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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know front House Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Eager Beaver, Chuckers, Brian ready to get

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Speaker 1: its therapeutic hypothermia on. Yeah, baby, I'm chilling moving at

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Speaker 1: a glacial pace today, right I am. Um, I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: for that. That was actually a poke at the author

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Speaker 1: of this article. Yeah, that's uh. That stood out to

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Speaker 1: me as well. I'm not telling you. Jerry's over there

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Speaker 1: and she's stuff you should know. No. Um, Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: were gooking off about this article and how stuff works

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Speaker 1: that there were a way too many cold puns for

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Speaker 1: my liking. There's a lot of puns, you know, a

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Speaker 1: lot lots of them. Yeah, this article stinks of pun reeks.

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Speaker 1: So how you doing, man, How you feeling? I'm good. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It seems there's a sickness going around the office. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which I thought we knew here in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: fifteen that if you're sick, you don't come into work,

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Speaker 1: especially when you have a liberal telecommune policy right like

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Speaker 1: we do. I realized, um, I realized that people need

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Speaker 1: to come in and shoot video and record and all

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Speaker 1: that but come in, you do that, and you leave,

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Speaker 1: and you wear like a plague doctor's mask the whole

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Speaker 1: time you're here too. Yeah, I mean I have a

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Speaker 1: bio hazard suit at my desk that has a RiPP

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Speaker 1: in it. Anyone can wear it, has a rippen it,

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Speaker 1: very small rental and cleaning the You're going to take

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Speaker 1: a blood sample of mine wearing that thing. And it

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Speaker 1: occurred to me as you were about to put it on,

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Speaker 1: like I don't know where that thing has been, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's a real bio hazard suit and Chuck's going to

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Speaker 1: use it to open my skin. Yeah, this sounds very odd. Um,

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Speaker 1: we don't just do this in the office. We did

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Speaker 1: our blood Types episode live here in Atlanta, and we

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Speaker 1: actually took Josh's blood type on stage because you didn't

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Speaker 1: know it. No, I when we recorded the version in

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Speaker 1: the studio, I genuinely did not know it. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I took your blood on stage. You trusted me. I

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Speaker 1: did not wear the contaminated suit. No, you you just

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Speaker 1: used your dirty hands with no like rubber gloves or anything.

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Speaker 1: Look at you. You're fine ish and you know your

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Speaker 1: blood type now, which was a positive us guy, So

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Speaker 1: we should release that whole live show is a just

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Speaker 1: a special yeah, little bonus. Yeah, bonus. That was the

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Speaker 1: word I was looking for. There's something special about it.

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Speaker 1: It's just a bonus. It was special. Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: good idea. Look for that soon, people. So today, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about therapeutic hypothermia and I am very excited

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Speaker 1: about this. This is my idea of this article. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty neat. I don't remember. I guess I first

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Speaker 1: heard of it from that Mosaic article that we both

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Speaker 1: read to the big sleep Awesome article. And uh, if

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Speaker 1: you haven't figured out by now, we have started to

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Speaker 1: on the podcast page for each episode, put related links

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Speaker 1: on there on our site stuff you should know dot com,

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Speaker 1: so that articles on there. There's a bunch of other

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Speaker 1: stuff on there too that will cover um. But be

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Speaker 1: sure to check out that Mosaic article. It's very neat.

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Speaker 1: Um and that article first introduced me to the concept

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Speaker 1: of therapeutic hypothermia or medically induced hypothermia as another another

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Speaker 1: term for it, I don't prefer target targeted temperature management.

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Speaker 1: That sounds yeah corporate, Yeah, very corporate. You know the

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Speaker 1: HMO term for it, Like, well, we'll call it this

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Speaker 1: because it'll lessen the likelihood that we'll get sued or

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Speaker 1: something exactly. Yes, um, But it's been around for a while,

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Speaker 1: and the the idea that exposing people to lower temperatures

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Speaker 1: to allow for better medical interventions, which is the whole

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Speaker 1: basis of therapeutic hypothermia UM, has been around at least

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Speaker 1: since the napoleon Onic Wars. Yeah, it's pretty neat. I

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Speaker 1: was interested to find that out. They noticed way back

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Speaker 1: when in the eighteen hundreds early eighteen hundreds that troops

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Speaker 1: in battlefield trauma wounded soldiers would the ones who were

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Speaker 1: not kept warm and cozy by the fire or in

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Speaker 1: their tents, right, they're just left out on the battlefield

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Speaker 1: and the cold. Yeah, they actually fared better. And they

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Speaker 1: were like, wait a minute, is uh? And of course

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Speaker 1: they had no idea at the time what was going on. No,

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Speaker 1: They're like, did you notice that, Yes, I did notice

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Speaker 1: that they're hardy back to our brand, Yeah, pretty much.

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Speaker 1: But they did notice that the ones who were warm

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Speaker 1: did a lot worse than the ones that were left

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Speaker 1: out in the cold, which is super interesting. Yeah, But

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Speaker 1: the the real investigation into what was going on there

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Speaker 1: didn't start until the thirties. With a guy named Dr

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Speaker 1: Temple Faye, and he was actually the first guy to

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Speaker 1: write about using therapeutic hypothermia. I think in nineteen was

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Speaker 1: the first paper about it, but he was using it

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Speaker 1: for a full decade or so before then, basically putting

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Speaker 1: his patients in ice ba ads, opening the windows to

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Speaker 1: their room during the winter and um, just basically using

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Speaker 1: any means he could to lower the temperature for I

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Speaker 1: think I think he had he was using it on

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Speaker 1: traumatic brain injury patients. Yeah, and I'm sure he did

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Speaker 1: a lot of explaining along the way to family members

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Speaker 1: that were like, hey, can you close the window and

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Speaker 1: warm up my husband here? And that He was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, you want him to die? I think back

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Speaker 1: then too, he was like, it's the thirties and this

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Speaker 1: guy is a traumatic brain injury. Really, there's nothing I

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Speaker 1: can do to make it worse, the prospects worse, So

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Speaker 1: why don't you just lighten up their family member? So

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Speaker 1: there was another pioneer in the fifties named Dr Peter

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Speaker 1: safar Um s A f a R. And he actually

