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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and Trumpy think tank America First Policy

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Speaker 1: Put Policy in quotes institute is seeking to allow election

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Speaker 1: officials to refuse to certify results.

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine why we have such a great show

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Speaker 2: for you today.

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Speaker 1: Congresswoman Mikey Cheryl stops by to talk about her move

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Speaker 1: to hold Supreme Court justices to.

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Speaker 2: Account for ethics.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to Media Matters CEO Angelo Arisone about

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Speaker 1: the rights new playbook to take down media outlets. But

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Speaker 1: first we have Atlantic columnist George Conway. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: Fast Politics. George Conway, Hello, so pretty exciting stuff. Did

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Speaker 1: you think that Donald Trump being a convicted felon, that

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Speaker 1: Republicans would just continue on the Trump train? Now, not

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Speaker 1: all Republicans, because we're seeing polling that shows that there's

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Speaker 1: definitely a section of Republicans who are affected by this.

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Speaker 1: But are you surprised with which the zeal the rest

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Speaker 1: of the party has continued on with him?

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Speaker 3: Not at all.

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Speaker 4: I didn't think that most of the face is going

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Speaker 4: to care. They've already decided that they're not going to

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Speaker 4: care about anything.

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Speaker 3: That he could go out and.

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Speaker 4: As Trump said a few years ago, shoot people on

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Speaker 4: Fifth Avenue, and they'd say, those people deserve being shot.

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Speaker 4: They're just refusing to admit they're wrong. They're refusing to

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Speaker 4: admit error. They are bound to him. It's something of

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Speaker 4: a cult.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: There's nothing you can do about those people. But that's

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Speaker 4: that for normal people. It's usually a bad thing when

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Speaker 4: a candidate for public office gets indicted and then convicted.

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Speaker 4: So I think obviously it's going to hurt him with

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Speaker 4: some people, and he needs every single vote. No, the

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Speaker 4: conviction politically is going to be overall harmful.

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Speaker 1: Sort of the Republican narrative that has formed that they

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Speaker 1: are pumping out to the mainstream media, and a pretty

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Speaker 1: rapid clip is that this has just made Trump stronger,

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Speaker 1: that he's raised two zillion dollars.

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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I will see if they're actually

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Speaker 4: telling the truth. I mean, these people have been known

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Speaker 4: sometimes doctor tell the truth.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you know that, Lolly, but that's

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Speaker 3: one thing.

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Speaker 4: And secondly, it's like what are they going to spend

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Speaker 4: it on? They're going to convince people that he didn't

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Speaker 4: get convicted of a crime if they got money out

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Speaker 4: of it to temporary spike and I don't I don't

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Speaker 4: know that's going.

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Speaker 3: To help them.

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Speaker 1: Do you think Republicans are sort of panicked or do

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Speaker 1: you think they genuinely believe what they're saying?

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Speaker 4: No, I think it's come I mean, I think some

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Speaker 4: of them believe what they're saying. I think some of

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Speaker 4: them don't. I think a lot of them are just

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Speaker 4: going to say whatever they're told to say, and a

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Speaker 4: lot a lot of them just going to say. You know,

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Speaker 4: they they're very good at just denial that this is

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Speaker 4: what they have become.

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Speaker 3: They've become.

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Speaker 4: They deny reality, They lie, They live for these lies,

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Speaker 4: and they just tell more of them. And when their

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Speaker 4: lies are shown to be lies, they come up with

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Speaker 4: and the life that they're going to tell is this

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Speaker 4: is good. Well, if it's so good, why are you

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Speaker 4: so unhappy?

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Speaker 3: They don't have an answer to that.

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Speaker 2: No, they don't.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 1: One of the people who has gotten very into Libs

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Speaker 1: have made him president again now is Scott Jennings on CNN.

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Speaker 2: You were on with him last week and he.

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Speaker 1: Did a lot of that obfuscating sort of like the

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Speaker 1: genteel Trumper.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, he does that. But he was just outright

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Speaker 4: lying about the case and saying that it wasn't clear

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Speaker 4: what Trump was charged withal and we're just complete nonsense.

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Speaker 4: They just spout these talking points out without regard to

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Speaker 4: whether they're true.

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Speaker 3: That's just what they do. And you notice that with

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Speaker 3: a lot.

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Speaker 4: Of these people who like to say, well, I'm not

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Speaker 4: really that supportive of Donald Trump. I don't I'm not

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Speaker 4: a Trumper, I'm not a hardcore Trumper, blah blah blah,

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Speaker 4: and then they just spout out the same talking points

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Speaker 4: because that's what they do. And I told you something

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Speaker 4: about how they feel about Trump or how embarrassed they

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Speaker 4: are the Trump is their standard bearers. They just said

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Speaker 4: they can't talk about him, they cannot defend him. So

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Speaker 4: they just say, well, I'm not really a big Trump supporter.

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Speaker 4: But and then they say something on the attack like oh,

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Speaker 4: but Biden is this, Kamala Harris is this? Oh oh,

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Speaker 4: this case is that, And it's like, okay, but dude,

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Speaker 4: the guy's a condicted criminal. He's got fifty odd other

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Speaker 4: counts he's got to deal with, including things where he's

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Speaker 4: dead to rights for stealing classified documents. They talk about

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Speaker 4: everything except him. They don't actually defend him because they

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Speaker 4: know they can't, so they lie about why he's in

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Speaker 4: the circumstances that he's in, and they go on the

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Speaker 4: attack and say, you know, this is really about something else,

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Speaker 4: a weaponization of politics, the weaponization of the criminal law, caravans,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is what they do.

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Speaker 1: When you think about this spit of defensiveness. One of

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Speaker 1: the things you once said to me, and I think

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Speaker 1: about it a lot, is like you just are going

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Speaker 1: to have to win and win and win, and then

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Speaker 1: eventually you'll have sort of destroyed this Trump Republican Party

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Speaker 1: and it'll become something else.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, I always adhere to that view. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: want these cases to proceed. I do think he should

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Speaker 4: and will and could spend the rest of his life

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Speaker 4: in prison at some point.

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Speaker 3: And I think he's going to lose the selection.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think it's you know, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: I think there's a small chance he could win it,

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Speaker 4: which would I think be a small chance it's.

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Speaker 3: Something very very bad.

