WEBVTT - Work in Progress: Michael Urie

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress high

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<v Speaker 1>wib Smarties. Today we are joined by one of my

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<v Speaker 1>favorite co stars ever, actor, producer, director, and host, Michael Uri,

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<v Speaker 1>who you know from bringing stories to life on screen,

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<v Speaker 1>on stage, and behind the scenes. He was everybody's favorite

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<v Speaker 1>Mark Saint James on ABC's Ugly Betty. He's been on

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<v Speaker 1>Modern Family, The Good Wife, The Good Fight, Younger, Workaholics,

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<v Speaker 1>Partners with Me, and basically every incredible play on Broadway

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Ever, Michael's currently starring in Apple TV's

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<v Speaker 1>hit series Shrinking, for which he won a Critics Choice Award.

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<v Speaker 1>He is absolutely one of the funniest people any of

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<v Speaker 1>us knows, and he's bringing some of that old school

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<v Speaker 1>humor back not only to the screen but to the

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<v Speaker 1>airwaves with his Ugly Betty co star Becky Newton and

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<v Speaker 1>their Rewatch podcast. Still Ugly and one of my very

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<v Speaker 1>favorite things that Michael does in all of his spare

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<v Speaker 1>time JK. He has none is He is the co

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<v Speaker 1>founder of New York City's Pride Plays, which celebrate and

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<v Speaker 1>elevate LGBTQ voices in the theater. This year, he's taking

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<v Speaker 1>the Pride Plays to Washington, d C. For World Pride,

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<v Speaker 1>and I can't wait to talk to him today about life, love, motivation,

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<v Speaker 1>lessons on screen and off, and how he manages to

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<v Speaker 1>keep this incredibly impressive resume going. Let's dive in with

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<v Speaker 1>Michael Ary.

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<v Speaker 2>I was trying to remember, is that right? We were

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<v Speaker 2>the first gay kiss.

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<v Speaker 1>On CBS and it was a peck.

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<v Speaker 2>Just pack.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a little smitchie. It's a little very cute.

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<v Speaker 2>So cute.

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<v Speaker 1>But what I was remembering is you never tell people

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<v Speaker 1>you made out Superman.

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<v Speaker 2>We didn't really make up, but yes, I do. OK.

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<v Speaker 2>The answer is one yes too. We didn't really make out.

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<v Speaker 2>It was always just a peck and it was never

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<v Speaker 2>very romantic or sexy. But what I was thinking about

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<v Speaker 2>as I walked over today was you and he had

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<v Speaker 2>a sexy kiss.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right? That like the David's nightmare?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah it was?

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<v Speaker 1>Was it your nightmare?

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<v Speaker 2>Was it a nightmare? Like? Just oh yeah? It was

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<v Speaker 2>like a test. It was like let's see if I

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<v Speaker 2>feel anything. Oh yeah, I don't feel anything. Let me

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<v Speaker 2>just try one more time and they kiss again. It

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<v Speaker 2>was one of those was it?

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it was like a hallucination.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe that was it? Now that you're saying that anyway, anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>I remember when did we watch our show? Also, that's

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<v Speaker 2>our that's our next podcast. But that's what I like.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember, Oh yeah, they let that. They let the

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<v Speaker 2>like the beautiful straight characters. Well they let the straight

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<v Speaker 2>woman kiss a gay man the hot game.

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<v Speaker 1>But not the gay man's partner.

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<v Speaker 2>We had to just peck. Do you guys have this

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<v Speaker 2>like sexy, romantic, steamy kiss woo? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I remember because I got to be on safetand.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, oh my.

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<v Speaker 1>Was supposed to be fabulous, but like more than once

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<v Speaker 1>it blew into my mouth and I was like, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just not hurt. I don't have the like. I'm more like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm a little more of a hobbit than

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<v Speaker 1>a pop star.

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<v Speaker 2>But here we are hobbit hobbit it around.

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<v Speaker 1>A little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Happy, happy hobbit. We had good times though.

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<v Speaker 1>Happy Easter.

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<v Speaker 2>I was shooting on Warner Brothers and I still think

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<v Speaker 2>about us all the time because Stage nineteen, I think,

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<v Speaker 2>is where we were, and it's right by the gym,

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<v Speaker 2>and I go there all the time and I always

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<v Speaker 2>think about us.

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<v Speaker 1>To shoot a show on that lot, Warner Brothers, Law

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<v Speaker 1>Universal law I'm still trying to manifest it.

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<v Speaker 2>Again the best every time I come out of a

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<v Speaker 2>stage at Warner Brothers and you see those look Have

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<v Speaker 2>you watched the studio the new Apple Show?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's on my list as it could.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really cool. It's like the craft is incredible, meaning.

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<v Speaker 1>How they shoot. Yes, okay, it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Gorgeous and like most it feels like it's one shot.

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<v Speaker 2>Really yeah, And it's so like fast paced, and there's

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<v Speaker 2>dozens of extras everywhere, and it's it's all on Warner Brothers,

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<v Speaker 2>so that you see the lot all the time and

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's very cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you love is there really? I feel like there

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<v Speaker 1>is a viewer for me a difference in the sort

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<v Speaker 1>of level of creativity on an Apple show. Oh and

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<v Speaker 1>so doing shrinking do you do you just sort of

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<v Speaker 1>is it palpable for you?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean Bill Lawrence? Yes, the answer is yes. Like

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<v Speaker 2>Bill Lawrence, my boss is so cool and he he

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<v Speaker 2>runs such a it's like an asshole free zone. There's

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<v Speaker 2>nobody with a chip anywhere. And he's a generous, fun

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<v Speaker 2>kind man. He comes on set and and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he comes on set and it doesn't make everyone nervous.

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<v Speaker 2>It makes everyone everyone's shoulders drop when he comes on

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<v Speaker 2>set because we know, like, oh, he's gonna, you know whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>even if it's great, he's going to make it better.

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<v Speaker 2>Even if what we're doing is already great, he's going

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<v Speaker 2>to make it better. And and he's so busy as

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<v Speaker 2>so many things going on. He's like doing ten shows

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<v Speaker 2>at once. So smart, and he's so smart, and he

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<v Speaker 2>surrounds himself with the best people. They're people that have

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<v Speaker 2>been with him for decades.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, you always know when you meet somebody

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<v Speaker 2>or work with somebody and they've got the same people

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<v Speaker 2>around them and have for a long time. Yes, that's

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<v Speaker 2>that's I think a really good sign.

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<v Speaker 1>I've had this experience this year because listen, I love

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<v Speaker 1>what we do, and sometimes set is not a nice

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<v Speaker 1>place to be and we've all had the best and

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<v Speaker 1>the worst of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And.

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<v Speaker 1>The revelation for me this year of working on a

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<v Speaker 1>Shonda Rhime set has been wild. Oh, because they it's this. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>everyone is happy to be there. Nobody has a chip,

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<v Speaker 1>nobody's checking the clock, nobody's trying to get home early.

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<v Speaker 1>But they do want to make sure people get home,

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<v Speaker 1>like in time to see their kids, right, you know, right,

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<v Speaker 1>the whole dynamic. And then you go, oh, I get why.

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<v Speaker 1>You guys have been doing this for twenty one years,

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<v Speaker 1>like the entire time I've been an actor. They've been

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<v Speaker 1>making this one show of.

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<v Speaker 2>Hers And that's crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>Crazy, it's crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>That's just been on for twenty one years.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, wow, I know. And it's lovely. It's a lovely

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<v Speaker 1>place to go to work.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think a lot of people you've been there

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<v Speaker 2>the whole time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, I mean crew members, you know, started working

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<v Speaker 1>when they were young and now their kids are Oh

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<v Speaker 1>my gosh, it's crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>Homes bought, mortgage is paid. Yeah, so that's really that's amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really cool. It's cool when the right person becomes

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<v Speaker 2>a boss. Yes, it's a really like wonderful, magical special thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And I like knowing that you have that.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I've got a great boss. And everybody. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a great it's a great crew, it's a great cast

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<v Speaker 2>is amazing. The writing is amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>Writing is amazing. I just have the most fun watching you.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh obviously, you know, all I want to do is

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<v Speaker 1>talk about feelings all the time. I sort of turned

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<v Speaker 1>into the therapist at the corner of every party. So

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<v Speaker 1>now that there's a show that's on about a therapist

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<v Speaker 1>and his world, I'm just like I've been waiting for this.

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<v Speaker 2>It's also like I feel like this show and this

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<v Speaker 2>is you know, I mean, having done a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>gay stuff no why you know what I'm saying the

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<v Speaker 2>TV theater, you know, for like you know, quite a while.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I will get recognized by queer people or the

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<v Speaker 2>ladies who love them. And and now lately it's been

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of straight boys, straight men because because this

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<v Speaker 2>show lets them talk about their feelings and it's like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's it's it's pretty moving. Just last night,

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<v Speaker 2>somebody came up to me who I know, who I

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't seen in a long time, and he said, I

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<v Speaker 2>just have to tell you that we have a family

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<v Speaker 2>member and this show has we haven't you know, like

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<v Speaker 2>there's been some tension and this show has brought us

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<v Speaker 2>back together. I know, I know. And it's like this

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<v Speaker 2>that like there's something about these straights. You know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>a Harrison Ford thing, It's a Jason Siegel thing, a

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<v Speaker 2>Bill Lawrence thing, Like these guys have tapped into like

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<v Speaker 2>a like a masculine sensitivity, and uh, it's it's cool.

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<v Speaker 1>It strikes me the cool thing when we're in the

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<v Speaker 1>obvious nightmare you know, for women, we're people, most of

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<v Speaker 1>us in the world of the manosphere that is so

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<v Speaker 1>violent and toxic and scary. They've done this really cool

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<v Speaker 1>thing with these men because they're dudes. Yeah, like Harrison

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<v Speaker 1>Board's the he's.

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<v Speaker 2>The dutiest dude of all dudes.

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<v Speaker 1>And they're just they're not so evolved that they're like insufferable.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not whatever anyone thinks like an evolved man is.

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<v Speaker 1>They're just healthy men or men working on being healthy,

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<v Speaker 1>figuring out how to be healthy. It's like, it's nice

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<v Speaker 1>to see mask uinity that isn't trying to punch you

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<v Speaker 1>in the face.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, but that's.

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<v Speaker 1>Still allowed to be funny and flawed and yeah and

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<v Speaker 1>heroic and he's allowed to be a good dad and

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<v Speaker 1>all these things. And you're like that that's what I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>That's like, it's nice. That's what's possible. Yeah, that's what's possible.

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<v Speaker 2>And for it to be from a guy who is

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<v Speaker 2>a puncher and a guy who does has done gross

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<v Speaker 2>R rated comedies, you know, like that these guys can

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<v Speaker 2>now come around and evolve in two and Bill's been

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<v Speaker 2>on this trajectory all along, you know, you know, from

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<v Speaker 2>the days of Spin City and Scrubs. He was on

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<v Speaker 2>his way towards something that was like a more evolved,

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<v Speaker 2>growing comedy I think. So, yeah, have you guys talked

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<v Speaker 2>about that? No? No, but it's an interesting I have

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<v Speaker 2>a little coffee talk yeah, Bill, Yeah, because he's like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think he's been I don't know, laying

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<v Speaker 2>the seeds of better men, you know, men being better. Yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, this is really interesting because when.

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<v Speaker 2>We started the podcast, yeah, I mean, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Think we're just in it. We dove in normally I

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<v Speaker 1>like to ask the question I'm about to ask you,

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<v Speaker 1>But I do think we've hit a full circle moment

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<v Speaker 1>because you're kind of talking about how people evolve, especially

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<v Speaker 1>as storytellers. And I'm always really curious when I sit

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<v Speaker 1>down with people, not just people who I've been lucky

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<v Speaker 1>enough to know for a long time, but people who

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<v Speaker 1>do what we all do. Like you're saying out in

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<v Speaker 1>the street, people meet you where you are in your career.

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<v Speaker 1>They know about you. They've now at this point probably

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<v Speaker 1>seen you in a couple of shows, a bunch of plays.

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<v Speaker 1>Who knows if you got to look back at your

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<v Speaker 1>own life the way we're talking about even you know

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<v Speaker 1>Bill as a storyteller, and you got to like go

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<v Speaker 1>for a little hang with yourself twelve or ten, like

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<v Speaker 1>in that Little Boy, would you see the adult you

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<v Speaker 1>are today? Would you see a storyteller? Would you see

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<v Speaker 1>the through line? Or would that kid be so wowed

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<v Speaker 1>meet Michael Uri.

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<v Speaker 2>That's wow? What an interesting I like to think the

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<v Speaker 2>ten year old twelve year old me, if he watched TV,

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<v Speaker 2>he would get a kick out of adult me. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think maybe, and I mean certainly imagine like what

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<v Speaker 2>would he have done if he had seen Ugly Betty

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<v Speaker 2>or you know, like gone to the theater and seen

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<v Speaker 2>Spam a lot, or you know something that I've been

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<v Speaker 2>in that a kid would like. And I think about

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<v Speaker 2>that a lot. And I also I just was they

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<v Speaker 2>needed pictures of me as a kid for a scene

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<v Speaker 2>on shrinking, and I was just going through small pictures

0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.520
<v Speaker 2>and there's a picture of me with my friends from

0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:43.560
<v Speaker 2>boy Scouts. Did you have your little It was actually

0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.320
<v Speaker 2>it was actually Club Scouts because I didn't make it

0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.920
<v Speaker 2>to boy Scouts because I couldn't handle the campouts.

0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.240
<v Speaker 1>But not for me.

0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, thank you. I'll be back at my house.

0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.440
<v Speaker 2>But it was a picture of me and like four

0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:01.280
<v Speaker 2>of us all like like hey, I mean, let's get

0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.160
<v Speaker 2>a picture, you know, arms around each other, and they're

0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:07.480
<v Speaker 2>all like smiling, and I'm making the goofyest intentionally goofyest

0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:12.520
<v Speaker 2>space you've ever seen, like moh and uh, probably eleven

0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.000
<v Speaker 2>twelve in that picture. And I was like, oh, yeah,

0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.880
<v Speaker 2>I was a clown. Yeah, I was a clown. Then

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.760
<v Speaker 2>a little yeah, it was a little ham And so

0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:23.800
<v Speaker 2>there is part of me that wants to go back.

0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:26.800
<v Speaker 2>And of course, you know rewatching Ugly Betty, which is

0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:33.760
<v Speaker 2>later but still very very young me. Yeah, And whenever

0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:38.160
<v Speaker 2>I think I haven't figured anything out yet, you know,

0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:39.920
<v Speaker 2>now as a forty four year old, I think I

0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.280
<v Speaker 2>don't know anything, I haven't figured anything out yet, and

0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.080
<v Speaker 2>then I look back and see that goofy kid making

0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.400
<v Speaker 2>everyone laugh in the cub Scout picture or you know

0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:50.520
<v Speaker 2>Ugly Betty, I think, oh, I might be able to

0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:51.680
<v Speaker 2>learn a thing or two from him.

