1
00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:11,360
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,

2
00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,000
Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck

3
00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,280
Speaker 1: and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you should know. Oh,

4
00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,240
Speaker 1: Jerry left, she was here, I think just long enough

5
00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,760
Speaker 1: for the interest of that count. All right, sure, how

6
00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:27,360
Speaker 1: are you doing.

7
00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,400
Speaker 2: I'm great. I'm kind of excited about this one because

8
00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,440
Speaker 2: this is one that out you got intro.

9
00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:35,760
Speaker 1: Yeah you ready?

10
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:36,160
Speaker 2: Yeah?

11
00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:37,640
Speaker 1: Here Chuck?

12
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:39,680
Speaker 2: Yes, have you.

13
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,880
Speaker 1: Ever heard of World War Two? Oh?

14
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:44,640
Speaker 2: I missed those?

15
00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:46,480
Speaker 1: Well?

16
00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,640
Speaker 2: Sure, the big one, Okay, the granddaddy of them all,

17
00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,239
Speaker 2: the Big Game. No way, that's a super Bowl.

18
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 1: I don't think they call it the Big Game. Well,

19
00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,880
Speaker 1: it turns out, Chuck, that in World War Two, arguably

20
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:04,360
Speaker 1: one of the greatest spies, an amateur, no less, came

21
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,319
Speaker 1: out of Poland. It was a woman.

22
00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:08,960
Speaker 2: That's right.

23
00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:10,440
Speaker 1: Can you believe that?

24
00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:11,960
Speaker 2: I can.

25
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,600
Speaker 1: But that's the whole premise of this, Well that's not

26
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,200
Speaker 1: the whole premise of it, but that's a premise of

27
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,320
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, like get a load of this

28
00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,920
Speaker 1: this lady, what she did, and then when you add

29
00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,039
Speaker 1: it all up, you're like, oh my goodness, she really

30
00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,919
Speaker 1: was possibly the greatest spy and her biographer named Claire

31
00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,559
Speaker 1: Mully put it, she wrote a book called The Spy

32
00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,280
Speaker 1: Who Loved There's a colon in there somewhere. I think

33
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,520
Speaker 1: it's the Spy Colon who loved Me.

34
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,240
Speaker 2: No, no, But.

35
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 1: In her book The Spy Who Loves she describes this

36
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:45,000
Speaker 1: woman who will call Christine Granville for now more bond

37
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,760
Speaker 1: less bond girl. And I was like, you go.

38
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,280
Speaker 2: Girl, Oh that's a good descriptor yeah, I thought so,

39
00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,440
Speaker 2: too inappropriate. This is one of those where you know,

40
00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,400
Speaker 2: I'm always harping about, oh, this should be a movie,

41
00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,720
Speaker 2: this should be and it sounds like it is going

42
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,360
Speaker 2: to be a movie. And we'll get to that at

43
00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,320
Speaker 2: the end. But I do want to give a shout

44
00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 2: out we've been taking, or at least I have. I

45
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,800
Speaker 2: think you have too. More and more suggestions from listeners

46
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,000
Speaker 2: I found as the well seemingly it runs dryer that

47
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,520
Speaker 2: it's nice to get these ideas from people, the good ones, right.

48
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, we get plenty of good ideas a lot, Like

49
00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 1: every every day we get a few good ideas.

50
00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,920
Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, I would say so, And I'm

51
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:28,639
Speaker 2: going to keep a list of good ideas. And I

52
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 2: very kindly say thank you to the people whose ideas

53
00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,959
Speaker 2: aren't great. They're good ideas, but just maybe not for

54
00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,960
Speaker 2: the show. Sure you know what I'm saying that, No, no, no,

55
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,840
Speaker 2: I tell everybody thank you for the great idea. But

56
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,960
Speaker 2: I well, I guess that would be outing myself if

57
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,200
Speaker 2: I say what I told the people, these ideas I

58
00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,760
Speaker 2: really like. So I'm just going to keep that to myself.

59
00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 2: But this one came from Jen Spota in Seattle and

60
00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,160
Speaker 2: basically said, yeah, this is Christine Grantfles is close to

61
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,520
Speaker 2: her real life James Bond as you can get yep.

62
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,800
Speaker 2: And I will go on to say this is another

63
00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,360
Speaker 2: way of precursoring this episode. Jen says she was a

64
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,760
Speaker 2: spy for the British and World War Two and her

65
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,919
Speaker 2: stories are so insane they're almost unbelievable. But her story

66
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,720
Speaker 2: is not very well known, So Jen, this one's for you.

67
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's for everybody who's ever wanted to learn

68
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,040
Speaker 1: more about woman spies in World War Two.

69
00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,320
Speaker 2: Totally. Christine Granville was kind of an awesome BA.

70
00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,200
Speaker 1: Yes she really was. Her. Christine Granville was just a

71
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:38,480
Speaker 1: cover name. That's what she's fairly well known as because

72
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,400
Speaker 1: she kept that after the war, because she was so

73
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,640
Speaker 1: proud of what she'd accomplished with that name. But she

74
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:50,000
Speaker 1: was born in Poland to an aristocratic father and a

75
00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,680
Speaker 1: wealthy mother from a Jewish banking family. The father was

76
00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,240
Speaker 1: not wealthy, he was aristocratic, so you put the two

77
00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,280
Speaker 1: together and you have a suddenly very powerful family. And

78
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,160
Speaker 1: her birth name was Christina Scarbeck, which is a I

79
00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 1: mean Christine Granville. You can see Christina to Christine. The

80
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,240
Speaker 1: Granville throws me off a little bit from Scarback, but

81
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,960
Speaker 1: I guess that's the point of a new identity. You

82
00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,000
Speaker 1: don't exactly want to be like word, but this sounds

83
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,280
Speaker 1: a lot like Christina Scarbeck. Is that who you are?

84
00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? In different spellings. The americanized I guess Christina with

85
00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:27,320
Speaker 2: a ch, well, literally like Christian. And then the Polish

86
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,520
Speaker 2: version was k r y st y n a. And

87
00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:33,200
Speaker 2: if I may just read her full name, because it's

88
00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,280
Speaker 2: pretty great, her full given name was Maria Christina Janina Scarbeck.

89
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,440
Speaker 2: And I have to say her dad's name because there

90
00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,920
Speaker 2: are two men in the story with his first name,

91
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,359
Speaker 2: and I've never heard of it. His name is Jersey

92
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:48,120
Speaker 2: j e.

93
00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,360
Speaker 1: R z Y, so I looked it up and in

94
00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,200
Speaker 1: Polish it's like yert Z yerd ce okay, I figured,

95
00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,159
Speaker 1: and it's the Polish version of George.

96
00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 2: Oh okay, So no wonder it sounds a little more

97
00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:00,640
Speaker 2: common than I would think.

98
00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,239
Speaker 1: But it is a pretty pretty great name in the spelling.

