WEBVTT - Relevant Markets Content: KSS, 351, QQQ

0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:09.360
<v Speaker 2>I do have a bird update.

0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:11.720
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say, you texted me a picture of

0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.560
<v Speaker 1>your bird. Yeah, and you just like, without any sense

0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.479
<v Speaker 1>of irony, You're like, Fatspa's teen feathers are coming in.

0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:22.119
<v Speaker 2>So she's just foughts ban I think so, I mean see.

0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:23.720
<v Speaker 1>Thoughts, but like for purposes of this podcast, or do

0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:27.360
<v Speaker 1>you call him that? Like to your parents and in the.

0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:31.360
<v Speaker 2>Halls and walls of the Greifeld house, he is just bird.

0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:33.960
<v Speaker 2>And also we're saying he as if he's a boy,

0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:34.760
<v Speaker 2>but we don't know that.

0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:36.480
<v Speaker 1>But this front of the show Lackman.

0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, to the rest of the world, he's Fatspa front

0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:41.600
<v Speaker 2>of the show Bill Lackman. But I haven't explained the

0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:42.840
<v Speaker 2>joke to my parents.

0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:44.960
<v Speaker 1>Yet, so we explained it to the bird quietly.

0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:47.760
<v Speaker 2>I think I have said to him, your name is Bilackman,

0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:52.400
<v Speaker 2>but I don't think he's internalized that that was the

0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:54.360
<v Speaker 2>update though, that his teenage feathers are coming in.

0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:55.080
<v Speaker 1>Good him.

0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:58.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's super interesting. Hopefully I'm not the only one

0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:02.720
<v Speaker 2>who thinks so. And Starling's are juveniles when they first

0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:04.919
<v Speaker 2>grow their feathers, they're super brown. And kind of boring.

0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.000
<v Speaker 2>But in the later stages of being a juvenile, he's

0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.720
<v Speaker 2>still not an adult he or she, but they get

0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:15.560
<v Speaker 2>this like interesting polka dot pattern on their chest and

0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.600
<v Speaker 2>so it's growing in and patches the polka dots on

0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.080
<v Speaker 2>his chest. Yeah, he's super cute.

0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you'll know his gender because like they have

0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:25.480
<v Speaker 1>different plumage on their adults.

0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, So hopefully in the next couple months we should

0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.040
<v Speaker 2>know it'll be a gender reveal.

0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.080
<v Speaker 1>Are you gonna have a bird gender reveal party?

0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.520
<v Speaker 2>I think it's more he or she is throwing the

0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:41.160
<v Speaker 2>party for us, and the party is just very solely

0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:43.119
<v Speaker 2>overtime the feathers change.

0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.000
<v Speaker 1>This is making me realize I have another question, which is,

0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.760
<v Speaker 1>what will thoughts but romantic life be, like.

0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, none or I think right now it's none.

0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:53.920
<v Speaker 2>I would like to.

0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:57.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm settled down at a nice lady bird of us.

0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, you know, I don't know. I was thinking

0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.800
<v Speaker 2>it would be nice for thoughts but to have a

0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.640
<v Speaker 2>friend where my parents live in New Jersey. Unfortunately, it's

0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.840
<v Speaker 2>not that uncommon to find stranded baby birds, so maybe

0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:13.600
<v Speaker 2>that'll happen in the next few years.

0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Right, I assume like there's no prospect of like visiting

0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:22.160
<v Speaker 1>wild starlings chatting with thoughts like.

0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.920
<v Speaker 2>Setting him up with a wild bird. I don't know.

0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't know logistically how that would work. I don't

0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:31.720
<v Speaker 2>think there are like any starling stud farms either.

0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:37.160
<v Speaker 1>But hey, just run around the backyard right like indoor

0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:38.720
<v Speaker 1>bird or I don't know if.

0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.160
<v Speaker 2>He would come back, And I worry about him being

0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.760
<v Speaker 2>able to feed himself. He is. Oh another update. I

0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.400
<v Speaker 2>sort of got this one as interesting too. So I

0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:49.760
<v Speaker 2>was talking about how he only wants to land on humans.

0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:54.519
<v Speaker 2>So because he's in this largish half outdoor half indoor room,

0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:56.679
<v Speaker 2>and he had been in the cage and then we

0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:58.600
<v Speaker 2>would let him out for free flight, I made the

0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.919
<v Speaker 2>executive decision, let's just have him out all the time.

0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:03.720
<v Speaker 2>The cage doors are open. He can go in and

0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.679
<v Speaker 2>out as he pleases, because there's a hose and a

0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:08.880
<v Speaker 2>drain in the floor in that room, so we can

0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:10.560
<v Speaker 2>just clean it down whenever we need to.

0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:12.639
<v Speaker 1>With I need a like that.

0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:17.000
<v Speaker 2>With the introduction of free flight, he is much more

0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.520
<v Speaker 2>confident about perching on things other than humans.

0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, he's like flying around all day and needs.

0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes That's there's not always a human in the room

0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.440
<v Speaker 2>with him, So now he's more comfortable with the idea

0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.320
<v Speaker 2>that other objects are suitable purchase.

0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.760
<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to the Money's Love Podcast, your podcast

0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.800
<v Speaker 1>where you're talking about stuff related to money. I'm Matt

0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Levine and I read the money Stopt column for Bloomberg Opinion.

0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.560
<v Speaker 2>And I'm Katie Greifeld, a reporter for Bloomberg News and

0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:47.200
<v Speaker 2>an anchor for Bloomberg Television.

0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:50.640
<v Speaker 1>If that's he's going to be all burned updates, it's

0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:52.440
<v Speaker 1>just gonna be Yeah, but he's going to get a.

0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Microphone and he's just squawks. He does have different squawks

0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.360
<v Speaker 2>for different things, Like you can tell when he's talking

0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:04.640
<v Speaker 2>about atfs when you talk about ETFs, you know, or

0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:05.960
<v Speaker 2>memes for that matter.

0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:08.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, memes, memestocks are back.

0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.800
<v Speaker 2>We're back in twenty twenty one, the helcyon days.

0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.800
<v Speaker 1>I have to say, yeah, I'm not feeling it. Are

0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.680
<v Speaker 1>there people feeling it? Am I just old? Like? Are

0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:24.720
<v Speaker 1>the people on the internet like, oh yeah, this is

0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:26.600
<v Speaker 1>just as good as it was in twenty twenty one.

0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.600
<v Speaker 2>It kind of reminds me of Crypto, how Crypto had

0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.320
<v Speaker 2>this resurgence and we're back at all time highs and

0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.160
<v Speaker 2>then some and it just feels like way less people care.

0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:38.039
<v Speaker 2>And it feels kind of that way with the meme

0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:39.400
<v Speaker 2>frenzy that we're seeing right now.

0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Crypto is weirder because Crypto has a lot of different

0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.960
<v Speaker 1>like streams, like memestocks kind of have you know, one

0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.440
<v Speaker 1>stream which is people on the internet doing memes. That's true,

0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.520
<v Speaker 1>it just feels like less.

0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know, Well, we've seen it before.

0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:53.520
<v Speaker 1>You know, you've seen it before.

0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:55.480
<v Speaker 2>It was novel the first time.