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Speaker 4: But all that said, I mean, ultimately he's got to

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Speaker 4: be beat at the ballot box. I've always felt that way.

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Speaker 4: I've always said that that, and I've always said that

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Speaker 4: he will be beaten at the ballot box. I just

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Speaker 4: think it's important that the advantage that he currently has

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Speaker 4: is going to be eradicated soon. The advantage that he

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Speaker 4: currently has is he's been off the radar screen pretty

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Speaker 4: much for the last several years. And this trial actually

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Speaker 4: add to an extent I didn't quite fully appreciate until

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Speaker 4: it was going on. This trial actually kept off the

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Speaker 4: radar screen in some ways. It kept people not from

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Speaker 4: focusing on the crazy things.

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Speaker 3: That he said, as it does, and.

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Speaker 4: It became about the trial moment of the day and

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Speaker 4: whether or not the prosecution was fair and this and

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Speaker 4: all that. He was up in Wildwood, New Jersey talking about,

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Speaker 4: you know, how good a person Hannibal lecture was right, right,

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Speaker 4: So he's not going to get that mass anymore.

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Speaker 1: I mean that press conference after the guilty conviction was

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Speaker 1: just an unfocused mass.

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Speaker 4: No, he is an unfocused mess. He's going to get worse,

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Speaker 4: and the people they need to see this, Okay, this

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Speaker 4: isn't you know. There's been a lot of criticism of

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Speaker 4: the media, just the put putting him on in twenty

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Speaker 4: sixteen unfiltered and so on and so forth. Well, we

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Speaker 4: actually need some of that because if you actually watch

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Speaker 4: him and listen to him, he's not Obviously, you can't

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Speaker 4: put him on without saying, Okay, he lied about this thing,

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Speaker 4: he lied about that thing, lied about the next thing.

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Speaker 4: But you can show him saying absolutely crazy things that

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Speaker 4: are demonstrably untrue, like I never said locker up, shutting me.

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Speaker 4: Even his own people know that he said lock him up.

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Speaker 3: They liked it. You know, he's a pathological liar. The's

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Speaker 3: a lot of different.

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Speaker 4: Things that are not good. The more people see of him,

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Speaker 4: I think the better. It reminds me of four years

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Speaker 4: ago when he was holding those atrocious coronavirus press gatherings

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Speaker 4: at like four o'clock or five o'clock every day and

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Speaker 4: the White House actually had to pull them. The more

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Speaker 4: the American people see of him, the more the Trump

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Speaker 4: people are going to have to figure out how to

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Speaker 4: run a campaign without him. And that's what happened in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty. And he's going to be absolutely appalling at

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Speaker 4: the debate. He's crazier than ever before.

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Speaker 3: And I think the way that the Biden campaign.

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Speaker 4: Can take advantage of that is to continue to needle

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Speaker 4: him leading up to that debate, and for Biden to

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Speaker 4: needle him really that debate. You know, I think the

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Speaker 4: American people just need to see the crazy again, and

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's going to take that much.

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Speaker 3: I think they're going to.

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Speaker 4: See more of it now that the trial is over.

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Speaker 4: The trial actually that protected him by giving people something

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Speaker 4: else to talk about other than how crazy he was.

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Speaker 4: So there's a question of, oh, we did this witness

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Speaker 4: say that, Oh is this witness going to testify to that,

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Speaker 4: Oh are the charges there?

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Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.

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Speaker 4: You know, he's got to actually talk to the American

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Speaker 4: people now, and he is more incoherent than ever and

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Speaker 4: he's crazy whatever, And I think that.

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Speaker 3: That's going to make the big difference.

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Speaker 4: And as far as you know the future of Republicanism,

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, as I've said to you many times,

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Speaker 4: it's just it has to be.

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Speaker 3: Beaten and it will be beaten.

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Speaker 4: And what's going to happen this time around is there's

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Speaker 4: really not going to be much of a Republican party

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Speaker 4: left Trump music selections and you have you know that

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Speaker 4: the party is on multiple levels, that there's the state

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Speaker 4: level it's falling apart at the various state organization levels

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Speaker 4: in Michigan, for example, but basically at each other's throats,

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Speaker 4: the relative normans and the psychos, and the same as

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Speaker 4: in Arizona.

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Speaker 3: It's happening all around the country.

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Speaker 4: These state organizations are foundering because they are being taken

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Speaker 4: over by.

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Speaker 3: The lowest extreme and and I don't mean extreme in.

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Speaker 4: Some ideological sense that sort of gives them a little

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Speaker 4: too much credit to they actually believe in something which

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Speaker 4: is nihilistic at the national level, is basically systematically destroying

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Speaker 4: a national party. And the way he's doing that is

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Speaker 4: he's basically taking it, moved it to Palm Beach, and

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Speaker 4: he's merged it with his campaign. And we all know

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Speaker 4: what happens when campaigns and bring campaigns and particularly losing ones.

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Speaker 3: Or if you have a winning campaign, then.

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Speaker 4: Maybe you could create a political organization like you know,

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Speaker 4: Organizing for America.

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Speaker 2: But even Obama had problems doing that.

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Speaker 4: Actually, even at Obama, even Organizable for America had problems

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Speaker 4: like that. Well, what happens to political campaign basically is

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Speaker 4: everybody goes their separate ways.

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Speaker 3: It disappears.

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Speaker 4: So if you merge a national political party structure personally,

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Speaker 4: you move it from Washington to Florida, then you merge

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Speaker 4: it with a temporary structure that a campaign is a

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Speaker 4: pop up store based very expensive one, but it's a

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Speaker 4: pop up store. And then what happens on November sixth

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Speaker 4: after they lose because the way there's can be no

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Speaker 4: functional Republican Party by the end of next year, Donald

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Speaker 4: Trump loses its selection. You know, it's going to be

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Speaker 4: very important what happens next. Among sensible people and the

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Speaker 4: right and the center who don't want to be Democrats,

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Speaker 4: this is their chance.

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Speaker 3: To actually create something in value.

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Speaker 4: Whether it's a can function without sort of the crazies,

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Speaker 4: because the crazies.

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Speaker 3: They're just too many of them out there now. Whether

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Speaker 3: we can have.

