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Speaker 1: Hey, this is any and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.

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Speaker 1: Never told your prediction. I heart radio. Here's the here's

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Speaker 1: the question. Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, Um, what is

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Speaker 1: one of the worst the fingers you've ever had to

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Speaker 1: experience in your life? Oh? You know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: We talked about this because we were talking about Star

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Speaker 1: Wars and how you had wished that you were in

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Speaker 1: that generation so you could have been part of the

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Speaker 1: like the excitement of coming to see it, and I

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Speaker 1: was thinking that our generation was probably more of like

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Speaker 1: Harry Potter and that's still a little older, a little

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Speaker 1: younger for me. But as it went, I think that

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Speaker 1: was something that I was like, oh yeah, I'm waiting

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Speaker 1: for that that we got to watch it. But then again,

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Speaker 1: like recently super Natural, since I've been watching it and

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Speaker 1: because of the hiatus I've been awaiting and since it

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Speaker 1: was the finale, it felt like a big cliffhanger too. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, and I know I've talked about it on

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Speaker 1: the show before, but uh, it's always comes out as

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Speaker 1: a brag and I don't we need to be. But

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Speaker 1: I've watched that on TV like literally since it's been

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Speaker 1: out right and they used to be like epic, like

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Speaker 1: Season four and Dean's hanging for the chains and you're like,

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Speaker 1: I've gotta wait months and what happens. They did that

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Speaker 1: like every time they were oh clutch, A lot of

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Speaker 1: those c w w B that they had the cliff,

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Speaker 1: they had it down. I think I agree with you

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Speaker 1: about Harry Potter. That was pretty big, especially between like

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Speaker 1: four and five. That was like a five year weight.

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Speaker 1: It was a long wait. Well because it also was

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Speaker 1: pretty close into the book releases, so you didn't know

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Speaker 1: any of the story because I would say Lord of

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Speaker 1: the Rings. But we had the books and it was accessible,

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Speaker 1: and of course I was really excited to see because

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Speaker 1: that was probably my generation more so than Harry Potter. Um,

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Speaker 1: I was really excited to see it. But I could

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Speaker 1: read what was happening, and I did. I went through

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Speaker 1: those books because I like, I gotta go good at now. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: That's the interesting thing now that I'm thinking about about

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Speaker 1: Star Wars for me and my complaints about not getting

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Speaker 1: to experience that is I did get to experience the prequels,

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Speaker 1: which I did like as a kid. But the thing,

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Speaker 1: as you knew, it's the thing with Word of the Rings,

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Speaker 1: so I knew how it ended, Like we all knew, well,

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Speaker 1: you could find out they were born, right, so it

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Speaker 1: wasn't that same level. Um and then I will say

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Speaker 1: Avengers if anymore in game, Like we were all pretty

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Speaker 1: sure what was going to happen, but that was a

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Speaker 1: pretty epic clipper, right. I didn't know because I don't

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Speaker 1: I guess I don't dig deep into what I think

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Speaker 1: is going to happen. Yeah, yeah on those adventure movies.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, what's happening? I mean that was so

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Speaker 1: great though for that like almost a year we had

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Speaker 1: that dust effect and it was just like, right, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm bringing this up because this is a rare part

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Speaker 1: two stuff I've never told you doesn't do too many

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Speaker 1: two parters, even though we probably should. Yeah, we're always

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Speaker 1: like future episode too much. Um. And it's about a

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Speaker 1: revisionist history of abortion and Samantha, you just saw I

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Speaker 1: saw something about um so the Human Rights Watch organization,

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Speaker 1: and I've noticed I follow them and the people they

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Speaker 1: retweet and uh, according to their reports this week, Argentina's

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Speaker 1: lower health past the bill legalizing abortion, and that is huge.

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Speaker 1: Now of course, obviously it sounds like it's going to

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Speaker 1: be a lot of big work up to see what happens.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that it has already started, and as

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Speaker 1: we've been talking about previously about different countries around the world,

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Speaker 1: how this is becoming a bigger and bigger thing, and

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Speaker 1: how we are seeing it played out and abortions rights

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Speaker 1: and the reproduction rights, reproductive rights as we're talking about

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Speaker 1: it in in Georgia and in the US. So seeing

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Speaker 1: that Argentina is also making moves is amazing. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I see uh a Monday many in our future,

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Speaker 1: perhaps keep an eye on that. Um, I will know.

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Speaker 1: As with your cord this it's December, so things can change.

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Speaker 1: Imagining this is happening in January, people like what just

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Speaker 1: what in the world's ended? What are you talking about? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I hope not. I hope not. Well in the meantime, yes,

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Speaker 1: please enjoy this classic episode. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never

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Speaker 1: Told You from House Toport dot com. Hello, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Prison and I'm Caroline, And this

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Speaker 1: is part two of our two parter on the history

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Speaker 1: of abortion and really the history of the criminalization and

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Speaker 1: subsequent legalization of abortion focused here in the United States. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: In our last episode, we essentially ended on the point

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Speaker 1: where abortion had become illegal across and America. Women who

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Speaker 1: sought abortions were considered immoral and irresponsible. There was no

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Speaker 1: discussion of what responsibility the father had, if any, And

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Speaker 1: all of this was set against the backdrop of being

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Speaker 1: the progressive era, where a lot of people assumed they

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Speaker 1: knew better, that they knew better than women of whatever class,

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Speaker 1: but particularly poor women. Uh. They assumed they knew better

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Speaker 1: than women of color. Uh, they assumed they knew better

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Speaker 1: than midwives. And that all of these people were just

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Speaker 1: essentially helpless, unintelligent, immoral, low class people who should be

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Speaker 1: taught just how immoral they were being by seeking abortions.

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Speaker 1: And there's one person in particular who is complex and

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Speaker 1: controversial but also a pioneer and someone who in a

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Speaker 1: very fascinating way, encompasses all of these elements. Is that me, Carol,

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Speaker 1: And it's hunger. Oh my gosh, thank you. It is

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Speaker 1: Margaret Sanger. Yeah, okay, well I think she was also

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Speaker 1: a brunette. I'll take it. Yeah, another brown eyed girl, yes, exactly. Um.

