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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode. I saw what you did.

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Speaker 1: My name is Millie to Jericho, I'm Daniel Henderson, and

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Speaker 1: we're back with you to talk about films and the

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Speaker 1: love of films and our love of films. What's up, Danielle.

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Speaker 2: It's it's been a real thinky week. I've been thinking

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Speaker 2: a lot because of our our films. This week put

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Speaker 2: me in a place to do so, and yeah, it's it's,

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Speaker 2: it's it has got some thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh listen, you know so I'm gonna be like

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Speaker 1: full disclosure right now. You know, we knew this this

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Speaker 1: episode was coming, and when we were like coming up

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Speaker 1: with a theme which which will be revealed shortly, I

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Speaker 1: felt like I felt like, oh, this is such a joyous,

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Speaker 1: fun theme because it's so much about like who we

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Speaker 1: are as people and we get to tell some personal

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Speaker 1: stories and that's always fun. But then I rewatched my

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Speaker 1: film and I essentially spiraled out and I texted Danielle,

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Speaker 1: who has probably the busiest schedule of all my friends

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Speaker 1: right now, like she has literally no time for anybody,

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Speaker 1: let alone my stupid ass, And I was like, I'm

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Speaker 1: freaking out, man, Like you got to call me I

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Speaker 1: got to talk about this movie, you know, for this week,

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Speaker 1: and she was kind enough. We sorted it out eventually,

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Speaker 1: but I was panicked about it.

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Speaker 2: I know, and look, I always have time for you

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Speaker 2: know that. But also I understand the spiral because even

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Speaker 2: when while I was watching my movie, I was like, whoa,

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Speaker 2: I did not I haven't seen this in a while.

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Speaker 2: For one, because our theme, which we will reveal, will

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Speaker 2: indicate why. But I hadn't seen it in so long.

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Speaker 2: And I think what it got me thinking about because

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Speaker 2: I did the true double feature with yours and mine.

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Speaker 2: I did put my grandma to bed after my movie

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Speaker 2: because I was not about to watch her movie with

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Speaker 2: my grandma.

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Speaker 1: Oh ma'am.

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Speaker 2: I mean that motherfucker's got a very good palette. She's

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Speaker 2: got a good palette. But I did not want to

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Speaker 2: talk about it or look at it with her. I

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Speaker 2: did not want to have any conversations. I did not

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Speaker 2: want her to question what was wrong with me. I

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Speaker 2: was like, you gotta go to bed. But I did this,

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Speaker 2: like this true double feature, and it just made me

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Speaker 2: think about something that I think you and I talk

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Speaker 2: about a lot, you know, off the pod, which is

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Speaker 2: like how we watch movies and how we talk about movies.

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Speaker 2: And I think that when you have films like we

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Speaker 2: have this week, which the subject matter is difficult and

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Speaker 2: the visuals are difficult, it makes me spiral and panic

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Speaker 2: a little bit too, because I think there's you know,

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Speaker 2: I know that we have a responsibility to ourselves and

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Speaker 2: to our listeners, and I don't want to be wrong

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Speaker 2: about that, Like I don't want to mess with with

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Speaker 2: expressing how I feel and having it make someone else

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Speaker 2: feel bad or like I didn't say the right thing.

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Speaker 2: But I also feel like what that also made me

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Speaker 2: think of, though, is that I don't know any dudes

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Speaker 2: who do podcasts I think that way. I think it's

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Speaker 2: just a part of being like an empathetic person that

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Speaker 2: we're put in a different place. And I think that

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Speaker 2: because our empathy comes through to our listeners that you know,

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Speaker 2: they they definitely will tell us stuff and tell us

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Speaker 2: how they feel in a way that I don't think

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Speaker 2: a lot of other podcasts get. So I love that

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Speaker 2: and I'm a fan of it, but it's a responsibility.

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Speaker 2: It's a big responsibility, and I never want to I

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Speaker 2: guess what's weird about it? And you know, instead of

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Speaker 2: just dancing around, and I'll just say it. What's weird

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Speaker 2: about it is, you know, you and I are people

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Speaker 2: who have a very specific approach to film and watching,

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Speaker 2: and I think we're open to everything and we can

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Speaker 2: process our own feelings about what we're seeing. But I

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Speaker 2: get nervous sometimes when I'm like, oh wait, because I

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Speaker 2: do this so easily and it comes to me so naturally,

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Speaker 2: I forget that there is a whole visual language that

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Speaker 2: a lot of people just don't ever engage with, and

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Speaker 2: that they're very black and white about things in a

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Speaker 2: way that I'm not. And so that's I think that's

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Speaker 2: where I started to kind of get a little squirrely too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is very This has been front of mine,

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Speaker 1: I think for a long time, and I have lots

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Speaker 1: of thoughts about this, and I'm going to try to

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Speaker 1: be as succinct as possible, but you know, no promises.

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Speaker 1: I feel like part of what I love about doing

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Speaker 1: this podcast is that it is attempting to be inclusive, right.

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Speaker 1: We try not to make this super intellectual or you know,

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Speaker 1: hard to grasp, and because of that, I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who normally haven't watched a lot of

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Speaker 1: films or don't watch a lot of films, gravitate towards

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Speaker 1: it because it feels not like to you know, film dorks,

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Speaker 1: you know, in their tower pontificating about you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: any kind of like really dense esoteric film stuff.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: But it puts me, I think, And I don't know

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Speaker 1: about you. I don't want to speak for you entirely,

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Speaker 1: but it puts me in this weird position sort of

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Speaker 1: as as a film dork. I'm going to admit it

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Speaker 1: as much as you don't want to, or more or

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Speaker 1: less somebody who has studied film for twenty years and

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Speaker 1: is writes about film and you know, is like a

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Speaker 1: film historian of sorts. I have learned through that, through

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Speaker 1: my experience and through my training, a way to sort

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Speaker 1: of compartmentalize feelings about movies. Right, So it isn't black

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Speaker 1: and white for me, right, right, as you said, And

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Speaker 1: I have to remember to that a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that are listening may not have that level of understanding

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Speaker 1: or patience sometimes for movies and to be able to

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Speaker 1: watch things that don't align with their sensibilities or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And it's hard because I'm trying to approach the podcast

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Speaker 1: in a way that I feel like, Okay, so you know,

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Speaker 1: I could pick all these like really hard to find

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Speaker 1: films and talk about them in these like very dense

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Speaker 1: ways or whatever, but how is that going to be

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Speaker 1: inviting to people? And I think that we've done a

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Speaker 1: pretty good job of making that podcast, But it is

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Speaker 1: this issue that comes back and forth between sort of

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Speaker 1: what our responsibility actually is right right, And like I said,

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Speaker 1: I kind of come to it from this viewpoint where

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, like, well, we're here to kind of give

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Speaker 1: our opinions about film. We didn't really make the films, didn't.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think that a film that we bring

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Speaker 1: to the podcast means that we love it or endorse

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Speaker 1: it or something. It's just talking about a movie that

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Speaker 1: we want to talk about in the way that we want.

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Speaker 2: To talk about it exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's sometimes that especially now, it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I think right now there we're in a

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Speaker 1: moment where I think everybody feels like it's really important

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Speaker 1: to have like a firm side on rings and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of times where I'm like it's going to

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Speaker 1: be complicated and I don't know what to say. This

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Speaker 1: is gonna be like, this movie this week that I

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Speaker 1: brought to the table is really challenging. I've seen it

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Speaker 1: at three separate times in my life, which I will

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Speaker 1: discuss in just a moment, and you know, there have

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Speaker 1: been different levels every time and how I feel, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I know that there is stuff in this

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Speaker 1: movie that is going to offend people, and this movie

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Speaker 1: has offended people for so long. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: a very one of the most controversial movies ever made, right,

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Speaker 1: And I just feel like there are times like that

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Speaker 1: that's where the panic comes in. The panic and the

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Speaker 1: and the spiraling come from this idea that maybe I

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Speaker 1: might make somebody watch something that is going to ruin

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Speaker 1: their day.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: But yet at the same time, I'm saying, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: just here to talk about it. I didn't make it,

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Speaker 1: you know, or you know, we're we're sort of not

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Speaker 1: We don't have to promote the film just because we

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Speaker 1: talk about it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that makes any sense, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think it's it's it's a it's an endorsement in

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Speaker 2: a way to even discuss it, But it's not an

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Speaker 2: endorsement of we love it, we hate it. But it's

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Speaker 2: an endorsement of we want to talk about it. I

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Speaker 2: think that every movie we pick for this show is

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Speaker 2: just something we want to talk about. And as you

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Speaker 2: listen to all of the episodes that we've we've had

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Speaker 2: so far, we do talk about complicated things or the

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Speaker 2: feelings that the movies give us, which are not always

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Speaker 2: cut and dry, and I think that is that is

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Speaker 2: very important to me that we're always able to say, like, hey,

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Speaker 2: I chose this movie because I think it fit the

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Speaker 2: theme well, and I want to talk about everything about it,

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Speaker 2: whether I hated it, loved it, it made me feel uncomfortable,

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Speaker 2: it made me feel validated. That's what I love about

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Speaker 2: talking to you about films is that I feel like

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Speaker 2: from the beginning of our friendship we've been able to

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Speaker 2: do that and it's something that I really value. But

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Speaker 2: we didn't have a stage before and so I feel like,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's it's our natural inclination because of who

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Speaker 2: we are, like you said, to be inclusive and to

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Speaker 2: be aware and to be responsible. But it also I

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Speaker 2: don't want that to stifle us. I don't want that

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Speaker 2: to make us feel like well, because we are potentially,

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Speaker 2: you know, very caring about our listeners and what we

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Speaker 2: bring to the show that there are just things that

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Speaker 2: we flat out will never talk about, Like I don't

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Speaker 2: want to be stifled in that way because I'm a

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Speaker 2: Gemini and you can't keep me down so well.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, I don't want to sound too much

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Speaker 1: of a like well that's life, baby, Like You're just

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Speaker 1: gonna have to deal with uncomfortable things and that's just

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Speaker 1: the way it goes. Like I had some like really

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Speaker 1: tough upbringing, but at the same time, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: this moment where I'm like, well, I know a lot

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Speaker 1: of people have problems with content. They don't want to

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Speaker 1: watch certain films that they think are going to offend them.

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Speaker 1: There's so many things online that will tell you, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we always talk about IMDb being a good

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Speaker 1: place where if you want to if you really are

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Speaker 1: a type of person that does like doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: go into blind go and blind into a film and

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Speaker 1: you really want to be prepped, especially if it's something

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Speaker 1: that you have sort of heard about being controversial, like

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Speaker 1: a movie like mine. You know, like some of the

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Speaker 1: movies we've talked about in the podcast, there's a place

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Speaker 1: that you know you will literally lay out all of

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Speaker 1: the content for you. There's a website that'll tell you

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Speaker 1: if the animal in the movie dies. There's so many avenues,

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Speaker 1: more than ever than you know, certainly when you and

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Speaker 1: I were growing up, and so, but I also I

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Speaker 1: agree with you. I don't. I feel like with the

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Speaker 1: proper context, you can talk about every movie, like if you,

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Speaker 1: even things that are terrible and fucked up. And I

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Speaker 1: truly believe that, Like I think having a discussion about

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Speaker 1: a film is powerful and it may not be as

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Speaker 1: scary to watch after you've maybe heard somebody talk about

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Speaker 1: it or heard somebody discuss it. Kind of takes the

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Speaker 1: sting out in some of it. So I don't know,

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Speaker 1: And I think the biggest issue really is, I find

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Speaker 1: is when it's not as when a film is like

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Speaker 1: blatantly totally offensive. It's when it's very ambiguous, when there

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Speaker 1: isn't like when when you watch a film and you

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Speaker 1: see that it's controversial in some way and the message

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Speaker 1: is clear unclear or ambivalent or something that's a hard

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Speaker 1: place to be rightly, and that I think is what

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Speaker 1: creates the chatter and the takes and the everything. A

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Speaker 1: lot of times people make art and they don't know

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Speaker 1: what it means or they don't care, and how do

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Speaker 1: you feel about that?

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Speaker 2: And yeah, you know, and a good A good example

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Speaker 2: too for me is when we talked about the Heiress,

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Speaker 2: and I like, my mind was blown when you said

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Speaker 2: that you've talked to, you know, other film folks and

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Speaker 2: mostly men who felt like that Montgomery clip character really

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Speaker 2: loved her and was really into her. And I'm like, what, like,

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Speaker 2: from my lived experience, in my worldview, it's no question

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Speaker 2: that he was a total shifty motherfucker who was trying

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Speaker 2: to get one over on her. But to have to

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Speaker 2: know that there are like people out there who are

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Speaker 2: apologists for that kind of character, it's still worth time

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Speaker 2: talking about and it's still okay to have that difference.

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Speaker 2: But there are things that you know, we will watch

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Speaker 2: and I think that we even gravitate to that are

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Speaker 2: not as clear cut, and that's because that's what we

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Speaker 2: like about art, and that's what we like about this

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Speaker 2: particular kind of art. And I think it's I think

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Speaker 2: it's okay for us, you know, nearly one hundred episodes

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Speaker 2: in to say that we understand our responsibility and we

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Speaker 2: don't take it lightly. We don't want it to stifle us.

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Speaker 2: But we also you know, want you to have some

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Speaker 2: responsibility as well. So if, like, if you are someone

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Speaker 2: who knows things about yourself, like I will not go

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Speaker 2: into a movie blind because it gives me anxiety, then

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Speaker 2: you know, we want you to do your work too,

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Speaker 2: Like It's part of maybe being an active listener to

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Speaker 2: our podcast is that you know you are able as

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Speaker 2: a listener to say, well, it's not their fault for

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Speaker 2: talking about it, and it's not my fault for not

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Speaker 2: liking it, but I will do some work now now

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Speaker 2: that I know that, like they, they will talk about

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Speaker 2: that I might not always agree with. Disagreement is great.

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Speaker 2: I love a healthy disagreement. I don't like feeling like

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Speaker 2: I can't talk about things because that's just not where

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Speaker 2: I want to be as a person. That's not how

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Speaker 2: I grow as a person. I like being challenged. I

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Speaker 2: like being you know, made to be aware of other

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Speaker 2: people's experiences and thoughts. Again, doesn't mean I always agree

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Speaker 2: with them, but I feel like my growth as a person,

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Speaker 2: and particularly as a person who consumes art, is based

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Speaker 2: in the challenge and based in like, you know, going

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Speaker 2: in blind to things that I'm not sure how I

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Speaker 2: will feel about and processing them in my own way,

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Speaker 2: so I know that, you know, I don't love movies

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Speaker 2: that feature a ton of excessive, inexplicable sexual violence. Do

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Speaker 2: I watch movies like that still sometimes because I didn't

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Speaker 2: know that was going to be in there, and then

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Speaker 2: I have to process it in my own way. So

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Speaker 2: we will, you know. It's kind of the the the

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Speaker 2: general content warning that we give for them, that we're

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Speaker 2: giving for the whole podcast is that, like, we will

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Speaker 2: talk about difficult things sometimes, and hopefully we will talk

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Speaker 2: about them responsibly, and we will always just naturally because

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Speaker 2: of who we are, take different points of view and

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Speaker 2: different experiences into account. But I feel like I know

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Speaker 2: that there have been times where we have felt stifled

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Speaker 2: and where we have felt like in choosing some of

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Speaker 2: the movies or choosing some of our themes, like well,

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Speaker 2: we could never do that. And it's not because it's

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Speaker 2: not it's not because we're just being like egregious and like,

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Speaker 2: you know, this is a straight up snuff film or whatever.

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Speaker 2: But it's just you know, different movies Lord of the Ring,

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Speaker 2: like any movie that you think somebody could have any

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Speaker 2: kind of issue with, it's difficult as a creator to

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Speaker 2: come to a place where you want to be thoughtful,

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Speaker 2: you want to be respectful, but also you want to talk.

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Speaker 2: And that's all I want is I want to make

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Speaker 2: sure that we don't feel like that as much as

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Speaker 2: we have, and that we don't you know that, you

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Speaker 2: know that we're not ever intentionally trying to put our

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Speaker 2: listeners in a weird or bad position. There are tons

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Speaker 2: of content warnings. If there's particular things that you look

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Speaker 2: out for in films as things that you won't ever watch,

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Speaker 2: then just do that work and like have some due diligence,

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Speaker 2: because we do. There are things that we don't talk

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Speaker 2: about because we just don't want to and you know,

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Speaker 2: we each have our own opinions about things that we

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Speaker 2: won't ever watch, and so we don't talk about them.

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Speaker 2: And that's okay. I just don't want to feel like

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess there have been moments where

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Speaker 2: I've been made to feel like people are not giving

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Speaker 2: us the benefit of the doubt or really trying to

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Speaker 2: like admonish us or shame us because we have made

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Speaker 2: a decision to talk about something and you know, not

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Speaker 2: really considering that as people we are pretty responsible and

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Speaker 2: pretty caring and pretty open to discussions. So that's all.

