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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know

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Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. Guess who's with me? And I'm Chuck Bryant.

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Speaker 1: That's right and weird this stuff you should know? Team

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Speaker 1: that's right, the that lumpy finger NAILI Harry tep stuff

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Speaker 1: you should know Team We're a Tara Tomah. I know

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Speaker 1: you hate that though, just just consist of the same

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Speaker 1: things that I'm saying it for a one listener that

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Speaker 1: who's from Racking Up right now? Right? That's that's who

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Speaker 1: That's for? Who's who is you? When you listen to

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Speaker 1: your own podcast next week? I know you you? Yes? Okay,

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Speaker 1: can we get on with this. Let's do this. Chuck, Hey, Josh,

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Speaker 1: what's a brown field? That's so funny? You should ask Chuck.

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Speaker 1: I know what a brownfield is, and it's even the

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Speaker 1: name of this podcast, so I will tell you as follows. Basically,

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Speaker 1: a brown field is UM any abandoned industrial site, UM,

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Speaker 1: A old dry cleaner's, an old gas station, any place

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Speaker 1: where there's a potential for a local environmental contamination, but

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Speaker 1: which necessarily proven to have contamination. Right, it can just

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Speaker 1: be it can just be, uh, something that looks like it,

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Speaker 1: or someone might suspect, um if there was a bunch

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Speaker 1: of chemicals there at one point in time, um or

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Speaker 1: over the years consistently, somebody could reasonably say, I'll bet

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Speaker 1: that place is contaminated, which is not to be confused

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Speaker 1: with a super fund. Really, you bust the super fund

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Speaker 1: out this early. Let me redack that statement, now, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: go ahead. Well, super Fun, Absolutely, it's contaminated. It is

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Speaker 1: with serious, serious hazardous waste. Um. And actually I was

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Speaker 1: looking around on the e p AS website because you

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Speaker 1: know that's what I do. And um, there's several super

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Speaker 1: Fun sites slated for cleanup in Georgia, but I came

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Speaker 1: across one that I knew you'd be particularly interested in.

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Speaker 1: Hit me your house, so I'm kidding. Um, there's you know,

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Speaker 1: Robin's Air Force Base in Houston County. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a little north of here. Um, I is Houston County

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Speaker 1: north of here? Okay, Well, anyway, Robin's Air Force Base

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Speaker 1: is up there, and um, they have an old sludge

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Speaker 1: pond and in the sixties and seventies, they said, you

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Speaker 1: know what, we've got these old cans of paint, throw

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Speaker 1: them in the sludge pond. We have like all this trash,

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Speaker 1: throw it in the sludge pod. So they kept throwing

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Speaker 1: stuff in the sludge, old tires, and then finally, once

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Speaker 1: the seventies rolled around and there was such thing as

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Speaker 1: the E p A and Earth Day and all that,

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Speaker 1: the Air Force and covered it up with five ft

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Speaker 1: of loam. What's that It's like sandy silt, like real

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Speaker 1: thick sand. So they made a beach. They just covered

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Speaker 1: it over right, which actually again like yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a stupid thing to do, um, and now it's a

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Speaker 1: super fun site to clean up all the loam in

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Speaker 1: addition to everything else. Here's here's where it gets interesting.

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Speaker 1: Why I think you'd be interested in it? And it's

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Speaker 1: just a little sense just kind of crammed in there.

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Speaker 1: They were like, yeah, there's like old chemical waste, there's

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Speaker 1: old material waste, and also there's unexploded ordinance and agent orange.

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Speaker 1: Really and there's agent orange and a sludge pond on

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Speaker 1: Robin's Air Force basis. So this stuff was left over

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Speaker 1: from Vietnam and they just dumped it there probably, yeah, yep.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so it's super fun sited a place where

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Speaker 1: there's agent orange under five feet of loam, right, and

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Speaker 1: it's seeping into the groundwater all that. Yeah, But like

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Speaker 1: you said, these have been clearly identified. The government knows

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Speaker 1: about them. They're doing their best to clean it up. Um. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that last part is true, but

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Speaker 1: they know about them, and at the very least they're

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Speaker 1: going to the trouble of identifying them. Right. But a

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Speaker 1: brown feels different. Like you said, it's a it's potentially contaminated,

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Speaker 1: it could be contaminated. It's still a brown field, but

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Speaker 1: it's not so contaminated or the materials that are that

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Speaker 1: have contaminated it are so dangerous that you can't use

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Speaker 1: the site. Again. Well, now, in fact, quite the opposite,

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Speaker 1: they're trying to encourage the use of these sites. Right.