0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.560
<v Speaker 1>Right, I mean, you know the point at memes Dice

0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:01.640
<v Speaker 1>is like people are on the internet talking about them

0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:03.680
<v Speaker 1>and then too they go up a lot, right, and

0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:06.479
<v Speaker 1>you really need the going up a lot to make

0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.440
<v Speaker 1>it that fun. And I feel like we're not quite there.

0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the Novelty in twenty twenty one was so

0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.919
<v Speaker 1>you know, like millions of people came to Wall Street

0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.039
<v Speaker 1>Bets for the first time, like it was creating millions

0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:21.680
<v Speaker 1>of accounts a day. Yeah, and that doesn't seem to

0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:23.760
<v Speaker 1>be happening here because like everyone who was going to

0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.040
<v Speaker 1>get into it get into it. I mean now that

0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.840
<v Speaker 1>fully realized. The first time I knew it, but I

0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.920
<v Speaker 1>didn't like fully internalize it. How much memes dogs are?

0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Can I do with short squeezes? It's so important to

0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:37.560
<v Speaker 1>every memestock thesis, like oh, the evil shorts are getting

0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.720
<v Speaker 1>squeezed right, Like it's it's like such a central part

0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.080
<v Speaker 1>of the story. And like one thing is that there

0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:48.159
<v Speaker 1>were learnings from twenty twenty one hedge funds, like don't

0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:52.840
<v Speaker 1>short a ton of crummy consumer focused stocks because you

0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.040
<v Speaker 1>might get carried out. And so if all the shorts

0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:59.360
<v Speaker 1>are like less short, then uh, you know, Bernhower was

0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.560
<v Speaker 1>writing about this newsletter that the shorts are going to

0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.479
<v Speaker 1>have smaller positions in this conference. So what that suggests

0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.960
<v Speaker 1>is like one, it's easier to do a short squeeze,

0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.360
<v Speaker 1>like you'll get kind of the meme stock pop because

0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.680
<v Speaker 1>as soon as a stock starts meming, all the shortsellers

0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:15.680
<v Speaker 1>are going to cover their positions. But then two, it's

0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:17.599
<v Speaker 1>not going to be as long lasting or as big

0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.440
<v Speaker 1>because they all just cover their positions immediately and there

0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.919
<v Speaker 1>won't be like the games up there with like months

0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:24.200
<v Speaker 1>where people were like, oh, it's going to be the

0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:25.960
<v Speaker 1>mother of all short squeze is the shorts still haven't

0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.920
<v Speaker 1>enforced that, and like that's just it's instantaneous now. Yeah.

0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:32.640
<v Speaker 2>It still does though, seem like maybe it's not sophisticated

0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:34.560
<v Speaker 2>hedge funds who are short in these stocks, like most

0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:36.479
<v Speaker 2>of the ones that went crazy this week, or Real

0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.840
<v Speaker 2>least Coals, which kind of led the meme frenzy this

0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.039
<v Speaker 2>specific week. I think it's forty eight percent of its

0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:48.039
<v Speaker 2>float was shorted. Yeah, I mean, well, I was thinking

0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.640
<v Speaker 2>about that list that you asked chat gibt for or

0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:55.200
<v Speaker 2>the chat GBT produced for you, and one of it was,

0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, the company needs to be unloved or not appreciated.

0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:00.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, So I asked chat gbt like it's the

0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.520
<v Speaker 1>next caravan and it's the next hundred bagger, and it

0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.280
<v Speaker 1>gave me this kind of memi answer. Yeah, it was

0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.040
<v Speaker 1>like it needs to have a heavy short interest and

0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.680
<v Speaker 1>be like unloved or underappreciated by the market. And that

0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:13.720
<v Speaker 1>is kind of that's it.

0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:17.680
<v Speaker 2>That's like it felt like that was the most important thing.

0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.360
<v Speaker 1>Or it's a sense of resentment. You need to be

0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:21.880
<v Speaker 1>like mad at you need to have.

0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.160
<v Speaker 2>A chip on your shoulder. Yeah, so that goes hand

0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.000
<v Speaker 2>in hand with the you know, heavy short interest that

0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.680
<v Speaker 2>this is you're going to put them in the same line.

0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, it's like there's like technical reasons that everyone

0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:36.040
<v Speaker 1>could hate US stock and it could not be heavily

0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:37.920
<v Speaker 1>shorted because it's like really hard to borrow. But now

0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:39.640
<v Speaker 1>in general, that's those are the same thing.

0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Something that I appreciated though, about the fact that we're

0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.160
<v Speaker 2>having this conversation in twenty twenty five was that it

0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:49.520
<v Speaker 2>dispelled at least two myths that were part of the

0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:54.640
<v Speaker 2>conversation in twenty twenty one. The first being that the

0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:56.920
<v Speaker 2>activity that we saw back then was all fueled by

0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.960
<v Speaker 2>stimulus checks, you know, the stimulus checks that the govern

0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:01.920
<v Speaker 2>and had helicopter across everyone.

0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:04.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know. That totally dispels that met I mean,

0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.680
<v Speaker 1>like some of the stuff I've read about this meme

0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:09.480
<v Speaker 1>stock thing is like there's been enough of a stock

0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.040
<v Speaker 1>rally to create kind of a wealth effect, and like

0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.000
<v Speaker 1>the snameuless checks are another form of that.

0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.000
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I agree, Like, yeah, that could have been

0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.760
<v Speaker 2>true in any time. That's right, except for I guess

0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:20.960
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty two and everyone.

0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.080
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I mean, no, you're right, it's not the

0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:24.200
<v Speaker 1>stimulus checks, and.

0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.600
<v Speaker 2>The wealth effect I think has somewhat been eroded by inflation.

0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.160
<v Speaker 2>The fact that Okay, stocks have gone up, but it

0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.719
<v Speaker 2>so have the prices on everything else. I was in

0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:36.880
<v Speaker 2>a grocery store and Hoboken and there were these like

0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.839
<v Speaker 2>probably looking college kids and they were complaining about the

0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.959
<v Speaker 2>price of like produce. I was like, that's so interesting,

0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.559
<v Speaker 2>Like it's just so much in just everyday conversations that

0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.040
<v Speaker 2>you stumble across people complaining about how expensive everything is.

0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:52.559
<v Speaker 2>So I think the wealth effect is out there, but

0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:54.920
<v Speaker 2>I think it's less so. The other myth that it

0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:59.800
<v Speaker 2>dispelled was that the me mania was just a byproduct

0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.719
<v Speaker 2>of zero interest rates. That is very much not the

0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:03.320
<v Speaker 2>case right now.

0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's fair, right. Another thing that you were just

0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:10.000
<v Speaker 1>learning it was like, it's not an isolated phenomenon, right,

0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:11.880
<v Speaker 1>It's not just like it has happened once and then

0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.040
<v Speaker 1>people like learned from it. Like I think that what

0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.400
<v Speaker 1>people learn from it is like it works, right, It's

0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:18.120
<v Speaker 1>like a good game.

0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:19.559
<v Speaker 2>It's a good game.

0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.280
<v Speaker 1>Why not make a stock triple? And you know the

0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:23.800
<v Speaker 1>course of a few days.

