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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome, It's another episode of the Hunting Collective.

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Speaker 1: I've been O'Brien. It's a good one today. It's a

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Speaker 1: real damn good one. I've got Steven Ronnella, which always

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Speaker 1: makes it good. But what makes it even better is

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Speaker 1: I was finally able to insert a show called Game

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Speaker 1: of Thrones into this Hunting podcast. How I did it Well,

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Speaker 1: I just started talking about it because that's what I

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about. I love the show. Steve Rinella,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, does not love the show. So

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Speaker 1: it made for one hell of a conversation about Game

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Speaker 1: of Thrones. Man has never even seen it. It's wrong

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Speaker 1: with him? Well you'll find out. We also talked about morale, mushrooms,

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Speaker 1: how to find him, where to find them, why we

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Speaker 1: love him, why you should all be out there looking

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Speaker 1: for him, and then we touched a little bit on

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Speaker 1: the ethics, the morality and Steve's experience with kyote contests,

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Speaker 1: specifically around some of the legislation that's currently on the

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Speaker 1: board in New Mexico about banning couty contests. And that's

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Speaker 1: a great lead into the interview segment of the podcast,

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Speaker 1: which has Evan Hussin Veld. I probably sunk that up. Evan,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry your last name is important, but you're the

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Speaker 1: president CEO of the Sportsman's Alliance. And Brian Lynn, who's

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Speaker 1: the vice president of Communications and Marketing for the Forces Alliance,

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Speaker 1: we met in Columbus and we talked about what they do,

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Speaker 1: why they do it, uh, fighting back against animal rights

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Speaker 1: folks that are trying to ban things that we love

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Speaker 1: to do, and their thoughts on the modern struggle between

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Speaker 1: a communication of hunting and the non hunting public. So

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Speaker 1: it was a good one. All on, all the Great podcast.

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Speaker 1: Come for the Game of Thrones, stay for the hunting Conversation.

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Speaker 1: That's this show. But before we get to it, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk a little bit about First Light. I've been

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Speaker 1: running around turkey hunting all uh. We were in Texas

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. Now we're gonna do a

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Speaker 1: bunch of Montana hunting over into Oregon, um in Idaho,

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Speaker 1: and a bunch of places where we can chase turks.

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Speaker 1: Pretty much anywhere we can jakes turks, and throughout that

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Speaker 1: time I'll be wearing first Lights gear. And I'll tell you,

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Speaker 1: especially in Texas on our first hunt of the year.

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Speaker 1: The breathe ability of their gear is unbelievable. And for

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Speaker 1: for a hunt where you need multiple layers, you need

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Speaker 1: to start off. You know, it's cool in the mornings,

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Speaker 1: it gets hot as ship in the daytime and then

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Speaker 1: cools back off in the evening. You gotta have verst

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Speaker 1: a line of gear, and First Light is providing that

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Speaker 1: for me for Shure, and so there's different ways of

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Speaker 1: hunt turkeys. You know here in the Inner Mountain West,

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Speaker 1: there's a ton of things you can do. But for me, Um,

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Speaker 1: if you look at their men's killing hoodie you look

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Speaker 1: at of course you have like the phantom leafy suit top. Man,

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Speaker 1: that's that leafy suit top. Old cowards the leafy suit

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Speaker 1: top more than I, but he's certainly certainly makes you

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Speaker 1: look like a turf turkey hunter. Um. If anything else,

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Speaker 1: those are some of the key pieces for me and

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Speaker 1: for others in the crew. I'm always taking the puffy

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Speaker 1: insulated jacket and I'm always taking the vapor Stormlight Ultra

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Speaker 1: Rain Ultra light rain jacket with me as well. So

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Speaker 1: there's those are key pieces to me. You I like it.

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Speaker 1: I like solids as much as anything with turkey hunting.

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Speaker 1: Camo on top and then just stay the hell still,

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Speaker 1: don't move um and don't let Turkey see you. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: First Light scored for Uce in Texas. It's gonna score

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Speaker 1: Force in Montana. Two very different environments. Both of them

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Speaker 1: do very well. So first Light dot Com hit them up.

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Speaker 1: You can go there and you can see there there

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Speaker 1: Turkey lineup. It's pretty good. Man. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't think of First Light when you think of turkeys,

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Speaker 1: but I do because I need to kick ass, So

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Speaker 1: go do it. And with that, here comes the show.

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Speaker 1: Let's get it started. I guess I grew up on

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Speaker 1: an all the road to the meadow. I always did

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Speaker 1: what I told until I found out that my brand

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Speaker 1: new clothes look games that can hand for. I'm the

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Speaker 1: rich kids next door and I I'm bad. Like it's

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Speaker 1: like what I mean, they have a thousand things inside

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Speaker 1: of my head I wish I ain't seen, and now

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to real bad dream of being and

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Speaker 1: like I'm coming abot of the seams. But thank you,

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Speaker 1: Jack Daniels, No. No seven. Hey, everybody, welcome to another

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Speaker 1: episode of the Hunting Collective. I've been O'Brien, that's what's

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Speaker 1: at fourteen that this will air and I'm joined by

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Speaker 1: one Stephen Ronnella, which is in the future. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: in the future. Let's be clear. We're not recording it

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Speaker 1: as you're listening to it. That's not how it works.

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Speaker 1: We had I had some someone right in and ask

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Speaker 1: me that are you recording it live? Like No, I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying the date that's going to get out. We're

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Speaker 1: here in the uh Meat Eater offices and Boson Montana

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Speaker 1: and um, we're gonna run a sneak attack on Steve

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Speaker 1: real quick here. Uh. We're also joined by Annie Razor

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Speaker 1: racer like racer like racer car right? Is this your

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Speaker 1: any is this is your the VP of production? Here,

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Speaker 1: you're behind the scenes a lot, Uh like films like

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Speaker 1: Stars in the Sky and other than the Meat eat

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes, you're behind the scenes. This is your

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Speaker 1: Is it your first foray into into actually being out front? Um,

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Speaker 1: I've been on one other podcast, but uh the other

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Speaker 1: Meat Eaters before and um some some cameos and some

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Speaker 1: digital content. Yeah, well we're you're here as an expert.

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Speaker 1: You were a child actor. Uh yeah, what child acting?

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Speaker 1: Oh tell us about that before we get into some

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Speaker 1: commercials and things like what commercials, car commercials? What kind

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Speaker 1: of car? You're driving a car? Yeah, I was driving

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Speaker 1: the car. No, just uh yeah, I don't know. Toyota,

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Speaker 1: those are those are car companies. UM, well, you're here

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Speaker 1: because you're an expert on something, and you're the office expert,

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Speaker 1: I believe on on a show called Game of Thrones.

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Speaker 1: Game of Thrones, it's probably the best television program ever

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Speaker 1: to air ever ever. I know this is a hunting podcast,

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Speaker 1: but here's me not given a ship, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to have a segment what we call Game of Thrones

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Speaker 1: recap and Steve, if you ever you're aware of what

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Speaker 1: the Game of Thrones is, certainly, certainly, but you've never watched,

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Speaker 1: never watched. No desire is that on principle, it's because

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Speaker 1: I don't I watched, and I watched, and I watch

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Speaker 1: a lot of movies. I don't like serial I don't

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Speaker 1: like I don't like any serial drama, any serial drama,

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Speaker 1: because it cuts into my ability to watch the number

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Speaker 1: of movies that I want and need to watch, because

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Speaker 1: once you get into a serial drama, it takes up

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Speaker 1: hours and hours and hours. And I'm very deliberate about

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Speaker 1: how I spend all of my time. I do not

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Speaker 1: waste time. I don't vege out. And so for me

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Speaker 1: to commit to watching dozens of hours of a single

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Speaker 1: thing in that time, I could have taken in some

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Speaker 1: succinct things, some substinct, succinct, freestanding pieces of art or whatever,

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Speaker 1: um and and and and and I'm not gonna like

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Speaker 1: go give some individual that much of my attention, is it.

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Speaker 1: It's so it's not that it's dragons and sorcery and

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Speaker 1: things of that nature. Definitely not like that. That's not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not seduced by that. I'm not like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: if it's about zombies, I like it, or if it's

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Speaker 1: about dragons, I like it. Like, no, I would tend

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Speaker 1: to count I would that would count that as a

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Speaker 1: mark against it. But in and of itself, no, that

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Speaker 1: wouldn't prevent me from watching something. We're hoping to seduce

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Speaker 1: you of Thrones at this point. Okah, Like what if

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Speaker 1: it had zombies and dragons, then I would then I

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Speaker 1: would actually not watch it. Okay, Well it's a good

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Speaker 1: it's a good way to start this segment. And to

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Speaker 1: know that, Steve, I'll never watch a game with us

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Speaker 1: because it is what's at eight seasons? Any Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is the eighth season. You know what I'm saying about,

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Speaker 1: Like my like, I don't like to do mindless activities. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is roughly ten hours times eight. This is almost

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Speaker 1: it'll be almost a hundred hours of television serial dramas.

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Speaker 1: You can smell them trying to stretch it out. You

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Speaker 1: can smell them adding new characters and smell them keeping

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Speaker 1: it going, and that to me is very irritating. I

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Speaker 1: feel like you might be surprised if you watch this show.

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Speaker 1: It's I just rewatched all of the hundred hours in

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Speaker 1: the last days and if you know what you know

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Speaker 1: now and you watch rewatch the beginning, it's everything is intentional.

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Speaker 1: From the first season. They're probably it's probably not, but

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Speaker 1: they're probably good at making it seem like that, which

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Speaker 1: is nice. I appreciate that sixteen point five million people

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Speaker 1: tuned into the well, seventeen point four million people turned

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Speaker 1: into the episode, this last episode of game Game of Thrones.

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Speaker 1: That's good for TV show. That's a good one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's millions of dollars. They spent millions, probably billion dollars

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Speaker 1: they spent on the production of these dudes. I bet

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Speaker 1: they spent like ten million dollars on the new intro.

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Speaker 1: Did you notice that the new intro was was was

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Speaker 1: always called dope? That's what you word I would use,

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Speaker 1: where's this head? Uh? Mostly just because I see like

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Speaker 1: dragon aggravated, That's really what I wanted to get to.

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Speaker 1: I just don't know, like I don't know, like, uh,

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Speaker 1: go on. We are going to go on now. As

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Speaker 1: a hunting podcast, we're not probably not supposed to talk

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Speaker 1: about Game of Thrones, but I love the show and

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Speaker 1: it's my podcast. That's what we're gonna do. And and

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Speaker 1: he's here as the expert because she just got finished

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Speaker 1: watching how many hours eighty hours over the last forty

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Speaker 1: five days. She's been inundated with Game of Thrones content

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Speaker 1: over the last months or so, and so how many

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Speaker 1: hours have you spent watching TV? At night? I mean

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Speaker 1: I go home and I like turn on, like do

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Speaker 1: some stuff, like do more work, and I'm like, I've

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Speaker 1: seen all of them already, So I'm just like catching up.

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Speaker 1: Are you kind of person who leaves the TV on

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Speaker 1: in their house just to have it on? I'm just

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Speaker 1: just like trying to catch up. Is there anything I

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Speaker 1: missed here. Yeah, the subtleties of this one, and there

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Speaker 1: were things now and he set us up where we

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Speaker 1: are right now in the series. We're entering the final

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Speaker 1: season Throne, which I'm very excited about. Yeah, so it's

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Speaker 1: the final season. Everyone is still basically at war for

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Speaker 1: the Iron Throne. And meanwhile the White Walkers are ascending. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but they're like snow zombies and they ye anyway, um,

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Speaker 1: keep Steve needs to know this stuff there. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how detailed I can get here. The

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Speaker 1: easiest way to describe it as, Yeah, there's snow zombies,

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Speaker 1: but if you want me to tell you that they

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Speaker 1: become one, Yeah, you get like bit or like stabbed

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Speaker 1: by one, or you have a little transformation and you're

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Speaker 1: like your eyes, yeah, your eyes are blue blue. So

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Speaker 1: they did a little twist down the zombie thing, like

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Speaker 1: this infectious problem. And the zombies live north of the Wall,

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Speaker 1: which is a giant ice wall that was constructed by

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Speaker 1: the humans to keep out the zombies. Built it out

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Speaker 1: of ice. It's wal It took hoses and turned it

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Speaker 1: on there until they froze. There's also some magic. It's

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Speaker 1: a magical wall. Yeah, it's a bit of a there's

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Speaker 1: some magic in the wall at the wall. How they

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Speaker 1: build the wall, I don't know Brandon Builder built. I

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Speaker 1: don't think guys just melt a hole through it. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's actually what happened. So what happened is climate change.

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Speaker 1: Now the ice. This is the most entertaining that anybody

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Speaker 1: has has ever been the the the Denaia Stargarian who

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Speaker 1: is the Dragon Queen came came over from the other

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Speaker 1: side of the world to fight basically the Chines in

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Speaker 1: the Middle East or Africa most of the series, and

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Speaker 1: then she comes over to like Europe, and she she

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Speaker 1: gets little on fire in a funeral pyre and when

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Speaker 1: the fire like an accident on purpose, and when the

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Speaker 1: fire burns out, she's left with she's completely nude, but

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Speaker 1: she has baby dragons because in the fire were dragon eggs,

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Speaker 1: so she has these baby dragons, which were the only

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Speaker 1: three dragons that exists on on inst funeral Ye gets

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Speaker 1: lit on fire, her husband dies off, and then there

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Speaker 1: she's standing with three dragons hatched in the fire, naked.

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Speaker 1: So these are like ponderols the pine where they need

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Speaker 1: to burn to totally to incubate. But she's they need

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Speaker 1: to burn in order to become viable. Yeah, so she

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Speaker 1: becomes She gets very powerful and builds these armies to

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Speaker 1: go and take back the throne, which is in west ROAs,

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Speaker 1: which is where she's from. She was driven out of

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Speaker 1: west ros into excellent. She's bad or good, She's she's

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Speaker 1: it's questionable. She's mostly good, but she shows some signs

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Speaker 1: of maybe not skipping ahead, Like seventy hours had seventy

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Speaker 1: hours of content. You get to the point where she

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Speaker 1: her and John Snow, who was a bastard of winter

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Speaker 1: Fell when we found out this last episode, using bastard

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Speaker 1: as in like he sired a child. He yes, any

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Speaker 1: children are illegitimate in this world. They are Like if

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Speaker 1: you're not like a child born to two people that

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Speaker 1: were married, you're considered a bastard and you're given a

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Speaker 1: different name. Kind of an antiquated idea. So like he

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Speaker 1: was how Stark, but since his he lived his whole

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Speaker 1: life thinking he was a bastard, he wasn't John Stark,

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Speaker 1: he was John Snow. Snow is like the name they

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Speaker 1: use for the Harry Potter. No, that's dumb, No, that's dumb.

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Speaker 1: This is about what we're talking about step off for Nella.

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Speaker 1: This is the greatest show, cries. And someone told me

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Speaker 1: there was like a fire and some dragon eggs came

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Speaker 1: out of Ry Potter. That's true, that's true. But I

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Speaker 1: don't know anything about Harry Potter like all that stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I read one of my kids. Sounds exactly like exactly

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about. All right, So John Snow he

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Speaker 1: comes in as the King of the North. Now you

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Speaker 1: would like him, you'd like him. You're kind of guy.

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Speaker 1: He'd be your favorite character. He gets, He gets he

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Speaker 1: got stabbed in the heart by his his Night's wats brothers,

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Speaker 1: but was brought back to life by a red priestess.

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Speaker 1: She's basically a witch. She brings him back to life

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Speaker 1: and by cutting his hair. She cuts his hair and

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Speaker 1: then she cuts his hair and then trims his beard

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Speaker 1: and then she like it goes like this on his chest,

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Speaker 1: right in the heart. It was not good and he

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Speaker 1: was dead and she brought him back to life. It

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Speaker 1: comes back to life. He meets the dragon Queen. They

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Speaker 1: get together, They fall in love. They need he needs

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Speaker 1: to prove to her. Yeah, they all in love. Kind of.

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Speaker 1: They're still working on the love thing. Like he starts

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Speaker 1: getting a crush on her, develops into love. Yeah, it's quick.

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Speaker 1: It's like like Magical People two episodes. He's more of

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Speaker 1: a she's a little magical. He's more just magic was

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Speaker 1: applied to him. Yeah, more more of a deal. They

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Speaker 1: get together. He needs to prove to her that the

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Speaker 1: ice zombies exist because she doesn't believe him, So they

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Speaker 1: have to fly north of the wall just check it out.

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Speaker 1: He goes, want to drag it. He gets he gets

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Speaker 1: up there with some other dudes. They're trying to capture

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Speaker 1: one of these zombies to bring it back to show

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Speaker 1: him that it exists. And that's how he's got to

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Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, it was very I didn't agree with

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Speaker 1: this doesn't sound yeah, yeah, no, they had to bring

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Speaker 1: it back to Searcy. Yeah, it's like in the old

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Speaker 1: days when they would come from Europe and bring Native

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Speaker 1: Americans back to show off. Right, they had to like

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Speaker 1: go up there and get this thing, bring it back

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Speaker 1: and be like this exists. Because everybody's out of war

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Speaker 1: for the throne. They got to convince everybody. He's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know up north, Yeah, let's not do the war

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Speaker 1: anymore for a while, Like who cares about this iron throne,

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Speaker 1: and they're like bullshit, and he's like, no, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: fly my dragon up, yes, because you know we have

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Speaker 1: dragons like that. You believe, but you don't believe that

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Speaker 1: there's a guy up there. So he flies up to

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Speaker 1: kidnap a snow zombie and bringing back and be like

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Speaker 1: I told you, Yeah, here's the one right here. And

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Speaker 1: there's like a hundred thousands these snow zombies all marching

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Speaker 1: towards the ice wall. And so why is the ice

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Speaker 1: wall there if they don't believe in the snow zombies. Well,

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Speaker 1: they believe it was a legend that is no longer true.

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Speaker 1: It's been so long since they built the wall that

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Speaker 1: that people kind of like forgot yahyah. So John snow

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Speaker 1: out of blocks ice Yeah, yeah, big ones. It's a

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Speaker 1: big kind of welded together with like welded with water. Sure. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it was like kind of how you would

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Speaker 1: build a snowman. They just kind of kept very cold climate.

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Speaker 1: Cold climate. It's cold winners last for decades forever. Winter

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Speaker 1: is coming coming. I mean it's here now, Um am

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Speaker 1: I getting this good? So I don't know Steve's retaining

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Speaker 1: any It's easy I'm following it very easy to get it.

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Speaker 1: And then so Johnstows is going to find he's trying

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Speaker 1: to get that white Walker to bring back to prove

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Speaker 1: to everyone that did they exist. They get stuck amongst

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of them, and then they send a

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Speaker 1: pigeon a raven, a raven. They put a note on

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Speaker 1: a raven and they get it back to um the

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Speaker 1: Dragon Queen, who reads the note and says, holy shit,

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Speaker 1: I've got to get up there and save John Snow

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Speaker 1: because they're you know, they've been they haven't gotten it on.