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Speaker 1: And of course Margaret Sanger was controversial in her day,

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Speaker 1: just as she's still controversial now, but in an effort

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Speaker 1: to provide women away to prevent pregnancy, she wanted to

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Speaker 1: liberate them. She wanted to give women a choice in

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Speaker 1: limiting their families, but in doing so, she also wanted

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Speaker 1: to prevent abortion. She was not on the abortion train,

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Speaker 1: so to speak. But this is a woman who also

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Speaker 1: then helped found Planned Parenthood exactly. And um, she came

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Speaker 1: of age under the Comstock era laws. And for those

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Speaker 1: of you who haven't listened to part one, just as

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Speaker 1: a recap, Anthony Compstaw is the worst. He basically is

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Speaker 1: responsible for outlawing any sort of birth control related information

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Speaker 1: being sent through the mail. And regardless, sang Or dedicated

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Speaker 1: her life to legalizing birth control, the very thing that

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Speaker 1: would be illegal to talk to people about some correspondence

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Speaker 1: about I'm sure you could not advertise birth control the time.

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Speaker 1: And she wanted to develop what she called a magic

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Speaker 1: pill to help save women's lives. Yeah, and so it's

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Speaker 1: worth noting, like I was saying, that sang Her thought

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Speaker 1: that abortion was okay only as a last resort to

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Speaker 1: save the mother's life. She thought that doing it to

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Speaker 1: limit offspring was dangerous and vicious. But The whole thing

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Speaker 1: was that she felt that providing women a safe contraceptive

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Speaker 1: method would make abortion wholly unnecessary, which is interesting when

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Speaker 1: you revisit that thought today, because so many people are

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Speaker 1: still against comprehensive sex said, they're against providing birth control

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Speaker 1: or contraception of any kind, and yet they're also against

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Speaker 1: letting people have abortions. So Sayer's reasoning was, if we

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Speaker 1: teach women and couples, not just women, but couples about contraception,

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Speaker 1: we can prevent this thing that so many people seem

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Speaker 1: to dislike so much. And this conviction was deeply personal

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Speaker 1: for her because she watched her Irish Catholic mother essentially

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Speaker 1: waste away at forty eight from tuberculosis after having eleven

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Speaker 1: children and seven miscarriages. And after she grew up, she

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Speaker 1: worked as a nurse in New York where she treated

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Speaker 1: poor immigrant women who pursued unsafe abortions after using ineffective contraception.

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Speaker 1: So she saw firsthand, on you know, professional and also

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Speaker 1: a very personal familial level, the impact of women not

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Speaker 1: having choice or any control really over their bodies, right,

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Speaker 1: and she it's it's said that she blamed her father

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Speaker 1: like over her mother's Coffin for his sex drive that

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Speaker 1: killed her mother. But if we're going chronologically, Margaret Sanger

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Speaker 1: was super busy in the years nineteen fourteen to nineteen sixteen.

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Speaker 1: Who wasn't seriously, I mean, can't get a break. But

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Speaker 1: so in this time, in nineteen fourteen, she coins the

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Speaker 1: term birth control. So anytime in this episode, in the

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Speaker 1: previous episode we've said the words birth control, those words

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Speaker 1: didn't even really exist yet in the way that we

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Speaker 1: think of them until Sanger coined the term. Uh. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen, she was indicted for sending diaphragms through the mail,

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Speaker 1: and then in nineteen sixteen she opens the country's first

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Speaker 1: birth control clinic in Brooklyn. Of course, it was shut

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Speaker 1: down just a few days later, and Sanger was convicted

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Speaker 1: under those Comstock laws of disseminating birth control info. But

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Speaker 1: she's a sneaky little man, inks, and she did that

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Speaker 1: on purpose. It's not like she was like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna hope that no one notices and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be mailing women diaphragms in Ohio. No, she knew that

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Speaker 1: it was against the law to disseminate birth control and

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Speaker 1: to disseminate information about birth control, so she herself leaked

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Speaker 1: the information to the press so that she could fight

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Speaker 1: basically within the newspapers and from court these terrible freaking

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Speaker 1: comstock laws. And when she appealed her conviction, she won,

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Speaker 1: and it led to a new interpretation of New York's

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Speaker 1: anti contraception statute, exempting doctors from the rule prohibiting birth

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Speaker 1: control information dissemination if it was for medical reasons. There

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Speaker 1: we go, so Sanger gets their first big victory. Then

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Speaker 1: in she found the American Birth Control League, which is

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Speaker 1: the precursor to planned parenthood. Thing is, she wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: been able to do that had she not gone through

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Speaker 1: the trouble of mailing diaphragms, you know what I mean, Like,

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Speaker 1: she could never have had this clinic unless she broke

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Speaker 1: the law. She had her good friend Katherine money Bags

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Speaker 1: McLintock smuggle these diaphragms back in her coat from Europe

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Speaker 1: so that she could mail them. And of course, btw,

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Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about Kathery McClintock, you

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Speaker 1: need to go over to our sister podcast, Stuff you

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Speaker 1: missed in History Class. They've got a great episode all

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Speaker 1: about her. But any who, in three uh, the Clinical

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Speaker 1: Research Bureau opens and it's part of that American Birth

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Speaker 1: Control League. It's the first legal birth control clinic and

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Speaker 1: it serves as the abc l's medical arms. So it

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Speaker 1: provides couples with contraception and counseling, It conducts research and

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Speaker 1: a contraceptive and reproduction related medical practices. So she's a

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Speaker 1: she's a genius, like managing to break the law in

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Speaker 1: order to be able to open. Essentially what is like

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Speaker 1: a loophole clinic, Like, oh, well, you know, I can't

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Speaker 1: provide women with birth control or birth control education, but

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Speaker 1: these doctors can. And so after a lot of wrangling

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Speaker 1: and separating and merging and renaming these two groups, these

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Speaker 1: two related groups become Planned Parenthood in nineteen forty two,

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Speaker 1: and in ninety eight, just a few years later, Planned

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Speaker 1: Parenthood awards a grant to the pretty nutty doctor Gregory Pinkis,

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Speaker 1: who works with John Rock to create the pill. So

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Speaker 1: Sanger was the ideas lady. She's like cornering Pinkus at

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Speaker 1: cocktail parties, being like, you're going to do this for me?