0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Also, I know you explicitly said it's not investment advice,

0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:29.960
<v Speaker 2>but I know that so many people after reading your

0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.599
<v Speaker 2>column must have for fun, gone to chat GBT and

0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:33.800
<v Speaker 2>asked what the next carbon is?

0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, like right, I wrote, like a reader

0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:39.599
<v Speaker 1>emailed me to be like I aske chat GPT and

0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:41.280
<v Speaker 1>that carbon I was, and it told me open Door,

0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.360
<v Speaker 1>So I bought open Door and look at me right.

0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:47.880
<v Speaker 1>And I don't get the sense that what has happened

0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.959
<v Speaker 1>in the last week or two is mainly or like

0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:56.800
<v Speaker 1>largely AI driven, Yeah, but it does feel like in

0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:00.800
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty one there was this like coordination mechanism where

0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:05.000
<v Speaker 1>people who wanted to buy Mimi stocks and like have

0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.520
<v Speaker 1>stocks that go up a lot, like would go to

0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:10.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, social media, so they'd Reddit mostly right Wall

0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.040
<v Speaker 1>Street paths, and they'd like meet their friends there and

0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:14.880
<v Speaker 1>their friends would talk about what stocks would go up,

0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.160
<v Speaker 1>and they'd all kind of like coordinate around the stocks

0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.000
<v Speaker 1>that they wanted to go up. And like, in some

0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.679
<v Speaker 1>ways it feels like AI, which is like trained on Reddit,

0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:25.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, has like found a way to abstract that

0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:27.719
<v Speaker 1>where now, if you want to find the next to

0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.840
<v Speaker 1>Mimi stock that will go up a lot, your instinct

0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:32.400
<v Speaker 1>might not be to go to Reddit and ask the

0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:34.520
<v Speaker 1>people there. Your instinct might be to go to chat

0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.640
<v Speaker 1>chapt and ask chat chapt and chat GPT might tell you, right,

0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:39.400
<v Speaker 1>it might tell you something that's kind of similar to

0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:41.800
<v Speaker 1>a reddit or would tell you I think that's an interesting,

0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.040
<v Speaker 1>like new vector for meme stocks to happen. And yeah,

0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.120
<v Speaker 1>it's like you don't need anyone else on Reddit pumping

0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.720
<v Speaker 1>the stock because like our AI tools have now been

0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.200
<v Speaker 1>trained on that kind of meme stock, thinking.

0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I hadn't heard the idea that lllm's are just

0:10:58.080 --> 0:10:59.560
<v Speaker 2>a blurry jpeg of the Internet.

0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.240
<v Speaker 1>That's a ten Chang's headline that I love that.

0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:04.679
<v Speaker 2>I love that I hadn't read that piece. I will say,

0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:09.520
<v Speaker 2>reading your music's on that just made me more existentially

0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:14.240
<v Speaker 2>worried about humanity because I don't think that people should

0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:19.880
<v Speaker 2>be taking advice from Reddit or the blurry sess thing

0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.040
<v Speaker 2>that's produced Reddit, right.

0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean Alex balk used to say the first rule

0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:26.880
<v Speaker 1>of the Internet is the things you hate about the

0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Internet or the things you hate about people. When you

0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:31.720
<v Speaker 1>say people shouldn't be taking advice from Reddit, you're saying

0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:35.120
<v Speaker 1>people shouldn't be taking advice from people like AI is

0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:40.360
<v Speaker 1>a distillation of Yes, the wisdom and the foibles of

0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.880
<v Speaker 1>people right of the masses, Yeah, of something of some

0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.440
<v Speaker 1>subset of people. Yeah, the people who are on Reddit,

0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:51.120
<v Speaker 1>not only but also them. Yeah. Right, Like used to

0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.600
<v Speaker 1>write this, Like if you had asked someone one hundred

0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.160
<v Speaker 1>years ago what stocks should I buy? Or like how

0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.439
<v Speaker 1>do stocks go up? They probably have said something like

0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:01.199
<v Speaker 1>stock go up because a lot of people want to

0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.240
<v Speaker 1>buy them. It's like fairly straightforward. I think if you

0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:06.360
<v Speaker 1>ask people fifty years ago what stocks will go up,

0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.000
<v Speaker 1>they would say things like stocks reflect the expected value

0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.959
<v Speaker 1>of future cash flows and true stocks that will go

0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.600
<v Speaker 1>up are the ones that have good businesses that are

0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:17.320
<v Speaker 1>undervalued by the market or something right.

0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:19.240
<v Speaker 2>Makes sense, And I think if you asked.

0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:20.679
<v Speaker 1>Today, the answer is the stocks that people want to

0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.440
<v Speaker 1>buy are the ones that go up. Right. Yeah, there's

0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.880
<v Speaker 1>this like pseudo science of investing based on fundamental analysis

0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:29.079
<v Speaker 1>that kind of ruled for fifty for you know, seventy

0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.640
<v Speaker 1>five years, and that now like has received a little

0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.079
<v Speaker 1>bit and been replaced by ah, whatever people want to do,

0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.400
<v Speaker 1>what they're going to do, right, And like, in some

0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.280
<v Speaker 1>ways we've had like new technologies to distill and like

0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:42.839
<v Speaker 1>amplify whatever people want to do they're going to do,

0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.640
<v Speaker 1>and those technologies include the Internet and now AI. But

0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:52.120
<v Speaker 1>like In some ways it's frustrating because things don't have reasons,

0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:54.160
<v Speaker 1>but in other ways it's like that's how it should be.

0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.880
<v Speaker 1>It's just like investing is an empirical science. Like if

0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:58.600
<v Speaker 1>the stocks go up, it's because the stocks went up.

0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:00.880
<v Speaker 1>There's not like some axiomatic that will tell you why

0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:02.680
<v Speaker 1>thyes will go up. It's like you have to sort

0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:03.600
<v Speaker 1>of know what people are thinking.

0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.280
<v Speaker 2>I do kind of love that. Every time this happens.

0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.599
<v Speaker 2>You know, there's a set of serious people who have

0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:12.679
<v Speaker 2>to engage with it and like try.

0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.319
<v Speaker 1>To Am I one of them? Not really, No, No,

0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:17.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm talking more about like I lost my mind the

0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:19.680
<v Speaker 1>last night that happened, but now I have like zen.

0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about more about like cell side sure, and

0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.119
<v Speaker 2>like you know, single.

0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.439
<v Speaker 1>Stock anlysts, you really like live in an ecosystem of

0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.680
<v Speaker 1>like stocks reflect the present value of their future cash.

0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's your bible. Yeah, your whole job is predicated

0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:35.640
<v Speaker 2>on that.

0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.079
<v Speaker 1>You have like a little fundamental model.

0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.719
<v Speaker 2>It's really right, It's precious. There was a note from

0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.880
<v Speaker 2>Barclay's talking about how to engage with it. They said

0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:48.040
<v Speaker 2>that one way you can hedge is like through a

0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.719
<v Speaker 2>dispersion trade of sorts, in this case, using options to

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.160
<v Speaker 2>bet on a basket of meme stocks that will continue

0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.000
<v Speaker 2>to be far more vital than the s and P

0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.920
<v Speaker 2>five hundred. Those wanting to take a more directional bet

0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.960
<v Speaker 2>on the frothiest company they can buy puts that would

0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.640
<v Speaker 2>benefit if he shares reverse course, which I don't know.

