Speaker 1: Well we'll record Jesus, Okay, let's do it. I'm finishing
Speaker 1: this thought though. But yeah, it's just like the chance
Speaker 1: that a politician just has a moment just to show
Speaker 1: your human and just kind of be like, listen, man,
Speaker 1: I get it, Castro sucks, I get it, Communism sucks.
Speaker 1: But then some really good cigars. See, I don't even care,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, I have my opinions about Cuba, which
Speaker 1: is that they're not particularly any worse than any other
Speaker 1: kintry out there, right like I can. Yeah, they've done
Speaker 1: a bunch of fucked up ship but like I'm living
Speaker 1: in the United States of America, we have got nothing
Speaker 1: to talk about there. Um like, let us let us
Speaker 1: have fucking quality cigars because they are better, like they're
Speaker 1: they're just very Cuba is the best at making tobacco.
Speaker 1: Everyone's agreed on this for a long time. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: objectively better. I just don't know. Yeah, just here's your chance.
Speaker 1: You know what, let me introduce the show politics. We
Speaker 1: talked about cigars right now, how it ticks y'all? The
Speaker 1: homie Robert Evans, you know what I'm saying. One of
Speaker 1: the o g s, one of the b gs that
Speaker 1: brought your boy into the building, not top Mount Robert Evans, Hey,
Speaker 1: how is how is it going? Hey there, hello, fellow kids. Good,
Speaker 1: which leads me to the next thing. I was gonna say, Robert,
Speaker 1: you white as hale. I'm oh, my god, so white. However,
Speaker 1: however white you're thinking like this whiter just and just
Speaker 1: a big white dude. I got. If I were to
Speaker 1: describe to you the tacos my mom for mad made
Speaker 1: for us when I was a kid, you would go,
Speaker 1: my god, that is that is? I would say, those
Speaker 1: are not indibly white? That would that would be fair?
Speaker 1: My answers, yeah, oh man, oh man, that's good. Didn't know.
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. I feel like you're the perfect
Speaker 1: person to talk this through one because you're an expert
Speaker 1: in the topic, and not only the the allegory topic,
Speaker 1: but also the political topic. And my thought is this,
Speaker 1: you're a rather large white man, and I my backstory
Speaker 1: A lot of people know. By now, I've had a
Speaker 1: chance to move a lot, you know, I've lived in
Speaker 1: a lot of different environments. Started office out central living
Speaker 1: a lot of grew up with mostly Latinos, went to
Speaker 1: a very diverse high school um and out in the
Speaker 1: Inland Empire, you know, so there's a good amount of
Speaker 1: white So all that to say, I've had chance to
Speaker 1: spend a decent amount of time with white people, and uh,
Speaker 1: in a in a way that I was able to
Speaker 1: sort of humanize and understand sort of different deep cuts
Speaker 1: and variations of man aids that y'all come in. And
Speaker 1: I appreciate it now, you know, hopping the bus go
Speaker 1: to go down to Dogtown and skating Nympty pulls, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, and knowing surfer bros, knowing like
Speaker 1: the pothead white boys and then yeah that was that
Speaker 1: was that was more of my set. Yeah, yeah, white
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying That Like y'all discovered Bob
Speaker 1: Marley one day and back upon the day, yes, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden your life change once you discovered
Speaker 1: Bob Marley. But the point I'm trying to make is this,
Speaker 1: there's most definitely discovering death. Yes, yeah, that just you
Speaker 1: just oh man, that just made me like you even more.
Speaker 1: That just made me like But there was a life
Speaker 1: and marvelous times. But anyway, yes, yes, uh, there's a
Speaker 1: few things that I've learned and actually applied even to
Speaker 1: my way of life now that I learned from hanging
Speaker 1: white boys. It's y'all are fearless. And I think you're
Speaker 1: fearless in very specific ways because there's some areas that
Speaker 1: like when I would say little things like hey, what
Speaker 1: are you doing this weekend, I'm like, um, go to
Speaker 1: my grandma's house. Where's your grandma live? I would be
Speaker 1: like south Central Los Angeles? And they're like, you're going where?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, WHOA hold up? You're down to jump
Speaker 1: off a cliff when you're scared to go to South Central?
Speaker 1: Like you know, so just this weird. So you have
Speaker 1: a very specific type of fearlessness that I've learned to admire.
Speaker 1: And what that is is you just don't expect knows. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's I mean because you you don't. You don't get
Speaker 1: a lot of them. You do, but not in the
Speaker 1: kind of way everybody else does, right like you get
Speaker 1: you get. Uh. It's it's kind of like the way
Speaker 1: like you fear the police. Like everyone gets nervous when
Speaker 1: the cops pulling behind them, but like it's a real
Speaker 1: different kind of nervous if you're if you're a white dude,
Speaker 1: because it's not are they going to shoot me? It's
Speaker 1: a maybe. It's at worst, our man, are they're going
Speaker 1: to search my car and find my weed? If you
Speaker 1: grew up somewhere where you know weed is penalized. But
Speaker 1: even then it's it's abstract, and like that's the kind
Speaker 1: of thing. The idea of no is abstract in in
Speaker 1: a lot of cases, and it's it's one of those
Speaker 1: things that's like, you know, even beyond because I didn't
Speaker 1: grow up with a lot of um, you know, like family.
Speaker 1: I didn't grow up with really any family money, but
Speaker 1: I did grow up with that, with that um that
Speaker 1: that sense that like, yeah, no is is an abstract Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's no is a suggestion. Yeah, I found, you know,
Speaker 1: and and around no, you can get around no. Uh.
Speaker 1: And and also I found just not a fear of consequences.
