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Speaker 1: Big breaking news out of Idaho involving the death penalty

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Speaker 1: and the man.

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Speaker 2: Accused of murdering for University of Idaho students.

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Speaker 3: Prosecutors say they will pursue the death penalty for Brian Coberger.

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Speaker 2: This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KT Studios

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Speaker 2: and iHeartRadio episode nine, Life or Death. I'm Courtney Armstrong,

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Speaker 2: a television producer at KT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane,

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Speaker 2: and Connor Powell. With less than three weeks before the

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Speaker 2: legal deadline to decide whether or not to seek the

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Speaker 2: death penalty, prosecutors announced on June twenty sixth they would

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Speaker 2: recommend the maximum sentence for Brian Coberger.

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Speaker 4: Calling him a continuing threat to society.

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Speaker 2: Under Idaho law, prosecutors have sixty days to formally notify

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Speaker 2: a defendant after they enter their plea if the state

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Speaker 2: plans to pursue the death penalty. In a short to

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Speaker 2: the point three page court filing, Leida County Prosecutor Bill

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Speaker 2: Thompson wrote that based on the known information, there were

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Speaker 2: no mitigating circumstances preventing prosecutors from pursuing the death penalty.

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Speaker 2: He also cited a number of quote aggravating circumstances in

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Speaker 2: the brutal slayings as reasons his office was seeking the

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Speaker 2: death penalty for the former criminology student.

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Speaker 1: The Leytaw County prosecutor says the murder of four University

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Speaker 1: of Idaho students was especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel, manifesting

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Speaker 1: exceptional depravity.

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Speaker 2: Thompson noted that Coberger acted with reckless indifference to human

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Speaker 2: life and that the November twenty twenty two murders of

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Speaker 2: Keighley Gonsalvez and Mogen Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin were

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Speaker 2: carried out during another crime like burglary. The decision was

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Speaker 2: months in the making, but also left the families of

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Speaker 2: the victims divided. Under a new Idaho law, Brian Coberger

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Speaker 2: could be executed by firing squad if he is convicted.

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Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three, Idaho became the fifth state to

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Speaker 2: adopt execution by firing squad as an alternative to lethal injection.

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Speaker 2: It was to be expected, giving what he is accused

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Speaker 2: of doing. The prosecution's decision to seek the death penalty

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Speaker 2: for Coburger was not a surprise, but it did raise

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Speaker 2: the stakes of the upcoming trial, and the move triggered

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Speaker 2: a series of many legal maneuvers by both the defense

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Speaker 2: and prosecution ahead of a pivotal motions hearing on the

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Speaker 2: next day. In the weeks leading up to Leeda County

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Speaker 2: Prosecutor Bill Thompson's decision to pursue the death penalty for

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Speaker 2: Brian Coburger, prosecutors turned over a mountain of evidence to

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Speaker 2: the twenty eight year old's defense team as part of

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Speaker 2: the legally required discovery period. Among the boxes of evidence

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Speaker 2: were thousands of pages of reports and other written material,

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Speaker 2: ten thousand, two hundred photographs, nine thousand, two hundred tips

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Speaker 2: that were delivered to investigators, and fifty one terabytes of audio,

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Speaker 2: visual media, and digital materials. As the state pushed their

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Speaker 2: case forward against Brian Coberger, the twenty eight year old's

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Speaker 2: lawyer began to lay out their defense strategy ahead of

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Speaker 2: the key June twenty seventh hearing.

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Speaker 1: They are not conceding anything here and will fight every

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Speaker 1: piece of evidence.

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Speaker 2: In recent days, Coburger added two new members to his

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Speaker 2: defense team, Attorney Stephen Mercer of Maryland and Bicka Barlow

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Speaker 2: of California. Both are experienced defense lawyers and experts in

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Speaker 2: criminal cases involving DNA evidence, particularly the use of the

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Speaker 2: new DNA field of investigative genetic genealogy. Led by Coberger's

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Speaker 2: chief counsel, Anne Taylor and her deputy Jay Logston, the

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Speaker 2: new team immediately began to attack that prosecution's case. These

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Speaker 2: new court filings offered a preview of a brewing legal

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Speaker 2: battle over DNA evidence between the defense and the prosecution.