0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.560
<v Speaker 2>I just feel like the safest thing that anyone could

0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:09.840
<v Speaker 2>do is just not short.

0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:11.920
<v Speaker 1>Things, right, I mean, like, I think the idea of

0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:16.120
<v Speaker 1>buying putsas like you capped your Yes, you could lose

0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:17.960
<v Speaker 1>that much money, but no more.

0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:19.800
<v Speaker 2>Your losses aren't infinite.

0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Right, It's the safest way to short meme stacks. But no,

0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 1>I agree with you, Like I would not personally wake

0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:27.400
<v Speaker 1>up and see a memestack mania and be like, oh

0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.760
<v Speaker 1>I gotta betty ends these. That's on that good use

0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.040
<v Speaker 1>of my time. But I'm not a professional investor and

0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:34.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm not a research channelist or.

0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Even before you get to that point, you know, if

0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 2>you don't want to get your face ripped off on

0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:42.080
<v Speaker 2>a company that you were shorting, maybe just don't short it, right, Yeah,

0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:43.880
<v Speaker 2>no investment advice.

0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.200
<v Speaker 1>No, I wouldn't. But I you know some people, some

0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.800
<v Speaker 1>people you know their job is to make correct market calls,

0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.080
<v Speaker 1>and other people their job and I symbolize with the

0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 1>research channeists, because other people their job is to create

0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:01.960
<v Speaker 1>relevant markets related content. And when there's a memestock behavior,

0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.720
<v Speaker 1>you're like, well, what memestock content am I going to produce?

0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:08.640
<v Speaker 1>And I know that I know that difficulty. Well, sympathize

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.960
<v Speaker 1>with anyone else who has to create memes like related content.

0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:29.040
<v Speaker 2>I want everyone to know that this was your idea.

0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.280
<v Speaker 1>I know. I keep pushing ETFs, I know, and I

0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:33.360
<v Speaker 1>keep sayings, I.

0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Don't know if anyone wants to listen to it. This

0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:36.320
<v Speaker 2>was Matt's idea.

0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:37.560
<v Speaker 1>I love these ETFs.

0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, three five three five one ETFs three fifty one's yeah.

0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.960
<v Speaker 1>So one way to understand exchange traded funds is that

0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.000
<v Speaker 1>they're exchange traded funds and they have nice like liquidity properties.

0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.560
<v Speaker 1>But the real way to understand ETFs is that they

0:15:55.600 --> 0:16:00.960
<v Speaker 1>are tages. Yes, and in particular, I learned that if

0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.200
<v Speaker 1>you buy a mutual fund like you annually pay capital

0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.120
<v Speaker 1>gains taxes on like the funds trading activity as whereas

0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.280
<v Speaker 1>if you buy an ETF you do not. Because ets

0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.200
<v Speaker 1>have found a way to make all of their trading

0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.160
<v Speaker 1>both the meet redemptions and to like change their positions.

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:17.920
<v Speaker 1>They found a way to make all of their trading

0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:23.240
<v Speaker 1>not a tax realization event. And this involves like in

0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.880
<v Speaker 1>kind creations and redemptions. That involves like doing big heartbeat

0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:30.760
<v Speaker 1>trades with like authorized participants. It's a whole ecosystem. But

0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:32.400
<v Speaker 1>the way it works is the result of it is

0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:33.240
<v Speaker 1>that you don't pay taxes.

0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, you get to decide one you want to take

0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:36.800
<v Speaker 2>the tax hit.

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:38.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you buy an ETF, this is not one

0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.440
<v Speaker 1>hundred percent try, but this is you know, largely true direction.

0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:43.720
<v Speaker 1>If you buy an ETF, you do not pay any

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:45.800
<v Speaker 1>taxes until you sell the ETF, which is not true

0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:47.600
<v Speaker 1>of mutual funds. Are mutual funds you pay tax every

0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 1>year and the older forever. But with an ETF, you

0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.280
<v Speaker 1>don't pay taxes until you sell the ETF shares and

0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.720
<v Speaker 1>then gets wrapped up in the ecosystem of like you

0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.160
<v Speaker 1>buy an asset, you defer taxes forever. You bar against

0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:01.360
<v Speaker 1>the asset if you need to. Eventually you die, your

0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.120
<v Speaker 1>airs get stepped out basis and like no one ever

0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.040
<v Speaker 1>pays the tax, but at least you defer the tax.

0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:06.919
<v Speaker 1>So even if you saw you might have to. If

0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.280
<v Speaker 1>you sell the thing, eventually you pay taxes, and so

0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 1>that's really good. And it's like, you know, if you

0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:12.800
<v Speaker 1>own like an S and P five hundred ETF, it's

0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:14.280
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more tax efficient than if you own

0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.639
<v Speaker 1>an SMP five hundred mutual fund because they're trading your

0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:21.320
<v Speaker 1>redemptions whatever. But like, like whatever, it's not a huge

0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:23.480
<v Speaker 1>impact on your life to pay those capital in sizes.

0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Where it's really interesting is if you can use that

0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:32.760
<v Speaker 1>to wrap other stuff. And so I think and so

0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:34.919
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about like the Bloomberg's just teamed to lead

0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.440
<v Speaker 1>you write a big article about these these three but

0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.320
<v Speaker 1>like directionally, the idea is you worked at like a

0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.240
<v Speaker 1>tech company, you got a lot of stock early on,

0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.160
<v Speaker 1>and so your stock has a basis of roughly zero

0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:49.959
<v Speaker 1>and it's now worth roughly one hundred million dollars. Does

0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:51.240
<v Speaker 1>seem like some of these trades are for like one

0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.359
<v Speaker 1>hundred million dollars, And so you have a lot of

0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.280
<v Speaker 1>the stock and if you sell it, you'll have tens

0:17:56.280 --> 0:18:00.159
<v Speaker 1>of billions of dollars with capital against taxes. And what

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.080
<v Speaker 1>you do is someone comes to you and like I

0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.679
<v Speaker 1>will build an ETF for you, and you PLoP your

0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.240
<v Speaker 1>stock into the CTF that it is custom built for you,

0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:12.320
<v Speaker 1>and then the ETF does trades to get of that

0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.639
<v Speaker 1>stock and replace it with like, you know, the S

0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.960
<v Speaker 1>and P five hundred, and then you are left with

0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 1>S and P five hundred and you don't pay any

0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.560
<v Speaker 1>taxes deferred taxes. You have zero basis in the S

0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.240
<v Speaker 1>and P five hundred, but you've deferred taxes. You've sold

0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.119
<v Speaker 1>out of your giant concentrated position in your employer stock

0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.960
<v Speaker 1>and replaced it with like a nice diversified index fund

0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:34.760
<v Speaker 1>without paying taxes, which is a really neat trick. Yes,

0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.439
<v Speaker 1>I'm like oversimplifying. There's actually like rules about the original

0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:40.480
<v Speaker 1>contribution has to be kind of diversified, so you can't

0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.000
<v Speaker 1>just literally PLoP all of your employers stock and nothing

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:44.879
<v Speaker 1>else into it. But you can do it.

