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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Ah, I don't know why it's behind the bastards. We're

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Speaker 2: back is part two. Adolf Ikeman, you know, the Ikeman. Uh?

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Speaker 3: Oh uh, maybe he's uh, he's the Ike from Mike

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Speaker 3: and Ikes.

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Speaker 2: That's rights the man. Yeah, Mike and Ikes, Mike Madonna

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Speaker 2: and Adolf Ikeman together at last in a candy.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, not Mike Madonna. I heard he was a

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Speaker 3: nice guy.

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Speaker 2: Well, I know nothing about him. He was the only

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Speaker 2: Mic I could famous Mike I could come up with

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Speaker 2: on a short order. Anyway, how you doing, Joe, I'm good.

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Speaker 2: Any big changes in life in the last like ten minutes.

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Speaker 3: No, I got up, walked around a bit, Uh, came back.

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Speaker 3: Turns out Adolf ike would still piece of shit.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he has not become less of one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, invented candy while I was gone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, yes, the candy stuff is new. A lot

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Speaker 2: of a lot of researchers aren't aware of that yet,

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Speaker 2: because it's a lie.

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Speaker 3: You have the forbid knowledge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Nazism is based on the big lie,

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Speaker 2: which you know. It's very funny to me. I get

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Speaker 2: it more if you're German, right, because the German Imperial

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Speaker 2: Army at the start of World War One almost certainly

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Speaker 2: the best army in the world and really comes within

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Speaker 2: a hair's breath of pulling it off right like they

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Speaker 2: came pretty It's not like World War Two, where it's like,

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Speaker 2: well past a very certain point, this was fucked like

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Speaker 2: they were. They were in the fight right up until

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Speaker 2: the last year there, you know.

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Speaker 3: But if you're Austrian, it's just like you.

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Speaker 2: Were fucked from the jump.

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Speaker 3: Come on, man, this is why they only had to

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Speaker 3: become German nationalists, who was like, yeah, we did, we tried,

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Speaker 3: our thing didn't work out. It turns out we don't

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Speaker 3: deserve it.

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Speaker 2: We immediately got pantsed by both the Russians and the

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Speaker 2: Serbians because the Hungarians were just like you think Germany

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Speaker 2: strapped to a corpse. Boy, we're gonna go limp as fuck.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go hang out this place called Asanzo for

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Speaker 3: a very long time.

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Speaker 2: Let's be worse than the Italians at twentieth century war.

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Speaker 2: It's not easy. So anyway, it's always funny to me that, like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so many Austrians got hung up on the big lives, Like, guys,

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Speaker 2: you didn't need anyone else to explain your defeat and

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Speaker 2: did the Germans really, But there's just a little bit

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Speaker 2: more to it, with the.

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Speaker 3: Germans still starting a political party that's just anti Austrian

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Speaker 3: while I'm also Austrian. Because it's like, we don't deserve it,

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Speaker 3: we don't deserve it.

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Speaker 2: It made more sense for them to get really pissed

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Speaker 2: at the Hungarians.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 2: So by mid nineteen thirty two, Pikeman has joined the

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Speaker 2: Nazi Party. He starts reading their newspapers before he officially

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Speaker 2: becomes a member. He gets kind of involved in like

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Speaker 2: the fan fiction expanded Nazi Universe before he takes the

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Speaker 2: plunge itself. His favorite paper is Volkashobeobacter, which is the

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Speaker 2: official Nazi Party newspaper edited by Alfred Rosenberg, Friend of

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Speaker 2: the Pod. He's not a friend of the pod.

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Speaker 3: He was friendship with Alfred Rosenberg over.

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Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not going to have

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Speaker 2: him on the show anymore. It was a mistake in

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Speaker 2: the first place to bring him on. I just wanted

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Speaker 2: to know his opinions on idiomine.

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Speaker 3: They were bad.

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Speaker 2: Oh we didn't run that episode for a reason.

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Speaker 3: This is why you lost your Spotify deal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, Cesserine reports that he was drawn in at

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Speaker 2: first by these lurid stories that were printed in Nazi

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Speaker 2: papers of these grand street battles between the brown Shirts

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Speaker 2: and the SS and communists and other anti fascists in Berlin, right,

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Speaker 2: because that was a major part of Nazi propaganda in

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Speaker 2: kind of the early thirties, is these like heroic street

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Speaker 2: battles that are winning us the country. And you get

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Speaker 2: the sense, and Iikman never writes this, but you get

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Speaker 2: the sense that he wants, like a lot of young

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Speaker 2: men do some play in that martial glory, right, he

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Speaker 2: wants to feel like he's got a part in it, right.

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Speaker 3: Even if he didn't before. I imagine he got that

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Speaker 3: kind of beaten into a skull by the Junior Veterans.

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Speaker 2: Association, right, like you really need to be in a

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Speaker 2: fight to be a man.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now, what's interesting is he'd taken no real part in

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Speaker 2: the urban combat that had existed between right and left

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Speaker 2: in Austria up to this point, right, for last five

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Speaker 2: or six years, there's been a ton of it. He

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Speaker 2: had plenty of opportunities to get involved in like these

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Speaker 2: kind of street fights, and he had chosen not to.

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Speaker 3: He saw him a choice.

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Speaker 2: I must say, yeah, which is, you know, shows some judgment,

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Speaker 2: but he clearly is like feeling it by this point, right,

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Speaker 2: like the fact that he's spent all this time in

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Speaker 2: his social life and his career instead of becoming a

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Speaker 2: hero to fascists. So what finally tips him over the

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Speaker 2: edge into joining? While the answer seems to be simple ego,

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Speaker 2: The Austrian Nazi Party had been founded by a war

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Speaker 2: veteran named Alfred Proksch, who was close friends to a

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Speaker 2: guy named Bolek, who himself was the gaulier or leader

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Speaker 2: of the Linz Nazi Party. Boleck was friends with Eichman's dad,

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Speaker 2: which again goes to his politics.

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Speaker 3: Right, Oh my god, this keeps coming back to his dad.

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Speaker 3: He is such a Nepo baby. He is the Nazi

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Speaker 3: Nepo baby of all Nazi Nepo babies. Right.

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Speaker 2: So another family friend and colleague of his father was

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Speaker 2: the father of Ernst Chelton Brunner. And if you know

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Speaker 2: your Nazi war criminals, Calton Brunner is a big one.

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Speaker 2: He will go on to be an Austrian SS member

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Speaker 2: who becomes director of the Reich Security Main Office the RSS. Right,

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Speaker 2: Like it's the organization that fucking Heidrich is running for

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Speaker 2: a while, right. Calton Brunner is a major member of

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Speaker 2: the SS, but at this point he's a young member

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Speaker 2: of the SS, which is itself a fairly new organization

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Speaker 2: and it's just starting trying to like spread in Austria

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Speaker 2: because Hitler's already got the Anschluss planned here. Right, So,

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Speaker 2: the younger Eichmann and Calton Brunner had known each other

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Speaker 2: for most of their lives. And when Eikman shows up

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Speaker 2: at this Nazi party meeting, Ernst embraces him and addresses

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Speaker 2: him using the familiar do form of greeting, which is

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Speaker 2: a German way of basically talking to somebody like their

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Speaker 2: a close friend or a member of the family. Right,

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Speaker 2: A lot of hierarchy of where you actually stood in

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Speaker 2: the Nazi state had less to do sometimes with your

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Speaker 2: actual rank and more to do with like, can you

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Speaker 2: call Hitler do right? Can you like use this intimate

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Speaker 2: form of greeting with the fearor if so? Or can

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Speaker 2: you use this intriment form of greeting with Himmler, you know,

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Speaker 2: or with Gerring or whatever, right with somebody who's part

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Speaker 2: of the high command if so you've got clout right,

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Speaker 2: maybe more than someone who technically outranks you.

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Speaker 3: And of course after do you have to finish it

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Speaker 3: with the formal host.

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Speaker 2: Right right, right? Yes, as rams it reminds us all,

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Speaker 2: so I commit. I don't know if it's a good

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Speaker 2: one either. I don't know German. I just know every

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Speaker 2: book about Hitler talks about the people who are allowed

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Speaker 2: to call him that. Right, it was a big deal.

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Speaker 2: Eikman would later recall that he was kind of drawn

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Speaker 2: in to the Nazi Party and to the SS as

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Speaker 2: much by anything by how good Carlton Brunner's uniform looks.

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Speaker 2: He's like, damn, those SS uniforms are slick, right, I

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Speaker 2: want to look like that.