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Speaker 2: I just kind of want to remind ourselves, primarily that

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Speaker 2: we can talk about difficult things and that we have

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Speaker 2: the space to do that. And again, in a very

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Speaker 2: male dominated landscape, I don't see people making the comments

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Speaker 2: that we get to men, and I don't see them

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Speaker 2: making the comments that we get to men who talk

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Speaker 2: about film and you know, particularly like specifically. So I

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Speaker 2: think that just because we are carrying people and open people,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't give it shouldn't be licensed for people to

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Speaker 2: make us feel like shit, he knows, because we're open

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Speaker 2: to hearing everyone. You know, I think a lot of

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Speaker 2: dudes and a lot of people who do have film

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Speaker 2: podcasts like shut that shit down right away by being

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Speaker 2: like fuck you way to Like, we don't want to

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Speaker 2: be that, and we can't be that because it's not

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Speaker 2: who we are. But I just don't want the open

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Speaker 2: heartedness that we come to in this podcast to be like, well,

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Speaker 2: we can just tell these motherfuckers every goddamn thought on

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Speaker 2: our head, that we can tell these motherfuckers exactly how

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Speaker 2: they fucked the fuck up for me personally, you know,

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Speaker 2: we don't want to do that, but we also don't

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Speaker 2: want to be stifled, Like I just I don't want

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Speaker 2: to be stifled.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree, obviously. You know, I keep going

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Speaker 1: back to I mean, this is again I just told

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Speaker 1: I just told everybody. I was like, I'm gonna not

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Speaker 1: be so esoteric, but I am gonna pull some fucking

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Speaker 1: film theory out. I mean, I think images are seductive

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Speaker 1: by nature. You know, film is an inherently glamorous medium.

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Speaker 1: It just is. And that's the hard part is that

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Speaker 1: if you're a filmmaker out there trying to tell this

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Speaker 1: like controversial, fucked up story, you know, there are times

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Speaker 1: where that will seem glamorous because of the nature of

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Speaker 1: the cinema. But because of the nature of film, you're

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Speaker 1: watching images, you know, a lot of times if you're

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Speaker 1: in the movie theater, there as tall as a building,

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Speaker 1: you know exactly, you know, So it's it becomes very

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Speaker 1: immediate and personal to us when we're watching it. And

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Speaker 1: so I think that's where it comes from, is this.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to not be like sensitive when

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Speaker 1: you're watching films. Yeah, and it's hard to not feel

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Speaker 1: like if you're watching something you really don't like to

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Speaker 1: feel like overwhelmed by it because of that. But like

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Speaker 1: I said, I have to remind myself that not everybody

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Speaker 1: has this training and this distance and this stuff that

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Speaker 1: I've developed over the years, you know, And like I said,

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Speaker 1: not to get into this like art appreciation one oh

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Speaker 1: one lecture, but I'm just saying that, like, I have

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Speaker 1: to remember that in an effort to bring in people

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Speaker 1: who are maybe new to film and who are you know,

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Speaker 1: not really you know, we get emails a lot from

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Speaker 1: people that say that they're new to film and they

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Speaker 1: never really watched movies before that, and we love that.

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Speaker 1: We love that. Yeah, but it is a challenge sometimes

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Speaker 1: to remind myself like that not everybody is this hard

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Speaker 1: ass film bit who's been in these streets forever watching

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Speaker 1: these terribly controversial films. I mean, it's it's I have

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Speaker 1: to remember, like not everybody saw Cannibal Holocaust alone on

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Speaker 1: Valentine's Day.

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Speaker 2: I mean they should. No, as far as I'm concerned,

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Speaker 2: everyone should try it at least once. Yes, yes, and

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Speaker 2: it is and it is true like that is it

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Speaker 2: is a responsibility that we take seriously and that we

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Speaker 2: will take on. And it hurts it, it does hurt

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Speaker 2: my feelings. I think if anything's bound to hurt my feelings,

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Speaker 2: it's when it's when someone in my life or you know,

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Speaker 2: who's consuming any of the art I make. If somebody

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Speaker 2: says like you know, oh I thought you were better

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Speaker 2: than this, or like you know, something along those lines,

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Speaker 2: like I just it hurts my feelings to think like, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: either you thought I was you think I'm a piece

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Speaker 2: of shit now, or you thought I was a person

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Speaker 2: who didn't have the intellectual capability to process something differently

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Speaker 2: than you like. It's just not either way. It's just

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Speaker 2: not a good thing to hear or feel. And I

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Speaker 2: don't think that I don't see us continuing on with

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Speaker 2: this if we constantly feel like either one our feelings

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Speaker 2: are getting hurt or two we can't say we want

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Speaker 2: to actually say, like podcasting is a vocal medium, duh,

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Speaker 2: And if we do make egregious mistakes or outright mistakes,

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Speaker 2: we apologize. I don't want to have to come to

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Speaker 2: this podcast apologetically in anticipation of somebody might not like

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Speaker 2: what I have to say. I think it's a factor

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Speaker 2: of being a person in the world that you can

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Speaker 2: assume people might not like what you have to say,

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Speaker 2: and that's all I think. We just, you know, we

396
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Speaker 2: want to be we want to have fun with you,

397
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Speaker 2: and I think that that part of that fun is

398
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Speaker 2: that we are smart and cool people, and you know,

399
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Speaker 2: just the reminder of like how we work will maybe

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Speaker 2: help some people who are either new to the podcast

401
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Speaker 2: or new to films and new to all of this.

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Speaker 2: We like the inclusiveness that we have fostered. It was

403
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Speaker 2: intentional when we set out to do this podcast. We

404
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Speaker 2: could very easily have done one of the let's talk

405
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Speaker 2: for five hours about Kubrick podcasts, but you and I

406
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Speaker 2: both I mean, I think we could have done it

407
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Speaker 2: for like two episodes, but you and I both kind

408
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Speaker 2: of decided to even decided to create this and do

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Speaker 2: this because we want to be inclusive and accessible. So

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Speaker 2: it's important to us that we remain so, and we

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Speaker 2: just kind of want the same respect and turn that

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Speaker 2: your inclusivity of us and your thoughtfulness of us is

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Speaker 2: you know, in doing that, that you're just reminded that

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Speaker 2: we're we're whole, entire ass people and that we are

415
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Speaker 2: both very smart and we are both you know, thinking

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Speaker 2: about all the things you're thinking about, but possibly different

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Speaker 2: and it's in a different way and it's okay. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think you know, when I look back at, you know,

419
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Speaker 2: the things that we edit out and cut out, and

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Speaker 2: it's not like we have a whole like filth reel

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Speaker 2: sitting out there where it's like, oh my god, these

422
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Speaker 2: two are just being offensive for the fuck of it.

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Speaker 2: That's not it at all. It's just that, you know,

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Speaker 2: when we pick movies, it's because we are making a

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Speaker 2: podcast for us that we want to talk about these movies.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's a joy that we're able to

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Speaker 2: talk about them creatively and from a different lens. And

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Speaker 2: sometimes that is for you and sometimes it's not, And

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Speaker 2: it's okay. It's also okay to me, even in the

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Speaker 2: the effort of trying to be as inclusive as possible

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Speaker 2: and as accessible as possible, it's still okay for me.

432
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 2: If we're not for everyone, like, that's fine.

433
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean your mileage bay vary with every fucking

434
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: thing out there. Like it's it's that thing where I'm like, Okay,

435
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: some people think we're we're you know, picking hard films,

436
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: and then other people think we don't go hard enough.

437
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: It's it, you don't know every everything is different. We're

438
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: just doing what we want to do to the best

439
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: of our abilities. We hope that you appreciate and are

440
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: on the ride with us. We would love it if

441
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: you were. I like you said earlier, I feel like

442
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: we're doing a good job of keeping you guys aware

443
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: of like the content and the trigger warnings and everything

444
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: like that, because quite frankly, there's a lot of film

445
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 1: podcasts that don't give a fuck about that at all.

446
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, hell yeah.

447
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: They're like, fucking deal with it.

448
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, They're like, there's we don't give a shit if

449
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: there's forty five dildos in this scene.

450
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 2: Like I will always give a warning for more than

451
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 2: three dildos.

452
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 1: Well, we have this dildo meter back here that we

453
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: have we need to dust off because it's we had.

454
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 2: A custom made so we might as well use it.

455
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 2: But yeah, like I exactly like I think, and that

456
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: something else that comes up for me a lot and

457
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: that you know, I don't know, and maybe this is

458
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: something we can just one day ask people directly or

459
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: find out a way to kind of pull how people

460
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 2: are feeling. I don't know always because I'm not as

461
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: easily I'm not offended by a lot of things. So

462
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: I don't know what will be offensive to people, and

463
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: I think it's a slippery slope sometimes of trying to

464
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: guess what will be offensive to people. Yes, and so

465
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just I kind of long, a long, long,

466
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 2: long time ago, before podcast even existed, I decided that

467
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 2: I did not want to live my life in a

468
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 2: way that felt like I couldn't talk about the things

469
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 2: I want to talk about, and I didn't want to

470
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: live my life in a way that made me feel

471
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: small and shut down. And so in everything I do

472
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 2: in life, I carry forth a lot of kindness and

473
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: generosity and love, and I want to be able to

474
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 2: continue to do that. When I talk about films, you know,

475
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: I'm even in I don't know. In the the job

476
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: I have right now, which we've talked about a little bit,

477
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 2: I hear from so many people all the time that like,

478
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 2: oh wow, like I've never met a showrunner who was

479
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 2: nice or who was thoughtful, or who was this or

480
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: who was that? And I'm like, well, it's because I

481
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: I don't feel the need to replicate the behaviors that

482
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: I've seen in order to get the job done. And

483
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: I think we bring that same attitude to the podcast, Like,

484
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 2: I don't feel the need to replicate like a fucking

485
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 2: Andrew Dice Clay approach to things to get people to

486
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 2: listen to us or hear us or like us. You know,

487
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that in any part of

488
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 2: my life, but it helps me to make art and

489
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 2: to be creative if I know that that we're being

490
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 2: given that benefit of the doubt. Yeah, doesn't mean you'll

491
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: like what we say or agreeve with us, but that

492
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: you're not like personally trying to insult us as human

493
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: beings because you don't like the way we approach something.

494
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there have been so many times where

495
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: I thought, like when we did that rear Window episode

496
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 1: and I talked about a scenario in which Jimmy Stewart's

497
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: boner cracked his body cast in half. I thought I

498
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: was going to be excommunicated from every community that I

499
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: believed to.

500
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: Oh don't even I mean, how hard did I go

501
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 2: on Gregory Peck thinking, Oh, Grandma's and his family and

502
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: relatives and the movie industry at large is going to

503
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: forever excommunicate me. Yeah, well, this is the other thing

504
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 2: I think that our comedy sensibilities might not be for everyone,

505
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: and that's fine with me. Yes, I again learned that

506
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 2: a long time ago. My family stopped laughing at my

507
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: ass when I was seven years old. They're like, you

508
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: are not funny. That is annoying, and I was like,

509
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 2: all right, all right, bye, I'll find other people like.

510
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: That's how I made friends and learned how to be

511
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 2: a person. Is like Mike, comedy is what I find

512
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: funny is not for everyone. And that's okay because I'm

513
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: not laughing at like the horror of the human condition,

514
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 2: or I try not to laugh at the horror of

515
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: the human condition when it doesn't serve me or when

516
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 2: it makes someone feel bad. I don't know. This is

517
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: just it's a lot of words to say, like we

518
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: ain't bad. It's okay if you don't want to watch

519
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: the movies. Don't make us feel bad for choosing them.

520
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: Well, and just and just know that, like you know,

521
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: movies are, they contain multitudes. And like I said, if

522
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: you truly have you know, thoughts and feelings about watching

523
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: things blind, plenty of places on the Internet that will

524
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: tell you exactly what you need to know about a

525
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: movie before you watch it. Just go to letterbox. You

526
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: can hear like every person on planet Earth pontificate on

527
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: every aspect of film. It's it's out there for you.

528
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: The information is out there in a way that it

529
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: wasn't for me, probably for you too. We're in a

530
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: true age of information. Uh So if for some reason

531
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: we don't, you know, bring it up, it's not because

532
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: we're being insensitive or that we didn't know, right, you know,

533
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: so right, that's that I listen. Thank you for talking

534
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: this out with me, Danielle, Thank you guys for listening,

535
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: just of.

536
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: Course, and maybe maybe it'll just behoove us. Like we'll

537
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: throw a couple of links in our link tree for like,

538
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: if you here are places you can go if you

539
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: want to learn about movies before you watch them. That's okay,

540
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: m h, I could throw a link up in a

541
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: link tree.

542
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think one of them is does the doogdie

543
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: dot Com? I think that's isn't that the website?

544
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

545
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: Very helpful, very help very helpful. Well listen, now that

546
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: we've like psyched you guys up for this episode.

547
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: Our listeners were like, the fuck is going on here?

548
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: Everyone is fast forwarded to this point. They're like, we

549
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 2: do not care. No, I'm kidding. I think this all

550
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 2: kind of became more more clear for us and more

551
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: evident for us, and brought up more feelings for us

552
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 2: when we picked these movies. Like, I think we've both

553
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 2: been feeling like on edge since we even picked this

554
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: theme and these films. So it's not surprising to me

555
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: that we both had to talk it out this week,

556
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: like at all.

557
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. And it's like, I don't think we

558
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: came in with this intention to We thought it was

559
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: just going to be more freewheeling than it actually became,

560
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: and then it accidentally started making us think. So that

561
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: do happen Sometimes Sometimes.

562
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: It be like that and we hate it every time.

563
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: I know. Well, okay, so let's not let's just give

564
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: them the theme, tell them what the theme is this week.

565
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, the theme which will explain so much of what

566
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 2: we just said. Our theme this week is I was

567
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: way too young for this.

568
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

569
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,239
Speaker 2: Now, you you have famously told us already in this

570
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 2: podcast how you first came to your film.

571
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: Oh, to remind people, Sure, I listen, I'm on record

572
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: saying this many and many places, So I apologize if

573
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: you've heard this story from me before. But Essentially, when

574
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: I was eight years old, I watched my movie which

575
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: will be revealed in just a second, but it it

576
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: was totally a turning point in my life at that

577
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: young age because I had I kind of don't even

578
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: remember watching movies before this movie, if that makes sense, Like, yeah,

579
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: it does. It's like a before Christ after Christ scenario

580
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: for me, like couldn't couldn't tell you. I mean, I

581
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: think I watched ET like when it kept on DHS,

582
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: but I don't actually remember like this movie. I remember.

583
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 1: This is like the first movie that I remember watching

584
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: and processing. And essentially the story is I was over

585
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: at the neighbor's house at the time. Their stepdad was

586
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: in the Navy, and if you guys have navy dads

587
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: or like a military brat, you will know that navy

588
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: dads go out on the ship for months at a time.

589
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: And so there were a lot of times where myself

590
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: in my own family, but also at the neighbor's house,

591
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: were totally unsupervised.

592
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: Yea.

593
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: And this was I think inherent to the era which

594
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: we sort of talked about a little bit with Leida

595
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: when she was on our episode a while back. And

596
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: so we were just out in the in the base.

597
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: It wasn't really a basement. I think it's called a den.

598
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: It's like a dim it's not a basement. It's like

599
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: but it's below the living room. That makes sense. And

600
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: their stepdad had walls and walls of like VHS tapes

601
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 1: that he had recorded with handwritten labels, and we just

602
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: looked at the tape and put it in and that

603
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: is what happened. And we sat through this movie and

604
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: it broke my brain. It fucking destroyed me. I mean,

605
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: part of I think it says a lot about me

606
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: that this was my first movie, because then later I became,

607
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: you know, a programmer of like cult movies, and I

608
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: wrote a book about cult movies and stuff. So I

609
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, this had to have been the moment

610
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: where something activated for me.

611
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, And we will talk about that when

612
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: we talk about your film, because I have questions for

613
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 2: sure about how it affected you, how it landed on you,

614
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: like all of that, and I think that it's it's again.

615
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: It was indicative of a time that we had so

616
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: much time to be on supervised that we could discover

617
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: things for better and worse that would affect us deeply.

618
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 2: For years to come, and my film is definitely one

619
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: of those for me. I think I saw it twice

620
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 2: in my younger life, and both times I was too

621
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: young for it. Yeah, and it's strange because it doesn't

622
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 2: seem like a movie that would have that effect, but

623
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: I think, and I'll get into it, but I think

624
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 2: I was just too young both times for very different reasons.

625
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 2: And it's it's pivotal. That kind of shit is pivotal

626
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 2: because you realize a couple of things. I think I

627
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 2: realized that one art could look different, that movies were

628
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 2: not just like the family movies that I always watched

629
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 2: that were made for kids and made to make us

630
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 2: feel good or whatever. It opened my eyes to a

631
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: world of oh wait, art exists, and it's not always

632
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: pretty or fun. But it also I think influenced me

633
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: in a weird way, which we'll talk about, Like there's

634
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 2: there's a real like that line in high fidelity what

635
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 2: came first? The music or the misery? The music or

636
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 2: the madness? And I feel like that about a lot

637
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 2: of movies that I've seen, like what came first? That

638
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 2: I had a horribly depressing childhood, or that I watched

639
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 2: a lot of horribly depressing movies that impacted my view

640
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 2: of the world. Yeah, so I don't know, man, like

641
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 2: this this movie has all My movie has always stuck

642
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: with me in a way that made me question that

643
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 2: like if I had not seen this movie with certain

644
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: things have been implanted in my brain and your movie

645
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: I saw for the first time when I was like sixteen,

646
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 2: I still think I was too young for I'm forty five.