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Speaker 5: In new court documents, Coberger's attorney accusing the state of

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Speaker 5: hiding its entire case.

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Speaker 2: Defense attorney Jay Logsen tore into the prosecution's case, saying

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Speaker 2: there was no evidence of connection between Brian Coberger and

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Speaker 2: the four victims. He argued that there is quote no

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Speaker 2: explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the

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Speaker 2: victims in Coberger's apartment, office, home, or vehicle building. Upon

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Speaker 2: that argument, the defense also demanded investigators provide information about

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Speaker 2: three other male DNA samples that were discovered at the

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Speaker 2: murder scene. Here's Jeff and Stephanie.

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Speaker 6: According to Coberger's defense, by December seventeenth, about one month

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Speaker 6: after the murders, lab technicians had isolated three other male

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Speaker 6: DNA samples, two of which came from inside the house

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Speaker 6: and a third pull from a black glove that was

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Speaker 6: found outside the home a week after the murders. But

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Speaker 6: get this, police investigators didn't originally find that glove. It

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Speaker 6: was found by a podcaster and a retired homicide detective

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Speaker 6: who was just sort of poking around. He saw the

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Speaker 6: glove nestled among some leaves and branches on the ground

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Speaker 6: behind a trash can near the home on King Road.

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Speaker 6: He then told police about it, and they photographed the

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Speaker 6: glove before collecting it for lab tests.

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Speaker 7: How is that possible? Now, Again, no one really knows

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Speaker 7: when that glove first appeared or if it had any

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Speaker 7: connection to the murders.

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Speaker 6: To me, the big question is what type of glove

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Speaker 6: is it. It was in the thirties the night of

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Speaker 6: the murder, so people very likely would have been wearing

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Speaker 6: winter gloves. But if it's a latex glove, that tells

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Speaker 6: a different story. And while we don't know what type

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Speaker 6: of glove it was or if it was even connected

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Speaker 6: to the crimes, we do know that investigators found male

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Speaker 6: DNA inside of it.

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Speaker 7: Now, what the defense wants to know is what type

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Speaker 7: of testing was conducted on that glove, as well as

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Speaker 7: the other two samples.

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Speaker 6: Ran short tandem repeat or STR DNA on the three samples.

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Speaker 7: But the defense is wondering if there were any other

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Speaker 7: DNA tests that were run, because look, when the information

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Speaker 7: from the str DNA test was actually submitted to the

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Speaker 7: FBI database, no male DNA profiles were identified.

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Speaker 6: So stuff to break that down. What we know is

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Speaker 6: three men's DNA was connected to these samples, but we

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Speaker 6: don't know who they are and if they have any

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Speaker 6: connection to the crime.

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Speaker 7: And it doesn't appear investigators tried to do a genetic

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Speaker 7: genealogy DNA test to identify them in the same way

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Speaker 7: that they did for Brian Coburger.

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Speaker 2: In addition to requesting information about the three unidentified male

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Speaker 2: DNA samples, the defense also challenged the prosecution's use of

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Speaker 2: investigative genetic genealogy to initially identify Brian Coburger from the

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Speaker 2: DNA on the knife sheath. Coburger's lawyer suggested the prosecution

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Speaker 2: is purposely withholding details of the genetic genealogy research, saying

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Speaker 2: in a court filing, a massive investigation came to focus

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Speaker 2: on Coburger and Coburger alone. The state appears to be

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Speaker 2: trying to hide its original domino, such as he cannot

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Speaker 2: discover why. It is not uncommon for defense lawyers to

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Speaker 2: challenge the use of new and emerging technology like investigative

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Speaker 2: genetic genealogy, and Coberger's defense team has demanded access to

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Speaker 2: all of the FBI genetic genealogy data used to tie

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Speaker 2: Coburger to the crime against Stephanie and Jeff and Now.

