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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and Beast start changing

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Speaker 2: it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Caitlin, yeah, Jamie.

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Speaker 3: Do you want to go to a to a treehouse

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Speaker 3: and smoke cigarettes and or makeout?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: But I do. For some reason, one of us should

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Speaker 3: pretend to not remember it happened until the end. It'd

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Speaker 3: be like, no, I totally remembered it, and then we'll

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Speaker 3: start making out again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And then do you want to watch

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Speaker 1: a whole TV series with me?

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Speaker 3: Honestly no, but I don't want to do that with anybody.

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Speaker 3: What if, also, I was sort of it depends on

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Speaker 3: the series, right.

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Speaker 1: Well, what if it's the Jinks.

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Speaker 3: If it was, of course, pursue this jinx, I would

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Speaker 3: watch it again. But what if she was like SVU

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Speaker 3: and You're like, no.

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Speaker 1: That's such a commitment thirty thirty years worth of TV.

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Speaker 3: I can't do that.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to the episode of Law and Order SVU

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Speaker 1: that I was an extra in, Thank you very much.

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Speaker 3: Do you know how I mean? It's just so like,

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Speaker 3: there's so many episodes. How would we find it? I

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Speaker 3: would watch that episode with you and then we could

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Speaker 3: make out we can't smoke cigarettes. I hate cigarettes?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, me too, right, I.

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Speaker 3: Think was how the negotiation should have gone in the

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Speaker 3: tree house. Anyways, Welcome to the Bechel Cast. My name's

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Speaker 3: Jamie Loftus, my.

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Speaker 1: Name is Caitlin Derante, and this is our show where

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Speaker 1: we analyze movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point to initiate

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Speaker 1: a larger conversation about representation in film. And such a

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Speaker 1: freaky little diving board.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, we are covering. I think this is one

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Speaker 3: of the more recent movies we have covered in recent months.

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Speaker 3: I feel like for some reason, we have been really

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Speaker 3: not trapped, but like really in two thousand and three

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Speaker 3: to two thousand and six. It's just kind of where

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Speaker 3: we've been living, which is interesting because it was such

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Speaker 3: a bizarro time. So I'm thrilled to be propelled into

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Speaker 3: the present with a modern rom com. I think a

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Speaker 3: genre that isn't getting much love these days.

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Speaker 1: It's true, I think that the whole genre needs an update. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: and I think that this movie What's Love Got to

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Speaker 1: Do With It? Question Mark from twenty twenty two does

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Speaker 1: interesting things to give like a modern spin on rom

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Speaker 1: com tropes, and I'm excited to talk about them.

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Speaker 3: I agree. Yeah, this movie. It's a very sweet movie.

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Speaker 3: It's a very realm commy movie. But there's way more

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Speaker 3: to it. And it's also I mean, it has an

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Speaker 3: interesting backstory and it also it's so nice to watch

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Speaker 3: a roalm com where you don't need to, at least

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Speaker 3: to the same degree, like trudge through these dated tropes

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Speaker 3: and be like, Okay, I have to make excuses in

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Speaker 3: my head. I have to like do a mission impossible

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Speaker 3: like laser thing to get to be able to enjoy this.

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Speaker 3: It's it's a modern rom com, yes, imagine.

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Speaker 1: And to be clear, this is not the What's Love

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Speaker 1: Got to Do With It? The nineteen ninety three biopic,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I've never seen it. It's a drama.

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Speaker 1: It's a mute Tina Turner. This is not that movie.

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Speaker 3: It's a really incredible performance. I will say. I think

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Speaker 3: maybe one of my biggest notes with this movie is

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Speaker 3: why did they call it this when that is already

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Speaker 3: a famous movie. It's so confusing and it's so hard

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Speaker 3: to find. However, you should find. I honestly think that

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Speaker 3: you should. There should be a double feature programmed somewhere

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Speaker 3: where you just watch both what What's Love Got to

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Speaker 3: Do It? It's especially I think I would do ooh,

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Speaker 3: this is my Barbenheimer for What's Love Got To Do

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Speaker 3: With That? Both? I would say that the Tina Turner

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Speaker 3: biopic first, and this as as a lighthearted palate cleanser,

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Speaker 3: because What's Love Got to Do with It? The first

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Speaker 3: one has pretty pretty, it gets it gets intense.

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Speaker 1: Sure, I've never seen it, so I can't speak to it.

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Speaker 3: We'll cover it on What's Love Got to Do With It?

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Speaker 1: March over on the Matreon.

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Speaker 3: But so anyway, we're covering the twenty twenty two film

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Speaker 3: written by Jemima Khan, directed by Shaikhar Kapor, and we

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Speaker 3: have an amazing guest here to discuss this movie with us.

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Speaker 1: We certainly do. She is the producer and host of

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Speaker 1: the podcast Immigrantly and the co producer and co host

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Speaker 1: of the podcast Invisible Hate. It's Sadia Khan. Hi, Hi,

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Speaker 1: how are you look so good? How are you?

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Speaker 4: I am good and I'm so excited to dissect this

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Speaker 4: movie with you, but justin if I. When I recommended it,

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Speaker 4: I realized it's only available on Prime with like you

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Speaker 4: have to rent it, and I felt so bad. I

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Speaker 4: was like, oh my gosh, do we have to really

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Speaker 4: rent it? I don't know how you washed it away

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Speaker 4: you watched it, but I I rented it, watched it,

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Speaker 4: and then recommend it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we all gave Jeff bezos are four dollars.

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Speaker 3: I gave I don't remember who missus YouTube is. I

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Speaker 3: gave missus YouTube four dollars.

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Speaker 1: Wow, okay, nice.

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Speaker 3: So it could be an equally evil transaction. I'm not

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Speaker 3: really sure. It probably is, probably, you know, statistically.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I had to detox myself after that, but that's fine.

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Speaker 3: Right right, Yeah, anytime you give Jeff Bezos money, you

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Speaker 3: just have to take like a long, a long shower

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Speaker 3: and feel like, right right, it will be better, I

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Speaker 3: know it.

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Speaker 1: And then like donate to a local mutual aid effort.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, Sadia, what's your relationship with this movie?

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Speaker 4: So it's interesting how until I was finalized to come

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Speaker 4: on your show, I wasn't really thinking of watching this.

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Speaker 4: I had heard of it. There was so much buzz

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Speaker 4: around it. The screenplay is written by Jemi Makhan. She

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Speaker 4: is ex wife of former Pakistani Prime Minister Imraan Khan,

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Speaker 4: who was a very very famous cricketer in the eighties

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Speaker 4: and nineties and I had a huge crush on him.

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Speaker 4: I still do, but he's alust seventeen now I think

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Speaker 4: he is. He used to be a lot harder, but anyways,

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Speaker 4: So for me, this movie embodies so much that we

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Speaker 4: don't see in mainstream media in the West. It's a

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Speaker 4: rom com that features a Pakistani British family. It's outside

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Speaker 4: the stereotypical representation of Muslims, Muslim man being a terrorist

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Speaker 4: and Muslim woman being oppressed, and so I was. I

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Speaker 4: was drawn to it from the get goal and then

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Speaker 4: when you guys approached me and I thought, why not

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Speaker 4: discuss something that people are probably not aware of or

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Speaker 4: is not part of their consciousness, and maybe we can

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Speaker 4: talk about something that's fun, but at the same time

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Speaker 4: they can go watch it and just see a different

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Speaker 4: side of a Muslim family.

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Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah, I wasn't aware of this movie until either

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Speaker 1: you pitched it to us, even though it has some

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Speaker 1: like pretty big names in it in the cast. I

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Speaker 1: was like, Oh, what's this little indie comedy.

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Speaker 3: Right, and then you're like, oh, no, everyone in this

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Speaker 3: movie is very famous, famous. I also had I mean,

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Speaker 3: it just came out in the US two months ago

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Speaker 3: or so, I guess it was released in the US

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Speaker 3: in May. But even so, I feel like I should

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Speaker 3: have heard more about it. But I'm very glad I

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Speaker 3: watched it, and I'm really glad that you, uh, you

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Speaker 3: brought it to us, because yeah, I think, certainly growing

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Speaker 3: up in the US, the anti Muslim sentiment in the world,

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Speaker 3: and also especially in I feel like a lot of

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Speaker 3: media that you consumed voluntarily or through just cultural osmosis

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Speaker 3: when we were, when we were younger and still now

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Speaker 3: is just not inclusive. It's very clear what the point

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Speaker 3: of view is when talking about Pakistani characters. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: this this movie felt like a breath of fresh air totally,

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Speaker 3: and I was really interested in sort of the background

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Speaker 3: of how it was, how it was made. And I

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Speaker 3: just love rom coms so much, like I just am

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Speaker 3: a sucker for people kissing in a treehouse. Unfortunately, it

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Speaker 3: is pretty cute. It's pretty cute.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I am less thrilled by rom comms in general,

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Speaker 1: as listeners of the show probably know. But I I

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Speaker 1: like them in theory. It's just that the execution of

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Speaker 1: them is often like riddled with so many problematic things,

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Speaker 1: as we've also discussed a lot on the show.

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Speaker 3: But this movie is not immune too. I feel like

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Speaker 3: there's no such thing as a perfect I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I've yet to see a rom com that completely subverts tropes.

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Speaker 3: It is so trupe. I not that I don't believe

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Speaker 3: it's possible, and not that I wouldn't die in the

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Speaker 3: pursuit of making the first perfect realm com, but it's

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Speaker 3: it's a genre that's so I mean, the idea of

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Speaker 3: like true love is so tropy that like accessing that.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it's so tough without without some level

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Speaker 3: of troping. Not to excuse it, but I was like

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Speaker 3: not not shocked that when any realm coom, you're like, oh, there,

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Speaker 3: there it is. There's the wise grandmother imparting advice. This

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Speaker 3: is what happens in this genre.

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Speaker 1: It's true. So yeah, shall we just dive into the

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Speaker 1: recap and go from there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it all right?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So we are in London, England. Ever heard of it?

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Speaker 1: And we meet Zoe played by Lily James, who goes

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Speaker 1: to a wedding where she reconnects with her childhood friend,

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Speaker 1: Kaz played by Shazad Latif. Kaz, who was born in

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Speaker 1: the UK but whose family comes from Pakistan tells Zoe

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Speaker 1: that he has asked his parents to arrange a marriage

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Speaker 1: for him, or rather like assist in his pursuit of

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Speaker 1: finding a partner, and Zoe cannot wrap her head around

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Speaker 1: anyone wanting to marry someone who they don't already know

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Speaker 1: and already love. She is looking for love and she

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Speaker 1: dates around but has not been able to find the

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Speaker 1: right guy for her.