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Speaker 1: began experimenting around with this in the e er as well,

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Speaker 1: trying to reduce tissue injury. Uh, and brain damage from

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Speaker 1: a lack of blood flow. Uh. And this was mainly

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Speaker 1: at the time in like stroke patients, cardiac arrest patients

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Speaker 1: and what we'll talk more about it. There's all sorts

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Speaker 1: of well not all sorts. There are several uses, like

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Speaker 1: cases where you would want to use this and um,

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Speaker 1: ranging from cardiac arrest to like a gunshot wound. To think,

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Speaker 1: what is the infant situation. It is called chuck. It's

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Speaker 1: a type of encephalofy where UM, basically the blood flow,

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Speaker 1: the lack of blood flow to the brains cut off

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, like maybe the umbilical cord gets rappy

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Speaker 1: on the baby's neck or what have you. Um, it

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Speaker 1: leads to a swelling in the brain. And they started

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Speaker 1: using it to medical hypothermia to treat that. That's right,

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Speaker 1: And that was in the fifties, right, Yeah, the fifties

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Speaker 1: and sixties is when Dr Safar was doing his work.

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Speaker 1: So this this is all kind of going on on

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Speaker 1: the side. And um experiments into hypothermia had kind of

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Speaker 1: a bad name thanks to the Nazis and a little

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Speaker 1: bit also the Japanese and World War two. But the Nazis,

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Speaker 1: especially at Dachau, the concentration camp or the death camp.

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Speaker 1: There um experimented using unwilling human subjects. Uh, they experimented

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Speaker 1: on the effects of hypothermia people's bodies. They did all

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Speaker 1: manner of horrible, grizzly, gruesome stuff, but they recorded the data.

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Speaker 1: And there was a long debate over the years over

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Speaker 1: whether that data could be ethically used. And on one hand,

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Speaker 1: people were saying, no, it's the Nazis. They used unwilling subjects,

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Speaker 1: as it amounted to torture in the name of science,

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Speaker 1: and I just used air air quotes, right, And then

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Speaker 1: other people said, well, wait a minute, these people died,

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Speaker 1: um whether and we're whether they wanted to or not.

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Speaker 1: They were made to be these test subjects and they

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Speaker 1: gave their lives. We can honor them at least by

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Speaker 1: using the data that was cold from it. Well, once

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Speaker 1: they really dug into the data that the Nazis had accumulated,

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Speaker 1: it was just like rank amateurs performing scientific experiments. They

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Speaker 1: followed like almost no protocol. They did terrible record keeping

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Speaker 1: of descriptions of subjects and things like that. So um,

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Speaker 1: it's almost like you just have to toss it out

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Speaker 1: because you just can't trust it scientifically. The data. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: but the idea that people were exposed forcibly to hypothermic

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Speaker 1: conditions kind of gave hypothermia a bad name. So these

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Speaker 1: guys experimenting with this stuff, it was fringe science for

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Speaker 1: a while, and then it started to come into the

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Speaker 1: mainstream and then everybody said, well, wait a minute, hypothermia

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Speaker 1: has all these bad side effects. Let's just table it

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Speaker 1: for now. Yeah, and the in the fifties two, NASA

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Speaker 1: was doing a lot of work during the space Race

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Speaker 1: because the idea was and this is really sort of

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Speaker 1: two parts. There's the the modern day uh cooling like

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Speaker 1: that's not freezing somebody basically, and then you also have

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Speaker 1: what's called suspended animation, which we'll get too later. Those

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Speaker 1: are totally different things, totally different things, but they follow

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Speaker 1: the same process initially, right Yeah, um, well sort of.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the methods are different, but the same idea

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Speaker 1: basically is to slow the body down, sown the heart rate,

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Speaker 1: slow down everything. Yeah. Um, but NASA was doing this

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Speaker 1: because they put a lot of money into it because

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Speaker 1: they thought two things. One you could protect astronauts from

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Speaker 1: a cosmic rays and the other is basically straight up

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Speaker 1: alien like, we can freeze people on long journeys into space,

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Speaker 1: and then unfreezing when they get there, which is not

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Speaker 1: just alien that's a bunch of sci fi movies. But

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Speaker 1: there was a doctor named James Lovelock back in the

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Speaker 1: day who was um freezing hamsters until they froze and

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Speaker 1: then basically until he couldn't hear heartbeat. Frozen. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: were clinically dead. Yeah, and then they would he would

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Speaker 1: put a little uh, a little hot teaspoon against their

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Speaker 1: belly and warm them back up, and he found that

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Speaker 1: they were actually okay, and he was able to revive

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Speaker 1: them some of them. Well yeah, I'm sure there were

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Speaker 1: losses along them, but I mean even one coming back

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Speaker 1: to life and seeming normal again is pretty significant. It's

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Speaker 1: a significant finding, Yeah, because basically the idea was planted

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden that hypothermia can kill you or

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Speaker 1: it can preserve you and keep you from dying in

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Speaker 1: an extreme situation, right, which is kind of counterintuitive, Like

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Speaker 1: you think of people who undergo hypothermia or you know,

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Speaker 1: being exposed to extremely cold temperatures, they're dead. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we've all seen the shining, we know the end. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But apparently there's a rule of thumb among e er

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Speaker 1: physicians and staff that there's no such thing as a

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Speaker 1: cold dead body. I thought it was measured twice cut once.

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Speaker 1: It's a little different. That's for the surgeons. Um, No,

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Speaker 1: there's no such thing as a as a cold dead body.

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Speaker 1: You're only dead when you're warm and dead, right, Because well,

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Speaker 1: there's been some some cases throughout the years, the one,

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Speaker 1: that spectacular one. Yeah, this lady um was she with

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Speaker 1: Norwegian on a boggenhorn. Um, I don't even know what

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Speaker 1: that is. It's not an oom out, it's a single

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Speaker 1: circle above that a. It's very Norwegian. Yeah, um death

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Speaker 1: metal band name totally. Uh So she was skiing and um,

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Speaker 1: actually I think she was Swedish, but she was on

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Speaker 1: holiday skiing in Norway. Um fell headfirst into a frozen

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Speaker 1: stream and was trapped under ice, submerged for eighty minutes,

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Speaker 1: stopped breathing, hearts stopped. H Yeah, I mean she was

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Speaker 1: well known. She didn't drown. They thought she drowned until

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Speaker 1: they reheated her. Ten days they reheated her and she

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Speaker 1: was fine. Like weeks and months later she fully recovered.

