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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome to the Saturday Selects. I'm Charles W.

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Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, co host of Stuff You Should Know, and

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Speaker 1: this week we're going to dive into the archives to

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Speaker 1: talk about an episode that I quite enjoyed. Actually it's

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Speaker 1: about historic districts. I don't live in a historic district.

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Speaker 1: I kind of wish I did. I live in an

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Speaker 1: old house from the ninet thirties and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of old houses around me, but it ain't a historic district.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I know is because I did this

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Speaker 1: podcast on them, and just having old houses around doesn't

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Speaker 1: make it a historic district. If you want to find

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Speaker 1: out what that really means, well then just open up

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Speaker 1: your ears and continue to listen and you'll be done.

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Speaker 1: So please to enjoy our Saturday Selector this week all

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Speaker 1: about historic districts. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryan, There's Jerry

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Speaker 1: over there, and that makes this Stuff you Should Know.

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Speaker 1: Say the clock tower, that's good? Like that it's good?

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Speaker 1: Just popped into my head. Oh for real? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't reading this article and doing this research thinking back

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Speaker 1: to the future, back to the future. I'm surprised it

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Speaker 1: just popped into my head. I actually hadn't thought about

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Speaker 1: back to the future at all. But but that's a

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Speaker 1: really that's very appropriate, Chuck. But that is not a

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Speaker 1: historic district. That is just a landmark building. I think

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Speaker 1: that could still it could still qualify for a registry

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Speaker 1: on the National Register of Historic Places. It just wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be a historic district, which is what we're talking about today.

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Speaker 1: Maybe this should just be the end of the podcast,

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Speaker 1: the end, Chuck. Have you ever gone into a neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: just been walking around town, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: you realize that you're in the most charming, adorable place

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Speaker 1: you've ever been in your life. Sure, well, then you've

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Speaker 1: probably been in a historic district. Yeah, this is pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this. We haven't done one like this

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Speaker 1: in a while. You like this when I was fully

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Speaker 1: expecting you to say like this so much. I love

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Speaker 1: historic places, I know, but sometimes Yeah, I don't know

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Speaker 1: why I thought that, but I'm glad that you I'm

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Speaker 1: glad that it panned out. I actually selected it because

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Speaker 1: I knew you were gonna hate it, so, you know,

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Speaker 1: eggs on my face. This is I don't know. It

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Speaker 1: kind of harkened back to some of our episodes we

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Speaker 1: used to do, like row houses and shotgun houses. Uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that stuff. Saw houses, Yeah, yeah, shotgun houses. We

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Speaker 1: did do a full episode on shotgun houses. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: their architectural importance. I thought that was a pretty good episode, agreed.

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Speaker 1: I think we released it as a select recently too,

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Speaker 1: didn't we m I don't think I did. But that

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Speaker 1: might have been one of your picks. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I did. It was Jerry ghost producer. We need to

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Speaker 1: let Jerry select him some from time to time. Jerry

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Speaker 1: did time for that stuff. That's fine. She needs nothing

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Speaker 1: else on her plate besides me, so that's true. And

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Speaker 1: overseeing the largest podcast program in the world. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty impressive. Years Jerry said, thank you. Yes she does.

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Speaker 1: She's aid thank your holding me so super in her mouth. So, um,

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Speaker 1: I think I've already kind of gotten the intro out

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Speaker 1: of the way where I asked if you've been in

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Speaker 1: a charming area and said you've probably been in a

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Speaker 1: historic district. Well, I mean, there's a good chance that

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Speaker 1: you have if you've been in the United States, because

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Speaker 1: there are more than of them. Yeah, that's a lot.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's all over the place. And you might

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Speaker 1: say like, okay, well that's great. Who this is an

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Speaker 1: area that has been designated to have some sort of

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Speaker 1: historic significance. Um, can I please go to sleep now?

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Speaker 1: It will say no, no, please don't go to sleep yet,

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Speaker 1: because there's a lot more to it. And in one

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Speaker 1: of the more surprising twists you're ever going to have

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Speaker 1: in your entire life, it's actually controversial historic districts can

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Speaker 1: be Oh yeah, yeah, did you not read that one article? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I was just being coy. Okay, my stomach just bottomed

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Speaker 1: out in terror. So should we talk about Charleston, South Carolina? Yes,

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Speaker 1: a place where I well I didn't go there. I

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Speaker 1: went to the beach near there. Oh, the Isle of Palms, yeah,

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Speaker 1: just a few weeks ago. Oh yeah, but we were

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Speaker 1: within uh spitting distance of Charleston, South Carolina. Why would

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Speaker 1: you spit on Charleston, I wouldn't. I love it. Bill

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Speaker 1: Murray lives there, for God's sakes, Yeah he does. Apparently

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Speaker 1: he's a man about town there and I think his

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Speaker 1: family lives there too. Yeah, that's why he lives there.

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Speaker 1: Oh gotcha. Yeah. So, uh, they formed the very first

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Speaker 1: historic district in the United States. Yeah, they established the

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Speaker 1: Board of Architectural Review And this quote here is pretty great. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This is the official quote from that Architectural Review board.

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Speaker 1: Can you please read it in the mid Atlantic accent?

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Speaker 1: Mid Atlantic? Why that? Because that's the that's the one,

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Speaker 1: the old timey one. Okay that you're probably going to use.

