1
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,760
Speaker 1: Welcome to Behind the Police, a production of I Heart Radio.

2
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 1: The Corps Are Problem Problems. I'm Robert Evans. This is

3
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,360
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards, normally a podcast about the worst people

4
00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,960
Speaker 1: in all of history, and it still is. But this

5
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,680
Speaker 1: is the last of our six episode mini series Behind

6
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,159
Speaker 1: the Police. Um. That introduction started out rough, but it

7
00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,280
Speaker 1: came together in the end. Um much like the Police,

8
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,680
Speaker 1: except for well no, not really. Uh. My guest uh

9
00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 1: with this episode, as with all of the others, is

10
00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,159
Speaker 1: Jason Petty, better known as the hip hop artist propaganda. Jason,

11
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,120
Speaker 1: how are you doing? What's up? I'm breathing thin air

12
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,239
Speaker 1: because I'm on the road. But let's hope that this

13
00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,040
Speaker 1: isn't the end of the police story and it does

14
00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,120
Speaker 1: turn out okay. Yeah, yeah, I think that I think

15
00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,920
Speaker 1: they might pull it together in the last the last quarter.

16
00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,480
Speaker 1: He yeah, Let's let's just hope the last quarter isn't

17
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,640
Speaker 1: the year four thousand. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I haven't been

18
00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,680
Speaker 1: checking the news in months, so I I don't know,

19
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,920
Speaker 1: um how how how the police are nowadays? I assume

20
00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 1: everybody's happy with them, yeah, or they're sticking to brand. Yeah,

21
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,479
Speaker 1: so um boy, Jason. As as I finished, this up.

22
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,520
Speaker 1: It became incredibly clear to me how much I was

23
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,000
Speaker 1: going to have to leave out of this of this series,

24
00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:32,920
Speaker 1: Like not just the fact that we're not really talking

25
00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,399
Speaker 1: about federal law enforcement, the FBI, the d e A,

26
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,880
Speaker 1: the A t F UM, just because I wanted to

27
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,680
Speaker 1: focus on like, you know, cops, like normal straight up

28
00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:46,000
Speaker 1: specifically cops. Yeah, in your neighborhood cops. Um. There's but

29
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:47,720
Speaker 1: there's like so much like we're not going to talk

30
00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,200
Speaker 1: much about the civil rights movement just because a lot

31
00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,600
Speaker 1: of what the police did then was just kind of

32
00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 1: like the same tactics that we already talked about them

33
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,120
Speaker 1: doing in previous periods. Um, we're not going to talk

34
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,800
Speaker 1: a lot about like the LGBT movement violence against them.

35
00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:02,520
Speaker 1: We're not going to talk about the Green movement and

36
00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 1: the suppression of that, um, just because I already wrote

37
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 1: sixteen pages for today. Yeah, so we're gonna we're gonna

38
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,600
Speaker 1: talk about what I think is the right last subject

39
00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,399
Speaker 1: to end on a series that is inevitably not going

40
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,519
Speaker 1: to cover everything that it would have been good to cover, um,

41
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:26,240
Speaker 1: and that is the militarization of American police. UM. Yes,

42
00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,920
Speaker 1: so that's where we're where we're going to today, and

43
00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,400
Speaker 1: it's important. It's important to note I'm gonna throw this

44
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,400
Speaker 1: in there that like all the pieces that he's talking about,

45
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,239
Speaker 1: like remember, those are like lived experiences, So it's a

46
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:45,080
Speaker 1: piled on history that emotionally and psychologically all of us

47
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,560
Speaker 1: who have lived through it like, no, it's there. But

48
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,720
Speaker 1: good god, if there's no way to actually cover all

49
00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,880
Speaker 1: of it in a podcast, you know what I'm saying. No,

50
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,200
Speaker 1: I mean, if we'd had another dozen episodes, yeah, we

51
00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't have had to leave out much like we would

52
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:01,360
Speaker 1: have had to leave out a lot, but we would

53
00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,080
Speaker 1: have been able to give broad coverage of all of

54
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,639
Speaker 1: the things. But like, yeah, there's just this isn't going

55
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 1: to be you know, we had to had to stop somewhere.

56
00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,360
Speaker 1: So militarization, I think does kind of make sense, um

57
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,359
Speaker 1: to to focus on in our last episode because it's

58
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,760
Speaker 1: kind of the biggest aspect of where we are right now,

59
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,000
Speaker 1: um in terms of like why the why the ship

60
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,160
Speaker 1: that's happening right now is happening, Like a lot of

61
00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,680
Speaker 1: it has to do with militarization and obviously the foundational

62
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 1: issues of racism that we're behind policing contributed to UM.

63
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,520
Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk about all that, UM. But to

64
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 1: start us off today, we are going to get into

65
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,120
Speaker 1: one of the aspects of the U S law enforcement

66
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,680
Speaker 1: that we have thus far failed to cover it enough

67
00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:47,839
Speaker 1: to tail US policing and indigenous people's UM. Yeah, yeah,

68
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:49,280
Speaker 1: because this is really where we get to the very

69
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,000
Speaker 1: start of militarized police in the United States. When people

70
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,080
Speaker 1: talk about use that term today, militarized police, they're generally

71
00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,560
Speaker 1: referring to equipment. Right the transition of cops the friendly

72
00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,360
Speaker 1: Andy Griffith style lawman who wore like maybe a gun

73
00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,320
Speaker 1: on his hip and a pair of handcuffs, to like

74
00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,680
Speaker 1: the guys wearing heavy body armor in a tool belt

75
00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,240
Speaker 1: with like five different weapons on it. Um. You know,

76
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 1: police tanks and grenade launchers and are fifteen. And when

77
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,880
Speaker 1: people talk about that stuff, they kind of see militarization

78
00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,240
Speaker 1: as a new and worrying trend because the cops they

79
00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,800
Speaker 1: grew up with didn't look like that. UM. And that's

80
00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,800
Speaker 1: a part of police militarization. UM. And it is a

81
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,960
Speaker 1: new part of police military Well, it's not even really

82
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,960
Speaker 1: a new part of it. It's worrying, but it's not new. UM.

83
00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 1: So it's the most visually like, yeah, identifiable. You know,

84
00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,080
Speaker 1: somebody can get their brain around that. Like we say

85
00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,400
Speaker 1: there's a problem with militarization. You could go, yeah, logically speaking,

86
00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,360
Speaker 1: I am not an enemy and surgeon, so I don't

87
00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:54,080
Speaker 1: understand what the grenade launcher for. Yeah, I didn't an

88
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,360
Speaker 1: y yeah, yeah, you didn't used to on a daily basis.

89
00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,120
Speaker 1: See dudes in like the middle of Los Angeles who

90
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,839
Speaker 1: looked like they could have walked out of downtown, right,

91
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:09,000
Speaker 1: and now you do, um yeah, yeah, Camo, Like, how

92
00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:14,920
Speaker 1: is it? What do you expect to happen in the Yeah,

93
00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,720
Speaker 1: the fucking I was at a cop right the other day,

94
00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,400
Speaker 1: were like there were like a bunch of rapid response

95
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,440
Speaker 1: guys and fucking uh and fucking like rural camo and

96
00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,000
Speaker 1: it was like, what are you. We're in the middle

97
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,080
Speaker 1: of that in front of the Portland's Justice Center. What

98
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,359
Speaker 1: do you think is going to happen? You're gonna bland in.

99
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,680
Speaker 1: You need to be wearing some like cut off dickies,

100
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,360
Speaker 1: wearing some sort of coffee stain on your shirt, get

101
00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,240
Speaker 1: some really tight jeans and a flannel shirt. If you

102
00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,039
Speaker 1: want a camouflage into Portland, like what do you fucking

103
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,560
Speaker 1: play that wouldn't even camouflage you in the goddamn woods?

104
00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,159
Speaker 1: Thank you so um yeah. In episode two of this

105
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,800
Speaker 1: mini series, we talked about how the Philadelphia State Police

106
00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,359
Speaker 1: were formed in direct imitation of the Philippine Constabulary, a

107
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,560
Speaker 1: colonial police force the U S form to suppress the

108
00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,080
Speaker 1: natives of a conquered land, and such colonial police forces

109
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:11,120
Speaker 1: were really common among like imperial powers during the period

110
00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,640
Speaker 1: of colonialism, or at least the period where colonialism was

111
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,800
Speaker 1: kind of openly embraced by everyone. Um So, all of

112
00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 1: the big European nations did this ship and you know,

113
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,120
Speaker 1: the US did as well, the most influential example of

114
00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,760
Speaker 1: such a force in American history though, because like you know,

115
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:27,760
Speaker 1: the British had a whole bunch of different ones. They're

116
00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,480
Speaker 1: probably the best at it. So did the French, show,

117
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,000
Speaker 1: so did the Germans, um, and so did the United States.

118
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,560
Speaker 1: But since we didn't have the as as extensive and

119
00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,520
Speaker 1: overseas empire as as those European nations did, a lot

120
00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,360
Speaker 1: of our colonial policing forces were actually like deployed right

121
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,160
Speaker 1: here at home, you know, kind of in frontier areas

122
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,640
Speaker 1: that weren't states yet. And the most influential example of

123
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,479
Speaker 1: such a force in American history is probably the Texas Rangers,

124
00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,560
Speaker 1: who were formed officially in eighteen thirty five. So we're

125
00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,640
Speaker 1: talking about the Rangers today, baby, not the not the

126
00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,960
Speaker 1: not the sports team there, broadly George Bushy's team. Yeah,

127
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,400
Speaker 1: they're whatever we're talking about. What working about the sport

128
00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 1: or the Rangers. Robert their baseball right, Oh my god,

129
00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,800
Speaker 1: I'm so proud Texas. I was like, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no,

130
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:22,040
Speaker 1: no, no no no, it's Texas. So he knows that answer. Yes, yeah.

131
00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:23,800
Speaker 1: So I used to tease my Texas own boys to

132
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,880
Speaker 1: be like, I know, y'all go to the Alamo every year,

133
00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,880
Speaker 1: and I was like, at my DJ I traveled with

134
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:30,680
Speaker 1: it from Texas. I was like, hey, you know, y'all

135
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,120
Speaker 1: lost the Alimo, right, He was like, I didn't realize

136
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:38,320
Speaker 1: it until college because every year, like y'all lost. Anyway,

137
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,520
Speaker 1: go on, So the Range, speaking of the Alamo and such,

138
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,360
Speaker 1: the Rangers started out kind of in the period where

139
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 1: Texas was doing its own thing, uh and not yet

140
00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 1: part of the United States, and they were initially kind

141
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,320
Speaker 1: of just a small, irregular band of hired tufts whose

142
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,680
Speaker 1: job was to protect newly settled white families out on

143
00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 1: the frontier. UH. This put them in constant conflict with

144
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,760
Speaker 1: local and native tribes, the Cherokee and the Comanche primarily,

145
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,280
Speaker 1: and it also pit them against the Mexican population in

146
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,960
Speaker 1: the area. The Texas Rangers quickly evolved into one of

147
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,680
Speaker 1: the most formidable forces for protecting whiteness on the American frontier.

148
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,640
Speaker 1: When non white people were accused of robbing or attacking

149
00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,440
Speaker 1: white settlers, the Rangers acted as designated vigilantes to see

150
00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,040
Speaker 1: that justice was done. And because we're talking about Texas

151
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:22,960
Speaker 1: in the period we're talking about, we're actually talking about

152
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,200
Speaker 1: like what is today Texas, Oklahoma, parts of New Mexico

153
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,000
Speaker 1: and even some Colorado. I think, um, like it's that

154
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,640
Speaker 1: whole region and and a lot of this is like

155
00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,800
Speaker 1: Comanche who were like, this is there where they've been

156
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:39,320
Speaker 1: living for a while, um, and the the colode they

157
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,080
Speaker 1: started having conflicts with settlers, and settlers would murder them.

158
00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,160
Speaker 1: They would murder settlers, and the Texas Rangers would be

159
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,880
Speaker 1: they act a lot as like scouts and stuff for

160
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,040
Speaker 1: like hunting down these bands and leading militias to them

161
00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,800
Speaker 1: and stuff. And that's kind of like they're kind of

162
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,920
Speaker 1: like special forces in this period. And I just can't

163
00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,640
Speaker 1: just throwing it in, like I just think, like the

164
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,679
Speaker 1: the social interaction, just the humanity of the moment. Of

165
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,679
Speaker 1: course it's tents, of course, it's like, uh, there's a

166
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,800
Speaker 1: lot of like bigger forces of like colonialism and frontiersm

167
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,040
Speaker 1: and all these things happening, but just the human interaction

168
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,520
Speaker 1: of saying, you're just waking up, gonna make a cup

169
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,360
Speaker 1: of coffee, step out of your house and someone's building

170
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 1: a house in your lawn. Yeah, and they looked at

171
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,080
Speaker 1: you like you crazy. It's just like yeah, what what

172
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,280
Speaker 1: like what do you what are you doing? Man? What

173
00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,400
Speaker 1: do you well? And it's one of those I don't

174
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,400
Speaker 1: want to I'm talking about my ass a little bit

175
00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 1: now because it's been a long time since I read

176
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,800
Speaker 1: I've read like one good book about what happened to

177
00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,280
Speaker 1: like the conflict between the Comanches and the the the

178
00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,080
Speaker 1: white settlers in this period. But if I'm not mistaken,

179
00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 1: like they were living somewhere else and yeah, we kicked

180
00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,959
Speaker 1: them out of it, uh, and so they wound up

181
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,679
Speaker 1: kind of in you know, the the Broad Texas region,

182
00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,760
Speaker 1: and then we were like okay, but not here either

183
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,160
Speaker 1: like it was it was the to yeah yeah, yeah,

184
00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,400
Speaker 1: it's very frustrating history. So white settlers quickly learned how

185
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,000
Speaker 1: to use the Texas Rangers is like a mercenary force

186
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,120
Speaker 1: um and not just against and well not just against

187
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,719
Speaker 1: like indigenous peoples. It became very common for white men

188
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,720
Speaker 1: to raid cattle from Mexican ranches, uh, and then the

189
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,600
Speaker 1: Mexicans would steal their cattle back, and so the white

190
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,280
Speaker 1: folks would call in the Texas Rangers to retrieve their

191
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,960
Speaker 1: stolen property um. And you know, the Texas Rangers would

192
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,240
Speaker 1: murder people during these like raids to retrieve property like

193
00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,679
Speaker 1: cattle they had owned and had been stolen from them

194
00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,760
Speaker 1: and that they'd taken back. As a rule in sort

195
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,000
Speaker 1: of the Texas Republic period and the early period of statehood,

196
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,679
Speaker 1: when non whites resisted the Rangers in any way, they

197
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,600
Speaker 1: could be killed, arrested, or tortured. So the Texas Rangers

198
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,800
Speaker 1: go from being kind of this like quasi military scouting

199
00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:53,480
Speaker 1: force like a counterinsurgency um force, to like acting as

200
00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:58,040
Speaker 1: kind of a law force for for defending whiteness on

201
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,680
Speaker 1: the frontier um. And over the course of several decades,

202
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,360
Speaker 1: the Texas Rangers acted as the tip of a spear

203
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,120
Speaker 1: that gradually drove most indigenous people's out of Texas, often

204
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,079
Speaker 1: very violently. For much of the eighteen hundreds, the Rangers

205
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,559
Speaker 1: were yeah again like counterinsurgency was kind of their their bag,

206
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,640
Speaker 1: and they worked with the militia or the military as

207
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,400
Speaker 1: basically special forces. The Comanche Wars were a brutal series

208
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,000
Speaker 1: of conflicts that crossed the line and too outrighte ethnic

209
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,560
Speaker 1: cleansing on a number of occasions, and the Texas Rangers

210
00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,160
Speaker 1: were very heavily involved. One of these ethnic cleansing moments

211
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,240
Speaker 1: would be the Red Fork massacre of eighteen forty, when

212
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,560
Speaker 1: a team of Texas Volunteer Rangers surrounded a Commanche village

213
00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,400
Speaker 1: whose men were all outrating. Rather than attempt to arrest

214
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,280
Speaker 1: the women, children, and elderly inside, the rangers surrounded the

215
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,160
Speaker 1: camp and opened fire. When their rifles ran out of ammunition,

216
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,960
Speaker 1: they closed in with pistols to execute the survivors. Some

217
00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,160
Speaker 1: hundred and forty Comanches were gunned down, and probably another

218
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,319
Speaker 1: hundred and forty at least died later from exposure. Their

219
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,480
Speaker 1: horses were stolen to pay the rangers now this was

220
00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,599
Speaker 1: an act of genocide. UM. And it was also a

221
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,440
Speaker 1: pretty such a fundamentally military endeavor. UM. But as the

222
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,280
Speaker 1: and that's that's generally when you're we're talking about like

223
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,120
Speaker 1: the the kind of cutting edge of the genocide against

224
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,120
Speaker 1: the Native Americans, the intentional parts of it, UM, we

225
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,200
Speaker 1: are often talking about a military endeavor, like policing plays

226
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,680
Speaker 1: a role, but it's it's a lot of like the U. S.