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Speaker 1: And basically, if you're underwater warm water, you have a

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Speaker 1: few minutes at most. But what they discovered it was

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Speaker 1: if you actually go into hypothermia, it can preserve your body. Um,

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Speaker 1: which was amazing and a big breakthrough into like, hey,

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Speaker 1: maybe we can use this right. Yeah, she was one

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Speaker 1: of a few a handful of people, and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about some others too, But um, that what researchers into

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Speaker 1: hypothermia I've learned and why they figured out that they're

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Speaker 1: you're not cold and dead, you're just warm and dead,

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Speaker 1: is that it's not the the the addition of cold

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Speaker 1: for the exposure to cold that kills you. It's warming

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Speaker 1: back up in the wrong way too rapidly under the

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Speaker 1: wrong circumstances, stances that that's what can kill you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems like it's a very fine line between well,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about the process, but you have to do

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Speaker 1: it just right on the cooling side and the warming

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Speaker 1: side if you want to be successful right exactly. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's uh, they haven't quite figured it all out yet.

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Speaker 1: This is in the very uh nascent stages. It is

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Speaker 1: ridiculously primitive and and to the point where it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like, if you're a doctor experimenting with this, you

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Speaker 1: you would be like, there's a hud chance that your

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Speaker 1: dad is going to die under normal circumstances. We have

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Speaker 1: this one radical technique we can try that might help.

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Speaker 1: Can we try this? And that that that whether the

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Speaker 1: dad lives or dies after being given medical hypothermia, he's

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Speaker 1: still going to end up as like the subject of

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Speaker 1: a major paper that would be written, because that's where

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Speaker 1: it's at right now. Yeah, And I read one doctor

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Speaker 1: said that they they think they pretty much know it's

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Speaker 1: super possible and will work, he said, but it's the

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Speaker 1: doing of it that's just really really hard exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like it makes a complete sense intuitively, we

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Speaker 1: understand like what it's doing. It's just yeah, the fine tuning,

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Speaker 1: the nuance behind it that is still kind of a mysterious.

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Speaker 1: The most brilliant doctors say, this's just really hard. He said,

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Speaker 1: it's really dog gone hard to do. It kind of

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Speaker 1: makes you go, you know that he know. His quote was,

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Speaker 1: it's really dog gone hard. And then my quote was,

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Speaker 1: so we'll talk about medical hypothermia and what it is specifically,

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Speaker 1: uh in just a minute, all right, So therapeutic hypothermia.

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Speaker 1: Hypothermia is basically when you lower the body temperature for

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Speaker 1: various reasons to keep it alive. And right now, what

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Speaker 1: they're mainly doing now, this isn't the second wave which

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Speaker 1: is freezing somebody. This is just cooling a body before

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Speaker 1: and after surgery to help them increase their chances of survival.

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Speaker 1: Basically your your body. Um, they're doing that now on

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Speaker 1: this side. They're just not doing the other quite yet.

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Speaker 1: On humans. Um, So, under normal circumstances, your body maintains

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Speaker 1: a normal core body temperature. Normative temperature I think is

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Speaker 1: what it's called, right and um, that's somewhere between like

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Speaker 1: nineties six and ninety eight point six degrees is a

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Speaker 1: normal human core body temperature. And all of this is

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Speaker 1: And dude, do you remember and like when I went

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Speaker 1: on that crazy weird metaphysical tangent and does the body

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Speaker 1: replace itself? Somebody wrote in and said, check this article out,

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Speaker 1: like here's a really great explanation of why things live,

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Speaker 1: where life comes from. And it was this, Um, this idea,

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Speaker 1: it's a physics based idea of life and evolution. And

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Speaker 1: it says that because of entropy, because of one of

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Speaker 1: the laws of thermodynamics, that atoms will arringe inge themselves

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Speaker 1: in a way that they can take in energy and

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Speaker 1: dissipate heat in a really efficient manner, and so of

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Speaker 1: course they're gonna atoms are eventually going to arrange themselves

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Speaker 1: into life. It just makes total sense, right. So, being

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Speaker 1: living things like we are, we take in energy and

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Speaker 1: we dissipate heat, and that's what forms our core body temperature.

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Speaker 1: With therapeutic hypothermia, what you're doing is lowering the metabolic

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Speaker 1: rate through the addition of cold, and so we put

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Speaker 1: out less heat. And by doing that, we're also lowering

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Speaker 1: our energy demand, so that that that little engine that's

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Speaker 1: going all the time and ourselves and our body in

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Speaker 1: general gets slowed down. And it's not altered in any

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Speaker 1: way except for the speed and the energy consumption. It's

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Speaker 1: just slowed down. It's doing everything slower. And you can

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Speaker 1: do that simply by lowering the temperature of the person. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's not just lower it's um it doesn't

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Speaker 1: need to be faster. Does that make sense, Like the

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Speaker 1: heart beat slower because it doesn't need to beat any faster.

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Speaker 1: It's not like your body is struggling. Your body is

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Speaker 1: still doing fine. It's just reducing the demand for stuff

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Speaker 1: like blood flow and neurotransmitter action and stuff like that exactly.

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Speaker 1: And ultimately, what your heart does is pumps blood, and

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Speaker 1: what your blood has is, among other things, oxygen, and

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Speaker 1: your cells need oxygen to carry out these metabolic processes

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Speaker 1: to burn energy, right, So if they need less, then

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Speaker 1: your heart doesn't have to beat as much. It's like

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Speaker 1: you said, it's just the normal processes, but on a

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Speaker 1: much slower scale. Pretty awesome stuff it is. And it's

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Speaker 1: just through the application of colder temperatures. Oh yeah, and

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Speaker 1: in this case, um, and we'll get to how to

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Speaker 1: do it, But in this case you're not I mean

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Speaker 1: you're literally cooling the body with like ice packs and

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Speaker 1: cold blankets and stuff like that pre surgery and post surgery.