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Speaker 4: A functional conservative, center right party, I don't think that's

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Speaker 4: an open question, but it's not going to be the

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Speaker 4: Republican Party. They're just not going to be a functional

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Speaker 4: Republican party come next year.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that Trump will be able to sort

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Speaker 1: of woo back these big donors. We've certainly seen some

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Speaker 1: of them come back. And also what do you think

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Speaker 1: is going on there, like when people who are theoretically

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Speaker 1: known as you know, I'm thinking of all those sort

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Speaker 1: of Steve Schwartzman types like make it make sense the

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Speaker 1: a couple.

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Speaker 4: Of things that are going to on their's one those

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Speaker 4: people are they don't understand politics that well. Secondly, all

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Speaker 4: they care about is, you know, taxes and regulation, and

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Speaker 4: they just convinced themselves that no.

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Speaker 3: Matter what, Donald Trump is better.

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Speaker 4: Than the alternative, which isn't really true for reasons I

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Speaker 4: could separately get into.

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Speaker 3: And third is they're afraid he's going to win and

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Speaker 3: they don't want to be on his bad side. That's

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Speaker 3: a very important one.

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Speaker 4: And then to go back to the second point, you know,

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Speaker 4: they think that somehow they're going to be better off

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Speaker 4: under a Trump administration than under a Biden administration. They're

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Speaker 4: just failing to consider the effect of the political system

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Speaker 4: and the effect of Trump on the political system, and

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Speaker 4: how that will in turn impact economic because I think

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Speaker 4: that if you have I mean the reason why I

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Speaker 4: do think they're not wrong in many ways we're overregulated, not.

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Speaker 3: We're underregulated in some ways. That we're overregulated in many ways.

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Speaker 4: And I generally think lower taxes are better than higher taxes,

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Speaker 4: except when you're running among these nephysites.

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Speaker 3: But let's set that aside.

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Speaker 4: If Donald's is elected, we're going to have a political

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Speaker 4: system petering on the edge of complete and utter chaos

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Speaker 4: because this country is going to become, i think, pretty

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Speaker 4: much ungovernable. And that's a fundamental reason why the American

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Speaker 4: economy is the shortness of the world. Is that because

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Speaker 4: you know, for all its faults, we have a stable

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Speaker 4: political system.

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Speaker 3: We're not going to have a.

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Speaker 4: Stable political system if he's elected, and we're going to

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Speaker 4: see human and financial capital flight the likes of which

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Speaker 4: we have not seen in this country and ever. So

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Speaker 4: that's why I think these people are being very, very

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Speaker 4: very shortsighted. But I also do think, you know, they

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Speaker 4: don't understand that, they don't understand any of this. They

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Speaker 4: just look at things very very narrowly, and they don't

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Speaker 4: look at history, and they don't look at the second

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Speaker 4: order results, even though that that's what they would look

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Speaker 4: at if they were running making a business decision, an

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Speaker 4: actual business decisions. And I also think that they're just

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Speaker 4: you know, there is a degree to which these people

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Speaker 4: are terrified of Trump. They don't want to be singled out.

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Speaker 4: Is the people who are asked to him money and

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Speaker 4: then did not and men be preceded enemies of Trump

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Speaker 4: because Trump will seek for men. There are a bunch

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Speaker 4: of different things going on there.

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Speaker 2: George Conway, thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Spring us here.

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Speaker 1: And I bet you are trying to look fashionable, So

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Speaker 1: why not pick up some fashionable all new Fast Politics merchandise.

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Speaker 1: We just opened a news store with all new designs

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Speaker 1: bags to grab some head to fastpolitics dot com. Congresswoman

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Speaker 1: Mikey Cheryl represents New Jersey's eleventh congressional district. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, congress Woman.

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Speaker 5: Cheryl, Well, thank you so much. It's great to be back.

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Speaker 1: It's going to get me too upset to even ask

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Speaker 1: the question, but needless to say, Justice Thomas we Knew

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Speaker 1: had some conflicts in his home life, mainly his wife's

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Speaker 1: involvement in Stop the Steal.

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Speaker 2: And then now we learn.

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Speaker 1: That Justice Alito, it's basically the real housewives of the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court. Talk to me about your theory the case.

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Speaker 5: Well, the case is that here we have Supreme Court

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Speaker 5: justices acting incredibly unethically, and it's so offensive to me

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Speaker 5: as an almost lifetime public Sermont and It's so many

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Speaker 5: of the jobs I've held, whether it was in the

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Speaker 5: military or for the Department of Justice, at the US

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Speaker 5: Attorney's Office, we were always held to a standard of

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Speaker 5: not just ensuring we weren't committee acts of impropriety. But

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Speaker 5: it wasn't just impropriety, it was the appearance of impropriety.

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Speaker 5: Because that's the high standard you need to hold yourself

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Speaker 5: to as an elected official or as a public servant,

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Speaker 5: because you are representing to the public the institution you serve,

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Speaker 5: and they need to know that you are doing so

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Speaker 5: faithfully and that you are doing so in a way

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Speaker 5: that is best serving the public, not your own personal

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Speaker 5: and self interest. And you look at the justices, you

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Speaker 5: look at Alito, you look at Thomas, and they are

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Speaker 5: doing anything but I mean this RV and the money

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Speaker 5: and the flights for Alito and just you know, the payouts.

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Speaker 5: Really and then you see, as you mentioned Justice Thomas's wife,

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Speaker 5: and then you saw these flags at both of Alito's house,

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Speaker 5: one the stop feel the Christian white Nationalist flag. I mean,

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Speaker 5: these are people that are supposed to decide cases without bias,

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Speaker 5: and it didn't occur to Justice Alito, for example, that

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Speaker 5: that would be seen as incredibly biased. It's really mind boggling.

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Speaker 5: And so what this legislation does is to first of all,

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Speaker 5: give people some ethical training, which they seem to be

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Speaker 5: in dire need of, and to explain to some of

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Speaker 5: our justices what it means to serve in that office

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Speaker 5: and what the public expects from them.

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Speaker 2: There is right.

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Speaker 1: Now no formal binding ethics code for the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 2: They sort of crafted one ad hoc.

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Speaker 1: It's not like if you work for a Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: justice when there's a real ethics code.

