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Speaker 1: Hi, this is Annie and this is Pritchett, and you're

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Speaker 1: listening to stuff Mom never told you. Today we're talking

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Speaker 1: about sexism at the gym, and I wanted to start

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Speaker 1: out with an anecdote that um has less to do

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Speaker 1: with sexism and more to do with problems at the gym.

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Speaker 1: But a couple of years ago, I went back home

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Speaker 1: to visit my parents. My parents live in a really

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Speaker 1: small town, and UM, I found these really old weights,

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Speaker 1: like dumbbells, and they were arrested and metallic, and I

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Speaker 1: decided I wanted to lift them because I like lifting weights,

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Speaker 1: and um, I was also trying to avoid a big

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Speaker 1: party my parents were having downstairs, which is really funny

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Speaker 1: because spoiler alert, I ruined the party. And this is

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Speaker 1: not the first time the duff this. Um. So I

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Speaker 1: was lifting the weights like, I guess that's a bench press,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't have a bench I was just on

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Speaker 1: the floor and the rust had eaten away at the

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Speaker 1: spiral keeping the weight on. It fell right on my

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Speaker 1: face and my tooth. It was like powder. It dissolved

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Speaker 1: like powder. Yeah, and I so I'm panicking. I look

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Speaker 1: in the mirror and UM, as I mentioned before, I've

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Speaker 1: done some acting and I'm like, my career is over.

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Speaker 1: I have only one specific type of role I can

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Speaker 1: get from your so because I'm I am less than

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Speaker 1: smart when it comes to my health. I finished my

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Speaker 1: workout circuit and then I went downstairs. I was trying

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Speaker 1: to avoid everybody and I managed to um. But when

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Speaker 1: I got outside, they're all of these cars parked behind

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Speaker 1: my car because I was trying to get to a

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Speaker 1: dentist right and UM, I had to go inside interrupt

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Speaker 1: my parents nice party and with my broken two and

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Speaker 1: ask everyone to move their cars. And so that happened.

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Speaker 1: And then because I was not where I live and

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Speaker 1: it was a Saturday, no dentist was open, No nowhere

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Speaker 1: was going to help me out except for one I

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Speaker 1: found off of a strip. And when I came in,

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Speaker 1: they didn't speak English. They only spoke Russian. And I've

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Speaker 1: never gotten like any kind of tooth work done before

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Speaker 1: other than wisdom teeth getting out. So they showed me

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Speaker 1: like this big needle and they're they're like not. I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: this is it for me, but it all turned out

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Speaker 1: and they replaced the tube. And now you can only

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Speaker 1: tell because when I drink coffee are are wine because

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Speaker 1: it stains differently. You have a you have a fake

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Speaker 1: tooth in your head. All this time I've been friends

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Speaker 1: with you, I didn't know that you had a fake

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Speaker 1: tooth in your head. It's the front one too, It's

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Speaker 1: the front one. Wait right or left on the left.

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Speaker 1: I literally couldn't tell. Good job Russian dentist, job Russian dentist.

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Speaker 1: They definitely implied. I couldn't really understand what they were

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Speaker 1: saying because it was like a I think they were

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Speaker 1: a husband and wife pair of dentists. But they definitely

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Speaker 1: implied to me that I was lying to them about

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Speaker 1: bleaching my teeth. But anyway, that is my fun non

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Speaker 1: jim but weightlifting story because we are gonna be talking

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Speaker 1: a lot about weightlifting. Have you ever experienced sexism at

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Speaker 1: the gym? Bridge I not, I would say, not that

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Speaker 1: I can remember off hand, but probably I also, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a big gym person. I do enjoy being physical,

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Speaker 1: but it's usually some sort of activity. So the gym

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Speaker 1: that I go to usually is it's like one of

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Speaker 1: those specialty gyms that we're going to talk about. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's off road here in d C. It's amazing. And

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Speaker 1: their slogan is Bike Box Build And so it's just

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Speaker 1: a really small, boutique specialty gym where you only kind

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Speaker 1: of do one of three things, you know, cycling boxing

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Speaker 1: which is what I do UM, and also cycling sometimes

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Speaker 1: and then like circuit training UM. And I think I

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Speaker 1: found that because it's a smaller gym and everyone knows

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Speaker 1: each other and everyone goes out for coffee or drink

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Speaker 1: after the workout, which I'm sure kind of defeat the purpose.

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Speaker 1: But it's such a small, tight knit community of mostly

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Speaker 1: women and gender not conforming folks that it it Really

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Speaker 1: it's just the only environment I want to be in.

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Speaker 1: Why work out? That sounds lovely? Yeah, it's I this

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Speaker 1: sounds like an ad for them, and it's not because

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Speaker 1: they're you know, they're not paying me. But I would

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Speaker 1: happily make an ad for them because it's such a

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Speaker 1: great gym and it's the only consistent Jim based physical

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Speaker 1: activity I've been able to do that, And I think

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Speaker 1: part of it is because of that sort of camaraderie.

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Speaker 1: It's really low key. Everyone is really nice. Everybody is

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Speaker 1: there to have fun, you know, it's really it's really

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Speaker 1: kind of like people go there because it's a pleasant

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Speaker 1: and fun way to spend an hour and a half.

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Speaker 1: It's not. It's not it's it's explicitly not a gym experience.

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Speaker 1: I don't go to the gym much anymore, but when

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Speaker 1: I was in college, UM, i went all of the time.

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Speaker 1: And um, it was in part to avoid my roommate. Um,

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Speaker 1: because you could watch TV as long as you kept

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Speaker 1: running on the treadmill or whatever, the TV would work.

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Speaker 1: So I would go and watch Jurassic Park like on

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Speaker 1: the treadmill, just to avoid my roommate. As long as

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Speaker 1: there wasn't anyone else waiting. I wasn't that jerk. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it was a really nice gym too. They built

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Speaker 1: it for the Olympics in nineties six, and they had

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Speaker 1: a pool with like all the diving boards and a

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Speaker 1: slide um and it was actually a really good experience.

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Speaker 1: I did lift Um. I did lift weights at the time,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't really get any any dudes coming up

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Speaker 1: to tell me that I was doing it incorrectly, which

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about that does happen quite a bit. Um.

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Speaker 1: Before we get into some industry numbers, just a disclaimer.