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Speaker 1: It's not the suspended anime some one that we'll get

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Speaker 1: to when they're actually like pumping frozen saline through your pains. No,

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Speaker 1: there are, but there are some UM techniques for uh

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Speaker 1: medically induced hypothermia that do put in like chilled saline

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Speaker 1: really to chill your body down very quickly. But it's

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Speaker 1: not like replacing your blood. Yeah yeah, yeah, I hear you.

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Speaker 1: So there's a couple of applications at this point and

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Speaker 1: the cases are either involved intervention or prevention. An intervention

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Speaker 1: is when they're trying to prevent further damage from an

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Speaker 1: incident like a stroke or cardiac arrest or sort of

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Speaker 1: the two main ones. UM and then preventative wise, it's

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Speaker 1: to extend operating time because back in the day you

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Speaker 1: could not operate on UM. Well, back in the day,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't stop the heart to operate on it. No,

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Speaker 1: which is I do you remember we did like this

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Speaker 1: day in history about the first guy to ever do

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Speaker 1: open heart centuries of black surgeon in Chicago the early

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Speaker 1: twentieth century, I think, and he did an emergency open

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Speaker 1: heart surgery with a beating heart. That guy was totally awesome. UM.

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Speaker 1: This was the case for a very long time, and

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Speaker 1: you couldn't stop the heart. And they finally invented a

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Speaker 1: machine UM that basically does the work of the heart

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Speaker 1: and the lungs called the exactly where you're transferring blood

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Speaker 1: through this machine and UM, it's removing c O two,

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Speaker 1: it's adding oxygen, and it's pumping it back into the

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Speaker 1: body while the heart and lungs are stopped. Revolutionized open

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Speaker 1: heart surgery. There's problems with it. One of the problems

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Speaker 1: is um when the blood comes back in the body,

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Speaker 1: since it's been through this machine, it may have picked

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Speaker 1: up some sort of foreign in bacteria, and the immune

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Speaker 1: system sometimes mounts an attack on the blood. So this,

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Speaker 1: this machine poses its own problems. And alternatively, an alternative

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Speaker 1: method for or stopping the heart, of slowing the heart

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Speaker 1: is to use medically induced hypothermia. So that's an intervention, no,

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Speaker 1: a prevention, preventative use of medically induced hypothermia. But intervention

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Speaker 1: is another way, like you said, and it can have

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Speaker 1: to do a stroke or heart attacks or cardiac arrests. Right,

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Speaker 1: aren't those two different things? I think so, yeah, technically,

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Speaker 1: but it's some sort of cessation of the heart pumping blood.

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Speaker 1: And the big problem with that it doesn't really matter

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Speaker 1: whether your hand is getting blood for a while. The

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Speaker 1: big problem that comes from a heart attack is your

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Speaker 1: brain not getting blood for a while. So here's what

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Speaker 1: happens when blood stops slowing into your brain. Right, And

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Speaker 1: we we covered this somehow in the How Dying Works episode. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the dying process. Okay, because it's not a it's not

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Speaker 1: a black and white thing. Uh, you're not alive and

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Speaker 1: then you're dead. It comes in many, many stages, and

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Speaker 1: we talked about the stages of death. Yeah, so there's

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Speaker 1: when what they've discovered is that yeah, you're not like

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Speaker 1: I'm alive and now I'm dead. Is what we covered

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Speaker 1: in the How Dying Works episode, Right, like dying in

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Speaker 1: your sleep? I mentioned that how like nobody dies in

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Speaker 1: their sleep. That's just a nice thing. That's a nice

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Speaker 1: way to say they died in their bed overnight. Overnight, Yeah, exactly. Um, so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's with medically induced hypothermia, they've been able to extend

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Speaker 1: that that time between when you appear to be dead

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Speaker 1: and when you're actually dead, and by extending that time,

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Speaker 1: they can intervene um better. And yeah, even a little

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Speaker 1: bit of time can go a long way. So one

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Speaker 1: of the one of the things that medically induced hypothermia

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Speaker 1: has been shown to really help is what's called return

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Speaker 1: of spontaneous circulation. After uh, you have a heart attack.

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Speaker 1: The problem is is your heart and lungs can your

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Speaker 1: cardiopulmonary system can start working again, but you might not

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Speaker 1: regain consciousness. And in that case, that's a sign that

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Speaker 1: your brain may be in trouble, your cognitive function, you

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Speaker 1: may be suffering brain damage at that moment. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: isn't the stat one and ten cardiac arrests outside of

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Speaker 1: a hospital, has it like goes on to live like

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Speaker 1: a without brain damage. Yeah, because you have a very

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Speaker 1: small window, and that window is usually longer than it

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Speaker 1: takes to get to the hospital. Right. So if they

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Speaker 1: bring you in and you are showing signs of UM

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Speaker 1: r OSC without return to consciousness too, um, they may

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Speaker 1: induce medical medical hypothermia. And the reason why is the

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Speaker 1: heart pumps blood, and blood contains things including oxygen, right um.

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Speaker 1: And one of the organs that uses probably the most

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Speaker 1: oxygen of all is the brain, and the brain uses

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Speaker 1: its oxygen to um burn energy. Basically, it uses it

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Speaker 1: to oxidized glucose. And when it does that, the reason

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Speaker 1: it does is because you're neurons, your little neural cells

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Speaker 1: that fire the way they fires because their chemical battery,

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Speaker 1: their chemical battery with the stored potential charge, and they

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Speaker 1: do that by keeping a lower concentration of electrolytes inside

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Speaker 1: the cell than outside. So this difference creates the electrical

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Speaker 1: charge that your neurons used to fire. Right on normal circumstances,

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Speaker 1: that's all well and good, but when they stop. When

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Speaker 1: they stop getting oxygen, they can switch to anaerobic mode

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Speaker 1: for a little while, so they're still burning energy, but

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Speaker 1: they're like, you need to start breathing again because this

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Speaker 1: is not very efficient. It's like the like when the

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Speaker 1: emergency lights go on exactly exactly. So UM as a

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Speaker 1: byproduct of anaerobic um respiration, you get the stuff called

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Speaker 1: lactic acid. Lactic acid in and of itself isn't bad,

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Speaker 1: but it can build up. One of the other things

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Speaker 1: that happens to when these um when this UH, when

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Speaker 1: that runs out, is the difference between electrolytes inside. Now

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Speaker 1: inside the cell stops like it evens out, and now

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden you have things like calcium, potassium,

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Speaker 1: sodium coming in and out of the cell as much

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Speaker 1: as they please, and the cell is like, what is

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Speaker 1: going on? This isn't good and releases its store of glutamate.