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Speaker 1: I was going to do an old Southern thing. Oh

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Speaker 1: that's okay, yeah, no, that's way more, way better. The

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Speaker 1: preservation and protection of the old historic and architecturally worthy

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Speaker 1: structures and quaint neighborhoods, which in pought distinct aspect of

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Speaker 1: the city of Charleston. That is, that was beautiful. They

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Speaker 1: actually have quaint neighborhoods in their charge. Yeah right, So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, from what I've read too, Charleston like

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Speaker 1: actually is legitimately interested in its architecture and preserving its architecture. Yeah, although,

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Speaker 1: as we'll see later, there are some people that think

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Speaker 1: Charleston didn't do it right. Oh is that right? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's in the article at okay, so, or that they're

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Speaker 1: overdoing it. That's how I took it. Yeah, sure, okay,

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Speaker 1: cool cool. So but Charleston was the first one to

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Speaker 1: basically say, this is historically significant architecture. This is a

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Speaker 1: historically a significant area you and we want to make

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Speaker 1: sure that it stays that way. So we're going to

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Speaker 1: add a layer of protection, legal protection over this area

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Speaker 1: that the rest of the city doesn't have. And within

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Speaker 1: five years the word had spread to New Orleans and

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Speaker 1: they said, that's a pretty good idea. Chief, We're going

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Speaker 1: to do that for the French Quarter. Is my New

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Speaker 1: Orleans accent? That uh yeah, and that you know, what

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Speaker 1: they're basically saying is is that it can be either one.

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Speaker 1: It can and it all depends on your local jurisdictions,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get to. But historically or aesthetically, these buildings

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Speaker 1: in this area, they're linked together, right, And so the

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Speaker 1: Charleston thing basically provided the Charleston and then the New

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Speaker 1: Orleans when basically provided the groundwork, which was this area

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Speaker 1: is protected, and we're going to form a board who

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Speaker 1: is charged with making sure that it stays this way

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Speaker 1: as much as possible. We're going to vest some legal

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Speaker 1: authority into them, and these people are you have to

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Speaker 1: go through if you want to do anything significantly um uh,

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Speaker 1: altering to the exterior of your place if you live

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Speaker 1: in this area or have a business there, right, or

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Speaker 1: maybe not even significantly depending on where you are. So

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Speaker 1: kind of like you know, plotted along this idea. It

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Speaker 1: was around for a couple of decades, and then this

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Speaker 1: whole process of urban renewal that was kicked off after

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Speaker 1: the highways started being built. Um in part because of

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Speaker 1: the highways, because people were saying, wait, you're gonna you're

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Speaker 1: gonna blow right through you know, the Lower East Side

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Speaker 1: in Chinatown with this highway in in Manhattan. We don't

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Speaker 1: want you to do that. This is worth protecting, so

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Speaker 1: build your highway elsewhere. And then also as the highways

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Speaker 1: were built and traffic started being rerouted away from other towns, um,

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Speaker 1: these other towns that used to be thriving started to

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Speaker 1: fall into disrepair. Some people are saying like, hey, let's

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Speaker 1: knock down these old buildings and build new ones and

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Speaker 1: maybe business will come back. Um It in initiated this

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Speaker 1: idea that no, no, we've got some historic stuff here

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Speaker 1: and we need to protect it. And it really started

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Speaker 1: to kick off in Earnest in the in the fifties,

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Speaker 1: and by nineteen fifties six, the federalites had gotten involved

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Speaker 1: and through the National Park Service established the National Historic

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Speaker 1: Preservation Act that said, you, MPs, you're in charge of

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Speaker 1: designating what's his an historic site and what's not. That's right,

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Speaker 1: and uh in nineteen sixty six they created the National

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Speaker 1: Register of Historic Places run by the National Parks are

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Speaker 1: or not run but I guess just sort of maintained. Sorry, yes,

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Speaker 1: I said nineteen fifty six. I'm in nineteen sixty six. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I got everything else right, Yeah, that's right. So, um,

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Speaker 1: here's a deal. You can be listed on the National Register.

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Speaker 1: And that's really like that doesn't I mean, it means

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Speaker 1: something I don't want to say. It doesn't mean a

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Speaker 1: whole lot. But if you really want to protect something,

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Speaker 1: you have to go with your local historic district. You

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Speaker 1: have to create and protect it locally. That's a very

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Speaker 1: big deal. But we're gonna go over both national and state,

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Speaker 1: which is sort of like national, and then local, which

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Speaker 1: is pretty different. It actually is, but it's really it's

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Speaker 1: impressive that the local level is the one that has

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Speaker 1: the real teeth as far as historic districts are concerned.

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Speaker 1: As it should be so, but most people want to

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Speaker 1: start out with the national district at the very least,

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Speaker 1: because there's a certain amount of cache to it to

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Speaker 1: having your place designated as a National Historic um either structure, district,

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Speaker 1: or area. But there's there's multiple things that can fall

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Speaker 1: under or be um logged onto the Register of Historic Places.

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Speaker 1: Apparently in other countries they have similar registers, but they'll

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Speaker 1: include things like events, um people, just not necessarily things

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Speaker 1: or objects. But in the United States there's a real

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Speaker 1: emphasis on place and situation and buildings in particular. And

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Speaker 1: so if you're on the National Register of Historic Places,

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Speaker 1: you are two things. You're an object and you're inanimate,

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Speaker 1: and you probably are in situated in a specific area.

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Speaker 1: You're like where you are, what you are is kind

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Speaker 1: of tied to the area you're around. That's the real

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Speaker 1: focus of the United States National Register of Historic Places.

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Speaker 1: That's right. So there are five overall categories. Buildings, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty obvious. Structures also kind of obvious, but that could

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Speaker 1: be it says in here that could even be an

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Speaker 1: aircraft as a structure. Yeah, I saw that there's a

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Speaker 1: grain elevator in the Fox, Illinois that's protected because it's

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Speaker 1: an example of the transition between one story and two

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Speaker 1: story grain elevators. Amazing, It is amazing, And I don't

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Speaker 1: want to yuck anybody's this thing about this like to me,

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Speaker 1: like if you can see, chuck, I'm bleeding a little

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Speaker 1: bit out of the corner of my eye from being

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Speaker 1: bored and even saying that since but I'm sure there

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Speaker 1: are people out there appreciate the different architecture of grain elevators.

