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Speaker 1: Welcome back to is this a great game or what?

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Speaker 1: And our guest is former major league catcher John Baker,

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Speaker 1: who was a really good player, and he's a better

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Speaker 1: writer than I am. He's got a vocabulary that absolutely

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Speaker 1: dwarfs mine.

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Speaker 2: John.

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Speaker 1: This this is my friend, this is my son, Jeff.

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Speaker 1: He's got my voice, he's got my height, but he's

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Speaker 1: way more talented than I have.

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Speaker 2: That's that. That seems to be it.

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Speaker 3: That seems to be some common uh, some common humility

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Speaker 3: out of you.

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Speaker 1: Tim.

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Speaker 2: I I appreciate it, Jeff nicely.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's start with a hat. John, you got an

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Speaker 1: exposed hat on what's that? What's that all about? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well I never got to play against the Expos,

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Speaker 3: and so this year I celebrated in in December, my

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Speaker 3: wife and I celebrated our twentieth wedding anniversary. And Montreal

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Speaker 3: was a never was a city that we never got

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Speaker 3: to go to. It was out of the National League

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Speaker 3: by the time I got to the big leagues, and

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Speaker 3: so we went and it was absolutely incredible. And as

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Speaker 3: we were walking through, I said, you know this, I've

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Speaker 3: always loved this Expos clown hat. And if I'm going

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Speaker 3: to purchase one. I'm going to purchase one at the

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Speaker 3: root of where the Montreal Expos are from. So I

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Speaker 3: bought it in Montreal and it's one of my favorite

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Speaker 3: hats to wear. Also, not being affiliated with a baseball

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Speaker 3: team anymore, it's a great way to celebrate the beauty

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Speaker 3: of baseball without having to have some sort of a

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Speaker 3: rooted interest anywhere.

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Speaker 1: Well, John, to that end, this was your first spring

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Speaker 1: training in twenty five years where you were not there.

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Speaker 1: First off, what did you do this spring and what

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Speaker 1: was it like not wearing a uniform in spring training

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Speaker 1: for the first time in a quarter century.

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Speaker 2: It was a yeah, good question.

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Speaker 3: It was definitely a strange feeling, but one that I felt,

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Speaker 3: I think validated in this year being able to spend time.

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Speaker 3: You know, my kids are getting older. My oldest daughter's

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Speaker 3: in high school now, my younger daughter is middle school.

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Speaker 3: And my life has been on the road I think

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Speaker 3: since I was about at eighteen. You know, you go

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Speaker 3: to college, play baseball and then hit the road. I

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Speaker 3: played in Cape Cod for two seasons while I was

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Speaker 3: playing at cal and you know, I basically left at

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Speaker 3: eighteen and never came back. And it's been a constant

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Speaker 3: series of airplane flights to airplane flights, and hotels to

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Speaker 3: hotels for.

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Speaker 2: The last twenty five years.

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Speaker 3: So it felt really nice just to do stuff like

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Speaker 3: chopped potatoes, watch television.

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Speaker 2: Shows that I've never seen. I've never had the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to see.

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Speaker 3: I watched, I got to and you know, my kids

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Speaker 3: are old enough now that we can kind of like

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Speaker 3: share some of the same interests. So on one of

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Speaker 3: the highlights this year of spring training was being able

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Speaker 3: to watch all of the Stranger Things with my daughters.

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Speaker 2: That was that was a massive highlight.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I'll take it from here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I and the music band and everything else, so plained.

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Speaker 4: I was just going to ask you what shows are

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Speaker 4: you watching? Because we find a lot of the time

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Speaker 4: with our guests that when they finally have a moment

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Speaker 4: a season an off season to slow down, they try

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Speaker 4: to catch up on shows Stranger Things. So did you

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Speaker 4: start at the very beginning?

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Speaker 2: Dad?

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Speaker 4: For a perspective, Netflix has had this show for like,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's like ten years at this point,

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Speaker 4: and you started in twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, so we my wife and I watched the

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Speaker 3: original show and then you know, we were in the

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Speaker 3: Little Kid phase where like some monster running through the

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Speaker 3: room is going to be impossible to have on because

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Speaker 3: now you've got nightmares to deal with, right, But then

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Speaker 3: the kids got old enough to be able to watch it,

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Speaker 3: and so my daughter loves film and acting. She was

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Speaker 3: telling me the story behind the you know, and Tim

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Speaker 3: and I talk about this stuff in the past, but

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Speaker 3: I'm a big fan of like, I want to know

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Speaker 3: the story behind what's going on. I want to know

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Speaker 3: more of the context. I want to know about the

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Speaker 3: people that are doing it, not just the thing that happens.

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Speaker 3: And so she was telling me about the Duffer brothers

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Speaker 3: and how they had this passion to make movies and

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Speaker 3: they loved eighties movies. And anybody who's in their mid

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Speaker 3: forties grew up in the United States has like me

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Speaker 3: and played sports, has seen every of all of those

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Speaker 3: John Cloud, Van Damn, Arnold Schwartzigger, Sylvester Stallone. I've seen

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Speaker 3: every single movie from Cobra to The Terminator. And then

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Speaker 3: to find out that they wanted to build this homage

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Speaker 3: to all these great movies and didn't. I wasn't looking

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Speaker 3: at it through that lens when I was watching it,

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Speaker 3: but being able to watch it again, so we'd watched

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Speaker 3: the first season, we started at season two, and I

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Speaker 3: think we watched two, three, four, and five in the.

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Speaker 2: Span of like a week as a as a family.

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Speaker 3: We had some downtime and we just we just we

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Speaker 3: just buckled up and watched four or five episodes in

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Speaker 3: a row. And I was blown away to be able

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Speaker 3: to watch it like that. An incredible story and then

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Speaker 3: again the history behind it, watching.

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Speaker 2: A cast of characters grow up.

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Speaker 3: It kind of reminded me of some of the stuff

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Speaker 3: I've seen in baseball, especially in this last job where

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Speaker 3: you get into, for example, working with the Pirates in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, having like Jared Jones and drafting Bubba

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Speaker 3: Chandler and Andy Rodriguez and seeing these kids start like

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Speaker 3: in the co Complex and then see them five six

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Speaker 3: years later in the major leagues. There is some parallel

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Speaker 3: there to watching that cast of kids essentially grow up

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Speaker 3: over the course of ten years. And again, like, those

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Speaker 3: are the stories that I love, and it's just incredibly

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Speaker 3: well done, and I recommend it to everybody.

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Speaker 1: Right John, Like Cody Bellinger said not long ago, he'd

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Speaker 1: never seen a Seinfeld episode ever, which I found impossible

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Speaker 1: to believe. Have you watched a TV show beyond Stranger

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Speaker 1: things like a sitcom that everyone else has seen and

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Speaker 1: you said, hey, I finally got to see this, or

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Speaker 1: have you done anything?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that no, that was well, that was one

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Speaker 2: of them.

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Speaker 3: And then we also watched The Queen's Gambit, but it like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: the Queen's Gambit. And then you know, I've always been

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Speaker 3: an avid reader, and I finally got the time to

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Speaker 3: sit with some of the stuff that I hadn't been

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Speaker 3: able to like fully process while while all the work stuff.

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Speaker 2: Was going on.

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Speaker 3: This is I'm going to pull out my first NERD

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Speaker 3: card of this interview and say that I got to

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Speaker 3: spend a lot of time with some Dostievsky which I've

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Speaker 3: never gone through before. And there's a joke that we

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Speaker 3: have in our family because I was reading one of

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Speaker 3: Dostievsky's books and I'm reading it and I'm going, man

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Speaker 3: like this like earnest approach that this character has to

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Speaker 3: every situation. It reminds me so much of myself. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: this is the most I've ever self identified with a

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Speaker 3: character in a book. And my oldest daughter said, well,

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Speaker 3: what's the title of the book, And I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: it's it's.

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Speaker 2: Called the Idiot. I don't know if it's good or bad.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're reading this in.

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Speaker 3: These like nineteenth century Russian novel and you're going like, man,

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Speaker 3: I really can relate to what this guy is going through,

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Speaker 3: like earnestly wanting to show up and win and do

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Speaker 3: the right thing, but then it always continues to go

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Speaker 3: wrong over and over again. And I'm like, this sounds

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Speaker 3: a lot like a baseball career in a way. You know,

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Speaker 3: you work so hard to get it right and you

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Speaker 3: just never actually figure it out, and over time you

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Speaker 3: have to accept that it is that process.

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Speaker 2: You know. People love to say people love to say.

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Speaker 3: Trust the process. It's very common quote in sports, trust

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Speaker 3: the process. And I was always as a player, I'm

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Speaker 3: going like, what the.

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Speaker 2: Hell is the process? Like what is it?