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Speaker 3: You know. He felt for the fucking dumbest.

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Speaker 2: This so many so many guys did.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 2: He was impressed by the rapid growth of the Nazis,

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Speaker 2: their ascendance in Germany, how well they marched, and how

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Speaker 2: good their branding was. Then Calton Brenner told him you

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Speaker 2: you belong to us, and Eikman decided, yes, yes he did. Now.

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Speaker 2: At first he was a bit of an oddity at

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Speaker 2: party gatherings. Unemployment is soaring in Austria right now, and

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Speaker 2: most of the far right street fighters right are either

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Speaker 2: out of work or working irregularly. Aikman's first impression on

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Speaker 2: his colleagues is that he has money, right, He can

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Speaker 2: afford to buy beer and bread for everybody, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of them can't, right, So that's kind of and

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Speaker 2: again that makes some sort of an oddity in this

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Speaker 2: organization in this period, is that like, he's mister money

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Speaker 2: bags to them.

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Speaker 3: So is he a guy that gets invited to the

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Speaker 3: party because he brings beer.

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Speaker 2: That's both nepotism and that he has money for beer,

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Speaker 2: and one has to assume cigarettes.

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Speaker 3: Okay, we've all invited that guy to the party before.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, Yes. In early nineteen thirty three, Aikman was

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Speaker 2: laid off from his job as a result of the

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Speaker 2: economic downtterm. Now, this seems to have been an amicable split.

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Speaker 2: He was on the chopping block because he was unmarried,

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Speaker 2: and they fired unmarried people before people who were married

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Speaker 2: and thus had families to support, and his severance was

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Speaker 2: generous for the time. Now, the fact that the person

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Speaker 2: who lays him off as his Jewish boss makes it

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Speaker 2: tempting to be like, oh, is like that an inciting incident,

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Speaker 2: But he just doesn't write about this as if he's angry.

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Speaker 2: His writing about it is like, yeah, you know, I

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Speaker 2: knew like this was happening everywhere. I knew it was

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Speaker 2: going to happen eventually. I had already started looking for

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Speaker 2: new options, and they gave me good separence. Right. He

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Speaker 2: just doesn't doesn't really describe himself as being particularly put

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Speaker 2: off by.

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Speaker 3: This, and it doesn't seem to be that thing that

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Speaker 3: everybody's looking for. No, it's obvious that that his anti

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Speaker 3: semitism is coming while he's already in the SS.

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Speaker 2: Right, he's not quite in it yet, but he is.

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Speaker 2: He's heading up towards the SS. Right, he's in the

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Speaker 2: Nazi Party and he clearly aspires to the SS. So

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Speaker 2: he's getting more anti semitic. It's just it's careerism. I

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Speaker 2: think that that inspires him to get more anti Semitic,

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Speaker 2: rather than like something happening outside of that, which people

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Speaker 2: seem to constantly want.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's chilling with his bros who are in the SS.

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Speaker 3: He's going to be anti semitic eventually, yes, or lie

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Speaker 3: about it or pretending this friend's in good and getting

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Speaker 3: fucking job because he just lost his.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and honestly, to a certain point, doesn't matter if

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Speaker 2: you're like pretending to be anti Semitic in the SS

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Speaker 2: or really anti semitic.

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Speaker 3: Right, just like, oh I said that slur ironically, Yeah

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Speaker 3: he did.

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Speaker 2: No, No, you didn't. You're literally in the SS cabot.

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Speaker 2: So the party is kind of his social safety net

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Speaker 2: and it's also his backup plan when he loses his job.

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Speaker 2: He goes to Calton Brenner and he's like, look, I

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Speaker 2: need work now, can I get some help? And Calton

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Speaker 2: Brenner pulls some strings and gets Iikman taken in by

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Speaker 2: the SS. Now, Austria bans the Nazi Party not long

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Speaker 2: after this, and so some of the people who had

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Speaker 2: been high ranking leave and go to Germany right to

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Speaker 2: participate because the Nazis are now in power in Germany.

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Speaker 2: So these guys like leave Austria to help run the

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Speaker 2: German government and run the SS in Germany. Calton Brynner

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Speaker 2: is one of them, and he takes Eichman with him. Right,

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Speaker 2: So Eichman kind of flees Austria when the Nazis are

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Speaker 2: banned with Calton Brunner and gets a job in the SS.

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Speaker 3: He goes through a weird Nazi birthright.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, he's doing a Nazi birthright thing, and he

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Speaker 2: goes through months of military training and indoctrination and then

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Speaker 2: further training on how to run and operate a concentration camp. Now,

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Speaker 2: at this point, the concentration camps are not what they

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Speaker 2: will be. A lot of them at the point at

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Speaker 2: which he comes over are what you'd call wild concentration camps,

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Speaker 2: which are we've got this old school or police building.

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Speaker 2: We've got a bunch of political prisoners, communists and whatnot

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Speaker 2: that we're going to torture some of them, will kill.

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Speaker 2: Let's just throw them in there and have guards like,

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Speaker 2: fuck them up a bunch, right. Gradually the system gets

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Speaker 2: more formalized. But at this point, obviously Jews are a

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Speaker 2: lot of the people being taken in, but also just

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Speaker 2: a lot of like communists, a lot of political enemies,

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Speaker 2: social democrats, people who are enemies of the regime are

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Speaker 2: being put in camps.

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Speaker 3: No, it wasn't all say, Also wasn't unheard of for

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Speaker 3: people to get released from the camps at this period

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Speaker 3: of time.

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Speaker 2: I know, no, most people do. These are not death

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Speaker 2: camps yet, right, you get like paroles, like people die

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Speaker 2: at them, but they're not death camps.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: The goal of these camps is not to kill you.

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Speaker 2: The goal is primarily to scare people.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: By nineteen thirty four he was working under Camp Commander

245
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Speaker 2: Theodore Iike at Dachau. This involved a transfer to the SD,

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Speaker 2: which is the SS Security Service, which at the start

247
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Speaker 2: of the Reich is a small organization, but it's powerful

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Speaker 2: and feared now. Eikman gets in too late to participate

249
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Speaker 2: in the Night of Long Knives, but he benefits from

250
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Speaker 2: the fact that the SD had been the sharpest of

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Speaker 2: those knives, so it's kind of extra. People are extra

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Speaker 2: scared of it, and it has an extra degree of

253
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Speaker 2: prestige because of how it performed during that period. Right

254
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Speaker 2: in the space of less than two years, he goes

255
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Speaker 2: from being a mid level manager at an oil company

256
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Speaker 2: on his way to unemployment to a member of the

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Speaker 2: most feared security agency in the German world. His boss

258
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Speaker 2: like the guy once he kind of gets moved to

259
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Speaker 2: the SD. His direct superior is former Bastards POD alumni

260
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Speaker 2: Reinhard Heydrich and Eikman. Before Jerusalem, Bettina Stangneth writes, this

261
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Speaker 2: was a big step up in the world. Eichmann felt

262
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Speaker 2: he had established himself a fact in his to marry

263
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Speaker 2: and start a family, which within the SS was also

264
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Speaker 2: a good career move. He married Vera Leebel, a woman

265
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Speaker 2: from a lot in Bohemia, four years his junior. She

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Speaker 2: and her two brothers, who worked for the Gestapo would

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Speaker 2: come to profit from her husband's social climbing. And this

268
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Speaker 2: is a big part of how shit works, right, This

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Speaker 2: is like a gangster regime, a lot of the benefit.

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Speaker 2: Eikman doesn't have money, right, He's still not. He's not

271
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Speaker 2: like risk connections, but he can get married and convince

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Speaker 2: them because he's got connections which will help your family out.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: So like, yeah, if you I don't have enough as

275
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Speaker 2: much money as you might want from a suitor, but

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Speaker 2: I can help my brothers in law get contracts and stuff.

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Speaker 3: Right, I could. I could be a Nazi job program

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Speaker 3: for your shity brothers.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, for your fail brothers. Yeah, that's exactly how

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Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff works in this period.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course. I mean his dad has gotten almost

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Speaker 3: every job he's ever had, and now he's Calton Brunner

283
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Speaker 3: hanging out with him. He's set. He's in the worst

284
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Speaker 3: way possible, but he's set.

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Speaker 2: He's a made man with a Nazism.

286
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Speaker 3: Yes, he went to the local trade school on concentration camps.

287
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Speaker 3: He's everything you're looking for. Yeah, yeah, he's perfect.