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Speaker 1: And glutamate is a neurotransmitter that excites neurons, and again

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00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: in very small amounts, totally fine, it's needed. But when

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Speaker 1: a neuron just freaks out and dumps all that into

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Speaker 1: a synapse, it sets off that neuron and all these

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Speaker 1: other neurons and makes them go totally crazy, and it

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00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 1: also um lowers their structural integrity. So all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: you have neurons going nuts, dumping their contents everywhere, and

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00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: then creating also free radicals, which are atoms with unpaired electrons,

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Speaker 1: and they run up against the cellular structure and the

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Speaker 1: cell walls and start borrowing electrons from those atoms, and

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00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: that weakens the structure even more so even more stuff

411
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Speaker 1: gets dumped out into the inter cellular matrix, and you

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Speaker 1: have a problem. This is a really big problem in

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Speaker 1: and of itself, right, you're still with me, Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: what happens when you stop getting blood flow. It's just

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Speaker 1: as bad, if not worse, when you start getting blood

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00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: flow again, because you have all these damage cells, you

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Speaker 1: have dead cells. And when you have dead cells that

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Speaker 1: have dumped their contents, one of the roles that your

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Speaker 1: white blood cells your immune system plays is to come

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Speaker 1: clean up dead cells, because that's toxic stuff. That's bad stuff,

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Speaker 1: and you need to get it out of your body.

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Speaker 1: So when blood flow returns again, all of those white

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Speaker 1: blood cells come to the site of this problem, your brain,

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Speaker 1: and they start cleaning up. Well. When they do, and uh,

425
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: inflammatory reaction happens, and all of a sudden you have

426
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: swelling in your brain and the process gets even worse.

427
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: So these these um structurally challenged neurons don't just erupt immediately.

428
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 1: They do immediately, but it can continue for hours and

429
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: days afterwards. And all of this happens from a heart attack.

430
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: But by applying cold temperatures and bringing hypothermion in somebody,

431
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: you can actually stop this process. You can stop the

432
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,719
Speaker 1: glue to make from ever being dump they're finding and

433
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: so give time basically for your brain to rebuild itself

434
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: in the way it needs to by lowering that metabolic

435
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: rate that your your neurons need. That's what it does

436
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: for for a heart attack, cardiac arrest. They're definitely two

437
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,719
Speaker 1: different things. I looked it up and someone's gonna say,

438
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: you guys should do a podcast on that because you

439
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: don't know what you're talking about. Right, it's coming So

440
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: probably after that we should take a little break, huh,

441
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: I think. So you want to get some tea, yeah,

442
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: and uh, we'll be back with more cool stuff. All right,

443
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: So how is this magic done? It's pretty easy, actually, yeah,

444
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: it's easy in theory, but there are generally three stages

445
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: UM for therapeutic hypothermia, and they are induction, maintenance and rewarming,

446
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: and they are all very carefully monitored and have to

447
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: be done just right. Uh So when they go to

448
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: cool the patient, um, they will first thing you'll do

449
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: is sedate them because shivering. Uh, shivering is the body's

450
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: way of trying to stay warm. Like your body wants

451
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: to be warm, and it's gonna do everything it can

452
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: until you die, like Jack Nicholson outside the Maze and

453
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: the shining exactly to stay warm. Yeah, And you can't

454
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: have a body shivering because number one, it fights off

455
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: that hypothermia you're inducing, right. Number Two, that uses a

456
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: lot of energy, which is what you're combating right there.

457
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: You're trying to slow the metabolic rate, not increase it, right,

458
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,719
Speaker 1: and you want a patient that's still as well. Like

459
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: one of the problems I've seen is the problem with

460
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: doctors like performing in these conditions because like stop squirming.

461
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: Well that too, and they have to keep the room

462
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: very cold. It's not like they're in like an eighty

463
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: degree room and they're trying to keep them like everything's cold.

464
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: So the doctors have to perform under those circumstances too,

465
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: so they may shiver themselves, but to keep the patient

466
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: from shivering, they just solve that problem by injecting them

467
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: with the paralytic exactly. So now they're nice and still

468
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: they're cooling down. Uh the cheap way to do it,

469
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: which is um, and they're not doing it because it's cheap,

470
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,719
Speaker 1: but um ice packs basically armpits, growing chest. They're basically

471
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: wrapping your legs up and everything they can with ice packs,

472
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: and that's just gonna cool you down pretty quickly. Um.

473
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: Like you said, they will sometimes use like catheters or

474
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: a chilled saline solution. Those are more invasive and more dangerous, obviously,

475
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: they also work a lot quicker. Yes, very much. And

476
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: I think they want to cool people down pretty quickly too, um,

477
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: which is I don't think they want to do the

478
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: cooling parts slow. No, And that's a really good point.

479
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, especially if you're bringing

480
00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: a patient's body down, um to a really low temperature. Yeah,

481
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: you have to protect against ice crystals forming in the

482
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: cells because that can erupt your cells, and that's a

483
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: whole set of other problems, right. Yeah, So if you

484
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: bring the temperature down very quickly. You can prevent ice

485
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: crystals from forming. That's right, because they require time to form. Yeah,

486
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: if it's so, if it's super fast, they won't they

487
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: won't form. That's the impression I have. Okay, So during

488
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: the maintenance phase, it's you know exactly how it sounds.

489
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: Are just maintaining that temperature, keeping a very close eye

490
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: again using these cold water packs or forced cold, forced

491
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: air blankets and things like that. Um, it's kind of cool. Huh.