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Speaker 1: And actually, Chuck, what what makes brown feel so interesting

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Speaker 1: to me? Is there not just like an environmental hazard,

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Speaker 1: they're an economic hazard as well, because usually, like let's say, um,

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Speaker 1: you know we've talked about urban exploration before, right, there's

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Speaker 1: all these old like abandoned industrial sites or something like that. Um,

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Speaker 1: and they're just sitting there there being left or rot

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Speaker 1: their derelict because no one wants to do anything with them.

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Speaker 1: And the reason why is because there's so much potential liability. Like,

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Speaker 1: let's say you or I got a wild hair and

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Speaker 1: we wanted to invest in a new mixed use development.

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Speaker 1: Sounds good, So we buy some old industrial site kind

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Speaker 1: of on the edge of town. Heck, in the middle

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Speaker 1: of town, right Atlantic Steel here in Atlanta. Yeah, Atlantic

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Speaker 1: Station was a brownfield redevelopment remediation site. Um. So, so

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Speaker 1: we buy this thing. Everything's hunky dory, and um we're

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Speaker 1: starting to get some business. We've got some ten it's

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Speaker 1: in our buildings. There's people walking their dogs. I see

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Speaker 1: some guy flying a kite. There's a cute little girl

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Speaker 1: with bows in her hair. She looks like she's going

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Speaker 1: to the gap for the first time ever and pretty

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Speaker 1: excited about it. Right. So uh and then bam, out

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Speaker 1: of nowhere, somebody finds out that the groundwater under our

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Speaker 1: site is contaminated old petroleum investors pull out, buddy, you

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Speaker 1: better hope we have investors soon. Where at this point, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if if it's all our money sunk into it, we're

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Speaker 1: not only are we getting Um, you know sued, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna lose all of our tenants were in big trouble, right,

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Speaker 1: which is why people stay away from brownfield sites. But

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Speaker 1: if we remediate brownfield sites, and we'll get into remediation

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Speaker 1: in a second, if we if we remediate brownfield sites,

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Speaker 1: not only do these old, you know, hulking, rotting derelic

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Speaker 1: places get rebuilt, which is bad for urban explorers, but

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Speaker 1: good for everybody else. It actually saves virgin tracts of land, woodland,

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Speaker 1: other areas. It keeps green space out there. We don't

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Speaker 1: have to develop green space exactly because we're reusing land

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Speaker 1: rather than just abandoning, right. And that's one of the

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Speaker 1: great things about brown field areas is that it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's not, like you said, completely untouched. So what you've

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Speaker 1: got probably in place of some infrastructure. You have waterlines,

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Speaker 1: you have gas lines and stuff like that, any kind

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Speaker 1: of line, any kind ofline, So, uh, that's awesome. It's

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Speaker 1: not as expensive. No, it's not. In theory. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to lay down that new infrastructure. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to lay the pipe, so to speak. That's exactly right, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: The infrastructure is already their pipes and all, you know,

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Speaker 1: how many brown fields are in the United States estimated?

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Speaker 1: I want to hear it, four hundred and fifty thousand.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of brown field site, it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of real estate it is. And um,

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Speaker 1: what you were saying before that the fact that there's

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Speaker 1: infrastructure there, there's buildings there. This makes brown field site

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Speaker 1: it's real property, right And well that yeah, it means

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Speaker 1: you get whatever is on the property. The buildings are yours,

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Speaker 1: the mineral rights yours, it's all there for the taking. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: but if there's so much liability attached, right, how how

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Speaker 1: do you overcome this kind of thing? Well, what do

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Speaker 1: you mean, like, how do you clean it up? Well? No,

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Speaker 1: I mean like, how do you attract people to brown

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Speaker 1: field sites rather than you know, have them go cut

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Speaker 1: down a bunch of trees and just build on land

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Speaker 1: that they don't have to worry about is contaminated. Well,

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Speaker 1: one way is with incentives, government incentives. And there's a

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Speaker 1: ton of them, aren't they huns dude, Yeah, it's happening