288
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Speaker 2: So one of the things he likes most about the

289
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,080
Speaker 2: SD is that you don't have to wear your uniform

290
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Speaker 2: every day. Right, you can like wear normal clothes when

291
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,960
Speaker 2: you're in the SD because you're like the FBI of

292
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,360
Speaker 2: the Nazis, right, and you don't have to. Also, you

293
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,160
Speaker 2: don't have to do any of the pointless drills and

294
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Speaker 2: marching that like a lot of guys in the SS do.

295
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,120
Speaker 2: There's less of the paramilitarism, which is boring. Right, it

296
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:27,480
Speaker 2: kind of makes life achure.

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Speaker 3: And it also is the military makes everything that can

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Speaker 3: make you sick of walking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is like your fake racism military. And

300
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Speaker 2: Reikman gets to skip the bullshit, right, And he gets

301
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Speaker 2: to skip the bullshit in a way that makes him

302
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Speaker 2: feel special. Right, I get to skip the bullshit because

303
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 2: I'm like smarter and more valuable than the other guys. Right,

304
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,080
Speaker 2: And like his ego, he so much of why he

305
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,840
Speaker 2: becomes so dedicated to the Nazis. Is that Nazism feeds

306
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,040
Speaker 2: his ego and his belief that he's special, that the

307
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Speaker 2: world had not really tailored to earlier in his life.

308
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Speaker 3: And unfortunately it seems to like a lot of these guys.

309
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Speaker 3: Of course, it's careerism. But like he was good at it,

310
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Speaker 3: he is going to be unfortunately good at it. Yes, yeah, unfortunately,

311
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Speaker 3: he's very good at it. He's got a good brain

312
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Speaker 3: for logistics. Tragically. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: After April of nineteen thirty five, SS members were officially

314
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Speaker 2: forbidden from having personal contact with Jews. This was waived

315
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,000
Speaker 2: for the SD because the nature of their workman that

316
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 2: they were always on duty. Iikman decided to rebrand himself

317
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,840
Speaker 2: as an expert on Jews and Judaism, and he starts

318
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Speaker 2: going undercover to Jewish civil organizations and making connections to

319
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Speaker 2: different community leaders, and he pretends to be a liberal, right,

320
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Speaker 2: so he'll show up at Jewish gatherings. Remember this is

321
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Speaker 2: early in the Third Reich. These communities have not been

322
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Speaker 2: completely disrupted or uprooted yet, and they're trying to figure

323
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Speaker 2: out how do we protect ourselves from this government that's

324
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Speaker 2: getting increasingly hostile towards us and Iikman starts showing up

325
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Speaker 2: and being like, hey, man, fucked up what those Nazis

326
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Speaker 2: are doing. I'm really curious about your faith. Would you

327
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Speaker 2: like tell me some stuff about how things work? Right? Yeah,

328
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Speaker 2: and he was. He would occasionally he would be open

329
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Speaker 2: about being in the SS, but a lot of Jewish

330
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Speaker 2: community leaders would still talk to him because they were like, well,

331
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Speaker 2: it's useful. He's a man in the SS. We can reach, right,

332
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Speaker 2: he seems like a decent enough guy. We can convince

333
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 2: him that we're people, and maybe he'll provide us with

334
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,359
Speaker 2: some protection. Right, we can convince him of our humanity.

335
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Speaker 2: He goes so far as to briefly take Hebrew classes

336
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Speaker 2: from a Jewish teacher, despite being officially forbidden on two

337
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,360
Speaker 2: different occasions from doing so. And this is something it's

338
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:42,280
Speaker 2: going to be. It's exaggerated because he will exaggerate it.

339
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 2: He's never a fluent speaker of Hebrew. Right. He picks

340
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 2: up a couple of phrases that he can use and whatnot,

341
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 2: and he likes to drop them. He likes to drop

342
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,800
Speaker 2: Hebrew phrases and like SS meetings and stuff to show

343
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Speaker 2: everyone how knowledgeable he is about the Jews. That he's

344
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Speaker 2: the expert. Right.

345
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Speaker 3: What's really funny is I think most people, well at

346
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,600
Speaker 3: the time, would speak Yiddish and not Hebrew anyway.

347
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Speaker 2: Well, he also he also picks up right, he takes

348
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 2: Hebrew classes, but he does pick he picks up little

349
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Speaker 2: bits of both. This year there's a the movie Conspiracy,

350
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Speaker 2: He kind of the Aikman in that claims to have

351
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,000
Speaker 2: learned a lot more Hebrew than he really did. But

352
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,160
Speaker 2: that's also what real Aikman did to his colleagues, because

353
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:22,520
Speaker 2: none of them are able to be like, you don't

354
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,160
Speaker 2: really speak Hebrew, right, because they don't know they're Nazis.

355
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,879
Speaker 3: You know, right, I don't know the first thing about

356
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,800
Speaker 3: it because it's yeah, and he can make himself seem

357
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,959
Speaker 3: like more of a a strategic thinkers, like no, I

358
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,359
Speaker 3: know my enemy and such, I know my enemy.

359
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Speaker 2: You know, he's doing his son Soux shit.

360
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And you see that kind of shit all the

361
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Speaker 3: time when people are reframing these guys and making them

362
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,080
Speaker 3: seem like evil geniuses and not just like again a

363
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Speaker 3: nepo idiot who was really good at logistics.

364
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Speaker 2: The genius here is not that he was so well

365
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,280
Speaker 2: informed about Judaism and like Gain such a deep it

366
00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 2: was that he knew all I have to do. If

367
00:17:58,480 --> 00:17:59,880
Speaker 2: I take a if I can get like a dozen

368
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,760
Speaker 2: words and phrases down, and I can read passages from

369
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,080
Speaker 2: a couple pieces of rabbinical literature. Everyone else knows so

370
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,000
Speaker 2: little about these people, then I will be the most

371
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,440
Speaker 2: knowledgeable guy about Jews in the SS. And that's probably

372
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,640
Speaker 2: a really good path to career advancement. No one's ever

373
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Speaker 2: gonna call me on this shit, and I can make

374
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Speaker 2: a place for myself in this organization.

375
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Speaker 3: Right, He's literally the world of the blind, the man

376
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,240
Speaker 3: with what eyes cake, but he is what eye for Hebrew? Yeah, right.

377
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,960
Speaker 2: Stangnet's book goes on to describe the extent of his studies. Later,

378
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,000
Speaker 2: Eichmann would speak of a course of study that took

379
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,120
Speaker 2: three years. He didn't mention that his superiors occasionally had

380
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,280
Speaker 2: to reprimand him for disorganization and tardiness. It would be

381
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,840
Speaker 2: easy to mistake his lifestyle for that of a scientifically

382
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,679
Speaker 2: inclined a steat with some crude political views, except that

383
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,720
Speaker 2: between coffeehouse chats, memos, lectures, and evening conferences with his colleagues,

384
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 2: he was meticulously keeping denunciation files and writing anti Semitic propaganda,

385
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:58,760
Speaker 2: making arrests and carrying out joint interrogations with the Gestapo. Now,

386
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,920
Speaker 2: there were occasions rumors within the SS because of the

387
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 2: way he talks, because of what he's doing, that Eikman

388
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,920
Speaker 2: is either sympathetic towards Jews and there even there's there's

389
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 2: a long series of myths that he has Jewish ancestry,

390
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,520
Speaker 2: that he's like born Jewish, that he's born in a

391
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,919
Speaker 2: Jewish part of the world, right, Like, yeah, there are

392
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,240
Speaker 2: myths about that within the SS, but that also gets overstated,

393
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 2: Like he dealt with a little bit of shit, probably,

394
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,639
Speaker 2: but the overwhelming reaction of his colleagues seemed to have

395
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,439
Speaker 2: been respect for his knowledge. By nineteen thirty six, Adolf

396
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 2: Eichman was widely considered the SD's chief expert on Judaism.

397
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 2: His mentor in the SD, ed Leervon Mildenstein, had become

398
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 2: fascinated with Zionism and started to consider if immigration to

399
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 2: Palestine was a possible solution to Germany. He's Jewish question, right,

400
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 2: could we ship all these people to Palestine? Right and

401
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 2: have that let us get rid of them?

402
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,640
Speaker 3: Right? It reminds me of the Madagascar Plan as well.