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Speaker 1: But she's skeptical about the existence. So how does this

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Speaker 1: if how does this prove? Like she still hasn't seen one.

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Speaker 1: So the fact that someone says, hey, I'm stuck in

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Speaker 1: a bunch of them, she would say, but they don't exist.

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Speaker 1: She kind of believes it at this point, he didn't

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Speaker 1: even need to bring it back. Him telling her that

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Speaker 1: they exist isn't enough for her. So she's like, I

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Speaker 1: don't believe. You have to go get one. He goes.

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Speaker 1: He goes to get one, and then he sends a

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Speaker 1: raven saying I'm sorry, I'm not able to bring one

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Speaker 1: back because I'm stuck with them, at which point she

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Speaker 1: now believes in them and is going to rescue. That's

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Speaker 1: this we might have told him. This round woman who

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Speaker 1: we haven't talked about introduced. Her name is Cercy, and

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Speaker 1: she is the worst, and she is currently the queen

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Speaker 1: in King's Landing, which is like their capital. Her both

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Speaker 1: her sons were kings and they both died and now

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Speaker 1: she's just like taken over and she has no kids left. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't believe she's the one that's refusing to like

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Speaker 1: band together and like go fight this enemy from the north.

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Speaker 1: She's like, I don't believe you guys. You're all crazy,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, the only way she's gonna believe us

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Speaker 1: is if we bring one to her and show her

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Speaker 1: she's the actual queen. She's the one wants to see

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Speaker 1: the carcass. So then John goes up to get it,

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Speaker 1: and then while he's up there, they're like, oh crap,

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Speaker 1: we're getting surrounded by these things. This dude, Gendri runs

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Speaker 1: back to the wall, the ice wall, to where the

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Speaker 1: ravens are, and they send a raven to the Dragon

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Speaker 1: Queen who's down south still, and it says like basically,

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Speaker 1: send help. She gets on her dragon to go rescue them,

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Speaker 1: and three dragons. All three dragons go together to rescue

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Speaker 1: John Snow and his crew of people that were trying

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Speaker 1: to get the White Walker. There's another character called the

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Speaker 1: Night King who was the leader of the White Walkers.

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Speaker 1: He's like used to be a man. They stabbed him

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Speaker 1: in the heart with dragon glass. Then he became a

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Speaker 1: zombie um. He has a spear and throws this ice

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Speaker 1: spear at a dragon, kills the dragon, and then he

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Speaker 1: has powers to bring the dragon back to life, so

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Speaker 1: becomes an ice dragon. He then gets on the dragon,

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Speaker 1: flies it to the wall and uses blue fire to

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Speaker 1: to bring down the wall. Like the dragon breathes it out,

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Speaker 1: breas out the blue fire got it and everybody down.

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Speaker 1: The wall comes crashing down. Then everyone goes down down

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Speaker 1: and then all of the little gap it's a gap,

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Speaker 1: it's a big gap. It's a gap like hundreds of

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Speaker 1: as the people then not people, there's zombies. They walked

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Speaker 1: through it and seen the World War Z or whatever

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Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, like when they when they break the

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Speaker 1: Wall of Jericho or whatever, the wall surrounding that wall

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Speaker 1: of Jericho, but the wall surrounding the zombies. They kind

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Speaker 1: of stole that from the zombies are trying to get

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Speaker 1: through the wall that surrounds Israel. Similar, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of similar they draw. Yeah, they got they probably stole

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Speaker 1: some stuff. Was not like that, they just marched through it.

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Speaker 1: They also have a slowly They also have a zombie

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Speaker 1: giant that's in there too, Goliath. They stole that from

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Speaker 1: the Old Testament mag the Mighty and Um. So that's

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Speaker 1: what's happening right now. And Um, what do you think

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Speaker 1: of this last episode there? Annie, Um, I feel like

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Speaker 1: it was a little tame. It was setting the groundwork

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Speaker 1: for all the the stuff in the final season. So

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of It was a lot of reunions.

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Speaker 1: It was like fifty minutes of pe Bowl because everyone's

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Speaker 1: been all over the place, which I think is important

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Speaker 1: for what's going to happen. Um, But I'm exciting now

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00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: they're all really like they're reunited, the team coming back together.

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Speaker 1: They still left from a team, but there's there's there's

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Speaker 1: a fantastic there's one. There's like a dwarf who used

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Speaker 1: to be married to the lady of winter Fell. They

386
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,399
Speaker 1: were forced to be married by the door's father, so

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Speaker 1: they got back together. There was a magical face changing

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00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: girl who used to live at winter Fell. She got

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Speaker 1: reunited with the hound who had her as a captive

390
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 1: for a long time. Um, I didn't get what I

391
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 1: needed out of that renit. They needed to hug it

392
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:41,199
Speaker 1: out some real bull Um. So yeah, we're gonna continue

393
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 1: this segment. Steve's probably not gonna come back for it.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't look there's two kinds of people in this world,

395
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Speaker 1: me and Ben and you the kind of people. I

396
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,400
Speaker 1: think you can lump everybody into two categories, two kinds

397
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Speaker 1: of people. Spl from what you guys are telling me,

398
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: Like if I was gonna with two kinds of not

399
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 1: two guys, people with two kinds of people who likes

400
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 1: like like film and television. I think there's the David

401
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: Lynch people in the in the dragon people. I'm a

402
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,199
Speaker 1: David Lynch guy. See, I would consider myself sounds entirely

403
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: incompatible with a mind. I think of mind that appreciates

404
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: David Lynch. This sounds like incompatible materials. Talking about in

405
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: intellectual cinema and more fantasy based, less intellectual. I would

406
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: say that Game of Thrones has has has done for

407
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 1: fantasies what no other fantasy has done. It's like made

408
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 1: a lot of people that don't like this kind of

409
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 1: stuff interested in because of the character building in the writing. Yeah, like,

410
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 1: I'm not in that into fantasy. It's not either. I don't.

411
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Speaker 1: I've never seen more of the Rings. Hate it, hate

412
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 1: it Harry Potter, the books or the movie. I took

413
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: a class in high school that all we do is

414
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: read Lord of the Rings, and we looked at it

415
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: through the lens of World War two in the Nazis.

416
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: It sounds interesting, it's really unbelievable, and it was heart

417
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 1: wrenching to see some of the films that came out.

418
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: The films were real bad, And so, yeah, I'm into it.

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Speaker 1: I would not say it's my genre. It's like the

420
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 1: only thing that I watch. It's definitely not. There's nothing

421
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: hunting related, but it's something ut they do did a

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00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: little bit of hunting. It's a big part of my

423
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: life right now or not Lord of the Rings, but

424
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: big part of my life. You know, I'm glad you

425
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: guys are I'm glad you guys have found something you enjoy.

426
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: But I mean, no, no, used to be honestly, as

427
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: you're describing it, it it sounds really silly. I accept that

428
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: there's so much more complexity to it that it's probably

429
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: not silly, but it sounds silly. Yeah, I can see

430
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: that les and dragons and whatnot, and yeah, having a

431
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: fire and getting the eggs out of it the queen

432
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 1: and flying in on a drag and the rest. That

433
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: part is a little too much for everybody. Well, but

434
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: this last episod. John Snow actually flew on a dragon

435
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: with you remember the scene in Tombstone. You know a

436
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: guy named John Snow? You do, Yeah, he lives here

437
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: in town. That's what I thought. I kept messing with me. Yeah,

438
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 1: we're always whenever we hear, whenever we like. But so,

439
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: you remember the scene in Tombstone where Wider rides with

440
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: his lady uh interest. They ride horses together and they're

441
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: like off into the distance and their horses are kind

442
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: of in heat and playing with each other. It's like

443
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: a nice Hollywood trope of like we're in love or

444
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be that this happened. This happened in the

445
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: last episode with John Snow and the Nares start gearing

446
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: the dragon Queen. They rode dragons together, and the dragons

447
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: were playfully like it was a lot too much. And

448
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: then they and then they landed in like a like

449
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: a ice waterfall scenario, and then they kissed. It was

450
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: the worst. And then they panned to the dragon. The

451
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: dragon was like the dragons like looking at the John's

452
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: it was the dragon was kind of getting off on

453
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: looking at the draft. The dragon was like flapping his

454
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: wings and it was like I think I read online

455
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 1: somewhere someone said it was like I saw a meme

456
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: where it was that scene and it said like when

457
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 1: she kisses you in front of her dad. Yeah, that's

458
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: like what it was like like that, But it was

459
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: very terrible that it was one of the worst scenes.

460
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: You feel. It was like maybe crunch. It was bad.

461
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: It was bad. It was kind of like if she

462
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: fell off, I wouldn't care. Yeah, I was hoping that

463
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: the ice hobbies are just coming get him right there.

464
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 1: I was like, aren' they getting close to them? Now?

465
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: They just keep going north, They're flying around and dragons.

466
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: There's been great. Uh No, I'm glad. I really had

467
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: no idea what it was about. So this is a

468
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: great Okay, I can talk about it intelligently now, all right,

469
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: any thank you for your service. Welcome podcast back to

470
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: our normal schedule program. Thank you for coming, hopefully right now.

471
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 1: You needna come, you'renna stay, but thanks for your expertise.

472
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: Thanks for your expertise. While when we get back to

473
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: the regular scheduled program. Really because I'm glad because no

474
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: people bring it up and be like, yeah, I don't

475
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: know about that. I like the part where he throws

476
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: the icicle at the dragon kissing part too. I like

477
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 1: it too, if you want to call over Sunday, like

478
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: sometimes I thought I'd be gone, We'll be gone, and

479
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: that's unforture. There's a thing where the people in Flea Bottom,

480
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: which is like the very poor area, they make bowls

481
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: of brown, which is like what the poor people eat there,

482
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: and then the King's landing. You're gonna We're gonna make

483
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: bowls of brown this Sunday, dude. This is exactly you

484
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 1: guys don't really This is a Harry Potter thing too.

485
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: People make the food to eat on Harry Potter. Yeah,

486
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: and watch Harry Potter. Yeah. I mean it's not like

487
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: specific to just one like enter like, I think it

488
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: happens a lot of times, so into it that I

489
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 1: would dress up like I'll be doing a little thing

490
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: called hunting on Sunday. What do you do Sunday when

491
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: it gets dark, You're gonna come over with a little

492
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 1: thing called I made a poll for the whole office,

493
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: which only like eleven people participated in. There's only twenty

494
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: of us. That pretty good, and it's like who it's

495
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: everyone that's still left remaining their name obviously if they live,

496
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: if they die, if they die, who killed them? And

497
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: if they turn into a white walker? And there's like

498
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: three different questions at the bottom. Did you get my form?

499
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: And here's made me really upset by the way, because

500
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: you said all the Starks die, but brand barf and

501
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: then you said something else. I was like, what, I

502
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: there's a strategy there. I don't want to let it

503
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: out right now. It was deeply upsetting to me. I

504
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna win. Segue into the topic of Morrell

505
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: mushroom hunting coming up, which Steve, well, it depends where

506
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: you're at. When I say coming up, I always mean

507
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: like wherever I'm at coming up, it's coming up here

508
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 1: for sure. Um. Steve hit us with a like a

509
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: first ever Morele mushroom story, like the first time you

510
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 1: discovered my first ever morell mushroom. Uh. As a kid,

511
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: we had we ate a lot of not a lot,

512
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: We had a handful of varieties of wild mushrooms. We

513
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: ate coral mushrooms, which are easy to identify. My parents

514
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 1: favorite was a mushroom called stumpies um, which is a

515
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: honey mushroom, but we knew him as stump either going oak,

516
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: stumps decaying oak and uh now. And then we would

517
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: eat puff balls, and puff balls are good because there

518
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: there's not any poisonous puff balls, and our mushroom eating

519
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: was pretty much limited to those three varieties. And remember,

520
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 1: around the time I was getting out of high school,

521
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: my brother Matt got super interested in Morrel's and we

522
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: made a couple of jaunts up in because because Morrell's

523
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: weren't really known to be in our area, which was wrong,

524
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: but we thought they weren't around. Um and Morrell's are affiliated,

525
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: you know, there's things that just Morrell's will grow in

526
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: a symbiotic relationship with different trees in different areas. So

527
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: on Virginia, it could be tulip poplars, could be cotton woods,

528
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,959
Speaker 1: it could be elms, it could be aspens and uh,

529
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: we would go up to this place that calls itself

530
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: the morel capital of the world, which is me Sick, Michigan,

531
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: and we would go up around me Sick and up

532
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: around big rapids and try to hunt Morrell's. And I

533
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: remember going up there once. I was dating this gal

534
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: from Sarajevo, and we went up there and found a

535
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: deer fawn, a white tailed deer fawn, no Morrel's. And

536
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: then we got onto the idea that they grow really

537
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: good in our area around dead elms. And because the

538
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: Dutch elm disease, there are elms all all elms die.

539
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: It's like a death. They're born with an early death sentence.

540
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: And so my brother found this old fence row on

541
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: a farm we deer hunt on. They had a lot

542
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: of dead elms, and so we took the check in

543
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: those dead elms and finally started. And that was where

544
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: I saw my first ever morel was on a the

545
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: zer Loot family farm, in underneath a dead elm. And

546
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: then I went on to find many more Morrell's after,

547
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: but that was the first one I ever laid eyes on.

548
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: It up was your first teacher. We just we cooked

549
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: all wild mushrooms the same sautatum and butter and put

550
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: salt and pepper on becau actly what we did growing

551
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: up coral mushrooms stump because we never did anything besides that.

552
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: Then later we got into other ways of cooking them.

553
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: But that's like, that's how I like Morrel's. That to me,

554
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: it's when you get into spring you start thinking about

555
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: turkey hunting, and Morrel's the flavor of like a cast

556
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: iron skillet full of butter with Morele's salt and pepper

557
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: with like on the front side or the back side

558
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: of it, like fresh turkey breast. Yeah, like, man, we've

559
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: done they're jump take them, pack them full of cream, cheese,

560
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: and fry them. It's like that's how I like Morrell.

561
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: And people say like, oh, once you dry them and

562
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: re hydram, there more flavorful. I like fresh Morel's cooked

563
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: in butter. Yeah, I'm with you, And I like, do

564
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: you think that that most what do you think the

565
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: percentage of hunters is that are interested in Morrel's when

566
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: they're out in the woods, understand how to find them.

567
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm running to a lot of them that do.

568
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: But there's certainly are guys that are just out there

569
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: for Morrel's. When I lived in Illinois, there were dudes

570
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: that we're just hard core Morall hard core Morell people.

571
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: There's a strong overlap. I think most like serious woodsman

572
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: and I mean to use that woodsman and woods women.

573
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: It's not something you hear very often, uh woodsman and

574
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: woods women that I know that they're serious outdoorsman women.

575
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: They're serious outdoors people. They know about Morrel's. But I

576
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: think it's a you know, I think it's a minority.

577
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: You know, I still think it's like a yeah, I

578
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: think it's less than fifty percent of people. Less than

579
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: fifty percent of the licensed turkey hunters out there are

580
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: also Morrel hunters, And I think that there's um. But

581
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: then the people I know that really like like nature,

582
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, when they're hunting turkeys, they know about ramps,

583
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: they know about Morrel's, they know about watercress in the

584
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: in the summer I'm sorry, in the spring months, and

585
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: that's something you know. At warter Garcia has started pushing

586
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: into my brain like yeah, moreles are great, but look

587
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: at all this stuff while asparagus, Look at watercress, look

588
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: at all this other stuff that asparius has escaped it's

589
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: a it's an escaped the mass stick. It's like a

590
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: feral plant. Yeah, which is is interesting, like to learn

591
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: straight better than regulars. Yeah, it is when you get

592
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: the new shoot. Wasn't there yesterday, and then all of

593
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: a sudden it's staying there, delicious looking like carrot sticks.

594
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: You look around and you're looking around the woods in

595
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: a different way when you like a carrot stick. I'll

596
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: tell you a trick about finding asparagus is if it

597
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: goes to seed the year before, it's one of the

598
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: few plants for the branch. It's like a weed, a stocky.

599
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: So if if the presparagus doesn't get picked and it

600
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: goes to seed, it's one of the few plants that

601
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: throws a limb at a nine at a perfect ninety

602
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: degree angle. So if you're you'll be driving along in

603
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: a boat or in a car and see that stock

604
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: or the limb coming off at a ninety degree angle

605
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: and be like, and then if it's the right time

606
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: of year, that's the one last year that went to

607
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: that grew and didn't get picked. But you go and check,

608
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,479
Speaker 1: and that's how so we we'll find the old plant

609
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: from the year before, and then look underneath it, to

610
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: pick the little six inches underneath it. That's what I mean.

611
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: When I was growing up at stands, the big poplars

612
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: on the East coast, like that's where we found mushrooms.

613
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: Not while that's why I found morrel mushrooms, and that

614
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: became a thing. And I never thought as I traveled

615
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: the country that there were various places to find moreles.

616
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: As my young mind, it's like, oh, there's no popular,

617
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: no, no no morels. I think a lot of people think

618
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: that's just in the regional nature. Yeah, we had it

619
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: fixed just because our little micro area dead elms. But

620
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: then later it was you know, then later Uh, it

621
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: could be that you could find them in burnt Lodgepole.

622
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: You can find them on dead and dying below dead

623
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: and dyeing cotton woods. Like every area is something different.

624
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: You talked to some other guy in some other part

625
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: of the country, and uh, and you know, whatever the

626
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: hell they find them on a new place. Yeah, I

627
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: mean you look at burn areas out west. I mean

628
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: some of those fires out in California, they were there

629
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: were hordes of mushroom hunters that would go out that

630
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: will be there the spring, probably there pretty soon to

631
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: find the mushrooms in those big burn areas, but river bottoms,

632
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: anything that's sparse forest type of things. Um and fact.

633
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: If you go to the mediator dot com you can

634
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: read Spencer new Yart wrote a piece on the one

635
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: oh one on how to find more else, so you

636
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: can read it there if you would like to. And

637
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: do you think they would have moreles on the Game

638
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 1: of Thrones like they would probably for sure they would

639
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,919
Speaker 1: probably beat them there. Yeah, they'd be picking all kinds

640
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 1: of mushrooms. Yeah, if they ran into them. Yeah, but

641
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: they're always like trumping around in the woods and stuff.

642
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that hasn't been in there yet. Yeah. Maybe

643
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: maybe this season, maybe last season. They'll just be it's

644
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: a magic mushrooms if you if you eat it a dragon. No,

645
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: if you eat it, then you trip trip balls and

646
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: then you just get to wash the Game of Thrones

647
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: while tripping balls. And you have any morell mushroom stories

648
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: or anything to add, I don't have anything really interesting.