0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.880
<v Speaker 2>There was something about that confidence that I had then

0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.440
<v Speaker 2>that has I still have confidence and I still like

0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.680
<v Speaker 2>know what I'm capable of, but there's definitely like I

0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.679
<v Speaker 2>miss him. I missed that kid that didn't that had

0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.720
<v Speaker 2>never been told no, you know, that whole thing.

0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:13.240
<v Speaker 1>I remember. I remember sort of realizing looking back at

0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.600
<v Speaker 1>the first year we were on the set doing One

0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.800
<v Speaker 1>Tree Hill. I just turned twenty one, I remember saying,

0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:22.320
<v Speaker 1>and I heard it when it came out of my mouth,

0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.120
<v Speaker 1>reflecting on her, going, well, I was just young enough

0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.319
<v Speaker 1>not to know better, meaning like I didn't know. I

0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.520
<v Speaker 1>couldn't go what the you know to my boss who

0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:33.600
<v Speaker 1>was being inappropriate with a bunch of women at the time.

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:35.920
<v Speaker 1>I didn't and people were like, what are you doing?

0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:40.360
<v Speaker 1>And I just I didn't know. There were structures in place.

0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:46.840
<v Speaker 1>And I love that I didn't. I love the unaware confidence,

0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.120
<v Speaker 1>the ability to just lean into like what you feel,

0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.920
<v Speaker 1>what you know to be right. And I do think

0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.760
<v Speaker 1>how lucky we are to be forty somethings and to

0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:02.040
<v Speaker 1>be evolved enough to you have you know, lived and

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.080
<v Speaker 1>grown and you can hold so many things to be

0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.240
<v Speaker 1>true and it's so great. And sometimes I just want

0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.719
<v Speaker 1>the absolutely unconscious confidence of a twenty one or a

0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:12.360
<v Speaker 1>twelve year old.

0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.520
<v Speaker 2>I know, I always feel like in my twenties I

0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.200
<v Speaker 2>thought I knew everything, and then in my thirties I

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:21.120
<v Speaker 2>realized I didn't and it freaked me out. And now

0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:22.840
<v Speaker 2>I know things Like now I'm like, oh, I do

0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.560
<v Speaker 2>know things. Yeah, there's a lot I know, and there's

0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:27.520
<v Speaker 2>stuff I don't know. And I'm okay with that. I'm

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.480
<v Speaker 2>pretty okay. Yeah, and maybe not okay with that, but no,

0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:31.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm okay with that.

0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.080
<v Speaker 1>It's like one of those boards you see people on

0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:36.680
<v Speaker 1>on Instagram where they're wiggling like a personal seesaw.

0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.680
<v Speaker 2>It's that exactly exactly. But all my friends who are thirty,

0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.360
<v Speaker 2>I think they're the oldest people in the world. That's

0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.360
<v Speaker 2>the really fascinating And I did too when I would

0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:46.840
<v Speaker 2>turn thirty.

0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:48.480
<v Speaker 1>That's the hard older at thirty than I felt at

0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:53.400
<v Speaker 1>for oh a thousand, very young now, which is weird. Yeah,

0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:54.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of nice.

0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.720
<v Speaker 2>You look exactly the same. By the way, listener, I

0:14:57.760 --> 0:14:59.960
<v Speaker 2>appreciate that. O case you haven't seen her Shopsivia Bush,

0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.560
<v Speaker 2>she likes exactly what recently was.

0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.720
<v Speaker 1>Like, really, what's the thing? And I said, I wish

0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.360
<v Speaker 1>I could take credit for my lack of sun damage.

0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.160
<v Speaker 1>I was just locked in soundstage for the entire decade

0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.160
<v Speaker 1>of my twenties, so when everyone else got sunburned, I

0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.920
<v Speaker 1>was a vampire, which is great for me in my forties,

0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:18.760
<v Speaker 1>but at the time I was like, I want to

0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:21.560
<v Speaker 1>go on a vacation New Mexico and I just never did.

0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.520
<v Speaker 2>No, you're you're busy taking that flight back and forth,

0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 2>four flights a weekend, four flights a weekend.

0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh gosh, interesting to talk about our first jobs because

0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.920
<v Speaker 1>we're doing the same thing right now and watching our

0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:42.640
<v Speaker 1>first shows. Wild, right, what I have so many questions? Well, okay,

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:44.760
<v Speaker 1>they're all running through my head at rapid fire, and

0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, which one do I pick? What is it like?

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:50.080
<v Speaker 1>Because you've talked about this a little bit, but I

0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.440
<v Speaker 1>haven't spoken to you about this. How you see now?

0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.720
<v Speaker 1>How ahead of its time the show was?

0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Right?

0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:58.800
<v Speaker 1>What do you what do you see? What do you

0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.680
<v Speaker 1>pick up on? How does it feel to watch it?

0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:03.640
<v Speaker 1>You know for the two of you?

0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's wild.

0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.640
<v Speaker 1>What are you realizing about this thing that you that

0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:09.040
<v Speaker 1>you made?

0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 2>First of all, it's so relieved and proud to know

0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.920
<v Speaker 2>that something we made, you know, we shut the pilot

0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.280
<v Speaker 2>nineteen years ago, something that we did all the way

0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:21.200
<v Speaker 2>back then was on the right side of history for

0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:22.880
<v Speaker 2>the most part. I mean, there's a few things that

0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.080
<v Speaker 2>are you know, like that are It's one of those

0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.240
<v Speaker 2>shows that like we we went there with race stuff,

0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:33.720
<v Speaker 2>we went there with queer stuff. And when something was

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, when something was racism or transphobic or homophobic,

0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.240
<v Speaker 2>that was that was on the bat, that was that

0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.760
<v Speaker 2>was bad in the show. So even though we would

0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:46.240
<v Speaker 2>just we would occasionally go there, it was bad. Like

0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:47.960
<v Speaker 2>if I was racist on the show, if my character

0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:49.920
<v Speaker 2>was racist, he got his come up and by the

0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:51.840
<v Speaker 2>end and he was like that. So we were never

0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.960
<v Speaker 2>doing it just for the sake of doing it, whereas

0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:58.360
<v Speaker 2>if you watch some shows, like especially like the nineties,

0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:04.760
<v Speaker 2>everything is gay, panic, horrible, everything horrible. It's crazy like

0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:05.520
<v Speaker 2>are we okay?

0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.199
<v Speaker 1>Were people okay? No, you're so scared of us?

0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:10.840
<v Speaker 2>What are you so scared of? And why is this

0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.840
<v Speaker 2>so funny? And also the funny racism, Like there was

0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.000
<v Speaker 2>that period where we were like it was all just

0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.280
<v Speaker 2>funny to be racist, and it was like, no, no,

0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:20.879
<v Speaker 2>I don't mean it, I being you know, I'm just

0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.399
<v Speaker 2>it's a I mean affable, you know, It's like, no,

0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.000
<v Speaker 2>that's that's actually not funny. That's not funny, and we

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.239
<v Speaker 2>and we all thought it was okay to laugh at

0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:32.760
<v Speaker 2>those things. I guess so that it's a relief to rewatch,

0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.000
<v Speaker 2>like we Betty, And when those things do come up,

0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:40.040
<v Speaker 2>they're not they're bad. They're like, that's not a good thing.

0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 1>They're observed as a bad thing. Yes, we'll be back

0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.919
<v Speaker 1>in just a minute, but here's a word from our sponsors.

0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.760
<v Speaker 1>What's interesting to me about that, though, is I think

0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.280
<v Speaker 1>you have to take it's almost like a math equation

0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.480
<v Speaker 1>to me, you have to sort of analyze what was

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.480
<v Speaker 1>transferm at the time and how it had to be done.

0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.199
<v Speaker 1>And the fact that there was a trans character on

0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.440
<v Speaker 1>Ugly Buddy was a very huge and the fact, by

0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.280
<v Speaker 1>the way, that one of the most famous supermodels in

0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:15.040
<v Speaker 1>the world played that trans character. Actually, I think at

0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:21.399
<v Speaker 1>the time, given where society was, probably did more in

0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:28.639
<v Speaker 1>that year for transvisibility than would have been done otherwise, because,

0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.639
<v Speaker 1>let's be frank, a studio wouldn't have given a role

0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:36.520
<v Speaker 1>to an actual trans woman on a show at the time.

0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:40.920
<v Speaker 1>And so I deal with this stuff too, what rewatching

0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 1>my own show where I'm like, God, I hate that

0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.080
<v Speaker 1>we did it. That way, But I'm glad that we

0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.719
<v Speaker 1>opened the door so that other people could come in

0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:51.680
<v Speaker 1>the door. I talked to Kevin McHale about this.

0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:55.520
<v Speaker 2>A lot with his character on Lee, Sure.

0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:57.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, and now he's like, I wish someone who

0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:02.240
<v Speaker 1>actually was in a wheelchair had played totally. However, his

0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:07.640
<v Speaker 1>character changed the representation for disabled characters on television and so.

0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.920
<v Speaker 2>And it showed disabled young disabled people who wanted to

0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:13.439
<v Speaker 2>be actors that there was a place for them that

0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:14.800
<v Speaker 2>like I could do something.

0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.240
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that you could even go out for a TV

0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:16.640
<v Speaker 1>show in.

0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.040
<v Speaker 2>The first place, and maybe be on a hit show

0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.080
<v Speaker 2>as a series regular on Foxy, you know that exactly

0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.120
<v Speaker 2>on Fox of all networks, by the way, exactly.

0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:28.840
<v Speaker 1>So it's interesting to kind of have to look at

0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:30.960
<v Speaker 1>the thing for what was good and what was bad

0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:32.560
<v Speaker 1>and then divide it by the year it was on

0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:33.000
<v Speaker 1>the team.

0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.240
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, like a little equation.

0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.119
<v Speaker 1>Mark math person should make the actual equation for that

0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.159
<v Speaker 1>for us. It's not me, but I see it in

0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:40.520
<v Speaker 1>my head.

0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.119
<v Speaker 2>And when and and you know, when we would go

0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.960
<v Speaker 2>into issues with when we would like have storylines about

0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:52.880
<v Speaker 2>alexis mean on Ugly Betty her father was not accepting

0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.119
<v Speaker 2>and he was a bad man and he ended up dying.

0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, like that was like, that's love that that's what. Yes,

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.800
<v Speaker 2>and played by a wonderful actor named Alan Dale, who

0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:04.720
<v Speaker 2>was not a bad man, but the character was a

0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:09.720
<v Speaker 2>bad man. And then her mother, Judith Light, complicated woman

0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.800
<v Speaker 2>character that played Alexis Claire Meade. She was a complicated character,

0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.320
<v Speaker 2>but she loved her daughter and she was good and

0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.680
<v Speaker 2>she lived. You know, it's like that, and it was

0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.919
<v Speaker 2>jud Light. So here we have gay icon you know,

0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:29.600
<v Speaker 2>who stood with AIDS patients before anyone else, and they

0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.480
<v Speaker 2>bring her in to support her trans daughter and that's

0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.680
<v Speaker 2>like so you know, it was way ahead of its time,

0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:37.440
<v Speaker 2>and it's so nice to watch it and not be

0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.240
<v Speaker 2>cringey and a relief.

0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:44.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we were on the CW. We have some cringe.

0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:49.600
<v Speaker 1>There's some things that I go on all right, But

0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:53.560
<v Speaker 1>then I you know, I also have the experience where

0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:55.919
<v Speaker 1>sometimes I see us do something or have a conversation

0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.800
<v Speaker 1>or do a storyline and I'm like, damn, I actually

0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.320
<v Speaker 1>get why this was such a big deal. And it's

0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.840
<v Speaker 1>cool to get to become your own fan. I didn't

0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.080
<v Speaker 1>have that. That's so nice.

0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, no, I was too busy learning because I'd never

0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.000
<v Speaker 2>done anything, and so I would watch. This has come

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.600
<v Speaker 2>up a lot on our show too. It's like I

0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:17.879
<v Speaker 2>remember a lot of my stuff, but I don't remember

0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.400
<v Speaker 2>a lot of other people's stuff. And so now I'm

0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:22.560
<v Speaker 2>becoming a fan of like the other actors on the show.

0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.239
<v Speaker 2>I slept on you, but like, but I was so

0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:31.200
<v Speaker 2>focused on getting my own stuff right and then rewatching

0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:34.639
<v Speaker 2>my scenes to learn because I didn't know anything about

0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:36.680
<v Speaker 2>being on camera, and so I would watch and learn

0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:38.480
<v Speaker 2>and be like, oh, I don't like that angle of me,

0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.280
<v Speaker 2>or I need to pay more attention when the camera

0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:43.919
<v Speaker 2>is there. I used to do this thing. This is

0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:46.640
<v Speaker 2>so silly, you know how, And so like you know how,

0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:49.199
<v Speaker 2>like like like like this, there's these two cameras on

0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:54.120
<v Speaker 2>this when they'll do coverage, so there's a camera, say

0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.560
<v Speaker 2>over your scene partner's left shoulder, and then another scene

0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:01.080
<v Speaker 2>or another another setup that put the camera between us

0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:03.840
<v Speaker 2>on the other side and I. For the first few seasons,

0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:07.119
<v Speaker 2>or maybe the first season or everybody, I would cheat

0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.240
<v Speaker 2>towards wherever the camera was, Like I was on stage,

0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:12.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, like on stage you cheat to the audience,

0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:14.720
<v Speaker 2>And so I saw I would see myself on TV

0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.240
<v Speaker 2>and I'd be like, none of this matches.

0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:18.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, You're like, why am I jumping around?

0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:22.399
<v Speaker 2>It's so embarrassing. I would like, yes, I was like,

0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:27.479
<v Speaker 2>why am I? Like my my face is towards the

0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:29.840
<v Speaker 2>camera no matter where it is. And now I know,

0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:31.960
<v Speaker 2>like you can't. You just can't do that. You have

0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.880
<v Speaker 2>to be real right and the camera's going to get you.

0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:38.000
<v Speaker 2>The camera knows. The camera's doing its job. You don't

0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:40.679
<v Speaker 2>know how to do it for it. It's really, I know,

0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:43.479
<v Speaker 2>it's an interesting relationship with the camera. I'd be interested

0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:47.600
<v Speaker 2>to hear what you think, because, like you know, sometimes

0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:49.480
<v Speaker 2>you think I want to forget the cameras there. I

0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:51.520
<v Speaker 2>want to ignore the camera. And then sometimes you're like,

0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:55.400
<v Speaker 2>oh no, the camera. Harrison Ford, who is on shrinking

0:22:56.560 --> 0:23:01.360
<v Speaker 2>his relationship with the camera is is more important than anything.