492
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: They sound kind of cool, the forced cold air blanket. Yeah,

493
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: that'd be nice for these Atlanta summers. Get ahold of

494
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: one of those. Uh. And there are a lot of

495
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: risks along the way. Arrhythmia is a very big risk. Uh,

496
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: electrolytes leaving like potassium, which is necessary for the heart

497
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: muscle to function as it should. Um, So they're they're

498
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: pumping the electrolytes back into you because you're losing them.

499
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: So again, they're just maintaining everything. And then the rewarming

500
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: part has to be done very very slow. Uh, otherwise

501
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: you know, very bad things can happen. And we're talking

502
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: um point to seven two point nine degrees per hour

503
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: fahrenheit fahrenheit point one five to point five degrees celsius

504
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: per hour. Yeah, very slow rewarming process, that's right. But

505
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: if you've got a good force their blanket, you can

506
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: really control the warming. You get a good brand, not

507
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: some off brand. And again they're not like, oh well

508
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: if we um, if we heat the person back up

509
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: at point one five degree celsius per hour, then this

510
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: is what's going to happen on a cellular level. Like

511
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: they're not quite there yet. They just know that that's

512
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: the sweet spot for rewarming somebody. That's right, So chuck.

513
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: One of the really um problematic side effects with rewarming

514
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: a person is um. Yeah, they're like, why you start

515
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: to get gaming while you were under um is uh

516
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: blood clots. So when you're when your blood stops pumping

517
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: because your metabolic rate is so low, the blood inside

518
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: you starts to form clots thanks to your red blood

519
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: cells and your platelets and um, when you warm back up,

520
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you have clots all over your body.

521
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: And that's a real problem that that alone can kill you.

522
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: And that's part of the problem with the rewarming process.

523
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: But it turns out that investigation into animals that hibernate,

524
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: they found that animals have some sort of technique to

525
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: where their red blood cells just kind of disappear, and

526
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: then once the animal comes out of hibernation, it reappears.

527
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: They don't even know where they go, no, but they

528
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: do know that they don't get rid of them somehow

529
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: and then regenerate some other ones because their reappearance is

530
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: so fast that they just think the body somehow absorbs

531
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: them and then releases them again. Yeah. And the other

532
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: really cool thing and we're kind of into hibernation right now,

533
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about in more detail, but um, white

534
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,719
Speaker 1: blood cells. Uh, Hibernators remove white blood cells from their

535
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: blood and storm in the lymph nodes and then about

536
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: an hour and a half after these animals awake, they reappear.

537
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: And this has a couple of functions. One is, when

538
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: you're an animal undergoing hibernation, Uh, your immune system is

539
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: going to be compromised because as white cells are in storage. Right,

540
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: that's a problem. Yeah, it's a problem. But just knowing

541
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: that animals can do these neat little tricks with their

542
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: platelets and white blood cells, uh, could have like big

543
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: effects on us. If we can figure that out for ourselves. Well, yes,

544
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 1: specifically also chuck, because remember when we were talking about UM,

545
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: your your neurons dying. Yeah, and when you reperfuse, when

546
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: you bring blood back to the brain again, one of

547
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: the things that brings with it is those white blood

548
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: cell and they start going on the attack. So if

549
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: you can figure out how to take white blood cells

550
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,719
Speaker 1: out of the equation, it's going to reduce things like

551
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: post warming swelling, which can give you brain damage itself. Yeah.

552
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: And you talked about the heart lung machine. One of

553
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: the big dangers with that machine is a septic sepsis.

554
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: And if you have those uh white blood cells stripped away,

555
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: then you're not going to be at risk for that

556
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: and um, they'll be able to U hang on to

557
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: blood longer. Right now. Blood donations can only be kept

558
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: a weak um it goes ranked quick, yeah, and transplant

559
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: organs can be UM basically cryo protected for longer too,

560
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: which is pretty neat So uh, I guess we should

561
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: talk about hibernation for a minute, because it's one of

562
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: the neatst things in nature. I think uh. In torp

563
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: or basically torpor, short periods of hibernation reduced body temperature

564
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: and inactivity, and when you link a bun of tor

565
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: ports together. That's full on hibernation. So yeah, it's also

566
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: like a like hibernation light too. Yeah you know what

567
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: I mean, Like you can you can be I think

568
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: a bear inners torpor where it's it wakes up like

569
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: every once in a while and eats or poops or

570
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: does something. And then there's some animals where you can

571
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: just shake them like this and they will not wake

572
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: up and they're in full on hibernation. Yeah, and the

573
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: animals have to prepare for this. They just don't go

574
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: betty by and stay asleep for a long time. First,

575
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: they become diabetics basically by gorging on food and becoming obese.

576
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 1: It sounds familiar, uh and um, but it doesn't affect

577
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: like humans does. It doesn't make them unhealthy like their

578
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: body knows it's preparation for hibernation, knows what to do

579
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: with it exactly. Plus they're probably also eating unprocessed foods too,

580
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: which I think makes a difference. Yeah, you know, I

581
00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: think so. Um, they don't atrophy like humans do, Like

582
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: when we lay around in bed, we don't our muscles

583
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: will atrophy. Um. Animals can go months and months without

584
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: moving spectacular. Spectacular. It also kind of suggests that humans

585
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: aren't supposed to hybernate. Yeah. Well, although you know, when

586
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: they found some of these frozen people, they start to

587
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: think maybe human hibernation isn't such a bad thing. Um.

588
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 1: Their lungs when you hibernate, become covered at the really

589
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: thick like mucacy, uh deposits um. It basically looks like

590
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: a human with asthma. But it's you know, a protective measure. Again. Uh,

591
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: they go in their brains kind of um, go into

592
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: a stage that looks like early Alzheimer's. Again, not a

593
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: bad thing, it's just preparation. Uh. And it it's weird.

