WEBVTT - The Variable Man with Gary Goldman and Angus Fletcher | Development Hell 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796 Pushkin. 0:00:23.556 --> 0:00:28.356 Welcome to episode two of Development Hell, our revisionist history 0:00:28.396 --> 0:00:31.876 series based on the radical notion of the best Hollywood 0:00:31.916 --> 0:00:34.676 stories are the ones that never got made into movies. 0:00:35.556 --> 0:00:37.756 Last time, we kicked out the series with the story 0:00:37.796 --> 0:00:39.796 of how my book Blink failed to make it under 0:00:39.796 --> 0:00:42.476 the big screen. If you haven't heard that one yet, 0:00:42.516 --> 0:00:46.636 you really really should, because it explains why failed stories 0:00:46.876 --> 0:00:55.076 have such meaning for me. Anyway, this episode is a 0:00:55.196 --> 0:00:58.876 wildly convoluted tale, full of big plot twists and huge 0:00:58.916 --> 0:01:03.396 moral questions, a story so much about right now that's 0:01:03.436 --> 0:01:10.396 going to get a little uncomfortable. Allow me to introduce 0:01:10.436 --> 0:01:14.356 guests Number one, Angus Fletcher. He's a screenwriter. 0:01:14.636 --> 0:01:18.116 I'm not a screenwriter, and I've never really wanted to 0:01:18.116 --> 0:01:20.156 be a screenwriter. Have no aptitude in screenwriting. 0:01:20.436 --> 0:01:23.996 Don't listen to Angus. Angus is in fact a screenwriter, 0:01:24.236 --> 0:01:28.076 as you'll hear, he's also an author, researcher, and professor 0:01:28.076 --> 0:01:32.476 of story science at Ohio State and a longtime friend 0:01:32.556 --> 0:01:36.236 of Revision's history. Some of you will remember him as 0:01:36.276 --> 0:01:39.676 the person who provided the intellectual scaffolding for our memorable 0:01:39.716 --> 0:01:44.436 revision of The Little Mermaid. Remember this so you think 0:01:44.476 --> 0:01:46.756 we should be able to we should fix Ursula. 0:01:47.716 --> 0:01:49.676 Well, I think we should just stop her from doing 0:01:49.676 --> 0:01:51.516 whatever she's doing. We should have a conversation with her 0:01:51.556 --> 0:01:52.996 about maybe why this isn't helpful. 0:01:53.476 --> 0:01:58.876 Do you, Prince Eric, take Ursula to have and to 0:01:59.036 --> 0:02:02.836 hold in sickness and in health for as long as 0:02:02.836 --> 0:02:03.996 you both shall live. 0:02:04.996 --> 0:02:08.596 Eric looks deep into Ursula's eyes, hypnotized. 0:02:08.636 --> 0:02:08.916 I do. 0:02:11.716 --> 0:02:15.916 If you haven't heard that Little Mermaid series, listen to it. Anyway, 0:02:16.396 --> 0:02:18.116 back to today's story. 0:02:17.996 --> 0:02:21.236 I'm just fascinated by this problem that Hollywood has, that 0:02:21.276 --> 0:02:22.796 it keeps selling the same story over and over and 0:02:22.836 --> 0:02:25.916 over again. And so you know, back when I was 0:02:25.956 --> 0:02:29.316 actually a Shakespeare professor up at Stanford, I placed this 0:02:29.356 --> 0:02:31.116 folk all the Pixar and I was basically like, how 0:02:31.196 --> 0:02:32.716 is it you guys who were able to make stuff 0:02:32.716 --> 0:02:35.116 that's like better? This is when they're making movies like 0:02:35.196 --> 0:02:39.316 Up which had just these totally berserk narrative structures. And 0:02:39.356 --> 0:02:41.076 so the anyway they let me inside, I learned all 0:02:41.076 --> 0:02:44.076 this stuff. I thought it was totally fascinating. I realized 0:02:44.076 --> 0:02:45.916 that they were making stories in a totally different way 0:02:45.916 --> 0:02:47.796 than Hollywood was. So I went down to Hollywood to 0:02:47.796 --> 0:02:52.076 advise Hollywood, and that led to me basically trying to 0:02:52.076 --> 0:02:54.996 convince Hollywood by writing a series of screenplays the Pixar way, 0:02:55.676 --> 0:02:57.076 because I thought that they would then allow me to 0:02:57.076 --> 0:02:59.116 consult on movies. Instead, No, they just hired me to 0:02:59.116 --> 0:03:02.076 write screenplays, and that's how I got an agent. And 0:03:02.076 --> 0:03:04.596 then one day my agent called me up and because 0:03:04.596 --> 0:03:06.796 he knew I'm just obsessed with the original Total Recall, 0:03:07.116 --> 0:03:10.196 which had destroyed my mind when I was young, and 0:03:10.316 --> 0:03:12.116 he was like, how would you like to work with 0:03:12.156 --> 0:03:14.396 the writer of Total Recall, Gary Goldman? 