649
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 1: I like them. They taste good. That's good. That's good

650
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: to know. When I left when I used to live

651
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: in Missoula, Montana, many years ago, I had a lot

652
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 1: of Morrell spots, and I was always trying to get

653
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: people interested in Morrel's, like kids I went to grad

654
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: school with, and I tried to get him interest in Morrel's.

655
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: I remember leaving town and handing off my Morrell spots

656
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: to someone. Do you have any around here yet? I

657
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: am going to call you and text you and bug you.

658
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: I have Morell spots here. More. I have some weird

659
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: Morrell spots here. I gotta go into. That's weird. Morrell

660
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: spots are sacrilegious. Man handed them off, and I don't

661
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: know if anybody's actually utilizing them. Oh man, Yeah, I

662
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: gotta be a new to town. I don't have any here,

663
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: but I won't. I want that. You could drive five

664
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: minutes from here and get your car and walk like

665
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: three minutes. People do like um gutter Punk's camp there

666
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: in the summer. I've only other seen one like person.

667
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: I mean, the only reason I know it's there is

668
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: because I was hiking and I saw someone else picking them.

669
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, tell me about can you tell me

670
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: about later? He just says in moral, I'm not gonna

671
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: tell you. You're already You've already yourself more. Yeah, you're

672
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: already going over I think it's I think people know

673
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: about this spot. Do the excitement. How would you gauge

674
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: the excitement Steve of Turkey spitting Drummond surprise right behind

675
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: you too, like uncovering a giant Morrel, or here's what's

676
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: exciting about Morrell's. It's not the one. It's that you're walking,

677
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: walk and walking finding then you read like how it

678
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: always goes to eventually register a Morrel. And then you

679
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: got the site picture and you look up and maybe

680
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: it's the only damn Morrell around, which happens, but but

681
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: also you get the site picture and you're like, Okay,

682
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: that's what I'm looking for me, that's what it looks

683
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: like in this context. And then you look in low

684
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,439
Speaker 1: and behold, there's a dozen of them around. Sometimes they'll

685
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: be shining in the light. And then you're like, oh

686
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: my god, oh my god. And then you walk back

687
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: and you've been like you pass some big because you

688
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: didn't have the right image in your mind. And then

689
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: you're like wow, and then you got Morrell's. Yeah. That

690
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: that is the moment when you look up and the

691
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: sun has kissed these wonderful guy. Want to tell you something.

692
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: One of the last Morells I picked. You want to

693
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: see a magical Morell moment? When the last Morrells I

694
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: picked was underwater? Yes, a creek had risen. You ate it.

695
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 1: I see a Morrell out of the water on a bank,

696
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: a creek bank. I see h Morell out of the water,

697
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: and I look and I see a submerged, great condition

698
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: Morrell because the creek had just come up from snow melt,

699
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 1: and that was the only underwater Morell I've ever picked.

700
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: Seaweed underwater, Morale underwater, slightly concerned I would save either's like, like,

701
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: what it's it's fungus anyway, So I don't drink water.

702
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: Do you have a problem of water in the water

703
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: swamp creatures? Let's talk the mountain stream. Okay, go on,

704
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 1: all right, we will nudge this along, everybody. Everybody, get

705
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: on on on Morrell muster excited about Morrell's. I plan

706
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: on hunting Morrell's this spring with my children. It's a

707
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 1: great activity for kids. Um, you'll also run into oysters.

708
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: Oysters are great. Uh another good spring washroom and if

709
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: you get them before the worms, it's real nice. Now

710
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: I'm morrell spots are something I'm gunning for so watch out, Bosman.

711
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: If you got a spot and you're willing to give

712
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: it up, I'm coming for it. A lot of people

713
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: like I'll tell you about it later. I don't want

714
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 1: to tell everybody. I'm gonna use the F word. Yeah, oh,

715
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: I know about that going It ain't what you do

716
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: when you're fighting and moving on, all right, Today's interview.

717
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: The interview portion of today's podcast is UM with the

718
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: Sportsman's Alliance. Guys you've had on your podcast before, Evan

719
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 1: and Brian Um and we talked about a lot of things,

720
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: but we did talk about and it's it's an interesting interview.

721
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: I tend I think we've got off track on just

722
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: the current culture around anti hunting and animal rights groups,

723
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:14,919
Speaker 1: and you get off track talking about that, you don't

724
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: really go anywhere subjective. But we did talk about a

725
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: thing that they are currently fighting against, which is the

726
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 1: banning of kayty killing contests, and specifically in this case

727
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: New Mexico. And I would say that would you agree,

728
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:34,919
Speaker 1: Steve state Land Um and this is and this goes

729
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: to some other what I would call executive over reached

730
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 1: to the Governor of Jersey banning bear hunting on state lands.

731
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: Um and some other precedents that have been set around

732
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: the country. Show you continue listening, you'll hear me talking

733
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 1: to those guys about that. But I wanted to get

734
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: Steve specifically your opinion on when you just think about

735
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: from your hunting experience, from your perspective, neither of us

736
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: our experts on KYARTI you know, killing contests. I have

737
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,439
Speaker 1: not done the research, as you'll hear, um, and wanted

738
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: to get some opinion from those guys from the source alliance.

739
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: But as as a hunter who also often thinks about

740
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: ethics and the way that we go about taking and

741
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: killing an animal, do you have you know those overarching

742
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: thoughts on killing contests of this nature. Years ago, when

743
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: I was starting out as a writer, one of the

744
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: first sign the first not the one of the first

745
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: assignment I got from Outside magazine was to go participate

746
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: in a shark tournament and montalk Montalk Long Island on

747
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: Talk New York. UM. I remember seeing the world, I

748
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 1: remember seeing the seeing the I had. I didn't go

749
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,240
Speaker 1: into the city. I remember seeing the World Trade Center

750
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,879
Speaker 1: towers and it wasn't long later they were no longer there.

751
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: Um and went out to do this thing that was

752
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: called Mako Madness, and they like bat and there's like

753
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: side bets in a pool and everybody puts money in

754
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: and you go out and you try to kill the

755
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: biggest shark. And while doing my reporting, I participated in

756
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: the tournament. I like observed on a boat. UM. And

757
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: while doing the reporting, I went and talked to a

758
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: writer by the name of Carl Safina who wrote a

759
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: book Song for the Blue Ocean, who was a fisherman

760
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: UM and he had remember I think you'd tell me

761
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: he had a bunch of mako shark in his freezer.

762
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 1: And I was talking to him about the shark tournament,

763
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: what his feeling was about the shark tournament, and he

764
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: said that he doesn't like attaching a carnival atmosphere to

765
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:49,240
Speaker 1: the killing of large, beautiful animals, which is a tricky

766
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 1: position for him to be in, because uh he does

767
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: he does fish for macOS, but he didn't like that

768
00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: carnival atmosphere. On the other hand, I have all so

769
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: uh we hunted in Elroy, Wisconsin one time, UM, and

770
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 1: the local bar had a turkey derby and you go

771
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: in and if you went in before season and kicked

772
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: in five bucks or whatever the hell it was. You

773
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: kick in five bucks and you enter your name in

774
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 1: the turkey thing, and then when you get a turkey,

775
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: bring it down to the bar and they weigh it

776
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: and whoever gets the biggest turkey win some money. Um,

777
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: I registered made the mistake of killing turkey and gutting

778
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: it and then losing by a few ounces. And to

779
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 1: this day they're probably still in the Elroy bar going

780
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: he got it. Um Did I find something ugly about

781
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 1: the Elroy, Wisconsin turkey contest? No, it was in good fun.

782
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: It's like people coming together around turkeys. It wasn't sort

783
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: of changing anyone's habits and practices. The turkey hunts played

784
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: out the same way. The turkeys were killed in the

785
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: same way. A turkey being shot by some who's got

786
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: five bucks in at the Elroy, Wisconsin bar doesn't experience

787
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: a different death than a turkey being shot by someone

788
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: who doesn't have five bucks and the kiddie at the

789
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: Elroy bar. Uh So it's like a puzzling thing. And

790
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 1: it's puzzling because there's a there's aesthetics to it and

791
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: the way I look at it. For for say, the

792
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: people that are going after like it's no mistake that

793
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: they're going after coyote killing contests because the public is

794
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: gonna look and view that it's that it's unnecessary, that

795
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: that would make the case that all they're not being

796
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: used for me, that it's kind of like vengeful. Um,

797
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: that it doesn't really make sense and it's easy to attack. Yeah,

798
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: there was a senator Mark Moore's in of Albuquerque's a Republican,

799
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: who said and something I'm um, I've read I don't

800
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,720
Speaker 1: want to live in a culture of a wanton killing,

801
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: you know. And in the debate about a bill in

802
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: New Mexico to bandies New York, there's a bill in

803
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: New York to ban any form of contest that involves

804
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: the taking of wildlife. So you wouldn't be able to

805
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: have if you look at how it's worded, you wouldn't

806
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: be able to have a bass fishing tournament. You wouldn't

807
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: be able to have a walleye derby, you wouldn't be

808
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: able to raise money for the local firebarn by having

809
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: a perch contest who catches the biggest perch. So the

810
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 1: boys from the Sports and Alliance when I was asking me,

811
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: why defend this thing that is that is, you know,

812
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: from just the lens of how it looks to a

813
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: non hunter, it's not real good like you're standing on

814
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: You're standing on some shaky ground ethically and morally and

815
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: in all those things. And there's a it's a it's

816
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: a dangerous precedent to set because they feel kyarty contest

817
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: can get folks involved in predator control and management, get

818
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: people involved in those types of activities, and be away

819
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: for state gaming is just promote that interaction. Right, Yeah,

820
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 1: I don't think like I don't want I wouldn't want

821
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,399
Speaker 1: to something like that because I think it's like it's

822
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: like hard to define and and if you if you

823
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 1: have game management laws, right, we agree, there's game aage laws,

824
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: and we when we when you have a resource and

825
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: someone makes the determination that you have a harvestable resource

826
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: and whatever people's motivations are under operating within the limits

827
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: of the law. I wouldn't then go and be like,

828
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: oh so that all that's fine, but the thing you

829
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: can't do as a private interaction around it. It It just

830
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: feels like hard to define and hard to defend. So

831
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: it makes me like really uneasy. If I make a body,

832
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: if I make a friendly bet with my body like, hey,

833
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 1: first guy, biggest walleye. Uh, you don't have to buy

834
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: a beer. The other guy has to buy a beer tonight.

835
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: Do I want to be in violation of the law. No,

836
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: you do not. So we're not gonna get to any

837
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: answer of killing contests right now. Um, but we're gonna

838
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: get into the interview portion of the show where we

839
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 1: talked to two gentlemen from the Sportsman Alliance, Heavan and Brian,

840
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: about what they do, what their organization does, and why

841
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: it's some portant. I feel it is important. It can

842
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: be controversial, just like this kyote contest deal, but it

843
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: is important. So let's get started without further ado. We're

844
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: gonna travel over to Columbus, Ohio, traveling time to a

845
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: few days ago where I sat down with these two

846
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: gentlemen and we chatted about their organization. I guess I

847
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: grew up on All Day row Man. I'm in Ohio.

848
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: I'm always in Montana when I record these things anymore,

849
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: but right now I'm in Ohio. I'm in a wonderfully

850
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: adorned office at the Sportsman's Alliance. I'm joined by two gentlemen.

851
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: Introduce yourselves first, Evan Evan using Felt, President CEO of

852
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: the Sportsman's Alliance Awesome, and Brian Lynn, vice President Marketing

853
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: Communications for Sportsmen's Titles. Yeah, great titles. I always try

854
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,280
Speaker 1: to start these things off by asking folks to describe

855
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: their surroundings. So, Evan, I'm this is your office. It's wonderful.

856
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: Describe what it looks like where we are. Well, we've

857
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: got some really really nice wallpaper, um, and some really

858
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: really pretty blue carpeting. But outside of that, now it's

859
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: a it's a nice space. You know. We got a

860
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: nice little half oval office in here that you can

861
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 1: put some mounts up on. And yeah, it's presidential. Yeah,

862
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: oh yeah, absolutely, leather chat it's nice and you talk

863
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 1: and you're we're saying before hit record that this used

864
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: to be something else. Yeah. So this office allegedly at

865
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: one point was a local humane society or animal shelter

866
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: where they they dealt with rescue pets and putting animals

867
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: down and all kinds of interesting stuff that has an

868
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: interesting kind of dichotomy into the world we're talking about.

869
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: That's we like irony, yes, and now here we are,

870
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 1: um quickly because we're gonna dive into a bunch of things.

871
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: But quickly Brian tell us about Source A lines what

872
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: it does, and then, um, Sportsman's Alliance Well been around

873
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: for about forty years and the only reason we're around

874
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: is to protect hunting, fishing, and trapping from the animal

875
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: rights movement specifically, so anybody comes in tries to stop it,

876
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: we come in and start fistfighting. It's a simpler, simple

877
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 1: boiler plate. Yeah. I like it not much too. We're

878
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: pretty we're pretty straightforward. And Nevin, you were telling me

879
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: that this for some reason, this year on the legislative

880
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: side of things has been the most active year you

881
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 1: can remember. Absolutely. Specifically as you look at the state legislatures. Um,

882
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: you know have a couple of things that come into

883
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: play there, one of which is forty eight of the

884
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 1: fifty state legislators are starting their new sessions this this cycle. UM,

885
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: so you have a whole bunch of new legislation that's

886
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 1: being introduced, but specifically it relates to hunting and fishing

887
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: and trapping issues. This year has been as as crazy

888
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: and is as as busy of a year as I

889
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,439
Speaker 1: can remember. Uh, in my time at the organization, We've

890
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: seen bills all up and down the both sides of

891
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 1: the country, all throughout the country. I mean, it's just

892
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: been it's been just a huge volume of attacks from

893
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: the animal rights community, and you feel like that's a

894
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 1: call eimination of things or just a happenstance or just why.

895
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's Yeah, it's a confluence of things. Right.

896
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: You look at, um, the inability to get very much

897
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: done at the congressional level right now, there's a lot

898
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: of grid luck there. Obviously, there's there's partisan issues that

899
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 1: we're dealing with. UM. So obviously the animal rights community

900
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: isn't going to get a lot of headway there specifically

901
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: for our issues. UM. And secondarily to that, the federal level,

902
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,919
Speaker 1: they don't deal with a lot of state I'm sorry,

903
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: they don't deal a lot with hunting regulations, right, I mean,

904
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: you're talking about endangered species and migratory species are the

905
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: primary items they're touching most of the most of the

906
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: hunting rules and regulations are done at the state level anyways,

907
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 1: and so you see a lot more of the direct

908
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: attacks from the animal rights and anti hunting community at

909
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: the state level. UM. And so that's a vehicle for

910
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: for the other side to go after. It's not hard

911
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: to get a bill introduced. Uh, it's not hard to

912
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 1: push your agenda. And and part of the uh, the

913
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 1: strategy is to spread us thin. It's kind the death

914
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: by a thousand cuts approach. Right. If you can attack

915
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 1: us all over the country, then our ability to defend

916
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: ourselves is is put on um. But put the test. Yeah,

917
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: And you see it all the time, and I'm been

918
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: keen to it in recent years. Of the strategies that

919
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: are that are undertaken by you know, quote unquote the

920
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: animal rights folks like it. It is strategic, and it's communication,

921
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 1: it's strategic, and its organization and how they attack these

922
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: legislative things. Most it was most relevant to me around

923
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: the greater Yellowstone ecosystem grizzly bears. UM to see animal

924
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 1: rights folks applying for tags with a couple of famous

925
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: photographers that I can think of applying for tags with

926
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: the idea that they were going to They were applying

927
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: in protest. And that's a dangerous precedent. And there's a

928
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: lot of dangerous I mean, what what you guys do.

929
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 1: It feels to me like there's just a lot of

930
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: dangerous precedents floating around and you're always trying to fight

931
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: against these presents being said in a legal sense and

932
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: just in a sense absolutely, and they spread to you know,

933
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: these are things that you know, it pops up in

934
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: one state and it might fester there for a year

935
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: or two or three and not get much traction. Uh.

936
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: And we've seen that this year with with coyote contests

937
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: and other type of um bands and they're trying to

938
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 1: push but all of a sudden they start spreading and

939
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: you see these coordinated attacks and so, you know the

940
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 1: stuff like you mentioned in Yellowstone, where you're you're seeing

941
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: these very coordinated messaging campaigns, You're seeing very coordinated legislative

942
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: and legal attacks. You know, the animal rights community has

943
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: a lot of money. I mean, they're they're sitting on

944
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,359
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of dollars collectively that they're you know,

945
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: that's at their disposable to come and attack our way

946
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 1: of life. And so I do think it's a you know,

947
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: it's it's something we have to be aware of because

948
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: for for many people in our community, I mean, we

949
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: like to think of the hunting community is kind of

950
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: a very similar culture, but there's there's very siloed people

951
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: in there. You know, your your deer hunter. You're a

952
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 1: Western hunter, You're you're an upland game guy. You know,

953
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: you might be a duck hunter. You know, you have

954
00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: a primary passion most of them, most people do. Um.

955
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: You know. So we're already taking what is a community

956
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: of hunters and and siphoning it down to much smaller

957
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: pockets of individual hunters who are really focused on well,

958
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: I want to go climbing a tree stown this week.

959
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to think about what's going on halfway

960
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: across the country, UM and think about how that can

961
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: apply to me in my state or what I can

962
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: do to help those folks. Yeah, yeah, we hear about

963
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: that a lot. People say, Listen, man, I don't care. Yeah, yeah,

964
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,439
Speaker 1: I don't. This doesn't affect me. This isn't in this

965
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 1: isn't in my neck of the woods, this is in

966
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 1: my back forty. I get to do what I want

967
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: to do. I will. I want to go outside, I

968
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: want to have fun. I want to go hunting. That's

969
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: what it's about for me. I don't want to be

970
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 1: stragged like I don't want to talk politics. I don't

971
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: want to hear that all the time. And the to

972
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: one degree I agree like, I'm with you, man, but

973
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 1: somebody has to. Yeah, As as a community, we don't

974
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,399
Speaker 1: just wait till the wolf set the door. We wait

975
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: till he's in the bedroom with us, climbing in bed

976
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: and you know, ready to chow down. It's like it's

977
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: last minute. And then it's always a scramble to try

978
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,240
Speaker 1: to protect it, you know, and we see that spreading,

979
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 1: and they use political pressure, you know, if they can

980
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: get something past in one state, they pressure the governors

981
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: and the legislators and neighboring states saying, hey, the neighbors

982
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: your your neighbor did it here? You know, these animals

983
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: deserve the same treatment. And you know it's all emotional

984
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: language and and stuff, so you know, certainly it's again

985
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: it gets back to what you just said, where if

986
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 1: it's not my passion, it's not my back forty, then

987
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: it's kind of out of sight, out of mind. I

988
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: don't have to pay attention to it. Somebody else will

989
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,399
Speaker 1: take care of it. But you know, we we've seen

990
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: with these these bills this year, there's an emotional response

991
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 1: that that the other side is capitalizing on and we're

992
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 1: gonna lose in the court of public opinion on that

993
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: very easily, and so we have to be engaged. We

994
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 1: have to be in the fight or or these rights,

995
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: these these privileges that we have to go out there,

996
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 1: they're gonna road quickly. Yeah, do you guys, I've always

997
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,359
Speaker 1: I've bounced back and forth. I think people listen, let's

998
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: probably know that. But there's part of me that says, like,

999
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: we can there's a few things we can clean up

1000
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 1: in our community, and and being pragmatic and open about

1001
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 1: it's like there's there's things we can clean up. But

1002
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: at the same time, like I just said, there's a

1003
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: lot of things that I believe that we should stand

1004
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 1: firm on um and push forward on rather than just

1005
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 1: take the take the blows and punch back. So how

1006
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: do you guys, in your professional maybe even your personal

1007
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: the pursuits, like, how do you balance those things? I

1008
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,359
Speaker 1: think it's tough, you know, I mean, you know, these

1009
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 1: are conversations that aren't aren't meant for the drive by media.