594
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it looks like animals are almost dying when

595
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: they're preparing for hibernation in some cases, and sometimes they do,

596
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: especially when they're forced to come out of hibernation and

597
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: then go back in. Their energy stores aren't aren't built

598
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 1: for that kind of thing. Like, so they probably will

599
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: die because they'll start to death because it required so

600
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 1: much energy to wake back up again. Or they're also

601
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: vulnerable to predators too. Yeah, good point, which makes you wonder,

602
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: like what's the point of hibernation and the point is, Well,

603
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: it's they don't have enough energy to go elsewhere when

604
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: temperatures get cold, so they just kind of shut down

605
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: their metabolic demand when food becomes scarce and um For

606
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 1: the longest time, we didn't think that any um uh

607
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: primates could hibernate until two thousand four when they found

608
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: a lemur from Madagascar that could hibernate and uh, well

609
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: at least go into the regular torpor hibernation light still

610
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: and they said, we share about of our genes with

611
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: the lemur, and they said, it's basically our cousin. Yeah,

612
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: I mean that. The doctor basically said it would be

613
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: really remarkable if the ability to hibernate light within that

614
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: that we don't have. So basically humans may have more

615
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: of an ability to do this than we think. It

616
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: would just have to be medically induced. Well, you know

617
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: who demonstrates that very well, Chuck. Is that a man

618
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: named mitsu take Yu chi Koshi. Oh, yeah, we talked

619
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 1: about him. What do we talk about him? And was

620
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: it cryogenics episode? It was a long time ago. I

621
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: don't remember that one. Cryogenics that's a good one, that's

622
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: a good title. But yeah, I remember this guy though.

623
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: For sure. So he is a Japanese man who, at

624
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: age thirty five, was hiking with some friends in Japan

625
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: and he decided to turn back by himself to go,

626
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, get something out of his car, and

627
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: he wandered off and apparently in a meadow, Um tripped

628
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: over a rock and fell and hit his head on

629
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: another rock and laid there in exposed to these cold

630
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: temperatures on this mountain for twenty four days. And he

631
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: was found basically in a state of hibernation. His body

632
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: temperature was through the lore. Yeah, and um, he had

633
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: almost no pulse. His temperature was seventy one degrees which

634
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: is twenty two degrees celsius. That's his body temperature. That's

635
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: pretty that's like a hypothermic state. And he was in

636
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: this weird kind of state of suspended animation for twenty

637
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: four days. He went without food, water, nothing, just laying

638
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: there um living in some weird way until he was

639
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: rescued and returned to um complete normalcy. Yeah, it's like

640
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 1: the lady the skier who was frozen, Uh, not nearly

641
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: for his long But these cases where humans bodies are

642
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: defying what we thought they could do, you can give

643
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 1: US insight into like, hey, how do we manipulate this

644
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: for good? How do we use this to get to

645
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: the stars? All Right, So I mentioned earlier that NASA

646
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 1: was kind of leading the charge for um this really

647
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: cool suspended animation where you're basically freezing a person like

648
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: Han Solo um in carbonite. Yeah, if it's not carbonite,

649
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: it's not exactly like that, but it's it's sort of

650
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: like that. Actually it's not like that at all, right,

651
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: um And where NASA dropped off of, the U. S.

652
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: Army picked back up with some funding because they basically

653
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: said on the trauma hospitals during wartime are chaos because

654
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: you're trying to to save a person. You're trying to

655
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: treat their immediate wound, You're trying to stabilize them, you're

656
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: trying to make them better, you're trying to prevent blood loss.

657
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: It's it's not an easy thing to do. It's not

658
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: like mash you know, where they just make it look

659
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: super simple. Right, Well, everybody's dunk on homemade gin. Yeah,

660
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 1: so they're thinking, Um, I wonder what that stuff tasted,

661
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: like I always wondered. But they're still they seem to

662
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: like it pretty much pretty well because they didn't have

663
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: anything I know, but they really seem to enjoy it well.

664
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: The way they handled it was very much like a

665
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: fine martini. But you know, it's just like swill. I

666
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: don't know they were at it for several years. Yeah,

667
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: that's true. We'll have to ask Alan all of the

668
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: um man to meet that guy, one of my heroes

669
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: for attention, Alan all the reach out to us, so

670
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,439
Speaker 1: Chuck can meet you. That would be great. My brother

671
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 1: met him, I'm sure he did. He probably gets Christmas

672
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: cards phones, No, but he did get a picture with him,

673
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 1: which is pretty neat. Um So where was I? Oh yeah,

674
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: mash operating rooms. Yeah, because if you're a doctor, even

675
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: in a battlefield hospital, you're like, I want a coffee

676
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: break too, and so to be like, I don't have

677
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: time for this guy right now, freeze him to have

678
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: that ability that would be magnificent. Or if you did

679
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: have time for the guy, but you literally didn't have

680
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: time to fix these horrific wounds that he came in with,

681
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: you could also say freeze him to buy me some time,

682
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 1: and that will let will give you the time to

683
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 1: basically operate on this guy and completely repair heart or

684
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: his brain or what have you. UM, And that's what

685
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: medically induced hypothermia does. It just it buys you time

686
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: for either the body to heal itself in ways we

687
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: don't understand, or for you the surgeon to sew somebody

688
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: up who without hypothermia would just be a lost cause. Yeah,

689
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: there's a doctor named Sam Tisherman from the University of

690
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: Maryland chirps working with the University of Pittsburgh. Um, what

691
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: are they panthers, University of Pittsburgh, pitt Panthers. I think

692
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: so that sounds right. It does, we'll go with panthers. Panthers. Uh.

693
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: If I got that right, I'm so sorry, Pittsburgh. We'd

694
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: love you. UM. But he is working hard to UM basically, uh,

695
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 1: put patients into severe hypothermia or suspended animation. They're calling

696
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 1: this emergency preservation and resuscitation. And this is the one

697
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 1: that they haven't yet experimented on humans. They think they're

698
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: pretty close, but this is the one where they flushed

699
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: the body with freezing cold saline solution um which prevents

700
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: ice from forming. Yeah, and it's worked on dogs, and

701
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: I think works on dogs, gotta work on humans. Well,

702
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: they did some experiments on pigs too, because one of

703
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 1: the one of the things they think they can do

704
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: where it's not like if you've had a hard cardiac

705
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: arrest or a stroke, but again, with trauma like a gunshot,

706
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 1: you just can't. And I didn't I never knew this.

707
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: You can't resuscitate a person with CPR that's had blood

708
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: loss due to trauma. It's completely different than cardiac arrest.

