Speaker 1: On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef invest start
Speaker 1: changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello and welcome to
Speaker 1: the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante, my name
Speaker 1: is Jamie loft It, and we host a podcast about
Speaker 1: how the representation of women in movies is usually not
Speaker 1: very good. We've been hosting Ken doing it. Hell yeah.
Speaker 1: So we use the Bechdel Test as a jumping off
Speaker 1: point for the discussion of how women are portrayed in
Speaker 1: a certain movie. Bechdel Test for all you roubes, of course,
Speaker 1: being the media metric invented by cartoonist Alison Bechdel that
Speaker 1: requires that, for our purposes, that two female identifying characters
Speaker 1: with names talk about something other than a man in
Speaker 1: conversation for just two lines of diala. Should we i'monstrate this?
Speaker 1: We haven't done this. We haven't done that in a while. Okay, um, hey, Jamie,
Speaker 1: what is your favorite? Oh my god, I forget how
Speaker 1: to not talk about man? Okay, what, No, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: keep going. Okay, what's your favorite Meryl Street movie. How
Speaker 1: do you have to think about this? Oh? Is this
Speaker 1: a transition? No question? No, But how are you not
Speaker 1: remembering not only your favorite Meryl Street movie but your
Speaker 1: favorite Oh my god, Doubt Dog is my favorite? Oh
Speaker 1: my god, having a melt. Oh my god, Doubt is
Speaker 1: my favorite movie. I can't. I don't know. I'm very sick.
Speaker 1: I was like Julia and Julia that can't be Sorry,
Speaker 1: we all have a lapse in our memories. I just
Speaker 1: lost sight of who I am. Remember. I think it
Speaker 1: was the pulp fiction episode that I kept accidentally calling
Speaker 1: her Meryl Street. Yes, that was a fun slippy, I believe.
Speaker 1: Forgot doubt. Jesus Christ. That's embarrassing. Okay, I forgive you.
Speaker 1: I gotta be vulnerable on those airwaves. People need people
Speaker 1: need it. So anyway that you know, we're talking about
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep and her movies, so that passes to back
Speaker 1: to me. We're taking another cruise down Meryl Street today
Speaker 1: with another street fade. ALLU street heads out there, people
Speaker 1: pounding Meryl Street, pounding the payment of the pornographic of
Speaker 1: Meryl Street. Today we're talking about the devil Wares product.
Speaker 1: That's right, two thousand six. Joint to join us in
Speaker 1: our discussion. Is our guest today as a writer, editor
Speaker 1: and co host of back Talk podcast on Bitch Media.
Speaker 1: It's Amy Lamb. Hi, guys, welcome, thanks for being here.
Speaker 1: I am very, very very excited to talk about this movie.
Speaker 1: What is your history, your relationship? Why did you pick
Speaker 1: this movie? So I had read the book, and I
Speaker 1: don't even remember how I got the book. I was
Speaker 1: living and teaching in China, and um, it was like
Speaker 1: a week where there was no school. So I just
Speaker 1: took this like um spontaneous trip with some other teachers,
Speaker 1: and somehow I got the book. And I really don't
Speaker 1: remember how I got the book. So I was like,
Speaker 1: sometimes that book just appears inns. I'm wondering if it
Speaker 1: was like at the guesthouse you were staying. I I
Speaker 1: just have a terrible memory. But so I was reading
Speaker 1: the book because I was also trying to avoid the
Speaker 1: people I was traveling with. So it was one of
Speaker 1: those thing stories. So I read it and the book
Speaker 1: isn't that good, but it I studied um journalism as
Speaker 1: my undergrad so I was like one of those people
Speaker 1: where I'm like, maybe one day I want to be
Speaker 1: in this media world, so I need to read it.
Speaker 1: Like like I had known that like the woman who
Speaker 1: wrote it, I'm forgetting her name, Laurenby. She had worked
Speaker 1: at Bogan. This supposed to be based off of an
Speaker 1: I Win tour. So I was just like, let me
Speaker 1: read about this like boss lady or whatever. And also
Speaker 1: because I my very first job out of school. I
Speaker 1: don't know how much to say, but I had worked
Speaker 1: for somebody who had these vibes and it was at
Speaker 1: a media place, like she had these types of vibes
Speaker 1: where like one example is um, everybody came to the
Speaker 1: office at like ten or nine thirty, but I had
Speaker 1: to come in half an hour early, just me so
Speaker 1: that I could turn on her computer. Like this is
Speaker 1: back in the day where like like like so that
Speaker 1: I had to go into her office and like pushed
Speaker 1: the power button and when I did it, she would
Speaker 1: holler at me because I wasn't in her office. I
Speaker 1: was like in the hall. She would be like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: I knew I was like funk, I forgot to turn
Speaker 1: on her computer. So like so I had experience, and
Speaker 1: then so I wanted to read this book about another
Speaker 1: like weird boss woman and I read the book and
Speaker 1: I was just like, this is like a really fun read,
Speaker 1: even though the writing wasn't like amazing. And I think
Speaker 1: I read it an anticipation cause I knew the movie
Speaker 1: was out because I wanted to watch the movie. And
Speaker 1: this is one of those cases where the movie is
Speaker 1: way better than the book. I haven't read the books.
Speaker 1: The movie is just like so much more fun and
Speaker 1: like lush and interesting look at, especially if you kind
Speaker 1: of enjoy fashion in some way. So I was living
Speaker 1: in China, so I had bought the bootleg version of
Speaker 1: it like for like a dollar or something, and I
Speaker 1: would watch it on repeat, like because I lived in
Speaker 1: this like very cold department where like there's nothing to
Speaker 1: do over the winter time. It was like always four
Speaker 1: dy degrees and I was just like have a space heater,
Speaker 1: like frying my legs. Why I would watch watch it
Speaker 1: over and over again on my laptop, so I would.
Speaker 1: I watched it repeat forever, and then I didn't watch
Speaker 1: it for a long long time because it was like
Speaker 1: like two thousand and seven, and recently I just started
Speaker 1: watching it again and again and it titiuation of doing
Speaker 1: this podcast, but also just it's just so fun. But
Speaker 1: I think watching it now with like a fresh pair
Speaker 1: of ice, just like, wow, this movie would be so
Speaker 1: different than it was mad now and like the media
Speaker 1: landscape or whatever. Yeah, that's why. I mean, it's only
Speaker 1: twelve years old. But watching it back, you're just like, whoa,
Speaker 1: there is a lot of stuff that this movie. Watching
Speaker 1: it this time around was like a very interesting mixed
Speaker 1: bag because and I am very attached to it. I
Speaker 1: saw this movie when it came out in two thousands six,
Speaker 1: I would have been in middle school, and it was
Speaker 1: the perfect movie to see in middle school. I'd also
Speaker 1: read the book where I would like go to and
Speaker 1: I was in middle school, had to go to the
Speaker 1: public library and then go to like the ladies fiction section,
Speaker 1: so it's like hitting Meg Cabin books, but the ones
Speaker 1: for adults, not the Princess Diaries. And then I read
Speaker 1: all the Sophie Kinsella Shopoholic books, which were trash garbage,
Speaker 1: as were the movies, but this was I read this
Speaker 1: book too, and I totally agree with the amy. I
Speaker 1: think that the movie is so much the book is
Speaker 1: like so much fun to read and you can like
Speaker 1: iTap through it because it's so that if and I've
Speaker 1: read it in literally middle school, but even then I
Speaker 1: was like, well, this is very like catty and pointed
Speaker 1: and it's just sort of this like veiled hate letter
Speaker 1: to Anna Wintour, which is fun to read. But the
Speaker 1: movie definitely so I think, removes itself from the direct
Speaker 1: like nature of the book. And yeah, so I saw
Speaker 1: it with my mom and some friends in middle school.
Speaker 1: We all loved it. Revisit it. It's like a comfort
Speaker 1: food movie. I could have it on in the bat.
Speaker 1: I think I've had it on the background of doing
Speaker 1: other stuff multiple times since then. It is I find
Speaker 1: that a lot of movies that I either have to
Speaker 1: revisit or watch for the first time for this podcast
Speaker 1: feel like a chore to get through, and I didn't
Speaker 1: really feel like that for this movie. I was like
Speaker 1: actually enjoying myself when I was watching it. And that's
Speaker 1: not to say it's not without its problems, but I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, this is fun. I saw it for
Speaker 1: the first time. I think it was around the time
Speaker 1: that I was working in a similar professional scenario where
Speaker 1: I had a veiled description, but I was living in
Speaker 1: New York City ever heard of it. I was working
Speaker 1: as an assistant at a literary management company. I didn't
Speaker 1: know you did that. Uh. Yeah, that was like my
Speaker 1: first real job out of college, which of course I
Speaker 1: did go to and then I did go to uh
Speaker 1: grad school for a master's degree screen running from Boston University. Um.
Speaker 1: So I was working at this job and I was
Speaker 1: an assistant to this guy who was very emotionally abusive
Speaker 1: to his employees. He was racist, he was homophobic, he
Speaker 1: was sexist. He constantly undermined my work and my value.
Speaker 1: He he would make mistakes and then blame me for
Speaker 1: them and then yell at me for them and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. So like, this is like such a horrible
Speaker 1: toxic work environment and watching this movie kind of like
Speaker 1: triggered some mild pts that I have about that job.
Speaker 1: Um but I still enjoyed the movie all the same.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I I think I watched this movie around
Speaker 1: the same time, So that would have been in like
Speaker 1: two thousand nine ish that I saw the movie for
Speaker 1: the first time when I was working at this job,
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, this used to be my life,
Speaker 1: but yeah, so that's my history. Was it I only
Speaker 1: saw at the one time and then until rewatching it
Speaker 1: for this episode. Shall I do the recap? Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: I didn't. I'm so interested to hear everyone's repressed assistant memories.
Speaker 1: This is fascinating. I was wondering if I was going
Speaker 1: to have any Playboy flashbacks when I was walking, because
Speaker 1: I've also worked at a print magazine, but no one. Uh.
Speaker 1: If you're working at a magazine that is failing and
Speaker 1: it no longer culturally relevant, the pressure is lower. It's
Speaker 1: just kind of sad. It's just alcohol everywhere. So no
Speaker 1: PTSD ties from me. Unfortunately. Alright, let's recount. Great, so
Speaker 1: we're all, we're all part of this. We meet Andy Sachs.
Speaker 1: That's Anne Hathaway's character. She interviews for a job to
Speaker 1: be the second assistant of Miranda Priestley. She's a recent
Speaker 1: brown grade. She's an aspiring journalist. She's gotten sorry, Lauren
Speaker 1: Weisberger was a recent There's so many details of this
Speaker 1: story where Lauren Weisberger changes one thing and she's like,
Speaker 1: it's not me. Andy has a middle part, so we
Speaker 1: know she is not a fashion icr um coated anne
Speaker 1: Hathaway language and Miranda Priestley Meryl Street Street of course. Um.
Speaker 1: She is the editor in chief. Of Runway, a like
Speaker 1: high end fashion magazine, similar to him. We may know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wonder what it could be. And she her whole
Speaker 1: thing is that she is a bit. It's kind of
Speaker 1: her thing. That's kind of her thing. She's very high maintenance,
Speaker 1: she's very demanding, and she wears scarves big part of
Speaker 1: her identity. I don't even know what that means, like
Speaker 1: these French is it French French silk scarf? Yeah, which
Speaker 1: is a play on Anna Winter always wears gigantic sunglasses
Speaker 1: and make her look like a bug. The wild part
Speaker 1: about when Andy comes into interview for the job, She's like, oh,
Speaker 1: it was like the tempt Agency Center. It was between
Speaker 1: this very glamorous, like high budget magazine and liked Trader
Speaker 1: or something like that. And I was like, but really like, also,
Speaker 1: don't say that in the interview, right there are so
Speaker 1: the way she conducts herself in that interview is very strange,
Speaker 1: the way everyone conducts themselves in that interview. But it's like,
Speaker 1: imagine having the gall to go into an interview for
Speaker 1: whether you care about the industry or not, like a
Speaker 1: sought after job and just be like, I don't know
Speaker 1: what this is. I don't know. I think I'm too
Speaker 1: good for it, and who are you anyways, I'd like
Speaker 1: the job, never heard of it. It's like I was
Speaker 1: on Emily blunt side for that because only once. It's
Speaker 1: like why did you hire her? It's like no one knows. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So basically Miranda takes a chance on her because Andy
Speaker 1: makes a case for herself and she's like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't fit in here, but I'm smart and I learned fast,
Speaker 1: and I'm a hard worker and I'll do a good job.