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Speaker 1: And that's the point. It means that if it's on

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Speaker 1: the National um Register of His Story Places, it is

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Speaker 1: important to some group of people. And so don't you there, yum,

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Speaker 1: even if you find it's boring, agreed, because they might

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Speaker 1: find what you find interesting and boring. Number Three, it

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Speaker 1: can be an object. Number four. It can be a

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Speaker 1: site and this is a big one, uh in the

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Speaker 1: United States because like Civil War battle fields, um, stuff

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Speaker 1: like that Applach and trail. Yeah, the MLK Historic Site. Sure,

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Speaker 1: it's like a bunch of well we'll tell you, we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that later. Or it can be a district,

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Speaker 1: which is basically some kind of combination of those first four.

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Speaker 1: Um or just let me group like you know, the

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Speaker 1: street has has ten houses. Ten ten beautiful Victorian houses

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Speaker 1: are all built by the same architect and so this is, well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to consider this a district, right, So like

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Speaker 1: maybe in each of those instances, of one of those

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Speaker 1: houses was in a neighborhood, it might qualify for designation

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Speaker 1: as a historic building. But if you put them together,

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Speaker 1: because they're together, they form this district, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: the some of these parts form something larger and that

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Speaker 1: connects them. And um, there's a couple of qualifications that

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Speaker 1: they have to meet to to be part or listed

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Speaker 1: on the National Register. Um. Almost without exception, they have

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Speaker 1: to be fifty years old. I think the law is that, um,

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Speaker 1: it has to be exceptionally important to be younger than

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Speaker 1: fifty years old and still be designated on the Historic

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Speaker 1: Places Register. That's right. Uh. The other thing it has

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Speaker 1: to be is significant, which sounds kind of broad, but um,

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Speaker 1: and I guess it kind of is. Because significance is

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Speaker 1: in the eye of the beholder. But that's why we

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Speaker 1: have boards and things like that to determine whether or

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Speaker 1: not they think it's significant to behold things for us.

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Speaker 1: And then finally it's got to be evaluated that's significant

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Speaker 1: and historic context, which kind of speaks for itself, like

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Speaker 1: it did any great history happen there? Um, well, you

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Speaker 1: know it was this Bob Dylan's house in Minnesota when

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Speaker 1: he was a child. Although I don't know if that's

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Speaker 1: on the list. I just threw that out there. It

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Speaker 1: could be. I mean, it could be that's that's a

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Speaker 1: that's a home run. But say, like let's say you said, um,

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Speaker 1: well this this building used to house soda shop, a

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Speaker 1: soda shop that made pretty good chocolate malts, um, and

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Speaker 1: so it's representative of that time. Well, if you were

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Speaker 1: on the board looking at this application, you would look

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Speaker 1: around and try to put it in context, like, yes,

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Speaker 1: people liked chocolate malts at soda shops at one period

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Speaker 1: in American history, But was this the place where chocolate

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Speaker 1: malts were invented or is this the place where everyone

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Speaker 1: widely agreed made the best chocolate malted. It's like no,

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Speaker 1: Like it has a history, but not necessarily significant history

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Speaker 1: in context of the larger era that it's a part of,

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Speaker 1: so it would probably get passed over. Yeah, like the

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Speaker 1: four sort of historic context that you you have, it's

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Speaker 1: not shoeing necessarily, but you have a good chance if

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Speaker 1: if something important historically happened there, like this is the

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Speaker 1: place where so and so was shot and killed or

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Speaker 1: born perhaps who on a more up note, okay, uh,

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Speaker 1: did someone live here that was significant? George Washington slept here?

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Speaker 1: Sure or associated with them? Didn't have to live there necessarily? Um?

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Speaker 1: Is it related to a certain architectural period or method

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Speaker 1: of construction? Like that's a that's a big one for

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Speaker 1: the Park Service, sure, like this is the um, this

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Speaker 1: is the last house to be used that used plaster

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Speaker 1: and laugh for their walls. Or there's a there's a

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Speaker 1: college in Florida called Florida Southern College that is like

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Speaker 1: the entire campus was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. So

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Speaker 1: that is clearly going to be accepted on the National Register.

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Speaker 1: Or finally, was their information at this place that is

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Speaker 1: historically important? Yeah? Or might there be because they can

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Speaker 1: afford protection to say, like an archaeological site that's a

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Speaker 1: known archaeological site that they haven't really dug yet, Like

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Speaker 1: we'll find it right there, saying there's a pretty good

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Speaker 1: potential that some information or history or historical significance will

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Speaker 1: be yielded from investigation of the site. But we want

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Speaker 1: to protect it now before developers come in. That's right.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing though, if you want to be a

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Speaker 1: historic district, um, that doesn't like if you if you

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Speaker 1: want to say like these three square blocks or historic district,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that every single property in there is

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Speaker 1: what's called a contributing property to that district. Yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: non contributing properties are allowed. Sure, Like if you have

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Speaker 1: those fifteen Victorian houses on a block and then there's

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Speaker 1: the one, you know, the one modern mcmanchin, right, that

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Speaker 1: that's non contributing. I think we can all agree. But

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Speaker 1: it doesn't disqualify the rest of the area in as necessarily.

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Speaker 1: It just it depends on um. From what I've seen,

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Speaker 1: it's very much a subjective measure. How much that mcmanchin

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Speaker 1: detracts from the field or the um authenticity of the

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Speaker 1: rest of the site what they call um integrity. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's really kind of interesting, I think, because all this

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Speaker 1: stuff is subjective. But the integrity there is how that

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Speaker 1: the physical characteristics of that property reflect, like on this day,

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Speaker 1: reflect that significance historically. Right, So like if you have

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Speaker 1: that row of Victorian homes, but every single one of

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Speaker 1: them was altered in the sixties or the seventies or

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Speaker 1: the eighties, and the people inside made some really weird

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Speaker 1: decisions and so altered the interior the exterior of these homes.