0:03:14.556 --> 0:03:18.196 And so that's how we got together. Gary. 0:03:18.196 --> 0:03:21.596 Wait, Gary, you wrote Total Recall. Meet Guests number two, 0:03:22.236 --> 0:03:26.876 Gary Goldman. He's also a screenwriter, but unlike Angus, has 0:03:26.916 --> 0:03:27.996 no trouble admitting it. 0:03:28.556 --> 0:03:30.956 Yes, I was the last writer on Total Recall. On 0:03:30.996 --> 0:03:32.396 the first Total Recall. 0:03:32.276 --> 0:03:37.996 Total Recall amazing movie, Arnold Schwarzenegger Sharon Stone, directed by 0:03:38.036 --> 0:03:38.796 Paul Verhoven. 0:03:39.036 --> 0:03:39.196 Yeah. 0:03:39.236 --> 0:03:41.476 So it was about a milk toast character who finds 0:03:41.516 --> 0:03:43.996 out that he's not who he thinks he is, which 0:03:44.036 --> 0:03:45.876 is that he's a kind of a super spy. 0:03:45.996 --> 0:03:46.596 But how real? 0:03:46.636 --> 0:03:47.356 Does it seem? 0:03:47.556 --> 0:03:50.596 As real as any memory in your head? Come on, 0:03:50.876 --> 0:03:51.756 don't bullshit me. 0:03:51.996 --> 0:03:54.036 No, I'm telling you, Doug, your brain will not know 0:03:54.156 --> 0:03:56.436 the difference, and that's guaranteed or your money back. 0:03:56.996 --> 0:04:00.116 What about the guy you lobottomized? Did he get the refund? 0:04:00.476 --> 0:04:04.316 Came out in nineteen ninety blockbuster tons of awards total 0:04:04.356 --> 0:04:06.916 recall has a number of It has a genealogy. It's 0:04:06.956 --> 0:04:09.396 not just to me. I mean, it has a short story. 0:04:09.436 --> 0:04:11.756 The source material is from Philip K. 0:04:11.876 --> 0:04:17.076 Dick. And then there was a fantastic original screenplay by 0:04:17.156 --> 0:04:21.556 Dan O'Bannon and Ron Schussette that everybody loved from the beginning, 0:04:21.916 --> 0:04:25.236 and this launched the project. In fact, this is sort 0:04:25.236 --> 0:04:29.676 of the prime example of this idea of development hell, 0:04:30.076 --> 0:04:32.756 which is that you sell something for a lot of 0:04:32.796 --> 0:04:35.756 money and everybody's very excited about it, and they tell 0:04:35.796 --> 0:04:39.276 you it's going to be a movie right away, and 0:04:39.316 --> 0:04:44.796 then it goes into a process of development where everybody 0:04:44.876 --> 0:04:50.116 has a hand in revising it and reconceptualizing it and 0:04:50.156 --> 0:04:53.276 making it in their image and in the middle. Depending 0:04:53.276 --> 0:04:56.796 on your involvement, you can be in development hell along 0:04:56.836 --> 0:05:00.636 with the project, or you can be a bystander pushed 0:05:00.636 --> 0:05:03.196 to the outside watching it go through the process of 0:05:03.236 --> 0:05:06.196 development Hell with lots of other people, not including yourself. 0:05:06.996 --> 0:05:09.036 I mean, if you're lucky it gets made at all. 0:05:09.236 --> 0:05:11.116 The project had been in development for almost eight or 0:05:11.196 --> 0:05:12.596 nine years when I got involved. 0:05:12.676 --> 0:05:16.116 Yeah, eight or nine years. Yes, So if you go 0:05:16.276 --> 0:05:20.396 back to the original screenplay, do you think that's a 0:05:20.436 --> 0:05:23.996 better movie than the final screenplay? 