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Speaker 1: Circle for protecting our children. Climb stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. The search

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Speaker 1: is still on tonight for three year old Mariah Woods.

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Speaker 1: The girl was last seen by her mother her homing

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Speaker 1: it on his locality. The mother tells me she last

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Speaker 1: saw her daughter in the home at a round eleven

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Speaker 1: PM when she checked on her this is my world,

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Speaker 1: this is my angel. She said her boyfriend saw the

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Speaker 1: taller around midnight when he got up, and she says

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Speaker 1: he told her to go back to bed. Remains believed

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Speaker 1: to be the little girl were discovered along the highway.

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Speaker 1: Now there's an arrest thirty two year old Earl Camry,

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Speaker 1: Mariah's mother's boyfriend. No one is charged with causing her death.

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Speaker 1: Henry's charges only include concealing a death an obstruction of justice.

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Speaker 1: More charges likely to follow and maybe others charged. We

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Speaker 1: are not ruling anything up. After a long search, after

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Speaker 1: sifting through one fact after the next, after literally thousands

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Speaker 1: of people, a t V shoulder to shoulder K nine

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Speaker 1: helicopters die verse. Three year old Mariah is found. She's

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Speaker 1: found at the bottom of a creek twenty five miles

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Speaker 1: from her home. Does it jive with Mommy's story? I

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us in the last hours as we had to air,

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Speaker 1: we received bombshell information on the case. Joining me. Dr

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Speaker 1: Chloe Carmichael, psychologist and founder of Anxiety Tools dot com.

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Speaker 1: Alexis tres Chuck, Radar Online dot com investigative reporter death

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Speaker 1: investigator Joseph Scott Morgan and joining me right now, Child

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Speaker 1: advocate Ashley Willcott. Ashley, it's quite a bombshell. What have

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Speaker 1: you learned? Listen? So, Nancy, the CPS documents that the

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Speaker 1: father had he has shared and it states and here

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Speaker 1: really horrific, horrific disclosure by the ten year old sibling.

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Speaker 1: Um and quite frankly, if kids are listening to the show,

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Speaker 1: I don't think they should listen to the parties. Do

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Speaker 1: not mention any one other than Maria if she is included,

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Speaker 1: or the alleged part if he has included. If there

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Speaker 1: any other minor children, let's don't refer to them if

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Speaker 1: there are with me, Child advocate Ashley Wilcott with a

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Speaker 1: major development in this as it unfolds. Right, So, the

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Speaker 1: ten year old sibling, though, states in this document that

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Speaker 1: he witnessed the boyfriend and I'm quoting, put his penis

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Speaker 1: in the mouth of his sister Maria. He also states

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Speaker 1: that the mother knew the boyfriend did this. Now that's

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Speaker 1: one of the allegations, Nancy, It gets worse, right, that's

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Speaker 1: a horrible one. But listen. It also states the mother

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Speaker 1: of Mariah was aware that the boyfriend abuses substances, including

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Speaker 1: listen to this pot heroin and met the amphetamines. Lastly,

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Speaker 1: that on the same day Mariah went missing, that the

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Speaker 1: ten year old was hit in the face by the boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: causing the nose to bleed. That's a hard hit. Kids

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Speaker 1: get hit. They don't bleed right when they're in sports

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Speaker 1: and such, causing his nose to bleed, and the mother

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Speaker 1: knew it and failed to protect him. So, Nancy, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna I'm sure you're over there throwing up right like,

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Speaker 1: so now I'm gonna give it back to you when

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Speaker 1: you probably can't even speak. It's it's that detailed. I

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Speaker 1: hardly even know which way to turn. Ashually, I don't

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Speaker 1: even know which way to turn. Guys, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about the disappearance, and now we know the death of

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Speaker 1: this gorgeous three year old little girl, Maria Woods. I

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Speaker 1: have talked extensively with her father, Alex as he struggles

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Speaker 1: to understand what happened. He was in the middle of

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Speaker 1: a custody battle to get his children back. He did

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Speaker 1: not want them in that home. This is what we know.

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Speaker 1: They lived in a very tiny home and the mom

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Speaker 1: lived with the live in her two boys and a

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Speaker 1: little girl. The little girl the story is Alexis Torres

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Speaker 1: Chuck writer online dot Com, that she goes missing in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night. Just break it down really quickly,

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Speaker 1: and I want to go back to Ashley Willcott. What happened. Well,

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Speaker 1: the mom called nine one at six o'clock in the

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Speaker 1: morning and said her daughter had been missing. She said

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Speaker 1: she last she saw her, she put her to bed.

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Speaker 1: She said her boyfriend said he saw her at about

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Speaker 1: eleven o'clock at night and he said, don't worry, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna take care of her. I'm gonna put her back

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Speaker 1: to bed. The mom wakes up in the morning and

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Speaker 1: she is missing. Obviously none of that was true. Now

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Speaker 1: that we have found little Moriah's body and the boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: Earl Camry, has been arrested. You know, the timeline didn't

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Speaker 1: really hanging together for me, and there was a little

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Speaker 1: confusion at the beginning of it. But what really stuck

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Speaker 1: out in my mind to ask she Wilcot, is this

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Speaker 1: little girl were braces on her legs, you know, like

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Speaker 1: in the um Um posters for Cerebral Policy. The poster boy,

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Speaker 1: who has turned out to be a very dear friend

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Speaker 1: of mine over the years has grown up and still

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Speaker 1: advocates for cerebral policy. Remember him, it's that kind of posters, uh,

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Speaker 1: that kind of braces, Ashley. Her braces were in the

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Speaker 1: home and her PJ she wore the night before. And

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Speaker 1: when you and I heard that, along with just Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: we were all like, uh uh and oh, the child's

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Speaker 1: gone and what she was wearing is still there, and

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Speaker 1: no other clothes are missing. I mean, you know, as

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Speaker 1: I've told you about Lucy, she got on some kicks.