227
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,440
Speaker 1: Military UM, and the rangers move into a different part

228
00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,080
Speaker 1: of the country. But like when you get into like

229
00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,599
Speaker 1: the Little Big Horn and General Custer stand that was

230
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,200
Speaker 1: a military move too, and in a lot of ways,

231
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,000
Speaker 1: the ingredients were the same also in the sense that

232
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,480
Speaker 1: like this is where the cron nation lives. Uh, now

233
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,320
Speaker 1: we actually but we only live here because y'all made

234
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,960
Speaker 1: us live here. And then you discover gold in the

235
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,320
Speaker 1: Black Hills and now you want our land again and

236
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:53,160
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, so just it's like obviously in a Little

237
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:58,160
Speaker 1: Big Horn, it's because they grossly underestimated, um sitting bowl.

238
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,280
Speaker 1: But uh but that but that but that continual like

239
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:09,720
Speaker 1: um like fake diplomacy, which was really a militarized ethnic

240
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,439
Speaker 1: cleansing from what I know from the first tour I

241
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 1: ever did was twenty seven Native American Reservations, so first

242
00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,720
Speaker 1: tour as a as an artist. So when you start

243
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,360
Speaker 1: talking to them about the way that they see these things,

244
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,560
Speaker 1: they were, Yeah, it's in their mind it's always been

245
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,800
Speaker 1: an act of military. Yeah. Yeah, And that's that's part

246
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,280
Speaker 1: of I guess why we haven't kind of gone into

247
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,400
Speaker 1: that aspect as much, um and one of one of

248
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,840
Speaker 1: the just because like it's it's less of a policing

249
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,800
Speaker 1: thing and more of a military thing. Although those lines blur,

250
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,360
Speaker 1: and they blur especially with the Texas Rangers because while

251
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,720
Speaker 1: the Rangers kind of our start out as as a

252
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,120
Speaker 1: quasi military force, as the eighteen hundreds turned into the

253
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,760
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds and kind of the frontier fades, the Rangers

254
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,400
Speaker 1: transitioned into a law enforcement agency and they become they're

255
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,120
Speaker 1: broadly similar to the U. S. Marshals like today, that's

256
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,119
Speaker 1: kind of like more or less where they land, um,

257
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 1: and they're but they're like this weird Texas state law

258
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,520
Speaker 1: enforcement agency that kind of resembles in a lot of

259
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 1: ways more of like a FED type agency than it

260
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,000
Speaker 1: does you know, a beat cop, but their their law

261
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,480
Speaker 1: enforcement now, so they and they still exist. Yeah, they

262
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,880
Speaker 1: still exist. They go from being like okay, not like uh,

263
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,960
Speaker 1: it's not like Queen Elizabeth, like they actually do no

264
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 1: no no. If you fly into um, if you fly

265
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,600
Speaker 1: into love Field Airport today in Dallas, which is the

266
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,240
Speaker 1: airport you want to fly into and out of in

267
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,119
Speaker 1: Dallas because DFW was a goddamn nightmare. There's a statue.

268
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,960
Speaker 1: There's a statue of like a dude, a cowboy looking

269
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:37,720
Speaker 1: dude with a six gun on his hip. That's like

270
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,080
Speaker 1: a statue of the Texas Rangers. And I think it's

271
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,560
Speaker 1: like the words written on under one Ranger, one Riot,

272
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,640
Speaker 1: which is their motto. And we'll be talking about where

273
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,960
Speaker 1: where that motto really comes from now. But they're no,

274
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 1: they're still around. There's still a law enforcement agency in Texas.

275
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,400
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's the they kind of transition from being

276
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,640
Speaker 1: a military guerrilla warfare unit to being like the law

277
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,040
Speaker 1: um and and as a side note, as a side note,

278
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:04,680
Speaker 1: I still don't know what a U. S. Marshal does

279
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,560
Speaker 1: except for fly on a plane. You know a lot

280
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: of that's true. Yeah, the movie US Marshals, I think

281
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,800
Speaker 1: is perfectly accurate. Just watched watched the movie US marshals

282
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,160
Speaker 1: with Robert Downey Jr. And uh and Tommy Lee Jones.

283
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,840
Speaker 1: And I think that's a hundred percent right. Um. Yeah.

284
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,040
Speaker 1: I was like, so this is unnecessary. Your whole job

285
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:27,120
Speaker 1: is unnecessary, Okay, go so Um. The new Texas Rangers

286
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 1: as law enforcement, um didn't act as like military scouts anymore,

287
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,520
Speaker 1: but they still enforced white supremacy at the barrel of

288
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,520
Speaker 1: a gun. In nineteen eighteen, at a place called Poor Veneer,

289
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,440
Speaker 1: Texas Rangers gunned down fifteen unarmed Mexican people and drove

290
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,160
Speaker 1: their families across the border into Mexico. I found a

291
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,840
Speaker 1: fun article on the Rangers in the Texas Observer, which

292
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,280
Speaker 1: is a great news source on Texas. They do like

293
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,880
Speaker 1: really big journalism. Uh. And they interviewed historian and professor

294
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,080
Speaker 1: Monica Martinez about the history of the Texas Rangers. Uh.

295
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,320
Speaker 1: The article notes quote martinez Is research posits the height

296
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,800
Speaker 1: of Texas Ranger violence against mex Sickens to have occurred

297
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,120
Speaker 1: from nineteen fifteen to nineteen nineteen. Some three hundred ethnic

298
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,440
Speaker 1: Mexicans were murdered between nineteen fifteen and nineteen sixteen alone.

299
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 1: These dates coincided with the reign of not only the

300
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,960
Speaker 1: disgraced Governor James poff Ferguson, but also, starting in nineteen seventeen,

301
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,040
Speaker 1: the oft venerated William P. Hobby. Martinez is appropriately unsparing

302
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,360
Speaker 1: in the detailing of hobbies consistently anti Hispanic, anti double

303
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,080
Speaker 1: a CP agenda. In short, he used the Rangers as

304
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,640
Speaker 1: his own personal goon squad and instigating intimidation tactics against minorities.

305
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,960
Speaker 1: Hobby presided over an era that, according to Martinez, saw

306
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,280
Speaker 1: the widespread practice of executing landowning Hispanic men to force

307
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,280
Speaker 1: the sale of their land by their widows through threats

308
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:45,680
Speaker 1: of physical violence. Much yeah, much the same Hobby from

309
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:50,880
Speaker 1: the Houston Airport. Yeah wait, same guy, Yeah I think so, yes, yes, yes, yes,

310
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 1: George Billson. Then there's Hobby. That's that's like, yeah, that's

311
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,520
Speaker 1: Houston's love Field, you know what I'm saying. Yeah their

312
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,560
Speaker 1: other airport. Yeah yeah yeah. Have said violence aided and embedded,

313
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 1: if not directly perpetrated by the Rangers with the state

314
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,120
Speaker 1: official state consent, Powerful US political elites like Hobby made

315
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,000
Speaker 1: sure that any serious investigation of Ranger crimes through official

316
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,040
Speaker 1: legal channels would be doomed to failure. Now yeah, that

317
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 1: is just just straight up ethnic cleansing again, like like

318
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,840
Speaker 1: there's still ethnically cleansing people. Um. And obviously I didn't

319
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,480
Speaker 1: learn any of that in Texas history classes. I learned

320
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,399
Speaker 1: about them fighting the Comanche, but it was it was

321
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,240
Speaker 1: framed as like, well, they were, you know, both two

322
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,160
Speaker 1: sides in a war and they both did bad things. Um. Yeah,

323
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,040
Speaker 1: now uh, it turns out that and this is I

324
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,240
Speaker 1: also didn't learn in middle school. It turns out that

325
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 1: the Texas Mexican border was kind of prior to this

326
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,440
Speaker 1: point where the Texas Rangers come in and start murdering landloaders,

327
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,880
Speaker 1: it was a semi autonomous region because it was both

328
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,240
Speaker 1: too remote and too close to Mexico to really be

329
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 1: controlled by any central government. So people on the border

330
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,960
Speaker 1: from both countries would travel freely and like cross the

331
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,320
Speaker 1: border kind of without even noticing it was there. They

332
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,480
Speaker 1: built communities together, they had families together, they traded together, um.

333
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,080
Speaker 1: And this was great for them, but it was really

334
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,600
Speaker 1: bad for rich people and racests who lived many hundreds

335
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,359
Speaker 1: of miles away. So the Texas Rangers were sent in

336
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,760
Speaker 1: to secure the border, and this was like the first

337
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,760
Speaker 1: time the border was really secure and again they did

338
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,040
Speaker 1: this by executing people who owned land near the border

339
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,920
Speaker 1: and handing their stuff actually Mexican people who own land

340
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 1: in the border, and handing their stuff over to white people. Um.

341
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,919
Speaker 1: The dead were portrayed as bandits and criminals, and heavily

342
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,840
Speaker 1: armed Rangers would pose for photographs with their bodies. By

343
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,400
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen, the sheer scale of the violence and forced

344
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,480
Speaker 1: to state legislative hearing on extra judicial killings by the Rangers.

345
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 1: This hearing resulted in no formal charges, and the detailed

346
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,840
Speaker 1: record of the Texas Rangers mass murder spree was sealed

347
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 1: for fifty years so as to not tarnish their record

348
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,880
Speaker 1: as tex and heroes. Yeah, I bet, I bet. Also,

349
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,320
Speaker 1: also there's parts of El Paso that are still like that.

350
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 1: Then you still can't tell where the border is and

351
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 1: isn't where there's a there's a high school down there.

352
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,639
Speaker 1: I know because the kid came to a show where

353
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,919
Speaker 1: the football field is in Mexico. Yeah, and then but

354
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 1: the rest of the school is in Texas, so nobody

355
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:12,960
Speaker 1: really knows where. We really don't know where it is.

356
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,159
Speaker 1: But yeah, anyway, I just thought that's interesting that, like

357
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 1: to this day that like it's important for us to

358
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,359
Speaker 1: all remember that borders are made up. They're not Yeah,

359
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,879
Speaker 1: we made them up. You know. They're just by pain.

360
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:31,160
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, maybe it's not They're not real and they're

361
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, enforced by pain is a good way to yeah.

362
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,880
Speaker 1: Uh So. The Texas Rangers went well into the twentieth

363
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 1: century acting as a colonial police force. They didn't stop

364
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 1: in nineteen um and Alex Fatali, author of the end

365
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 1: of policing rights quote. In the sixties and seventies, local

366
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,359
Speaker 1: and state elites used Rangers to suppress the political and

367
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,360
Speaker 1: economic rights of Mexican Americans and played a central role

368
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,120
Speaker 1: in subverting farm worker movements by shutting down meetings, intimidating supporters,

369
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,239
Speaker 1: and arresting and brutalizing picketers and union leaders. There were

370
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 1: also frequent they called in to intimidate Mexican Americans out

371
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,439
Speaker 1: of voting in local elections. Most Latinos were subject to

372
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,640
Speaker 1: a kind of wan crow like it's a Jim Crow's thing,

373
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 1: in which they were denied the right to vote and

374
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 1: barred from private and public accommodations such as hotels, restaurants,

375
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,800
Speaker 1: bus station waiting rooms, public pools, and bathrooms. This is

376
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 1: what that statue in love Field is referring to when

377
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,439
Speaker 1: it says one Ranger, one riot, that's the riot is

378
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,920
Speaker 1: the is is Mexicans being like, what if we had

379
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,479
Speaker 1: the right to vote in Texas? Ranger's saying, what if

380
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 1: we shot you? You still have to say to yourself,

381
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,440
Speaker 1: like if it's so you, like everybody's a situation is

382
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 1: so unique. But like as a as a Texan Mexican

383
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:46,639
Speaker 1: where you never moved, your house, never moved, it's just

384
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 1: the land up under you became Texas and then everybody

385
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 1: acting like you ain't puposed to be here, that you

386
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 1: ain't got right. So he was like, I I've never left.

387
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 1: I don't understand how I don't have rights in land.

388
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 1: I never left. Yeah, you're the new guys. Yeah, it's

389
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 1: just the mind bender of that. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah,

390
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:13,199
Speaker 1: it's pretty cool and good. So the Rangers were eventually

391
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 1: beaten back to an extent in the early nineteen sixties

392
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 1: when Tahanos began to organize in a significant way. They

393
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 1: set up voter drives and fought literally fought in some

394
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: points to get leaders elected on the local city council

395
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 1: of a small town called Crystal City. This whole operation

396
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 1: exploded into a big fight with Rangers cracking skulls and

397
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: trying to break up rallies. Um. But this time they're victims.

398
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,959
Speaker 1: Attracted the attention of the press, The Rangers eventually were

399
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: forced to back down by public opinion, and the ta

400
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 1: Haanos won both the election and major civil rights concessions

401
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: from the white majority you know, all across Texas, and

402
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: things started to get better. Obviously they're still not perfect

403
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,919
Speaker 1: or even great, but they got better. Um. Today, the

404
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,479
Speaker 1: Texas Rangers are sort of just like a weird Texan

405
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 1: variant of the U. S. Marshals. They do a lot

406
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,239
Speaker 1: of unsolved crime investigations like cold case murder or as

407
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,400
Speaker 1: they investigate serial killers. UM. They also act as kind

408
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: of like they're supposed to be kind of a watchdog

409
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: for the police because they investigate officer involved shootings, and

410
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 1: of course they do border security UM. And the fact

411
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: that they have a I don't know enough about how

412
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: they do today to know how problematic they are and

413
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 1: sort of currently in the vein of the rest of

414
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 1: law enforcement. I will say they have a very positive

415
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: reputation among just Texans UM. And this is not due

416
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 1: to anything they actually do, but is owed largely to

417
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties TV show Walker Texas Ranger, in which

418
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:39,160
Speaker 1: Chuck Norris assume because Norris. Yeah, Chuck Norris basically erased

419
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: the Centurion and change long history of ethnic cleansing and genocide,

420
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: um by doing enough roundhouse kicks while wearing a bad

421
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: join Us chest that people are like, ah, they're okay.

422
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: Now punched a bear. Look at at me? Punched a bear. Yeah,

423
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 1: he's got to be a good guy. Uh yeah. And

424
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 1: in sort of in following this arc of like committing genocide,

425
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: acting as like a military force of ethnic cleansing and

426
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: like like mass murder to suppress minorities, and then getting

427
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 1: whitewashed by a TV show with Chuck Norris, the Texas

428
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: Rangers kind of perfectly encapsulated a lot of law enforcement

429
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: history in this country. That is the most acinct sentence.

430
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 1: Is the most scinct sentence we've done this whole series. Yeah,

431
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: they protested all six they participated in at least two genocides.

432
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 1: But then Chuck Norris started kicking all right, spinning roundhouse kid. Uh.

433
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: Also also as a native Californian who married a first

434
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 1: Gin Mexican woman from Southern Mexico. I will go to

435
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: my grave that I am not a fan of tex

436
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: mex food in that case, so is terrible. Oh no,

437
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: that's the only thing I'll fight for about Texas is

438
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: text Max. Hey, man, Hey, I'll take your fajitas. They're great,

439
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 1: but you can lead a case fucking Calimex putting fish

440
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: in everything. Come on, yeah, I mean it's actually all

441
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: pretty incredible compared to the burritos we get up here

442
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: in the Pacific Northwest. Yeah, don't call those burritos. You know,

443
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: they're not They're not burritos. Somebody put Keen Waw in

444
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: one of them. I was just you, what are you? Yeah,

445
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: that's a rap. Come on, don't call this a fucking burrito.