Speaker 1: And it's just or like you just don't assume they're
Speaker 1: going to be consequences for your actions, or if you do,
Speaker 1: just talk your way out of it. Is that am
Speaker 1: I tripping? Or is that something like nails? No? That
Speaker 1: that's that's what so I I have always been, you know,
Speaker 1: especially when I'm like partying with mixed race groups of
Speaker 1: people Um, I'm I'm the cop talker guy. I've had
Speaker 1: do it in a number of situations, both in cities
Speaker 1: and like at one point in time, some friends of
Speaker 1: mine were getting married in the middle of the woods
Speaker 1: on another friend of mine's property, throwing like a huge
Speaker 1: like light shows and fireworks that we had like a
Speaker 1: perfect like it was crazy as bullshit, and like a
Speaker 1: line of fucking like six police SUVs rolled onto the
Speaker 1: land from a report from the neighbor, and like I
Speaker 1: was tripping on acid and still ran down there, like
Speaker 1: I was the point man to deal with that sort
Speaker 1: of thing, because like, um, I've know even if you're
Speaker 1: fucking tripping on acid and a half naked, if you're
Speaker 1: a tall white guy and you approach the cops in
Speaker 1: the right way, right, there's there's still a way to
Speaker 1: approach them. You can set things off on a good
Speaker 1: or a bad term. But yeah, I've always been like
Speaker 1: that guy. I learned to talk to the cops at
Speaker 1: a very early age. Um, and I got I got
Speaker 1: good at it, and it's some of it is just
Speaker 1: like it doesn't mean you're not like scared of the cops,
Speaker 1: because believe me, I am, um, but it just means
Speaker 1: you It's kind of like if you have spent time
Speaker 1: in the wilderness and you have encountered wild animals that
Speaker 1: could potentially be dangerous, and you know how to handle them,
Speaker 1: like a wild dog or a coyote, you know, a
Speaker 1: pack of coyotes or something. The way to handle them
Speaker 1: is to make yourself seem larger. You act in a
Speaker 1: certain way, you talk in a certain way. Doesn't mean
Speaker 1: you're not also frightened of those animals. It just means
Speaker 1: you know that running away from them isn't isn't the
Speaker 1: probat way to for you to handle them? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that see this, this this is perfect. So I feel
Speaker 1: like there's this like because you're like, I know what
Speaker 1: I'm doing, consequences really aren't going to be that bad.
Speaker 1: That like it to me, it's like, so then there's
Speaker 1: no fear of like running into a pack of wild
Speaker 1: animals again, Like, so the lesson I'm going to learn
Speaker 1: is not probably shouldn't go over there, it's if I do,
Speaker 1: it'll be fine. Yeah, it depends, like it depends because
Speaker 1: so so like for a little bit of perspective, the
Speaker 1: first time anybody if her pointed a gun at me,
Speaker 1: it was a cop. I was twelve, so I and
Speaker 1: trigger obviously. Yeah, And again I'm not trying to say
Speaker 1: like it was the same level of freaked out because
Speaker 1: even that, even when that was happening as a kid,
Speaker 1: it was frightening, but I didn't really see the possibility
Speaker 1: that the cop was going to fucking shoot me. Um,
Speaker 1: it was it was just nerve racking. Um. And uh
Speaker 1: so I do I've gotten good at like avoiding them
Speaker 1: to Um, It's just you know, sometimes I guess I've
Speaker 1: been able to accept as as opposed to if I
Speaker 1: didn't have the kind, if I wasn't a fucking big
Speaker 1: white dude, I think I would have made some choices
Speaker 1: that would have not put me in certain situations. And
Speaker 1: instead I was like, well, I'm still going to try
Speaker 1: to avoid interfacing with the police, but if it happens,
Speaker 1: I know how to deal with it, and so I'll
Speaker 1: continue to put myself in these situations where it might happen. Um,
Speaker 1: it wasn't like a I'm never excited to do it.
Speaker 1: It's never fun to do it. It's also not an
Speaker 1: unknown and it's not I have like a dozen case
Speaker 1: studies in the past. I can look to his times
Speaker 1: like it didn't get fucked up for me. Yes, that's look,
Speaker 1: I I love this. This is this is exactly what
Speaker 1: I wanted to cover. And as a side note, as
Speaker 1: you were explaining, like which I love, It's not that
Speaker 1: I'm not nervous, like when you know, everybody understands, you know,
Speaker 1: on this show that like I propaganda, traveled a lot,
Speaker 1: I did a lot of things, so I was never
Speaker 1: an active gang banger, you know. But I've lived in
Speaker 1: these areas and among them for most of my life,
Speaker 1: and the premise of the show is like understanding how
Speaker 1: everybody knows, understanding how how how they work, and because
Speaker 1: of that, having to figure out how to live my
Speaker 1: normal life in and in between whatever what was happening
Speaker 1: among hood activities. But like we said all the time,
Speaker 1: like the interactions with hood niggas is unavoidable, you know.
Speaker 1: And it's not that I'm not in any other way,
Speaker 1: shape or form. I'm all is aware that this situation
Speaker 1: is dangerous. But I'm not scared in the sense that
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm doing. You know what I'm
Speaker 1: saying now to talk to I know what not to
Speaker 1: say to these dudes. I'm not gonna purposefully put myself
Speaker 1: in this situation. You know what I'm saying, Like, if
Speaker 1: I know for a fact, maybe maybe Google is saying
Speaker 1: if I go down sixty, I'll get get to my
Speaker 1: house quicker. I'm like, uh, I'll go down you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just not gonna like it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what depressing what not to press. But there
Speaker 1: was a there was a moment during the protest last
Speaker 1: year where I was filming, you know, some people getting
Speaker 1: arrested because it's you want to keep an eye on
Speaker 1: the cops when they're doing that, because that's when folks
Speaker 1: tend to get sucked up. And there was this was
Speaker 1: during the brief period of time less you're in Portland,
Speaker 1: there was a curfew and a group of cops said like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're going to arrest you because you're out past the curfew.
