Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Alice Rivlin was
Speaker 1: involved in national economics and social policy making for nearly
Speaker 1: six decades. She was in the administrations of Presidents Lyndon
Speaker 1: Johnson and Bill Clinton. Founding director of the CBO. We're
Speaker 1: talking about the Congressional Budget Office, vice Chair of the FED,
Speaker 1: and so much more. And Tim, she started writing a
Speaker 1: book that was then finished by her son and daughter
Speaker 1: in law. Yeah, she sadly passed away back in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: but her son and daughter in law ended up finishing
Speaker 1: the book we're talking about. Sherry Rivlin and Alan Rivlin.
Speaker 1: Alan joins us right now. He's CEO of Zen Political Research,
Speaker 1: also the co author of Divided We Fall? Why can
Speaker 1: Census Matters? By Alice Rivlin. He joins us on the
Speaker 1: phone from Washington, d c Allan, good to have you
Speaker 1: with us. How are you? It's great to be with you. Tim. Well,
Speaker 1: before I get to the content of the book, can
Speaker 1: you just talk process here, because it's not every day
Speaker 1: that you speak to somebody. Hugh ended up essentially picking
Speaker 1: up the mantle and kind of finishing a book after
Speaker 1: his mother passes away. So take us into how you
Speaker 1: did it in the book writing process that you did
Speaker 1: with your mother and your wife. Um. Well, Alice was
Speaker 1: just very concerned about the state of the economy, but
Speaker 1: especially the state of politics when she passed away in
Speaker 1: twenty nine, and everyone who knows her knows how focused
Speaker 1: she was on sounding a warning that she put in
Speaker 1: the book. But she ran out of time, and so
Speaker 1: Sherry and I finished the book for her. It took
Speaker 1: us three years, and the world kept changing while we
Speaker 1: were writing it, but it kept changing in ways that
Speaker 1: are bad for America, bad for the world, but made
Speaker 1: the topics we were writing on much more relevant. And
Speaker 1: that's what's kind of fascinating, right, I Mean, this book
Speaker 1: is so timely considering the division that we've seen in
Speaker 1: the country and how it was right really written initially
Speaker 1: before the January six insurrection and siege on the US capital.
Speaker 1: Um So tell us about how that evolution of this
Speaker 1: three years. As you said, the world kept changing, how
Speaker 1: that impacted, um what you wanted to include in the
Speaker 1: book while also staying true to your mom exactly. So,
Speaker 1: so we were also writing it with an editor but
Speaker 1: also Brookings Institution scholars UH telling us we needed to
Speaker 1: keep the book relevant, but we didn't want to change
Speaker 1: Alice's book. So we put a forward and an afterward
Speaker 1: to sort of walk people into our process and how
Speaker 1: the world was changing and how it was making the
Speaker 1: book more relevant. But but from chapter one to chapter eleven,
Speaker 1: there's nothing in there that happened after twenty nineteen. We
Speaker 1: save all that for the forward and afterward. Hey, I'm wondering, Alan,
Speaker 1: if you think that Alice would be optimistic or pessimistic
Speaker 1: today both, she'd be worried, she'd be optimistic. She'd be
Speaker 1: UM focused on where we can go from here. They
Speaker 1: are two big things that are going on right now.
Speaker 1: One is the debt and deficit issue UM. The markets
Speaker 1: down again today, and everybody's focused on monetary policy. UM.
Speaker 1: But our fiscal policy and monetary policy are out of whack.
Speaker 1: And I think we've given up on fiscal policy, by
Speaker 1: which I mean the size of the deficit and the
Speaker 1: mounting debt UM, so we don't even talk about anymore.
Speaker 1: We we look to the Fed UH to to tighten
Speaker 1: things and get control of inflation. UM. As she want
Speaker 1: would want to be focusing on the deficit. She'd be
Speaker 1: pretty concerned because our politics is broken. She was on
Speaker 1: the deficit reduction commissions, really, both of them, the rivelin
Speaker 1: DOMENICI uh, that's what we call it in our family.