1010
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:27,760
Speaker 1: They're not meant for the you know we're talking about earlier,

1011
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: the general public who just reads a headline doesn't understand

1012
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 1: the full story. Um, these are conversations that take time

1013
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 1: to have, and I think they're they're they're worthy of

1014
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: having um. But it's it's it's tough because the other

1015
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: side wants to portray us in a certain light. And

1016
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: sometimes we can play into that, and in other times,

1017
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: you know, they're just they're using the maniplative tools of

1018
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 1: emotion to try to get, uh, to elicit a response

1019
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: from the general public or from the legislature, from whoever

1020
00:54:56,280 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 1: their their target target audience is. And you know, they

1021
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: want to take the fun out of hunting, right. They

1022
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: don't want you to understand that it can be fun,

1023
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: and it can be solemn, and it can be fulfilling,

1024
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: and it can be a family. You know, there's a

1025
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: lot of dimensions to what we do UM in the

1026
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 1: hunting space, in the conservation space. Uh, the other side

1027
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 1: wants to portray a specific way, and we've got to

1028
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 1: be careful not to fall into that trap of letting them,

1029
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: letting them dictate what that is, what it can be. Yeah,

1030
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure you guys are like me. Sometimes

1031
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: I look, I'm like, oh no, he did that. Well yeah,

1032
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: And that's the thing is like we shouldn't apologize for

1033
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: being hunters, but we don't have to antagonize and sometimes

1034
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 1: we're our own worst enemy, you know, with photos or whatever. Um.

1035
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 1: You know, coming from a magazine background, there's just simple

1036
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 1: rules you follow. You know, clean, clean animal, good pictures.

1037
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: You know, framing this and that, not being stupid or

1038
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: disrespectful or whatever. It doesn't always have to be solemn.

1039
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 1: I mean, smile, this is part of it. But you

1040
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: know what you see blow up in the media or

1041
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: is usually you know, some big eye on mammal from

1042
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: Africa or somebody doing something stupid, posing with it in

1043
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: a stupid manner, and the animal rights movement seizes on

1044
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,919
Speaker 1: that uses it against us, and then you see knee

1045
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:15,399
Speaker 1: jerk legislation here or abroad. I mean there was over

1046
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 1: in Scotland with the gul who killed the goat. I

1047
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: mean now they're talking about not having goat hunting over there,

1048
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:26,879
Speaker 1: and you know you see knee jerk legislation by politicians

1049
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: to appease their the voters. Yeah, that's the tough part

1050
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 1: because I mean a lot of these these conversations don't

1051
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: come to easy solutions. They're complicated. There's nuance to it,

1052
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,720
Speaker 1: there's there's depth to it. There's complexity to these issues

1053
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: that you can't make a snap to judgment on her.

1054
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 1: You're gonna make big mistakes. Yeah, and it's wildlife management.

1055
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 1: You know. The ironic thing about the animal rights movement

1056
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 1: is at the end of the day, they're undermining the

1057
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: proper management and balance with the habitat and predators and prey,

1058
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: and everybody suffers. The animals suffer, the habitat suffers, the

1059
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 1: other the other animals within the ecosystem, and eventually there's

1060
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 1: conflicts with humans. I mean, yeah, for sure, let's try

1061
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 1: to do a couple of things before we get into

1062
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 1: specifics um is there any way this may not be possible,

1063
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 1: But do you guys ever think about how to how

1064
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: to define intangible terms the animal rights movement, like what

1065
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 1: are the major players? Because if we were too, for example,

1066
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 1: try to find the gun rights movement, we could start

1067
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: with the n A and work our way down into

1068
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: the different organizations to kind of make up the center,

1069
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: at least the core of that movement in community. Do

1070
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: you guys, when you think of the animal rights movement,

1071
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: you have the major players in your head all lined up?

1072
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: That would make sense to folks listening in here. Sure, yeah,

1073
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: you see the same people in the same organizations in

1074
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: the fight every time starts at the Humane Society, the

1075
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: United States Center for Biological Diversity, Sierra Club, Defenders and

1076
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: Wildfiders Wildlife Live Free. Yeah, there's there's I mean there's

1077
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: a lot. You know. Obviously, h s U S. Humane Study,

1078
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: United States is the big dog. Um, they're the one

1079
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: that has the most financial resources. Uh, they're the ones

1080
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: that's probably the most active and legislative efforts. UH. CBD

1081
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: and Defenders are more on the litigation side of things. UM,

1082
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 1: similar agenda, similar goals, but certainly coming at it from

1083
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: a different policy perspective. There's other groups to their smaller

1084
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: that are more regional. And I mean there's there's dozens

1085
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: and dozens and dozens of of these types of organizations. UM.

1086
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: You know, most people point to PETA as the most

1087
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: you know, visually iconic, like you think of them first,

1088
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: and and we don't really see them in the state legislatures,

1089
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: you know, we don't see them in the courts. You know,

1090
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: they tend to be more prst their their media hors

1091
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: just looking for the headlines. And yeah, man, that's a

1092
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: nice takeaway for me and from hopefully everybody else listening. Well. Yeah,

1093
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: and Humane Society is the one that you gotta be

1094
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: worried about. They've got the financial resources, they've got lobbyists

1095
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: in the state. They're the ones that that the general

1096
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: public don't understand. They don't represent your local humane society.

1097
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: They're not an umbrella organization for them. There there are

1098
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: an advocacy organization that's working, you know, based out of Washington,

1099
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: d see, working to end your way of life. It

1100
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you're a hunter, a rancher, a farmer,

1101
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: uh wrote, you know, if you do the rodeos, I mean,

1102
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: anything they want to end and you just eat vegetables,

1103
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: which is ironic because animals die protecting the vegetables that

1104
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: are being raised for them. So I don't know, That's

1105
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 1: all I can say about that. Yeah. So, so you

1106
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: would break it down that way, and from a legislative side,

1107
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: you know, kind of break that down. Who do you

1108
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: see most often and are there you know, we always

1109
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: kind of start with the predators situation, because that seems

1110
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: to be where, you know, the center point of these conversations.

1111
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 1: But breakdown a little bit on the legislative side, who

1112
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 1: you're defending yourself against, you know, and what the battle

1113
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: looks like in general. Yeah, I mean I think you know,

1114
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: it can vary wildly by state. You know, a lot

1115
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: of a lot of it's funneled down through the local

1116
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: groups too, But I would say the humane side is

1117
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 1: probably the number one legislative threat um. You know, you'll

1118
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 1: see a SPC, You'll see CR Club Foundation, these other

1119
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 1: groups that are ants literally involved in some of the issues.

1120
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: Not not as much in the direct attacks on hunting

1121
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: rights and and and pursuits, but H s U S certainly,

1122
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 1: that's certainly a big part of what they do and

1123
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 1: who they are. They're they're number one. I mean, they're

1124
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: they're the top of the list, the richest, the one

1125
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: with the media cloud, with celebrities on their side, you know.

1126
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 1: I mean conservatively, they have a hundred and fifty million

1127
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: dollar a year budget. It's actually I mean that's just conservative.

1128
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 1: It's usually closer to two million per year, you know,

1129
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 1: and they're raising money left and right, and they'll just

1130
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: flood these different states with legislation that they want to pass,

1131
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: and they'll take a bit here and take a bit there.

1132
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: I Mean, Evans said it before, we have to win

1133
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: every single time. They just have to win once, and

1134
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: they take it away, you know, so it doesn't hurt

1135
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: them to get a friendly politician to introduce something, doesn't

1136
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: cost him anything, right, So they get somebody to introduce it.

1137
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: It doesn't work, they can try three or four times.

1138
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 1: It's not going to cost them anything. And if they

1139
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 1: could pass it, they win and they're moving the football

1140
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: down the field. That doesn't work, then they can go

1141
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 1: to the courts, or they can go to the ballot box,

1142
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 1: directly to the ballot box, and then it gets into

1143
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: a rural versus urban fight and we're in trouble. Yeah, well,

1144
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: he said, it's a it's a game of precedents. Right.

1145
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 1: If you set a precedent but a legal standpoint, you've

1146
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 1: kind of won the game and they don't even have

1147
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: to do it. Always from the legal perspective, obviously, the courts,

1148
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,479
Speaker 1: you know, when you get a precedent in in law

1149
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: from from a lawsuit, that's that's like you just said,

1150
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: it is very important, but they can also set a precedent. Look,

1151
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 1: California just did this, Why aren't you protecting animals the

1152
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 1: same way? Why aren't you putting in these X Y

1153
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: Z standards? And then they can spread that around the

1154
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: country and then it moves and you see the stuff.

1155
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 1: You know, it starts in California, it goes up the

1156
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 1: coast there, hops over to maybe Colorado or down to

1157
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 1: New Mexico right now, and then it moves, you know,

1158
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 1: to other states. And we've seen it time and time again.

1159
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: You see it on bear issues, you've seen it on

1160
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: the coyote contest issues. That's not by happenstance. It doesn't

1161
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: just magically happen that way. You know, there are people

1162
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 1: that are pushing those um, those changes, and they're using

1163
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: the precedent of it happening in one state. They just

1164
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 1: need that foothold. This is a real thing. This is

1165
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 1: a pathway to change. It's not just it's not anger anymore.

1166
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:14,439
Speaker 1: It's it's a pathway to make change happen. Um. It's

1167
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: dangerous and it carries through It's it's not just you've

1168
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: highlighted the very very i'd say, maybe the first of it,

1169
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: but it can also carry through past that. And so

1170
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: what we've seen typically happen is they'll seize upon one

1171
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:30,439
Speaker 1: of these media incidents, whether it's one of the big

1172
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: ones that goes viral all across the country or well,

1173
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: that's just a local thing and then they'll blow it

1174
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: up in the media there and that causes the need

1175
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: to do something. And then so then they'll push it

1176
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: through the legislature. And if they failed the legislative level,

1177
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 1: that gives them the impetus to say, look, we tried,

1178
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: and you know, the the elected officials just aren't listening

1179
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: to the will of the people. The people are outraged,

1180
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: the people want answers, and then they'll take it either

1181
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: to court or they'll go to the ballot box and

1182
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 1: they'll take it right to the voters. If if there's

1183
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: a state that you can do that in um and

1184
01:02:58,200 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: and and you saw it, we saw it in Maine

1185
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 1: on the black apar issue. They start with legislation, couldn't

1186
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: get it done. That was their impetus to drive it

1187
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: to the straight to the voters. And beyond that you

1188
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 1: could see it uh Cecil the Lion. You know that

1189
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: has led to them trying to push import bands in

1190
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: Newark and uh New York. So if you can shut

1191
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 1: down the import you've shut down the entire East coast

1192
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: pretty much of bringing those animals back. So you've now

1193
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: put another hurdle up and doing that. But beyond that,

1194
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: We've now seen that they are using cecil to stop

1195
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 1: mountain lion hunting in America. They've equated the American mountain

1196
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 1: lion with the African lion, and we have to save

1197
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 1: these animals. And they have their reports which are just

1198
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 1: you know, put together stats, and now they are trying

1199
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 1: to get that passed throughout the West, you know, and

1200
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 1: we see it. They've tried to put it in Arizona

1201
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 1: and stop mountain lions. We see them working in Colorado

1202
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 1: right now trying to infiltrate and stop the hound hunting

1203
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:04,479
Speaker 1: in Colorado through fishing wildlife or through the state fishing game.

1204
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 1: It's all about seizing upon those opportunities, right, I mean,

1205
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: that's that's where those shards. Is this do you guys

1206
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: believe because you're in it every day, I'm not. I

1207
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: usually I visited for a minute and I go back

1208
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: to my normal life. Um, I just believe this is

1209
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 1: a this is a cultural shift or is this just

1210
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 1: what animal rights folks have been doing since the sixties

1211
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: and seventies. I mean, it's just is it is it

1212
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: one long draw or is it is it a such

1213
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 1: a shift in culture to create an environment for this

1214
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 1: stuff to flourish because it certainly seems like a pretty

1215
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: full proof way to get done what you want to

1216
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: get done. It's it's been pretty steady. The the the

1217
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 1: M I has been pretty steady. What it was changes

1218
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 1: the ability for the average person to engage with it, right,

1219
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: social media, the the the the the advent of twenty

1220
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 1: four hour news cycles and this idea that you're no

1221
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: longer just getting your news out of the newspaper or whatever.

1222
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 1: You're getting your your news instantaneously on your phone. So

1223
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 1: you're you're digesting it all the time in that twenty

1224
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 1: four hour news cycles, like they needs content. Plug that hole.

1225
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: So let's revisit it again and again and again, this

1226
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 1: other you know angle and then this talking head saying this,

1227
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: and bring on the animal rights movement guy who can

1228
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: talk about this, And so it's it is a cultural

1229
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: The messaging the m has been the same since the seventies,

1230
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: but we've become more urbanized and that's what it boils

1231
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 1: down to a little bit. And now we've got this

1232
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 1: culture of media and constant feeding and bombardment and outrage. Again,

1233
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 1: that was our that was our thing with the Cecil incident,

1234
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 1: is that it's just a rush to judgment. We don't

1235
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 1: have any facts, Like, let's just pump the brakes and

1236
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:39,280
Speaker 1: like take a day or two and let's get the

1237
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: facts and then we can then we can litigate what

1238
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: actually happened. But instead, like you said, the media needs

1239
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 1: the narrative now, it doesn't have to be right. It's

1240
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 1: tests me what they can put on the air right now.

1241
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 1: And so you you can continually have that cycle. You

1242
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: gotta feed and the other side, like you said, the

1243
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 1: urbanization of the country, you've got people who are losing

1244
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 1: connection with where their food comes from. They've lost all reality.

1245
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 1: I mean, food shows up in the supermarket wrapped in

1246
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: plastic and that's good to go. Like there there's no

1247
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: animal behind that. No animal got hurt in the creating

1248
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 1: of this steak. Right, And so these kinds of the

1249
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 1: cultural shift that's taking place is now being married with

1250
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: the technological shift that took place that give us instant

1251
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 1: access to all this information. And then you you, you know,

1252
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 1: you stack on top of that their playbook and it's

1253
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 1: it's a recipe for disaster for our community. Yeah, I

1254
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 1: mean I think it when you say, when you when

1255
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 1: you put it together like a recipe one part of this,

1256
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,960
Speaker 1: one part, that little dash of this, it starts to

1257
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 1: become clear of how this manifested itself and such. Like

1258
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 1: I said, there's shocking to me if you really start

1259
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 1: to look at the pathways that different. This information is

1260
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 1: used to open up to get real change to happen,

1261
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 1: to get real effective change about how we think about wildlife,

1262
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:54,280
Speaker 1: how we manage wildlife, how how we talk about speak

1263
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: about wildlife. Well, I mean I like to think that

1264
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 1: there's somebody, maybe even hs us, that wakes up in

1265
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,720
Speaker 1: the morning just like I do, and thinks that they're

1266
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 1: doing the right stuff. Oh that that that they believe it,

1267
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 1: they believe it. Yeah, No, I mean this basically I

1268
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 1: look at it as religion. I mean it's like they

1269
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 1: probably for the most part, believe they're doing the right thing.

1270
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: I mean, they've drank the kool aid and whatever else.

1271
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's an emotion on an emotional feed forum.

1272
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 1: It's not science based. It's not looking at consequences and

1273
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,959
Speaker 1: repercussions of their own actions. I mean, if they wanted

1274
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 1: to do that, they'd be looking at California and Washington State,

1275
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 1: where they've taken away hounding of Mountain lions and everything else.

1276
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 1: There's more mountain lions being killed than there was before,

1277
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: and they're the wrong ones, and that there's all sorts

1278
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 1: of evidence to support that their policies don't work. But

1279
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:45,439
Speaker 1: it's not a hunter that's doing it. It's the state

1280
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 1: that's doing it. And it's a need, as they say

1281
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: or whatever. And so yeah, I believe they're probably a

1282
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 1: lot of them think they're doing the right thing. But

1283
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: if they actually care about animals, they look at the

1284
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: consequences repercussions of their policy. Well, this scary part is

1285
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 1: we've we've lost you know, we've lost the facts and

1286
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 1: all this stuff, right, you know, the facts don't tend

1287
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 1: to matter anymore. It's the emotion that matters. And so

1288
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 1: you look at it, and I'd love to have a

1289
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 1: conversation with these guys, but it at some point, like

1290
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 1: if you could get a true, honest, you know, reaction,

1291
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 1: not the the agenda side. But you look at like

1292
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:18,839
Speaker 1: the wolf issue in the in the western Great Lakes States,

1293
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: there's like four times as many wolves today in those

1294
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: states as was the recovery goal when they put them

1295
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,880
Speaker 1: on the endangered species list to start with, four times

1296
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 1: as many and oh, by the way, right north of

1297
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 1: the border, they're interconnected with a whole bunch of wolves

1298
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: up in Canada. And yet we're still facing litigation. We're

1299
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:37,920
Speaker 1: this is been going on since the mid two thousand's,

1300
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 1: trying to get wolves properly delisted in return to state management,

1301
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: and these groups are fighting on the opposite side of

1302
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 1: that to keep these species listed in perpetuity because they

1303
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 1: haven't quite recovered yet, and you need to do this,

1304
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 1: and you need to do that. It's not about how

1305
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: many wolves there are. It's not about the population levels

1306
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,160
Speaker 1: or whether or not there are enough. It's about technical,

1307
01:08:57,439 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 1: you know, nuances in the law that they can they

1308
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:03,679
Speaker 1: can use to push that final policy agenda. And so,

1309
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:06,720
Speaker 1: you know, we've lost that kind of ground of let's

1310
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 1: let's do this on science, let's do this on facts,

1311
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: let's do it on on the basis of, you know,

1312
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 1: what needs to be talked about, and instead of being

1313
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 1: done because we see wolves in in in Yeah, I've

1314
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: never never be that said, man, you know what, Yes,

1315
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:22,719
Speaker 1: A not into it, and I don't believe it should

1316
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 1: be most hunters, I guess I believe the ESA is

1317
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: a crucial piece of legislation along with many others that

1318
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:31,439
Speaker 1: have been enacted to to allow conservation this country to

1319
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: flourish in the way that it has. While I published

1320
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 1: to flourish the way they have, but it has to

1321
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 1: be used properly with the intent of its you know,

1322
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 1: of its creation, not manipulated too to the benefit of

1323
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 1: one side or the other. Bill horn Our, our our

1324
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: director of Litigation and Federal Affairs one time, one time

1325
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 1: called the Hotel California approach to wildlife management. You can

1326
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 1: check in, but you can never check out. That's not

1327
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 1: how the Act was designed or intended to be used.