99
00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,839
Speaker 1: And the fact that there's two Yertzy's in her life,

100
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,920
Speaker 1: very prominent ones. I think that's astounding too, that you

101
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 1: go from zero to two overnight. Basically, that's right.

102
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:20,440
Speaker 2: Her mom was a Goldfelder of the Jewish banking Goldfelder family,

103
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,920
Speaker 2: and that's where they got their money. But when Christine

104
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:27,800
Speaker 2: was growing up, you know, she was very privileged. But

105
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,440
Speaker 2: then eventually after World War One, the Goldfelder bank tanked

106
00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,719
Speaker 2: and the depression that followed, and her dad left the family,

107
00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,279
Speaker 2: died when she when Christina was in her early twenties,

108
00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,000
Speaker 2: and she ends up, you know, not having a lot

109
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,840
Speaker 2: of money, living in an apartment in Warsaw with her

110
00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:46,720
Speaker 2: brother and her mother.

111
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,440
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, her dad just abandoned the family when the

112
00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,480
Speaker 1: money ran out. It's pretty awful. Yeah, what a jersey

113
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:59,400
Speaker 1: she right, She ended up kind of living the high

114
00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,600
Speaker 1: life as best she could. She liked to go out

115
00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,240
Speaker 1: on the town. She was a runner up for Miss

116
00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,160
Speaker 1: Poland beauty contests. I saw that she used to hang

117
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,360
Speaker 1: out at a very chic ski resort and while there,

118
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,920
Speaker 1: this is a great, great example of the kind of

119
00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 1: how she could straddle multiple worlds. Like the people that

120
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,520
Speaker 1: she was there with were all very wealthy, you know,

121
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,560
Speaker 1: trust fund kids and like aristocratic kids. But while she

122
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,400
Speaker 1: was at the ski resort, she also connected with the

123
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,920
Speaker 1: criminals there and learned the smuggling routes and would go

124
00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,080
Speaker 1: into the foreign like neighboring countries to buy cheaper cigarettes

125
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,080
Speaker 1: and bring them back and sell them more expensively in Poland.

126
00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,479
Speaker 1: That's a great example. And this is what she was

127
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:42,840
Speaker 1: doing in her early twenties.

128
00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean she sounds like a few things, A

129
00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:52,360
Speaker 2: real firecracker, Yeah, someone who was eager for adventure and

130
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,320
Speaker 2: not one to just sort of go the expected route

131
00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,039
Speaker 2: of a young woman at the time in any way,

132
00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,679
Speaker 2: And the reason we mentioned this next part is because

133
00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,840
Speaker 2: it's very sort of prevalent thing for the story is

134
00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 2: she was very attractive and very charming and used her

135
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,559
Speaker 2: looks in her charm in her life as a spy

136
00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,160
Speaker 2: to great effect and also ended up as a result,

137
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,800
Speaker 2: having many many affairs, which was not the kind of

138
00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,120
Speaker 2: thing that you know, a woman of repute was to

139
00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 2: do back then.

140
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,240
Speaker 1: Right, she didn't care about that kind of thing.

141
00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 2: She did not. She was James bonding her way around

142
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:30,680
Speaker 2: Europe in a way.

143
00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw that. She was described as having a

144
00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 1: near pathological enjoyment of dangerous situations. Yeah, Like she was fearless.

145
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,360
Speaker 1: Not only that, she seemed to be attracted to fear

146
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,760
Speaker 1: so she married a couple of times. Her second husband,

147
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 1: Jerzy Gizeki, I'm pretty sure that's how it's pronounced. He

148
00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:56,240
Speaker 1: was a diplomat for Poland in Ethiopia. And while they

149
00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,720
Speaker 1: were moving to Ethiopia, or they had already moved in

150
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,200
Speaker 1: their traveling around South Africa, Germany invaded Poland. And one

151
00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,600
Speaker 1: of the things you have to know about Christina Scarbeck

152
00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 1: is she was incredibly patriotic. Like she was not happy

153
00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:16,160
Speaker 1: about Germany invading Poland at all, but she actually did

154
00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,720
Speaker 1: something about it. She figured out how to get a

155
00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:25,840
Speaker 1: meeting with the Secret Intelligence Services George Taylor, which became

156
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,720
Speaker 1: six the Spies in Britain. She got a meeting with

157
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,200
Speaker 1: him and said, Hey, I want to spy for you

158
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,920
Speaker 1: guys and work with the Polish Resistance. Let's make this happen.

159
00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's not the way things usually went. Usually

160
00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,320
Speaker 2: didn't go knocking on the door of six. First of all,

161
00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 2: you probably don't know where that door is, right, But

162
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,360
Speaker 2: if you happen to find out where that door is,

163
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 2: you don't go knocking on it and ask for a job.

164
00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,400
Speaker 2: You are generally found and recruited and asked to be

165
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,680
Speaker 2: to become a part of it. I have a feeling

166
00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,520
Speaker 2: this George Taylor guy was he was in a Australian

167
00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:07,680
Speaker 2: businessman turned saboteur, and I think maybe because he was

168
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,319
Speaker 2: a civilian who got involved, he might have had a

169
00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,120
Speaker 2: maybe a soft spot for this person who and again

170
00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,079
Speaker 2: attract him in charming that certainly didn't hurt, but maybe

171
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 2: had a soft spot for her, like being so eager

172
00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 2: to sign up as a civilian and would eventually he

173
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,520
Speaker 2: would eventually run what was known as the SOOE, the

174
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:34,359
Speaker 2: Special Operations Executive, which were civilians. They were volunteer civilians

175
00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:39,440
Speaker 2: that were saboteurs that they except for sounds like Christine Granville,

176
00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,000
Speaker 2: would recruit to work for them, and do you know,

177
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 2: sneaky spy missions during World War Two.

178
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,280
Speaker 1: Including sabotage and stuff. I saw. One example of what they.

179
00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,160
Speaker 2: Did was that's what a saboteur does.

180
00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:56,720
Speaker 1: The second the second Panzer Division were a real problem

181
00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,920
Speaker 1: in Europe for the Allies, and one of the mission

182
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,199
Speaker 1: the SOE carried out was to remove the axle grease

183
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,120
Speaker 1: from the trains that were transporting the Panzer Division and

184
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 1: their tanks and replace it with some sort of corrosive

185
00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,320
Speaker 1: abrasive oil. So just completely wreck the trains and set

186
00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,240
Speaker 1: them back for days. Yeah, not weeks. They did stuff

187
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,160
Speaker 1: like that, And again, these are just ordinary people from

188
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,400
Speaker 1: ordinary life who wanted to do something, and the fact

189
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 1: that they were ordinary people and could blend in made

190
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,280
Speaker 1: them intensely valuable to carry out sabotage missions behind enemy lines.