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Speaker 3: Yes, which we find out through one of the tropier

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Speaker 3: elements of this movie that was making me laugh because

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Speaker 3: I'm like, well, this isn't hurting anyone, it's just corny

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Speaker 3: where there's this like through line of she's telling her

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Speaker 3: niece's fairy tales in this like I don't know it was.

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Speaker 3: It was really giving twenty twelve to me, where it

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Speaker 3: was like once there was a beauty and there was

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Speaker 3: a beast, but wait, this beauty was trying to break

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Speaker 3: the glass ceiling.

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Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, she's like once upon a time Cinderella

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Speaker 1: cared more about the glass ceiling than glass slippers.

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Speaker 3: I was like, wow, like wow, interesting hearing from Lily James,

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Speaker 3: who literally played Cinderella.

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Speaker 1: Wow, feel like there's.

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Speaker 3: A little wink. There's a little wink going on.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So Zoe, who is a documentary filmmaker, pitches and

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Speaker 1: gets like studio backing or like production company funding or

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Speaker 1: I don't know. She's talking to some suits who are

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Speaker 1: very I.

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Speaker 3: Liked the film bros. Those are like some of my

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Speaker 3: favorite trophy because especially because the writer is a documentarian

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Speaker 3: and so you just hear these like two like I

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Speaker 3: don't know, it didn't feel totally overwrought where it's just

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Speaker 3: like two white guy executives being like, ooh, women movie, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it, and that's they're so hot right now,

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Speaker 1: so let's make money off it.

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Speaker 4: Could you could see that they were just you know,

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Speaker 4: checking different boxes and they were a bit ass wholey,

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Speaker 4: But then the depiction was realistic in some ways as well.

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Speaker 1: Totally like so many industry people are exactly that way anyway.

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Speaker 1: So she pitches this documentary about Kaz's arranged slash assisted marriage,

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Speaker 1: and the film bros Are like, yeah, go for it,

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Speaker 1: and then Kaz, after some convincing, reluctantly and eventually agrees

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Speaker 1: to be the subject of this documentary, and so Zoe

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Speaker 1: starts filming and interviewing him. They're talking about this relationship

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Speaker 1: dynamic where Zoe says, like, what about love and Kaz

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Speaker 1: says the name of the movie. Basically, He's like, what's

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Speaker 1: love got to do with it? He's like, you don't

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Speaker 1: always have to start in love. You can grow to

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Speaker 1: love someone over time, and she just again continues to

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Speaker 1: have a hard time wrapping her head around this. She

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Speaker 1: also films Kaz and his parents Aisha end Zaheed played

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Speaker 1: by Shabana Asmi and Jeff Mirza. They're all meeting with

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Speaker 1: this matchmaker guy whose name is Mo and they're going

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Speaker 1: over the various criteria that they want in a partner

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Speaker 1: for Kaz. Then Zoe films Kaz going to this Muslim

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Speaker 1: matchmaking event, but he doesn't meet anyone there who he

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Speaker 1: clicks with because he is still looking for some kind

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Speaker 1: of spark or click.

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Speaker 3: It was making me like, I I this was this

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Speaker 3: was so goofy, like journalist brain. But when she is

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Speaker 3: filming the whole like mixer as like Okay, she's gonna

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Speaker 3: get three hundred releases today. Best of luck with that,

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Speaker 3: Lily James. That's a lot of paperwork, lady, But we

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Speaker 3: never see her do any of a lot of my

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Speaker 3: criticisms of this movie is the way.

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Speaker 1: That she makes her documentary. I'm like, this is not correct.

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Speaker 3: You know, you're right.

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Speaker 4: It's they keep telling us how big a documentary and

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Speaker 4: she is, but then you don't see it reflected in

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Speaker 4: the movie. And I also want his crew she's not.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what she's doing right. And then I

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Speaker 4: also want to go back to most scene where Cosim's

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Speaker 4: parents are basically sharing a list of you know, traits

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Speaker 4: that they want in their daughter in law. Not that

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Speaker 4: that particular scene is pretty much emblematic of problematic cultural

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Speaker 4: norms that exist within South Asian culture and also in

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Speaker 4: the context of arranged marriage. And Cosin keeps saying that

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Speaker 4: he wants to click, but then fast forward to the

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Speaker 4: bride to be he he just settles like he doesn't

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Speaker 4: even want to have any shared any common interests. And

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Speaker 4: we'll come to that, I'm sure, But yeah, yeah, they

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Speaker 4: had a lot of contradiction.

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Speaker 1: They don't click at all, Like it's really.

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Speaker 4: And why I settle for somebody a decade younger, Like, dude,

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Speaker 4: you could you could say no to that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you could take a second skype call. It seems

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Speaker 3: like very passive. I was confused. Yeah, I feel like

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Speaker 3: there were times where kas would say something but then

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Speaker 3: do something far more passive. His character was interesting, yeah,

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Speaker 3: because he was like, oh, he had like this list

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Speaker 3: of like this is what I would want in a partner,

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Speaker 3: and like the click. But yeah, but then the way

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Speaker 3: that their meeting is their first meeting. I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: fine that it's so awkward, but it stays that way,

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Speaker 3: and he seems to resent her for being her age,

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Speaker 3: which he knew, and he's like, why does she like

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Speaker 3: to dance? You're like, because she's twenty two, that's why.

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Speaker 1: That is why.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we're about to get to that car a lot

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Speaker 1: where Kaz's parents want to introduce him to a woman

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Speaker 1: named Maimuna who lives in Lahore, Pakistan, and he meets

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Speaker 1: her skype. She's played by so jall Ali. They made

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Speaker 1: a for Skype, and she's very quiet and reserved and

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Speaker 1: it seems very awkward at first, but they eventually find

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Speaker 1: some common ground off screen apparently off screen.

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Speaker 3: He's like, no, you know, we've been texting and calling

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Speaker 3: and we we like each other now. And it's like,

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Speaker 3: believe it when I see it.

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Speaker 4: Right, you can see from the get gool that she's

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Speaker 4: not interested in him, Like she is totally totally out

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Speaker 4: of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll find out why shortly.

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Speaker 3: But I was honestly relieved when we found out why,

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Speaker 3: because I was like this, I just felt for it

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Speaker 3: because he was like judging her so kind of like

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Speaker 3: not like overtly, but like behind the scenes, he definitely

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Speaker 3: was judging her. And I was like, she she did

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Speaker 3: nothing wrong.

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Speaker 1: She just wants to be a human rights attorney.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And ultimately, Ultimately and Zoe deserve each other because

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Speaker 3: they're both so boring and kind of judgmental.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad you said that Zoe is so judgmental, and

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Speaker 4: we could do an entire episode on how judgmental she is.

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Speaker 4: Like it's not like she thinks there's something good about

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Speaker 4: assistant or arranged marriage. She's not. She's not trying to

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Speaker 4: approach it from a place of curiosity. She's judging it

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Speaker 4: throughout the film, right.

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Speaker 5: Every scene in a way that is like it's so

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Speaker 5: funny because it's like, I know that Jemima Hunt is

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Speaker 5: a very like talented, decorated documentary producer, but I'm just like,

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Speaker 5: but then she would know that you can't just press

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Speaker 5: pause and be like you're wrong, Like that's not how

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Speaker 5: that's not how that works.

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Speaker 3: You're that's that's not impartial.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no objectivity to her approach. But yeah, we'll

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Speaker 1: we'll discuss that further. Meanwhile, Zoe pays a visit to

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Speaker 1: her mom, Cath played by Emma Thompson, who is pressuring

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Speaker 1: Zoe to get married and start a family, and she's

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Speaker 1: trying to set Zoe up with her vet James, but

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Speaker 1: Zoe isn't really having it. There's also a scene where

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Speaker 1: she considers freezing her eggs not bad for James. James,

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Speaker 1: he seems sweet, another person in this movie who did nothing.

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Speaker 3: Wrong and is just judged. And ooh that scene where

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Speaker 3: Lily James is taking is doing her goofy thing she

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Speaker 3: does with her nieces where she tells them boring stories

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Speaker 3: that are about her secretly, where she's just talking shit

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Speaker 3: about James to her nieces. I was like, what are

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Speaker 3: you doing? And then he's standing right there because it's

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Speaker 3: a rom com like.

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Speaker 1: Man, and he's like, damn, she doesn't love me.

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Speaker 3: It's like, and she feels comfortable sharing that with a

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Speaker 3: seven year old for some reason, and for.

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Speaker 1: Some reason, this seven year old is so interested in

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Speaker 1: her story.

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Speaker 3: These seven year olds are missing the bride. But now

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna now, I'm gonna lazer in on the seven

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Speaker 3: year old to be like they were. And then she's

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Speaker 3: like and then she was in love and Lily James

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Speaker 3: is like, no, she wasn't.

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Speaker 4: She's even judging seven year olds, by the way, Yeah

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Speaker 4: she is.

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Speaker 3: So it's so frustrating when it's like, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: because there is such a having a The likability of

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Speaker 3: women characters across media is so often discussed in a

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Speaker 3: very disingenuous way, and you hear it because from people

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Speaker 3: who just generally don't seem to like women very much. However, Uh,

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Speaker 3: Zoe is not. I did not find her to be

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Speaker 3: likable at all. I did not like her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, especially again, she spends the whole movie being like

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Speaker 1: this cultural practice of yours is weird and I hate it.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, wow, maybe don't be like that anyway.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, her mom's trying to set her up with

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Speaker 1: James the Vet. She's not really having it. She also

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Speaker 1: considers freezing her eggs because she does she says she

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Speaker 1: wants to be a mother, although she'd rather be a father,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was pretty funny. But she decides that

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Speaker 1: freezing her eggs is not a good option for her

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Speaker 1: after all. Then her best friend Helena tells Zoe that

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Speaker 1: she found out that her husband Harry, has been cheating

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Speaker 1: on her for a while. Also, Zoe hooks up with

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Speaker 1: a man who she later realizes is married and cheating

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Speaker 1: on his wife with Zoe. So Zoe is losing more

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Speaker 1: and more faith that this whole love and family thing

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Speaker 1: could pan out for her or anyone really. Then Kaz

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Speaker 1: reveals to Zoe on camera because she's still making her

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Speaker 1: documentary with zero crew, only one camera, no microphones, no lighting,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: I didn't mind that they romcomified the documentary job, especially

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Speaker 3: because the writer knew damn well that that's not how

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Speaker 3: you make a documentary. But I was like, yeah, it

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Speaker 3: is kind of fun to be like a documentary is

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Speaker 3: when you watch back film you shot while drinking a

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Speaker 3: gigantic glass of wine. That's how that works.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that'd be fun just editing on iMovie on

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Speaker 1: your personal laptop. Anyway, So Kas reveals that he has

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Speaker 1: gotten engaged to Maimuna and the wedding is in a month,

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Speaker 1: and he invites Zoe and her mom Kath to come

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Speaker 1: to Pakistan where the wedding will be, to just hang

381
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Speaker 1: out for a bit as he and his family gears

382
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Speaker 1: up for this wedding. So they all arrive in Lahore

383
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Speaker 1: and and Cos meets his bride to be Maimuna in

384
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Speaker 1: person for the first time. It's a bit awkward, and

385
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Speaker 1: Zoe continues to question if he wants to go through

386
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Speaker 1: with this, but he says he does, and Kaz takes

387
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Speaker 1: Zoe to a bizarre he puts a necklace on her.