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Speaker 1: She's cleaned the closet out so much there's hardly anything

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Speaker 1: in there anymore. I know exactly what's in there, and

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Speaker 1: I will know if something is missing much less when

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Speaker 1: you're three, you know exactly what's in there. No other

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Speaker 1: clothes were missing. Switch means she wasn't wearing anything when

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Speaker 1: she left except those pink and white moneies. Ashley. I

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Speaker 1: want to go back to this bobshell discovery that you

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Speaker 1: have made regarding child protective services as I call them

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Speaker 1: de Facts Department Family Children's Services. Do these documents specifically

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Speaker 1: named Delivan Kimry, Yes, absolutely so, I said, boyfriend. For

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Speaker 1: purposes of making it easier for listeners to follow, but

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Speaker 1: it's specifically states. For instance, the ten year old states

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Speaker 1: that he witnessed Mr. Kimry, but his penus in the

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Speaker 1: mouth of the three year old all thrue. It references

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Speaker 1: Mr Kimry specificies. I'm looking at the documents myself right now.

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Speaker 1: Across the top it says state of North Carolina in

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Speaker 1: the matter of and it refers to the title of

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Speaker 1: the case. Uh. It says name and address and it is,

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Speaker 1: in fact there are two four zero five Dawson Cabin Road.

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Speaker 1: It gives notice, it gives names of lawyers. This lawyer

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Speaker 1: is named Mark Rayner, and that's a lawyer for the mom.

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Speaker 1: Then there's another lawyer, John Paul Saba. It keeps going down,

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Speaker 1: just telling you what we're seeing. It explains, It says

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Speaker 1: where the dad lives. It gives a juvenile summings and

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Speaker 1: notice of hearing. So does that mean to Ashley Wilcott

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Speaker 1: that there was a hearing on this because it's given

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Speaker 1: a case number and everything. So what happens, Yes, what

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Speaker 1: happens when children come into the custody of the state.

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Speaker 1: In every state it's a little different, but every state

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Speaker 1: there's going to be a hearing that occurs quickly because

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Speaker 1: the court has got to determine, for instance, in Georgia,

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Speaker 1: is their probable cause? Is there reason that these children

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Speaker 1: would be at risk with their family and actually need

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Speaker 1: to be in state custody, and those hearings happen quickly.

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Speaker 1: You know, this filing is December one, two thousand seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Is when they're filed, thirty four pm in the afternoon

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Speaker 1: in Onslow County. When did she go missing? What day

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Speaker 1: did she go missing? Alexis terres Chuck the either November

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Speaker 1: twenty six or twenty seventh, depending on when what comes in.

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Speaker 1: She's saying that, guys, is we don't know what time

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Speaker 1: of the night she goes missing. The mom says she

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Speaker 1: put her asleep at eleven. The boyfriend says he sees

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Speaker 1: her at twelve. When did she really go missing? It's

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Speaker 1: one of those two days. So this this is filed.

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Speaker 1: Let me understand this after she goes missing, explain that.

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Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott, guys, these these I'm just beside myself. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at what as she Wilcott has managed to unearthed,

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Speaker 1: and I'm now on page four and it's exactly as

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Speaker 1: she is saying, Uh, go ahead. What do you make

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Speaker 1: of this being filed app for she goes missing. I'm

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Speaker 1: not concerned about that only in this respect. What happens

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Speaker 1: is the process is so quick, necessarily because the court

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Speaker 1: needs to protect children. So frequently courts are able to

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Speaker 1: give verbal orders based on testimony presented to them or

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Speaker 1: have an emergency order to protect the children, and then

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Speaker 1: often the documents are allowed by law to be filed

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Speaker 1: once they can be prepared within a very short time frame.

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Speaker 1: So in this specific case, I'm not at all surprised

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Speaker 1: those are date stamped later. That doesn't concern me because

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Speaker 1: I think that children were likely with a relative or

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Speaker 1: somewhere safe right before everything got filed. Now, keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: the other piece of this nancy that we've learned is

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Speaker 1: that the children are placed with a relative. They are

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Speaker 1: with the maternal grandmother. So while they remain in the

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Speaker 1: custody of the state, as I understand, they're placed with

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Speaker 1: a relative, which, so long as that relative is appropriate,

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Speaker 1: it's much less traumatic for those children. I'm going back

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Speaker 1: to the paragraph in order. They're about twenty paragraphs of

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Speaker 1: fact allegations. Some of them are just the address and

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Speaker 1: the names, but the one specifically, paragraph fifteen, a witness

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Speaker 1: states he observed the living boyfriend, Earl Kimry, put his

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Speaker 1: genitals in the mouth of Mariah Woods, a three year

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Speaker 1: old child. The witness states that the mother knew Earl

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Speaker 1: Kimry was sexually abusing three year old Mariah, and the

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Speaker 1: mother failed to protect the juveniles from exposure failed to

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Speaker 1: protect Mariah. Correct that failed to protect Mariah from exposure

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Speaker 1: to sex abuse. The next paragraph, as Ashley Wildcott child

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Speaker 1: advocate has told you, says that the mother is aware

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Speaker 1: Camry abuses pot, heroin and meth amphetamine. You know, I

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Speaker 1: gotta ask you something as she will caught. The mother

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Speaker 1: let me stay again for the record, has not been

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Speaker 1: named a person of interest or a suspect in the

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Speaker 1: death of three year old Maria. But Ashley, she needs

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Speaker 1: a lawyer, a defense lawyer. And I'll tell you why.