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Speaker 1: And he's like, cool, let's do it. I'm already testing

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Speaker 1: things in possibly unethical ways and wealthy feminist suffragist Katherine

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Speaker 1: McCormick teamed up with her to encourage that research and development.

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Speaker 1: So you've got these women with kookie ideas about giving

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Speaker 1: women their freedom to choose what kind of life they

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Speaker 1: want to live. And by the nineteen sixties, Planned Parenthood

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Speaker 1: had become this major force for women's health, birth control,

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Speaker 1: and family planning. In in in nineteen sixty two, President Alan

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Speaker 1: Gootmacker is this huge advocate for abortion access in the

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Speaker 1: wake of these health crises in the United States, the

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Speaker 1: Philidimide and Rebella crises, which led to a lot of

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Speaker 1: birth defects, a lot of deformities among children. But abortion

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Speaker 1: services do not become part of Planned Parenthood until after

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Speaker 1: the ro versus Way decision in nineteen seventy three. Who

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Speaker 1: but anyway, we've got to back up, because the whole

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Speaker 1: thing about why Margaret saying are still today is even

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Speaker 1: more controversial than just supporting birth control and women's independence.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, imagine the thought. Also, in one the

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Speaker 1: same year that she founded the American Birth Control League,

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Speaker 1: she also penned an essay titled the Eugenic Value of

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Speaker 1: Birth Control Propaganda. Yeah, so she was one of the many,

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Speaker 1: many a high profile Americans to subscribe to the eugenic theory.

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Speaker 1: But the whole thing, as gene H. Baker argues in

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Speaker 1: her book Margaret Saying Or A Life of Passion, is

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Speaker 1: that her acceptance of the movement was a calculated, pragmatic tactic.

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Speaker 1: Because Margaret sang Or was nothing y'all if not pragmatic

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Speaker 1: and tactical and calculated. Baker writes, she needed allies and eugenics,

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Speaker 1: the expert qualifications of its proponents, the scientific trappings of

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Speaker 1: its evidence, it's expanding network of journals and associations, it's

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Speaker 1: general acceptance among Americans, and even its international connections represented

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to find friends and join a popular movement.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is, she wasn't exactly welcomed with open

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Speaker 1: arms by racists and classist eugenicists. In fact, a lot

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Speaker 1: of them dismissed her and said that she didn't really

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Speaker 1: understand the theory, and they really weren't too interested in

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Speaker 1: her birth controlled notoriety either. Um And the main reason

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Speaker 1: that they kind of gave Singer the side I was

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Speaker 1: that she rejected the notion of race suicide and that

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Speaker 1: rich white people should have more babies. Really, her thing,

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Speaker 1: as we've said, was trying to liberate women in the process.

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Speaker 1: She challenged eugenicis sex for reproduction idea. She really believed

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Speaker 1: in the importance of the environment in improving society because

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Speaker 1: she'd been born into one of those overpopulated, impoverished families.

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Speaker 1: So she really thought that overpopulation was the problem, not

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Speaker 1: the quote unquote good stock, as Teddy Roosevelt put it,

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Speaker 1: which is a euphemistic way of saying white folks. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: white folks working farm jobs and whatever. Uh So, when

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Speaker 1: we look at that essay from there's some good parts

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Speaker 1: of it, right. So she called birth control a new

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Speaker 1: weapon of civilization and free edom. She wrote, not until

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Speaker 1: the parents of the world are thus given control over

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Speaker 1: their reproductive faculties will it ever be possible, not alone

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Speaker 1: to improve the quality of generations of the future, but

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Speaker 1: even to maintain civilization at its present level. And she

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Speaker 1: really dismisses politicians and theorists idealistic codes of sexual ethics,

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Speaker 1: the same things that people say today in criticizing things

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Speaker 1: like abstinence only sex said, because the whole idea of

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Speaker 1: like people like sex, people are gonna do the sex.

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Speaker 1: Let's not have these idealistic thoughts about people not having sex,

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Speaker 1: and let's try to meet them where they are. But

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Speaker 1: of course there's the in her essay as well, in

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Speaker 1: which she writes the eugenic and civilizational value of birth

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Speaker 1: control is becoming a parent to the enlightened and the intelligent. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, basically, it seems like she I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I mean that she's sort of trying to get on

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Speaker 1: their good sides by being like, yeah, yeah, yeah, eugenics,

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Speaker 1: that's totally cool, and I've got this great way that

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Speaker 1: you can make that happen. It's through this little thing

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Speaker 1: called birth control. And if we can teach you about

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Speaker 1: eugenics and the importance of that, then in the process

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Speaker 1: we can teach mothers about prophylaxis, sexual hygiene, and infant welfare.

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Speaker 1: So while I honestly I don't see her motives as

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Speaker 1: entirely pure, because even moderately aligning with eugenics is is

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Speaker 1: not okay um, but it does seem like she has

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Speaker 1: ulterior motives to what she's saying, yeah, because it does

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Speaker 1: get worse. I mean, I'm not gonna lie here. She

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Speaker 1: basically said, Listen, we can't stand by as the poor, criminal,

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Speaker 1: and disabled have more kids than the wealthy do. But

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Speaker 1: she wasn't arguing that we should, for instance, abort the

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Speaker 1: children of poor people were disabled people. She was saying, rather,

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Speaker 1: all of us should be having fewer children. She's got

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Speaker 1: this really long quote about how unbalanced and this is

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Speaker 1: this is under the category of bad. Uh. She says,

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Speaker 1: there's this unbalanced between the birthrates of the fit and

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Speaker 1: the unfit, which is a huge menace to civilization. And

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Speaker 1: the wealthy. She's saying, or the fit should not be

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Speaker 1: taking cues from the poor and the unfit by having

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Speaker 1: more children. We should all be limiting our reproduction. She

