1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thanks for tuning in. If 3 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: you are like most people on the planet, at one 4 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: point or another someone has said, Hey, you know what 5 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: you really look like insert person here x. It's also uh. 6 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: It's also often said that everyone on the planet statistically 7 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: has a doppelganger, A dope. Who's your doppel ben I 8 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: don't know, no, I could. I get a lot of references, 9 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: many of which are completely whoosh moments to me, But 10 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: I think I just have to accept the fact that 11 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people look like me. Really. Yeah, Well, 12 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: you get a lot of like looks of recognition that 13 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: you then have to process and realize, like, Okay, way 14 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: is this real or is this someone imagining that I 15 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 1: am someone to they think I might be, but I'm 16 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: actually not. Yeah. It's a good question because like a 17 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: lot of people, for instance, when they say hey, you 18 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: look like this other person, they're not. They're not looking 19 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: at the entirety of the face or the body, or 20 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: the appearance or the voice. They're looking at us specific 21 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: maybe a facial feature like a beard, for instance, that 22 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: happened to you, right, man? Do you know how many 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: people with beards I get compared to. And the thing 24 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: that's so weird is it's their body type or any 25 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: other quality, completely irrelevant, if they have a bushy beard 26 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: or some sort of well quoft face Maine, you know, 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: like me, and then we're the same person. I Uh, 28 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: this is I call it beard blindness. If that's great beards, 29 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: that's great, man, that's that feels like a real thing. 30 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: Uh grief anecdote for me, just how tricky it can be. UM, 31 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: I had UH long time ago, there was this UH 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: store I used to go to, uh, this Asian grocery 33 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: store called UH First Oriental. You know, it's down the 34 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: street from the Farmer's Market into cab and I used 35 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: to go there all the time to pick up various 36 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: things I would use when I was I was cooking 37 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: at home, and me and the lady was like the 38 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,839 Speaker 1: proprietor got to know each other pretty well sort of. 39 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: And then one day she said, you know what, you 40 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: know who you look like? And I said, I don't 41 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: know who. I was very interested and she said Bradley Cooper, 42 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: which is just fundamentally false. The only thing me and 43 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: that guy have in common is is maybe one or 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: two mutual friends, and the fact that we both have 45 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: brown hair and maybe our genetically similar well you're both 46 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: smolderingly good looking. That's so kind man, thank you, And 47 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: just to just to to have to back you up here, 48 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: Ben's not humble bragging there. Bradley Cooper is in fact 49 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: the closest best personal friend of our boss ConL Burn's true. 50 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: We can mention that on it. Let's come, okay, yes, 51 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: yeah he is. Uh, he is with us, uh, defending 52 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: the show against the tyranny of Cheryl Crowe. Do you 53 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: think Bradley Cooper has a body double then, just you know, 54 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: for walking around times, I don't know. Definitely for a 55 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: shopping for him, Definitely for um characters and rules he 56 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: plays As an actor, A lot of actors have body 57 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: doubles for stunts or for intimate romantic scenes so they 58 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: don't have to look the same in the face. They 59 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: mainly just have to be able to look the same 60 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: in profile or like from behind or like from a 61 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: long shot right like when you see photographs of stunt 62 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: doubles next to their actors, Uh you it's it's kind 63 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: of an uncanny Valley thing and occasionally it's a I'll 64 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: say it. Occasionally it's a real life version of that. 65 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: We have Blanke at home, meme, do you know what 66 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: I'm talking about? It's uh, I'll send you something. Okay, 67 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: I'll send you something. For now we know, uh, we 68 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: know that you are the real Null Brown. I am 69 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: the real Ben Boland. So far as we know, there 70 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: are no body doubles involved here. I refused to stand 71 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: up those sir, all right, and uh, and we know 72 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: that our super producer, Paul Mission controlled decand is himself 73 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: the one, the only, except no substitutions. But today you 74 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: and I are talking about real life body doubles, not 75 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: someone who just is a victim of beard blindness, not 76 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: someone who vaguely looks like some other person with brown hair. 77 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: Not the way Casey Pegram, super producer Casey Pegram has 78 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: a secret life in France as some sort of criminal 79 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: mastermind known as Yes, that's a that's an alternate identity, right, 80 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: the same thing as a body double. Right, He's one 81 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: guy with two identities that we know of. A body 82 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: double would be two separate real people who share at 83 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: least publicly a single identity. And specifically today we're talking 84 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: about political body double, which, as it turns out, are 85 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: pretty rare. This is a pretty shortlistical episode, but all 86 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: of them are nice and beefy. A lot of good 87 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: info out there, but the ones that we do know of, Yeah, 88 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: we brought the juice and we wanted to be sure 89 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: that we didn't get lost in some quagmire speculation. Real 90 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: quick to set this up. You know why they're increasingly rare, right, 91 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: you know, it's because of the rise of photography and video. 92 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: So you know, back in the thirteen hundreds, someone could 93 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: walk up with a letter and say, this is a 94 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: letter signed by someone else you've never met. That's say, 95 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: I am, you know, the arch Duke of Hammington's Sandwich, 96 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: which is maybe I'm paraphrasing, you must be um, Yeah, no, 97 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: it's there's actually a story I heard through another show 98 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: that I'm working on in the music space. I guess 99 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: about how I think it was the Supremes, or maybe 100 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: it was the Commodore's, a very influential famous UM band 101 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: from that era, had a body double version of the 102 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: band that would tour simultaneously. They could literally have two 103 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: versions of the show on the road at the same time. 104 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: That's crazy, dude. This that reminds me of Morgan Freeman's 105 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: voice double. We talked about this before. I think, right, 106 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 1: maybe not on Arrow. Maybe we're just hanging out. So 107 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman has a voice double, and you know, he's 108 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: got such an iconic, iconic resonance to his voice. A 109 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: lot of people want him to do a read for 110 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: a commercial or a cause or whatever whatever. And apparently 111 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: the story goes, I love if someone can confirm this. 112 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: The story goes that he has two different kind of 113 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: pricing structures. One is if you can afford the actual 114 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman, but if you want the more economical choice. 