1328
01:09:57,200 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 1: It was intended to be used as a tool to

1329
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:02,840
Speaker 1: take speed issues that were in peril, in need of help,

1330
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 1: get them recovered, get a plan in place, and then

1331
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 1: return them back to state management once they have. And

1332
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 1: we've seen some of the greatest conservation success stories come

1333
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 1: out of that. Right. You talk about wolves, you talk

1334
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:14,600
Speaker 1: about grizzly, but I mean these are iconic species that

1335
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,640
Speaker 1: have been brought back from the brink through these programs,

1336
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 1: through the dollars that are spent by hunters and and

1337
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,440
Speaker 1: and recreational target shooters to to put money into conservation.

1338
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 1: We should be celebrating these things as conservation milestones and

1339
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 1: success stories, and yet we're left in the courts for

1340
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:35,000
Speaker 1: a decade just trying to litigate our way through the morass. Yeah,

1341
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you get We'll get into specifics

1342
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:40,000
Speaker 1: here in a minute, but how do you get an

1343
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 1: environment where we can have the right conversation both in

1344
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 1: public forum and in the more private legislative forum, like

1345
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: where you're arguing for something, Because it is there a

1346
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:52,679
Speaker 1: way to get back to having the private conversation, because

1347
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 1: I would hope that someone at this point I think

1348
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 1: it's a legal battle. And that's the tough part is

1349
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 1: so the ESA was designed to do this and it

1350
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 1: worked that way for decades, and now somebody with an

1351
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: agenda can come along and here's what happens with law.

1352
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: And that's what we get so busy and bogged down

1353
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 1: in is looking at every piece of legislation and then

1354
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 1: the definitions of words that are used within that. You know,

1355
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:24,040
Speaker 1: what constitutes wildlife? It sounds easy, but when we're talking kyote,

1356
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: you know bands that we've been working on, it's like, okay,

1357
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 1: what does wildlife mean in Oregon? Then you have to

1358
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:31,040
Speaker 1: go through the code and the government guys are going

1359
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 1: through the code mean, well, here it means this, and

1360
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 1: here it also means penn raise berts. So yeah, it

1361
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 1: could impact field trials. And so now it's like that's

1362
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: what they seize upon, are these loopholes or legal arguments

1363
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 1: that you can make in court. And that's where we

1364
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:46,599
Speaker 1: just get tied up for a decade or more, you know,

1365
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 1: And I don't even know if it's possible to have

1366
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 1: a public discussion on it anymore, because there's two sides

1367
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 1: that are too too far apart, and science is going

1368
01:11:57,400 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 1: to lose to emotion every single time. Well, it's there's

1369
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 1: there's another wrinkled this as well, which is back to

1370
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 1: the idea that the public and the media really we're

1371
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 1: not we're not doing deep dives anymore. Sure, podcast I

1372
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: think podcasts might be the one way that can actually

1373
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 1: start to crack through that because it's a much deeper

1374
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:17,200
Speaker 1: dive format. But Facebook post and stuff like that, you know,

1375
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 1: that's that's most people are just reading the headlines, maybe

1376
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 1: a paragraph or two. They might read the lead, and

1377
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 1: then they're moving on to something else. The problem with podcasts,

1378
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:26,120
Speaker 1: the problem with social media, and problem with all these

1379
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:29,479
Speaker 1: things is that they're typically Um, you're typically talking to

1380
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 1: your own audience, right, You're not getting outside your Yeah,

1381
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:34,880
Speaker 1: it's equal chain. Nobody else is listening, So you know,

1382
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 1: to have that conversation that crosses across those barriers, it's

1383
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 1: gonna be really tough, especially when people don't want to

1384
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 1: take the time to have those lengthy conversations or to

1385
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 1: absorb a lengthy program on that kind of thing. Man,

1386
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 1: you want to start, you want to watch somebody's eyes

1387
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 1: glaze over, start talking about Pittman Robertson and how that

1388
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 1: all works. Yeah, take my money, I don't care. Yeah. Yeah,

1389
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:57,680
Speaker 1: you do it with a non hunter and they're like,

1390
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:00,920
Speaker 1: uh huh. We were just in a a VP thing

1391
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:03,679
Speaker 1: and Q and A and I was sitting with Ronella

1392
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 1: and Kellahan and the Honest and somebody asks about our three,

1393
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,800
Speaker 1: like this are three program. I'm really psyched, psyched about it.

1394
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,439
Speaker 1: And Steve gave the best response I've ever heard. He said, listen, man,

1395
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 1: you're never gonna market or sell something. If you're like,

1396
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 1: please come do it. No one else wants to do it.

1397
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 1: Please come and do it. Because it's dying. It's there's

1398
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 1: less people doing it than ever, so please come and

1399
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 1: join us like, that's not the way that taking a

1400
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:36,680
Speaker 1: bye to something that's really awful tasting, then asking your

1401
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: neighbor you want you're trying to enact change at a

1402
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,439
Speaker 1: global scale that really takes a million people to do

1403
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:49,760
Speaker 1: the action, and not just one change, right, It's it's

1404
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 1: everybody has to be engaged in that. It can't be

1405
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: just one plan, it can't just be one program. It's

1406
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 1: got to be change that comes down at a at

1407
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,759
Speaker 1: a cultural level to who we are as hunters. And

1408
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: I just want to go get a tree stand or

1409
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 1: I just want to go out and do X, right,

1410
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to necessarily give up my season to

1411
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:09,880
Speaker 1: go help somebody new. And that's the cultural mindset shift

1412
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 1: we're trying to have in the industry and have throughout

1413
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 1: the community that people need to understand that that's you know,

1414
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 1: that is going to lead us further down the path

1415
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:21,720
Speaker 1: that we've been going down. And so without having that

1416
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 1: mindset shift and having that change where you're thinking about

1417
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 1: it from a different perspective, then we're gonna get the

1418
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 1: same results that we've been getting. And and that's a tough,

1419
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:32,800
Speaker 1: tough change to an act and I'm not quite sure

1420
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 1: how you do it at scale. Yeah, and I have, well,

1421
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:37,559
Speaker 1: in my own mind, I've tried to paint this picture

1422
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 1: like how do we get to where we are today?

1423
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:43,040
Speaker 1: And there's so much to know to get there? You're like,

1424
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 1: how do we get to less hunters than ever? That's

1425
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,519
Speaker 1: a that's that's not only a societal shift, it's a

1426
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:50,960
Speaker 1: cultural shift. It's like we were talking about earlier, it's

1427
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:55,759
Speaker 1: the fertile ground for uh, environmentalists and and for animal

1428
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 1: rights activists to do their stuff. Um, it's a fertile

1429
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:02,439
Speaker 1: ground for both sides in the polarization to start to

1430
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:05,640
Speaker 1: push people away from something. Uh. Not only that was

1431
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:07,640
Speaker 1: like how do we how do we connect that the

1432
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:09,400
Speaker 1: managing wildlife? How do we connect that to a lot

1433
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:12,040
Speaker 1: of things? Why is this thing shrinking the way that

1434
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 1: it is. It is a complicated puzzle, there's you know,

1435
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 1: and a lot of it does boil down to urban

1436
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:21,559
Speaker 1: versus rural. I mean, whether you're talking about understanding where

1437
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:25,679
Speaker 1: your food comes from, being out in nature, how it works.

1438
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 1: You want to talk the gun issue, I mean the

1439
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:31,240
Speaker 1: guns in the rural and urban settings are two different

1440
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 1: beasts to talk about. It's an interesting thing to study

1441
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:36,040
Speaker 1: and we've we've we've kicked it around. We've never actually

1442
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 1: gotten up far enough up the to do list to

1443
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 1: get get it checked off yet. But you know, we

1444
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: we like to think that, oh, well, we can just

1445
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:44,519
Speaker 1: create hunters anywhere, but there's really big pockets of this

1446
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:46,880
Speaker 1: country where you're not going to create hunters very easily.

1447
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,880
Speaker 1: You know, like southern California, l a, Like, how far

1448
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 1: is that person gonna have to drive or fly to

1449
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:54,719
Speaker 1: be able to go hunting. Somebody lives in New York City,

1450
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, downtown Chicago. These folks don't have

1451
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:00,599
Speaker 1: access to the places to go to do those kinds

1452
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 1: of activities. So how are you gonna make that person

1453
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:04,800
Speaker 1: a hunter if they're not already there? So you know,

1454
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:07,120
Speaker 1: you know, you look at all we got three million

1455
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 1: people in this country or whatever it is now, Well,

1456
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 1: not all of those are our target. We were not

1457
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:13,639
Speaker 1: gonna get every single one of those. We can't possibly

1458
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:15,040
Speaker 1: get every single one of those because they live in

1459
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,920
Speaker 1: places that are isolated from that. You marry that with

1460
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 1: the idea that there's there's also been this baselining of

1461
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:24,600
Speaker 1: of expectations for people today. The wildlife just happens, It

1462
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:27,400
Speaker 1: just exists. It's just there. You know, for for the

1463
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:29,920
Speaker 1: most part of for the most part, people who are

1464
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:32,799
Speaker 1: adults today have never lived in a time where wildlife

1465
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:36,160
Speaker 1: was truly imperiled. Most of the species are healthy and thriving.

1466
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 1: You know, we have a few that have to be

1467
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:39,679
Speaker 1: you know, taken care of them, put on the essay

1468
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 1: and dealt with that way. But you look at the

1469
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 1: recoveries over the last twenty and thirty years of these

1470
01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 1: species that were listed. I don't know, it's it's it's tough.

1471
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:50,600
Speaker 1: How do you how do you bridge that gap and

1472
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:53,920
Speaker 1: get people who don't understand and don't have access to

1473
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 1: even understand, you know, they're not out there. And you

1474
01:16:57,479 --> 01:16:59,559
Speaker 1: look at Michigan. Michigan is a great example of this, Right,

1475
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 1: we're the wolves in Michigan. They're in the up where

1476
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 1: all the people they're not in the up right, and

1477
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 1: so can you. There's a there's a disconnect between what

1478
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:12,559
Speaker 1: the what the citizen voter thinks and and sees and

1479
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: understands of wolves. Yeah, it's from cartoons, it's from children's books.

1480
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:18,559
Speaker 1: It's it's the plush toy that kid carries around for

1481
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 1: the first three years of its life and on the

1482
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 1: ground management that the folks in the up are dealing

1483
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 1: with when the wolves are overrunning everything. How do you

1484
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:29,800
Speaker 1: marry those two and find that happy medium? And then

1485
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,120
Speaker 1: and then you've got this special interest group telling you

1486
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:34,720
Speaker 1: that this is good. And there are these big, beautiful,

1487
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:38,160
Speaker 1: iconic creatures with all this lower attached to them, and

1488
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: the emotion a lot, you know, emotion, and people play

1489
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:44,720
Speaker 1: into emotion, whether it's at the ballot box or what

1490
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:48,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's the facts non't matter. Well, we were

1491
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 1: talking about it a certain article and outside of magazine

1492
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:53,800
Speaker 1: where um oh gosh, i'n I don't miss his name up,

1493
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 1: but there's a photographer who was real close with a

1494
01:17:56,120 --> 01:18:00,240
Speaker 1: wolf in Yellowstone. I was recently killed by hunter, and

1495
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 1: he wrote this glowing review of her life in which

1496
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 1: she struggled through adversities and raised her children and was

1497
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 1: a valiant, valiant beast. And while I understood his relationship

1498
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:17,719
Speaker 1: with the animal because I very much have similar relationships

1499
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:20,719
Speaker 1: with with the animals that I see when I'm hunting

1500
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:23,559
Speaker 1: or the ones i'm hunting themselves, he's like he he

1501
01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 1: just skipped one huge part of its life, like he removed.

1502
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 1: It's the wolfness from the wolf anthropomorphization. I always get

1503
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:36,719
Speaker 1: that word wrong. I was saying a lot. But he's

1504
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 1: removed it, conveniently removed it. And so I was thinking, well,

1505
01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 1: what if we would go back and ask him to

1506
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 1: put the wolf back in, like put the actual wolf

1507
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,920
Speaker 1: back in. And and when you're talking glowingly about its triumphant,

1508
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 1: it's it's the way that it raised its children, the

1509
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 1: way that it was part of a pack. Also talk

1510
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:58,479
Speaker 1: about how it ate the asshole out of a mule deer. Like,

1511
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 1: also talk about how it took a fawn and ripped

1512
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:03,879
Speaker 1: its throat out and ate it alive while it was screaming.

1513
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,479
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. To that audience, it does not matter.

1514
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:09,880
Speaker 1: They say that's nature and that's okay. Yeah, And you're like,

1515
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:12,360
Speaker 1: well wait, you know, and they're like, no, it's mine.

1516
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 1: Nature balance itself, which is the greatest myth that's out there.

1517
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 1: It's the greatest myth that's being perpetuated. We have impacted

1518
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 1: the landscape to such an extent. Nature does not balance itself. Well,

1519
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 1: that's what you said, Like, there's no, there's no part

1520
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 1: of Michigan that isn't that is undisturbed. It's all disturbed. Yeah,

1521
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 1: we've disturbed everything, whether cities, farms, roads, you know, and

1522
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 1: not to manage this in accordance with the habitat is

1523
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 1: irresponsible yea. And it starts to me to seem like

1524
01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:42,200
Speaker 1: we're just traveling down these parallel tracks where the more

1525
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 1: humans there are, the more complicated wildlife management becomes and

1526
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:49,640
Speaker 1: cohabitation becomes, and the more complicated becomes, the more simplified

1527
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 1: our media intake becomes, and the simpler the message that

1528
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 1: we're looking for, and the least the less complex we're

1529
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:58,040
Speaker 1: willing to get with the subject. So as those things

1530
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:01,439
Speaker 1: travel in time, we're fucking headed towards them meeting all

1531
01:20:01,479 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 1: in general where people just like, look, we get wildlife

1532
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 1: manage it is, so you guys just don't mess with it,

1533
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:09,400
Speaker 1: just stay out. We don't need hunters anymore. But but

1534
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:13,639
Speaker 1: there's definitely parallel tracks there that that that are if

1535
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:15,840
Speaker 1: you're not, if you're looking hard enough, what you guys are,

1536
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:19,919
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty damn You talk to anybody in Africa,

1537
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,519
Speaker 1: and there's not a wildlife problem in Africa. There's a

1538
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 1: people problem. Uh was it? Ethiopia? Has the population of

1539
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:30,959
Speaker 1: the United States crammed into something the size of Texas

1540
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 1: and then they've got elephants and rhinos and everything else

1541
01:20:34,320 --> 01:20:38,040
Speaker 1: living right there. Okay, go turn some something loosen in

1542
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 1: Central Park and see what happens. You know. It's yeah,

1543
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:43,280
Speaker 1: our population is growing and this is becoming more and

1544
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 1: more of a problem when Yeah, simple answers and simple

1545
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 1: sound bites aren't going to get it done. That's true. Well,

1546
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 1: let's get to something that we can would probably take

1547
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 1: another hour to discuss what we'll try to do it

1548
01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 1: pretty quickly here. Anyway, we're talking about at the office

1549
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:04,520
Speaker 1: the other day, m trapping. We thought, oh, the California

1550
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:08,360
Speaker 1: governor said trapping should be over. We don't need trapping anymore.

1551
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:11,000
Speaker 1: Trapping should be over, Brian, you and I were talking

1552
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:14,880
Speaker 1: about the new Jersey governor taking action on state lands

1553
01:21:16,439 --> 01:21:18,599
Speaker 1: and in regards to bears. We're also talking about that

1554
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:22,280
Speaker 1: in other states regarding charity contest. So, Lissa Evan, can

1555
01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 1: you just break down the proliferation of this kind of

1556
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 1: state run um prohibition on some of these things. Yeah, Well,

1557
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:33,759
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's there are different ways to enact

1558
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 1: policy change at the legislative level or the regulatory level,

1559
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 1: and certainly the state executive has some authority to do

1560
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:42,800
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Uh. And and this is where

1561
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:46,680
Speaker 1: it gets some challenges of apples to apples, comparisons to

1562
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:48,960
Speaker 1: each state. Starsman a little different place. Every state's a

1563
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:51,639
Speaker 1: little a different setup. Um. But you look at state

1564
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 1: like New Jersey and New Jersey governor came out and

1565
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 1: basically banned black bear hunting on all state lands, just

1566
01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:00,479
Speaker 1: issued in executive order. DP commissioner went through and eight

1567
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:04,080
Speaker 1: days later it was banned. And it just you know,

1568
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:08,320
Speaker 1: it's baffling, it's it's frightening, and it should be frightening

1569
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:10,000
Speaker 1: to anybody who lives in a state that is moving

1570
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 1: in that direction or is already there. You know, you

1571
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:14,800
Speaker 1: look at you know, like you said that California, that's

1572
01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:16,160
Speaker 1: a state to me that would be right for this

1573
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 1: kind of thing in the future. Um, you know, we've

1574
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 1: seen it and was in New Mexico with the state

1575
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:24,760
Speaker 1: trust lands that's nine million acres that they just she

1576
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 1: shut it down because I felt like it didn't want

1577
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 1: didn't want that to take place in contest coyote contest

1578
01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:32,479
Speaker 1: by executive orders. So now we got a precedent that's

1579
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:34,760
Speaker 1: starting to take hold of seeing this trend, got it

1580
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:37,080
Speaker 1: in New Mexico with kayok contest. Now you got it

1581
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:41,920
Speaker 1: in Jersey with black bears. You know, literally, the Jersey

1582
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:44,400
Speaker 1: governor came out on Facebook and did this great, big

1583
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 1: social media post about how he was going to end

1584
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 1: the bear hunt and this was the starting place, and

1585
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 1: he just decided that's what he wanted. That was his

1586
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:54,840
Speaker 1: campaign promised to the animal rights movement in Jersey. That

1587
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 1: is that is the scariest of the scary for me. Yeah,

1588
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:01,000
Speaker 1: and that happened in British Columbia as well, where politicians

1589
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 1: are campaigning, they're on the stump for these issues. Absolutely,

1590
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 1: and and and certainly it's it's it's I mean to me,

1591
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:09,760
Speaker 1: it's just terrifying to think that you can have a

1592
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:11,600
Speaker 1: governor walk in the door and just say, you know what,

1593
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 1: that's just gone. It's just off the table. It's completely gone.