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Speaker 1: That yes, they were all part of this Victorian era,

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Speaker 1: and they were once pretty good examples of it. They

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Speaker 1: aren't any longer. Even though it qualifies for all these

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Speaker 1: other things, it would not be consider ordered UM a

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Speaker 1: site with integrity, and it might get passed over unless

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Speaker 1: everyone agreed to restore the houses back to that Victorian era.

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Speaker 1: That's the status letter to get I think is I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry you've been denied because your property has no integrity

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty much, you know, and you, sir, do not either.

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Speaker 1: That's how they finish every letter like that. Should we

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Speaker 1: take a break and talk about how you might create

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Speaker 1: a historic district? There is one other thing before we do, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a fine idea. I'm not shooting down

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Speaker 1: your idea, but I do want to point out that

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Speaker 1: UM areas have to be unified, not necessarily physically, visually geographically,

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Speaker 1: but somehow they have to be linked to be considered

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Speaker 1: a district. That's all right, now, you wanna take a break, yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: if you want to know, then you're in luck just

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Speaker 1: to ex Alright, So if you're a person and you live,

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Speaker 1: let's just take us for instance, Like let's say I

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Speaker 1: wanted to get my house in my neighborhood and in

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Speaker 1: Atlanta recognize as it or my block as a historic

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Speaker 1: National Historic District. Okay uh. And the real reason I

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Speaker 1: want to do this is because of the street near

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Speaker 1: my house. They're going to expand and it's a real

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Speaker 1: bummer because they're gonna have to tear down, um a

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Speaker 1: few of the houses that are really what I think

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Speaker 1: are significant, and they might take possession of that little

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Speaker 1: strip of land that you've been exercising squatting on. More importantly,

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Speaker 1: they will take my little strip of land, right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what would you do? Like, what what are you

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Speaker 1: gonna do? And um, as step one took to protect

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Speaker 1: your home, well to place it on the National Register.

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Speaker 1: I would start at the state, uh, the Historic Preservation Officer.

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Speaker 1: And this is a person every state has one. You

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Speaker 1: can go to the NPS website to find out who

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Speaker 1: yours is and get in touch and they're basically gonna

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Speaker 1: help you out with I mean, you're gonna you're gonna

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Speaker 1: plead your case, of course, but they're gonna help you

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Speaker 1: fill out this form um explaining why. I mean. They

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Speaker 1: may say listen, don't even bother, But what they're supposed

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Speaker 1: to do is help assess whether or not it might

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Speaker 1: be eligible and help you fill out all your national

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Speaker 1: forms to send in. Right, they might say like how

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Speaker 1: old your house? And if you're like, oh, it's Bill

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Speaker 1: in the nineties, it's still pretty nice, they'll be like,

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Speaker 1: don't don't bother, that's right. But um, you're since you

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Speaker 1: have never done this before, your dinghis at it, and

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Speaker 1: they're there to help you figure this out and how

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Speaker 1: to do it right. They're not the ones who are

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Speaker 1: going to judge this. A board will, and typically a

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Speaker 1: state board um for a state historic preservation board. Their

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Speaker 1: review board is made up of people who know what

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Speaker 1: they're talking about. Architects, his story us, archaeologists, anthropologists, people

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Speaker 1: who have been trained in this stuff, who can say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this actually isn't that great. There's a much better example

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Speaker 1: of it. You know, a couple of blocks over. As

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, why don't we go to the

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Speaker 1: other place and make that a historic district? And then

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Speaker 1: you're like, no, snobs, but um, the the officer that

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Speaker 1: you are contacting, it's their job to help you get there,

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Speaker 1: your application in in state your case, and then get

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Speaker 1: it in front of the review board who will then

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Speaker 1: take it from there and say this is a great idea,

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Speaker 1: there's a terrible idea, or I don't care either way,

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Speaker 1: and it's time for lunch. Approved. That's right. And this

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Speaker 1: is again going for that National Register. And one reason

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Speaker 1: you might want to do this is because here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: It's it's sort of a badge of honor um, like

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Speaker 1: we said before, and we'll we'll uh, we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: again later about the local one. That's one you really want.

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Speaker 1: But if you are on the National Register, it does

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Speaker 1: provide you with some legal protections federally, so if that

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Speaker 1: road is a is a federal highway project, then it

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Speaker 1: could protect your house, or even better, even if it's

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Speaker 1: a local or a state project, if it's getting any

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Speaker 1: federal funding whatsoever, same thing applies sure where they have

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Speaker 1: to say what's going to be the impact on any

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Speaker 1: historic district of this project? And if the impact is

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Speaker 1: deemed too great, the project won't go forward. So there

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Speaker 1: is there are some protections for it but for the

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Speaker 1: most part it's kind of symbolic and there's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of cache, and you know, you can put it

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Speaker 1: on your zealo page that your house is part of

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Speaker 1: a national historic district, right, but you can't. They can't say,

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Speaker 1: I mean you can. You can live in a historic

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Speaker 1: a national historic home, and you can let it fall

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Speaker 1: into disrepair and look like garbage. And they can't come

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Speaker 1: in and say, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're you're on the

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Speaker 1: National Register. You can't let your house fall into disrepair

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Speaker 1: like this, right, Yeah, clean yourself up. You gotta stain

381
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Speaker 1: on your shirt, get a shape, what's your problem. They

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Speaker 1: don't say that, as those are individual property rights, and

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Speaker 1: it's only up to local governments to infringe on individual