Speaker 1: So Miranda hires her. We've met Emily played by Emily Blunt,
Speaker 1: and she is similarly like ruthless and um kind of
Speaker 1: dismissive of Andy, and she's like the first assistance, so
Speaker 1: she gets the more important responsibilities and she gets to
Speaker 1: go to Paris for a week with Miranda, and she
Speaker 1: lives and dies for it. We learned about the book,
Speaker 1: which is like a mock up of the current issue,
Speaker 1: which Miranda looks at and gives notes on every night,
Speaker 1: hard copy. This is like, shockingly, I don't magazines are
Speaker 1: weird because it's like print is dead, right, and it
Speaker 1: also was dead in two thousand and six, but still
Speaker 1: pretty pretty dead. I do have to introject a little
Speaker 1: because Bitch Media also makes a print magazine four times
Speaker 1: a year. It's a quarter Ofly magazine, and it is
Speaker 1: I mean, it's very expensive. So I think that's why
Speaker 1: it's super dead. It is super dead, and like which
Speaker 1: media is like read or funded? So like we're always
Speaker 1: doing the annoying kind of do we need to us
Speaker 1: that we can keep printing this magazine campaigns? But yeah,
Speaker 1: like we do. We do have to do a book
Speaker 1: so that you can print it out and look at
Speaker 1: it and see what it looks like when it's going
Speaker 1: to go to print. But the wild thing that I
Speaker 1: think about Andy' is that like she's like, what's a book? Right,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, you went to Northwestern. You guys never
Speaker 1: like printed things up to prove that she studied journalists them,
Speaker 1: you know, So like there are these moments where it's
Speaker 1: just like I'm is, like, why did you write? Andy? Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like certain things that if she were yeah, like
Speaker 1: if she were a journalism major, she would know about
Speaker 1: a mockup, you would think, But it is at every
Speaker 1: magazine I ever, the book is still a thing. It's
Speaker 1: still a yeah, there used to be this man, who
Speaker 1: are old editor in chief at Playboy, would drive the
Speaker 1: book to Hugh Hefner's freaky mansion every day at four
Speaker 1: pm and you have to be like, do this, and
Speaker 1: then you have to drive the book back. It was
Speaker 1: like a whole and I'm just like, can we teach
Speaker 1: you Heffner how to use email? And the answer is like, no,
Speaker 1: you can't. That's the thing this movie is that it's
Speaker 1: like such an important responsibility to deliver the book that
Speaker 1: normally it would be the second assistants job. But until
Speaker 1: Miranda trusts Andy to not be like a dangerous person,
Speaker 1: she she's not going to do it. Um, get rid
Speaker 1: of that middle part and then we'll talk. We meet Nigel,
Speaker 1: which is Stanley Tucci, the teach if you will teaches
Speaker 1: in rare form in this movie, yes, the tach. I mean,
Speaker 1: his character is all over the place. But I love
Speaker 1: when gets work, which is a lot he's in movies.
Speaker 1: Touch okay, touch in Alfred Molina both delivered killer performances
Speaker 1: in Feud last year, so good for them, good for them.
Speaker 1: I mean Tooch was nominated, Alfred, as we know, was snubbed.
Speaker 1: So but you know what Alfred was on our podcast
Speaker 1: was the real winner here. So Andy is having a
Speaker 1: really hard time with the job at first because Miranda
Speaker 1: is a devil who wears product I love. I love
Speaker 1: that stu very ridiculous shot of her getting out of
Speaker 1: the car and then these zoom in on that Bag's
Speaker 1: like just so, it's just it's so, it's like such
Speaker 1: an obnoxious filming the device. But I like loved it,
Speaker 1: so I thought it was fun. I like the things
Speaker 1: that this movie chooses to knock you over the head with.
Speaker 1: I'm usually okay, I'm like, you know what, she is
Speaker 1: a devil and she and she there's no way around it. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Andy has a boyfriend named Nate and in Entourage, who
Speaker 1: is Vince whatever the fuck his name is in Entourage,
Speaker 1: a show that I unfortunately did watch six seasons of. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed about it. Now we all have her, we
Speaker 1: all have her things that are dark. Um, and she's
Speaker 1: got her friends and they're all like, wow, your jud
Speaker 1: sounds crazy. Oh my god. Tracy Tom's is one of
Speaker 1: the friends from Rent. Yes, always criminally underused and supporting
Speaker 1: role she's given. She's great. We don't even learn her
Speaker 1: name until like towards the end of the movie, she's like, Lily, Hey,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, oh, your name is Lily. Also, the
Speaker 1: guy that the my crush from mad Men is in
Speaker 1: the friend group to Summer. Yeah. Yeah, he's a first
Speaker 1: I will never watch mad Men again. But he was
Speaker 1: the cutest. He was kind of like a beta. Yeah
Speaker 1: in mad Men, right, he's a thick beta boy. He's
Speaker 1: like a thick a thick horny beta. I guess thick
Speaker 1: horny beta. Yeah, that about that. I think that's like
Speaker 1: your new line of merch just for thick horny uh.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, there is that scene where Miranda gives
Speaker 1: this big monologue about Marillion, and she's the iconic monologue
Speaker 1: of the movie. Yeah, besides when she says I'm the
Speaker 1: devil and product I didn't write, I didn't see it
Speaker 1: happens in like four Guys. It's in that shot where
Speaker 1: you see her for the first time she loves to
Speaker 1: camera watching the world where gonna get the double foot version,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of Meryl Street breaking the fourth wall.
Speaker 1: So then Andy is starting to get at the hang
Speaker 1: of the job, but she is also like still making
Speaker 1: mistakes and she's like why doesn't Miranda appreciate my work
Speaker 1: because she goes to Nigel for advice, and then we
Speaker 1: get one of the most intense anti millennial tirades I've
Speaker 1: ever heard in a movie that seemed bugged me. I mean,
Speaker 1: and this was like two thousand six is like the
Speaker 1: beginning of like you won't think you're so special, don't you?
Speaker 1: He pays for everything, and it's just like she just
Speaker 1: wants to be you know, she's making like two dollars
Speaker 1: an hour and it's being screamed at, can you and
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, you need to. Like it's like an
Speaker 1: old man saying like I had to walk five miles
Speaker 1: in the snow to be whipped by Meryl Streep and
Speaker 1: like that sort of we'll get to that, but that
Speaker 1: whole vibe was like, oh, this is like early millennial
Speaker 1: hatred and movies. He also says, which is a line
Speaker 1: that gets repeated a number of times in the movie,
Speaker 1: but it's like a million girls would kill to have
Speaker 1: your job. And that's something my old boss said to
Speaker 1: me regularly when I was like, I've been doing a
Speaker 1: good job and he's like, you know what, you million
Speaker 1: girls would kill to have the job you have right now,
Speaker 1: and it was like, no, they wouldn't stop sucks stick away.
Speaker 1: It's from the book because all over the book I
Speaker 1: don't remember, like, but it says like multiple characters say
Speaker 1: that to her, and so that's one of the things
Speaker 1: that definitely carried over in the movie. Makes sense, they're
Speaker 1: a gas lady work environment, but that seems like a
Speaker 1: reflection of at least her experience, and it sounds like
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of us. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: way to be like, hey, you're disposable. So if you
Speaker 1: don't do a better job, like yeah, like I can
Speaker 1: be mean to you, and if someone's mean to you,
Speaker 1: don't say anything, or we'll just be mean to someone else. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: You know, listening to you guys say this, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that is because like so when I
Speaker 1: read the book and I watched the movie, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm really girls would die for that job. Andy do
Speaker 1: a better I guess, well that he's probably not factually incorrect,
Speaker 1: like there would be someone who would take her job
Speaker 1: in a second, but just like the standard of like yeah,
Speaker 1: if you want to be in an entry level position,
Speaker 1: you have to be flogged, like it's just like take
Speaker 1: the abuse that we give you brutal. Yeah, okay. So
Speaker 1: then he's like, okay, I'll give you some some cute
Speaker 1: clothes Andy, and so she gets an off screen makeover,
Speaker 1: but a makeover none the last we middle part nowhere
Speaker 1: to be, It's gone, all of that. I love that,
Speaker 1: Like there's a little this movie is just old enough
Speaker 1: that you need to listen to the music cue to
Speaker 1: figure out if it's a cute outfit or not, because
Speaker 1: it's not a cute outfit. Now, like the outfit Andy
Speaker 1: walks into the office with it's like this weird like
Speaker 1: gossip Girl private school jacket. You're like, what is this?
Speaker 1: But the music is like no, no, no, no no no.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I guess this is good. I
Speaker 1: still don't know anything about fashion, which according to this movie,
Speaker 1: I should just fucking go and live in a hole.
Speaker 1: But I still can't tell if outfits are good or not.
Speaker 1: So I don't know anyway. So um, So she shows
Speaker 1: up to work. She's looking all sleek and high fashion.
Speaker 1: Emily's like, oh my god, like even Miranda is impressed.
Speaker 1: And then Andy is like given her friend's present, she's
Speaker 1: talking about fashion stuff they're like, wow, you drink the
Speaker 1: kool aid and chriss And then after she gives them
Speaker 1: these they means her friends are like they don't they
Speaker 1: don't get it. So those scenes, Yeah, I'm excited to
Speaker 1: talk about those scenes because her friends because she is
Speaker 1: being weird and I don't have Has that ever happened
Speaker 1: to either of you? Where like you get a new
Speaker 1: job or you get really into something and then your
Speaker 1: friends are kind of like, oh yeah, like James really
Speaker 1: into this fucking weird ship right now, like when I
Speaker 1: do me every day with Paddington, But like, has it
Speaker 1: ever caused it? Actual? Like, I don't know, I've worked
Speaker 1: for real tension freaky Okay, I've had experiences like that before.
Speaker 1: I already apologize for Actually I actually have a bone
Speaker 1: to pick with you. No, I just like my my
Speaker 1: cousins didn't like when I was going through a phase
Speaker 1: in my career where I was when I was butt
Speaker 1: chugging on on Camra. So that was are they concerned
Speaker 1: about your health? No? That's if they had been concerned
Speaker 1: about my health, I would have been like, oh it's
Speaker 1: I am too, But they weren't. They were just like,
Speaker 1: not a good look. What if you want to run
Speaker 1: for office? And I was like, screw you, guys. Rand's
Speaker 1: calling left the table anyways, relatable soon and then Andy
Speaker 1: goes to an event and she meets Christian Thompson. Colored
Speaker 1: Hair writer whose work she admires, is played by Simon
Speaker 1: Baker Flush colored Hair, a blond adult male. She starts
Speaker 1: to get the hang of the job. She finally does
Speaker 1: something well enough. I think it's like a hair Potter
Speaker 1: based plot point that gets her for Miranda to trust
Speaker 1: her to deliver the book. She considers quitting for a
Speaker 1: brief moment, but then like Christian Thompson saves the day
Speaker 1: with the Harry Potter book and causing a rift with entourage,
Speaker 1: so their their relationship is tense um and then lately
Speaker 1: Emily has been making a lot of mistakes at work,
Speaker 1: so Miranda is like, hey, Andy, I want you to
Speaker 1: go to Paris with me instead of Emily. And then
Speaker 1: like Andy has to tell Emily this, it's like this
Speaker 1: whole thing. She gets hit by a taxi. She and
Speaker 1: Nate break up, and then she goes to Paris and
Speaker 1: kisses a fucking creep. We'll talk about him in a moment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's like you want to get published in The New
Speaker 1: Yorker gives. My favorite part is when they're in Paris
Speaker 1: walking around together and Andy says like, I never understood
Speaker 1: what it was about Paris, but it's so beautiful and
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah was the scene? Yeah? Um. And then
Speaker 1: Andy learns that they're going to replace Miranda as editor
Speaker 1: in chief with a younger woman named Jacqueline, and she
Speaker 1: goes to tell Miranda about it, and she's like, it's
Speaker 1: fine and don't worry. And then it turns out Miranda
Speaker 1: to save her job, she sells out Nigel, who thought
Speaker 1: he was going to be made partner of this new
Speaker 1: fashion company, but instead, like Miranda shoves Jacqueline into that
Speaker 1: position so that she can keep her job. And then
Speaker 1: and he's like, well you did to Nigel. I could
Speaker 1: never do something like that, and Miranda's like like, honey,
Speaker 1: you already did, and she's like, you're right, I suck.
Speaker 1: And then she she walks away, she quits her job.