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Speaker 1: The fitness industry has a world of other problems to

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Speaker 1: tackle on top of sexism, homophobia, transphobia. They are not

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Speaker 1: always welcome to non binary folks. There's able is um um.

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Speaker 1: They can be exclusionary because of cost and time commitment

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Speaker 1: or even travel. So there there are all of these

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Speaker 1: things on top of the conversation we're having today. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad you've mentioned that. I have to say, I think

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Speaker 1: I've mentioned this on the show before, but I I

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Speaker 1: love riding my bike. I love city bike riding, outdoor

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Speaker 1: bike riding. But what I wanted to continue to, you know,

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Speaker 1: be in shape during the winter. I was looking for

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Speaker 1: a cycling a cycling program, and before I found my

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Speaker 1: my gym, I am, we're going to soul cycle. And

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Speaker 1: you know, no shame to a soul cycle, but feeling

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Speaker 1: really out of place that I didn't have super fair

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Speaker 1: and see athletic wear. Like the people who did soul

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Speaker 1: cycle looked like fitness models. They all had this very

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Speaker 1: specific kind of athleisure outfit and yeah, it just it

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Speaker 1: didn't feel like I certainly couldn't afford, you know, forty

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Speaker 1: five shirts just to ride a bike. And I really

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Speaker 1: felt like I was like, I'll never go here again,

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Speaker 1: Like it just really I felt super out of place. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it can really add up, and that like that forty

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Speaker 1: five shirt on top of what you're paying for membership

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Speaker 1: or for classes and Jim's Jim's can be places that

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Speaker 1: do not feel welcoming for one reason or another. And

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about all of that, but well,

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Speaker 1: let's start with some numbers just to show how to

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Speaker 1: give this conversation while we're why we're talking about it,

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Speaker 1: like meaning how much money it is. So the fitness

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Speaker 1: industry is a big business. Some estimates put the number

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Speaker 1: of Americans that have at least one gym are club

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Speaker 1: membership at forty five million people. A membership typically costs

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Speaker 1: somewhere between fifty dollars to fifty dollars a month. Around

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Speaker 1: the world, the health club industry accounted for over seventy

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Speaker 1: five billion dollars and almost on two million members, and

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Speaker 1: specialty gyms like soul Cycle or CrossFit grew by seventy

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Speaker 1: percent between and and probably surprising no one. Women are

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Speaker 1: more likely to drop out than men, and one of

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Speaker 1: the main reasons for that is this feeling of being judged.

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Speaker 1: Teen surveyed from Cosmo found that women are gym timidated.

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Speaker 1: That's their word, not ours, although it's a good one.

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Speaker 1: Twice as many women reported feelings of embarrassment and working

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Speaker 1: out as compared to men. Almost half of the female

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Speaker 1: respondents that they avoided the weightlifting area because of the

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Speaker 1: quote type of people there, which we can assume is men.

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Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Yeah. I mean not that they're not

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Speaker 1: women weightlifters talk about. But you know, when you think

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Speaker 1: of having to walk through the weightlifting area of a

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Speaker 1: gym to get to wherever you're going, I would imagine

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Speaker 1: that would be a heavily male, you know, male skewed area.

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Speaker 1: It is. And we have some numbers behind that that

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Speaker 1: we'll get into later. Millions fewer women regularly take part

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Speaker 1: in sports or exercise than men, and many studies have

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Speaker 1: found that this intimidation and sexism are some of the

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Speaker 1: reasons behind that. And this is a big deal because

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Speaker 1: it directly impacts your health and your well being. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Another aspect of this is black women report working out

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Speaker 1: less because of hair. A study in the Archives of

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Speaker 1: Dermatology found that two out of five African American women

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Speaker 1: avoid exercising them because they're worried about their hair. Dr

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Speaker 1: Amy McMichael, the study senior researcher and a dermatologist at

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Speaker 1: Wake Forest University School of Medicine in Winston Salem, North Carolina,

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Speaker 1: based to study on her own experiences. She says, as

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Speaker 1: an African American woman, I have that problem and my

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Speaker 1: friends have that problem. So I wondered if my patients

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Speaker 1: have that problem them as women. It sucks that many

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Speaker 1: of us are letting sexism, letting things like concerns about

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Speaker 1: our hair, letting things like sham about our bodies impact

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Speaker 1: our health. It sucks that this is the world that

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Speaker 1: we have to live in. It does, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: so we can't even let go of how we look.

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Speaker 1: When we're at the gym where you're not supposed to

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Speaker 1: look good like your gross you're sweating, and you're you're

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Speaker 1: working on improving your health, are you know? Unfortunately oftentimes

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Speaker 1: your looks but your health. And even so this self

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Speaker 1: consciousness about how you look gets in the way of

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Speaker 1: that and prevents you from pursuing something that you might enjoy,

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Speaker 1: that you might want to pursue and that is healthy

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Speaker 1: for you. That that's upsetting. And you made an interesting

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Speaker 1: point off Mike where It's this weird when you actually

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Speaker 1: think about the gym and you think about fact that

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Speaker 1: women aren't going because of you know, they're they're feeling

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Speaker 1: whatever kind of way about about our bodies. It's so

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Speaker 1: weird that you are working out in some ways, like

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Speaker 1: you just said, to improve the way your body looks

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Speaker 1: in some cases, but you're that same body or that

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Speaker 1: same weirdness and shame around the way that our bodies

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Speaker 1: present keeps you from the gym. It's this very weird

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Speaker 1: cycle that doesn't really make any sense when you when

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Speaker 1: you think about it, you know, yeah, I I was

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Speaker 1: telling ridget Um, I now feel like I just want

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Speaker 1: to do a whole mini series about all of these

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Speaker 1: fascinating social like more raise and things that occur at

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Speaker 1: the gym. I have a friend who specifically will leave.

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Speaker 1: She goes to a small gym, and she goes it

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Speaker 1: really off hours so that no one else will be

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Speaker 1: there to see her work out, and she'll leave if

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Speaker 1: someone else comes in. She's too self conscious, she won't stay.