709
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: Why because the close circulatory system has been opened. I

710
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: have no idea. I bet that's it. Because of the

711
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: dropping blood pressure. It's just not working. It's like sucking

712
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: through a straw that has a hole beneath your lips,

713
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: like a lot of it's escaping, a lot of the

714
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: air's escaping, so you can't get as much draw. Yeah,

715
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: I guess that makes I'll bet that's what it is.

716
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: All right, Well we'll probably find out. Um, But with

717
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: mel and all with trauma like a gunshot wound or something,

718
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: or a stab wound where you lost so much blood

719
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: you're dying. Um. This is when they're using these super

720
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: super cold temperatures. Um. It's a tube inserted into the

721
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: a orda literally and they've done this on pigs in

722
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,919
Speaker 1: two thousand six, they examined um deep, profound and ultra

723
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: profound freezing of pigs who had uncontrolled bleeding wounds. And

724
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: I imagine that, yeah, imagine they induced those as well. Student. Yeah,

725
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: there's one creep post doc could get to do you

726
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: know all the stabbings. Um, yeah, that's why I'm here.

727
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: I'll get ronnie. Um. And they found that the ones

728
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: who went underwent the most profound hypothermia had the highest

729
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: survival rates, like those French soldiers on the battle exactly.

730
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: And then in two thousand they did the same thing

731
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: with dogs, except that why they weren't stabbed it was

732
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: dogs and cardiac arrest. Um. They may have induced that

733
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: too though, come to think of it, they'd be like,

734
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: you want this phone, now you can't have it. But

735
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: they use ice cold ceiling in that case, and their

736
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: chances of survival with no brain damage really increased. So um,

737
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: it's you know, there are risks though, it's not the

738
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: easiest thing to do, like we said, and um, I

739
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: know pneumonia was one of the risks for years. Um,

740
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: even with just the regular cooling, right. Uh. Yeah, pneumonia

741
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: slowed heart rate. Apparently you can enter hyperthermia while you're

742
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: being rewarmed, like you get way too hot, your body

743
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: temperature increases too dramatically. There's a lot of problems that

744
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: blood clotting is still an issue and probably will be

745
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: for a while. Yeah. With Tishrmann's case, trying to use humans, though,

746
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: there's a couple of problems. Um One is they have

747
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: to get consent from a person to undergo an experiment

748
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: like this, But you can't give consent when you're wheeled

749
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 1: in there unconscious from a cardiac arrest. So what he's

750
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: trying to do is just spread the word literally, to

751
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: spread the word to the citizens in his area that

752
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: there's this thing, and if your husband or wife has

753
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: a cardiac arrest, ask for the cold treatment where we

754
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: completely pumped their blood out and replace it with frozen

755
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: sailinge using cold sailine. It's pretty amazing, it is. And

756
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of people who are still

757
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: very skeptical of the idea that medically induced hypothermia can

758
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: actually work, but there's also a growing body of studies

759
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: that show that it does that has a significant impact.

760
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: Like there were a couple there were several in two

761
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: thousand two that really broke the thing open where it

762
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,399
Speaker 1: was like, these people have a twenty five percent chance

763
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: of recovery without it, they have a fifty or seventy

764
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: chance of recovery with it. And that's really tough to ignore.

765
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 1: It's amazing, amazing stuff into the future, Chuck, let's go.

766
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: If you want to know more about medically induced hypothermia,

767
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: check out our podcast page for this Episode's got a

768
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: bunch of cool links, and you can type uh therapy

769
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: peutic hypothermia in the search part how stuff works dot

770
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: comm and it will bring up this article full of

771
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: puns and Uh. Since I said search part, it's time

772
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: for listener mail. I'm gonna call this um Josh's theory

773
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: on satire. Remember that we talked about that in the

774
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 1: very recent show clown Clowning. Uh, do you want to

775
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: summarize your position real quick? But maybe satire is just

776
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: a release and does it affect change that the nuts

777
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: and bolts of it. Yeah, Basically it lets the populist

778
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,760
Speaker 1: who's angry let off steam at the leadership without actually

779
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: forcing the leadership to change. All right, So that brings

780
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: us up to speed. And this is from Chelsea. She said,

781
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: I just started listening under a year ago when a

782
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: change in jobs landed me with a twenty five minute

783
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: walk to and from work every day. I think she's

784
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: in Dublin, um, she says, I find myself laughing out

785
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: loud at your repartee, and my boyfriend is affectionately started

786
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: referring to you as my nerd friends. But he's a

787
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: listener now to it sounds like Dublin. I'm actually writing in.

788
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: Regarded Josh's theory on satire, it's a really interesting point,

789
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 1: an angle I had not considered myself. I think, though,

790
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: that there's another way to look at it, which is

791
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: that satire has the ability to plant the seed of

792
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,240
Speaker 1: descent in a non threatening way, and thus can eventually

793
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: be a force of change. For example, someone may not

794
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: be aware of a particular foible of a leader. The

795
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: satirist points it out in a funny way. Now that

796
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 1: someone has an awareness without feeling preached at, and has

797
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: it in their mind the next time the leader does

798
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: something untoward, or perhaps they were just uh, they were

799
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 1: aware of said foible, but the satirist opened their eyes

800
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: to just how ridiculous and or dangerous it is. So

801
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: while there's certainly a possibility satire connect as placation or

802
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: a way of letting off steam. There's also a very

803
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: real possibility that can spark be the spark that ignites

804
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: an eventual change. It's a good point. Yeah, and that's

805
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 1: from Chelsea and Morgan Hoffman. Thanks a lot, Chelsea Morgan

806
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 1: Hoffman of Dublin, Ireland. Probably well, she just said Dublin, Dublin, Georgia.

807
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and assume Ireland. Yeah, and boyfriend, Yes,

808
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 1: thank you both for listening. We appreciate it. Uh. And

809
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: if you have a counterpoint, or your own theory or hypothesis,

810
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: or just want to say hi or whatever, you can

811
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: tweet to us at s y s K podcast. You

812
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: can join us on Facebook dot com, slash stuff you

813
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: Should Know, UH, you can send us an email to

814
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com, and as always,

815
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: joined us at our luxurious PHLM on the web, Stuff

816
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: you Should Know dot com For more on this and

817
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot com.