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Speaker 1: As you already know. When you are in the commission

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Speaker 1: of a felony that being child a felony child abuse

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Speaker 1: or neglect neglect, and a death occurs during the commission

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Speaker 1: of a felony that is felony murder. And for a

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Speaker 1: felony murder, just like premeditated murder, you can get the

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Speaker 1: death penalty. Bam right, And I have no doubt that

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Speaker 1: charges are going to be forthcoming. And I've said from

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Speaker 1: the beginning law enforcement has done a bang up job

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Speaker 1: in this case because they have controlled the investigation so

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Speaker 1: that they can be thorough and deliberate and figure out

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Speaker 1: exactly what happened, what charges can result and will result.

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Speaker 1: So I have no doubt she will face criminal charges.

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Speaker 1: I think they're being throw in their investigation. You know, actually,

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Speaker 1: when the cops do a great job, nobody ever notices

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Speaker 1: when one road cop does something horrible, or the cops

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Speaker 1: in general mess something up. That's all you hear about

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Speaker 1: the headline. But you're right. This child was found twenty

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Speaker 1: five miles away from home in a creek bed. They

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Speaker 1: found her. I've gone over it and over it and

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Speaker 1: over it with her father, Alex, how it could have

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Speaker 1: happened the way it may have happened, Ashley. We also

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Speaker 1: have learned from Alex that someone in the neighborhood observed

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Speaker 1: someone leaving the home around three to four o'clock in

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Speaker 1: the morning carrying something. It's all fitting together. But these documents, Ashley,

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Speaker 1: these documents from Child Protective Services. I'm just sick because

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Speaker 1: the scenario is playing out in my mind. When you

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Speaker 1: don't know a horse, Ashley, look at the track record.

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Speaker 1: If there is evidence that he had molested to a a

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Speaker 1: child before, what do I know about what was happening

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Speaker 1: that night? Allegations the mom knew and did nothing? Was

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Speaker 1: that what happened that night? And then the child ended

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Speaker 1: up being killed? That she was going to tell somebody

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Speaker 1: who knows. Ashley helped me put this, help me put

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Speaker 1: the pieces of the puzzle to other. Look statistically, if

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Speaker 1: you talk about cases in which um a male has

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Speaker 1: been a perpetrator of abuse against a child and it's

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Speaker 1: been substantiated statistically, it is frequently of the time by

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Speaker 1: a boyfriend or a stepfather. So already if you just

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Speaker 1: look at statistics, which can be dangerous depending on how

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Speaker 1: you interpret them. But my point is that happened in

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Speaker 1: this scenario. I do not believe the mother did not

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Speaker 1: know and or should not have known. She should have known,

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Speaker 1: she didn't know, or she should have known this happened.

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Speaker 1: I have no doubt in my mind she is equally

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Speaker 1: as responsible and in my opinion, more responsible than the

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Speaker 1: person who actually did it. Because it is a mother's

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Speaker 1: job to protect her children and stop choosing making poor

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Speaker 1: choices for who's around your children. And in this case,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what she did. She did not protect an

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Speaker 1: innocent child at all. You know Ashley so often and

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go to Dr Chloe Carmichael on this.

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Speaker 1: But Ashley, in our practice uh me, as a prosecutor

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Speaker 1: used a child advocate and lawyer, I don't believe I

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Speaker 1: have ever once once and they literally ten thousand plus

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Speaker 1: cases I have handled seen a mother side against the

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Speaker 1: boyfriend or the husband and with the child. Never, not

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Speaker 1: once never. I don't understand it. I mean, I love David,

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Speaker 1: you know I do, uh, but I would totally kill

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Speaker 1: him or anybody else that touched the children. And Ashley,

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Speaker 1: you know I love our babysitters. You've met them all,

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Speaker 1: you know, every person I've ever had be with the children.

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Speaker 1: But I've always asked the children alone, has so and

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Speaker 1: so ever touched your front end? Has so and every

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Speaker 1: touched you're back? And they go, mom, who would want

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Speaker 1: touch my back? And I'm like, well, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know beside me, I don't know anybody that

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Speaker 1: would judge it. But have they just tell me, just

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Speaker 1: tell me. And you know, I know it sounds crazy

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Speaker 1: to people on the outside, but you have to be vigilant.

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Speaker 1: But there are people, you know, like women, when their

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Speaker 1: husbands are cheating, they ignore all the signs they don't

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Speaker 1: want to know. They ignore the perfume, they ignore the lipstick,

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Speaker 1: they ignore the calls outside in the car, they ignore

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Speaker 1: the to cell phones. Why you know, you just you do.

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Speaker 1: You make up excuses, you rationalize. Could that be possible here, Ashley? Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and I do think women rationalize that. But once children

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Speaker 1: are involved, that's what you know, that's a whole different

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Speaker 1: thing than oh, my husband's cheating. Once you have children

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Speaker 1: and you find out that there's any type of activity

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Speaker 1: that puts your children at risk. As a mother, that

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Speaker 1: should come first. But there's an emotional and I'm not

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Speaker 1: the expert in this, Thank goodness, you have one on

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Speaker 1: the phone who is, Because there's just this inability to

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Speaker 1: choose these children over a man, and they continue to

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Speaker 1: make bad choices and choose a bad man over protecting

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Speaker 1: their own children. I don't get it. I don't understand it.