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, the curfew specifically exempts press.
Speaker 1: I'm marked press, I'm doing my job. And he's like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to arrest you. Like what, you're going to
Speaker 1: get arrested. And the the thing that I said to
Speaker 1: him was and it was because I knew again, I
Speaker 1: I knew that this would work on him. This was
Speaker 1: like the language to use, sir, are you countermanding the
Speaker 1: mayor's orders? Never know to say that, and ituk the
Speaker 1: switch in his head. And it was fine. But then
Speaker 1: there was this protester who came up and started like
Speaker 1: talking shipped to the police, and when the police started
Speaker 1: like threatening him with arrest, he put his hands in
Speaker 1: his pockets and that was like both me and my
Speaker 1: partner like whoa, no, no, no, no, no, put our
Speaker 1: hands up. Yeah, yeah, you do not put your hands
Speaker 1: out sucking pockets around the cop. And it is like
Speaker 1: it is this level of like it's a it's a language,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's it's the same thing with what
Speaker 1: you're talking about, Like you you understand that language. It's
Speaker 1: not all a verbal language. Some of it's a spatial language,
Speaker 1: like well I could go down this street, but that
Speaker 1: means accepting this and this and this, and I don't
Speaker 1: need that right now, like I don't need it with
Speaker 1: yeah exactly, Yeah, I understand it. So that's great. So
Speaker 1: this is perfect. This episode is one of those kind
Speaker 1: of in some kind of like you know, kind of
Speaker 1: turning turning the the informer and inform E on its head,
Speaker 1: kind of situation. It's not a full you know, Garrison
Speaker 1: read me a story styles, but it's more let's have
Speaker 1: a discussion. I'm not the only expert in this conversation. Conversation.
Speaker 1: Right early on when we joined the I Heart Network,
Speaker 1: I did an episode uh called shut the funk Up
Speaker 1: you ain't gonna do Ship right, And and the premise
Speaker 1: is something that I feel like is what we're getting
Speaker 1: at when if if you're the aggressor, right, and you're
Speaker 1: making choices, doing whatever you're gonna do, and you know
Speaker 1: for a fact there's no consequences because this person you
Speaker 1: pushing towards ain't really gonna do nothing. You just keep
Speaker 1: doing it. Yeah right, yeah, because you're not gonna you're
Speaker 1: not gonna stop me. Let's just say that it's called
Speaker 1: the first mover advantage. And in psychology, yeah, yeah, why
Speaker 1: I didn't know that you just gave this whole. I
Speaker 1: thought it was that you ain't gonna do ship. No,
Speaker 1: there's a whole. There's a whole. There's a whole, like
Speaker 1: a branch of like evolutionary psychology that studies over confidence,
Speaker 1: and like, OK, why people are over confidence? And it's
Speaker 1: generally because like if you have two people competing for
Speaker 1: a resource and they're equally matched, but one person is
Speaker 1: unreasonably confident he's gonna go for that. The other person
Speaker 1: is likely to back off. He'll get the resource more often, so,
Speaker 1: which is why you gotta call people on ship, you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you just explained the whole You just explained the insurrection
Speaker 1: is yeah, exactly, that's exactly what happened, right, we just
Speaker 1: did it. You just took the way out of the
Speaker 1: whole show, because that's the answer. It's like, it's just
Speaker 1: this type of in a good way, this type of
Speaker 1: over confidence that I'm just so fascinated by. And the
Speaker 1: thought to me was I was looking at it as like, oh,
Speaker 1: because said don't happen to him. M yeah, that is
Speaker 1: why I mean, yeah, yeah. If if that was a
Speaker 1: crowd full of people who had all been like maced
Speaker 1: and arrested and beaten by cops before, they wouldn't have
Speaker 1: tried this ship they tried, they would have had the
Speaker 1: same they would have been thinking what you and I
Speaker 1: were thinking when we watched the insurrection was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: where's the fucking tear gas? Like, where's where's the fucking sticks?
Speaker 1: Y'all still alive. How do you do that? I've seen
Speaker 1: cops shoot moms in the face with like rubber bullets
Speaker 1: over less than this. What are you guys doing? They
Speaker 1: just they walked in, they walked in two the abstract
Speaker 1: version of the US infrastructure, and was like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: ain't gonna do ship and I'm bugging because I'm like okay.
Speaker 1: So many months later, so many investigations later, they were
Speaker 1: right and and and not only were they right, they
Speaker 1: did it again. There was a recent you know, unite
Speaker 1: the Right rally right that happened, uh a few weeks ago,
Speaker 1: right am, I lyon um? I mean they didn't really
Speaker 1: and not a lot of them came to d C,
Speaker 1: but they decent number of them showed up in like
Speaker 1: Salem and a couple other like state capitals. Like they're
Speaker 1: still rallying, you know, they're like yeah, like the Proud
Speaker 1: Boys have not been any less active since their whole
Speaker 1: leadership got rolled up. Um, because it's it's not as
Speaker 1: a cephalis as you know, like some of the people, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, as headless as some of the people confronting them.
Speaker 1: But also it's pretty easy, like you don't have to
Speaker 1: have a strong leadership structure to get a bunch of
Speaker 1: dudes and fucking Fred Perry Polos to show up and
Speaker 1: fight people in a state capital. It doesn't take that much, yes,
Speaker 1: of Fred Perry Polos. God, you have a way with
Speaker 1: worse sometimes. Yeah. So I was reading I was reading
Speaker 1: up on the follow up because, like I said, by
Speaker 1: prediction when the insurrection happened was this is going to
Speaker 1: keep happening in certain ways because day ain't gonna get
Speaker 1: no consequences. They're they're not afraid of any sort of
Speaker 1: consequences and if they get them, it'll be a joke. Right.