115 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: Word on the street is he has like he officially 116 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: co signs some other guy to do Morgan Freeman voices. 117 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: Can't get the real mf you can go for the 118 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: next best thing. I'm not trying to dog on voice 119 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: actors because I know it's definitely you know, it requires 120 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: some skill, but specifically what Morgan Freeman does where he 121 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: basically just is Morgan Freeman all the time, that's kind 122 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: of the height of laziness. Like it's already an easy 123 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: gig just to be Morgan Freeman on Mike and read 124 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: some ad copy about credit card or something. But to 125 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: have somebody else kind of sub in for you can 126 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: get the bargain basement price. I don't know how I 127 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: feel about that. Morgan Freeman, capitalism, baby roll the dice. Yeah, 128 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: it's it's interesting. This is such a tangent. But there's 129 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: also you know, it leads us to one of those 130 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: great divisions of actors. A lot of a list amazing 131 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: American actors are pretty much themselves in films. Christopher walkin 132 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: Al Pacino, I'll say it. Keanu Reeves, who seems like 133 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: a tremendous guy. Do so they have stunt doubles, but 134 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: that's different, as you said, no getting to the point 135 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: of our show. We do have a point today. Uh, 136 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: there are political body doubles. They are much less common, 137 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: perhaps than fiction would have led us to believe. So 138 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: we'd like to go through a few of these and 139 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: uh and get your take along the way. The first 140 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: one was it was a surprise to me. I was 141 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: not very familiar with this historical character. General Bernard Montgomery, 142 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: known as Monty to his friends, had a real life 143 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: body double named M. E. Clifton James. But why did 144 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: he have a body double right. He's a general. That's 145 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: a big deal. So maybe it's military related. Yeah, well 146 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: that's true. So UM must call him Monty because we're friends, 147 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: were familiar. Monty was UM a very influential general who 148 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: was responsible for a lot of the logistical planning that 149 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: went into the D Day invasion of Normandy, you know, 150 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: the big one. So UM they found it. They as 151 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: an m I five, found it to be a high 152 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: priority to make sure that this guy was protected in 153 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: every sense of the word. Ah. Yes, because this is 154 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: deep in the propaganda front of the war. Both the 155 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: Allied and Axis forces are trying to um to trick 156 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: one another with the publication of fake plans. They're trying 157 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: to lay some red herrings and mislead their opponents. So, 158 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: as you said, no m I five, m I five says, 159 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: this guy's a valuable asset. He's instrumental to D Day 160 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: and other events and will will need him alive and 161 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: at the top of his mental game. But he's just 162 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: one man. And that's when they run into a man 163 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: named M. E. Clifton James. Emmy Clifton James is not 164 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: a general, he's not even British. Is an Australian actor. Yes, 165 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: and so m I five approaches him and they say, okay, 166 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: we need you to do us a solid. We have 167 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: a special mission for you. You are going to dress 168 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: like General Montgomery, you are going to act like General Montgomery, 169 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: and you are going to travel around Northern Africa right 170 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: publicly talking about Allied plans uh within the earshot of 171 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: Nazi spies who don't think we've discovered them yet. So 172 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: act like this guy, act like Montgomery and walk around 173 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: saying total fake malarkey plans. Just just be like, you know, 174 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 1: uh how actually putting all of our forces in Lithuania. 175 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: This reminds me of the story we did about Pugel Leah, 176 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: the operative for the British Intelligence agency who planted fake 177 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 1: stories with the Germans. Yes, yeah, just so very very 178 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 1: similar tactic. We had some of you write it's a 179 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: very nice thing on Instagram about that too recently. Right, 180 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: it's pretty cool these posts like cool history pictures and yeah, 181 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: that's a good idea. Shout out to history with Astro 182 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: A s t r O who said that they really 183 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: enjoyed our our account of Agent Garbo, which which was 184 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: one of that guy's many nicknames. And you and I 185 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: both looked through this account. I really enjoy the different 186 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: snapshots that history with an astro uh takes, you know, 187 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 1: little vignettes, for sure. There's a lot of those kind 188 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: of accounts footing around these days, and this one does 189 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: a really good job. So back to James. Here's the thing. 190 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: There was a one little kink um here. James had 191 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: a missing finger, he lost it during World War One, 192 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: and he had a prosthetic that would help him pass 193 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 1: for Monty, you know, and pull off the subterfuge as 194 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: long as he did have to type something right exactly. 195 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: And James actually wrote an autobiography called I Was Montese 196 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: Double Um where he said that the Nazis were so 197 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:40,359 Speaker 1: um completely taken with his subterfuge, with with his intimitation, 198 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: that they actually were considering assassinating him. Yeah. Yeah, So 199 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,239 Speaker 1: here's specifically what he was spreading, and here's how successful 200 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: he was. According to his own autobiography, he had propagated 201 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: the idea that the Allied troops would be coming from 202 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: southern France. So the German forces moved a ton of 203 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: their troops to southern France because that's where they thought 204 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: the evasion would be based rather than normandy, So this worked. 