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Speaker 1: It feels very romantic, even though I would argue that

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Speaker 1: these two people have zero chemistry on.

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Speaker 3: Screen, as is so common and that is the make

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Speaker 3: or break factor of any rom com where it's like,

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Speaker 3: I will watch absolute dog shit if I believe the

393
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Speaker 3: two leads want to fuck each other.

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Speaker 1: True, it's such a beautiful thing to watch, it is.

395
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Speaker 1: The point is it seems like they're vibing a bit.

396
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Speaker 1: Zoe is like, remember how I was your first kiss

397
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Speaker 1: in the treehouse and he's like, no, I don't remember that.

398
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Speaker 1: But then later he's like, I've never forgotten. I was

399
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Speaker 1: lying before.

400
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Speaker 4: They're like, why the hell was he lying there?

401
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Speaker 1: I did not get that. Is he just like denying

402
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Speaker 1: his feelings for her because he knows that he's about

403
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Speaker 1: to get married to someone else. Yeah, maybe it's.

404
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 3: Like it sounds like they were like fourteen when this happened.

405
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: Right, they were like tweens or something.

406
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Speaker 3: He wasn't cheating on me moonas she was a baby

407
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Speaker 3: when that happened.

408
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, she was four when that.

409
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Caaz and Zoe also talk about his sister Jamila,

410
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Speaker 1: who the family has more or less disowned because she

411
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Speaker 1: married a white, non Muslim man and that broke her grandparents'

412
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Speaker 1: hearts and it just really upset the whole family, which

413
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Speaker 1: is there in the story to imply that if Caaz

414
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Speaker 1: and Zoe were to get together, it would be a

415
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: huge disgrace to his family. Right, so the steaks are high.

416
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Speaker 1: Then that night is the Mendy, the like pre wedding

417
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: party where Mamona is no longer the timid, soft spoken,

418
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Speaker 1: modest woman that we all thought she was she parties.

419
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Speaker 1: Oh she's drinking. Oh she's smoking weed. Oh she's tearing

420
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Speaker 1: it up on the dance floor. Oh she has gay

421
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Speaker 1: friends and so she's also.

422
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 3: Sinner. I loved this scene for her where she like

423
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 3: basically calls Zoe a loser. Like she's like, Okay, if

424
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Speaker 3: you're not fucking chill, I guess I'll go over here.

425
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Speaker 3: She like she calls her cousin Zoe old losers. Good

426
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Speaker 3: for her, She's like, I thought you would be modern,

427
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 3: you know, living in London and everything, but you guys

428
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 3: suck and I'm gonna go get sucked up on coke

429
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 3: massalas on the dance floor. I love Memuna and the

430
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Speaker 3: maymuna defense for us.

431
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Speaker 1: She at first I was just like, who is this

432
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Speaker 1: woman who like she barely says a single sentence at

433
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Speaker 1: a at a time, like one word responses. And then

434
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: all of a sudden she's like, I'm a wild child,

435
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: I'm a girl's gone wild, and I'm like, yes, more

436
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: of this, please.

437
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 4: You know. But what I did not get was this

438
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 4: this transition or this change in her behavior from the

439
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 4: way she appeared on Skype versus the way she acted

440
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 4: because if she is studying to be a human rights lawyer,

441
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 4: her family seems pretty modern. She should have been less

442
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 4: timid having those conversations with him, So why was she

443
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 4: acting the way she was during those skype calls? Not

444
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 4: get that?

445
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 3: I was curious about that, Yeah, because I thought that

446
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 3: they were setting up a different character where I was like, Oh,

447
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 3: she's like socially awkward or that was like how it

448
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 3: felt when we met her. I was like, Oh, she's

449
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 3: really shy, maybe like she's not comfortable. But then you're like, hmm,

450
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 3: clearly that's not true. Maybe I don't know. The closest

451
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 3: I was getting was like her family was like watching

452
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 3: her have that, but I don't know. Yeah, it's felt

453
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 3: like a mismatch where it seemed like she has this

454
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 3: big personality but when we're introduced to.

455
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: Her, she's suppressing all of it. Right that skype call

456
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: I thought was establishing like she's another like not good

457
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: match for Kaz because they barely have a conversation and

458
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: she's saying she's giving him nothing and he's having to

459
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 1: keep the conversation going, and I'm like, oh, they're not compatible.

460
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: He has to find the next person. But it's like no,

461
00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: that's who he ends up marrying. Okay, anyway, so Kas

462
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: learns all this stuff about Maimuna, that she's, you know,

463
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: a party animal, and it comes as quite of a

464
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: shock to him. So he spends most of the evening

465
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 1: hanging out with Zoe, whose feelings for each other seemed

466
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: to be bubbling closer to the surface.

467
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 4: Uh.

468
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: Then the following day is the marriage ceremony, where prior

469
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: to the ceremony, Zoe tries to convince Caause not to

470
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: go through with it, and she's just like everyone's pretending,

471
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: Like you should stop pretending, Like what about Jamila, your sister,

472
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: She's not even here, Like this is a facade. And

473
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: he's like, just because you have horrible taste in men

474
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: and you always end up with the wrong person doesn't

475
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: mean that I will.

476
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 3: Oh, he goes, he really, I was like, oh ouch,

477
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 3: what is he? I wrote down? I wrote down what

478
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 3: he said because it hurt my feelings, he says. He says,

479
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 3: I have a question, does it hurt less when you

480
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 3: aim low? And miss as.

481
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: Like, oh out, wow?

482
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 3: Is bad? Gnar? Really? I mean to be fair, She's

483
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 3: been really judgy towards him for weeks. At this point, yeah, true,

484
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 3: but I was like, ooh ooh that was I felt

485
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 3: that in my gut.

486
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: Also, he says something like, if the first guy you

487
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: date is a dick, that's like a hymn problem. If

488
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: the next ten guys you date are also dicks, then

489
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: maybe you should like look inward and see why that is.

490
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, as someone who has dated exclusively

491
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: horrible men one after the other and it's not my fault,

492
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: I resented that statement.

493
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 3: And also the beautiful irony is like, you're being a

494
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 3: dick right now? Show me, like, how are you being

495
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 3: better menor awhile, Yeah that was. I was like, you know,

496
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 3: there's a lot of things I don't care for in

497
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 3: Zoe's behavior, but as like dating men and them all

498
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 3: sucking like common experience.

499
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so true. Anyway, So Kuz and Maimona get married,

500
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: although Maimuna is crying an awful lot and we're wondering

501
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: what's happening there.

502
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, So here's what I would say though, And the

503
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 4: statement that Cosim's mother makes eyeshop that a lot of

504
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 4: women cry, even if they're really happy that happens. It's

505
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 4: a tradition, like you just have to show how devastated

506
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 4: you are leaving your family behind, your parents, and those

507
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 4: who don't cry, it's like it's kind of frowned upon,

508
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 4: and it used to be more intense obviously twenty thirty

509
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 4: years ago, and now nobody really gives a shit. But

510
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 4: I remember I did not cry at all, and I

511
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 4: am telling you I was judged. I was judged for

512
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 4: not crying. Like there was, you know, a lot of

513
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 4: gossip and conversations around it. So yeah, you kind of

514
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 4: you kind of have to pretend to cry sometimes you

515
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 4: really do cry because you're leaving your bab in solme

516
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 4: and you have this strong attachment do your family, coming

517
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 4: from collectivist societies. But yeah, so I wouldn't dig this

518
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 4: as a signal that she was unhappy, because a lot

519
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 4: of Pakistani girls do cry.

520
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, we do find out that she is crying,

521
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: at least partially because she is unhappy entering this marriage.

522
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: But yes, cousin's mom was like, oh, it's it's tradition

523
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: for Pakistani women to cry as they leave their family, So.

524
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: That's good to know. Yeah, because I wasn't sure because

525
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 3: of what we learned later if Kaz's mom was just

526
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: saying that to be like, it's all good. But okay,

527
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 3: that's I didn't know that CAD weddings are so like

528
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 3: across cultures are so entrenched in performance. Yes, like all

529
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 3: weddings are performance.

530
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true. So then Zoe returns to the UK

531
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: and starts dating James the Vet and.

532
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 4: It's such a sweet guy. Though he is my favorite

533
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 4: character in this movie.

534
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: He is sweet, he treats her well, he seems to

535
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: be emotionally mature.

536
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 3: But in the she's like, boom, let him go. Yeah,

537
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 3: dates someone who likes him.

538
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: I don't know why she stays with him because she

539
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: clearly isn't in love with him and he's not the

540
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: right guy for her.

541
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 3: I think I know why, but it's she's it's misguided.

542
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 3: She's just such a dufus.

543
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: She truly is. Then it's time for a screening of

544
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: Zoe's documentary, which has a mixed response, where Maimuna thinks

545
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: it's beautiful and she loves it, but and his family

546
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: are outraged that Zoe included his sister Jamila and her

547
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: non Muslim husband. On top of that, James breaks up

548
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: with Zoe because he knows that she's not in love

549
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: with him and he doesn't want to be her like,

550
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: yeah he advocated yeah.

551
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 3: Right, I was happy for him, mm hmm.

552
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: And then Zoe gets word from the Broe suits who

553
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: are like funding the documentary that they are not going

554
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: to move forward with the project because it's quote a

555
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: diverse subject, which is great, but through a white lens,

556
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: which is not so great. And it's like, well, why

557
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: didn't you say that before she made the documentary? Like

558
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:49,959
Speaker 1: why is this just now coming up?

559
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 3: That was my confusion too, because I was like, okay,

560
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 3: fair point, but weird time to bring it up.

561
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they already knew what it was going to

562
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: be about as she pitched it.

563
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 3: So but they were so bold over that by the

564
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 3: fact that she was a woman, that they forgot that

565
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 3: she was white.