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Speaker 1: did go on to a point eugenicist to her clinics board. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and eventually her former critics as people who were like, Sayinger,

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Speaker 1: you're not doing eugenics right. Even her former critics came

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Speaker 1: to see birth control that she was advocating for as

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Speaker 1: a weapon against the high birthrates of the so called deficient, though,

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Speaker 1: as Jane Baker writes, they still favored sterilization. And not

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Speaker 1: surprisingly though this whole you know, association with direct association

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Speaker 1: with eugenicists and the viewpoints that she's just housing in

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Speaker 1: this essay are used commonly today and attempts to discredit

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Speaker 1: Singer and convince people that birth control to some extent

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Speaker 1: and abortion to an even greater extent, our efforts specifically

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Speaker 1: to wipe out black people, and in fact, black activists

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Speaker 1: in the late sixties accused Planned Parenthood of committing genocide

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Speaker 1: by providing birth control in their neighborhoods, wondering, hey, why

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Speaker 1: are you stutting up shop here? This seems a little suspicious.

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Speaker 1: But it's important to note as well that back in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, leaders in the black community, including W. E. B.

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Speaker 1: Dubois and Mary McLeod Bethoon, supported Singer's birth control advocacy

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Speaker 1: and her so called Negro Project, or effort to open

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Speaker 1: clinics for black women in the segregated South where only

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Speaker 1: white women had access to birth control, and also to

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Speaker 1: train black doctors. Yeah, and she, in an interview in

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Speaker 1: was telling the reporter, when we first started out, an

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Speaker 1: anti Negro white man offered me ten thousand dollars if

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Speaker 1: I started in Harlem first. His idea was simply to

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Speaker 1: cut down the number of negroes, spread it as far

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Speaker 1: as you can among them. He said. That is of

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Speaker 1: course not our idea. I turned him down, but that

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Speaker 1: is an example of how vicious some people can be

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Speaker 1: about this thing. So her motivation, while yes, she was

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Speaker 1: opening birth control clinics in black neighborhoods or in poorer

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Speaker 1: neighborhoods in general, her motivation was not to cut down

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Speaker 1: on the numbers of poor people or people of color.

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Speaker 1: Her motivation was to be the provider of this birth

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Speaker 1: control and family planning and reproductive services information that women

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Speaker 1: weren't getting elsewhere, particularly in this case women of color.

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Speaker 1: I mean IMMANI gandhy over at r H. Reality check

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Speaker 1: argues that, to be honest, uh saying or was more

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Speaker 1: ablest than she was capital are racist? Did she say

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Speaker 1: racist things? Yes? Was she elitist? Probably, but she had

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Speaker 1: far more negative things to say about the mentally and

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Speaker 1: physically disabled in society going on to procreate than she

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Speaker 1: did about people of color. Well, and those planned parenthood

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Speaker 1: and birth control clinics being set up in black communities

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Speaker 1: might also make more sense when we look at what

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Speaker 1: was going on and the links that women, especially poorer

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Speaker 1: women and socio economically disadvantaged women, we're having to go

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Speaker 1: to in order to deal with unwanted pregnancies because as

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Speaker 1: we have said before, I mean, regardless of whether abortion

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Speaker 1: is illegal or not, women have had them and will

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Speaker 1: always have them. So if we go back to nineteen thirty,

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Speaker 1: kind of, while Sayinger is building up for biz, abortion

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Speaker 1: was said as the official cause of death for almost

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Speaker 1: women around the United States and nearly eighteen percent of

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Speaker 1: maternal deaths recorded that year. And this is coming from

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Speaker 1: the Gootmacker Institute and down the road, antibiotics would help

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Speaker 1: reduce the death toll. Um. But I mean, if if

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Speaker 1: there's another Kinsey Institute researcher who estimated the annual illegal

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Speaker 1: abortion death toll in the nineteen thirties the entire decade

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Speaker 1: at seventeen thousand, because I mean, these numbers start to

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Speaker 1: get a little unreliable because that I just mentioned is

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Speaker 1: what is officially recorded. But since there were so many

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Speaker 1: back alley procedures happening and things happening in women's homes, um,

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Speaker 1: undoubtedly the number is higher than that. But what did

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Speaker 1: we do? How do we solve this issue of this,

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Speaker 1: you know, this health crisis essentially improving safe abortion? No,

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Speaker 1: no enforcement, get the police involved. Yeah, so instead of

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Speaker 1: trying to help women, educate families, anything of that, you know,

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Speaker 1: very human nature. We essentially make women criminals. We we

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Speaker 1: interrogate them while they're hospitalized after their bodged procedures. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and in nineteen sixty five, so thirty five years later,

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Speaker 1: illegal abortion was still accounting for seventeen percent of all

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Speaker 1: deaths attributed to pregnancy and childbirth that year. So I

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Speaker 1: mean the situation hasn't improved. It's not like fewer women

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Speaker 1: are seeking abortions, and low income women are especially hit

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Speaker 1: hard by this issue. So a study of low income

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Speaker 1: women in New York City in the nineteen sixties found

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Speaker 1: that eight percent had ever attempted to terminate a pregnancy

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Speaker 1: via illegal abortion, and seventy of those women attempted self

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Speaker 1: induced abortion. And of all the women they talked to,

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Speaker 1: thirty eight percent of them knew someone who had sought

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Speaker 1: an illegal abortion. And of course, when it comes to

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Speaker 1: illegal abortions and self induced abortions, it gets very, very dangerous,

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Speaker 1: that's right. That same study of women in New York

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Speaker 1: found that one in four white women's childbirth fatalities happened

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Speaker 1: because of an abortion, compared to one in two women

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Speaker 1: of colors. So there you start to see that same

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Speaker 1: socio economic issue cropping up, and from two to nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy four, in fact, the mortality rate due to illegal

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Speaker 1: abortion for non white women was twelve times greater than

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Speaker 1: that for white women. And regardless though of these statistics,

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Speaker 1: regardless of the fact that women knew that these kinds

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Speaker 1: of procedures were very dangerous and illegal, they sought them

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Speaker 1: out anyway. So again this is coming from the Gootmacker Institute.