191
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. So she goes to Taylor. She's like, I

192
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,200
Speaker 2: have an idea. First of all, I want a job,

193
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,080
Speaker 2: And not only do I want a job, but I've

194
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,199
Speaker 2: got an idea for that job already of how I

195
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,000
Speaker 2: can just hit the ground running. I want to go

196
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,080
Speaker 2: to Hungary, which at the time was neutral in World

197
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,720
Speaker 2: War Two, and I can produce propaganda there. I'm an

198
00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,800
Speaker 2: excellent snow skier, so I can then skils the Tatra

199
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,000
Speaker 2: Mountain range, get into poland set up communications there with

200
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,719
Speaker 2: you guys, and I can get the whole network. I've

201
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,560
Speaker 2: got people that will you know, from the Polish resistance

202
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,080
Speaker 2: that will help me along, and I can. I can

203
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,880
Speaker 2: do this over and over to your heart's content. And

204
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,720
Speaker 2: this Australian guy said, well, it's gonna do an Australian accent,

205
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,480
Speaker 2: but I decided not to at the last minute. I

206
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:28,160
Speaker 2: don't know why I froz up. He said, sure, lady.

207
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:29,920
Speaker 1: That was a different choice.

208
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:31,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he signed her up.

209
00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,080
Speaker 1: He said, welcome on board. How about you do your

210
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:39,120
Speaker 1: Murray impression of him hiring her. Everybody says that.

211
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's new Zealander. I think Kidney, Yeah he is.

212
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,880
Speaker 1: But even in Australia they think it's awesome.

213
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,080
Speaker 2: Okay, he said, prison.

214
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:52,000
Speaker 1: So he hires her. But you can't, you know, at

215
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,760
Speaker 1: the time, be like a Sooe agent overtly. You have

216
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,040
Speaker 1: to have some sort of cover. And so she was

217
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:04,800
Speaker 1: officially hired as the first aid nursing yeomanry fanny person

218
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:06,840
Speaker 1: which had been around and for a while and it

219
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 1: was usually made up of wealthy women who donated their

220
00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,920
Speaker 1: own time, money, clothes, expenses, paid their own expenses to

221
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,960
Speaker 1: basically volunteer for World War One. That was carried over

222
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,960
Speaker 1: and it made a lot of sense because it also

223
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,160
Speaker 1: meant that those women were typically left alone. Not only

224
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,959
Speaker 1: were they women, there were women volunteers, and they were

225
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,280
Speaker 1: wealthy women volunteers, so he just didn't mess with them

226
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,760
Speaker 1: that much. So it was a really great cover for

227
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,800
Speaker 1: a woman who was an soe operative.

228
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was also commissioned as a flight officer for

229
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,920
Speaker 2: the British Women's Auxiliary Air Force. Again just another cover job,

230
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,640
Speaker 2: but they let her do that first plan. They were like,

231
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,120
Speaker 2: not only can you come aboard, but we think that

232
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,400
Speaker 2: sounds pretty good to us. She was successful. She got

233
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:57,360
Speaker 2: a Olympic skier, Polish Olympic skier and mountaineer named jan

234
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,880
Speaker 2: Maris Arts to help her along across the border. They

235
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 2: skied across this two thousand meter you know, set of Alps.

236
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 2: And apparently, as the story goes, and we should say

237
00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,000
Speaker 2: some of the stuff is completely verified, and some of

238
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,679
Speaker 2: this stuff are stories that were told that maybe you know,

239
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,200
Speaker 2: lathered up a little bit. Apparently she was known to

240
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,760
Speaker 2: sort of lather up her own stories, but they're still

241
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,000
Speaker 2: great stories. But as the story goes they skied by

242
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,720
Speaker 2: dead bodies of like frozen people to get into Allied territory.

243
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, this seems pretty believable to me. That people were

244
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,360
Speaker 1: trying to escape Poland and just froze to death on

245
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:35,760
Speaker 1: the way.

246
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,720
Speaker 2: To Hungary makes for a good movie scene.

247
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,559
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, they're really It really kind of soaks in

248
00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,320
Speaker 1: just what the Steaks are, what's at stake for their mission?

249
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:44,920
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?

250
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? And also I will say, if the makers of

251
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,720
Speaker 2: this movie are listening, cast Josh and I as frozen

252
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,880
Speaker 2: dead people, that'd be great. What an Easter egg that

253
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:56,240
Speaker 2: would be.

254
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,600
Speaker 1: That would be wonderful. I'd be sitting there trying not

255
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,600
Speaker 1: to smile. Frozen you want to take a break real quick.

256
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,160
Speaker 2: They could be like, look at him, he seemed happy

257
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:05,920
Speaker 2: when he'd be bad.

258
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,280
Speaker 1: Right, they say, it's a good way to go.

259
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's take a break and I'm going to work

260
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,000
Speaker 2: in my frozen that body. We'll be right back.

261
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,320
Speaker 1: So, Chuck, you were saying that the myths around Christine

262
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 1: Granville are questionable, but it's probably one of those things

263
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,640
Speaker 1: that there's some sort of kernel of truth to that. Sure, yeah, yeah,

264
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,720
Speaker 1: But one of the other things that makes her so

265
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 1: compelling is that some of them, it's tough to distinguish

266
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 1: the myth from the actual story, because ones that are

267
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,000
Speaker 1: documented are just as mind blowing as the ones that

268
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,040
Speaker 1: are Like, is that true? And then in a lot

269
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:12,000
Speaker 1: of cases, the story is true, but say, whoever the

270
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,880
Speaker 1: bad guy is in that story might be mixed up,

271
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:16,840
Speaker 1: and then maybe they're not quite as scary as the

272
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,600
Speaker 1: bad guy that got you know, inserted into the story

273
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,800
Speaker 1: later on, But the story's still true. And that was confusing.

274
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,840
Speaker 1: But later on, everybody, I'll point out the example I'm talking.

275
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,120
Speaker 2: About, okay, is that the one we're about to talk about.

276
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 1: No, it's a different one. The one we're about to

277
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,080
Speaker 1: talk about, I say, is the one where she was

278
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,520
Speaker 1: on a train smuggling documents.

279
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is during that same sort of mission

280
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,760
Speaker 2: that she had originally proposed. She ended up doing that

281
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,040
Speaker 2: like six or eight times, so it wasn't just a

282
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,680
Speaker 2: one off. She was just skiing back and forth all

283
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,400
Speaker 2: the time past Josh and Chuck, you know, didn't care

284
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,920
Speaker 2: about us. But at one point there was a train

285
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,120
Speaker 2: headed to Warsaw that she boarded. She saw that there

286
00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,840
Speaker 2: were arm guards, you know, you know, asking for papers

287
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,400
Speaker 2: and possessions, going through people's stuff, And so she turns

288
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,800
Speaker 2: on that charm and bats her eyes at a Gestapo

289
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,920
Speaker 2: officer and was like, here, would you mind holding this package?

290
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,480
Speaker 2: It's I shouldn't have it. It's black market tea. I'm

291
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,520
Speaker 2: trying to bring it to my mother, who really loves

292
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 2: this stuff. But you know, I don't want to get caught.