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Speaker 1: My gym doesn't have a changing room. But my favorite

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Speaker 1: displays at bigger gyms are those older women who don't

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Speaker 1: give a who are walking around the locker room naked.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, please do you? I love it. I

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Speaker 1: hope that's me one day. UM. So I've wanted to

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Speaker 1: include a brief history of jams because I thought it

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Speaker 1: was fascinating. UM and plus just to see if this

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Speaker 1: kind of dichotomy of men and women at gym's has

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Speaker 1: always been a thing that's been around. Um and before

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Speaker 1: we get into the sexism bit, we're gonna we're gonna

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Speaker 1: look at that history and um CMC did an entire

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Speaker 1: episode on the history of American gyms. So this is

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Speaker 1: gonna be brief, and um, very very brief. But Jim's

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Speaker 1: first got their start in Greece, where naked men attended

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Speaker 1: public gym's as a way to prep for battle or

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Speaker 1: competitions or other male only activities. The word gymnasium, by

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Speaker 1: the way, if you're looking for some trivia to impress

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Speaker 1: people with, stems from the Greek word gym nose, which

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Speaker 1: means naked. When the Greco Roman Empire collapsed, Jim's were

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Speaker 1: seen as unfashionable and did not make a comeback on

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Speaker 1: a larger scale to the nineteen hundreds, and it was

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Speaker 1: around this time that schools started including Jim's to support

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Speaker 1: growing up programs in pursuits. The first commercial gym opened

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Speaker 1: a little before this in eighteen forties Brussels, Belgium. The

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Speaker 1: y m c A got its start in eighteen first

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Speaker 1: in London, and this would become a big player in

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Speaker 1: terms of the fitness for men and boys, and the

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Speaker 1: term body building was coined at the Boston y m

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Speaker 1: c A in eight one to describe a set of

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Speaker 1: fitness courses. Now we're mostly talking about male only spaces,

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Speaker 1: but there were still some women in the mix. Katherine

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Speaker 1: esther Stowe's eighteen fifty six book Physiology and Calistics for

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Speaker 1: Schools and Families recommended physical education for both boys and girls.

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Speaker 1: She did think that some exercises were not met for

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Speaker 1: quote the Female Constitute Usan, but her work was pretty

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Speaker 1: revolutionary for the time. When Jack Lolaine opened what many

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Speaker 1: believed to be the first American Health Cup in ninety six,

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Speaker 1: he was a big proponent of women being allowed to

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Speaker 1: lift weights, but for the most part, folks ignored him.

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Speaker 1: The first salons for women open during the thirties to

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Speaker 1: courtesy of rivals Elizabeth Arden and Helena Rubinstein, and these

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Speaker 1: were some of the first places to sell women on

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Speaker 1: the idea that their physical appearance was in their control,

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Speaker 1: not just a matter of say God or nature. With

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Speaker 1: a regiment of light exercises like stretching, yoga and dancing,

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Speaker 1: and some cosmetics, you could achieve the look, figure, and

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Speaker 1: posture you desired. And this is one of the many

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Speaker 1: ways that wait and figure got all tangled up with

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Speaker 1: the beauty standard. As Rubinstein used to say, there are

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Speaker 1: no ugly women, only lazy ones, right, So this easily

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Speaker 1: transitioned into the fat of women during the forties and

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Speaker 1: fifties of reducing a k a losing weight. However, exercise

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Speaker 1: was not the way that women went about this, since

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Speaker 1: sweating and public was used as unladylike and physical exertion

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Speaker 1: was believed to be bad for the uterus. Quick f y, I,

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Speaker 1: it's not women. Women use diet pills or machines that

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Speaker 1: shook you and rolled you out like dough to get

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Speaker 1: rid of that fat. The most successful of these salons

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Speaker 1: with a chain called Slenderella, who we are our eternal

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Speaker 1: thanks for the quote bikini body. Oh, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for that, Slenderella. Thank you also, f I I.

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Speaker 1: If you have a body and a bikini you have

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Speaker 1: a bikini body. That's just how words work. Trail raising.

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Speaker 1: American female bodybuilder Pudgy Stockton opened her salon of figure

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Speaker 1: Development in but even that was advertised as a place

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Speaker 1: to reduce, not a place to put on muscle or bodybuild.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't until the sixties and seventies that women begin

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Speaker 1: extra sizing and bigger numbers, not at gyms, though in

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Speaker 1: their homes where no one will be exposed to their

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Speaker 1: unladylike sweat and flab. Now the main reason behind this

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Speaker 1: were televised we day exercise programs targeting housewives. Jack Lelane

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Speaker 1: was one of the more popular ones, along with Debbie Drake.

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Speaker 1: Drake was the one who first popularized representations of what

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Speaker 1: a woman exercising should look like. The message of these

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Speaker 1: shows seemed to be watch your figures, ladies, or your

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Speaker 1: man might ditch you for a better looking woman one

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Speaker 1: who exercises the lanes. Nineteen sixty four exercise album was

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Speaker 1: called How to Keep Your Husband Happy, Look Slim, Keep Trim,

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Speaker 1: which is a great example of the divide that we

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Speaker 1: still see in the exercise world, women exercising for their

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Speaker 1: looks and men exercising for achievement in night. Physician Kenneth

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Speaker 1: Cooper also played a role in getting more women to

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Speaker 1: exercise when he released his book Aerobics, a term he coined.

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Speaker 1: In it, he presented scientific evidence that exercise what's good

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Speaker 1: for you, It was good for your health. The first

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Speaker 1: bar studio got its start during the sixties two and

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Speaker 1: if you're unfamiliar. Bar is a type of workout program

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Speaker 1: that combines some ballets, some yoga, some stretching and strength exercises,

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Speaker 1: and a fun fact. It used to be used to

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Speaker 1: teach women to improve their sex lives. Oh, that is

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Speaker 1: a fun fact. It's mostly seen as something more women

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Speaker 1: take part in than men. Jazzer Size, another physical activity

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Speaker 1: typically dominated by women, got going in nineteen sixty nine.

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Speaker 1: This company would become the second fastest growing franchise by

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Speaker 1: second only two Domino's Pizza. You got to eat your

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Speaker 1: pizza and then jazzer Size. That's what's the gym that

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Speaker 1: they do have pizza at the gym? Is it Planet Fitness? Oh? Man,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know such a thing existed. Yeah, it's true.

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Speaker 1: Pizza Monday. Planet Fitness has Pizzaoney, not that makes a

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Speaker 1: difference to this episode. I just thought you should know.

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Speaker 1: The seventies saw a lot of things that made go

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Speaker 1: into the gym a more popular activity for women. The

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Speaker 1: invention of the sports brawl and Title nine, chains of

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Speaker 1: quote figure salons promising women that they would be able

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Speaker 1: to get back into the dress size that they're proud of.