446
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 1: So in our last episode of the series, we talked

447
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: about August Volmer. You remember Valmer, like the the good,

448
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: the best cop that we're we're going to talk about

449
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: the series. Yeah. Um, probably the most influential police chief

450
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 1: in US history. Volmer was a big advocate of what

451
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 1: is called like the professional model of policing, of like

452
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,199
Speaker 1: what a police force should be. Um. He believed that

453
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: police officers should be trained professionals with college degrees and

454
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: when he thought trained professional, he was not thinking about killing, right, Like,

455
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: their ability to handle a gun and shoot people was

456
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: kind of low on Volmer's list of what cops should

457
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: be fessional at um. He focused on the number one

458
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: their ability to kind of scientifically solve crimes um and

459
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: their ability to interface with and be parts of communities. Um.

460
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: And these are both still things. Yeah, broadly, there's still problematic.

461
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: One of the things we won't get into enough is

462
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,959
Speaker 1: that number one, like a lot of police science fingerprinting

463
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: and stuff works a lot less well than than they

464
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: say it does, so like and ship like yeah, like

465
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of problems with that. And there's

466
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: also people who argue that community policing doesn't like is

467
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: better than you know, maybe what we're doing now, but

468
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: doesn't really work all that well. Like there's arguments to

469
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 1: be made. We're not going to get into them enough.

470
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: I don't want to be saying that. Like his attitude

471
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: was perfect, but I think it was less problematic. Yeah,

472
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 1: was he like the like the precursor to like c

473
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: S I Miami, you know, like yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely,

474
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: you gotta like scientifically solve these crimes and that everything

475
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: that has a science degree in forensics is unimaginably gorgeous,

476
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: and they work in a lab that is looks more

477
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: like a club. Yeah, yeah, it's really all. Yeah, it's

478
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 1: really well it. Yeah. Volmer is the guy who advocates

479
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: for like sexy, brilliant um doctor cops who like, yeah, yeah, exactly,

480
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: that's that's that's kind of his vision. Yes, oh my god,

481
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: an incredible shape with abs, like like how do they

482
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: get abs that nice? And also do police work. Yeah,

483
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: so Volmer, that's Volmer's attitude. That's kind of the professional

484
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: model of policing. But Volmer was not the only person

485
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: with a vision of what policing should be, and there

486
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: was a you know, in the nineteen twenties in particular,

487
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 1: a competing model of policing started to evolve. Now, if

488
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: you remember your high school history courses, you'll know that

489
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: the period from like eighteen seventy seven to eighteen ninety

490
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: five is referred to broadly as the Gilded Age, and

491
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: this was a time of massive wealth inequality, a period

492
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: that saw the USA's first multi millionaires rise alongside a

493
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: devin stating series of economic recessions and depressions. Um the

494
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: Gilded Age was a time of intense political polarization. Political

495
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: parties got like at each other's throats in a way

496
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: they really hadn't been, you know, you know, prior to

497
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: the Civil War, which I guess hadn't been that long ago.

498
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: So let's not pretend that hasn't always been an aspect

499
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: of our politics. But yeah, uh, And around the turn

500
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: of the century, um, the Gilded Age kind of gave

501
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: way to what's called the progressive era. And progressive today

502
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: is the term we broadly used for just like folks

503
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 1: on the left, but back then it meant something different,

504
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: and like, progressives of this era kind of had things

505
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: in common with both our modern left and right. Um,

506
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: some of the values they had in common with, like

507
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: today's lefties, would be sort of a rejection of conservative

508
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: individualism in favor of more collective attitudes towards the common good.

509
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: Progressives wanted to use state power to do things like

510
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: help lower class individuals, workers, immigrants, you know, the urban poor.

511
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: They stood against the greed of unchecked capitalism and the

512
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: corruption of a system of party bosses that had dominated

513
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: urban politics and US cities during the Gilded Age. And

514
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: the progressives weren't really they progressive was a political orientation,

515
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: but they didn't really care about They weren't like super

516
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: into parties. Like a lot of the progressive air was

517
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: kind of a rejection of where party politics had led

518
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: things in the Gilded Age. That's a factor in this too.

519
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: And when you when you read what I just read,

520
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: the progressives kind of sound like lefties, but that's not

521
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: all they were. Many progressives also held deeply conservative attitudes

522
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: towards religion and acceptable social behavior. Progressives were by and

523
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: large a homogeneous, middle class, white Protestant group. Um. They

524
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: achewed political parties in favor of local informal organizations like

525
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: the Anti Saloon League. And as that last bit, Mike KEYU,

526
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: we are in on a whole lot of Uh, Progressives

527
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: were very jazzed about prohibition. Um. And it's also progressives

528
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: that also, you know, as an aside that brings us

529
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: like early race science, um, for for some reasons we're

530
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: going to get into. So the progressives are a mix

531
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: of left and right and problematic as all hell like. Yeah,

532
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: It's also it's also a good lesson for the modern thinker,

533
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: the younger thinker to remember that like even our terms

534
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: left and right are so malleable, and they haven't always

535
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 1: meant the same thing that you can like find it.

536
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: So like George Bush seen you're talking about climate change,

537
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: because the talking points can vary in these just like

538
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: borders are made up terms and they are very malluable.

539
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: So even just jumping into this time with a vocabulary

540
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: list that you think you know in seeing that like nah,

541
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: you'd like those are also malleable too, is like super good.

542
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: That's so, which is one reason why I love this

543
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: this part of American history and politics. Yeah, and it's

544
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: it's like it's fascinating. Um, it's very because they're like

545
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: part of why they get into race science is that

546
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: like this idea that again we kind of think of

547
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: as broadly positive today, those of this idea that like, okay,

548
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: the poor, it's like we should use the government state

549
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: resources to help deal with things like homelessness and poverty. Um.

550
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: But the way a lot of progressives take that, it's like, okay, well,

551
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: let's figure out the root causes of homelessness and Proverty point,

552
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: it seems like certain races of people are more likely

553
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: to be homeless, you're impoverished. Maybe part of what the

554
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: government should be doing to solve this problem is sterilized them.

555
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: That's that's where the thought process goes. It's just like

556
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: has a weird sharp left? Yeah, there's there's obviously there

557
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: are certain things I think the government ought to be

558
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: doing that it shouldn't. But let's never forget that when

559
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: you start talking about the government ought to do this

560
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: or that, that can go badly too. Which doesn't mean

561
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: we shouldn't try to solve problems, but let's all keep

562
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: that in our fucking head. Let's remember yes, um, yeah,

563
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: So have you ever read Justice by um Michael Sandow?

564
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: Oh no, I have not. Yeah, this is a good one, um.

565
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: And it's a complete tangent knowing that you have forty

566
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: five more pages to read. But it is important to know,

567
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: like what he talked about, what the basic premises, like

568
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: you're what you see as just, um, and how you

569
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: define what justice is? If if you can answer that question,

570
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: it could tell me where you're probably gonna land historically

571
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: and politically, Like, for example, if you think just means

572
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: the greatest good for all, so everybody looks at like

573
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: what's the greater good? How can the most amount of

574
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: people see the most amount of flourishing you're probably gonna

575
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: lean more liberal and progressive. Right. Uh, if you're like, no,

576
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: justice means leave me alone to figure out how I

577
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: want to make things happen. It is unjust for you

578
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: to limit my liberties. Well that's like libertarian and you know,

579
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: moving into that area where like justice means lead me alone, right,

580
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: you don't get to tell me how to do things.

581
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: But if you're like, justice means there is a right

582
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: way to do stuff, and that right way we all

583
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: need to fall in line. And that's more a conservative lean.

584
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: So if you say that that's that, then that makes

585
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: a just society. So if you look at things like that,

586
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: then when you jump into this region, you're going they're

587
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: answering the question how do we make how do we

588
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: make a just society? But their solution was, well, you know,

589
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: brown people suck, so they shouldn't have the more children. Yeah. Yeah,

590
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: it's complex, complex period to talk about um and yeah,

591
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: so yeah, you know what doesn't support eugenics prop Well,

592
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: hopefully the products and services that yeah advertise on this place.

593
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: That's our that's our one line. Sophie calls every advertiser

594
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: and and just says the word eugenics and kind of

595
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: like that way. Yeah. Have you ever measured a brain? Yeah?

596
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: Do you do? You take skull measurements? Yes? Um, all right,

597
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: here's some ads. We're back, We're back, And I just

598
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: I hope to god that was not an ad for

599
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: a company that sells calibers. Um, tell me you're not

600
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: selling calibers. Yeah, yeah, Sophie, I mean, these calibers are

601
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: just off with the promo code. Bastards. On a personal note,

602
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: On a personal note, I remember the first time I

603
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: saw some of those like phrenology, like like manuals and drawings.

604
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: I was just a visual artist, so I was like, dude,

605
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: that's so cool, and I wanted to buy one of

606
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: those old ones. And then then then my father looked

607
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: at me and was like, boy, if you don't get

608
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: that out my house, it's a funny moment anyway. So um,

609
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: all right, So we were talking about the progressives and

610
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: particularly the fact that they get they get a whole

611
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: hog and the motherfucking prohibition. Uh. And I'm gonna quote

612
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,479
Speaker 1: next from a paper by Ellen Leichtman, an associate professor

613
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: from Eastern Kentucky University that's about early police militarization. She

614
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: starts by kind of talking about the genesis of a

615
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: lot of progressive thought. So she's talking about progressives here.

616
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: As the city's grew, many of them began to yearn

617
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: for a small town pass that had existed mostly in

618
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: their imaginations. These towns were conceptualized as homogeneous villages where

619
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: everyone knew everyone else and looked after each other. While

620
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: small town still existed throughout the country, Progressives bemoan the

621
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: fact that these traits could not be transferred to urban living. Actually,

622
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: many of these traits could be found in urban immigrant neighborhoods,

623
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: but progressives could not transfer their idealized image of small

624
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: town living to a foreign environment. The small towns they

625
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: had envisioned were based on Anglo Saxon Protestant ethics and culture,

626
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: not the Catholic, Italian and Irish, Eastern European, Jewish and

627
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: other customs of the immigrant neighborhoods, which did not hold

628
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: with many of the Sumptuary laws, especially that of Prohibition.

629
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 1: So dear to the progressives, hearts. So they they're they're big,

630
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: family oriented people, but the actual like the people who

631
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: are really living the kind of family oriented small towns

632
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: sort of life within the big cities. Are these immigrants

633
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: and they drink and progressives hate that. Um So progressives

634
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: get their way on prohibitions starting January seventeenth, nineteen twenty.

635
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: But it didn't go well, and the first two years

636
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: of prohibition saw overall crime increase by twenty four percent nationwide.

637
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: This included a thirteen percent increase in homicide and at

638
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: increase in assault and battery. Most of this violence was

639
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: driven by the in worsemen of prohibition. One study that

640
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 1: compared South Carolina counties that did and did not enforce

641
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: prohibition found that enforcement led to a thirty to sixt

642
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: increase in homicides. Yeah, a lot of people get killed

643
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: when you prohibit drugs arbitrarily. It turns out this is

644
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: a lesson maybe we should have learned. Yeah, yeah, Yeah,

645
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: there's at some point somebody needs to go ahead and

646
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: go in and explain how there was really no scientific

647
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: reasoning behind prohibition, just snop political power. People just didn't

648
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: like alcohol and wanted the state to stop something they

649
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: didn't like from happening. Uh So, Yeah, the increase massive

650
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: increase in violence as a result of prohibition infuriated a

651
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: lot of progressives, and rather than recognize that prohibition was

652
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: maybe a bad idea. A lot of them started pushing

653
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: hard to use state power to put an end to

654
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 1: bootlegging in an organized fashion, and this is what led

655
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 1: to the first major challenge to August Vollmer's Like professional

656
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: model of of police, many progressives began to push for

657
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: an alternate idea, a military model of a police force.

658
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote again from Professor Lakeman, well, there

659
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: was substantial overlap between the professional and military models, and

660
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: that both insisted that the police be autonomous, be subject

661
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: to physical requirements, and used the latest technology to defeat crime.

662
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 1: There was a difference in focus. For the military model.

663
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: The city and its police represented the nation and its

664
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: standing army. People who broke the law were equated to

665
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: enemies of the state, not citizens, and became person and

666
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: on grata in their own country. To fight these adversaries,

667
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: the uniformed branch of the police and the detectives the

668
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: non uniformed branch, were equated to different services of the military.

669
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: Illegal behavior was seen as an attack on the American

670
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: way of life. To save the country, the police had

671
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: to engage in a war on crime. Needless to say,

672
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: many cities began recruiting military men to run their departments,

673
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: and Jason, one of these military men, was a fellow

674
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: You and I discussed kind of off handedly in one

675
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: of the first episodes of the series. You remember when

676
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: I read you that quote from Marine Corps Major J. L.

677
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: Smedley Butler. Yes, Smithley, Yeah, Now, that quote was from

678
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: kind of after he woke up a bit um and

679
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: started to realize some problems with earlier aspects of his career. Um.

680
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: But in nineteen twenty four he was still a Marine

681
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: Corps general in the city of Philadelphia elected Freeland Kendrick

682
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: mayor on a law and order platform. Kendrick, a Republican,

683
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: was livid that his city had more speakeasies than perhaps

684
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: any other area in the country. The city of Brotherly

685
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: Love had estimated eight thousands of legal bars in liquor

686
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: stores in nineteen because it's Philly. You know, it's fucking Philly, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

687
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: Philly is always on brand, So yes. Mark Kendrick decided

688
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: that a military man and a military model were needed

689
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: to reform the Philadelphia p D into something that could

690
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: tackle the problem of vice, and he chose Marine Brigadier

691
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: General Smedley Darlington Butler to be the new director of

692
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: public Safety. And again, Butler was still in the military

693
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 1: at this point. He had to get like a special

694
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: a special like leave from the Marine courts so that

695
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: he could go be the director of public safety in Philadelphia. UM.

696
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: So he's still a general. He's still in the military

697
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: as he takes over a police force. UM. Now at

698
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: age forty two in nineteen forty two, General Butler had

699
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: survived fourteen campaigns and expeditions over twenty two years of service.

700
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: He had joined the military illegally as a literal child

701
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: after lying about his age in order to fight in

702
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 1: the Philippines. UM. During his time fighting for capitalism in

703
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: his own you know, that's how he framed it. Later,

704
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: Butler had earned the nicknames Old gimlet Ie, Hell's Devil Butler,

705
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: the fighting Quaker, and old duck boards. Like he had

706
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: a lot of nicknames. Fighting Quaker, Yeah, that's a that's

707
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: a good nickname. That's a tattoo bro y, and he

708
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: gets the nickname waker. Like old duckboards are like wood

709
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 1: boards they would put down and like trench fighting because

710
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: it was like muddy, so that you would be able

711
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 1: to walk and like basically there during World War One,

712
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: there was this fight where like everything was fucking muddy

713
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,439
Speaker 1: as ship and they needed to get boards into place,

714
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: and Butler, who was like I think a general still

715
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: at this point, just picks up a funckload of boards

716
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: and like runs into the battlefield to like set them down,

717
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: and like he he's he won two medals of Honor

718
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: and he wanted to yeah, and he wanted Distinguished Service Cross,

719
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: which is like the British like award, like their Medal

720
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: of Honor. Like he he wins two of our medals

721
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: of honor and like the British equivalent or inside their

722
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: British to the French equivalent, like he's he's he's not

723
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: just like an officer who like commands troops in battle

724
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: from like a safe position like like Smedley Butler, whatever

725
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: else you want to say about him, it's a fucking

726
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: terrifying badass. Um like he was. He was just like

727
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: one of these guys with like a contempt for his

728
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: own safety and battle. Um. Yeah, man, hey, does you

729
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: know any kids like that when you were like in

730
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: Texas growing up, where he's just a kid that you

731
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: were just like this guy yeah, is dangerous and doesn't

732
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: care about his body, but I'm my friend. Yeah yeah, yeah,

733
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: those are good people to have be friends with. Um

734
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: outside of certain situations. Yeah yeah, yeah. So but that's

735
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: that's Smedley Butler at this period. So he's kind of

736
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: a legend. He's still a general and he gets made

737
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: the director of public safety in Philadelphia. Um. And you know,

738
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: Butler himself was a progressive UM. And he he was

739
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: also a drinker, like not a heavy one, but he

740
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: drank um. So he didn't like prohibition, but he was progressive, progressive. Yeah,

741
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: it was kind of his belief that even bad laws

742
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: had to be enforced for the sake of public good.

743
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 1: And upon taking off, as he stated, I do not

744
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: care whether the state laws or city ordinances are right

745
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: or wrong. From January seven, they are going to be enforced.