Speaker 1: So so, uh six according to AP news six you
Speaker 1: know charges right, seventy six federal please right, yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: federal yeah please? Of guilty one full got eight months, yeah,
Speaker 1: so far one and the first sentence got no jail time.
Speaker 1: That oathkeeper probably because she rolled on people Indiana woman, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, no, it's and and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: there's just the thing on Matt out with a judge
Speaker 1: who was very angry at the sentencing, and we should
Speaker 1: be angry about the sentencing. It is a little early
Speaker 1: to say, because again most of them haven't been sentenced yet,
Speaker 1: so we'll we'll see, but I'm not super optimistic, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And even then, Like, here's the thing. I think what
Speaker 1: a lot of them are looking at is how the
Speaker 1: Republican like Congress people have reacted and changed around on
Speaker 1: the insurrection. Because my prediction is that in every Republican
Speaker 1: running is going to be promising pardons for the capital rioters.
Speaker 1: So I think a lot of them are looking at
Speaker 1: this like, well, I either get eight months and if
Speaker 1: I get more is going to around and I'll get
Speaker 1: freed as a you know, political prisoner. Damn. That's my prediction.
Speaker 1: So they're like, if I get it, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: like take my little vacation, you know, y'all put some
Speaker 1: money on my books. It'll be fine, take care of
Speaker 1: my kids. I see you in Yeah, I mean I'm
Speaker 1: sure it's yeah, if you win the ship's it's like,
Speaker 1: yeah to three years, I mean that's a vacation. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure a bunch of I'm sure some of
Speaker 1: them are worried. There's some people who are getting some
Speaker 1: like you know, some who will do some serious time.
Speaker 1: But it's not now what you not even what you
Speaker 1: saw for like the BLM protest last year. You know,
Speaker 1: you've got people looking at like a hunt and not
Speaker 1: what you see for like pipelines. You've got two people
Speaker 1: looking at a hundred and one years for like sabotaging
Speaker 1: pipeline equipment in a very mild way. So when we
Speaker 1: got eight years for a minor act of property destruction
Speaker 1: to stop eight year building of a pipeline, eight years
Speaker 1: and a million something like a million dollars in fines, um,
Speaker 1: I'll be surprised if any if not as certainly not
Speaker 1: many capital rioters get any kind of commensurate sentence because, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's it really is. Yeah, it really is. Uh.
Speaker 1: Something that you you taught me recently was like you know,
Speaker 1: of which I knew in some senses that this, this
Speaker 1: the insurrection was really like a culmination of a bunch
Speaker 1: of little ones. And I don't know why in my
Speaker 1: brain I didn't tie Jason Kessler and like the you know,
Speaker 1: in the Charlottesville thing into sort of the same almost
Speaker 1: like trajectory of of like incidences that kind of maybe
Speaker 1: culminated in that in my is this a good uh?
Speaker 1: Is that a good read on that? Like? Am I
Speaker 1: saying this wrong or is that no, no, no, I
Speaker 1: think yeah. So I'm wondering if you know of, uh,
Speaker 1: any other scenarios of past things where food's just completely
Speaker 1: got like slaps on their hands for there. Let me
Speaker 1: tell you about Skylar Journe again. And as I tell
Speaker 1: you about Skylar Journe again, I want you to I
Speaker 1: want you to look this type that name in s
Speaker 1: k y l O r j E R in I
Speaker 1: G A N and I hate that I know how
Speaker 1: to spell his name from memory. He's a area. You know,
Speaker 1: he's one of these people talk about like oh it's
Speaker 1: the Proud Boys, or is this or that he's one
Speaker 1: of these kind of like in the middle of all
Speaker 1: these groups. He's always there. He's kind of affiliated with
Speaker 1: all of them. I don't think that he has specific
Speaker 1: membership in one of them. For one more time. Skylark
Speaker 1: y l O r l r j Jurne again j J.
Speaker 1: That's why he's a powerful in cell energy. Look, I
Speaker 1: don't want to be like he powerful. And when I
Speaker 1: say powerful in cell energy, I mean he's like very
Speaker 1: obviously in like the videos most madly in love with
Speaker 1: this local white nationalist Hayley Adams, who has no interest
Speaker 1: in him, and he shows up at these protests with
Speaker 1: like knives, tactical gear that like never fits or is
Speaker 1: like anything like reasonable or competent, talking about how he's gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, it's time to start killing. It's time to
Speaker 1: like saying like fucking school shooters, ship like he's got
Speaker 1: like powerful in cell mash shooter energy. And sure enough,
Speaker 1: last year at a one of these stupid back the
Speaker 1: Blue protests that like twenty of them did, they were
Speaker 1: like leaving and a bunch of anti fascists were yelling
Speaker 1: at them, um, but not like you know, maybe chucking
Speaker 1: bottles at their car as they were leaving, and he
Speaker 1: fired a nine millimeter handgun into a crowd, um, and
Speaker 1: thankfully didn't fucking hit anybody, but everyone knew what was
Speaker 1: gonna happen. He gets charged and arrested for it, and
Speaker 1: he gets off without any jail time firing a gun
Speaker 1: into a crowd. Not a day, not no jail time.
Speaker 1: He's got some fucking probation. Um, he's definitelyna. Meanwhile, again
Speaker 1: there's people doing time for lighting dumpsters on fired um,
Speaker 1: although not the guy they talk about doing time for
Speaker 1: lighting dumpsters and fire because that was a plea bargain
Speaker 1: that included domestic abuse. But whatever. There are people who
Speaker 1: who got time for lighting like trash fires and ship um,
Speaker 1: but Skyler doesn't do any time because he's fucking Skylar,
Speaker 1: because he's because he's a right winger. He's a white
Speaker 1: right wing kid um and continues to show up at
Speaker 1: protests and like I don't know, keeps rolling the dice.