403
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 2: We're about to talk about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So Eikman,

404
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,159
Speaker 2: you know, he's one of these guys where there's a

405
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 2: lot of unscientific thinking and a lot of just like

406
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 2: propaganda around the Jews that is just made out of

407
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,920
Speaker 2: fantasies because they're just at a certain point when they're

408
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 2: rising to power, just throwing out as many lies as

409
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,640
Speaker 2: possible to scare people. But Reinhardt Heidrich and the SD

410
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,360
Speaker 2: is like, no, no, no, we need a scientific approach

411
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 2: to race, and we need to have a real understanding

412
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 2: of what's going on here. And as a result, Heidrich

413
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 2: is going to kind of pick out Eikman and be

414
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 2: like this, this guy is someone we need to bring

415
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 2: further into the fold. Per an article on BBC's website

416
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,920
Speaker 2: titled Adolf Eichman The Mind of a war Criminal. Quote.

417
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 2: While rabble rousers like Joseph Gebbels railed against the Jews

418
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 2: and called forever harsher but directionless measures against them, the

419
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 2: SD quietly promoted Jewish immigration. To this end, Eikman contacted

420
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 2: Zionist invoys and may even made a visit to Palestine

421
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty seven. Now again, Eikman is going to

422
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 2: make a lot of tea out of the fact that

423
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 2: he's been to Palestine. This is a total nothing burger.

424
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 2: Iikman makes it to the border of the British mandate

425
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 2: in Palestine and the British authorities are like, are you literally,

426
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 2: Adolf Iikeman, get the fuck out of here? What do

427
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 2: you think you're doing? We know who you are. Get

428
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 2: out of.

429
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 3: Here, like out of fucking hear. Yeah, this is classic

430
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 3: Hydric as well. It's just like he takes all these

431
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 3: street thugs as like, Okay, I like the energy, but

432
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 3: we need to professionalize it to make it palatable for everybody. Right,

433
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 3: we can't. We can't all just be street clubbing racists.

434
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 3: We have to be gentlemen racists and are really stupid

435
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 3: hugo boss uniforms.

436
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 2: All right, who ears read a book? Just Iikman? Okay,

437
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 2: you're my expert. Promoted and for the rest of his career,

438
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 2: Iikman would constantly talk about like, you know, I've been

439
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 2: to Palestine. I've seen what the Jews are like in

440
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 2: their natural environment, right, Like that's the way he phrases it,

441
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 2: and it's like again, you like got to the border.

442
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 3: The Nazi Richard Attenborough.

443
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 2: Right, right, that's what he's trying to be. And again

444
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 2: he has he does nothing over there, right, the British

445
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,959
Speaker 2: will not let this fucker in. This is where we

446
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 2: start to see his brilliance for branding. Right. If he

447
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 2: was coming up today, he might have been an ad man, right,

448
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 2: because he's gonna he's going to use this very effectively,

449
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 2: even his failures to kind of blend into this myth

450
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 2: he's creating for himself about himself. His specific recommendation to

451
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 2: the SD after he finishes talking to you know this trip,

452
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 2: and he also has a lot of interviews with a

453
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,639
Speaker 2: bunch of different Zionists in Europe, and he makes an

454
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 2: official recommendation that the SD should not promote the creation

455
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 2: of a Jewish state, per that BBC article. Instead, it

456
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 2: should encourage Jewish immigration to backward countries where they would

457
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 2: live in poverty. And his assumption is that like, well,

458
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 2: if we send a bunch of them over to Palestine

459
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 2: and they like when the British leave, they make like

460
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 2: a state, you know, with the Palestinians, that state might

461
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 2: do well, and then there will be like a place

462
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: where Jewish people are comfortable. We can only send them

463
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 2: to places that are like completely fucked right, that's his attitude.

464
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why the first thing they came up with

465
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 3: was called the Ohio Plan.

466
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 2: Right right, right, Yes, So immediately after this he's promoted

467
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 2: and sent to Vienna. Austria had just been annexed by Germany,

468
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: and as the SD's duty as an expert, Eichman was

469
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 2: put in charge of an operation to convince Austria's Jews

470
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: to immigrate. Here he applied his experience from the corporate world,

471
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 2: cutting through red tape and ordering all the different agencies

472
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 2: who had a hand in the immigration process to combine

473
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 2: and operate out of a single physical space to speed

474
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 2: things up. He also does and obviously that works. That's

475
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: generally better, especially in this time where you don't have

476
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 2: the internet, if people are just like have to go

477
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 2: down a floor to like get this paperwork stamped by

478
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: another organization before this family can leave. Yeah, he also

479
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 2: does his normal thing of and this is a big

480
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 2: part of his logistical work. In this very early stage

481
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 2: of the Holocaust, he is directly interfacing with rabbis and

482
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 2: other representatives of the Jewish community in the different places

483
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 2: he's working, in this case Vienna, right where he will

484
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: sit down and say, look, there's all these different groups.

485
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 2: You know, You've got Orthodox folks, You've got folks who

486
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 2: are like these different kind of communities within Vienna. You

487
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 2: all need to form a single organization to represent you

488
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 2: and elect representatives so that I can negotiate with a

489
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 2: representative on behalf of all of you in order to

490
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 2: execute the plans that we're going to be executing to

491
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 2: try to push you guys out. Right, I want a

492
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 2: single umbrella organization, and that organization we will let raise

493
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: money from rich Jews to fund the immigration of poor

494
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 2: Jews out of Austria. Right, this is what he's doing

495
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 2: in this period of time.

496
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 3: And did you guys that form a government that represents

497
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 3: you so I can get rid of you?

498
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 2: So I can get rid of you, right. We need

499
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 2: you to centralize because I don't want to talk to

500
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: fucking forty different people to like actually like work this together. Right,

501
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 2: And despite his antipathy towards Zionism, he starts allowing Zionist

502
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: organizations to operate in Austria because he's primarily being judged

503
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: on what are the number It's like you know, with

504
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 2: ice right now, it's just how many what can we

505
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: get how many numbers can we get on the board?

506
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: Is the easiest thing to go after, like law abiding

507
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: people who were showing up in court the way they're

508
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 2: supposed to and just arrest them. That's easier, pumps our

509
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 2: numbers up. What Eikman's doing is like, look these Zionist organizations.

510
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: I just told everyone, I think it's a bad idea,

511
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 2: but they're getting people out, They've got money, and all

512
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 2: I'm being judged by is how fast Jews are leaving Austria.

513
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 2: Right That's all that matters to me, right now, you know,

514
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: right now, that's all that matters to him. In Germany,

515
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 2: Iikman had used charm to try and convince Jewish leaders

516
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 2: to meet with him. If that didn't work, he'd hold

517
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: up the SD's bloody reputation as a threat in Austria.

518
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: Armed with potent new legal authority, he simply subpoened every

519
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 2: Jewish community leader he wanted to meet. But Tina Stangneth

520
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 2: writes Iikman flaunted his black SS uniform, his writing crop,

521
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 2: and his knowledge of Judaism and Zionism. It Ulfh Boehm,

522
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: who had just completed the second volume of the History

523
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: of the Zionist movement learned that Eikman was one of

524
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 2: his most avid readers, who knew whole pages of the

525
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 2: first volume from memory. Bom realized that the SS was

526
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: going to use the knowledge he had painstakingly gathered as

527
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: its access point to the world of Jewish organizations and

528
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 2: as a weapon against the Jews. Eikman then explained what

529
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: he expected from the third volume, a lengthy chapter about himself,

530
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 2: Adolf Iikman as a pioneer of Zionism. The fact that

531
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 2: Adolf Bohm couldn't bear the thought and never wrote another

532
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 2: word tells us all we need to know, without even

533
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: thinking about what happened next, that this guy.

534
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 3: The scholar's like, wait, who's reading my boh no, I

535
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 3: imagine doing the convention circuit and then he comes up

536
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 3: to your desk like I retire forever. I'm not signed up.

537
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: I fucked up. I fucked up.

538
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 3: I think I need to be a cobbler.

539
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 2: If Aikman's my biggest fan, I made a mistake. I'm sorry.

540
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 2: This was I was not doing the right thing.

541
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 3: You have chosen poorly in life, and I say that

542
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 3: you need to find a new venture, Like.

543
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 2: I think we could all agree. If Adolf Eichmann is

544
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 2: your book's biggest fan, get rid of that book. Get

545
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 2: rid of that book.

546
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 3: It would be like if Plins came to one of

547
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 3: my live shows, like, yeah, show's over. I love your No.