746
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: So like that's his attitudes like that, And that's such

747
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: a military Yes, it is. Yeah. When you when you

748
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: said earlier, like I've never heard that train of thought

749
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: put in the order that you put it when you

750
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: were like, Um, an act of crime is an act

751
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: against the state. Therefore you are no longer a citizen.

752
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: You are now an enemy combatant. I've never heard that

753
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: train of logic because I never understood how if you're policeman,

754
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: how you like, who are you fighting? Like you're fighting

755
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: the people you're supposed to protect? Like, I don't get it.

756
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: That sentence finally at least made me be able to

757
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: follow the logic. I just wanted to go back and

758
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: point that out. Yeah, and this is this is one

759
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 1: of the things that we're seeing in Philadelphia right now

760
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: is like the the first time where so obviously you've

761
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: had uh, um, you've had the police being used to

762
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: suppress segments of the American the dangerous classes, right, um,

763
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: and this like primarily black and brown people. In this

764
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: period of time, what we start to see happening with

765
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: the militarization of the Philadelphia police is kind of the

766
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: first time the police are at war with everyone in

767
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: the city like that that because you know, white people broadly, um,

768
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: if they weren't members of a dangerous racial group, um

769
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: could see the police's protectors in this period. And that

770
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: starts to change in Philly because in Philly, like, yeah,

771
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: they they this is the first time like the police

772
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: like again, and the police in the twenties are heavily

773
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: corrupt and a lot of them are criminals, but they're

774
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: not is an organized force. They're not going to war

775
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: with the city. This is the first time that really

776
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: happens that because like you were selling drugs now, yeah,

777
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: just calls nine yeah yeah yeah. Um. So. Butler gave

778
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: his first address to the Philly p D in a

779
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: uniform he had designed for himself, complete with a cape,

780
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 1: which is a flex like yeah, yeah, if you got

781
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: if you got that many medals on the from multiple countries,

782
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: you could wear a cape. You get to wear a cape.

783
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: Yeah fuck it, yeah, ok. Yeah. He demanded the police

784
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: stopped making bribes, and he told them that while the

785
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: rest of the city might see them as just a

786
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: bunch of corrupt gangsters, he saw them as soldiers, like

787
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: the Marines he'd spent years commanding in battle, and that's

788
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: what he planned to turn them into. So Butler launched

789
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: an immediate series of raids on bootleggers and speakeasy's changing

790
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: city policy by not informing the mayor first, I think

791
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: in part because he knew the mayor knew some of

792
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: these people and had been protecting them. And in a

793
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: matter of days, Butler's police closed down nine hundred illegal

794
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: bars now. At the same time as he cracked down,

795
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: General Butler began the process of transforming the Philadelphia Police

796
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: into a military force. He created a new squad of

797
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: three hundred officers whose job was to spy on their

798
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: fellow cops. These men would be the teeth behind Butler's

799
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: admonition that Philly cops had to stop taking bribes. Another

800
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 1: of Butler's first steps was to abolish the Police Training

801
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 1: School see Volmer August Volmer. When it educated professionals with

802
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: like degrees in criminal justice, who like approached crime from

803
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: a scientific standpoint, General Butler thought that was bullshit. He

804
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: thought that cops, like soldiers, learned best in the field.

805
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: Um and before his term, police training had taken more

806
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: than three months. Butler's new policies sent the cops that

807
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: on the street almost immediately gave them like a booklet

808
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 1: that outlined their duties and was just like, you'll figure

809
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 1: it out once you're on the street. When you talk

810
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: about binary thinking, yeah, you either a get trained for

811
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: three months or be get a little pamphlet. Get a

812
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 1: little pamphlet it, Yeah, go crack some heads. You'll learn quick.

813
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 1: You'll figure it out, Like there, maybe they're somewhere in

814
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: between there, maybe we could pull a little bit of

815
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 1: his little bit of that. Just those my two options, yep,

816
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 1: and it's it's like so, the one thing that's interesting

817
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: is that Butler didn't actually cancel all training. There was

818
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: exactly one area where police still trained because he thought

819
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: it was important, and it was in the use of firearms. Um.

820
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 1: He had realized early on that most cops barely knew

821
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: how to use their weapons, and even fewer ever fired them.

822
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: Butler thought this was a problem because he again, he's

823
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: treating them as soldiers. So he mandated two weeks of

824
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: marksmanship training, which was the only training his cops received.

825
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: He also, rather bafflingly, decided to arm the fire department

826
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 1: with forty five caliber revolvers, which, yeah, he gave. He

827
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: gave all the firefighters guns, and he required them to

828
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: wear their guns off duty. Um well, they had arresting powers.

829
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: Firefighters could arrest people in those days, so he was like,

830
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 1: when you're off, you're all auxiliary cops, and you need

831
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: to carry guns in case you have to shoot some people. Basically,

832
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: he viewed all public safety employees as soldiers who might

833
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: potentially get called in to fight a war against the

834
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: criminals within their city, and since every criminal was now

835
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: the same as a foreign combatant, Butler started applying the

836
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 1: same counterinsurgency tactics he'd learned in the Philippines and throughout

837
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: Latin America. He announced that he would give a promotion

838
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: to the first officer to kill a bandit. The bandit

839
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 1: in question did not have to be committing a violent crime.

840
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 1: If he had a revolver in hand or on his

841
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: body while he was being chased, that was fair game

842
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: for the Philadelphia p D. From Professor Lichtmann's paper quote.

843
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: Butler took this further and stated that like soldiers, those

844
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: police who killed criminals should not be called upon to

845
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 1: either defend themselves or to contribute to their defense. A

846
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: policeman who shoots a bandit is serving his city exactly

847
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: as a soldier when firing at his country's enemies. Butler

848
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: said he saw no difference in context between the role

849
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: of the soldier and that of a police officer. That's bad. Yeah,

850
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: it's not great, I mean, and we we wound up

851
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: nationwide with the same ruling. Butler made that it's cool

852
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: to shoot people running away. It was like in the

853
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: eighties of the early nineties where the it was like

854
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court ruled that if you a police officer

855
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: can shoot you, even if you're not actively threatening them,

856
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: if you're trying to get away from an arrest, Like,

857
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 1: that's a thing that could happen. It's why cops get

858
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 1: to shoot so many people in the back. Um, it's

859
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: it's fine. So Butler saw no reason why his soldier

860
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: cops shouldn't have access to the latest in military grade weaponry.

861
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: He ordered several customized armored cars to enable his officers

862
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: to get into motorized gunfights with bootleggers. Rather than holding

863
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 1: two men as with a normal police car, these armored

864
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: buggies held four officers. The rear seats were set up

865
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: back to back with the front seats so that the

866
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: men in the bat could shoot directly at bandits without

867
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: needing to turn around. Every man in the car would

868
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: carry a rifle, a sot off shotgun, and a revolver.

869
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: And if you want to, if you want, I can't

870
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 1: imagine a gesture that shows more contempt for the people

871
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: into living in the city then firing a shot off

872
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: shotgun from a moving vehicle. That's a drive by. Yeah,

873
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: I don't understand what drive by? Yeah, it's that's so reckless.

874
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 1: Just what do you like? This is a sawt off shotguns,

875
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 1: not accurate and more than like fifteen feet in a

876
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: good situation, and you're just shooting it from a car

877
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 1: moving one at that It's fucking nuts. Yeah, yeah, fuck it?

878
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: Yeah and again like one Sorry I didn't even note

879
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: this at the start. One of Butler's like requirements when

880
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: he took the job, because he was used to being

881
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: a military officer in a foreign war zone, was that

882
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: no one questioned anything he did, like the city, not

883
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: like he'd basically be unaccountable. And they were like, shure, yeah,

884
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: that's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot of wars. I

885
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: for the first time, uh, in a little personal news,

886
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I have shot big. This is my first

887
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: positive experience with guns this weekend that we're recording this.

888
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: Every other experience has been terrifying and life threatening. This

889
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: is the first time I've ever seen a gun in

890
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: a very recreational place. And I walk away with two

891
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 1: really real thoughts, which is, you must anyone holding these

892
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: has to have a deep respect for the deadly power

893
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: in their hands, Like, how do you not revere this

894
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 1: thing like you feel it's power holding it? And then secondly,

895
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: what has to click off in your brain to be

896
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: able to point this at another human, like even recklessly

897
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: or with joy or just to not think about that.

898
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: I'm like some about your soul turned off because I

899
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: just couldn't. I've kneeled in front of a fifty cow,

900
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: which is crazy, but also held held to a R

901
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: fifteen now shooting it felt like the most powerful thing

902
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: I did in my life. I'm not gonna lie to you,

903
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: I screamed and howled. I was a redneck. I'm not

904
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 1: gonna lie. I went, WHOA, I'm not gonna lie. But

905
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, how could you point this at

906
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: a person? Yeah? It's yeah, I mean it it Um.

907
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: There's a lot too, There's a lot to say about

908
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: like what what is emotionally involved in that? And like

909
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: I have, I have, unfortunately been in a couple of situations,

910
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 1: fortunately never where I had to point my gun at

911
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: a person, but where I had a gun and somebody

912
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: was doing something violent with a weapon in their hand,

913
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: and it was like a there was like this thought

914
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: process of like where's my line gonna be yes. Yeah,

915
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: And that's what I'm saying, Like, you still have all

916
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: your faculties. I believe you're a fully developed human. So

917
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: you thought to yourself, there is a cost to this,

918
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: you know, and I don't know if this juice is

919
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: worth the squeeze. So what you're telling me is you

920
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: put four dudes and just say, shoot wildly into the city, Yes,

921
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 1: to stop people with a couple of gallons of rum. Yes, yeah,

922
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: it's pretty pretty wild. Um. So, Butler divided Philadelphia up

923
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: like a war zone with interlocking zones of control. Um that,

924
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 1: like different patrols were set for and every patrol would

925
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:30,959
Speaker 1: have like set routes that they were supposed to travel

926
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: in the event that they had to like intercept people.

927
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: There were convoys of armored vehicles, and he even set

928
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: up a number of military style outposts to allow for

929
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: better monitoring that were fortified like fortresses within Philadelphia that

930
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: we're able to act as like outposts that there we

931
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: call them fobs, forward operating bases today in Afghanistan, Like

932
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: what he did in Philadelphia is exactly the same tactically

933
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 1: as what the US does an Afghanistan today. Like that's

934
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: how he divided Philly up for his police force. Um,

935
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: because he's he was like, he was good at prosecuting

936
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: an insurgency. He knew what he he knew his business. Um,

937
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: and that's what he did to Philadelphia because it was

938
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 1: a military model police force. Now under Smedley Butler, the

939
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: entirety of Philadelphia's urban infrastructure was actually turned to the

940
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: cause of prosecuting his war on crime. He used the

941
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: street lights to broadcast blink codes to officers about what

942
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: crimes were taking place where. So he would basically do

943
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: like not semaphore, Um, what's it called? Like like like yeah,

944
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: he would blink the street lights and morse code to

945
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 1: so officers could see like, oh, there's a crime taking

946
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 1: place in this street. Um. Yeah. He had four huge

947
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: searchlights and like a big basically fucking billboard set up

948
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,760
Speaker 1: in city hall. Uh that would like display the license

949
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 1: plates of cars of that like bandit vehicles that were

950
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: in the area. Um like yeah, it's like some fucking

951
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: big brother shiit Smedley's tactics were very successful in closing

952
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 1: down a huge number of philip Alfhia speakeasies, but they

953
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: were not successful and actually winning the war for prohibition.

954
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: For one thing, a ton of officers drank, and so

955
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: did many of the mayor's wealthy backers. These same men

956
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: and women had a lot of business interests in upper

957
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 1: class clubs and restaurants that had been serving alcohol illegally

958
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: prior to Butler, but were forced to shut down due

959
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 1: to his raids. He refused to treat the favorite watering

960
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: holes of the wealthy any differently than hole in the

961
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: wall slum speakeasies, and this caused increasing problems for the

962
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: mayor who had hired him Yeah It's Yeah, Professor Lichtman Rights.

963
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: In an attempt to divert what he saw as an

964
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: imminent disaster, he asked Butler to meet with these men

965
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: and women, believing Butler could outline his plans and get

966
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 1: their cooperation. But Butler was too brusque and did not

967
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: handle the situation well. Instead of coming to some sort

968
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: of compromise with these business people, he approached them as

969
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 1: if he were a general and informed that them that

970
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,280
Speaker 1: he intended to install a special squad of undercover detectives

971
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 1: dressed in full evening attire to police these establishments. This

972
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: began a two year battle between Butler and the hospitality industry.

973
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 1: But there must have assumed that either the public would

974
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: support these laws or that he that he could enforce

975
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: them against public opinion. What he learned was what many

976
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 1: occupying armies learned. It is often the oppressed that prevail culturally.

977
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: Those arrested for liquor and fractions came before magistrates who

978
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 1: released them for lack of evidence. When Butler began padlocking

979
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: the establishments of persistent liquor violators, judges rejected his arguments

980
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 1: and allowed the places to reopen. He also came to

981
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: the realization that many policemen were in league with bootleggers,

982
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: and regular citizens had their own bathroom stills. Most Philadelphians

983
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: did not want prohibition and did everything in their power

984
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: to thwart it. So yeah, look, and and this lesson,

985
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: this motif is so clear and so repeated everywhere that

986
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,879
Speaker 1: like you're just you're just holding onto power. And when

987
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: you hold onto power, even with ridiculous laws, you're gonna

988
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: have to use violence, and people are going to turn

989
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: against you because it's stupid. Yes, it's it's stupid. And

990
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: and it's like Butler is good at running an insurgency

991
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: the way our military has always run insurgencies, and if

992
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 1: you have studied the history of our military and insurgencies,

993
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 1: we almost always loose. Yeah, like we don't have a

994
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,439
Speaker 1: great batting record when it got to fighting insurgents. Yeah,

995
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: I think we come home. People think we come home

996
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: like we did this country of favor and the whole

997
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 1: country looking at us like no, no, you know. It's

998
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,800
Speaker 1: interesting because the the U. S. Mility, the modern U. S.

999
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: Military is incredible at combat training, at like training people

1000
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 1: to fight in gunfights, and all of our training is

1001
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: cribbed and descended from German military training that started out

1002
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: at the end of World War One, um and like

1003
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 1: into World War Two. Out trucks tactic is like the

1004
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: name of the kind of techniques, and the German military

1005
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: world War one and two was hands like not even brilliant,

1006
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: no fucking competition in their ability to train people to

1007
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: fight and gunfights. Yeah, historically speak heads and shoulders. The

1008
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 1: German military was above everybody and they lost both wars,

1009
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: which maybe is a lesson about the actual value in

1010
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: a broad sense of having your truth to be real

1011
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: fucking good at gunfights doesn't matter if you fail at

1012
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 1: the other ship. And that's what Butler fails at um

1013
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: is understanding the broader dimensions of the conflict he's got

1014
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: himself into, and he gets let go from his job

1015
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: running the Philadelphia Police After just two years. Most of

1016
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,319
Speaker 1: the changes he had instituted reverted back to the way

1017
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: things had been before. Philadelphia continued drinking, and eventually the

1018
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: whole country got over this absurd attempt to ban a

1019
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: widely used intoxicant. Now, during this period, a number of

1020
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: other cities did try the same military model police force

1021
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: tactics as Philadelphia, putting like military men in charge of

1022
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: their police. General Francis Green, you know in New York,

1023
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 1: Colonel James Everington in Los Angeles, Major Mattellas Funkhauser in Chicago,

1024
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: one of the best names I've ever heard. Yeah, so

1025
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 1: this is something we try. We try militarized police during

1026
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: Prohibition a lot of the country, and it doesn't work. Um. Now,

1027
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: there are aspects of police militarization that get adopted in

1028
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: this period that kind of stay. For one thing, police

1029
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: nationwide begin adopting more military style weapons during this period,

1030
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 1: picking up automatic rifles because the gangsters have Tommy guns

1031
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: and b A r s. You know. Um, that's the

1032
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: kind of ship that Bonnie and Clyde and you know

1033
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,959
Speaker 1: my cousin, pretty boy Floyd, or packing as machine guns,

1034
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: so cops get machine guns too. Uh. In general, though

1035
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: the military model of policing pursued by progressives in the

1036
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: nineteen twenties and thirties seemed to have died out with prohibition,

1037
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: the professional model espoused by Volmer was obviously superior. For

1038
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: a few decades. From the war years up until the

1039
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, the story of the US police was the

1040
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 1: story of growing professionalism and centralization. This was obviously an

1041
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: uneven an imperfect process, but most Americans probably would have

1042
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: assumed that professionalization and the professional model was pretty successful

1043
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: during this period of time. A good example would be

1044
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: law enforcement success in putting an into lynching as a

1045
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 1: widespread phenomenon. Now, as we talked about that was not

1046
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 1: did not actually happen the way that it was into.