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Speaker 1: While COVID places did exist, a lot of them operated

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Speaker 1: on an alternate schedule of male to female days. Isn't

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Speaker 1: that wild? You'd have to know the Oh, today's the

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Speaker 1: woman day. I can't go to the gym. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting interesting. What else is interesting is the number

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Speaker 1: of women going to the gym went up even more

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Speaker 1: in the eighties thanks to Jane Fonda's exercise videos. I

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Speaker 1: had heard of these until I researched this episode. I

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Speaker 1: had no idea what a huge cultural deal they were.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, they were huge. They were huge. I

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Speaker 1: remember my mom was into Jane Fonda's workout videos. And

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Speaker 1: don't you remember that the lyrics to um baby got back?

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Speaker 1: You know what is it? Girlfriend drives a Honda? How

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Speaker 1: does yeah? Your girlfriend drops a Honda? Just brokeout tapes

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Speaker 1: with Fonda like it's a It was a cultural mainstay apparently.

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Speaker 1: It was worth noting though, that most gyms up to

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Speaker 1: this point were still single sex. Think about how recent

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Speaker 1: that is. That's the eighties. Um, more and more co

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Speaker 1: ed gym started opening as Jim chains took off and

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Speaker 1: women inspired by Jane Fonda flocked to them, and they're

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Speaker 1: wonderfully bright eighties gym fashion. The nineteen two cover of

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Speaker 1: Time magazine read coming on Strong, the new ideal of beauty,

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Speaker 1: and it had a picture of a woman like in

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Speaker 1: gym clothes getting ready to go to the gym. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: that's just like I'm thinking about. That was like incredible.

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Speaker 1: Their offense were amazing. They were going to the gym,

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Speaker 1: like just like you're going to a club or something,

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Speaker 1: or like eighties problem like those I could look at

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Speaker 1: eighties workout clothes for women for or it is so

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Speaker 1: interesting what I love about the eighties, Like anytime you're

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Speaker 1: watching a hundred years of fashion, whatever it is, like

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Speaker 1: wedding dresses, Jim, you can pick out the eighties. It

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Speaker 1: is wildly different than anything else. Definitely now that new

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Speaker 1: ideal of beauty still focused on slimness, and it meant

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Speaker 1: many hours of hard work and more women hitting the

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Speaker 1: gym but as scientific evidence came out suggesting that an

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Speaker 1: ideal exercise routine should include some strength training, more women

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Speaker 1: moved to traditionally male spaces. And you know what this means,

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Speaker 1: sexism gets exposed. And we'll talk more about that sexism

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Speaker 1: after a quick break and we're back. Thank you sponsor.

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Speaker 1: This moves us into the modern day. And yes, sexism,

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Speaker 1: because the fitness industry is rife with it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: think about the phrase law a room talk that that

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Speaker 1: is a perfect example of how much sexism is in

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Speaker 1: the industry. And they're also these really um not great

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Speaker 1: ads for gems. One of them reads cheat on your girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: not your workout. Gross. An ad for a gym in

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Speaker 1: Germany made headlines when it was named the most sexist

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Speaker 1: ad in the country. It was an image of a

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Speaker 1: traditionally attractive woman with her eyes closed sucking on a

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Speaker 1: very phallic shaped ice pop captioned with the words hot

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Speaker 1: hot baby, which in German is he host baby. I

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Speaker 1: think so like it's an ice ice baby pun. Um,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't know it's for a gym looking at it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what does that have to do with working out? They

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Speaker 1: said it meant that you could get a nice refreshing

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Speaker 1: ice pop at the inter of your workout. Okay, I'm skeptical,

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Speaker 1: so I note. I hate advertisement where it blends sexy

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Speaker 1: stuff with things that aren't sexy. So it'll be like,

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Speaker 1: are you you know telling me that this gym is

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Speaker 1: a sex place? Like I get. I get very confused

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Speaker 1: by advertisements where it's like, am I supposed to have

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Speaker 1: sex with a sandwich? Yeah? I know exactly what you mean. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Think about something like Sports Illustrated, which historically and hasn't

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Speaker 1: done a great job when it comes to depicting women

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Speaker 1: and issues from nine female athletes only accounted for three

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Speaker 1: percent of stories covered, and when the US women's soccer

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Speaker 1: team won the World Cup in several television stations spent

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Speaker 1: more time covering when one of the players took off

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Speaker 1: her shirt and revealed her sports bra then they did

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Speaker 1: covering the actual win that was so controversial sports Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, a sports bra. It's not just ads, though.

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Speaker 1: A sixteen study out of University of Westminister found that

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Speaker 1: the more muscle a heterosexual man has, the more likely

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Speaker 1: he is to have sexist beliefs like in traditional gender roles.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps the more muscular dudes were also more likely to

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Speaker 1: report hostility towards women. So it makes sense that a

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Speaker 1: lot of that attitude would permeate into the fitness culture

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Speaker 1: and gems where a buff guy would spend a lot

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Speaker 1: of his time putting on that muscle. Always important to

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Speaker 1: note difference between correlation causation things like that, but um,

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Speaker 1: it was an interesting finding by this study. On top

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Speaker 1: of that, activities that put on muscle have historically been

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Speaker 1: dominated by men and really kind of largely still are.

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Speaker 1: Now this is starting to change a little bit, but

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Speaker 1: very slowly. Women have been sold fitness has a way

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Speaker 1: to stay thin in tone, and men have been sold

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Speaker 1: as a way to bulk up. And on top of that,

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Speaker 1: since women are doing more of the child caring and

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Speaker 1: chores around the household, they might not have the same

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Speaker 1: ability as men to go to the gym. So let's

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Speaker 1: let's dive into some of the types of sexism that

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Speaker 1: you might encounter the gym, some of the flavors, if

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Speaker 1: you will, Starting with Jim dress code policies. Now, we've

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Speaker 1: already talked a bit about dress codes and some of

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Speaker 1: the messaging behind them. Jim's often outlined rules for how

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Speaker 1: women dress forbidding sports brawls only, or tank tops that

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Speaker 1: are quote too revealing, yoga pants that are too tight.

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Speaker 1: And we just saw this with Serrina Williams, which I

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Speaker 1: have to say pissed me off so royally. Oh me too,

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Speaker 1: me too, And I mean you don't see these kind

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Speaker 1: of guidelines for men. This is usually women don't don't

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Speaker 1: wear two revealing of tops, okay um. And this is

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest problems with women face in general.