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Speaker 3: What is this thing that I'm supposed to trust? And

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Speaker 3: then it's only until you get on the other side

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Speaker 3: that you look back and you go, oh, part of

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Speaker 3: the process is the realization and the acceptance that you

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Speaker 3: never get to figure this out and that that's okay,

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Speaker 3: and that's okay, and it's okay to just strive without

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Speaker 3: having to see the thing at the end, And yes,

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Speaker 3: it helps to be validated to do something like playing

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Speaker 3: the major leagues, but it's more. But sports are always

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Speaker 3: going to be more than that. They're always going to

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Speaker 3: be a deeper story and there's always going to be

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Speaker 3: something that you can learn about yourself. So yes, a

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Speaker 3: lot of heavy reading. And then I think the last

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Speaker 3: thing I've been focused on building, you know, taking what

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Speaker 3: I've learned over the last twenty five years and finding

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Speaker 3: a way to say, Okay, what are these things that

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Speaker 3: were what are the things that work? Not only that

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Speaker 3: I learned from experientially, but then also academically after I

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Speaker 3: stopped playing, because I went back and finished my undergrad

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Speaker 3: and went to graduate school, got a degree in performance psychology,

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Speaker 3: and you know, it was working in the mental skill space,

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Speaker 3: which was for me, my favorite work by far to

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Speaker 3: do post playing. I had fun as a farm director,

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Speaker 3: I had fun overseeing our performance department with the Pirates

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Speaker 3: in the VP role, but my favorite, like the most

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Speaker 3: fulfilling work was the one on one work I got

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Speaker 3: to do with the players when I was working with

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Speaker 3: the cubs in the mental skills department, and.

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Speaker 2: I thought, okay, now I have some time to be.

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Speaker 3: Able to figure some of this stuff out, like what

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Speaker 3: really is the message that I want to get out

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Speaker 3: to people? And how can I impact people and help

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Speaker 3: them kind of shortcut some of these things that I

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Speaker 3: see players go through over and over again. How do

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Speaker 3: they figure out who they are? How do they train

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Speaker 3: their attention system, how do they develop the right rituals

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Speaker 3: meaning kind of routines that are actually infused with meaning

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Speaker 3: so that they can perform really well? And how do

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Speaker 3: they get the most out of their sports experience. And

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Speaker 3: this isn't just at the professional level for me, because

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Speaker 3: I think that these principles are really ingrained and they're

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Speaker 3: most effectively grained when we're like twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old.

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Speaker 2: And we can get into this if you guys want.

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Speaker 3: But what I've noticed, and I'm going to, like we

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Speaker 3: said earlier'm going to go see these flight football games later.

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Speaker 3: But what I've noticed as I started working with some

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Speaker 3: of the younger people is that man like the same

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Speaker 3: complaints that I would have about professional baseball, the overreaches

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Speaker 3: of empiricism, the idea that we know everything and we

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Speaker 3: can break everything down to the smallest little bit and

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Speaker 3: then put it back together. It's just the same thing

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Speaker 3: without the context of who the human being is. That

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Speaker 3: is like really seeped into youth sports ranking systems and

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Speaker 3: money and stuff, and I'm like, that's not That is

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Speaker 3: not what youth sports, or that's not what sports in

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Speaker 3: general is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be

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Speaker 3: about the people working together and training really hard and

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Speaker 3: building camaraderie and trying to accomplish the really difficult thing.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's this element of selflessness to it that

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Speaker 3: when you commoditize every person and you make every individual

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Speaker 3: thing that they do into some sort of asset profile

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Speaker 3: of them, I think you really lose the essence of

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Speaker 3: what we're trying to or what sports is supposed to

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Speaker 3: teach us.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, I've been working through that.

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Speaker 4: Having fun. You know, we talk about youth sports so

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Speaker 4: much on our podcast, and I feel like a lot

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Speaker 4: of the times the fun gets lost in it. And

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Speaker 4: these kids, by the time they turn eighteen nineteen, they've

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Speaker 4: pitched ten thousand innings, they've never played in the outfield,

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Speaker 4: they're exhausted, they don't play any other sports, and they're

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Speaker 4: getting Tommy John and it's ridiculous. Right, we need to

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Speaker 4: find those times We've interviewed so many amazing guests, and

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Speaker 4: we work with a group called Game Changer who does

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Speaker 4: all of the you know, the live streaming of games.

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Speaker 4: And we need to kind of now back away from

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Speaker 4: the world of numbers for our youth, for our kids,

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Speaker 4: let them play multiple sports and find the fun in

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Speaker 4: the game again. So I think it's awesome what you're saying,

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Speaker 4: because it's right. And you're going to flag football today

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Speaker 4: for your nieces and women's flag football. That's awesome. How

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Speaker 4: old are.

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Speaker 2: They they are? Let's see, they're like eight and eleven.

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Speaker 2: And you know, you brought up the word fun.

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Speaker 3: And if you look at the research, and this is

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Speaker 3: the thing, I think a lot of people this information

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Speaker 3: doesn't seem to be like prevalently out there for people.

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Speaker 3: But when you look at the research, and this is

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Speaker 3: like sports psychology one on one original textbook that you

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Speaker 3: get when you sign up to go do a graduate

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Speaker 3: program like that, you start reading through it and you go, oh,

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Speaker 3: what's the number one factor in the sampling age? So

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Speaker 3: gene Cote sampling ages up until twelve or thirteen is

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Speaker 3: called sampling. You know, they have they she's they have

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Speaker 3: excuse me, they have taken different age groups, and you

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Speaker 3: know from sampling to specialization to professionalization over time. But

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Speaker 3: the sampling age there's only one metric that matters. It

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Speaker 3: has nothing to do with how much how many games

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Speaker 3: the kids won, or how hard they were hitting the ball,

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Speaker 3: or what their what their velocities were when they were

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Speaker 3: pitching up until twelve or thirteen. The only metric that

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Speaker 3: matters if you want your kid to play in the

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Speaker 3: major leagues, you want your kid to be an Olympic

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Speaker 3: athlete or some high performer in a sports field. The

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Speaker 3: only metric that matters is fun. That's the only thing.

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Speaker 2: It had.

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Speaker 3: Nothing else matters. Seventy percent of kids in the United

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Speaker 3: States quit sports before the time there before their thirteenth birthday,

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Speaker 3: and the number one reason it's it wasn't fun. It

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Speaker 3: wasn't fun.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And I think about it in terms of like, what

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Speaker 3: are our roles as parents or if we're going to

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Speaker 3: coach you sports teams, what are our metrics? What are

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Speaker 3: our objectives that we should be trying to achieve? And

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Speaker 3: we completely missed when we start saying, well, he's the

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Speaker 3: fifty second best shortstop in Northern California and he went

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Speaker 3: to this showcase, and he hit the ball one hundred

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Speaker 3: and two, so therefore now he's the forty third best shortstop.

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Speaker 3: We missed the point we could completely like strike three,

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Speaker 3: like this is abs right down the middle. We called

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Speaker 3: it a ball. I'm going to challenge it right now.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to challenge it.

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Speaker 2: It's a strike.

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Speaker 3: Fun is the most important metric, and we can't let

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Speaker 3: that go because when you have fun, if you think

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Speaker 3: about why, in my opinion, when you think about why,

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Speaker 3: if I'm having fun and I remember like my time

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Speaker 3: here because I'm back in the barrier, but I remember

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Speaker 3: my time here playing for the Walnut Creek Little League

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Speaker 3: Angels and the guys that I had on my team.

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Speaker 2: I'm still in touch with some of them.

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Speaker 3: And when you think about when you think about those

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Speaker 3: times when it's fun, the losses might hurt a little

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Speaker 3: bit more because you care about the people around you,

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Speaker 3: and that drives you to want to go get back

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Speaker 3: after it again, and that over time starts building resilience

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Speaker 3: because practice is fun, the game is fun, and hey,

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Speaker 3: you win, you lose, you go get you go, you

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Speaker 3: go get pizza afterwards, or you have orange slices and

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Speaker 3: capriest sons, and you're smiling and you're laughing and you're

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Speaker 3: joking because you're kind of learning subconsciously that man, we

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Speaker 3: showed up every day this week to practice. We did

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Speaker 3: everything we could and it just didn't work out. And

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Speaker 3: that's okay. But guess what, we get to go play tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: And that's how you develop volitional intrinsic motivation in people,

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Speaker 3: and not this intrinsic extrinsic idea of hey, get three

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Speaker 3: hits and all give you twenty dollars. You know, that's

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Speaker 3: the easy route for us to take. I think as

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Speaker 3: parents in a lot of ways, that's the easy route

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Speaker 3: for coaches to take. And then you know, I'll spare

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Speaker 3: us all the conversation of how it's a fifteen youth

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Speaker 3: baseballs or whatever, fourteen or fifteen million dollar industry and

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Speaker 3: we've just figured out ways to capitalize and monetize it.

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Speaker 3: But in doing so, Yeah, the early specialization that you

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Speaker 3: were talking about, it just leads to injuries and burnout

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Speaker 3: and drop out in a bad time. And I hate

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Speaker 3: to see it because, when done right, it's one of

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Speaker 3: the most formative developmental experiences that we can have as people.

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Speaker 3: As being on a sports team as it get.

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Speaker 1: John, We'll get back to that and of mental skills

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Speaker 1: in a minute. But Das Schayevsky, you are a catcher.

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Speaker 1: You wore the tools of ignorance for years. How do

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Speaker 1: you explain that you love to read? That guy? Where

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Speaker 1: did that come from? Were you a tremendous reader when

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Speaker 1: you were five? Were your parents always telling you the

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Speaker 1: answer is in books and the answer is in knowledge

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Speaker 1: and information? Where did it come from?