0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.080
<v Speaker 2>It's it's he's always talking to the camera. He talks

0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.760
<v Speaker 2>to the camera crew more than any of us, and

0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:11.560
<v Speaker 2>he's so he knows that camera as good as anyone

0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:13.960
<v Speaker 2>on the set. Oh I love it, and it's really

0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:18.119
<v Speaker 2>I learned so much watching the way that he deals

0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:20.719
<v Speaker 2>with the camera. Oh I love that because like, on

0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:22.199
<v Speaker 2>the one hand, you do. You want to pretend like

0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:25.760
<v Speaker 2>it's not there, but you can't. It's there. It's important.

0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:27.119
<v Speaker 2>You have to love the camera.

0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:30.199
<v Speaker 1>What I've really learned, and I hope to someday be

0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:32.720
<v Speaker 1>as good at it as he is. You know, I'm

0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:38.000
<v Speaker 1>not a person who necessarily understands what lens worth throwing up.

0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:40.880
<v Speaker 1>I know, if we're going wide or long, sure, that's

0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:45.199
<v Speaker 1>kind of it. What I have come to discover, And

0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:46.840
<v Speaker 1>I do spend a lot of I spend a lot

0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:48.359
<v Speaker 1>of time with my camera crews, and I spend a

0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:52.600
<v Speaker 1>lot of time with my props department. M My favorite

0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:55.840
<v Speaker 1>thing to figure out with my camera operators is the dance.

0:23:56.480 --> 0:23:59.400
<v Speaker 1>And what I've learned is that if we choreograph really

0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:03.920
<v Speaker 1>well together, it's not that I forget the camera's there.

0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:07.520
<v Speaker 1>It's that the camera becomes my partner and the dance

0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:11.479
<v Speaker 1>becomes something I don't even it's it's muscle memory. And

0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:14.520
<v Speaker 1>so what I'm thinking about particularly, I have this movie

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.520
<v Speaker 1>that I shot last year, which was an adaptation of

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:19.920
<v Speaker 1>a book. So you know, I was like really geeked

0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:30.000
<v Speaker 1>about that. We filmed in this really sort of the

0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:33.679
<v Speaker 1>house itself felt like a set. It was very austere

0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:38.000
<v Speaker 1>and sterile and modern and it but a location.

0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:39.320
<v Speaker 2>It was like a real location.

0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:44.080
<v Speaker 1>We were out in Utah. It really lent a certain

0:24:44.640 --> 0:24:47.080
<v Speaker 1>quality to the movie. And the director who we were

0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:49.000
<v Speaker 1>working with is a big el mold of our fan,

0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:52.520
<v Speaker 1>and we watched all these sequences of things that he

0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:57.160
<v Speaker 1>loved for the visuals. And there's a scene where you

0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:00.800
<v Speaker 1>get to know the house following my character. It Yes,

0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:02.760
<v Speaker 1>she comes home and she's doing these things and so

0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:05.200
<v Speaker 1>all the stuff, you know, where you put your bag

0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:07.200
<v Speaker 1>and where you toss your keys, and what you're doing.

0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:09.159
<v Speaker 1>And I want to come in with flowers because I

0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:10.680
<v Speaker 1>do this every Tuesday, and I go to get a

0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:13.520
<v Speaker 1>vaz And we did all of these things, and the

0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:16.920
<v Speaker 1>camera it was this one shot that had to move

0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:21.040
<v Speaker 1>all through you know, driveway up the thing in the

0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:23.879
<v Speaker 1>front door, into the living room which has art sculptures

0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:26.080
<v Speaker 1>in it, and then around the dining table into the

0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:30.200
<v Speaker 1>kitchen and all this stuff. And we had just gotten

0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:33.480
<v Speaker 1>everyone's photos and all the child's photos and family photos,

0:25:33.560 --> 0:25:36.080
<v Speaker 1>you know set and I remember at one point when

0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:38.000
<v Speaker 1>we were figuring out what I was going to be doing,

0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:39.480
<v Speaker 1>where the things were going to be going, saying to

0:25:39.520 --> 0:25:42.800
<v Speaker 1>the director and the camera operator who's on the study,

0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:44.800
<v Speaker 1>which for our friends at home, it's like this giant

0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:47.920
<v Speaker 1>it almost looks like a kevlar vest. Yeah yeah, and

0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:50.800
<v Speaker 1>it has this arm on it and the camera floats

0:25:50.800 --> 0:25:53.360
<v Speaker 1>around in the hands of the operator. And I looked

0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:55.000
<v Speaker 1>up and I said, oh, if I'm doing this thing

0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:56.600
<v Speaker 1>and then doing this thing, and do you want me

0:25:56.680 --> 0:26:00.400
<v Speaker 1>to throw a glance to one of the foot photos

0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:03.000
<v Speaker 1>so you can go off me and track across these

0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:05.399
<v Speaker 1>and then I can reach into frame to grab the

0:26:05.480 --> 0:26:07.359
<v Speaker 1>vase and we can come back and go into the kitchen.

0:26:07.880 --> 0:26:10.119
<v Speaker 1>And my and my camera operator and my director look

0:26:10.160 --> 0:26:12.119
<v Speaker 1>at each other and they go, don't you love a

0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:15.320
<v Speaker 1>technical act? And I was like, we're dancing, We're dancing,

0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:19.280
<v Speaker 1>and it was this great way for it, so cool thing,

0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:23.639
<v Speaker 1>And that's something I realized I've learned in all the

0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:26.240
<v Speaker 1>years since we were little babies on our first set,

0:26:26.520 --> 0:26:29.360
<v Speaker 1>right right then, I feel like I'm in on it.

0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:30.640
<v Speaker 1>And then I love.

0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:34.760
<v Speaker 2>Being aw you directed, right, Yeah, yeah, I like it. Yeah,

0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:37.480
<v Speaker 2>I bet, I bet you're good at that. That's such

0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:39.720
<v Speaker 2>an interesting because that was something I learned, like a

0:26:39.800 --> 0:26:45.040
<v Speaker 2>motivated pan you know, like you help that you help

0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:49.040
<v Speaker 2>them tell the story by looking. It's a very interesting

0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:52.360
<v Speaker 2>these did say this thing on Ugly Betty. If they

0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:56.200
<v Speaker 2>didn't know where to cut, they'd say, cut to America.

0:26:56.320 --> 0:26:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Like if they didn't know how to figure out what

0:26:57.760 --> 0:27:00.119
<v Speaker 2>the story was, what's the story in this moment the

0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:02.840
<v Speaker 2>edit room, they'd say, well, cut to America. She'll tell

0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:06.359
<v Speaker 2>the story. And there is something about that, like central character,

0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:09.639
<v Speaker 2>the one with the you know, the character with the

0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:11.719
<v Speaker 2>problem or the one who's trying to solve the problem.

0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:14.720
<v Speaker 2>If it's a good actor, and she was a very

0:27:14.920 --> 0:27:17.959
<v Speaker 2>very good actor, you could always cut to her and

0:27:18.000 --> 0:27:20.560
<v Speaker 2>she would have exactly the right emotion on her face

0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:24.080
<v Speaker 2>to help tell the story. I love, I know. It's

0:27:24.280 --> 0:27:27.440
<v Speaker 2>it's there's nothing nothing feels better than when someone who's

0:27:27.520 --> 0:27:30.960
<v Speaker 2>not an actor on a set says, you're helping me.

0:27:31.680 --> 0:27:33.720
<v Speaker 2>It's just like such a you know when when a

0:27:33.800 --> 0:27:36.320
<v Speaker 2>writer says it or the director says it. It's just

0:27:36.400 --> 0:27:39.760
<v Speaker 2>like because because we know what we can do, we

0:27:39.800 --> 0:27:41.880
<v Speaker 2>know what we're we know our thing, but we don't

0:27:41.920 --> 0:27:46.080
<v Speaker 2>always know their things. And and uh and and it's

0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:48.680
<v Speaker 2>the dance. It's really it's really cool. It's a really

0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:51.720
<v Speaker 2>like it's a really exciting thing because I also think

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:55.080
<v Speaker 2>what's cool about being on a set is on a

0:27:55.320 --> 0:27:58.680
<v Speaker 2>movie set, are a TV set, is people come from

0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:03.040
<v Speaker 2>all walks of life, yes, to end up doing uh production,

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:08.360
<v Speaker 2>and you know, maybe there's like a few paths that

0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:11.560
<v Speaker 2>people are chasing. Uh. You know, people go to Hollywood

0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:15.760
<v Speaker 2>to be an actor or a director, not necessarily to

0:28:15.840 --> 0:28:21.360
<v Speaker 2>be an ad or or you know, like a gaffer.

0:28:21.560 --> 0:28:24.480
<v Speaker 2>They might want to be a DP, and they are

0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:27.360
<v Speaker 2>working their way towards that, but they come from all

0:28:27.480 --> 0:28:32.239
<v Speaker 2>walks of life and uh, and they focus specifically on

0:28:32.400 --> 0:28:39.400
<v Speaker 2>their lane. And so there's there's all these experts. Everyone's

0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:43.680
<v Speaker 2>kind of an expert, and it's really yeah, it's there's

0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:47.560
<v Speaker 2>so much to learn and and everyone's so different and

0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:50.480
<v Speaker 2>so you really get like difference in the theater. It's

0:28:51.680 --> 0:28:56.080
<v Speaker 2>I guess in the theater people are more alike. Everyone

0:28:56.200 --> 0:28:58.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of like did plays in high school and and

0:28:58.760 --> 0:29:01.600
<v Speaker 2>now maybe they're stage manager or they're lighting designers or

0:29:01.600 --> 0:29:03.440
<v Speaker 2>the directors. But we all kind of came from the

0:29:03.480 --> 0:29:08.320
<v Speaker 2>same stuff. And that's also cool. That's also really fun.

0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:10.440
<v Speaker 2>And certainly in a musical you end up with musicians

0:29:10.480 --> 0:29:13.520
<v Speaker 2>and dancers and things like that, But on a film set,

0:29:13.560 --> 0:29:15.800
<v Speaker 2>you just never know where someone came from and what

0:29:15.880 --> 0:29:17.560
<v Speaker 2>they how they ended up there.

0:29:17.640 --> 0:29:19.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean when you start, you have your first

0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:22.200
<v Speaker 1>meeting with a UPM or a line producer, and you're like,

0:29:22.320 --> 0:29:27.240
<v Speaker 1>what do you do? You do the Excel spreadsheets, what

0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:31.840
<v Speaker 1>you know? And then there's someone who's just purely creative,

0:29:32.160 --> 0:29:34.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, the special effects makeup person, and you're like,

0:29:34.360 --> 0:29:36.560
<v Speaker 1>it's so weird that you guys are great friends and

0:29:36.600 --> 0:29:39.200
<v Speaker 1>you do this job together. But yeah, you're right, they

0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:44.440
<v Speaker 1>don't speak the same language at all. Did because you,

0:29:44.520 --> 0:29:46.440
<v Speaker 1>obviously and Becky are so close and you do the

0:29:46.520 --> 0:29:50.040
<v Speaker 1>rewatch show together still ugly, which I find to be hilarious.

0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:53.240
<v Speaker 1>That's off to you. How did you guys decide to

0:29:53.240 --> 0:29:55.240
<v Speaker 1>come back to it to do a podcast? And is

0:29:55.280 --> 0:29:57.960
<v Speaker 1>it because you have just been such great friends that

0:29:58.040 --> 0:29:59.120
<v Speaker 1>it felt like it made sense?

0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it felt inevitable. We have remained friends all these

0:30:03.080 --> 0:30:07.320
<v Speaker 2>years we did. We've done lots of things outside of

0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:10.360
<v Speaker 2>our time on agly Betty. When we did the show,

0:30:11.680 --> 0:30:14.320
<v Speaker 2>they spun us off to a web series. We had

0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:20.040
<v Speaker 2>a web series, Oh Crazy, and we had a podcast. Actually,

0:30:20.720 --> 0:30:23.320
<v Speaker 2>ABC came to us and they were like, in the

0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:27.640
<v Speaker 2>first of its time. We are venturing into the soundscape

0:30:27.640 --> 0:30:30.479
<v Speaker 2>and we would like to do a podcast, and they like,

0:30:30.720 --> 0:30:33.360
<v Speaker 2>we're like, what's a podcast? You know, it's like twenty

0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:35.800
<v Speaker 2>eighteen or two thousand and eight, what's a podcast? And

0:30:37.080 --> 0:30:39.160
<v Speaker 2>there were some other shows that had podcasts, but it

0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:41.560
<v Speaker 2>was like, you know, a marketing person would run it,

0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:44.080
<v Speaker 2>and they thought, well, maybe Becky and Michael would like

0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:46.800
<v Speaker 2>to do it. And we did an episode for every episode,

0:30:47.280 --> 0:30:50.920
<v Speaker 2>and we interviewed the whole cast, and we interviewed guest stars. Yeah,

0:30:50.920 --> 0:30:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I was crazy, and it was on ABC dot Com

0:30:53.040 --> 0:30:55.280
<v Speaker 2>and we would do it on our lunch breaks. They

0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:57.000
<v Speaker 2>would bring micro ones to our dressing rooms and we

0:30:57.040 --> 0:30:59.440
<v Speaker 2>would record this podcast. So it was kind of inevitable

0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:02.320
<v Speaker 2>that we would have eventually come back to it. But yes,

0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:05.440
<v Speaker 2>we stayed friends all these years. We did a cabaret

0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:08.280
<v Speaker 2>act together, we did a musical once. We did have

0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:10.160
<v Speaker 2>a succeed in business on we were trying together. We

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:13.120
<v Speaker 2>did we were supposed to do a pilot that got

0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:17.640
<v Speaker 2>canned because of the pandemic. We were literally like I

0:31:17.720 --> 0:31:20.280
<v Speaker 2>was literally like had a parking spot at Warner Brothers.