647
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: I still think I'm too young for it. Like, oh,

648
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 2: your movie fucked me all the way up, no matter

649
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 2: when I saw it, like it still fucks me all

650
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 2: the way.

651
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: Up, one hundred fucking percent. And I will say to

652
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: you for your film, I was really excited that you

653
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: brought this to the table because I'm a huge fan

654
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: of movie. I even have a shirt I have. I

655
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: don't know if everybody any or anybody knows Built by Wendy,

656
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: the company that made all those like cool clothes in

657
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: the nineties and two thousands, but she she used to

658
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: make a shirt of your film, and I have it somewhere.

659
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: I have to find it.

660
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 2: But Built by Wendy is the one who made my

661
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 2: my slapshot T shirt exactly exactly.

662
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: We should try to get hurt on the podcast, and

663
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: that would be so fun. But the weirdest thing about

664
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: your movie and this is like, this is something I've

665
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 1: seen your movie several times obviously, but then it really

666
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: hit me this time when I rewatched it. It's like

667
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: it's got this like backdoor quality to it where you're like, oh,

668
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: this seems like it's gonna be this like tea. It

669
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: almost feels like an after school special. But then it

670
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 1: gets really fucking serious, so bleak yes. And then I'm like, oh,

671
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: I feel like there's probably a lot of people like

672
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: you that came to that movie thinking, Oh, I'm just

673
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: gonna watch like these cool you know, these teenagers doing

674
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: teenage stuff, and then you're like, oh, wait a minute,

675
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: it's like this whole other thing, like wow.

676
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 2: And I have to say, in general, and with both

677
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: of our films, I think that's also where I learn

678
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: to appreciate that quality. I like a movie that surprises

679
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 2: me and that will have a twist or a turn

680
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 2: or I go in thinking one way and I leave

681
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: feeling like, oh my god, Like I like that quality

682
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: and I seek it out in a lot of movies

683
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 2: that it's not what you thought it was going to

684
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 2: be and it'll make you think about the human condition

685
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 2: in a different way or at all. I love those

686
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: those kinds of movies, and I think it starts with this.

687
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 1: Absolutely agree. If you want evidence of this, please listen

688
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: to our episode with border that and listen. It may

689
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: sounded like I was traumatized by that, and yes I was,

690
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I mean, what an amazing

691
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 1: experience to be rattled by a film. You know, as

692
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: somebody who has watched so many movies and has worked in,

693
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 1: you know, this weird fucking area of filmdom for so long,

694
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I'm still fucking like shocked my movies.

695
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: That's pretty yes, awesome, you know, yes.

696
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 2: It is why I wear it like a weird badge

697
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 2: of honor. When you're like, I have been rocked to

698
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 2: my core and I'm like, great, I found something that

699
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: made this old timer a little bit freaked out. And

700
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 2: what was the last time that happened. This is someone

701
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 2: who programs John Waters movies for goddamn living, and I

702
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 2: freaked her out, Like yay us.

703
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: Yes, congratulations, you didn't.

704
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 2: But I love that for you, like as a film

705
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 2: watcher and as someone who is in my eyes, a

706
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 2: film historian, someone who truly loves movies. I love that

707
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: you can still have that experience.

708
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's yeah, it's fun. Despite all of my like

709
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: consternation in the moment when we're recording, I truly I

710
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 1: was actually thinking the other day I should watch Border again.

711
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 1: Let's give that another fucking spin. You know, yes, I know, No, oh.

712
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 3: My, I love I love that more than you know,

713
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 3: especially because you you instagram messaged me a picture when

714
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 3: you said just one word border and it.

715
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 2: Was a picture I'm a heavily pregnant woman standing in

716
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: profile on a beach and there was like a little

717
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 2: baby's arm coming out like there was there was clearly

718
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 2: a kid like behind her or next to her, but

719
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 2: the way the picture was shot, you couldn't see the kid.

720
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 2: You only saw the arm, and you were like, one

721
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 2: word border, and I'm like, I have ruined this motherfucker's life.

722
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 2: It looked like the arm was coming right out of

723
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 2: the crouch.

724
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that was a private joke.

725
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,720
Speaker 2: No, I'm kidding, but I love I love the notion

726
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 2: of you watching Border again.

727
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I listen. I don't know. I feel like I

728
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 1: won't probably watch Hereditary again, but i'd get born on

729
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 1: another spin.

730
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 2: You don't want to see Tony Collett's song her Own

731
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 2: Head Off again.

732
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of head trauma in that

733
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: movie that I just can't. I can't, you know, And

734
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: like listen, it's not not all the time that I

735
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 1: would rewatch something like Border, but I really feel like it.

736
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: I need to understand it a little bit more and

737
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: I want to. And you know, I mean so much

738
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: of doing this podcast too, is just like we're just

739
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: chugging through the movies because it's like we're just doing

740
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: the podcast every week and I watch so many fucking

741
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: movies like ever for all of my jobs that I'm

742
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: just like sometimes I'm just like, all right, what's next?

743
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: What's next? So for me, it feels like Border needs

744
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: to come back again, make make a reappearance. So you

745
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: might be getting some more texts.

746
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,959
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, look, come come visit. We'll watch it. It'll

747
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 2: be great. But yeah, I feel the same way, Like

748
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 2: I like, I like that, you know again, like as

749
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 2: someone who likes to be challenged by films, who likes

750
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 2: to watch things at different points in my life, like

751
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 2: I'm always down for that, and I think that, you know,

752
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 2: for this week in particular. I'm really happy that we

753
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 2: are going to get to talk about about these movies

754
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 2: because I've always wanted to and you're a first and

755
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 2: I don't know if you just want to get into it.

756
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just going to get into it. So, okay,

757
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: my movie for the theme I was way too young

758
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: for this is a movie that was made in nineteen

759
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: seventy one. Screenplay is by Stanley Kubrick, based on a

760
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 1: novel of the same name by Anthony Burgess, directed by

761
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: Stanley Kubrick. Of course, it's called a Clockwork Orange.

762
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 3: Oh it was gorgeousness and gorgeousity made flash.

763
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: Okay, so well you know we were been dancing around

764
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 1: this for the past thirty so minutes. So here's the thing.

765
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: So I've seen this movie three times in my life,

766
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: all at different points. Like I mentioned, once when I

767
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: was eight years old. I just discussed that, once as

768
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: a team major when I was in high school, and

769
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: then once a week ago as a woman in her forties.

770
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: So that's those are the three times. Okay. So I'm

771
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: going to try to talk about it first as I

772
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: watched it as a child, because I feel like that

773
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: is a completely different sensory experience than it was when

774
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: I watched it a week ago, obviously, but like for me,

775
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: a clockwork Orange is almost if you think about it,

776
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the perfect movie for a kid

777
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: to accidentally watch and be traumatized by what it cares abothing. Well, right,

778
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,919
Speaker 1: because here's what I think, And this is coming from

779
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: my eight year old mind, because obviously I have experience

780
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: first hand experience with this, Okay, So I think it's

781
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: not just the era that it was made. So like,

782
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about this in the zard Oss

783
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 1: episode seventies film. They were really trying it. Oh yeah,

784
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 1: So there's this countercultural vibe that kind of goes through

785
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: this film, right. But then also Kubrick can't and I

786
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: that this is a part of his like visual style.

787
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's bright, it's modern. There's wild set pieces,

788
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: wild costumes, there's pop art everywhere. We'll get to that

789
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: in a second. The lead character of this film speaks

790
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: in a slang, right, and it sounds like a secret language,

791
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: and it kind of was a secret language. I mean,

792
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: it's called mad sad is how what it was called.

793
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: But it was apparently written in the original book that

794
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: Anthony Bailey.

795
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the question I have too, is like I

796
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 2: never read the book. Me neither, so I don't know

797
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 2: how loyal this was to the film was to the book.

798
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was a whole new language.

799
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was supposed to have been sort of

800
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: a mix between like cockne rhyming meets Russian, like I

801
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: think the term nad set is a Russian word. H

802
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: But yeah, So there's all this stuff going on with

803
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: this film. There's some really goofy comedic moments in it.

804
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: So it's what I'm saying is that there's moments where

805
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: I feel like, well, for an eight year old, you know, yeah,

806
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: maybe as a kid, you're watching this thing and there's

807
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: all these like bright colors and funny, weird people screaming

808
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: and stuff, and you're and but you're like, Okay, I

809
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: can see why I turned it on, right, right, But

810
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: also all of this is baked inside this unbelievably violent

811
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: and sexual story, which was the part that horrified me

812
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: and changed my life forever.

813
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 2: Okay, did you watch the whole movie the first time

814
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 2: you watched it? Uh?

815
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: Yes, oh yes, oh my hand. I didn't mention this

816
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: in the beginning, but so we sat and watched the

817
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 1: whole thing, which I think it's a two hour over

818
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: two hour movie. Yeah, I don't know why nobody came

819
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: down in two hours to be like, what do you know?

820
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 2: Again, the level of negligence is so hard to explain

821
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: to the modern generation. Hours would go by before anyone

822
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 2: would think they're like, what are they doing down there?

823
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 2: You could have stabbed someone in the goddamn face Bouceemi style, yeah,

824
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: and nobody would find you for two hours.

825
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: So it's this thing where I'm like, okay, nobody checked

826
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: on us. But then also too, like I talked about this,

827
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 1: I think maybe on a bonus where I said we

828
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: actually forgot what it was called, and I thought I

829
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: personally thought it was called Strawberry Alarm Clock, which is

830
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: actually not a movie. It's a band from the sixties.

831
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 2: It's my favorite detail.

832
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: I know what I was like, you know, oh, I

833
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: watched it, and I think I carry that out like

834
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: maybe to middle school, where I was like, oh, I

835
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: watched this movie when I was a called Strawberry Alarm Clock,

836
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: and they're like, what the fuck are you talking about?

837
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: And somebody, some dude probably actually it's called a clockwork

838
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 1: orange and you got.

839
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 2: That wrong, and then he like grew a pair of

840
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 2: glasses on his face and a goatee. It just like

841
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 2: sprouted as you were talking.

842
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: Yes, so I'm sure I was corrected by a man,

843
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: But listen.

844
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 2: I mean that's my other question though, is like, okay,

845
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 2: so you watched the whole thing. My other, my true,

846
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: other question that I'm just like dying to know is

847
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 2: how were you able to even process what you were

848
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 2: what you were seeing? Like? Did you know what anatomy

849
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 2: looked like? Did you know what violence was like? What

850
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,720
Speaker 2: were you processing or able to process as you watched.

851
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: Pretty much nothing? I mean, I I think I had

852
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: seen boobs on TV before because another phenomenon when we

853
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 1: were growing up was the Playboy channel that would come

854
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 1: in crinkly on the cable. So yep, every kid I

855
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: knew had seen that. So I'm pretty sure I knew

856
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: what boobs were well.

857
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 2: And as we discussed in a previous episode, like boobs

858
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 2: were not, boobs are everywhere in the eighties, like every

859
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 2: frontal female nudity was all over the place.

860
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: One hundred definitely had not seen a dick or of

861
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: any kind. Maybe maybe an art. Maybe art, I don't know,

862
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: but like not we if that's weird to say, I'll

863
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: cut it.

864
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 2: You know, no it's not, because that's Look, this is

865
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 2: what we're talking about, Like there are you go to

866
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: a museum, your parents can't shield you from the whole

867
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 2: wing of the museum where you might see a dick

868
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 2: in a picture or on a statue.

869
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and it's listen. I I a fear. Another

870
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 1: fear that I spiraled out about when doing this research

871
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: about the movie was this idea that people were going

872
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: to think that you know, there were all these monstrous parents, negligent,

873
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: monstrous parents around while their children were being traumatized. I

874
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: could I will say for me, it was not that,

875
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: like these weren't bad parents, They just were doing the

876
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: best they could. And also it was a different fucking time.

877
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 2: So well, also, this is this is a good point,

878
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 2: Like the age that you're talking about is when kids

879
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 2: start to explore, Like, no matter how hemmed in you

880
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 2: try to make your life so your kids never see

881
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 2: anything bad, They're gonna see it. They're gonna seek out

882
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 2: some shit. They're gonna meet one friend who's like the

883
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 2: porn in the woods friend.

884
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're.

885
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 2: Gonna find out this shit. So it has nothing to

886
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 2: do with the types of parenting. Even though the neglect

887
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 2: was astounding in the eighties, it was a lot of

888
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: people doing the best they could. It was a lot

889
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 2: of moms going back to the workforce for the first time.

890
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 2: On mass it was a lot of you know, dad's

891
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 2: being a way and like growing up with grandparents and like,

892
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: it was just a shift that allowed that natural curiosity

893
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 2: that kids have to just kind of flourish a little bit.

894
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And when I I mean, you know, I

895
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 1: use the term traumatized in the sense that it was

896
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: the images were traumatic when I saw them, But I

897
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: don't feel like I I am insatiably curious about things.

898
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: Maybe it's two a fault. I'm a total cure, is George.

899
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: I am literally followed off of the windowsill, Like anytime

900
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: I want to look out, I want to see, I

901
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: want to see and do it. So it's that thing

902
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: where if it if it hadn't happened at eight, it

903
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: would have happened in some other movie in some other time,

904
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 1: it just would totally. So there's that. But it is

905
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: just a funny circumstance to have watched this movie so young.

906
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: But here's the thing, though, I like, we gotta fast

907
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: forward to high school, because so that happened when I

908
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: was eight years old, and it was very like, oh

909
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 1: my god, I have no concept of what this is,

910
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: but I'm watching images and I know that I'm scared,

911
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm also like sort of you know, it's

912
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: it's titillating, it's uh weird, uh, and all this stuff.

913
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: So all these things are happening, and then fast forward

914
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:52,399
Speaker 1: to high school, where everybody that I knew loved this movie.

915
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely and the weirdest possible. That's why I saw it

916
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 2: when I when I did is because somebody in my life,

917
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 2: when am I my friends, was like, this is a

918
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 2: movie we have to see. You're gonna fucking shit, You're

919
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: gonna love it, and I'm like, what's it about. I

920
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 2: can't tell you. It's so weird. And because I think

921
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 2: we were at a point where, again, when you're a teenager,

922
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 2: you're looking for the countercultural thing, you're looking for the

923
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: you are looking to be freaked out. A lot of

924
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 2: the time, you are looking to be tillated and excited

925
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 2: and like doing something that's taboo. So if you hear

926
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 2: about this controversial movie, you are going to seek it

927
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 2: out nine times out of ten, one hundred percent.

928
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I mean sometimes I have

929
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: to remind younger people that I'm friends with, like this

930
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: was an era where like the punk kids wore like

931
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,399
Speaker 1: Charles Manson T shirts and fucking like I remember going

932
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: through like horror movie magazines and skateboard magazines, you know,

933
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: all these like places downtown where you would go and

934
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 1: shop for like, you know, cool stuff, you know, Doc

935
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: Martin's and you know, clothes. They T shirts were like

936
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:06,479
Speaker 1: Jehn Wayne Gacy and Charles Manson, you know, clockwork oarngs.

937
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: It was just like this thing where like there were

938
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: like no stakes back then. Kids just wanted they just

939
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: wanted to be provocative and they wanted to rebel, and

940
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: it was just that was it. That was really it.

941
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: There was no like big thought behind it. It was

942
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: just fucking like, yeah, this guy's a fucking badass. Yeah

943
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: he's weird and crazy, you know, and I'm just like, Okay,

944
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 1: that's it. That's all that people wanted at that time.

945
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 2: That is all that and the more the way to

946
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,760
Speaker 2: be provocative in the nineties and in the world without

947
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: the Internet was by word of mouth, like finding out

948
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 2: what was weird, seeing what was weird, going to these

949
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: kinds of you know, dens of iniquity of society and

950
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 2: picking and choosing what you think would weird people out

951
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 2: the most. And it was a very it was a

952
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:00,439
Speaker 2: very standoffish time. Like I think it was a type

953
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 2: of fashion, a type of listening, a type of watching

954
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 2: that made it clear to people that you didn't care

955
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 2: about their opinion, you didn't want it, you didn't want

956
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,919
Speaker 2: to be It wasn't even about being seen as much.

957
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 2: It was more about like get away from me. Like

958
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 2: there was no bigger sign of don't fucking talk to me,

959
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 2: get the fuck away from me than like I'm a

960
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 2: fourteen year old and a clockwork orange shirt.

961
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. And like here's the ironic part about all

962
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: this too, It's like it got it was so prevalent

963
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: that it kind of got played out a little bit

964
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: for me where suddenly now I would go see like

965
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: a SKA band, or I'd go to like britpop night

966
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:40,800
Speaker 1: and it's just be like, you know, these guys wearing

967
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: the shirts or they would maybe sometimes be wearing like

968
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: the bowler hat and the eyelashes and stuff, and I'd

969
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: just be like, man, this is dorky, like what is

970
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 1: going on with this? And then everybody dressed like the

971
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 1: drugs for Halloween and I just was like, this is

972
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: getting a little played out for me, you.

973
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 2: Know, like absolutely, it's weird, very weird how that happens.

974
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 2: We're like, this was once the most provocative thing I've

975
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 2: ever seen in my life, and now I'm sick of

976
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 2: it and it seems boring and weird.

977
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh no, I know, it's so crazy how that happens.

978
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: But then here's the thing. So that was high school.

979
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: Rewatched it in high school with all my dumb friends

980
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: and we were like, yeah, cool whatever. Uh then I

981
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 1: got played out. Then I have not seen it since.