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Speaker 1: In the nineteen fifties and sixties and estimated two thousand

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Speaker 1: to one point two million abortions were performed in the

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Speaker 1: United States uh and by the nineteen sixties though, all

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Speaker 1: states but Pennsylvania had exemptions to their abortion laws. So

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Speaker 1: by this time the laws on a state by state

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Speaker 1: basis are starting to open up a little bit. People

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Speaker 1: are starting to get together there even like coalitions of

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Speaker 1: doctors who are you know, having seen all these patients

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Speaker 1: coming in having you know, damaged themselves from illegal or

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Speaker 1: attempted self induced abortions, see the problem and realize that

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Speaker 1: something needs to be done with this. So we we

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Speaker 1: are seeing more access, but obtaining an abortion during this

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Speaker 1: time was still not very simple. Most hospitals would have

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Speaker 1: a board of doctors set up and it would usually,

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Speaker 1: of course be all dudes UM where if you were

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Speaker 1: a patient in need of an abortion, you would have

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Speaker 1: to go before this board and essentially have your procedure approved.

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Speaker 1: But even getting that far meant that you likely had

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Speaker 1: to be a white woman with a little bit of

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Speaker 1: disposal income and time. So much time the time to

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Speaker 1: do this, I mean, you had to go before this

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Speaker 1: standing hospital committee. It might require an additional physical exam

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00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: by a doctor, it might require a mental health exam

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00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: by a psychiatrist, and then you might have to have

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Speaker 1: some type of law enforcement officer certifying that a woman

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Speaker 1: had actually been sexually assaulted in the case of saying

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Speaker 1: I need the abortion because I was raped or assaulted. Yeah,

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00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: I mean because during this time I should have clarified

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Speaker 1: that this is only to obtain one of those therapeutic abortions.

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Speaker 1: This wasn't abortion on demand, right, And you know you

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Speaker 1: brought up the issue of UM laws and attitude starting

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Speaker 1: to loosen up a little bit. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: it's worth referring back to that author Leslie Reagan, who

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Speaker 1: we quoted in our first episode, where she talked a

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Speaker 1: lot about the professionalization of medicine and how that turned

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00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: so many people against midwives and against trusting women to

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Speaker 1: know their own bodies. And she pointed out, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's worth noting here that there's always been a

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Speaker 1: distinction between quote unquote organized medicine and individual physicians, because

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Speaker 1: organized medicine capital oh, capital M in all of the

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Speaker 1: air quotes, was at this time, yes, officially against abortion

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Speaker 1: and in some cases maybe only accepting of abortion in

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Speaker 1: the cases of rape or ancestor things like that. UM,

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00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: But it was the doctors who were on the front line,

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00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: so to speak, who we're seeing, these desperate women who

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Speaker 1: needed these procedures, who might be trying to help women

427
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: and provide them anyway. Well, and you also have women

428
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: kind of creating their own abortion services in a way. UM.

429
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty three, the feminist abortion Counseling service of

430
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: the Chicago Women's Liberation Union It's a long name creates

431
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: an underground abortion service code named Jane. And the story

432
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: of Jane is worth its own podcast, honestly, because it

433
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: all started when one woman UM was approached by a

434
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: friend of hers who had knew someone who really needed

435
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: an abortion and this woman knew a doctor, and so

436
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: that kind of started the whole thing. It's like she

437
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 1: knew one doctor who could do it. So then like

438
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: the words spread that that this woman could hook you

439
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: up with a doctor who would perform an abortion. And

440
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: she realized that the more women who were coming to her,

441
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: how big this need was. And since abortion and reproductive

442
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: rights were such a huge issue within second wave feminism

443
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: and women's liberation, UH, they decided to kind of align

444
00:28:54,440 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: with the Chicago Women's Liberation Union and about one hundred

445
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: women set this underground service up that provided more than

446
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: eleven thousand safe and affordable abortions through nineteen seventy three

447
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: when Rob Wade happened. Yeah, it's fascinating that you could

448
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: even find them through the phone book. It was actually

449
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: listed under the name Jane how And some of those

450
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: women who were working in this network actually themselves became

451
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: trained in administering an abortion. And it was one first

452
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: person account that we read of a woman who went

453
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: through this Jane process and she was astounded. Basically, she's like,

454
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: here are these like soccer moms? Essentially, she didn't say that,

455
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: but it was like, here are these like well to

456
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: do white ladies who have kids of their own, and

457
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: they're like having me over for tea to prep me

458
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,959
Speaker 1: for the procedure, to tell me what to expect and

459
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: how to prepare and and where to go, and she's like,

460
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: you know, it just blew my mind that these women

461
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: were being so supportive. Well, and when though the actual

462
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: day would come, the women would have to be blindfolded

463
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: during the procedure so that they could never see the

464
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: abortionists because uh, if they knew that then that abortionists

465
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: could be liable for obviously for being arrested. But they

466
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: even mentioned that some Chicago police were helpful in a

467
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: way about it, like there were a couple of times

468
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: when you know, women would show up to the Jane

469
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: House obviously and look a little confused, and there'd be

470
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: a police officer who would be like, you know, you

471
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: just go, you know, kind of a wink and a

472
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: nudge like, yeah, you're at the right place going up there, um,

473
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,959
Speaker 1: which I mean, that's it seems like a rare exception

474
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: to the rule of people generally being awful in regard

475
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: to women seeking abortion at the time, but it speaks

476
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: so much to the lengths that women were willing to

477
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: go to that they would train themselves well. Also they

478
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: had a doctor who trained them to um and even

479
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: performing abortions and like setting up this whole network in Chicago.