293
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,600
Speaker 2: And so he's like, sure, for all I know, I'll

294
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 2: hold that for you. But of course in that box

295
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,720
Speaker 2: were illegal documents that this guy was unknowingly hiding from

296
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 2: his Gestapo counterparts.

297
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean like he like that surely would have

298
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,520
Speaker 1: cost her her life had he opened the box. But

299
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 1: she was capable of charming even Gestapo agents, and that

300
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 1: was part of it too, Like it wasn't it wasn't

301
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 1: just the same type of charm for every person. That

302
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,320
Speaker 1: was like a catch all type of charm. She was

303
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,640
Speaker 1: also emotionally intelligent enough to be able to read individual

304
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,120
Speaker 1: people or even whole groups of people, to figure out

305
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,680
Speaker 1: what they what they wanted to hear, what would charm

306
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,800
Speaker 1: them the most. So she could be very you know,

307
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 1: rigid and command She could also be like flirtatious and

308
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,520
Speaker 1: helpless like whatever it called for. Yeah, she just could

309
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,879
Speaker 1: recognize what the best course of action was and it

310
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,119
Speaker 1: worked more often than not.

311
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,880
Speaker 2: For Yeah, she was really good at what she did.

312
00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,880
Speaker 2: Eventually she would get married. Well, she met a guy

313
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:18,879
Speaker 2: name on how would you pronounce that?

314
00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:19,639
Speaker 1: It's Andre?

315
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,439
Speaker 2: Oh, it is Andre Kowerski. Boy, I tell you what,

316
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,320
Speaker 2: Polish people have so many extra letters. I just celebrate

317
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,240
Speaker 2: that so much. I have Polish friends, and it's always

318
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 2: amazing to me to look at the amount of letters

319
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:33,679
Speaker 2: in those names.

320
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Andre is in this case is spelled A

321
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,639
Speaker 1: and d r ZJ and then zej. Really comes as

322
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,200
Speaker 1: a surprise at the end of us singler speakers.

323
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,480
Speaker 2: It really does. Anyway, great names. So she met this guy.

324
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,679
Speaker 2: He was a war hero, he was Polish, he had

325
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,879
Speaker 2: one leg. He was also a spy. And she was

326
00:17:53,920 --> 00:18:00,639
Speaker 2: still married to Kaziki. But nevertheless she started up relationship

327
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,119
Speaker 2: with Kowerski. It would be sort of a sort of

328
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,480
Speaker 2: a lifelong love on and off, even though again she

329
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,680
Speaker 2: would also have many other sort of short affairs and flings,

330
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,960
Speaker 2: some job related, some seemingly not.

331
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a very popular story about her that she

332
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,480
Speaker 1: had a really men would become obsessed with her, so

333
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 1: sometimes it was easier than others to get rid of guys.

334
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,880
Speaker 1: And in one case in Budapest, she had a knock

335
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 1: on her apartment door and a former suitor who she

336
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,439
Speaker 1: left behind was begging her to come back and threaten

337
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,600
Speaker 1: that if she didn't, he would shoot himself in his

338
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 1: genital organs.

339
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 2: That was a trick quote, yeah.

340
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,880
Speaker 1: And apparently he tried, but he missed and he ended

341
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:48,920
Speaker 1: up shooting himself in the foot. So he was quite

342
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 1: serious about that. And I just can't help but wonder

343
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 1: like what her response was that, Like, did she bring

344
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,440
Speaker 1: him in her apartment and help nurse them? Did she

345
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,920
Speaker 1: go get help, what did she do? Because I could

346
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 1: see her like taking care of the guy, but also

347
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 1: at the same time being like, this doesn't mean we're

348
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,800
Speaker 1: back together. I just, you know, don't want you to

349
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,960
Speaker 1: bleed to death from shooting yourself in the foot kind

350
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:09,280
Speaker 1: of thing.

351
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 2: It really depends on who plays him in the movie.

352
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:12,840
Speaker 1: The guy.

353
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, if he's a sad sack, she might be like,

354
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 2: get in here, what have you done to yourself? Like

355
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 2: you literally shot yourself in the foot?

356
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 1: Right.

357
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 2: If it's played by some creep, then you know she

358
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 2: shuts the door and says, hobble off.

359
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, good riddance to your.

360
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 2: Uh so to you know, her dad had split and

361
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 2: died at this point, but we did want to follow

362
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,959
Speaker 2: up about her mom. She was teaching at a secret

363
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,600
Speaker 2: school in German occupied territory, not a good place to

364
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 2: be because I don't think we mentioned that her family,

365
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,040
Speaker 2: although she did convert to Catholicism, I believe for marriage.

366
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,400
Speaker 2: She was Jewish and she was wealthy, and she wouldn't

367
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,560
Speaker 2: stop teaching at that school, so she would not leave

368
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 2: the country with her daughter, and she was eventually captured,

369
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 2: and everyone basically agrees that she was probably killed.

370
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 1: Yes, so both of her parents. I think her dad

371
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 1: already died in her twenties. I'm not sure if we

372
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 1: said that or not. So both of her parents are gone.

373
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 1: She has a younger brother, but for the most part,

374
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 1: she's just kind of free to live her life. Oh,

375
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 1: she has a husband back home, by the way, but

376
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: he's off doing his own thing for the Brits as

377
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 1: a secret agent too. And really, for all intents and purposes,

378
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:24,119
Speaker 1: she's common law married to Andre Kowarski. Despite having all

379
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 1: of these separate flings that she's carrying out for her

380
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 1: duties as a spy in the SOE.

381
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Kowarski was also a spy.

382
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. So her life is just dangerous from moment

383
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 1: to moment. So I'm sure she's just loving every second

384
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,120
Speaker 1: of it. And like you said, she just kept going

385
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 1: back and forth across the Polish Hungarian border, faring people

386
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 1: and weapons and money and info. And she was working

387
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 1: inside Poland with a group called the Musketeers, who will

388
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,120
Speaker 1: pose a problem for her later on because they were

389
00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: like a resistance group, like you know from the Top Secret. Yeah,

390
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. But they were French because of

391
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,959
Speaker 1: chuckle out mouse And where were the other ones? Uh?

392
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 2: I don't know. Okay, I'm know what you're talking about.

393
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 2: But they were the Musketeers, so of course they were French.

394
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 1: So no, they were Polish.

395
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 2: Oh you said they were French.

396
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: I'm saying in the movie Top Secret they were French.

397
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 2: Oh the Musketeers were Polish. I get what you mean.

398
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the upshot that was totally unnecessary, by the way,

399
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: But the upshot of it is that from the Musketeer

400
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: she managed to cement her reputation among the spies, both

401
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 1: professional and amateur working for Britain when she brought information

402
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: to the Brits that the Nazis were about to break

403
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 1: their non aggression, packed with the Russians and invade the

404
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 1: Soviet Union. And it turned out that they invaded on

405
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: the very day that her intel said that they would.