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Speaker 3: So my dad has a psychology degree from Stanford, and

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Speaker 3: he likes to joke when he talks to people about

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Speaker 3: me that I wasn't raised. I was trained, which it's

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Speaker 3: kind of dark, but no, so I was a school

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Speaker 3: first kid. I don't know that a lot of people

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Speaker 3: know this story about me, but I was. I believe

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Speaker 3: that I wasn't going to play baseball after high school,

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Speaker 3: and so I went to a great sports school here

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Speaker 3: in northern California called Dala Salve. It's tons of notoriety

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Speaker 3: for its football program, and it's just an incredible environment

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Speaker 3: to be raised in as a high school athlete. I

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Speaker 3: still say to this day, I never saw in the

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Speaker 3: last twenty five years of professional sports and three at

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Speaker 3: the Division ie level. So in the last twenty eight

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Speaker 3: years of really high level sports, I never saw a

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Speaker 3: group of people work harder than I did in high school.

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Speaker 3: And then we did it for each other, not for anybody.

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Speaker 3: So I'm blessed and biased from from that experience. But

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Speaker 3: I you know, I was the salutatory in my high

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Speaker 3: school class. Gave a speech of graduation on the day

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Speaker 3: that we lost the section championship at the Oakland Coliseum.

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Speaker 3: Had a uniform on underneath my cap and gown, and

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Speaker 3: we drove from graduation to our baseball game, and I

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Speaker 3: thought that was my last baseball game. I wanted to

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Speaker 3: go to UCLA and study political science and become an attorney.

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Speaker 3: And my second love was literature. As a kid, I

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Speaker 3: just loved to read. I loved I love. I was

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Speaker 3: fascinated by stories. I've always been fascinated by stories, and

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Speaker 3: you kind of read through every different possible genre. And

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Speaker 3: there were some things that in the past that I

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Speaker 3: had picked up and gone through and been like, I

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Speaker 3: just don't have the time to I don't have the

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Speaker 3: time to understand all the content. I don't know what

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Speaker 3: the political climate in nineteenth century Russia really was like.

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Speaker 3: So how am I supposed to get all these jokes,

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Speaker 3: you know, And so finally, with a little bit of time,

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Speaker 3: the first thing I did is I said, what's the

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Speaker 3: what's the stuff that I've had the most difficulty getting through.

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Speaker 3: I finally have the time and space to mentally try

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Speaker 3: to get through it now. And I'm happy that I

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Speaker 3: went happy. I'm happy that it went there. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's that's the reason. The reason is because I think

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Speaker 3: I was constrained to focus on other things. And again

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Speaker 3: it's like I didn't I would say I didn't specialize

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Speaker 3: in baseball until I got to cal That's when it

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Speaker 3: really became the thing that I was most focused on.

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Speaker 3: And fortunately in that realm, I just love to practice.

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Speaker 3: I just I that was my kind of mindfulness. Practice

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Speaker 3: was to I would go to high school baseball practice

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Speaker 3: and then I would drive to this local batting cage

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Speaker 3: where they would let me hit in the cage by myself,

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Speaker 3: and I would just go hit there for like an

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Speaker 3: hour afterwards. And I think it was a it was

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Speaker 3: more of a therapeutic experience than I than I was

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Speaker 3: necessarily learning anything. But it kind of built over time

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Speaker 3: the work habits to say that, you know, baseball, and

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Speaker 3: people may take this the wrong way, but I think

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Speaker 3: that there are certain physical thresholds that you've got across

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Speaker 3: to be an NBA player. You know, you're not just

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Speaker 3: you can't work hard and be seven foot one. And

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Speaker 3: when you look at the NFL, you know those guys

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Speaker 3: they work incredibly hard as well, but there's also a

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Speaker 3: higher kind of physical standard to reach there. I always

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Speaker 3: look at baseball as something that you know, you see

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Speaker 3: all the different bodies that are out on a field,

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Speaker 3: and you go, man, there's a million different ways to

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Speaker 3: get here. But the biggest consistency across all of those guys,

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Speaker 3: from the tallest players in the game to the smallest

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Speaker 3: players in the game, is a really consistent work ethic

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Speaker 3: and ability to focus when.

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Speaker 2: It matters most.

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Speaker 3: And if you can kind of do those two things,

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Speaker 3: it's not a guarantee that you play Major League baseball.

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Speaker 3: But I feel like baseball, in baseball, you still have

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Speaker 3: a chance, and that's that's different than the other two.

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Speaker 1: Right, and John, this is a loaded question, but I

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Speaker 1: had lunch with, among others, the other day, Nolan Ryan.

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Speaker 1: I probably shouldn't repeat this story, but he said when

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Speaker 1: he was with the astros As a a club president

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Speaker 1: in his mid sixties. A young person joined the organization

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Speaker 1: and armed with all sorts of statistics and data and

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Speaker 1: everything else, and looked at Nolan Ryan and said, in

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Speaker 1: two weeks, I'll know everything that you know about pitching

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Speaker 1: two weeks. And it worries me to know end that

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Speaker 1: there is a person out there that got a job

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Speaker 1: in baseball thinking in two weeks, I will know what

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Speaker 1: the greatest power pitcher of all time knows all of that,

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Speaker 1: the hardest pitcher to hit of all time. And in

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Speaker 1: two weeks, I'll know what you know. Again, load down.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to interrupt you because I wish everybody is

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Speaker 4: watching on YouTube because this steam coming out of John

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Speaker 4: Baker's headphones and the size and the eye closes. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I cannot wait to hear your response.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we.

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Speaker 3: Love to think that we can ex We're just so

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Speaker 3: arrogant as human beings. We love to think that we

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Speaker 3: can measure and explain everything. And I think I would

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Speaker 3: start with saying that for me, the qualification of something

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Speaker 3: to be called great art. Okay, Like we could take

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Speaker 3: poetry for example. Poetry is great because it conveys a message.

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Speaker 3: That is more than the words that you're reading on

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Speaker 3: the page. Something else is happening in that kind of ineffable,

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Speaker 3: unable to describe realm. Okay, so yes, we can watch

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Speaker 3: something and we can record every physical measurement that we

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Speaker 3: can record about it, but we never know what is

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Speaker 3: going on inside of that person's mind. It's the you know,

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Speaker 3: like take biomechanics for example. Biomechanics just chops the head

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Speaker 3: off of the person. It says, these are all the

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Speaker 3: angles that the bones are moving, but it has nothing

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Speaker 3: to do with intent.

438
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 2: And I'm going to get back to Nolan Ryan, but

439
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 2: I'll start by saying this.

440
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,439
Speaker 3: When I was working for the Pirates, we hired a

441
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 3: biomechanist and I was incredibly impressed by her because of

442
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 3: what she said. She said that she said to biomechanics

443
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 3: were missing something. I said, interesting. Usually people, when they're

444
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 3: being interviewed, they say, we'll be able to figure this

445
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 3: out and I'll tell you exactly why, and we're going

446
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 3: to make the organization better. And she said, no, we have.

447
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,880
Speaker 3: There's a lack of humility here in that we cut

448
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 3: the head off. We don't know what the people's intent was.

449
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 3: And she talked about a story, a project that she

450
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,439
Speaker 3: worked on when she was getting her PhD, where she

451
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 3: had graduate students walk and she did a gate analysis

452
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 3: of them and so as they're walking, how their body's

453
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 3: moving as they're walking, and she created that as the baseline.

454
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 3: Then she gave them a really complex problem to solve

455
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 3: in their head and watch them walk, and they walked

456
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 3: and they moved.

457
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 2: Completely differently and moved completely differently.

458
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 3: And so her point, which I think speaks to this,

459
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 3: is that we don't know everything we think we know.

460
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 3: We don't understand the level of conviction that Nolan Ryan

461
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 3: had on the mound, the belief that the fastball was

462
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 3: going to go where he wanted it to go, or

463
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,199
Speaker 3: that it didn't have to go where he wanted to go,

464
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 3: and he was still going to be successful. I was

465
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 3: talking to a pitcher last week about conviction, and I said,

466
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 3: you know, they've done a lot of modeling now, and

467
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 3: they and they and they basically have said that the

468
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 3: most effective pitch selection would be like total game theory randomization,

469
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 3: just throw whatever at any time, and that that'd be

470
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 3: the most effective strategy to use in baseball. And I said,

471
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,719
Speaker 3: you know, I actually think they're right, because but only

472
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 3: if the guy on the mound believes that that's the

473
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 3: pitch that he should be throwing in that moment, that

474
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 3: there's there's full conviction. When I was when I was catching,

475
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 3: I would tell my pitchers all the time, I'd say,

476
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 3: I want you to shake, but I but it's it's

477
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 3: it's inside very specific parameters. If as the ball is

478
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 3: coming back to you on the mound, you have something

479
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 3: that is formed as the pitch that you want to

480
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 3: throw in your mind, I demand that you shake to

481
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 3: that pitch, and I don't care if it is the

482
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 3: wrong pitch based on what this what the simulation gave

483
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 3: us ahead of time, what we need to throw to

484
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 3: this guy. Because when we watch a Major League baseball game,

485
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 3: generally what we see is that the balls that get

486
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 3: hit over the fence are the ones that end up

487
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 3: right down the middle, which means that they're not executed,

488
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 3: which means that there is some sort of lack of

489
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,879
Speaker 3: conviction or a lack of consistency on the pitcher's ability

490
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 3: to throw the ball where he wants. Convicted pitches are

491
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 3: the most effective, and so we could say that we

492
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 3: know everything physically potentially about Nolan Ryan, we know exactly. Oh,

493
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 3: he probably had a I mean, I don't think anybody's

494
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 3: ever gone back and done this, but he probably had

495
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 3: like a lower release height, high spin, high velocity fastball

496
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 3: that he could throw ninety four ninety five miles an

497
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 3: hour and throw right by people because there is some

498
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 3: sort of optical illusion created with how he pitches. And

499
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 3: then he's got the big leg kick that moves up

500
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 3: in front of him, which is distracting, and then he's

501
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 3: got the persona of that person on the mound who's

502
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 3: been pitching for what three or four decades or something crazy.