1047
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: But you gotta think about how like white people at

1048
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 1: the time, when oh, people aren't getting lunched anymore, we

1049
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: fixed it. Yeah, you know people. Yeah, it's like disive

1050
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 1: occasion where it's like, well, crime dropped, yeah yeah, where yeah. Yeah.

1051
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: So in nineteen fifty four, the TV show Dragnet first

1052
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: hit the airwaves, and Dragnet was probably the first TV

1053
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: show about modern law enforcement that or I think it

1054
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: was actually um it was probably the first TV show

1055
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: about modern law enforcement that deliberately set out to be realistic.

1056
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: Every episode opened with the disclaimer that the cases in

1057
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: the series were all real, only the names had been

1058
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: changed to protect the innocent. Uh. The creator was a

1059
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: guy named Jack Webb, and he was also the star

1060
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: of the show. He was he was Officer Friday UM

1061
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: and he partnered with the l a p D from

1062
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: the very beginning of the series is the very first

1063
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 1: time that ever happens, and partnering with the l a

1064
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: p D brings the production of Dragnet a ton of benefits.

1065
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: Number when they were allowed to film anywhere they wanted

1066
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: to in the city, Their crew got access to police

1067
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 1: vehicles and police gear without paying for it. The department

1068
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 1: would even loan them real cops to use his extras

1069
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: on the show. All this saved the network just a fortune. Um.

1070
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: The only cost was that Dragonette scripts had to be

1071
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: approved by the l a p D before they could

1072
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: be filmed. Oh wow, whole episodes were scrapped on the

1073
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: basis that the police didn't think they portrayed policing in

1074
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: a positive enough light. So obviously Dragnet is not going

1075
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: to deal with problems in the l a p D.

1076
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: It's not going to deal with an equality, you know,

1077
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: in in in enforcement and stuff. Dragnet, you know, legitimately

1078
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: broke new ground for American television. It was the first

1079
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: show to actually depict black and Hispanic cops. But it

1080
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: also failed to mention that the l a p D

1081
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: was segregated. Um. Yeah, yeah. There were very few instances

1082
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: of cops on Dragnet actually firing their guns, but whenever

1083
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 1: they did, those cops were shown to be calm and

1084
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: emotionally stable in the moment. Nobody ever fired in panic

1085
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 1: on dragnet Um and the show helped shape a generate

1086
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: sation's attitudes towards law enforcement, portraying the ideal scientific, professionalized,

1087
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: vulmer police working almost flawlessly. Right, the police are just

1088
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: the facts, is Friday's right? Yeah, I was gonna the

1089
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: fact Dragnet is the showing like the ideal of the

1090
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: professionalized police. That's what's depicted in dragnet Um And the

1091
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 1: l a p D has a vested interest in wanting

1092
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: to make sure that gets depicted. Obviously, So Dragnet was

1093
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: so good for the l a p d s image

1094
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: and reputation that in nineteen fifty five, the commissioner of

1095
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 1: the California Highway Patrol demanded his Public Affairs division get

1096
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 1: us a show like Dragnet. Highway Patrol had its first

1097
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: season later that year. Yeah, so the Highway Patrol show

1098
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: launches next. And of course, the FBI gets their own

1099
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: version of this treatment in nineteen sixty five with the

1100
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: creatively named TV series The FBI. All of these shows

1101
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: push an idealized image of what law enforcement was and

1102
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: claimed that their fiction was very close to fact. Now

1103
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 1: to the extent that people bought into this myth. It

1104
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: started to puncture in nineteen sixty four as the Civil

1105
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 1: Rights movement took to the streets and US police responded

1106
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: by turning fire hoses and dogs on demonstrators. Many of

1107
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: the yeah, yeah, it's on TV. That shuts it down.

1108
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:16,919
Speaker 1: Oh we didn't see this part of it on TV.

1109
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: Um this These people don't seem to be interested in

1110
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: the facts. They seem to be interested in sicking dogs

1111
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: on folks. Yes, yeah, that that didn't make it into

1112
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 1: dragnet so and most of the protests. Many of the

1113
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 1: protests and what we're called riots during this period were

1114
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: sparked one way or another by police brutality. The police

1115
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: tear gassed masses of young activists at the nineteen six

1116
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: Chicago DNC and from sixty seven to sixty eight there

1117
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: were two hundred and ninety two mass demonstrations on a

1118
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty three college campuses, most were in opposition

1119
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 1: to the Vietnam War. By the end of nineteen sixty eight,

1120
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: vivid images of battered civil rights protesters, clouds of gas,

1121
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: and the corpses of those students at Kent State had

1122
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: very significantly reduced public up union of law enforcement. Probably

1123
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: it's lowest EBB up till the present moment. Like my

1124
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: my grandpa was a lifetime military man, fought in World

1125
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 1: War two in Korea, was like managing a hospital on Okinawa,

1126
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: on a military base in Japan when Kent State happens

1127
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: and was like very pro the Vietnam War, and he

1128
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: was fucking furious about Kent State because like like like

1129
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 1: that was the thing that Kent State lost. Even like

1130
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 1: a lot of like pretty conservative milit because they were like,

1131
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: you know that, that's not what the militaries for. We're

1132
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: not supposed to shoot kids with signs on college campuses. Um. Like,

1133
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: people get real pissed at law enforcement in this period

1134
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: of time. Uh. And in nineteen sixty eight, in order

1135
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: to address the collapsing faith in law enforcement nationwide, the

1136
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 1: US Congress passes the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act, which,

1137
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 1: among other things, pumped a shipload of federal dollars into

1138
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 1: what Dr Gary Potter, who you'll remember from other episodes,

1139
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: we've talked about calls rather cosmetic police community relations programs,

1140
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 1: which were mostly media focused attempts to improve the police image.

1141
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 1: So this is when you start getting like really advanced

1142
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 1: public affairs departments and police departments hiring pr agencies to

1143
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 1: help them reform their image. And a lot of the

1144
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: effort in reforming police images was still landed on Hollywood.

1145
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 1: And of course in this period, Dragnet gets brought back

1146
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: for another three seasons, running from nineteen sixty seven to

1147
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy. And the years that Dragnet comes back is

1148
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 1: not There's no coincidence there, right, Yeah, So propaganda did

1149
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 1: not protect the police from the economic downturns of the

1150
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, and cities nationwide started making massive cuts to

1151
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: police and other municipal workers just because the economy fell apart.

1152
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: And you know, part of this isn't a show about

1153
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 1: the economy, but a big part of what happens is

1154
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 1: like the US had started exporting a lot of manufacturing jobs,

1155
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 1: had been like this is like the first This is

1156
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 1: when we start to see the hollowing out of this

1157
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: middle class and of like these good union jobs that

1158
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: had persisted for decades since the end of the war

1159
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 1: and the seventy is this all falls to ship. Um,

1160
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 1: you start getting eaten alive economically by like Japan and

1161
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 1: other countries, and it's it's you know, this is when

1162
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: like services start to be cut nationwide, and one of

1163
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 1: the services that gets cut is policing. Um out of

1164
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 1: necessity of services. Yeah you know what services won't be cut?

1165
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 1: Yeah that was good. You know, who doesn't hollow out

1166
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: the American middle class? Actually who hollows out there will? Yeah? Yeah,

1167
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: there we go, brod services, We're back, so um police

1168
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 1: departments in this period, you know, budgets get cut, municipal

1169
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 1: workers get cut, and a lot of the blame, like

1170
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:55,360
Speaker 1: as these cities who in a lot of cases like

1171
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: their budgets got fucked not just because the economy was

1172
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: bad because of like massive corruption, but they blame it

1173
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: on union workers. And of course police are some of

1174
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 1: the union workers in this period, so they get some

1175
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 1: big gass cuts and out of necessity because their budgets

1176
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: are being trimmed. UM police departments nationwide embark on a

1177
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 1: process called tailorization, which is tailorization had doesn't just happen

1178
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: to the police. It's like a scientific optimization of of

1179
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: of of of an organization, right, it's attempting to cut

1180
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 1: manpower and reduce costs without cutting efficiency. UM officers started

1181
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: going from two cop to one cop per patrol car

1182
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 1: nine on one lines, and computers became more widespread and

1183
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: put control of the police UH is centralized more so

1184
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: police administrators gain more power. Civilian employees are also brought

1185
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: in to do jobs that had been done by police

1186
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 1: employees in order to reduce the number of highly paid

1187
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: union workers. So this is tailorization. And while all this

1188
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,919
Speaker 1: is happening inside the US, the Cold War is also

1189
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 1: happening outside of the US, so inside the country professionalism

1190
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: is kind of like the professional model of police are

1191
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 1: still dominant, and they're also like that becomes even more

1192
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 1: powerful an ideas as the number of police are cut

1193
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 1: and they have to get more efficient to try to

1194
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 1: do the same work. So that's what's happening in the US.

1195
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 1: Outside the US, though, international policing is having something very

1196
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: different happened to it. And this is as a result

1197
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 1: of the Cold War. So as the Cold War really

1198
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 1: starts to kick off, our government finds itself trying to

1199
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 1: prop up friendly states all around the world, you know,

1200
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 1: anti communist states, particularly in Latin America and Southeast Asia,

1201
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 1: and we go, Yeah, this proved problematic because a lot

1202
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 1: of these regimes were corrupt in brutal, and people didn't

1203
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 1: really like living underneath them. And as a rule, our

1204
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 1: government responded to that by pouring money into training foreign

1205
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 1: police to murder dissidents, because that works a lot better

1206
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 1: than training the army in a lot of cases. Um. So,

1207
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 1: from nineteen sixty two to nineteen seventy four, the US

1208
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,920
Speaker 1: government operated the Office of Public Safety, an agency that

1209
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: worked closely with the CIA to train police and nations

1210
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 1: racked by conflict due to the Cold war. These nations

1211
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: included South Vietnam, Iran, Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil, and Colombia. Tens

1212
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: of thousands of people were tortured or killed by various

1213
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: police departments, who received over two million dollars in US

1214
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 1: aid for firearm and equipment. And I'm gonna quote now

1215
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 1: from an article in the Age before you get there.

1216
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: There's there's one that's off the papers, which I know

1217
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 1: you haven't done an episode on, but like there's there's

1218
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: the Nicaragua one that both they wasn't supposed to be

1219
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 1: spending money on, which is the B line. Y'all. Look, look,

1220
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: I'm excited, but I don't want to remove I don't

1221
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 1: want to ruin the reveal. But what he taught about

1222
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: right now leads directly to the crack attack and the

1223
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: war on drugs. But yeah, and I hope we're gonna

1224
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: get to that. No, we're not not nearly, because I

1225
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: I I don't want to half asked that one, like,

1226
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 1: because there's there's so much. Yeah, well we will, we

1227
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 1: will do. We will get into that, we'll dip in

1228
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: because because it's all tied in, it's the beginning of it.

1229
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: Even this like pr stuff I grew up with the

1230
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:59,560
Speaker 1: DARE program, you know, the drug abuse what a what

1231
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: A car pulled up with the sirens at my elementary

1232
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 1: school to try to convince me that this cop is cool.

1233
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 1: You don't say it, yeah, but yeah. Anyway, we were

1234
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 1: paying for wars and we got paid in crack. Yeah yeah.

1235
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 1: So um yeah. The CIA and you know, the US

1236
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 1: government starts training cops and all of these countries to

1237
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 1: suppress uh, you know, primarily left wing like political movements.

1238
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote now from an article in the

1239
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: Asia Pacific Journal by scholar Jeremy Kazmarov, who's like one

1240
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 1: of the top like people studying this particular phenomenon. Quote.

1241
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 1: During the mid nineteen sixties, the director of United States

1242
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 1: Agency of International Development USA David Bell, commented in congressional

1243
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 1: testimony that the police are the most sensitive point of

1244
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 1: contact between the government and people close to the focal

1245
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 1: points of unrest, and more acceptable than the army as

1246
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 1: keepers of order over long periods of time. The police

1247
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,080
Speaker 1: are frequently better trained and equipped than the military to

1248
01:07:56,200 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 1: deal with minor forms of violence, conspiracy, and subversion. Robert W.

1249
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 1: U Comber, who served as the National Security Council Advisor

1250
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 1: to President John F. Kennedy further stress that the police

1251
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,800
Speaker 1: were more valuable than special forces and our global counter

1252
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 1: insurgency efforts, and particularly useful in fighting urban insurrections. We

1253
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: get more from the police in terms of preventative medicine

1254
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 1: than from any single U S program, he said. They

1255
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,799
Speaker 1: are cost effective while not going for fancy military hardware.

1256
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 1: They provide the first line of defense against demonstrations, riots,

1257
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 1: and local insurrections. Only when the situation gets out of hand,

1258
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: as in South Vietnam, does the military have to be

1259
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,040
Speaker 1: called in. So again, that's that's the police. The police

1260
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 1: are especially as Vietnam goes badly in other countries, we

1261
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:42,120
Speaker 1: increasingly see if you if you train the police to

1262
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:45,719
Speaker 1: stop this ship before there's a strong left wing movement,

1263
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 1: you don't have a Vietnam which you then lose. Right,

1264
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: That's that's what yeah, So that's internationally what the US

1265
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 1: is doing to other police agencies, as our police agencies,

1266
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 1: you know, pull back from the militarization of the twenties

1267
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 1: and thirties and towards professionalism. We we push militarization in

1268
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,120
Speaker 1: a lot of ways outside of the United States, some

1269
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:09,639
Speaker 1: Americans were involved in training more than a million foreign

1270
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,639
Speaker 1: police officers during this time. Now, many of those cops

1271
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,400
Speaker 1: did fail in their duties, which is part of why

1272
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 1: South Vietnam is no longer a country and why Iran

1273
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:20,440
Speaker 1: does not have a shot anymore. Um, but the suppression

1274
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 1: tactics taught by US police educators were successful in many

1275
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 1: other nations. Like, it does not always fail. We are

1276
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,200
Speaker 1: not always bad at training these people to brutally stop

1277
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 1: left wing uprising. It works a lot of the time.

1278
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: And when the office is they're like, oh wait, real quick,

1279
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 1: this is like the perfect time to like take like

1280
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: a take a take a slice from like the hood

1281
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 1: politics way a way of thinking things, thinking of things

1282
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 1: because sometimes like using these terms can they're so lofty

1283
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,759
Speaker 1: and big if you don't know history or military politics,

1284
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:54,560
Speaker 1: like it's hard to understand them. It's this moment in

1285
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 1: history is so like it's so simple because it's just

1286
01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 1: eighth grade. So like you, you're you and this you

1287
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:07,639
Speaker 1: and this other boy or girl are beefing, but y'all

1288
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:11,759
Speaker 1: never actually fight. You just keep bringing other kids around

1289
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: the fight. So by and I'm proving my side of

1290
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 1: the playground is better because this kid from who I

1291
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 1: propped up and trained and gave a rock through at

1292
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: another kid who's got a rock that's on your side

1293
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: of the playground. And that's proven that I'm hard. But

1294
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 1: it's really they fighting a fight that me and you

1295
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 1: are supposed to fight. But we got sense enough to

1296
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 1: know we've probably been I fight this fight, so I'm

1297
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 1: gonna let you fight it. Really, that's the Cold War

1298
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: is you're you're going, I'm gonna go get my little

1299
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 1: homeboy to funk up yo, little homeboy. That's that's that's

1300
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 1: the Cold War. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, um so yeah,

1301
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 1: uh so yeah, we we we have we we spend

1302
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 1: fucking a decade or more training all these foreign police

1303
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 1: agencies to act as yeah, counter insurgery. Yeah, our little

1304
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 1: homeboys to act as counterinsurgency forces. Uh And when the

1305
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: Office for Public Safety closes in nineteen seventy four, these

1306
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:14,639
Speaker 1: police trainers needed still needed work. Like these guys who'd

1307
01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 1: spent more than a decade training foreign cops, and they

1308
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 1: find more work. And it's inside of the United States.