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Speaker 1: property rights, not the state or federal government. So while

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Speaker 1: the state or federal government will have laws restricting its

386
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Speaker 1: own activities in regards to historic districts, like expanding a

387
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Speaker 1: road or something like that. Yeah, if you get on

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Speaker 1: the National Register of Historic Places, your whole neighborhood gets

389
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Speaker 1: on there. Your neighbor can do whatever they want with

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Speaker 1: their house. Still, So if that was your whole employ

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Speaker 1: all along chuck to really keep your neighbor from doing

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Speaker 1: something like, say, I don't know, putting a second story

393
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Speaker 1: on their house. Um, you're going to find that you

394
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: have been frustrated. That's right. Um, you can go to

395
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Speaker 1: the state, But the state is basically like federal um

396
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Speaker 1: as far as protections and stuff like that go. Where

397
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Speaker 1: where the real teeth come in is with the local

398
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: historic districts, and it is very different. They don't have

399
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Speaker 1: to meet the same guidelines a lot of times very similar,

400
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Speaker 1: but they don't have to have the same exact guidelines

401
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: as the national historic districts do. So the first thing

402
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: that you're gonna need, though, is there's got to be

403
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Speaker 1: an ordinance, a local preservation ordinance, which is basically just, hey,

404
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Speaker 1: here are the rules on how we do this around here. Here,

405
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Speaker 1: here's how we're gonna identify these houses. And here's what

406
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 1: it means if you have one right so, and this

407
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Speaker 1: isn't like this is like square one stuff like this

408
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Speaker 1: is what a city has to do before it ever

409
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Speaker 1: creates its very first historic district. If your city has

410
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Speaker 1: already done this, then you would just basically go through

411
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Speaker 1: the same process that you would with the National Register

412
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Speaker 1: in applying to get historic designation for your neighborhood in

413
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Speaker 1: your city from your local municipality. But if they've never

414
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Speaker 1: done it before, they've got to create new legislation for it,

415
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: new laws protecting you know, historic areas. And then they

416
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Speaker 1: also have to set up a preservation commission to basically

417
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Speaker 1: the same thing that that Charleston, South Carolina did all

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Speaker 1: the way back in nine team thirty one. That's right.

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Speaker 1: So you're gonna go in front of the commission. Uh,

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Speaker 1: They're gonna hold some public hearings where people can come

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Speaker 1: and argue the case for or against. Yeah, because not

422
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Speaker 1: everybody likes this idea. No, not everyone does, as we'll see, Um,

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Speaker 1: you have to have in fact, it's it's kind of hard.

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Speaker 1: You have to have, like the community has really got

425
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: to be behind this in order for this to go through. Hey. Yeah,

426
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: in most cases, from what I've seen, you need a

427
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: majority of homeowners and business owners in the area to

428
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: agree to this. And I think even if the opposition

429
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: is particularly vocal and mad about it, it's they still

430
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: might be able to derail local ordinance designation. That's right.

431
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: But it's all going to be considered by the commission. Uh,

432
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: and they're gonna make that recommendation to the officials. They're

433
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: gonna say, you know you're gonna reject this. Are you're

434
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 1: gonna say it's okay? Is it all great or not?

435
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: And here's a deal. If you get named local historic district,

436
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: this is when um, they can say, oh no, no, no, no,

437
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: you live in a historic home in this district. You

438
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: can't let it fall out of disrepair. You can't. There

439
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 1: was this one case where was it in Maryland? I

440
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: think where? I guess these front porch columns, Um, we're

441
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: being replaced by a family and they skimped a little

442
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: because what is expensive and used whether use fiberglass or

443
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: something right, and they said, no, no, no no, no, you

444
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: can't do that because you live in the historic district

445
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: and you have to use uh these original materials to

446
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,959
Speaker 1: preserve this house. Yeah, you gotta use you would like

447
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: you said. I don't know. Maybe they were like, we

448
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:37,959
Speaker 1: don't want to cut down a tree, or maybe they

449
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: were just cheaping out. But um, I think they sued

450
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: or yeah, I believe they sued in order to try

451
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: to keep them. But that's a really typical. UM. Part

452
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 1: of any local historic district ordinance is if you're going

453
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: to make any kind of repairs, especially significant repairs, any

454
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 1: alterations to the exterior, anything like that. You need to

455
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: use historic, clear, accurate materials. Well, you have to submit

456
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: it for approval to a local design review board too, right, Sorry,

457
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: I got ahead of us. So the first thing you

458
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: have to do is say, I want to replace the

459
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: columns in the front of my house because they're falling apart.

460
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: I want to replace them. Um, can I please do that?

461
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 1: Please sir? Please let me and the local review board

462
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 1: or commission will analyze this and they'll say, sure you can.

463
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 1: But this is what they have to look like. This

464
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: is the materials they have to um, they have to

465
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: be made out of, and this is the color that

466
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: they have to be painted. And you have to follow

467
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: that or else you can be fine. They can place

468
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 1: a lean on your property, and um, the penalty can

469
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: be pretty stiff. Actually, yeah, And here's the thing, Like

470
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: I can at least understand this and what we'll and

471
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: we'll talk later about, you know, freedoms to do what

472
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: you want with property that you own. But this I

473
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: can stomach a little bit. And we've talked about homeowners

474
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: associations before. Those are the ones that really get me

475
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: to where it is not historically significant. It is an

476
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: ex urb with seven hundred houses and a subdivision that

477
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: require you to have the same mailbox. Right. So the

478
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: in that sense, having a homeowners association covenant, UM and

479
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: having a historic preservation district on a local level where

480
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,719
Speaker 1: they both have teeth that they can actually, you know,

481
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: find you or tell you what to do to the

482
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: exterior of your house or your yard. The point is