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Speaker 1: I'm here to say it happens a lot. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean men no offense. Man. I love men, but like

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Speaker 1: I tell Lucy, she once had a little crush and um,

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Speaker 1: I said, Lucy, don't worry if he doesn't like you back.

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Speaker 1: Men are like busses. Another one will come along in

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Speaker 1: about fifteen minutes. Don't worry and it will be even better.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, I don't understand why a mom would choose

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Speaker 1: a man over or a husband choosing a woman over

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Speaker 1: their children. It's you know that the same for both genders.

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Speaker 1: What we know right now bomb shall Child Protective Service documents.

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Speaker 1: I guess we suspected, but now we know that formal

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Speaker 1: allegations had been made in secret. We managed to obtain

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Speaker 1: these documents. I want to thank our partner who is

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Speaker 1: making our investigation into the disappearance and death of baby

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Speaker 1: Mariah possible. And it is one eight hundred dentists. You

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Speaker 1: know I want to give my children a beautiful smile. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I really do. They're wearing braces right now, and pay

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Speaker 1: for it on a monthly basis. Go to one eight

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Speaker 1: thank you one eight hundred dentists for being our partner. Today.

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Speaker 1: In the last hours, we received a bombshell formal documents

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Speaker 1: from Child Protective Services in North Carolina that alleged is

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Speaker 1: not a conviction, It is not a finding by a judge.

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Speaker 1: Formal documents alleging the live in boyfriend have been sexually

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Speaker 1: molesting baby Maria, who has now been found dead at

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Speaker 1: the bottom of a creek. We knew it was all

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Speaker 1: wrong when Mariah was missing and her little leg braces

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Speaker 1: were still in the home, as were her pajamas she

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Speaker 1: was wearing the night before, as she will caught. For

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Speaker 1: those people that are just joy ending us here at

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Speaker 1: series six in one thirty two, that may have just

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Speaker 1: found us on the dial, please tell me what you

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Speaker 1: have found so, Nancy, what we have found is that

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Speaker 1: there is a witness in the home who has disclosed

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Speaker 1: seeing Mr Camery, who is the boyfriend, putting his panis

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Speaker 1: in Mariah's mouth, and that the mother failed, um um

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Speaker 1: to address this and knew what was happening to. Dr

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Speaker 1: Chloe Carmichael, psychologists, founder of Anxiety tools dot Com, joining

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Speaker 1: Sun of New York. Dr Chloe reminds me so much

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Speaker 1: of the case one of the first ones I had,

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Speaker 1: where a very prominent Atlanta businessman had been abusing He

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Speaker 1: had thirty plus quote natural children. I'd so first. I

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Speaker 1: remember it very well from all different a lot of

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Speaker 1: different women over many many years. And he was then

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Speaker 1: living with his new girlfriend. She had a teen girl,

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Speaker 1: like a five year old and a three year old,

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Speaker 1: and of course he was molesting them. And I went

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Speaker 1: digging and found all of these similar transactions where he

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Speaker 1: had been doing this for years and years, and he

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Speaker 1: was now in his sixties. And I remember looking at

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Speaker 1: that living girlfriend, her team girl had already moved out

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Speaker 1: of the home and was living alone in a housing

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Speaker 1: project rather than live in their fancy home. I wonder why, right,

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Speaker 1: Dr Chloe and the victims in the indictment that I

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Speaker 1: was prosecuting were looked like two little bity angels. One

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Speaker 1: was three and one was five, and he was full

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Speaker 1: on molesting this three and five year old. And the

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Speaker 1: mom knew Dr Chloe. The mom knew she would sit

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Speaker 1: on the defense side of the courtroom every day of trial.

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Speaker 1: That's the trial I got held in content. By the way,

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00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 1: that was a big old mass. Every public defender in

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Speaker 1: the courthouse ranto the courtroom with seeing me getting handcuffed. Um.

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Speaker 1: But back to the story, she even took the children

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Speaker 1: on the on the weekend, and when I wasn't with

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Speaker 1: them on the weekend, to the defense office to recant

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Speaker 1: their stories. Dr Chloe, I don't understand it. Why would

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Speaker 1: a mother, in the face of all this evidence side

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Speaker 1: with the boyfriend? Fancy, I hear you loud and clear. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's just I would I would have been

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Speaker 1: getting arrested right there with you in a situation like that. UM,

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Speaker 1: with with the mother in this type of situation. UM,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of, you know, potential reasons, although I

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Speaker 1: don't believe any of it really ever fully explains the

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Speaker 1: way that a mother could abandon and really act as

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Speaker 1: an accessory, you know, to this terrible abuse of her

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Speaker 1: own children. UM. You know, in many cases like this,

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Speaker 1: the mother was abused herself. UM. It's also possible sometimes

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Speaker 1: that you know, perhaps even do it to our own

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Speaker 1: history of abuse, that the mom can take on almost

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00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,880
Speaker 1: more of a childlike role, um, you know, to the abuser. UM.

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Speaker 1: There's also times when I believe it or not, the

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Speaker 1: mom gets a little bit of of a sick thrill. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, and again we're talking about somebody who could herself,

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Speaker 1: you know, be a very sick person. Um. But there

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Speaker 1: there is a certain amount of power that a woman

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Speaker 1: gains when she, uh provides a gateway to a man

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Speaker 1: like this to her children. As if we can all imagine,

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Speaker 1: it's not very many women that would stand by and

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Speaker 1: allow this to happen. So in a very strange and

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Speaker 1: sick way, the mother actually takes on a lot of power.