1309
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 1: It's this time alex fatality rights in the end of

1310
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:26,599
Speaker 1: policing quote. Many of the trainers moved in large numbers

1311
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 1: into law enforcement, including the Drug Enforcement Agency FBI and

1312
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:32,840
Speaker 1: numerous local and state police forces, bringing with them a

1313
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 1: more militarized vision of policing steeped in Cold War imperatives

1314
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: of suppressing social movements through counter intelligence, militarized riot suppression techniques,

1315
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 1: and heavy handed crime control. Now in the middle of

1316
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: this period, like right before that office closes, really like

1317
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one, so a couple of years before,

1318
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:53,560
Speaker 1: we stopped training the police, you know, foreign police in

1319
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:56,639
Speaker 1: this kind of organized way. Uh, not that we stop entirely,

1320
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 1: but like the way we had been, you know, we're

1321
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 1: even less of it. A night teen seventy one, Richard

1322
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 1: Millhouse Nixon declared drug abuse public Enemy number one. Soon

1323
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:08,599
Speaker 1: after that declaration, US press began to discuss a new

1324
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 1: war on drugs. Now, this war was launched just as

1325
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:15,640
Speaker 1: the US war in Vietnam started to finally end, and spoilers,

1326
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:19,760
Speaker 1: it wasn't any more successful. Nixon's goal, though, had never

1327
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 1: actually been to stop drug use. He started the war

1328
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:24,680
Speaker 1: on drugs because he wanted to win the support of

1329
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 1: southern white voters who had gone Democratic for generations. These

1330
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 1: people were furious about segregation, and they were pushing back

1331
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 1: at the success of desegregation. Um, they considered civil rights

1332
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:38,560
Speaker 1: marchers to have been just looters and rioters. But the

1333
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 1: week LBJ administration had failed to murder these people. Professor

1334
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:46,599
Speaker 1: in legal scholar Michelle Alexander explains quote posters and political

1335
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:49,599
Speaker 1: strategists that found that thinly veiled promises to get tough

1336
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 1: on them, a group suddenly not so defined by race,

1337
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 1: was enormously successful in persuading poor and working class whites

1338
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 1: did effect from the Democratic New Deal coalition and joined

1339
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:02,680
Speaker 1: the Republican Party in droves. Ultimately, this backlash against the

1340
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 1: civil rights movement was occurring at precisely the same moment

1341
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 1: that there was economic collapse in communities of color, inner

1342
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 1: city communities across America. And of course, again we're talking

1343
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:12,920
Speaker 1: about the seventies. We're going at a period where the

1344
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:17,560
Speaker 1: economy contracts massively and it hits black inner city communities

1345
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 1: worse than anyone else. Um. And what is the number

1346
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 1: one predictor of crime, particularly property crime. It's poverty. So yeah,

1347
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:30,720
Speaker 1: and and we're there's even like a a tie to

1348
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:37,600
Speaker 1: that moment now of how changing the language from we

1349
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:43,760
Speaker 1: just hate black people too. We're having a war on drugs. Um,

1350
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 1: we're the fact that we call weed marijuana. It's just

1351
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:51,679
Speaker 1: it's just the Spanish word for cannabis. But that's marketing

1352
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 1: because you because if we already hate Mexicans as a

1353
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 1: nation and you use this drug and you just refer

1354
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:02,839
Speaker 1: to it by Spanish name, now it seems more evil.

1355
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 1: It was just it was a racist marketing that we

1356
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 1: call cannabis marijuana. Just and that's Nixon. I just want

1357
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 1: John note Nixon did debt anyway. Yeah, yeah, um so yeah.

1358
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 1: The backlash against the success of the civil rights movement

1359
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 1: reaches its height kind of just as unemployment in the

1360
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:25,760
Speaker 1: inner city peaks and the consequences of the industrialization and

1361
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 1: globalization hit the US economy, so crime sores and suddenly

1362
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:32,679
Speaker 1: a shipload of people find themselves impoverished and desperate without options,

1363
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:35,639
Speaker 1: and the war on drugs gives the government a way

1364
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 1: to take huge numbers of these people, primarily these black

1365
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 1: and brown people, off the street and satisfy white voters

1366
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:44,760
Speaker 1: that they're doing something about crime. Now, drug use was

1367
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 1: actually falling when Nixon made his announcement, and it had

1368
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 1: been falling for years. Drug abuse but blaming drugs rather

1369
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:54,360
Speaker 1: than unregulated capitalism, hollowing out the American middle class, and

1370
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:56,920
Speaker 1: exchange for corporate profits worked a lot better from a

1371
01:14:56,960 --> 01:15:02,720
Speaker 1: messaging standpoint for the Republican president in nineteen yeah, exactly.

1372
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 1: In nineteen eight two, Ronald Reagan doubled down declaring an

1373
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: official war on drugs, even though only three percent of

1374
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,160
Speaker 1: Americans at the time considered drug abuse to be the

1375
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 1: nation's most pressing issue. Since the existing tailorized US police

1376
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:18,240
Speaker 1: were ill equipped to fight a war, President Reagan had

1377
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:20,599
Speaker 1: to start pouring tens of millions of dollars of federal

1378
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:24,479
Speaker 1: funds into turning law enforcement into an army. Now, the

1379
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 1: broad trend, so this occurs. Reagan starts pumping all this

1380
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 1: money in as these these guys who had been these

1381
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:32,640
Speaker 1: US guys who have been training foreign military forces over

1382
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,639
Speaker 1: seas start coming back to the country and training cops.

1383
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:37,559
Speaker 1: So there's a number of things kind of happening at

1384
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 1: the same time that lead to and are are a

1385
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 1: part of police militarization. Um. Now, the broad trend that

1386
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:47,479
Speaker 1: occurs throughout the nineteen seventies and eighties as a result

1387
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 1: of all this is that US police nationwide turn away

1388
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 1: from the professional model and towards a military model, not

1389
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:57,640
Speaker 1: a different in a military model pretty similar to the

1390
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:01,720
Speaker 1: one that General Butler proposed to defeat Bootleg in Philadelphia. UM.

1391
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 1: This process was not smooth or uniform, and it was

1392
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 1: not all due to the War on drugs. The Watts

1393
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:11,719
Speaker 1: Rebellion of nineteen sixty five was a major inciting incident

1394
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:14,320
Speaker 1: for the militarization of US police. And the short story,

1395
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 1: the almost criminally short story of the Watts Rebellion is this,

1396
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,200
Speaker 1: a black motorist was was pulled over, um and like

1397
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 1: there was a confrontation began with the police. Conmmunity members

1398
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:27,879
Speaker 1: confronted the cops as like this guy was getting arrested,

1399
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:31,600
Speaker 1: and a fight ensued. Um one of the cops I

1400
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 1: injured a pregnant woman, or at least people in the

1401
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:37,240
Speaker 1: crowd believed that a cop had injured a pregnant woman

1402
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:40,880
Speaker 1: and kind of rage over this whole incident boils over

1403
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 1: and like acts as a match stick. So like obviously

1404
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 1: the l A p d had been hideously racist for

1405
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:47,360
Speaker 1: a long time. One of the things that happens when

1406
01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:49,840
Speaker 1: Jim crow Win's is that the police chief of l

1407
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:53,720
Speaker 1: A starts deliberately courting Southern police officers who are like,

1408
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 1: this is history. Yeah, if you're if you're pissed about

1409
01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 1: Jim Crow ending, come to Los Angeles, will let you

1410
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 1: beat the ship out of black people making this stuff up.

1411
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:04,560
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I thought we brought this up before and

1412
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 1: one of the older episodes we didn't get into it,

1413
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:09,640
Speaker 1: or we didn't get into it though. Yeah, did I

1414
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:11,880
Speaker 1: tell you all my watch riot story? No? No, no,

1415
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 1: please do. This is a good time for it. Yeah. Yeah,

1416
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 1: it's a good time for it. So it was during

1417
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:20,400
Speaker 1: the La Riots. Is how my story starts. Um, my grandmother,

1418
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 1: you know l A Rites was you know Florence and Normandy. Right.

1419
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 1: Grandmother lived off Florence Engage, so it's just a few

1420
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:32,800
Speaker 1: more blocks to the east. Um, my father calls my

1421
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 1: grandmother and she said, and he says, like, hey, why

1422
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:37,320
Speaker 1: don't you come stay with us? We were living like

1423
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:41,000
Speaker 1: maybe a fifteen minutes east, right, So he says, why

1424
01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 1: don't you come stay with us? You're out of like

1425
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:47,840
Speaker 1: the hotspot of South Central. And my grandmother says, if

1426
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 1: I'm lying, I'm flying. She says, baby, unless there's tanks

1427
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:54,519
Speaker 1: coming down this street. I ain't going nowhere this house

1428
01:17:55,160 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 1: and I and I went my Grandma's a gangster. That's

1429
01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 1: the hardest thing I ever heard in my life. Right,

1430
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 1: and then but my parents looked at each other and

1431
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 1: I was like, tanks, she's hard they go. She lived

1432
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 1: in the Watts Riots, and like history came alive. There's like, yo,

1433
01:18:12,280 --> 01:18:14,519
Speaker 1: she she lived through the Wats Riots. That's what she's

1434
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:18,559
Speaker 1: referring to. Tanks came down our streets. I was like, oh,

1435
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 1: because I thought the La Riots was the end of

1436
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:23,840
Speaker 1: the world, you know what I'm saying, Like, you know,

1437
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:25,640
Speaker 1: I'm a preteen during its time, so I was like,

1438
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:28,519
Speaker 1: this is the end of the world. Grandma was like, no, baby,

1439
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 1: tanks come down these streets anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And that's

1440
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: like the Watts Riot is is fucking wild. Um So,

1441
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 1: like there's a ton of anger, uh and like black

1442
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 1: and Hispanic communities towards the l A p D. An

1443
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,320
Speaker 1: other thing that's happening is like the lap is also separately,

1444
01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:48,439
Speaker 1: but but at the same time horrifically suppressing the the

1445
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:51,800
Speaker 1: Chicano Liberation movement, which is like the like Mexicans and

1446
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 1: Latinos in l a UM and like at one point

1447
01:18:54,479 --> 01:18:56,599
Speaker 1: murders a journalist who's like drinking at a bar by

1448
01:18:56,640 --> 01:18:58,000
Speaker 1: shooting him in the back of the head with a

1449
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:01,200
Speaker 1: tear gas grenade. Hunter Thompson actually one of his best

1450
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 1: pieces of investigative journalism about all of that, and in fact,

1451
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 1: Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Yeah, oh yeah, shit, yeah,

1452
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 1: happened in my neighborhood. I live in Boile Heights, like ship,

1453
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:15,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that happened neighborhood. Yeah yeah, Ruben Salazar and

1454
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:17,439
Speaker 1: like so if you like Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas,

1455
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:19,280
Speaker 1: like the funny, silly Hunter Thompson movie, we all know

1456
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:21,719
Speaker 1: the actual genesis of that. The real thing that happened

1457
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:23,960
Speaker 1: that he was actually writing about was one of the

1458
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 1: leaders at the Chicano Liberation movement was this guy Oscar

1459
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 1: at Costa, who was Hunter's lawyer, and he like the

1460
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:34,400
Speaker 1: reason that he and Hunter Thompson drove to Las Vegas

1461
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 1: is that they needed to have a conversation about what

1462
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:39,719
Speaker 1: the l a p d Was doing to murder Hispanic

1463
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:43,679
Speaker 1: activists in Los Angeles. And the only place that wouldn't

1464
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:47,640
Speaker 1: be bugged would be a fucking a convertible car with

1465
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:50,280
Speaker 1: the top down driving through the desert in New Mexico

1466
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 1: or not New Mexico, and uh yeah, you know, you

1467
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,439
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about. Like that's that's what fear

1468
01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:57,080
Speaker 1: and loathing is. Is like this is all tied up

1469
01:19:57,120 --> 01:19:59,880
Speaker 1: in this so like all of this ship fucking explodes

1470
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:04,640
Speaker 1: um into into anger at the or like into the

1471
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 1: Watts riots in in nineteen sixty five. And like the

1472
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 1: stuff that happened with Ruben Salazar and stuff was like

1473
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:11,479
Speaker 1: five years after this, but like all of these this

1474
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 1: like racism and stuff is still happening. So like the

1475
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:18,000
Speaker 1: this fight winds up just kind of for whatever reason,

1476
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:20,040
Speaker 1: being the thing that ignites all of the anger in

1477
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:22,880
Speaker 1: in this part of Los Angeles, and it's the Watts

1478
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 1: riots is what most history text will call it. The

1479
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:27,720
Speaker 1: Uprising is another thing you'll hear that I think is

1480
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:31,160
Speaker 1: probably more accurate. And the uprising included a shipload of

1481
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 1: angry black folks breaking into gun stores, um, getting guns

1482
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:37,560
Speaker 1: and then sniping at l A p D officers. This

1483
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:40,519
Speaker 1: is a thing that happens, and it the cops flip

1484
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 1: the funk out about it. Um, the police chief gets

1485
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 1: on television and compares what's happening and Watts to what

1486
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 1: the insurgency in Vietnam. He compares the rioters to the

1487
01:20:49,439 --> 01:20:52,680
Speaker 1: Viet Cong, and he states that a paramilitary response is

1488
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:55,880
Speaker 1: the only thing possible. The Governor Pat Brown announces that

1489
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 1: the l a p d was quote dealing with guerillas

1490
01:20:58,320 --> 01:21:01,560
Speaker 1: fighting with gangsters. Um, the National Guard are called in

1491
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:05,879
Speaker 1: and the uprising was brutally suppressed. And you know, generally

1492
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 1: when you hear because this is a key movement in

1493
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:10,559
Speaker 1: the militarization of police, and generally when it's talked about,

1494
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:13,439
Speaker 1: you will hear about like the person writing about it

1495
01:21:13,479 --> 01:21:16,720
Speaker 1: will pivot from like rioters looting guns and sniping at

1496
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:19,679
Speaker 1: the l a p d h to like the National

1497
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:21,080
Speaker 1: Guard coming in to kind of make the case that

1498
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:24,160
Speaker 1: the l a p d was just overwhelmed by armed citizens.

1499
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:28,760
Speaker 1: This is not what happened. Um. Only three sworn personnel

1500
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:31,720
Speaker 1: were killed during the Watts riots. One was an l

1501
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:34,720
Speaker 1: A firefighter who died in a structure fire, one was

1502
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:38,759
Speaker 1: that Los Angeles Sheriff's deputy who was shot by another

1503
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:42,559
Speaker 1: deputy when that deputy accidentally fired his shotgun and during

1504
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 1: a clash with rioters. And another was another Los Angeles

1505
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 1: police officer who was shot by another one of his

1506
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:52,759
Speaker 1: fellow cops accidentally during a fight with rioters. No Los

1507
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:57,959
Speaker 1: Angeles police were killed by by rioters with guns. Um Meanwhile,

1508
01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:00,920
Speaker 1: the l a p D killed twenty three, mostly black

1509
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:04,800
Speaker 1: people during the Watts Riots. The National Guard killed seven. Um.

1510
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 1: So again, the image of the Watts Riots is that

1511
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:09,960
Speaker 1: like these writers, which is so heavily armed that like

1512
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:13,599
Speaker 1: it inspired the militarization of police because cops needed more

1513
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:16,639
Speaker 1: weapons and tactical teams in order to deal with such threats.

1514
01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:20,560
Speaker 1: The reality is that like the fucking no no, no

1515
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:24,479
Speaker 1: no cops even got killed by by rioters. Like it's

1516
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:26,800
Speaker 1: it's definitely accurate to say that like the l A

1517
01:22:26,960 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 1: Police had been like more uh more militant, I think

1518
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 1: than other police departments, but not like, not like a

1519
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:38,719
Speaker 1: tactical way, just in a way of seeing themselves as fighting.

1520
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 1: They saw themselves as fighting and is fighting a war

1521
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:43,519
Speaker 1: against the non white population of the city that was

1522
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 1: the l A p D in this period. Yeah, there

1523
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:50,240
Speaker 1: there's this idea of like returning to the America they remember,

1524
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:55,679
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and the Watts riots kind of scare cops

1525
01:22:55,720 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 1: around the country into all adopting a lot more paramility

1526
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:02,760
Speaker 1: Harry tactics in order to defend themselves from the people

1527
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 1: they're supposed to be protecting. Now, the Watts riots are

1528
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:07,840
Speaker 1: like one of the one of two things that will

1529
01:23:07,880 --> 01:23:10,880
Speaker 1: be generally cited as the justification behind the creation of

1530
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:13,960
Speaker 1: the very first SWAT teams, which you know means special

1531
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:17,519
Speaker 1: weapons and tactics. Another major inciting incident for the creation

1532
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:19,720
Speaker 1: of the SWAT teams was the nineteen sixty six U T.