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Speaker 1: all over the place. Let's hear about them. Well. I

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Speaker 1: went to the news section of Google to find out

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Speaker 1: like the latest breaking news and they were literally a

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Speaker 1: dozen stories on brownfield remediation, like this week, it's definitely

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Speaker 1: picking up all over the place. And this is I

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Speaker 1: should say. Brown field remediation has been like a viable alternative,

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Speaker 1: or at least a government backed alternative, since I think

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Speaker 1: the early to mid nineties. That's the impression I have you. Yes, Uh,

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Speaker 1: Texas is getting two point two million dollars worth of

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Speaker 1: funds nice to UH to remediate some of these brownfield

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Speaker 1: from the Feds. Baal the more is has potentially more

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Speaker 1: than one thousand contaminated properties. I can believe that. I

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Speaker 1: went to Baltimore recently and I Hey, Baltimore, shouts out,

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Speaker 1: but I can believe it. Okay, we love you, but boy,

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Speaker 1: it's just like one big brownfield. And actually they have

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Speaker 1: this place remember Buckhead, And sort of I wasn't one

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Speaker 1: big Buckhead guy, but yeah, they have a place there

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Speaker 1: that is Buckhead. It's like a time machine. It's called

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Speaker 1: the power Station Live and it looks like a remediated

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Speaker 1: brownfield site. And it's crazy. It's like everybody just finished

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Speaker 1: watching the most recent episode of France. It's a Thursday

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Speaker 1: night and now they're going out. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: getting back to the different projects, Maine is getting about

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Speaker 1: six point one million bucks. I don't know much about

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Speaker 1: mains brownfield situation. Well it's probably nicer looking, I would guess,

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Speaker 1: but six point one million that's a lot of money

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Speaker 1: considering Baltimore is only getting about four hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's the that's the problem with the allow

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Speaker 1: one a half trillion dollars. Six million dollars seems like

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Speaker 1: peanuts these days, it does, you know. Yeah, uh so Georgia,

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Speaker 1: Actually it's happening right here to Governor Perdue has signed

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Speaker 1: a bill which UM is going to help clean up

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Speaker 1: six hundred polluted sits here in our own states. That's awesome. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I got a friend that works in hazardous waste clean

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Speaker 1: up really. Yeah. He worked at Atlantic Station and when

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Speaker 1: there's like a train derailment and spilled hazardous chemicals, he's

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Speaker 1: he's manages the site. A train derail to my neighborhood

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Speaker 1: once when I was younger, but it just spilled grain.

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Speaker 1: Well he practiced, well, I don't know, they usually kind

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Speaker 1: of clean up any kind of derailment. Okay, Yeah, cool

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Speaker 1: stuff though, Yeah, that is very cool. So, yeah, like

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Speaker 1: you were saying, there's a bunch of incentive programs. You're

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Speaker 1: just talking about the FEDS doling out money. Big time.

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Speaker 1: States stole out money too. And one of the ways

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Speaker 1: that they do it that's almost specifically for remediation projects

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Speaker 1: and and reuse projects is a text increment financing. Have

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Speaker 1: you heard about this? Yeah, go ahead, Okay. So basically

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Speaker 1: what the government does is, let's say it's a local

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Speaker 1: or state government. Um, they say, you know what, if

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Speaker 1: you remediate the site and you turn it into a

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Speaker 1: big mixed use development, all the area around it, if

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Speaker 1: it's successful, is going to start attracting businesses. The real

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Speaker 1: estate values around this area are going to go up.

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Speaker 1: If the real estate values go up and all these

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Speaker 1: businesses and condos and all that stuff goes out to um,

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Speaker 1: we're going to start as a government, we're gonna start

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Speaker 1: making more money off of it's gonna increase our tax base.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to help fund your brown field remediation

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Speaker 1: and reuse project by giving you money based on what

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Speaker 1: we think we can make in the future. Because you're

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Speaker 1: raising the tax value of the real estate in the area.

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Speaker 1: It's a very cool idea. Well, and also they also

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Speaker 1: give tax breaks UH to people that are doing this

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Speaker 1: right sure for the cost of the cleanup, and they're

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Speaker 1: they're practically giving I think we should look into getting

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Speaker 1: a brown field together. Seriously, we can build that gap.