Speaker 1: It's all of these like school shooter dice with these motherfucker's. Um.
Speaker 1: There's another one, Tessa Tala Tozie, who's not a white
Speaker 1: guy but is on the right. Was was a big
Speaker 1: proud boy until he felt with the Proud boys. And
Speaker 1: it's just kind of like a prominent right wing brawler
Speaker 1: um gets into a lot of like beating people in
Speaker 1: the street, usually as part of like a gang of
Speaker 1: folks beating people in the street. He's the he's the
Speaker 1: dude who got shot in the ankle recently. Uh yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's so that fucking story is so weird. Um.
Speaker 1: So the guy who shot him, it's just more has
Speaker 1: come out about him and he's claiming that he got
Speaker 1: shot by a right winger at an earlier Olympia rally,
Speaker 1: like shot in the arm and the guy who shot him.
Speaker 1: There is a right winger who shot a guy and
Speaker 1: didn't get charged. Um because again the cops don't charge
Speaker 1: these people. Yeah yeah, but this get guy and this
Speaker 1: kid is not white either by the way. Um, so
Speaker 1: it's and was a claims a jester, which is a
Speaker 1: weird career for like an anarchist activist. He's he's a
Speaker 1: strange dude. Um, I don't know much about him, but
Speaker 1: he's he's going to get the book thrown at him,
Speaker 1: like he's already been arrested. He's got like assault with
Speaker 1: a deadly weapon. Um, you know. And it's just like this,
Speaker 1: you can see the another good case and like the
Speaker 1: kind of uh disproportionate nature. So like when there's a
Speaker 1: shooting last year, the one fatal shooting we had over
Speaker 1: this where um Jay Danielson gets shot dead outside of
Speaker 1: and again a parking garage in downtown Portland's by Michael
Speaker 1: Rhinol and the way that like we have video of
Speaker 1: the shooting, it's pretty clear what happened. Jay and this
Speaker 1: other guy he was with, who are both like well
Speaker 1: known right wing brawlers along history of assaulting. People were
Speaker 1: covered in weapons. They had handguns, they had batons, they
Speaker 1: had mace. Uh, there's rumors one of them had a knife.
Speaker 1: And we see on the footage them like running towards
Speaker 1: Mike with weapons in their hands like sticks and mace,
Speaker 1: and he shoots and kills one of them. Um, and
Speaker 1: then he runs, which legally isn't the thing you want
Speaker 1: to do. But Trump bragged later about like they they
Speaker 1: sent the U. S. Marshalls after him, hunted him down
Speaker 1: and gunned down in the street. Um, and Trump bragged like, well,
Speaker 1: we didn't want to arrest him, we just wanted to
Speaker 1: kill him, so we did, like he talked about that. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: the year before, um, a kid, Sean Keller Heer Armenio
Speaker 1: is the name he went by, who was an anti
Speaker 1: fascist protester, gets run down in the street, like killed
Speaker 1: by a fucking car. And it was very much as this,
Speaker 1: we know, a political murder. The police just have refused
Speaker 1: to investigate it, like they're just not looking into the
Speaker 1: ship at all and any meaningful capacity. He Intercept has
Speaker 1: done really good reporting on like the Portland Police's refusal
Speaker 1: to investigate this kid's murder. And so it is it
Speaker 1: doesn't always break down on racial lines because against some
Speaker 1: of the people who are you know, being uh discommensurately
Speaker 1: punished on the left are white and some of the
Speaker 1: people who are being whose crimes are being ignored on
Speaker 1: the or not. But it's it's all about kind of
Speaker 1: white supremacy and like kind of where you stand on
Speaker 1: on reinforcing that. And if you're if you're supporting those ideals,
Speaker 1: then you can, even if you're not white, to an extent,
Speaker 1: benefit from the laws uh willingness to ignore those kind
Speaker 1: of crimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think that
Speaker 1: what that the lesson they're all learning is that, yeah,
Speaker 1: if we work with these people, y'are not gonna do ship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like I can get away with the ship until I can't,
Speaker 1: you know, and like any red blooded American, that's what
Speaker 1: you're gonna do. I'm gonna get away with it until
Speaker 1: I can get away with it. Yep. Yeah. And it's
Speaker 1: it's that's the thing about fascists in general, is they
Speaker 1: take as much as you'll give them. It's the thing
Speaker 1: that punk's learned a long time ago, which is if
Speaker 1: you have like a fucking punk bar and some Nazi
Speaker 1: punks show up, you beat the piss out of them
Speaker 1: that night, because if they get the feeling, one of
Speaker 1: them can come in for a drink and not get hassled.
Speaker 1: He'll bring two friends the next time, and they'll bring
Speaker 1: two friends, and then it's a Nazi bar in a week.
Speaker 1: You see, this is why, this is why we need
Speaker 1: to do more cross cultural like punk, hip hop, gangster ship,
Speaker 1: because this is the exact rule in the same episode
Speaker 1: that shut then Up, You're gonna do ship episode that
Speaker 1: which I'm pretty sure if I asked you, you would
Speaker 1: know the same rules. Like a matter of fact, let's
Speaker 1: just test it, because I'm pretty sure you know. Let's
Speaker 1: just say those you're walking out of this punk bar
Speaker 1: by yourself full five Nazi dudes come around the corner,
Speaker 1: and you're like, all right, they're finn A. They're gonna
Speaker 1: jump me, and I'm probably gonna get mocked. So I
Speaker 1: believe that there are three cardinal rules when you know
Speaker 1: you're about to get jumped, and I bet you you're
Speaker 1: gonna get two out of three of these exactly the
Speaker 1: same as mine. So we're your three cardinal rules you
Speaker 1: know you're about to get jumped. Geez Um, it's probably
Speaker 1: been a while, but still protect your fucking head. Number one. UM,
Speaker 1: I don't know, swing first. Uh, if you know what's
Speaker 1: gonna fucking happen, you know, yeah, go for it and
Speaker 1: uh protect your head. Um, don't pull a fucking knife.