Speaker 1: She throws her phone, and then she throws her like
Speaker 1: sidekick into a fountain, like yes, two thousand sicks. And
Speaker 1: then she gets a job. I don't exactly know what
Speaker 1: magazine it's meant to be the newspaper, and then she
Speaker 1: tries to get back together with her. It doesn't happen
Speaker 1: because he's like, maybe we'll work something, maybe we'll figure
Speaker 1: something out, and she's like, yeah, maybe we will, and
Speaker 1: then that's the end. He's moving to Boston. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: then he's just said, like the way he phrases it
Speaker 1: as wild because it's like she's apologizing to him and
Speaker 1: she owes him an apology and he's like, yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 1: I got a job in Boston. And she was like,
Speaker 1: oh wow. And he's like, so, I guess we're moving there.
Speaker 1: And it's like there should be a discussion, right because
Speaker 1: he's like, there's cheese in Boston and bread, so I
Speaker 1: can still make you bread cheese sandwiches. It would, but
Speaker 1: then she gets it's unclear who knows. But anyway, that's
Speaker 1: pretty much the end of the movie. Let's take a
Speaker 1: quick break and don't come right back to discuss, and
Speaker 1: we're back. I guess what. There's been three sequels written
Speaker 1: to the Devil wors product, which, between Amy and myself
Speaker 1: we agree was not a well written book. First Place
Speaker 1: was mainly a hit because it's a hit piece on
Speaker 1: Anna Wintour, but Laura Wisberger, she's still grinding him out
Speaker 1: in the there's the Devil Wares product, there is Last
Speaker 1: Night at Chateau Marmont, There's Revenge Wars product, and most recently,
Speaker 1: there is When Life Gives You Lulu lemon okay, just
Speaker 1: published last year. You know, I love a good six copy.
Speaker 1: I love a good play on words, So I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: I respect the working writer. So I love I love
Speaker 1: a working writer. I don't love a book called When
Speaker 1: Life Gives You Lu? But do you make Lulu Lemonade?
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess we have to buy and find out.
Speaker 1: So where should we start? Oh, there's so there's so
Speaker 1: much to talk about and a lot of shades of
Speaker 1: gray in terms of how everything is is dealt with.
Speaker 1: I don't know where. Where did you let me point out?
Speaker 1: In the very opening shots of the movie, like over
Speaker 1: the credits, we are seeing disembodied female body parts putting
Speaker 1: on bras, putting on underwear, stockings, and then it becomes
Speaker 1: a like one of these girls is not like the
Speaker 1: other montage where it's like all these conventionally beautiful women
Speaker 1: putting on all their like fancy laundre and their makeup
Speaker 1: and their like skirts and high heels, and we contrast
Speaker 1: that with Anne Hathaway's character, who is dressed in a
Speaker 1: way that's you know, perhaps not quite as hyper feminine
Speaker 1: as these other shots were seeing ar say, she's not
Speaker 1: like the other girl. That's exactly what the movie is saying.
Speaker 1: And it's like the other women are like counting out
Speaker 1: seven almonds for breakfast, and then she's eating like a
Speaker 1: bagel and cream cheese. The others are taking like taxis
Speaker 1: or town cars. She takes the subway. So it's like
Speaker 1: very much like a it's like setting up a working
Speaker 1: girl kind of character for her. I think it's still
Speaker 1: like this. This movie comes out five years after The
Speaker 1: Princess Diaries, and Anne Hathaway is still We're still suspending
Speaker 1: our disbelief to be like what an ugo like Jesus correct,
Speaker 1: Why why is this where Anne Hathaway is type cast?
Speaker 1: There are moments pre Andy getting rid of her middle
Speaker 1: part uh and wearing less layers that it seems like
Speaker 1: it's referencing the Princess Diaries in in terms of like
Speaker 1: how people treat her and all this. It's just I'm
Speaker 1: just like man, I'm tired of having to pretend Anne
Speaker 1: Hathaway is ugly. I don't have any more belief to
Speaker 1: suspend right. And it's when she starts to change her
Speaker 1: look that that coincide story wise with her getting better
Speaker 1: at her job. And when whenever she goes to Nigel
Speaker 1: to be like, what can I do to be taken
Speaker 1: more seriously here? Her idea is to dress better, which
Speaker 1: makes sense it is a fashion magazine, but like, that's
Speaker 1: it seems like that's the only idea she It's not like,
Speaker 1: how else can I be better at the administrative aspects
Speaker 1: of my job? Like? And she we do see her
Speaker 1: improve in those ways, but her main idea to like
Speaker 1: be better at her job is to look better. But
Speaker 1: I think I wonder if that's like a game she
Speaker 1: has to play to earn the respect of Miranda so
Speaker 1: that Miranda doesn't treat her like ship as much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I think when Miranda does see that she puts
Speaker 1: effort into dressing better, then she gives her a little
Speaker 1: bit more respect and actually starts calling her by her name.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that's really telling when she does
Speaker 1: decide to and it was, and it wasn't after she
Speaker 1: did like heroic things job wise, but it is because
Speaker 1: she noticed that she dressed right, Like she's not doing
Speaker 1: necessarily a better job, she just looks different doing it, Yes,
Speaker 1: and that's what garners the respect. And then real quick
Speaker 1: back to the opening sequence, where like I was thinking,
Speaker 1: those women you were seeing who were like putting on
Speaker 1: all like the high fashion items would be the other
Speaker 1: women women who were interviewing for that job, and that
Speaker 1: might be what's implied. But we don't see those women again,
Speaker 1: so they're basically just on screen so that we can
Speaker 1: one see they're like disembodied female body parts and to
Speaker 1: demonstrate how Andy is not like the other girls. So
Speaker 1: like that's the only function. I kind of disagree with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of I mean, the first
Speaker 1: like ten minutes of this movie are so tight in
Speaker 1: terms of like you get everything you need to know.
Speaker 1: I thought that that was also just conveying a theme
Speaker 1: of like presenting you with the Runway woman type of
Speaker 1: like here's an example of a woman who uses this
Speaker 1: magazine as her bible. It's like, I think on one
Speaker 1: side of the screen, we're seeing people who presumably subscribe
Speaker 1: to Runway or at least the ideas that Runway is selling.
Speaker 1: And uh so I think that there's enough function. And I'm,
Speaker 1: you know, always for calling out when like women's bodies
Speaker 1: are being used in like weird crops and like sexualized crops.
Speaker 1: But I didn't. I didn't think that that was what
Speaker 1: that sequence was trying to do. It didn't seem like
Speaker 1: they were trying to sexualize it. It is kind of
Speaker 1: like an oversimplification of like some women be like this,
Speaker 1: other women be like this, But at least to me,
Speaker 1: tied into like the theme. Sure it was effective and
Speaker 1: demonstrating that type of women and stuff like that. And
Speaker 1: the strange thing was that, like, I think there are
Speaker 1: at least two or three different women of color and
Speaker 1: that opening montage and then Lily you know what I
Speaker 1: mean for the rest of the movie. So they were like,
Speaker 1: I think they are used as props in this way
Speaker 1: to to to franciate Andy from like the other types
Speaker 1: of women, like you're saying, like the runaway ish women.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting that they casted women who very much
Speaker 1: didn't look like her in terms of women of color,
Speaker 1: but then didn't like plant more women of color throughout
Speaker 1: the world of Runway or just New York City or
Speaker 1: like people she interacted with. This is one of those
Speaker 1: movies that takes place in a New York City where
Speaker 1: only white people live and work. And I bet when
Speaker 1: they cast it, um, the Lily character, they were like,
Speaker 1: we needed, we need a person of color in this
Speaker 1: that's what. Yeah. It really just feel like they just
Speaker 1: slotted her in. And because I was like trying to
Speaker 1: think about like the representation of people of color in
Speaker 1: this movie, and I was like, wow, looks when I'm
Speaker 1: calling just like the opening moments, which is very really interesting,
Speaker 1: but that like they don't speak, they're just like they're
Speaker 1: to be looked at. Um. So that was like a
Speaker 1: thing where I was thinking, like what are they trying
Speaker 1: to do here? And I don't really have an answer.
Speaker 1: I was just like pontificating on it. Yeah, I know
Speaker 1: that's important to note, and especially with like Lily's character,
Speaker 1: where she is so shoehorned into the storyline because we
Speaker 1: don't know anything about her Caitlin, like we're saying we
Speaker 1: don't know her name, and very late in the movie
Speaker 1: and she's I thought, even like even worse than a
Speaker 1: classic like best friend in a movie role we're at
Speaker 1: least most best friend in the movie roles, you know
Speaker 1: at least something about them, you know, like where they work,
Speaker 1: how do they know each other, how long have they
Speaker 1: known each other? How do they feel about literally anything
Speaker 1: other than what's opening to the protagonist. But like Lily
Speaker 1: is there to provide exposition and like besides her boyfriend,
Speaker 1: whose nate is that rate, but to like provide some
Speaker 1: sort of like you've changed. Like that's the only reason
Speaker 1: we do know job vaguely, which is that she is
Speaker 1: an artist who has a gallery show New York. To
Speaker 1: those two women in the job have the only two
Speaker 1: jobs that women are allowed to have in movies, especially
Speaker 1: when you live in New York City, which is you
Speaker 1: work at a gallery or you work at a magazine.
Speaker 1: So I mean there's like a lot of boring stuff
Speaker 1: to explore in that friendship. And I think they've known
Speaker 1: each other, she said, like I'm known for sixteen years,
Speaker 1: so we know that they must have known each other
Speaker 1: as like high school student or like or something. But
Speaker 1: it's so funny that you guys are bring them that,
Speaker 1: like there's only two types of jobs that you can
Speaker 1: have there because even her jobs served as a plot
Speaker 1: point because it didn't make sense when they go to
Speaker 1: that gallery opening and Lily's like, hey, I designed this
Speaker 1: to like you to go to the back and start
Speaker 1: from the back and go to the front, which makes
Speaker 1: zero sense in terms of like design of experiencing a
Speaker 1: gallery show, like who goes to the back to work
Speaker 1: them to the front. But it's a plot thing because
Speaker 1: it makes Andy go to the back and then Christian
Speaker 1: meets her there and then they're like they're having their
Speaker 1: secret rendezvous and then like he kisses her and it's
Speaker 1: supposed to look like sneaky um. But she could not
Speaker 1: have said that made made her gallery show look ridiculous.
Speaker 1: It could have been like they have a look around
Speaker 1: and then like and he could have just been in
Speaker 1: the back, right, But like, even when they're giving Lily
Speaker 1: an interesting job, they made her look like a dummy
Speaker 1: just so that like we could usher ushered them and
Speaker 1: block them into the back of the gallery. Have no sense.
Speaker 1: Rude the Lily character. I mean, the movie fails her
Speaker 1: in every way. It's such a I just love crazy
Speaker 1: Tom so much. She's great. Well, we can talk about
Speaker 1: the fact that this movie is one of the guiltiest
Speaker 1: examples of a movie that like portrays the trope of
Speaker 1: a career woman who is successful and in a leadership
Speaker 1: role in in her professional life. She is a fucking bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like a lot of like second I feel like
Speaker 1: we've been coming up against all these like very strong
Speaker 1: second wave feminism, like cautionary tales. Recently when I was
Speaker 1: doing some background and and and I I will say
Speaker 1: I think Miranda's character is presented in the movie. I
Speaker 1: don't think in the book, but presented in the movie
Speaker 1: with more nuance and backstory than you get for most
Speaker 1: of these characters who, like prior to this movie are
Speaker 1: used strictly as like if you don't settle down, this
Speaker 1: will be you. And you're just like I mean, if
Speaker 1: you think about like Glenn Close and Fatal Attraction is
Speaker 1: like this successful career woman and her lack of like
Speaker 1: a heteronormative perfect life drives her insane into murder. And
Speaker 1: there's another movie that I don't know why, I saw
Speaker 1: it a bunch of times when I was younger, but
Speaker 1: a movie called Working Girl. In Sigournie Weaver is the
Speaker 1: mean lady boss and that um and she steals an
Speaker 1: idea from her secretary who's Melanie Griffith. It's a similar
Speaker 1: stock character whose background goes completely unexplored. I think this,
Speaker 1: I don't know, the Miranda conversations tricky, but this movie
Speaker 1: attempts to address some of those trumps, but it doesn't.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it doesn't effectively comment on our subvert
Speaker 1: quite enough for me, But I do think it's interesting that,
Speaker 1: you know, if you look at especially like the Glenn
Speaker 1: Close character, usually a woman with ambition has to shoulder
Speaker 1: some horrible consequence of that ambition. And that's like one
Speaker 1: choice with the Miranda character that I thought was like
Speaker 1: cool and interesting is that Miranda is horrible. She fucks
Speaker 1: Stanley Tucci over, she doesn't apologize for it, and she
Speaker 1: suffers no consequences, which is, you know, a very corporate
Speaker 1: feminism take on that. But you didn't usually see that
Speaker 1: with like an ambitious woman. She's usually punished by the story.