566
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 4: Yes, so they don't get the intersectional box, right, They

567
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 4: didn't get that. Maybe the funders pointed out maybe somebody

568
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 4: said something to them and then they realized. But yeah,

569
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 4: they had typical bruised They don't know everything, right, Oh,

570
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 4: they know very little.

571
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: I would say, yeah, and I that was such an

572
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 3: interesting plot point because I'm like, I don't disagree with

573
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 3: what they're saying, but it's wild that they stumbled on

574
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,919
Speaker 3: it because we've watched her make this documentary and there

575
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 3: has been no care taking. It's just like, because I

576
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 3: think the phrase they uses white lens, I'm like, yeah,

577
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 3: that is quite literally what she was doing the whole time.

578
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 3: They're not wrong, That's what I thought too.

579
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 4: I was like, ooka a good decision, but too late.

580
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: I guess too late? And why is it coming from

581
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: those guys and not like Kazu's family for example, Like

582
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: if I was them, I would be like, why are

583
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: you a white lady the person to tell our story?

584
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 4: I think for them because she grew up being in

585
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 4: their home, maybe they see her as part of their family,

586
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 4: extended family. So I don't think they see her as

587
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 4: this white woman documenting their lives, so they don't see

588
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 4: her through that lens.

589
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what she does anyway,

590
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: that's what she's doing.

591
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's I mean, Kazu's family is so welcoming

592
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 3: to Zoe and also it seems like her mom. It

593
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 3: seems like they are basically functioned as Kat's family, and

594
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 3: I mean the cath character will get to her, but

595
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 3: they're yeah, they're they're very kind to the I had

596
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 3: to look up there the Stephenson family. Sure, yes, just whatever,

597
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 3: very rom COMMI name. Yeah, it felt like Zoe. The

598
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 3: point of view of Zoe's documentary was so Western in

599
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 3: that like she she was just like well, coming in

600
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 3: with the assumption that her viewer would not respect or

601
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 3: approve of assisted marriage in any way, and being like,

602
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 3: but I can prove that it's not all bad, Like,

603
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 3: it's just coming in with the perspective that obviously Western

604
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 3: approaches to relationships are healthy and great, which is like.

605
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: So all of this stuff has happened, and Zoe is

606
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: very depressed and lonely and defeated, and then we get

607
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: a reveal that Maimuna is in love with someone back

608
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: in Pakistan and that she went through with this marriage

609
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: for her family, who like insisted that she get married

610
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 1: to Kaz And he's like, well, what do we do now,

611
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: and she says, will pretend like everyone else brutal. My

612
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 1: head canon is that she was in love with another woman.

613
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: We don't see who the person she's in love with.

614
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 3: But I guess they are. They are only referred to

615
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 3: as someone.

616
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 1: Else, someone else, the mysterious someone else. Yes, anyway, so

617
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: she's like, we'll just pretend because that's what needs to

618
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: be done. And then Kaz has a conversation with his

619
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: mom where she says that all she wants is for

620
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: her kids to be happy, and he's like, well, I

621
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: just want to be a good son. Meanwhile, Zoe and

622
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 1: her mom are having a conversation about relationships and how

623
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 1: kath admires Zoe's independence, but also we all need other people,

624
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: and I wish you would learn to let people care

625
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: about you and not like close yourself off to everyone.

626
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 3: And you're like, sure, that's what you were trying to

627
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 3: do by forcing her to date a veterinarian, right.

628
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: Then Zoe gets an email from Kaz and Mamuna where

629
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: we don't know the whole message until Kaz shows up

630
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: for aid at his parents' house, where he reveals that

631
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: he and Maimuna are getting divorced because they don't want

632
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: to pretend anymore, and he also reveals that he has

633
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: invited his sister, Jamila and her husband and baby to

634
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 1: meet their family. The family finally embraces Jamila and her husband,

635
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: and then Zoe runs off to the treehouse and she's like,

636
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: come here, Kaz, and he's like, TI hei what And

637
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: she's like, let's kiss again in the treehouse, just like

638
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: our first kiss. And he's like hah okay, and then

639
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: the kiss.

640
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 3: I don't know why. I was so irritated that it

641
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 3: took them forever to kiss.

642
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: So long she keeps like cleaning in and then pulling back,

643
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: and then leaning in and pulling back, and it's like,

644
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: just kiss already, and then they do.

645
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 3: Anyways, at least they do and they live happily. Ever,

646
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 3: it's implied that they get buried I think, right, yeah,

647
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 3: by the credits, but they're.

648
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 4: Taking it slow. They're taking it slow. They just want

649
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 4: to get to know each other more. Really, I thought

650
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 4: they knew each other really well. But anyway, since childhood.

651
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, since childhood, right, And I like that because at

652
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 3: the end, you get in the credits, you get just

653
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 3: I don't know if it feels very like two thousand

654
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 3: and seven rom Cow where you're like, oh, it's just

655
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 3: like a bunch of kind of like Blueberry like where

656
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 3: are they now kind of things. And may Moona's back

657
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 3: and apparently maybe broke up with that person since she

658
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 3: was dating because she's like, I finished college, my parents

659
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: love me, SEEA, And I was like, yeah, good for her.

660
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: You go girl. So that's the movie. Let's take a

661
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: quick break and we'll come back to discuss. And we're back.

662
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 3: Where shall we start study? Is there anything that was

663
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 3: that stood out to you that you wanted to start with.

664
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 4: A lot of thoughts. I think they could have developed

665
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 4: Memuna's character a little more. I did not see that

666
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 4: change or evolution of who she was. Why was she

667
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 4: pretending to be the way she was during her skype gods?

668
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 4: And then in the end she says, my parents love me.

669
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 4: I'm a human rights lawyer. Well, if your parents love you,

670
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 4: you could have confided in them before getting married and

671
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 4: they would have been fine with it. So why take

672
00:40:58,440 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 4: that journey?

673
00:40:59,200 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 6: Like?

674
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 4: Why was documentary the trigger for everyone to realize what

675
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 4: was happening in their lives how she did their lives for?

676
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 4: So I have problem with that. I honestly like ayisha

677
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 4: ask character more, although she is problematic in some ways,

678
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 4: but then she's the matriarch and she is who she is,

679
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 4: and she has agency. I think she has more agency

680
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 4: than Zoe or Mamuona.

681
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 3: So too, like I think that honestly like and Kath

682
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 3: is such a goofy character, but I think that Ayisha

683
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 3: and Kath both sort of have more agency than the

684
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 3: younger women in the movie, which is interesting. I mean,

685
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 3: I wonder how intentional that was. As I was watching this,

686
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 3: I sort of because I think that the movie and

687
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 3: I know that, and I guess I didn't see the

688
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 3: interviews where Jemima con was saying that this was not

689
00:41:55,280 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 3: an autobiographical story, even though it reflected elements of her life,

690
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 3: where it's like a white documentarian marries into a Pakistani family.

691
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 3: Although you know, I guess that in the space of

692
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,720
Speaker 3: this movie, Zoe does not technically marry into a Pakistani family.

693
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 3: But as I was watching this, I feel like the

694
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 3: movie definitely overly focuses on Zoe in a way that

695
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 3: centers whiteness in a way that feels unlike, kind of

696
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 3: icky and unnecessary. And that might just be coming from

697
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 3: the writer's experience. But as I was watching this, because

698
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 3: they reference maybe it's because Emma Thompson's in it, and

699
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 3: they reference love actually at the beginning of the movie

700
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 3: by calling it love contractually. But I thought that this

701
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 3: movie would have worked for me more if it was

702
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 3: treated more as an ensemble cast versus putting Zoe and

703
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 3: causes relationship at the center of the movie because Saudia,

704
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 3: I totally agree. I think there were all of these

705
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 3: characters that I wanted so much more from, and I

706
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 3: would have loved to like cut away to especially. I

707
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 3: also wanted more Jamila. I was so interested in Jamila's

708
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 3: baxtone relationship with her mother. Yeah, and like it was

709
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 3: very like satisfying to see her accepted back into her

710
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 3: family at the end of the movie, but I want

711
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 3: to I mean I was just really interested in how

712
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 3: long have they been separated for? Like what was her

713
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 3: relationship with Ishauld like before that, Like, it just it

714
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 3: felt like there was it was a missed opportunity not

715
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 3: including Jamila as more than kind of a plot point.

716
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 3: And I think, yeah, she is more certainly more interesting

717
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 3: than Zoe as a character, And yeah, I just wish

718
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 3: that there was more because I think that there is

719
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 3: a really interesting spread of characters, but we don't really

720
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 3: get to know many of them.

721
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 1: And then Zoe making this documentary, which we've already said,

722
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: is like her coming into this subject matter with no

723
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 1: object activity. The whole time, she's just basically like mocking

724
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 1: causes him and his values, his cultural values, his family's values.

725
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: She's being like judgy and snarky the whole time about

726
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: it in a way that like feels very like racist

727
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: and xenophobic, where it's like, yeah, these these cultural practices

728
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: that are different than mine, Well I think they're ridiculous,

729
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: is her stance basically, But through making this documentary, she

730
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: reunites this family, like the sister Jamila comes back and

731
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: everyone embraces her at the end, and that's like kind

732
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: of the big climactic moment of the movie. And it's

733
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: implied that that only happens because of Zoe's like interference,

734
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 1: which makes it a white savior story.

735
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 4: Exactly it does. I'm so Gladkaitlny said that because I

736
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 4: keept thinking about it and I was watching Jemima Han's press,

737
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 4: like she did a lot of press around it, and

738
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 4: one of the recurring themes was, Oh, I just want

739
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 4: to reorient people to what arranged marriage really is. And

740
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 4: I'll be the first one to say that arranged marriage

741
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 4: has a lot of problems, like people seek partners within

742
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 4: certain casts, certain socio economic groups. Arranged marriage can be problematic,

743
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 4: but then there are redeeming elements to it, as is

744
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 4: with anything like dating apps, they can be very transactional,

745
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 4: and they can also be based on certain preferences that

746
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 4: people have around education, looks, whatever. And after I watched

747
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 4: the movie, I was like, Ah, are you really saying

748
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 4: that arranged marriage is not that bad? Because to me

749
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 4: it comes across as you know, what arranged marriage is,

750
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 4: or she calls it assisted marriage is a really shitty

751
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 4: way to find love. So yeah, I mean, I didn't

752
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 4: take this whole thing off arranged manages or assisted malagies.

753
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 3: I'm not that bad, right, which is like a very

754
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 3: judgmental way to present that, even if that's your opinion. Like,

755
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 3: I don't know. There are so many issues I had

756
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 3: with and it's so bizarre because I understand that the

757
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 3: writer is like, this is not an insert for me,

758
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 3: it's really hard to not see it that way I had.