0:31:20.320 --> 0:31:22.800
<v Speaker 2>We were about to shoot this some hilarious multi camera

0:31:22.960 --> 0:31:25.480
<v Speaker 2>show where we played siblings, and then the pandemic happened,

0:31:25.520 --> 0:31:28.640
<v Speaker 2>and you know, it got pushed out and which is

0:31:29.280 --> 0:31:32.960
<v Speaker 2>totally understandable. And then when when then we saw people

0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:36.400
<v Speaker 2>were doing rewatch podcasts. I was actually watching The Sopranos

0:31:36.400 --> 0:31:39.120
<v Speaker 2>for the first time ever, which is the greatest show

0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:41.040
<v Speaker 2>ever read of. Oh my god, I'm just a creator

0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:45.880
<v Speaker 2>and I there's two rewatch podcasts from cast members of

0:31:45.880 --> 0:31:48.960
<v Speaker 2>that show. And so after a particularly you know, amazing episode,

0:31:49.040 --> 0:31:51.400
<v Speaker 2>I would like go listen, and I was like, this

0:31:51.440 --> 0:31:53.120
<v Speaker 2>is really fun. We should be doing this. And of

0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:57.440
<v Speaker 2>course Zach Braff does Zach Braff and Donald Fason have

0:31:57.520 --> 0:32:02.120
<v Speaker 2>their Scrubs rewatch podcast, yeah, which is so good. And

0:32:02.240 --> 0:32:07.600
<v Speaker 2>I was a guest because Zach directs Shrinking. He's one

0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:11.480
<v Speaker 2>of our directors on Shrinking, and he's brilliant and their show,

0:32:11.880 --> 0:32:14.320
<v Speaker 2>they got through all the episodes and now it's just

0:32:14.360 --> 0:32:17.040
<v Speaker 2>a show. Now it's just a podcast, and I was like,

0:32:17.120 --> 0:32:19.160
<v Speaker 2>that is so and it was so fun to be

0:32:19.280 --> 0:32:22.840
<v Speaker 2>on and I was just inspired, and so Becky and

0:32:22.880 --> 0:32:24.840
<v Speaker 2>I had talked about it over the years and then

0:32:25.920 --> 0:32:30.120
<v Speaker 2>finally just made sense. And it's hard to schedule because

0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:32.520
<v Speaker 2>we're both shooting. She's on Lincoln Lawyer for Netflix and

0:32:32.520 --> 0:32:36.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm shooting Shrinking. But but it's really special and really

0:32:36.680 --> 0:32:39.040
<v Speaker 2>fun to do, and we're getting to reconnect with our

0:32:39.160 --> 0:32:44.680
<v Speaker 2>old friends and watch the show. But it definitely and

0:32:44.720 --> 0:32:47.160
<v Speaker 2>the other thing that we didn't expect when we did

0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:50.920
<v Speaker 2>the first podcast was that people would send us questions.

0:32:50.920 --> 0:32:53.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure this happens to you too. Yeah, people would

0:32:53.480 --> 0:32:57.200
<v Speaker 2>ask for advice, and so it became kind of they

0:32:57.200 --> 0:33:00.360
<v Speaker 2>would like somehow, for some reason, Becky and I, who

0:33:00.520 --> 0:33:08.760
<v Speaker 2>were playing evil characters on the show, were somehow counselors

0:33:09.280 --> 0:33:11.840
<v Speaker 2>in their heads to these fans of the show. And

0:33:11.880 --> 0:33:14.520
<v Speaker 2>it still happens. We still, you know, this round of

0:33:14.520 --> 0:33:17.240
<v Speaker 2>this podcast, we're still getting people who want advice and stuff.

0:33:17.280 --> 0:33:22.200
<v Speaker 2>And obviously we're not like experts, but Becky's really clever

0:33:22.480 --> 0:33:24.920
<v Speaker 2>and we get we give some advice and give her

0:33:25.000 --> 0:33:26.640
<v Speaker 2>very advice. It's very fun.

0:33:27.080 --> 0:33:40.280
<v Speaker 1>And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. Sometimes I think, though,

0:33:40.600 --> 0:33:44.400
<v Speaker 1>what people really want is they just want an opinion

0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:47.160
<v Speaker 1>from a friend. And then we've played a character who

0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:51.120
<v Speaker 1>feels like a friend to someone You are in that character, Psyche.

0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:53.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's very sweet and in a way.

0:33:54.320 --> 0:33:56.640
<v Speaker 1>I did this recently was I did an episode of

0:33:56.720 --> 0:34:00.720
<v Speaker 1>Chelsea Handler's podcast and she takes callers, and I'm also like, look,

0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:03.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm not I don't have a degree, you know, a

0:34:03.960 --> 0:34:06.880
<v Speaker 1>health degree, but like I've certainly spent enough money in

0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:10.319
<v Speaker 1>therapy to feel like I have some good thoughts, you know,

0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:13.399
<v Speaker 1>after all these years. And sometimes I think it's nice

0:34:13.400 --> 0:34:17.560
<v Speaker 1>to get advice, not from necessarily an expert, just another

0:34:17.640 --> 0:34:19.239
<v Speaker 1>human who's trying to figure it.

0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:22.520
<v Speaker 2>Out, or an actual friend, you know, like a like

0:34:22.520 --> 0:34:25.279
<v Speaker 2>a friend in your head is sometimes easier, you know,

0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:31.120
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes when somebody's just getting the information face value,

0:34:31.200 --> 0:34:34.400
<v Speaker 2>it's I heard somebody say you want your friends to

0:34:35.880 --> 0:34:38.080
<v Speaker 2>listen and your therapist to tell you what to do,

0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:42.400
<v Speaker 2>and it's always the opposite. Yes, yes, And so like

0:34:42.480 --> 0:34:45.400
<v Speaker 2>maybe there's something about, you know, the friend in your

0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:46.760
<v Speaker 2>head that's in between.

0:34:47.000 --> 0:34:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Do you do you think there's an added element

0:34:51.920 --> 0:34:57.640
<v Speaker 1>of that because shrinking centers around yeah, therapy, Like, do

0:34:57.680 --> 0:35:00.319
<v Speaker 1>the interactions you have with people because of the text

0:35:00.400 --> 0:35:01.880
<v Speaker 1>of the show feel like they've changed?

0:35:02.560 --> 0:35:05.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, because my character is it's so funny. That's a

0:35:05.440 --> 0:35:09.400
<v Speaker 2>very funny question actually, because we I meet a lot

0:35:09.440 --> 0:35:15.200
<v Speaker 2>of therapists who watched the show now, and this so

0:35:15.400 --> 0:35:18.080
<v Speaker 2>my character on the show in this In the first season,

0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:22.000
<v Speaker 2>he was this very like plucky, happy, go lucky guy,

0:35:22.160 --> 0:35:25.520
<v Speaker 2>and he had this mantra, everything goes my way, and

0:35:25.760 --> 0:35:29.160
<v Speaker 2>I knew when I read the first episodes. I was like, Okay, well,

0:35:29.160 --> 0:35:32.799
<v Speaker 2>this is obviously upfront. I mean, obviously this isn't you know.

0:35:32.840 --> 0:35:35.399
<v Speaker 2>He's just saying this, This isn't true. He doesn't really

0:35:35.400 --> 0:35:37.239
<v Speaker 2>believe all. I mean, he might believe it, but it

0:35:37.280 --> 0:35:40.960
<v Speaker 2>can't be true. And I can tell already that eventually

0:35:41.000 --> 0:35:44.560
<v Speaker 2>we're going to peel away the layers and find a

0:35:44.600 --> 0:35:48.680
<v Speaker 2>real person underneath. It's not just like this. And then

0:35:48.680 --> 0:35:51.120
<v Speaker 2>in the second season, and they did. And I had

0:35:51.160 --> 0:35:52.840
<v Speaker 2>some amazing stuff in the first season, and then the

0:35:52.840 --> 0:35:56.520
<v Speaker 2>second season even better stuff. And at one point in

0:35:56.560 --> 0:35:59.720
<v Speaker 2>the second season, I'm going to fight with Jason Siegl's

0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:04.160
<v Speaker 2>character and I'm making something about myself and he was like,

0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:05.799
<v Speaker 2>are you really so much of a narcissist that you

0:36:05.800 --> 0:36:08.400
<v Speaker 2>can't see what's going on here? And I say, yes, Jimmy,

0:36:08.440 --> 0:36:10.760
<v Speaker 2>that's what narcissism is, having the courage to put yourself

0:36:10.760 --> 0:36:14.120
<v Speaker 2>above others. And he's like, that's not what narcissism is.

0:36:14.200 --> 0:36:15.640
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, that's such a funny joke. That's

0:36:15.680 --> 0:36:20.160
<v Speaker 2>so great. Yeah. And then and then occasionally people would say,

0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:23.759
<v Speaker 2>you know this guy's like Bill would be like, and

0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:26.200
<v Speaker 2>then you know, we keep we make sure we do

0:36:26.239 --> 0:36:27.799
<v Speaker 2>this line, but also say something else, you know, say

0:36:27.800 --> 0:36:30.080
<v Speaker 2>something you know that a narcissist would say in this moment.

0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:33.120
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, oh, okay, oh and interesting. And

0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:39.400
<v Speaker 2>then I watched the second season and I started to realize,

0:36:39.719 --> 0:36:45.360
<v Speaker 2>oh my gosh, my character is actually a narcissist. And

0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:47.520
<v Speaker 2>then I met a therapist who watches the show and

0:36:47.560 --> 0:36:49.120
<v Speaker 2>she was like, I love the show and I love

0:36:49.160 --> 0:36:50.759
<v Speaker 2>your character. I'm like, oh, thank you so much. And

0:36:50.800 --> 0:36:55.319
<v Speaker 2>she goes, he's such a narcissist, just like almost accusatory,

0:36:56.560 --> 0:36:59.799
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like this And then I was like, I've

0:36:59.800 --> 0:37:04.800
<v Speaker 2>been playing a narcissist without realizing it, and and I thought,

0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:07.080
<v Speaker 2>I was like this is It was fascinating because you know,

0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:11.560
<v Speaker 2>a narcissist doesn't know there, they don't know they're a narcissist,

0:37:11.719 --> 0:37:15.480
<v Speaker 2>and you actually you can't really tell them because that

0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:18.040
<v Speaker 2>they won't really hear it and they'll just deflect it.

0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:20.879
<v Speaker 2>I mean, honestly, just saying this out loud, maybe I

0:37:20.920 --> 0:37:23.480
<v Speaker 2>am in real life a narcissist and I would never

0:37:23.600 --> 0:37:25.759
<v Speaker 2>know it. It's so weird. It's like really heady to

0:37:25.800 --> 0:37:29.600
<v Speaker 2>think about. Yeah, but this character or not. But that's

0:37:29.640 --> 0:37:31.480
<v Speaker 2>all anyone talks about and said. They're like always talking

0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:32.960
<v Speaker 2>about how he's a narcissist. I'm like, oh my god,

0:37:33.000 --> 0:37:36.319
<v Speaker 2>I've been playing a little bit. But also I'm kind

0:37:36.360 --> 0:37:38.319
<v Speaker 2>of proud of it, like I've been doing it right.

0:37:38.960 --> 0:37:41.080
<v Speaker 1>That's really exciting. You're like, no, I really got into.

0:37:42.800 --> 0:37:46.440
<v Speaker 2>It right and not judging him and and it turns

0:37:46.440 --> 0:37:48.440
<v Speaker 2>out it works. But that was something I you know,

0:37:48.440 --> 0:37:51.680
<v Speaker 2>in drama school, I learned we would play villains, you know,

0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:54.000
<v Speaker 2>doing Richard the Third and they're like, we're like, but

0:37:54.080 --> 0:37:56.080
<v Speaker 2>this guy's terrible, and he says he's terrible. How am

0:37:56.080 --> 0:37:57.520
<v Speaker 2>I supposed to play this? And they're like, you can't

0:37:57.560 --> 0:38:00.960
<v Speaker 2>judge your characters. And so that was like one of

0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:03.520
<v Speaker 2>those fundamental things that I learned, don't judge your characters,

0:38:03.560 --> 0:38:07.800
<v Speaker 2>look at what you know, get inside of them and

0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:09.239
<v Speaker 2>and figure out why they do what they do and

0:38:09.239 --> 0:38:11.520
<v Speaker 2>all that, Ye, what makes them to Yeah, And the

0:38:11.520 --> 0:38:14.200
<v Speaker 2>writing is so good on shrinking that I just play

0:38:14.239 --> 0:38:16.040
<v Speaker 2>the role, you know, I just I just see what's there.

0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:17.359
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, Okay, this is when I think this

0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:21.319
<v Speaker 2>is the I'll be damned, I'm playing a narcissist all

0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:21.759
<v Speaker 2>this time.

0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:24.239
<v Speaker 1>But here's what I'll tell you, And this is what

0:38:24.320 --> 0:38:27.240
<v Speaker 1>I think is cool, because you not that you'll be shocked.

0:38:27.239 --> 0:38:30.000
<v Speaker 1>I love to ask my therapist a million questions about

0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:32.440
<v Speaker 1>how he does his job, and he's like, you're paying

0:38:32.440 --> 0:38:34.080
<v Speaker 1>me to ask me about and I'm like, yeah, I

0:38:34.120 --> 0:38:37.319
<v Speaker 1>have a question here, because you know, all the all

0:38:37.360 --> 0:38:39.920
<v Speaker 1>the articles now are about narcissism, and you know, when

0:38:39.960 --> 0:38:40.640
<v Speaker 1>you're trying to.

0:38:40.760 --> 0:38:42.560
<v Speaker 2>I can't imagine why we're all talking about, right.

0:38:42.680 --> 0:38:46.360
<v Speaker 1>No idea when you're trying to sort of disentangle yourself

0:38:47.239 --> 0:38:49.759
<v Speaker 1>from one. You do a lot of research saying this

0:38:49.840 --> 0:38:53.440
<v Speaker 1>for a friend, obviously, right, right, right, But I was like,

0:38:53.600 --> 0:38:57.520
<v Speaker 1>how how do people know and how do you deal

0:38:57.560 --> 0:39:02.040
<v Speaker 1>with it and how you know? Like is there never

0:39:02.120 --> 0:39:04.319
<v Speaker 1>a question for someone who has this thing of like

0:39:04.440 --> 0:39:07.560
<v Speaker 1>could it be me? Am I this? And my therapist goes,

0:39:07.640 --> 0:39:10.719
<v Speaker 1>if you've ever asked yourself if you're a narcissist, you're not?

0:39:10.920 --> 0:39:14.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh and i'ment all right, he said they would never

0:39:14.960 --> 0:39:17.200
<v Speaker 1>they would, you know, and it was this really funny thing.

0:39:17.719 --> 0:39:19.799
<v Speaker 1>And so maybe that's part of it for you, is

0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:22.480
<v Speaker 1>to realize, as you said, the writing is so good

0:39:23.000 --> 0:39:24.839
<v Speaker 1>that you're getting into the head of this person, and

0:39:24.880 --> 0:39:29.399
<v Speaker 1>because you're figuring out what motivates his behavior, you are

0:39:29.520 --> 0:39:33.080
<v Speaker 1>playing him as he's written. But even the fact that

0:39:33.120 --> 0:39:36.279
<v Speaker 1>you're asking the question means, don't worry, You're okay, You're

0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:38.400
<v Speaker 1>not too close to It's funny.