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Speaker 1: It's also possible, um, you know, from what I understand,

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Speaker 1: that there was a custody battle. Uh, It's also possible

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Speaker 1: that you know, she was afraid that by revealing that

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Speaker 1: this had happened, that she might stand, you know, to

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Speaker 1: lose her children. From what I understand, there were also

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of you know, drugs, heroine and

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Speaker 1: things like that in the home. It's also possible that

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00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: she was so focused on her own issues. I can

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Speaker 1: see the drugs clouding her mind if in fact she

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00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 1: was using them. We don't know that. But Dr Chloe,

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00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: to choose keeping custody over protecting your child, and if

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Speaker 1: you want to keep custody and you don't want to

402
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: lose custody to the father, then kick the boyfriend out.

403
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: The two choices you're not live with a boyfriend molesting

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00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: your child or lose your children. The answer is turn

405
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 1: your boyfriend into police and kick his sorry rearian out

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00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: of the house and get a TCO on him to

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00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: never come back. Yeah. I agree. In fact, it makes

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00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: it in many ways even more inexcusable because she obviously

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00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: the father was, you know, standing right there. I don't know,

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00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: you know why he didn't have any custody, but there

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00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,959
Speaker 1: was apparently other, you know, viable options if for some

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00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 1: reason she felt unable or unwilling to cut off her

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00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: connection to this man. Joining me is Alexis Dress Chuck

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Speaker 1: writer online dot com. Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator and

415
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Speaker 1: professor forensics at Jacksonville State University. Dr Chlobe Carmichael, New

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Speaker 1: York psychologist, founder of Anxiety Tools dot com. Troit Slayton,

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Speaker 1: UH veteran defense attorney joining me out of l A

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Speaker 1: and Ashley Willcot child advocate. Okay out to Troy Slaton

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00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: defense attorney joining me. What we have right here are

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00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: charging documents with a case file. UH. They have not

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00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: been proven. These allegations have not been proven. But the

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00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: witness states who is in a position to know what's

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00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: going on in the home that this occurs. Troy, there's

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Speaker 1: no allegation of murder at this point, Nancy. We have

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00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: unlawful disposition of a body, we have larceny, we have

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00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: moving a body, but we do not have a murder case.

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00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: So this poor young girl is dead. We don't know

428
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: who did it. Uh, Troy Alan, could you check his

429
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: connection because he must not have heard me correctly. We're

430
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,719
Speaker 1: talking about Child Protective Services documents that we have obtained

431
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: that alleged through an eyewitness that the living boyfriend, Earl Kimry,

432
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: was methodically abusing, sexually abusing this three year old little girl,

433
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: and that the mother knew. That's what the charging documents say.

434
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: I'm repeating what I see informal documents. I'm not talking

435
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: about a murder charge. But I do assume you're familiar

436
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: with the theory of felony murder, are you not? Troy Slayton.

437
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely. If you commit uh crime of felony and

438
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: somebody dies, even if it's not the direct approximate cause

439
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: of what you did, you're guilty of murder. Well, would

440
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: you agree with me Troy Slayton, that felony child neglect

441
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: would constitute an underlying felony for a charge of felony murder,

442
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: possibly unless it's too attenuated. Just because you commit a

443
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: felony doesn't mean that that felony was part and parcel

444
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: of the death. Troy, you just said in your last sentence.

445
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: You just said the felony does not have to be

446
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: particularly related to the death. I e. You and I

447
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: go into rob a bank. I get crazy and I

448
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: gunned down Alan Duke. You didn't even know I had

449
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: a gun. Guess what you're in for? Felony murder. You

450
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: just wanted it's some easy money. You didn't want any bullets. Bam,

451
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: it's done, it's over. In fact, doesn't mean what I

452
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: commit the If I hold up a liquor store the

453
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: day before, and then the next day you go and

454
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: rob a bank and we happened to live with each other,

455
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that I'm guilty of the murder that

456
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: happened at the bank. Let's hypothesize in this scenario, clearly

457
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: what we're talking about is child neglect. If these documents

458
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: are true that the mother knew the child was being

459
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: neglected and if the mother knew the boyfriend, her boyfriend,

460
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: her lover was molesting her three year old daughter, and

461
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: she allowed that situation, that neglect to go on, and

462
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: during that neglect, the child ends up dead. Are you

463
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: telling me with a straight face, Troy Slaton, that would

464
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: not be felony murder in that exact situation, that could

465
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: potentially make make a case for felony murder. Man, you're slipper.

466
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: We don't feel feel like a greased pig. Have you

467
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: ever tried to catch a pig? Troy Slaton? Because my

468
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: dad and my uncle uncle rabbit. But my dad would

469
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: get home at night if I'm working on the railroad, Hey,

470
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: and my uncle my uncle convinced him to start a

471
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: pig farm, and when they would get home, my dad

472
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: would have to get out of the car and go

473
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: chase pigs that got loose. And they're slippery, they're not

474
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: easy to catch. They're filthy, they smell, and they're typically

475
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: covered with wet mud. Okay, Troy, not to suggest that

476
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: you are a pig or bovine in any way, but

477
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: you're extremely slippery. I had to nail you down. Nail

478
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: you down on that. I'm talking about a felony murder.

479
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: And again, nobody, not the mother, not the boyfriend, had

480
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: been charged with murder. The mom is not a person

481
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: of interest, She is not a suspect at all. Is

482
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: it's because we don't know the cause or manner of

483
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: death at this point. Well, I can tell you this much.

484
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: She didn't sneak out to Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator,

485
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: the three year old girl that walked with braces did

486
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: not walk out completely naked except for her pink and

487
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: white undy's, without her leg braces, gets on her own

488
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: own and throw herself at the bottom of a creek. No,

489
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, that is uh not possible. And I

490
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: think that right now we're waiting to find out exactly

491
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: what her cause of death is, Uh, Nancy, And this

492
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: is this is a big issue here. Uh she was found,

493
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: as you stated, at the bottom of the creek. Why

494
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: would somebody drive that far away to dispose of a

495
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: body from this little girl's home over twenty plus miles.