759
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 3: I kind of had to have difficulty not inherently connecting

760
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 3: her to this character. But the ethos of the movie,

761
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 3: I mean seems to be it seems like this movie

762
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 3: is for like it seems more directed at white audiences

763
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 3: than anyone else, or Western audiences in general, people that

764
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 3: don't have an understanding of Pakistani culture. But it comes

765
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 3: at it in the I mean, I think that the

766
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 3: movie is coming at it from the same perspective that

767
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 3: Zoe the filmmaker is, where it's like, let's mythbust, Like, Okay,

768
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 3: we all agree that this seems bad, but what if

769
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 3: it's good? And you're like, that's not a neutral perspective

770
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 3: to come in on. That's super judgmental. And then the

771
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 3: the way that the movie ends, I feel like implies

772
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 3: that she was right all along, and yeah, totally so.

773
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 3: And I guess that the one I mean, there are relationships.

774
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 3: I know that causes brother oh what's his brother's name

775
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 3: for Ruke, I mean, he is very happy in his marriage,

776
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 3: and that is presented, and like, I appreciate that, but

777
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,760
Speaker 3: there's such non characters that it feels like it felt

778
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 3: more like a gesture than any actual interest in exploring,

779
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 3: Like you're saying, Saudia like this very complicated thing. And

780
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 3: in the same way where when Kause is first talking

781
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 3: with his parents about what qualities he's looking for in

782
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 3: a partner, there is a reference. It's like a joke

783
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 3: about colorism, and then but that's it, and then it

784
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 3: doesn't come back and there's like, I don't know the

785
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 3: way the way that this movie presented it, I feel

786
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 3: like I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Maybe

787
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 3: Jemima Kahn did collaborate. I mean I read about her

788
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 3: research process and it seems like she drew from her

789
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 3: own experiences. And then she said that she did fifty

790
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 3: interviews with people who had had assisted marriages or gone

791
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 3: through that process and then decided against it, which, Okay,

792
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 3: that's great, but it still feels like her perspective is

793
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 3: central to the way that Pakistani culture is presented.

794
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: Right, because if it's not clear to listeners. So, Jemima

795
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: Kahn is a journalist, documentarian. She's worked you know, as

796
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: an executive producer in TV quite a bit. This is

797
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: her first screenplay. But she is a white woman who

798
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: was married to Imram Khan for ten years in the

799
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: mid nineties to mid two thousands. She lived in Pakistan

800
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: with him. I think for those ten years. I believe

801
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: she converted to Islam when they got married, So.

802
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 3: She, I guess had done reporting on this topic in

803
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 3: the past.

804
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, right, but she is a white woman

805
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: with a with that perspective, like an outsider's perspective telling

806
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: the story, which like before I started doing research on

807
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 1: who made the movie, I just saw, you know, written

808
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: by Jemima Khn. I didn't know who that was, and

809
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: I assume because of her last name, oh, this is

810
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: probably a Pakistani writer. But then I was like, none

811
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: of this is adding up, Like why is this a

812
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 1: white savior story? Why is there's so much like scrutiny

813
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: toward this cultural practice? And then I looked up who

814
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: Jemima Khan was and I was like, oh, everything makes

815
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: sense now. The movie is directed by an Indian director,

816
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: a man named Shook Kapoor, but the artistic vision, as

817
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: far as like the narrative goes, was written by a

818
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 1: white woman, and I'm like, oh, this makes a lot

819
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: of sense.

820
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 4: You know. It's interesting. Jemima Hahn, first of all, is

821
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 4: revered in Pakistan because of, you know, the way she

822
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 4: almost adapted to a culture that was so alien to her,

823
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 4: and she's taken more nuanced approach to Pakistani politics Muslim identity.

824
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 4: Her work is pretty symbolic of the nuance that she adds.

825
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 4: After watching this movie, I was almost disappointed because I

826
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 4: felt like the person that she is and how explicit

827
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 4: she is about the nuances that she wants to explore

828
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,439
Speaker 4: through that identity, whether it's Muslim or Pakistani. She did

829
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 4: not bring that to this particular movie, And as you said,

830
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 4: I don't know if she was trying to appeal more

831
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 4: to the Western audience, but then the idea should have

832
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 4: been to give them something to ruminate over, right, to

833
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 4: have more conversations around, rather than ah, you know, this

834
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 4: is what was expected. So I honestly was disabbointed in

835
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 4: this movie.

836
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 3: That's yeah. I wasn't aware I had her. I mean,

837
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,879
Speaker 3: I'd seen some of her documentaries in the past, which

838
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 3: are all unrelated, but yeah, it felt I don't know,

839
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 3: and I know that I think she's fairly new to

840
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 3: the fiction space in general, but it's it felt like

841
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 3: a really poor application of write what you know, because

842
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 3: if there's like sure, do that, but like not when

843
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 3: your other objective is to responsibly portray a culture that

844
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 3: is not your native culture. I have a quote from

845
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 3: her that I think because I guess I was I

846
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 3: when I learned more about her, at least in the abstract,

847
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 3: because I didn't know what her reputation in Pakistan was.

848
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 3: But yeah, once I learned more about her, I was like, Okay,

849
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 3: has she said who this movie is for, and she

850
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 3: kind of has like she I think is willing to

851
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 3: and kind of has admitted that this movie is more

852
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 3: geared towards Western audiences to show Pakistani people in a

853
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 3: genre where they do not normally appear. So I have

854
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 3: a quote from her here where she expands on that.

855
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 3: I have a lot of thoughts about it, but we'll discuss.

856
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 3: She says. The question is what compelled you to focus

857
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 3: on the subject of assisted marriage as your first script?

858
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 3: She says, quote in part, the reason why I chose

859
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 3: the genre of rom com was because I'd never seen

860
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,879
Speaker 3: a rom com that features Pakistan, and I felt Pakistani's

861
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 3: I know, definitely feel their country and culture have been

862
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 3: somewhat unfairly demonized on screen. They feel they're always seen

863
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 3: as the terrorists, the butt of the jokes, the shady

864
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 3: ISI operatives or whatever. I understand they're a scary side

865
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 3: to Pakistan because I experienced that as well. But there

866
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 3: is also this incredibly beautiful side of that country and

867
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,439
Speaker 3: the people which I experienced when I was there, whether

868
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 3: it's the music, the food, the architecture, the color, the vibrancy,

869
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 3: the hospitality, all of that I felt was worth showcasing, unquote,

870
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,320
Speaker 3: So inside of that, it feels like she is basically

871
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 3: saying this is for Western audiences specifically. I still don't

872
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 3: agree with her approach at all. I think it's very

873
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 3: weird and reductive.

874
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: Totally.

875
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right, and to me, yes, you see some

876
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 4: smattering off redeeming qualities. Right, So when Kaz talks about

877
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 4: number forty seven and number forty eight are words abot

878
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 4: or when they joke about random checks at airports, I

879
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 4: get that. I've been full decide for a random check.

880
00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 4: I've lived in the US for over two decades. I

881
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 4: am citizen, and I know that happens, right, and it

882
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 4: is extremely frustrating. And to her defense, maybe she was

883
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 4: trying to just put it out there and let the

884
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 4: audience see it without being too preachy. But my problem

885
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 4: is not with what she showed in a subtle way.

886
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:25,240
Speaker 4: My problem is the overarching theme of this story, which

887
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,320
Speaker 4: to me, as Jamie and Caitlin both of you said,

888
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:35,320
Speaker 4: is reductive and extremely symbolic of the white savior narrative.

889
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's frustrating, especially because now I'm like, how does

890
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 3: this I don't know, I do. It seems like her

891
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 3: heart was in the right place when she was doing this. Yeah,

892
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 3: but like the character of Zoe, it seems like she

893
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 3: should have meaningfully included Pakistani people in the process of

894
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 3: making this because otherwise it seems I mean, it's a

895
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 3: very like I get it as when you're making something,

896
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 3: it is difficult to not make your perspective central to it.

897
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 3: But it's like if if you're aware of that, which

898
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 3: I would imagine she would be because she's such an

899
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:21,720
Speaker 3: accomplished documentary producer, then it is on you to bring

900
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 3: in people who can, you know, give the film what

901
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 3: it needs. And it seems like that wasn't really done

902
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,479
Speaker 3: here and whether her heart is in the right place,

903
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 3: which it seems like it very well. Maybe it's like

904
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 3: it's clear that like she is the main character in

905
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 3: a movie where she's claiming that that's not the goal

906
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:43,919
Speaker 3: of the.

907
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: Movie and that her like white western colonizer perspective is

908
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: actually the right one, and she's showing that by saying, yeah,

909
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: because the arranged or assisted marriage thing doesn't work. See,

910
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: it didn't work with Kaz and my Mona, it didn't

911
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: happen for Jamila, and she seems super happy with her family.

912
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 1: The characters who it does seem to work for are

913
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 1: either framed as antagonistic forces in Kaz's mom or they

914
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,399
Speaker 1: are characters who we barely get to know, such as

915
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: Faruk and his partner what was her name, Yasmin maybe anyway.

916
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 3: And they're they're also as a god and they're a

917
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 3: Harry Potter couple.

918
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true. Did either of you see the movie

919
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,439
Speaker 1: Polite Society that came out earlier this year.

920
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 4: I haven't. I've heard so many good things about it

921
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 4: and I have yet to watch it.

922
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 3: Same.

923
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: I loved it. It's so funny, it's so good, and

924
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: it tells a similar story in the sense that it's

925
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: like examining arranged marriages in specifically a Pakistani family who

926
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: live in the UK from the perspective you would want

927
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 1: to hear that from. Because it was written and directed

928
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 1: by Nita Minsor who grew up in a Pakistani Muslim family.

929
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: So there's no white lens, there's no like you know.

930
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: It's just like a very funny, smart, clever examination of

931
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: that and I highly recommend it to everybody.

932
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 4: I loved it interesting. You know, Saja Lali, who plays

933
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 4: Memuna in this film is a brilliant actress, a brilliant

934
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 4: Pakistani actress, and I feel like her character was not

935
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 4: developed or exploited the way she could have been. Right,

936
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 4: And I'm really eager to watch the other movie now

937
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 4: because at the end of the day, it's not a

938
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 4: judgment on love or arranged marriage. I think arranged marriage

939
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 4: in many ways is problematic and I'll be the first

940
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 4: one to see. But at the end of the day,

941
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,479
Speaker 4: what I took away from it is it's even more

942
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 4: problematic that people would believe it to.

943
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: Be based on watching a movie like this one.

944
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 4: What's to do with it?