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Speaker 5: They're sort of self policing at this point, which is

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Speaker 5: going about as well as one might suspect. And so

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Speaker 5: that's why this legislation also has an independent investigative unit

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Speaker 5: that files a report a standard that again most of

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Speaker 5: us are happy to be held to. That is what

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Speaker 5: we are trying to accomplish here, to really help restore

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Speaker 5: faith in our Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: Right, and that makes sense. So how would you do

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Speaker 1: that and how would this work? And also I'm glad

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Speaker 1: you're trying anything.

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Speaker 3: You can.

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much because you know, I think it's

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Speaker 5: so important that we engage on this. You know, we've

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Speaker 5: seen some really upsetting outcomes. In the Court that seems

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Speaker 5: to have become very partisan, very political, very results oriented,

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Speaker 5: and so over time you've seen decisions that fel wildly

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Speaker 5: out of step with a transparent democracy and with the

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Speaker 5: views of the American people. And by then I'm talking

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Speaker 5: about the Citizens United decision, the DC versus Heller decision,

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Speaker 5: and the way that the Court has almost worked in

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Speaker 5: every way to make it impossible to do even some

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Speaker 5: of the minimal work of gun safety as we see

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Speaker 5: our children slaughtered across the nation. And I think the

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Speaker 5: one that we have seen the most evidence of being

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Speaker 5: completely out of step with the American people is certainly

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Speaker 5: the overturning of Row. When we sub Donald Trump building

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Speaker 5: a court with the express intent of overturning Row. And

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Speaker 5: now we've seen in the reddest states in the nation

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Speaker 5: this pushback against these terraconian laws. That shows why it's

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Speaker 5: so needed. I think that we have a court that's

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Speaker 5: held to higher ethical standards, and that the public understands

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Speaker 5: better how the court understands and the justices understand their

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Speaker 5: own responsibilities to the public right.

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Speaker 1: And also the Supreme Court is radically remaking the kind

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Speaker 1: in all different ways. And they have two abortion cases

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Speaker 1: on the docket that are coming out this month. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not like they aren't just swinging for

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Speaker 1: the fences, right. A lot of the cases they're taking,

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Speaker 1: you know, are trying to really dismantle the administrative state.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I would call them really radical. To see, for example,

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Speaker 5: the two abortion cases we're seeing before the court, it

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Speaker 5: just gives credence to what I've seen in this constant

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Speaker 5: attack on women's freedoms and women's health, the constant attack

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Speaker 5: on reproductive freedom and the wearable race to the bottom

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Speaker 5: in some of the states that have implemented draconian abortion bands.

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Speaker 5: And now you see these attempts at doing so nationwide.

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Speaker 5: So this myth of press Stone case and the discussion

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Speaker 5: in the remarks there and how Alito's brought up for

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Speaker 5: example Comstock, this is all the Heritage Foundation playbook for

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Speaker 5: implementing a nationwide abortion ban. And we've got to act now.

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Speaker 5: Example with Amtala, the Amtala case, the Emergency Medical Treatment

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Speaker 5: and Labor Act, this is a case where in putting

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Speaker 5: out regulations based on INTALA, the administration has said, you

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Speaker 5: can provide an abortion for the health of the mother

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Speaker 5: if you have a woman coming to your emergency room

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Speaker 5: who's suffering from a miscarriage and hemorrhaging. You can provide

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Speaker 5: care for that woman, which often involves an abortion of

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Speaker 5: the dead fetus so that she does not get a

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Speaker 5: horrible infection and can have children again. And if you

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Speaker 5: think I'm being a little dramatic about this, we are

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Speaker 5: seeing case after case after case of is like Texas,

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Speaker 5: of women who have suffered just this, and we have

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Speaker 5: Idaho on the other side of this, state of Idaho

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Speaker 5: saying no, it's only in the death of the mother.

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Speaker 5: It's only if a woman is dying that you can

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Speaker 5: provide an abortion. So let's imagine a doctor put in

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Speaker 5: the situation knowing that that person will go to jail. Well,

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Speaker 5: they're not making the decision, which is why we've seen

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Speaker 5: women being medevacked out of Idaho at an alarming rate.

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Speaker 5: Imagine you're hemorrhaging and you're being metevacked because a doctor

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Speaker 5: refuses to make a decision on your care in your

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Speaker 5: own emergency room. So this is what we're fighting against

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Speaker 5: in these court cases. And this is how far out

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Speaker 5: of step this court is with the American public.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're going to push back on any kind of

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Speaker 1: ethics standard. But theoretically, say they were saying, Republicans, how would.

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Speaker 2: You pass this? How could you do this?

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Speaker 1: I mean again, you have to fight, because the more

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Speaker 1: you fight, the more you move the Oberton window towards

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Speaker 1: actual self policing and real accountability for the judiciary, which

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Speaker 1: has to exist. But I'm just curious, like, in an

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Speaker 1: ideal world where Republicans were normal and they didn't think

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Speaker 1: of the Supreme Court as a completely partisan exercise, how

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Speaker 1: would you create this bill and get a past.

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Speaker 5: In an ideal world where Republicans were normal, I would

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Speaker 5: have found a Republican co sponsor of this piece of legislation.

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Speaker 5: We would have gotten other members on both sides of

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Speaker 5: the Aisle to co sponsor it, and then we would

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Speaker 5: have gotten it asked on suspension because in an ideal world,

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Speaker 5: most people would understand that this is completely egregious conduct

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Speaker 5: by our Supreme Corport that is unacceptable. And I say

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Speaker 5: suspension because you don't even need a rule, but you

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Speaker 5: do need tons of votes for it. So we would

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Speaker 5: just get tons of votes on both sides of the

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Speaker 5: pass it over to the Senate. They would see that mandate,

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Speaker 5: they would pass and send it to the President. I mean,

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Speaker 5: that would be ideally what we've seen. But now when

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Speaker 5: we're in a world where as long as you are

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Speaker 5: going to be a vote to take away rights from women,

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Speaker 5: as long as you are going to do everything you

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Speaker 5: can to implement a nationwide abortion ban in our Supreme Court,

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Speaker 5: then no Republican is going to hold you accountable for

443
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 5: much of anything else, as far as I can tell exactly.

444
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,679
Speaker 1: I was happy to see the Senate is talking about hearings,

445
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,360
Speaker 1: and I know Sheldon white House is anxious to get

446
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: some hearings going, and hopefully you'll have a partner in

447
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: Dick Durbin. Can you talk to us about the contraception Amendment,

448
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: which is another idea that's both happening in the Senate

449
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 1: and in the Congress at the same time, and you're working.