Speaker 1: Um no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're I mean you're
Speaker 1: pretty close because I was, Yeah, we what we say
Speaker 1: is this like my and and it's it's like almost
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's it's almost the same. It's like,
Speaker 1: first of all, yeah, protect my head, you know, don't
Speaker 1: let nobody get behind me, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: because then you're done, and like yes, and one and
Speaker 1: swing first and just go eight ship on one of them,
Speaker 1: Like I just need one of y'all, like like exactly
Speaker 1: one of these. Yes, I don't care mercy list, don't
Speaker 1: play fair, one of y'all knee to go home scarred
Speaker 1: for life. I'm gonna lose, you know, and then find
Speaker 1: my way out. I'm saying, But like, but one do
Speaker 1: y'all need to know? And I and my my My
Speaker 1: theory is like like you said, yea is like that's
Speaker 1: it is universal, like you just know that you have
Speaker 1: to do these things or it's going to happen again. Yeah. Yes,
Speaker 1: they're going to come get you again, you know, and
Speaker 1: because they learned you ain't gonna do ship yep, yep, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you have to you have to. It's the same
Speaker 1: thing like when you're well, no, I probably shouldn't tell
Speaker 1: that story, okay, no, no, Stitchen, Yeah yeah, but you
Speaker 1: know it's you know, it's again you that's the that's
Speaker 1: the hack from the the whole thing where like the
Speaker 1: overconfident like there's this there's this tendency like to talk
Speaker 1: about the Dunning Krueger effect, like everybody knows that now
Speaker 1: it's through the internet. You know, people are over and
Speaker 1: to just be like, well that's just idiots. Idiots are
Speaker 1: overconfident about their abilities, like no, no, no, no no, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's they may be wrong about their level of confidence.
Speaker 1: In fact, they generally are and it may be like
Speaker 1: silly in some ways, but it's a good strategy because
Speaker 1: when you're that kind of dumb, you win a lot
Speaker 1: of the time. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's definitely times when
Speaker 1: you're trying to like just because I feel like facts truth,
Speaker 1: well researched stuff. It takes a while to build your argument,
Speaker 1: and it's like you're time the time. It's especially like
Speaker 1: what I found even watching let's just say watching like
Speaker 1: we'll use Trump Trump's debates. It's like in his three minutes,
Speaker 1: the guy said seventy two absolutely false things, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, And I'm like, I don't know how
Speaker 1: to where do I even start? Like how do I
Speaker 1: But he's so confident about it. It's like I don't
Speaker 1: even know. I don't e Like I'm so demoralized even
Speaker 1: in my ability to try to answer you because he
Speaker 1: was so confident, said it's so fast, it's just truth
Speaker 1: takes a while, Like I have to go, okay, well
Speaker 1: let's go back to this, you know, and then that's boring.
Speaker 1: That's not good TV, that's not good conversational things. So
Speaker 1: it puts me in a position to where it's like, well,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm just like my only answer is like, God,
Speaker 1: you're a freaking idiot. I don't know what you say.
Speaker 1: Well prove me wrong. Like I hate that. I think
Speaker 1: of that, like that meme that goes around where like
Speaker 1: it's a person sitting at a table and it says
Speaker 1: some sort of outlandish thing and then it says proved
Speaker 1: me wrong on the bottom of it. Yeah, although there
Speaker 1: was one that was pretty funny which I saw yesterday,
Speaker 1: which said dim kids Deserved to Die proved me wrong.
Speaker 1: And it was Freddy Krueger, Jason Michael Myers. Right, So
Speaker 1: it was all the guys for like the eighties and
Speaker 1: nineties horror films like you Kids Deserves that proved me wrong.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, no, now you're right, bro. They I
Speaker 1: don't know what the hell they're doing. Why you keep
Speaker 1: going to this lake is beyond staving that lake, staying
Speaker 1: the lake. There's nothing that that lake for you. Nothing there.
Speaker 1: So moving forward, So in the spirit of like what
Speaker 1: we really want to do with politics with it can
Speaker 1: happen here Cool Zone, and even just the tone of
Speaker 1: like my last music and poetry projects, it's the idea
Speaker 1: of like, what's that better future? I feel like sometimes
Speaker 1: I'm I'm pushed into this like conundrum here, like here,
Speaker 1: here's a good example of it. When the whole movement
Speaker 1: of like arrest the cops that killed Brianna Taylor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know that, I understand understand it obviously, but you're
Speaker 1: asking me to appeal to the same system that killed
Speaker 1: her to hold her just you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, there's and and like here, here, here,
Speaker 1: listen to me, y'all. They ain't break a law, and
Speaker 1: that's the problem you're I'm saying, like, the problem is
Speaker 1: you appealing to a law that ain't there to protect us.