0:05:24.836 --> 0:05:25.036 No? 0:05:25.076 --> 0:05:25.756 Not in my case. 0:05:28.356 --> 0:05:30.556 So you're saying development hell is a bad thing. Accept 0:05:30.676 --> 0:05:33.796 in the case where I'm involved in convicings, which, by 0:05:33.796 --> 0:05:37.076 the way, a legitimate position that I would write, I'm 0:05:37.116 --> 0:05:38.716 totally open to agree with that. 0:05:39.596 --> 0:05:41.396 I mean, when I was starting out, I read the 0:05:41.436 --> 0:05:45.316 original Total Recalled screenplay as a junior executor for a 0:05:45.356 --> 0:05:49.836 producer who was considering making it and acquiring it. And 0:05:49.916 --> 0:05:52.156 basically the problem that most people felt was that it 0:05:52.236 --> 0:05:59.676 fell apart in the third act. So and this apparently, 0:05:59.676 --> 0:06:04.036 it fell apart so disastrously that even though it had 0:06:04.076 --> 0:06:06.756 many different stars and directors attached and people always wanted 0:06:06.756 --> 0:06:09.796 to make it, it didn't cross the finish line. And 0:06:09.876 --> 0:06:11.356 by the time it got to me it was eight 0:06:11.436 --> 0:06:14.236 or nine years later. It had been in pre production 0:06:14.876 --> 0:06:22.276 with Bruce Beresford and Patrick Swayzee and the producer Dino 0:06:22.356 --> 0:06:27.396 Dilarentis in Australia, and in fact, Bruce Beresford asked me 0:06:27.476 --> 0:06:30.716 to come over and do a rewrite on it, and 0:06:30.716 --> 0:06:32.316 I said I couldn't because I was working with Paul 0:06:32.396 --> 0:06:36.796 Verhovean on another project. But Dino went bankrupt. Arnold Schwarzenegger 0:06:36.836 --> 0:06:39.276 had always loved the project and had been watching it. 0:06:39.956 --> 0:06:43.876 He went the owners of the Carolco studio that had 0:06:43.916 --> 0:06:47.396 done the Rambo movies and he said, you know, I 0:06:47.436 --> 0:06:50.196 want to do this, and they bought it from Dio 0:06:50.276 --> 0:06:54.076 Dilarentis out of bankruptcy for a humongous amount of money 0:06:55.436 --> 0:06:57.836 and with the idea that Arnold was attached. Arnold wanted 0:06:57.836 --> 0:07:00.636 to work with Paul Verhoven because Paul had just done 0:07:00.716 --> 0:07:03.916 RoboCop and I was working with Paul Verhovean on a 0:07:03.956 --> 0:07:08.756 movie called about Out of Body Travel, and Paul said 0:07:08.796 --> 0:07:11.276 he didn't think it was ready to shoot and that 0:07:11.396 --> 0:07:13.236 he was going to leave our project and go do 0:07:13.356 --> 0:07:15.476 another project, and he was apologizing to me for that. 0:07:15.996 --> 0:07:18.236 I said, what's the other project and he said Total Recall. 0:07:18.476 --> 0:07:20.236 I said, well, that's really funny, Paul, because I turned 0:07:20.276 --> 0:07:23.236 down totally the chance to rewrite Total Recall because I 0:07:23.276 --> 0:07:25.836 was working with you, and he said, well, what did 0:07:25.876 --> 0:07:28.156 you think about it? And I told him my take 0:07:28.236 --> 0:07:29.716 and he said, well, you know, that's pretty much how 0:07:29.716 --> 0:07:31.156 I see it too. Let me let me see if 0:07:31.196 --> 0:07:32.516 I can get you the job to rewrite it. 0:07:32.476 --> 0:07:35.996 Gary, Gary, Gary got worried. We want to talk with 0:07:36.116 --> 0:07:38.076 his other project. But now I'm thinking we can come 0:07:38.116 --> 0:07:40.676 back to total recall or is this all leading up 0:07:40.676 --> 0:07:44.236 to the other project. Well, they're connected, yeah, So what's 0:07:44.236 --> 0:07:47.476 the connection? The connection is I would say Philip K. Dick, 0:07:48.436 --> 0:07:52.316 Philip K. Dick, sci Fi Master. To name just a 0:07:52.356 --> 0:07:58.716 few other Philip K. Dick film adaptations, Blade Runner, Minority Report, Scanner, Darkly, 0:07:59.236 --> 0:08:01.956 Philip K. Dick is probably the most important sci fi 0:08:01.996 --> 0:08:05.436 writer ever, or at least of the last hundred years. 