1533
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 1: Austin clock tower sniper Charles Whitman, who killed sixteen people um.

1534
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,840
Speaker 1: The basic idea was that police were easily overwhelmed by

1535
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:30,720
Speaker 1: snipers and other dangerous criminals. Like cops just couldn't handle

1536
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:34,320
Speaker 1: these threats, and so specialized warrior cops were necessary to

1537
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:37,640
Speaker 1: handle these incidents. So SWAT teams took off as a

1538
01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 1: concept in the late nineteen sixties, and before long every

1539
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:42,840
Speaker 1: department in America was fighting to get a SWAT team

1540
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,559
Speaker 1: of their own, whether or not they needed one. Today,

1541
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 1: the vast majority of police agencies serving populations of fifty

1542
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:51,679
Speaker 1: thousand or more in the United States have some form

1543
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:55,200
Speaker 1: of SWAT team. Nationwide, SWAT teams are deployed tens of

1544
01:23:55,360 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 1: thousands of times per year and since these teams were

1545
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:02,320
Speaker 1: formed and exist to handle ex extraordinary situations of exceptional danger,

1546
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 1: you might picture these tens of thousands of SWAT raids

1547
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 1: as like pulse pounding gunfights against really dangerous people. And

1548
01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:13,519
Speaker 1: if that, yeah, if if that's the picture in your head,

1549
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:17,559
Speaker 1: you are wrong. Most states very deliberately do not provide

1550
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:20,400
Speaker 1: US with statistics for their SWAT deployments. Maryland is one

1551
01:24:20,439 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 1: of two that does, and in Maryland, of SWAT raids

1552
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 1: are just for serving search warrants. Half of those warrants

1553
01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:30,519
Speaker 1: are for non violent drug crimes, and one third of

1554
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:33,640
Speaker 1: those raids result in no arrests, So a third of

1555
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:36,439
Speaker 1: the time when SWAT teams go out, they don't even

1556
01:24:36,479 --> 01:24:39,639
Speaker 1: get to arrest anybody. Now, almost all of the SWAT

1557
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:42,840
Speaker 1: raids in Maryland at least are for drug crimes. Utah

1558
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:45,120
Speaker 1: is the only other state that requires police agencies to

1559
01:24:45,160 --> 01:24:47,759
Speaker 1: report on SWAT deployment, and the first batch of numbers

1560
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:49,960
Speaker 1: that they released in two thousand thirteen showed that eighty

1561
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:52,920
Speaker 1: three percent of their SWAT deployments were serving search warrants

1562
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:56,040
Speaker 1: for drug crimes. Less than five percent of deployments were

1563
01:24:56,080 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 1: too violent crimes. In process A K a the sort

1564
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:01,680
Speaker 1: of thing swat teams were formed to deal with. Just

1565
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:05,559
Speaker 1: three of the states reported five and fifty nine raids.

1566
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:10,479
Speaker 1: Half a percent turned up illegal firearms. Now half I

1567
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:13,880
Speaker 1: bring all this half a percent. Yeah, I bring all

1568
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:15,640
Speaker 1: this up because when I talk about the possibility of

1569
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:17,640
Speaker 1: police abolition with people, one of the first things they

1570
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:19,680
Speaker 1: will generally bring up is, like, who will protect us

1571
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:21,800
Speaker 1: from all of like the violent madmen. They're pictually like

1572
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:24,599
Speaker 1: cartel guys and stuff gangsters. And of course those people

1573
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:27,040
Speaker 1: do exist. There's very dangerous criminals in this country who

1574
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:29,120
Speaker 1: are heavily armed. That that's that's that is a thing

1575
01:25:29,240 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 1: that exists, but it is not the scale of problem

1576
01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:35,160
Speaker 1: that you think it is. Um and like it's also

1577
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 1: people will talk about, like, who's protect us from mass shooters?

1578
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:41,040
Speaker 1: And I would ask, can anyone listening to this podcast

1579
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:43,240
Speaker 1: name a mass shooter who's been stopped by a squat team.

1580
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:48,559
Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess not that it hasn't happened. If you did,

1581
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:50,840
Speaker 1: you can find a couple of cases where swat teams

1582
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:53,120
Speaker 1: stopped a shooting in progress that can be defined as

1583
01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:55,519
Speaker 1: a mass shooting. But you have to really rack your

1584
01:25:55,560 --> 01:25:57,799
Speaker 1: brain to think of a situation where it did happen,

1585
01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:00,640
Speaker 1: or to think of a situation where the cops successfully

1586
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:03,439
Speaker 1: stopped a mass shooting, as opposed to like what happened

1587
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:05,479
Speaker 1: during the Parkland shooting where the officer I think drove

1588
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:08,439
Speaker 1: his car into a ditch. Like yeah, like they're not

1589
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:10,439
Speaker 1: good at this, or you can't think about the Virginia

1590
01:26:10,479 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 1: Tech shooting. We're swat teams were posted up outside the buildings,

1591
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:16,160
Speaker 1: but we're scared to enter while the shooter was killing people, um,

1592
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:19,559
Speaker 1: get it? Or or even saying this if like big

1593
01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:23,120
Speaker 1: drug cartels, these drug bosses are like such a problem,

1594
01:26:23,479 --> 01:26:25,880
Speaker 1: I would ask that person, Hey, do you know any

1595
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:29,519
Speaker 1: do you know any drug drug cartel bosses? Okay, you

1596
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:31,639
Speaker 1: never met one? All right? Word, do you know anybody

1597
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:35,240
Speaker 1: that's like stolen some soda out of a out of

1598
01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:37,639
Speaker 1: a liquor store. Yeah, we know a lot of those.

1599
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:41,840
Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is maybe you you're saying this

1600
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 1: is a big problem, but you don't know nobody that

1601
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:46,439
Speaker 1: had done that, But we ought installed something out of

1602
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:48,880
Speaker 1: a out of a liquor store, So maybe there's more

1603
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 1: problems there, and maybe you don't need to be specially

1604
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 1: trained for that. Yeah, maybe we can solve people jack

1605
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:58,360
Speaker 1: and shipped from liquor stores to the extent that that's

1606
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 1: a problem without Yes, machine guns, maybe snipers are necessary

1607
01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 1: for this. Yeah. I walked into the room. I walked

1608
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:11,320
Speaker 1: into the room. Uh, and my daughter was with a

1609
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:15,160
Speaker 1: hammer and a shoe, and I was like, the hell

1610
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:18,680
Speaker 1: are you doing. She's standing on one side of the room.

1611
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 1: The other side of the room was a daddy long

1612
01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:27,600
Speaker 1: leg just a spider. And I'm like, what you got

1613
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:31,839
Speaker 1: a hammer for? And she's like, I gotta kill this spider.

1614
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:41,320
Speaker 1: M hmm. And I have a deep distrust for anything

1615
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 1: with eight legs or six legs. I get it. But

1616
01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:53,160
Speaker 1: a hammer, baby, Harry yesterday, the swiffer is fine. Don't

1617
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:57,360
Speaker 1: so when you put a hole on this wall, I mean,

1618
01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:00,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest with you, prob I have my

1619
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 1: Air fifteen right here next to the table in case

1620
01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:04,680
Speaker 1: I see a spider, which you know there's a lot

1621
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:08,680
Speaker 1: of Yeah, that's an issue. Yeah, yeah, that's what That's

1622
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:11,439
Speaker 1: what the police say. Um that that is also what

1623
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:15,320
Speaker 1: my neighbors say. You know what is Yeah, yeah, what

1624
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:18,360
Speaker 1: the police say is accurate. That's exactly what you mean.

1625
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:22,360
Speaker 1: Find me to show you the spider bite that I

1626
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:28,880
Speaker 1: got that sent me to the hospital. Next the hammer day. Okay,

1627
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:32,080
Speaker 1: that's different. Let's talk about speaking of hammers, because I

1628
01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:34,120
Speaker 1: actually have a number of hammer analogies coming up here.

1629
01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:38,000
Speaker 1: So um yeah yeah. So again, the point of all

1630
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:40,439
Speaker 1: these statistics, to the extent that we have them, is

1631
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:43,640
Speaker 1: that it really looks like swat teams are actually kind

1632
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:45,519
Speaker 1: of ship at fighting, the one kind of crime that

1633
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:48,280
Speaker 1: expired their existence in the first place. Because again, you

1634
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:50,360
Speaker 1: actually have an easier time finding cases of people with

1635
01:28:50,439 --> 01:28:54,599
Speaker 1: concealed handguns stopping shootings than you will swat team stopping

1636
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:57,479
Speaker 1: shootings like mass shootings in progress, like our traditional like,

1637
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:00,519
Speaker 1: and that doesn't happen often either, Like you Usually, mass

1638
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:02,160
Speaker 1: shooters get to do whatever they're gonna do and then

1639
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 1: shoot themselves or whatever turn themselves in like they generally

1640
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:08,479
Speaker 1: don't get stopped. Um, but you you will. You'll have

1641
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:11,400
Speaker 1: trouble finding swat teams taking out these guys because it's

1642
01:29:11,479 --> 01:29:14,559
Speaker 1: usually over it before they can scramble um now. Well,

1643
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:16,840
Speaker 1: which is not to say that there's no place for them,

1644
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:19,280
Speaker 1: because I think any society as large as ours, you're

1645
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:21,960
Speaker 1: gonna need to have some rapid response units, but we're

1646
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:24,439
Speaker 1: not using them for that, and there's way too many

1647
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:28,120
Speaker 1: of them now. While state data on SWAT deployments is lacking,

1648
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 1: I did find a fascinating report by two researchers, David

1649
01:29:31,439 --> 01:29:34,400
Speaker 1: Klinger and Jeff Rojack, using funds provided by the Department

1650
01:29:34,439 --> 01:29:37,080
Speaker 1: of Justice. In two thousand eight, they analyzed thousands of

1651
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:39,960
Speaker 1: SWAT raids nationwide, and what they found was fascinating. Out

1652
01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:43,280
Speaker 1: of tens of thousands of deployments they analyzed, SWAT officers

1653
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:46,919
Speaker 1: only fired their weapons in three hundred and forty two incidents.

1654
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:50,600
Speaker 1: Those officers shot two hundred citizens, killing one hundred and

1655
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 1: thirty nine of them. In seventy of these shootings, fewer

1656
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:58,400
Speaker 1: than ten rounds were used. Now, this suggests that military

1657
01:29:58,479 --> 01:30:01,160
Speaker 1: grade weaponry may not be neces sary for SWAT teams,

1658
01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:04,439
Speaker 1: since again, you don't need it. Yeah, they're not getting

1659
01:30:04,479 --> 01:30:08,320
Speaker 1: into gunfights. They sometimes they shoot people, but like and

1660
01:30:08,360 --> 01:30:09,720
Speaker 1: a lot of the time those a lot of those

1661
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:14,360
Speaker 1: guys who died were wounded by SWAT and then killed themselves. Um, yeah,

1662
01:30:14,479 --> 01:30:19,040
Speaker 1: it's it's yeah. Meanwhile, during this same span of time,

1663
01:30:19,439 --> 01:30:24,040
Speaker 1: SWAT officers had thirty nine accidental discharges, so shot two

1664
01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:28,519
Speaker 1: hundred citizens and accidentally fired their own weapons thirty nine times.

1665
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:32,559
Speaker 1: This means that accidental gunfire. We're looking at three forty

1666
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:36,400
Speaker 1: two um incidences where SWAT officers fired, and thirty nine

1667
01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:39,680
Speaker 1: of those are accidents. That's not an insignificant percentage of

1668
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:46,000
Speaker 1: all SWAT weapons discharges. Like that's that's that's noteworthy. The

1669
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:50,120
Speaker 1: study authors right quote. This data indicates that something is

1670
01:30:50,160 --> 01:30:52,920
Speaker 1: substantially amiss with the way that at least some SWAT

1671
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 1: officers handled their weapons and strongly suggests that this problem

1672
01:30:56,439 --> 01:30:58,960
Speaker 1: is rooted in training. That more than one in tent

1673
01:30:59,040 --> 01:31:00,879
Speaker 1: of the incidents and would to those who are supposed

1674
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:03,200
Speaker 1: to be the most highly trained officers in their agency

1675
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 1: fired shots involved accidental discharges is simply unacceptable in our minds.

1676
01:31:08,479 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 1: Among the aforementioned hundred thirty nine citizens who died after

1677
01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:13,720
Speaker 1: being struck by SWAT gunfire were two who fatally shot

1678
01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:16,320
Speaker 1: themselves after being hit by SWAT bullets. In addition to

1679
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:18,559
Speaker 1: these two, we have firm data that three d seventy

1680
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:22,120
Speaker 1: nine other individuals killed themselves in situations in which they

1681
01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:24,880
Speaker 1: were not shot by SWAT officers. It is thus clear

1682
01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:27,080
Speaker 1: that in the current data that it is more likely

1683
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:31,280
Speaker 1: citizen will take their own lives during SWAT operations than

1684
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:34,040
Speaker 1: be killed by SWAT officers by a margin of more

1685
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:37,280
Speaker 1: than two point five to one point five. Finally, the

1686
01:31:37,360 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 1: data indicate that nearly one in four citizens struck by

1687
01:31:40,160 --> 01:31:44,680
Speaker 1: SWAT gunfire wished to be shot, as respondents classified their

1688
01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:47,519
Speaker 1: actions as indicating they wish to commit suicide by cop.

1689
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:51,160
Speaker 1: If respondents classifications are correct, this indicates that an even

1690
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:53,880
Speaker 1: higher portion of the citizen deaths and SWAT operations involved

1691
01:31:53,920 --> 01:31:57,840
Speaker 1: individuals who wished to die. Thatt cent of the SWAT

1692
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:00,679
Speaker 1: officers struck by gunfire and the current day were shot

1693
01:32:00,760 --> 01:32:04,200
Speaker 1: by fellow officers. Suggests that while the most substantial threat

1694
01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:07,760
Speaker 1: officers face comes from armed suspects, the prospect of fratricide

1695
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:12,040
Speaker 1: looms large and tactical operations. So you're more likely to

1696
01:32:12,080 --> 01:32:16,320
Speaker 1: get shot by your homeboy. Not more likely, but pretty likely. Yeah,

1697
01:32:16,360 --> 01:32:19,880
Speaker 1: about when when SWAT officers are shot. More than one

1698
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:22,120
Speaker 1: intent of SWAT cops who get shot are shot by

1699
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:25,400
Speaker 1: their own guys, and one in ten times when SWAT

1700
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:29,880
Speaker 1: officers shoot, they're shooting negligently without meaning to fire. So

1701
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:35,080
Speaker 1: again the whole elite SWAT team thing. There are some

1702
01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 1: well trained SWAT teams out there. It's also real fucking

1703
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:43,280
Speaker 1: easy to to just give guys military grade weaponry, call

1704
01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:45,320
Speaker 1: him a SWAT team, and then they funk up. But

1705
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:48,080
Speaker 1: more than anything, SWAT teams don't get into a lot

1706
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:52,439
Speaker 1: of serious gunfights on a nationwide level. Um, and most

1707
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:56,640
Speaker 1: of the people they encounter who are seriously armed like

1708
01:32:56,720 --> 01:33:00,519
Speaker 1: our fucking want to kill themselves. Yeah, they to die,

1709
01:33:01,000 --> 01:33:03,200
Speaker 1: which is maybe suggests that a SWAT team isn't the

1710
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:06,559
Speaker 1: thing to bring to that person. They shouldn't go. Yeah,

1711
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:10,320
Speaker 1: maybe just a dude who's a good therapist having a

1712
01:33:10,439 --> 01:33:13,880
Speaker 1: conversation would have better odds of resolving this without gunfire.

1713
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:18,200
Speaker 1: Better chance. Yeah yeah, yeah. So the conclusions here are

1714
01:33:18,240 --> 01:33:21,040
Speaker 1: pretty clear. Number one, swat teams virtually never do these

1715
01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:23,519
Speaker 1: sort of work there portrayed doing in movies and tv

1716
01:33:23,720 --> 01:33:27,599
Speaker 1: I directly engaging dangerous bad guys. And number two, swat

1717
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:31,599
Speaker 1: teams kind of suck at their job regularly shooting people

1718
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:35,160
Speaker 1: and each other by accident. And perhaps no story illustrates

1719
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:38,560
Speaker 1: the second point better than the case of Wanas Thnava.