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Speaker 1: And it's no different at the gym. That women's clothing

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Speaker 1: choice is solely to attract me all attention, and that

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Speaker 1: the less clothings she wears, the more attention she wants.

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Speaker 1: But it's a gym, it's hot, you're working out. Women

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Speaker 1: are told not to dress too provocatively, but we aren't

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Speaker 1: dressing provocatively. We're dressing for comfort for the working out

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Speaker 1: part that we're there for. And for women with bigger

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Speaker 1: boobs or butts, provocative is hard to avoid exactly. It's

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Speaker 1: just this assumption that men don't have to worry about

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Speaker 1: being provocative or attracting attention or blah blah blah whatever nonsense,

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Speaker 1: and that as women were there trying to you know,

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Speaker 1: stay in shape and and be healthy and take care

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Speaker 1: of our bodies. Our number one concern should be what

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Speaker 1: are men thinking? How are they responding to how I'm dressed,

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Speaker 1: not what you're there for, what you're paying money for,

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Speaker 1: which is to get in shape. And what's kind of

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Speaker 1: interesting about this is so many women have reported being

429
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: embarrassed working out in front of men as one of

430
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: their main deterrens for going to the gym, which we

431
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: talked about a little bit. In the front, you might

432
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: not have makeup on, you might be wearing your baggy

433
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: T shirt, or maybe you're wearing a shirt that rides

434
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: up and put your granny panties on full display for

435
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: all to see. Older women said that they didn't want

436
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: to be the source of laughter or repulsion. So it

437
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: makes sense to me that some women do dress up

438
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: to go to the gym to combat this insecurity, maybe

439
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: you do put on those nice athletes your pants and

440
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: you put on makeup, um, just to give you some

441
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: kind of kind of like the armor we talked about before,

442
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: just something to combat that insecurity, even in a small way. Yeah,

443
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: I know that there's a lot of folks out there,

444
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: Like I see it online where people are like, oh, look,

445
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: at her and full makeup and hair going to the gym.

446
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: But if that's what makes me feel comfortable, you know, I, I.

447
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: You can't fault anyone for putting on the armor that

448
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 1: they need to feel confident in a world where women

449
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: are always scrutinized. Yeah, and we're not going to talk

450
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: about it in much in this episode. But I did

451
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: read that, Um, apparently gems are a place where you

452
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: meet people these days. You know, well, what, it's a

453
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: brave new world up there. Um, are you talking about dating?

454
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: You phrased that. I was like, you meet people? What

455
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: could she be talking about? Um? And here here's a

456
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: new one that when it for me, at least when

457
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: it comes to dress code. In a middle school sent

458
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: home a letter about their gym cloes policy. One parent

459
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: who received the letter posted about it on Reddit. Quote.

460
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: I was floored when I went to the school and

461
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: was told that my seventh grade daughter would be responsible

462
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: for bringing her gym uniform home, laundering it, and bringing

463
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: it back, while my eighth grade son would quote just

464
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 1: give it to the school for them to watch, since

465
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: they didn't trust the boys to do the same. I'm

466
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: so angry either. Watch all the kids uniforms are none

467
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: of them. Don't tell my kid that if he doesn't

468
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: accomplish something, especially historically feminine activity like laundry, that someone

469
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: else will do it for him. My kids have been

470
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: responsible for their own laundry for five years. Boys don't

471
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: watch their takeoff points easy as that fail them if

472
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: they don't do what they're supposed to do. I've never

473
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: heard of that before. That is wild to me, right,

474
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: and also it I mean, I know this isn't the point,

475
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: but one it completely you know, obscurity idea that there

476
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: are people who are not who do not identify as

477
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: boys or girls too. What if you were a little

478
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: girl and you didn't live in a household that has

479
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: launching facilities like that would be a real problem. It's

480
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: it's almost sort of adding this really weird burden on

481
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: the girls that goes beyond just like gender, it's also classes,

482
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: like not everybody grows up in a house where they

483
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: have a washer and dryer just like downstairs in their basement. Yeah. Absolutely,

484
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: Um my school didn't have JAM uniforms, so I'm very

485
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: I don't have much experience with this at all. I'm

486
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: just shocked by it. Yeah, my I went to a

487
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: really all all girls Catholic school. I think we had

488
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: uniforms for Jim, but we didn't really do a lot

489
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: during gym, Like sometimes on nice days we would just

490
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: like walk around the block and once we watched like

491
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: sometimes we watch movies, like I don't know much have

492
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: a movies and gym. I have a very distinct memory

493
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: of watching um this Ben Stiller Edward Norton comedy about

494
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: Catholicism Engine Class. So it wasn't even like about Jim's.

495
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: It was just and some and sometimes even do the

496
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: Richard Simmons workouts. Okay, so are are Jim? We were

497
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: sort of we were playing it fast and loose Jim Class.

498
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: I've got to agree, Bridge, I gotta agree with that

499
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: assessment before we move on. I wanted to include something

500
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: that gave me a good juggle. While researching this whole thing,

501
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: I was reading an article about the fad of ath

502
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: leisure and whether female sports where is sexist in itself,

503
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: and the author expressed shock that the study featured in

504
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: the article found that the biggest reason women reported for

505
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: wearing athletes your clothing outside of the gym was comfort

506
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: and not fashion. What we've been no no, that must

507
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: be incorrect. Oh my god, I have to say sometimes

508
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: this is such a like I shouldn't even admit this.

509
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: Every now and then I'll wear I do have a

510
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: little bit of ath leisure. I'll wear it around just

511
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: because I want people to like think like, oh, look

512
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: who's been working out? Like I want the smug feeling

513
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: that comes with It's like, really, I've just been sleeping

514
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: and watching TV all day. But if I go out

515
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: in this outfit, people will think, Oh, there's a girl

516
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: that's got her life together. She just went to yoga.

517
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: You know now that you mentioned that. When I see

518
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: people on athletes, you're the first thing I think is

519
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: that they are going to the gym. Are athletes like

520
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: yoga or something, So you're onto something, bridget. Nothing makes

521
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: me think a woman in public has her shipped together,

522
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: like being an athleisure and carrying a yoga mat under

523
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: her arm and like ten a, I'm on a Saturday. Yeah,

524
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: that's true the article. Other than getting that well a

525
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: little wrong, I would say the article did make some

526
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: good points, like the shift of women's sports where from

527
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: performance focused two looks focused and often a sexualized focus,

528
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: something that we don't see reflected in men's sportswear, and

529
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: that women's sports where is more expensive. Anyone who has

530
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: had to buy a good sports bra knows that absolutely.