0:08:06.356 --> 0:08:09.516 After working on Minority Report, Gary was becoming a bit 0:08:09.516 --> 0:08:12.596 of a Philip K. Dick specialist, which is not a 0:08:12.596 --> 0:08:14.596 bad thing to be in a town that loves sci 0:08:14.636 --> 0:08:19.996 fi adaptations. When we get back, Gary and Angus go 0:08:20.116 --> 0:08:35.396 to work on adapting another of his stories. We're back 0:08:35.556 --> 0:08:38.436 with Angus Fletcher and Gary Goldman, who've just been set 0:08:38.516 --> 0:08:41.796 up to work together on an adaptation of a Philip K. 0:08:41.956 --> 0:08:45.876 Dick story. I've done four projects based on Philip K. 0:08:45.996 --> 0:08:50.556 Dick material. This would become my calling card in Hollywood 0:08:50.596 --> 0:08:52.796 was that I did Philip K. Dick adaptations. 0:08:53.236 --> 0:08:58.236 So, Angus, wait, did you have a particular affection for 0:08:58.276 --> 0:09:00.676 Philip K. Dick prior to this project? 0:09:00.996 --> 0:09:03.396 Well, I mean I loved the movie Total Reco And 0:09:03.436 --> 0:09:06.036 I'm going to acknowledge that I was such a philistine 0:09:06.076 --> 0:09:07.596 that I had no idea that it came from Philip K. 0:09:07.636 --> 0:09:07.876 Dick. 0:09:08.476 --> 0:09:10.516 And happened was the moment I got the call from 0:09:10.516 --> 0:09:13.396 my agent. I then went and read all of Philip K. 0:09:13.556 --> 0:09:19.076 Dick and it's surreal. I mean, he sort of went 0:09:19.116 --> 0:09:23.716 from science fiction into religion. And I called Gary up 0:09:23.756 --> 0:09:25.076 and I was like, well, Gary, I was like, what 0:09:25.116 --> 0:09:25.996 do you think you know? 0:09:26.596 --> 0:09:27.956 I'd love to work with you. And the main reason 0:09:27.996 --> 0:09:29.716 I wanted to work with Gary is. 0:09:29.676 --> 0:09:33.036 Because I believe that screenwriters had the ability to see 0:09:33.036 --> 0:09:35.516 the future, because I think this is a common power 0:09:35.556 --> 0:09:40.636 of story. I think that science fiction is always about 0:09:40.796 --> 0:09:44.436 intuiting what's going to happen next. And so I said 0:09:44.476 --> 0:09:46.996 to Gary, I said, Gary, what do you think the 0:09:47.036 --> 0:09:50.276 future is? And he said, Angus, read this story, variable 0:09:50.316 --> 0:09:53.196 man and the premise of Variable Man's very simple. It's 0:09:53.196 --> 0:09:54.836 basically just about a future in which there are these 0:09:54.876 --> 0:09:58.836 computers who used this histics to predict everything's going to happen. 0:10:00.436 --> 0:10:02.316 And I said, you know, Gary, this seems weirdly like 0:10:02.356 --> 0:10:04.036 the world we're accelerating it to now. 0:10:04.556 --> 0:10:08.076 And he said, yeah, he said it is. And he said, and. 0:10:08.076 --> 0:10:10.236 I have a premise or a story that I'd like 0:10:10.276 --> 0:10:12.076 to pitch to you that I think will kind of 0:10:12.076 --> 0:10:13.996 be as big, if not bigger, than total recall. 0:10:14.076 --> 0:10:16.796 And that's where we got started, was with his pitch 0:10:16.876 --> 0:10:21.316 to me. And is the So the Variable Man's Story 0:10:22.356 --> 0:10:27.196 was written when, Oh, I don't know about nineteen fifty, probably. 0:10:26.836 --> 0:10:29.716 Oh I see, Oh it really so. Imagining in nineteen 0:10:29.756 --> 0:10:32.916 fifty a world in which computers predict everything is kind 0:10:32.916 --> 0:10:35.756 of great if you're in the twenty When when did 0:10:35.796 --> 0:10:38.316 you guys, When did you guys work together on this project? 