little more in depth. And John certainly lives the life

1595
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:54,160
Speaker 1: public land policy and conservation policy in this country, so

1596
01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 1: he was a great resource for this conversation. I want

1597
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:01,320
Speaker 1: to thank everybody who came out into back Country hundred

1598
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:04,760
Speaker 1: and Anglers, Rendezvous and Idaho this past weekend. I was

1599
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:06,400
Speaker 1: there a couple of days. I didn't get to really

1600
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:08,599
Speaker 1: see as many people as I wanted to. I had

1601
01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:12,719
Speaker 1: to roll out for my little niece's first birthday, which

1602
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:15,200
Speaker 1: was an awesome event in our lives. I wish I

1603
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:17,160
Speaker 1: could have stayed for the Friday and Saturday events. I

1604
01:32:17,160 --> 01:32:20,839
Speaker 1: had to jump out a little early, but I followed

1605
01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:23,600
Speaker 1: along and everybody's social media looked like everything from the

1606
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:26,400
Speaker 1: brew fest to the storytelling event, everything that was there,

1607
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:28,679
Speaker 1: it was a good time. There's a lot of great

1608
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:31,360
Speaker 1: energy in the room. And another thing I wanted the

1609
01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:37,360
Speaker 1: sushion one is Yvonne Channard as the founder of of Patagonia.

1610
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:42,680
Speaker 1: He's a seminal voice in the outdoor wreck industry and

1611
01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:45,120
Speaker 1: somebody who now we can count as a part of

1612
01:32:45,120 --> 01:32:48,320
Speaker 1: our public men's team. The man showed up to a

1613
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:51,720
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing gathering and spoke highly of not only

1614
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:53,880
Speaker 1: the people in the room, but the purpose for why

1615
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:57,280
Speaker 1: they assembled, and that is I can't tell you how

1616
01:32:57,360 --> 01:33:00,600
Speaker 1: much that means to me, how much that means to

1617
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:02,559
Speaker 1: b H and I think how much that means to

1618
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:08,000
Speaker 1: everybody in that room in Idaho. So I'm sure Yvonne

1619
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:10,519
Speaker 1: will never listen to this, but I would thank him

1620
01:33:10,640 --> 01:33:14,720
Speaker 1: for coming and being a part of arnimal community and

1621
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:17,240
Speaker 1: speaking highly of the hunters in the room, which I

1622
01:33:17,280 --> 01:33:20,680
Speaker 1: think for anybody who knows patagon and knows their history

1623
01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:24,400
Speaker 1: is a big damn deed. So we appreciate having yvon

1624
01:33:24,680 --> 01:33:30,519
Speaker 1: and Patagon in the house for that event. So that's

1625
01:33:30,560 --> 01:33:33,840
Speaker 1: all I gotta say about that. Hopefully we'll be talking

1626
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:38,000
Speaker 1: to some more folks from h and keep chronicling this

1627
01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:41,400
Speaker 1: organization because I am a part of it, but it

1628
01:33:41,479 --> 01:33:44,240
Speaker 1: is also just a badass place to be a lot

1629
01:33:44,240 --> 01:33:48,000
Speaker 1: of energy, and I'm biased, but I think if you

1630
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 1: had to next year's rounding vou you'll find out why

1631
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:55,479
Speaker 1: I'm biased. So the Honey Collective dot Com is there

1632
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:57,320
Speaker 1: for you to check out if you want to listen

1633
01:33:57,360 --> 01:34:00,240
Speaker 1: to all the other podcasts we've done, Steve Rinella, Remy Run,

1634
01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 1: John Dudley, Johnny Gale that you just heard from a

1635
01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:07,320
Speaker 1: bunch of them. I can't think of them all now,

1636
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:09,479
Speaker 1: but they're all there, so you just go check it out.

1637
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:12,559
Speaker 1: Click on podcasts, clip on articles, clip on videos, click

1638
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:17,200
Speaker 1: on or whatever, and it's all there. We're on iTunes, Stitcher,

1639
01:34:17,439 --> 01:34:22,280
Speaker 1: We're now on Google Play and morticome. Hopefully we'll add

1640
01:34:22,320 --> 01:34:26,400
Speaker 1: YouTube to that list, knocking those down and get more

1641
01:34:26,439 --> 01:34:30,200
Speaker 1: outlets for you to listen to The Honey Club. That's it.

1642
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:38,559
Speaker 1: That's all, Episode number eleven, Bye Bye,