480
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: And there was even a black woman talking about her

481
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: motivation for joining Jane so that when women of color

482
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: would come through that it would be comforting for them

483
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: to see her in the room. And how interesting though

484
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,239
Speaker 1: write that In our first episode we talked about how

485
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: the progressive era really Chicago was sort of an incubator

486
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: for all of these progressive era movements, but I mean

487
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: they also existed, of course across the country. And then

488
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: you had that group of upper class white people, both

489
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,719
Speaker 1: women and doctors and whoever, telling other people that they

490
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: knew better than them. And now here you've got this

491
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: wonderful underground, supportive network of again middle to upper class

492
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: white women and women of color who were like, no,

493
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: I'm I'm here for my sisters to help them through

494
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: this time. And partially because of the protests and activism

495
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: of the Women's liberation movement and concerted efforts by groups

496
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: of doctors, also religious groups, politicians, attitudes and laws, we're

497
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: finally starting to change. In fact, by the time Roe

498
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: V Wade passed, most states had rolled back their abortion laws. Um,

499
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: there was only there only. I think Pennsylvania was the

500
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: only place that completely outlawed abortion under any circumstances. So,

501
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: as has been pretty clear throughout Part one and now

502
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: our part two discussion on abortion, it's really hard to

503
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: separate the fight for birth control from the fight for abortion.

504
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: They're all sort of one and the same, especially when

505
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: you look back at the era of the Comstock laws

506
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: in the turn of the twentieth century, and so many

507
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: people equated the two. It's it's they can't seem to

508
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: be separated in so many people's minds, And so I

509
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: wanted to hit on some birth control milestones that were

510
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: happening at the same time as the abortion laws were

511
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: being rolled back in so many states across the country.

512
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: So in nineteen speaking of the Comstock laws, the U. S.

513
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: Supreme Court did away with them, saying that the private

514
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: use of contraceptives was a constitutional right, and immediately ten

515
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: states loosened to their birth control restrictions, followed in the

516
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: next three years by I think thirteen others, and then

517
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy, just five years later, President Nixon signed

518
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: titled ten into law, which made contraceptives available regardless of

519
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: income and also provided funding for educational programs and research

520
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: and contraceptive development. Hey, that's a pretty cool thing that

521
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: old Nixon did. Right there, we go, all right, thanks

522
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: for that. At least Nixon um Planned Parenthood got money

523
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: from titled TIN and Medicaid patients to subsidize birth control,

524
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: STD screenings and other reproductive health services for patients who

525
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: might lack health insurance coverage. So that's a really big deal.

526
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and that's why Title ten is so important

527
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: still today. I mean, it's still it's still with us,

528
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: and it's still helps land Parenthood and other reproductive health

529
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: clinics help people in this country. And then into the

530
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: Supreme Court finally, okay, is birth control use by unmarried women? Thanks?

531
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: I mean like thank you, no, thank you. But like guys, country,

532
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: United States people, it took that long for it to

533
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: be like, all right, unmarried women, like, we'll let you

534
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: have this as well. And isn't it wild to think

535
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: that it took the Supreme Court to decide that it's wild?

536
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: And yet not in this country's history, especially considering all

537
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: of the history we've just been going over. But on

538
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: the abortion front. What's happening simultaneously in this time. If

539
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: we hop back a little bit to nineteen sixty two,

540
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: the American Law Institute calls for abortion to be legal

541
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: under certain circumstances, so like in instances of rape and incests.

542
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: They were this this whole group of judges, lawyers, aw

543
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: enforcement who's saying, like, come on, like, we we have

544
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: to loosen the restrictions on women who go through these

545
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 1: certain situations. In nineteen sixty seven, if we hop back

546
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: across the pond, Britain passes the Abortion Act, allowing for

547
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: abortion as long as two medical professionals agreed that pregnancy

548
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: endangered the mom's life, or the mental or physical health

549
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: of the woman and her children, or in cases of

550
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: fetal deformity and handicap. It's also in this year that

551
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: Colorado becomes the first U. S state to rework their

552
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: abortion laws based on those American Law Institute recommendations. So

553
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: this is what Kristen is talking about when she mentioned

554
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: how in America we start seeing this rollback on the

555
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: across the board ban on abortion. And in nineteen seventy

556
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: we get some really good news. Hawaii becomes the first

557
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: state to decriminalize abortion, and this is through twenty weeks

558
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: and only for residents. The big news also that year

559
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 1: New York is the first to legalize abortion without that

560
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: residency require it and through the twenty four week of

561
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 1: pregnancy if performed by a physician. And in the first

562
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: year abortion became legalized in New York, six of the

563
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,720
Speaker 1: women who had abortions in that state came from out

564
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: of town. In nineteen seventy two, for instance, an estimated

565
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand women traveled to New York in order

566
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: to have an abortion. I mean, and that also goes

567
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: to not just the literal geographical links that women would

568
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: go to for an abortion, but think about again the time,

569
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: the cost. I remember. My mom, who has been a

570
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: flight attendant for about four hundred years, has told me

571
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: stories about how when she was first starting out flying,

572
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: and she was flying the short turnaround trips, which is

573
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: basically you go out one day and you come back

574
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: the same day on the same plane, and she would

575
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: take up young women to New York and see them

576
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: either traveling alone or with an older woman, and that

577
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: those same women would be coming back on the night

578
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: flight on the same same return trip to Atlanta. So

579
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: with the wink and the nod of like, okay, well

580
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: you're going to go have something done in New York.

581
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 1: You're traveling to New York for a purpose. Oh my gosh.

582
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: And just thinking this has been making me think too

583
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: about especially the situations in Texas where so many clinics

584
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: are being shut down and the thousands of miles that

585
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: women have to drive in order to get to a clinic. Yeah,

586
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: with all of those tens and tens and tens of

587
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: thousands of women who are traveling to New York, not

588
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: everybody could do that. You know, you had to have

589
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: the time and the money and the resources to be

590
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,479
Speaker 1: able to travel and have the procedure done well. Then,

591
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three, Old Scotus hands down its decision

592
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 1: and rov Wade legalizing abortion. And like I said, though

593
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: by this time abortion or form legislation had been introduced

594
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: in all but five states, and Ruth Peter Ginsburg actually

595
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: was one of many who were concerned over how Row

596
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: went down because it was legalized on the basis of

597
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: the Fourteenth Amendment and right to privacy, and she and

598
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 1: others were concerned that by not going the state by

599
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 1: state route it would, as it has been, be immediately challenged. Well, yeah,

600
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: it was, and it has been ever since, starting in

601
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six with the High Amendment. Representative Henry Hyde

602
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: introduced his namesake Amendment, which prohibited federal Medicaid funds for

603
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 1: abortions for poor women. So right out of the gate,

604
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: we have poor women being shoved to the side. Yet again,

605
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: here's the thing in this whole whole history of abortion,

606
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: poor women, women of color are always the ones who

607
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: are hit the hardest. Yeah, I mean we think of

608
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: the no federal funding for abortion are agument as being

609
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 1: a modern thing part of the modern planned parenthood debate

610
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: that's going on, that's raging and won't stop raging. But no,

611
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: I mean this is immediately after Row that the no

612
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: we are going to let you use federal funds for

613
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: abortion thing that started out right away. It's also this

614
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: same year, interestingly enough, that abortion becomes part of political platforms.