0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:46.440
<v Speaker 2>We've talked about swap funds on this.

0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.040
<v Speaker 1>This is like a better swap fund. You don't need

0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.439
<v Speaker 1>other people, you just do it with your stuff. Historically,

0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:55.159
<v Speaker 1>a swap fund was like ten people get together and

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:56.440
<v Speaker 1>they PLoP their stock in and then.

0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:57.760
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't know, ten people.

0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:01.080
<v Speaker 1>Firstified pool of like each other stocks. This is like

0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:03.359
<v Speaker 1>we just boot boom. You're into the S and P

0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:05.960
<v Speaker 1>five hundred so much clean. It is like a swap fund.

0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:06.879
<v Speaker 1>It's a similar idea.

0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:09.960
<v Speaker 2>So this kind of blows.

0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.840
<v Speaker 1>INTF form because you get the ability to diversify by

0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:15.920
<v Speaker 1>doing heart beats. In the article, someone calls it a

0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:17.879
<v Speaker 1>black hole for capital gain size perfect.

0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:18.879
<v Speaker 2>It's like descriptions.

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.480
<v Speaker 1>It's just it's just like a solution. You don't have

0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.359
<v Speaker 1>to it's legal. It's legal.

0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Sure, it's legal, and I want to. I think it

0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:29.880
<v Speaker 2>was a lawyer that Justina interviewed for the piece who

0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.960
<v Speaker 2>said that he's worked on hundreds of these or something

0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.000
<v Speaker 2>of that magnitude, right, and like.

0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.800
<v Speaker 1>It's hundreds, it's not millions. Yeah, because like you need

0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.440
<v Speaker 1>a certain amount of money to make this work. This

0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.200
<v Speaker 1>is not free. You need some advisor. Do you need

0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.520
<v Speaker 1>an ETF issuer to do a white label ETF for you?

0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.639
<v Speaker 1>So it's expensive. If you have one hundred million dollars

0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.560
<v Speaker 1>of zero basis stock in your employer, like it's worth

0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 1>it because you're saving twenty million dollars with capital inside.

0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.639
<v Speaker 1>If you have like you know, you bought some Tesla

0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.160
<v Speaker 1>a few years ago and now you have a million

0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.040
<v Speaker 1>dollar Tesla position with like a basis of like five

0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.879
<v Speaker 1>hundred thousand dollars, you're probably not going to do this.

0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:13.439
<v Speaker 1>But one thing that I have talked about on this.

0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.600
<v Speaker 2>Podcast is I think have I also talked about it.

0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.480
<v Speaker 1>We've talked about it, right, I have like advocated that

0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:23.240
<v Speaker 1>like eventually everything will be an eaty, Like everything, every

0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.920
<v Speaker 1>product will be etfized, and like one thing that means

0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:30.520
<v Speaker 1>is like there will be automation and costs will come

0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:32.920
<v Speaker 1>down so that if you're just like I want to

0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.399
<v Speaker 1>do an ETF of this thing, like you'll push a

0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:38.800
<v Speaker 1>button and it'll charge you like ninety five dollars and

0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.639
<v Speaker 1>you'll get the ATF. And like when that happens, no

0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:43.840
<v Speaker 1>one will have to pay capital gains taxes on their

0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:45.440
<v Speaker 1>stock because everyone will be able to do this.

0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.600
<v Speaker 2>And then we'll find out some way that this is illegal,

0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:49.359
<v Speaker 2>Like it'll become.

0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.000
<v Speaker 1>One will be like, well we should stop that. It's

0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:55.040
<v Speaker 1>not like obviously this should work, right, I mean yeah,

0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.600
<v Speaker 1>So the trade that they do is called a heartbeat, right,

0:20:57.680 --> 0:20:59.199
<v Speaker 1>Like the idea is that you're an ETF, you want

0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:02.400
<v Speaker 1>some concentrated stock, you don't pay taxes on in kind

0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.520
<v Speaker 1>creations and redemptions. So if someone brings you a basket

0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.879
<v Speaker 1>of your stock, if they bring you a basket of

0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.120
<v Speaker 1>the underlying shares and you give them ETF shares, that's

0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:12.760
<v Speaker 1>not a taxable transaction or vice versa. And so what

0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:16.040
<v Speaker 1>they do is they have special baskets where basically, you know,

0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.440
<v Speaker 1>a Jane Street or a bank or somebody will go

0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:22.120
<v Speaker 1>to an ETF. They'll bring in the stuff the ETF wants.

0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:24.440
<v Speaker 1>They'll give them the S and P. Five hundred, they'll

0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.119
<v Speaker 1>get back ETF shares. They'll wait like a day, and

0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.280
<v Speaker 1>then the next day they'll hand back the ETF shares

0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:31.560
<v Speaker 1>and take out whatever the ETF doesn't want. So it's like,

0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.240
<v Speaker 1>these are not taxable transactions. Yeah, but they're weird transactions.

0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:38.560
<v Speaker 1>They're not in the full underlying basket of the ETF.

0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:40.840
<v Speaker 1>They're in like the specific stuff that ETF does he

0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:47.480
<v Speaker 1>doesn't want, And they're not done because the counterparty wants

0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:49.160
<v Speaker 1>to be an investor in the ETF. They're done because

0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:50.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, the ETF is a just thing. It's training.

0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:54.400
<v Speaker 1>I first learned about this in twenty nineteen when Bloomberg

0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:56.399
<v Speaker 1>had a big article about heart beats and.

0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:58.040
<v Speaker 2>A seminal piece or a.

0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Seminal piece, and they were sort of like this really

0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.400
<v Speaker 1>be legal, and you know, my view was like, sure

0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:05.399
<v Speaker 1>it should be legal. ETFs doesn't pay taxes. But now

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.000
<v Speaker 1>it's like people have like learned from this mechanism that

0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.000
<v Speaker 1>they can just get rid of all taxes. And then

0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:13.080
<v Speaker 1>it's like, yeah, you know, someone might look at this

0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:15.359
<v Speaker 1>and say, hey, we should close that loophole.

0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:19.280
<v Speaker 2>That's the thing, Like the notion of a heartbeat is

0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:23.520
<v Speaker 2>pretty well socialized at this point, but like these individualized

0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.520
<v Speaker 2>heartbeat ETFs. The fact that these ETFs only exist to

0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:30.600
<v Speaker 2>do this because you see heartbeat trades once a quarter

0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:32.240
<v Speaker 2>in some of the biggest CTFs out.

0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:34.359
<v Speaker 1>There, right because they're index funds. The index changes, and

0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:35.720
<v Speaker 1>so they have to get rid of some stocks and

0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:37.480
<v Speaker 1>get those talks and like you heartbeat that away so

0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:41.560
<v Speaker 1>you don't pay taxes. It's not obvious that ETF holders

0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:43.840
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't have to pay taxes on their index rebalancing, but

0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:44.720
<v Speaker 1>like everyone's fine with that.

0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.800
<v Speaker 2>It's fine, Yeah, this is this is this is the

0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:49.960
<v Speaker 2>only purpose of the CTF.

0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:51.959
<v Speaker 1>I mean, who can say with the only bet who

0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:52.400
<v Speaker 1>can say?