496
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: One of the things that the m E is going

497
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: to be looking at here along with the FBI, is

498
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: a dearth of evidence both at the primary scene, which

499
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,479
Speaker 1: would be the home, and then where the body was found.

500
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: Um they had called a dive team, Nancy, which implies

501
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: that this child was at the bottom of a body

502
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: of water. Wasn't just simply she wasn't just simply floating

503
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: in in the water. Um, I'm wondering, was she submerged?

504
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: Was she uh weighted down and placed into this body

505
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: of water? And how does somebody know about this isolated

506
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: area where the body was found. One of the things

507
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: that that I'm really scratching my head over is did

508
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: the individual that was involved in this, whoever brought about

509
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: her death? Um, did they take this poor little angel

510
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: out so far away to do something so horrible to

511
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: this child that they want to complete in total privacy,

512
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: and then to do away with evidence. They would take

513
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: this individual child and submer urch her in a body

514
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: of evidence, to try to get away from fiber, to

515
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: try to get away from DNA evidence, all these kinds

516
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: of things. Uh, the FBI is keeping a tight little this.

517
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: I don't expect us to hear anything from the FBI. However,

518
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: I believe that shortly we will get a cause of

519
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,719
Speaker 1: death from the medical examiner, and Uh that's gonna give

520
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: us far more information. Hopefully they'll be able to tell

521
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: us what type of trauma was found on the body.

522
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: And also, and this is this is one of these

523
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: things that kind of kind of chills you to your bones.

524
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: Um was she drowned in that water? In other words,

525
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: what she held down hold on just got mark. If

526
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,959
Speaker 1: you look at the search warrant that was used as

527
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: the basis for arresting the boyfriend for obstruction, it says

528
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: he took the dead body out of the home. I

529
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: believe it's what it said. So whatever happened to her

530
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: happened in the home. Look at the search warrant, Joe

531
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: Scott and read it and see if you understand the

532
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: same way I do, because you know, we can both

533
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: look at a fact scenario and see completely completely different thing.

534
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: Look at it real quick while I go to Alexis.

535
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: Alexis Tourez Chuck, investigative reporter for Writer online dot com.

536
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: What do we know about the temperature the night Maria

537
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: went missing? So this is winter in the South. It

538
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: was about forty degrees that night, which is cold. I

539
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: live in California, so those are different for me. But

540
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: I grew up in North Carolina, and that is cold

541
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: at night in the fourties. And in fact, there were

542
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: pictures the next day of the mom with Mariah's sibling

543
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: and he was wearing a little winter coat. So this

544
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: is the this is winter. This is not a warm,

545
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: balmy summer night at all. So this little girl had

546
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: only her underwear on, only her little pink and white

547
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: striped underwear. It was too cold for anybody to be without.

548
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: Alexis that water and that creek was so cold on

549
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: that little baby girl. I want you to hear what

550
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: has just happened. This guy has not been charged with

551
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: murder to live in boyfriend, but he was very briefly

552
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: in court and we have the sound listen. We are

553
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: still investigating, leads, were still doing interviews. There are many

554
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: other things that need to be um considered, the possibility

555
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: of future charge as well. You know, we're not going

556
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: to talk about those things at this point. We have

557
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: been in constant contact with our District attorney's office and

558
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: uh he has provided us guidance about where to go,

559
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: how to go further on. That was Earl Kimry in

560
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: court and he's heading back to court. We believe that

561
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: there will be additional charges, possibly additional defendants. That's what

562
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: we think right now. But as of right now, nobody's

563
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: charged with murder, nobody's charged with homicide. The mother remains

564
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: not a person of interest and not a suspect. I

565
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: want to thank our partner who is joining us today

566
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: making our investigation into the death of a three year

567
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: old little girl possible. You know, have you noticed your

568
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: body changes all through your life? I mean mine does,

569
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: and especially since the twins came, I've got so much

570
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: less energy and I feel fatigued. Well, I just learned

571
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: that this is due in part to a decrease in circulation.

572
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Speaker 1: If you start giving your body what it needs now,

573
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574
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580
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582
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583
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584
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587
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588
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591
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592
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593
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Speaker 1: being our partner today. Now back to our investigation to

594
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: the disappearance of baby Mariah. This is also County Sheriff

595
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: Hans Miller. Take a listen as he advises many quote

596
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: things are being considered future charges and he is being

597
00:35:53,239 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: guided by the district attorney. Listen. Oh Jardon used this

598
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: specifically and seeing the unnatural death arseny out writing an

599
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 1: interim second for the garden, reading and possession of Fellow.

600
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: Good for you under seeing all those charges all, and

601
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: also when I spoke in depth on several occasions to

602
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: Mariah's dad regarding when investigators have actually told him about

603
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 1: how Mariah was killed. This is what he tells me.

604
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: Have they told you how they think she was killed? Alex, No,

605
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: not yet. They as soon as they found her body,

606
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: they rush Greenville, North Carolina. Well, they was gonna perform

607
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: the alk topsy and I'll find out further information. How when? Why? Why? Howard?

608
00:36:54,719 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: When all that information? Alex? Do they believe that Riah

609
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: was molested? I have not. I do not know that me.

610
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: They can I have, yes, I think so. I hope pray,

611
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 1: not just for the peace of mind, but I think so. Yes.

612
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: I have not heard that from nobody, because you know,

613
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: they're now just doing the alcosics. So I don't know, Alex.