0:10:38.356 --> 0:10:40.916 What was the early two thousand, early two thousands? So 0:10:40.996 --> 0:10:44.596 you have and so were you were you being faithful 0:10:44.636 --> 0:10:47.436 to the Philip K. Dick short story or were you 0:10:47.676 --> 0:10:49.396 were you changing it in useful ways? 0:10:49.596 --> 0:10:52.356 We were changing it in useful ways. And there a 0:10:52.436 --> 0:10:54.956 couple a couple of big things. So, first of all, 0:10:55.636 --> 0:10:58.196 Gary's pitch to me was he was like, imagine a 0:10:58.276 --> 0:11:03.036 future in which computers don't just predict things like they 0:11:03.076 --> 0:11:03.716 do in the Philip K. 0:11:03.796 --> 0:11:05.196 Dick story, which is who wins this war? 0:11:05.476 --> 0:11:07.036 But he says, you know, imagine that they're able to 0:11:07.076 --> 0:11:08.916 predict exactly. 0:11:08.516 --> 0:11:10.836 What food you'd like to eat right now. And then 0:11:10.876 --> 0:11:12.556 he said, and then imagine. 0:11:12.156 --> 0:11:15.396 That they're able to predict a gift that you can 0:11:15.436 --> 0:11:18.156 give to your best friend for their birthday. And that 0:11:18.196 --> 0:11:20.836 gift is so good that your friend not only loves it, 0:11:20.876 --> 0:11:24.996 but it seems perfectly like it came from you. And 0:11:25.036 --> 0:11:27.756 then he said, imagine the computers can pick your soulmate. 0:11:28.716 --> 0:11:32.116 Imagine the computers can pick the person that you love 0:11:32.276 --> 0:11:36.836 so totally and so absolutely that you know that. 0:11:36.836 --> 0:11:40.596 This computer knows you better than yourself. And I said, 0:11:40.636 --> 0:11:41.036 all right. 0:11:41.356 --> 0:11:44.076 And then he said, and now imagine, after you've given 0:11:44.116 --> 0:11:46.836 yourself up totally these computers, you wake up one morning 0:11:47.196 --> 0:11:49.356 and they say to you, in twenty four hours, the 0:11:49.476 --> 0:11:52.316 world is going to end because humanity is going to 0:11:52.316 --> 0:11:57.596 destroy itself. And I've crunched all the variables and there's 0:11:57.676 --> 0:12:01.436 no opportunity for you to do anything. That's the starting 0:12:01.476 --> 0:12:02.276 point for the story. 0:12:02.596 --> 0:12:05.596 Oh my god, So wait, how far have we traveled? 0:12:06.676 --> 0:12:08.956 We've traveled quite significantly from Philip K. Dick At this 0:12:09.676 --> 0:12:11.996 he was just imagining a world where there were these 0:12:12.036 --> 0:12:15.116 computers that were predicting the outcome of a war, and 0:12:15.156 --> 0:12:19.396 the computer's run across a problem. That's basically the plot, 0:12:19.476 --> 0:12:20.396 well right. 0:12:20.876 --> 0:12:24.156 The title variable Man. Because the other thing that Philip K. 0:12:24.236 --> 0:12:26.556 Dick did, which he intuited I think at a moment 0:12:26.596 --> 0:12:29.716 of genius, was what would happen if you put a 0:12:29.836 --> 0:12:34.156 person who the computers had no information on into the 0:12:34.196 --> 0:12:36.996 middle of the statistical world. So these are all these 0:12:36.996 --> 0:12:39.396 computers that are able to see the future because they 0:12:39.436 --> 0:12:41.636 have all the data, but there's one person who they 0:12:41.676 --> 0:12:44.956 have no data on. And so the starting point for 0:12:45.036 --> 0:12:47.956 the screenplay that Carried and I did was humanity goes, 0:12:48.036 --> 0:12:50.156 oh my goodness, we're going to die tomorrow. Our only 0:12:50.196 --> 0:12:53.156 option is to bring in someone who the computer has 0:12:53.196 --> 0:12:58.476 no data on, the variable man, the person who is unpredictable, unknown. 0:12:58.756 --> 0:13:00.356 And so, just like in the original Philip K. 0:13:00.436 --> 0:13:04.436 Dick's story, we reached back into time, back into history 0:13:04.716 --> 0:13:08.996 before the computers and pluck this person into the present. 0:13:09.236 --> 0:13:11.876 And that's basically the beginning of the screenplay is when 0:13:11.876 --> 0:13:14.276 the variable man arrives in this world where everything has 0:13:14.316 --> 0:13:16.956 been planned, everything has been predetermined, the computers know everything. 