945
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 3: Right, It's so confused because I feel like, I don't know.

946
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting that the writer is distancing herself

947
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 3: from the character of Zoe in this way. I feel

948
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 3: like it would be more honest and make more sense

949
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 3: and be more like more honest to the viewer to

950
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 3: say that like clearly for her assisted marriage for her

951
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 3: and her ex husband, like assistant marriage was not what

952
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 3: they wanted and like because that is their personal experience.

953
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 3: And I feel like, you know, it just feels interesting

954
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 3: that she chose she's choosing to distance herself from it.

955
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,919
Speaker 3: But it's like, no, it's that is a part of

956
00:58:54,160 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 3: like your marriage's story, why distance, because it makes it

957
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 3: at least contextualizes where she's coming from. But because it's

958
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 3: presented in this sort of like vacant space, it feels

959
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 3: very judgmental. And it seems like the tacit statement of

960
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 3: this movie is the Western approach to the current Western

961
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 3: approach to relationships is correct, which also feels confusing because

962
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 3: the movie kind of waffles on that as well, where

963
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 3: it sort of implied that James and Zoe's relationship is

964
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 3: a different kind of arrangement that Emma Thompson's character is

965
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:37,439
Speaker 3: trying to do. But that's kind of dropped also, and

966
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 3: like I wasn't quite sure what the movie was trying

967
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 3: to say there.

968
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 4: That's a great point, Jamie, because their arrangement could also

969
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 4: be considered and assisted something tot right. But at the

970
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 4: end of the day, look, marriage as an institution is problematic.

971
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 4: After a decade, all marriages sn whether arranged or not arranged.

972
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 4: I'm not getting arranged marriage, and I still feel marriage

973
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 4: is work in progress always, So maybe we should have

974
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 4: a movie about marriage as an institution. Yeah, and let's

975
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 4: let's really dissect that frist.

976
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, and I feel like this movie was in

977
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 3: an interesting position to say more about that, but then

978
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 3: kind of chickened out on the proper way to do

979
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 3: it because we also have Zoe's friends. We have like

980
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 3: her close friend who has the kids that she's won't

981
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 3: stop telling these horrible, boring stories too. It's convoluted. I

982
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 3: was like, God, if that was my aunt, I'd be like,

983
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 3: please just give me the iPad. Stop. That's what are

984
01:00:55,280 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 3: you talking about? But her nieces there there, I think

985
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 3: they're the kids of her friend.

986
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, Helena, who is sort of set up to be

987
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 7: it's just all nothing quite connected with me. Where it's

988
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 7: like they were trying she was trying to say something

989
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 7: there where it was like Helena and Harry. Okay, so

990
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 7: Harry is cheating on his wife and it's clearly taking

991
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,959
Speaker 7: a big emotional toll on her, and that I feel

992
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 7: like the movie presents as like a strike against the

993
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 7: Western approach to marriages, but that becomes confusing because we

994
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 7: know nothing about these.

995
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 3: Characters, and like, so I guess worse. I think it

996
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 3: like the implication there is like, well, they didn't have

997
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 3: an assistant marriage, so it was true love and so

998
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 3: true like I don't know. I just was confused at

999
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 3: like they were always different relationships presented in a very

1000
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 3: intentional way, but it didn't add up to anything that

1001
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 3: made cohesive sense to me.

1002
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 1: I also felt that the movie cast judgment on Zoe's

1003
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 1: character for doing anything besides like trying to be in

1004
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 1: a long term, committed relationship, because there are different scenes

1005
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: where she like goes to a club and goes home

1006
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: with a random guy and it's.

1007
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 3: Always happens every time, right.

1008
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: Also, the guy that she goes home with that she

1009
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: realizes is married I thought was the same guy as

1010
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: James the Vet because they look exactly alike.

1011
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 3: And I'm just like, she has a type.

1012
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 4: She's got a type, a type exactly because.

1013
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 1: All the guys we see like a montage prior to

1014
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 1: that earlier in the movie of various guys that she

1015
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: has gone on dates with who you know, end up

1016
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: not being the one, and they all look the same too,

1017
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 1: And I'm like, stop casting the same exact like white

1018
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: guy with light brown hair who's like the same height

1019
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 1: and build as every other guy in the movie.

1020
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 4: Now, what if Gemes and Zoey ended up together? That

1021
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 4: would be a Kese for assistant marriage right, it.

1022
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 3: Would it would have been Yeah, this movie comes down

1023
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 3: firmly any kind of assisted marriage is why bother. But

1024
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 3: here's this Harry Potter couple, so I guess you could

1025
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 3: get lucky, and you're just like, that's it feels. I

1026
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 3: don't know, and I have another I feel bad. I

1027
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 3: feel like I'm like roasting this writer. But I was

1028
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 3: really frustrated with her approach because I feel like another

1029
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 3: element that fruster did me about Zoe and kind of

1030
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,959
Speaker 3: puts me on the defensive about Jemima conn saying that

1031
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 3: this character is not a self insert Is that a

1032
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 3: lot of this is more of like just a general

1033
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 3: feeling I have about rom coms where I feel like

1034
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 3: rom coms that work the romantic leads have a good

1035
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 3: sense of humor about themselves, and that's sort of like

1036
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 3: why it feels relatable and easy to Zoe does not

1037
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 3: have a good sense of humor about herself at all.

1038
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 3: She is very defensive, not in the way that like,

1039
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 3: I don't know, this is like the same production this

1040
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 3: production company I was reading a lot of the coverage of,

1041
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:16,439
Speaker 3: like will this be the comeback for this legendary rom

1042
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 3: com production company? This is the same production company that

1043
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 3: released kind of every popular British rom com in the

1044
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 3: last twenty or thirty years. Like there, it's the same

1045
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 3: company that put out Bridget Jones and all these other movies.

1046
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 3: And like what works about a good rom com is

1047
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 3: the calm, and like the leads have a good sense

1048
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 3: of humor about like Okay, my love life keeps not

1049
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 3: working out, but it's not like a humorless vacuum in

1050
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 3: a way, Like Zoe takes herself way too seriously and

1051
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 3: so does.

1052
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 1: Cos she doesn't prop fall once. Well I need.

1053
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 3: Saying that though, I mean, but like it just feels

1054
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 3: like she and she and cause in different moments, but

1055
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 3: more so Zoe just feel very self important and judgmental.

1056
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 3: And I think Zoe is the center of that. I

1057
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 3: don't know, like there there was some rum I wasn't

1058
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 3: really feeling. The calm not.

1059
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:17,919
Speaker 1: A lot of calm. Yeah, So I don't quite even

1060
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: understand why Zoe and Kus end up together at the end,

1061
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 1: because they don't seem to have anything in common as

1062
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 1: far as like, yes, they're philosophies on love and romance

1063
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 1: and life in general. They have no shared hobbies except

1064
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 1: for table tennis, like why are they even together?

1065
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right, I didn't even think of that. That

1066
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 4: makes so much sense.

1067
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: Why the whole movie is them arguing about their philosophies

1068
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: on what a relationship should be.

1069
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:50,439
Speaker 3: Well, and I think it like overstates this. I mean,

1070
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 3: I guess because you were like, why are these two together?

1071
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 3: Which is how we felt. We felt a lot of

1072
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 3: round cooms. But like, I think it also like overstates.

1073
01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 3: I think the logic of this movie, and the logic

1074
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 3: of a lot of Western romance movies assumes a level

1075
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 3: of progressiveness to Western relationships. Will characterizing assisted marriage or

1076
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 3: any really Eastern relationship as regressive. But also the ethos

1077
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 3: to every single Hallmark movie that's ever come out is

1078
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 3: like you should marry your neighbor.

1079
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 1: And you're like, it's Christmas time and you have to

1080
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 1: get married now.

1081
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's Christian Christmas and you have to marry

1082
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 3: your neighbor whether you like them or not. And you're like, well,

1083
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 3: where is the where is the progressiveness? Like it's it's

1084
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 3: all you know, Like the subtext of it is very regressive.

1085
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 4: I don't see a happily ever off to want them.

1086
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 4: I really don't know.

1087
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 1: They're gonna butt heads about a lot of things.

1088
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 4: Like they are going to devot, they are going to

1089
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 4: divorce eventually as well.

1090
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 1: That's that's my deacon for sure. I think you know,

1091
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,560
Speaker 1: there will be problems with the in laws because one

1092
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 1: Cath is the queen of micro aggressions. It seems that

1093
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 1: I should resent Zoe taking an interest in her son

1094
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, the relationship is never gonna work out.

1095
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1096
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 3: That brings me back to like why I wish Jamila

1097
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 3: had been allowed to be an actual character in the movie,

1098
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 3: where it felt very like tie a bow on a

1099
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 3: rom com move to have Jamila come over one time

1100
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 3: and have her entire family immediately accept her, even though

1101
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 3: the stakes were set extremely high as to why she

1102
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 3: was no longer welcome. It just was like, I need

1103
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 3: to understand why this is happening other than there's five

1104
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 3: minutes left in the movie.

1105
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, truly. And something that I do like about the movie,

1106
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 1: at least on its surface, is you know I was

1107
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 1: talking before about how rom coms are usually not the

1108
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 1: genre for me, but for specific reasons like I'm excited

1109
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 1: by and I'm always on the lookout for rom comms

1110
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 1: that have a compelling reason that the two characters don't

1111
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: get together until the end. Because for many rom coms,

1112
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 1: the kind of the narrative vehicle or the narrative thrust.

1113
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:30,440
Speaker 3: You might say, Caitlin loves to say thrust, and I fucking.

1114
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 1: Get it's awesome. I hate so the narrative thrust is

1115
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: that there is something keeping the lovers apart for most

1116
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 1: of the movie. Now, historically, in a lot of rom coms,

1117
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 1: it's a very toxic or reductive reason. It's like one

1118
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 1: or both characters are lying to each other throughout the

1119
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:53,799
Speaker 1: whole movie, or there's some kind of like bet or deceit,

1120
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:57,640
Speaker 1: or like the woman is too focused on her magazine

1121
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: job and she can't make time for her her personal life,

1122
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 1: or there's something like trophy and exhausting like that.

1123
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 3: I kind of love rom coms for that, where they're like,

1124
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:09,679
Speaker 3: this job, well, this movie does it where it's like, yeah,

1125
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,640
Speaker 3: her job of documentary, which is looking at laptop and

1126
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 3: drinking red wine means that she can never be happy.