205 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: We It's it's kind of tough to say how much 206 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: of a sway his his actions his secret mission had 207 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: on German forces, but they definitely did play a part. Now, 208 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: this con this, uh, this duplicity was pretty complicated because 209 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: the best way to tell convincing falsehood is to make 210 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: it very very closely related to the truth. It has 211 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: to have a very similitude, right, and this meant that 212 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: James had to be a full on method actor sometimes 213 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: in ways he did not appreciate. M I five told 214 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: him that he could not drink booze and he could 215 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: not smoke tobacco because Montgomery didn't do that. So it 216 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: could blow the whole thing wide open if you catch 217 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: General Montgomery out back in an alleyway, you know, sneakily 218 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: puffing on something. And additionally, the general did like breakfast, 219 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: but he did not eat eggs, and he did not 220 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: eat pork, and he he had kind of a spartan diet, 221 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: so he wouldn't use milk or sugar as porridge. So 222 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: all of that is out for James. He has to 223 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: become this other person like Dennis Reynolds says, and always 224 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: sunny in Philadelphia to live within his skin. Indeed went 225 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: folio on that business. Um. So this whole operation um 226 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: was referred to as copper Head and it was conceived 227 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: in January when Brigadier Dudley Clark saw a movie that 228 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: inspired him, a movie called Five Graves to Cairo. Right right, 229 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: this this actor Miles Mander h Dudley Clark sees him 230 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: playing a British officer and he thinks, well, heck, that 231 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: guy looks a lot like General Montgomery. And this is 232 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: a different guy from Emmy James. Here's how it goes down, 233 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: he says, Dudley, that is, says this guy will be 234 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: a great body double, and so he develops this concept. 235 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: But then they meet a huge snag. They arrange a 236 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: meeting with Miles Mander in person, and then they say, 237 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: oh no, way too tall, way too tall. General Montgomery, 238 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: you see, is a bit bantam. He has five ft 239 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: six bantom. You say, what does that mean? Technically it 240 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: means kind of a small chicken, but it's also a 241 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: weight class in boxing, bantam weight. And it also uses 242 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: its slangily used to refer to people of diminutive stature 243 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: with combative disposition. Vocabulary corner with that and all bantam bantom, 244 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: I love that word. So yeah, dudes, a little shorty's 245 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: a little prince like. Sure. Yeah. So so they say, okay, 246 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: that's not gonna work. Everyone will clock that immediately if 247 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: they meet him in person, and a true body double 248 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: has to be effective in person. So they can't find 249 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: any other actors, and they think maybe this, maybe it's 250 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: just not in the cards for us to pull off 251 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: this coupe. Until that is a guy named Stephen Watts 252 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: who's in My five Officer. Happens across a photo of 253 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: a British Army lieutenant named Emmy Clifton James who was 254 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: dressed as the General for a stage show. Weird, weird, 255 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: so many weird little happenstancey things that happened here. Uh. 256 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: And this guy was sort of a lesser known Australian actor, 257 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: sort of a Toast of London type character. Uh. He 258 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: was forty six, so he was you know, it wasn't 259 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: happening for him, but he he had been in this 260 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: production and they He then was assigned to the Royal 261 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: Army pay Corps and was based in Leicster, not Leicester 262 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: like you think it would be pronounced when you look 263 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: at it on paper. It's a tricky one. It's really 264 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: but it's like Worster in Massachusetts. But it's almost like, 265 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: I think I'm still gonna get yelled at even because 266 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: I said it wrong, even though I said it right. 267 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: I said that I wanted to say it wrong, and 268 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: that's just as bad as saying it wrong. Man, lean 269 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: into it, all right. It's a living language. So Leicester 270 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: is where he's based, working for the Army, Royal Army 271 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: pay Corps, and he kind of did little side gigs 272 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: as as an actor on the side, you know, when 273 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: he wasn't when he had free time. Um that Watts 274 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: and Clark made this happen. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Stephen 275 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: Watts and Dudley Clark put this operation Copperhead into motion 276 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: and it worked. As we said. Emmy James had to 277 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: go full Daniel day Lewis and assume the role of Montgomery. 278 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: It wasn't super pleasant for him, but by gosh, by golly, 279 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: by gum, he did it and pulled it off successfully. 280 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: This was this was admitted by General Montgomery himself on 281 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: May eighth, nine six three. Emmy Clifton James Died, who 282 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: was sixty five years old. When the General received word, 283 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: he said he performed a very useful purpose at a 284 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: very dark time of the wool. What he did completely 285 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: fooled the Germans. Such your Churchill voice, it's no, no, 286 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: no church Hill voice is way more rip or is offensive. 287 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: That's just sort of your general British official voice. And 288 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: you'll notice this guy's voice changed. He's got two different 289 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:14,239 Speaker 1: voices here. Yeah. So so the General totally co signs this, 290 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: but we have to ask ourselves. Did he completely full 291 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: the Germans? It would seem so for his part. Yeah, 292 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: But there this was one of several other operations going 293 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: on because again our guy who's all was, was heavy 294 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: heavily involved in this kind of campaign of deception as well. 295 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: On there was another operation, but they were happening in 296 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: tandem because both revolved around D Day, in the planning 297 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: of D Day and making sure the Germans did not 298 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 1: know where it was going to happen, absolutely where they 299 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: were going to invade on the beach. So on a 300 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: on a one to ten success scale for this body 301 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: double the stopple Ganger, I gotta say man attend, especially 302 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: considering that he had to wear a fake finger and 303 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: he still pulled it off. How did that work out? 304 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: Where they just like the general doesn't shake hands? Like 305 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: that makes sense? Howie Mandel doesn't shake hands. He's a 306 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: reason notorious germophobe, right right, Yeah, he's a fist bumper 307 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: all day. So this is one of those rare cases 308 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: of a proven, documented, successful body double, but it's not 309 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: the only one. Will stay roughly within the same time period, 310 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: give or take a few decades, and let's travel across 311 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,959 Speaker 1: the Iron Curtain. No, why are we going to Russia 312 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: for the next story? Why wouldn't we have both been 313 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: watching Chernobyl. I mean, it seems like an obvious place 314 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: to go, seems like a great place. It's a it's 315 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: a learning opportunity, it really is. Um No that another 316 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: famous body double, or one that we know of at least, 317 00:18:54,800 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: was one belonging to I guess you could say Joseph Stalin. Yeah, yeah, 318 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: Joseph Stalin, uh, one time leader of the Union of 319 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: Soviet Socialist Republics or USSR, and by all accounts, a 320 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: real pill, a real pill and nearing the end of 321 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 1: his life, especially very paranoid. I mean, it seems like 322 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: Soviet culture sort of engenders that overall, like with the 323 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 1: KGB and everyone feeling like they're followed and tapping phones 324 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: and what do they say, confirm or trust but verify 325 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: that sort of the doctrine of the KGB or of 326 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: like Russian intelligence in general, so it basically means trust 327 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: no one. So there's so many strange facts about this guy. 328 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 1: First off, Uh, we still have people arguing about when 329 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: his actual birthday is. He was born Josef Vissiriyanovich Jugashvili. Uh, 330 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: and I am woefully mispronouncing that. Uh. And then when 331 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: he was thanks still thanks for that slow clap. And 332 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: then when he was in his thirties he changed his 333 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: name to Stalin because it means man of steel, got 334 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: a nice ring to the ball on this guy. Brass 335 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: now steel, the steel off the steel on this guy. 336 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: So during his time during the Second World War, he 337 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: of course became concerned that someone would astempt to assassinate 338 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: him and the predecessors of the KGB, the Soviet secret 339 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: police started recruiting people to be decoys more or less 340 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: for Stalin. So he had like a team of doubles. Yeah, 341 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: he had a gang. He had a doppel Gang. That's 342 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: good man, that's all right. Seven given an eight point five, 343 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 1: thank you, that's very kind. Uh So, yeah, we we 344 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: looked into this, and the thing is that he was 345 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: given these political decoys in World War Two, but it 346 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: is widely suspected that he kept them employed for the 347 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: rest of his life. There's also some conjecture that he 348 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: faked his own death and then it was one of 349 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: these decoys in his coffin, which which that would imply 350 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: that he had to have them killed in his place. 351 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: I don't pretty cold blooded. I don't think that would 352 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: be a problem for you. Now. I don't think so either. 353 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: I think it would just be another Tuesday self sacrifice. 354 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: But I'm telling you, I'm so steeped in Chernobyl right now. 355 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: To serve what does it to serve the USSR? What 356 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: was the what was there? Was that film that came 357 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: out maybe a year ago or so, The Death of Stalin. 358 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: It's fantastic, It's great Jeffrey Tamon, isn't it? And um, 359 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: wait does he play He doesn't play Stalin? Um Steve 360 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: bishemmy play Kruschev and the whole kind of you know, 361 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: gimmick of the movie It's not a gimmicky movie at all. 362 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: This this totally isn't an issue. Everyone just has their 363 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: own accent. No one uses Russian accents. Steve Bishemmy as 364 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: Kruschev sounds just like Steve Bishemmy as Steve Bishemmy. It's fantastic. Yes, 365 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: I recommend it so highly. It's it's the guy um 366 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: uh what's his name, Iannucci Um, who is the creator 367 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: of Veep and another political series. It's British polit political series. 368 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: But it's just really sharp, really funny, and really disturbing, 369 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: and it really shows this whole culture of paranoia. I 370 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: don't remember if the Doubles played into it or not. 371 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: I don't remember either. I need to rewatch it. But 372 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,719 Speaker 1: it totally nails that Gallows humor, the paranoia. Uh and 373 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: it is based on fact. We could do an entire 374 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: episode about the weird death of Stalin now that it's 375 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: in question. Uh So, during his rise to power, he 376 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: implemented numerous murder plots against people who are citizens of 377 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union. Anyone who opposed him would go to 378 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: a fake trial and be executed or kangaroo court, or 379 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: they would just disappear, and he kind of functioned under 380 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: a sort of unfortunate self fulfilling prophecy. He was a 381 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: man convinced that he was surrounded by enemies, and his 382 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: behavior created a roster of people who very much wanted 383 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: him dead or knew that their lives would be easier 384 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: if he was out of the picture. We know for 385 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: sure that he had at least two body doubles that 386 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: he called political decoys, but there there may have been, 387 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: there may have been many more. One one is named Rashid. 388 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: That's even now, it's nineteen. That's all we know about 389 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: the guy. Is his like his first name. Yeah. We 390 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: also know of a man named Felix Dadyev who is 391 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: another one of one of his by doubles who we 392 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: are aware of. And here's the thing, Um, it's tough 393 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: to prove that any political leader used a body doub 394 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: it is it is uh because they would not have 395 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: that information out there. This is not something they would 396 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: want to broadcast. It's also kind of it's not embarrassing exactly, 397 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: but it certainly tips your hand. If if it's like 398 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: a known thing, it removes all effectiveness, absolutely all efficacy 399 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: of the plan. Yet so we didn't we don't find 400 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 1: out about Rashid and Felix for a long long time. 401 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: Rashida actually dies in at age, so the double outlived 402 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: the original. But because we know more about Felix Dadev, 403 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: maybe we can explore his story a little similar to 404 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: Ammy James, at least in my opinion, he was like 405 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: an actor trying to make it happen. Right, I'll get 406 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: this though, Dude, Felix Dadyev didn't even it didn't come 407 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: out officially that he had been one of I believe 408 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: at the very least four of Stalin's doubles that we 409 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: know until April until two thou So, I mean, this 410 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: is pretty new information. Uh. And I believe Daddev got permission, 411 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,959 Speaker 1: special permission from Putin himself to be able to come 412 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: out with this information for his own purposes. We could 413 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: like write a book about it. Yeah, and he was eight, 414 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: so what we know about Russia? Though, wouldn't you think 415 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: I would have thought that Putin would have said, no, sir, 416 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: it was a different times. So um, it was a 417 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: different time. And also that kind of that kind of 418 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: information when it comes out is useful for them. It 419 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: becomes a situation where you want people to know it 420 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: makes thee so Dodev during the time that the Second 421 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: World War breaks out is an actor and illusionist and 422 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: a magician. Pretty cool, Pretty cool. So he was all 423 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: set to travel to the UK as a member of 424 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: the State Singing and Dance Band of Ukraine snappy name, 425 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: but when the war broke out, he got reassigned to 426 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: a concert brigade. So entertaining the troops certainly what we 427 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: have in the States with the us O, where you know, 428 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: to entertain the troops, keep more out up and all 429 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: of that exactly. However, in the Soviet military, if you're 430 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: a soldier, you're a soldier. You're a soldier, meaning that 431 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:54,959 Speaker 1: he still had to fight and illusions, yeah, and dancing. 