Speaker 1: So then what's our what are so do? I ask
Speaker 1: this babylon that I'm like, I also think needs to
Speaker 1: fall to hold accountable these weirdos that keep getting away
Speaker 1: with ship, which is why it keeps happening. So I'm like,
Speaker 1: what what what do we do? Robert? What do we do?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's sucked up because like like you
Speaker 1: look at um, what's that the fucker's name, the guy
Speaker 1: who killed George Floyd, that piece of ship. You look
Speaker 1: at him getting sentence to murder and going away, and
Speaker 1: um the guy that killed who now the guy who
Speaker 1: murdered George Floyd? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay. You look
Speaker 1: at him, and you look at you know the fact
Speaker 1: that he did he did get convicted of murder, and
Speaker 1: it's like it threw us a body. We appreciate it, yeah,
Speaker 1: you yeah, it's good that he's punished and it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not just good that he's punished because like, funk
Speaker 1: that dude. It's good that he's punished because like, maybe
Speaker 1: the next cop he's got his fucking knee on a
Speaker 1: black dude's neck will think twice um, and maybe it'll
Speaker 1: save a life. But it doesn't mean anything about the system.
Speaker 1: The system only convicted shown for a couple of reasons.
Speaker 1: Number one, it was just too far out of the
Speaker 1: fucking like that. It was too too much Like even
Speaker 1: Trump was like, well that's fucked up right, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't like like with Brianna Taylor, it's like,
Speaker 1: do I want those guys to get punished? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course I do. They fucking shot a woman to
Speaker 1: death in her own home for no reason. Yes, I
Speaker 1: would like for them to to suffer as a result
Speaker 1: of that. Um do is there Like it's this weird
Speaker 1: thing where it's like, I don't think it's bad to
Speaker 1: try to hurt those people, especially since it might mean
Speaker 1: other folks like them are less likely to hurt people
Speaker 1: in the future. I don't think it's going to really
Speaker 1: solve anything. As a rule, I don't think it's particularly
Speaker 1: likely to work, which it didn't in Brianna Taylor's kids.
Speaker 1: You know, the best we got out of that was
Speaker 1: at least your fucking boyfriend didn't get sentenced with anything,
Speaker 1: you know. Um, And you know it's this, it's this.
Speaker 1: It's not just this is not just a matter of
Speaker 1: like prosecuting cops who murder people. It's it's a matter
Speaker 1: of like it's a whole question about like electoralism, but
Speaker 1: engaging with the system at all? Is it ever worth
Speaker 1: it to engage with the system? Um? And I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't have an answer for you. I'm not gonna say,
Speaker 1: like I think there's an argument to be made for
Speaker 1: like voting, for trying to prosecute these people for as
Speaker 1: like harm reduction. Um, but it's a not a clear
Speaker 1: it's not an argument that I can say is right.
Speaker 1: It's just an argument, you know. Yeah, Because like I
Speaker 1: go back and forth every day myself on the map. Yes,
Speaker 1: me too. It's like there's the part of me that's
Speaker 1: like you're in the ocean, you gotta swim. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is the system we have, and you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So if it's the one we have, I
Speaker 1: think about like the George Floyd Act, that just got
Speaker 1: shut down, you know what I'm saying. So that might
Speaker 1: have done something. That might have done something. But I'm like,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, which one of us is surprised? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that shi got you know what I'm saying, Like that
Speaker 1: it didn't you know, Like it's like like at some
Speaker 1: point you start looking at your own psychosis of like
Speaker 1: why such an abusive relationship here? Man? Like why do
Speaker 1: I keep appealing to you? You know? But I'm but
Speaker 1: at the same time, like you said, I mean, right now,
Speaker 1: it's all we got, you know what I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: then my next thought is like, well, what if we
Speaker 1: on board the homies like us into this system? You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. But I'm like, it couldn't have been.
Speaker 1: We couldn't have been the first generation that thought of that,
Speaker 1: that's said you know, hey, well what if we elected
Speaker 1: our people and put a bit position you know. I
Speaker 1: mean it's like, I'm feeling this was supposed to end
Speaker 1: on a high note, but this is ending very bleak. Uh.
Speaker 1: But I would ask one more question I would ask
Speaker 1: is like, do you see any predictions moving forward as
Speaker 1: far as like the evolution of this of this of
Speaker 1: this movement? I know. I already know generally because we
Speaker 1: talked about it a trillion times, like where we think
Speaker 1: this is gonna go. But do you think we'll see
Speaker 1: another attempt on the capitol? He I don't know, because
Speaker 1: I think at this point the capital security isn't going
Speaker 1: to allow the exact same thing that happened. I think
Speaker 1: the next attempt on tempt on the capitol will probably
Speaker 1: be electoral and will probably be the result of like
Speaker 1: a bunch of state level Like at the state level,
Speaker 1: you can you've already seen like these kind of insurrectionist
Speaker 1: Republicans taking over local election offices right to try to
Speaker 1: make sure that they can if the votes go against
Speaker 1: their candidate next time, just ignore them. You know. That's
Speaker 1: the thing that's going to happen, and it's going to
Speaker 1: be And then and then that maybe when a very
Speaker 1: clearly elite like when what they do is very clearly
Speaker 1: illegal but is supported by the Supreme Court and supported
Speaker 1: at the state level by these state level institutions they've
Speaker 1: taken over, then these right wing militias and gangs may
Speaker 1: take to the streets to do violence against the lists
Speaker 1: of people they have. I think that's that's possible that's
Speaker 1: the thing I see is really the threat at the moment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been calling it the what bike energy um. And
Speaker 1: what I mean by that is like you got your
Speaker 1: new bike, ride down the street and some guy goes
Speaker 1: as cool bike, let me see it, and you're like,
Speaker 1: you want to let me just use it right quick,
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna do ship man, chill. And then they
Speaker 1: start riding your bike and they like thanks, and you're like, yo,
Speaker 1: can I get my bike back? And they're like what bike?
Speaker 1: So like your your bike's gone, you know what I mean. So,
Speaker 1: so it's gone, there's like what bike? And then buy
Speaker 1: your backpack? You know what I'm saying, Yeah what backpack?