0:13:17.396 --> 0:13:18.196 We're all going to die. 0:13:18.516 --> 0:13:23.356 Yeah, now the way with so many, so many wonderful uh, Gary, 0:13:23.556 --> 0:13:27.196 tell me a little bit about your thought process in 0:13:27.356 --> 0:13:31.636 moving from the original Philip K. Dick notion to the 0:13:31.636 --> 0:13:35.156 one that Anglish has described. Tell me about the leaps 0:13:35.156 --> 0:13:38.356 that you made there and why you made them? 0:13:38.756 --> 0:13:45.196 All Right, So, I suppose I was very interested in AI. 0:13:46.036 --> 0:13:47.996 You know, everyone's thinking about it now, but it wasn't 0:13:48.036 --> 0:13:52.556 brand new. And I saw this idea that that of 0:13:52.596 --> 0:13:54.836 the computer that can predict everything, and that you have 0:13:54.876 --> 0:14:00.316 to give up control to the computer because it's it's 0:14:00.356 --> 0:14:04.276 working so fast, uh, And I wanted to sort of 0:14:05.036 --> 0:14:11.116 imagine this sort of trajectory of of going from where 0:14:11.116 --> 0:14:14.236 we are now to the point where the computer is 0:14:14.276 --> 0:14:19.156 in total control. And I was really and I remain 0:14:19.276 --> 0:14:24.116 concerned about this question of decision making and how do 0:14:24.156 --> 0:14:26.836 we make decisions? And if the computer can make better 0:14:26.876 --> 0:14:31.436 decisions than we do, then what is the role of 0:14:31.476 --> 0:14:36.356 free will? And if you spend a whole life just 0:14:36.396 --> 0:14:38.796 simply doing what the computer tells you to do. What 0:14:38.916 --> 0:14:42.876 is identity. So I wanted to put this hero who 0:14:42.916 --> 0:14:45.676 comes from the past and who still is accustomed to 0:14:45.716 --> 0:14:48.316 having free will and his power is to have free will, 0:14:48.996 --> 0:14:53.156 and to put it in the situation where whenever he 0:14:53.236 --> 0:14:56.316 listens to the computer, everything goes right, and whenever he 0:14:56.356 --> 0:14:57.996 trusts his own judgment, it's wrong. 0:14:58.276 --> 0:15:01.956 Oh wait, wait, wait, so the AI, the AI is 0:15:01.956 --> 0:15:04.316 smart enough to realize that the only way to save 0:15:04.396 --> 0:15:08.556 the world is to bring someone in from outside AI. Yeah, oh, 0:15:08.556 --> 0:15:11.276 the AI a little bit of self knowledge and humility 0:15:11.436 --> 0:15:12.036 in your world. 0:15:12.076 --> 0:15:14.316 Oh yeah, that was one of our best things. We 0:15:14.396 --> 0:15:17.996 created this wonderful AI, a wonderful character called We named 0:15:18.076 --> 0:15:21.596 him Plato, and uh, he's you know, he's sort of 0:15:21.596 --> 0:15:23.356 somewhere We're going to Butler and God. 0:15:23.716 --> 0:15:27.676 Yeah, that's that's this is this is getting better and better. 0:15:27.756 --> 0:15:30.116 I was gonna chime in there and uh and just 0:15:30.276 --> 0:15:33.196 and just say that basically, in this society, there are 0:15:33.236 --> 0:15:34.876 a few people that have tuned out and they're like, 0:15:34.956 --> 0:15:36.076 I'm not going to listen to this computer. 0:15:36.076 --> 0:15:36.996 Where does this computer know? 0:15:37.556 --> 0:15:40.876 And their lives are horrible and all their decisions are bad, 0:15:41.316 --> 0:15:44.436 and they decide to choose their own soulmates, and they 0:15:44.476 --> 0:15:45.716 have horrible marriages. 0:15:46.116 --> 0:15:46.996 And then everyone who. 0:15:46.956 --> 0:15:50.356 Listens to exactly what the computer says has this Instagram 0:15:50.396 --> 0:15:53.596 life where they are actually so happy and their kids 0:15:53.636 --> 0:15:55.876 are so perfect and everything is so amazing. 0:15:56.356 --> 0:15:58.436 And so, you know, Cole comes into this world. Our 0:15:58.476 --> 0:15:59.876 hero comes into this world. 