503
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 3: There's so much that goes into what he's doing on

504
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 3: the mound that you could take a twenty two year

505
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 3: old and have him replicate that exactly, and he would

506
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 3: not have nearly the same amount of success because of

507
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: all of the other stuff that's going on. And those

508
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 3: are the things that we can't measure. There's so much

509
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 3: that happens that we have to look at and go, man,

510
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 3: this is a human game. If we could just predict

511
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 3: all of it, what would be the point.

512
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't we just.

513
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 3: Simulate it and gamble on it on the computer. Now

514
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: we have to play the game because of the things

515
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 3: that we see, and then the stuff that we're attracted to,

516
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 3: I think is when the stuff breaks out of that mold,

517
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 3: when things change, When people do things that are exceptional,

518
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 3: they're only exceptional because we don't see them all the time.

519
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 3: And that's why we continue to tune in over and

520
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 3: over again to baseball. I want to see the time

521
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 3: when the guy does the thing that nobody thought was

522
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 3: going to happen. That's the beauty of live sports that

523
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 3: we miss when we start saying, well, we can prescript

524
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 3: this thing from pitch one all the way to the end,

525
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 3: and the guy sitting with the iPad and the dugout

526
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 3: he knows better of what this pitcher needs to throw

527
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 3: right now. I think that that's kind of it's ridiculous,

528
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 3: and it's ridiculous kind of in this kind of this

529
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 3: humorous way of like, you know, we don't know everything

530
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 3: as you age, as I age, That's one of the

531
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 3: things that stuck out to me the most. The older

532
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 3: I get, the more I realize the less I know.

533
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 3: And it's it's wonderful because that means there's a lot

534
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 3: of stuff out there to learn. But being able to

535
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 3: walk in and say, I'll be able to tell you

536
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 3: everything about Uh, I'll know everything about pitching in two

537
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 3: weeks after I after I read a book. It's not

538
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 3: the same. It's not the same thing. That's like saying, uh,

539
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 3: the three of us could tell you how to climb

540
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: up Mount Everest because we read a book.

541
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, good luck.

542
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 3: We're gonna have to go do that for ourselves before

543
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 3: we can say that we know what we're talking about.

544
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: Tell Jeffrey the story about when you were with the Pirates.

545
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to hurt anybody here, but somebody's talk

546
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: to you about your career as a hitter. What did

547
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: he say to you?

548
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we were in a we were in a

549
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 3: we were in a we were in the box, and

550
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 3: you know, like I we were talking about what was

551
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 3: going on, and it was almost like I started like

552
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 3: making fun of my career as a Oh, well, you know,

553
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 3: you weren't a great hitter, so like, you know, maybe

554
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 3: you don't know what you're talking about when it comes

555
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 3: to that basically.

556
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: And I looked at it.

557
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 3: I looked at him and I thought, man, this is

558
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 3: you know, if this is high school, I might try

559
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 3: to put this.

560
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 2: Guy in a garbage camp.

561
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 3: But we're adults now, and it's it's somebody I actually like,

562
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 3: like and respect too. But I think that it's it's

563
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 3: it's less about the comment and it's more about the

564
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 3: ability for the way things are constructed now for people

565
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 3: to feel like they have the ability to say that,

566
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 3: to say something like that to someone, you know, because man,

567
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 3: we look at what it's seven people hit three hundred

568
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 3: last year. We look at how hard or how good

569
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 3: pitching has gotten because of all this technology that we have,

570
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 3: and shoot, I got to oversee I would argue, the

571
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 3: best pitching the best pitching development space in professional baseball

572
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 3: in Pittsburgh, and I see the things that we're doing

573
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 3: with these guys, and I see how quickly they're changing

574
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 3: and adapting and how this real time feedback comes out

575
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 3: and they are literally better from bullpen session to bullpen session.

576
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 3: I got to watch Paul Skeins go, Hey, I need

577
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 3: to throw a I need to have something that goes

578
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 3: this way, and like three months later he comes back

579
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,719
Speaker 3: with an unhittable split finger fastball, and it's almost like

580
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 3: the people that haven't had that experience, they have no

581
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 3: real understanding of the difficulty and so they feel like

582
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 3: because they've watched it for so long, or they have

583
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 3: this authority to be able to say like, oh, well,

584
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 3: you weren't very good at this, And I'm like, we

585
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 3: couldn't even fill up a stadium yet with the amount

586
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 3: of people that were lucky enough to hit the opportunity

587
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 3: lottery where it's like you're playing well enough and somebody

588
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 3: gets hurt and you break through somehow to be able

589
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 3: to get there. I might spent six and a half

590
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 3: years in the minor leagues before I got to the

591
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 3: big leagues. I've made two Triple All Star team. I

592
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 3: got called up before I got to play in the

593
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: second one, but I made two Triple Ay All Star teams

594
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 3: before I got there. That's a lot of that's a

595
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 3: long history of success to be able to break into

596
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 3: the highest thing in the world.

597
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 2: And so like for me, I look at it. I

598
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: have respect.

599
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 3: I treat the I treated our minor league players, the

600
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 3: kids that we signed in the Dominican Republic, I treated

601
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 3: them with the same amount of respect that I would

602
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 3: have treated Willie Mays, because just getting there is so hard.

603
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 3: Making it through that way is so hard, getting it

604
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 3: getting into the funneling into professional baseball is so challenging.

605
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: There's not one player that makes it into the professional

606
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 3: space that is.

607
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 2: A bad hitter.

608
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 3: It's just impossible by numbers to say this guy is bad,

609
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 3: even somebody who who who plays one season of minor

610
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 3: league baseball. Baseball is very, very very challenging, and hitting

611
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 3: is the hardest part of it. And to say that

612
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 3: anybody in the professional space is bad again, it's almost

613
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 3: like flipping your cards over at the poker table and saying, like, actually,

614
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 3: I just had two seven off suit.

615
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 4: My favorite stat to throw at people former players, whoever

616
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 4: it might be, is the smallest stadium in Major League

617
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 4: Baseball's Progressive Field in Cleveland, Love. That ballpark holds about

618
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 4: thirty four thousand. According to Baseball Reference, twenty three and

619
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 4: a half thousand people have ever played Major League baseball,

620
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 4: so if you put them in the stands, it would

621
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 4: be a relatively slow day at the ballpark. So when

622
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 4: you put that into perspective when you go to a

623
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 4: baseball game the next time, keep in mind that's the

624
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 4: smallest ballpark I could possibly give you an example of

625
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 4: we're not even coming close to filling that ballpark. And

626
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 4: that's every player who's played since the late eighteen hundreds.

627
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 4: So making a ball club, a major league ballpark, a

628
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 4: major league ball club is an incredible feat, and we

629
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 4: need to remind our kids of that. If they aren't

630
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 4: making it, it's ridiculous that somebody would say that to

631
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 4: a major league.

632
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: And let's tie this back into youth sports too. Think

633
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 3: about the amount of people that are going to be

634
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 3: able to make it just based on just based on

635
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 3: those numbers. Baseball is for them too, if we set

636
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 3: up the conditions for it to go right, you know,

637
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 3: like that's the that's the that's the thing that always

638
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 3: kind of galls me, Like, there is this there is

639
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 3: some sort of through line between the UH, the we

640
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 3: know everything modern front office and the UH and the

641
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,719
Speaker 3: and the people coaching thirteen year old teams taking them

642
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 3: all over the country so that they can play one

643
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty games. There's there's some sort of coherence

644
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 3: there that I have not yet been able to like

645
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 3: fully square in my mind. There's a couple of puzzle

646
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 3: pieces still missing.

647
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: John I talked to a buddy of mine years ago.

648
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: He coached a twelve year old travel team, and he

649
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: and these kids were good, and he got tired of

650
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: the parents yelling at the children every time they made

651
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: it out. And this guy pitched in college. He beat

652
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: Roger Clemens in a college World Series game, and at

653
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: age fifty five, John he could still let it go.

654
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: So one day he's so sick and tired of the

655
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: parents that he tells all the dads in front of

656
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: the moms and the kids, you're taking batting practice against me.

657
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: And he went out.

658
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: There and as you can imagine, he struck them all out.

659
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: He humiliated every one of them.

660
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: And two of them.

661
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: Came to him and said, what the hell was that

662
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: all about? And he said, you have no idea how

663
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: hard this game is to play. Now you know what

664
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: it feels like to be humiliated in front of everyone.

665
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: Stop yelling at your kids. Is that that's what we

666
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: need once in a while, do we not?

667
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, we absolutely need that. And you know it's funny.