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Speaker 7: Remember when Idaho investigators first found the DNA on the

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Speaker 7: knife sheath, they ran it through the Combined DNA Index

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Speaker 7: System database.

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Speaker 6: However, this person's DNA was not actually in the CODIS

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Speaker 6: database and investigators were unable to identify the individual, but

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Speaker 6: they didn't give up. The FBI jumped in to help

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Speaker 6: and use a rare, controversial DNA technique called investigative genetic

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Speaker 6: genealogy we talked about Traditionally, it's really only used in

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Speaker 6: cold cases. Most famously, it was used to capture the

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Speaker 6: Golden State killer Joseph DiAngelo in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 7: It's actually rarely used in active investigations because some states

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Speaker 7: have laws discouraging it, and many public genealogy companies, for example,

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Speaker 7: like ancestry dot com, they prohibit law enforcement from using

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Speaker 7: their databases for investigations, but in this case, the FBI

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Speaker 7: took the DNA sequence data from that knife sheath sample

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Speaker 7: to a private testing facility in Texas called authorm, who

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Speaker 7: then utilized public genealogy websites to identify Coburger's family tree.

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Speaker 6: However, despite the defense's request, the prosecution is saying that

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Speaker 6: Coburger and his defense team have no right to the

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Speaker 6: FBI data and the paperwork from this process.

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Speaker 8: Is who become a DNA case. That's what it's going

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Speaker 8: to be all about. The spushy eyebrow identifications going nowhere.

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Speaker 8: But it's a battle of experts. So usually the government

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Speaker 8: has a lot of money, much more than a public

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Speaker 8: defender's office. So one of the problems for the defense

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Speaker 8: is going to be to get enough money to hire

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Speaker 8: the appropriate experts to deal with this issue of DNA,

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Speaker 8: because that's really what it's going to come down to.

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Speaker 8: And I also believe that there are some serious problems

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Speaker 8: in terms of the way this thing was handled, in

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Speaker 8: terms of sending it out. I mean, I was shocked,

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Speaker 8: truthfully to see that.

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Speaker 2: Stephen Greenberg is a legal expert and former federal US attorney.

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Speaker 2: He spoke with Stephanie and Jeff Colberger's defense team believes

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Speaker 2: the FBI's handling of the investigative genetic genealogy data is

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Speaker 2: crucial evidence and could be exculpatory.

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Speaker 8: Exculpatory evidence means exactly what it sounds like. It's exculpatory

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Speaker 8: to the defendant. The Supreme Court a number of years

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Speaker 8: ago decided a case called the United States versus Brady

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Speaker 8: A long time ago. So this besides lawyers call it

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Speaker 8: Brady material, And what it means is prosecution that has

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Speaker 8: and its possession anything that in any way is helpful

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Speaker 8: of defense. It must be turned over, and if they

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Speaker 8: don't turn it over, it could be the end of

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Speaker 8: the case for them. Many times there's been a guilty

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Speaker 8: verdict and then an appeal it turned out that there

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Speaker 8: was Brady information or exculpatory information that wasn't turned over

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Speaker 8: and the guilty verdict was vacated.

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Speaker 6: Is there a time when that window closes or is

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Speaker 6: it every moment up until the verdict is read.

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Speaker 8: In terms of when they have to turn it over, Yeah,

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Speaker 8: never ceases. Even if during the trial, let's say something

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Speaker 8: came up that all of a sudden landed in the

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Speaker 8: lap of the prosecution and it was helpful of defense.

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Speaker 8: It has to turn it over. It's a constant obligation

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Speaker 8: that the prosecution has.

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Speaker 2: Using genetic genealogy to identify a suspect is a painstaking

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Speaker 2: process and requires skilled researchers and analysts to put the

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Speaker 2: complicated puzzle together. During the process, it can also identify

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Speaker 2: a huge number of people connected to a potential suspect.

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Speaker 2: Stephanie and Jeff.