531
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: We have some more, some more stuff to talk about here,

532
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: but first we're gonna pause for a quick break or

533
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor. Okay,

534
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: So now let's talk about female only Jim's because they

535
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: come up a lot when you're talking about sexism in

536
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: gyms and uh in the fitness industry in general. So

537
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: female only gyms and gym classes are they sexist? Well?

538
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: The question was the source of a lawsuit in London.

539
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: The man behind the lawsuit, Peter Lloyd, said, quote they

540
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: still charged men the same full price membership as women,

541
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: but refused to offer the equivalent option of male only sessions.

542
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: The gym and question had four and twenty two hours

543
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: a year set aside for female only classes. The response

544
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: to this was swift. Jezebel essentially told him to give

545
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: women the four hundred twenty two hours and stop whining.

546
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: Wonkett called him a limy nutsack. His comeback did not

547
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,719
Speaker 1: paint him in the best light. To be sure, he said, quote,

548
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: a group of agenda driven feminist who say a minority

549
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: of women feel bad about their bodies were the ones

550
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: attacking him. I liked the I like the quote a

551
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: gen a fueled feminists. I'm gonna put that on a

552
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: T shirt. We should and we have the ability. Now, Oh,

553
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: that's right, we should fud the shirts. That's right. That's right. Also, listeners,

554
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: if you have any design ideas, send them our away

555
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: weekend make shirts. We can make shirts by no means.

556
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: Is this the only lawsuit against jims that offer female

557
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: only classes or female only Jim's Health Works of female

558
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: only JIM in Boston was sued in six by James J. Foster,

559
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: you know who came out on his side. The National

560
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: Organization of Women, The president of Massachusetts Now commented at

561
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: the time, if you want equal rights, then you want

562
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: them for everybody, not just when it benefits you. And

563
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: Foster won his lawsuit. The story does not end there.

564
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: Members of Health Works protested so much that in a

565
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: bill was signed making single sex gyms legal in the state,

566
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: and other states have followed suit, but more than one

567
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: has got in the opposite direction. One thing of note

568
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: um in some places like Fitness First and quitar men

569
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: and women are forbidden from working out in the same

570
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: space for sort of the opposite but same reason. It's

571
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 1: something that we'll have to come back to and talk

572
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: about because it's a different perspective on the issue, and

573
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: we'd love to do a deeper dive. Another thing that

574
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: we should mention are queer sports gapes, something like Gay Games,

575
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: which is a space for LGBTQ folks and allies. A

576
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 1: study found that not only were members of the Gay

577
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: Games more likely to report a sense of community and

578
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 1: higher self esteem, but they were much more likely to

579
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: become politically active when it came to LGBTQ causes, which

580
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: is not surprising to me at all. Yeah, a good

581
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: gym like you were talking about with yours is a

582
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: is a great place to find community and to just

583
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: have these conversations with people that perhaps you wouldn't have

584
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: encountered in your everyday life. Now, if you're wondering why

585
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: there aren't that many male only gems or classes, because

586
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: there are some, very few, but some, and that's because

587
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: there's not really a demand for them, I wonder why.

588
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 1: I bet could that be? I bet you could hazard

589
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: a successful guest on the flip side. If you're wondering

590
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: why there is a demand for female only gyms in classes,

591
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: you also probably know why that is. You can find

592
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 1: so many accounts of women facing incessant harassment from men

593
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: at the gym, going so far as to pull out

594
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: the headphones of women working out to talk to them.

595
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: Never do that, aside from me, women getting constantly asked

596
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: out at the gym when they're just there to work out,

597
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 1: Women being body shamed or cat called, women having men

598
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: man's plain working out to them. So many women have

599
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: shared their experiences with man's playing at the gym, whether

600
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: it's to just the weight on the machine to something

601
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: lower without her permission to keep said woman from hurting

602
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 1: herself or her lady parts. Um adjusting a woman's form

603
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: without asking, or even telling women that they're wearing their

604
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: sports brought in correctly. Um. Or that nice ass is

605
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: a compliment. Don't you understand how compliments work? That kind

606
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 1: of thing gross. And what's really awful is that these

607
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: behaviors aren't always just limited to JIM goers. You'll have

608
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: constructors say things like, ladies, it's okay if you need

609
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: to tap out, but fellas if you tap out you

610
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: will be ruthlessly mocked, and basically it's saying, oh, women,

611
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: you're so delicate, you can't do it, but men, men up,

612
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: you need to do it otherwise will be made fun

613
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: of and you won't be really a man, right. And

614
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 1: if there's a single female in the class, perhaps like

615
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: just one female and all the rest of the participants

616
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: in class or male, she'll often be singled out and

617
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: used to motivate the other male participants, as if the

618
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: worst thing would be for a woman to outperform you.

619
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 1: And yeah, that that might seem small and relatively harmless,

620
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: but it's still reinforces these sexist perceptions, and it undercuts

621
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: the what the woman is accomplishing and what she can acomplish.

622
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: And you're you're paying for the pleasure if you're at

623
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: if you're at a gym, odds are you're paying to

624
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: be there? You're you're paying for someone to basically insult

625
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: you had a room full of strangers. It's so awful,

626
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: it is. And this behavior isn't limited to men, or

627
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 1: at least I would say the body sharing part particularly isn't.

628
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: And probably the sexist language of dudes, um, don't let

629
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: this lady out do you. I'm sure some female instructors

630
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: have probably used that as well. Um also a decent

631
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: amount of women only boutique gems. We're pushing really hard

632
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: for weight loss, whether the gym goer wanted it or not.