450
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 5: On There's a lot of stuff that we're working on

451
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 5: right now related to the courts, related to the ethics

452
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 5: of the court, but also related to a lot of

453
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 5: these abortion laws. That it's not just coming from the

454
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 5: Court where they're trying to implement these nationwide abortion mans

455
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 5: but certainly coming from a lot of legislators. The area

456
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 5: that I've been focused on most recently is the National

457
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 5: Defense Authorization Act. Because when we see these attacks on

458
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 5: women across the country. I'm hearing from women in New Jersey,

459
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 5: for example, Look, I'm not I'm pregnant. I'm not going

460
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 5: to go to my headquarters in Texas while I'm pregnant,

461
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 5: or I'm hearing from people in blue states. I'm in

462
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 5: law school and I'm not going to take jobs in

463
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 5: certain cities because I might start my family in the

464
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 5: next several years and I don't want to have horrible healthcare,

465
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 5: reproductive healthcare. So I think that's horrible that here, as

466
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 5: a woman in the United States of America, you can

467
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 5: only live in certain places and expect to get decent

468
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 5: reproductive healthcare and dangering your life if you go to

469
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 5: certain cities. That's horrible. But even worse to me is

470
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 5: the plight of many of our military women who actually

471
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 5: don't even have that option. Because when the military says,

472
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 5: you know, we need you to go to flight school

473
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 5: in Pensacola, Florida, as I did, or we need you

474
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 5: to go to flight school in Corpus Christi, Texas as

475
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 5: I did, you don't get a choice. And we have

476
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 5: over one hundred and forty thousand troops station in Texas.

477
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 5: They have their families with them who are getting medical

478
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 5: care in that area, many of whom may have children

479
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 5: on the base or in the area, and Texas ranks

480
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 5: forty ninth in the nation right now with over one

481
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 5: hundred and forty thousand troops station, they're forty ninth in

482
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 5: the nation. As far as reproductive healthcare, a lot of

483
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 5: the legislation I'll be introducing next week for the Defense

484
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,919
Speaker 5: Act is trying to, for example, strip some of the

485
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 5: language in Title ten, which governs our bases about not

486
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 5: being able to provide abortion care on our basis, to

487
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 5: provide education to both the doctors who change bases about

488
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 5: what the landscape is for reproductive healthcare in that state

489
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 5: and what is different from the state law and what

490
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 5: you can provide on base and give that same education

491
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 5: to women. Also putting Amtala type language into Title ten.

492
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 5: If I can't strip out some of the other bad

493
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 5: what I would call like Hidak type language, which is

494
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 5: entitled I can't strip that out, getting Atala language in

495
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 5: so that it's not just life of the mother, because

496
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 5: right now you can only provide an abortion on a base.

497
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 5: If it's the life of the mother, or rape or incest,

498
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 5: so we need at least the health of the mother

499
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 5: in there so we can better protect service women and

500
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 5: give them basic care. So we have this whole kind

501
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 5: of platform of abortion legislation that we need to introduce

502
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 5: to protect service women across the country. But you know,

503
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 5: with the Republican majority in the House, much of this

504
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 5: is I think going to be on the backs of

505
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 5: my Senate colleagues to carry it. So while I'm pushing

506
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 5: this legislation now so that whatever the Supreme Court comes

507
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 5: out with with respect to this and tall upcase or

508
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 5: the Mythipreston FDA case, we're writing legislation now to meet that.

509
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 5: And we'll be working closely with our colleagues in the

510
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 5: Senate so that we can provide some real leadership here

511
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 5: on the way forward, because we are seeing a tax

512
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 5: on reproductive healthcare and we have got to do more

513
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 5: to fight back. I mean, this is really unacceptable, Molly.

514
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 5: I don't know how you felt that when Roe was overturned.

515
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 5: I felt awful. But then when people started saying next,

516
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 5: they're coming after IVF, Next, they're coming after contraception, I thought,

517
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 5: no way, no way. I mean, my whole life is

518
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 5: built on the ability to choose one and how to

519
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 5: have my family. My grandmother had eight kids. I would

520
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 5: not be in Congress I had eight kids, right, I mean,

521
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 5: so threatening, the whole thing, And yet that's where we

522
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 5: are just two years later. We are not doing enough

523
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 5: in this space.

524
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: What I've been really shocked by is the level of

525
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: denial that even normal people have greeted this with. So

526
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us.

527
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, congresswoman.

528
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 5: It is always great talking to you guys. And shout

529
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 5: out to Jesse from Montclair. Thank you.

530
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: Angelo Karasone is the CEO of Media Matters. Welcome back, Angelo,

531
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me give us a little fill in

532
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: since we last talked to you. Did the bad guys win?

533
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: I feel like the bad guys won.

534
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 6: With context? And that's a big question.

535
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: They came after you talk us through what happened at

536
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: Media Matters. And you are the head of Media Matters.

537
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,239
Speaker 1: Just for those who are a little out of you know,

538
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: read in. Media Matters is a wildly successful media monitoring organization.

539
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 2: You guys watch Fox News so we don't have to.

540
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, and we do a lot of you know, obviously

541
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 7: a ton of research and tracking, and we do a

542
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 7: lot of investigative reporting, and that's you know, a big

543
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 7: part of what we are designed to do is to

544
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 7: sort of unwind the damage that the right wing echo

545
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 7: chamber has done since like the nineties, right, And so

546
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 7: you know, we're about twenty years old now, and we're

547
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 7: in a particularly unique moment because everything is sort of

548
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 7: up in the air in the right wing medium. And yeah,

549
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 7: and obviously we know we made a lot of big

550
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 7: enemies over the years, gone back and Tuber Carlson and

551
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 7: Bill O'Reilly and the Murdocks and now so yeah, I

552
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 7: mean basically, the short of it is that obviously everybody

553
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 7: knows that X has increased. It's the extremism. You know,

554
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 7: they've loosened the rules. The anti Semitism obviously was on

555
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 7: the rise on the platform. Advertisers for various reasons, had

556
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 7: left the platform when Elon must took over and continued

557
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 7: to leave the platform last summer, they you know, X

558
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 7: came out and said, hey, we are releasing some new

559
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 7: tools for advertisers. Your ads are never going to appear

560
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 7: alongside this kind of extremist content.