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Speaker 1: We can if we you know, we need some dough

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Speaker 1: So yeah, not a bad idea. So Chuck, how do

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Speaker 1: you remediate a brownfield? Well, the first thing you gotta do,

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Speaker 1: my friend, is go out to the site, conduct an

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Speaker 1: assessment from from some soil samples, look at what you're

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Speaker 1: you know, get those tested, see what you're looking at,

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Speaker 1: seeing just how contaminated it is, and um confirm what's

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Speaker 1: there what's not there. And the e p A UH

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Speaker 1: says that nearly one third of these sites are contamination free.

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Speaker 1: So that's awesome. If you get lucky and picked the

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Speaker 1: right site, your your gold and UM. There is a

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Speaker 1: huge process involved, and there's actually a huge I guess

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Speaker 1: sub construction industry probably related very closely to the demolition

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Speaker 1: industry UM that is engaged in remediating sites. And it

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Speaker 1: is huge, massive work depending on how, if if the

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Speaker 1: area is contaminated and what the pollutant is. Right, because

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Speaker 1: do you remember when we did our webcast and were

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Speaker 1: I think it was last week or whatever we were

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Speaker 1: talking about now is this week? Everything's blending together these days. Um,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about, um, the lost nuclear bombs, Yes,

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Speaker 1: missing bomb, and we're saying in Florence, South Carolina. There's

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Speaker 1: a sizeable chunk of Florence, South Carolina that's now in Savannah.

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Speaker 1: What they did was remediate that site, right because the

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Speaker 1: bomb exploded, the T and T exploded, not the actual

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Speaker 1: nuclear part of it, thank goodness, but it was still

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Speaker 1: spewed contaminated metal and stuff all over the place, so

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Speaker 1: they scooped it up and shipped it to Savannah. That's

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Speaker 1: exactly right. Um. So removing soil, contaminated soil, just actually

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Speaker 1: physically getting it out of there and storing it in

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Speaker 1: a safe place. That's remediation. UM. A lot of times

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Speaker 1: the water is tainted, so you have to remediate that.

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Speaker 1: And actually there's some pretty cool bacteria out there that

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Speaker 1: actually eat petroleum and converted into like harmless compounds. That's awesome. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: So there's all sorts of water treatment UM equipment that

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Speaker 1: you run it through and like this bacteria just eats

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Speaker 1: the stuff and spits green water out the other end,

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Speaker 1: you can plant vegetation. Certain vegetation will suck out the

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Speaker 1: chemicals from the ground. Trees actually, especially a lot of

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Speaker 1: invasive species of trees planted in a in a brown

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Speaker 1: field area will just suck it up and then you

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Speaker 1: just remove the trees. Right, And they did say they

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Speaker 1: mentioned that covering it up can work to which was

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about the loan, but clearly not. You

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Speaker 1: can't cover up everything, you know, right, it depends on

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Speaker 1: what it is. And also, UM, the the the E

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Speaker 1: p A is starting to really kind of encourage green

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Speaker 1: brownfield remediation. Not your mind, that's actually yeah, that's totally different.

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Speaker 1: Green brown field remediation is basically remediation practices that we're

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Speaker 1: already using. But say throwing um some windmills on the

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Speaker 1: site to power the equipment you're using, you know, like

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Speaker 1: the the equipment that that UM that remediates the water

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Speaker 1: or decontaminates the water uses up a lot of energy.

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Speaker 1: Why not power with windmill or solar or something like that. UM,

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Speaker 1: trying to use alternative fuels on the heavy machinery that

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Speaker 1: you're removing the top soil with stuff like that. So

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Speaker 1: there's a there's a lot going on, and I gotta

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Speaker 1: tell you where it was six billion people. Agriculture has

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Speaker 1: a carrying capacity of ten billion people. We're coming up

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Speaker 1: on that. I think some some predictions. Land is important,

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Speaker 1: it's very important. We we need to start reusing it

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Speaker 1: rather than just you know, we are just such a

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Speaker 1: wasteful consumer, disposable society species even yeah, like, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: an old gas station, Let's build a new one across street.