0:39:38.640 --> 0:39:43.160
<v Speaker 2>That's so funny. It's very interesting. Have you ever this

0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:48.040
<v Speaker 2>is a this is maybe a different podcast, but no, yeah,

0:39:48.200 --> 0:39:52.759
<v Speaker 2>kind of that. There's that thing like a narcissist, when

0:39:52.800 --> 0:39:56.840
<v Speaker 2>a narcissist rubs off on another person and they become

0:39:56.920 --> 0:40:03.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of like anti narcissist, where instead of making everything

0:40:03.480 --> 0:40:07.360
<v Speaker 2>about themselves, they assume nothing is about them.

0:40:07.880 --> 0:40:13.160
<v Speaker 1>Right, they become almost disembodied. Yes, yes, it's fascinating interesting.

0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:17.080
<v Speaker 2>It's this like consequence of being tied to a narcissism

0:40:17.520 --> 0:40:22.320
<v Speaker 2>where your existence becomes protecting yourself from them at all costs.

0:40:23.040 --> 0:40:26.080
<v Speaker 2>And it's actually like the like the opposite, and it's

0:40:26.120 --> 0:40:29.920
<v Speaker 2>it's still kind of narcissism, but it's like instead of

0:40:29.920 --> 0:40:31.520
<v Speaker 2>it all being like me, me, me, me me. It's

0:40:31.560 --> 0:40:34.160
<v Speaker 2>like no one, no one knows, you know, like, yes,

0:40:34.280 --> 0:40:38.040
<v Speaker 2>don't look at me, don't look at me, don't y yeah,

0:40:36.880 --> 0:40:37.560
<v Speaker 2>yeah I know.

0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:40.000
<v Speaker 1>And now a word from our sponsors who make this

0:40:40.080 --> 0:40:53.440
<v Speaker 1>show possible. I mean, listen, it's it's life stuff, right.

0:40:53.600 --> 0:40:57.439
<v Speaker 1>Our jobs are so cool and so crazy. How much

0:40:57.440 --> 0:40:59.440
<v Speaker 1>fun to go to work and have everything be so

0:40:59.480 --> 0:41:03.359
<v Speaker 1>funny And you're dealing with humor in the lens of

0:41:03.400 --> 0:41:08.799
<v Speaker 1>mental health, which I think is a dream. It's not

0:41:08.960 --> 0:41:12.840
<v Speaker 1>lost on me that the person I know you to

0:41:12.920 --> 0:41:16.080
<v Speaker 1>be has found this job in this moment, you know

0:41:16.520 --> 0:41:22.040
<v Speaker 1>that you are. You're gathering an audience in such a cool,

0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:29.400
<v Speaker 1>positive way. You are modeling really healthy masculinity and people,

0:41:29.719 --> 0:41:35.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, being human to each other. What what does

0:41:35.239 --> 0:41:37.640
<v Speaker 1>it sort of feel like to have this now? Because

0:41:37.680 --> 0:41:40.319
<v Speaker 1>you have been an advocate for so long, you have

0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:43.319
<v Speaker 1>stood up for the community for so long, you have

0:41:43.520 --> 0:41:48.240
<v Speaker 1>exemplified queer joy for so long in theater in the

0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:51.080
<v Speaker 1>pride plays in your life and your love and your

0:41:51.120 --> 0:41:55.120
<v Speaker 1>relationship and your work. Like and we are in a

0:41:55.160 --> 0:41:59.840
<v Speaker 1>really weird time where so much of the progress we

0:42:00.680 --> 0:42:04.759
<v Speaker 1>feels like it's being so violently erased, like, how are

0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:06.839
<v Speaker 1>you taking care of yourself? How are you holding onto

0:42:06.880 --> 0:42:07.360
<v Speaker 1>your joy?

0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:13.520
<v Speaker 2>It's so tiring, so exhausting. Yeah, well, I am heartened

0:42:13.520 --> 0:42:18.120
<v Speaker 2>by people that, you know, back in the day, even

0:42:18.160 --> 0:42:20.799
<v Speaker 2>when we were doing partners, there weren't many people who

0:42:20.880 --> 0:42:22.400
<v Speaker 2>were out of the closet.

0:42:22.520 --> 0:42:25.120
<v Speaker 1>Well especially not Yeah, no, you're right, I was about

0:42:25.120 --> 0:42:26.640
<v Speaker 1>to say, especially not a lot of men, but really

0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:27.560
<v Speaker 1>just not a lot of people.

0:42:27.719 --> 0:42:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean more women, but not a lot of people.

0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:34.960
<v Speaker 2>And and back then you still had to like make

0:42:35.000 --> 0:42:38.240
<v Speaker 2>a whole thing about it, even when it was obvious

0:42:38.320 --> 0:42:40.879
<v Speaker 2>that you know, you know, like nobody was surprised when

0:42:40.880 --> 0:42:44.640
<v Speaker 2>I came out, but you still kind of had to

0:42:45.120 --> 0:42:47.360
<v Speaker 2>because they were asking. I mean, I remember one of

0:42:47.360 --> 0:42:50.520
<v Speaker 2>my first ever red carpets for Ugly Betty. This guy

0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:53.919
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't talking about my sexuality yet, and this guy

0:42:53.920 --> 0:42:56.480
<v Speaker 2>on a red carpet said so are you out and

0:42:56.520 --> 0:42:59.680
<v Speaker 2>put a microphone in my face? And I was so

0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:02.200
<v Speaker 2>did exactly that I made exactly the face you just made,

0:43:02.280 --> 0:43:08.960
<v Speaker 2>like what what that? That question was so unfair. It's

0:43:09.160 --> 0:43:13.160
<v Speaker 2>just not and I sort of hemden had and said, oh, well,

0:43:13.320 --> 0:43:17.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm I don't talk about my sexuality. That was my

0:43:17.920 --> 0:43:21.600
<v Speaker 2>That was my line that day. And the guy printed

0:43:22.560 --> 0:43:28.400
<v Speaker 2>his question and my response and he he described my response,

0:43:29.800 --> 0:43:31.680
<v Speaker 2>so it was in print. I don't remember what what

0:43:31.719 --> 0:43:34.839
<v Speaker 2>the publication was, but he wrote my response like that.

0:43:34.920 --> 0:43:40.799
<v Speaker 2>I harumphed hemden had yes and then said, I don't

0:43:40.840 --> 0:43:43.719
<v Speaker 2>talk about my sexuality, which is just like you know,

0:43:43.880 --> 0:43:45.879
<v Speaker 2>and you you, I know you've been there too. There's

0:43:45.880 --> 0:43:48.960
<v Speaker 2>sometimes you get asked a question in an interview and

0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:51.640
<v Speaker 2>you can tell there they've already decided what they're going

0:43:51.680 --> 0:43:54.520
<v Speaker 2>to write. It doesn't really matter what you say. They've

0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:57.280
<v Speaker 2>already figured out what they're going to write. And especially

0:43:57.280 --> 0:43:59.040
<v Speaker 2>when you know, especially then, and especially when it came

0:43:59.080 --> 0:44:03.600
<v Speaker 2>to things like that, and so like, on the one hand,

0:44:03.719 --> 0:44:07.319
<v Speaker 2>it's so nice to not be alone anymore and to

0:44:07.400 --> 0:44:11.560
<v Speaker 2>know that there's this huge community of queer people in media.

0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:17.000
<v Speaker 2>The GLAD Awards was like, gosh, was that that came

0:44:17.040 --> 0:44:22.520
<v Speaker 2>at the perfect time because we are being bombarded and

0:44:22.680 --> 0:44:27.080
<v Speaker 2>especially you know since January of this year, like it's

0:44:27.160 --> 0:44:30.640
<v Speaker 2>just NonStop, relentless. We have to we all have to

0:44:30.680 --> 0:44:35.919
<v Speaker 2>stay so on top of things. And everybody went after

0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:38.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean everybody I know wanted to like go on

0:44:38.440 --> 0:44:42.480
<v Speaker 2>a news diet and did some of them went on

0:44:42.480 --> 0:44:46.319
<v Speaker 2>the news fast and were just like can't you have

0:44:46.360 --> 0:44:48.120
<v Speaker 2>to sort of keep up with things, And it's just

0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:54.440
<v Speaker 2>relent it's relentless. But to go into a room like

0:44:54.480 --> 0:44:57.719
<v Speaker 2>the GLAD Awards that's filled to the brim with people

0:44:57.760 --> 0:45:02.720
<v Speaker 2>who've done the work and live there, live there truths,

0:45:02.760 --> 0:45:06.239
<v Speaker 2>and and and not not only that, but they ad

0:45:06.560 --> 0:45:09.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, they they are they are all all everyone

0:45:09.080 --> 0:45:12.279
<v Speaker 2>in that room is an advocate. That was That was

0:45:12.440 --> 0:45:14.880
<v Speaker 2>very special and that helped. That was one of those

0:45:14.920 --> 0:45:18.440
<v Speaker 2>like healing, wonderful moments. And you know, and I've I've

0:45:18.440 --> 0:45:20.319
<v Speaker 2>felt it on in a few different events that I've

0:45:20.360 --> 0:45:26.960
<v Speaker 2>been host of or MC of, and and there is

0:45:27.000 --> 0:45:29.719
<v Speaker 2>a sense that you do have to acknowledge what's going on,

0:45:31.160 --> 0:45:33.680
<v Speaker 2>but you also are allowed to We're all, I think

0:45:33.719 --> 0:45:37.520
<v Speaker 2>we are also allowed to put it aside and celebrate

0:45:37.560 --> 0:45:39.040
<v Speaker 2>what is working. And that was the thing about the

0:45:39.080 --> 0:45:41.080
<v Speaker 2>GLAD Awards that I kept going back to when we

0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:45.840
<v Speaker 2>did that, like, yeah, yeah, there's a dumpster fire happening

0:45:45.960 --> 0:45:48.240
<v Speaker 2>and and all of our stuff is in the dumpster,

0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:50.360
<v Speaker 2>All of our belongings are in the dumpster.

0:45:50.440 --> 0:45:51.880
<v Speaker 1>Every precious to us.

0:45:52.000 --> 0:45:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes, is in the dumpster, but there's also great work

0:45:55.600 --> 0:46:02.240
<v Speaker 2>being done and constantly, and here's proof, here's here's here's

0:46:02.960 --> 0:46:08.120
<v Speaker 2>millions of awards with billions of nominees to prove that

0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:10.960
<v Speaker 2>we've got a lot of great work happening and a

0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:14.160
<v Speaker 2>lot of a lot of we are moving the needle

0:46:14.320 --> 0:46:15.280
<v Speaker 2>in so many ways.

0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:17.319
<v Speaker 1>I think that's what it is. Though, when you said

0:46:17.360 --> 0:46:21.160
<v Speaker 1>it's just so exhausting, Yeah, it's exhausting to have to

0:46:21.200 --> 0:46:24.120
<v Speaker 1>put out the same fire over and over again. Like

0:46:24.120 --> 0:46:26.719
<v Speaker 1>we've done this, We've put it out. Can we not

0:46:27.719 --> 0:46:30.080
<v Speaker 1>keep lighting the fire? What is the point? Why are

0:46:30.120 --> 0:46:31.320
<v Speaker 1>you trying to burn people?

0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Right?

0:46:32.400 --> 0:46:37.520
<v Speaker 1>You know? And the sort of cognitive dissonance of it.

0:46:37.600 --> 0:46:40.960
<v Speaker 1>They want to come for our community in such a way,

0:46:42.239 --> 0:46:45.120
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, the call is coming from inside the house, y'all,

0:46:45.600 --> 0:46:48.200
<v Speaker 1>Like you go clean up your side of the street.

0:46:48.320 --> 0:46:51.439
<v Speaker 1>We're set here. Yeah, you know, I cracked a joke

0:46:51.480 --> 0:46:53.520
<v Speaker 1>about it recently where I was like, none of y'all

0:46:53.520 --> 0:46:55.040
<v Speaker 1>have you know, none of y'all have ever had a

0:46:55.040 --> 0:46:57.279
<v Speaker 1>problem of a woman like me is married to an

0:46:57.320 --> 0:47:00.840
<v Speaker 1>adulterer or white collar criminal or like what ever you

0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:02.360
<v Speaker 1>have a problem of a woman like me wants to

0:47:02.400 --> 0:47:05.120
<v Speaker 1>be married to another woman, Like, don't the girlies deserve

0:47:05.160 --> 0:47:07.000
<v Speaker 1>the chance to be just as miserable as the rest

0:47:07.000 --> 0:47:10.880
<v Speaker 1>of you, Like, come on, you know everybody's going to

0:47:10.920 --> 0:47:13.719
<v Speaker 1>pay their taxes unless you're a billionaire, go criticize them.

0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:18.200
<v Speaker 2>Like the whole thing is just so cuckoo to me.

0:47:19.120 --> 0:47:20.799
<v Speaker 1>But I think you're right. I think to be in

0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:26.560
<v Speaker 1>a room where people are celebrated for exactly who they

0:47:26.560 --> 0:47:28.880
<v Speaker 1>are and exactly what they're doing with it, you know,

0:47:29.560 --> 0:47:32.920
<v Speaker 1>and for what they're able to do despite the fire.

0:47:33.280 --> 0:47:35.439
<v Speaker 2>Yes, right, that's that part.

0:47:35.560 --> 0:47:37.839
<v Speaker 1>It's a really big deal. And it was also just

0:47:37.880 --> 0:47:40.799
<v Speaker 1>the most fun to watch you crush and host, and

0:47:41.360 --> 0:47:45.759
<v Speaker 1>I mean the split, the split Glinda and alphaba alp

0:47:46.880 --> 0:47:52.120
<v Speaker 1>absolutely did you hear me scream? I didn't laugh, I screamed,

0:47:52.280 --> 0:47:58.480
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, shut up, Soviia on stage. All

0:47:58.520 --> 0:48:01.279
<v Speaker 1>the moments were crushed.

0:48:01.600 --> 0:48:09.040
<v Speaker 2>I've hosted enough now to know that, uh, fashion is

0:48:09.040 --> 0:48:11.680
<v Speaker 2>your friend. When you're hosting something, it does have to

0:48:11.719 --> 0:48:14.560
<v Speaker 2>work for you because we've all watched award shows where

0:48:14.560 --> 0:48:18.320
<v Speaker 2>a host comes out looking normal and then bombs their jokes.

0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:21.239
<v Speaker 2>And if you come out looking great, that's your first

0:48:21.360 --> 0:48:24.000
<v Speaker 2>joke in the bag. You look great. I don't need

0:48:24.040 --> 0:48:25.759
<v Speaker 2>I don't need to get a laugh. Now I look great.