548
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: No, we're hitting the wrong demo. So the guilt and

549
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 2: shame from this caused Boem to have a nervous breakdown,

550
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: for which he was institutionalized. As you may be aware,

551
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: the Nazis first started experimenting with zyklon B and with

552
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 2: gassing in general. They weren't using zyklon B yet as

553
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: part of the T four euthanasia program, which can be

554
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: accurately summarized as murdering disabled people. ADOLFH. Bohm was gassed

555
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 2: at the Hartheim euthanasia Center on April fourth, nineteen forty one.

556
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 2: His wife was gassed at Auschwitz in nineteen forty four.

557
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 2: Both of their children escaped to the West. Right a

558
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: guy that writes this book, Christ, Now, I've gotten ahead

559
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: of myself a little bit here. I just it's bleak stuff.

560
00:27:50,760 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 2: Speaking of bleak stuff, Ads, we're back. So where we

561
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 2: are in the story. Now the anglos has just happened.

562
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: Austria's Germany. Now Eichmann is currently in Vienna, tasked with

563
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: getting as many Jews to leave the country as possible.

564
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 2: Cesarini writes, quote, he established an assembly line system whereby

565
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: a Jew could end up at the Central Immigration office

566
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 2: with his papers and proceed from desk to desk until

567
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: he arrived at the end with a passport and an

568
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: exit visa, but stripped of his property cash, and writes,

569
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: within a few months the office had emigrated one hundred

570
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: and fifty thousand Jews. Now this is seen is a

571
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: massive success, not just by his boss Heidrich and the

572
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 2: SD but across the whole Nazi party. He was promoted again,

573
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: and after the annexation of Czechoslovakia, was ordered to repeat

574
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 2: his performance in Prague. He does this well, and he

575
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: winds up in late nineteen thirty nine, attached to a

576
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: major Gestapo office in Berlin and tasked with managing the

577
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: immigration of Jews from the entire Reich.

578
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 3: He's got great Nazis saber metrics, he really does, right

579
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 3: like that is he's a logistics guy, right like that.

580
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 3: His whole involvement in Zionism is all like well, these

581
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: people have like a already have a path to getting

582
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 3: folks out, even though I may not. I personally like

583
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 3: have already expressed why I don't think that's a great idea.

584
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 3: All that I care about is my career and this

585
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: will this puts numbers on the board for me. Right,

586
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 3: That's fundamentally who he is now.

587
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: By this point, by the point time after Prague, when

588
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: he's in Berlin and he's in charge of emigration out

589
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 2: of the Reich, of all of the Jews in the

590
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 2: Greater German Reich, he has fully become the man who

591
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 2: will ultimately organize the mass murder of about six million Jews. Right,

592
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: And Eichman loves being this guy. There is nothing banal

593
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: about it. He luxuriates in the power and prestige of

594
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: his position, and he describes himself as a member of

595
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: the ideological elite in the SS. One Jewish witness who

596
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,719
Speaker 2: met him at one of these meetings described and then

597
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: Eikman entered like a young god. He was very good

598
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 2: looking at that time, tall, black, shining ugh in Iikman

599
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: before Jerusalem staying death continues. His behavior too, was godlike.

600
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: He was master of arresting and then releasing people, of

601
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: banning institutions and then allowing them to resume. He initiated

602
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: and censored a Jewish newspaper, and eventually even got to

603
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: decide who could access the Jewish community's bank accounts. And

604
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: he's he loves this, right, this power, this I can

605
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: I can make your organization legal or illegal with a

606
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 2: snap of my hands. I have control over your community's

607
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: bank assets, right, and I get to use that to

608
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 2: make you do whatever I want. Right. I have gone

609
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 2: from being this middle manager to being this guy with like,

610
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: I am in charge of the Jewish people in the Reich. Right,

611
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: that's his position here.

612
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: He seems to be basking in the globe because the

613
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 3: banning and unbanning thing, to me is is more of

614
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 3: a clue than the bank account thing, because yeah, he's

615
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: controlling people that can come together. It's like, never mind

616
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 3: your band, never mind he can come together. I can

617
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 3: just do this all day.

618
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is totally within my power. By the

619
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: end of the nineteen thirties, he is famous across Central Europe,

620
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: not just within the small world of the SD but

621
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: among the entire remaining Jewish population in Central Europe. And

622
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: Eichman makes damn sure everyone knows he's the shot caller,

623
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: even when he isn't He bragged that The Zionist Review,

624
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: a German Jewish newspaper, was quote my newspaper because of

625
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: how extensively he'd exercised control over its contents.

626
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 3: That's Nazi stolen valor.

627
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's Yeah. Jews across the Reich wrote

628
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: about him to each other and in letters to relatives

629
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: and colleagues on the outside. So this is this is

630
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: the like the point at which people start talking about

631
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: Eichmann in newspapers and whatnot outside of Germany. And in fact,

632
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 2: he is the first guy directly associated with like implementation

633
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 2: of anti Jewish policies in Germany who gets discussed widely

634
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 2: outside of Europe.

635
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 3: Right, and somehow he's the guy that becomes the portrait

636
00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 3: of banality.

637
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's really not a Nazi rock star, yeah, exactly,

638
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: he's like a rock star of racism. Right, there's nothing

639
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 2: but all about it. Holocaust scholar Tom Segev pointed out

640
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: that while Eichman was not very high ranking on paper,

641
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: he is not a top member of the SS. He

642
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 2: answers to Reinhard Heydrich, right, and that's not his only

643
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: superior as other people who are his bosses on paper,

644
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: but he's answering to Hydrich, who is very high up

645
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: in the Nazi higherarchy and favored by Hitler, and Eichman

646
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 2: is the highest ranking member of the SS to sit

647
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: directly with Jews and talk to Jewish community leaders, right.

648
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: And as a result, this is Segev writing, the Jews

649
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: looked upon him and Hitler as the two adolfs who

650
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 2: perpetuated the Holocaust. So part of this is he's really

651
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: burnishing his image, and part of it is, you know,

652
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 2: every Jewish survivor obviously hates Hitler, but also they hate

653
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: Aikman because a lot of them were face to face

654
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: with him, they saw him interacting with their He's the guy.

655
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 3: Literally the face of their deportation misery right right exactly.

656
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 3: This is very helpful to his career in the immediate term.

657
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 3: It ensured he was taken seriously and that local Jewish leaders,

658
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 3: who still believe there could be some sort of compromise

659
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 3: with the Nazi state would bend over backwards to do

660
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 3: what he said. This makes it easy for him to

661
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 3: hit his quotas, which ensures his continued prestige and the

662
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: rise in his career prospects. By the immediate pre war period,

663
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 3: he'd been invited to meetings with Herman Gerring and was

664
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 3: known personally by guys like Joseph Gebbels and Heinrich Himmler

665
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 3: more than rank personal connection to famous figures in German

666
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 3: leadership or what insured one's position in the Reich. And

667
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 3: once once you see Eichmann with the literal reichs Marshal

668
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 3: Herman Gerring, right, the guy who supposed to take over

669
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 3: Hitler dies, right, he starts getting invited to things, right

670
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 3: because you're like, well, fuck, this guy's this guy's in, right,

671
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 3: we'd better if I want to be in i'd better

672
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 3: make sure he's at my parties. And so he starts

673
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 3: getting invited to these high end social functions. In nineteen

674
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 3: three eight, at age thirty two, he's invited to a

675
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 3: film industry ball in Vienna. He takes parts in parades

676
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 3: in annex Czechoslovakia, and when he has ideas for experiments

677
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 3: like creating forced labor camps for Jews in Austria, he's

678
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 3: allowed to divert funds and manpower to attempt them. Now ugh,

679
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 3: he's again, he's he's loving this right, both the flex

680
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 3: of power and the respect that he's giving He's never

681
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 3: the only mind behind implementation, right or execution. There's other

682
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 3: guys in the SD who are interested in labor camps

683
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 3: for their Jewish prisoners. But Eichmann is like the guy

684
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 3: who's helping to pitch this, and he's also making sure

685
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 3: his face is out in front of it because he

686
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 3: thinks it's a good idea. He is better than any

687
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 3: of his comrades at PR And he starts giving himself nicknames,

688
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 3: and his favorite nickname.

689
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 2: Is the Czar of the Jews.

690
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 3: Right, Oh my god, we love a guy who nicknames himself.

691
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 3: And the nicknames are always terrible awful, but it shows

692
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 3: you how he views himself, right, and what is satisfying. Yeah,

693
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 3: he's not satisfied in this point that he's eliminating these people.