Speaker 1: Other people call it the demenicci Rivlin and then also
Speaker 1: the Simpson Bold and the experts knew how to fix
Speaker 1: our are our deficit and debt in a balanced way
Speaker 1: that would would spread of pain, so there wouldn't be
Speaker 1: too much pain. Um, but the politicians couldn't get there,
Speaker 1: and they're no closer now. And if you look at
Speaker 1: the way things may be headed in the next election,
Speaker 1: we may be headed for divided government and a rerun
Speaker 1: of through world. Well, you know, it's fascinating. I think
Speaker 1: about early on in my coverage of business news in
Speaker 1: the financial markets, we talked about the debt non stop,
Speaker 1: and you know, the concerns of it, you know, ballooning
Speaker 1: out of control, and we're way above the level ever
Speaker 1: talk about that. We don't really anymore, and so it's
Speaker 1: really interesting. Shouldn't say never, But it's not something that
Speaker 1: you here dominate the way it used to, and not
Speaker 1: in the political you know way that it was before Um,
Speaker 1: what would you know in terms of the division that
Speaker 1: we are seeing, certainly politically, in any effort to move
Speaker 1: forward on major and major initiatives. How does she weigh
Speaker 1: in and how would she see some kind of solution
Speaker 1: for today? Well, know, you asked about would she'd be optimistic?
Speaker 1: And it has to be said that bipartisan cooperation had
Speaker 1: a pretty good year over the past twelve months. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know that. But yeah, Piden and McConnell and and
Speaker 1: Pelosi and Schumer that they were able to get a
Speaker 1: whole lot of legislation passed, So it's not completely hopeless.
Speaker 1: In the book, we say by partisanship happens all the time,
Speaker 1: much more than people think, because the press is much
Speaker 1: more interested in covering the conflict than the cooperation. Much
Speaker 1: more than people think, but less than we need because
Speaker 1: there are an awful lot of problems, like the debt
Speaker 1: but also immigration. I mean, she has a long list
Speaker 1: of issues that are sort of the opportunity cost of
Speaker 1: not coming together to solve our problems. Um, so we
Speaker 1: got a lot done. We got the infrastructure bill passed,
Speaker 1: We got a lot done, but we need to get
Speaker 1: a whole lot more done to make the public feel like, uh,
Speaker 1: this democracy is we're saving because it gets things done
Speaker 1: for people. You know, we're a business show and a
Speaker 1: business network, of course, And I'm wondering if you think
Speaker 1: that the financial markets have the wrong incentives when it
Speaker 1: comes to the stuff, because you often hear the familiar
Speaker 1: refrain of oh, well, grid luck is good, right, the
Speaker 1: idea that if in a divided house, or uh, in
Speaker 1: a divided administration, then not too much will happen, so
Speaker 1: it's good for financial markets. Um, where do you come
Speaker 1: down on that? Well, first of all, you said, no,
Speaker 1: I spend all day long with Bloomberg, so I am
Speaker 1: very comfortable speaking the language that you have. But I
Speaker 1: do think that it's not just the markets have become
Speaker 1: anti government and and it's good when Congress goes away.
Speaker 1: The whole country has losing faith in all of the
Speaker 1: institutions that the president, Congress, the courts, are military, the
Speaker 1: religious institutions. Were just a world that has two little
Speaker 1: faith and a whole lot of people that are being
Speaker 1: very hard to do things for us and to solve problem.
Speaker 1: They don't do it enough, but they do do it
Speaker 1: much more than we give them credit for. So in
Speaker 1: that sense, I think we need to have more faith
Speaker 1: in ourselves as a nation and of voters. Uh, we
Speaker 1: can govern ourselves. We can elect the right people, we
Speaker 1: can hold accountable. All Right, we're gonna we're gonna leave
Speaker 1: it on that note. Allen, really great to check in
Speaker 1: with you. Really appreciate it. Thanks for spending all day
Speaker 1: with us too. Appreciate that favorite show, Better People Were
Speaker 1: Business Week. That's all we're gonna say, Alan Rivlin, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Chief Executive Officers and Political Research Divided
Speaker 1: We Fall, Why Consensus Matters? By Alice Rivlin. Um. She
Speaker 1: wrote it, as he said, The bulk of the book
Speaker 1: is what she wrote, but Sherry Rivlin and Allen Rivelin
Speaker 1: also helping put it together and get it out. There's
Speaker 1: just an incredible name, right Vice Chair the Federal Reserve
Speaker 1: of MacArthur Genius Grant recipient. Um, I mean, the list
Speaker 1: goes on