Speaker 1: You're just like damn it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So to me, it's like I feel like that's the
Speaker 1: next evolution is the what bike energy. So when you
Speaker 1: go hey, look you know progressive candidate Hey just won
Speaker 1: their district, they're like what candidate? Yeah? Yeah, what can
Speaker 1: what candidate? One? What? Yeah? No, they didn't they ain't
Speaker 1: win ship. You're like, uh uh yeah they did. They did?
Speaker 1: They know they didn't. They ain't win ship. We ain't
Speaker 1: see it. I don't see them where they at and
Speaker 1: you're like, God, and it's just and it's like and
Speaker 1: and and in it's like, I reckon, that's gangster ship.
Speaker 1: Like I recognize it. I'm like, that's that's that's the
Speaker 1: route going. It's just and you got and if you
Speaker 1: got the like like you said, the confidence and the
Speaker 1: the lack of fear of consequence, what the hell you
Speaker 1: I mean, y'all ain't gonna do shit? Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's uh, that's I mean, that's what they're bringing to it.
Speaker 1: That's the energy they're bringing to it. And that's like
Speaker 1: they're taking the steps. Uh. The right answer is to say,
Speaker 1: like this is what and this is what downy um.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not like a hopeless situation because our
Speaker 1: option isn't just sit back and take it um. But
Speaker 1: but you know, there's there are points before we get
Speaker 1: to where the only option is function up. But fucking
Speaker 1: shut up. You know, has to you have to be
Speaker 1: willing to function. Has to be on the table. It
Speaker 1: has to be on the table, because if they know
Speaker 1: it's not on the table, they know you ain't gonna
Speaker 1: do ship there it is. Robert is ready to live
Speaker 1: among the gangs. By that answer, just like fucking sh it.
Speaker 1: Up has to be on the table. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: on the It's got to be on the table, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like you know, and if it's
Speaker 1: not you, you know, you can never get no new shoes,
Speaker 1: You can never get no new bike, no new backpack,
Speaker 1: no nothing, because the second you get it, it's not yours.
Speaker 1: No more. Up has to be on the table. When
Speaker 1: you spend time in in sketchy places, you come to
Speaker 1: learn how to determine whether or not someone is like dangerous,
Speaker 1: and any motherfucker can like hurt people or kill people
Speaker 1: if they have like a gun or a knife, because
Speaker 1: weapons are are are inherently are inherently potentially dangerous. But
Speaker 1: there's there are people who are dangerous and you can
Speaker 1: you can see it. And what it is, what what
Speaker 1: you can see is like you, violence for you is
Speaker 1: an option in the same way as like pulling a
Speaker 1: flashlight out of my pocket is for me. It's a
Speaker 1: tool and it wouldn't mean any more to you than
Speaker 1: pulling that fucking flashlight out of your pocket. It's on
Speaker 1: the table for you always and when you when you
Speaker 1: see that in people, you gotta take those people very
Speaker 1: fucking seriously, and yes you do, yes you do. You
Speaker 1: have to just know homie is dangerous. Be cool, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Like we're sitting here, we're enjoying
Speaker 1: a beer right now, you know. And so for me,
Speaker 1: like you know, growing up in between black and Latino neighborhoods,
Speaker 1: how that plays out is very different. I remember, Like
Speaker 1: sitting sitting with the Vatos is usually just that guy.
Speaker 1: Don't never talk louder than this, you don't never talk
Speaker 1: faster than this. And he's like, hey, bro, hey, hey man,
Speaker 1: you need to calm down. Yeah, Like when you get
Speaker 1: to that, you're like he finished, he finished, stab you,
Speaker 1: y'all said, chill because he's about to stab you and
Speaker 1: it's gonna be so fast that like, hey, bro, and
Speaker 1: I think you should relax. Man. Yeah you good. It'll
Speaker 1: be fast and it won't mean anymore to him than
Speaker 1: closing a dead bolt on the door, you know exactly. Yeah, yes, Rob,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, thank you. It's a long time
Speaker 1: coming for pulling up, dropping the knowledge, showing your uh,
Speaker 1: showing you got a little hood pass on you, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, and uh, and just dropping the
Speaker 1: science on us and I see it looks like you've
Speaker 1: got a little haircut, oh jeezy a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's looks good at getting to the
Speaker 1: shaggy stage. But yeah, I'm I'm out of the pandemic
Speaker 1: hair stage. Oh man, there's no way in the world
Speaker 1: my followers don't know who you are. Well, now, there's
Speaker 1: a way in the world they don't know who you are.
Speaker 1: It's it's possible. So shout out all your all your
Speaker 1: things where they could hear you, and you can find
Speaker 1: my podcast every day. It could happen here every week.
Speaker 1: There's Behind the Bastards And I have a book called
Speaker 1: After the Revolution you can find for free on a
Speaker 1: t r book dot com. So dope, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Shout out Sophie on mute right now. Uh like your
Speaker 1: season coming up. You know what I'm saying. It's about
Speaker 1: to be a good day. And uh, I appreciate you
Speaker 1: pulling up Robert were good. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for
Speaker 1: having hold me, Yes sir, awesome bam. Yeah, y'all, this
Speaker 1: mugg was recorded and edited by me Propaganda right here
Speaker 1: in East low'st Boil Heights, Los Angeles. Y'all can follow
Speaker 1: me at prop hip Hop on all the socials. You
Speaker 1: could follow the Hood Politics Pod itself at Hood Politics Pod,
Speaker 1: where we'll be trying to make takes on stuff that
Speaker 1: aren't really big enough for a whole episode, but definitely
Speaker 1: needs a little bit of clarity. His mug was scored, edited, mixed,
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Speaker 1: how to say his name. I'm glad he changed it
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