1127
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:26,439
Speaker 1: Sure, So I appreciate rom comms that subvert those tropes

1128
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:31,719
Speaker 1: or try to subvert them. And I feel like this movie, again,

1129
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:35,680
Speaker 1: on its surface, finds an interesting and compelling reason that

1130
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: the characters don't get together until the end, and it

1131
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:44,559
Speaker 1: is one that like, you know, there are tropes and

1132
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:49,440
Speaker 1: it is a lot of her scrutinizing his cultural values,

1133
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 1: but it is these cultural values that are like kind.

1134
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 4: Of premanding them to be together. Yeah, absolutely right.

1135
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 1: So I was like, Okay, that's interesting on its surface. Again,

1136
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 1: it's not executed very well, but I did at least

1137
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 1: appreciate that that the characters, although I would say that

1138
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: they're actually not honest with each other, because if they

1139
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 1: were honest with each other, Kaz would just be like, hey,

1140
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 1: I have a crush on you, and she'd be like

1141
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 1: I have a crush on you too. Should we kiss

1142
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the movie instead of at the end?

1143
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 3: Like all right, well, yeah, I think that that's like,

1144
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 3: I mean, we've talked about a bunch of issues as

1145
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:30,639
Speaker 3: bovie has, but one of them is like we should

1146
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:34,559
Speaker 3: believe that they really want to be together the whole time,

1147
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 3: or this narrative device is like far less effective, right,

1148
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 3: But yeah, Sadia, I agree with you. It's like I

1149
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 3: don't think that they want the same things in life,

1150
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:49,480
Speaker 3: and because also we don't really know what cause wants,

1151
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 3: like we just sort of he gives sort of a

1152
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 3: very generic like I'm a good guy. I want a

1153
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 3: lady that has a job or not. I want someone

1154
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:04,760
Speaker 3: who's nice or not mean. And you're like it's so vague,

1155
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 3: and then we know that she she's kind of like

1156
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 3: Liz lemoning a little bit and she's like, I you know,

1157
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 3: can women have it all? And you're like, I don't know.

1158
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 3: I don't know if you can because I don't know. Yeah,

1159
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:22,640
Speaker 3: like if if you want to tell the story, I

1160
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:24,600
Speaker 3: feel like you have to give us two characters that

1161
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:26,839
Speaker 3: It's like, I need these people together.

1162
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: I'm rooting for them. And at no point was I

1163
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 1: rooting for them to be together.

1164
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:35,720
Speaker 3: I wasn't anyway, they also weren't really rooting for them,

1165
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 3: like that was how I knew, or I was like, oh,

1166
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:40,040
Speaker 3: I don't. I guess I don't believe in this relationship

1167
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:43,680
Speaker 3: because you know that scene where they're texting and she

1168
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 3: almost sends don't get married tomorrow, and then she deletes

1169
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 3: it and involuntarily I was like, good, it's good that

1170
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:52,720
Speaker 3: she didn't send that. And I was like, well, I

1171
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 3: guess I'm not rooting for them.

1172
01:11:56,360 --> 01:12:02,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, does anyone have an anything else they'd like to discuss.

1173
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 3: I don't think so.

1174
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. My one last thing is just like a quick

1175
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:17,720
Speaker 1: overview on the parents' generation and how they're approaching various

1176
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 1: relationship thing like outlooks. And also kath being like best

1177
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:29,959
Speaker 1: friends with a con family but saying nothing but racist

1178
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 1: things about them the entire time, which is like pretty

1179
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:38,439
Speaker 1: boomer behavior generally speaking, but it makes you wonder, like

1180
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,719
Speaker 1: she seems to have been friends with them for many,

1181
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 1: many years, you think that she would scale back on

1182
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 1: her extremely offensive and reductive views about this family that

1183
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 1: she claims is like her best friends, but who knows.

1184
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:58,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's presented very in a way that I felt like,

1185
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 3: cut kathle out of slack. Also the cass Emma Thompson

1186
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:05,120
Speaker 3: you're like and you don't want me to like her.

1187
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 3: I know it's fair and I love her, but I

1188
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 3: think it's very presented like that's just Kath as if

1189
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 3: it warrants no examination beyond that's just Cath.

1190
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 1: Right, because you also have Zoe sort of calling her

1191
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 1: out sometimes but also only doing the bare minimum. She's

1192
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: letting a lot of shit slide. She's also saying some

1193
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 1: kind of weird things herself sometimes.

1194
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 3: Okay, that's something I had written down to you. I

1195
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:37,880
Speaker 3: was like, is kath as comically like xenophobic as she

1196
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:43,240
Speaker 3: acts just to make Zoe look less xenophobic in comparison?

1197
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 4: Maybe you're right, that sounds right, I would say, though,

1198
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:53,120
Speaker 4: with God's character, I can see somebody like her in

1199
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:57,719
Speaker 4: her generation age group saying all the things that she's saying,

1200
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 4: So I would expect that from somebody like cats.

1201
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:02,720
Speaker 1: It is super realistic.

1202
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 4: It is super realistic, right, So I think that's why

1203
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 4: I don't get mad at her as much, because I'm like, yeah,

1204
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 4: I could see somebody like saying things that she's saying

1205
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:15,879
Speaker 4: in this film, right, Sure.

1206
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 1: For sure, I just wish that Zoe had been more

1207
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:22,120
Speaker 1: active about like holding her mom accountable for all the

1208
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:25,719
Speaker 1: shit she was saying. But it's like, again, very bare

1209
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 1: minimum stuff that Zoe is doing.

1210
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 3: That's just cat.

1211
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:33,120
Speaker 1: And then for Kaz's parents when they're like, we already

1212
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:36,759
Speaker 1: alluded to this scene, but that moment when they're listing

1213
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:41,560
Speaker 1: off the criteria that they're wanting in a partner for him,

1214
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 1: I she was like, yeah, not too dark and long

1215
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 1: hair and soft spoken, which to me reads like hyper

1216
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 1: feminine there's an implication that they're only interested in someone

1217
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:58,840
Speaker 1: from like a similar class or like the same like

1218
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 1: soff because they're they seemed to be well to do.

1219
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:07,200
Speaker 1: And then the dad says, you know a woman who's

1220
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:10,640
Speaker 1: not too ambitious or too into women's lib And I

1221
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 1: was like, wow, yike, sir.

1222
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:17,040
Speaker 4: And you know what, I can again see somebody from

1223
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:20,160
Speaker 4: that generation in Pakistan saying all those things, not just

1224
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 4: that generation. I'm sure again arranged marriagers can be problematic,

1225
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 4: but I wish Kaz said something. I wish he intervened.

1226
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:32,639
Speaker 4: I wish he said something like, oh, this is so wrong.

1227
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 4: Why would you say all of those things? Right? He's

1228
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:39,439
Speaker 4: just sitting there quiet as if he doesn't have anything

1229
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:42,679
Speaker 4: to say. Yeah, And that really bothered me more than

1230
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 4: his parents saying all those things.

1231
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:45,519
Speaker 1: Totally.

1232
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I felt like that was I guess not in

1233
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 3: a good way. But one of the things that Zoe

1234
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 3: and Kaz had in comment was that Zoe very lightly

1235
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 3: pushed back on her parents prejudice, and so did Kaz.

1236
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:01,880
Speaker 3: And I feel like that was done as a reflexive

1237
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:05,519
Speaker 3: gesture by the filmmakers to be like, well, that's how

1238
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,800
Speaker 3: this generation would act, and this generation doesn't approve, but

1239
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 3: we don't see them actually do anything or meaningfully pushback

1240
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 3: about it, so it sort of ends up being like, well,

1241
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 3: it just felt like a kind of an empty gesture

1242
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:24,559
Speaker 3: to have them even react if there is no follow

1243
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 3: up or yeah whatever, Yeah.

1244
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:31,120
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that. Kez challenges Zoe in that one

1245
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 1: scene where she's like, how are we even different? And

1246
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:37,880
Speaker 1: he's like, well, you don't get asked where you're from

1247
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 1: and how often you go back to Pakistan all the time.

1248
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:42,680
Speaker 1: You get the privilege of being able to say that

1249
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 1: you're British not British born, like I have to say.

1250
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 1: You know, you're not expected to apologize on behalf of

1251
01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:51,880
Speaker 1: all brown people anytime there's a terror attack in the world.

1252
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 1: So he at least does challenge her, But I wish, yeah,

1253
01:16:56,600 --> 01:17:01,320
Speaker 1: there was like more pushback from the thirty two year

1254
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:05,640
Speaker 1: olds of this movie that and that scene, to me

1255
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 1: is one of the more powerful scenes in the movie

1256
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:12,880
Speaker 1: right because it really spoke to a lot of us

1257
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:16,599
Speaker 1: who've been through those situations right where we've been judged

1258
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:21,679
Speaker 1: for somebody else's actions, or we've been treated mistreated based

1259
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 1: on how some other people are acting or reacting.

1260
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:29,599
Speaker 4: So I think that really spoke to me, and I wish,

1261
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 4: as you said, he did more of that in a

1262
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 4: subtle way, because his dynamic with his parents would be different,

1263
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:39,720
Speaker 4: coming from an East Asian culture. He probably would be

1264
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:43,759
Speaker 4: more respectful or whatever. But he could still push back

1265
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:47,120
Speaker 4: on colorism. He could push back on how they were

1266
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:51,640
Speaker 4: objectifying women, that they were trying to upbrides, that they

1267
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:54,760
Speaker 4: were trying to look for him totally, which again is

1268
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 4: a bit disappointing.

1269
01:17:56,360 --> 01:18:03,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely anything else. Does this movie pass the Bechdel test?

1270
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 1: I think so, right at least between.

1271
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 3: It passes between Zoe and her mom a number of times.

1272
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 3: It doesn't pass between characters that I wish it did.

1273
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 3: I don't think it passes between Pakistani women at any

1274
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:22,080
Speaker 3: point in the movie really, which feels again just like

1275
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 3: if whatever I mean it. As we've discussed a million.

1276
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:27,920
Speaker 6: Times, the Bechdel test is like not the be all

1277
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:31,640
Speaker 6: end all of anything, but I do think it's instructive

1278
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:35,840
Speaker 6: where it's like, if it is a diverse movie and

1279
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:39,280
Speaker 6: includes a white family in a Pakistani family and it

1280
01:18:39,320 --> 01:18:43,280
Speaker 6: only passes the Bechdel test inside of the white family.

1281
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:47,800
Speaker 1: Not great, And that's the relationship dynamic that you get

1282
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 1: a lot more of screen time.

1283
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 3: Than those are the women that are being prioritized.

1284
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:58,639
Speaker 1: There are a few scenes where the grandmother is telling

1285
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:02,840
Speaker 1: her story of her marriage, and that's true, Aisha is

1286
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:05,599
Speaker 1: like translating and also kind of like talking to her.