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Speaker 1: Just let that one sit there. Yeah, And actually I

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Speaker 1: used to work in a town in a county down

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Speaker 1: south of here, and the mayor's brother owned a gas

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Speaker 1: station and he sold it to the city. Well it

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Speaker 1: turned out that the city, uh found out that there

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Speaker 1: was a h an underground storage tank for the gas

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Speaker 1: that had leaked and the the soil was contaminated, and

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Speaker 1: that was that. Nothing ever came of it. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: quite a few. I've seen some abandoned gas stations around

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Speaker 1: the Decatur. They've been there for years, like Kadzus swamped

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Speaker 1: and yeah, because no what he can do anything. Well,

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Speaker 1: hopefully you know this this is changing, or I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: say no one can do anything with it. That kind

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Speaker 1: of contradicts our entire podcast. Right, let me say people

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Speaker 1: are afraid that they're not gonna be able to do

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Speaker 1: anything with that, right, But there's a lot of incentives,

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Speaker 1: a lot of tax breaks, and a lot of money

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Speaker 1: being told out. So if you're a developer, man, I say,

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Speaker 1: get on it. Yeah, I think we should get on

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Speaker 1: it too, right after Chuck, since we have nothing to

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Speaker 1: plug listener mail? Right, are we? There? Is that your setup?

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Speaker 1: That was it? Beautiful listener mail time? Josh Today, I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna call this, uh, scary dreams of an impressionable

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Speaker 1: fifteen year old girl. Awesome fan man. So Shelby, who

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Speaker 1: says she's an impressionable fifteen year old girl wrote us.

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Speaker 1: She says, guys, you have scared me out of my mind.

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Speaker 1: I had an extremely vivid nightmare last night, and I

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Speaker 1: had way too much in common with your podcast. I

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Speaker 1: was a victim of a second holocaust in her dream,

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Speaker 1: just her. I think you have to have more than

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Speaker 1: one person for a holocaust. We'll give her break. She's fifteen.

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Speaker 1: The Disney Corporation was behind it, but I don't know

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Speaker 1: what their goal was and killing millions of people anyway.

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Speaker 1: They started mass producing propaganda films and we're aiming to

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Speaker 1: rule the world and established Disneyism as a mandatory global religion.

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Speaker 1: So I might say that's happening for real. I was

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Speaker 1: in a very large movie theater with one such film

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Speaker 1: being played, and at the end, a Disney rep announced

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Speaker 1: that the entire audience was going to die. The rest

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Speaker 1: of my dream consisted of me dodging bullets being fired

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Speaker 1: at me by various mascots inside of and doing forced

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Speaker 1: labor making parts for the Disneyland trains, which brought new

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Speaker 1: prisoners from the parking lot, and working on the Disneyland Railroad.

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Speaker 1: Savage beatings abounded. Awesome, This is so cool. All prisoners

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Speaker 1: had to be stamped on the forehead with one of

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Speaker 1: those re entry stamps, like they that smell like lemons,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the amusement park. My number was D

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Speaker 1: three one seven four nine. I can't believe she remembers

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Speaker 1: on this well, the gates of the entrance of the

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Speaker 1: park read work makes you the Happiest person on Earth,

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Speaker 1: and the statue of Alt Disney standing next to Mickey

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Speaker 1: Man else was replaced with one of Mickey Mouse and Hitler.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe this girl's fifteen, poor thing at the

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Speaker 1: end the park camp was liberated, but I don't know

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Speaker 1: by who or who. But that's not the point. The

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Speaker 1: point is that I spontaneously had this nightmare with all

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Speaker 1: of these details similar to your podcast before even in

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Speaker 1: the title of it. That really creeps me out. I'll

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Speaker 1: keep listening anyway. So what was your name again? Shelby? Shelby,

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Speaker 1: you have one of the more fertile imaginations I've ever encountered.

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Speaker 1: Camp I left beautiful. I'm sorry you were terrified, but

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Speaker 1: you're gonna go places right now. At the Disney Corporation,

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Speaker 1: here's just they're thinking, we need to find the Shelbys here.

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Speaker 1: To us, it's like Italy here it is. So if

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Speaker 1: you want to reveal your you know, innermost thoughts and fears,

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Speaker 1: or you wanna tell us what you think about the

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Speaker 1: Disney Company, or just say hi, you can send us

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Speaker 1: an email to Stuff podcast and how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit

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Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Want more how stuff works,

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Speaker 1: check out our blogs on the house stuff works dot

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Speaker 1: Com home page. Brought to you by the Reinvented two

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Speaker 1: thousand twelve Camri. It's ready, are you