614
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: Was she clothed when she was found? I had no idea.

615
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: They did not tell me. All they told me was

616
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: that they found my battle girl. They frowned Mariah about

617
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: twenty minutes away from where we're at, twenty minutes away

618
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: from our home. I guess because TROYE. Layton, veteran defense attorney,

619
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 1: joining me out of l a take off your defense

620
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: hat just for a moment, I guess We're all trying

621
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 1: to figure out why. And the father was saying that

622
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 1: he had he has suspicions that Mariah was molested. He

623
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: doesn't know because we're we're trying to figure out why

624
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: would someone do this kill a three year old little girl, Troy.

625
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 1: And of course the state doesn't have to prove a motive.

626
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: But you know, really not just juries, but people in

627
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: general look for why, they look for the answer Troy.

628
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: Of course, Nancy, jurors want to know why somebody did

629
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: something that is so heinous that they couldn't imagine it

630
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: happening in their own lives. But back to the father here,

631
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: he had visitation rights, he had the lawful ability to

632
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: see his daughter, and he hadn't seen her for a year.

633
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,439
Speaker 1: So he says that the reason why he didn't try

634
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: and get full custody was because he couldn't afford a lawyer. Well,

635
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: that just doesn't hold water for me, Nancy, because there

636
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: are family court facilitators, there are low uh and free

637
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: legal services that are available to people, and is absolutely free.

638
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: If he thinks that somebody was harming his daughter, he

639
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: could have called the authorities immediately and started investigation or

640
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: child protective services if you didn't think there was an

641
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: immediate threat. So I just am not buying the story

642
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: about the father who seems to be just piling on now,

643
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: Troy Latton has just pointed a finger at the biological

644
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: father who was nowhere near the home where the child

645
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: was murdered, was killed and then thrown at the bottom

646
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 1: of a creek. In fact, he was the one out

647
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: looking for her. You know, Alexis Toures, writer online dot

648
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, Alexis, that you just saw and Stark

649
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: start reality. How defense attorneys no offense? Latton play Look here,

650
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: not there, don't look at the facts, look over here,

651
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: don't look at the suspect, look at this, look at this.

652
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: I don't give a flying fig Why what was going

653
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: on in the custody battle? I care about who killed

654
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: this baby? And you can bring up what the father,

655
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: what he didn't do, you know, Alexis, I don't know

656
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 1: if I've told you the story. Do you know when

657
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: I started law skiol, Alexis, I was planning to be

658
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: a Shakespearean literature professor. I didn't know a criminal case

659
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 1: from the hole in the ground. I had to look

660
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: up the words plaintiff and defendant. And I remember I

661
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: was with my sister, she was a professor at Wharton

662
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 1: at the time, and um my fiance had just been murdered,

663
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 1: and I first time I'd ever been on a plane.

664
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 1: I flew to Philadelphia and stayed with her for a while,

665
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 1: and I looked up the words plaintiff and defendant. I

666
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,479
Speaker 1: didn't even know what they were. Now, Alexis, I had

667
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: a degree in English with a concentration on Shakespeare, and

668
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about the legal system. You want

669
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: to tell me, Alect this that everybody out there knows

670
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: what to do when you're in the middle of a

671
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: bitter custody fight and you're not getting along with your

672
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: spouse and they're threatening you, when you're having fights and

673
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: they don't know what to do. And when he he

674
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: says he has no money, I believe that the life

675
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: is tough and people are on He could be on

676
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: really tough times. Lawyers cost a lot of money. And

677
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: to know that there are free services out there, how

678
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: is he going to know that where people free lawyers

679
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: are not. I really do not think this is the

680
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: time to pile on the dad talk about piling on.

681
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: I know what it feels like to lose the thing

682
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: you love the most, and to now say you should have,

683
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: could have, would have that you screwed up. It's your fault.

684
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 1: It's not his fault. He did not do this thing.

685
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: It's not his fault. And I really really think that's wrong.

686
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: Delay the blame anywhere other than at the feet of

687
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: the killer just got Morgan. Please explain what we know

688
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: about the way this child, this baby was found dead.

689
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,399
Speaker 1: She can imagine, Nancy. She's over twenty miles away from

690
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: whatever security she might have perceived, her mother, out in

691
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: the woods and a body of water cold. We have

692
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 1: no idea what the cause of death is, but she died,

693
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: I can guarantee you in terror and horror, and the

694
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,959
Speaker 1: warrant itself states that she died of something other than

695
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: natural causes. I can tell you this three year old.

696
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: Little girls don't just spontaneously die. And if what is

697
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: true that has previously been stated about the sexual abuse

698
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: allegedly a man, this tiny little angel is living in

699
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 1: fear of her life, not knowing these people that are

700
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: in custody of her, that have responsibility over her little life.

701
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: She lives in fear that some savage is going to

702
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 1: come creeping into her bedroom and it's going to assault

703
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: her in the middle of the night. It's absolutely, absolutely horrible.

704
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: And we're gonna have a much more detailed picture painted

705
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: for this very very soon when the Medical examin releases

706
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: its findings. Dr Chloe Carmichael joining me from New York,

707
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: founder of Anxiety tools dot Com. You know, Dr Chloe,

708
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: I have represented as a prosecutor so many grown women

709
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: rape victims and sex assault victims, and I see what

710
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: they have gone through and and their life is never

711
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 1: the same. Yes, yes, yes they go on. They sold

712
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: her on, But I always compare it to have being

713
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: a broken arm that you don't get set. You learn

714
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: to flip a pancake. Like my mom. She's riddle with

715
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: Arthur writ As, she's got all sorts of elments. But

716
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: she was a classic trained classical pianist and play the

717
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: cello in the symphony. And I watch her play the piano.