0:15:59.996 --> 0:16:03.316 And he of course finds an appalling and as as 0:16:03.316 --> 0:16:05.676 appalling as we would find it, and he's determined to 0:16:05.716 --> 0:16:08.676 ignore Plato. He's determined to ignore the AI that has 0:16:08.716 --> 0:16:11.956 brought into the future to save humanity from itself. So 0:16:12.036 --> 0:16:15.076 this is another kind of unfolding paradox is humanity doesn't 0:16:15.116 --> 0:16:17.516 want to save itself. It means listening to the computers 0:16:17.636 --> 0:16:18.716 on how to save itself. 0:16:19.356 --> 0:16:20.836 Wait, wait, so many questions. 0:16:21.036 --> 0:16:22.796 First of all, tell me a little bit about so 0:16:23.596 --> 0:16:26.956 our variable man is called as in the Philip K. 0:16:27.036 --> 0:16:30.116 Dick story, your veryble man is called coal. Tell me 0:16:30.156 --> 0:16:34.636 about your coal? And where does he come from? What's 0:16:34.636 --> 0:16:35.476 his personality? 0:16:35.636 --> 0:16:35.716 Like? 0:16:35.836 --> 0:16:38.316 Why is he? Why is he the way? Why is 0:16:38.356 --> 0:16:43.196 he so capable of standing up to AI even if 0:16:43.236 --> 0:16:45.196 AI has all these demonistrable advantages. 0:16:46.676 --> 0:16:49.476 So basically he's just a classic action hero. 0:16:49.876 --> 0:16:53.556 The idea is he embodies kind of our cowboy American 0:16:53.756 --> 0:16:58.756 trust in our guts. And so the opening sequence, he's 0:16:58.756 --> 0:17:03.156 sent in to stop this hacker, this hacker who's been 0:17:03.196 --> 0:17:06.476 creating chaos across the world, who's been sort of, you know, 0:17:06.556 --> 0:17:09.436 getting into all these top secret facilities and creating we 0:17:09.436 --> 0:17:11.436 think he's gonna launch world War three whatever. 0:17:11.476 --> 0:17:14.156 And so Cole goes in and he's being sort of 0:17:14.156 --> 0:17:14.836 instructed what. 0:17:14.836 --> 0:17:16.836 To do, and we already had these computers at this 0:17:16.916 --> 0:17:18.876 time that are sort of running the percentages and telling 0:17:18.956 --> 0:17:20.996 him do this, do this, do this, do this other thing, 0:17:21.676 --> 0:17:23.756 and he's listening to the computers. 0:17:23.796 --> 0:17:24.516 He's breaking in. 0:17:24.596 --> 0:17:27.156 He finally gets to the heart of the layer where 0:17:27.836 --> 0:17:31.036 this hacker is, and he kicks down the door and 0:17:31.076 --> 0:17:34.236 he points his gun and then the hacker turns around 0:17:34.956 --> 0:17:39.956 and it's a child, and Cole realizes, oh, my goodness, 0:17:40.356 --> 0:17:42.396 this is the hacker. This is the person who's been 0:17:42.396 --> 0:17:45.636 creating all this chaos. And he gets this word on 0:17:45.676 --> 0:17:49.156 his earpiece, kill the hacker, and he says, I can't 0:17:49.196 --> 0:17:49.716 kill the hacker. 0:17:49.716 --> 0:17:50.396 This is a child. 0:17:50.796 --> 0:17:53.196 And there's this long pause and they say, look, we've 0:17:53.236 --> 0:17:57.076 run all the numbers. If you don't kill the kid. 0:17:57.836 --> 0:18:01.556 This is going to happen again. Pull the trigger and 0:18:02.436 --> 0:18:04.396 he stands there in the moment. Can I pull the trigger? 0:18:04.436 --> 0:18:06.276 Can I pull the sugar? And then he doesn't do it. 0:18:06.276 --> 0:18:07.796 He doesn't pull the trigger, He drops the gun, he 0:18:07.796 --> 0:18:10.956 grabs a kid, and what essentially happens is he dies 0:18:11.356 --> 0:18:14.676 saving the kid's life. There's a fireball that blows him up, 0:18:14.916 --> 0:18:16.596 but the kid goes on and the kid lives. 