0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:55.840
<v Speaker 2>But so this leading anecdote that just you know, opened

0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.040
<v Speaker 2>with was talking about the Twin Oak Active Opportunities ETF

0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:03.600
<v Speaker 2>and and the thing about ETF, So this one has

0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:06.560
<v Speaker 2>nearly four hundred and fifty million dollars in assets that

0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:08.560
<v Speaker 2>could theoretically be all one person.

0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:12.560
<v Speaker 1>It could My impression was that it was like a

0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:14.680
<v Speaker 1>bunch of like SMP and stuff. But then it was

0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:18.160
<v Speaker 1>like three sort of nearly one hundred million dollar positions

0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:21.240
<v Speaker 1>and like three text talks, which no, say, day a

0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:25.960
<v Speaker 1>dog suggests it was roughly three people who like this

0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:28.400
<v Speaker 1>is pure speculation, but like it could have been three

0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:31.480
<v Speaker 1>people who were really employees at those companies or were

0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:34.159
<v Speaker 1>like granture capital investors in those companies and who have

0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:36.320
<v Speaker 1>like very low basis thok in those companies.

0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:41.399
<v Speaker 2>Well, theoretically, if they are still holding onto the CTF

0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:43.480
<v Speaker 2>and invested in the CTF in some way and they're

0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:46.080
<v Speaker 2>big enough, we should be able in like forty five

0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:49.440
<v Speaker 2>days or something to see who they are sure, which

0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:53.760
<v Speaker 2>is interesting to me. So you lose yes early the.

0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:55.960
<v Speaker 1>Judge of that it does you don't know, right, I

0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:57.280
<v Speaker 1>don't know worked at a company.

0:23:57.480 --> 0:24:00.200
<v Speaker 2>You use the anonymity that you would get in the

0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:01.359
<v Speaker 2>traditional swap funds.

0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:04.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The other thing that was interesting. The article is

0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:06.360
<v Speaker 1>like you lose that and you're even in a more regulated,

0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:10.000
<v Speaker 1>more public vehicle. One thing about it is in the

0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:12.680
<v Speaker 1>ETF trades on the exchange, so anyone can buy it.

0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Next to the other thing, no one would. They don't

0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.160
<v Speaker 1>market it, and like it's not even clear that anyone

0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:18.879
<v Speaker 1>could because you might own all of it and just

0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:21.479
<v Speaker 1>not sell it. But but like you know, but they can.

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:23.680
<v Speaker 1>They can buy from authelized participants. Like in theory someone

0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:26.600
<v Speaker 1>could buy the ETF. Well, and so you have like

0:24:26.680 --> 0:24:28.840
<v Speaker 1>these weird obligations where you have like fiducial duties to

0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:30.080
<v Speaker 1>run the ETF in the right way.

0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:32.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, going back to the name, the twin Oak Active

0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:36.600
<v Speaker 2>Opportunities ETF, which builds itself, is seeking long term capital appreciation.

0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:40.000
<v Speaker 2>I could be poking around at my brokerage account somehow

0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:43.000
<v Speaker 2>come across that and be like, yeah, you could click buy.

0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:46.520
<v Speaker 2>I want to see capital appreciate. That sounds good. So

0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:48.360
<v Speaker 2>that's cool too, right.

0:24:48.720 --> 0:24:51.880
<v Speaker 1>It's a like weird family office trade that in theory

0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:56.879
<v Speaker 1>anyone could free ride on. But like the whole juice

0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:58.639
<v Speaker 1>in the trade is in the first like three days,

0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:01.520
<v Speaker 1>so you're not like getting the a super exciting product

0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:03.560
<v Speaker 1>if you just buy it on the exchange, because like

0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:04.800
<v Speaker 1>the whole point of it was to say with the

0:25:04.840 --> 0:25:05.560
<v Speaker 1>people taxes.

0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:10.120
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I wonder slash worry about what's going to happen

0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:13.760
<v Speaker 2>to the ETF industry. As a reporter, I don't have

0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:18.120
<v Speaker 2>any feelings, but it feels like every ETF. I track

0:25:18.200 --> 0:25:22.040
<v Speaker 2>ETF filings very closely, but every ETF filing nowadays is

0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:28.200
<v Speaker 2>like triple leverage quantum computing stock with an income strategy overlay.

0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:30.640
<v Speaker 2>It's just crazy. It's like all of this like spaghetti

0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:33.560
<v Speaker 2>sauce that's being thrown at the wall, and then maybe

0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:35.560
<v Speaker 2>these will become more popular, and then what does the

0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:37.200
<v Speaker 2>industry turn into. I don't know.

0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:41.560
<v Speaker 1>It's just like it turns into everything. It's it's so

0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:44.440
<v Speaker 1>I've written about like tokenization mm hmm, and I think

0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:47.760
<v Speaker 1>it like tokenization of securities is being largely like people

0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:50.800
<v Speaker 1>trying to find sneaky rays around securities laws and like

0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:53.440
<v Speaker 1>pretend that it's about technology. But someone asks you, like

0:25:53.480 --> 0:25:54.960
<v Speaker 1>what do you think is like the good case? Like

0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:56.480
<v Speaker 1>where are like useful things that can be done with

0:25:56.520 --> 0:26:00.440
<v Speaker 1>the organization? And I look at this stuff and I'm like,

0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:03.879
<v Speaker 1>this is gonna be token. Like this is like a

0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:07.840
<v Speaker 1>whole product set that will be turned into APIs that

0:26:07.920 --> 0:26:10.440
<v Speaker 1>will be turned into like, if you want et F,

0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:12.800
<v Speaker 1>there will be like a series of buttons you can

0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:14.879
<v Speaker 1>push and the ETF will come out and will be

0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:17.600
<v Speaker 1>like exactly the et F you want, and it will

0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:20.200
<v Speaker 1>just exist as an ETF. And you want to have

0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:22.879
<v Speaker 1>to like sit at a meeting with a wealth manager

0:26:23.000 --> 0:26:25.840
<v Speaker 1>or like go to a white label ETF firm, you'll

0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:28.720
<v Speaker 1>just like the computer will give you the ETF that

0:26:28.840 --> 0:26:30.920
<v Speaker 1>you want, and it will heartbeat away whatever you don't want.

0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:35.040
<v Speaker 2>I feel like that is change traded everything, yea, not

0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:36.040
<v Speaker 2>just funds.

0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:40.920
<v Speaker 1>Any portfolio, any trade, any like combination of wins.

0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, any desire that I might feel.

0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:50.119
<v Speaker 1>About to hold. Yeah, yeah, any desire.

0:26:50.280 --> 0:27:07.240
<v Speaker 2>Well we have to talk about Invesco.

0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:11.040
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that's your idea, okay.

0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Also in ETF land. This one actually was my idea.

0:27:13.440 --> 0:27:20.119
<v Speaker 2>But really interesting filing last week. I should stop saying interesting.

0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:22.879
<v Speaker 2>Let me just state of fact. There was a filing

0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:27.600
<v Speaker 2>last week from Invesco. Here's something that not a lot

0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:29.439
<v Speaker 2>of people know or care about.

0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:33.720
<v Speaker 1>I mean to step out of the room. You have fun.