406
00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. But Winston Churchill himself called her out and said, hm,

407
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 2: she's my favorite spy, and everyone said, is that a thing?

408
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 2: Sure it is.

409
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: In fact, Chuck, Winston Churchill sounded exactly like Murray from

410
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 1: Flight of the Contest.

411
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 2: TOYI, this is a pretty good story, and a lot

412
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 2: of these are just little bits from her life of

413
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 2: course that make for you know, good stories and eventually

414
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 2: a good movie. But she was in January of nineteen

415
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 2: forty one, she had been arrested by Hungarian secret police

416
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 2: along with Kuwerski. You know, she's doing spying with him,

417
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 2: And after a couple of days of being interrogated, she

418
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 2: very clandestinely bites into her tongue enough that it starts

419
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 2: bleeding and she starts coughing up blood as if she

420
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,120
Speaker 2: has TB. And everyone freaks out because nobody wanted TB

421
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 2: and so they released them.

422
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: Great idea, Yeah, you know, I've been in possibly the

423
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: very rooms that she was being interrogated in in Budapest.

424
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: They turned some of those places into museums that you

425
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 1: can go and visit. Wow, this is where the secret

426
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: police like interrogated people. It's it's nuts and it's really

427
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 1: well done. No, I didn't, but it's like, really, I

428
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 1: can't remember the name of the museum. There can't be

429
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: too many of them, but Budapest has a few attractions

430
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: like that, or kind of dark tourist attractions that are

431
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: really worth visiting if you ever go.

432
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 2: I'll have to ask Himaly because she went to museums there,

433
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 2: I bet I bet that was one of them.

434
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: I'll bet it was. And now, but she also went

435
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 1: to the Hospital in the Rock, which was a literal

436
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: underground hospital built into a cave system that they preserved.

437
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 1: It's they have wax dummies like hanging out. That makes

438
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 1: it even cooler.

439
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: Do any of them look like us?

440
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: No? But one of them smiling inappropriately?

441
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 2: Okay, so all right. Eventually she and Korski are exposed

442
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 2: as spies, like their cover is blown, and they still

443
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 2: want to do their so they adopt new identities. This

444
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 2: is when she finally becomes Christine Granville. Korski became Andrew Kennedy,

445
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 2: which is kind of funny when you think about it.

446
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 2: And she, like you said, at the beginning, she was

447
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 2: Grandville from there on out, because that's sort of where

448
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 2: she became even more famous and wanted to hang on

449
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: to that name. And this is where her birthday gets

450
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: a little confusing, because she gave herself a different birthdate

451
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 2: obviously to assume this new identity, which made her probably

452
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,479
Speaker 2: like six to eight years younger, And so whenever there

453
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 2: are stories about her, there can be some confusion about

454
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 2: whether or not she was like in her early to

455
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: mid twenties or like mid thirties when a lot of

456
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 2: this is going on.

457
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she ended up bouncing off to Cairo to

458
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: spy on the Polish Intelligence Service. So get this for confusing.

459
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: Poland is occupied by Nazi Germany. Yeah, but the Polish

460
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 1: Intelligence Service still exists and is working against Nazi Germany.

461
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 1: And at the same time, the SOE in part is

462
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: has infiltrated Poland with Polish civilians working as operatives, and they,

463
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: as far as the Polish Intelligence Service is concerned, is

464
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: working against the Polish Intelligence Services. Interests and is making

465
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: life hard on them. So there was a rivalry between

466
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: SOE operatives in Poland and the Polish intelligence services that

467
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: ended up actually becoming problematic for Christine Granville because the

468
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: intelligence services basically denounced she and Kowerski as if not spies,

469
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: like double agents, then they were being manipulated by double

470
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: agents in the Musketeers. I told you the Musketeers would

471
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 1: become problematic for them. This is where that happened.

472
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think because the Musketeers were this freelance civilian

473
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 2: group and you know, maybe they had been infiltrated by

474
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: Axis spies. They at the very least were thought to

475
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 2: have been infiltrated, so they uh. And we mentioned that

476
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: that Jesseki, her her still husband, was also a spy.

477
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 2: He heard about what was going on. He seemed like

478
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: a pretty stand up guy because he heard about what

479
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 2: was going on to her and to now Andrew Kennedy

480
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 2: previously Kowerski, and he was like, you know what, I'm

481
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 2: not going to stand for this. I'm out of here,

482
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: And that was kind of a real stand up thing

483
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: to do. He resigned. Eventually, She said, you know, I

484
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 2: don't know if you're trying to like, get back together

485
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 2: with me, but I'm still with I'm still with this

486
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: guy Kowerski. So I appreciate what you did, but that's

487
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 2: not going to end.

488
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: He was like, oh I see, yeah, yeah, man, poor guy.

489
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: So that kind of settled that. I think he kind

490
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: of bows out of the story at this point.

491
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, But did they stay married.

492
00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: I don't know.

493
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 2: Olivia, who helped us with this, said their relationship dissolved,

494
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 2: but it already sounded fairly dissolved. I just don't know

495
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: if they were officially not married at that point.

496
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it would have mattered much practically speaking. No,

497
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: you're right, but she and Kowerski now Kennedy hung around

498
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: Cairo for the next year while the Brits investigated them

499
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: and whether they were actually spies or not. And the

500
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: Brits later on, so they were fully aware that they

501
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: weren't spies and that they were loyal and that there

502
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: was really no problem, but they were having to indulge

503
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: the Polish intelligence services because they needed the Polish intelligence services.

504
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: And yet it was the Brits who had gotten the

505
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: whole thing stirred up by commanding Kowerski not to report

506
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: to the Polish intelligence Services and only to report to them. Yeah,

507
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: so that's what brought the first animosity up between Kowerski

508
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: and then by association Granville with the Polish intelligence services,

509
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: who denounced them later as spies unfairly. But they got

510
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: cleared ultimately that investigation and they got back to work.

511
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, she got back to work in France. Actually, July

512
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 2: of nineteen forty four, she goes to France. Now she

513
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 2: is using the name Pauline armand she literally parachutes into

514
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: the south of France. She's going there to you know,

515
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: get get involved in the resistance there and start to

516
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: sort of help out, which eventually the American invasion. So

517
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 2: she sort of laying the groundwork of what was to

518
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: come for the United States involvement. She was, and this

519
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 2: guy ends up being pretty important. She was the second

520
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,719
Speaker 2: command to a guy named Frances How do you pronounce

521
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 2: that last.

522
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: Name, Freggie Camertz Camers cam Camers, Yeah, because the the

523
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: rts would would all be pronounced.

524
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: Okay, well that sounds about right. He led the SOEES

525
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: independent French. He was organizing sabotage, grill operations, saboteur missions,

526
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: stuff like that, and Livia also points out, in true

527
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 2: move fashion that when she was in France, she had

528
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: cinaide tablets and knives sewn into the hems of her skirt.