1594
01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:18,000
Speaker 1: You know, access to public land. Sorry, state, state in

1595
01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:20,080
Speaker 1: public land, shut it down. And you know, okay, So

1596
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 1: in Jersey, it's what a fifty or seventy percent of

1597
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,320
Speaker 1: the of the land to hunt on. Yeah, it's a

1598
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 1: significant amount of land. It's you know, you've got if

1599
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:32,600
Speaker 1: if all the states, you've got a hugely densilated population

1600
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 1: of people, a huge, dense population of bears right on

1601
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:38,759
Speaker 1: top of each other, and you're gonna take away about

1602
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:41,559
Speaker 1: forty of how they kill bears. I mean, there's forty

1603
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:44,800
Speaker 1: of the bears are taken on public land. And so

1604
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:48,879
Speaker 1: population is already going up. It's already skyrocking, skyrocking. Populations

1605
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:50,719
Speaker 1: are sky rocking up and down the Holy East Coast.

1606
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:52,640
Speaker 1: So what's that governor? Did you guys listen to what

1607
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: that governor say? Because I haven't, Well, what's that governor say?

1608
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 1: When they when they're campaigning on this, do they mention

1609
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 1: the actual wildlife management? And while in the wildlife science

1610
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 1: and volvetire there's no science again, it's just headline where

1611
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:05,880
Speaker 1: a sound bite society. And I'm going to do this

1612
01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 1: for you because this is the right thing to do.

1613
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:12,080
Speaker 1: To man, there's there's a time when while animal rights

1614
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 1: sentiment is i think always boiling around like they're like,

1615
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:19,280
Speaker 1: that is for it to get to the level where

1616
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 1: it's one of the things you can't paign on. That's

1617
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:24,439
Speaker 1: a change, and that's a seat change. Yeah. Yeah, And

1618
01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:27,200
Speaker 1: he even said, he even acknowledged when he did it

1619
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 1: that he couldn't stop the bear hunt completely because of

1620
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:33,519
Speaker 1: a lawsuit we fought in two thousand five. He would

1621
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:35,599
Speaker 1: if he could, but he couldn't, and so he's gonna

1622
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:38,160
Speaker 1: take what he could, and that was state controlled lands

1623
01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:41,280
Speaker 1: acting as a manager. Yeah. Well exactly, he's acting as

1624
01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 1: a as a as a landowners instead of a regulator. Right,

1625
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:46,240
Speaker 1: he's not. He's not the arm of government regulating how

1626
01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:48,360
Speaker 1: you hunt. I'm just the land over here owner telling

1627
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 1: you I don't think you should do that anymore. It's

1628
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:53,000
Speaker 1: like it's back to the law, you know, like this interpretation.

1629
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:54,880
Speaker 1: If you were to bring in our all of conservation

1630
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:57,439
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're like, hey, hey, bro, see

1631
01:24:57,439 --> 01:25:00,760
Speaker 1: this thing where it says like states these animals and

1632
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:04,720
Speaker 1: trust like you can't. Just so the interesting part was,

1633
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:07,840
Speaker 1: you know, the the order basically was just just a

1634
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:09,840
Speaker 1: political order. Hey, we're not doing this any more. There

1635
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:12,719
Speaker 1: was no science, There's no there was no record built

1636
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:14,679
Speaker 1: that said this is why we're going to do these things.

1637
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:16,920
Speaker 1: Even if they even they provide the record that was

1638
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:20,479
Speaker 1: you know, not correct, that would be something. There was

1639
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 1: no supporting evidence for why he made this move. And

1640
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:25,639
Speaker 1: that was part of our lawsuit is it's just completely

1641
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:28,720
Speaker 1: arbitrary decision. There's there's no basis in science. There is

1642
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 1: a duly enacted bear management plan that's done by the

1643
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:35,639
Speaker 1: Fish and Game Commission over there, that's approved, it's been

1644
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:39,360
Speaker 1: in place. There's your hunting bears under it. You can't

1645
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 1: just walk in with with your magic want and say

1646
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:45,320
Speaker 1: by and just to have the plan disappear. You gotta

1647
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:46,840
Speaker 1: go through the same kind of process. You gotta have

1648
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:49,080
Speaker 1: public input, you gotta give the reasons in the record.

1649
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:51,960
Speaker 1: You know these things matter. And for him just to

1650
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:54,200
Speaker 1: walk in the door and just off with their heads

1651
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:58,479
Speaker 1: executive over each Yeah, apply that to the rest of

1652
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:01,360
Speaker 1: the country. Whatever govern or decides they want to do,

1653
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 1: they can do that. Stop trapping, stop hounding, stop bad stop.

1654
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:08,120
Speaker 1: Like I said, it connects connects back to where we're

1655
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 1: talking about earlier. When public sentiment is such that you

1656
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:12,360
Speaker 1: can stand on the stump and be confident that you

1657
01:26:12,400 --> 01:26:15,200
Speaker 1: will get elected into a state as the governor and

1658
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:18,400
Speaker 1: say these things. That is, it doesn't matter if it's

1659
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:20,519
Speaker 1: one state out of fifty. It's enough for me to

1660
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:24,280
Speaker 1: be be really worried about our ways of life, you know,

1661
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:26,560
Speaker 1: And as we always say, like they'll work around the

1662
01:26:26,680 --> 01:26:31,800
Speaker 1: edges as you guys see, and it's it that goes

1663
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 1: to another point that it's tough to get consensus in

1664
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:39,920
Speaker 1: our own community about these things. It's tough to get

1665
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:43,559
Speaker 1: consensus about like say, baited bear hunting, which is I've

1666
01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:45,000
Speaker 1: talked about a lot, which I feel like it's the

1667
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:51,400
Speaker 1: very roundabout conversation right Ethically, it's got some some positives totally,

1668
01:26:51,439 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 1: and that has some negatives, right, Like it's hard to

1669
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 1: get there. So how do you guys, when you go

1670
01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 1: forward this type of legislation do you go forward with

1671
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:02,320
Speaker 1: that in mind that listen, even in our own communities,

1672
01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 1: we might get some kickback on this here thing, but

1673
01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:08,080
Speaker 1: we we're doing this because we feel this needs you know,

1674
01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:11,599
Speaker 1: this action, this unilateral executive action, needs to be challenged. Yeah,

1675
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:13,240
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things that for us as

1676
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 1: an organization, we we don't enjoy the ability to always

1677
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:19,839
Speaker 1: dictate the agenda, right, you know, we have to respond

1678
01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:22,439
Speaker 1: to what the other side is doing. Um because like

1679
01:27:22,479 --> 01:27:25,479
Speaker 1: you said, we're we're trying to protect ground, not necessarily

1680
01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:27,240
Speaker 1: gain new ground. We'd love to gain new ground. That's

1681
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:29,400
Speaker 1: the Families of Field program and other things we do

1682
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:32,920
Speaker 1: try to open up new access and new opportunities. At

1683
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:34,519
Speaker 1: the end of the day, most hunters just want to

1684
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:36,840
Speaker 1: do what they're already doing. And so you know, it's

1685
01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:39,040
Speaker 1: a defense first mindset. Oh, I can't tell you what

1686
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 1: state it's going to be, but you know I can

1687
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:42,960
Speaker 1: give you some ideas, probably California, maybe something on the

1688
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:45,160
Speaker 1: East coast. But you've got to fight the fight where

1689
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:47,599
Speaker 1: they are. You know, you can't pick and choose and say, well,

1690
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:49,240
Speaker 1: we're not gonna go and fight this fight because it

1691
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:51,640
Speaker 1: looks like a loser. Well, then you're just giving them

1692
01:27:51,640 --> 01:27:53,120
Speaker 1: an easy win and they're gonna take that and then

1693
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:55,679
Speaker 1: redirect those resources to another state and it's just gonna

1694
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:57,720
Speaker 1: hop around the country until it gets to your backyard.

1695
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:00,479
Speaker 1: So at some level, you have to be willing to

1696
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 1: engage in these fights. You have to be willing to

1697
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:04,720
Speaker 1: stand up and and and and protect what's right, you know,

1698
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:07,240
Speaker 1: and protect what you believe in. That's that's really what

1699
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:09,320
Speaker 1: it comes down to these days, and and and we

1700
01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:12,000
Speaker 1: need people to do that. Yeah, but it's it's like

1701
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:14,080
Speaker 1: I said, it's hard to sit back, like what do

1702
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:17,599
Speaker 1: we believe in? Right? Um, Coyotes is an interesting one

1703
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:19,840
Speaker 1: for me because there's such. I mean, I grew up

1704
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:22,679
Speaker 1: on the East Coast where if we wanted to hunt

1705
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:25,200
Speaker 1: a coyote in Maryland, at least in the area where

1706
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 1: we would get our license, you had to go to

1707
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:29,599
Speaker 1: the library and take a trapping course because they had

1708
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 1: bundled together the hunting of coyotes, the legal hunting of coyotes,

1709
01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:35,160
Speaker 1: and the trapping coots and one nice little They may

1710
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 1: have changed it since I've lived there and been about

1711
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:39,040
Speaker 1: eight or nine years, but that was how it was

1712
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 1: now at the same time. So it made me very

1713
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:43,800
Speaker 1: difficult for me as a hunter my dad, if I

1714
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:45,599
Speaker 1: wanted to hunt a coyote, I had to go through

1715
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:49,519
Speaker 1: huge steps. At the same time, Wyoming is paying a bounty.

1716
01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 1: Other states are paying a bounty on kives. So there's

1717
01:28:53,160 --> 01:28:57,080
Speaker 1: this this mixed messaging even from a hunting you know,

1718
01:28:57,120 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 1: even from a state game agency standpoint around the country,

1719
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:02,400
Speaker 1: what are we really doing with these things? They live

1720
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,080
Speaker 1: in this very landscapes. They live in swamps, they live

1721
01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:07,840
Speaker 1: in open grasslands, they live and they live everywhere you can.

1722
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:10,400
Speaker 1: They live in dense forests everywhere you can think of

1723
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:13,479
Speaker 1: in they live in cities, live in your back whatever.

1724
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:18,160
Speaker 1: Cats and rats, so they're creating this very conservation ethic

1725
01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:20,519
Speaker 1: around what you do with the fucking kir and how

1726
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:22,599
Speaker 1: to handle it. Is a game? Is a non game?

1727
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:24,559
Speaker 1: Do you need a license? Do not need a license?

1728
01:29:25,320 --> 01:29:27,760
Speaker 1: Everywhere you go? It's different, Yeah, it's different. So how

1729
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:30,240
Speaker 1: do you then get to the thing like kyote contests

1730
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 1: and come up with the right answer? Just remove the

1731
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:36,400
Speaker 1: animal rights thing for a minute. There's plenty of hunters

1732
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 1: to be like kyote contests. We don't even need them anymore.

1733
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:40,160
Speaker 1: We don't want them. It's not something we want to do.

1734
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:42,360
Speaker 1: What do you say to those people. I'm not saying

1735
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:45,080
Speaker 1: that's mean, but I certainly can see both sides of

1736
01:29:45,080 --> 01:29:47,360
Speaker 1: that argument. Sure, I think I think yeah, at the

1737
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:48,479
Speaker 1: end of the day, you look at it from a

1738
01:29:48,479 --> 01:29:50,639
Speaker 1: couple of perspectives, one of which is that these are

1739
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:53,519
Speaker 1: tools for wildlife managers, right. You know, it's not just

1740
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,960
Speaker 1: a you know, one single kyote contest isn't going to

1741
01:29:57,360 --> 01:30:01,000
Speaker 1: make a population level impact, But it's a tool that

1742
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:03,920
Speaker 1: people can use to get engaged, to to spread the words,

1743
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:06,240
Speaker 1: to incentive iceed folks to be out there and thinking

1744
01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 1: about that. You know, the average person is probably not

1745
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:10,519
Speaker 1: thinking about going on kyote hunting or going out and

1746
01:30:10,880 --> 01:30:13,080
Speaker 1: participating one of these derbies. But they might see it

1747
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:15,280
Speaker 1: on social media, they might hear their friends talk about it.

1748
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:17,840
Speaker 1: They might understand the impacts then start thinking about these things.

1749
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:19,640
Speaker 1: You know, at the end of the day, it's you know,

1750
01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:23,599
Speaker 1: all hunting and fishing at some levels of wildlife management

1751
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:26,960
Speaker 1: tool you know, trapping included, and so you look at

1752
01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:29,360
Speaker 1: it from that perspective. It it gives that additional tool

1753
01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:32,040
Speaker 1: to wildlife manager to use and their toolbox of how

1754
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:34,320
Speaker 1: they're going to manage these populations. And they are prolific,

1755
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:37,760
Speaker 1: they're everywhere, but you know, the idea that they can

1756
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:39,439
Speaker 1: be Like you said, there can be a bounty in

1757
01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 1: some states. I think South Carolina was just looking at

1758
01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:43,320
Speaker 1: that this year. I think it's a couple of years

1759
01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:45,720
Speaker 1: ago that they did that. Um I remember reading that

1760
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:47,880
Speaker 1: and being interested in that. I mean a couple of

1761
01:30:47,880 --> 01:30:49,800
Speaker 1: states south where I grew up. It's like, now we

1762
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:54,680
Speaker 1: have a ballet on coyotes. So that's kind of what's

1763
01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:57,880
Speaker 1: what's biologically sound? You know, what can what can the

1764
01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:03,599
Speaker 1: population take with the habitat and in balance, and if

1765
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:06,439
Speaker 1: it's sound, leave it alone, leave it in the hands

1766
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:09,240
Speaker 1: of the biologist, you know, and you want to get

1767
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:13,360
Speaker 1: into hypocrisy and irony is like, okay, we three of

1768
01:31:13,439 --> 01:31:16,479
Speaker 1: us can't go together and throw into a pot, you know,

1769
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:18,599
Speaker 1: twenty bucks into the pot, which everyone kills the most

1770
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:21,200
Speaker 1: coyotes wins the sixty bucks. But the steak can give

1771
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 1: us a boundy or something on the thing. So why

1772
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:26,320
Speaker 1: is it okay for public funds to be used to

1773
01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 1: incentivize hunters to kill coyotes but private funds can't. I mean,

1774
01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:32,960
Speaker 1: there's just irony all to have a contest over who

1775
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:36,280
Speaker 1: kills the biggest buck, but not who kills the heaviest coyote?

1776
01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:39,280
Speaker 1: Like where where do you start drawing those lines? If

1777
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:42,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna draw lines, how do you figure out, you know,

1778
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 1: the difference between black and white. There's a whole bunch

1779
01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:46,040
Speaker 1: of shades of gray in there. And that's and that's

1780
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:48,519
Speaker 1: where the animal rights movement lives. It's a circular argument.

1781
01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:51,320
Speaker 1: There is no right answer. If they can get a

1782
01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:54,280
Speaker 1: toe hold into coyotes, they'll apply it to big bucks

1783
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:58,080
Speaker 1: if they can get you know, long range shooting is

1784
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:01,080
Speaker 1: not ethical by their standard, while at the other end

1785
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:03,720
Speaker 1: of the spectrum, using traditional bows isn't either you know,

1786
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:06,120
Speaker 1: one's unfair the other is crippling, and so it's a

1787
01:32:06,160 --> 01:32:09,920
Speaker 1: circular argument. I'm not gonna win. I feel I wish

1788
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:11,720
Speaker 1: I had like I wish I had been a part

1789
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:13,519
Speaker 1: of a Kuyty contest. I wish I had like a

1790
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:16,519
Speaker 1: better I wish I could talk more on I was

1791
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:19,000
Speaker 1: more educated on. I'm just not so it's interested here

1792
01:32:19,640 --> 01:32:23,120
Speaker 1: that side of it. But one thing I would say

1793
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:27,599
Speaker 1: about this in terms of what's crippling, I've had trouble

1794
01:32:27,640 --> 01:32:31,800
Speaker 1: recently looking at fair chase principles and seeing those things

1795
01:32:31,840 --> 01:32:34,040
Speaker 1: as not being crippling to the hunting community and the

1796
01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:36,559
Speaker 1: way that we're talking about right now, these fair chase principles.

1797
01:32:37,360 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 1: Even if you start talking to Boone and Crockett and

1798
01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:41,840
Speaker 1: he started saying, okay, wait a minute, what's fair chase

1799
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:46,320
Speaker 1: and what's not in this situation, it's so varied, it's

1800
01:32:46,360 --> 01:32:49,479
Speaker 1: so difficult to pin down what really is fair. And

1801
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:51,439
Speaker 1: the idea that we even have to have a principle

1802
01:32:51,479 --> 01:32:54,759
Speaker 1: of fair chase means we are struggling with it from

1803
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:58,320
Speaker 1: from all of our personal experiences to what's ethical based

1804
01:32:58,360 --> 01:33:00,599
Speaker 1: on our value systems of where we can up how

1805
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:03,479
Speaker 1: we were taught where we were taught, why we were taught,

1806
01:33:04,479 --> 01:33:08,599
Speaker 1: anthropomorphizing it ourselves when you get down at this. So

1807
01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:10,680
Speaker 1: that's why you know, the default is to look back

1808
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:14,160
Speaker 1: and let what is biologically sound. Because where you're growing

1809
01:33:14,240 --> 01:33:15,840
Speaker 1: up on the East Coast and I grew up on

1810
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:18,960
Speaker 1: the West coast, two different sets of how to hunt

1811
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:21,479
Speaker 1: and how to do it. The culture is very different.

1812
01:33:21,479 --> 01:33:23,559
Speaker 1: There's a big parts of this country where you know,

1813
01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:26,960
Speaker 1: they chased deer with dogs, and there's there's other parts

1814
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:28,720
Speaker 1: of this country. Just you told somebody that that their

1815
01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:31,640
Speaker 1: eyes would light up and just be like, you're joking, right, No,

1816
01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:34,440
Speaker 1: I mean there's cultural shifts that are that are interwoven

1817
01:33:34,479 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 1: in there as well that that have different viewpoints. So

1818
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:41,479
Speaker 1: if we go too far down that ethical hole or

1819
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:44,680
Speaker 1: this rights whole or whatever, we play into their hands, right,

1820
01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:47,840
Speaker 1: and then you're crippled, right, Like you're almost just by

1821
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:49,920
Speaker 1: the conversation. You and I could argue about deer dogs

1822
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:51,960
Speaker 1: all day. I could take one point, you could take another.