1287
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 1: I think also maybe towards the end when the grandmother

1288
01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:14,639
Speaker 1: and Jamila interact, that could pass. But those are very

1289
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 1: brief scenes in a movie that you would think those

1290
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 1: characters would be interacting more.

1291
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:22,719
Speaker 3: And I guess I was also coming from the place

1292
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 3: of like talking about marriage. It is I thought, like

1293
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:28,879
Speaker 3: implied the yeah.

1294
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:32,000
Speaker 1: Right, marriage to a man, right, you're right.

1295
01:19:32,080 --> 01:19:35,600
Speaker 4: I think there are a couple of conversations between Eyeshine

1296
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 4: Calf as well, which is not within the same community.

1297
01:19:39,400 --> 01:19:44,639
Speaker 4: But those conversations about I guess food or culture are

1298
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 4: outside the realm of you know, marriage, dating boys, men whatever.

1299
01:19:50,360 --> 01:19:50,799
Speaker 3: Totally.

1300
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 1: Oh and it passes when Maimuna says beautiful documentary, so we.

1301
01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 3: Oh it okay, she's like that what I said.

1302
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:03,519
Speaker 4: But also yeah, that's the trigger point for her. That's

1303
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:06,760
Speaker 4: when she, you know, has all the power and she

1304
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 4: gains to tell everybody that she's not interested.

1305
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:15,560
Speaker 1: Yes, it's the documentary. The document the very judgy documentary

1306
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:20,400
Speaker 1: made by a white woman, empowers her to realize that's free.

1307
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:23,679
Speaker 4: What if the documentary was not made, then they would

1308
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:26,519
Speaker 4: be in this relationship forever, forever.

1309
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:31,200
Speaker 3: I kind of also love that the documentary canonically never

1310
01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 3: comes out like you're.

1311
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 6: Just like.

1312
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:41,479
Speaker 1: For the best, honestly for the best? All right, Well,

1313
01:20:41,479 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 1: moving on to the perfect metric on which to evaluate

1314
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: a movie, which is of course our nipple scale, where

1315
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:53,000
Speaker 1: we rate the movie on a scale of zero to

1316
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:57,920
Speaker 1: five nipples based on examining the movie through an intersectional

1317
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:03,800
Speaker 1: feminist lens. And I would give this honestly, I think

1318
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 1: it's gonna have to be like a split down the middle,

1319
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:11,519
Speaker 1: two point five, maybe three nipples. I wish I could

1320
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:15,639
Speaker 1: give it more because, as you said at the top, Sadia,

1321
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 1: it's a rom com that features a Pakistani family and

1322
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 1: that represents Pakistani people and Muslim people in a way

1323
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 1: that you know, Western movies rarely do, which is great,

1324
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:40,759
Speaker 1: But because of the lens that the story is being

1325
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 1: told through, it fumbles a lot and ends up just

1326
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:52,080
Speaker 1: saying like rather than like an objective examination of something

1327
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:56,240
Speaker 1: like an arranged or an assisted marriage, it's coming down

1328
01:21:56,400 --> 01:22:00,040
Speaker 1: as like with the same point of view as the

1329
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 1: main character, who is just being incredibly judgie and mocking

1330
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:10,040
Speaker 1: a lot of the time in a way that feels

1331
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:14,559
Speaker 1: like it there are racist undertones, Islamophobic undertones, and things

1332
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:16,400
Speaker 1: like that. So with that in mind, yeah, I think

1333
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:22,920
Speaker 1: I'll do two and a half nipples, and I will

1334
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:32,439
Speaker 1: give one to Maimuna, I'll give one to Jamila the sister,

1335
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:38,960
Speaker 1: and I'll give my half nipple to the grandmother, who

1336
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:43,679
Speaker 1: was like I had to ride off on a horse

1337
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:47,559
Speaker 1: that I was allergic to and was not really happy

1338
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:50,920
Speaker 1: about the whole thing. And then I don't know if

1339
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:56,679
Speaker 1: she is Aisha's mother or if she's wait, what's causes

1340
01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:59,960
Speaker 1: Dad's name? I think she's she is Ayisha's math Okay,

1341
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:05,479
Speaker 1: so like, yeah, her daughter is like mistranslating to be

1342
01:23:05,560 --> 01:23:08,240
Speaker 1: like no, it was an awesome experience full of love.

1343
01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:12,799
Speaker 1: So the grandmother gets my half nipple.

1344
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:15,599
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give it two and a half as well.

1345
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 3: I think that this movie, I mean we've talked about like,

1346
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 3: I think that this movie was an attempt. I want

1347
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:24,880
Speaker 3: to be so generous to the writer as to say

1348
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:27,439
Speaker 3: her heart is in the right place. I think it

1349
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 3: really could have benefited from a co writer, And it

1350
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:37,719
Speaker 3: seems like, even if this movie is a as she says,

1351
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:42,559
Speaker 3: like her attempt to be more inclusive and show Western

1352
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:46,000
Speaker 3: audience's a Pakistani family in this genre, which I think

1353
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 3: is a good instinct, and it's not even like she

1354
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:53,800
Speaker 3: is a completely illogical person to do that, but it

1355
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 3: felt like a collaboration would have sort of kept things

1356
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:01,160
Speaker 3: in check in a more responsible way, because I do

1357
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:05,120
Speaker 3: think that Pakistani families obviously should be included in all

1358
01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 3: genres of movie, including goofy rom coms like this one,

1359
01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 3: you know, goofy rom coms where there's no chemistry between

1360
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:19,400
Speaker 3: the leads. Everyone should be in those movies. Great, but

1361
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:23,440
Speaker 3: it did seem like if that is her goal strictly

1362
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:28,559
Speaker 3: having a white British woman write it, even with her

1363
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 3: connections to Pakistan, it doesn't totally make sense and it

1364
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:36,200
Speaker 3: doesn't totally come together for this movie. And on a person,

1365
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:38,280
Speaker 3: I mean, I just felt like there were so many

1366
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:41,280
Speaker 3: women in this movie who I was more interested in

1367
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 3: than the lead character, and it ended up being kind

1368
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:47,679
Speaker 3: of a frustrating experience of like, there is a lot here,

1369
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:53,560
Speaker 3: but the places the movie focuses are very pointed, a

1370
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:58,800
Speaker 3: very white and colonially centered and also boring, so kind

1371
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 3: of the worst of worlds in some ways. But I

1372
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:05,880
Speaker 3: do think, you know, I I hope you know. Years

1373
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:07,599
Speaker 3: down the line, this is viewed as kind of more

1374
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:11,519
Speaker 3: of a stepping stone movie towards a more inclusive rom

1375
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:15,800
Speaker 3: com landscape. This one was kind of a miss for me,

1376
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:18,920
Speaker 3: although it had its moments and I love my Muna

1377
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:23,400
Speaker 3: and Okay, so I'm gonna do two and a half nipples.

1378
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:27,599
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give one to Mymuna, one to Jamila, and

1379
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:32,599
Speaker 3: a half to Aisha. Three characters that I thought were

1380
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:35,040
Speaker 3: really interesting, and I wish that we had gotten to

1381
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:38,439
Speaker 3: see more of them outside of how they relate to

1382
01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:42,760
Speaker 3: cousin Zoe, who to me, were the least interesting characters,

1383
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 3: and that's why I'm like, they deserve each other. I

1384
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 3: didn't like them, you know.

1385
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:54,400
Speaker 4: For me, I am I'm still confused as to whether

1386
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:56,639
Speaker 4: I should do two or two and a half because

1387
01:25:56,680 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 4: I did have a lot of expectations from this movie

1388
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:04,080
Speaker 4: and I'm really disappointed. But I do agree that I

1389
01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 4: would give one to the grandmother. I wanted to know

1390
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:12,080
Speaker 4: more about her character and her backstory. Half to Aisha

1391
01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:17,360
Speaker 4: and half each to Memuna and Jamila, because even Memuna

1392
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:21,920
Speaker 4: at times was annoying because I didn't know where she stood.

1393
01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:25,639
Speaker 6: It was so.

1394
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:30,000
Speaker 4: Inconsistent and it bothered me. I was like, if she

1395
01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:33,200
Speaker 4: has this, you know, modern liberal family, and if she

1396
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 4: is studying to be a human rights lawyer, why why

1397
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:41,080
Speaker 4: does she pretend to be somebody else? There are so

1398
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:45,200
Speaker 4: many women in Pakistan who are comfortable expressing their agency,

1399
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:48,840
Speaker 4: especially those who come from families like Memuna's, and it

1400
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 4: just was mind boggling to me. They weren't consistent in

1401
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:56,120
Speaker 4: her characterization and that really bothered me.

1402
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 1: Well, Sadia, thank you so much for joining us. This

1403
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:03,920
Speaker 1: has been a treat. Come back anytime.

1404
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:07,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, bring us anything we love. We love it all.

1405
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:09,439
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. This was so

1406
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:10,080
Speaker 4: much fun.

1407
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:14,400
Speaker 1: Yay, Where can people check out your podcasts? Follow you

1408
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:16,479
Speaker 1: on social media, et cetera.

1409
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:23,600
Speaker 4: So podcasts Immigrantly and Invisible Heat are on every streaming platform.

1410
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:27,000
Speaker 4: They can follow me on Twitter at s w k

1411
01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 4: K and it's s w k KHN. And don't ask

1412
01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 4: me why I came up with that, because Sadia is

1413
01:27:34,240 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 4: a very common name and I couldn't find another handle.

1414
01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:44,400
Speaker 4: But You can also find immigrantly at immigrantly Underscore pod

1415
01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:48,879
Speaker 4: on Twitter and on Instagram at immigrantly pod Wonderful Amazing.

1416
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:53,400
Speaker 1: You can follow us at Bechtolcast on Twitter and Instagram.

1417
01:27:53,439 --> 01:27:57,440
Speaker 1: You can also scoot over to our Patreon aka maatreon

1418
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:00,760
Speaker 1: at patreon dot com slash bechtol Cast, where you get

1419
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:04,719
Speaker 1: two bonus episodes every month for only five dollars a month,

1420
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:08,280
Speaker 1: and it also gets you access to our back catalog

1421
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:12,320
Speaker 1: of one hundred and fifty bonus episodes.

1422
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:15,400
Speaker 3: You can also check us out if you want some

1423
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:19,360
Speaker 3: merch over at teapublic dot com slash v Bechtel Cast

1424
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:21,720
Speaker 3: for all your merchandising needs.

1425
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:26,640
Speaker 1: And with that, let's go into the treehouse and kiss.

1426
01:28:26,320 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 3: And take forever to kiss.

1427
01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:31,160
Speaker 1: Okay, bye bye