718
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: She can't move her shoulder, but she still can play

719
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: a little bit. These women go on, but it's never

720
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: the same. Can you imagine what it's like for a

721
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 1: three year old child to be molested? Just let your

722
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: mind go there. See, that's the only way I could

723
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: get through a lot of my cases is don't let

724
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 1: my mind go to that moment. But let your mind

725
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: go to the moment where a three year old little

726
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: girl is in bed, the mom is in the next room,

727
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: and the live in comes in and molest you. Now,

728
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: I know what it does to ladies, grand ladies. I've

729
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: dealt with so many childless station victims. I don't even

730
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: know how many I've represented. But they can't verbalize the

731
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: way adults can. Can you imagine that? Dr Chloe Nancy? No,

732
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it is, it's unimaginable. It's it's really beyond

733
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: comprehension because it is it's just outside the bounds of

734
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:28,399
Speaker 1: what we consider normal behavior for for a reason. So

735
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: what the three year old, what she went through, of course,

736
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 1: in and of itself is a is a terrible trauma.

737
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: But then as well, the fact that it appears that

738
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: it had been going on, Um, I'm guessing it wasn't

739
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: the first time, you know that there was the police

740
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: report that a witnessed in the home had had seen

741
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 1: the live and put his penis in her mouth. If

742
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: he was doing that in eyesight of other people, that

743
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 1: suggests that this probably had been going on, you know,

744
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: for for some time. And so for the little girl

745
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: to not only experience the trauma, but to have a

746
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 1: scene and witnessed by other people, possibly even including her mother,

747
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: who did nothing to stop it becomes a trauma on

748
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: top of a trauma, and I will say it also

749
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: becomes what we call a trauma for the secondary victims

750
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: who are also UM. You know, other children that may

751
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 1: have been in the home and been aware of this

752
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: because they're put it in a terrible position because their mom,

753
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: if she in some way knew about it, is implicitly

754
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: sending the message, UM, you know that you better not.

755
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: I agree with Dr Chloe. I know that my mother,

756
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: when I was a child exactly this age. Joe Scott,

757
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: you've heard me tell the story before three, risked her

758
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 1: own life to save my life. I mean, you look

759
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: to your mother two protect you from everything UM. Our

760
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: program today would not be possible without our partners. I

761
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: really can't thank you enough for joining us, and I

762
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: can't thank our partners enough for making our program possible.

763
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: And I want to thank this partner that means a

764
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: lot to me. Circle with Disney and I want to

765
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 1: talk to your parent to parent. I want to protect

766
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 1: my children and I do protect them in every way

767
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: I can think of and I want to protect them

768
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: from the internet. The Internet is so awesome. We use

769
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: it every day with their school projects. And last night

770
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 1: we were in bed watching James Brown saying I feel

771
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: good before we went to sleep. They know the world

772
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: of internet, but they are parts of the Internet. I

773
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: don't want them there. I don't want them. It's dangerous

774
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,919
Speaker 1: and it's hard to monitor what they're doing online. There's

775
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: a lot of complicated, technical, expensive solutions that can require

776
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 1: some tech pro to come to your home and stall

777
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: hardware and software that affects everybody in the family. But

778
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: here's the answer. It's Circle with Disney. It's a little

779
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: divide designed for families to manage content and time online

780
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 1: for all the devices in your home. You the parent

781
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: filter content, You set time limits. You can even set

782
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: a bedtime, and it's so easy to set up. John

783
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: David He's ten set it up for me. Everyone in

784
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: the family has their own setting. This way, children don't

785
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: end up and the scary part of the internet. But

786
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: mom and dad still can use the Internet to get

787
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 1: their work done. Use offer code Nancy in a n

788
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,479
Speaker 1: c y at circle with Nancy dot Com get ten

789
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: dollars off your circle plus free shipping with this offer

790
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: ten dollars off free shipping circle with Nancy dot Com

791
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 1: offer code Nancy Circle with Nancy dot Com offer code

792
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: Nancy ten dollars off your circle and free shipping circle.

793
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: I am grateful for what you have done for me

794
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: to ease my mind, help me protect my two children.

795
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna thank you also for being our partner

796
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: here today as we try our best to unravel the

797
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: story and protect other children. Now we're talking about the

798
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: mom and the live in again. Mom is not a suspect.

799
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 1: Mom has not been named a person of interest. No

800
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 1: one has been charged with murder yet. As a matter

801
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:27,919
Speaker 1: of fact, listen to Mom. You judge her credibility. You're

802
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: the jury. The jury is the sole judge of credibility. Listen.

803
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 1: Please bring her back and I love her. I'll do

804
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: anything that I can't whatever you want. Sprag her home,

805
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: Please save the sound. She's my baby, She's by everything.

806
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: What does she means to you and your family in

807
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: this community. She's like an angel. I had my twoths

808
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: tied and burnt on each side. I found out I

809
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: was pregnant with her, so we call her our little angel.

810
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: She's got the personality of make you laugh. She's goofy, outgoing, talkative.

811
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: She knows how to make your day brighter. A lot

812
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 1: to this community and people that are here looking for her,

813
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: love her to death. What would it means to you

814
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: to see her face again? Everything in the world, just

815
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: to be able to touch her and hold her, not

816
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: let her go again. I give anything, Pat Donsla County

817
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: sheriff Department, please and let us know. And if whoever

818
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: has her, please, I'm begging you. Bring your home. Nancy

819
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Stories, signing off, goodbye friend,