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Speaker 6: How exactly does DNA work. Each person's DNA comes from

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Speaker 6: roughly fifty percent of their parents and twenty five percent

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Speaker 6: of their grandparents, and with each generation you go back,

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Speaker 6: the genetic similarities are reduced a quarter, meaning you share

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Speaker 6: about twelve point five percent of your DNA with your

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Speaker 6: first cousins and three point one two five percent with

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Speaker 6: your second cousins, and actually less than one percent with

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Speaker 6: your third cousins. In most public genealogy databases, it's pretty

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Speaker 6: easy to find third or second cousin matches because the

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Speaker 6: bar is so low. That's why you see headlines where

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Speaker 6: celebrities say they're related to famous dead presidents.

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Speaker 7: But in this case, to narrow it down to a

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Speaker 7: specific person, genetic genealogists at Authorm that's the testing company

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Speaker 7: we were talking about, and the FBI had to do

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Speaker 7: a lot of digging through birth certificates and other genealogy

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Speaker 7: information to build the tree. And this is the important

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Speaker 7: part for the defense because they want to know the

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Speaker 7: process from start to finish.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Steph. What they're saying is that if all this

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Speaker 6: painstaking work was done, there should be a long paper

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Speaker 6: trail of how this research was executed, and you would

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Speaker 6: think AUTHRAM or the FBI would have logged it somewhere, But.

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Speaker 2: The prosecution has so far refused to provide the data

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Speaker 2: to Coburger's defense team, with the prosecution insisting they don't

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Speaker 2: have it. The prosecution also says they won't use this

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Speaker 2: information at Coburger's trial because they want to protect the

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Speaker 2: names and personal information of hundreds of innocent relatives on

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Speaker 2: Coburger's family tree and the names of the publicly available

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Speaker 2: genetic genealogy services used. The question is does the FBI

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Speaker 2: and AUTHROM have the records the defense wants, were any

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Speaker 2: of the records kept or has all of it been destroyed? Regardless,

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Speaker 2: this is a potential issue for law enforcement and the

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Speaker 2: prosecution's case because of the Supreme Court mandated obligation to

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Speaker 2: provide all Brady evidence to a defendant, especially a defendant

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Speaker 2: and a death penalty case. Here again, former federal prosecutor

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Speaker 2: Stephen Greenberg.

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Speaker 8: The only thing that popped out to me so far is,

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Speaker 8: for some reason, when the Bureau went through all the

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Speaker 8: different phases it went through in trying to match the

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Speaker 8: DNA with this defendant, and they failed, and then they

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Speaker 8: tried to build a tree and they sent it all over.

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Speaker 8: They didn't keep records. There's no way to attack the

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Speaker 8: indictment that I have seen yet other than this issue.

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Speaker 8: We're talking about about exculpatory or brainy material or very

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Speaker 8: simply put information that's helpful of the defense that the

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Speaker 8: prosecutor has. Why they didn't download all of these things

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Speaker 8: that bureau did makes no sense. If it's helpful of

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Speaker 8: the defense, it has to be turned over. It will

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Speaker 8: be a pre trial hearing on this issue of chain

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Speaker 8: of custody and the use of DNA, and that will

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Speaker 8: you know, that will be determined because if that hearing

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Speaker 8: goes the way I think it might. I don't know

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Speaker 8: who the judge is, I don't know what his or

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Speaker 8: her particular ratings are. But if the prosecution gets whacked

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Speaker 8: on this issue, then there'll be either be a play

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Speaker 8: to a much lesser charge, be a dismissal. But that

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Speaker 8: issue will be decided long before try.

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Speaker 2: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in

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Speaker 2: a moment. The prosecution is likely to counter the defense's

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Speaker 2: demand for the AUTH room and FBI's research at the

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Speaker 2: June twenty seventh hearing by insisting the only relevant DNA

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Speaker 2: information for a trial is the buckle swab taken from

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Speaker 2: Coburger's mouth when he was arrested at his parents' home

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Speaker 2: and the paternal DNA sample taken from the Coburger's trash.