432 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: He had it harder than any of them. He was. 433 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: He was a triple threat that was pressed into quadruple 434 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: threat status. Yeah. And this, uh, this, you know, eventually 435 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: led to him being quite badly injured right during the 436 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: Russian liberation of gross Nie. Uh. His family is notified 437 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: that he has died. But here's what actually happened. In 438 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: ninety three, He's flown to a small cottage near Moscow 439 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: and the secret police tell him that he needs to 440 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: forge a new identity Stalin's body double. So they're capitalizing 441 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: on the fact that he's been reported as dead. Yeah, yeah, 442 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: I mean it's great. He's a ghost at this point, 443 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: so no one's going to look for a ghost exactly exactly. 444 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: So he starts training to become the spitting image of Stalin, 445 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: both in appearance and behavior. The problem is that this 446 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: guy at this point is In is in his what 447 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: his mid twenties or something, and Stalin is sixty years 448 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: old looks at least, So they really have to implement 449 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: some serious like uh, you know, prosthetics and movie magic 450 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: kind of stuff to really aide this guy. And so 451 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: he watches repeated, repeated samples of Stalin's public speeches, of 452 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: his ambulatory habits, how he's walking, how really just the 453 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: way you hear method actors work. You know, we're like 454 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: training to be portray someone in a film. You go 455 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: through every possible archival, you know, foot piece of footage 456 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: that you can, and you learn their mannerisms. You learn 457 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: the way they move and the way that their facial 458 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 1: expressions are, any ticks that they have, you know, any 459 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: kind of tells really really interesting. This is so wild. Okay, 460 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: so his his first gig is pretty intimidating. He is 461 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: tasked to stand in for Josef Stalin at the Kremlin, 462 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: and the idea was that if he can convince ministers 463 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: and committee leaders that he is actually Stalin, then he 464 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: can officially be employed as a political decoy. And it worked. 465 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: It worked so well that they sent him to talk 466 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: to other international leaders, right, that's true. He went to Yalta, 467 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,959 Speaker 1: UH to meet with Franklin D. Roosevelt. This is so 468 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: cool that we have so much information about everything that 469 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: he actually did, straight from his mouth and with the 470 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: approval of the state, no less. Um. Yeah, he met 471 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: with Roosevelt and Winston Churchill to discuss the reorganization of 472 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: Europe after the war. And here's the thing. He had 473 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: a sort of a cross purpose here. Um. He was 474 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: meant to be a decoy that allowed the real Stalin 475 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: to land in Yalta and not be noticed. So he 476 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: was sort of like a decoy in a separate plane. 477 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,239 Speaker 1: Um made made his exit and then the real Stalin was, 478 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:44,719 Speaker 1: you know, landed elsewhere. Yeah, exactly. So he said that 479 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: he had had he not impressed the chief of the 480 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: Secret Police, or Stalin's personal head of security details. He 481 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: probably would have been shot. He believes that, because they 482 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: couldn't let the political decoy story be in the news 483 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: at all. Even so, if the guy was an unsuccessful audition, right, 484 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: then they can't have him walking around looking like Stalin 485 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: and knowing all these sentimate details. Because he was successful, 486 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: he was forced to sign an n d A, or 487 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: non disclosure agreement that prevented him from saying anything about 488 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: his role as Stalin's body double four decades after Stalin's 489 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: death in nine. He was also never able to tell 490 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: his family that he was alive. He could never tell 491 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: them when he was doing for the Soviet government. And 492 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: this was so iron clad that when Stalin died and 493 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: they never and they needed no more body doubles. Uh, 494 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: he had to create an entirely different identity for himself. 495 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: And that's how we came to know the musician Tom 496 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: Waits exactly. And here's the funny thing too, ben Um, 497 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: when I think of a double like, I think of 498 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: them as like buddies, like hanging out and stuff. You know, 499 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: I don't know why. That's where my that's where my 500 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: mind goes. Not the case, my friends, not the case. 501 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: Felix only met Stalin one time in his entire life 502 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: and near the end of Stalin's life in nine um 503 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: and there's a fantastic article in history Collection dot co 504 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: that goes through a lot of this chronology called the 505 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,959 Speaker 1: Strange Life of Joseph Stalin's Body Double by Donna Patricia Ward, 506 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: and she quotes this from this from this meeting um 507 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: saying that Stalin Uh quote again, this is from the autography. 