0:27:34.200 --> 0:27:37.879
<v Speaker 2>The queues. The queues it's an ETF the tracks the

0:27:37.960 --> 0:27:41.360
<v Speaker 2>NASAQ one hundred, so it's pretty big, pretty huge, three

0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:44.240
<v Speaker 2>hundred and fifty three hundred and sixty billion dollars depending

0:27:44.280 --> 0:27:47.159
<v Speaker 2>on the day. Started in the nineties, really from the

0:27:47.240 --> 0:27:50.680
<v Speaker 2>dawn of the ETF, one of the oldest still existing ETFs.

0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:55.920
<v Speaker 2>It's actually a unit investment trust. And that's interesting. My

0:27:56.040 --> 0:27:59.200
<v Speaker 2>mind is blown because Invesco doesn't make any money off

0:27:59.240 --> 0:28:03.600
<v Speaker 2>of the queues. The way that the fee breakdown as

0:28:03.680 --> 0:28:06.240
<v Speaker 2>it stands right now, they charge twenty basis points. A

0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:09.360
<v Speaker 2>bunch goes to Nasdaq, from which they license the index.

0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:13.320
<v Speaker 2>A bunch goes to B and Y because they're the trustee.

0:28:13.760 --> 0:28:16.480
<v Speaker 2>That does leave some for Invesco. But it is written

0:28:16.520 --> 0:28:20.240
<v Speaker 2>into the que's prospectus that Invesco has to spend that

0:28:20.560 --> 0:28:22.879
<v Speaker 2>on marketing, which is why the cues are like the

0:28:22.920 --> 0:28:28.880
<v Speaker 2>official ETF of the NCAA and why every big marketing exactly.

0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:33.680
<v Speaker 2>But it's an enormous marketing budget. But I wrote about

0:28:33.680 --> 0:28:36.480
<v Speaker 2>this in August twenty twenty three because it's one of

0:28:36.520 --> 0:28:39.920
<v Speaker 2>my favorite quirks in just the investing landscape that the

0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:44.640
<v Speaker 2>queues are the most profitable ETF because you're charging twenty

0:28:44.680 --> 0:28:46.960
<v Speaker 2>basis points on three hundred and fifty billion dollars of

0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:50.920
<v Speaker 2>assets that spins off over seven hundred million dollars of

0:28:51.000 --> 0:28:55.160
<v Speaker 2>fee revenue a year and investco. It's just this piggy

0:28:55.360 --> 0:28:59.280
<v Speaker 2>bank that they can't break. But they're now trying to

0:28:59.440 --> 0:29:02.560
<v Speaker 2>convert the cues into an open ended ETF from a

0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:07.480
<v Speaker 2>unit investment trust. But to do that, they need shareholders

0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:09.640
<v Speaker 2>to approve it. They need holders of the cues to

0:29:10.000 --> 0:29:13.920
<v Speaker 2>approve it, which is a gargantuan task because they need

0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:17.400
<v Speaker 2>fifty percent quorum on this vote, and there's tens of

0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:20.840
<v Speaker 2>thousands of queues holders at this point. So it's like

0:29:20.880 --> 0:29:24.520
<v Speaker 2>the ultimate exercise in herding cats. And I'm really fascinated

0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:25.240
<v Speaker 2>to see how this goes.

0:29:25.360 --> 0:29:27.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, let me ask you this question. Can they use

0:29:27.320 --> 0:29:31.160
<v Speaker 1>their enormous marketing budget to like send personal mailings to

0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:34.160
<v Speaker 1>eat shareholder and like I don't think sor and like

0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:34.840
<v Speaker 1>please vote?

0:29:35.080 --> 0:29:39.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't think so it's marketing. I mean, in a sense,

0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:42.719
<v Speaker 2>it's not just like marketing the product to buy the product, though,

0:29:42.760 --> 0:29:46.160
<v Speaker 2>it's like trying to rally shareholders for this specific purpose.

0:29:46.000 --> 0:29:50.120
<v Speaker 1>Please buy cues to vote to change it into an ETF.

0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, they are offering a carrot of sorts. They will

0:29:54.240 --> 0:29:55.880
<v Speaker 2>lower the fee to eighteen basis points.

0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:59.040
<v Speaker 1>Eighteen basis points for an index ETF seems still high,

0:29:59.040 --> 0:29:59.880
<v Speaker 1>stordinarily high.

0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:04.040
<v Speaker 2>It is very high. You're right about that, But I

0:30:04.080 --> 0:30:06.560
<v Speaker 2>mean a lot of these holders are locked in. They've

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:08.200
<v Speaker 2>been holding this forever and they don't want to take

0:30:08.200 --> 0:30:11.800
<v Speaker 2>the capital gains head. But if they are able to

0:30:12.960 --> 0:30:16.520
<v Speaker 2>convert it, they'll theoretically be able to change the revenue breakdown.

0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:18.880
<v Speaker 2>So even by lowering the feet, they're still making so

0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:20.720
<v Speaker 2>much more money than they were before.

0:30:21.400 --> 0:30:22.479
<v Speaker 1>They won't have to pay NASDAC.

0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:28.560
<v Speaker 2>And So, because it's a natural question posed by my editors,

0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:31.440
<v Speaker 2>who loses out here? And it seems like who loses

0:30:31.480 --> 0:30:34.240
<v Speaker 2>out are the advertisers?

0:30:35.280 --> 0:30:37.080
<v Speaker 1>You mean the recipient of the advertising?

0:30:37.200 --> 0:30:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly. So the thinking seems to be that Nasdaq

0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:47.360
<v Speaker 2>will still get their eight basis points. There are eight

0:30:47.440 --> 0:30:48.760
<v Speaker 2>basis points of flesh.

0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:55.640
<v Speaker 1>Bony for an index, because like you get, I believe.

0:30:55.440 --> 0:30:59.840
<v Speaker 2>It's exclusive though, like I don't think anyone, Yeah, I know, yeah.

0:31:00.520 --> 0:31:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that makes sense.

0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:05.280
<v Speaker 2>So NASAK will still get paid a licensing fee, which

0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:08.120
<v Speaker 2>is pretty hefty. VONI will have some sort of role

0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:11.920
<v Speaker 2>not trustee. I believe that Invesco is asking shareholders to

0:31:12.760 --> 0:31:16.520
<v Speaker 2>improve Investco to be the trustee as well. Bloomberg Intelligence

0:31:16.640 --> 0:31:22.120
<v Speaker 2>estimates that right now Invesco spends eight basis points on marketing,

0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:25.560
<v Speaker 2>which is so much money. Invesco estimates that'll be reduced

0:31:25.600 --> 0:31:29.880
<v Speaker 2>to two to three two to three basis points to start,

0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:33.600
<v Speaker 2>which translates into something like one hundred and fifty million

0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:38.040
<v Speaker 2>dollars in annual revenue that Investco would unlock with pretty

0:31:38.080 --> 0:31:43.080
<v Speaker 2>much no incremental spend to get it right. So you've

0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:47.040
<v Speaker 2>seen Investco shares go absolutely bananas. I mean, it still

0:31:47.120 --> 0:31:49.680
<v Speaker 2>needs to be approved. The vote is on October twenty fourth,

0:31:50.320 --> 0:31:52.320
<v Speaker 2>and it's just going to be so hard to get

0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:52.920
<v Speaker 2>all those people.