0:18:16.876 --> 0:18:19.516 And because that fireball incinerates him. 0:18:20.116 --> 0:18:22.756 He can be brought into the future without changing time 0:18:23.796 --> 0:18:26.676 because he was essentially eliminated from the timeline. So if 0:18:26.716 --> 0:18:29.436 you reach into the exact moment just before he dies 0:18:29.836 --> 0:18:32.756 and pull him into the future, time isn't changed. And 0:18:32.796 --> 0:18:35.196 so he's the perfect person to bring back because he 0:18:35.196 --> 0:18:37.796 has demonstrated the ability to say no to the computers, 0:18:38.316 --> 0:18:42.116 and also because taking him doesn't change time. 0:18:42.916 --> 0:18:44.676 Oh I see so in the Fruit, when we meet 0:18:44.756 --> 0:18:49.636 Cole's he's part of the present, he's not. He's He's 0:18:49.636 --> 0:18:52.076 just a guy who's standing up to the tyranny of AI. 0:18:52.596 --> 0:18:55.556 Here's an action hero who's AI has been corrupted by 0:18:55.596 --> 0:18:59.276 this hacker. He's started to solve the problem. He fails 0:18:59.316 --> 0:19:02.836 as an incident. How much time passes between that initial 0:19:02.916 --> 0:19:05.196 encounter with the hacker and then when our story is 0:19:05.196 --> 0:19:05.756 taking place. 0:19:06.916 --> 0:19:09.916 Well, this is part of the twist because when you 0:19:09.996 --> 0:19:12.316 get into the future, you think that an enormous amount 0:19:12.356 --> 0:19:15.676 of time has passed because the future is radically different 0:19:15.956 --> 0:19:19.996 from when Cole disappeared, and it's so different that he 0:19:20.036 --> 0:19:20.836 can't believe it. 0:19:21.996 --> 0:19:22.836 But we start to. 0:19:22.836 --> 0:19:25.636 Learn that actually a very small amount of time, much 0:19:25.676 --> 0:19:28.596 more less time than you might suspect, has passed between 0:19:28.596 --> 0:19:30.916 when he died and when he was brought back because 0:19:30.956 --> 0:19:34.316 these computers, as Gary was saying, have accelerated human decision 0:19:34.356 --> 0:19:36.156 making to the points that our. 0:19:35.996 --> 0:19:37.756 Society has started to run on this. 0:19:37.796 --> 0:19:41.716 Utopia cycle and everything is just going much faster and 0:19:41.796 --> 0:19:43.996 much better than anyone could have imagined in our time. 0:19:44.916 --> 0:19:47.956 And it's because of this great genius who was the kid. 0:19:48.396 --> 0:19:51.636 The kid is is the thing that made the difference 0:19:51.876 --> 0:19:54.316 because he didn't kill him. Because Cole didn't kill him, 0:19:54.396 --> 0:19:57.436 he survived and he became the great genius that ushered 0:19:57.516 --> 0:20:00.276 us into this accelerated utopia. 0:20:00.436 --> 0:20:02.916 Now, why one thing I don't understand. If we are 0:20:02.916 --> 0:20:06.396 in accelerated utopia, why do we need saving? Why would 0:20:06.556 --> 0:20:10.596 utopia have a kind of expiry date. Isn't the definition 0:20:10.636 --> 0:20:12.716 of utopia that it keeps going in perpetuity? 0:20:13.836 --> 0:20:15.236 Well, I mean, so this is part of the great 0:20:15.236 --> 0:20:17.356 middle of the beginning of the story is why is 0:20:17.396 --> 0:20:20.436 it exactly that we're going to die? What could possibly 0:20:20.476 --> 0:20:23.756 go wrong? Everything seems like it's perfect. What is going 0:20:23.756 --> 0:20:26.916 to destroy the world? Well, nobody is able to identify 0:20:26.956 --> 0:20:29.236 exactly at the beginning of the movie what's going to 0:20:29.276 --> 0:20:30.996 go on. All they know is that the computers are 0:20:31.076 --> 0:20:33.636 quite insistent that is going to happen in the next 0:20:33.636 --> 0:20:37.076 twenty four hours. And what happens over the middle parts 0:20:37.076 --> 0:20:41.356 of the screenplay is various different alternatives start to emerge. 0:20:41.396 --> 0:20:44.396 We start to see all of these different moving pieces, 0:20:44.436 --> 0:20:46.676 and we start to realize, oh, sure, you know it's 0:20:46.676 --> 0:20:49.276 a utopia, but there's still humans in it, and there's 0:20:49.276 --> 0:20:52.236 still other things going on. And I don't know how 0:20:52.236 --> 0:20:54.676 many of the twists you want me to ruin up, Malcolm. 0:20:54.676 --> 0:20:56.956