Speaker 1: That's true, and we do see the line where Andy
Speaker 1: is talking about Miranda and says something like, yeah, she's tough.
Speaker 1: But if Miranda were a man, no one would notice
Speaker 1: anything about her except how great she is at her job.
Speaker 1: So that is like one of the few attempts the
Speaker 1: movie makes a being like see, we get it feminism, right,
Speaker 1: which is something. Yeah, I agree that, Like it's it's
Speaker 1: hard to like place Miranda in a way. Like like
Speaker 1: we said earlier, I was just like maybe I'm just
Speaker 1: like a forever gasolate person. But like I was just like,
Speaker 1: Miranda is just really good at her job, you know,
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, she has like her really bitchy moments,
Speaker 1: and but but even her bitchy moments are like so beautiful,
Speaker 1: like that you know that montage of her like slamming
Speaker 1: her purse and her coat on the on the desk,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I will just watch that montage sometimes I
Speaker 1: will just google it and like look up and not
Speaker 1: just watching because I'm like, yes, like I look at
Speaker 1: the outfit she's wearing. I look at what Andy is wearing,
Speaker 1: and look at the reactions, and look at what she's
Speaker 1: I want to hear again what she's asking for. She's
Speaker 1: just asking for a vague ship, Like where's that piece
Speaker 1: of paper I had in my hand? I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: where is that? But like I think that for somebody
Speaker 1: of her caliber and like the job that she does,
Speaker 1: sometimes like you just have so much ship going on,
Speaker 1: you just can't keep track of everything, but like because
Speaker 1: it's being delivered through a woman and not a man,
Speaker 1: Like I think we have like feelings about that because
Speaker 1: we expect women to act a specific way. So I
Speaker 1: do feel like, yeah, like she's not a very kind
Speaker 1: boss a lot of the times, she can't be really
Speaker 1: hard to work for, but she's the devil's always, just
Speaker 1: in case you forgot, I am the devil. But I
Speaker 1: wonder if like this is just on the spectrum of
Speaker 1: women who work and this is how they behave, Like
Speaker 1: maybe she's on the far end of like a really
Speaker 1: not great boss, but it's just like one of the
Speaker 1: portrayals of women who work and like, you know, and
Speaker 1: if we think that like women bosses who aren't like
Speaker 1: that are just bitchy and awful, then like that will
Speaker 1: always just be a trope. But I just kind of
Speaker 1: lay her on that spectrum because like there are moments
Speaker 1: where I think, I think it's a maryle thing that
Speaker 1: gave her this nuance where you know, like when she
Speaker 1: answered her phone her daughter called, She's like, oh hey, Bubsy,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, she's a mom, you know,
Speaker 1: or like even when she sucked selling teacher over for
Speaker 1: that job. I was like, she's saving herself because like
Speaker 1: the industry is agist or like the industry doesn't want
Speaker 1: to pay her what she's worth, right, So I'm sorry Stanley.
Speaker 1: But like, also Stanley is a man, Like he doesn't
Speaker 1: have to work for her if he doesn't want to write, Like,
Speaker 1: if he wanted to go off on his own, I'm
Speaker 1: sure he could ask permission be like yeah, you kind
Speaker 1: of me ever kind of leave She's I think she's
Speaker 1: reasonable enough to be like yes, which to some extent
Speaker 1: Stanley knows because when it happens, he just sits there
Speaker 1: and it's like my time, look, and it's it's a
Speaker 1: sad moment. It's a difficult moment for that character. But
Speaker 1: you're totally right, Yeah, it's like she is saving her
Speaker 1: ass because no one else is going to, like, no
Speaker 1: one is going to come to bat for an older
Speaker 1: woman trying to survive in a very high pressure environment,
Speaker 1: which I think you know, you see proven over and
Speaker 1: over right, and one of the things that doesn't get
Speaker 1: talked about enough where we see the trope of professional
Speaker 1: women in high status jobs being portrayed as being these difficult,
Speaker 1: heinous women. But what gets ignored is that if they
Speaker 1: are perhaps acting that way sometimes it probably has something
Speaker 1: to do with the fact that women in order to
Speaker 1: be taken seriously in the professional sphere and to climb
Speaker 1: the ladder, they have to work harder than they're like
Speaker 1: male counterpart. They might have to be kind of more
Speaker 1: ruthless and just like any number of things to be
Speaker 1: taken seriously, because, yeah, the industries are exists, they are agist,
Speaker 1: and for her to behave this way is probably a
Speaker 1: direct response to the way that women are treated in
Speaker 1: every aspect of their life. Right. It's another thing that
Speaker 1: this movie avoided for me. It's a it's not a
Speaker 1: trope that really existed as much in two thousand six.
Speaker 1: I think it's like a slowly emerging one. Uh that
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm going to articulate it right,
Speaker 1: but um, this sort of avoids the Miranda character, avoids
Speaker 1: the tropes of like a girl boss character where the
Speaker 1: girl boss trope is something that drives me nuts, whether
Speaker 1: it's like someone performed being a performative business person or
Speaker 1: in in a in a piece of narrative fiction where
Speaker 1: it's like a woman who is a capitalist at her core.
Speaker 1: Even if you know she's she's good at her job.
Speaker 1: She's a business owner, she's a capitalist, but then posits
Speaker 1: it as like, but I'm like one of you. It's
Speaker 1: like Cheryl Sandberg is like peak girl Boss, where it's
Speaker 1: like someone who's doing a bad thing but is treated
Speaker 1: like oh no, but she's actually like yes, queen, you know,
Speaker 1: and and and she she uses like the veil of
Speaker 1: feminism to feel like me being empowered empowers you. And
Speaker 1: I don't think Miranda does that. Miranda's just a person
Speaker 1: working a job. And she has like self awareness because
Speaker 1: because like there's that scene where like her and Mr
Speaker 1: Priestley are going to divorce and she's like doesn't have
Speaker 1: any makeup on. And I think that the credit to
Speaker 1: how nuanced Miranda's is to mistreat. But you know, she's
Speaker 1: like she's her face is bare, and she's just like, oh,
Speaker 1: the tabloids are gonna eat this up. Like they should
Speaker 1: pay me because they write so many pieces about me.
Speaker 1: She's like there's so much self awareness there. She knows
Speaker 1: what she's projecting, but fuck it because she needs to
Speaker 1: make this excellent publication and like and she knows what
Speaker 1: she's doing. Yeah, she's like and she's not like a
Speaker 1: faker the way that a lot of people present themselves
Speaker 1: in similar roles, which takes a certain out of like
Speaker 1: conviction and courage to be like, no, I'm selling ship.
Speaker 1: I know how to do it better than anyone, so
Speaker 1: pay me for doing that, and not like you're saying,
Speaker 1: like covering it with a veil of like no, I'm
Speaker 1: for all women. It's like, no, Miranda is here to
Speaker 1: do a job. She's here to do a job, and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of forces that are going to make
Speaker 1: it more difficult for her to do that job. But
Speaker 1: like I think, I wonder then if like, because you know, feminism,
Speaker 1: corporate ties feminism or marketplace feminism is so trending now,
Speaker 1: so I think that's why Girl Boss tropes are like flourishing.
Speaker 1: But if it was as trendy then because like feminism
Speaker 1: was still very much like a four letter word, you know,
Speaker 1: like just even ten years ago, which is so wild
Speaker 1: to think about. But if it wasn't, I wonder what
Speaker 1: would have happened to the Miranda character. I know, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's just like what if I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess how do people view in the wintour right now,
Speaker 1: because it does seem like most women there's I would
Speaker 1: imagine some pressure right now for been working in high
Speaker 1: levels of business to put on that mask. And that's
Speaker 1: not to say that it's not at least sincerely held
Speaker 1: in part, but it's just I don't know, corporate feminism
Speaker 1: frees me the funk out of like we think you're
Speaker 1: beautiful by this soap. Also we're waging war and me
Speaker 1: and mar sorry like that, Cheryl Samberg, Cheryld Samberg. She's
Speaker 1: the scariest personal life. But I I wonder if if
Speaker 1: if this movie came out today, if that would be
Speaker 1: sort of addressed. But there's not. I mean, it's weird
Speaker 1: any any manner of Like outright feminist statements are strictly
Speaker 1: made by Andy and are usually shot down. Right, We've
Speaker 1: got to take another quick break, but we'll be right
Speaker 1: back after that. Amy, going back to the scene that
Speaker 1: you were talking about really briefly, where Miranda is talking
Speaker 1: about her like impending divorce. So that's an example that
Speaker 1: we see in a movie where it's a character who
Speaker 1: is a professional, successful woman but her personal life is
Speaker 1: in shambles basically, which is perhaps sometimes a realistic portrayal,
Speaker 1: especially when it's you know, the man, the husband who
Speaker 1: resents the fact that his what, his wife is successful
Speaker 1: and you know, feels threatened by that or emasculated by
Speaker 1: that or whatever, because it's a really subtle moment in
Speaker 1: the movie. But whenever Andy is delivering the book to
Speaker 1: Miranda's house for the first time and like was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a good idea to go upstairs and she overhears
Speaker 1: a conversation where Miranda's husband is saying something like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, people are looking at me in the restaurant
Speaker 1: thinking he's waiting for her yet again, which shows that
Speaker 1: he is threatened by the fact that what people think
Speaker 1: of him. Yeah, So on one hand, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you see this what maybe a realistic portrayal of like
Speaker 1: a man being threatened by his wife's success, his wife's success.
Speaker 1: But then you also have to see a woman who
Speaker 1: is successful in her profession have her personal life be
Speaker 1: compromised basically, so it I don't really quite know how
Speaker 1: to feel about it. For the most part, it worked
Speaker 1: for me for the most part, I mean partially because
Speaker 1: this movie has the benefit of getting to be like, well,
Speaker 1: it's technically based on Anna Wintour, and a lot of
Speaker 1: that personal life stuff is adapted from Anna Wintour's life
Speaker 1: with two field marriages, two kids, trying to balance mother
Speaker 1: and and the reason I liked seeing I mean just
Speaker 1: learning anything about a character like Miranda's personal life in
Speaker 1: a way that doesn't make her comple lately tragic in
Speaker 1: a way that might have been easy, the easy choice
Speaker 1: of like, well, she's so good at her job, but look,
Speaker 1: her personal life is difficult, and instead of leaving it
Speaker 1: that we go back to her job and watch her
Speaker 1: be really fucking good at her job and ruthless in
Speaker 1: her job. Again, so there's like some nuance presented. I
Speaker 1: don't know it. There is a weird, like halfway nous
Speaker 1: of implying that, like, while her personal life is suffering
Speaker 1: in this very specific way. But then I'm like, I
Speaker 1: guess if you had shown like, and she's actually an
Speaker 1: incredible mother and no one credit like that would have
Speaker 1: felt very hollow and disingenuous as well, Because, of course,
Speaker 1: and this is kind of implied about her a number
Speaker 1: of times, there is still this expectation of Miranda to
Speaker 1: like be a mother that is not usually put on
Speaker 1: male professionals at that level. They're like, oh, well, isn't
Speaker 1: there a nanny. Isn't there a mom that's taking care
Speaker 1: of the kids, But she's still expected to have the
Speaker 1: same level of you know, affection and and and doting
Speaker 1: nous that a stereotypical mother did, which they which is again,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff that feels halfway addressed. I
Speaker 1: think for the thing about their marriage ending, in a
Speaker 1: way I kind of not appreciated it, but like I
Speaker 1: think it spoke to this notion that like, oh we
Speaker 1: can have it all, like you know, like was that
Speaker 1: second wave of feminism which whichever waiver that we think
Speaker 1: that like women were being told like you can't go
Speaker 1: to work and you can have a family, etcetera, etcetera,
Speaker 1: And and like I think that like our generation and
Speaker 1: women is like, no, you guys are you guys are
Speaker 1: fucking tired, You fucking are miserable. You you divorce your
Speaker 1: partners because it's really hard to do this. And some
Speaker 1: of us are childless or some of us like have
Speaker 1: kids and don't work because it's that's why people have wives.
Speaker 1: That's why men have wives that they can have a job.