1823
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:54,920
Speaker 1: We'd go all day and never get to we might

1824
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:56,320
Speaker 1: get to one of the point where you're just like,

1825
01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:57,840
Speaker 1: that's how I've always done it. I don't see a

1826
01:33:57,880 --> 01:34:00,240
Speaker 1: problem with it's never heard anything before. And I'm like, well, look,

1827
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:03,599
Speaker 1: if I'm in California, I'm pissed at you hurting. It's

1828
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:07,160
Speaker 1: hurt I feel that it's hurting us as a hunting community.

1829
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:10,240
Speaker 1: I was saying, that is hypothetical. Yeah, so you struggle

1830
01:34:10,320 --> 01:34:12,000
Speaker 1: with that back and forth, You struggle with our own

1831
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:15,120
Speaker 1: circuit to logic within our community. And you guys are

1832
01:34:15,120 --> 01:34:18,120
Speaker 1: out there trying to protect it all, protect it all,

1833
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:20,720
Speaker 1: and you're asking the general public, who doesn't have that

1834
01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:23,280
Speaker 1: depth of knowledge that we even have as a hunting community,

1835
01:34:23,479 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 1: to understand it. Right, if we can't decide as a

1836
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:27,720
Speaker 1: hunting community what's right and wrong in these situations. And

1837
01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:30,200
Speaker 1: we were having a discussing the other day about shooting

1838
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:34,560
Speaker 1: a mule deer in you know, and three ft of

1839
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:37,599
Speaker 1: snow running up a ridge, and now is that ethical? Like, well,

1840
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:39,200
Speaker 1: if you asked the mule deer, he didn't give a ship.

1841
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:41,600
Speaker 1: He would probably rather you wait over there in the

1842
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:43,639
Speaker 1: snow and shoot him in a hundred yards while he's

1843
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:46,920
Speaker 1: standing there. Then stand there two hundred yards and wait

1844
01:34:47,000 --> 01:34:50,280
Speaker 1: until he can actually run to shoot him. Like we're

1845
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:54,920
Speaker 1: having the most ridiculous circular circle of conversation. Yea, where

1846
01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:57,240
Speaker 1: does it take bear hunting? For example? Right? And you

1847
01:34:57,280 --> 01:35:01,400
Speaker 1: know it's it's it's portrait as on ethical and you know,

1848
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:03,320
Speaker 1: to shoot a bear out of a tree, right, the

1849
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:05,640
Speaker 1: animal rights want crew want to say that that's the

1850
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:08,439
Speaker 1: most cruel and inhumane ways of killing bears. You can't

1851
01:35:08,439 --> 01:35:10,280
Speaker 1: shoot a bear out of tree. It's it's it's a

1852
01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:13,320
Speaker 1: it's a chip shot. It's right there. If they also complain,

1853
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:16,400
Speaker 1: then if you shoot a bear five fifty yards you know,

1854
01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:18,760
Speaker 1: so okay, So where's the sweet spot between shooting one

1855
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:21,240
Speaker 1: at twenty yards in a tree and five or six

1856
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:25,080
Speaker 1: or seven hundred yards away? How do you define that?

1857
01:35:25,120 --> 01:35:26,760
Speaker 1: How do you legislatively define that? How do you put

1858
01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:29,960
Speaker 1: that in law? Oh yeah, there's well I've talked about

1859
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:32,240
Speaker 1: the baiting thing before, and I've I've said, okay, if

1860
01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:34,400
Speaker 1: I was probating, I would say this. If I was

1861
01:35:34,439 --> 01:35:38,240
Speaker 1: a master bater, this is what I was saying, which

1862
01:35:38,320 --> 01:35:42,280
Speaker 1: I am master, I would say when it comes to

1863
01:35:42,280 --> 01:35:44,280
Speaker 1: bears or any other animal, depending on how it is.

1864
01:35:44,280 --> 01:35:46,519
Speaker 1: But bears are hard to sex. They're hard. This gives

1865
01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:54,160
Speaker 1: it right back to masters. They're hard to sex. There's

1866
01:35:54,200 --> 01:35:56,639
Speaker 1: a lot of that you can never catch these bears. Um,

1867
01:35:56,680 --> 01:35:58,559
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that make that are difficult.

1868
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:00,040
Speaker 1: A lot of people that are spot stuck bear and

1869
01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:02,559
Speaker 1: make a lot of mistakes for the sex of a

1870
01:36:02,560 --> 01:36:04,679
Speaker 1: bear in the age of a bear, to the point

1871
01:36:04,680 --> 01:36:06,120
Speaker 1: where you shoot a bear and cubs run out of

1872
01:36:06,160 --> 01:36:07,560
Speaker 1: the bush. You're like, oh, crap, I thought that was

1873
01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:10,120
Speaker 1: a boar. That was a sow. So you see that.

1874
01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:12,160
Speaker 1: So if I bait, now, I'm I'm in a different

1875
01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:14,599
Speaker 1: scenario where the the animal is closer. I can make

1876
01:36:14,600 --> 01:36:17,519
Speaker 1: it more ethical decision as to what I can select

1877
01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:20,960
Speaker 1: the animal properly and like yep, I got it, and

1878
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:23,160
Speaker 1: then I you know, you'll have somebody come so aside

1879
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:26,639
Speaker 1: go Well, unnatural collection of animals by baiting is leads

1880
01:36:26,680 --> 01:36:28,479
Speaker 1: to spread of disease. It leads to a lot of

1881
01:36:28,479 --> 01:36:31,480
Speaker 1: other things that biologically just don't work for a populations.

1882
01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:34,639
Speaker 1: Unnatural gathering of animals, it's not a good thing. Like, okay,

1883
01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:38,280
Speaker 1: well here we are. We need to articulate both of

1884
01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:40,400
Speaker 1: these things and come to some sort of you know,

1885
01:36:40,479 --> 01:36:43,560
Speaker 1: because because both of them have negative aspects to them,

1886
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:46,120
Speaker 1: you know, both sides of that argument. So I think

1887
01:36:46,160 --> 01:36:48,240
Speaker 1: that as long as we're in that position as hunters

1888
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:51,439
Speaker 1: having these very important and complex conversation about what is

1889
01:36:51,560 --> 01:36:54,120
Speaker 1: right and wrong and in specific scenarios and in both

1890
01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:55,920
Speaker 1: in general, it's be hard for you guys do your job.

1891
01:36:56,760 --> 01:36:58,280
Speaker 1: So I guess that's the only point of making good

1892
01:36:58,360 --> 01:37:04,800
Speaker 1: luck thanks man. Problem. But but I think it's don't

1893
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:08,599
Speaker 1: screw it up. Don't screw it up. Somebody's always piste off.

1894
01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:11,839
Speaker 1: Well that's it. It's I believe very important to highlight

1895
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:14,280
Speaker 1: the work that you guys are doing and that it

1896
01:37:14,320 --> 01:37:16,800
Speaker 1: can be controversy. I'm sure Kyote contest has not been

1897
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:20,000
Speaker 1: a fun one for you. Oh, I mean, yeah, you know,

1898
01:37:20,040 --> 01:37:21,880
Speaker 1: we don't, like you said earlier, we're not we're not

1899
01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:23,600
Speaker 1: debating the end of deer hunting. You know, that's not

1900
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:27,120
Speaker 1: worth the other sides targeting. They're targeting what they can

1901
01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:31,439
Speaker 1: use as perceived weaknesses the fringe, right, this perceived fringe

1902
01:37:31,439 --> 01:37:35,320
Speaker 1: elements of trappers and hound hunters and and masturbaiters, and

1903
01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:41,840
Speaker 1: those masturbaiting terrible, you know, terrible. Um, they attack those

1904
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:45,000
Speaker 1: edges and and that's that's by design. Yeah, But then

1905
01:37:45,080 --> 01:37:47,800
Speaker 1: there is with the with the mainstream deer hunter has

1906
01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:53,280
Speaker 1: to realize is that there is a consequence repercussions for

1907
01:37:54,240 --> 01:37:58,080
Speaker 1: a decrease in harvest of those predators bears, you know,

1908
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:01,080
Speaker 1: or mountain lions or hioats. If you're not having the

1909
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:03,559
Speaker 1: kyo concerts, that, if you're not using hounds, if you're

1910
01:38:03,560 --> 01:38:07,519
Speaker 1: not using bait, your success rate drops. You end up

1911
01:38:07,560 --> 01:38:10,040
Speaker 1: having more of them in the woods. Guess what they

1912
01:38:10,040 --> 01:38:13,160
Speaker 1: eat prey, They eat deer, So sooner or later, it's

1913
01:38:13,240 --> 01:38:16,960
Speaker 1: going to have a possible impact on the herd health,

1914
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:22,040
Speaker 1: state fishing game agencies. They're only move after that is

1915
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:26,920
Speaker 1: to reduce tags to hunters. So it's another circular consequence

1916
01:38:27,240 --> 01:38:32,240
Speaker 1: that's very stressful. Voice right, yeah, yeah, Well we're gonna

1917
01:38:32,360 --> 01:38:34,240
Speaker 1: end this thing with them. We're gonna try it out

1918
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:36,320
Speaker 1: a little fun. At the end of this I have

1919
01:38:36,360 --> 01:38:38,720
Speaker 1: a segmentout doing I'm trying to get people to talk

1920
01:38:38,720 --> 01:38:42,320
Speaker 1: about I almost died in the outdoors. It's called damn

1921
01:38:42,360 --> 01:38:48,519
Speaker 1: near died, um and so so a couple of us

1922
01:38:48,520 --> 01:38:50,800
Speaker 1: at this table have been in a situation where I

1923
01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:52,680
Speaker 1: don't know if we say damn near died, but we're like,

1924
01:38:53,600 --> 01:39:03,120
Speaker 1: damn those little there's sketchy trying to You're gonna be good,

1925
01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:04,840
Speaker 1: You're gonna be in a good spot here to just

1926
01:39:04,880 --> 01:39:07,960
Speaker 1: make fun of us. Let just taking the shots, Evan,

1927
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:11,120
Speaker 1: why don't you set up this scenario for the listener. So,

1928
01:39:11,240 --> 01:39:13,200
Speaker 1: just a few years ago, we were in the back

1929
01:39:13,200 --> 01:39:18,680
Speaker 1: country of Idaho hunting bears topic appropriate for today, and uh,

1930
01:39:18,680 --> 01:39:21,679
Speaker 1: we're fortunate enough to tag out early in the hunt.

1931
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:24,280
Speaker 1: And uh, while while the rest of the crew was

1932
01:39:24,320 --> 01:39:28,040
Speaker 1: out looking for for their bears, we decided to head

1933
01:39:28,040 --> 01:39:31,680
Speaker 1: into town and check out some of the local opportunities

1934
01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:36,080
Speaker 1: go hiking. Beautiful town. Oh yeah, they were running right

1935
01:39:36,120 --> 01:39:38,920
Speaker 1: through it. Gorgeous. Yeah, beautiful setting, that whole that whole

1936
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:41,240
Speaker 1: part of the country is just unbelievable, stunning. Some of

1937
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:42,960
Speaker 1: them might need to work on their guiding from what

1938
01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:46,640
Speaker 1: I understand. Yeah, well, I mean the locals might not

1939
01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:49,120
Speaker 1: have been as helpful as they could have been. Um,

1940
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:51,040
Speaker 1: So we we decided to go for a little walk,

1941
01:39:51,120 --> 01:39:54,840
Speaker 1: a little hike. We're just gonna hike. Just see the sights, right,

1942
01:39:54,880 --> 01:39:57,759
Speaker 1: We're just gonna hike around. And we decided we're gonna

1943
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:00,639
Speaker 1: go to an area. We're in the salt too, were

1944
01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:03,599
Speaker 1: we Yeah, yeah, And so we decided we're just gonna

1945
01:40:03,640 --> 01:40:06,720
Speaker 1: go hike to whatever the locals like to see. And

1946
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:09,240
Speaker 1: we went to a trail head, pulling the parking lot,

1947
01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:11,800
Speaker 1: got out, I met some very friendly locals. Were all

1948
01:40:11,880 --> 01:40:14,760
Speaker 1: must have been dressed like hunters. Yeah, well probably all

1949
01:40:14,800 --> 01:40:21,519
Speaker 1: had our our various hunting camo patterns on. Did not

1950
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:24,240
Speaker 1: help the situation. She did not well. He threw a

1951
01:40:24,240 --> 01:40:26,200
Speaker 1: little bit of gasoline on the on the on the

1952
01:40:26,240 --> 01:40:29,080
Speaker 1: smoldering embers that we didn't know we're smoldering. So there

1953
01:40:29,160 --> 01:40:33,760
Speaker 1: was a young lady who could best be described as

1954
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:37,240
Speaker 1: a hippie. Yeah, it's full on, truly oil, just the

1955
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:42,960
Speaker 1: whole whole, just full far out hippie. And we were walking.

1956
01:40:43,040 --> 01:40:44,519
Speaker 1: There was like a little table set up at the

1957
01:40:44,520 --> 01:40:46,320
Speaker 1: trail head. I don't know what I can remember what

1958
01:40:46,320 --> 01:40:48,080
Speaker 1: they were doing at the trailhead, but we were talking

1959
01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:50,040
Speaker 1: around there and she came up and asked us what

1960
01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:53,080
Speaker 1: we were doing, and Sam said something like hunting bears.

1961
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:57,320
Speaker 1: Ll ll be what we're doing here? What are you

1962
01:40:57,439 --> 01:41:01,160
Speaker 1: doing here? Knowing that she is killing there's no way.

1963
01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:03,840
Speaker 1: So the trail had diplomacy probably left a little bit

1964
01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:07,760
Speaker 1: to be desired, I would say, but she we hadn't

1965
01:41:07,760 --> 01:41:10,360
Speaker 1: gotten a conversation with her. It was she's clearly not

1966
01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:13,439
Speaker 1: happy with with our presence. And we asked her, like,

1967
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:16,439
Speaker 1: what's a good thing to go see? And she said,

1968
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:24,240
Speaker 1: goat Lake. Goat fucking l fucking goat Lake. And she

1969
01:41:24,320 --> 01:41:27,720
Speaker 1: said what else? She said, like, oh, there's a short cut, shortcut.

1970
01:41:27,920 --> 01:41:29,200
Speaker 1: So you could go the long way and you could

1971
01:41:29,240 --> 01:41:32,600
Speaker 1: take the path and you could eventually get there. But

1972
01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:35,439
Speaker 1: there's a short cut, shortcuts more better. You guys are

1973
01:41:35,520 --> 01:41:38,439
Speaker 1: rough men handled. None of the outdoors should go up here.

1974
01:41:38,439 --> 01:41:41,360
Speaker 1: You take a left, hang a left, and just keep going.

1975
01:41:41,360 --> 01:41:44,599
Speaker 1: Don't worry about those giant craggy cliffs that you can

1976
01:41:44,640 --> 01:41:46,640
Speaker 1: get cliffed out on. Don't worry about those. You'll just

1977
01:41:47,120 --> 01:41:49,320
Speaker 1: right over him and be be there. It's just I mean,

1978
01:41:49,400 --> 01:41:51,519
Speaker 1: just over the hill there. And so we got going

1979
01:41:51,560 --> 01:41:56,320
Speaker 1: and then it was me and you and Josh Dalky Sam.

1980
01:41:56,439 --> 01:41:58,920
Speaker 1: Sam didn't go with us. He peeled skipped and Sam

1981
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:01,600
Speaker 1: peeled off the way They stayed on the past and

1982
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:04,080
Speaker 1: somebody else's with us. Was just three I think it

1983
01:42:04,120 --> 01:42:07,080
Speaker 1: was just the three of us, Yeah, because yeah, it was, Yeah,

1984
01:42:07,439 --> 01:42:08,720
Speaker 1: it was just the three of us. It was just

1985
01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 1: the three of us. So we got going across this

1986
01:42:11,120 --> 01:42:15,000
Speaker 1: like real grassy meadow, up this kind of beautiful, beautiful meadow,

1987
01:42:15,120 --> 01:42:18,040
Speaker 1: up this kind of bouldered cliff like shale, kind of

1988
01:42:18,040 --> 01:42:19,960
Speaker 1: shale rock cliff, and then we were going to pop

1989
01:42:20,040 --> 01:42:22,360
Speaker 1: up over walk the bench out and we would be

1990
01:42:22,439 --> 01:42:28,160
Speaker 1: at lake super easy. It's right, there's right there, just there.

1991
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:33,479
Speaker 1: So a couple of Sam and Skip Knolls went up

1992
01:42:33,520 --> 01:42:36,639
Speaker 1: the trail, the actual trail. Yeah, because I was thinking,

1993
01:42:36,880 --> 01:42:38,360
Speaker 1: we don't have the shoes for we'll go up the trail.

1994
01:42:38,360 --> 01:42:41,160
Speaker 1: All right, well, we'll see you. We're there about I

1995
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:44,000
Speaker 1: want to say, about thirty minutes into this climb. I

1996
01:42:44,040 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 1: started to realize how fucked we were. But did you stop?

1997
01:42:49,520 --> 01:42:52,320
Speaker 1: Did you guys stop and go back? No? No, no,

1998
01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:56,599
Speaker 1: we did, but not then yeah, well yeah it took us.

1999
01:42:57,000 --> 01:43:00,799
Speaker 1: We were you kept going for Josh Dalkey Park, couring

2000
01:43:00,840 --> 01:43:03,880
Speaker 1: in this boulder field just like pop, We'll just jump around.

2001
01:43:03,920 --> 01:43:06,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, what there doing? What are we doing

2002
01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:09,160
Speaker 1: right now? We're not even doing anything. We're just like

2003
01:43:09,200 --> 01:43:12,280
Speaker 1: trying to get funked up here. And so we got

2004
01:43:12,520 --> 01:43:14,680
Speaker 1: I remember going across the boulder field and up this

2005
01:43:14,720 --> 01:43:17,240
Speaker 1: cliff and we're like, well, once we get once we

2006
01:43:17,360 --> 01:43:19,920
Speaker 1: get to the lip, it you'll be able to see

2007
01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:21,760
Speaker 1: it and we'll just go over there. We get up

2008
01:43:21,760 --> 01:43:24,679
Speaker 1: there and there's like a two thousand foot drop candon

2009
01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:28,120
Speaker 1: one side, there's a three thousand foot drop cannon on

2010
01:43:28,160 --> 01:43:30,120
Speaker 1: the other side. And we're now on a spine ridge

2011
01:43:30,120 --> 01:43:33,439
Speaker 1: that has shale on both sides and like almost no footing.

2012
01:43:34,040 --> 01:43:35,599
Speaker 1: And now we're up on the middle of this ship.