982
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: I just and I think it was that I was

983
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: informed by that high school thing where I was like, yeah, okay,

984
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 1: that's a real like weird, crazy movie and all you're

985
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: so you're such an edge lord, you know whatever, like

986
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 1: you love it, but then you know, I don't know.

987
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: And then then I started thinking, well, like maybe this,

988
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,240
Speaker 1: you know, needs a I need to watch it again

989
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: because now I'm a fucking grown ass woman and I

990
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 1: want to see it again, and I gotta tell you,

991
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I I felt unpleasant when watching it. I

992
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: had a bad sleep. I texted you and I messaged

993
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 1: you and Casey Casey are a poor producer has to

994
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: like sit through us having you know, breakdowns, and was

995
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: just basically like, I don't know, this movie is so

996
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: violent and insane and I don't really know what I

997
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: think of it. But here's the thing. All that, all that,

998
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: having said that is age. That is age for me.

999
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: For me, it's age because I gotta say, there's a

1000
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 1: lot a lot of weird movies, cult stuff, provocative stuff

1001
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 1: that I used to love in my teen ears that

1002
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: I just can't watch for various reasons. And I kind

1003
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: of think of it. I know, I joked about that

1004
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: like Hannibal Holocaust thing, but like I kind of think

1005
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,479
Speaker 1: of it as like it's kind of like aging into

1006
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,919
Speaker 1: lactose intolerance or something. It's like you're like a kid

1007
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: and you're running around drinking milk with every meal, and

1008
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, it's like you have one

1009
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: spoonful of ice cream and you're just like instant diarrhea.

1010
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,919
Speaker 1: That's how I feel about some of these movies where

1011
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, I used to love it, and

1012
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 1: now I can't. I just can't stomach it. It's not

1013
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 1: what's going on. I fail you.

1014
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 2: And I think that it's age in a way that

1015
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 2: like you have now spent so many years being part

1016
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 2: of the world and not just observing the world, that

1017
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 2: some of that shit is just tiring, where you're like,

1018
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,879
Speaker 2: I cannot engage with this shit, knowing what the world

1019
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 2: is like and what my world is like day to day,

1020
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:22,800
Speaker 2: I cannot give time or credence to this shit anymore.

1021
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's and it's true that when you're a

1022
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: young person, it just means more. There's just you just

1023
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: want it. I wanted so badly to affiliate with rebellion

1024
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 1: and weird things. I wanted to be so weird. I mean,

1025
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,280
Speaker 1: my parents were the most boring people on the planet.

1026
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 1: I love them, but they were boring, and so I

1027
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,720
Speaker 1: was like, you know, it's kind of like that pat

1028
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: Olswalt joke that he tells on one of his albums

1029
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: about how he had these boring government employee parents and

1030
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 1: it made him want to go out there and like

1031
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: worship Satan. That's kind of the way it was for me,

1032
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: where I was like, you know, bring it, Like I

1033
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: had a very like, you know, my parents were not

1034
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: into movies, they weren't into art or culture, and it

1035
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 1: just forced me to go out there and just be like,

1036
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 1: what's the weirdest thing out there? I need to be

1037
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 1: around it?

1038
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 2: And so absolutely, and then again growing up and realizing

1039
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 2: like the true rebellion for me as an adult is

1040
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,240
Speaker 2: not in how weird I can get, or because everyone

1041
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 2: feels weird every day when you're a fucking adult, So

1042
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 2: that's no longer the rebellion. The rebellion for me is like,

1043
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 2: in spite of all the bullshit we live with, can

1044
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 2: I still find peace? Can I still be yes.

1045
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: Like a good happy person?

1046
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 2: That's real rebellion. It's like that I'm not dead inside.

1047
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, Or like canceling all your meetings so you could

1048
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: just sleep all day, that's like the billion at this point,

1049
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,959
Speaker 1: but it's you know, but here's the thing. So having

1050
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: said all that, now I've got this like arc of

1051
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: like my life where I've watched this movie three times,

1052
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: but like there's also the task of like trying to

1053
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 1: figure out what this movie is ultimately about. Two yes,

1054
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: and I just have to say, if you if you're

1055
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 1: coming to this podcast to find that out. I got No,

1056
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: there are no easy answers when it comes to what

1057
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 1: this movie is trying to do or say. We don't

1058
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: have enough time to talk about it, at least I don't.

1059
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 1: And I've already even said that to you guys. I

1060
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: was like, listen, if we have this, does this have

1061
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: the spillover in a bonus episode? And so be it.

1062
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: But like I have so many thoughts. It's too much.

1063
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: It's too much for you guys to handle. I'll just

1064
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: say it.

1065
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 2: And also it's too much too again, as we talked

1066
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 2: about earlier in the episode, it's almost not the point

1067
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,919
Speaker 2: of this is to figure out what it's about, and

1068
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 2: that's not the conversation we're having about it right now.

1069
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I was. When I was doing research

1070
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: for the movie, I was I went to read with

1071
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: Pauline Kale to you know, very famous film critic what

1072
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: she had a very famous review of a Clackork Orange,

1073
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: and she basically called it more or less, she called

1074
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 1: it kind of irresponsible. And she did this thing to

1075
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 1: which I kind of love. She basically called Kubrick like

1076
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: she was basically like called him out for being that

1077
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: kind of guy that's like everybody worships him as this

1078
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: like great intellectual but then he made this like kind

1079
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: of hollow, violent film and it sides with the bad guy,

1080
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 1: and she just wasn't down for that, and you know,

1081
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: so she she hated it. And then you know, Roger

1082
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 1: Ebert hated it too. I mean, there's a lot of

1083
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: his review back in the day when it came out

1084
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: was he called it a He wrote that it's an

1085
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 1: ideological mess, a paranoid right wing fantasy masquerading as an

1086
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: as an Orwellian warning.

1087
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 2: Damn.

1088
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: So yo, they fucking hated it. But again, this is

1089
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: they had been writing about this film in the seventies

1090
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 1: when it came out. But I gotta tell you if

1091
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 1: you can still go on the internet to find people

1092
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: talking about a clock record. In fact, I was doing

1093
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of that, like modern critics

1094
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: writing about it. And I don't know if you guys

1095
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: know Scott Tobias, he's another film critic, but he said

1096
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: it really simply in the Guardian and he just said,

1097
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: if this movie was released today, it would be a

1098
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: three mile island level event for the take industry, which

1099
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: is exactly my feelings like to.

1100
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 2: Oh god, I love that so much.

1101
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's listen. You know, I'll just do a

1102
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 1: little bit of a synopsis just to like orient to

1103
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: what we're even talking about. But it's like the movie

1104
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: is centered around this character named Alex, and he is

1105
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 1: played by Malcolm McDowell, the actor Malcolm McDowell. And you know,

1106
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 1: we did that episode about prep school a long time ago,

1107
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: and I talked about my movie was If Lindsay Anderson's IF,

1108
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 1: and I talked about in that episode how basically Kubrick

1109
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: cast Malcolm McDowell because he saw him an IF, right,

1110
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 1: And essentially Alex is that like if you take the

1111
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 1: character that he played an IF, he's kind of like

1112
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 1: this boyish troublemaker. It's it gets cranked up to like

1113
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: seventy five. That's what a cockwork orange is. And it's

1114
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: essentially he's this young guy living in this kind of

1115
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: like future future Britain, like futuristic Britain, and he's doing

1116
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: the thing. He's skipping school. He sneaks out at night

1117
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 1: with his buddies, who he calls drugs. They're called drugs,

1118
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 1: and they participate in this thing called ultra violence, which

1119
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: is ultra violent. It's very nasty. They fight with other gangs.

1120
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 1: At the very beginning of the movie. They basically break

1121
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 1: an enter into a writer's house. It's a it's a

1122
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: man and his wife, and they basically fucking beat and

1123
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: rape them all while Alex is singing singing in the rain.

1124
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 1: Pretty gnarly, gotta say. And that's the scene actually that

1125
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 1: gets referenced a lot. Is that singing in the rain scene,

1126
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: which is Marley does that to say it. But you know,

1127
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 1: Alex is the leader of this gang, but at the

1128
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: same time, like all of his friends are kind of

1129
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: like starting to question his authority a little bit. And

1130
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: then one night they decides to like break into this

1131
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: lady's house where she's doing yoga with like a bunch

1132
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 1: of her cats, and Alex steals this giant penis sculpture

1133
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: that she has in her house and basically kills her

1134
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: with it, which is the That is the thing that

1135
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: I remembered from childhood. When I was eight and I

1136
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:37,439
Speaker 1: saw that movie, I was like.

1137
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 2: Of course you would, even if you, yeah, you don't

1138
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 2: know what a dick is like that is a shocking scene.

1139
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 1: Shocking and so the craziest part is that happens and

1140
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: he tries to leave, but then his his buddies basically

1141
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 1: smash a bottle on his face and he's injured, and

1142
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: then the cops show up and he ends up getting

1143
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: arrested and he goes to jail. So then it becomes

1144
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: this like second half of the film where it sort

1145
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 1: of has tinges of Doctor Strangelove, where like Alex goes

1146
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 1: to the prison and like every person that he deals

1147
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 1: with in the prison is like a loud moron and

1148
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 1: a fucking uniform, like he's you know, it's very to me,

1149
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: it seems very Doctor Strangelove. But then he gets over,

1150
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, the course of a couple of years, he

1151
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: gets offered the chance to be this test subject for

1152
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 1: a project that these doctors are working on called the

1153
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 1: Ludovico Technique. Okay, and it's supposed to be this kind

1154
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: of like a version therapy thing to cure violent people

1155
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 1: like Alex essentially, But he gets transferred to the treatment

1156
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: facility and he thinks it's gonna be this like get

1157
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: out of jail free card, but then they end up

1158
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 1: like shooting him up with medicine every morning, and then

1159
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 1: they bring him in front of all these violent movies

1160
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: where they force his eyelids open with these like crank

1161
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: metal crank lever things.

1162
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 2: Okay, this, this eyeball clamp scene, I will never I

1163
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 2: was never and will never be prepared for that in

1164
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 2: my life.

1165
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 1: That freaked me the fuck out.

1166
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 2: Absence kid like, and it looks so gnarly and it's

1167
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 2: so visceral, and it's so close. Yeah, and it's like

1168
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 2: even in the scene of what's about to happen and

1169
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 2: him being shown these violent images and on film, and

1170
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 2: one of the films is like made specifically to look

1171
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 2: like him and his friends dressed up and like the

1172
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 2: eyeball clamping scene is truly viscerally disgusting to me to

1173
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 2: this day, Almost as disgusting as the idea of a

1174
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 2: grown adult just drinking a glass of milk. I'm sorry,

1175
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 2: but that makes me sick.

1176
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 1: Don't even get me started on this milk shit. I mean,

1177
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 1: that's me. It was like, they go to the Corova

1178
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 1: Milk Bar, isn't that what it's called, and they and

1179
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 1: they drink this milk that literally comes from this like

1180
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 1: faucet out of a woman's nipple. I mean, it's so

1181
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 1: insane and the milk has drug sent it or something.

1182
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 1: But I'm like, yeah, the whole milk scenario really makes

1183
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 1: me want to bar But it's you know, when I

1184
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: watched this again, I was like, A, I can't believe.

1185
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 1: Like it's like they wouldn't that would be cgi at

1186
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: this point, Like the eyelid opening thing would be there's

1187
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:19,000
Speaker 1: no way they would actually clamp an actor's eyelids open

1188
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: like that. And then they had this guy. This is

1189
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 1: also another very famous scene. You've probably seen stills of it.

1190
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 1: It's been parodied. I mean, I mean it's kind of

1191
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 1: like the basis for a lot of horror at this point.

1192
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 1: But it's like there's a doctor that comes in and

1193
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: puts like eye drops in his eyes to like lubricate them,

1194
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 1: which apparently actually needed to happen. Like yeah for me,

1195
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 1: I's McDowell the actor, right.

1196
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, it's fucking vile. And there's also this again,

1197
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 2: like the image that stays with me and has stayed

1198
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 2: with me since I first saw it as a teenager,

1199
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 2: was when he's in that chair and he's strapped in,

1200
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 2: like he is strapped down like straight jacket stuf with

1201
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 2: straps like seat belt straps over that his eyes are

1202
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 2: clamped open. He's got a big thing around his head

1203
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 2: that has wires coming out, and he does this expression.

1204
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 2: He has a facial expression where he just frowns like

1205
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 2: he's about to start crying, and he looks like The

1206
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 2: only equivalent I have is that, you know, have you

1207
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 2: ever seen like a picture of a blobfish where it's

1208
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 2: just like, yeah, like he looks like that, but his

1209
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 2: eyes are clamped open, and you're like, this is the

1210
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 2: most miserable thing I've ever fucking seen.

1211
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's it's terrible, And it's like watching it when

1212
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 1: I was eight, when I was sixteen, and when I

1213
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 1: was forty three, I can tell you it was still

1214
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: very effective at scaring the shit out of me.

1215
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 2: But yeah, it is definitely also as an adult, a

1216
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,919
Speaker 2: little bit more shocking because it has such it has

1217
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 2: such implications about mental health treatments, where they were, where

1218
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 2: they are, and how callously people treated you know, any

1219
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 2: human being who needed medical care or correction or adjustment.

1220
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 2: It just it brings up a lot for me.

1221
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And it's it's that's another part of it too.

1222
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 1: The horror of it is that he has no choice

1223
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: I mean, he this is what he signed up for

1224
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 1: because he you know, basically agreed to be in this

1225
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 1: program because he thought it was going to be an

1226
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: easier time than serving his sentence. And so it brings

1227
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: up a lot. Like I said, we could literally talk

1228
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:35,240
Speaker 1: about this movie for five hours. It's very textured in

1229
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 1: that way. But you know, so he's going through these

1230
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 1: this treatment where he's being forced to watch these horrible

1231
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 1: films of violence and sexual abuse, and you know, he

1232
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 1: starts feeling sick. And that's the aversion of therapy part,

1233
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 1: is that basically they're trying to they're forcing him to

1234
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 1: feel sickness so that he won't do this obviously in

1235
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 1: real life. So after time, they test him in front

1236
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 1: of a panel of like science and he passes. I mean,

1237
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 1: they put like a naked woman on stage and he

1238
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 1: doesn't rape her.

1239
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 2: Oh, he can't even touch her.

1240
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:08,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's that thing where you're like, oh my god,

1241
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: Like what a weird concept to be like proving that

1242
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: this guy is rehabilitated by like putting a woman naked

1243
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 1: on That to me is like very very strange to

1244
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 1: be like thinking about when you're watching this movie. But

1245
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 1: so then Alex gets released from prison because of he

1246
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 1: completes the stream and he goes home. I mean everyone's

1247
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 1: sort of ambivalent about him coming back with his mom

1248
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 1: and dad are like, okay, near back, we rented your

1249
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: room out to some other guy, and.

1250
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 2: We've basically like adopted him as a son. Like we

1251
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 2: basically him have kicked you out of your home, thinking

1252
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 2: you're either never coming back or you're coming back in

1253
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 2: fourteen years. Yeah, and this guy's a better son than

1254
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 2: you ever were.

1255
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's you know, like again, this is it's

1256
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 1: so hard because you know how terrible he is, Like

1257
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: you know that he performed all these terrible acts with

1258
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 1: no you know, no he didn't care, he had no

1259
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:17,639
Speaker 1: cares in the world. But then there are moments where

1260
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:19,719
Speaker 1: you're like, well, now he's going through this like prison

1261
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 1: industrial complex situation, and how does that change your opinion

1262
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 1: about him? Right? So then you know Alex is having

1263
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:29,439
Speaker 1: a hard time. You know, he's he would he would

1264
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:31,599
Speaker 1: try to resort to moments of violence and get sick

1265
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 1: that at some point he ends up back at the guy,

1266
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:37,560
Speaker 1: the writer's house, and then the writer you know, basically

1267
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:40,760
Speaker 1: sort of is getting his revenge on him once he

1268
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:46,840
Speaker 1: figures out it's him, and you know, basically decides to

1269
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 1: blast Beethoven's Ninth and that is Alex loves Beethoven, and

1270
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 1: when he was in treatment, they made the association that

1271
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:59,599
Speaker 1: Beethoven was going to make him sick, which of course

1272
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: is like, take the one thing he loves and make

1273
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 1: it against turn it against him, right, And so it

1274
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 1: freaks out so much that he jumps out the window

1275
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 1: tries to kill himself, right, And when he wakes up,

1276
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 1: now after that suicide attempt, he's in a hospital, the

1277
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 1: press and the government have changed their tune on him,

1278
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 1: Like the press is saying that he's he was a

1279
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 1: victim of this like horrible you know, government experiment, and

1280
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:30,680
Speaker 1: he basically becomes like a celebrity, like he pretty much

1281
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 1: like becomes the thing like they he's he's basically given

1282
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 1: everything that he wants, like he's you know, the guy

1283
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 1: that put you know, was the head of the treatment

1284
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 1: comes back and talks to him and they're playing beethoven

1285
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:48,879
Speaker 1: Snein for him again and he doesn't feel any symptoms anymore.

1286
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 1: And then you're just like, Okay, now the movie's over

1287
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: and you're left with this like crazy scenario, which is like, well,

1288
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 1: now he's just back to who he was, and exactly

1289
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 1: how do I feel about that?