633
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 1: So say you you come in and you're a new

634
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: you're thinking about signing up for a gym for a while,

635
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: and still sometimes they want to like the first thing

636
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: they want to know is how much weight do you

637
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: want to lose? Which is not great either that that

638
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 1: could be such a deterrent um. And this is changing,

639
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: but for a while it was pretty standard. Almost yeah,

640
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: and a lot of women when interviewed about why they

641
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: go to an all female gym, they pretty much said

642
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 1: that they would like to go to a co ed gym,

643
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: but that they're so male dominated and essentially they already

644
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: feel like male only spaces. So in really interesting study

645
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: explored how these spaces are kind of paradoxes. There's spaces

646
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: that are presumably about empowering women, but they still push

647
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: for this head of a normative female beauty standard, and

648
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: their spaces where women flocked to to escape the mail

649
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: gaze or being put on display. But it's almost as

650
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: women aren't comfortable with their bodies, they aren't satisfied with

651
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: their bodies, and they're uncomfortable trying to work toward the

652
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,439
Speaker 1: body they think men will want in front of men.

653
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 1: And so it's kind of this paradox that we talked

654
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: about earlier where gyms are this weird space where you

655
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: go there, you're sort of sold that it's an empowering

656
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: thing for a woman only jim to exist. You go

657
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: there to avoid the male gaze, but then once you

658
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: get there, there's this real pressure to work out so

659
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: that you will be a active to men. And it

660
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: really is kind of another kind of cool girl way.

661
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: It's like the cool girl workout a kind of way. Yeah,

662
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: where trying isn't cool. You don't want to show men

663
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: that you're trying to get this body that you think

664
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 1: that they want. It's so you go to a female

665
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: only jam to escape the male gaze, but it's still there.

666
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: Like there's so many accounts of women saying like you

667
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: could you could almost feel it even though they were

668
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: no men um. A lot of co ed gems are

669
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: laid out in a way that requires women to walk

670
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: through the weightlifting section where often mostly men are working

671
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: out and this walk can be awkward and lead to

672
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 1: some unwanted leering and comments. And that was the case

673
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: for Vanessa Golumbuski, as she described in her article Why

674
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: I Quit the Gym for Refinery twenty nine, she quit

675
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: her local Planet Fitness branch after months of being cat

676
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: called and harrassed and having her complaints ignored. When she

677
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: posted about it on social media, the Planet Fitness social

678
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: media account suggested to her that she should try quote

679
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: going to the gym a little earlier or later to

680
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: avoid the rush of male members. Change your schedule. We

681
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 1: don't need to fix the problem you you you'd work

682
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: on that on your end. What a crappy response. That's

683
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: totally just shifting the onus onto the person who was

684
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: there to work out, was paying for this this opportunity, Like, oh,

685
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: our gym suck. Yeah, maybe you should try changing your

686
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: whole schedule to fix it for us, right. Musician Ellie

687
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: Golding has also spoken up about this. She's apparently been

688
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: leered at when she goes to the gym, and I

689
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: guess I've I've thought a lot about all of this

690
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: um recently because it has been really fascinating research and

691
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: I suppose to me female only gems is it's kind

692
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: of like female only train cars in India where I

693
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: get it and I'm not really opposed, but it does

694
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: feel like you're dealing with the symptom and not the problem.

695
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: And it's once again putting the responsibility on women for

696
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 1: men's behaviors. So I would rather we didn't need them,

697
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: but that's not the reality. And to be clear, I've

698
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: gone to a female only gem and loved it. Like

699
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: I am more comfortable in general when it's or at

700
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: least nowadays, when it's mostly women, but that when I

701
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: was in college it was mostly men and it didn't

702
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: bother me at all. But I had a female workout

703
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: partner and also, like I said, it was a pretty

704
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: good experience. So it's one of those things where I

705
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: get it, but I'm a little sad that it is

706
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: a thing that has to exist for people to feel comfortable. Yeah,

707
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: And I just wish that we lived in a world

708
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: where we didn't have to have female only gim's, female

709
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: only to train cars. I think I think there is

710
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: something really powerful about women's only spaces and collectives, and

711
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, I have found a lot

712
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: of power in those spaces. But I want them to

713
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: exist because we want them, not because we need them.

714
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: Right and if we're if we look at like weightlifting,

715
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: because that is something that has been typically male dominated

716
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: son Jana or maybe it's son Yana, so I pronounced

717
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: it incorrectly. Um Sathia and wrote about this while working

718
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: out as a gym and why it sucks as a woman,

719
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to weightlifting. She pointed out that

720
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: many gems are segregated to the bulky men lifting weights

721
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 1: and to the women doing cardio, much like a middle

722
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: school dance men on one side, women on the other.

723
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: And it's true that several surveys have found women avoid

724
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,959
Speaker 1: lifting weights out of fear of getting to buff, which

725
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: is perceived as unattractive or even unnatural in our society.

726
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: Celebrity trainer Tracy Anderson even suggested that women avoid weights

727
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 1: over three pounds. In Lorie Schultz wrote, the deliberately muscular

728
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: female body is dame risks and disturbs dominant notions of sex,

729
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: gender and sexuality, and any discressive field that includes her

730
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 1: risks opening up a side of contest and conflict, anxiety,

731
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: and ambiguity. So we have a lot of work to

732
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: do when it comes to dismantling all this gendered stuff

733
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: that we put in around body building and weightlifting and

734
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: f y I science says that you won't accidentally bulk up,

735
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: so don't worry about that. No, don't worry about that, okay.

736
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: So in conclusion, here's the thing. Working out is oddly vulnerable,

737
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: and sexism at the gym touches on so much more

738
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: than it seems on the surface, but there are positive things.

739
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: Trends show that jims are moving away from the men

740
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: lift weight, women do crunches approach. You can search hashtag

741
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: fits to gram to see all kinds of women looking

742
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: to put on some muscle. The hashtag gaining weight is

743
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: Cool had eighty thousand posts in October of lifting weights

744
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: and getting us six back. For sure is not attainable

745
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: for everyone, but it is positive that more women feel

746
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: comfortable doing it if it's something that they want to do.

747
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: Experts do warrn against treating one ideal for another, so

748
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: just keep that in mind when you're scrolling through these images.

749
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: Do not become obsessed with that ideal that is not

750
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: achievable for everybody, and something that I thought was really

751
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 1: interesting is that Saphian, the writer that we highlighted earlier,

752
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: she suggested hiring more female staff at Jim's with the

753
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: ultimate goal about split as a way to combat this

754
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: gym sexies them and to make the spaces more comfortable

755
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: for women. I would also add hire more gender nonconforming

756
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: folks just so everyone feels like they are represented and

757
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 1: welcome in these spaces. Yes, um, and if you are

758
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: able and have the body and the time and the

759
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: money to work out and the desire, because let's be real, um,

760
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: it sucks that so many women are avoiding a healthy

761
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: activity because they don't want to be her ass or

762
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 1: because they feel too insecure, and this is actually impacting health.