2013
01:43:35,720 --> 01:43:37,439
Speaker 1: Like we either go back through the thing that took

2014
01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:38,720
Speaker 1: us an hour and a half or two hours to

2015
01:43:38,760 --> 01:43:40,559
Speaker 1: get through, or we try to find a way down

2016
01:43:40,680 --> 01:43:43,599
Speaker 1: from here. And like I remember sitting with Evan, we're

2017
01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:47,040
Speaker 1: both like, dude, if we take the wrong step here,

2018
01:43:47,320 --> 01:43:49,400
Speaker 1: we're gone. We're gone right down that you're just gonna slide,

2019
01:43:49,479 --> 01:43:51,680
Speaker 1: kind of hanging onto a tree a little bit. You're

2020
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:55,519
Speaker 1: just you're gonna slide. Desperate, just desperate. And you could

2021
01:43:55,560 --> 01:43:57,599
Speaker 1: see that. The most ironic partis you could look down

2022
01:43:57,600 --> 01:44:00,240
Speaker 1: in the in the valley there and see wine being

2023
01:44:00,280 --> 01:44:03,320
Speaker 1: trail winding trail, and you're like, oh, there's the trail.

2024
01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:08,400
Speaker 1: Were screwed below us or whatever it was. And we

2025
01:44:08,439 --> 01:44:10,920
Speaker 1: didn't have had very little water. We were just out

2026
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:15,439
Speaker 1: for a hike. We didn't have we were we must

2027
01:44:15,439 --> 01:44:17,720
Speaker 1: have left at like maybe ten eleven am. And now

2028
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:21,400
Speaker 1: it's getting to be like three four, like dinner time,

2029
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:24,120
Speaker 1: and we're having no lunch. We're just like stuck on

2030
01:44:24,120 --> 01:44:27,599
Speaker 1: the side of the hill. And I was like, I remember, so, well,

2031
01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:29,640
Speaker 1: there's parking lot should be we just have to go

2032
01:44:29,720 --> 01:44:32,519
Speaker 1: down across here. I think we had on X or

2033
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:34,040
Speaker 1: something where we could see where we needed to go.

2034
01:44:34,120 --> 01:44:37,000
Speaker 1: But it's like, dude, it's gonna be a long way down.

2035
01:44:37,720 --> 01:44:41,040
Speaker 1: Well then skip and uh Sam came back and you

2036
01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:43,439
Speaker 1: guys weren't there, right, wasn't Didn't you leave the car

2037
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:47,760
Speaker 1: door open? We had a couple of vehicles and we

2038
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:52,360
Speaker 1: must are one vehicle and we left. We had laptops,

2039
01:44:53,560 --> 01:44:55,200
Speaker 1: our gear and there and just left the car door.

2040
01:44:55,479 --> 01:44:58,360
Speaker 1: Solid decision. I don't know who we can blame that on,

2041
01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:01,880
Speaker 1: but you know, I was obviously nobody here in the

2042
01:45:01,920 --> 01:45:05,120
Speaker 1: table I shot. Probably sad Or skipped that show. There

2043
01:45:05,160 --> 01:45:06,800
Speaker 1: was probably saying or skipped. So they went to the

2044
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:09,120
Speaker 1: bar and so they they got they went. They didn't

2045
01:45:09,200 --> 01:45:12,040
Speaker 1: didn't make the go like on the trail. On the trail,

2046
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:14,519
Speaker 1: they're like man ship that's a that's it gets to

2047
01:45:14,560 --> 01:45:16,640
Speaker 1: a point where it gets up into the basin. They're like, now,

2048
01:45:16,760 --> 01:45:19,120
Speaker 1: we're just not gonna that's a long way. We'd rather

2049
01:45:19,200 --> 01:45:21,040
Speaker 1: just go back to the bar and go drink. So

2050
01:45:21,040 --> 01:45:24,360
Speaker 1: they turned around. That's always the right answer. Two people

2051
01:45:24,400 --> 01:45:26,400
Speaker 1: here made the right decision. They go back to the

2052
01:45:26,439 --> 01:45:28,519
Speaker 1: bar and they're having a nice meal and a drink,

2053
01:45:28,560 --> 01:45:32,280
Speaker 1: beautiful afternoon, sitting on the patio signing themselves, while we

2054
01:45:32,360 --> 01:45:35,280
Speaker 1: are fighting for our lives. Yeah, hanging on for dear life.

2055
01:45:35,439 --> 01:45:37,679
Speaker 1: We barely made it out. I think Josh was crying,

2056
01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:40,360
Speaker 1: was what I heard. There was some desperate somebody had

2057
01:45:43,320 --> 01:45:45,639
Speaker 1: when somebody, do you ever get into the point where

2058
01:45:45,640 --> 01:45:47,800
Speaker 1: you get cliffed out somewhere? We're just being stupid, like

2059
01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:50,080
Speaker 1: if we if I had Onyx maps, But I'm thinking

2060
01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:52,200
Speaker 1: I think we had a map, but not Onyx maps,

2061
01:45:53,040 --> 01:45:55,240
Speaker 1: and so we knew we like, I gotta go down

2062
01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:57,559
Speaker 1: this ridge, but we're gonna have to drop down behind

2063
01:45:57,600 --> 01:45:59,240
Speaker 1: where we went up and go all the way out

2064
01:45:59,280 --> 01:46:01,320
Speaker 1: the trail, and it's gonna be another two hours before

2065
01:46:01,360 --> 01:46:03,320
Speaker 1: we get out here, or we could go back to

2066
01:46:03,400 --> 01:46:07,080
Speaker 1: where we came five hours trying to find our way back.

2067
01:46:07,120 --> 01:46:09,040
Speaker 1: Steve is ship. I think I have some pictures of

2068
01:46:09,200 --> 01:46:11,320
Speaker 1: you know, I've done some I've done some mountain climbing

2069
01:46:11,320 --> 01:46:14,559
Speaker 1: around and it's like that's that's salty or no joke, man, No,

2070
01:46:14,640 --> 01:46:18,680
Speaker 1: absolutely no. Um, but we lived. We got down. I

2071
01:46:18,720 --> 01:46:21,360
Speaker 1: remember coming down. We just like pretty much found a

2072
01:46:21,479 --> 01:46:24,000
Speaker 1: route down the canyon, dropped down onto the trail and

2073
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:27,320
Speaker 1: had to walk out, got to the car and retreated

2074
01:46:27,320 --> 01:46:30,719
Speaker 1: back to the bar where we licked our defeat, our wounds.

2075
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:34,479
Speaker 1: We learned a valuable lesson about hippie map advice that day.

2076
01:46:34,800 --> 01:46:38,760
Speaker 1: Goat rope, latet rope, the legend, the legend of goat

2077
01:46:38,800 --> 01:46:43,320
Speaker 1: rope late. Yeah, that was morons, you guys, just more

2078
01:46:43,400 --> 01:46:45,720
Speaker 1: I mean, just looking back on it, Yeah, I was

2079
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:48,120
Speaker 1: like I don't I'm sure I was one of the

2080
01:46:48,120 --> 01:46:50,160
Speaker 1: ones like, yeah, let's just go through this. Let's try

2081
01:46:50,200 --> 01:46:52,240
Speaker 1: at you guys. Let's cut across this field, me go

2082
01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:55,679
Speaker 1: up the trail, now cross the field, up the hill. Yeah,

2083
01:46:55,920 --> 01:46:58,200
Speaker 1: awfull we go. It's just there, it's just over the

2084
01:46:58,400 --> 01:47:01,160
Speaker 1: over that ridge. I don't anybody hiking anymore on those

2085
01:47:01,240 --> 01:47:03,439
Speaker 1: hunts today, we're gonna it was like, no stay in

2086
01:47:03,520 --> 01:47:09,960
Speaker 1: camp hiking, no going town, don't talk to anyone to

2087
01:47:10,040 --> 01:47:13,400
Speaker 1: help hippie hit every time tells you to go that way,

2088
01:47:13,439 --> 01:47:16,639
Speaker 1: you do not go that way. But I get her credit.

2089
01:47:16,760 --> 01:47:20,680
Speaker 1: She definitely played perfectly, played the game she played. We

2090
01:47:20,680 --> 01:47:22,800
Speaker 1: were perfectly. We weren't looking at that straw stur and

2091
01:47:22,840 --> 01:47:32,559
Speaker 1: field males talking shit, cool, good for you, go take

2092
01:47:32,600 --> 01:47:34,680
Speaker 1: a walk. It's like, give her, I'll do give her

2093
01:47:34,720 --> 01:47:37,760
Speaker 1: credit for that. The shortcut. That was a day and

2094
01:47:37,840 --> 01:47:39,519
Speaker 1: here where are we made it? We lived? But did

2095
01:47:39,520 --> 01:47:43,400
Speaker 1: you die? No, No, that's what it's called. Damn near died. Yeah,

2096
01:47:43,439 --> 01:47:46,880
Speaker 1: I felt I remember that one moment there out it

2097
01:47:46,920 --> 01:47:49,160
Speaker 1: was like, oh, we were fully clipped out to the

2098
01:47:49,160 --> 01:47:50,960
Speaker 1: pole where we're like, let's go down here and see

2099
01:47:51,160 --> 01:47:53,760
Speaker 1: what this looks like. And we start going down and

2100
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:57,040
Speaker 1: you're just gonna keep going, and then you start to slide.

2101
01:47:57,040 --> 01:47:58,760
Speaker 1: You like, well that's not good. Yeah, the pebbles are

2102
01:47:59,000 --> 01:48:01,920
Speaker 1: letting loose underneath your feed, you know, the hillside just

2103
01:48:02,000 --> 01:48:05,080
Speaker 1: letting go and oh no, no, no, no, be tired.

2104
01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:07,439
Speaker 1: You're like, weren't expecting. You're not wearing the right shoes

2105
01:48:07,560 --> 01:48:09,720
Speaker 1: or anything for this. It was supposed to just be

2106
01:48:09,800 --> 01:48:13,320
Speaker 1: like a touristy deal with like cameras around your neck

2107
01:48:13,400 --> 01:48:18,799
Speaker 1: and sunscreen on your nose, like a tourist. Oh kids,

2108
01:48:19,840 --> 01:48:23,680
Speaker 1: good fun. Remember I don't know what to remember from this.

2109
01:48:24,920 --> 01:48:27,840
Speaker 1: What what do we learn, Evan, don't trust hippy chicks.

2110
01:48:27,920 --> 01:48:31,759
Speaker 1: Don't trust hippie chicks. That's a T shirt. Yeah, Sports

2111
01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:38,400
Speaker 1: the Alliance maybe Alliance shirt, don't take advice from hippie chicks,

2112
01:48:38,439 --> 01:48:41,439
Speaker 1: saying that could be good. All right, boys, Well, I'm

2113
01:48:41,439 --> 01:48:43,040
Speaker 1: glad we can end it on a light note. Thank

2114
01:48:43,080 --> 01:48:46,160
Speaker 1: you for going out and um defending what we do

2115
01:48:46,360 --> 01:48:50,639
Speaker 1: and sticking your neck out and getting muddy for us.

2116
01:48:51,200 --> 01:48:55,240
Speaker 1: Um it is. It's appreciated and it's good works. I

2117
01:48:55,320 --> 01:48:59,679
Speaker 1: appreciate that. Thank you, all right. So yeah, I guess

2118
01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:05,719
Speaker 1: up all the road always what happened? That's it. That's

2119
01:49:05,760 --> 01:49:09,439
Speaker 1: all another episode in the books. Gotta thank Steve Rinella

2120
01:49:09,920 --> 01:49:13,760
Speaker 1: any racer or Game of Thrones expert, and Brian and

2121
01:49:13,760 --> 01:49:15,479
Speaker 1: Evan from the Sports with the Alliance for allowing me

2122
01:49:15,479 --> 01:49:18,280
Speaker 1: to come sit down with them at Columbus and chat

2123
01:49:18,320 --> 01:49:21,640
Speaker 1: about what they do. What they do is not easy. Um,

2124
01:49:21,720 --> 01:49:25,080
Speaker 1: it's not thankless because we do thank them. But they've

2125
01:49:25,080 --> 01:49:27,320
Speaker 1: got a tough spot. They've got a tough spot in

2126
01:49:27,360 --> 01:49:30,360
Speaker 1: defending hunters in the way that they do so while

2127
01:49:30,880 --> 01:49:32,920
Speaker 1: as we said in the conversation. While we always want

2128
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:37,240
Speaker 1: to remain critical of our community for the better of it, um,

2129
01:49:37,240 --> 01:49:41,280
Speaker 1: it's important to have uh you know, a lens into

2130
01:49:41,320 --> 01:49:44,760
Speaker 1: what they do. So thanks to those boys. Now we've

2131
01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:46,479
Speaker 1: got a lot of ship going on here. We've got

2132
01:49:46,479 --> 01:49:49,240
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff going on. Hopefully. If you're gonna

2133
01:49:49,240 --> 01:49:50,960
Speaker 1: be at the b h A rendeview which ends up

2134
01:49:50,960 --> 01:49:53,639
Speaker 1: being like the next week, there's a live podcast there.

2135
01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:56,320
Speaker 1: If you have tickets, we'll see you there. If not,

2136
01:49:57,400 --> 01:49:58,880
Speaker 1: I want to be all over the place. I'm gonna

2137
01:49:58,880 --> 01:50:00,880
Speaker 1: be at the field, the table dinner. I'm a siush

2138
01:50:00,920 --> 01:50:04,240
Speaker 1: chef there, so that's a ticket event as well. So

2139
01:50:04,360 --> 01:50:06,479
Speaker 1: if if you have a ticket you're holding in your hand,

2140
01:50:07,120 --> 01:50:09,040
Speaker 1: you'll see me there. Hopefully we'll hang out, could drink

2141
01:50:09,040 --> 01:50:12,479
Speaker 1: a few uh beverages together, and then I'll be hanging

2142
01:50:12,479 --> 01:50:15,200
Speaker 1: around pretty much all week. Um. I'll have a seminar

2143
01:50:15,280 --> 01:50:18,880
Speaker 1: there during the weekend, and again the live podcast on

2144
01:50:18,920 --> 01:50:22,160
Speaker 1: Friday night, the live mediter podcast, which should should be fun.

2145
01:50:22,280 --> 01:50:25,400
Speaker 1: So if you're going to b J Rendezvous Emboise, Idaho,

2146
01:50:25,560 --> 01:50:28,599
Speaker 1: look me up. I'll be there to come chat. I'd

2147
01:50:28,640 --> 01:50:31,200
Speaker 1: love to talk to you. Uh see what you're all about.

2148
01:50:31,479 --> 01:50:35,559
Speaker 1: So that's that's one thing. The other thing is, um,

2149
01:50:35,800 --> 01:50:38,360
Speaker 1: the Turkey Tour. I've had to make a few changes

2150
01:50:38,360 --> 01:50:40,439
Speaker 1: to it, but it's gonna continue. We're gonna be in

2151
01:50:40,520 --> 01:50:43,759
Speaker 1: Montana for a bunch of it. Still Idaho, it's still Oregon.

2152
01:50:44,360 --> 01:50:46,840
Speaker 1: Um through to some family stuff. I've got to not

2153
01:50:46,960 --> 01:50:50,240
Speaker 1: run off for such a long time. But um, it

2154
01:50:50,280 --> 01:50:52,360
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I'm not gonna kill turks, So stick in

2155
01:50:52,560 --> 01:50:55,240
Speaker 1: for that exact thing. We're gonna kill some turks this year.

2156
01:50:55,240 --> 01:50:58,640
Speaker 1: I promise. We already got one in the back. The

2157
01:50:58,720 --> 01:51:03,519
Speaker 1: last thing is that you need to be emailing me

2158
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:05,680
Speaker 1: at th h th h C at the meat eatter

2159
01:51:05,760 --> 01:51:08,200
Speaker 1: dot com. That's th h C at the meat eater

2160
01:51:08,520 --> 01:51:12,000
Speaker 1: dot com. That's th h C at the meat Eater

2161
01:51:12,120 --> 01:51:14,760
Speaker 1: dot com. And th HC stands for Hunting Collective, the

2162
01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:19,439
Speaker 1: hunting Collective, that's what t HC stands for. So you

2163
01:51:19,479 --> 01:51:22,519
Speaker 1: need to email me all your comments from the show.

2164
01:51:22,560 --> 01:51:24,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be reading a lot of them in the

2165
01:51:24,200 --> 01:51:29,120
Speaker 1: opening segment. But also we're looking to play voicemails, and

2166
01:51:29,240 --> 01:51:31,479
Speaker 1: that's not really a voicemail. But what you're gonna do

2167
01:51:31,720 --> 01:51:33,559
Speaker 1: is you're gonna take your phone out. You're gonna hit

2168
01:51:33,560 --> 01:51:36,040
Speaker 1: the notes on it. You're gonna record yourself talking to

2169
01:51:36,160 --> 01:51:38,320
Speaker 1: me about what you liked and what you didn't like

2170
01:51:38,360 --> 01:51:40,479
Speaker 1: about the show, something that piss you off, something that

2171
01:51:40,479 --> 01:51:42,320
Speaker 1: made you happy, whatever the case might be. You're gonna

2172
01:51:42,320 --> 01:51:44,880
Speaker 1: record yourself talking and under two minutes you're gonna tell

2173
01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:46,760
Speaker 1: me what you loved and then you're gonna email to

2174
01:51:46,800 --> 01:51:49,519
Speaker 1: me at th C at the meat Eator dot com.

2175
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:51,559
Speaker 1: I will listen to it and then we will put

2176
01:51:51,560 --> 01:51:54,479
Speaker 1: it on the show if it's done correctly. And that's

2177
01:51:54,479 --> 01:51:55,880
Speaker 1: how that's gonna work. And we're gonna do as many

2178
01:51:55,920 --> 01:51:58,719
Speaker 1: of those as possible. If you guys flood that inbox

2179
01:51:58,760 --> 01:52:01,920
Speaker 1: with a lot of um chatter, we're gonna play him

2180
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:04,599
Speaker 1: on the show, hopefully to end some of our shows.

2181
01:52:04,640 --> 01:52:07,880
Speaker 1: We'll have some some listener feedback, and that's got to

2182
01:52:07,920 --> 01:52:09,680
Speaker 1: come from you. So get to work. You got a

2183
01:52:09,680 --> 01:52:12,920
Speaker 1: lot to do, um and that's it. So just like

2184
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:15,200
Speaker 1: every other week, we're gonna let you head out with

2185
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:18,800
Speaker 1: a little old number seven. Enjoy. We'll see you next time.

2186
01:52:19,720 --> 01:52:24,280
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jack Daniels, Oh number seven, Tennessee, who whiskey

2187
01:52:24,400 --> 01:52:27,720
Speaker 1: got me dragging? Heaven and uh, and just stop. It

2188
01:52:27,760 --> 01:52:31,160
Speaker 1: looks good to me. They're gonna have to department to

2189
01:52:31,320 --> 01:52:46,120
Speaker 1: the farade, to the far red heaven.