1290
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 2: You know? And they've made him out to be a victim,

1291
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:11,599
Speaker 2: and even though he victimized people throughout the film and

1292
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 2: like in horrible, violent, terrible ways, and they're making him

1293
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,679
Speaker 2: out to be the victim now of his own government,

1294
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 2: in his own world. And it's it's very, very complicated,

1295
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 2: and I don't think it's meant to leave you feeling good,

1296
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 2: but it really doesn't leave you feeling good.

1297
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the I think the obvious

1298
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:40,840
Speaker 1: question is, okay, so what's more moral or something like

1299
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 1: being just a bad person or being programmed to be

1300
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 1: a good person?

1301
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 2: Right right, right, and and and it's kind of the

1302
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:53,679
Speaker 2: programming is such a big part of it because there's

1303
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 2: also this this the thing that I don't love about

1304
01:10:56,920 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 2: the movie is that it doesn't go too in depth

1305
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 2: into anything one thing or any one train of thought,

1306
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 2: or anyone explanation of the world or the people, and

1307
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 2: so on the surface, there's that very basic like, well,

1308
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 2: who's the real monster? And you're like, well, Alex is

1309
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 2: a fucking monster, but like that's that's a no brainer,

1310
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 2: he's a fucking monster. It left me with a feeling

1311
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:28,960
Speaker 2: of I entered this thinking I knew what was right

1312
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 2: and wrong and who was good and bad, and I'm

1313
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 2: leaving feeling like everything is right and wrong and good

1314
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 2: in bad, Like I'm leaving here. You know, the last

1315
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 2: shot of the film is so weird in its concept,

1316
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:51,240
Speaker 2: and it doesn't really explain beyond the fact that this

1317
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 2: is a character who gets weirdly everything he wants. It

1318
01:11:54,439 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 2: doesn't explain the unseen misery of like what he had

1319
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:02,720
Speaker 2: to go through to get it, And like, I don't know,

1320
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:05,680
Speaker 2: there's just a lot that I could have used more.

1321
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 2: Like this movie's already two hours and fifteen minutes long.

1322
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 2: I could have used another two hours. If they would

1323
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 2: have thought to explain any of that, I would have

1324
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 2: taken it.

1325
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like it's crazy because you could really go

1326
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 1: down a rabbit hole of information about it and a

1327
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 1: lot of people talking about it. I mean, I think

1328
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 1: that part of what Pauline Cale and Roger Ebert were

1329
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 1: discussing and their reviews is just the simple fact that

1330
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 1: it seems to be it doesn't have enough of a

1331
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 1: message about the violence.

1332
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 2: Yes, you know what I mean. At the pointless film

1333
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:41,720
Speaker 2: when it comes to discussion, to discussing the violence, and

1334
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 2: that is egregious and irresponsible that they're not that, I

1335
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:49,839
Speaker 2: think again, people have over the years just tied themselves

1336
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 2: in knots trying to make it make sense, and that's

1337
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 2: truly not the point of the film, and we would

1338
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 2: we also truly can never get there from what they've

1339
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:02,639
Speaker 2: given us the film that they again, it's just it's

1340
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 2: pointless to try to even explain away how irresponsible the

1341
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 2: violence is.

1342
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 1: And I think in my teenage years, I feel like

1343
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 1: part of what made teenagers, at least the ones that

1344
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 1: I knew, gravitate towards the film was that it seemed

1345
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 1: to be about this irresponsibility of the government, of the

1346
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 1: penal system, of everything conspiring against this guy. And I

1347
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 1: just think it's more complicated.

1348
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:37,599
Speaker 2: Than that obviously. Well also not to skirt over it,

1349
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 2: but like this movie is very enticing to teenagers because

1350
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 2: there are people who do not have a fully developed

1351
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 2: prefrontal lobe ye, Like, it's very enticing to people who haven't,

1352
01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 2: like whose brains haven't fully developed yet, because it's like

1353
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:55,760
Speaker 2: like you said, it's the colors and the shiny and

1354
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:58,599
Speaker 2: the violence and like that is attractive to people who

1355
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 2: don't have a stake in the world. Yet.

1356
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I said, I'm trying not to like

1357
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:09,120
Speaker 1: really like I'm trying to keep it succinct. I'm trying

1358
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:12,479
Speaker 1: because I really do. I mean, my instinct is to

1359
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 1: go fucking hours and hours on analysis and it's hard

1360
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,799
Speaker 1: because it, Like I think that's what makes the movie

1361
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:24,799
Speaker 1: remembered by so many people for so long. It's because

1362
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:30,679
Speaker 1: of this sort of gray area about everything. And you know, shit,

1363
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:34,679
Speaker 1: I mean if people are seeing it as this like cool, punk,

1364
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 1: fucking masterpiece and irresponsible at the same time, I mean,

1365
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:44,599
Speaker 1: that is a movie that is something to watch and

1366
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 1: to least get an opinion on and think about in

1367
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:50,639
Speaker 1: your own way. And I mean I feel many ways

1368
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 1: about this film. I mean I think it's unpleasant, like

1369
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 1: I said, hard to watch. I also think that that's

1370
01:14:56,640 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 1: not a reason to to be scared of it or

1371
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 1: to want it to not exist or something. Does that

1372
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:04,920
Speaker 1: make sense?

1373
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes no sense.

1374
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 1: Like I love like a deep text, Like I like

1375
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 1: having to put on like critical thinking skills and to

1376
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:18,760
Speaker 1: like walk myself through a movie like this, even though yeah,

1377
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 1: it is horrifically violent at times where it's like very uncomfortable,

1378
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:25,600
Speaker 1: like some of the rats partner are really bad. And

1379
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 1: at the same time, I this movie has influenced so

1380
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:36,559
Speaker 1: many people. There's so many stylistic aspects of the film

1381
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:39,800
Speaker 1: that I enjoy, even though I do think it's like

1382
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 1: there's so many like making women and giant dicks and everything,

1383
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 1: like all the art on the walls. It's just sort

1384
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:48,600
Speaker 1: of like kind of overwhelming.

1385
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:53,120
Speaker 2: Yes, of course it is, of course, and truly there

1386
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 2: is something to be said for part of the complication

1387
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:00,639
Speaker 2: for me is that Malcolm McDowell is a very good

1388
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 2: actor in this film. Yeah, and he is so believable

1389
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:10,799
Speaker 2: as Alex, like to an astonishing degree. And it's really

1390
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:13,519
Speaker 2: hard to watch someone be that good at being so terrible,

1391
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:14,760
Speaker 2: I know, And like.

1392
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 1: That is something that I read in both in the

1393
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:20,360
Speaker 1: Pauline Kle review, I think it's in the Ebert review.

1394
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:22,639
Speaker 1: And I mean even Malcolm mcdewell himself said, like this

1395
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:26,559
Speaker 1: movie has followed me my entire life. Like he is

1396
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 1: simply a great actor and he was doing exactly what

1397
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:33,000
Speaker 1: he was told to do as an actor, but it

1398
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 1: made his character so I mean, we just had to

1399
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 1: over invest because he's that good at it, and we're

1400
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:43,840
Speaker 1: just now we're we have this emotional response to what

1401
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: he did in the movie. Yeah, but there's a like,

1402
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 1: like I said, there's it's just like it's very complicated.

1403
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 1: There's things I hate, things I love. I love the

1404
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 1: Wendy Carlos version of that what is it music from

1405
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:57,759
Speaker 1: the Funeral of Queen Mary that they use like over

1406
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 1: and over in the film amazing. But then you know

1407
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 1: there's also like my complicated thoughts about Kubrick as a

1408
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 1: as a director too. I mean, yes, you know, you

1409
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:09,080
Speaker 1: pretty much if you have a if you have a

1410
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 1: film background, or if you love film, you kind of

1411
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:15,640
Speaker 1: have a requirement to have an opinion about Kubrick. It

1412
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,519
Speaker 1: feels like, and you know, my stamps at him. Is

1413
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 1: it fluctuates so often? I mean, I love I love

1414
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 1: the Killing. But then there's also these other movies where

1415
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 1: he has these characters like Alex in this movie and

1416
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:28,879
Speaker 1: Jack Torrance and I fucking hate.

1417
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 2: So it's like the theory we talked about this when

1418
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:33,799
Speaker 2: we talked about The Shining Too, where like his method

1419
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:36,040
Speaker 2: is kind of deplorable, and like, the more you learn

1420
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 2: about how he treated actors and actresses on set, and yes,

1421
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:41,800
Speaker 2: like to get the effect of what he wanted, Like,

1422
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:45,640
Speaker 2: it's it, it's pretty deplorable. Yeah, And how do you

1423
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:47,240
Speaker 2: enjoy art knowing that?

1424
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 1: I know it's it's very complicated. I don't know anybody

1425
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 1: who thinks it's easy to do. People think that's easy

1426
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 1: because I'm very hard to wrestle.

1427
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 2: Well, this is part of the problem is a lot

1428
01:17:57,040 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 2: of fucking people think it's easy. They're like you either,

1429
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:02,719
Speaker 2: like it are you doing? I'm like, oh, but yes,

1430
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 2: it is, It's true, Like it's it's really it's difficult

1431
01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:09,320
Speaker 2: for me to engage with an artist if I think

1432
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 2: that as a person they were maybe not a good dude.

1433
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:15,760
Speaker 2: And so when you watch a movie that is complicated,

1434
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:18,360
Speaker 2: made by a creator that is complicated, like where do

1435
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:18,760
Speaker 2: you go?

1436
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:25,240
Speaker 1: I know it's it is something that everyone is wrestling

1437
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 1: with everyone.

1438
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:29,120
Speaker 2: I mean I am. I am happy to go deep

1439
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 2: on Clockwork Orange and a bonus if you have more

1440
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:33,400
Speaker 2: thoughts for sure, like anytime.

1441
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: Well, well we might have to. We might have to

1442
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:38,759
Speaker 1: do that because we just are simply out of time

1443
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:42,519
Speaker 1: to really get into, you know, everything that could be

1444
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:44,880
Speaker 1: said about it. But I mean for the theme. I

1445
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:48,080
Speaker 1: will say that it was this was the only choice.

1446
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:51,840
Speaker 1: Nothing has rocked me as hard as this movie. I

1447
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:54,479
Speaker 1: mean it really was the thing that like kind of

1448
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 1: changed everything for me, good and bad. I mean, you know,

1449
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:00,639
Speaker 1: it like freaked me out. I'm not gonna lie about

1450
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:04,599
Speaker 1: you know, nudity and you know violence, sexual violence especially,

1451
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:06,639
Speaker 1: I mean obviously, how could you not be rocked by that?

1452
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 1: But it's also like it also like kind of told

1453
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:14,360
Speaker 1: me that, like I don't know, maybe this is stuff

1454
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:18,720
Speaker 1: that I could watch and form opinions on. And you know,

1455
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 1: it kind of set a table for me to watch

1456
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:24,800
Speaker 1: other kind of provocative, weird things. And then that just

1457
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:28,120
Speaker 1: went from there. So this could be the only choice

1458
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 1: for me this week. And yeah, but I will say

1459
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:36,720
Speaker 1: your film, I just I love it so much. I

1460
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:39,840
Speaker 1: have such a like a personal attachment to it. So

1461
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:43,760
Speaker 1: I'm just curious to hear how you were traumatized by it.

1462
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:46,759
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and it's you know, it's And this is again,

1463
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:49,200
Speaker 2: like when I thought about what film I could pick,

1464
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:52,120
Speaker 2: there were several because I grew up in a family

1465
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 2: that like I was watching Halloween when I was like four,

1466
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:57,559
Speaker 2: like maybe need a buck? They did not I give

1467
01:19:57,640 --> 01:19:59,720
Speaker 2: a bug if they wanted to watch it, I was

1468
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 2: gonna watch it, and so there were quite a few options.

1469
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:06,760
Speaker 2: But the reason I picked this one is that the

1470
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 2: event of this movie felt so personal to me each

1471
01:20:11,400 --> 01:20:13,920
Speaker 2: and every time I watched it. And I was again

1472
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:16,840
Speaker 2: way too young to watch it when I first did.

1473
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 2: But I'll just get into my film. It'll help me

1474
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:23,400
Speaker 2: center my thoughts on it. Because my book my film

1475
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:26,439
Speaker 2: was released in nineteen eighty. It's based on a book

1476
01:20:26,479 --> 01:20:29,200
Speaker 2: as well as Just like Millie's movie, this could have

1477
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 2: been a book to movie, could a band theme. But

1478
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:37,680
Speaker 2: my film, again released in nineteen eighty, based on a

1479
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:41,639
Speaker 2: book by Judith Guest. The screenplay is by Alvin Sargent,

1480
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 2: and this was Robert Redford's directorial debut. My movie is

1481
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:48,479
Speaker 2: ordinary people.

1482
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:51,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to see any doctors or counselors. This

1483
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:54,400
Speaker 1: is my family problems and I'll solve those problems in

1484
01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 1: the privacy of.

1485
01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:55,679
Speaker 3: Our own home.

1486
01:20:56,040 --> 01:21:00,439
Speaker 2: So I think the first time I remember seeing this movie,

1487
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:05,200
Speaker 2: I was like nine, like nine or ten, and it

1488
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:07,759
Speaker 2: was one of those movies that you know, like again,

1489
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:12,679
Speaker 2: VHS was big, and my grandparents would rent movies like this.

1490
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:15,840
Speaker 2: In terms of endearment and just be like this was

1491
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:17,320
Speaker 2: a good movie. Like they went and saw it in

1492
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:19,120
Speaker 2: the theaters and loved it and wanted to watch it

1493
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 2: again because you know, they had no chance to see

1494
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:23,720
Speaker 2: it until it came out on VHS, so they would

1495
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:26,120
Speaker 2: go and rent it, and me, being a little shit,

1496
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:27,880
Speaker 2: would sit on the couch and be like, I'm gonna

1497
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 2: watch whatever they watch because I'm an adult and I'm

1498
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:33,120
Speaker 2: smart and cool. And then I would be like crying

1499
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:34,680
Speaker 2: halfway through a movie and they'd be like, get the

1500
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:38,840
Speaker 2: fuck out of here, So like your for me, get

1501
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:42,479
Speaker 2: the fuck out of here. So this movie again, it

1502
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:45,720
Speaker 2: was direct This was again Robert Redford could not have

1503
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:48,839
Speaker 2: been a bigger movie star when he pivoted to directing

1504
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:51,920
Speaker 2: and wanted to do something different in his life. And

1505
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 2: there is a whole article it's kind of an oral

1506
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:58,680
Speaker 2: history of this this film that was released. It was

1507
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:01,599
Speaker 2: an entertainment weekly art that I read called The Untold

1508
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:05,360
Speaker 2: Story of Ordinary People. And you get so many moments

1509
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:08,200
Speaker 2: about how this film came to be. But just to

1510
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:11,639
Speaker 2: center you a little bit, like Robert Redford, huge, huge,

1511
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:15,719
Speaker 2: huge movie star and then does this kind of film

1512
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:17,679
Speaker 2: is right out of the gate like he was making

1513
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 2: a statement with this film, not just by being a director,

1514
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:24,200
Speaker 2: but by saying, these are the kinds of stories I'm

1515
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:26,880
Speaker 2: interested in telling. So it was a whole thing. And

1516
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:31,200
Speaker 2: this movie was fucking huge. It won four Oscars. It

1517
01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 2: won for Best Picture, it won for Best Director, Timothy

1518
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 2: Hutton won for Best Supporting Actor, and it won for

1519
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 2: Best Adapted Screenplay. And it won six Golden Globes. Like

1520
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:44,760
Speaker 2: it was huge. It made a ton of money. Everyone

1521
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 2: on the damn planet, or at least everyone in America,

1522
01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 2: saw this fucking movie, which is weird because it's a movie.

1523
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 2: It's a very quiet movie about a family that is

1524
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:59,639
Speaker 2: falling apart. And one thing that I absolutely love about

1525
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,800
Speaker 2: this movie is that it presented in a way that

1526
01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 2: is it is a constant mystery that is unfolding. So

1527
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 2: we have our main characters all acting heavyweights. You have

1528
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:16,920
Speaker 2: Timothy Hutton playing Conrad Jarrett, who's a teen that kind

1529
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 2: of is the center of this film. The POV of

1530
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 2: this film, Donald Sutherland plays his dad, Calvin. Mary Tyler

1531
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:27,479
Speaker 2: Moore plays his mom Beth, which again Mary Tyler Moore

1532
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:29,800
Speaker 2: like lady throwing her hat up in a sitcom on

1533
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:35,000
Speaker 2: TV to this like ice queen bitch role. It was

1534
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 2: a move, it was a shift for everyone. You've got

1535
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 2: jud Hirsch playing doctor Berger, m Emmett Walsh, our fave

1536
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:45,640
Speaker 2: shows up as a swim coach. And this was a

1537
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 2: first role or an early role for Elizabeth McGovern. She

1538
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:54,440
Speaker 2: plays Janine Pratt, total baby faced Elizabeth McGovern. Dinah Mannhoff

1539
01:23:54,760 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 2: is in it. She plays Karen, who's a friend of Conrad's.