561
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 6: You don't have to worry. You're never going to be embarrassed.

562
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 7: And one of our you know, because we do research

563
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 7: and investigative reporting, one of the things that happened is

564
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 7: that we started publishing content showing that in fact, whatever

565
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 7: system X was promising was working wasn't operating as it

566
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 7: says it was, and in fact, adds for pro Hitler

567
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 7: accounts and Nazi content was appearing alongside major advertisers and

568
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 7: you know, and the subtreameous content. So that's basically what happened,

569
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 7: is that we started to sort of chip away at

570
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 7: this notion that they were improving the platform, and that

571
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 7: also happletical inside of the same week that Musk had

572
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 7: endorsed that what sort of supremacist great replacement theory, right,

573
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 7: and a bunch of advertisers left in that time period,

574
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 7: and he threatened to sue us and then followed through

575
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 7: on it. And part of the reason he followed through

576
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 7: on it, looks like is because as soon as he

577
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 7: threatened to sue us, everyone came out of the woodwork.

578
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 6: Glenn Beck and Tucker Crosson and Megan Kelly.

579
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 7: Laura Logan, I mean, anyone that we've held accountable of

580
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 7: the years, the guy that runs Rumble, which is an

581
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 7: increasing sort of place of right wing misinformation. They all

582
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 7: came out and said, the best thing you can do

583
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 7: is destroy Media Matters. And so what he did was

584
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 7: file lawsuit against us.

585
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: And he's always a person who wants to make other

586
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: right wing people happy.

587
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: That's kind of his thing, of course.

588
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 7: I mean that's part of this read his his own

589
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 7: red Pillow journey, right, is that he's actually a pretty

590
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 7: vivid example of how some of the feedback loops online

591
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 7: can radicalize not just.

592
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 6: People, but in particular young people.

593
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 7: It says a lot about the way his mind works

594
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 7: that you know, he's compared more to say, a person

595
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 7: in puberty than like, you know, fully formed adult. But

596
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 7: basically what he did is he suit us in the

597
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 7: North District of Texas. So you know, Media Matters is

598
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 7: a DC based organization Twitter where now x is a

599
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 7: Nevada based corporation that operates in California.

600
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 6: But he's students in the North District of.

601
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: Texas because jurisdiction shopping and is this the Matthew Cosmaric District.

602
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 6: No, but it's similar.

603
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 7: It has similar sets of sort of judges and in particular,

604
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 7: it's one of the few places where there aren't slap protections,

605
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 7: which are those like strategic lawsuits that if you file,

606
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 7: you get you know, you can get damages if you

607
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 7: sort of engage in one of these types of you know,

608
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 7: litigation design to just bury people. It's one of the

609
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 7: few places that doesn't sort of protect against that. And so,

610
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 7: but he didn't just stop there. What he did is

611
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 7: then he sued us in Ireland and then threatened to

612
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 7: us in some other places. And in the core of

613
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 7: doing this, Steven Miller, former Trumpe advisor, sort of popped

614
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 7: up and said, hey, you shouldn't just stop there, you

615
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 7: should make it and encourage Republican state attorney generals to

616
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 7: launch investigations into medium matters. And that's what he did.

617
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 7: He then sort of pressured, he started publicly pressuring state

618
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 7: ag is to do it. Ken Paxton and the Texas

619
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 7: Attorney General and Andrew Valley, the Missouri Attorney General, each

620
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 7: launched their own investigations. And what we did, which I

621
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 7: think is really significant and I'm pretty proud of it,

622
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 7: is that one of the ways these things play out

623
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 7: is that as state ag launches an investigation, you sort

624
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 7: of negotiate how much information you're going to give. Eventually,

625
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 7: if they're not happy, they go to their own state

626
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 7: court and they get the court to enforce a ruling

627
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 7: against you to sort of hand over even more information.

628
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 7: And what they were looking for was all types of

629
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 7: things about our sources, how we do our work, our

630
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 7: funding and donor information, which Musk has promised to sort

631
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 7: of retaliate against all. Obviously it's all designed to sort

632
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 7: of destroy us. Instead of waiting for that, we sued

633
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 7: Ken Paxton first, and we got a ruling against him

634
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 7: in DC Court, which is a significant ruling because it's

635
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 7: sort of a new this is sort of new tactics

636
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 7: that the right wing is deploying, and we sort of

637
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 7: launched sort of a counter offensive, which was to say, wait,

638
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 7: you can't deploy these new tactics. Here's here's why federal

639
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 7: courts should intervene in these types of investigations, because they're

640
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 7: very clearly intended to stightful reporting. So we won that,

641
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 7: so we got an injunction against Ken Paxton. We're currently

642
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 7: dealing with Andrew Bailey in Missouri and I think I

643
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 7: think we will prevail there as well. But where we

644
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 7: are fighting that out in federal court. He sued us

645
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 7: in his own state court and said, hey, I don't

646
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 7: have to file the rules here because.

647
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 6: Media Matters is going to break the laws. So I'm

648
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 6: going to skip.

649
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 7: The couple steps in the process so that they can't

650
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 7: run to federal court and get a federal judge to

651
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 7: prevent me from doing this. That argument hasn't fully played

652
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 7: out the way that he had hoped so, but it's

653
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 7: just it hasn't taken a little bit of time to

654
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 7: sort of sort that out. So in terms of the

655
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 7: bad guys winning there, I don't think they won there.

656
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 7: They obviously cost us a bunch of money. I know

657
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 7: we have to fight this out, but in the ex litigation,

658
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 7: you know, part of the way these complex litigations play

659
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 7: out is they cost to fortune, you know, especially if

660
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 7: you are designed if you're not hoping to win money

661
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 7: from it, which obviously these not. If you're just hoping

662
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 7: to cause maximum damage to the target, what you basically

663
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 7: do is you, you know, you slow roll the process.

664
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 7: You fight about every little thing, typically things that lawyers

665
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 7: would sort out out of court, you sort of fight

666
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 7: about them. You force briefings, you force judges to have

667
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 7: to weigh in on them. All that stuff costs money.