Speaker 1: I often think that my partner, I'm like I wish
Speaker 1: I had a fucking wife, so like that all this
Speaker 1: ship just just even like something I like, I'll give
Speaker 1: him like you know, burba feet. I'm like, I wish
Speaker 1: I had a wife to my feet because he didn't
Speaker 1: do it good. I I have it all either, But
Speaker 1: I'm saying like in that moment made me think, like, yes,
Speaker 1: like she's really good her job and it can be
Speaker 1: in the sacrifice of her personal life, but she chose it.
Speaker 1: I think that's what in the end, like feminism is about,
Speaker 1: like whatever you choose. And in that scene, she's not
Speaker 1: that sad that the marriage ended. Like if you hear
Speaker 1: what she says, she said at how it's going to
Speaker 1: affect her kids. Yeah, yeah, she says, I don't care
Speaker 1: what anybody writes about me, but my girls. It's so
Speaker 1: unfair to my girls, right, So, And I think that
Speaker 1: was like you know, the script's way and Miranda's way
Speaker 1: of saying, like the job is way more important to
Speaker 1: her than her marriage, but her kids are maybe like
Speaker 1: the number one. And I think that was important to
Speaker 1: point out and and I think it's it was necessary
Speaker 1: so that we're not thinking like a Miranda type of
Speaker 1: person can be who she is and then also have
Speaker 1: like a really great support system because it's maybe not
Speaker 1: completely realistic. And I appreciated that. I liked I I
Speaker 1: liked it, and it's like there the trophiness that I
Speaker 1: loved about, Like the only scene where Miranda is not
Speaker 1: wearing make up and you're just like, Jane Fonda does
Speaker 1: it all the time, and Grays and Frankie, I love it.
Speaker 1: Jane Fonda does this thing and Grace has anyone see
Speaker 1: yes okay? In the first episode of Grace and Frankie
Speaker 1: where Jane Fonda apparently had some sort of wire around
Speaker 1: her head to hold her skin, yes, her head and
Speaker 1: falls off. In the pilot episode, I saw a beauty
Speaker 1: regimen of a caliber even I wasn't familiar of that.
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I love Grace and Frankie. Jane
Speaker 1: Fonda has a wire around her head like to pull
Speaker 1: to pull back, but it was a wire attached to
Speaker 1: her wig. She also Jane Fonda is a legend. I mean,
Speaker 1: but even like when Merrit streets bare face, they do
Speaker 1: these clothes up on her face and I'm like, girl,
Speaker 1: who is your doctor because good job? Or what is
Speaker 1: the wire wearing? Because where yes, because like her skin
Speaker 1: is looking good and like it's very good skin. I
Speaker 1: have a high deff helemet. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: guys have one. I do, like like I was thinking
Speaker 1: like like she either has a really good doctor or
Speaker 1: like some kind of like wire thing, but like she
Speaker 1: looks magnificent in it. She can't go bare face. But
Speaker 1: like for us as viewers like, oh my god, so
Speaker 1: brave that like a woman with gray hair and went
Speaker 1: bare face. You know, I'm we're conditioned to think that way,
Speaker 1: and we're conditioned to think, wow, she looks so good
Speaker 1: pause for her age, and it's like, no, like she
Speaker 1: looks good. Yeah, that's a way of like the society
Speaker 1: feels that way too. I think the movie like wants
Speaker 1: you to be like I don't know, some mix of
Speaker 1: like either like wow, she looks different or like wow
Speaker 1: she looks good like for her age. I don't know
Speaker 1: that the movie is necessarily like this should be normalized
Speaker 1: like that. I don't think that that's intention vibe um,
Speaker 1: but we all we all like I'm having to undo
Speaker 1: a lot of conditioning where I like, we'll catch myself thinking,
Speaker 1: oh wow, she looks really good for her age. But
Speaker 1: it's like, no, that's a horrible way to think, because
Speaker 1: like we are conditioned to think that with women age,
Speaker 1: they you know, they lose their value. And you know,
Speaker 1: we have this standard of beauty that says that only
Speaker 1: young women can be considered attractive, and like, I'm not
Speaker 1: having to undo a lot of this thinking. Still, shall
Speaker 1: we talk about Andy? Yes, let's talk about Andy. Andy
Speaker 1: is an interesting and interesting character. I right at the
Speaker 1: top we briefly talked about her interview. But I've just
Speaker 1: never seen anyone succeed with such a flippant attitude towards
Speaker 1: the very powerful job they're applying to. But you know,
Speaker 1: she does um, but she does. There is there is
Speaker 1: like another a narrative for her too, that is like
Speaker 1: trying to have it all and personal life suffers as
Speaker 1: a result. That happens as well, and it's weird. It's
Speaker 1: like the resolution to that is a little confusing to me,
Speaker 1: where it's like she's trying to have it all, but
Speaker 1: then her friends and her boyfriend are like you've changed,
Speaker 1: which she has, uh, And then she decides, fucking I'm
Speaker 1: throwing my sidekick into the fountain, And then I don't know,
Speaker 1: I mean The ending is kind of ambiguous for her
Speaker 1: of like is she in a relationship? Does that what
Speaker 1: she wants? Like we don't. We still don't really know,
Speaker 1: But it didn't bother me too much. I think when
Speaker 1: the film came out, you know, like ten years ago
Speaker 1: or whatever, I think we wanted to think that like
Speaker 1: they were still together and that those things were important.
Speaker 1: But I think that there are like new memes now
Speaker 1: when people talk about the movie where they're like, can
Speaker 1: we talk about how trash her boyfriend and friends were?
Speaker 1: Like they were not good, Like they're not a good
Speaker 1: support system, you know, Like who moves to New York
Speaker 1: City and thinks that they're going to get like some
Speaker 1: amazing job right off the bat. Nobody does, you know,
Speaker 1: So like this notion that like she moved to New
Speaker 1: York City, she's struggling on a job, like and all
Speaker 1: you guys do put fun at her ship on her, yes,
Speaker 1: and almost like risk her losing her job at one
Speaker 1: point when they like throw her phone around when yeah,
Speaker 1: I was on Andy's side and being horrible. There's also
Speaker 1: a moment early on where her friend Doug says something
Speaker 1: like Miranda Priestley is famous for being unpredictable, and and
Speaker 1: he's like, how do you know who she is? And
Speaker 1: I don't, And then Doug says, I'm actually a girl.
Speaker 1: And then Lily says that would explain a lot. I, Darling,
Speaker 1: no what you meant by that? So I guess it's implying, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like only a woman would know who a fashion icon is.
Speaker 1: That's reductive. And then for Lily to say like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that would explain a lot that you're a girl, Like
Speaker 1: that sounds weird, some sort of weird gender phobic thing.
Speaker 1: Two six we a lot of weird exchanges. Uh. Super
Speaker 1: producer Sophie just also made the note that we do
Speaker 1: we do you learn a little bit about Andy's family
Speaker 1: life and and her when she goes to dinner with
Speaker 1: her dad, there's a very similar vibe of like why
Speaker 1: aren't you working? And I'm like, she's twenty two, what
Speaker 1: are you talk And we only know her dad, never
Speaker 1: meet her mom gets mentioned, but yeah, we don't know
Speaker 1: anything about her mom. At least she's not a Disney princess.
Speaker 1: The mother's alive, but just never just not allowed to be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the only thing I was one of the biggest things
Speaker 1: I remember that about that scene is when he gives
Speaker 1: her a check and she's just like, oh, you shouldn't
Speaker 1: have but yes, but but also like it was no
Speaker 1: big deal. And I was like, oh, that's so what
Speaker 1: a life. I know. I have never, I have really
Speaker 1: never because that that has been a check for like
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. Yeah, what I mean what was that?
Speaker 1: It was to help with her rent I think in
Speaker 1: New York and that fucking apartment that she had apartment iguantique. Yeah. God.
Speaker 1: And when I was were I guess twenty two if
Speaker 1: she's a recent grid like yeah, I mean when I
Speaker 1: was in college, my dad used to have these jars.
Speaker 1: Uh it was for my brother, and he would put
Speaker 1: dimes in one of the jars that he just found
Speaker 1: or god has changed, and he put nickels in the
Speaker 1: third jar, and at the end of every month, he'd
Speaker 1: cash out the jars and some and and that would
Speaker 1: be like it would always be like twenty bucks. But
Speaker 1: that was like my dad's version of that. He's like,
Speaker 1: here all the times I found this month, I found
Speaker 1: two hundred dimes. And sometimes it would be a dime month,
Speaker 1: or sometimes it'd be my brother's dime month. And if
Speaker 1: it was a shitty month. You get like literally a
Speaker 1: check for five dollars. It's like it's a nickel month.
Speaker 1: Shut up, my coloftus and his many jars. There's a
Speaker 1: penny jar. But and I was like, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't my dad collected pennies in a jar too. What
Speaker 1: is it with? What is the dad dad in coin jars?
Speaker 1: My dad doesn't have a jar. Now I feel left jars.
Speaker 1: I got to bring them over. If they have jars,
Speaker 1: they will put coins in them. So my dad used
Speaker 1: to like I used to bring my laundry home to
Speaker 1: do when I was in school or after I just graduated,
Speaker 1: and then like take food, and he would like make
Speaker 1: fun of me. He'd be like, oh, like here comes
Speaker 1: my homeless daughter. So like that's my across the one
Speaker 1: I saw her dad to slip her a check like
Speaker 1: it was no big deal. I was like yeah, I
Speaker 1: was like, but but literally, I think that's how you
Speaker 1: have to survive. And then that's why, like you know,
Speaker 1: in the media world we talk about like who gets
Speaker 1: to be interns or like who gets to be like
Speaker 1: very low paid workers um to get their foot in
Speaker 1: the door so that they can then become like high
Speaker 1: paying editors and stuff. It's like people who come from
Speaker 1: a background where like they do have a support system
Speaker 1: in that way. But that was a moment I was like, well,
Speaker 1: thanks for showing that because you do feel for her
Speaker 1: a little. Yeah, it is useful to have that context.
Speaker 1: And and like seeing the check past. I wonder if
Speaker 1: that was done intentionally to be like, and this is
Speaker 1: the only way that I don't know, it's not clear.
Speaker 1: It seems like she's pretty low paid at Runway. I
Speaker 1: mean those assistant jobs always are. Yeah, so the see
Speaker 1: seeing the check past. I wish we were addressed a
Speaker 1: little more because it is useful to have that context
Speaker 1: of like, she's miserable and she's still very privileged to
Speaker 1: have this safety net to fall into, or or to
Speaker 1: even imply that she has a plan B outside of
Speaker 1: this low paid nightmare job that she has is something
Speaker 1: I don't know, because the film doesn't do enough of
Speaker 1: a job of telling us like, oh, she needs this
Speaker 1: job for money. It tells us repeatedly she needs his
Speaker 1: job so she can move up. That's her meal ticket
Speaker 1: into whatever job in publishing she wants. Yes, I think
Speaker 1: that's another reason why that check scene stood I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I forgot that. Maybe she can't make rent. You know, right,
Speaker 1: it would be interesting to see more of a dive
Speaker 1: into that side of things. But I mean in two
Speaker 1: thousands six, no one was talking about that. I feel
Speaker 1: like that was like approaching like late two thousand's early
Speaker 1: two thousand tents was like peak unpaid internship. Shut up
Speaker 1: and take it and if you can't afford to do it,
Speaker 1: fuck you, find another job. I think what was confusing
Speaker 1: is that, like the film was trying to make us
Speaker 1: or maybe it's trying to make us feel away about
Speaker 1: the industry, like not just media or publication, but the
Speaker 1: fashion industry, but then glamorizing it so much because because
Speaker 1: we're supposed to understand that Andy thinks it's frivolous and
Speaker 1: just stuff. Um, and then and then she starts to
Speaker 1: wear the stuff and that and the other amazing montage
Speaker 1: this movie has so many Mota game is strong, and
Speaker 1: like I said, I like YouTube from a lot different
Speaker 1: and leisure, but then it glamorizes. So that's what left
Speaker 1: me confused. It's like, so does she appreciate it at
Speaker 1: the end or does she still think it's bullshit and
Speaker 1: she's happy she's got because when she showed up to
Speaker 1: that newspaper job interview, she looks good, she had a
Speaker 1: nice so she was changed from But then she gives
Speaker 1: all of her clothes if she got in Paris to
Speaker 1: Emily is like, she just kind of like a weird
Speaker 1: what I mean, it's what she should take her out
Speaker 1: to dinner, like there, I don't know that Emily would
Speaker 1: want to hang out with her, and Emily doesn't eat.