508 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: Quote smiled and gave me an approving nod. And that 509 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: was it. A man validated. You don't want to talk 510 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: to that guy. Probably not. People will die, absolutely And 511 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: can you imagine how I mean, you could almost have 512 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: a heart attack from being in the same room with 513 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: that guy and just make an eye contact. If he 514 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: smiles and nods, that's it. That's you got what you 515 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: came for. You're a ghost though disappeared. Don't let him 516 00:30:55,080 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: see you again. You might change his mind. So now 517 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: we've upped the stakes, because now we have a guy 518 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: who has multiple body doubles. We have one more example 519 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: for today, which is much more recent, and even even 520 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: uh goes a little past our usual caveat we usually 521 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: try to keep things, you know, in the night. Yeah, yeah, 522 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: because of the gorilla. Yeah, so we that is true. 523 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: Check out our episode where we pretty much spontaneously decided 524 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: that I still feel good about it. I am totally fine. 525 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: Who's the right call in our part? So now we're 526 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: journeying to the Middle East, Iraq specifically, this is the 527 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: story of Saddam Hussein. Like Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein apparently 528 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: used more than one body double. Before the war. Many 529 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 1: people in Iraq said they could tell the real Saddam 530 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: from one of his multiple lookalikes, not by watching him 531 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: but the person pretending to be him, but by watching 532 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: his bodyguards, which were around him at all times. Yeah, 533 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: and Um Saddam Um was reported to have had a 534 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: veritable uh menagerie harem. I don't know what do you 535 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: call a group of employees. None of those words apply. 536 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: Doppel Gang is still the total doppel Gang. Yeah, he 537 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: really did. He had multi multiples while he ruled uh Iraq. 538 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: And this is according to U. S Intelligence. So you 539 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: had mentioned earlier, Ben that there was some there were 540 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: some tells that the bodyguards would have that would kind 541 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: of let folks know who knew what to look for, 542 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: whether they were dealing with the real article, the real deal, 543 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: or you know, one of these, one of these copycats. Yeah. Yeah, 544 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: So if the bodyguards appeared a little too casual, or 545 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: if they appeared to laugh at jokes or something, a 546 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: lot of He's took that as a tip off that 547 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: they were not guarding the real Saddam, because they just 548 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be that chill and relax if it was 549 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: the genuine article. Another tell um from the Washington Times. 550 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: Washington Times reports an article called the Fate of Saddam's 551 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: Lookalikes remained unknown. Um was the fact that Saddam himself 552 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: was a big fan of close ups. Very very vain guy. 553 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh this is this 554 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: is the same guy, by the way, who was a 555 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: fairly prolific author of romance novels erotic fiction. Dare we 556 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: say which like sex mysteries. Our friend Nubi would say, yes, 557 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: that's a that's a one of that's one of our 558 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: new favorite idioms or expressions. We gotta we gotta bring 559 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: that into the fold on air. But yes, he he 560 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: loved a close up. He was a bit of a ham. 561 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: The problem is that when you have a look alike, 562 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: you need to keep it distant shadows the illusion because again, 563 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: this is one that's much more in the era of 564 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: constant around the clock, twenty four hour news cycle, you know, right, 565 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: because now we're in the digital age and streaming video 566 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: can be transported across the planet very easily, so there 567 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: are more opportunities to determine whether someone is a body double. 568 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: People were so concerned about this, and I love that 569 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: you mentioned US intelligence earlier. No. People were so concerned 570 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: about this that when Saddam Hussein was captured in two 571 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: thousand and three, then Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said, Okay, 572 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: we need to figure out if we have the real guy, 573 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, or if we just have 574 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: some hapless person who was forced to be Saddam Hussein. Well, surely, 575 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: everbody's don't we know about these doubles? They wouldn't have 576 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: been so hapless, right, It would have been almost a 577 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: privilege for many. It seems to be like Felix Dodev 578 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: strikes me as as someone who made a patriotic decision. 579 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: So did Emmy James, so we can only imagine it 580 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: would be it would be similar, right. So Rumsfeld was 581 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: so concerned about this that he demanded they do DNA 582 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 1: testing because it meant, you know, some of these body 583 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: doubles probably spent decades at this point mirroring the real 584 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: deal totally. And I do want to back down my 585 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 1: previous statement. A lot of these folks were in fact 586 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: forced to do this. There's a film called The Devil's 587 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: Double that came out in two thousand and eleven that 588 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: kind of looks at the Saddam Hussein regime through the 589 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 1: eyes of a double that was meant for his son Udai, 590 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: who was a real piece of work himself in his 591 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 1: own big time and this man was forced to do this. Yeah, yeah, 592 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: I think I've seen that film. So Rumsfeld, you know, 593 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 1: he's so paranoid about this that he demands they collect 594 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,959 Speaker 1: d n A and he accepted it finally as nine 595 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: nine points something percent proof positive that this was the 596 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 1: genuine Saddam Hussein. And he also emphasized, he said, look, 597 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: when we caught him. Saddam Hussein admitted his identity and 598 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: several of his former cabinet members confirmed he wasn't a 599 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: body double, but his body doubles were so um dedicated 600 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 1: to this job that they had undergone plastic surgery and 601 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: they could have even had things like tattoos, bullet holes, 602 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: or moles that would make them appear to look even 603 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: more like the leader. And as I think it's really 604 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: interesting that you mentioned Udey, who's saying that's his oldest son, right, 605 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: so his body double the guy in real life named 606 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 1: Latifiyah Hea. Why a h I a slieve? Yeah, they 607 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: went to school, right and then uh, he, like all 608 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: the Rockey citizens at the time, had mandatory military service. 609 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: It's part of growing up. So at night he is 610 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: enlisted non consensually to be U Day's body double. And 611 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: then he said it was pretty He said Day was 612 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: a psychopath. Yeah. There's even a story where from a 613 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: former Iraqi soccer player by the name of Shahar Haydar 614 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: who said that during a match with Jordan's Um, the 615 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: team lost and he personally was dragged um across the 616 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: ground with two other players and then they were forced 617 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,240 Speaker 1: to take their shirts off and they tied their feet 618 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: together and pulled their knees over a bar while they 619 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: were on their back, and then they dragged them across 620 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: the concrete, peeling the skin off of their backs. And 621 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: then they would force them to get in a sand pit, 622 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: so they would be sand in the wounds on the 623 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: really really really psychotic grizzly stuff. They even made them 624 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: climb a ladder and jump into a vat of raw 625 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: sewage with these open wounds. Uh. And it was the 626 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: idea that, like they would, they would do that to 627 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: them until they won. It seems like really good motivation there. 628 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,280 Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about Uday Hussein uh fighting 629 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: for the Guardian Suzanne Goldenberg. Uh, looks into this guy's 630 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,919 Speaker 1: behavior in life, and he's incredibly dangerous and imbalanced. He 631 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: was a sadist with a taste for cruelty so extreme 632 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: that his father had to say, this kid is not 633 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: a worthy air is a real Geoffrey Lanister type figure. 634 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: Totally yeah on that. So he when he was overseeing 635 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 1: these soccer teams, he apparently kept a private torture scorecard 636 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: where he would write instructions on how many times someone 637 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: should be beaten according to how they performed in a 638 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: losing game. Uh. He was a notorious sexual predator. Uh. 639 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: He would order any girl or woman who caught his 640 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: eye to be brought to his private pleasure doom. Uh. 641 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: So this was this was a place with it was 642 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: on his father's estate withindoor fountains, big erotic murals, HIV 643 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: testing facilities, and huge stashes of drugs. He had another 644 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,360 Speaker 1: just straight up torture chamber secreted somewhere away on the 645 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: banks of the Tigress. He shot one of his uncle's 646 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: in the leg in he bludgeoned his father's bodyguard to 647 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: death in front of people at a party. Yeah, it 648 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,919 Speaker 1: was just worse and worse and worse. So I would 649 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,839 Speaker 1: hate to be his body double. Absolutely, I almost would rather. 650 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's tough to say. I kind of 651 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: want to see the film. I have not seen it. 652 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 1: I've just read it a little bit about it. Uh 653 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: so I understand that it's pretty visceral and a lot 654 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: of this stuff is dealt with um and this person 655 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,760 Speaker 1: is basically like living in fear of his own life. 656 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: Not to mention the fact that he is being a 657 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: body double for a man who is universally despised, probably 658 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: people cunning for him all the time. Great point to 659 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: people know that he's not the real U Day because 660 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 1: he's not killing people at parties. That's a very dubious distinction. Yeah, 661 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: so eventually you Day passes away in July of two 662 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: thousand and three. He had already at this point been 663 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: imprisoned several times, been exiled several times, and even received 664 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: a kind of sort of death sentence from his father's government. UM. 665 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: So our thoughts go out to anybody, especially to Latifa, 666 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: who anybody who had to be a body double for 667 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: someone that violent and destructive. And these are so these 668 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: are just three examples of real life proven body doubles. 669 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: I guess we could say four examples, because you know, 670 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: we're to Hussain's deep at this point. But there are many, 671 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: many more alleged body doubles. Right. A guy named Joe R. Reader, 672 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: who served as Under secretary for the U. S Army UM, 673 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: gave an interview with Fox News and oh one where 674 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: he kind of intimated that there were some others that 675 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: he knew of. He said, Osama bin Lad and likely having, 676 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: which makes a lot of sense being that he was 677 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: so um doggedly being hunted by the US military. Uh, 678 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 1: and also Manuel Noriega um are what are some other ones? Ben? Well, 679 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 1: of course there's Fidel Castro. I don't know if I 680 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: was body double level, but I did a pretty good 681 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:20,400 Speaker 1: Castro costume. One Halloween in yester years. Yes, yeah, I 682 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: have the jacket for it in the hat. It's mainly 683 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,800 Speaker 1: what it is. Guy used a really nice square beard 684 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: and a cigar, and I can grow I can grow 685 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: beards pretty quickly, nice, offensively. Superpower, dude, it's very inconvenient 686 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: superpower because I'm a guy who likes to drink milkshakes 687 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: and eat soup and I just can't. Okay, I have 688 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: a minstre respect for you, man. You have a great beard. 689 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys know this about my 690 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: co host here, but uh, he has a he has 691 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: a fantastic and well coifed beard because of beard blindness. 692 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 1: From the top of the show, remember, yeah, but we 693 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: need to we need to thanks for big up in 694 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: my beer. Um. Here's some other ones that aren't body doubles. 695 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,760 Speaker 1: Winston Churchill was reported and you could have been this guy, Ben. Honestly, 696 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: you could do such a good, such a good impersonation. Yeah. 697 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: He used a voice impersonator, UM, a man named Norman 698 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: Shelley to do these Like again, it's sort of like 699 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: what we're talking about with Morgan Freeman, just kind of 700 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 1: like laziness like he did. He didn't want to do 701 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: those morning breakfast chats every day, so someone else he 702 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,919 Speaker 1: was probably tanked, right, yeah, hungover exactly. That makes perfect sense. 703 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: Then an aid to Henry Kissing jer has been on 704 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,240 Speaker 1: record saying that, um, when kissing your went to China 705 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: on a secret mission to China's have any one he 706 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 1: used an impersonator at least one time? So is this okay? 707 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: Here's my question is we had earlier talked about what 708 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 1: a what a rich person's toy a blimp must be. Like, 709 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,359 Speaker 1: you vote a blimp, then you're blimp Ridge. You're you're 710 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 1: blimp Ridge. You're frivolously, possibly offensively wealthy. Blimp Ridge is 711 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,799 Speaker 1: a funny thing to say. It sounds like its own word. 712 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: It sounds somehow like a cursework. It does. But but 713 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 1: I love it. So I'm I'm thinking that having your 714 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,279 Speaker 1: own body double is another one of those rarefied luxuries 715 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 1: of billionaires in the elite, you know what I mean. 716 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to take the blimp out to the Builderberg conference, 717 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,959 Speaker 1: but I I believe I'll send my body double. Here's 718 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 1: the thing, though, it only matters if it has to 719 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 1: be you, right, Otherwise, it's just called a servant or 720 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,840 Speaker 1: like an assistant or something like that. Right, someone is 721 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 1: to go do errands, be a runner for you, So 722 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: you have to not only be wealthy, you have to 723 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,440 Speaker 1: kind of be pretty damn important and need to have 724 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 1: a lot of face time that either you don't feel 725 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 1: like doing or that could actually put you in danger. 726 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,799 Speaker 1: And there have been many other body doubles or alleged 727 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: body doubles throughout history. There there was even a Mexican politician, 728 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: Renato Trunco Gomez, who held a national competition in twenty 729 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,400 Speaker 1: fifteen to try to find the best candidates to be 730 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: his body doubles, which might defeat the purpose. And I 731 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: think in China this may still be going on. Wealthy 732 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:07,839 Speaker 1: people who are sentenced to serve time in prisoner jail, Uh, 733 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,839 Speaker 1: they can engage in the practice of hiring what's called 734 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 1: a replacement convict. So you get sentenced, you get a 735 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 1: guilty plea, but then you just pay someone else to 736 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,640 Speaker 1: go to jail for you. Must I don't want anyone 737 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 1: to go to jail. I hope no one. You're a 738 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: good person, Ben, you got a kind heart. That's very 739 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,560 Speaker 1: that's a that's very kind of you to say. Uh, 740 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,799 Speaker 1: and this is our episode. Look, no I have to 741 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: ask you know, you don't have to. I I feel 742 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 1: compelled to ask. Do you do you have any body 743 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: double observations or double ganger observations with which you agreed? 744 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: Did someone ever say something like, hey, you know you 745 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: you kind of look like or sound like. It doesn't 746 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,680 Speaker 1: have to be faced, you also maybe sound like this 747 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:55,719 Speaker 1: person you agreed in staid it wasn't just the beard, 748 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: you know, it comes up a lot. It's really weird. 749 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: I've heard that multiple times from listeners and again they 750 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,839 Speaker 1: say that I sound like Dwight from the Office. I've 751 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 1: heard this. I don't hear it. I don't get it. 752 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 1: And I love the Office and I like Dwight, but 753 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. And I've only really 754 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: seen the British version of the Office. Great, that's what 755 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 1: I hear. I hear great things. Um, so maybe maybe 756 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,200 Speaker 1: I can make a call on that when I'm more 757 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 1: familiar with it. But yeah, we have received several emails 758 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,959 Speaker 1: regarding that. Now that's not Dow I'm doing. I'm doing 759 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,239 Speaker 1: job from Arrested Development. Oh yeah, I don't even know who. 760 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,200 Speaker 1: Still reminds me very I'm gonna say. I know it's 761 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,439 Speaker 1: his favorite thing. Um may be aware. We're all kind 762 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,879 Speaker 1: of a big family here. How stuff works. Uh. One 763 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: of our producers, brilliant guy friend of the show and 764 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,319 Speaker 1: personal friend of mine named Chandler Maze, always freaks me 765 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,919 Speaker 1: up by how much he resembles the actor who plays 766 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: Job and arrested Development. He does a little bit that's 767 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 1: not so much in the face. It's the swag, it's 768 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,440 Speaker 1: the man or is it? It's the love of illusions? 769 00:45:55,560 --> 00:46:00,480 Speaker 1: Very true. It's a very big, big, big sweeping hand movements. Um. 770 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,480 Speaker 1: I agree with that. Well, this has better episode, and 771 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 1: I think it was a pretty good one. I don't 772 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: know if I do say so myself. Yes, yeah, I 773 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,359 Speaker 1: want to get too big here. I want to get 774 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,320 Speaker 1: too big league. Yeah. When Um, I have a meeting 775 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,040 Speaker 1: with the other Ben Bowling later this weekend, and I 776 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,560 Speaker 1: think he'll be he'll be really glad to know that 777 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,400 Speaker 1: this went well. Uh. In the meantime, we'd like to 778 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,319 Speaker 1: hear from you. Do you ever get a let's all 779 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 1: be nice to each other on the internet? Do you 780 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: ever get uh repeated comparisons either in your voice, your mannerisms, 781 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,719 Speaker 1: or your appearance and If so, do you agree with that? 782 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,759 Speaker 1: Do you have like, do you have like thirty eight 783 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,960 Speaker 1: people a day tell you that you look like Natalie Portman? 784 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,600 Speaker 1: You know, I had a long time, so I had 785 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:51,319 Speaker 1: a very difficult time differentiating for years Natalie Portman and um, Paul, 786 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,880 Speaker 1: what's again, Cura Nightly? Yeah, I can see that it 787 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,120 Speaker 1: looks similar. Yeah, well that's on me. Maybe I have 788 00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: face bland. Remember the show The Adventures of Pete and 789 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,360 Speaker 1: Pete familiar with it? Huge fan? Um there is a 790 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,440 Speaker 1: character on it called Endless Mike who was kind of 791 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,799 Speaker 1: a bully, and for the longest time I thought that 792 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 1: was young Sam Rockwell, I remember you mentioned this earlier, 793 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 1: and some friends of some friends of ours who are 794 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,160 Speaker 1: also big fans of the show thought the same thing. Well, 795 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,480 Speaker 1: maybe you're onto something. Uh, let us know. Let us 796 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,160 Speaker 1: know your favorite doppelganger look alike our Body Double Stories. 797 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. For Facebook, 798 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,239 Speaker 1: we highly recommend checking out our favorite part of the show, 799 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:32,000 Speaker 1: your fellow listeners on our page or Ridiculous Historians. Yeah, 800 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,040 Speaker 1: and if you want to find me individually on Instagram, 801 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,480 Speaker 1: you can look me up at how Now. Noel Brown 802 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: and if you want to find me on Instagram and 803 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,320 Speaker 1: believe most recently I was looking into the problematic past 804 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,960 Speaker 1: of Belgian comic strips at the Belgian Comic Strip Museum. 805 00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 1: That instagram is at ben Bowling. And if you don't 806 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:52,759 Speaker 1: want to do any of that stuff, you can just 807 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,560 Speaker 1: send us an email. We do have one. It is 808 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,240 Speaker 1: ridiculous at iHeart radio dot com. And of course, as always, 809 00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,480 Speaker 1: thanks to our super producer Paul standing in for producer 810 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,800 Speaker 1: Casey pegram a Bush like a Champ. Thanks to Alex 811 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,120 Speaker 1: Williams who can post our theme. Thanks to Gabe Lucier 812 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,319 Speaker 1: who helped us put this episode together search wise. Yeah, 813 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,480 Speaker 1: thanks to Christopher Hasciotis. Because we just liked we just 814 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 1: like to thank him in general. Jonathan Strickland, the Quister 815 00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:20,480 Speaker 1: can go right to hell. Thanks shot at the Stricklin 816 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,240 Speaker 1: Take the Quister. Thanks so much to you for listening, 817 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: and Nol, thank you for being you. You know, if 818 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,600 Speaker 1: you are a body double right now, I will say 819 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,600 Speaker 1: that you're doing a top notch job. I do. I 820 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:55,799 Speaker 1: take my work very seriously. See letter Folks. For more 821 00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio 822 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,400 Speaker 1: app Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,