0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:29.320
<v Speaker 2>The work is done. So shout out to Christian Seriano

0:48:29.400 --> 0:48:32.480
<v Speaker 2>who designed that look, made that thing.

0:48:32.640 --> 0:48:35.240
<v Speaker 1>Your carpet fit was Charles Harbuson.

0:48:34.840 --> 0:48:40.040
<v Speaker 2>When oh wow. Shout out to Michael Fusco, my stylist.

0:48:40.600 --> 0:48:41.919
<v Speaker 2>I had seven looks that night.

0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:42.759
<v Speaker 1>You crushed.

0:48:43.040 --> 0:48:44.000
<v Speaker 2>It was really fun.

0:48:44.040 --> 0:48:46.200
<v Speaker 1>I wanted all of it. It's like, where did that

0:48:46.400 --> 0:48:48.520
<v Speaker 1>suit also come? Fringe, give it to me?

0:48:49.160 --> 0:48:53.279
<v Speaker 2>That one so good? And then oh yeah it was.

0:48:53.400 --> 0:48:55.520
<v Speaker 2>It was a really special night and so many, so many,

0:48:55.800 --> 0:48:58.680
<v Speaker 2>so many cool people. And also you know you've been

0:48:58.719 --> 0:49:02.960
<v Speaker 2>at that venue before backstage for other I mean I've

0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:06.280
<v Speaker 2>been lots of different award shows. That backstage is so tiny,

0:49:06.600 --> 0:49:09.280
<v Speaker 2>the room is not big, and it can get tense

0:49:09.600 --> 0:49:13.120
<v Speaker 2>and awkward back there, and like people not wanting to

0:49:13.200 --> 0:49:15.200
<v Speaker 2>associate or not want you know, it's like this these

0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:18.520
<v Speaker 2>people's these people's people are keeping them away from these

0:49:18.520 --> 0:49:20.440
<v Speaker 2>people's people, and like that kind of thing that happens

0:49:20.440 --> 0:49:24.040
<v Speaker 2>backstage is weird, weird, creepy show busy things. Not at

0:49:24.040 --> 0:49:26.440
<v Speaker 2>the Clout Awards, it's a party. At the Cloud Awards,

0:49:26.480 --> 0:49:30.399
<v Speaker 2>it was and everyone was bigger because the everyone's looks

0:49:30.440 --> 0:49:34.799
<v Speaker 2>were bigger, so there was even less space and more

0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:39.759
<v Speaker 2>skin and it was and no tension backstage at all.

0:49:39.800 --> 0:49:42.040
<v Speaker 2>I was back there the whole night. There was no tension.

0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:44.920
<v Speaker 2>We were cramped, it was hot, but we loved it

0:49:44.960 --> 0:49:47.879
<v Speaker 2>was so we loved being there. Everyone loved being there

0:49:47.880 --> 0:49:50.840
<v Speaker 2>and was like supporting. And I think it was because

0:49:50.840 --> 0:49:53.280
<v Speaker 2>we all knew we'd done the work. Nobody was worried.

0:49:53.680 --> 0:49:55.640
<v Speaker 2>There was no like stress. It was no lick did

0:49:55.640 --> 0:49:58.520
<v Speaker 2>I did I? It was all, oh, we did? You

0:49:58.600 --> 0:50:01.600
<v Speaker 2>did I did? We've all all done the work. Everyone did,

0:50:01.920 --> 0:50:05.120
<v Speaker 2>yeah and have and now we can we can you

0:50:05.160 --> 0:50:10.120
<v Speaker 2>know we can. We can handle this. And that's something

0:50:10.160 --> 0:50:13.000
<v Speaker 2>to say. There's something like I feel that way about

0:50:13.080 --> 0:50:19.959
<v Speaker 2>really all the minority groups, like like everyone's everyone's had

0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:24.640
<v Speaker 2>to deal with this already. So this new round of

0:50:25.080 --> 0:50:29.719
<v Speaker 2>hate it feels different. It definitely this, this this administration

0:50:29.760 --> 0:50:33.560
<v Speaker 2>feels different than the previous administration or his first administration,

0:50:33.600 --> 0:50:39.440
<v Speaker 2>I should say. But even then, we've been through this.

0:50:39.600 --> 0:50:43.239
<v Speaker 2>We know hate. We faced hate, yeah, even if it

0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:47.319
<v Speaker 2>wasn't head on. We know what hate is meant for us,

0:50:48.120 --> 0:50:51.680
<v Speaker 2>and we are already stronger for we already have like

0:50:51.760 --> 0:50:54.280
<v Speaker 2>the thick skins. You're the one's without the thick skins.

0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:58.239
<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, well, I think especially because we've we've

0:50:58.280 --> 0:51:00.280
<v Speaker 1>been through this for so long. I mean I think about,

0:51:00.280 --> 0:51:02.799
<v Speaker 1>you know, ten years ago, us being at you know,

0:51:02.880 --> 0:51:05.239
<v Speaker 1>Pride Marches. I think about growing up going to them

0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:10.400
<v Speaker 1>with my family, you know, we know the playbook now,

0:51:10.960 --> 0:51:14.440
<v Speaker 1>and I think the some of the sadness of the

0:51:14.520 --> 0:51:18.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, these these seeds they've sown, like the lies

0:51:18.800 --> 0:51:21.160
<v Speaker 1>have come home to roosts. And it's like every accusation

0:51:21.280 --> 0:51:24.760
<v Speaker 1>you make, especially about queer people, is actually you admitting

0:51:24.800 --> 0:51:28.200
<v Speaker 1>something you've done that you want people to think we've done.

0:51:28.480 --> 0:51:30.640
<v Speaker 1>Because what your spiritual advisor is going to go to

0:51:30.680 --> 0:51:34.800
<v Speaker 1>prison for assaulting a twelve year old Yes, mister president,

0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:38.839
<v Speaker 1>like you were besties with Jeffrey Epstein, Like bro, I

0:51:38.840 --> 0:51:40.120
<v Speaker 1>hate to break it to you, guys, but like the

0:51:40.400 --> 0:51:42.880
<v Speaker 1>receipts are out right and it's not us. And it's

0:51:42.960 --> 0:51:45.920
<v Speaker 1>why I love how viral that that hashtag not a

0:51:46.000 --> 0:51:49.399
<v Speaker 1>drag queen keeps going for years because they're like, oh look,

0:51:49.400 --> 0:51:53.000
<v Speaker 1>another one still has never been a drag queen. Guys.

0:51:53.400 --> 0:51:58.320
<v Speaker 1>We're fun, y'all, y'all. Y'all need to you need to

0:51:58.360 --> 0:52:00.440
<v Speaker 1>clean house on your end of the things. We will

0:52:00.480 --> 0:52:04.920
<v Speaker 1>just be at the gladderwards by Michael, You're believe forever.

0:52:05.120 --> 0:52:07.839
<v Speaker 2>And also that you think about like you really think

0:52:07.880 --> 0:52:10.719
<v Speaker 2>that we we're just that we're doing this because of you.

0:52:10.719 --> 0:52:13.200
<v Speaker 2>You think that we we we we are queer because

0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:16.200
<v Speaker 2>of you, that this has anything to do with don't

0:52:16.239 --> 0:52:20.600
<v Speaker 2>you realize that we they're narcissists. Well, that's that's right exactly.

0:52:21.600 --> 0:52:25.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they think it's all about them. It's it's

0:52:25.040 --> 0:52:27.880
<v Speaker 2>all about this is our thing, this is this is

0:52:27.920 --> 0:52:29.880
<v Speaker 2>about us, this is who we are, and this is

0:52:30.120 --> 0:52:32.120
<v Speaker 2>and we did this because we didn't have a choice,

0:52:32.680 --> 0:52:33.640
<v Speaker 2>because we are this.

0:52:34.280 --> 0:52:37.919
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think a lot of them forget and again

0:52:37.960 --> 0:52:40.040
<v Speaker 1>this is probably why they're trying to ban all the books, right,

0:52:40.200 --> 0:52:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Like the people who ban books are never on the

0:52:42.080 --> 0:52:44.280
<v Speaker 1>right side of history, to be clear, But they're trying

0:52:44.320 --> 0:52:46.240
<v Speaker 1>to ban all of the books because they don't want

0:52:46.239 --> 0:52:48.759
<v Speaker 1>people to know that pride started as a protest right,

0:52:49.840 --> 0:52:54.040
<v Speaker 1>that that the fabulousness was born of struggle, that it

0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:59.120
<v Speaker 1>was literally radical to be seen in public as you are.

0:53:00.120 --> 0:53:03.760
<v Speaker 1>So are people chose to be seen in the best

0:53:03.760 --> 0:53:06.279
<v Speaker 1>and biggest and brightest ways because they knew they could

0:53:06.280 --> 0:53:09.520
<v Speaker 1>get killed for it, right, And if people don't know that,

0:53:11.480 --> 0:53:14.200
<v Speaker 1>they don't understand how actually revolutionary it can be to

0:53:14.200 --> 0:53:14.840
<v Speaker 1>me yourself.

0:53:15.040 --> 0:53:16.560
<v Speaker 2>If they don't know that, and if they don't like

0:53:16.960 --> 0:53:19.040
<v Speaker 2>do the work to learn that, then they just believe

0:53:19.080 --> 0:53:22.360
<v Speaker 2>whatever someone tells them, and they say that it's bad.

0:53:23.000 --> 0:53:25.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and then they also prot then no one cares

0:53:25.800 --> 0:53:27.600
<v Speaker 1>what you're sleeping with, and like, well, y'all are the

0:53:27.600 --> 0:53:30.560
<v Speaker 1>ones asking people live on camera on red carpets.

0:53:30.680 --> 0:53:31.880
<v Speaker 2>I know, I know, trying to.

0:53:31.880 --> 0:53:33.720
<v Speaker 1>Volunteer that information you're asking.

0:53:34.000 --> 0:53:36.680
<v Speaker 2>You made us say it. Hello. Somebody responded to a

0:53:36.719 --> 0:53:39.799
<v Speaker 2>tweet of mine or an expost of mine that they

0:53:39.840 --> 0:53:45.520
<v Speaker 2>said something like basically to the tune of don't rub

0:53:45.560 --> 0:53:47.439
<v Speaker 2>it in your faces. You don't see straight people coming

0:53:47.440 --> 0:53:49.520
<v Speaker 2>out and saying I'm straight.

0:53:49.520 --> 0:53:50.760
<v Speaker 1>Like have you ever seen a movie?

0:53:51.080 --> 0:53:53.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? And almost like you do you know what a

0:53:53.440 --> 0:53:57.440
<v Speaker 2>rom com is. You're also disproving both of your points

0:53:57.440 --> 0:54:02.080
<v Speaker 2>with this very message. You're asking me to be like you, yeah,

0:54:02.080 --> 0:54:03.759
<v Speaker 2>and you're claiming your straightness.

0:54:04.120 --> 0:54:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Yes.

0:54:04.880 --> 0:54:08.400
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I guess it's so.

0:54:08.840 --> 0:54:12.320
<v Speaker 1>When people really were bombarding me when I started dating

0:54:12.320 --> 0:54:14.160
<v Speaker 1>my partner, and they were like, well, what are you?

0:54:14.640 --> 0:54:16.440
<v Speaker 1>How do you identify? What is the word? And I

0:54:16.440 --> 0:54:17.960
<v Speaker 1>was like, has no one paid attention to any of

0:54:17.960 --> 0:54:20.120
<v Speaker 1>the beautiful women I have kissed on both film and

0:54:20.239 --> 0:54:24.120
<v Speaker 1>Elias for the last twenty years. No one's been paying attention,

0:54:25.080 --> 0:54:27.000
<v Speaker 1>you know. And then I loved that. Meant much of

0:54:27.040 --> 0:54:29.040
<v Speaker 1>the lesbian internet was like, we all knew you weren't

0:54:29.080 --> 0:54:32.040
<v Speaker 1>just acting on easy. I was like, thank you, ladies, thank.

0:54:31.880 --> 0:54:32.880
<v Speaker 2>You for seeing me.

0:54:34.040 --> 0:54:35.640
<v Speaker 1>This is always where I have been seen.

0:54:36.080 --> 0:54:39.520
<v Speaker 2>They were happy to claim they were very happy, welcome you.

0:54:40.640 --> 0:54:43.200
<v Speaker 1>So happy to officially be home though it's been home

0:54:43.239 --> 0:54:49.640
<v Speaker 1>for so long, when to be seen is so special?

0:54:49.960 --> 0:54:52.560
<v Speaker 1>And I had like a very you know, I get

0:54:52.640 --> 0:54:56.160
<v Speaker 1>very emotional when people that I love are happy and

0:54:56.440 --> 0:54:59.680
<v Speaker 1>watching you win the critics choice ward, I was like, y,

0:55:00.000 --> 0:55:01.359
<v Speaker 1>I'm just so amped for you.

0:55:01.840 --> 0:55:02.239
<v Speaker 2>Thank you?

0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Was it because you love the show and because you

0:55:06.080 --> 0:55:09.840
<v Speaker 1>love the material and and you know the whole gang

0:55:09.920 --> 0:55:14.439
<v Speaker 1>that puts it together and it's it's the critics choice.

0:55:14.480 --> 0:55:16.600
<v Speaker 1>It's like, to me, it feels as cool as maybe sag.

0:55:17.000 --> 0:55:21.080
<v Speaker 1>It really does feel like peers, right? Was it? Was

0:55:21.120 --> 0:55:22.319
<v Speaker 1>that a really special one?

0:55:22.960 --> 0:55:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? And interesting That's an interesting comparison because obviously SAG

0:55:26.719 --> 0:55:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Awards is voted on by actors. Yeah, so that's you know,

0:55:30.680 --> 0:55:36.640
<v Speaker 2>that's a very satisfying nomination or win. But the critics,

0:55:37.360 --> 0:55:41.239
<v Speaker 2>critics choice. The critics they're watching everything, that's it. They

0:55:41.280 --> 0:55:43.600
<v Speaker 2>see everything but the keenest eye.

0:55:43.880 --> 0:55:44.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, yeah.

0:55:44.760 --> 0:55:48.680
<v Speaker 2>And to think that they watched what I did and

0:55:48.719 --> 0:55:52.080
<v Speaker 2>said we like that. I mean obviously, like you know,

0:55:52.239 --> 0:55:57.080
<v Speaker 2>we're all conditioned to think reviews don't matter, and it's

0:55:57.200 --> 0:55:59.360
<v Speaker 2>and it's and of course sometimes it's true and sometimes

0:55:59.360 --> 0:56:01.640
<v Speaker 2>it's not. But like it is part of the industry.