Speaker 1: So we talk about it really quick, just sort of
Speaker 1: going off of what you just saying. A wait, what
Speaker 1: were you just saying? It's about fashion? Oh okay, So
Speaker 1: I agree that this movie very much, for all of
Speaker 1: the good things it does, does end up being like
Speaker 1: so if you think that the fashion industry is stupid
Speaker 1: and manipulative, you're stupid and like you're just you just
Speaker 1: haven't given it a fair shake, which is a very
Speaker 1: reductive basic message of like, actually fashion good. It reminds
Speaker 1: me of all the pageant movies we've been doing on
Speaker 1: this podcast recently, where it's a similar, a more muted
Speaker 1: version of what happens to Sandra Bullock and Miss Congeniality
Speaker 1: where she goes in with the middle part saying like
Speaker 1: I'm a feminist, this industry is bullshit and saying things
Speaker 1: that like I think the movie by the end is like,
Speaker 1: but it's not like that when it's like we sort
Speaker 1: of in or like yeah, there's a lot of truth
Speaker 1: to what she's saying, but Ann Hathaway's character here too, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like by the end, I don't think that we're
Speaker 1: supposed like even when she was like this is just
Speaker 1: stuff and that the Cerulean monologue is so good, but
Speaker 1: it is trying to prove that. It's like, no, this
Speaker 1: is actually good and you should be participating in it,
Speaker 1: and you can't not participate in it, so you may
Speaker 1: as well just immerse yourself in it, which is sort
Speaker 1: of like a similar message we get from Miss Congeniality
Speaker 1: about pageants of like instead of defying this industry, find
Speaker 1: a way that you're comfortable participating in it, which is
Speaker 1: like not the greatest because like at the end of
Speaker 1: that monologue, like Randa just straight up like like that
Speaker 1: color you're wearing, we literally chose that for you, Like
Speaker 1: like you're saying, like, even if you don't choose to
Speaker 1: participate in it, like you are in it because we
Speaker 1: forced it on you, so you better embrace it. And
Speaker 1: but the way the movie shapes like Andy's arc is
Speaker 1: that like girls looking good at the end, you know,
Speaker 1: so like as view are, you're like like she's glowing
Speaker 1: her skins good. Now she's a size four, you know,
Speaker 1: like how yeah, and she's a celebrating it. And but
Speaker 1: it's not telling the viewer to be like to be
Speaker 1: like oh my god, Andy, It's it's telling the viewer
Speaker 1: like yes girl, you know. So it's like it's such
Speaker 1: a confusing message. And I think Andy's ark is even
Speaker 1: way we're confusing the Miranda's ark because like from Miranda,
Speaker 1: were like, oh is she really evil devil, worst product boss?
Speaker 1: Or can she be more? And I'm work given more
Speaker 1: of like a nuance, I think because maybe Meryl Street's performance.
Speaker 1: But with Andy, it's like it's really really confusing, especially
Speaker 1: because like early on, I forget who she says it too,
Speaker 1: but she says something like, oh, just because I have
Speaker 1: this job doesn't mean I'm going to change everything about myself.
Speaker 1: And then she changes a lot of stuff about herself,
Speaker 1: including the way she presents herself, including her the way
Speaker 1: she treats other people. Yeah, it's it's she goes through
Speaker 1: this arc that I can't say I necessarily admire, and
Speaker 1: I get by the end when she, you know, does
Speaker 1: the symbolics throwing of the phone into the fountain and
Speaker 1: walking away from Miranda, it's like, Okay, she like has
Speaker 1: reordered her priorities and she is like she changed back
Speaker 1: for the better. But the movie does frame her becoming
Speaker 1: this new stylish person is like such a glamorous, wonderful
Speaker 1: thing for her that it sends mixed messages. I think,
Speaker 1: And I think like, even as like useless as Nate is,
Speaker 1: he does say one thing where I'm like, oh, funk, yes,
Speaker 1: when um he's mad at her for something, maybe when
Speaker 1: she didn't go to her birthday party, or like oh
Speaker 1: when he when she has to go to Paris, and
Speaker 1: he was like, you know what, I don't care that
Speaker 1: if you're into this stuff as long as you did
Speaker 1: it with conviction. And that's the feeling I get about Andy.
Speaker 1: It's like like I don't care she's into this stuff.
Speaker 1: I don't care she feels like she needs to lose weight,
Speaker 1: Like that's she can have her own agency and she
Speaker 1: can make those decisions. Um, and if she thinks she
Speaker 1: looks better and clothes whatever. That's like her thing like
Speaker 1: live your life, but at least like be into it
Speaker 1: and like live that, and then I would respect that
Speaker 1: more than like this weird wishy washing us, because is
Speaker 1: even when she throws the phone in the fountain, I
Speaker 1: didn't think it was like, oh, I'm taking back my
Speaker 1: life again, like I renounced this lifestyle because like Maranda
Speaker 1: just got done doing that thing like everybody wants to
Speaker 1: be us. I thought of it as like Andy being
Speaker 1: mad that Miranda just called her out on going to Paris.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because it wasn't so much like everybody wants
Speaker 1: to be us, because that is true, and you know what,
Speaker 1: Andy did want to be there and and he was
Speaker 1: that it was because like Miranda just like said, well
Speaker 1: you just did it to Emily, you know, which, which
Speaker 1: wasn't that fair for her to say because Emily, you know,
Speaker 1: got hit by a car. But yeah, that I mean,
Speaker 1: And and that is a confusing like it's a confusing
Speaker 1: message to send because it's like, you see what Miranda
Speaker 1: is saying, but then it's implied that the solution to
Speaker 1: that is just to leave that industry. And then it's fine,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it just seemed like an overly simplified,
Speaker 1: resolute shin. Andy's character is weird, and it's it's frustrating because, like,
Speaker 1: like the Sandra Bullock Miss Congeniality character, I largely agree
Speaker 1: with everything that she says at the beginning of the movie,
Speaker 1: and I agree with her more at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the movie than I do at the end. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: then what was the point of the journeying? I guess right,
Speaker 1: That's why I like, in a way, we think of
Speaker 1: this movie as like Andy's story, But like when I
Speaker 1: finished watching the movie, I'm like, I want to know
Speaker 1: more about Miranda. Yeah, I want to know, like, well,
Speaker 1: who is she dating after this? Like what are her
Speaker 1: kids grow up to be? Like who's her new assistance?
Speaker 1: Will happened to Emily? You know, like like Andy's just
Speaker 1: like this conduit by which I get to learn about Miranda.
Speaker 1: I want the best for Emily to Emily. I mean,
Speaker 1: Emily's character is kind of cartoony and how she's presented,
Speaker 1: and Emily Blunt is like so fun in this movie.
Speaker 1: It's one of her first parts ever. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: weird because I think the movie counts on you being
Speaker 1: so on Andy's side that you're supposed to be like, Oh,
Speaker 1: Emily is so uppity and me but like most of
Speaker 1: the time she's right. She can be harsh, but she
Speaker 1: is usually right where she's confused as to why Andy
Speaker 1: got the job, So was I. She's like, you don't
Speaker 1: know anything about this job you just got, like why
Speaker 1: did you apply? And that's supposed to be like mean
Speaker 1: and dismissive, but it's like, but why like and and
Speaker 1: the fact that her store her like b plot gets
Speaker 1: so out of control that she gets literally hit by
Speaker 1: a car was like, I, I don't know, it's like
Speaker 1: she I thought, like ten years later watching her, it
Speaker 1: was like there was a more grounded plot than the
Speaker 1: movie gave it credit for, because she's just supposed to
Speaker 1: seem like Andy stealing my life and a very like
Speaker 1: female competition in the workplace is narrative that was kind
Speaker 1: of was pretty tired and again counts on you being
Speaker 1: on Anne Hathaway side no matter what. But I liked
Speaker 1: Emily's character and it was so clear that she knew
Speaker 1: exactly what she was doing and was really good at
Speaker 1: it and dedicated her life to it. And I don't
Speaker 1: understand why Andy would get preference over her like it doesn't.
Speaker 1: And I think that sometimes the implication is like, well,
Speaker 1: she wants it too badly, and it's like what she's
Speaker 1: working too hard she's doing I don't know. Yeah, my
Speaker 1: main takeaway from that is that it is like kind
Speaker 1: of promoting the trope of you know, women who work
Speaker 1: together or who are in close proximity to each other.
Speaker 1: They got to be competing because that's just how women are.
Speaker 1: And I was surprised or I don't know, I just
Speaker 1: supposed that I was expecting something more along the lines of, oh, well,
Speaker 1: they're both working in this like toxic work environment and
Speaker 1: it's like high stress job. You think they would bond
Speaker 1: over the fact that there's in similar roles in dealing
Speaker 1: with similar things, and there would be like solidarity there
Speaker 1: that they can bond over. But Andy is not good
Speaker 1: at her job and doesn't know what she's doing. But
Speaker 1: that's true, that's true of anyone who starts out at
Speaker 1: a job. I mean, she's way more behind than probably
Speaker 1: most you know, she doesn't even know where she is
Speaker 1: in the beginning. Like I don't know, I think if
Speaker 1: if a if a new coworker of any gender, approached me.
Speaker 1: It's like, excuse me, what is this. It's like, I
Speaker 1: don't have time for this. Like but but there's no
Speaker 1: nuance in the way that's presented. And it's also always like, well,
Speaker 1: feel bad for Andy because this lady is being so
Speaker 1: mean to her. And then the actual first time they
Speaker 1: really bonded was when they meet at that benefit dinner
Speaker 1: and Emily was like, oh my god, you look cheek
Speaker 1: for the first time. And then Andy says to Emily like, well,
Speaker 1: you look skinny. It is and he's like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Saying that bonding scene is crazy. It's like the scene
Speaker 1: where Emily blunts is a bunch of like really troubling
Speaker 1: stuff about her her eating disorder and and and it's
Speaker 1: just like, while you look amazing, and then she's like, cool,
Speaker 1: we're friends now. It's like this is what we bought
Speaker 1: it over, not the mutual abuse you also, and like
Speaker 1: at no point that does Andy go like, what you
Speaker 1: eat a cube of cheese a day? Like can we
Speaker 1: run down is eating disorder? Her? All the white stuff
Speaker 1: in the movie where we I think the first mention
Speaker 1: of it is Andy is getting corn chowder for lunch.
Speaker 1: Stanley Tucci's character makes fun of her and she's like, what,
Speaker 1: none of the girls here eat anything? And he says
Speaker 1: not since two became the new four. Zero became the
Speaker 1: new two. And then she's like, well, I'm a six
Speaker 1: and he's like, which is the new fourteen? So like
Speaker 1: body shaming her. Um, Miranda says she's speaking to Andy.
Speaker 1: She says, I said to myself, take a chance, hire
Speaker 1: the smart fat girl. It seems like they're trying to
Speaker 1: go for satire here sometimes, but it just doesn't work.
Speaker 1: It doesn't work because Miranda's like sincere in other ways.
Speaker 1: And and Stanley, who's called Stanley Tucci, who he goes in,
Speaker 1: he like starts nicknaming her six. He's calling her six
Speaker 1: like and all the and there's nothing in this closet
Speaker 1: that will fit a size six like and then yeah,
Speaker 1: he's like, you're getting chowder. Like he's just like he's
Speaker 1: furious anytime a woman eats, and it is it is
Speaker 1: a trigger for him women being nourished. And then at
Speaker 1: the end of the way that all sort of wraps
Speaker 1: up is that he says something like you bet your
Speaker 1: side sticks ass, and then Andy says, I'm afar now
Speaker 1: and he's like really like at a moment they bonded,
Speaker 1: everyone's bonding over these very sinister body standard things, which yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like it must be an attempt at satire
Speaker 1: to some degree, but also it's not. It doesn't land
Speaker 1: for me. I just I see this and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: they are idolizing small body types. That's what we're supposed
Speaker 1: to take away from the movie. Yeah, No, I think
Speaker 1: it's it thinks it's being cute and clever with that stuff.