694
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 3: He's satisfied primarily that they have to bow to him. Right,

695
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 3: that's his first high here, right. Yeah, he probably enjoys

696
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 3: that and the fact that people know that he's doing

697
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 3: it more than the fact that he's doing it, because

698
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 3: again we haven't talked about any of his like hardcore

699
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 3: anti Semitic writings or ideological turn like. This is all

700
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 3: careerism and self promotion. Yeah, for him, he would do

701
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 3: this if they weren't Jewish, he would do this to

702
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 3: some other group.

703
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he is writing very anti Semitic papers here,

704
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 2: But I think I think that the benefits to him

705
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: personally for going down this road are more a motivation.

706
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: Although he does he also makes himself increasingly anti Semitic

707
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: as he's doing this too, right, he is getting more

708
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 2: and more racist and more and more hateful.

709
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I could also see this as kind of

710
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 3: like fitting the part because before he got all these connections,

711
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,240
Speaker 3: people were spreading rumors about him having Jewish family members

712
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 3: because he was, you know, having let's say, FaceTime with

713
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 3: Jewish community leaders. So yeah, now he's like, no, I'm

714
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 3: going to do both. And now nobody is going to

715
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 3: be confused about this. And this is not, like, of course,

716
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 3: a good thing. That the fact that he's willing to

717
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 3: do this for bald face careerism is not a better

718
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 3: or worse.

719
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 2: No, it's not only by the time we get to

720
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: the Holocaust there is more than bald face careerism.

721
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 3: Then.

722
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think that's his I think that's what

723
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: a lot of this is right now.

724
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 3: Right.

725
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 2: He takes a lot of joy whenever he hears his

726
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 2: nicknames repeated in the wild by other people because it

727
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: proves that they're spreading, and he sees his name start

728
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 2: to be in constant use in Western newspapers around the world,

729
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 2: particularly like Socialist incliented papers, which are some of the

730
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 2: earliest ones to report on early stages of the Holocaust.

731
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 3: He must have loved that so much.

732
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: Oh, he fucking loves it. He makes a big show

733
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 2: about being angry at the Jewish press for calling him names,

734
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: but he has his staff members comb dozens of newspapers

735
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 2: from different countries looking for mentions of him, and like

736
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: clipping them out, and he keeps them in like he

737
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 2: has these little keepsake books for his news coverage.

738
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 3: God just rapidly coming up with new nicknames, like he's

739
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 3: Chris fucking Jericho.

740
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, and these two Like these nicknames,

741
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: and all of these the news clippings about him. He

742
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: uses them as weapons during his endless meetings with Jewish

743
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 2: community groups. Ben o' khone, a representative for the Jewish

744
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 2: community in Berlin, recalled one such meeting years later. It

745
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 2: began with a forceful attack by Eikman on the representatives

746
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 2: of the German Jews. He had a folder of press

747
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 2: cuttings in front of him for and of course, in

748
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 2: which Iikman was portrayed as a bloodhound who wanted to

749
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 2: kill the Jews. He read us excerpts from the Pariser

750
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,439
Speaker 2: Tagblot and asked if this was correct, and it said

751
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 2: the information had had to come from our circles. Who

752
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: spoke to Landau from the Ita It must have been

753
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 2: one of you. And it's interesting to me that he's

754
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 2: like he's taking these both to yell at them for

755
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: like who's talking to these different newspapers? How could they

756
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: possibly know? And also to show them look at how

757
00:37:59,080 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 2: they're talking about me.

758
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 3: Right, you need to take me seriously, right, And he

759
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 3: guys aren't going to blink at me when I hit

760
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 3: you with the teen vogue clipping right.

761
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: And bloodhound is a common title that members of the

762
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: SS get in this if they're very aggressive at pursuing Jews.

763
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 2: And Eikman, despite what he says in this meeting, is

764
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: proud to be called a bloodhound. Right. In Hungary in

765
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 2: nineteen forty four, he would introduce himself in meetings by saying,

766
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 2: do you know who I am? I am a bloodhound, right, like,

767
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,760
Speaker 2: that's what he's that's how he's talking about his see.

768
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 3: Crystal Faltz character.

769
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: Yes, the hero they call me right, yes, yeah. Now,

770
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: Eikman was by far the best known of his comrades,

771
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 2: and the fact that he really was deeply complicit shouldn't

772
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: obscure the reality that he also exaggerated his involvement and

773
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 2: responsibility for clout. He was not the only guy with

774
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 2: nicknames like this. Once the Nazis invaded Poland with the

775
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 2: ussr Amon Goeth became the head of a concentration camp

776
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: in Crackow and earned the nickname Emperor of Crackow. This

777
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 2: put him right up there with Joseph of Weitzel, one

778
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: of Iikman's top employees and commandant of a camp in Doppel,

779
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 2: which earned him the nickname the Jews Emperor of Doppel.

780
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 2: Right Christ, Yeah.

781
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 3: If memory Cesaray is an am on Goth the camp

782
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 3: commander that was so corrup the Nazis fired him.

783
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe he was the one that got shit

784
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 2: canned for being so fucking like yes, oh man, So

785
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 2: we don't really know like how often these nicknames are,

786
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: you know, things that he came up with himself. How

787
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 2: many of them are things that like people in Europe

788
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: came up to describe him because of how major he is,

789
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 2: But he was a lot of the time he created

790
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 2: his own nickname. Right during like, well, he's in Argentina

791
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 2: and hanging out with other escape Nazi friends, he would

792
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 2: brag to them that he had been nicknamed the Jews Pope.

793
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 2: And there's no evidence of this that anyone ever called

794
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 2: This is a nickname he made up for himself, Like,

795
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 2: no one would have called you that, Adolph Eikman.

796
00:39:58,280 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 3: Do you hear what they call me in Vienna? They

797
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,439
Speaker 3: call me Thunderbird? Right? Is that cool? Yeah?

798
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 2: He also told friends, the men in my command had

799
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 2: the kind of respect for me that prompted the Jews

800
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 2: to effectively set me on a throne. Right, This is

801
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 2: very important to him that, like he'd be seen as

802
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 2: having been worshiped by these people who were under his thumb. Right,

803
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 2: that's a massive deal for Adolph Eikman. Now, he's often

804
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: depicted as a fanatic driven by hatred, but in deep reading,

805
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 2: I see ego as at least as much a driver

806
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: of his actions. He certainly hated and his bigotry only

807
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 2: increased alongside his power, but I read a hunger for

808
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 2: power and respect that drowned out other motivations A lot

809
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 2: of the time. Eikman did not rise through the Nazi

810
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: hierarchy because he was a fanatic. He became a fanatic

811
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 2: because Nazism offered him an opportunity to be a great man,

812
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: one which no other system would have afforded him. Now,

813
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 2: the conquest of half of Poland presents a problem for Iikman.

814
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 2: Prior to the Nazis invading, Jews had made up about

815
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 2: one percent of the population of the Reich, which is

816
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: about half a million people out of a population of

817
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 2: sixty seven million. Significant numbers of these folks had immigrated,

818
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 2: and in general the Austrian and Czech Jewish populations were

819
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: also comparatively small, right, which had made it easy for

820
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: Eikman to put up good numbers using the tactics we've discussed.

821
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: Almost three and a half million Jews lived in Poland

822
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 2: prior to World War II. This meant overnight the task

823
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 2: on Aikman's lap increased by an order of magnitude. Per

824
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 2: a BBC article titled Eikman, Mind of a War Criminal,

825
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 2: Eikman explored a fresh option to porting Jews to a

826
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 2: designated Jewish territory. He traveled to Poland to identify an

827
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 2: appropriate location and then ordered that thousands of Czech and

828
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 2: Viennese Jews be rounded up and sent eastward to lay

829
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 2: the basis for this territorial solution. Within a few months, however,

830
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 2: the plan was scrapped Eikman's office lacked the resources for it,

831
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 2: an other SS project sad preference. At the same time,

832
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 2: he was brutally evicting hundreds of thousands of Poles and

833
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 2: Jews to make way for ethnic Germans transplanted from Eastern

834
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 2: Europe into the newly annexed areas of the Reich. As

835
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: a temporary measure, the displaced Jews were packed into ghettos,

836
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 2: but where would they go? Eventually, after the fall of France,

837
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: I took up a plan emanating from the German Foreign

838
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 2: Office to ship four million European Jews to Madagascar. And

839
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 2: he's not the author of the Madagascar Plan, but he

840
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: is for a while kind of its most prominent like adherent, right,

841
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 2: which is this idea that like, we got to get

842
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 2: these people out of Europe, and maybe we could if

843
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 2: they live in Madagascar, that'll be fine, right, it'll be

844
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: safer for Yeah, this is.