615
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: The Republicans adopt their anti choice platform and the Dems

616
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: align themselves with a pro choice platform. This is also

617
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: the year that Planned Parenthood sees its first arson and

618
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: a series of bombings follows in and next up on

619
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: this depressing timeline because it took us so long to

620
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: get to nineteen seventy three, and now we're just tumbling

621
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: right back down this hill. In Ballade versus Bared, the

622
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: ruling found that states could insist that a minor obtain

623
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: parental consent or persuade a judge that she was mature,

624
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: or that an abortion without parental notification was in her

625
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: best interests. So essentially we start to calm implicate the

626
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 1: process for obtaining an abortion on demand. And in nineteen

627
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: eighty that high Amendment rears its head again and Harras v. McRae,

628
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 1: the ruling stated that states were not required to fund

629
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 1: abortions for which federal reimbursement was not available thanks to

630
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: that high amendment. Further hides, funding restrictions were found not

631
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: to violate the Fifth Amendment. So it's against this backdrop

632
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: in the eighties during and post Reagan administration that anti abortion,

633
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: birth control and sex ed rhetoric and policies really pick up,

634
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: as does violence against abortion clinics. Again, we see even

635
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: more Planned parenthood bombings, and speaking of planned parenthood, Planned

636
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: Parenthood v. Casey upholds a highly restrictive Pennsylvania law that

637
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: included mandatory waiting periods, parental consent, and bias information and further,

638
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: and this was really troubling also to notorious RBG. The

639
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: court abandoned the legal principles of ROW and allowed laws

640
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: designed to limit access to abortion at any stage of pregnancy,

641
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: so long as the law does not place an undue

642
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: burden on a woman's access to abortion. And the definition

643
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 1: of an undue burden, my friends, is massive. I mean

644
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: quite recently there I forget the court case, but these

645
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: judges were going back and forth, I believe, over an

646
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: issue in Texas and this whole undue burden thing and

647
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: women were having to drive thousands of miles and one

648
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: of the judges was like, well, it's pretty flat in Texas.

649
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: They're not they're not walking, I mean unless they are,

650
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: but jeez, what really? No? And I I rolled my

651
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: eyes so heavily so many times reading that whole undue

652
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: burden bit, because what what do you what's supposed to

653
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: be the undue burden? Like, I mean, simply by closing clinics,

654
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: you're placing an undue burden on these women who have

655
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: to travel. Well, yeah, and with the mandatory waiting period,

656
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: I mean you have jobs on the line, and I

657
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: mean so much that you have to to do in

658
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: order to obtain one. And then the nineties there's just

659
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: a horrific string of violence, yeah, and pretty rapid succession.

660
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: We see Uhr, David Gunn becoming the first US abortion

661
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: provider to be murdered. The following year, another plan Parent

662
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: had doctor his security escort, and to Planned Parent had

663
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: employees were killed in separate shootings. And in we see

664
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: a bombing that kills an off duty police officer and

665
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: a sniper killing a doctor. So the nineties were incredibly

666
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: violent and scary for both abortion providers and seekers. And

667
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: more recently, in two thousand seven, in Gonzalez v. Carhart,

668
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: Scout US uphole the so called partial Birth Abortion Ban Act,

669
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: which President George W. Bush had signed into law in

670
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: two thousand three. And here's the thing. There is no

671
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: medical procedure known as partial birth. Essentially, it's more of

672
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: a rhetorical manipulation, yes, for a later term abortion, but

673
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: the law has been interpreted as barring doctors from performing

674
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: an intact dilation and evacuation, which is a procedure where

675
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: there's no instrumentation before the fetus is removed unless the

676
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: fetus is no longer alive. So it's it's horrifying. I mean,

677
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: this is so much context for the debate and the

678
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: violence were experiencing today around abortion and plant parenthead. But

679
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: it's horrifying that literally. I mean, since the Rev. Wade ruling,

680
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: we've just been trying to climb back down that mountain well,

681
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: and we've forgotten where we came from to begin with.

682
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: I mean, was this history as surprising to learn for

683
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 1: you as it was for me, just in terms of

684
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: all of the complexity and the midwhiffery and all of

685
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 1: this bait and switch that happened. Ye oh yeah. Absolutely.

686
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: The fact that abortion seems to be yes to people

687
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: for whatever reason find abortion to be immoral, and have

688
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,479
Speaker 1: they yes or to be taboo. Yes, But the fact

689
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: that abortion seems to have been, over our history a

690
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 1: tool for so many other arguments and so many other fights,

691
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: whether it is getting midwives competition out of the picture,

692
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: or whether it is having more control over women and

693
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: their bodies. Um, I think that aspect of it is

694
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: is pretty pretty stunning and disgusting. And of course it's

695
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: not just in the United States, where the abortion issue

696
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: is far from settled. I mean we have listeners in

697
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: Ireland who know this well. There's still no legal access

698
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: over there to abortion on demand, and that law was

699
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: recently held in Northern Ireland. Um there are six nations

700
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: the Holy See, Malta, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Nicaragua and

701
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: Chile that don't allow abortion under any circumstances. So regardless

702
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 1: of where our listeners stand politically and morally on this issue,

703
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: because I know that we have listeners who are pro

704
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: choice and who are anti choice and anti abortion. Although

705
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: you can be pro choice and anti abortion, those are