483
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: the same in this sense, and that they're trying to

484
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: keep things a certain way, right at least, I think

485
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: what you're saying is, at least with the historic district,

486
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: they're trying to preserve something that has been deemed historically important,

487
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: whereas with the suburb, it's just they want to make

488
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 1: sure everybody's lawn is cut or that just looks the same,

489
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: or no one paints their house pink or whatever. But

490
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: they have the same aim, which is like, this is

491
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: what we're all saying is very nice and pleasant. I

492
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: just watched Pleasantville last night for like the five hundred

493
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: times good movie, but oh man, it's so good. But um,

494
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: we've all agreed that this is pleasant and this is

495
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 1: what we want our area to look like, and then

496
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: this is how it's going to stay and you can't

497
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: change it. And if you do, you have to petition,

498
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: and this review board can tell you know you can't

499
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, And of course I know that the

500
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: answer to my problem with these ex orbists don't don't

501
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: move there then like you know the stuff going in,

502
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: then don't buy a house in that neighborhood. And I

503
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: think most people who do buy out there are pretty

504
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: aware of that, and I think some of them are

505
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 1: looking for that because it tends to protect property values.

506
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: Like you're never going to have a neighbor who just

507
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: parks like a boat with a moth eaten cover over

508
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: it in their front driveway for five years. Um, Like

509
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: that's just not gonna happen out there. But at the

510
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: same time, it's also eye bleedingly boring to live out

511
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: there as well. Can I also just say that I

512
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: love that You're Halloween October movie watching is pleasant? Bill?

513
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: Do you know how I watched last night The Texas

514
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: chains On that it was so good? The original? Yeah,

515
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: I had never seen it. Can you believe that? Uh? No,

516
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: I had never seen it. That's really surprising. What do

517
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: you think? Uh? Wow? It was it was disturbing. Yeah,

518
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: that hammer scene that he drags out for like twenty

519
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: minutes of the hour and twenty minute long movie. Yeah,

520
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: it was tough. Um, And I realized that, you know,

521
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: I'm prepping for a movie crush h slasher movie special,

522
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: But um, I didn't. I never watched a lot of

523
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: that stuff growing up. But I don't know if it's

524
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,479
Speaker 1: because I was churchy, sure, but just rail answer right

525
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: there that maybe so, because and I don't think it

526
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: was like, oh I thought I would be in trouble.

527
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: I think just like the people I was around didn't

528
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: really get into that stuff. So you missed a really

529
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: crucial window in horror movie watching, because yeah, I can

530
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: see coming into it as an adult, you're like, like

531
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: you said, this is highly disturbing stuff, and this is

532
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: this isn't fun, like you like, it has to kind

533
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: of dovetail with period of your life where you feel immortal, um,

534
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: and so it kind of bounces off of you, the

535
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: disturbing nous of it, And then as you get to

536
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: be an adult you can kind of start to appreciate

537
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: the truly disturbing aspects of it, but it's still tempered

538
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: by that, you know, teens and twenty something doing that

539
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: you remember as well, just coming into it like this,

540
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: You know, late forties is not a good time to

541
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 1: start watching Texas Jainsaw mask Man. I feel for you.

542
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: I liked it. I mean I thought pretty much appreciate it.

543
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: It is well it's a classic alright, Chuck. So we've

544
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: kind of hinted a little bit at the idea that

545
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,239
Speaker 1: not everybody's on board within historic district and for you know,

546
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: getting a real designation, like a local designation where there's

547
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: actual restrictions on you, the person who owns the home

548
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: um can or can't do things without permission from a

549
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: board of people you might not even have ever met

550
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: in your life. UM. You the for it to be

551
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: really successful, you need the community hind that to to

552
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: get that designation. And everybody going in with their eyes

553
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: open saying, okay, you know this is We're willing to

554
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: spend the extra money on wood. We're willing to um

555
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: spend the extra money on you know, a hand handmade

556
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: window if one breaks, because we're not allowed to replace

557
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: the original single pane windows that make it twenty degrees

558
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: in our house all winter long. Like we're we're we're

559
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: going in with our eyes wide open like that. But

560
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: even if most of the community does, there's probably still

561
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: going to be somebody who says, I'm a libertarian, I

562
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: don't believe in this kind of stuff, and I'm really

563
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: not happy about this, And that person is basically going

564
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: to have an historic district shoved down their throat. Yeah. Um,

565
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: And you'll probably not you, But if you are that person,

566
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: you will be the one that's vocal. If you know

567
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: about the meeting and you're there and you want to

568
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: make hay, but you can be overruled. Uh, and all

569
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: of a sudden you are subject to those whims Berterians

570
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: hate that. Well, there's a bunch of sides to this

571
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: coin here. Um. One is, there's a bunch of factors.

572
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: One is, let's talk about the pros. How about that? Yeah,

573
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: I mean one of the pros is many times, uh,

574
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: it increases property values because there's a standard that has

575
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: to be upheld in your house and those around you

576
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,239
Speaker 1: won't be falling into disrepair. Right. And Plus, if you

577
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: are like if you're if you're housing prices are stable

578
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: and rising in relation to the rest of the town,

579
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: your tax base, your your taxes also tend to rise

580
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: to and so these areas very quickly start to become

581
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: very wealthy areas of town. So it's a wait for

582
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:46,959
Speaker 1: for people to basically secure their investment in their property. Yeah,

583
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: and I guess we're talking about disadvantages mixed in here too,

584
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: because there's some people that say, hey, in the US,

585
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: that's can be code for keeping the wealth in the

586
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: in the pocket of the few. But is who's going

587
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: to be owning these houses? Are people that have a

588
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: lot of money. Yeah. There's a guy named Kristen caps

589
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: Um who wrote an article on City lab back in

590
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen that basically said the the um