0:56:01.719 --> 0:56:07.839
<v Speaker 2>I mean it is. Any art will eventually be dissected

0:56:08.320 --> 0:56:12.360
<v Speaker 2>and criticized, good and good or bad, and so like

0:56:12.400 --> 0:56:14.240
<v Speaker 2>it is, it is part. It is part of the industry.

0:56:14.239 --> 0:56:16.440
<v Speaker 2>We all have to accept it, whether you read reviews

0:56:16.480 --> 0:56:19.520
<v Speaker 2>or not. I don't actually read reviews. Well you're not

0:56:19.520 --> 0:56:22.279
<v Speaker 2>trying to make yourself crazy, right, Well yeah, because then

0:56:22.320 --> 0:56:24.640
<v Speaker 2>you're like, okay, well do I do what they want

0:56:24.680 --> 0:56:25.839
<v Speaker 2>me to do? Or do I do what they want

0:56:25.840 --> 0:56:27.200
<v Speaker 2>me to do or do what I think I should do?

0:56:27.239 --> 0:56:31.840
<v Speaker 2>And but to know they're watching and smelling when I

0:56:31.840 --> 0:56:37.040
<v Speaker 2>stepped in that was like really, really gratifying and super surprising.

0:56:37.080 --> 0:56:39.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean I wasn't. I was not. I didn't know

0:56:39.800 --> 0:56:41.839
<v Speaker 2>it just you know. My publicist texted me that day

0:56:41.880 --> 0:56:43.319
<v Speaker 2>and she said, you just got nominated for a Critics

0:56:43.440 --> 0:56:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Choice Award. And I was like, what what that's today?

0:56:47.280 --> 0:56:50.520
<v Speaker 2>This is happening. I had no idea. And then we

0:56:50.560 --> 0:56:55.520
<v Speaker 2>went and my sister was my date. And before it

0:56:55.560 --> 0:56:59.960
<v Speaker 2>was the night before the Critics Choice posted some video

0:57:00.280 --> 0:57:03.360
<v Speaker 2>of you know, like we're getting the room ready, and

0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:06.440
<v Speaker 2>it was like like quick cuts of the seats with

0:57:06.480 --> 0:57:09.760
<v Speaker 2>the pictures of the actors, you know, home board exactly,

0:57:10.000 --> 0:57:12.279
<v Speaker 2>and I was one of them. And I was like,

0:57:12.360 --> 0:57:16.800
<v Speaker 2>whoa alongside big stars, Like it was like Angelina Jelle

0:57:17.040 --> 0:57:19.520
<v Speaker 2>and to me Moore and Michael Ury. And I was like,

0:57:19.760 --> 0:57:22.320
<v Speaker 2>what is happening? And that was the first moment I

0:57:22.360 --> 0:57:26.640
<v Speaker 2>was like whoa, I'm in the I'm in the video. Hey.

0:57:27.040 --> 0:57:28.720
<v Speaker 2>And then we sat down and my sister was like,

0:57:28.760 --> 0:57:30.200
<v Speaker 2>are you so nervous? And I was like, no, I'm

0:57:30.240 --> 0:57:31.680
<v Speaker 2>not nervus. I'm not going to win. This is just

0:57:31.760 --> 0:57:33.080
<v Speaker 2>that we're just gonna have a lovely night. I'm not

0:57:33.120 --> 0:57:36.280
<v Speaker 2>gonna win, and she's like, I think you might, and

0:57:36.320 --> 0:57:38.360
<v Speaker 2>that was when I was like, whoa, Laura thinks I

0:57:38.440 --> 0:57:42.520
<v Speaker 2>might and she doesn't know anything. If you think I'm might,

0:57:42.600 --> 0:57:45.720
<v Speaker 2>if she thinks I'm might, truly yes and uh. And

0:57:45.760 --> 0:57:48.120
<v Speaker 2>it reminded me actually have another moment when my when

0:57:48.160 --> 0:57:51.600
<v Speaker 2>my mother said, my because it's so easy to talk

0:57:51.600 --> 0:57:54.720
<v Speaker 2>yourself out of something. Yeah, it's so so easy. And

0:57:54.760 --> 0:57:58.000
<v Speaker 2>when I was when I was in community college, I

0:57:58.000 --> 0:57:59.840
<v Speaker 2>went to community college for a year out of high school,

0:57:59.840 --> 0:58:03.120
<v Speaker 2>becau I had terrible grades and and I and I

0:58:03.160 --> 0:58:05.440
<v Speaker 2>was trying. I was like change. I was sort of

0:58:05.440 --> 0:58:07.640
<v Speaker 2>like going through a transition. I thought I wanted to

0:58:07.640 --> 0:58:09.320
<v Speaker 2>be a drama teacher. And then I was like, maybe

0:58:09.320 --> 0:58:10.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm good at acting, maybe I could be an actor,

0:58:10.960 --> 0:58:17.000
<v Speaker 2>and and I was like maybe ya ya YadA. But

0:58:17.040 --> 0:58:20.080
<v Speaker 2>then I had a teacher at this community college urged

0:58:20.120 --> 0:58:23.320
<v Speaker 2>me to audition for Juilliard. And I was like, Okay,

0:58:23.360 --> 0:58:25.080
<v Speaker 2>I'll do whatever you say. I'll do whatever you think.

0:58:25.360 --> 0:58:28.000
<v Speaker 2>But I'm perfectly happy at my community college and this

0:58:28.080 --> 0:58:30.320
<v Speaker 2>is this is what I want to do. And my

0:58:30.400 --> 0:58:33.160
<v Speaker 2>parents were like, how are we going to pay for Juilliard?

0:58:34.160 --> 0:58:36.200
<v Speaker 2>It's so expensive, we don't have that kind of money.

0:58:36.240 --> 0:58:38.400
<v Speaker 2>And I was like guys, I'm not going to get in.

0:58:38.520 --> 0:58:39.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm just doing this because I think it'll be a

0:58:39.960 --> 0:58:43.040
<v Speaker 2>good experience. And my mom goes, I think you might.

0:58:44.760 --> 0:58:47.120
<v Speaker 2>And it was those two I'll never forget. Those two

0:58:47.160 --> 0:58:52.240
<v Speaker 2>moments were really I talked myself out of a possibility

0:58:52.920 --> 0:58:57.520
<v Speaker 2>both of those times, and my family kind of showed me.

0:58:58.360 --> 0:59:01.480
<v Speaker 2>And it, I mean obviously, like one, by the time

0:59:02.400 --> 0:59:04.640
<v Speaker 2>they said my name of the Critic's Choice Awards, the

0:59:04.720 --> 0:59:06.840
<v Speaker 2>voting had been done, and it was nothing I could do.

0:59:06.960 --> 0:59:09.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I you know, there's nothing you can really do.

0:59:11.040 --> 0:59:13.320
<v Speaker 2>But it's certainly when I auditioned for Juilliard with my

0:59:13.400 --> 0:59:17.080
<v Speaker 2>mom's confidence, that helped, you know, and my mom's not

0:59:17.120 --> 0:59:20.800
<v Speaker 2>in the business. My mom doesn't know, but she watched

0:59:20.800 --> 0:59:22.760
<v Speaker 2>me and she thought I was good, and she could

0:59:22.840 --> 0:59:27.280
<v Speaker 2>see the other people were responding to me, and and

0:59:27.320 --> 0:59:30.840
<v Speaker 2>she knew sometimes she knew yeah, yeah, really cool. Yeah

0:59:30.840 --> 0:59:33.800
<v Speaker 2>it was cool. So it's uh, yeah, it's it's there's

0:59:33.800 --> 0:59:37.320
<v Speaker 2>something about that, Like obviously all we do is in

0:59:37.440 --> 0:59:39.360
<v Speaker 2>order to be seen. That's when we got into this.

0:59:39.440 --> 0:59:42.360
<v Speaker 2>We wanted to like make stories and have people look

0:59:42.400 --> 0:59:46.080
<v Speaker 2>at them. But yeah, and I know that people are

0:59:46.160 --> 0:59:50.280
<v Speaker 2>seeing me, but to be seen is sort of different.

0:59:50.280 --> 0:59:54.120
<v Speaker 2>They they they're saying, I get it, I get what

0:59:54.160 --> 0:59:57.000
<v Speaker 2>you're doing and I like it. And that was that

0:59:57.080 --> 0:59:57.840
<v Speaker 2>was very gratifying.

0:59:57.960 --> 1:00:01.360
<v Speaker 1>That's so nice. It's such a nice valid Yeah, you know,

1:00:01.400 --> 1:00:04.680
<v Speaker 1>it feels like a healthy, a healthy version of that too.

1:00:05.280 --> 1:00:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Do the does the work you do with the Pride plays?

1:00:10.720 --> 1:00:12.680
<v Speaker 1>Do you do? You also see it in that way

1:00:12.720 --> 1:00:15.280
<v Speaker 1>as helping people be seen as helping queer stories be

1:00:15.360 --> 1:00:18.000
<v Speaker 1>seen totally, like how did it? How did it come

1:00:18.040 --> 1:00:20.880
<v Speaker 1>to fruition? And I sort of want the backstories you

1:00:20.880 --> 1:00:22.680
<v Speaker 1>can tell us about how it's growing this.

1:00:22.800 --> 1:00:26.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, thank you, thanks for asking us. So basically,

1:00:27.440 --> 1:00:31.720
<v Speaker 2>Doug Nevin, who is a wonderful theater a man of

1:00:31.720 --> 1:00:35.000
<v Speaker 2>the theater. He's a lawyer and a producer. He and

1:00:35.080 --> 1:00:37.440
<v Speaker 2>I became really good friends. He he was a producer

1:00:37.480 --> 1:00:41.360
<v Speaker 2>of the solo play I did, Buyer and Seller, this

1:00:41.480 --> 1:00:43.040
<v Speaker 2>play that I did for a long long time where

1:00:43.040 --> 1:00:46.240
<v Speaker 2>I played an actor working in Barber Streisand's basement. Look

1:00:46.280 --> 1:00:51.360
<v Speaker 2>it up, you love it? And and we became really

1:00:51.360 --> 1:00:54.600
<v Speaker 2>good friends because we were the same age and we

1:00:54.720 --> 1:00:59.240
<v Speaker 2>just got along really really well, and we kept we

1:00:59.280 --> 1:01:02.640
<v Speaker 2>would always talk about queer theater and the good and

1:01:02.640 --> 1:01:04.440
<v Speaker 2>the bad. And obviously I do a lot of theater

1:01:04.920 --> 1:01:07.160
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of queer theater, and there's no there's

1:01:07.200 --> 1:01:10.360
<v Speaker 2>no like lack of queer stories in the theater. It's

1:01:10.400 --> 1:01:14.360
<v Speaker 2>a pretty queer medium. But what we kept noticing. I

1:01:14.440 --> 1:01:17.200
<v Speaker 2>kept noticing specifically that like it was me and the

1:01:17.240 --> 1:01:20.360
<v Speaker 2>same couple of guys every time up for roles or

1:01:20.360 --> 1:01:23.760
<v Speaker 2>we would follow each other like like, you know, Jesse

1:01:23.880 --> 1:01:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Tyler Ferguson didn't do this, so I did it. I

1:01:26.720 --> 1:01:28.640
<v Speaker 2>didn't do this, so Jesse did it. And it kept

1:01:28.680 --> 1:01:30.880
<v Speaker 2>like and I was like, I get white people think

1:01:30.960 --> 1:01:33.680
<v Speaker 2>Jesse and I are alike, but we actually aren't alike.

1:01:34.400 --> 1:01:37.640
<v Speaker 2>We're actually very very different, and yet we keep getting

1:01:38.520 --> 1:01:41.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, even sometimes mistaken for each other. And I'm like,

1:01:41.720 --> 1:01:44.520
<v Speaker 2>all right, well, that's like this is a problem we

1:01:44.600 --> 1:01:48.360
<v Speaker 2>need to like and and I also know because I also, like,

1:01:48.440 --> 1:01:51.120
<v Speaker 2>my partner is an actor, and I know lots of

1:01:51.160 --> 1:01:54.680
<v Speaker 2>other queer actors, and and there's this there's this mid

1:01:54.800 --> 1:01:58.400
<v Speaker 2>level issue which happens in I think all industries. But

1:01:58.760 --> 1:02:01.280
<v Speaker 2>there's this thing where like you can get experience until

1:02:01.320 --> 1:02:04.840
<v Speaker 2>you've had experience, and they won't give you a chance

1:02:04.960 --> 1:02:09.120
<v Speaker 2>without experience, And so what Doug and I wanted to

1:02:09.160 --> 1:02:14.320
<v Speaker 2>do was create this opportunity for people to have opportunities.

1:02:15.600 --> 1:02:20.680
<v Speaker 2>And also we didn't like that queer stories were continuing

1:02:20.720 --> 1:02:26.080
<v Speaker 2>to be told by straight people when there are I mean,

1:02:26.120 --> 1:02:27.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't think this. I don't have a black and

1:02:27.840 --> 1:02:29.720
<v Speaker 2>white rule about this. I don't think I don't I

1:02:29.760 --> 1:02:32.200
<v Speaker 2>think that this is a fluid conversation about you know,

1:02:32.200 --> 1:02:34.720
<v Speaker 2>who can play what. But I do think when when

1:02:34.760 --> 1:02:39.360
<v Speaker 2>a role or a story is inherently about the queerness,

1:02:40.080 --> 1:02:44.000
<v Speaker 2>that to say a straight person is the best person

1:02:44.040 --> 1:02:48.080
<v Speaker 2>for the job is silly and that happens a lot

1:02:48.120 --> 1:02:49.800
<v Speaker 2>when you know, like you're like, well, can't we just

1:02:49.880 --> 1:02:52.240
<v Speaker 2>hire the best person for the job, And it's like, yeah,

1:02:52.280 --> 1:02:56.360
<v Speaker 2>you can, and you should. But like who are you seeing?

1:02:56.800 --> 1:02:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

1:02:57.080 --> 1:02:58.400
<v Speaker 2>Who's your casting pool?

1:02:58.840 --> 1:02:59.080
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

1:02:59.200 --> 1:03:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Are you seeing all the street? Are you seeing all

1:03:01.120 --> 1:03:03.280
<v Speaker 2>the gay people before you see the straight people, or

1:03:03.480 --> 1:03:06.600
<v Speaker 2>as you see the straight people, or are you you know,

1:03:06.800 --> 1:03:11.320
<v Speaker 2>is your list a bunch of straight people that you know? YadA, YadA, YadA.