0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:56.520
<v Speaker 1>Any I love the difficulty of getting redown investors to

0:31:56.600 --> 0:31:59.760
<v Speaker 1>it or anything like it comes up occasionally in corporate Yeah,

0:32:00.000 --> 0:32:03.160
<v Speaker 1>and although not that much because corporates usually have mostly

0:32:03.200 --> 0:32:08.120
<v Speaker 1>institutional shareholders unless when their means ducks. But yeah, intf Land,

0:32:08.160 --> 0:32:08.680
<v Speaker 1>it seems hard.

0:32:09.080 --> 0:32:11.560
<v Speaker 2>It does seem hard. I think that's interesting. I hope

0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:14.160
<v Speaker 2>that listeners agree, and please tell me if you don't.

0:32:14.960 --> 0:32:17.360
<v Speaker 2>The other part of the story that I'll tell you

0:32:17.400 --> 0:32:22.320
<v Speaker 2>about the only other unit investment trust of really meaningful

0:32:22.400 --> 0:32:25.320
<v Speaker 2>size out there is Spy Sure, which is also from

0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:29.440
<v Speaker 2>the nineties, born in nineteen ninety three, such as myself sure, and.

0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:33.920
<v Speaker 1>Also famously has there's like some other children born around

0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:35.320
<v Speaker 1>that time. Whoever in the.

0:32:35.360 --> 0:32:39.200
<v Speaker 2>Perspectus, yeah, exactly, like all of these really old ETFs

0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:40.960
<v Speaker 2>have these funky perspectuses.

0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:44.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they really against perpetuity problems, where like, yeah, their

0:32:44.120 --> 0:32:47.760
<v Speaker 1>trusts and so they can't last past, you know, seventy

0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:50.440
<v Speaker 1>five years past the life of some living person, and

0:32:50.520 --> 0:32:52.520
<v Speaker 1>so they name a bunch of babies as like their

0:32:52.600 --> 0:32:54.600
<v Speaker 1>reference lives for their early against perpetuities.

0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:56.760
<v Speaker 2>If you ever really bored, it's worth poking around in

0:32:56.840 --> 0:32:59.520
<v Speaker 2>the perspectus of ETFs that were born in the nineties.

0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:02.800
<v Speaker 1>I have I hope you going to say I've never

0:33:02.880 --> 0:33:04.480
<v Speaker 1>been that word. I'm pretty sure I've looked at the

0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:06.680
<v Speaker 1>spy perspective, so might I have been that word?

0:33:06.800 --> 0:33:09.840
<v Speaker 2>I asked an Apaglia of State Street Investment Management on

0:33:10.000 --> 0:33:12.600
<v Speaker 2>Monday whether or not State Street was going to try

0:33:12.640 --> 0:33:16.360
<v Speaker 2>something similar with Spy, and she said that filing to

0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:18.880
<v Speaker 2>us is interesting, we are going to learn from it.

0:33:19.400 --> 0:33:22.000
<v Speaker 2>And I never say never. Do you know if we

0:33:22.120 --> 0:33:24.640
<v Speaker 2>learn something that we like from this proxy, we will

0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:28.880
<v Speaker 2>think about it, which I heard as if Invesco is

0:33:28.920 --> 0:33:30.600
<v Speaker 2>able to pull this off, maybe we'll do it with SPY.

0:33:31.360 --> 0:33:35.320
<v Speaker 1>The spy have the same economic structure. Yes, eonomic money

0:33:35.360 --> 0:33:35.960
<v Speaker 1>from spy.

0:33:36.680 --> 0:33:40.200
<v Speaker 2>So some money stays in the door because State Street

0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:44.040
<v Speaker 2>is currently the trustee on SPY, but they also have

0:33:44.160 --> 0:33:47.520
<v Speaker 2>to spend a boatload of money on marketing as mandated

0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:48.360
<v Speaker 2>by the perspectives.

0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:50.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what's the charge for a spy?

0:33:51.160 --> 0:33:55.120
<v Speaker 2>I think spy has nine basis points? I know, Well,

0:33:55.160 --> 0:33:59.040
<v Speaker 2>they can't lower it that much because they have to

0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:04.920
<v Speaker 2>give money to their index. They have to give money

0:34:04.960 --> 0:34:06.800
<v Speaker 2>to the trustee, which is them, and then they have

0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:08.800
<v Speaker 2>to spend money on marketing with the index.

0:34:08.920 --> 0:34:11.680
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm aware of SMP funds that charge.

0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:13.960
<v Speaker 2>That's true too, or your bass.

0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:16.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the index can't be that expensive.

0:34:16.560 --> 0:34:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Definitely less so when it comes to the S and

0:34:18.680 --> 0:34:21.000
<v Speaker 2>P five hundred. Sorry for all the ETF talk, but

0:34:21.120 --> 0:34:24.400
<v Speaker 2>half of it was Matt's idea. The other half that

0:34:24.600 --> 0:34:24.920
<v Speaker 2>was all me.

0:34:25.280 --> 0:34:29.920
<v Speaker 1>Please write in and let us know, Please, Darren, No, I.

0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:33.160
<v Speaker 2>Always want to hear I read it. I read every comment,

0:34:33.320 --> 0:34:36.399
<v Speaker 2>so keep them coming. Please don't hurt my feelings.

0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Go ahead and hurt badlines. And that was the Money

0:34:45.080 --> 0:34:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Stuff Podcast.

0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:47.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm Matt Leuvian and I'm Katie Greifeld.

0:34:48.360 --> 0:34:50.399
<v Speaker 1>You can find my work by subscribing to The Money

0:34:50.440 --> 0:34:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Stuff newsletter on Bloomberg dot com, and you.

0:34:53.040 --> 0:34:55.880
<v Speaker 2>Can find me on Bloomberg TV every day on Open

0:34:55.960 --> 0:34:58.360
<v Speaker 2>Interest between nine to eleven am Eastern.

0:34:58.840 --> 0:35:00.520
<v Speaker 1>We'd love to hear from you. You can send an

0:35:00.520 --> 0:35:03.640
<v Speaker 1>email to money Pod at Bloomberg dot net, ask us

0:35:03.680 --> 0:35:05.160
<v Speaker 1>a question and we might answer it on air.

0:35:05.360 --> 0:35:07.480
<v Speaker 2>You can also subscribe to our show wherever you're listening

0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:09.600
<v Speaker 2>right now and leave us a review. It helps more

0:35:09.600 --> 0:35:10.439
<v Speaker 2>people find the show.

0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:13.960
<v Speaker 1>The Money Stuff Podcast is produced by Anna Maserakis and

0:35:14.120 --> 0:35:14.719
<v Speaker 1>Moses One.

0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:17.720
<v Speaker 2>Our theme music was composed by Blake Maples and Stage

0:35:17.760 --> 0:35:19.400
<v Speaker 2>Bauman is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts.

0:35:19.760 --> 0:35:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening to The Money Stuff Podcast. We'll be

0:35:22.200 --> 0:35:23.600
<v Speaker 1>back next week with more stuff