668
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 3: It's funny you bring this up because one of the

669
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 3: things as I've started to work with some younger athletes,

670
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 3: I realized that I had I'm I'm talking to these

671
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 3: I'm talking to these kids, and I'm going, oh, I

672
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 3: think I actually need to talk to your parents. I

673
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 3: think that's the and and so I've actually I developed

674
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 3: a guide that I send out to them, but I'll

675
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 3: just read from some of it here. The uncomfortable truth

676
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 3: is that kids can feel your stress and anxiety. If

677
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 3: you're tense and worried in the stands, they pick up

678
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 3: on it. If you're disappointed after a loss, they know

679
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 3: your emotional state affects their ability to perform. And I

680
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,719
Speaker 3: tell people, but there's only one thing that you have

681
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 3: to say as a parent, especially if you're coaching, if

682
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 3: you're not the coach on the team, and you're just

683
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 3: like youth sports parent that is making the sacrifice financially

684
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 3: and physically to drive them back and forth for practice.

685
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 2: When they get in the car after the game, just

686
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 2: say I love watching you play. That's it. That's it.

687
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 3: You don't need to go any further. You don't need

688
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 3: to analyze their swing. You don't know better than them,

689
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 3: you don't need to watch you don't need to watch

690
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 3: teacher man videos on YouTube and try to teach your

691
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 3: kid how to snap the barrel or something like. There's

692
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 3: other people out there that can do that. The parent's role,

693
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 3: most specifically is a safe space for them to be

694
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 3: able to process experiences. Somebody that teaches them, teaches them

695
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 3: and guides them to develop self awareness. Someone who asks

696
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 3: them good, open ended questions and gives them the space

697
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 3: to talk. Someone who loves them regardless of how they play,

698
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 3: a model for managing emotions and staying present. That's what

699
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 3: the parent responsibility is. But I think that, and I

700
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 3: also think there's something too about how most of us

701
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 3: play baseball when we're five years old. That we start,

702
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 3: you know, play t ball or something, and then we

703
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 3: move up. And so every time we do grab a

704
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 3: bat or we see our kid, you know, by proxy

705
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 3: grab that bat, it's almost like we I see it

706
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 3: in the stands, they revert back to It's like they

707
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 3: turn into five year olds. Now, they turn into five

708
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 3: year olds that are unable to manage their emotions, because

709
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 3: you know, there's this love of wanting my kid to

710
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: do well, but also also this pride that I want

711
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 3: my kid to be the best. When I was still

712
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 3: playing and living in the Bay Area, my nephew was

713
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 3: in high school and so kind of crossed over at

714
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 3: this one time where I could like go see them

715
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 3: play a couple times at the high school field, and

716
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 3: I could walk from my house to the field. So

717
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 3: I walk over there, and I'm sitting in the stands,

718
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: and I last at an inning in the stand for

719
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 3: those reasons, I just heard just I'm just hearing like

720
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 3: the you know, as they get your elbow up, crowd

721
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 3: yelling at the kids. And I stood up, walked around.

722
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 3: There was a football field the other side. I dragged

723
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 3: a small bleacher section over and then I climbed up

724
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 3: on the bleachers out and I just sat out right

725
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 3: center fields watched the game in peace, so I don't

726
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 3: have to listen to these people scream scream not only

727
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 3: not only bad advice from like a mechanical perspective at

728
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 3: the kid, but just like this, it was like sitting

729
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 3: in a cloud of negativity and frustration and anger that

730
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 3: I'm like, man, the kids they may not be able

731
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 3: to physically see it, but they look up in the

732
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 3: stands and they see that they see the guy. Ah

733
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 3: man go like that after the kid touches out or

734
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 3: throw something or walk off. You know, like we're adults.

735
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 3: We're not allowed to kick the garbage. Can you have

736
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 3: no helmet to throw in the stands, So just understand

737
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 3: that your responsibility is to be this kind of like

738
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 3: level presence that cares for your child regardless of how

739
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 3: they perform on or off the field, and to constantly

740
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 3: push them towards, like, what can we do for you

741
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 3: to have fun here? It's not just about winning and losing.

742
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 3: It's about in the enjoyment of this experience. Let's help

743
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 3: build those conditions, work with coaching, make the experience enjoyable

744
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: for kids. And you know what we'll get out of

745
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 3: that in the long run, fifteen years from now, will

746
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 3: get a higher level of play at the major leagues

747
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 3: if this is adopted, I think in a wider way.

748
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 4: I was a little league umpire for years. It was

749
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 4: my first ever job when I was fifteen years old,

750
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 4: and I really did for the money to go out

751
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 4: for ice cream with my friends and everything. And I

752
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 4: knew enough about baseball and it sounded better than you know,

753
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 4: mop and floors. But it really what I didn't realize

754
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 4: it was going to teach me was so money dealing

755
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 4: with adult life skills. I mean, here, I am fifteen.

756
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 4: You think I look young now at thirty two, John,

757
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 4: imagine what I looked like at fifteen. I should have

758
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 4: been on the field with the ten year olds. Half

759
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 4: the catchers were taller than me. But the point was,

760
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 4: I had this one park that had an unusually close

761
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 4: backstop to home plate. I mean, honestly not up to code.

762
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 4: It was very dangerous. A pass ball was like basically

763
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 4: at the catcher's foot anyway. But the point was I

764
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 4: made a rule at that park that no parents could

765
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 4: stand behind home plate because you were what felt like

766
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 4: two feet away from your kid at the plate. And

767
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 4: I told both coaches, hey, these are the ground rules

768
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,959
Speaker 4: for the game today. We can only have our scorekeeping

769
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 4: moms or dads behind home plate for this game because

770
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 4: there's plenty of stands everywhere else. But I don't need

771
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 4: I had too many parents elbow down this, head up,

772
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 4: stay in the box, all this stuff, And how are

773
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 4: we supposed to focus on learning how to hit the

774
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 4: ball and have some fun if dad or mom is

775
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 4: yelling at us behind them. Hated that ballpark, And I

776
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 4: think you bring up such a great point of let

777
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 4: the kids play and let's practice later.

778
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: John, you've already talked about this, but the mental skills

779
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: part you've said is your favorite job you've had, certainly

780
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: in retirement. Explain what has made you love it as

781
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: much as you have.

782
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 2: So I think that what what a lot of people

783
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 2: seem to need.

784
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 3: And this you know, this obviously started for my work

785
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: with the Cubs, but the and and I think that

786
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 3: there's there's kind of two parts of this. At that part,

787
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 3: there's there's there's what's called the paradox of elite performance,

788
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 3: which is Gloria Balague, and the paradox of elite performance

789
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 3: says that if you're an elite performer and you do

790
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 3: really well, you're just meeting expectations.

791
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: If you do if you have if you have.

792
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 3: A poor season then or a poor week, or a

793
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 3: poor game or a poor month, then it's like the

794
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 3: world is on fire. And so what I noticed at

795
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 3: that level was a lot of guys not really being

796
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 3: able to enjoy the experience of playing major League baseball.

797
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 3: And again, you know, Chicago is a is a big market,

798
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 3: and that that group of players and very specifically like

799
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 3: the the Anthony Rizzo, David Ross, Ben Zobrist, Chris Bryant,

800
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 3: John Lester, John Lackey, Jason Hayward, that kind of core

801
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 3: group of players that was there are some of the

802
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 3: best people I've ever been around in baseball. They and

803
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 3: under Joe what really changed in Chicago. What I got

804
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 3: to see was they basically turned it back into we're.

805
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 2: On a little league team together again. And so I

806
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: kind of got this.

807
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 3: And that's why I think as the as the you know,

808
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 3: you go from twenty fourteen when I played there, to

809
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 3: kind of the turnaround there in twenty and fifteen to

810
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 3: then winning the World Series in twenty and sixteen. And

811
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 3: I'm very excited that David and Tony are doing their

812
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 3: kind of podcast where they're going to bring some of

813
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 3: those people back and tell those stories, because it is

814
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 3: the epitome of what like a really close knit team

815
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 3: looks like when a group of players inside of all

816
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 3: that pressure, is still doing things for each other and

817
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 3: doing things for a bigger cause, obviously trying to break

818
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 3: one hundred and eight year old curse. But but after that,

819
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 3: it's actually to me the most interesting part, because you

820
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 3: now there's this level of expectation that that group needs

821
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 3: to meet and the effort and the practice and the training.

822
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 3: It was like, we had they had done enough to

823
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 3: win this World Series. Now there was this pressure to

824
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 3: like do more and like seeing the impact that it

825
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 3: had on people that really cared.

826
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 2: You know.

827
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 3: That's what pushed me back into graduate school was being

828
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 3: around those guys working in the mental skills department with

829
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 3: no academic foundation and essentially just being like a listener

830
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 3: to the frustrations that they were dealing with.

831
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: You know.

832
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 3: It was like I maybe the All Star team, but

833
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 3: like this isn't good enough, Like this isn't good enough.

834
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 3: I'm not good enough, We're not good enough.

835
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 2: You know.

836
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 3: I saw some of that kind of going on post

837
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 3: World Series, which I'll say.

838
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 2: Was a huge credit to Dave Roberts. You know, I

839
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 2: got a chance to play.

840
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 3: He was a coach on my team for a couple

841
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 3: of years when I was with the Padres, and so

842
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 3: I know the kind of person and man that that

843
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 3: doc is and what Freddie Freeman is like as well.