1:03:11.960 --> 1:03:14.680
<v Speaker 2>So that was something that and then Doug on his

1:03:14.760 --> 1:03:17.120
<v Speaker 2>side of his side of the industry, was we were,

1:03:17.200 --> 1:03:20.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, like as queer plays get submitted to theaters,

1:03:21.120 --> 1:03:23.320
<v Speaker 2>they end up in the same pile. So you might

1:03:23.360 --> 1:03:26.160
<v Speaker 2>have a play about a forty something white cis gay

1:03:26.240 --> 1:03:29.200
<v Speaker 2>man in the same pile as a story about a

1:03:29.240 --> 1:03:32.880
<v Speaker 2>twenty something black trans woman, And like those two plays,

1:03:32.920 --> 1:03:35.200
<v Speaker 2>those two plays shouldn't be in the same category, right,

1:03:35.240 --> 1:03:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Why are you putting them in the same category and

1:03:37.360 --> 1:03:39.080
<v Speaker 2>then choosing one over the other.

1:03:39.680 --> 1:03:42.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's like you wouldn't put a World War two

1:03:42.520 --> 1:03:44.760
<v Speaker 1>movie in a roum com in the same pile.

1:03:44.920 --> 1:03:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Thank you? Exactly, you know exactly. And so that was like,

1:03:49.200 --> 1:03:52.040
<v Speaker 2>it's like gay is not. Gay is not a category? Yeah,

1:03:52.120 --> 1:03:54.120
<v Speaker 2>gay is you know, that's a that's a kind of

1:03:54.120 --> 1:03:56.600
<v Speaker 2>a part queer is it. So we wanted to create

1:03:56.640 --> 1:03:58.600
<v Speaker 2>a festival where they could all So we set out,

1:03:58.600 --> 1:04:01.200
<v Speaker 2>we were like, let's do a festival, and it was

1:04:01.320 --> 1:04:03.280
<v Speaker 2>this was for World Pride when it was in New

1:04:03.320 --> 1:04:06.280
<v Speaker 2>York and twenty nineteen. That's when we started. Yeah, and

1:04:06.760 --> 1:04:09.400
<v Speaker 2>we thought we could do like four plays, and then

1:04:09.400 --> 1:04:10.840
<v Speaker 2>we were like, wait a minute, there's a lot of

1:04:10.880 --> 1:04:13.400
<v Speaker 2>different kinds of people in this community and we need

1:04:13.440 --> 1:04:15.680
<v Speaker 2>to try to represent all of them. And it ended

1:04:15.720 --> 1:04:19.120
<v Speaker 2>up being nineteen Wow, and I think we did a

1:04:19.160 --> 1:04:21.800
<v Speaker 2>really good job. It was it was it was hard,

1:04:21.840 --> 1:04:25.360
<v Speaker 2>but I think we really did, you know, tick all

1:04:25.400 --> 1:04:28.400
<v Speaker 2>the boxes, so to speak, and and and and reach

1:04:28.440 --> 1:04:30.920
<v Speaker 2>out to like as much of the community as we

1:04:31.000 --> 1:04:34.520
<v Speaker 2>could and try to represent all of them. And so

1:04:35.480 --> 1:04:37.680
<v Speaker 2>in the in the years since, we did one on

1:04:37.760 --> 1:04:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Zoom during the pandemic, and we've and we've done educational

1:04:41.240 --> 1:04:46.560
<v Speaker 2>initiatives through the festivals. And this year we are World

1:04:46.560 --> 1:04:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Pride is in d C and we're going We're going

1:04:50.280 --> 1:04:52.320
<v Speaker 2>to d C for World Pride. Pride Plays will be

1:04:52.560 --> 1:04:55.600
<v Speaker 2>an association with the William Memmath Theater Company during World Pride,

1:04:56.040 --> 1:04:58.160
<v Speaker 2>and we're going to do I think we're going to

1:04:58.200 --> 1:05:04.160
<v Speaker 2>do six play readings. And it should be it should

1:05:04.160 --> 1:05:07.960
<v Speaker 2>be great. It might be charged, it might be it

1:05:08.040 --> 1:05:11.680
<v Speaker 2>might be there might be some I don't know what

1:05:11.680 --> 1:05:13.000
<v Speaker 2>it's going to be like. I mean, honestly don't know

1:05:13.000 --> 1:05:15.920
<v Speaker 2>what it's going to be like. And things change so rapidly,

1:05:16.520 --> 1:05:19.479
<v Speaker 2>especially in that town. But I've worked in that town

1:05:19.680 --> 1:05:21.360
<v Speaker 2>a lot in the theater. I've done a lot of

1:05:21.400 --> 1:05:23.240
<v Speaker 2>theater in that town, and it is one of my

1:05:23.240 --> 1:05:26.000
<v Speaker 2>favorite places in the world to do theater because the

1:05:26.040 --> 1:05:35.320
<v Speaker 2>audiences are so they're so they're so intelligent, but more

1:05:35.360 --> 1:05:40.800
<v Speaker 2>than that, they are they're curious, they want to learn.

1:05:41.080 --> 1:05:43.480
<v Speaker 2>And because their jobs are so intense, everyone in DC

1:05:43.560 --> 1:05:45.640
<v Speaker 2>has such intense jobs, they really are able to like

1:05:45.720 --> 1:05:48.320
<v Speaker 2>put it away and come and focus on something new,

1:05:48.880 --> 1:05:51.840
<v Speaker 2>as opposed to sometimes in New York, like you get

1:05:51.840 --> 1:05:54.920
<v Speaker 2>like professional theater goers who see four four shows a

1:05:54.960 --> 1:06:00.520
<v Speaker 2>week and and so it's always it's always it's always

1:06:00.560 --> 1:06:03.280
<v Speaker 2>work for them, and you can feel them say what's different,

1:06:03.720 --> 1:06:06.919
<v Speaker 2>what's new? You know, in d C you can do,

1:06:07.760 --> 1:06:09.960
<v Speaker 2>like in New York, if you're going to do say Hamlet,

1:06:10.640 --> 1:06:14.600
<v Speaker 2>it's got to be like either definitive or brand new,

1:06:15.120 --> 1:06:17.760
<v Speaker 2>some brand new version. And in d C you can

1:06:17.840 --> 1:06:20.000
<v Speaker 2>just like throw Hamlet up and say this is Hamlet.

1:06:20.040 --> 1:06:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it can just be very good.

1:06:21.440 --> 1:06:23.160
<v Speaker 2>It can just be good, yeah exactly. It doesn't have

1:06:23.200 --> 1:06:28.479
<v Speaker 2>to like reinvent Hamlet or be the best Hamlet ever,

1:06:28.960 --> 1:06:30.360
<v Speaker 2>in which New York's you know.

1:06:30.840 --> 1:06:32.960
<v Speaker 1>You've had seven times, yeah exactly.

1:06:33.000 --> 1:06:34.680
<v Speaker 2>And in New York you try to do some old

1:06:34.680 --> 1:06:38.040
<v Speaker 2>play and you know, if you didn't, if you didn't

1:06:38.600 --> 1:06:41.240
<v Speaker 2>completely reinvent it, then it's a failure, which is weird.

1:06:41.400 --> 1:06:43.880
<v Speaker 2>But but but in DC, you can do that and

1:06:43.920 --> 1:06:48.880
<v Speaker 2>the audience wants that. So so I know the audience

1:06:48.880 --> 1:06:52.520
<v Speaker 2>will be great for us in d C. And I

1:06:52.560 --> 1:06:54.880
<v Speaker 2>feel like it's going to be great. That's my hunch.

1:06:55.600 --> 1:06:59.439
<v Speaker 2>You never know what you never know. Yeah, it's gonna

1:06:59.440 --> 1:07:01.400
<v Speaker 2>be a lot of queer people come into.

1:07:01.320 --> 1:07:03.720
<v Speaker 1>DC, you know what, good they need it.

1:07:03.880 --> 1:07:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think so, And I think we have an

1:07:05.840 --> 1:07:09.280
<v Speaker 2>opportunity to you know, change some change some minds.

1:07:09.680 --> 1:07:17.400
<v Speaker 1>And now for our sponsors. When you look at this

1:07:17.440 --> 1:07:20.120
<v Speaker 1>sort of landscape of your life and you know your

1:07:20.120 --> 1:07:22.640
<v Speaker 1>life with Ryan and your life in work and that

1:07:22.720 --> 1:07:25.600
<v Speaker 1>your advocacy and your shows and the plays and all

1:07:25.720 --> 1:07:29.120
<v Speaker 1>the things, you have a lot what feels like you're

1:07:29.160 --> 1:07:30.520
<v Speaker 1>work in progress.

1:07:30.080 --> 1:07:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Right now, right right right the title.

1:07:34.120 --> 1:07:36.920
<v Speaker 1>The title you knew it was coming, and then you

1:07:37.040 --> 1:07:39.080
<v Speaker 1>forgott come full circle.

1:07:39.400 --> 1:07:47.480
<v Speaker 2>There it is. It's probably actually there's there's some adulting

1:07:48.120 --> 1:07:52.680
<v Speaker 2>that I think is a real work in progress. And

1:07:52.720 --> 1:07:56.880
<v Speaker 2>that's that's something that I'm like, you know, like when

1:07:56.880 --> 1:08:00.320
<v Speaker 2>I talk to people who are younger than I am,

1:08:00.720 --> 1:08:04.400
<v Speaker 2>there are lots more of them now and that happens

1:08:04.400 --> 1:08:07.640
<v Speaker 2>to us. Yeah, and what I see in their eyes

1:08:07.880 --> 1:08:11.320
<v Speaker 2>that they're looking to me for some kind of insider advice.

1:08:12.960 --> 1:08:15.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, I had somebody as somebody that I'm close

1:08:15.240 --> 1:08:19.479
<v Speaker 2>with who's about thirty, asked me to mentor them, Like

1:08:19.479 --> 1:08:21.439
<v Speaker 2>I actually asked me to mentor them, and I thought, oh,

1:08:21.439 --> 1:08:25.880
<v Speaker 2>I can't. Yeah, I'm gonna too. Oh I am old

1:08:26.000 --> 1:08:29.519
<v Speaker 2>enough to be someone's mentor. So wrapping my head around

1:08:29.560 --> 1:08:34.080
<v Speaker 2>that and and and trusting that I'm an adult and

1:08:34.160 --> 1:08:38.519
<v Speaker 2>I can do that, and I can like just off

1:08:38.560 --> 1:08:42.960
<v Speaker 2>the cuff give insights and advice that aren't entirely my

1:08:43.040 --> 1:08:46.519
<v Speaker 2>own experience, because that's really hard thing, especially in our business,

1:08:46.920 --> 1:08:50.480
<v Speaker 2>is all you really know is what happened to you. Yeah,

1:08:50.640 --> 1:08:53.200
<v Speaker 2>we've definitely've been around and we've been able to observe things,

1:08:53.240 --> 1:08:56.360
<v Speaker 2>but I can only really, I can only really know

1:08:56.760 --> 1:09:02.439
<v Speaker 2>what's happened to me and you your experience will definitely

1:09:02.520 --> 1:09:05.160
<v Speaker 2>be different because we all have different different experiences. No

1:09:05.240 --> 1:09:09.439
<v Speaker 2>two actors are the same. But it's navigating that, like

1:09:09.479 --> 1:09:12.720
<v Speaker 2>the sort of the responsibility of being elder gay of

1:09:12.760 --> 1:09:17.280
<v Speaker 2>being you know, like elder actor being the oldest person

1:09:17.280 --> 1:09:22.679
<v Speaker 2>in the room sometimes. And then also outside of show business,

1:09:23.560 --> 1:09:29.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, animals getting older and homes falling apart and mortgages,

1:09:29.520 --> 1:09:35.080
<v Speaker 2>and like those kinds of adult things nissas and nephews

1:09:35.160 --> 1:09:38.719
<v Speaker 2>that are coming of age and aren't just little squishy

1:09:38.800 --> 1:09:41.920
<v Speaker 2>things that I can hand back and like now they're

1:09:42.479 --> 1:09:45.479
<v Speaker 2>you know, okay, this is forever. These memories are forever now,

1:09:45.560 --> 1:09:48.640
<v Speaker 2>and I want to be you know, I want to

1:09:48.680 --> 1:09:52.080
<v Speaker 2>be a good citizen to them. So I think the

1:09:52.160 --> 1:09:55.599
<v Speaker 2>work in progress is actually being you know, like I

1:09:55.600 --> 1:10:01.240
<v Speaker 2>think in show business, I'm way more at ease than

1:10:01.240 --> 1:10:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I've ever been, and as a man adult, I'm figuring

1:10:06.960 --> 1:10:09.200
<v Speaker 2>it out still. Yeah, I'm still figuring out like how

1:10:09.200 --> 1:10:12.000
<v Speaker 2>do you be a man in this? And also our

1:10:12.000 --> 1:10:14.960
<v Speaker 2>world keeps changing, so I'm giving myself a little bit

1:10:14.960 --> 1:10:21.760
<v Speaker 2>of slack, a little bit of grace. But but yeah,

1:10:21.920 --> 1:10:23.280
<v Speaker 2>what's it like to be a middle aged man.

1:10:24.680 --> 1:10:25.519
<v Speaker 1>That's a big question.

1:10:25.920 --> 1:10:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Because eighty eight feels good. That feels like a good

1:10:28.479 --> 1:10:31.000
<v Speaker 2>age to make it too, So that means this is

1:10:31.000 --> 1:10:34.840
<v Speaker 2>the middle I loving people who are well this is mean.

1:10:35.200 --> 1:10:37.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean you have a whole other half, that's right,

1:10:37.160 --> 1:10:38.959
<v Speaker 1>And look at what you've done in the first half.

1:10:38.720 --> 1:10:43.639
<v Speaker 2>That's right. Yeah, totally, And so much of the first

1:10:43.640 --> 1:10:48.679
<v Speaker 2>half was spent as a kid, yeah, which doesn't really

1:10:48.680 --> 1:10:50.639
<v Speaker 2>count exactly. I was just grissy.

1:10:50.680 --> 1:10:52.320
<v Speaker 1>It's like you get double the adult time now.

1:10:52.479 --> 1:10:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know it's cool.

1:10:54.800 --> 1:10:55.360
<v Speaker 1>I love it.

1:10:55.560 --> 1:10:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:10:55.920 --> 1:10:58.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm excited to do forty four more with you.

1:10:58.600 --> 1:11:02.160
<v Speaker 2>Great, let's go. Oh okay, let's sing on a beach

1:11:02.160 --> 1:11:02.920
<v Speaker 2>when we're eighty eight?

1:11:04.120 --> 1:11:06.240
<v Speaker 1>How fast? Just not giving up?

1:11:06.800 --> 1:11:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Right? I love you, I love you, Thank you. It's

1:11:10.920 --> 1:11:12.640
<v Speaker 2>so nice to be THO for you. Thank you,