845
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 3: Why those movies were dangerous. They give people ideas.

846
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you think different things about Madagascar, includ the

847
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: fact that there's already a plenty of people.

848
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 3: There, a lot of people, yeah, famously.

849
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now this is also the Madagascar Plan because this

850
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 2: doesn't really happen, It never gets close to happening. But

851
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: it's evidence that the Holocaust was not necessarily a given

852
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: from the jump. As we'll talk about, you can find

853
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: quotes from Hitler and other top Nazis going back to

854
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: the twenties that can be seen as preludes to the Holocaust,

855
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 2: but it wasn't a settled plan until the early forties.

856
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's something of an unfair amount of weight

857
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 3: that gets put on the Madagascar plan. Like, no, obviously,

858
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 3: of course with Holocaust, the diers, like the ones that

859
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 3: acknowledge that the camps exist, that but the people died

860
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 3: from like disease or whatever is the track that they take,

861
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 3: Like there is these detailed plans in place to send

862
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 3: all these people the Madagascar. Yeah, rather than it was

863
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 3: drawings on a drunk person's napkin.

864
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 2: They talked about a lot of shit right, that they

865
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 2: didn't come close to doing right exactly. And Iikman, you know,

866
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 2: the reason he gets involved is not that he is

867
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 2: a major believer in this. It's that any new idea

868
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 2: that comes through his office he tries to stick himself

869
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 2: to because, like, you know, if it fails, he's not

870
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 2: the guy who instituted it, but if it succeeds, his

871
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 2: name's attached to it.

872
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, it's good for him either way. He

873
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 3: doesn't lose anything, He only has things to gain. Right.

874
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 2: In nineteen thirty nine, after the invasion of Poland, Iikman

875
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: briefly championed a plan to remove Jewish people from newly

876
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 2: conquered and absorbed territory to a reservation guarded by the

877
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: Nazis near Lublin. Thousands of people were forcibly transferred to

878
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: what became a ghetto before the plan was abandoned in

879
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 2: the spring of nineteen forty. And this is they were

880
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 2: very much looking at what the US government had done

881
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: to Native Americans, and we're like, well, maybe we can

882
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 2: do something like that with the Jews, right, maybe we

883
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 2: like we find a chunk of land that's like our

884
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 2: Oklahoma that we don't really want, and we put them

885
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: all there and we just kind of like keep them

886
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 2: locked there. Right, that's the basic idea. And it's evidence

887
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 2: of you know again, how much of all of this

888
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 2: is based off of them looking at the United States

889
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 2: and being like, well, shit, this seems to be working

890
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 2: for them, right, Yeah, speaking of things that work for

891
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 2: us advertising.

892
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 3: Wow, Yeah, this ad brought to you by the Oklahoma

893
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 3: Tourism Board.

894
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Oklahoma, the lubland of America. Yes, sorry

895
00:44:50,920 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: to both Lovelin and to Oklahoma. So as the Second

896
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 2: World War gets a movin and Germany blazes through France

897
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 2: and then starts tearing through big old chunks of western Russia,

898
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 2: the fevered egos of men like Iikmen, who now feel

899
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: like masters of the universe, gave a way to ever

900
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 2: more sweeping eliminationist concepts. In September of nineteen forty one,

901
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 2: Iikman lobbied successfully to extend the definition of a Jew

902
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: to include half Jews. Right. He had loud conflicts with

903
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 2: those among the party who argued that people with just

904
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 2: one Jewish grandparents shouldn't count, or that Jews who converted

905
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: to Christianity weren't Jewish. And Iikman is on the no, no, no,

906
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 2: it's all about the blood. Any drop of it is

907
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 2: somebody we got to get rid of, right.

908
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 3: Once again, taking it from the United States and the

909
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 3: one drop.

910
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,919
Speaker 2: The one drop rule. Right now, he moves from city

911
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 2: to city, orchestrating the expulsion of one local Jewish population

912
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: after the other. From Sizeken and Posen, he forces tens

913
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 2: of thousands of people into ghettos far from home. The

914
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 2: horror of forced resettlement earns him even more media attention,

915
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 2: and uses it in meetings with Jewish leaders in other

916
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: cities to say, hey, if you don't make sure your

917
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 2: people leave when I tell them to leave and we

918
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 2: meet our immigration quotas, I can do to you what

919
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 2: I did in Posen. Right, you read the news, right,

920
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 2: that was all me, baby, Right, you got to do

921
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 2: what I You know you don't want that here. By

922
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 2: this point in forty one, the international press is increasingly

923
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 2: reporting on the violence and mass killing that had often

924
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 2: followed such resettlement campaigns. Eikman's not always involved in these

925
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 2: mass killings, and in these reasons, he's not doing all

926
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: the resettlement. He's not the only guy doing this. Right,

927
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 2: there are a lot of war crimes being committed in

928
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 2: forty one, and he's not central to most of them.

929
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 2: He's not running the Einset scrupin.

930
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 3: Right on the Eastern Front, right, He's just the one

931
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 3: that seems to be really comfortable putting his face on it, exactly.

932
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 2: And so he gets credit for a lot of massacres

933
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 2: in the foreign media that he was not involved with.

934
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 2: And sometimes this was done out of pure habit right

935
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 2: where they would be like, oh, and Eikman must have

936
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 2: ordered this, because he's the guy everyone knows is doing

937
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 2: stuff like this, right, And at the time, Eikman is

938
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 2: proud to take the credit, right, He's like, yeah, absolutely,

939
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 2: I'll take the blame for that share stolen valor. Once again,

940
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: he's stealing valor from even worse Nazis. Although yeah, maybe that.

941
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 3: I'm stealing valor from Nazis so you can get a

942
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 3: discount at Nazi Chilis, right.

943
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 2: Yes, he's putting fake Nazi medals on is in the uniform.

944
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 3: Now.

945
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 2: He is so proud of his reputation that when Heinrich

946
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 2: Himler announced an exhibition celebrating the mass resettlement campaign titled

947
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 2: The Great Homecoming, which was essentially meant to be a

948
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 2: big pr announcement for the opening of the Holocaust. Himmler

949
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 2: plans it with the goal of burnishing his own image

950
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 2: right Himler's plan is like, I want to be seen

951
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 2: as the guy who was responsible for this. But Aikman's like, hey, boss,

952
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: I should get like like a room in this big

953
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 2: thing for like the stuff I've been doing, right, Like

954
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 2: you know I did good, didn't I shouldn't I get

955
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 2: like a whole room. That's just about what Iikman did

956
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: to help with this resettlement campaign, and Himmler eventually agrees

957
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: that he'll get a special haul in the exhibit to

958
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: share his achievement to the masses. Stengneth writes, the main

959
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 2: welfare office for ethnic Germans objected, preferring to leave this

960
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 2: section out for fear of a negative public reaction. Pictures

961
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,240
Speaker 2: of happy new settlers were one thing, numbers and images

962
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 2: of people who had been expelled were another. But Eichman's

963
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: pressure was for nothing. The exhibition was postponed until June

964
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 2: nineteen forty one, and having viewed it, Himmler canceled it

965
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 2: at the last minute, putting off the experts who had

966
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 2: provided the content until March nineteen forty two. The exhibition

967
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 2: never took place, in part because the success that was

968
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 2: hoped for was never achieved.

969
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, he didn't learn his lesson from Hydrake, like, yeah,

970
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,919
Speaker 3: you don't show people the shit that you're doing.

971
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 2: No, no, no, Iikeman's all in, Yeah, I want my

972
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 2: name in a whole room, and Himmler like sees the

973
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 2: plans for this bragging about the early Holocaust party and

974
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 2: is like, I don't know, man, I don't think I

975
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 2: want that shit out. I don't think I want my

976
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 2: name attached to this. Actually, but you made head.

977
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 3: You made Himmler uncomfortable, right right? Yeah.

978
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 2: The only other thing that did that was Literalitz.

979
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 3: Yes.