1540
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:02,280
Speaker 2: And you'll also wreck a nice You'll recognize this one

1541
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:04,960
Speaker 2: guy and you'll be like, who is that. It's Adam Baldwin,

1542
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:09,640
Speaker 2: also known as Jane from Firefly, playing one of Conrad's

1543
01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:12,639
Speaker 2: friends as well. So it's got this real heavyweight cast

1544
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:16,639
Speaker 2: with an absolutely heavy heavyweight director, although no one knew

1545
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 2: at the time how that was going to work out.

1546
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:21,720
Speaker 2: And again it's a movie that's about this family that's

1547
01:24:21,720 --> 01:24:25,120
Speaker 2: falling apart. So my my very quick one sentence synopsis

1548
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:29,120
Speaker 2: if I can, is that on the heels of a death,

1549
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 2: a young son realizes that the cracks in his family

1550
01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:34,560
Speaker 2: are actually sinkholes.

1551
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:38,760
Speaker 1: That's a great one, thank you.

1552
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:41,679
Speaker 2: Thank you, And it's got like it's got this totally

1553
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:45,880
Speaker 2: silent opening. It was filmed in the North shore of Chicago,

1554
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 2: and it looks like like, oh you.

1555
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 1: You I used to live in Hanover Park, baby, just

1556
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:55,720
Speaker 1: just just south of what is it Lake Forest? Is

1557
01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:56,439
Speaker 1: that where they filmed?

1558
01:24:57,360 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, got a represent And this place is idyllic.

1559
01:25:03,479 --> 01:25:05,360
Speaker 2: I mean it's like you're looking at a lake, You're

1560
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:08,200
Speaker 2: looking at the autumn. It's like beautiful trees. It's a

1561
01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 2: quiet small town. You've got these these houses that are

1562
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:13,559
Speaker 2: so big You're like, is this a house or a

1563
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:17,400
Speaker 2: private school? And when you do first enter, the first

1564
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:19,439
Speaker 2: scene is like, you know, you're looking at a lot

1565
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 2: of kids singing in a choir at a private school

1566
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:25,519
Speaker 2: or at a school, and it's the eighties, so somebody

1567
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:27,839
Speaker 2: is wearing enough blush that it looks like a bruise.

1568
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:34,360
Speaker 2: And Elizabeth McGovern and Timothy Hutton are singing in this

1569
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:37,840
Speaker 2: choir and they look completely sleep deprived, like every kid

1570
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,880
Speaker 2: in the eighties was an adult who was sleep deprived.

1571
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 2: So they just kept the look and you're like, these

1572
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:45,880
Speaker 2: teens are shrugs to funk like they are not getting

1573
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:48,880
Speaker 2: any sleep. And you could tell the Conrad's not getting

1574
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:51,720
Speaker 2: any sleep because you're watching him have nightmares and he's

1575
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:56,640
Speaker 2: having these dreams of drowning. You kind of learn very slowly,

1576
01:25:56,840 --> 01:25:58,559
Speaker 2: Like first you learn that he's been out of the

1577
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:01,040
Speaker 2: hospital for about a month and a half half, then

1578
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:03,839
Speaker 2: you learn that he was in the hospital for four months,

1579
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:06,879
Speaker 2: and you're like, okay, but why was he in the hospital.

1580
01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:09,960
Speaker 2: Why does his mom seem mad at him? Why is

1581
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:13,559
Speaker 2: his dad trying so hard to like win his affection

1582
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:17,639
Speaker 2: and make him feel comfortable. It's really intense to watch

1583
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:23,439
Speaker 2: that unfold in the backdrop of all this normalcy. And

1584
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:26,599
Speaker 2: so the story is as you come to learn it.

1585
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:29,679
Speaker 2: And again this is after watching Conrad, who is completely

1586
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:33,040
Speaker 2: sleep deprived. He's not participating in class, he looks like

1587
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 2: he's not sleeping, he's not eating. He really looks like

1588
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:38,720
Speaker 2: he is crawling out of his skin. In the whole film,

1589
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:42,320
Speaker 2: Like Timothy Hutton did an absolutely amazing job with this role,

1590
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:46,320
Speaker 2: because you felt the emotion of this kid who just

1591
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 2: could not who was uncomfortable everywhere and could not settle down.

1592
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 2: He's uncomfortable around his friends. He just like he's seeing

1593
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:58,639
Speaker 2: images of cemeteries when like a train passes, like he's

1594
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:01,759
Speaker 2: just kind of out of it. He's out of the world.

1595
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:04,200
Speaker 2: He's not in the world that he's inhabiting that he's

1596
01:27:04,240 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 2: living in. So that was I think, just again remarkable

1597
01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:12,519
Speaker 2: acting and directing. And the story that you learn over

1598
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:16,479
Speaker 2: time in this movie is that Conrad had an older

1599
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 2: brother who died in a boating accident. He was there

1600
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 2: and after his brother died, and his brother was like,

1601
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 2: you know, the sport every sports trophy that could possibly

1602
01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:31,599
Speaker 2: have been one. He was kind of the favored son,

1603
01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:36,400
Speaker 2: and his parents didn't really make any effort to hide

1604
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:39,120
Speaker 2: that when he was alive, and they certainly didn't make

1605
01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:41,479
Speaker 2: an effort to hide it after he died. But his

1606
01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:45,160
Speaker 2: brother died in a boating accident, and Conrad tried to

1607
01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 2: kill himself and spent four months in a hospital, and

1608
01:27:49,160 --> 01:27:51,719
Speaker 2: then you know, we're kind of catching up with him

1609
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:54,560
Speaker 2: where you know, upon returning home, he just has a

1610
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:57,560
Speaker 2: really hard time adjusting to life. So one thing that

1611
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:02,880
Speaker 2: is instantly to me about this movie is how they

1612
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:06,960
Speaker 2: center the parents in normalcy while Conrad's completely freaking out.

1613
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:09,080
Speaker 2: So you're seeing the parents for the first time, like

1614
01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:13,280
Speaker 2: at a play, and you know, Donald Sutherland's character Cal

1615
01:28:13,400 --> 01:28:15,599
Speaker 2: is like sleeping through the play, and then they get

1616
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 2: in the car and Mary Tyler Moore is like, you know,

1617
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:21,280
Speaker 2: was that fun? And they're going out with other couples

1618
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 2: and like they're just having what seems like a very

1619
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:26,960
Speaker 2: normal night. But when they come home, Calvin is the

1620
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:29,800
Speaker 2: only one who seems interested in checking on Conrad and

1621
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:31,519
Speaker 2: he kind of sees his light on and he goes

1622
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:34,519
Speaker 2: upstairs and like knocks on the door, and you see

1623
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:38,200
Speaker 2: that in him where he's constantly like asking Conrad if

1624
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:40,920
Speaker 2: he's called a doctor, if he's like made this move,

1625
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:45,160
Speaker 2: So you know something is going on. And the next

1626
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:48,679
Speaker 2: morning at breakfast, this scene just fucking kills me every time.

1627
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:52,000
Speaker 2: The next morning at breakfast, they're having a total serial

1628
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 2: commercial breakfast where it's like oh Jay, coffee, eggs, French shows,

1629
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:59,120
Speaker 2: like everything, and Conrad's crawling out of his skin and

1630
01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:01,639
Speaker 2: Mary Tyler is like, He's like, I don't really feel

1631
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 2: like eating, and you know, the dad's like, no, you

1632
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:07,040
Speaker 2: gotta eat breakfasts portmeala the day and she grabs the

1633
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:08,840
Speaker 2: plate and is like, he doesn't want to eat, and

1634
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 2: she just throws the food in the damn garbage disposal,

1635
01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:15,960
Speaker 2: like there's no attempt to understand how he feels or

1636
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:19,920
Speaker 2: why she is just from that moment on, and again

1637
01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:22,720
Speaker 2: it's such a small moment, but from that moment on,

1638
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:25,840
Speaker 2: you're like, Wow, what is her fucking problem with him?

1639
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:27,160
Speaker 2: What is going on with them?

1640
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:30,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, she she It's very early in the movie, but

1641
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:35,160
Speaker 1: it's already established that she has little to no patience

1642
01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:36,320
Speaker 1: for whatever he's gone through.

1643
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:41,160
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, and it's really it's incredibly jarring to see

1644
01:29:41,200 --> 01:29:43,640
Speaker 2: because again, this is nineteen eighty We're not used to

1645
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:47,639
Speaker 2: seeing moms presented this way, and particularly about Mary Tyler Moore.

1646
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:51,439
Speaker 2: So in this Entertainment Weekly article that I read about

1647
01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 2: the you know, the Untold Story of ordinary People, Mary

1648
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:57,559
Speaker 2: Tyler Moore says Beth was a victim. I shared this

1649
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 2: with Redford, who told me in our first meeting that

1650
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:04,719
Speaker 2: the non relationship Beth had with Conrad was the mirror

1651
01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:07,880
Speaker 2: of the non interaction he had with his own father.

1652
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:11,800
Speaker 2: Beth made me think of my father and his rigidity.

1653
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 2: I imagine a bit of him and me, along with

1654
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:17,640
Speaker 2: my own tendency to want everything to be perfect and

1655
01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:20,639
Speaker 2: to set the table for bringing Beth to life on film.

1656
01:30:21,240 --> 01:30:25,960
Speaker 2: So that was kind of important that this is something

1657
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:29,280
Speaker 2: that they discussed as she prepared for this role, and

1658
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 2: the writer of this article said that as Conrad begins

1659
01:30:32,360 --> 01:30:35,679
Speaker 2: to heal, the cracks and Beth in Calvin's marriage become

1660
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:40,680
Speaker 2: impossible for Calvin to ignore, in particular Beth's inability to

1661
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:46,639
Speaker 2: show conrad affection. Audiences viewed Beth as the ultimate icy mother,

1662
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:51,240
Speaker 2: but more never saw her that way. And so you

1663
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:54,800
Speaker 2: have this person, you know, this actress who's like, I know,

1664
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:56,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to be playing a stone cold bitch, but

1665
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:59,920
Speaker 2: to her it makes perfect sense that she was all

1666
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:03,040
Speaker 2: so a victim in that she lost her son and

1667
01:31:03,080 --> 01:31:05,839
Speaker 2: she almost lost her other son, and she's losing her marriage,

1668
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:08,240
Speaker 2: and she's losing her life. Like her whole life was

1669
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:11,760
Speaker 2: built around this family and it is breaking apart.

1670
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:17,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a really interesting component of this film

1671
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:23,880
Speaker 1: for me personally, because I think this film cannot you

1672
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:25,920
Speaker 1: cannot help it. It makes you think about your own

1673
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:29,880
Speaker 1: family and your own the dynamics that you share with

1674
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:36,400
Speaker 1: everybody in your family. And there are times where I

1675
01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:39,240
Speaker 1: have talked about this with women who are around my age,

1676
01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:45,759
Speaker 1: and it feels like the mothers of our generation would

1677
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:49,160
Speaker 1: be like the mothers of this generation likes kind of

1678
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:55,360
Speaker 1: you know, same era. Obviously, I'm younger than Conrad or whatever.

1679
01:31:55,760 --> 01:32:00,800
Speaker 1: But this was not the mother of the Sarah were

1680
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:04,559
Speaker 1: just different and they did not A lot of them

1681
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:07,240
Speaker 1: just did not have They had a lot of unprocessed

1682
01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:11,160
Speaker 1: trauma mm hmm. And it showed.

1683
01:32:11,560 --> 01:32:15,640
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, and they weren't taught. They were taught how

1684
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:19,720
Speaker 2: to be parents in one particular way and that did

1685
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:22,880
Speaker 2: not change with the times for a long time. And

1686
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:25,080
Speaker 2: it was a lot of unprocessed trauma for that too.

1687
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:28,120
Speaker 2: And I think part of what really traumatized me the

1688
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:31,760
Speaker 2: first time I saw this movie is that it was

1689
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:36,719
Speaker 2: not too long after my own mother left my brother

1690
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:39,799
Speaker 2: and I with my grandparents. And so as I'm watching

1691
01:32:40,439 --> 01:32:44,839
Speaker 2: Beth on the screen, I'm like, moms fucking leave. Moms

1692
01:32:44,880 --> 01:32:48,559
Speaker 2: don't like their kids, and they leave. And it was

1693
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:51,160
Speaker 2: she didn't leave in the film, but I could kind

1694
01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:53,679
Speaker 2: of I was telegraphing that, and like I could see

1695
01:32:53,680 --> 01:32:56,720
Speaker 2: that coming, where Like it was weird that I was

1696
01:32:56,800 --> 01:33:00,040
Speaker 2: kind of learning and feeling that it was possible for

1697
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:02,320
Speaker 2: moms to not like their kids at the same time

1698
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:05,880
Speaker 2: I'm watching it on a screen. Wow, And that was

1699
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:09,519
Speaker 2: fucking hard. That was very I was way too young

1700
01:33:09,560 --> 01:33:13,719
Speaker 2: to be thinking about that, essentially, So that was really

1701
01:33:13,880 --> 01:33:17,479
Speaker 2: difficult to process that, like it's being played as a role,

1702
01:33:17,560 --> 01:33:21,360
Speaker 2: but for me, it was very real, very real, And

1703
01:33:22,479 --> 01:33:25,799
Speaker 2: I think for a long time I kind of viewed

1704
01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:29,320
Speaker 2: that character the same way that audiences viewed her, like

1705
01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:32,880
Speaker 2: she's just an icy bitch and like there's no redemption there.

1706
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:36,160
Speaker 2: And it wasn't until I rewatched it as an adult

1707
01:33:36,200 --> 01:33:38,479
Speaker 2: for this podcast that I was even able to look

1708
01:33:38,520 --> 01:33:42,599
Speaker 2: at her with different eyes, not to say that she's

1709
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:45,920
Speaker 2: not icy, but that I can understand her detachment a

1710
01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:49,600
Speaker 2: little bit more by understanding kind of the trauma that

1711
01:33:49,640 --> 01:33:50,960
Speaker 2: had happened to the whole family.

1712
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:56,960
Speaker 1: I agree, and I mean it's complicated because there's a

1713
01:33:57,000 --> 01:34:01,760
Speaker 1: lot of things that happen in the movie with her

1714
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:09,439
Speaker 1: character that do telegraph the iciness and she's very status conscious. Yes,

1715
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:11,880
Speaker 1: that is the hardest thing for me to take, and

1716
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:16,439
Speaker 1: that's that's that's where I stop feeling so forgiving of

1717
01:34:16,479 --> 01:34:20,120
Speaker 1: her right because I'm just like, she just loves she

1718
01:34:20,320 --> 01:34:24,240
Speaker 1: loves the like the dance, the social dance of like

1719
01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:27,280
Speaker 1: you know, going on vacation and having drinks with the

1720
01:34:27,320 --> 01:34:30,360
Speaker 1: neighbors and going to fucking parties and like you know,

1721
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:35,240
Speaker 1: she's just all about image and you know, she's embarrassed

1722
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:38,439
Speaker 1: that her son goes to therapy. You know, she's got

1723
01:34:38,439 --> 01:34:43,679
Speaker 1: this whole like veneer of that. She's just like this fun,

1724
01:34:43,800 --> 01:34:48,280
Speaker 1: freewheeling lady.

1725
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:50,320
Speaker 2: Exactly, and she can't deal with the reality of her life, right.

1726
01:34:50,200 --> 01:34:53,559
Speaker 1: And and and I get and I do feel like, yes,

1727
01:34:53,600 --> 01:34:58,680
Speaker 1: I mean that's to like be a psychiatrist for this

1728
01:34:58,840 --> 01:35:02,639
Speaker 1: fictional character. But it's this thing where I'm like that

1729
01:35:03,479 --> 01:35:07,040
Speaker 1: there are times when I do want to sympathize with her, obviously,

1730
01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:09,960
Speaker 1: but then she just makes it hard. Sometimes. Her character

1731
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:12,160
Speaker 1: is like when the whole thing where they go to

1732
01:35:12,240 --> 01:35:16,080
Speaker 1: Houston and she's playing golf and stuff, and it's like this,

1733
01:35:16,160 --> 01:35:18,520
Speaker 1: so let us have a cocktail over at the clubhouse.

1734
01:35:18,760 --> 01:35:22,919
Speaker 1: And then the second later they're in this like wicked argument, Yeah.

1735
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:25,680
Speaker 2: Because Calvin dared to bring up their fucking son at

1736
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:29,840
Speaker 2: home who had just tried to kill himself. Yeah, and

1737
01:35:29,880 --> 01:35:32,000
Speaker 2: she gets pissed about it, like you're ruining my vacation

1738
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:34,080
Speaker 2: by reminding me of that fucking kid at home.

1739
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:34,960
Speaker 1: Right.

1740
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:40,800
Speaker 2: It's brutal, It's brutal. Yeah, Yeah, I definitely. You know,

1741
01:35:40,840 --> 01:35:43,560
Speaker 2: I still think about that character a lot, and I

1742
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:45,840
Speaker 2: think it was really brave for Mary Tyler Moore to

1743
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:49,240
Speaker 2: play that, and it's so against type for her and

1744
01:35:49,240 --> 01:35:52,719
Speaker 2: this this movie just felt like it was a chance

1745
01:35:52,920 --> 01:35:55,559
Speaker 2: for every actor to show a different side of them,

1746
01:35:55,680 --> 01:35:57,760
Speaker 2: Like it must have felt so nice for them to

1747
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:02,439
Speaker 2: have access to these roles. One thing that was funny.