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Speaker 2: Both of these DNA tests show an indisputable statistical match

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Speaker 2: between Brian Coburger and the DNA on the knife.

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Speaker 5: Sheath, the likelihood that this is Brian Coberger's DNA, and

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Speaker 5: it is five point three seven octillion times more likely

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Speaker 5: than not that this is a match.

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Speaker 9: Jeff and Stephanie, we know the DNA profile found on

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Speaker 9: the knife sheath is at least five point three seven

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Speaker 9: octillion times more likely to be Brian Coburger's than someone else's.

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Speaker 7: And that's a very big number.

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Speaker 6: Correct. It's kind of impossibly big to wrap your head around.

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Speaker 6: We're going to do our best to kind of explain

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Speaker 6: it in terms that we felt was helpful. Five point

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Speaker 6: three seven octilian is five point three seven followed by

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Speaker 6: twenty seven zeros. And to put this number into more perspective,

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Speaker 6: there are currently about eight billion people living on planet

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Speaker 6: Earth right now, or eight followed by nine zeros. It's

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Speaker 6: estimated that about one hundred and nine billion people have

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Speaker 6: ever lived on planet Earth. And that's one hundred and

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Speaker 6: nine again followed by nine zeros. A reminder, five point

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Speaker 6: three seven octillions is five point three seven fall by

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Speaker 6: twenty seven zeros.

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Speaker 7: So that's a tremendous number, and it seems impossible that

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Speaker 7: it wouldn't be Coburger. Even the defense doesn't seem to

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Speaker 7: be arguing that the DNA found on the sheath was Coburgers,

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Speaker 7: at least they're not doing that yet. But what they

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Speaker 7: are challenging is how investigators utilize DNA to conclude that

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Speaker 7: it was Coburger's DNA on the nine sheath.

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Speaker 8: So in this case, the only fact so far that

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Speaker 8: we know of that the prosecution has to link this

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Speaker 8: particular defendant this awful crime is DNA evidence, that's it,

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Speaker 8: and from what I've seen so far, that's not that solid.

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Speaker 8: So you know, they'll show pictures of the gruesome slaying

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Speaker 8: of these poor college kids. Defense will try to keep

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Speaker 8: it out because they'll say it's too damaging, and it's

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Speaker 8: and the judge will say, no, it's okay because it's relevant.

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Speaker 8: That will all happen, but when push comes to CHEF,

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Speaker 8: so far, we're talking about a case that hinges on

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Speaker 8: d and we've all seen what preceded the taking of

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Speaker 8: the final swab and the match, and I just think

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Speaker 8: it's too early.

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Speaker 6: You mentioned like the DNA is the big thing, because

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Speaker 6: we don't have any motive. I mean, there's no connection

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Speaker 6: that we know. The defense is arguing there is no connection.

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Speaker 6: That's the whole point. So does that matter.

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Speaker 8: The prosecution does not have to prove any motive at all.

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Speaker 8: They have a motive, it will be helpful. The lack

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Speaker 8: of a motive will be helpful of the defense because

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Speaker 8: they will argue that there was no reason for this

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Speaker 8: particular individual. He didn't know them. There's no motive, there

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Speaker 8: was no fight, there was no money issue, there was

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Speaker 8: no girlfriend, no boyfriend. Whatever it is, there's a doctrine

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Speaker 8: called men's rea in the law, and men's rea is

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Speaker 8: very important here because they had The prosecution has to

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Speaker 8: prove beyond a reasonable doubt that not only did this

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Speaker 8: guy take it and slash them and stab them and

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Speaker 8: all this stuff, but he had an intent to do it,

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Speaker 8: He had a specific intent, specific content or what they

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Speaker 8: say in Latin is men's rea, and then he's guilty

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Speaker 8: of murder one. But they have to prove intent. They

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Speaker 8: do not have to prove motive, and then the as

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Speaker 8: I said, the defense will argue, well, you know, there

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Speaker 8: was no reason for him to do it, Then the

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Speaker 8: motive goes on that side.