980
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 2: So the other reason this gets canceled is that by

981
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 2: March of nineteen forty two, the Wehrmacht has gone through

982
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 2: its first winter on the Eastern Front, and it's become

983
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 2: obvious to any intelligent Nazis that this is not going

984
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: to be a quicker, easy war right now. I don't

985
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 2: think they're all aware that defeat is a foregone conclusion,

986
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 2: although they probably should have. But a fear starts to

987
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 2: set in that both allides the desire to brag about

988
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 2: what's being done, and introduces a growing sense of desperation

989
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 2: to solve the Jewish questions sooner than later. In early

990
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 2: nineteen forty one, Himmler had given orders to deport all

991
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 2: remaining Berlin and Viennese Jews at the end of the war,

992
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 2: which was expected imminently. By October, it was clear that

993
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 2: this would not be the case, and the growing desperation

994
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 2: of the Eastern Front acted as a justification for more

995
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: extreme acts of violence. As revenge, a new deportation campaign

996
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 2: was executed in Berlin by the SD. A Swedish newspaper

997
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 2: at the time, described the campaign began on the night

998
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,959
Speaker 2: of October si seventeenth. People were pulled from their beds

999
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 2: by the SS in order to get dressed and pack

1000
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 2: a suitcase. Then they were immediately taken away, their apartment

1001
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 2: sealed and everything in them confiscated. Those who had been

1002
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 2: arrested were taken to railroad freight depots and ruined synagogues

1003
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 2: and transported east on October nineteenth. They were all old

1004
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 2: men between fifty and eighty, women and children. They will

1005
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 2: be used for useful work in the East, which means

1006
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 2: drying out the Rokeitino marshes, the work will be done

1007
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,280
Speaker 2: during the Russian winter by old men, women and children,

1008
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 2: and the clothes in which they were arrested. There can

1009
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 2: now be no doubt that this campaign is premeditated mass murder.

1010
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 2: The campaign leader is SS Group and Feuer Aikman, and

1011
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 2: we see in this from the switchpaper a great example

1012
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 2: of the half accurate reporting. Right, the broad strokes of

1013
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 2: the deportation are correct. Aikman is involved in it, but

1014
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 2: he's not running it. He's not the campaign leader of

1015
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 2: the program. And he's also not a group in fewer

1016
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 2: right that ranked roughly equivalents to lieutenant general, and he

1017
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 2: never reaches that high. So Stenge suspects that he gets

1018
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 2: given this rank by the press because they can't imagine

1019
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 2: someone they've heard about so much as anything but like

1020
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 2: a central spoke to the Nazi party, right, Like he's.

1021
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 3: Well connected, hanger on.

1022
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think his I think his actual rank

1023
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 2: is close to like a major captive, but like that's

1024
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 2: just not high enough. We gotta bump it up, right,

1025
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 2: otherwise he's not going to seem as central as we've

1026
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: decided he is.

1027
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:25,800
Speaker 3: I think it also owes to a lot of modern

1028
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 3: misunderstandings of how the Nazi government and the infrastructure worked.

1029
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 3: Where everyone likes to say that or believe rather that

1030
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 3: it all function a certain kind of way because you know,

1031
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 3: Germans are just very efficient, and you know, it was

1032
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 3: a militarist culture so had to be run this way.

1033
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,399
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah. No, it was just a bunch

1034
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 3: of weird connected barnacles. Ranks were involved, but they're mostly

1035
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 3: just window dressing for people wearing incredibly overdone uniforms. Right,

1036
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 3: but it really didn't matter.

1037
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what matters most is your connection, like who

1038
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 2: you know, right, yeah, yeah, which is you know the

1039
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 2: case with all authoritarian organizations like this.

1040
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1041
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 2: Now, alongside the German invasion of Russia, the Indsets group

1042
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 2: and had started carrying out the first mass killings of

1043
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 2: Jews of what would come to be known as the Holocaust.

1044
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 2: Eichmann has nothing to do with organizing this part of it.

1045
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 2: But it becomes rapidly clear that just shooting millions of

1046
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 2: people is not practical. Right, there's a number. First off,

1047
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 2: bullets are going to be a problem for Germany, right,

1048
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 2: Like they don't have enough of anything, let alone bullets.

1049
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 2: Second problem, this kind of destroys your elite troops, which

1050
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 2: is what they're using. Like they're using guys who are

1051
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 2: like would be usable as fighters and shooting babies all day,

1052
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 2: even for guys who suck as much as the Insets

1053
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 2: group it does. It just kind of ruins human beings right,

1054
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 2: Like they're not able to handle it for a long Yeah,

1055
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 2: they all start killing each other. Drinking, Yeah, yeah, drinking

1056
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 2: is a major problem. And so they start experimenting with

1057
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 2: other ways. And one place they start experimenting is with

1058
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 2: the use of gas fans at a place called Helm

1059
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 2: And in that summer of like nineteen forty two, Iikman

1060
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 2: travels to the east to or of nineteen forty one, sorry,

1061
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:14,879
Speaker 2: in the summer forty one, Iikman travels to the East

1062
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 2: to observe the process these first gas fans in use.

1063
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 2: He spends that summer and the later part of the

1064
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 2: year and what becomes a fact finding mission for the

1065
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: Vonse Conference in early nineteen forty two, which is the

1066
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 2: meeting where the Nazis are going to lay out their

1067
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 2: plan for the final solution. So Heidrich basically has him

1068
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 2: being like, hey, the East is our laboratory for killing Jews.

1069
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,760
Speaker 2: I want you to talk to the folks doing the shooting,

1070
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 2: go see some of these gas fans and how they work,

1071
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 2: and come back to us with information on the best

1072
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 2: way to kill a lot of people at scale, because

1073
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 2: we're going to start next year ramping up the actual

1074
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 2: extermination of all of these Jews that we've gotten hold

1075
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 2: of in the parts of Europe we've conquered.

1076
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 3: He puts them in charge of the Holocaust soft launch.

1077
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 2: Right, right, Yeah, And he's largely he's like fact finding, right,

1078
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 2: so that we can we need to know how quickly

1079
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 2: can you guess people, how much does it take? What

1080
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:06,800
Speaker 2: are the best kinds of guess what we need to

1081
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 2: know to start constructing these camps?

1082
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 3: Right.

1083
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 2: Iikman is going to be a big part of getting

1084
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 2: that information right. And again you see both he's not

1085
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 2: what he claims. He's not leading this. Iikman didn't make

1086
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 2: the call to do a holocaust, but he's the guy

1087
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 2: who's respected intellectually as an expert, and when it becomes

1088
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 2: clear we're going to do a holocaust, they go to

1089
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 2: him and are like, hey, it off, we got a

1090
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 2: job for you. We get a guy for that, need

1091
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: you to gather some info you're good at that, right,

1092
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 2: You're good at gathering information. Come help us with this.

1093
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 3: Everybody's sitting around the office. We need to build how

1094
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 3: many camps? I got a guy for that.

1095
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 2: Give me my camp guy, Yeah, give me my camp guy.

1096
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:42,879
Speaker 2: Bring an old ike.

1097
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, we sent him to concentration camp, night school. He

1098
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 3: should know how to do this.

1099
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 2: He's probably good at this by now. And yeah, well

1100
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,919
Speaker 2: we'll talk about that and more in part three. Joe,

1101
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 2: how are you feeling?

1102
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 3: Just wonderful? Robert, Yeah, absolutely wonderful. I set myself up

1103
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 3: for failure for this one because I came to this

1104
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 3: Like last time I was on here, we talked about

1105
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 3: Lorenzi Berrier for four hours. What could you do? That's

1106
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 3: worse than that? And you've showed me, You've showed me

1107
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 3: real good.

1108
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 2: Yep, yep.

1109
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 3: I've been hoisted by my own petard.

1110
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 2: We all love our patards. Are we allowed to say

1111
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 2: petard anymore? I don't know. You can't say the hard

1112
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 2: p you can't say the art fe It just sounds wrong. Great,

1113
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 2: all right, everybody, this has been behind the Bastards a podcast. Joe,

1114
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 2: do you have anything you want to plug?

1115
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 3: Yeah? I am the host of the lines of My

1116
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,439
Speaker 3: Donkey's podcast. We talked about history, military history, genocide, you know, fun,

1117
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 3: lighthearted stuff like that. If you want to hear more

1118
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 3: about the Eastern Front in winter, we talked about the

1119
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 3: Battle of Stalingrad for I believe five hours, so you

1120
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 3: can go listen to that series and we do all

1121
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 3: sorts of stuff like that.

1122
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 2: Fantastic, excellent, All right, well, everybody, Bye bye.

1123
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1124
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1125
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1126
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

1127
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1128
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 1: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

1129
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: at Behind the Bastards