706
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: you know, not mutually exclusive. I hope that what we've

707
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 1: talked about has offered important historical context to just better

708
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: understand what those politicized platforms really mean and what they

709
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 1: mean to individual women's lives. Because I think a lot

710
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 1: of us are so familiar with the imagery of coat hangers,

711
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: and we know that these back alley abortions happened and

712
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: that some terrible things went down own, but I don't

713
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: think we really understand just how much is at stake

714
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: with this entire reproductive rights issue, and so I do

715
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: hope to hear from listeners. I'm interested to know whether

716
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: they were as surprised by some of this history and

717
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: this context as we were. So much of it was stunning,

718
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: So much of it wasn't even really that surprising when

719
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: you think about it, but just how gross it was

720
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 1: to me that women seem to be these pawns in

721
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: this constant, ongoing argument. So, listeners, mom stuff at how

722
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: stuff Works dot Com is our email address. You can

723
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 1: also tweet us at mom stuff podcast or message us

724
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: on Facebook. And I also want to invite listeners who

725
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: have had abortions. If you would like to share your

726
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 1: story with us, either openly or anonymously, we are safe

727
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 1: spaces to do that. Again. Our email addresses mom stuff

728
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: at how Stuff Work, stuck um at mom Stuff podcast

729
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,720
Speaker 1: on Twitter, and you can also message us on Facebook,

730
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of messages to share with

731
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 1: you right now. I have a letter here from Katie

732
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: in response to our Perfectionism episode. She says that she

733
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: put the episode on while she was getting ready for

734
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: work one morning, and by the end she found herself

735
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 1: in tears. So, Katie writes, I've never used the word

736
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: perfectionists to describe myself prior to listening to Little Miss Perfect.

737
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: I hadn't ever really even thought about the concept of perfectionism,

738
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: but each point you touched on during the show hit

739
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 1: closer and closer to home, starting with the discussion of

740
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: parental influence. My parents always held us to very high

741
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,919
Speaker 1: standards in every aspect of our lives, which I don't

742
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: necessarily consider to be a bad thing, as they only

743
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,359
Speaker 1: wanted the best for us. But you mentioned one key

744
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: factor that my parents unfortunately did not take into account

745
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: balancing those high expectations with loving support and enthusiasm. My

746
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: siblings and I were under immense pressure to achieve academically,

747
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 1: succeed socially, and maintain the appearance of a perfect family

748
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: life while receiving little to no reassurance that we were

749
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: smart enough, good enough, pretty enough, or that we would

750
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: be loved no matter our failures or shortcomings. As crazy

751
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 1: as it may sound, I didn't fully realize the impact

752
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: that had in my adult life until I heard the show.

753
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: I'm painfully aware of my habit of procrastination, but I've

754
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: never really made the connection with the concept of perfectionism.

755
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: I realized I tend to put things off when I'm

756
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: concerned the outcome may not be perfect, especially creative pursuits.

757
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: I've always loved writing, and I've made several attempts at

758
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: blogging and submitting articles for publication, but I always end

759
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: up leaving each project i'm finished. I now know this

760
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: is due to the inherent imperfections and potential for harsh criticism.

761
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: I love the idea you presented to soothe these anxieties,

762
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: like letting those worries play all the way out with

763
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: the what if prompt. Usually, if I continue to think

764
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 1: about what might happen next if I do or don't

765
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: do something, my worries shrink because I can hear how

766
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: insignificant the worries actually are. This has helped me follow

767
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 1: through with starting and maintaining a blog. By far, the

768
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: biggest shot concerning perfectionism came in the research statistics about

769
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: women who exhibit perfectionist tendencies being much more likely to cheat.

770
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: I married young and made every possible effort to construct

771
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: the illusion of a perfect life and marriage. When my

772
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: sex life with my husband became less than perfect, I

773
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: looked outside of our marriage to find the idea of

774
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: sexual perfection. Eventually, we decided to divorce, and I struggled

775
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: immensely with the fallout surrounding the implosion of my seemingly

776
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: perfect life. I couldn't stand the idea of my imperfections

777
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 1: being broadcast in such a public and painful way. After

778
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: seeing a therapist for well over a year now, I

779
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: had yet to make the connection between my being unfaithful

780
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: and my pensiant for perfection. But thanks to Kristen and Caroline,

781
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 1: I've reached a deeper understanding of myself. I'm optimistic that

782
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 1: this new awareness of myself will help me to live

783
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 1: a more fulfilling and balanced life. So truly thank you.

784
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: I am now a devoted Sminthy listener. I think what

785
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: you two are doing is so important and meaningful. Keep

786
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: up the good work. Well, thank you so much, Katie,

787
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: and I've got a letter here from Naomi. She writes,

788
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: your recent episode about lube has brought to my and

789
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,359
Speaker 1: a difficult time in my life. I was about five

790
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: weeks postpartum after a csarian birth. My then husband was

791
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 1: anxious to resume marital relations after our son was born. Unfortunately,

792
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: though I was ready, it felt like daggers. Turns out

793
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: that breastfeeding thanks to hormones can lead to a thinning

794
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: of the vaginal wall, or so my research said, and

795
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,800
Speaker 1: it's quite common. The answer is lots and lots of lube.

796
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 1: I know that I and many other new moms I've

797
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 1: spoken with have a lot of fear that first time

798
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: after a baby's born, in particular if they had a

799
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: difficult or traumatic birth experience. Having it feel like daggers

800
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: compounds that fear exponentially and can lead to more trauma psychologically.

801
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: I heartily wish that someone would have told me to

802
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: include lube that first time. I can't tell you all

803
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 1: the pain it would have saved me and my husband

804
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: if we'd only known, and lube is such an easy answer.

805
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: I hope you ladies will pass this on well. Naomi,

806
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 1: your wish is granted and listeners. For all of your stories,

807
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: you can send them to us. Mom stuff at how

808
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com is your email address and for

809
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: links all of our social media as well as all

810
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: of our blogs, videos, and podcasts with our sources so

811
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: you can read more of the delightful history of abortion,

812
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 1: head on over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com.

813
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit

814
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com.