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Speaker 2: One potential defense that Coberger's attorneys have yet to try

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Speaker 2: to raise is a not guilty by reason of insanity defense.

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Speaker 2: In many states, a defendant can claim insanity when charged

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Speaker 2: with felony crimes if they show a lack of mental capacity,

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Speaker 2: but Coberger's team can't make this argument. Idaho is one

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Speaker 2: of only four states, along with Kansas, Montana, and Utah,

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Speaker 2: that does not permit insanity as a defense. The Idaho

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Speaker 2: state legislature removed it from the state's criminal code in

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, and passed a law saying that mental

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Speaker 2: conditions shall not be a defense to any charge of

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Speaker 2: criminal conduct. Stephen Greenberg says even if Idaho did provide

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Speaker 2: a legal path to raise insanity as a defense, it

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Speaker 2: likely wouldn't work. For Brian Coberger, this.

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Speaker 8: Guy was getting a PhD in criminology. He went back

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Speaker 8: to school after all this happened, right he went to class.

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Speaker 8: So in order to succeed with an insanity defense, you

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Speaker 8: basically have to show that the guy couldn't have had

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Speaker 8: the men's rey I mentioned earlier, or the intent because

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Speaker 8: he was incapable of discerning right from wrong. Okay, in

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Speaker 8: some jurisdictions they call it an irresistible impulse. But the

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Speaker 8: longest short of this, in Layman's terms is if charged

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Speaker 8: individual was so incapable of discerning right from wrong and

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Speaker 8: didn't realize in any way what he was doing because

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Speaker 8: of that particular status of his mental capability, then you

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Speaker 8: don't have murder one because you don't have intent. Okay,

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Speaker 8: so all this kind of but I don't unless there's

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Speaker 8: something I've missed, I don't see this based on the

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Speaker 8: behavior of this particular defendant as an insanity defense.

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Speaker 2: The mental illness may be used Idaho as a factor

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Speaker 2: in sentencing. Even if the jury finds Coburger guilty and

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Speaker 2: sentenced him to death, his lawyers can challenge a death

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Speaker 2: penalty sentence by presenting mitigating evidence as to why Coburger

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Speaker 2: should be spared execution, Meaning, if Coburger is convicted of

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Speaker 2: murdering Killy Gonsalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin,

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Speaker 2: then he could be spared the death penalty if he

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Speaker 2: has proven to have a mental illness. Coburger's own words

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Speaker 2: as a teenager about suicide, depression, and his rare eye

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Speaker 2: condition visual snow may come into play in the future. However,

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Speaker 2: Leida County Prosecutor Bill Thompson said in the court filing

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Speaker 2: announcing his decision to seek the death penalty that the

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Speaker 2: state had not seen any evidence of mitigating factors such

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Speaker 2: as mental illness in Coburger or his family. Still, Coburger's

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Speaker 2: lawyers could produce evidence of past mental health issues during

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Speaker 2: the penalty phase if Coburger is convicted of the brutal slayings.

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Speaker 4: If you're not going to pursue the death penalty on

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Speaker 4: a quadruple murder, What type of case are you going

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Speaker 4: to pursue the death penalty on?

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Speaker 2: Before Laida County Prosecutor Bill Thompson announced his decision to

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Speaker 2: pursue the death penalty for Brian Coberger, he met with

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Speaker 2: the families of the four victims. While not every member

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Speaker 2: of the victim's immediate family have spoken publicly, there is

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Speaker 2: a divide over Thompson's decision to pursue the death penalty.

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Speaker 2: Xena Kernodle's mother, Kara, has said she doesn't support the

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Speaker 2: capital punishment for Brian Cobroger.

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Speaker 1: I'm not interested in a death penalty. That's not that's

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Speaker 1: not who I am.

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Speaker 8: I don't believe in that, but I do think that

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Speaker 8: he should he should spend the rest of his days

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Speaker 8: in prison.

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Speaker 2: In contrast, Xena Kernodle's father Jeff, said he supports the

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Speaker 2: death penalty for Coburger so he.