529
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the knife was strapped to her thigh,

530
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: but it was roundly described as razor sharpened. That she

531
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: carried it with her at all times. And yet she

532
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: so she knew her way around a knife. I guess

533
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: she didn't like guns very much. Her her weapon of choice,

534
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: get this chuck was grenades. Yeah, because she could take

535
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: out multiple people at once. So she's like, of course

536
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: I'm going to use grenades. So I mean, just one

537
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: more thing that It's like, wow, this this lady is

538
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: really astounding. Like her favorite weapon was grenades. That's not

539
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: the question. That's not the answer most people are expecting

540
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: when you're asked that question.

541
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: No, and that that grenades actually play a part in

542
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: one story that and this is one that you know,

543
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: could be a little gussied up because it's written differently

544
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: in different biographies. Again, would make for a great movie.

545
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: But she stopped at the Italian border. You know, they

546
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: say put your hands up, and she's got you know, grenades,

547
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: she you know, she holds up her arms and she's

548
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: got grenades and she said, I'm gonna blow you all up,

549
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 2: and the Germans run screaming in the movie.

550
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: Version, right, So this was the story I was referring

551
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: to earlier, where if you switch out the bad guys,

552
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: it's still an amazing story, but not quite as thrilling. Yeah,

553
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: So this was described the she was stopped by German officers,

554
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: and the German officers fled, So she scared off Nazis

555
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: with this bluff, or it might have even been a

556
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: bluff in reality. The other biography says these were Italian conscripts,

557
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: So these were soldiers who had basically been forced into soldiering,

558
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: who were patrolling the border, probably pretty low level soldiers

559
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: that you can imagine might run off a little faster

560
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: than maybe Nazi officers at the time. So that's what

561
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: I was talking about. The story's probably true, but you

562
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: just kind of add a little thing here and take

563
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: this person out there, and all of a sudden, it's

564
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: just eye popping.

565
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. At one point in another story, she was

566
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: carrying and this is this is cool kind of spycraft

567
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: stuff I never thought about. If you carry a paper

568
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: map and you're getting padded down that map might rustle

569
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 2: and crunch and make some noise, so they would carry

570
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: silk maps so they wouldn't make any noise. And she

571
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 2: got caught with one of these silk maps, but before

572
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 2: they could find it, she yanked off her silkhead scarf

573
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 2: and tied up her map into her head and spoke

574
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: perfect French. I don't think we mentioned, but of course

575
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: she spoke several languages right, perfectly, yeah, and impersonated a

576
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: local and apparently got out of there.

577
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: Funny enough, she spoke zero German.

578
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean she might not needed to if she

579
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: was pretending to be everything, but German.

580
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: She spoke German shepherd though, ah, god, this is the

581
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: best one.

582
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: I think. You go ahead, no, you know you all right,

583
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 2: there's one story where, you know, the Germans send in

584
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 2: the German shepherd to root them out, and I guess

585
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 2: they were in the bushes or something, and the German

586
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: shepherd finds her and she is able to charm this

587
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: German shepherd into just kind of laying down and getting scretches.

588
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: While the Germans are whistling for this dog to come back.

589
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: This German shepherd is like, no, this is my new.

590
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: Mama, right, the Germans are like Fritz here.

591
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd better be in the movie.

592
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: Oh, we would have to be.

593
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

594
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 1: But what would be great is if they use that

595
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: like nineteen fifties film trick where they just play the

596
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: dog standing up and reverse to make it laid.

597
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 2: Down a funny. It's sort of uncanny. It's like, wait,

598
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 2: what was it? What just happened?

599
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, someone was off with that.

600
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 2: Oh that's great.

601
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: So and I'm an extra in the background, and the

602
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: bushes just smiling like if it's hilarious.

603
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 2: They're like, wait, isn't that that polish?

604
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: Right? So, and you guys might be out there thinking, like, guys,

605
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: you're just sitting there rattling off story after Sorry, this

606
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: is essentially a timeline of what she went through. Like

607
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: everything we just said after she got to France happened

608
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: in France. Like that's how incredibly prolific she was. I

609
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: think this all would have happened in nineteen forty three,

610
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: nineteen forty four, I believe.

611
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

612
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: So, I mean, this stuff is happening to her on

613
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: like a daily basis, and I should say not happening

614
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: to her. She's going out and finding this kind of

615
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: thing and loving, loving, life right. And then finally, in

616
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: nineteen forty four, she undertook what became like her most

617
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: legendary mission. And it sounds like she kind of took

618
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,479
Speaker 1: it on herself, which is something you could do as

619
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: an Sooe agent to a large extent, as long as

620
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: you were screwing up the enemy, they were fine with

621
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: whatever you were doing. And then I guess it was

622
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: the next year, in August of nineteen forty four, she

623
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: undertook what was probably her most well known, most celebrated mission.

624
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: And from what I can tell, Chuck, she undertook it

625
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: on her own accord. She was not ordered to do this.

626
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: She just was like, I'm going to go do this.

627
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: Sounds like a great time for a cliffhanger. Okay, all right,

628
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: we'll be back with the rest of the story right

629
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: after this. All right, great cliffhanger, my friend. You really

630
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 2: know how to set them.

631
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: Up, thanks, sure, you know how to knock them down.

632
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 2: People say our show isn't scripted. That's a great line reading.

633
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: Actually we're the people that say that. So this was

634
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: August nineteen forty four, Camar, Is that how it's pronounced?

635
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 2: You said?

636
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: Why not?

637
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: All right? Kahmera and a couple of other French resistance

638
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: members were captured again by the Gestapo and they were

639
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 2: about to be put to death, and guess who steps

640
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: in to save the day.

641
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: I don't know.

642
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 2: Christine Granville. Oh take it away?

643
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: Oh okay. So she shows up at this I guess

644
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 1: a French prison that they were being interrogated at and

645
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,439
Speaker 1: we're about to be executed and said, hey, I am

646
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: the niece of General Bernard Montgomery who's on his way

647
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: with a whole bunch of allies that are about to

648
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: overtake this, and you, French collaborators, you're going to pay

649
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: a dear, dear price if you execute these men right

650
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: before they get here. They're going to take it out

651
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: on you and you're going to hate life. And apparently

652
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: they said, all right, we're properly scared, but can you

653
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: sweeten the pod a little bit? And she said, okay,

654
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 1: what about two million francs and they said sold. So

655
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: she handed off the bribe and they took off and

656
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: left these three really really important French resistance leaders to live.

657
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: She's saved their lives. And apparently after they left the prison,

658
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: they were like, I can't believe you just did that,

659
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: and she said it just kind of hit her finally,

660
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: like just how dangerous it was. It hadn't even occurred

661
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: to her that they might be like, no, we're not,

662
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: and you're captured now too, and we're going to exit

663
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: you as well. Because she was just so focused on

664
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: what she needed to do and going to do it

665
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: and knowing she could do it, it didn't even occur

666
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: to her that she was actually putting herself in incredible danger.