Speaker 1: But I don't know for me it totally. And it's
Speaker 1: it's so pervasive because there are like other times where
Speaker 1: like Miranda talks about like a model that got hired,
Speaker 1: and she also makes a remark I think about the
Speaker 1: models wait, like called her frumpy or something, but that
Speaker 1: I think that was deaf. Only one of those moments
Speaker 1: where I was just like the funk, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like and if I if I wasn't who
Speaker 1: I am and have had my own issues with like
Speaker 1: you know, eating stuff, but like I've recovered unhealthy now
Speaker 1: or whatever. But if I was, I think if I
Speaker 1: was younger and more impressional, why I'd be like, oh
Speaker 1: this is I wouldn't even think it was satire. I
Speaker 1: would just think this is like a normal thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that like adult people talk about in their work, which
Speaker 1: is like really fucked up. And if you're a kid
Speaker 1: seeing that movie, because I remember that Emily bluntline so
Speaker 1: specifically because I saw some smood and I was like thirteen,
Speaker 1: and that was like some early proto Jamie eating disorder,
Speaker 1: like peak era, and it at the time sounded to
Speaker 1: me like a literal suggestion of something you could do
Speaker 1: versus Oh, they're trying to make a comment on how
Speaker 1: body centric this. It's just if you're gonna bring up
Speaker 1: the issue of body shaming in the fashion industry, valid
Speaker 1: huge part of the industry, but like make it very clear,
Speaker 1: especially if you're marketing your movie at young people, that
Speaker 1: you're being critical of it and that it's unreasonable and
Speaker 1: that it shouldn't be an objective because yeah, like the
Speaker 1: cube cheese line was like, oh, you can do that,
Speaker 1: even though Emily Blunt is like subtextually saying like and
Speaker 1: it's killing me and I'm almost dead, but all I
Speaker 1: got was like, oh, cube of cheese, you won't die sick,
Speaker 1: like and like she follows that me they be saying like, oh,
Speaker 1: I think she says like, I'm one stomach flew away
Speaker 1: from being a zero my goal away, and she's like
Speaker 1: she's sick during that scene, she has a cold. So
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like are you are you there yet? Like
Speaker 1: you know, like is this the stomming cool that you're getting?
Speaker 1: Like okay, go, you know, like there's no like critique
Speaker 1: of it. There's no Andy being like no, maybe we
Speaker 1: should like why don't we step aside and you have
Speaker 1: something that's not a cube of cheese. There's nothing like that,
Speaker 1: Like all of the things that are talked about with
Speaker 1: wet stuff. Is just very matter of fact. She's part
Speaker 1: of this world and like you should aspire for it.
Speaker 1: And the fact that Andy is like super excited to
Speaker 1: be down to a size four at the end of
Speaker 1: the movie, like that just drives the very wild thing
Speaker 1: about that is that she looks the same, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, from the beginning the end of the movie.
Speaker 1: So then like if you have like body dysmorphia and
Speaker 1: you're like you're thinking that this person who's the same
Speaker 1: body size from the beginning to the end is actually
Speaker 1: has actually fluctuated, it'll just like feed into anybody this
Speaker 1: morphia that you might have. It's yeah, this movie mishandles
Speaker 1: that theme, and it also made me dislike Stanley Tucci's character,
Speaker 1: who I loved at the time the movie came out,
Speaker 1: and I still like, I have a lot of love
Speaker 1: for that character, but so much of the focus is
Speaker 1: on that and then it's like that's where they bond
Speaker 1: and we sort of touched on how his character is
Speaker 1: also very much like, no, you need to accept abuse
Speaker 1: in the workplace, and you know, just do it until
Speaker 1: you get you know, you'll get praise when you're doing
Speaker 1: a good enough job, which is you know, not just
Speaker 1: like a hallmark of abusive work relationships, but all of
Speaker 1: them and and sends I think, I mean, that seemed
Speaker 1: to be a value that the movie held earnestly based
Speaker 1: on how it turns out. It's like, well, if you
Speaker 1: are working around the clock for low pay, you change
Speaker 1: your appearance entirely, then you can become successful. And the
Speaker 1: movie doesn't really challenge that in any way because that's
Speaker 1: what happens is he is that character or queer coded
Speaker 1: I believe, yeah, yeah, he says like um when he
Speaker 1: talks about like his background of how he was like
Speaker 1: a little gay boy, he used to sneak a runway
Speaker 1: and would read under his covers. He doesn't make it
Speaker 1: clear that it's specifically him that he's talking about, but
Speaker 1: you can make that connection pretty easily. So that's yet
Speaker 1: another example that we see in a movie of a
Speaker 1: queer character who gives a makeover, which is something that
Speaker 1: we see so often. And I really didn't like about
Speaker 1: that makeover except for the fact that it mercifully took
Speaker 1: by soft screen. Was was that comes at the end
Speaker 1: of this long gas lighting except abuse in the workplace scene,
Speaker 1: and then the writer has the goal to make it
Speaker 1: Andy's idea to be like, hey, why don't you give
Speaker 1: me a makeover? I was like, you've just failed everyone,
Speaker 1: every character in this scene by having it be like
Speaker 1: I mean, that's so true. I hadn't thought about that
Speaker 1: because it would be one thing if maybe Nigel suggested it.
Speaker 1: It was like forced on her. Not that anything you
Speaker 1: should be forced on anyone, but like the fact that
Speaker 1: they put it on the character just felt weird. I
Speaker 1: don't know. And if you think about her makeover and
Speaker 1: the clothes that she ends up wearing, it was just
Speaker 1: such a generic makeover, like I had nothing of like
Speaker 1: who Andy might be you know how like if you
Speaker 1: watch makeover show, he was like, Oh, you like to
Speaker 1: wear things like this, Let's get you things like that,
Speaker 1: but like better to fit you better, or like a
Speaker 1: color pellette that might like help you with your features
Speaker 1: better or whatever. Yeah, but she's literally like wearing like
Speaker 1: fashion spreads. Yeah, it's just whatever free clothes are available
Speaker 1: that happened to fit her. And she's very comfortable in
Speaker 1: this she's walking in for and she was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: thatstuff was like fun to look at. But I was
Speaker 1: just like, girl, really like not even not even one
Speaker 1: twisted ankle or you know, are being like, oh, the
Speaker 1: skirt is kind of too type this wol doesn't feel
Speaker 1: right against my skin none, none of that. She's just
Speaker 1: like dives right into it. And I think that's why
Speaker 1: I just feel so weird about the anti character in
Speaker 1: this movie. She's like so like she's telling us verbally
Speaker 1: like I don't want to do this, but then all
Speaker 1: of her actions were saying like I'm feeling this very
Speaker 1: freely and happily, and it's making my life better. It
Speaker 1: looks so much better. Can we talk? I know this
Speaker 1: episode is already so long. Can we briefly talk about
Speaker 1: the Christian Thompson character and how he is a fucking
Speaker 1: horrible creep that the movie does not really acknowledge or
Speaker 1: punish him for. Um, I'll just kind of run through
Speaker 1: a list of the things that he does. When he
Speaker 1: first meets Andy, he tells her that you'll never survive Miranda.
Speaker 1: So basically he's nagging her and doesn't have any confidence
Speaker 1: in her abilities. Um, he keeps calling her Miranda girl
Speaker 1: instead of calling her by her name, hot, stripping her
Speaker 1: of her identity and individuality. Well. Also, to be fair,
Speaker 1: Miranda does that to her for most as well. True,
Speaker 1: but we're also you know, Miranda's framed as someone that
Speaker 1: we're not meant to like. At least while she's doing that,
Speaker 1: he says he like sees her in this beautiful gown,
Speaker 1: and he says, oh, you're a vision. Thank god I
Speaker 1: saved your job, and she, to be fair, does challenge
Speaker 1: that and says, well, I figured a few things out
Speaker 1: on my own too, But it's a man taking credit
Speaker 1: for something you shouldn't take credit for her and taking
Speaker 1: credit for a woman's work. Basically, he's also offering her
Speaker 1: a way to get ahead in exchange for basically a
Speaker 1: sustained flirtation with him that we're led to believeable lead
Speaker 1: to sex. And ye he keeps saying like I'll introduce
Speaker 1: you to you know, this editor or whatever. Every time
Speaker 1: a guy says that, bt dubbs, they're lying everything every time. Well,
Speaker 1: I just I just think about like my first year
Speaker 1: living here a lot and like every child who approaches you,
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, no, I know, like blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: It's never true. They always know someone influential's cousin who
Speaker 1: they're on terrible terms with, Like awful news to be
Speaker 1: because I'm relying on that introduction the random man, but
Speaker 1: just like seeing it done in this particular way of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know an editor. I'm like interesting, what's their name? Like,
Speaker 1: how do you know them? I'm so fucking skeptical of everyone.
Speaker 1: But and then he feels like she owes him for
Speaker 1: like the Harry Potter book favor, which is a kid
Speaker 1: how he oh he has access to that, but he
Speaker 1: has a friend who was a friend of a friend
Speaker 1: of a cover designer, which is not how any of
Speaker 1: that that whatever? Okays? Like, yeah, I was gaslighting J
Speaker 1: K Rowling a couple of years ago, so she loved her.
Speaker 1: She likes, Okay, here's how I think he did it.
Speaker 1: I think that he was gaslighting JK. Rowling and then
Speaker 1: she was like, fuck you, I'm out of here. But
Speaker 1: she stayed logged into her Google drive on his computer
Speaker 1: and he never logged out, and so he has all
Speaker 1: of her documents. Maybe I think that he was performing
Speaker 1: the what's the unforgivable curse? That it makes it like
Speaker 1: mind controls you, not the crucial curse. I think that's
Speaker 1: the torture one. I forget what this curch is called
Speaker 1: her and like, yeah, basically like cursed her into giving
Speaker 1: him the manuscript. I think that if someone finds seven
Speaker 1: how many horr cracks? Is it seven? Seven? If you
Speaker 1: find all seven hor cracks, is he gets normal colored hair?
Speaker 1: I actually would watch the film of like people trying
Speaker 1: to figure out how he got the manuscript and then
Speaker 1: they would explore it with via Your Guys series. I
Speaker 1: would watch that there isn't just one to detective and
Speaker 1: be like it was a bad lead. Got a super producer, Sophie,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, says the imperious curse. So he
Speaker 1: was imperious cursing and okay, so finally the worst thing
Speaker 1: he does is that he they're in Paris, he kisses her.
Speaker 1: She keeps saying, after that acid exchange, Paris is pretty.
Speaker 1: He kisses her, she says no, I think three different times,
Speaker 1: and then he keeps pushing past the no keeps kissing
Speaker 1: her and implied like a no means yes, like like
Speaker 1: well I'm out of excuses, and he's like, thank goodness.
Speaker 1: So then they keep kissing and it just shows a
Speaker 1: man pushing past the know, a woman being worn down,
Speaker 1: and the whole thing being framed as romantic rather than predatory,
Speaker 1: which she's happening. She does give consent, yes, and she
Speaker 1: even says like I've had too much to drink everything.
Speaker 1: She lays out all the reasons why it's not a
Speaker 1: good idea, and with the movie, the movie makes her
Speaker 1: consent so that us as viewers don't think he's a
Speaker 1: fucking rate exactly right, exactly, and we see this all
Speaker 1: the fucking time, and this is yet another example of
Speaker 1: how I would have loved for that scene to end
Speaker 1: to be like because also they're in Paris. It's empty,
Speaker 1: there's no one in Paris in this movie, and so
Speaker 1: it's just like she I don't think the movie intensis.
Speaker 1: I think they just couldn't afford extras this day. But
Speaker 1: like they're they're totally in the middle, Like she's drunk
Speaker 1: and alone in a strange city with no one around
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, and so there's always
Speaker 1: that like fear and pressure on women to say yes
Speaker 1: because what is the like what if he gets angry
Speaker 1: at being rejected and then you're physically harmed. They couldn't
Speaker 1: afford extras this day, but it was something that occurred
Speaker 1: to me, And it's still framed as like, Wow, she
Speaker 1: finally hooked up with the whole flesh, because then it
Speaker 1: cuts to the next morning and she's in his bed,
Speaker 1: presumably they've had sex, like and the movie frames the
Speaker 1: sex as consensual, and I think and I think they
Speaker 1: put her there so that she could discover that like
Speaker 1: he had the mock up of the new issue of
Speaker 1: the magazine when Jacqueline becomes the editor. So it's like
Speaker 1: they put her in a situation where she probably didn't
Speaker 1: really want to have sex with him, but she did.