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Speaker 4: Can never replace the loved ones that are lost, but

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Speaker 4: having some sort of justice case that's what the Gonzava's

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Speaker 4: family wants.

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Speaker 2: While Madison Mogan and Kihi Gonsalvez's parents also support the

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Speaker 2: decision to pursue the death penalty for Brian Coberger. Steve

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Speaker 2: Gonsalvez has been particularly vocal about his support for the

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Speaker 2: death penalty, saying it is one of the reasons he

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Speaker 2: moved to the state of Idaho.

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Speaker 9: If you come after Mike Child, I'm going to do

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Speaker 9: everything in my power to make sure that you know

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Speaker 9: we come after you.

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Speaker 2: Ethan Chapin's parents have not waited on the decision, even

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Speaker 2: when asked. Stacy Chapin, Ethan's mother, has said she will

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Speaker 2: not attend the trial and her focus is on her

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Speaker 2: family and keeping Ethan's memory alive.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't change the outcome, even looking at ahead at

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Speaker 3: the trial coming up in October. Now, it does not

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Speaker 3: change the outcome of our family. And it's energy that

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Speaker 3: we need to put into healing our kids and getting

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Speaker 3: back to a new family dynamic and work in on that.

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Speaker 3: And so we let the prosecutors do their job and

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Speaker 3: we do our job in our family.

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Speaker 2: Let's stop here for another break. The split over whether

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Speaker 2: or not to pursue the death penalty is not the

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Speaker 2: only issue dividing the parents of Kaylee, Madison, Xana, and Ethan.

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Speaker 8: Meanwhile, work crews started preparing the house where the murders

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Speaker 8: happened for demolition.

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Speaker 2: In February, after Coburger was arrested, the University of Idaho

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Speaker 2: announced it would demolish the blood soaked house at eleven

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Speaker 2: twenty two King Road. University president Scott Green called it

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Speaker 2: a healing step in the wake of a crime that

404
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Speaker 2: shook the community. The owner of the home donated it

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Speaker 2: to the school, and plans were made to turn the

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Speaker 2: lot into a park with a separate memorial to be

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Speaker 2: built on the University of Idaho campus. But now with

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Speaker 2: the trial of Brian Coburger is set to begin on

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Speaker 2: October second, some of the families of the four murdered

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Speaker 2: students are pressing the University of Idaho to halt its

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Speaker 2: plans to demolish the three story structure. Here is the

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Speaker 2: Consolvates family attorney Shannon Gray, talking to the Law and

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Speaker 2: Crime Network.

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Speaker 4: A big piece of evidence that potentially a jury might

415
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Speaker 4: want to see it. I mean, there's sights and sounds

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Speaker 4: and viewpoints and angles. It's an odd shaped house where

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Speaker 4: witnesses were standing, where the potentially the defendant was standing.

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Speaker 2: The off campus two thousand, one hundred and seventy five

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Speaker 2: square foot home has sat empty ever since the brutal murders.

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Speaker 2: On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. Today it is protected

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Speaker 2: by a high metal fence and its lawn is covered

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Speaker 2: in weeds and tall grass. Forensic investigators finished combing through

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Speaker 2: the house long ago. Both the defense and the prosecution

424
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 2: have said they are finished with the house, which has

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Speaker 2: been flooded by a surge of true crime tourists who

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Speaker 2: regularly come to visit. The university and the neighbors want

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Speaker 2: the house torn down before students return to school in

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Speaker 2: August of twenty twenty three, but the family of Kili

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Speaker 2: Gonsalvez is urging the university to wait and say that

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Speaker 2: the school is ignoring their request.

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Speaker 4: And we've just stressed just hold on, you know, wait

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Speaker 4: till the trial is over and then then do whatever

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Speaker 4: you want with the property. But they just they will

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Speaker 4: not listen, and it's frustrating. But if they think that

435
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 4: they're doing it on behalf of the community or the

436
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 4: victim's families, it's not true.