667
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was amazing. Apparently, she turned in her report,

668
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: typed it up, handed it in to the SOE and

669
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 2: their reaction was quote good reading. I'm going to make

670
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 2: sure that I keep on Christine's side in the future,

671
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 2: and another agent said, so am I she frightens me

672
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: to death. Very nice, Yeah, thank you.

673
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 1: So the Allies won the war spoiler alert, and especially

674
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: in Europe, i should say, and as a result, Granville

675
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: was awarded some pretty hefty awards. She actually wanted to

676
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: remember she's a civilian, a Polish civilian, and yet she

677
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: was given the honor of Officer of the Order of

678
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: the British Empire. If you get that medal, you are

679
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: a man British and at least a lieutenant colonel. She

680
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 1: was none of those things, and they still said, you

681
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: were so amazing on our you know, on our behalf,

682
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: we're going to give you that. And she also got

683
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: another one, the George Medal too.

684
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: Or the in Poland they would call it the years.

685
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: Here's the medal?

686
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: Wait, who is the other yearsy? Did we even find him?

687
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: Her second husband, the diplomat to come to Ethiopia was

688
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: that's right.

689
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 2: That's right, okay, and dad, all right, I just want

690
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 2: to make sure we cover that. What was that? The

691
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 2: French award? She went to the quad de Deger.

692
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: Yes, the Cross of Wars diitches, that's right.

693
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 2: So this all seems like, oh great, this is amazing,

694
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: I bet you. After the war, the British government really

695
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: took care of her and saw to it that she,

696
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: you know, had the best job in government. Not true.

697
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: They kind of turned their back on her in a

698
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: lot of ways. She tried to get citizenship and it

699
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: took her quite a few years to get it all

700
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,399
Speaker 2: the way until nineteen forty nine. They cut off her

701
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 2: financial support. They basically said, well, you know, what kind

702
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: of job can she get? A quote? She cannot type,

703
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 2: she has no experience whatever for office work and is

704
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: altogether not a very easy person to employ, which maybe

705
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: she wasn't the easiest person to employ in those regards,

706
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 2: but she was an exceptionally intelligent, crafty, resourceful human and

707
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 2: the fact that they couldn't find work for her is shameful.

708
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, so or wouldn't find work for her, wouldn't. I

709
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: think that's it because Churchill lost reelection shortly after the war,

710
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: and he was the protector of the SOE, and especially Granville,

711
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: who he cited was his favorite spy, which is a

712
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: big deal. Churchill loved the SOE. He instructed them to

713
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: set Europe ablaze, was his quote, but with him out

714
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: of power, they didn't have that cover from on high anymore.

715
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 1: And just like with the Polish Intelligence Service, the professional

716
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: intelligence people very much resented the amateurs, thinking that they

717
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: were doing the same work with the same quality as

718
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: the professionals. So they were. I don't think it was

719
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: just her specifically, but I think a lot of the

720
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 1: SOE was turned out, although I think some actually were

721
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: kind of broad aboard to be professionals, but she definitely wasn't. No.

722
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: So where did she work. She worked as a housekeeper,

723
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: She worked as a switchboard operator. She worked as a

724
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 2: cruise ship waitress. This is what her life was after that,

725
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 2: you know, exciting time of war, doing some of the

726
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 2: most dangerous things you could imagine, many of which upon

727
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: our own initiative. And she ends up working as a

728
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 2: housekeeper and a switchboard operator and other sort of all

729
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 2: her jobs. Eventually she would live in a house run

730
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 2: by the Polish Relief Society. There is another rumor, and

731
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 2: this is good stuff for the movie, but the character

732
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 2: of vesper Lynde and Casino Royale the Great James Bond

733
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: novel and films apparently was based on Grandville because she

734
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 2: reportedly had an affair with Ian Fleming, the author of

735
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: the James Bond novels.

736
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty neat, did you know. I think we talked

737
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: about it before. But Ian Fleming and Roald Dahl, the

738
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: guy who created Charlie Chocolate Factory, they were both spies

739
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 1: for the Brits in America.

740
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

741
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: I just find that endlessly fascinating.

742
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should do it episode on this stuff. It's good.

743
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 1: Okay. So Christine Granville actually had reached the point in

744
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: her forties where she was ready to settle down with

745
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: Cowerskey and was like, Okay, we're gonna be He's a

746
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: Kennedy after all, so right where it's gonna start. He

747
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: was deathly afraid of Wi Fi and she was like,

748
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: what's wi Fi? And He's like, just wait and see.

749
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: So she was ready to settle down, started a new normal,

750
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: everyday life. And she was visited at that Polish Relief

751
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: Society hotel or boarding house by a guy that she

752
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: had either had an affair with or had turned down,

753
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: who was a coworker on the cruise ship with her.

754
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: His name was Dennis Muldowney, and he stalked her and

755
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: approached her in the lobby of that boarding house and

756
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: stabbed her in the heart and killed her because he

757
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 1: was so obsessed with her. He said later that to

758
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: kill is the final possession, which is an awful sentiment,

759
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: and I mean, good God. And he also said that

760
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: he was still very much in love with her, so

761
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 1: he murdered her out of just jealous obsession, like if

762
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: he couldn't have her, no one could. And that's how

763
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: Christine Granville, after all the danger she put herself in,

764
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: after all the services she provided to the allies, the

765
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: good guys objectively, the good guys in World War Two.

766
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: She was murdered by a jealous jerk.

767
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in her what sort of early forties, still

768
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: a young woman, very very sad, yeah, by this crazy stalker. Kowarski,

769
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: for his part aka Kennedy, lived till nineteen eighty eight

770
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: and his ashes, at his request, were flown to London

771
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: to be interred alongside Grandville's. Kuwarski and we mentioned that

772
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 2: khmera guy was a good guy. Then three other guys

773
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 2: said who had been close with Granville. They formed the

774
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: panel to protect the memory of Christine Granville after her

775
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 2: death to you know, she had a life full of

776
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 2: you know, marital affairs and sexual encounters and things like that,

777
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 2: and they didn't want her story to be just sort

778
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 2: of scandalized I think after her death and for people

779
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 2: to focus in on that kind of thing. So they

780
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 2: actually blocked biographies successfully for a while for coming out,

781
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 2: blocked articles from coming out. Eventually, though, articles and biographies

782
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 2: would come out that would tell the full, sort of

783
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 2: proud story of her life and not in a scandalous way.

784
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 1: Right, And the whole thing kind of like tilted. The

785
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: world showed that it was ready for to appreciate Christine Granville.

786
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: When Claire Mully, the historian released the book The Spy

787
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 1: Who Loved colon the Secrets and Lives of Christine Granville,

788
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: that came out in twenty twelve, and it's like the

789
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: definitive biography on Granville, and it was extremely well received.