668
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 7: That is the strategy is to bleed us try and

669
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 7: I think, you know, the one thing that I will

670
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 7: say about Medium matters is what we do is relatively unique,

671
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 7: and we make the worst enemies and over time, I

672
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 7: think what we have to think about is, because this

673
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 7: is going to be a sustained fight, how do we

674
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 7: make sure that our twentieth year is not where we end?

675
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 7: And that means that we sort of gear up for

676
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 7: what's going to be a very long halve fight. He

677
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 7: is going to incinerate cash to destroy us, and we

678
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 7: have to be sort of mindful of that and Gerd

679
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 7: and so one of the effects is that, you know,

680
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 7: we started to reorganize our step.

681
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 6: We laid off of about a dozen people about.

682
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 7: Two weeks ago, which is really sad, and a lot

683
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 7: of that is thinking about, okay, how do we make

684
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 7: ourselves sustainable for the long call? And what I'll just

685
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 7: wrap on saying here it's not entirely self interested. It's

686
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 7: the truth is that it isn't just that he's suing us.

687
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 7: It isn't just that the ages are doing it. The

688
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 7: part that's the So what aside from the try to

689
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 7: take out a very effective opponent, is that they are

690
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 7: actually writing a new playbook for how you sort of

691
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 7: destroy and stifle reporting, takeout critics or any sort of

692
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 7: organization that does work that they don't like. And it

693
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 7: isn't just that they're using traditional tools. They are writing

694
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 7: a new playbook sort of. There's one two punches between

695
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 7: you know, filing these lawsuits, including in international jurisdictions, which

696
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 7: just burns money, and then also getting state attorney generals

697
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 7: to speed run discovery and sort of write it flows

698
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 7: through your documentation does make it a lot harder for

699
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 7: any organization to survive those attacks. And that is sort

700
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 7: of a big alarm bell. And thankfully it's just my opinion.

701
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 7: I mean, US Press Freedom Tracker, which is one of

702
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,959
Speaker 7: the big journalism washdogs, counts this as one of their

703
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 7: big cases to track because of the way that it's

704
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 7: playing out. It will sort of be a little bit

705
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 7: of a canary of the coal mine for how Monoga

706
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 7: World and the far right deal with news outlets and

707
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 7: truthfully other organizations. So we're sort of a little bit

708
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 7: of the tip of the spear here in how they're

709
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 7: deploying new tactics.

710
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, the idea that.

711
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: The ages of these two states are basically Elon's personal

712
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 1: lawyers is kind of scare.

713
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 7: There are things that are really disturbing about it, which

714
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 7: is that it's not like they just did this because

715
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 7: they saw the news.

716
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 6: He was posting about it on x on his platform.

717
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 5: And then Andrew Bailey.

718
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 7: Who himself is he's the Missori attorney general who's in

719
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 7: a heated primary right now, he had sort of talked

720
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 7: about the investigation, sent some letters, but he never took

721
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 7: the next step. And then after we won the injunction

722
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 7: against Ken Paxton, he still hadn't taken that next step yet.

723
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 6: He was just talking.

724
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 7: And then Elon Musk does a Twitter space with him

725
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 7: and a few days later he launches into a lawsuit

726
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 7: against us. He sort of takes that next step, right,

727
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 7: So there's some commonalities in who their lawyers are, you know,

728
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 7: and some overlap there and who they're using to defend

729
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 7: themselves and the cases against us. And it is very

730
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 7: unsettling because he basically was able to send and leverage

731
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 7: state power to attempt to dig through what he had

732
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 7: said he wanted was our donor information because obviously because

733
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 7: we're a nonprofit. We raise money from you know, individuals foundations,

734
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 7: because one of the ways that you could undermine us,

735
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 7: right is you forced us to spend so much money

736
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 7: that we don't have. The other end of it is

737
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 7: that you try to cut off the supply. And he's

738
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 7: been pretty brazen about this. This isn't a conjecture. And

739
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 7: so you need that information though to figure out how

740
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 7: to cut off the supply. And one way to do

741
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 7: that is, he hopes, is to litigation. That's very tough.

742
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 7: Actually that information is protected, and conservatives have fought very

743
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 7: hard to make sure that information is protected.

744
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: Right. Incredible irony here is that there are.

745
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 6: But then you leverage state attorney gense to do that.

746
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 6: It's a shortcut.

747
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 7: And I think even though this stuff gets complicated with

748
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 7: the legal side, but that's where it becomes really disturbing

749
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 7: for any organization, right. You know, one of the things

750
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 7: that you see play out with these state ag fights

751
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 7: with reproductive health right and trans issues is that they're

752
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 7: going after some of the people that benefit from those

753
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 7: services right now, but what they've escalated in our case,

754
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 7: and it seems to be largely or entirely at the

755
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 7: behest of elon Musk is to also go one step

756
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 7: further and say, all right, well let's start rifling through

757
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 7: and figuring out who's.

758
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 6: Funding this so that we can then go after that.

759
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 7: And that is you know, obviously we're fighting as vigorously

760
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 7: and that was partly why we sort of took those

761
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 7: proactive steps to fight the ages. But that is a

762
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 7: new strategy on their part, and it isn't just that

763
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 7: he is. You know that he's able to post a

764
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,879
Speaker 7: couple posts on Twitter and people jump for it, and

765
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 7: that that does not bode well.

766
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 6: For where we go from here.

767
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 7: If somebody like Musk or Musk even just Musk can

768
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 7: continue to direct state ags to go after basically any

769
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 7: of us credit, this is will be the new nor honestly,

770
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 7: and I think when we look at the landscape, part

771
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 7: of it was how do we engage with this? And

772
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 7: I think we saw this fight as not just one

773
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 7: that like we have to win for a variety of reasons,

774
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 7: including to be miss effective, but also we have to

775
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 7: make sure that they're not writing a new playbook in

776
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 7: front of us that we didn't just sort of like

777
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 7: let sort of get sort of refined and then deployed

778
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 7: against other organizations and other newsrooms, and that is definitely,

779
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 7: to me, the bigger thing that's taking place here.

780
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: So let's just have.

781
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: A minute here to talk about you cover conservative media,

782
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: which has now, like all other media, kind of fragmented.

783
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: It's funny because in twenty sixteen, Fox was sort of

784
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: the place you'd get mentioned dun Tucker Carlton Show, and

785
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: you'd get death threats and it would be you know,

786
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: he had so much power. It feels like he doesn't

787
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,919
Speaker 1: have the same kind of power, even though he has

788
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: his own little empire.