437
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Speaker 7: Stephanie and Jeff And in the same week that there

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00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 7: were these legal fights over DNA evidence and the announcement

439
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 7: from the prosecution that they were in fact going to

440
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 7: pursue the death penalty, workmen began preparing the three story

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00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 7: house for demolition. They removed the remaining furniture and any

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00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 7: other personal items that were left behind after the murders,

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00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 7: and that's the end of it. It seems so strange

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00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,719
Speaker 7: that they wouldn't wait until after the trial.

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00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, despite the prosecution and the defense saying they were

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00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 6: done with the home, Kaylee's family was worried that the

447
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 6: jury may want to see it at some point. They

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00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 6: said publicly they wanted it left in tax so the

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00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 6: jurors could walk around the property to better understand the

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00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 6: events of the morning of November thirteenth. The family wants

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00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 6: the house demolished eventually, but they're afraid that if it

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00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 6: happens before the trial, it may hurt the prosecution of Brankoberger.

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00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 7: However, despite their concerns, the community apparently wants it gone

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00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,959
Speaker 7: sooner than later. According to Shannon Gray, Kaylee's family lawyer,

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00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 7: the university basically said that we hear you, we get

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00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 7: your concerns, but we are in fact going to move

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00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 7: forward with the demolition because it's good for the community.

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00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 6: I understand the feeling of wanting the site of such

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00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 6: a tragedy gone as soon as possible, but if even

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00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 6: just one juror is suayed in either direction by seeing

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00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 6: this house, then they need to leave it up. Justice

462
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 6: is the number one goal here, and it seems shortsighted

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00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 6: to potentially get rid of this huge part of the

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00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 6: case forever.

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00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 7: We've seen this happen before. In fact, in our other podcast,

466
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 7: The piked In Massacre, we saw that the homes where

467
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 7: those murders happened were also infamously moved into a warehouse,

468
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 7: which caused lots of controversy. Can you imagine if they

469
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 7: had just torn them down. It seems like they would

470
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 7: be destroying an active crime scene. And also in that case,

471
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 7: the jurors all went to the location of the crimes.

472
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 7: That was a big part of the pregame to the trial.

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00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, Steh, that's a good point because as Coburger's movements

474
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 6: on the night in question are very relevant, it stands

475
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 6: to reason that the same sort of thing might happen

476
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 6: for this case.

477
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: The next hearing in the case of Idaho versus Brian

478
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: Coburger is set for Tuesday, June twenty seventh. Many of

479
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 2: these issues could be settled after this important hearing, but

480
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: the trial could also be pushed back to provide more

481
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: time to decide these issues and because Brian Coberger's life

482
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 2: is now at stake. More on that next time. For

483
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 2: more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us

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00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 2: on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Idaho Masacre is

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00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 2: produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, Connor Powell, Chris Bargo,

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00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 2: Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed

487
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,959
Speaker 2: by Jeff Toi. Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Massacre

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00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: is a production of iHeart Radio and Kat's Studios. For

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00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

490
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 10: I'm Diana, you may know as Body Movin, My Friend

492
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 10: and I. John Green were featured in the Netflix documentary

493
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 10: Don't f with Cats. On our new podcast, True Crimes

494
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 10: of John and Deiana were turning our online investigative skills

495
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 10: to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and most ignored cases.

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00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 2: Please say.

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00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 6: Thirty three year old bride Again was shot dead.

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00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 5: Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.

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00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 7: Detectives confirmed that it was at targeted attack.

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00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 9: It appears to be an execution style assassination.

501
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: This is very active, so we have to be careful.

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00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 7: I've heard that there's a house that has some bodies

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00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 7: in the basement.

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00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: I knew.

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00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 10: I just knew something was wrong.

506
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 6: Maybe there's something more sinister at play than just one

507
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 6: young girl going missing. If you know something, heard something,

508
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 6: please it's never too late.

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00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 4: To do the right thing.

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00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 10: This is true crimes with John and Deianna, the.

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00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 6: Production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 9: Justice is something that takes different shapes or formed