844
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 3: In that group of players that they've assembled in La people,

845
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 3: I think sometimes again, this is like the kind of

846
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 3: like the Nolan Ryan thing. You know, we look at

847
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 3: this from the outside and we say, well, yeah, sure

848
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 3: the Dodgers should win every year they have the best team,

849
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 3: but actually doing it is incredibly challenging given the internal

850
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 3: and external pressures that are on that group of players,

851
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 3: and so to be able to manage a locker room

852
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 3: like that, And it's a testament to the people that

853
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 3: they've signed down there in LA that they're in this

854
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 3: great position where hey, if I don't do it, I

855
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 3: can trust the next guy. And you now have this

856
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 3: kind of like Little League super team running out on

857
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 3: the field every single year. That's a hard thing to manage,

858
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 3: and they've done a good job. So they've got me

859
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 3: really interested into like, how do how do we cope

860
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 3: with the experience of like doing this really hard thing

861
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 3: under pressure?

862
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: What are the physiological things behind it?

863
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 3: You know, when you're playing a professor sport in front

864
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 3: of forty thousand people, there is that moment where you

865
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 3: transition in the autonomic nervous system from paras empathetic so

866
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 3: rest and relax into fight or flight. Fight or flight

867
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 3: is actually a good thing in the context of performance,

868
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,240
Speaker 3: because my vision kind of narrows, my heart beats faster,

869
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 3: there's more blood, more oxygen. I kind of turned into

870
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 3: Superman in a way. I can do physical things that

871
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 3: I couldn't do in that other state, And so I

872
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 3: was just fascinated by all of that stuff and it

873
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 3: kind of pushed me into it and then it became

874
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 3: you know, working with people just one on one and

875
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 3: like hearing their stories about where they came from, how

876
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 3: they got there, what this means to them, what their

877
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 3: values are, what they're trying to accomplish, why they want

878
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,720
Speaker 3: to try to accomplish those things, what the team means

879
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 3: to them. I mean, it's like that never ever felt

880
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 3: like any sort of work to me. It felt like

881
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 3: just an incredible learning experience. And then I could take

882
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 3: these things that I was, you know, most of the

883
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: time with my job with the Cubs, I'm in school

884
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 3: and I was saying stuff like I remember telling John

885
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,959
Speaker 3: Lackey one day he walked he walked out to the field,

886
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 3: the wind was blowing in, and he comes in and

887
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 3: he goes fastballs down the middle.

888
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 2: All day to day's that was his game player. He

889
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 2: saw it as far as you boys what.

890
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 3: And I was laughing, and I said, you know, man,

891
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 3: I go, I read all this stuff in these sports

892
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 3: psychology books and I'm like doing these assignments, and I go,

893
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 3: you and John Wester are like, God, you epitomize like

894
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 3: I never saw it this way before, but you epitomize

895
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 3: like all the things that they say these elite performers

896
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 3: do really well. You have high expectations of yourself, You

897
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 3: have really strong work ethics, You have a very specific

898
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 3: routine that you use to prepare. You get really focused

899
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 3: when it matters. You don't change based on the You

900
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 3: don't change based on the external perceived situation of the game.

901
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 3: But you know, Lackey started two game sevens, or pitched

902
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 3: in two game sevens. And I saw it with John

903
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 3: Lester in twenty twenty. He started against the Reds in

904
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,959
Speaker 3: during the COVID season, and we walked back together after

905
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 3: the game. We were sitting up on the rooftop of

906
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 3: the hotel outside, you know, like six feet apart at

907
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 3: the time, and I said, you know, everybody else has

908
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 3: been affected by this, but I just watched you pitch

909
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 3: and you look exactly the same. And he looked at

910
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 3: me and he said, well, what changed. I said, well,

911
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 3: there's nobody in.

912
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 2: The crowd, and he goes, oh, I never thought about that.

913
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: He's like, I have a.

914
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 3: Baseball, I'm trying to throw it in this place to

915
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 3: get these guys out, and nothing has changed about that.

916
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 3: There's just it's just a different environment. And I think

917
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 3: about that start that he had in twenty twenty, and

918
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 3: then I think about the game that he pitched in

919
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 3: the wildcard game, I think in twenty eighteen that we

920
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 3: ended up losing, where it was like the same performance.

921
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 3: One is like the whole season's on the line and

922
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 3: if we lose, we go home. And then the other

923
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 3: one is like week week one of the COVID season,

924
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 3: which is super bizarre, and John was the same exact guy.

925
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 2: And I looked at that and I said, how how

926
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: are people like that?

927
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 3: Like that's so it's so such an amazing thing to

928
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 3: watch and then be able to ask those people questions,

929
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 3: and so you pull a lot of the stuff from

930
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 3: those guys, filter it through the stuff I've learned academically,

931
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 3: and then I then, like we've been talking about now,

932
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 3: it starts to link back to, well, how do we

933
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 3: develop that earlier in people? You know, how do we

934
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 3: develop that earlier in people? Give them an opportunity to

935
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 3: really not just enjoy baseball when when when the goal

936
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 3: is fun as kids, but also just enjoy it through

937
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 3: the span of a career. And I think that's what

938
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 3: really got me hooked. And so I love I love

939
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 3: doing that work with people. I love hearing their stories.

940
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 3: I love meeting with them and helping them with some

941
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 3: strategies to like maximize their maximize their performance. But I

942
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 3: think more importantly really kind of figure out who they

943
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 3: are from a values perspective. What what do they actually value?

944
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 3: How do they embody that when they go out and play.

945
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 3: And it's funny when it's like with the older ones,

946
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 3: with the professionals, it's oftentimes connecting them back to the

947
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 3: kid who first picked up the bat in the first place,

948
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 3: like why did you want to do this in the

949
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 3: first place, And that provides some peace and solace. And

950
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 3: then for the younger ones, it's about telling them stories

951
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 3: about these guys that I've had it opportunity to work

952
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 3: with and see or just observe in some cases and say,

953
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 3: you know, I saw you Darvish do this over the

954
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 3: course of a long period of time and it was

955
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 3: a really simple process that he had and it took

956
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 3: him two minutes every day before he play catch, And

957
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 3: I think that that's something that would be effective for you.

958
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 3: And know the kids here that they go, you darbish,

959
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,359
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do the same thing right now too, And

960
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 3: then you see those skills start to build and people

961
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 3: have success, and I just love being a part of that.

962
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 3: You know, I got an opportunity myself to achieve the

963
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:30,839
Speaker 3: thing that I wanted to achieve when I was that

964
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 3: little kid. You know, I got to step onto a

965
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 3: major league field and play baseball. And this work, this

966
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 3: work for me, feels like an opportunity for me to

967
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 3: give back to that thing. And I think that's why

968
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 3: I've been kind of most focused now on like this,

969
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 3: this younger population. You know, parents out there should all

970
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 3: go listen to Jeff Francour's podcast because he talks a

971
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 3: lot about the U sports side of things. But for

972
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 3: me personally, it's less about being some public figure that

973
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 3: wants to be, you know, doing a lot of posting

974
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 3: and stuff to bring in business and just really getting

975
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 3: in and working with people one on one, because that's

976
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 3: that's where I feel the happiest.

977
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: Right John, Speaking of young people, Connor Griffin is nineteen

978
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: years old. He's going to be a star in the

979
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: big leagues. Tell Jeffrey, tell everyone the story that you

980
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: told me about Connor Griffin's approach, his philosophy about playing

981
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: the game.

982
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

983
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we signed when we signed Connor Griffin, he

984
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 3: came down. I was still the farm director with the Pirates,

985
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,399
Speaker 3: and he comes down to Pirate City as our first

986
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 3: meeting with me and Jonathan Johnson, who's our hitting coordinator,

987
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: And so we're sitting there, just the three of us

988
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 3: in a room and all we would do this.

989
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 2: With all of our players that we drafted.

990
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 3: We kind of prepare some stuff for them about what

991
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 3: we think about the next couple steps look like and

992
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 3: they're onboarding into professional baseball, what they can expect, et cetera.

993
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 3: But we always ask him the question before we start,

994
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 3: and I can I can.

995
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 2: I can tell the Paul.

996
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 3: Skeins one after this too, and we say, you know,

997
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 3: what do you have for us? And he looked at

998
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 3: us and he said, you know, I think I'm a

999
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 3: really good athlete. He's like, but I have a ton

1000
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 3: to learn. I don't think I'm a great baseball player,

1001
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 3: yet I have I have a ton to learn. And

1002
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 3: there's a couple of things that you guys need to

1003
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 3: know about me.

1004
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 2: He's like.

1005
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 3: The first thing is I really respond well to being

1006
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 3: challenged and I will do everything it takes to possibly

1007
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 3: be better. Here's the here's the I've had a hitting

1008
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 3: coach for a long time back home. But he even

1009
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 3: said that he doesn't know as much as you guys

1010
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 3: probably know. So here's his phone number if you want

1011
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 3: to connect. If you want to connect, please connect with

1012
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 3: him so that we can make sure that my training

1013
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 3: is consistent throughout the entire year. He'll facilitate whatever we're

1014
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 3: going to run, but push me. I want to be challenged.

1015
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 3: I want it to be really hard, and I want

1016
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 3: you guys to tell me the truth and I will

1017
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 3: give everything I possibly can.

1018
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 2: To be as good as I can possibly be.