Speaker 1: But so that like there's two things that are happening,
Speaker 1: it can move a plot point and had said that
Speaker 1: like she discovers this, but also to that as viewers,
Speaker 1: maybe we feel a way about her stepping out on
Speaker 1: Nate even though like they're technically broken up. Um, but
Speaker 1: like I think that even ten years ago, I was
Speaker 1: just like this is weird, Like I wasn't even mad
Speaker 1: at her or anything. I could care less about her
Speaker 1: and Nate at that point, right Nate who says, why
Speaker 1: do you women have so many begs? You get one bag,
Speaker 1: you put out your stuff in it, and then we
Speaker 1: got her, Adrian, thank you so much. It's she should
Speaker 1: just you know, maybe shop around for a worthy man
Speaker 1: or no man or no man. I mean, the thing
Speaker 1: with with this genre is that it's still kind of
Speaker 1: subscribes to the like having it all, noss of second
Speaker 1: way feminism, of like saying like, no, she can have both,
Speaker 1: and and still holding that up as like in a
Speaker 1: best case scenario, this is what you'd have, and not
Speaker 1: presenting any sort of fulfillment as a person with anything
Speaker 1: but the completely happy career and home life, which, like
Speaker 1: you were saying, Amy is just like it is a
Speaker 1: great ideal, but then it's you know, in practice, you
Speaker 1: just have to be working twice as hard. So even
Speaker 1: if you do have a successful career and a successful relationship,
Speaker 1: family life, whatever, very often you find yourself like feel
Speaker 1: completely hollow as a stretch so thin. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: you can't and then you're like, Okay, I did what
Speaker 1: I was told, but now I feel nothing. Why is that?
Speaker 1: And and so you know we'll figure it out one
Speaker 1: of these days, we'll get it. Yeah, we need Oh,
Speaker 1: here's what we need. We need a time turner, like
Speaker 1: in Harry Potter three where Hermione. You know she is
Speaker 1: going to all these different classes because she's traveling back
Speaker 1: through time so that she can have it all and
Speaker 1: do everything that she wants. So that's what we as women.
Speaker 1: That's how many more that's Harry Potter references? Would you
Speaker 1: like me to make? I mean, honestly, I'm good leaving
Speaker 1: it here. I see baltimorre it over here and not
Speaker 1: wanting to me to, you know, succeed. That's that's Baltimort's thing.
Speaker 1: He doesn't want people to succeed. My favorite description of
Speaker 1: Baltimore subjectives ever, Baldi word like above all hates success.
Speaker 1: He wants to be the only successful one anyway. Baltimore
Speaker 1: little slit nosed icon do does anyone have anything else
Speaker 1: that they want to talk about before we wrap up?
Speaker 1: We've talked about everything I had. There's so much to
Speaker 1: talk about, so much. Well, does the movie pass the
Speaker 1: Bechtel test? Yes, it does. Women talking about fashion, clothes,
Speaker 1: the magazine, et cetera. There are you know, some conversations
Speaker 1: about men, whether it's Nate or Simon or whoever. The
Speaker 1: conversations that do pass a lot of the time are
Speaker 1: and this isn't a criticism here or there, but they
Speaker 1: do tend to be about hyper feminine topics, which we
Speaker 1: see again and again and again. Yeah, where it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, that whole exchange about Emily Blunt's eating disorder
Speaker 1: and how it's cute passes. And to be clear, it's
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong, inherently wrong with talking about hyper feminine things.
Speaker 1: But because we pretty much only see that in movies
Speaker 1: where women are talking, they're only talking about either like
Speaker 1: very domestic things or very hyper feminine things, and are
Speaker 1: rarely talking about stuff that might be considered gender neutral
Speaker 1: or you know, there's no one's talking about science, but
Speaker 1: there's a lot of talk about work. Just done? Get
Speaker 1: that done? How did you do this? Why aren't you
Speaker 1: doing this? And paper? I really love where is it if? Okay,
Speaker 1: what was it about? If only Andy used her wand
Speaker 1: to summon it with the echio paper, she would have
Speaker 1: oh dear, So anyway, okay, I just it's just not
Speaker 1: for me. I understand. Let's write the movie on our
Speaker 1: nipple scale zero to five nipples based on its portrayal
Speaker 1: of women. This is another tricky one for me because
Speaker 1: it is largely a female driven cast. It is a
Speaker 1: movie that at least starts to explore the professional lives
Speaker 1: of women and the sacrifices that maybe have to be
Speaker 1: made and different things like that. Female relationships are a
Speaker 1: huge part of the movie. But a lot of the
Speaker 1: time in this movie, the female relationships are not going
Speaker 1: very well. You know, we see this like archetypal successful
Speaker 1: career woman who is very difficult to be around. You know.
Speaker 1: There's the weird comments about wait all the time. And
Speaker 1: body type. There's almost no diversity in terms of body
Speaker 1: type and race. It's that weird New York city where
Speaker 1: only white people live. There's just all kinds of problems
Speaker 1: with this movie. So I'm going to give it. I'm
Speaker 1: timpted to give it a too, because I think it's
Speaker 1: it feels like it has its heart set in the
Speaker 1: right place for two thousand's six. But we've progressed a
Speaker 1: little bit as a society since then. Um so it
Speaker 1: feels not so progressive today. But I think for the time,
Speaker 1: it was, you know, attempting to do something. So I'll
Speaker 1: give it a two and I'll give both of my
Speaker 1: nipples to Meryl Street. Wow. Brian sub versa. I was
Speaker 1: I was thinking too as well for this. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree with you that the movie, for all of
Speaker 1: its failings and and sort of I mean, it's weird,
Speaker 1: there's not a uh there's very few topics I feel
Speaker 1: like this movie completely fails. It's just that there's a
Speaker 1: lot of gray area where it is maybe skewing on
Speaker 1: the side of gray area that I agree with less.
Speaker 1: But it is one of the few movies that you're like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, this is definitely a product of its time
Speaker 1: that I don't think is like unwatchable. I think it's
Speaker 1: still like a really fun movie. I'll watch it again.
Speaker 1: It's trying to do a good thing. It's not quite
Speaker 1: getting in there, but you know, we'll feel that way
Speaker 1: about almost any movie made ten years ago, um, which
Speaker 1: hopefully means the world is moving forward, but you know,
Speaker 1: we live in an active hell, so you know, um yeah,
Speaker 1: my mate. Take away from this viewing was the anti
Speaker 1: character and like how inconclusive the journey is and and
Speaker 1: and how frustrating it is to see young women with
Speaker 1: strong opinions have those opinions neutralized over the course of
Speaker 1: a movie. I don't love it, but I give it.
Speaker 1: I give it two stars, and I'm giving them to littles,
Speaker 1: so fucking kill me. Two nipples, and I'm giving the nipples,
Speaker 1: which are star shaped pasties in this case to Tracy
Speaker 1: Tom's who God damn it someday. I mean, she was
Speaker 1: incredible and Rent just like swatch her and Rent but
Speaker 1: Rent is don't say it. Rent is good. Okay. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm like Sadden that you guys only giving it a
Speaker 1: pair of nipples because I was sitting here and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I think this is a solid, like three and a
Speaker 1: half big nipples for me, and I think a lot
Speaker 1: of it's Titan nostalgia. How much I just love the movie,
Speaker 1: and that happens on this podcast, and it's just like
Speaker 1: a fun movie to watch, and I just started really
Speaker 1: thinking critically about because I knew I was going to
Speaker 1: do this podcast, you know. But even for all its troubles,
Speaker 1: I just love it. And yeah, I just love and
Speaker 1: I love even even though it's like trying to talk
Speaker 1: shit about fashion or like consumerism and how all of
Speaker 1: that could be like frivolous, it's still glamorizing in such
Speaker 1: a cute way that I mean, Andy wears some questionable
Speaker 1: things that I don't even think we're in fashion then,
Speaker 1: but it's fun to see like how they thought what
Speaker 1: was fashionable then. And uh. And I think that the
Speaker 1: glossiness of the film is something that making it beautiful
Speaker 1: to look at and fun to watch, while also showing
Speaker 1: a woman in power who even though we're supposed to
Speaker 1: be told is like not a good person, but she's
Speaker 1: still really competent in doing her job. Well. Uh, and
Speaker 1: it's portrayed by Meryl Street. Is such a good thing,
Speaker 1: you know. I think that like to have that piece
Speaker 1: of art in the world. I just appreciated it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I definitely don't understand why they're people of color
Speaker 1: in it, why there aren't more queer people in it
Speaker 1: in the world of fashion. Yeah, that's yeah, I just
Speaker 1: I don't understand why. You know, there are like lots
Speaker 1: of more real world the stuff that isn't like being
Speaker 1: insinuated in the world with a devil worse product. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a film whatever. But I think
Speaker 1: that like storytelling could have been done just you know,
Speaker 1: been more effective. And there are like really fucked up
Speaker 1: portrayals of things that are happening, especially with the Simon
Speaker 1: Baker character. But I just overlook that ship because I like,
Speaker 1: I Hello, I'm a person who watches. The montage is
Speaker 1: for fun, Like I love the folly in the montage
Speaker 1: is like I love the fully of the of the
Speaker 1: purses and the coats, you know, of them hitting the desk. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like. I like track the montage of her makeover
Speaker 1: where she goes through all the different outfits. I like this.
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is filmed in the day. Let's look
Speaker 1: at all the inconsistencies of how it was, like how
Speaker 1: we can track that it was, Like, I love watch.
Speaker 1: I think it's because I love watching like the visuals
Speaker 1: of this movie. So you're allowed. Yeah, I mean, there's
Speaker 1: no there's no wrong answers. There's truly not. We're a
Speaker 1: steel Like I'm being defensive. I'm just telling you why
Speaker 1: I love. Yeah. Of course we're also extremely jaded, and
Speaker 1: I mean I also gave writers of The Lost Dark
Speaker 1: zero nipples, and I still deeply love that movie. So
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a journey that we're all on.
Speaker 1: So I get one of my nipples to the fully artist.
Speaker 1: If you're listening, hit me up. They're biggest fan. Uh
Speaker 1: and definitely a nipple to Miss Meryl. A nipple to Lily,
Speaker 1: who was like, you're saying criminally underused because her joy
Speaker 1: at receiving that hideous mark shake comes back. Was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, man, that bag is ugly, but you
Speaker 1: love it, so I love it and Oscar worthy performance
Speaker 1: trash and then I have a nipple to have a
Speaker 1: nipple to the scene that I want to shout out
Speaker 1: my to my friend Lara, she pointed out to me,
Speaker 1: there's a scene where she comes in and he comes
Speaker 1: into her apartment and she I think she just got
Speaker 1: out of the shower and she's wearing like a bra
Speaker 1: and a tank top and then she puts another tank
Speaker 1: top over it, so pretty over it. So shout out
Speaker 1: to all that layering of tanktops for no reason, I
Speaker 1: didn't notice the tank top on a tank top. I
Speaker 1: get that possibly up to it. I don't know either
Speaker 1: anybody knows behind the scenes info on that. So so
Speaker 1: that half a nipple goes out to my friend Laura,
Speaker 1: who pointed out very good. Well, Amy, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for being here, Thank you for having me talking
Speaker 1: to us for hours? Um, what would you like to plug?
Speaker 1: Where can people find you online? You can find me
Speaker 1: online on the Twitter. My account is Amy A Doisy.
Speaker 1: It's spelled A M y A d o y z
Speaker 1: i E. It's like a graversial name I made up
Speaker 1: when I was a punk kid. I also have a
Speaker 1: website that has like literary event things that I hear
Speaker 1: me now and then. Uh. It's called by Amy lamb
Speaker 1: dot com like a byeline no spaces because I write fiction.
Speaker 1: Um right now, I'm in school and working on a
Speaker 1: novel about like a queer frontier pioneer story. Very cool, yes,
Speaker 1: and I'm writing it as a novel, but one day
Speaker 1: I want to see it made into a thing I
Speaker 1: can watch. Well, I'm a screenwriter, so that I could
Speaker 1: like adopt it. Asking about it on the back better
Speaker 1: get Hella nipples be like, yes, would that not be cool?
Speaker 1: I'm already like projecting it'll be like it happen. Well,
Speaker 1: you can follow the Bechtel Cast on social media across
Speaker 1: all the platforms at Bechtel Cast. You can go to
Speaker 1: our you can join our patreon ak ur Matreon, which
Speaker 1: is five dollars a month and it gets you to
Speaker 1: bonus episodes every single month, plus our whole backlog of
Speaker 1: episodes you get access to that. You can check out
Speaker 1: our t public store, where there's always a lot of
Speaker 1: fun designs, and then get a t public dot com
Speaker 1: slash the backdel Cast. There's all sorts of ship you
Speaker 1: can do on the internet. Right and review us on iTunes?
Speaker 1: Does anyone ever? Sometimes people do that. Yeah, it helps
Speaker 1: us out. Like every time the podcast is like do it,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh God, do that? But you should? You
Speaker 1: should and be better. I hope you guys get some
Speaker 1: like thick caveata boys. Unfortunately, if they also have flesh
Speaker 1: colored hair, they will not like us. It's complex in it,
Speaker 1: it's really complicated. But anyway, thanks again for for being here.
Speaker 1: What a time we've had, And just a reminder that
Speaker 1: the devil does wear products. To quote the movie, it
Speaker 1: does alright by I