789
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: Is that right?

790
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: And I mean it feels like all those media outlets

791
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: are much more diffuse, and that's true on the left too,

792
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: But I'm just curious if you could weigh in on that.

793
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 7: I think you're totally right, and I think that, to me,

794
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 7: the most significant part about the moment that we're in

795
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 7: right now is that we haven't had a moment like

796
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 7: this in more than thirty years. And by that, I

797
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 7: mean this is the first presidential election in thirty years

798
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 7: where Rush Limbaugh is not the single largest get out

799
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 7: the vote operation.

800
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 6: First presidential election thirty years.

801
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 7: It's hard to emphasize or understood just how significant that

802
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 7: is for our politics, our culture, our democracy, and it's

803
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 7: more than just limbo. It's that what happened in the

804
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 7: nineties is that you had the combination of talk radio

805
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 7: and the birth of Fox News, and those things together

806
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 7: created sort of a center of gravity. So that to

807
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 7: your point, this diffuse right ring media, and there was

808
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,240
Speaker 7: plenty of it, it didn't just function as a diffuse

809
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 7: right ringmedia. It actually was able to be converted into

810
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,720
Speaker 7: an echo chamber. When you had a center of gravity,

811
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 7: you could sort of, you know, drive a narrative through

812
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 7: that media apparatus and it could echo, reverberate, and that

813
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 7: of course has transformative power. Your arms are is on

814
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 7: poin in that right now, there's no center of gravity.

815
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 7: It's a chorus without a conductor. And that's partly why

816
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 7: there's so much political chaos, you know, saying with the

817
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 7: speaker fights, it's partly why there isn't a single place

818
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 7: you could go to that has agenda setting power on

819
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 7: the right. And when you look, you know, when you

820
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 7: look at the fights like Tucker's weaker Candice almost got

821
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 7: fired from Daily Wire, you know there all their numbers

822
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 7: are down. It is a particularly unique moment because they're

823
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 7: all trying to resort and reshuffle, and so they're simultaneously

824
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 7: disoriented and disruptive, but they're also more blood thirsty and scarier.

825
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 7: And I think that tension is sometimes hard to reconcile

826
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 7: because they're both simultaneously less of a threat in terms

827
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 7: of their ability to operationalize misinformation disinformation, but they're also

828
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 7: more of a threat because they're increasingly building organizing power

829
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 7: on what used to be considered with fringes.

830
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 2: Right, and they're also desperate for the viewers.

831
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 1: So when we look at the Is trial verdicts, their

832
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: general feeling was Trump is stronger.

833
00:39:59,280 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 3: Now.

834
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: Look so what you've done, Libs, you've done it now? Right?

835
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 7: Yes, the net effect of all of this is to

836
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 7: radicalize even more people. So I don't know if you

837
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 7: remember diamond and silk. Yes, diamond dyed silk is still around.

838
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 7: Silk today joined started a militia, a militia with a

839
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 7: former bounty under And this is all in response to

840
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 7: the child So the reason I start there is that

841
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 7: the snabshot is that they're increasingly getting people into this

842
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,919
Speaker 7: like more justifiable vigilanteism and sort of preparing for more

843
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 7: extreme tactics, and the way that they did that was

844
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 7: by both undermining the legitimacy of the entire process, but

845
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 7: then also sort of whipping people up into a frenzy

846
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 7: and getting them to believe that it's it's increasingly time

847
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 7: to not just take matters into their own hands. But

848
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 7: in the short term, the most significant thing they can

849
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 7: do is intensified their support for Donald Trump.

850
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: This is a question I've been asking everyone because nobody's

851
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: really been able to answer it. Your a normal suburban

852
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: mom in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

853
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: Where are you getting your news?

854
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 7: You're getting in is sort of indirectly from I say, TikTok.

855
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 7: But it's not just that you're getting it from TikTok.

856
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 7: You're getting it downstream from TikTok if you're not on it,

857
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 7: So you'll see it on your Facebook wheels a couple

858
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 7: of days or a couple weeks later, or you'll get

859
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 7: it secondhand through your own sort of social networks or friends,

860
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 7: your word of mouth communication, and that's where you're getting

861
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 7: it from largely. And I think that's sometimes not reflected

862
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 7: in the polls, and that they all think Donald Trump

863
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 7: is bad. They think the rule of law is important,

864
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 7: but the prevailing sentiment in those circles and those narratives

865
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 7: putting us out out of the polls. Say, but just

866
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 7: if you look at where people consume, how they get

867
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 7: their information, that that audience, they basically think that everybody's corrupt, right, right,

868
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 7: So like Nuance, and so it's like, well all politicians

869
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 7: are corrupt, so all right, you know, and then they

870
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 7: immediately pivot back to how this affects their own personal life,

871
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 7: and that is the core economic issues, and that is

872
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 7: mostly center around groceries.

873
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: Right, if you're running the Biden campaign, where are you

874
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: going to try to get your message through?

875
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 7: I would be almost entirely in non political programming, So

876
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 7: I would be having urga speaking to people that are

877
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 7: talking about crime, true crime, much.

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00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 6: More local content.

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00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 7: I would be almost doing no national news, no national programming,

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00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 7: and I would not be hiring like major influencers. I'd

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00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 7: be really working with micro influencers, so people that are

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00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 7: promit in their community, sort of engaging more about not

883
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 7: only things that have been done, but sort of talking

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00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 7: a little bit more about say you know that it's

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00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 7: the grocery stores that are actually sort of inflating to

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00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 7: Bill's somewhat artificially, sort of shifting that back.

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00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 6: I would not be doing much national.

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00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Thank you so much, Angelo, Thank.

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00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 3: You no more perfectly.

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00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 2: Jesse Cannon, my junk fest.

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00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 7: What are you seeing here with the Washington Post in

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00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 7: my workplace the Daily Beast.

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00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: Both the Washington Post and the Daily Beast are going

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00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: to have editors who come from British conservative media. Too

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00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: soon to know what that means, but certainly a little

896
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 1: bit scary, and as both of us came up through

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00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: the Daily Beast, it's pretty heartbreaking to us.

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00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 2: And that, my friends, is my moment of fuckery.

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Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

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Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

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00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

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00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

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00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.