1019
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 3: And and last year, as a man of integrity, that

1020
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 3: kid Appsol lived up to every single one of those

1021
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,919
Speaker 3: words and it showed with this performance on the field. Yes,

1022
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 3: is an incredible physical talent. But beyond being an incredible

1023
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,479
Speaker 3: physical talent, he also happened to work like through work

1024
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 3: habits his way into every team that he played on

1025
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 3: last year as the team leader at eighteen years old

1026
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 3: in Double A, the kids, all the other guys looked

1027
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,959
Speaker 3: up to him because they saw the way he showed

1028
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 3: up every single day, walked in with humility, and he

1029
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 3: led with humility. When he came in, I mean literally

1030
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: the first thing he said is I don't think that

1031
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 3: I'm that good of a player yet. I know I'm

1032
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 3: a great athlete, but I have a ton of stuff

1033
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 3: that I can do. So then we asked him, We're like, hey,

1034
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 3: what have you been doing, you know, from the draft

1035
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 3: until then he goes, well, I heard that there was

1036
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 3: a lot of really good velocity in professional baseball. He's like, so,

1037
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 3: I've just been going to the cage, having them turn

1038
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 3: whatever machine they have all the way all the way up,

1039
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 3: and I've been hitting off it. So I'm ready for

1040
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 3: the velocity. And for those that don't know, one of

1041
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 3: the things that sucks about hitting practice is a machine

1042
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 3: that's not necessarily necessarily throwing a fastball where you wanted

1043
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 3: every single time and coming at extreme velocity. You have

1044
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 3: no pre pitch chemic kinematics, meaning like it's really hard

1045
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 3: to time and you've got to figure that stuff out there.

1046
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 3: So basically what he was telling us is he's like, hey,

1047
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 3: you know the thing that everybody like absolutely hates to

1048
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 3: do the most in all of professional baseball, which has

1049
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 3: hit off of a high velocity, shaky pitching machine. That's

1050
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 3: what I thought would be the most important thing for

1051
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 3: me to practice before I got here, and I mean

1052
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 3: it showed up immediately, showed up immediately. In the end

1053
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 3: of that twenty twenty four season, he volunteered to go

1054
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 3: down to the Dominican Republic and we had an opportunity

1055
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 3: like an exchange program where our players would go join

1056
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 3: the Dominican Instruction League with the new CBA there. We

1057
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 3: need to have consent in a conversation like a thing

1058
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 3: to be signed, but he was immediately, Let's do it.

1059
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 3: Let's go down there. Let's go play with those guys.

1060
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 3: They're my teammates.

1061
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: Tell them the similar story about Paul Schemes when you

1062
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: met him and what you've seen from him as far

1063
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: as understanding where he is.

1064
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 2: Well with Paul too.

1065
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 3: Paul is like one of the few people that's like

1066
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 3: twenty one where I talk to him and I'm like.

1067
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 2: Why do I feel like he's older.

1068
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 3: Than me as we're having this conversation, you know, like

1069
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 3: there's this sense of there's this like presence to that

1070
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,800
Speaker 3: person that is in an aura that is really special.

1071
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 3: But so Paul came down and we had this Josh

1072
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 3: Hopper was our pitch border. We had this whole list

1073
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 3: of things that we wanted to work with Paul On.

1074
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 3: You know, as we watched him at LSU, we watched

1075
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 3: all this video of him, We're looking at some of

1076
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 3: the things and we're saying, okay, well, you know, this

1077
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 3: guy basically threw fastball slider at LSU, and so as

1078
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 3: he transitions to professional baseball, he's going to have to

1079
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 3: do a couple of things. One, he's gonna have to

1080
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 3: touch a different like rotation. He's used to pitching every Friday.

1081
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 3: He's going to pitch more frequently than that. So one

1082
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 3: of our goals was to constrain his innings, but get

1083
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 3: him get him on a five day so we can

1084
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 3: feel like what that routine feels like as he's moving

1085
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 3: into the next season. The second one was we looked

1086
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 3: at it and said, okay, we got to have something

1087
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 3: that kind of goes this way. The slider that goes

1088
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 3: that way, we have the fastball that goes like this.

1089
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 3: We need something to go this way. He threw a

1090
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 3: couple of change ups in college, but I think we

1091
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 3: were pretty sure that the kids hit those like they

1092
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 3: were fastballs, and they thought they were fastballs, so.

1093
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 2: We needed something going that way.

1094
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 3: And then we noticed too that he would really manipulate

1095
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 3: his grip on his breaking ball based on the effect

1096
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 3: that he was trying to achieve. So he said, okay,

1097
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 3: like we should probably teach him or talk to him

1098
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 3: about learning a pitch where we just make a grip

1099
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 3: adjustment so we can throw the same thing and we

1100
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 3: don't know it turn into a gyro slider or a

1101
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 3: curveball or something. We'll figure out where it goes. So

1102
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 3: same thing with Paul. He comes in, we sit down.

1103
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 3: I'm like, hey, Paul, so, you know, nice to meet you.

1104
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 3: You have anything that you want to say about, Like

1105
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 3: what you think this year should this first year of

1106
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 3: pro ball should be free you? And he goes yeah,

1107
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 3: He's like, I should have a list. He's like, the

1108
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 3: first thing is I'm gonna need to touch a five day.

1109
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 3: I haven't done that before. I need to get used

1110
00:51:58,440 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 3: to that kind of routine. I don't think I should

1111
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 3: pitch ton of innings because I have one hundred and

1112
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 3: twenty three coming out of LSU, and like, I just

1113
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 3: want to be smart about that, but I trust you

1114
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 3: guys to make sure that you manage that. He's like,

1115
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 3: the second thing is I need something that goes this way,

1116
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 3: you know, He's like, I threw change ups in college,

1117
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 3: but oftentimes those things got hit because I think the

1118
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 3: kids thought there.

1119
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 2: Were fastball, so I just didn't throw them very often

1120
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 2: and I could.

1121
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 1: Get by on that.

1122
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 2: And he goes, the third thing is I throw my

1123
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 2: breaking ball the same way all the time, and it

1124
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 2: just kind of manipulate the grips. I've been thinking about, like, can.

1125
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 3: We mess around with some grits to to do this stuff?

1126
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 3: And I just went, yeah, there you go.

1127
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, did my job, Yes, yes, we'll do that.

1128
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 2: That's perfect. That's perfect.

1129
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 3: And so then he goes away that year and goes

1130
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 3: and goes over to Georgia with Wes Johnson. And so

1131
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 3: we were so thankful working with Pittsburgh for Paul, because

1132
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 3: you know, Paul is very much like not a vocal

1133
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 3: follow me or else guy. He's just like, no, this

1134
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 3: is he shows up and does his stuff and works,

1135
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 3: and all the younger pitchers see it and they go like,

1136
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,399
Speaker 3: I want to be like that guy. I remember when

1137
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 3: we drafted Paul Skins, Bubba Bubba was in I think

1138
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 3: Bubba Chandler was in Greensboro in hi A.

1139
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 2: When we drafted him.

1140
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 3: I had made a visit and I was talking to

1141
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 3: Bubba and I'm like, I'm like, how you doing.

1142
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: He goes, Tom, I'm so excited. I go about what.

1143
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 2: He goes, We just drafted Paul Skins.

1144
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 3: He's like, I figure you guys are eventually going to

1145
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 3: put him in Altuna and if I keep pitching, well

1146
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 3: I'll be there. And that means I'll be on the

1147
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 3: same team as Paul Skins.

1148
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 2: And then here they are. Now Here they are now

1149
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 2: is as major league tennis.

1150
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 1: Is so good, John, We've been We've been at this

1151
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: for an hour. We could go four more hours. I

1152
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: wrote like twenty things down I want to talk to

1153
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: you about. I got to like two of them. I'm

1154
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: just gonna my last question, and I hope I've got

1155
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: this right. You pitched in a major league game and

1156
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: you got a victory. Do I remember that properly? Would

1157
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 1: you please explain how a catcher could pitch in a

1158
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: major league game and actually get the win?

1159
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, of course. So yeah. So this is July

1160
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 2: twenty nine, two thousand. Team.

1161
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 3: I know this because I know this because the next

1162
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 3: because the next day, the next day, July thirtieth, was

1163
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 3: justin Rugiano's son Brooks had a birthday party at like

1164
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 3: eight in the morning that we were all going to

1165
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 3: go to at an indoor play place in Chicago, and

1166
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 3: so we were playing the Rockies in which was essentially

1167
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 3: the battle for not being the worst.

1168
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 2: Team in the National League.

1169
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,399
Speaker 3: Edwin Jackson started the game for us, which I think

1170
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,919
Speaker 3: is of note given that I think he's pitched for

1171
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:33,439
Speaker 3: Him and Rich Hill are kind of neck and neck.

1172
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 2: It is for the most teams ever.

1173
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and Edwin is it is one of my

1174
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 3: favorite teammates. I think he's probably one of everybody's favorite teammates,

1175
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 3: and in fact, he probably crosses over with more people

1176
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 3: that ever played baseball anyway, and so everybody loves that

1177
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 3: guy universally. But Edwin started the game and kind of

1178
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 3: had a rough go.

1179
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 2: He was out early.