763
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: Good physical health ripples out to all source of things

764
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 1: like um getting better sleep, combating depression, increasing bone density,

765
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: better balance, decreased stress, lower risk of chronic diseases. Most

766
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: of us aren't going to gyms for the abs, but

767
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 1: they can be a good place to get these benefits,

768
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 1: the things that can improve your everyday life. And think

769
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: of the women. All of the women who could have

770
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: been great boxers are female weightlifters or bodybuilders that were

771
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: turned off of the gym from a bad experience or

772
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: who avoided the gym or weightlifting in particular because of

773
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: all of this stuff we've been talking about. And I

774
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: hadn't really appreciated how underrepresented women have been when it

775
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: comes to this until recently. How it's just assumed that

776
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: men will be more athletic than women. Yeah, asked someone

777
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 1: who boxes in her spare time. You know, I came

778
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: to boxing and because my dad box, and my brother box,

779
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 1: and my cream power box and boxing is a big

780
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 1: part of my family. And you know, being born a

781
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 1: woman did not mean that I got to escape the

782
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: family pastime of boxing. But for every woman who came

783
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: to it that way, there are probably women who are

784
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: just been turned off of the sport and just you know,

785
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: stopped doing it because of this. And you know, we

786
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: could be missing out on a really great female athlete

787
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: because of sexist nonsense. And think about um kids when

788
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 1: all these p classes and gym classes we've been talking about,

789
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: gym classes, apart from watching movies, they can be a

790
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: great learning opportunity for kids. If the gym teachers call

791
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: out any quote locker room talk, which admittedly only works

792
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 1: with the gym teacher. Also isn't sexist harass or what

793
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: have you. Studies show that girls are socialized, starting in

794
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: physical education classes, to think that they are less athletically

795
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: capable than boys and that less is expected of them

796
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: in that arena. It makes young girls feel and capable

797
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: and insecure with their bodies, and we need to start

798
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: changing that. And I personally had a horrible experience in

799
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: gym in middle school. There's this group of dudes that

800
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: named all of the girls after states. So the bigger

801
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: the boobs you had, the more mountainous state name you

802
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: would get and they'd shout it as you ran past,

803
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: which was really awful. So would be like Colorado was

804
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: like the big one you wanted was the so I have,

805
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 1: I'm completely flatchested, and I would have been Kansas. That's

806
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: like arrested development. There's a surfboard in the shot, yes exactly,

807
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 1: and it was. It made me very insecured. It made

808
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: me not want to participate, and it's also got me

809
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: thinking about tom Boys, which is usually a sporty girl

810
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: who likes comfortable clothes. How the masculine world of sports

811
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: fandom is legitimized, and sports that are seen as male

812
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: and those that are seen as female, like gymnastics, just

813
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: that whole thing, like how female sporting events are taken

814
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 1: less seriously received, less funding and subpart equipment. There's so

815
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: much going on here, so much, and it's all just

816
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 1: so gendered, and it reinforces this idea of the gender

817
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: buying area. Just it's just so it's just exhausting and tiring,

818
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: there's no other word for it. People should be encouraged

819
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 1: to pursue whatever athletic you know, past time they want

820
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: to and just having it work along this this gent

821
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 1: entire gender notion. It's just we just have to get

822
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: past it. Yeah, we really do. UM. We need to

823
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: save our energy for working out in the gym and

824
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: last for all of this gender nonsense. UM, if you're

825
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: nervous about going to the jam or uh yeah yeah,

826
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: working out in general, we have some suggestions, some quick suggestions. UM,

827
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: a workout plan is always good, so that like when

828
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: you come in, you know you want to hit these

829
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: certain machines or you want to do this for however

830
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,879
Speaker 1: much amount of time. UM, if you if you want

831
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: to get into lifting weights, but you're you're worried about

832
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: going up to the machine and appearing like you don't

833
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: know what you're gonna do or how to work it.

834
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: You can always talk to somebody who works there, or

835
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: you can watch videos online or read tutorials online about

836
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: the machines you want to use before you go. UM

837
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: and for Gim's offering an orientation option for beginners to

838
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: reduce this invisible barrier at the gym. That would be

839
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: one thing. Diversifying gym space in terms of age and

840
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: body type, just so people see all sorts of different

841
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: people there and make it make all of us feel

842
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: more comfortable. I think I can say when I first

843
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: started lifting weights, I had a female partner and that

844
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: really helped me get over the intimidation factor, especially because

845
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 1: she already knew what she was doing and she taught me.

846
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: So if that's an option for you, If a workout

847
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: buddy is an option for you, I highly recommend that

848
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: UM And it's also good for accountability if that's something

849
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: you're worried about and you really do want to make

850
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 1: sure that you keep up to some kind of schedule.

851
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: We had a Google calendar we shared UM. But if

852
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: it is something that you want to do, we really

853
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: want you to be able to do it and feel

854
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: comfortable doing it. So yeah, and we shouldn't let sexist

855
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: nonsense stop us from a being healthy and getting in

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00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: shape or be just pursuing the athletic activities that we

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00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: want that we're drawn to, whether it's boxing, weightlifting, whatever,

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00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: you know, we shouldn't let this really dumb societal notion

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00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 1: and gendered bs keep us from doing the things that

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00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: we want to do in life. No, we shouldn't. And

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00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: we've heard from several listeners who who are weightlifters or

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00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: are casually or even professionally um who haven't let this

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00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: gender bs get in their way and the sexism get

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00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 1: in their way. And we would love to hear from

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00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: more of you. What has your experience been with the

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00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 1: GEM and physical education or sports anything like that. Um

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00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,479
Speaker 1: We because we had a lot to say about the GEM,

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00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: We're gonna eskew listener mail, but it will be back

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00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: in the next episode, and if you want to email us,

870
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 1: you can. Our email is a mom Stuff at houstaf

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00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: works dot com and reveal double on social media. We're

872
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 1: on Instagram at stuff I'm Ever told You, and we're

873
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and you can check

874
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: out our new line of T shirts that you mentioned

875
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: in this episode at t public dot com, slash stores,

876
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: slash stuff Mom never told you. Yeah, we'd love to

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00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: have some design ideas from you guys. We could make

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00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 1: it happen. Thanks as always to Andrew Howard, our producer,

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00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening.