WEBVTT - Josh Berger 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.480 Are we? Are we on? Are we a bit forty? Now? 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:09.959 It's nice? 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:10.280 Do you want? 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:11.920 Do you guys want to come and sit closer? If 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:19.119 I'm closer. When Matthew Freud suggested that I have my 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:23.080 debut live podcast, my first call was to Josh Burger, 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.560 Josh said yes. During his thirty years at Warner Brothers, 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:31.440 Josh brought to audiences the greatest movies Harry Potter, A 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:35.400 Star Is Born, The Hangover, which I personally loved, and 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.440 He'll make London a city of moviegoers and movie makers. 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:43.839 As chairman of the British Film Institute, he turned it 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:48.120 into something exciting and dynamic. In his spare time, he 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:52.159 co produced the Tony Award winning Broadway musical Ain't Too 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:56.400 Proud The Life and Times of the Temptations. In his 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.920 spare spare time, Josh is my brand, and though I'm 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:04.160 twenty years ahead of him, for endless reasons, I refer 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:07.760 to him as my older brother. It's safe to say 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.640 that I think I know practically everything there is to 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.840 know about Josh Berger. But tonight, talking with him with 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.720 you as an audience about food in his life, I 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:24.000 think and hope that I'll learn more lucky me. So 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.479 you also might know that Josh if you do listen. 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.440 He also has a very important role in that he 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.560 introduces every podcast of River Cafe Table four. 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.160 Here we go, this is the job about which I'm proudest, 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:43.280 and here goes. Welcome to River Cafe Table four, a 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:45.959 production of iHeartRadio and Adamized Studios. 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:46.960 How about that? 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.160 Yay, thank you for coming me tonight. That is the 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:52.040 end of the podcast. 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:57.640 We're done, Let's get okay. So you talk a lot 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:01.800 about going to restaurants for pleasure, but in the movie business, 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.240 a lot of work gets done in restaurants. People do 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.640 deals in restaurants, They interview people in restaurants. Would you 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:08.880 do business over food? 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:09.480 Definitely? 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.400 I mean the place where I really learned the art 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.600 of a sort of a business meal, where they really 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.280 get it right is Spain. First of all, you go 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.760 to lunch in Spain at about two or two thirty, 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:23.919 and if you get it right and you're doing business 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.040 with somebody, you'll still be there at five thirty or 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:30.680 six o'clock. And so there's an unwritten rule in Spain 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:33.400 when you're at a business lunch, which is you never 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:38.320 talk about business until coffee and dessert, and so that 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.040 means that you'd be sitting there with you know, somebody 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.519 for two maybe three hours before you have any discussion. 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.239 And of course you drink a bottle or two of 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.760 wine before you get there. So needless to say, all 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.200 of the business you do is fabulous because you are 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.560 completely weentered by the time you know, dessert gets there. 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.760 And I tell you, the best business meetings I've ever 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:05.000 had in restaurants always were in Spain for that reason. 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:06.480 It's a very smart idea. 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.959 You know, you develop a rapport with somebody, you talk 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.280 about what you're doing and what matters to you. So 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:14.399 by the time you get to the business, it takes 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.400 fifteen minutes and you kind of sort it out. So 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:21.079 and any restaurant where you've got space, you know, just 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:25.680 to answer your question, yeah, somewhere where you actually are 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.679 not on top of other people and the service is 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:33.160 that right balance of attentive but basically in the background. 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:36.760 Does taking somebody out to a restaurant tell you about 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.280 the person you're taking out as well the way they 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:40.920 behave in a restaurant design o God? 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:45.760 Yeah, yeah, you can tell everything that matters probably about 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.160 somebody during a meal in a restaurant. You know how 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:50.120 they talk to you, but more importantly, how they talk 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.080 to the people in the restaurant, and when people are 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.760 polite to the people serving them, when they're rude, if 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.480 they're short, if they are looking at you in the 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:01.080 eye or not. 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:03.400 I mean, all of those little. 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:07.240 Those little clues are very helpful, especially if you're trying 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.160 to assess whether or not to work with somebody, to 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.080 be in business with somebody. It's very revealing, for sure. 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:15.160 I don't know if you know the drill, but the 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:17.800 drill is at every guest. And that's how we've really started. 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.560 The idea of doing a podcast was that we would 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.640 just do a recipe, just a recipe, every day of 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.760 the year, and some very bright person said to me, 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:31.640 RUTHI maybe we need a little bit more. So the 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.880 idea of the recipe segued into a story about food 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.160 in the guest's life. So with Josh, we're going to 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.640 start with the recipe that you've chosen from the River 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:42.599 Cafe cookbooks. 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:48.479 Yes, I will read Banya Kauda with prosecco. These are 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.479 autumn vegetables, but it's a seasonal dish. It serves six, 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:56.000 and you would add the following seven hundred and fifty 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:00.240 millilters of prosecco, three garlic cloves peeled, three hun undred 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.960 grams of Swiss charred, one small pumpkin cut into six pieces, 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:08.760 three celery hearts quartered, twelve salted anchovies cleaned and fillted, 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:12.200 two hundred and fifty grams on salted butter softened, and 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.480 fifty millilters of the best River Cafe olive oil. So 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.640 you put the prosecco into a saucepan, add the garlic 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.480 and boil until the prosecco has reduced and the garlic 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:26.440 is soft. Remove from the heat and set aside. Then 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.840 bring a saucepan of salted water to the boil. Blanch 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.599 the Swiss charred, making sure the stalks are softened before draining. 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.360 Add the fennel, pumpkin and celery hearts to reduce the 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.400 heat and simmer for ten minutes or until tender. 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:42.480 To finish the sauce. 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:46.520 Return the saucepan with the reduced prosecco and soften garlic 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.160 to the heat and add the anchovy filets. Allow them 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.760 to melt into the mixture. Gently whisk in the softened 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.440 butter little by little, removing the pan from the heat. 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.320 After the first addition of butter. When all the butter 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.600 has been in corp breded, add the olive oil and 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.960 black pepper, arrange the vegetables on a warm plate, and 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.680 pour over the sauce and serve immediately. 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:12.120 Yum yum. Yeah. So, of all the recipes that you 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:16.120 could have chosen in the books, what made you choose 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:17.560 man Katta? Josh Berger? 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.680 So banya kouda is a dish which I first tried 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.600 at the River Cafe. I don't like anchovies, and so 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:28.400 banyicauda is always something that I wouldn't go near. And 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.560 then I think I tried it off of somebody's plate, 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.280 not knowing what it was, and it was just the 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.320 best vegetable dish I think I had ever eaten. And 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.560 the anchovies are you know, they just come together with 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:44.320 all of the cooked vegetables and they make this beautiful, salty, warm, 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.480 fabulous vegetable dish. And it's now my favorite vegetable dish 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:50.240 in the world, and I order it every time it's 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.600 on the menu. And whether it's a summer banyakauda or 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:57.280 indeed a winter It is fabulous and I love it, 0:06:58.040 --> 0:06:59.559 and so it's pretty. 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:03.560 It's very regional. It is very much from the Piedmonte 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.760 region of Italy. And I think growing up in LA 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.920 did you ever have a banicouta in Los Angeles? 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.480 Well, benicauda means warm bath, you've had a I had 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:19.680 warm baths, not that many, but I have to say, 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:23.440 I'm not sure that I had anything even close to abanicauda, 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:25.000 except for maybe a pizza. 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.640 So tell me about growing up in LA. You grew 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:29.160 up in Beverly Hills. 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:29.840 I did. 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.200 I was born in Los Angeles, California, where I spent 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:36.600 my first eighteen years really not leaving at all. And 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:39.760 I grew up in the Beverly Hills part of Los 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:44.120 Angeles to parents who were in the entertainment business. One 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.200 was a manager and the other was an agent, and 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.600 so they worked with actors and directors, and my father 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.640 in particular worked in the music business and managed a. 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:53.840 Lot of the motown artists. 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:58.840 So I had a strange kind of childhood of a 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.480 lot of recording sessions and American Bandstand and Soul Train 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.080 on the weekends. But I grew up in a very 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:10.720 entertainment world, which is not surprising because it's a sort 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:12.880 of a one industry town, or at least it used 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:14.480 to be back in the seventies and eighties when I 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:14.800 grew up. 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.760 And what about what were your childhood memories of food 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.640 in both your home or going out to restaurants. What 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:22.280 was that like? 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.680 Well, I was in lots of restaurants with my father. 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.480 My parents were divorced. There was no family meal as such. 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.839 That just wasn't a part of my childhood. And I 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.439 just kind of remember certain certain things that I ate, 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.880 which I kind of loved. And there was a British 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.360 woman named Sarah, who was my father's girlfriend after my 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.480 parents split, who made me a belt from Britain, and 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.480 somehow it seemed so exotic that it was a British 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.840 bacon medicine tomato sandwich, and it really was the best 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:55.600 thing I had ever eaten up until that point. 0:08:56.200 --> 0:09:00.920 I was about seven eight years old. I didn't hear 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:03.080 what was it? He said, here, here, oh here, here, 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.120 I agree, there we go. We love it. 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:07.360 And I had it with a root beer, which I 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.679 don't know if anybody's familiar with that drink, but it 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.559 was a very very good combination and then from there though, 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:15.760 I would say that the thing that I was most 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:19.880 involved in eating regularly was breakfast cereal. And I was 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.839 a real expert on breakfast cereal, and I ate I 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.160 think everyone that was on the market, because I would 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:27.199 make it a point of trying all of them. And 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:28.839 there was a time that I could do it like 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.920 a blind tasting and name every breakfast cereal and I 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:33.640 would eat. I would eat it for breakfast, and I 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.720 would also eat it at night and even in the daytime. 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.280 And it's nothing to be proud of, but I am 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:42.840 still somewhat addicted to breakfast cereal. 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.120 As a child. Would you be expected to buy them 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.280 the cereals yourself or would your parents or someone in 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.000 the house. When I would go to them, to a 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.320 cupboard full of breakfast cereals, you could choose them. 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:52.760 Yeah. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:54.720 When I would go to the market, I would buy 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.320 them myself. My mother would buy them, my father would 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.679 buy them. My father still buys them to you know. 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:01.560 When I come to Los Angeles and I stay with him, 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:05.439 he still loads up with you know, coco crispies and 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:07.400 cocoa pops and lucky charms. 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.160 There used to be saying that the box had more 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:11.920 nutrition than the cereal. 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:14.240 Very possible. 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:15.760 Another thing I would do is I also read the 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:17.760 boxes and I would commit to memory everything that was 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:18.559 on the boxes. 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.040 This is what I was left to do as a child. 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.400 Well, I always think that one of the ni again 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.920 knowing you really well, that you are an exceptional guest. 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.920 You are somebody who feels very comfortable in other people's houses. 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.520 We all as hosts love having you in our house. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:47.400 And I think that that might come from spending a 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.120 lot of time in other people's houses as a kid 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:53.040 growing up in a nice after school going to did 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.480 you remember any of the food from Would you choose 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:57.560 kind of who you wanted to go to which house 0:10:57.640 --> 0:10:59.880 because of the food, or would you just go to 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:00.880 people's houses. 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:02.680 I would go to people's houses. 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.960 I mean I've been, of course, in anticipation of this conversation, 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.439 I've been trying to remember anything that I could about 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.120 the food that I would eat in my friend's houses. 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.959 And I did spend an inordinate amount of time in 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:17.559 other people's houses growing up. My mother worked, my father worked, 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.480 and so I had a couple of sort of very 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.040 close friends, and I would spend much time in their place, 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.400 and I would have dinner there invariably almost every night, 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.679 and I just can't remember one of the meals, unfortunately, 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.679 But I do remember. I remember my mother cooked. She 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.160 really cooked two things that I remember and that I 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:40.719 loved and I still love a pot roast and a 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:46.120 lasagna and a stuffed cabbage as well the third thing. 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.640 And in fact, I called her the other day and 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.640 I asked her why was the stuff cabbage so good? 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.760 And she told me because she added brown sugar and 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:57.280 sours salt. I don't even know what sour salt is, 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:58.440 but sara salt. 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.640 Does anybody know what sour salt is? No, I've never 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:01.040 heard of it. 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:05.360 No, It's a very obscure recipe, maybe from Eastern Europe 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:05.720 or something. 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.079 Yeah, and then you were thrust into the world of 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.760 motown and music and was there food there? Would you 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.719 go to the equivalent of what music terms as a 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.439 set or a studio, would there be food there? 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:18.520 Yeah? 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.880 I mean I remember I remember going to sets of 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.319 like those TV shows that I mentioned, which I used 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:25.120 to go to on the weekend with my dad and 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:30.719 his clients. And I think, frankly TV sets then and 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:35.720 even today, and recording sessions in the studio. It's all 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.319 the same kind of food, you know, It's just it's 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.960 kind of fast food. It's sandwiches, it's donuts, it's cookies, 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.800 nothing particularly good. I mean, I think there's a focus today, 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:47.960 at least on a movie set or a TV set, 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.079 to have some healthier options, because that's sort of the 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.520 age that we're in. But back then, it was great 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:56.559 for a kid because it was just junk food everywhere. 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:57.520 I loved that. 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:02.240 But my godfather was Barry Gordy, the founder of Motown, 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.120 and so I spent my weekends at his house often, 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.800 and so on Sundays, sort of late in the day, 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:10.839 the sort of dinner that would be served early was 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.760 Southern fried cooking, which was his background and his heritage. 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.440 And in a way, that could be the first. 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:21.280 Cuisine that I understood to be a particular category of 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:22.880 American cuisine that I loved. 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:23.439 You know. 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.520 It was fried chicken and collared greens and black eyed 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.920 peas and macaroni and cheese, and I mean it was 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.319 just all of it was completely delicious. I used to 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:37.480 really look forward to that Sunday and that Sunday evening meal, 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:39.559 and it was funny because it would be served in 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:40.800 these beautiful. 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.240 You know, silver servers. But it was, you know, just 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:45.720 his very earthy food. 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.240 And yeah, black and cod and black and redfish actually 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.160 is the one that loved black and redfish is it's 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.120 just sort of a southern, a Southern way of cooking fish, 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.199 I think from Louisiana and Mississippi, where I don't know 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.559 how they do it. I mean they blacken this redfish. 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.079 I mean they really char it. It's very very smoky 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.400 and kind of the skin is crispy and really tasty 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:06.160 and spicy. 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.320 Well, we could go to when you went to university. 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.080 Was that an awakening at any point? 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:11.599 It was. 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.319 I left LA and I lived in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:18.400 I was going to Harvard, and it wasn't There wasn't 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.360 no awakening yet while I was there. You know, I 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.480 liked school food in high school and in college, you know, 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:29.720 this kind of mass produced food. But the awakening happened 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.480 more when I took a year off of school and 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:34.800 I went to live in Italy to work, and I 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.320 was in Venice and a guy was selling a raw tomato. 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:41.080 I think he was just trying to get rid of 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:42.640 the last bits of him he said, here, you know, 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.560 I'm gonna tell you, you know, a couple of tomatoes 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:46.920 for I don't know, a couple of lira or whatever 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:48.960 at the time, and it was really hot and I 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.080 was really thirsty, and so I bit into a tomato 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:54.440 of all things, and it was like the greatest thing 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:55.880 I had ever tasted in my life. 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.320 And I had just gotten to Italy, and so began 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.080 this a kind of revelation. 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.320 About food and about how good food can be in 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.000 Italy and I was living in I was traveling around, 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.480 but I was living in Milan, and really the place 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.440 that I discovered this was in a neighborhood restaurant in 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.000 Milan near where I lived, and it was just, you know, 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.320 a lady in the kitchen and her husband was the 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:24.840 maitre d This was in nineteen eighty six and the 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.280 fall of eighty six and the winter of eighty seven, 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.200 and I just happened upon this place and then I 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:32.040 went there three times a week, and I got to 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.440 know the family and they taught me about Italian food, 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:41.240 and I ate so many different incredible meals and it 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.240 wasn't you know, some of the famous dishes, but it 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.800 was just you know, the fish. It's like Ilpeche, you know, theola, 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.880 like the chicken, the meat, the fish, the vegetables e contorni, 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.360 you know, and they just serve. You don't even know 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.920 what you were eating half the time. And it was 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.560 just mind blowing. And I was alone a lot of 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.880 the time, which meant that I could really sort of appreciated, 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.000 you know, there's no talking, and I was learning Italian 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.160 as well, so I would speak to these these people 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.360 and they would explain to me about what I was eating. 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.640 And I think at that point I realized that this 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.280 was going to be like a love affair, like for 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:17.480 the rest of my life. And I kind of got 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:22.240 very enthusiastic about food, no matter what the food was, 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:23.440 and I still am. 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.040 Two other people I think I talked to talked about Milan, 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:30.880 and it was Norman Bloster has said that he had 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.880 his first risotto in Milan, and up until then he 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.360 just had rice, you know, and what that meant, you know, 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:40.120 just eating your your first risotto. You know, I think 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.480 Milan is probably a really good place to discover food. 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:45.760 Did you ever think about cooking or did you just 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:46.800 want to keep eating out? 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.920 Well, my roommate Paolo Savignano taught me how to make pasta. 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.480 And the other thing he taught me what how to 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.040 do was with vegetables, like raw vegetables, And the one 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:01.000 that really made an impression was finocchio fennel, which was 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.040 just take a I never knew what a fenel was actually, 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.000 so he pulled this thing out, started cutting it into pieces, 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.359 and then just olive oil salt on a piece of 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:10.000 raw fennel. 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.320 It's one of the greatest things in the world. 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.920 It's interesting, isn't it, because coming from California, which is 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.520 the garden of the United States, now you know the 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:23.159 artichokes and fennel and tomatoes, and I was that we 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.119 really now look at California as a place where we 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.359 get these great vegetables, and yet we kind of probably 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:33.439 turned our back on the ingredient. And then it all changed, 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:37.600 and now in California the ingredient is so important though, 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.400 the way they grow vegetables and an apple valley surrounding 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.719 you know, Los Angeles, is huge, isn't it. But there 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.480 still is that thing about that man giving you the 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:49.719 ripest tomato in venice exactly. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:53.840 And actually something I didn't mention when I finished university, 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.080 I went to live in Paris. That was the first 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.280 place I worked after school for Warner Brothers. And I 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.840 had a great friend through my one of my best 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:05.840 friends from college, this guy Alex, who was a chef 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.800 and he was training at Tayvon and so while he 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:10.960 was there, every Sunday night, we would have a dinner 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:12.960 with all of these friends from school who were living 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:16.199 in Paris at the same time. And every person there 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:17.680 was a kind of a core group, and everybody would 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.480 bring one or two people. So we had these dinner 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.080 parties every Sunday, and Alex would try out his recipes 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.240 and the things he was learning. I mean, and actually 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:26.639 I have to say that, you know, aside from my 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.040 year off in Milan where I kind of discovered great 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.359 ingredients and great food, and then Alex really taught me 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.680 about buying great, great food that you just reminded me, 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:37.280 you know. I used to go to the market with 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.960 him off the Rue Dutamp on the Saturday morning and 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.520 we'd buy just whatever was there that he liked the 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.760 look of and then we'd go back and he would 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.920 just throw something together and just make brunch for the 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.239 two of us, and then Sunday nights we'd have these 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.879 dinner parties and that was the best food I had 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:55.440 ever eaten up until that time. 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.480 So you talk about the exposure to Europe. You know 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.960 about Milan, about France, but you also you have to 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:15.800 bring in Spain here, because I know you talk about 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:19.680 Spain a lot. You love Spain, You eat Spanish food, 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:23.320 cook Spanish fruit. Talk about Spain for a minute. 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.119 Yeah, I moved to Madrid and I had been warned, 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:28.159 you know, Spain. 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.520 People had said to me the food is not that 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.399 great and it's all basically golden brown and everything's fried, 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:37.320 and you know, you're not going to. 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:37.960 Love the food. 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:40.639 And of course everybody who told me that really had 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.160 just been there for a week on holiday and didn't 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.680 really know the food. And I have to say it 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.800 might be the country that I most like eating in 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.240 because of the variety. In number one, I mean, Spain 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.960 is a country of a half dozen countries. You know, 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.560 Galicia and what you eat there versus the Basque country 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:03.360 versus Catalunya versus Castilla, versus Andalucia versus Valencia. I mean, 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:07.520 every part of that country has really its own cuisine 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.359 and they're very distinct really because so many different groups 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:13.639 of people have been through that country and have run it. 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:19.000 The Moorish influence in Spain, I think has created just great, 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:23.399