591
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: inequality and housing in the housing pricing crisis related at

592
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: the feet of historic preservation districts, which is pretty preposterous

593
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, but he did make some

594
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: real he sure, but the I think that his point was, like,

595
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: just do away with historic preservation for districts, for neighborhoods,

596
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: because most of these things are covered by zoning laws

597
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: that say you can only have single family homes in here. Well,

598
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: only certain people can afford really expensive single family homes

599
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: in UM with really high taxes, and so it keeps

600
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: out people who would otherwise love to enjoy this amazing

601
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: neighborhood with this, you know, these mature oak trees and

602
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: beautiful sidewalks and neighbors walking around being friendly and jos

603
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: on every corner, or really good schools that they're these

604
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: neighborhoods shouldn't just be for extremely wealthy people. But in

605
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: saying that it's only single family housing allowed in this,

606
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: no one can ever build a high rise with a

607
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: bunch of apartments that those people who who might be

608
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: able to afford to live in and enjoy the neighborhood.

609
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: And so there's so on the one hand, they're like, well, yeah,

610
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: we don't want high rises here, that it has nothing

611
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 1: to do with the historical architecture and it's a blight.

612
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: And other people say, well, you're also just keeping poor

613
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: people out too, So it's it's um it's definitely a

614
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: double edged sword, because that's that's very much accurate. But

615
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: it's certainly not the cause or even a major solution

616
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: to the housing crisis either. Yeah, and there are Republicans

617
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: in Michigan that are trying to do away with a

618
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: lot of these UM. I don't know about districts, but

619
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: maybe potential future designations, because their whole thing is like,

620
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: you don't want the federal government coming in here and

621
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 1: telling you what you can do and what you can't

622
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: do with your house, although it wouldn't be the federal government,

623
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: and that it would be local, be local, but these

624
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: must be state reps uh and local reps. But they're saying,

625
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: let's let's do away with some of this stuff, like

626
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: Michigan has far too many of these, and your freedoms

627
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: are being squashed right exactly, you want to paint your

628
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,439
Speaker 1: house pink, then you should be able to. And so

629
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 1: some some preservation district commissions are a little more laid

630
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: back than others. Apparently in Georgia, UM, if you it's

631
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: up to you to pick what color you want to

632
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: paint your house, if they repairs you're doing are minor,

633
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: you don't have to have a certificate of appropriateness. And

634
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: then in other places it is a staunches is kind

635
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 1: of an understatement. UM. Old town Alexandria very famous, like

636
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: you can't do anything to the outside of your your

637
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: house in this old town district. But as a result,

638
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: it's an extraordinary it's an extraordinarily charming place to be

639
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: the like, tons of people who visit d C make

640
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: the trip over to Old Town just to go shopping

641
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: or to eat or to do whatever, just walk around. Um.

642
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 1: So that's another benefit of having an the story preservation district.

643
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: It attracts business or it attracts customers to businesses, and

644
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: very frequently you'll find an influx of tourism dollars coming

645
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: into this area too. Yeah, and you know we've talked

646
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: about before the legendary um fabulous Fox Theater here in

647
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: Atlanta are only remaining, like amazing, huge, old school Egyptian

648
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: style theater was was going to be a bank parking

649
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: lot in the nineteen seventies. Man Like, they were literally

650
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: going to put a parking lot there. And I remember

651
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, they had to save the

652
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: Fox Theater campaign and it took you know, uh, these

653
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: celebrity benefit concerts to raise money. Ben Vereen did he come.

654
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: I could see it. It was the right era that

655
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra came. He was one of the big wigs.

656
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: Really yeah, yeah, Frank came to Atlanta and perform to

657
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: raise money. And I was like, no, you can't tear

658
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: down the Fox, guys. That's my Frank. It was okay,

659
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: I should have gone with Sammy. You should have done

660
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: a Charleston accent for Frank. But uh, that's the other

661
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: side of the coin, which is like if people don't

662
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: I mean, there was a time in this country in

663
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: the fifties, sixties, and seventies where that could, that can

664
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 1: very easily happen, and that did happen in downtown Atlanta.

665
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: If you look at old pictures of downtown Atlanta, it

666
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: looked like New York, a smaller version of New York City.

667
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, now we've gotten some of that

668
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: character back. But there was a period where they just

669
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 1: tore down everything old in favor of putting up these bland,

670
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: white buildings in the name of like the future, and

671
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 1: they called the urban renewal. And thankfully, in the last

672
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: ten twenty years, I'm not sure where the idea came from,

673
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: people said, no, you can have the same effect. You

674
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: can have businesses, you can have mixed use development by

675
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: reusing and rehabilitating these these same buildings. You don't have

676
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,280
Speaker 1: to tear it down and build something new. It's usually

677
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: cheaper to do that, but it's much better if we

678
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: do it the other way. And kind of preserved the history,

679
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: and that's definitely become the push lately. But yeah, there

680
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: was definitely a period in the middle of the last

681
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: century where a lot of stuff was torn down and

682
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: as a result. I was on a website I can't

683
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: remember the name of it um where they were listing

684
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: the most boring cities in the world the world, chuck,

685
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: and the first one was Atlanta. What the reason. One

686
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: of the criteria they were using was history like history,

687
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 1: like how much history is just kind of mixed into

688
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 1: the the fabric of the city. And part of it

689
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: is all the tearing down that they did in the

690
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 1: fifties and sixties, but also part of it was um

691
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: late at the feet of General Sherman who burned the

692
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: town to the ground and burned up a lot of

693
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: the history as well on the March to the Sea.

694
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: So Atlantis has kind of had a twofold um knock

695
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 1: around where a lot of historical stuff was not preserved

696
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: and was actually torn down. As a result, it lacks

697
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: a certain amount of character because it compared to other

698
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: cities that have more history, the old twofold knock around. Uh, yeah,

699
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 1: that's that's a dumb I mean I'm not saying this

700
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: just because this is my hometown. Atlanta is not the

701
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: most boring city in the world, in the world. That

702
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 1: was in the top ten the dumbest thing I've seen ever.

703
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: Uh Well, here's the other thing too. I think there

704
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: is a and this isn't necessarily about preserving history, but

705
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: I think there's just been a general return to taste

706
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 1: and craftsmanship across the board in the last like fifteen years.

707
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: And some people may call it hipsterism or whatever, but

708
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: you know, people there are artists and bakers now, and

709
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,439
Speaker 1: you know, handcrafted cocktails instead of fern bars, and when

710
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: they are building new buildings, they're trying to make them

711
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: blend in. And I just feel like there was a

712
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: time where I think every everyone in America thought the

713
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: future was just going to be sterile and white, and

714
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: these sterile, white buildings were going up everywhere, and these

715
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: and the baseball stadiums that were just round white objects.

716
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: And then starting with Camden Yards in Baltimore, they started

717
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: building these old style ballparks and that's all you see now.

718
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: And I think that's just across the board. Is I

719
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: think people are respecting craftsmanship in history a lot more

720
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: than they did for a long long time, like decades.

721
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: I agree, But it is true that that comes at

722
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: a price because if you look at those neighborhoods where

723
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, they are being rehabilitated and preserved by the

724
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: people who are moving in there. As they're doing it, um,

725
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: they're raising the home values and which also raises the taxes,

726
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: and so people who have traditionally historically lived in these

727
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: neighborhoods are being pushed out of the neighborhood. So so

728
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 1: that is one part. It's one facet that has yet

729
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: to be cracked, like how do you how do you

730
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: keep a neighborhood you know, um mick, as far as

731
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: like income goes or use goes, Like how do you

732
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: how do you really preserve that kind of thing. So

733
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: so it's not just like, yes, we're preserving this neighborhood

734
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: at the expense of the residents who used to live here,

735
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: because it's you know, richer people who are coming in

736
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: and rehabbing areas gentrifying basically what we're talking about that

737
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: in our gentrification podcast. Okay, but but that's a that's

738
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: a big thing. So it is a criticism of historic preservation,

739
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: but it's certainly not a reason to do away with

740
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: historic preservation. And one of the other challenges I've seen is, Okay,

741
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 1: so let's say we're going to allow somebody to come

742
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: in and build a high rise in this amazing historic neighborhood.

743
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: Do you really think they're going to be building it

744
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: for low or mixed income people to move into. No,

745
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: They're gonna build it for the wealthiest people, who probably

746
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: have even more money than the people who own the

747
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: houses in this historic district. And it's not going to

748
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: help this housing crisis at all. It's just going to

749
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: exacerbate it and will have ruined a perfectly beautiful, uh

750
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: historic district in the process. We should totally do one

751
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: on gentrification. I agree. I agree. I love episodes like

752
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: these where it's like, oh, what's the resolution? There is none?

753
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 1: Yet you gotta stay tuned. Everybody. We know you're very

754
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:20,479
Speaker 1: anti resolution. So I've read before that people who read

755
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: fiction uh tend to be able to deal with open

756
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: ended like endings more than people who don't, which is

757
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: weird because I don't read much fiction these days, but

758
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 1: I can still I still hang with with no resolution,

759
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: no closure, no closure, you got anything else, nothing else?

760
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 1: You're just waiting for me to stop talking. It looks

761
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: like maybe, Well, if you want to know more about

762
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: historic districts, why don't you go try to get your

763
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: place put on the national register. Why don't you as

764
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: you do that, let us know how it goes. Maybe

765
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: keep us posted um in the meantime, though, first, before

766
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: I tell you how to get in touch with us

767
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: to keep us posted, let's say it's time for a listener, ma'am.

768
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this government shutdown follow up. Hey guys,

769
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: I'm a member of the permanent government in d C.

770
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: I thought you did a great job. It was great.

771
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: The emphasize the cost of a shutdown is the key

772
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: thing most people don't understand. These things aren't just a blip.

773
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: I want to point that the effects of the last

774
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 1: shutdown still aren't over. When we got back to work,

775
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 1: we were told that it took the agency six months

776
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: to recover from the previous shutdown that lasted sixteen days.

777
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: And these things are exponential, not uh linear. With the

778
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: thirty five days shutdown, we just don't know how long

779
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: it's gonna take to catch up. We have settled into

780
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: our normal and just expect to miss deadlines. The people

781
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: we serve regularly understand and are working with us, but

782
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: I don't think the general public gets it. You can't

783
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,720
Speaker 1: just push back all deadlines by thirty five days because

784
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: new work is constantly coming in. There's no pause button.

785
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: Just because the government is shut down. We're all working

786
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: to catch up. It hasn't happened. It's not like we

787
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,919
Speaker 1: can blame the shutdown either. People don't understand how work

788
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: submitted after the end of the shutdown can still be

789
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: affected by it. But we can't just double our workload.

790
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: There's only so many hours in a day. And that

791
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: is from Nate. Thanks Nate. It was a nice little

792
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: follow up. Yeah, thanks for bringing us down here, right.

793
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: We had just kind of gone out on such a

794
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: mediocre level, and it's down level. Well. If you want

795
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: to get in touch of this, like Nate and bring

796
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: us down or to keep us posted on how it's

797
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: going to in your quest to get your house or

798
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: your neighborhood on the National Register of Historic Places, you

799
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: can go onto stuff you Should Know dot com and

800
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: check out our social links there, or you can send

801
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: us an email to Stuff Podcast at iHeart Radio dot com.

802
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio.

803
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: For more podcasts My heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

804
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.