1748
01:36:02,439 --> 01:36:04,360
Speaker 2: There are two points that were really funny. One is

1749
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:08,280
Speaker 2: why he casts jud Hirsh And this again comes from

1750
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:11,719
Speaker 2: that article that I read and read. Robert Redford says,

1751
01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:14,760
Speaker 2: I saw this TV show Taxi that had jud Hersh

1752
01:36:14,800 --> 01:36:17,559
Speaker 2: in it, and he had this rapid fire delivery, and

1753
01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:20,479
Speaker 2: I thought, wait a minute, this would be great because

1754
01:36:20,520 --> 01:36:22,479
Speaker 2: he seems like he's a little nuts. I thought the

1755
01:36:22,479 --> 01:36:27,200
Speaker 2: psychiatrist should appear a little crazy. So I love that.

1756
01:36:27,200 --> 01:36:28,400
Speaker 2: That's how jud Hirsch.

1757
01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:28,760
Speaker 1: Got the role.

1758
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:30,920
Speaker 2: And when you're watching this film, if you've never seen

1759
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:34,519
Speaker 2: it before and it feels familiar, it's because you've probably

1760
01:36:34,520 --> 01:36:37,360
Speaker 2: seen Goodwill Hunting, which I feel like was a prototype

1761
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:42,479
Speaker 2: for that psychiatrist kid relationship. Like this movie was absolutely

1762
01:36:42,479 --> 01:36:43,200
Speaker 2: the prototype for that.

1763
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, gotta say love that office that he has with

1764
01:36:48,439 --> 01:36:53,000
Speaker 1: like the you know, window unit and the ash trays

1765
01:36:53,240 --> 01:37:01,519
Speaker 1: and like, yes, old movie psychiatry like a psychiatrist's office

1766
01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:05,960
Speaker 1: with like you know, his sweaters and his quarterboys.

1767
01:37:06,120 --> 01:37:10,000
Speaker 2: Oh my god, And I love their relationship like this, this,

1768
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:15,400
Speaker 2: this relationship between Conrad and doctor Berger is really special.

1769
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:18,280
Speaker 2: And again it's something I hadn't ever seen on screen before.

1770
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:21,559
Speaker 2: And I barely even knew the psychiatrist existed when I

1771
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:23,240
Speaker 2: was a kid and watched this for the first time,

1772
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:26,240
Speaker 2: and I feel like to watch someone be pushed to

1773
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:28,479
Speaker 2: their limits, like he didn't let this He didn't let

1774
01:37:28,479 --> 01:37:30,559
Speaker 2: this kid get comfortable at all. He was like, we

1775
01:37:30,640 --> 01:37:32,080
Speaker 2: are going to figure this out. I'm not going to

1776
01:37:32,120 --> 01:37:34,439
Speaker 2: answer your questions all the time. I'm going to make

1777
01:37:34,479 --> 01:37:36,960
Speaker 2: you work to answer some of your own questions. And

1778
01:37:37,479 --> 01:37:39,800
Speaker 2: that's just how it's going to be. And I love that.

1779
01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:41,880
Speaker 2: I love seeing that. Like I thought he they were

1780
01:37:41,880 --> 01:37:45,240
Speaker 2: both so fucking fantastic. Everyone was so fantastic in their role.

1781
01:37:46,280 --> 01:37:47,880
Speaker 2: And the other thing I loved from that article is

1782
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:51,520
Speaker 2: Robert Redford said, I thought Richard Dreyfis should play the psychiatrist.

1783
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:54,960
Speaker 2: So I called him and asked. He said, I can't

1784
01:37:55,000 --> 01:37:58,840
Speaker 2: talk right now. I'm having a nervous breakdown. So I said, well,

1785
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:03,040
Speaker 2: I won't bother you. Hope it all works out. Then

1786
01:38:03,080 --> 01:38:06,400
Speaker 2: I went to Donald Sutherland and he said, I don't

1787
01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:08,639
Speaker 2: want to play the psychiatrist, but I'd love to play

1788
01:38:08,680 --> 01:38:09,240
Speaker 2: the husband.

1789
01:38:09,920 --> 01:38:10,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1790
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:12,880
Speaker 2: So I just love that, like finding out those little

1791
01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:14,799
Speaker 2: casting those little casting moves.

1792
01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:21,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. I donald Sutherland too. It's like he's so awesome.

1793
01:38:21,680 --> 01:38:23,840
Speaker 1: We've talked about him, we talked about Clute, We've talked

1794
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:28,559
Speaker 1: about Donald Sutherland before. We know he's a huge giant.

1795
01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:30,519
Speaker 1: What did I say about him? God, that episode was

1796
01:38:30,560 --> 01:38:35,320
Speaker 1: like maybe like our third episode, Like I said, he

1797
01:38:35,400 --> 01:38:39,599
Speaker 1: was like a sexy, open mouthed giant or something like that.

1798
01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:42,320
Speaker 1: I don't now, I don't remember what I called him.

1799
01:38:42,360 --> 01:38:43,519
Speaker 1: Y'all were just gonna have to go back and listen

1800
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:46,479
Speaker 1: to our third episode or something. A laconic oath, that's

1801
01:38:46,479 --> 01:38:49,519
Speaker 1: what I call a laconic oath, Yes, the name of

1802
01:38:49,560 --> 01:38:53,719
Speaker 1: the episode. For Christ's sake. Love that laconic oaf. But like, yeah,

1803
01:38:53,800 --> 01:38:57,799
Speaker 1: I mean, he's such a good actor because he really

1804
01:38:57,880 --> 01:39:01,360
Speaker 1: like community. He really communicates his con nundrum in the

1805
01:39:01,400 --> 01:39:04,679
Speaker 1: film in a really good way, like he's like truly

1806
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:09,600
Speaker 1: in the middle. Absolutely, he the scene where he is

1807
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:13,200
Speaker 1: like running and he's running through the park and he's

1808
01:39:13,360 --> 01:39:16,680
Speaker 1: with his chatty friend. The chatty friend leaves, and then

1809
01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:19,000
Speaker 1: he just starts thinking and thinking and all the thoughts

1810
01:39:19,000 --> 01:39:21,120
Speaker 1: that are popping through his head, his whole situation with

1811
01:39:21,160 --> 01:39:23,800
Speaker 1: his wife and his son and you know, just the

1812
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:28,840
Speaker 1: family drama. And then he trips and he just sort

1813
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:32,880
Speaker 1: of like sits in it in the moment, like he

1814
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:35,000
Speaker 1: just like I tripped, and now I'm just down here,

1815
01:39:35,120 --> 01:39:38,360
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna start, you know, feeling my feelings.

1816
01:39:39,120 --> 01:39:42,000
Speaker 1: I really fucking felt that. I was like, wow, Like

1817
01:39:42,400 --> 01:39:43,519
Speaker 1: he's such a good actor.

1818
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:47,680
Speaker 2: Oh, he's a phenomenal actor, and phenomenal in this film too,

1819
01:39:47,760 --> 01:39:52,760
Speaker 2: because it's it's a role that's very very quiet, Like

1820
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:56,040
Speaker 2: it's not an overplayed like he never has a huge outburst.

1821
01:39:56,160 --> 01:39:59,400
Speaker 2: He never has like a big emotional moment. So all

1822
01:39:59,439 --> 01:40:02,000
Speaker 2: the emotions that you feel when you watch him acting,

1823
01:40:02,040 --> 01:40:05,040
Speaker 2: it's like these tiny movements, these tiny movements with his space,

1824
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:08,679
Speaker 2: these tiny ways that he comes close to touching Conrad

1825
01:40:08,760 --> 01:40:11,160
Speaker 2: and doesn't or does, and like it's just it's very

1826
01:40:11,240 --> 01:40:15,520
Speaker 2: very interesting to watch him as an actor and studying

1827
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:18,719
Speaker 2: that in this film. And again I've said it before

1828
01:40:18,760 --> 01:40:20,800
Speaker 2: and I will continue to say it. Timothy Hutton was

1829
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:26,040
Speaker 2: fucking phenomenal in this movie. One thing that I found unbelievable,

1830
01:40:26,080 --> 01:40:28,000
Speaker 2: which I did not know until I read this in

1831
01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:34,720
Speaker 2: prep for this episode, is that Robert Redford purposely isolated

1832
01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:38,920
Speaker 2: Timothy Hutton, and he instructed the cast and crew to

1833
01:40:39,080 --> 01:40:42,680
Speaker 2: not interact with him on or off the set, and

1834
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:45,360
Speaker 2: so Redford said, I wanted him to feel isolated. It

1835
01:40:45,360 --> 01:40:47,559
Speaker 2: would be up to him what to do with it.

1836
01:40:47,960 --> 01:40:49,519
Speaker 2: But I didn't want him to feel like he had

1837
01:40:49,520 --> 01:40:52,679
Speaker 2: a lot of support because the character didn't. He was wonderful.

1838
01:40:52,720 --> 01:40:54,280
Speaker 2: It was a brand new thing for him, and he

1839
01:40:54,360 --> 01:40:57,720
Speaker 2: was really raw and totally open, and Timothy Hutton had

1840
01:40:57,760 --> 01:40:59,840
Speaker 2: no idea what was going on. He's like people would like,

1841
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:02,679
Speaker 2: you'd go get breakfasts at the craft table and people

1842
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:04,439
Speaker 2: would come up to him and he'd be like, hey,

1843
01:41:04,479 --> 01:41:06,200
Speaker 2: how's it going, And they'll be like great, and then

1844
01:41:06,280 --> 01:41:08,679
Speaker 2: just like take their coffee and leave, Like he had

1845
01:41:08,720 --> 01:41:11,479
Speaker 2: no fucking idea. That Robert Redford said that to them,

1846
01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:12,559
Speaker 2: I just.

1847
01:41:12,520 --> 01:41:16,559
Speaker 1: Have to say, not for nothing, but I have to

1848
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 1: stay for the record that Timothy Hutton and ordinary people

1849
01:41:21,160 --> 01:41:25,360
Speaker 1: is pretty much entirely responsible for this type of guy

1850
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:28,559
Speaker 1: that I would love for the rest of my life,

1851
01:41:30,120 --> 01:41:37,240
Speaker 1: like sensitive, dark haired boy who is going through some

1852
01:41:37,240 --> 01:41:40,040
Speaker 1: stuff and he's just trying to sort out his problems.

1853
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:44,439
Speaker 1: Wears a flannel over a T shirt with like some

1854
01:41:44,640 --> 01:41:52,640
Speaker 1: little running shoes. Disheveled, yeah, disheveled like sweet, but like

1855
01:41:52,840 --> 01:41:59,040
Speaker 1: it's going through something sensitive. I he is the prototype.

1856
01:41:59,080 --> 01:42:02,559
Speaker 1: He set that table for me, and then then for

1857
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:04,400
Speaker 1: the rest of my life. Well, he's gonna love these

1858
01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:06,080
Speaker 1: like sensitive Dagard boys.

1859
01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:10,920
Speaker 2: It's true. It's fucking true. He brought it so hard

1860
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:13,640
Speaker 2: in this movie. And then you see him trying to

1861
01:42:13,640 --> 01:42:17,120
Speaker 2: be like a regular quote unquote teenager and trying to

1862
01:42:17,240 --> 01:42:20,320
Speaker 2: date or not even date, but he's trying to even

1863
01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:24,280
Speaker 2: just like talk to Janine, like he's trying to just

1864
01:42:24,360 --> 01:42:26,840
Speaker 2: talk to a girl and see if she's interested and

1865
01:42:26,920 --> 01:42:31,200
Speaker 2: have a normal experience. And there is this absolutely crushing

1866
01:42:31,280 --> 01:42:35,599
Speaker 2: scene where he takes her out. They finally go out

1867
01:42:35,640 --> 01:42:39,280
Speaker 2: together and they're at a McDonald's and just as she's

1868
01:42:39,360 --> 01:42:42,080
Speaker 2: trying starting to ask him like what happened with you?

1869
01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:44,160
Speaker 2: Like what did you do? What happened? Why were you

1870
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:46,559
Speaker 2: in the hospital, he's starting to tell this story for

1871
01:42:46,600 --> 01:42:50,160
Speaker 2: the first time, and these fucking dopes come in, these

1872
01:42:50,280 --> 01:42:54,160
Speaker 2: idioteen guys and they start like putting paper hats on

1873
01:42:54,240 --> 01:42:56,960
Speaker 2: everyone and like like making the sounds and having a

1874
01:42:56,960 --> 01:43:00,240
Speaker 2: good time, and she starts laughing and you just watch

1875
01:43:00,320 --> 01:43:04,080
Speaker 2: the light go out of him, and I have to

1876
01:43:04,120 --> 01:43:08,360
Speaker 2: believe that part of that is him realizing and having

1877
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:12,080
Speaker 2: been so isolated on this set, because he was able

1878
01:43:12,120 --> 01:43:16,360
Speaker 2: to convey that feeling of total and utter loneliness, like

1879
01:43:16,479 --> 01:43:20,160
Speaker 2: no one in this world can understand him. And it's

1880
01:43:20,200 --> 01:43:23,000
Speaker 2: just an absolutely crushing scene and it's on the heels

1881
01:43:23,080 --> 01:43:25,599
Speaker 2: of you know. We find out that he had this

1882
01:43:25,680 --> 01:43:29,600
Speaker 2: friend in the hospital, Karen, who's played by Dinah Manhoff,

1883
01:43:30,040 --> 01:43:32,880
Speaker 2: and he tries to call her at Christmas time and

1884
01:43:33,040 --> 01:43:36,519
Speaker 2: finds out that she died by suicide. And it again,

1885
01:43:36,600 --> 01:43:39,880
Speaker 2: it's like it sends him spiraling. He really hates being

1886
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:41,960
Speaker 2: in therapy, but he goes to see a therapist. And

1887
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:45,920
Speaker 2: it's again these small things that are that are laid

1888
01:43:45,920 --> 01:43:47,559
Speaker 2: out in this film when you think that it can't

1889
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:49,400
Speaker 2: get worse, like this kid has been through so much,

1890
01:43:49,400 --> 01:43:51,559
Speaker 2: it can't get worse. His brother died. That was awful.

1891
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:54,519
Speaker 2: He tried to commence sue. That was awful. His family

1892
01:43:55,280 --> 01:43:57,360
Speaker 2: is weird. His mom doesn't like him or know how

1893
01:43:57,400 --> 01:43:59,439
Speaker 2: to talk to him. That's awful. His dad's a little

1894
01:43:59,439 --> 01:44:02,080
Speaker 2: bit smothering, that's awful. And then you find out because

1895
01:44:02,120 --> 01:44:06,160
Speaker 2: his fucking swim coach asks him that he had electro

1896
01:44:06,720 --> 01:44:09,840
Speaker 2: shock therapy during that four months in the hospital. And

1897
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:12,960
Speaker 2: you find out because his fucking swim coach is like, well,

1898
01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:16,320
Speaker 2: I wouldn't let them put electricity through my head. And

1899
01:44:16,439 --> 01:44:20,439
Speaker 2: so you're watching this kid trying to readjust after having

1900
01:44:20,479 --> 01:44:26,000
Speaker 2: gone through multiple tragedies and traumas, and the fact that

1901
01:44:26,040 --> 01:44:28,519
Speaker 2: this girl that he likes can't pay attention to him

1902
01:44:28,520 --> 01:44:30,360
Speaker 2: for two minutes is like the final blow.

1903
01:44:31,840 --> 01:44:35,000
Speaker 1: God. That is like one of the like worst feelings

1904
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:37,880
Speaker 1: in the world is when you are like trying to

1905
01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:43,480
Speaker 1: tell somebody that this very serious issue and they're distracted.

1906
01:44:44,280 --> 01:44:46,760
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you know, and so something happens like

1907
01:44:47,080 --> 01:44:50,519
Speaker 1: you know this, like and and in that moment too,

1908
01:44:50,680 --> 01:44:54,400
Speaker 1: it's like she knew she fucked up, Like she was

1909
01:44:54,479 --> 01:44:56,840
Speaker 1: just like I fucked up, but I don't know how

1910
01:44:56,880 --> 01:45:01,160
Speaker 1: to fix it. And it was agonizing. Just that that

1911
01:45:01,280 --> 01:45:04,080
Speaker 1: part agonizes me because you like, I just feel for

1912
01:45:04,120 --> 01:45:07,200
Speaker 1: both of them because they're just young, yes, and they

1913
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:11,679
Speaker 1: don't know how to work it out. You know, God,

1914
01:45:11,760 --> 01:45:12,280
Speaker 1: it's hard.

1915
01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:14,720
Speaker 2: And that's the thing like that you're watching these two teenagers,

1916
01:45:14,720 --> 01:45:18,200
Speaker 2: one who's been through something so intense and traumatic and

1917
01:45:18,240 --> 01:45:22,920
Speaker 2: another one who doesn't know how to respond and still

1918
01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:25,800
Speaker 2: be herself. It's just it's really hard scene to see.

1919
01:45:25,960 --> 01:45:28,040
Speaker 2: And I think the other the other things that are

1920
01:45:28,080 --> 01:45:30,400
Speaker 2: hard for me, because I saw this movie again in school,

1921
01:45:30,760 --> 01:45:33,439
Speaker 2: mind you, I had it. Look, I had an English teacher.

1922
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:35,200
Speaker 2: I won't say his name because I don't know if

1923
01:45:35,240 --> 01:45:38,439
Speaker 2: I legally can. I had an English teacher who was

1924
01:45:38,479 --> 01:45:41,960
Speaker 2: fucking going through it. I guess his daughter was on drugs.