1180
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 3: Our bullpen was cash from the day before, and it

1181
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 3: was one of those days at Wrigley where nobody was

1182
00:54:59,239 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 3: getting hits.

1183
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,359
Speaker 2: And this game dragged on and on and on and on.

1184
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 3: And it got to the point where Pedro I think

1185
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 3: I think it was Hector ron Don was the closer

1186
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 3: and it was either Pedro Stroper hectorn Doan. We were

1187
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,919
Speaker 3: completely unavailable. They had gone like three or four days

1188
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 3: in a row. There's no way Rick Reneria and Brandon

1189
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 3: Hyde we're going to let them pitch. And I was

1190
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 3: thinking about it as the game was going on, and

1191
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 3: I'm looking and looking up and down the dugout and

1192
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 3: I go, no, this may happen given that I am

1193
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 3: probably the most expendable player on this roster, you know,

1194
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,879
Speaker 3: which I think is usually that's usually the qualification. It's

1195
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 3: like the list of like who can pitch that's a

1196
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 3: position player, Just flip it to the guy that like,

1197
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 3: if he went down, we could probably play. So so

1198
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 3: we get to the fourteenth inning and and Brandon Hyde

1199
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 3: comes over.

1200
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 2: He's like, when you think about pitching? I go, he

1201
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 2: absolutely absolutely, I've got it. I've got it. I've got

1202
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 2: a Tommy John fixed elbow. I'm good to go.

1203
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 3: So I went down to the bulleten to warm up,

1204
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 3: and Lester Strode, who had been with the Cubs for

1205
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 3: man twenty five years maybe a wonderful, wonderful coach, and man,

1206
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 3: he's watching me warm up and he's like, what's your

1207
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 3: plan here? And I go, oh, my plan's pretty simple.

1208
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 3: I'm like, have you ever watched batting practice? And he goes, yeah,

1209
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 3: I throw a batting practice all the time, and I go,

1210
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 3: what do guys complain about the most and he's like, oh, good,

1211
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:22,959
Speaker 3: point bad BP.

1212
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 2: And I go, yeah, I'm going to go try to

1213
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 2: throw really bad batting practice on rigid field. That's what

1214
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 2: we're going to do.

1215
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 3: So the first guy, I think popped up foul, and

1216
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 3: then I think Christian Adamas was making his major league debut,

1217
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 3: and I the second hitter was Drew Stubbs, and Drew

1218
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 3: Stubbs popped up behind home plate, and poor Wellington Castillo

1219
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 3: was so tired as he was catching the sixth team,

1220
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 3: he just like didn't make it all the.

1221
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 2: Way back to get the ball. So it fell. It

1222
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 2: fell a foul territory. Then I got I got really

1223
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 2: cute because I had another moment out of the mound

1224
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 2: where I'm.

1225
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 3: Like, you know, if I throw a knuckleball in this game,

1226
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 3: then I can say after this that I am a

1227
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 3: major league knuckleback, and there hasn't been that many of those.

1228
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 3: So then I tried to throw some knuckleballs and threw

1229
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 3: some balls. I end up walking Drew Stubbs, which I'm

1230
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 3: embarrassed by. But then Christian a Damas comes up and

1231
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 3: he had a nice, just an optimal, one hop grounder

1232
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 3: to the second basement. A runnerund first base. We turned

1233
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 3: a double play and got off the field. I let

1234
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 3: off the next inning, in another kind of stroke of

1235
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 3: crazy baseball stuff, I hit a foul ball early in

1236
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 3: that at bat. They brought in Tyler Matzik, who was

1237
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 3: the next day starter, to pitch, and he threw a slider.

1238
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 3: I hit it off the end of the bat. I

1239
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 3: didn't realize it at the time, but I broke my bat.

1240
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 3: So I was hitting would have broken back leading off

1241
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 3: the next inning, and so I walked. I walked to

1242
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 3: get onto first base, which kind of there's two things

1243
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 3: about that one. Like they say on the scoreboard in Cincinnati,

1244
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 3: lead off walks will haunt.

1245
00:57:58,640 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 2: Two.

1246
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 3: He never walked the pitcher when picture you never want

1247
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 3: the pitcher. You always make the picture at the ball.

1248
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 3: But they didn't get that one right. Yeah, So I

1249
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 3: walk found my way to third base. Starlin Caster hit

1250
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 3: a sack fly I scored the winning run. We celebrated

1251
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 3: in the This is in the old home locker room

1252
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 3: at Wrigley Field before THEO and the crew did an

1253
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 3: incredible renovation job in there, So it was like I

1254
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 3: always loved I always loved going there as a visitor too,

1255
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 3: because I was like, was Babe Ruth in this shower? Anyway,

1256
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 3: we celebrated like we won the World Series. I mean

1257
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 3: I got carried through the locker room into the shower.

1258
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 3: I got the beer shower, the shampoo shower, all of

1259
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 3: that stuff.

1260
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 2: And I feel like it was at least for us

1261
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 2: as a group too. It was such a ridiculous.

1262
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 3: Event that when you look at the record that our

1263
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 3: team had that season, it also was like this turning

1264
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 3: point of that franchise and that organization going from the

1265
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 3: lovable losers to then like you know, Hobby Baia's shows

1266
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 3: up and Kyle Schwarber gets drafted, and that was the

1267
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 3: year Arieta became Arieta and Rizzo hit thirty homers for

1268
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 3: the first time, they traded for Addison Russell. Like all

1269
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 3: this stuff kind of started changing right around that period

1270
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 3: of time. And I like to selfishly look back and say,

1271
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 3: like maybe I had a little small part of it

1272
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 3: because I got thrown into some ridiculous situation And people

1273
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 3: ask me, how did you feel when you were pitching?

1274
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 3: And I always say I felt like every single person

1275
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 3: that's in the stands that got pulled, that would have

1276
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 3: gotten pulled into doing something that they'd never done before

1277
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 3: or hadn't done in a long time.

1278
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 2: That's how I felt.

1279
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 3: I felt like both player and fan at the exact

1280
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 3: same time. And it was a it was a wild experience.

1281
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 3: Like I said, the next day, we woke up, went

1282
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 3: to Brooks's birthday party, and then we had a game

1283
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 3: that night which I caught, which also went into extra innings.

1284
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 3: So a lot of free baseball on the North Side

1285
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 3: those couple of days.

1286
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, a crazy thing.

1287
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 3: And I'm also I did one more shout out here.

1288
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 3: I've got a shout out like Bleacher Jeff and Danny

1289
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 3: Rockett and Tony Spangenberg and all the guys that show

1290
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 3: up and buy tickets and go into the left field

1291
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 3: bleachers every single day at Wrigley Field. Whenever I go back,

1292
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 3: I always go up and sit with them for a while. They,

1293
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 3: I mean, they go to every they go to every game.

1294
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 3: They are like the ideal baseball their names.

1295
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and.

1296
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 1: You'll hang out with them when you go back there.

1297
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, yeah. I love those people. I love I

1298
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 2: love I love those people. Danny Rockett.

1299
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 3: Danny Rockett is actually writing a baseball opera. You know,

1300
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 3: my brother's musicians. So they're they're in the Chicago scene.

1301
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 3: But and I really got to know them because, you know,

1302
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 3: after that, like we we got to talking and they

1303
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 3: helped me put on charity events in Chicago to celebrate

1304
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 3: that day. They you know, like Danny Rockett wrote a

1305
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 3: song about it, and we we did the first one

1306
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 3: at the Nisse Lounge. We donated all the money and

1307
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 3: the Nisse Lounge is the oldest part in Wrigley Field,

1308
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 3: and they opened up the taps and said, hey, anybody

1309
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 3: that buys a beer will donate it to whatever charity

1310
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 3: that you want. And we did it to Joe Joe

1311
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 3: Madden's project. We supported the Cargo Battered Women's Hotline. A

1312
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 3: couple of years later had to move on to a

1313
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 3: bigger place. So we ran it for five years in

1314
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 3: a row. We raised money. I would come back every

1315
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 3: year and it was me and the bleacher bums trying

1316
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 3: to raise money for.

1317
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 2: A good cause.

1318
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 3: And yeah, I miss those guys, but I don't really

1319
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 3: miss him because I still talk to him and see you.

1320
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 1: All right, John, Wow, I've known you for twenty years

1321
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 1: at least, and I've never heard any part of that story.

1322
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 1: I'm ashamed I didn't ask you before today, Jeff, do

1323
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: you have anything else for him? Because we have to

1324
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 1: let him go. He's got a flag football game today

1325
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: with Nieces.

1326
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 2: I gotta watch. I gotta go. I gotta go cheer

1327
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 2: on flag football.

1328
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I think my only thing I would add

1329
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 4: is my wife's expecting a baby in June, and Dad,

1330
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 4: maybe if I am at the hospital at some point,

1331
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 4: we'll just have John Baker co host with you for

1332
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 4: the day because it would be a fantastic show. I

1333
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,479
Speaker 4: would listen to that all day, every day.

1334
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: John, that was tremendous. I told you, Jeff, his vocabulary

1335
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 1: it just crushes mine. He's a better writer than I am.

1336
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:04,919
Speaker 1: And pisses me off that he was a major league

1337
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 1: player and he's this well spoken. Never mind, John, enjoy

1338
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: flag football. I will see you somewhere along the way,

1339
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: hopefully soon.

1340
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I appreciate you guys. Thank you.