790
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: And Chuck, you can rest assured that there's a good

791
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: chance we will be frozen extras in the movie because

792
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: they are making at least one movie about it.

793
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, at one point Kate Winslet was attached to something.

794
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 2: Would have loved to have seen that, because Kate Winslet

795
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 2: is the best. But there's one called a Partisan that

796
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 2: supposedly is shooting now with Roman Planski's daughter, Uh Morgane

797
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: playing Grandville. Yep, who knew. I didn't know I had

798
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 2: a daughter.

799
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: I didn't know either, but that that adds up French

800
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 1: Polish actress. Sure. Yeah, Malcolm McDowell's in it too, And

801
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,720
Speaker 1: I don't. I can't, I just can't. I can't feel

802
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,240
Speaker 1: settled when he's on the screen.

803
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 2: Now, he's he's old. Who would he be playing?

804
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 1: Oh maybe Churchill?

805
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: M It's got to be Gary Oldman or somebody.

806
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: Right, Uh, you know, that's Andy McDowell's father, right, No, No,

807
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: I swear to God, that's Andy McDowell's father.

808
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 2: Malcolm mcdowells. Yes. I thought she was like from the

809
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 2: American South.

810
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: She is. She was born and raised in North Carolina.

811
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 1: But that is her father.

812
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 2: Wow, I had no idea. Yeah, I mean know Margaret

813
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: Qualley is his granddaughter.

814
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: Then I guess yes, and she's married to Jack Aaron Off.

815
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 2: No, Wade, Andy McDowell's.

816
00:44:54,360 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: Not, Yes, she is, Okay, Then she's Roddy McDowell's daughter. Okay, close, close,

817
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: both British, same last name. One was the regular, one

818
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 1: was the dude from Clock Reforms.

819
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 2: Well, now I feel like I don't have to check you,

820
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 2: but now I gotta look up Roddy McDowell.

821
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: No, that one, I'm sure of. Look it up.

822
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: Are you sure?

823
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 1: Yeah?

824
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 2: We'll wait, all right, Well say something else, like, you know,

825
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: why don't you read listener mail or something?

826
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: Oh? Well, how about this, I'll sit you up for

827
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: listener mail while you're looking, and you can tell us

828
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: on the other side of the chime whether I'm right

829
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: or not.

830
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 2: Okay.

831
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: If you want to know more about Christine Granville, you

832
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 1: can check out Claire Mully's book The Spy Who Loved

833
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: And there's plenty of other great stuff on the internet

834
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: to read about her too. And then look out for

835
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: me and Chuck in the movie. And since I said

836
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:42,919
Speaker 1: look out for me and check in the movie, it's

837
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:43,919
Speaker 1: time for listener mail.

838
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna call this, uh Roddy McDowell was

839
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 2: actually gay and never married?

840
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 1: Good lord? Okay, well, then let's let's reverse this course.

841
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: Who is Andy McDowell's father.

842
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I was going to say. That would

843
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 2: be the sensible thing to do. I do know Margaret

844
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 2: Qualley's her daughter.

845
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: I know that. No, that's definitely true. She was in Made.

846
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: Have you seen Made?

847
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: You know? I never saw that. It's on the list.

848
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,919
Speaker 1: It is really good. Andy McDowell, who I'm not usually

849
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: a huge fan of as an actress. I don't think

850
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: she's well used very very much as far as characters go.

851
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: She really nails it as Margaret Qualley's kind of like

852
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: ne'er do well mom who's still trying to be in

853
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: her life. It's just just a really great, kind of

854
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: gut wrenching movie.

855
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I can also recommend while we're here, the

856
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 2: movie Sanctuary. It was out last year with Margaret Qually

857
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: and who's the guy. I really like him a lot.

858
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 2: He was in Girls Christopher Abbott, of course, and it's

859
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: a sort of a two person movie and it's really

860
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 2: really good, highly recommended. And by the way, in case

861
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 2: she wondered, any McDowell's dad was a lumber executive from

862
00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: South Carolina.

863
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: Named Malcolm McDowell, who is also the actor.

864
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 2: Maryon the Saint Pierre McDowell. Boy, wow, that was a journey.

865
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: I've got another movie for you, since we're talking about movies.

866
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: I got two as a matter of fact. One my

867
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: niece Mela is in a movie that's out on the

868
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: big screen called The Hell. Yes, okay, it's called The Hill.

869
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 1: It's a super duper Christian movie, like legitimately, like they

870
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: call out Jesus Christ. But the Preacher's not like set

871
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,280
Speaker 1: up to be like a demonstration of hypocrisy. He's actually

872
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: like a preacher. Usually not my genre, but and I

873
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have seen it had my niece up in it.

874
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: But it is actually really good. And Dennis Quaid is

875
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: the father, the main character, and he does an excellent job.

876
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: And it's just a it's worth seeing. It's pretty uplifting,

877
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,439
Speaker 1: and Mila just knocks it out of the park as

878
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: the young version of the main dude's love interest.

879
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 2: Boy.

880
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: Mela is just killing yes, and that is so great.

881
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 2: You guys must be so.

882
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was so cool to go to the

883
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: like just a normal movie theater and get popcorn and

884
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: then see our niece up there on the big screen.

885
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 2: I love it. That is amazing.

886
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: The other one was The Black Hole, the Disney one

887
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy nine. I just had an itch to

888
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: watch it, and man, does it hold up?

889
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: You think so?

890
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: M hm? Okay, yep, it's even better than I remember

891
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: it as a kid. All right, Okay, sorry, was it? Chuck?

892
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call this ten year old request. We don't

893
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 2: usually read requests, but we like hearing from our young listeners,

894
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 2: and this is from Henry. Dear Josh and Chuck. My

895
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: name is Henry. I'm ten years old. Really love your

896
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 2: podcast and I listen to it every day on the

897
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 2: way to school. I'm writing in mainly because I think

898
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 2: you should make an episode about the psychology where if

899
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 2: you paint all the walls of a room black or

900
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 2: a different dark color. It makes the said room feel

901
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 2: much smaller. Now. I know I could just read an

902
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 2: article about this, but that would just be boring. Plus

903
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 2: I'd rather hear it from you, guys. So whatever time

904
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 2: of day you're reading this, farewell to you. I would

905
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 2: love to see that episode come out. Bye and that

906
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: is Henry and Henry. I think that would make a

907
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 2: great short stuff yeap. How color affects the perception of size.

908
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 2: I love it nice.

909
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Henry. We appreciate that. We appreciate your

910
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: charming character as well. Thank you for adding that to

911
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: the email. It could have been totally boring and straightforward

912
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 1: and you didn't do that, so thanks.

913
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 2: That's right, Go Henry.

914
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: If you want to be like Henry and have us

915
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: say go Henry, but with your name instead of Henry,

916
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: you can send us an email to Stuff podcast at

917
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio dot com.

918
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

919
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

920
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.