1925
01:45:42,000 --> 01:45:43,960
Speaker 2: He had like a teenage daughter from another They lived

1926
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:46,640
Speaker 2: in another town, so she went to another school. She

1927
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:48,519
Speaker 2: was on drugs and like ran away from home. And

1928
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:50,479
Speaker 2: he was just had like a year or two where

1929
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:52,920
Speaker 2: he was just going through it. And he showed us

1930
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:57,040
Speaker 2: this movie in class. So I'm like fourteen, and this

1931
01:45:57,200 --> 01:45:59,559
Speaker 2: is the other part of this film that I feel

1932
01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:03,240
Speaker 2: like is traumatic for me because at this point in

1933
01:46:03,240 --> 01:46:06,880
Speaker 2: my life, I was suicidal. So watching a movie like

1934
01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:11,040
Speaker 2: this was not great for me to see because I

1935
01:46:11,120 --> 01:46:13,360
Speaker 2: was processing my own shit. And one of the things

1936
01:46:13,360 --> 01:46:17,559
Speaker 2: that is two truly heartbreaking scenes for me is when

1937
01:46:18,160 --> 01:46:22,280
Speaker 2: Conrad's flashing back to or it's I think it's Conrad

1938
01:46:22,360 --> 01:46:27,200
Speaker 2: or either or Calvin possibly who's flashing back to the

1939
01:46:27,320 --> 01:46:32,160
Speaker 2: night that he was hospitalized. And as he's being loaded

1940
01:46:32,200 --> 01:46:35,960
Speaker 2: into the ambulance, you hear in the background one of

1941
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:40,759
Speaker 2: the EMTs say the cuts are vertical. He really meant business.

1942
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:46,599
Speaker 2: And then you see when you do finally see his wrists,

1943
01:46:46,680 --> 01:46:50,240
Speaker 2: you realize that, like he cut up, and he did

1944
01:46:50,280 --> 01:46:53,840
Speaker 2: cut vertically, like there are several slashes on his wrists,

1945
01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:56,240
Speaker 2: like he really did want to die. And that is

1946
01:46:56,320 --> 01:46:59,519
Speaker 2: just so fucking hard to say to this I burst

1947
01:46:59,560 --> 01:47:03,599
Speaker 2: into teer watching that scene again. It's just so hard

1948
01:47:03,680 --> 01:47:07,120
Speaker 2: to take. After watching for you know, a couple of hours,

1949
01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:10,280
Speaker 2: this kid struggle, and then by the point where they

1950
01:47:10,320 --> 01:47:14,280
Speaker 2: show that, you realize and you're kind of in it

1951
01:47:14,360 --> 01:47:17,439
Speaker 2: with him and realize why he would attempt something like that.

1952
01:47:17,560 --> 01:47:21,160
Speaker 2: And the other way that that becomes perfectly clear is

1953
01:47:21,160 --> 01:47:24,120
Speaker 2: when after Karen dies, he goes to talk to doctor Berger,

1954
01:47:24,680 --> 01:47:26,680
Speaker 2: and doctor Burger's kind of pushing him and is like,

1955
01:47:26,760 --> 01:47:28,280
Speaker 2: you know, up to this point been like you know

1956
01:47:28,280 --> 01:47:31,120
Speaker 2: there's someone, there's someone beside your mother that you have

1957
01:47:31,160 --> 01:47:32,920
Speaker 2: to forgive, and Conrad's like, I don't know what the

1958
01:47:32,960 --> 01:47:35,880
Speaker 2: fuck you're talking about. But in this scene, he's like crying.

1959
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:40,080
Speaker 2: He goes to doctor Berger and doctor Berger says, what

1960
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:45,320
Speaker 2: was the one wrong thing you did? And Conrad says,

1961
01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:49,479
Speaker 2: I hung on. So when they're showing this scene of

1962
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:52,599
Speaker 2: his brother drowning, and his brother is like jockey and

1963
01:47:52,640 --> 01:47:55,280
Speaker 2: playing it like a joke because he thinks he's invincible,

1964
01:47:55,320 --> 01:47:57,240
Speaker 2: because that's how he's been made to feel his whole

1965
01:47:57,280 --> 01:48:02,439
Speaker 2: fucking life. So when real rhet happens, and Conrad's trying

1966
01:48:02,439 --> 01:48:04,880
Speaker 2: to save his brother's life and tell him hang on

1967
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:06,759
Speaker 2: to this thing, like we got caught in the storm.

1968
01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:10,000
Speaker 2: That fucking sucks, hang on to the boat, get through this,

1969
01:48:10,280 --> 01:48:12,920
Speaker 2: and his brother lets go, and his brother's playing it

1970
01:48:12,960 --> 01:48:14,920
Speaker 2: like in a jokey way, not to say he deserved

1971
01:48:14,920 --> 01:48:18,720
Speaker 2: to die, but that the guilt Conrad is carrying is

1972
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:22,280
Speaker 2: that he could save himself and he couldn't save his brother.

1973
01:48:22,840 --> 01:48:27,320
Speaker 2: And I just again fucking wept absolute monster, Like I

1974
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:30,479
Speaker 2: just cried like a monster. I could not believe it.

1975
01:48:30,479 --> 01:48:33,600
Speaker 2: And there are moments again in this film, and I

1976
01:48:33,600 --> 01:48:35,920
Speaker 2: think this is part of what makes Robert Redford such

1977
01:48:35,920 --> 01:48:40,520
Speaker 2: a good director, that are so quiet and so impactful,

1978
01:48:41,160 --> 01:48:43,120
Speaker 2: and those are two of them for me, where you

1979
01:48:43,200 --> 01:48:46,080
Speaker 2: just hear in the background the EMT guy's talking and

1980
01:48:46,120 --> 01:48:51,200
Speaker 2: then you hear Conrad finally reach this truth about himself

1981
01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:54,720
Speaker 2: and it is crushing and there's nothing he can do

1982
01:48:54,760 --> 01:48:57,559
Speaker 2: about it. It is the truth and that is it,

1983
01:48:58,000 --> 01:49:01,000
Speaker 2: and he cannot heal from that because there's because his

1984
01:49:01,080 --> 01:49:05,679
Speaker 2: brother still died and he was still the wrong son

1985
01:49:05,800 --> 01:49:10,960
Speaker 2: survived essentially, and he also survived his suicide attempt, so

1986
01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:16,200
Speaker 2: it's like he's just carrying it. So I just again

1987
01:49:16,360 --> 01:49:19,320
Speaker 2: could talk about this movie for a million hours. It's

1988
01:49:19,360 --> 01:49:23,760
Speaker 2: a very difficult movie. It's a little controversial, I think

1989
01:49:23,800 --> 01:49:28,120
Speaker 2: for some people because it really shines a light on

1990
01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:34,360
Speaker 2: how the normalcy of family can be the downfall of

1991
01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:37,760
Speaker 2: a family that insistence on normalcy at all costs, and

1992
01:49:37,800 --> 01:49:39,920
Speaker 2: we see that with Calvin. We see him trying so

1993
01:49:40,120 --> 01:49:43,840
Speaker 2: hard to love his wife and love his son, and

1994
01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:48,960
Speaker 2: that is what ultimately crushes them, is that insistence that

1995
01:49:49,040 --> 01:49:51,439
Speaker 2: they not be who they are and feel what they feel.

1996
01:49:52,360 --> 01:49:55,760
Speaker 2: So fuck this movie, I do too.

1997
01:49:56,120 --> 01:50:00,960
Speaker 1: I love it so much. I love it for, you know,

1998
01:50:01,120 --> 01:50:06,599
Speaker 1: for these very like thought provoking real, you know moments.

1999
01:50:06,640 --> 01:50:09,320
Speaker 1: But and I love it for the frivolous stuff too.

2000
01:50:10,240 --> 01:50:13,600
Speaker 1: I love a white turtleneck on the and the the

2001
01:50:13,640 --> 01:50:17,960
Speaker 1: white turtleneck and the clocks on Elizabeth McGovern's character.

2002
01:50:18,080 --> 01:50:18,880
Speaker 2: A plaid skirt.

2003
01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:22,920
Speaker 1: I love it, love that early eighties fashion. But you know,

2004
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:25,880
Speaker 1: part of what I think is interesting to watching this

2005
01:50:26,000 --> 01:50:28,559
Speaker 1: in the kind of modern context. And you know, we

2006
01:50:28,640 --> 01:50:30,599
Speaker 1: try to to put a lot of emphasis on that

2007
01:50:30,720 --> 01:50:34,760
Speaker 1: when we talk about films on this podcast. But you know,

2008
01:50:35,000 --> 01:50:39,840
Speaker 1: I think that as a culture, we have only just

2009
01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:45,240
Speaker 1: really started to become more aware of therapy and self

2010
01:50:45,400 --> 01:50:50,760
Speaker 1: awareness and you know, sort of self improvement. Right. So

2011
01:50:52,680 --> 01:50:56,720
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes I think if if you have, if

2012
01:50:56,720 --> 01:51:00,519
Speaker 1: you have that perspective of this modern perspective where everybody

2013
01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:03,719
Speaker 1: is in therapy and everybody talks about everything, you would

2014
01:51:03,760 --> 01:51:07,120
Speaker 1: watch a film like this and be like, what are

2015
01:51:07,200 --> 01:51:09,080
Speaker 1: what is wrong with this family? They don't talk to

2016
01:51:09,120 --> 01:51:13,920
Speaker 1: one another, they're ashamed of seeking treatment and going to

2017
01:51:13,960 --> 01:51:16,679
Speaker 1: get help for things that are bothering them, and everybody's

2018
01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:22,840
Speaker 1: just very like closed off. But the reality is is

2019
01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:25,960
Speaker 1: that a lot of people still act this way towards

2020
01:51:25,960 --> 01:51:31,160
Speaker 1: their own fields, and it's hard to watch that in

2021
01:51:31,240 --> 01:51:34,080
Speaker 1: a movie sometimes where you're just like, this person is

2022
01:51:34,160 --> 01:51:37,840
Speaker 1: working against their best interest and really the bridge is there,

2023
01:51:37,960 --> 01:51:40,439
Speaker 1: they just don't want to walk across it, and it's hard.

2024
01:51:40,640 --> 01:51:42,360
Speaker 1: It's hard to see that, you.

2025
01:51:42,240 --> 01:51:47,599
Speaker 2: Know, oh brutal. Well. I just realized we've been talking

2026
01:51:47,600 --> 01:51:51,000
Speaker 2: for one and twenty minutes. I know, I know, and

2027
01:51:51,040 --> 01:51:54,599
Speaker 2: I could talk about this forever. And I'm so glad

2028
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:58,160
Speaker 2: that we got to go so deep or you know,

2029
01:51:58,240 --> 01:52:00,360
Speaker 2: to start to dive in on both of these filmss.

2030
01:52:00,479 --> 01:52:03,160
Speaker 2: And you know, if you have the wherewithal to watch

2031
01:52:03,200 --> 01:52:05,000
Speaker 2: them or if you're interested in watching them, I hope

2032
01:52:05,000 --> 01:52:08,640
Speaker 2: you do. I think they're both extraordinary films for very

2033
01:52:08,640 --> 01:52:13,080
Speaker 2: different reasons and ordinary people just it just rocks my world.

2034
01:52:13,080 --> 01:52:16,280
Speaker 2: I understand why my teacher played it when we were fourteen,

2035
01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:18,720
Speaker 2: but we were still too young for it, so like,

2036
01:52:18,760 --> 01:52:21,439
Speaker 2: I get it. It was one of those weird ways

2037
01:52:21,439 --> 01:52:25,240
Speaker 2: that an adult was trying to communicate with us didn't work,

2038
01:52:26,880 --> 01:52:29,360
Speaker 2: but it's stuck with me, like this film really stuck

2039
01:52:29,360 --> 01:52:31,960
Speaker 2: with me. And I'm glad we got to talk about

2040
01:52:31,960 --> 01:52:34,160
Speaker 2: these two, these two movies me too.

2041
01:52:34,479 --> 01:52:39,320
Speaker 1: And I'm just as your friend, I'm happy that you

2042
01:52:40,000 --> 01:52:43,400
Speaker 1: shared some stuff about yourself and how this movie connected

2043
01:52:43,439 --> 01:52:45,960
Speaker 1: to your own experiences. I feel like that's a very

2044
01:52:46,080 --> 01:52:50,479
Speaker 1: valuable thing to share with Thank you with us who

2045
01:52:50,560 --> 01:52:55,799
Speaker 1: are listening so well. Do you want to talk about

2046
01:52:56,040 --> 01:52:58,640
Speaker 1: next week's movies or can we go on from this?

2047
01:52:58,760 --> 01:53:01,479
Speaker 1: I don't know. Should wed podcast right fucking out?

2048
01:53:01,920 --> 01:53:04,599
Speaker 2: I feel like we should mention what movies we plan

2049
01:53:04,720 --> 01:53:07,880
Speaker 2: to watch next week and we'll just see what happens

2050
01:53:07,880 --> 01:53:09,120
Speaker 2: after this episode comes out.

2051
01:53:11,680 --> 01:53:17,759
Speaker 1: We have traumatized people so much that we simply cannot

2052
01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:20,719
Speaker 1: do any more episodes. You might be able to guess

2053
01:53:20,720 --> 01:53:24,160
Speaker 1: this one. Who knows, But the movies for next week

2054
01:53:24,200 --> 01:53:29,479
Speaker 1: are The Gambler from nineteen seventy four and Thief from

2055
01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:31,959
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one.

2056
01:53:32,280 --> 01:53:37,200
Speaker 2: I mean, truly, of all the themes we have ever had,

2057
01:53:37,479 --> 01:53:40,599
Speaker 2: this is the easiest one to guess.

2058
01:53:41,720 --> 01:53:43,280
Speaker 1: If you know anything about us.

2059
01:53:45,439 --> 01:53:47,719
Speaker 2: This should be an absolute cinch.

2060
01:53:49,000 --> 01:53:52,879
Speaker 1: Well listen. If you have your own thoughts about this episode,

2061
01:53:52,880 --> 01:53:57,479
Speaker 1: I know it was a big one, a lot of heavy,

2062
01:53:57,600 --> 01:54:00,920
Speaker 1: heavy thoughts, But if you want to, you can email

2063
01:54:01,040 --> 01:54:02,880
Speaker 1: us at I Saw what you did pot at gmail

2064
01:54:02,960 --> 01:54:04,000
Speaker 1: dot com.

2065
01:54:04,760 --> 01:54:06,960
Speaker 2: And we also have a PO box if you want

2066
01:54:06,960 --> 01:54:08,840
Speaker 2: to send us handwritten letters. We've been getting a ton

2067
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:12,120
Speaker 2: of those. Our po box is linked on our link

2068
01:54:12,160 --> 01:54:15,680
Speaker 2: tree and our Instagram account where you can find you

2069
01:54:15,760 --> 01:54:18,160
Speaker 2: know only that's one of our social media accounts. You

2070
01:54:18,200 --> 01:54:21,040
Speaker 2: can find us at I saw pod on Instagram and Twitter.

2071
01:54:21,760 --> 01:54:26,720
Speaker 1: Yes and listen if you're around you know, Apple, Spotify,

2072
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:30,720
Speaker 1: leave us a review, you know, click of five stars

2073
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:32,760
Speaker 1: or I don't know if they have a star system

2074
01:54:32,800 --> 01:54:35,400
Speaker 1: on Spotify, but if they do, click the most stars,

2075
01:54:36,080 --> 01:54:38,680
Speaker 1: meaning you like it, it really helps us out. We

2076
01:54:38,680 --> 01:54:42,880
Speaker 1: would really appreciate it. On that note, Danielle, it was

2077
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:45,120
Speaker 1: such a fucking pleasure to do this episode with you.

2078
01:54:45,200 --> 01:54:47,760
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that I get to talk movies with

2079
01:54:47,800 --> 01:54:48,560
Speaker 1: you every week.

2080
01:54:48,800 --> 01:54:51,520
Speaker 2: Truly could not nothing could be better. I'm really grateful

2081
01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:53,400
Speaker 2: for you and I'm glad we got to do this

2082
01:54:53,920 --> 01:54:55,000
Speaker 2: and I'm glad you feel better.

2083
01:54:55,440 --> 01:55:00,360
Speaker 1: Thank you, not as scared as I was over to hours.

2084
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:01,200
Speaker 2: Good.

2085
01:55:01,920 --> 01:55:09,760
Speaker 1: Thanks everybody for listening. We'll see you next time. By BA.

2086
01:55:11,760 --> 01:55:14,520
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production, produced and mixed

2087
01:55:14,520 --> 01:55:17,640
Speaker 2: by Casey O'Brien. Our theme song is by Tom bry Fogel,

2088
01:55:17,960 --> 01:55:21,680
Speaker 2: artwork by Garrett Ross. Our executive producers are Georgia Hartstart

2089
01:55:21,760 --> 01:55:24,520
Speaker 2: Caringkle Gareth and Daniel Kramer. You can follow us on

2090
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:27,520
Speaker 2: Instagram and Twitter at I Saw pod, and you can

2091
01:55:27,560 --> 01:55:29,840
Speaker 2: email us at I Saw what you did Pod at

2092
01:55:29,880 --> 01:55:30,280
Speaker 2: gmail