1720
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:43,160
Speaker 1: Uh now, good job, man, Yeah, I'm doing my best.

1721
01:33:43,240 --> 01:33:47,840
Speaker 1: Heere and on Wanas sold a small amount of methamphetamine

1722
01:33:48,120 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 1: UH to a confidential informant um or bought a yea

1723
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:54,560
Speaker 1: so sold a small amount of methamphetamine too a confidential

1724
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:57,200
Speaker 1: informant um. Several hours later, on the morning of the

1725
01:33:57,920 --> 01:34:01,080
Speaker 1: seven man swat team from the Cornelia, Georgia Police Department

1726
01:34:01,160 --> 01:34:04,280
Speaker 1: carried out a raid on wannass home. Now. Because Wanas

1727
01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:06,800
Speaker 1: had a previous weapons charge on his record, officers were

1728
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:09,800
Speaker 1: given a no knock warrant. They broke through Wannas's door

1729
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:11,760
Speaker 1: with a battering ram and as they were pushing the

1730
01:34:11,800 --> 01:34:14,360
Speaker 1: door in, they noticed there was resistance behind the door

1731
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:17,240
Speaker 1: and this led that what the officers in the swat

1732
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:20,320
Speaker 1: team to believe that they're like someone had barricaded the door,

1733
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:23,280
Speaker 1: so they tossed a flash bang in. Now, it turned

1734
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:25,200
Speaker 1: out that the thing that had actually been against the

1735
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:29,360
Speaker 1: door was the playpen where wannass nineteen month old child

1736
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:33,320
Speaker 1: was sleeping. UH. The flash bang ignited the nineteen month

1737
01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:36,840
Speaker 1: old child, burning it badly and tearing the child's face

1738
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:39,680
Speaker 1: and chest open um. The kid was put into a

1739
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:43,600
Speaker 1: coma and very very nearly died. The swat and was

1740
01:34:43,720 --> 01:34:46,040
Speaker 1: you know, suffered permanent injury as a result of the

1741
01:34:46,120 --> 01:34:49,040
Speaker 1: police flash bang igniting it. The swat team found only

1742
01:34:49,120 --> 01:34:51,360
Speaker 1: a small amount of meth residue in the home and

1743
01:34:51,479 --> 01:34:55,000
Speaker 1: no wet weapons. No arrests were made. When the Bonus

1744
01:34:55,040 --> 01:34:58,880
Speaker 1: EVA sued, a local prosecutor threatened to charge them for

1745
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:02,280
Speaker 1: their child's in reese. In the end, no officers were

1746
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:05,800
Speaker 1: indicted for horrifically maiming a small child. I found one

1747
01:35:05,920 --> 01:35:08,280
Speaker 1: CNN article that interviewed the sheriff in charge of the

1748
01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:12,160
Speaker 1: swat team, a guy named Tarrell. Quote in hindsight, Tarrell said,

1749
01:35:12,160 --> 01:35:14,519
Speaker 1: at the time, officers would have conducted the raid differently

1750
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:16,320
Speaker 1: had they known there was a child inside the home,

1751
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 1: but there was no sign of children during the alleged

1752
01:35:18,479 --> 01:35:20,880
Speaker 1: drug purchase that prompted the raid. We might have gone

1753
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:22,600
Speaker 1: in through a side door, he said, We would not

1754
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:28,000
Speaker 1: have used a flash bang like and defense. Yeah, that's

1755
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:31,200
Speaker 1: interesting to me because it shows it it never occurs

1756
01:35:31,240 --> 01:35:34,200
Speaker 1: to this guy that like, maybe maybe a dude selling

1757
01:35:34,240 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 1: a small amount of meths, maybe sending in an army

1758
01:35:37,880 --> 01:35:41,120
Speaker 1: to funk with that guy, and that army having grenades

1759
01:35:41,160 --> 01:35:44,000
Speaker 1: and battering rams. Maybe that's inherently reckless in a bad

1760
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:46,360
Speaker 1: way to deal with. Again, a small amount of meth

1761
01:35:46,439 --> 01:35:49,360
Speaker 1: being sold. Yeah, and it's just it kind of feels

1762
01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 1: like to me, like, if I'm this wat guy, I

1763
01:35:51,200 --> 01:35:55,240
Speaker 1: feel a little insulted. Yeah, you think I'm so incompetent.

1764
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:58,920
Speaker 1: That has got to be nineteen of us with with

1765
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:02,680
Speaker 1: sucking fifty cows to come get this one dude that

1766
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:06,400
Speaker 1: just sold a little men imposedly most get like, you

1767
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:10,200
Speaker 1: think I'm that weak that I can't just Yeah, it's

1768
01:36:10,280 --> 01:36:12,760
Speaker 1: it's fucking It's the problem with militarization in general, which

1769
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:15,720
Speaker 1: is that like it. It means that you're going to

1770
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:19,479
Speaker 1: have a military situation if the police are going it's

1771
01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:23,519
Speaker 1: fucking Waco. When you start the conversation with tanks and

1772
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:27,040
Speaker 1: machine guns and snipers, You're not going to end it

1773
01:36:27,439 --> 01:36:29,040
Speaker 1: in a good way. You're going to end it by

1774
01:36:29,080 --> 01:36:33,080
Speaker 1: burning seventy children alive. Because that's this is so how

1775
01:36:33,160 --> 01:36:36,120
Speaker 1: that works. This is so true in every area of

1776
01:36:36,200 --> 01:36:39,200
Speaker 1: your life. If you're in any sort of relationship, whether

1777
01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:43,640
Speaker 1: it's a monogamous one or a romantic or a or

1778
01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:48,840
Speaker 1: a friendship or a sibling, if you come in guns ablazing,

1779
01:36:49,439 --> 01:36:52,519
Speaker 1: it's just not gonna work. No, this is your Yeah,

1780
01:36:53,000 --> 01:36:54,960
Speaker 1: this is exactly why I was able to improve a

1781
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:58,040
Speaker 1: lot of my personal relationships propped when I stopped having

1782
01:36:58,120 --> 01:37:00,680
Speaker 1: the b A T. F Um show with tanks to

1783
01:37:00,760 --> 01:37:03,360
Speaker 1: support me. You know that that really was was a

1784
01:37:03,439 --> 01:37:06,559
Speaker 1: game changer for me. Um. I imagine, man, a lot

1785
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:08,920
Speaker 1: less of my friends get burnt to death in in

1786
01:37:09,240 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 1: basement compounds outside of Waco. Now, yeah, yeah, that's good man,

1787
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:16,240
Speaker 1: because I live and learn, and because I really like

1788
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:20,360
Speaker 1: the reference in here, Robert, just a Waco reference in everywhere.

1789
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:25,320
Speaker 1: Hey Man, talk about talk about Waco. Talk about a rebranding.

1790
01:37:25,400 --> 01:37:33,800
Speaker 1: Boy has gotten Yeah, yeah, I mean it was now

1791
01:37:33,920 --> 01:37:37,560
Speaker 1: the Home and Garden TV Network. That's we have some

1792
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:42,240
Speaker 1: sort of oversized initial letter in your room and uh,

1793
01:37:42,640 --> 01:37:46,760
Speaker 1: a refurbished wood panel. We have a farmhouse store and

1794
01:37:46,800 --> 01:37:50,920
Speaker 1: a farmhouse sink and yeah, and you admire Joanna Gaines

1795
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:56,640
Speaker 1: there it is build an empire. She built it. She

1796
01:37:56,760 --> 01:38:00,320
Speaker 1: built an empire out of a city that was known

1797
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:04,360
Speaker 1: for burning seventy babies. Well, I don't understand most of

1798
01:38:04,439 --> 01:38:06,200
Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, but you know what I

1799
01:38:06,280 --> 01:38:09,760
Speaker 1: do understand is that we're gonna we're gonna talk about

1800
01:38:09,800 --> 01:38:11,920
Speaker 1: another kind of Waco type thing where a bunch of

1801
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:14,640
Speaker 1: children get burned by militarized police. At the end of this,

1802
01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:17,640
Speaker 1: that's gonna be fun. Um all right, fun is the

1803
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:20,519
Speaker 1: wrong word anyway, So like the the the again, like

1804
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:23,040
Speaker 1: the point here is that like the worst case scenario

1805
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:27,240
Speaker 1: of like what happened with Wantas and his family without

1806
01:38:27,320 --> 01:38:30,240
Speaker 1: the police is that like, oh, these parents might be

1807
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:33,360
Speaker 1: selling small amounts of meth amphetamine and that maybe isn't

1808
01:38:33,400 --> 01:38:35,799
Speaker 1: great for a kid, and that this is a problem

1809
01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:39,120
Speaker 1: that does need a solution to it. Um. But the

1810
01:38:39,439 --> 01:38:43,080
Speaker 1: solution that they got a grenade burning their child alive.

1811
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:46,320
Speaker 1: It was worse than probably anything that would have happened

1812
01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:49,439
Speaker 1: if they'd just been left selling math right, like or

1813
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:53,120
Speaker 1: just or take fifteen minutes more to do just a

1814
01:38:53,240 --> 01:38:55,760
Speaker 1: little bit of investigation on the guy and be like,

1815
01:38:55,960 --> 01:38:59,479
Speaker 1: oh he's a parent, Yeah, it's it's it's always that

1816
01:38:59,640 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 1: like with way Go, like there was there was a problem,

1817
01:39:01,479 --> 01:39:03,920
Speaker 1: David Koresh was doing some fucked up ship. You could

1818
01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:06,320
Speaker 1: have just arrested him and not burned like those kids,

1819
01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:09,040
Speaker 1: whatever they were going through under Koresh, getting burnt alive

1820
01:39:09,200 --> 01:39:12,840
Speaker 1: was worse for them. Absolutely. The police made it worse.

1821
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:17,240
Speaker 1: And it's because militarized police are a hammer and we've

1822
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:19,360
Speaker 1: got a hammer. Every single problem looks like a nail,

1823
01:39:19,439 --> 01:39:21,760
Speaker 1: and like, if that hammer is a hammer in the

1824
01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:24,120
Speaker 1: hands of a cop, it's specifically going to be used

1825
01:39:24,160 --> 01:39:26,360
Speaker 1: to hammer the faces of black people. Um, because that's

1826
01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:29,400
Speaker 1: how cops work. As we've previously discussed, I've had a

1827
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:32,360
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen study published by the National Academy of Sciences.

1828
01:39:32,439 --> 01:39:35,120
Speaker 1: It uses a geo coded census of SWAT team deployments

1829
01:39:35,160 --> 01:39:38,479
Speaker 1: in Maryland and shows that quote, militarized police units are

1830
01:39:38,520 --> 01:39:40,840
Speaker 1: more often deployed in communities with large shares of African

1831
01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:44,400
Speaker 1: American residents, even after controlling for local crime rates. Further,

1832
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:48,080
Speaker 1: using nationwide panel data on local police militarization, I demonstrate

1833
01:39:48,120 --> 01:39:51,080
Speaker 1: that militarized policing fails to enhance officers safety or reduce

1834
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:55,320
Speaker 1: local crime. So after controlling for variables like local crime rates,

1835
01:39:55,360 --> 01:39:57,479
Speaker 1: the author of the study calculated that for every ten

1836
01:39:57,560 --> 01:39:59,880
Speaker 1: percent increase in the black population of a zip code,

1837
01:40:00,120 --> 01:40:02,280
Speaker 1: there is a ten percent increase in the likelihood of

1838
01:40:02,360 --> 01:40:05,840
Speaker 1: that zip code experiencing a SWAT raid now and again.

1839
01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:09,000
Speaker 1: He also showed that swat raids and SWAT teams don't

1840
01:40:09,120 --> 01:40:13,880
Speaker 1: reduce violent crime, so they're they're they're kind of what

1841
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:17,840
Speaker 1: you're seeing here. Sure looks like they're just being used

1842
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:20,679
Speaker 1: vindictively against black people, you know, whether or not there's

1843
01:40:20,720 --> 01:40:25,080
Speaker 1: intention behind it. That's how the data really looks now. Yeah. Yeah.

1844
01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:27,880
Speaker 1: A Washington Post write up of the research notes telling

1845
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:31,160
Speaker 1: Lee Uh he found no statistically significant change in the

1846
01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:34,120
Speaker 1: killings of police officers, which were too infrequent to measure,

1847
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:36,360
Speaker 1: or assaults on police officers. So again, part of the

1848
01:40:36,439 --> 01:40:39,360
Speaker 1: justification of SWAT teams is that, like, police are in

1849
01:40:39,479 --> 01:40:42,120
Speaker 1: so much danger that we need special, heavily armored police.

1850
01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:45,280
Speaker 1: And it's like, actually, when SWAT teams are used all

1851
01:40:45,320 --> 01:40:47,160
Speaker 1: the time, cops still get killed with the same right,

1852
01:40:47,240 --> 01:40:51,639
Speaker 1: it has no impact. Yeah, so SWAT raids also get

1853
01:40:51,840 --> 01:40:56,160
Speaker 1: just so many dogs killed. My so so many dogs

1854
01:40:56,400 --> 01:40:58,760
Speaker 1: getting killed by fucking swat teams. If you want to

1855
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:01,000
Speaker 1: know what swat teams love to you most, it's it's

1856
01:41:01,040 --> 01:41:05,479
Speaker 1: shoots some goddamn dogs. Um, it's impossible to to separate

1857
01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:07,439
Speaker 1: the number of dogs killed by swat from the number

1858
01:41:07,439 --> 01:41:09,599
Speaker 1: of dogs killed by regular cops serving the same kinds

1859
01:41:09,600 --> 01:41:13,360
Speaker 1: of search warrants, because again, regular cops regularly serve the

1860
01:41:13,439 --> 01:41:16,439
Speaker 1: exact same kind of search warrants swat cops serve, which

1861
01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:18,400
Speaker 1: maybe suggests that why do we have swat teams? If

1862
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:23,400
Speaker 1: yea also but yeah, um either way, a shipload of

1863
01:41:23,439 --> 01:41:26,360
Speaker 1: fucking dogs get killed when police serve warrants, and a

1864
01:41:26,439 --> 01:41:28,640
Speaker 1: lot of those warrants are served tens of thousands of

1865
01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:31,439
Speaker 1: them are served by swat teams. Um. We will never

1866
01:41:31,520 --> 01:41:35,559
Speaker 1: know how many dogs get killed exactly um by police

1867
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:37,840
Speaker 1: in this country. But in two thousands sixteen, one Justice

1868
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:40,880
Speaker 1: Department expert called the police shooting of dogs and epidemic.

1869
01:41:41,240 --> 01:41:43,840
Speaker 1: It is estimated that cops shoot twenty five dogs in

1870
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:47,080
Speaker 1: this country every single day, and some estimates range as

1871
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:50,160
Speaker 1: high as five hundred dogs per day. It is very

1872
01:41:50,320 --> 01:41:53,880
Speaker 1: likely that police use their guns to shoot dogs more

1873
01:41:53,960 --> 01:41:56,640
Speaker 1: than they use their guns for any other purpose nationwide.

1874
01:41:57,880 --> 01:42:00,920
Speaker 1: Why because they fucking I mean, you know, I've actually

1875
01:42:00,920 --> 01:42:03,000
Speaker 1: talked to some cops about this, um and including I

1876
01:42:03,080 --> 01:42:04,840
Speaker 1: talked to a cop who had to who was in

1877
01:42:04,920 --> 01:42:06,680
Speaker 1: a justified shoot of a dog, a dog that like

1878
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:09,599
Speaker 1: maimed her to the point that her life has never

1879
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:12,360
Speaker 1: been the same since. Like, obviously the dog is tearing

1880
01:42:12,400 --> 01:42:15,880
Speaker 1: you apart. Yeah, you're gonna shoot that dog. Um, Like

1881
01:42:16,400 --> 01:42:18,639
Speaker 1: I've talked to some police about this and like one

1882
01:42:18,760 --> 01:42:21,479
Speaker 1: theorious why it happens so much without like there are

1883
01:42:21,560 --> 01:42:24,519
Speaker 1: some justife, like a lot of like sometimes fucking people

1884
01:42:24,560 --> 01:42:27,320
Speaker 1: who have dog fighting rings get rated and like, yeah, yeah,

1885
01:42:27,320 --> 01:42:29,040
Speaker 1: you're gonna shoot some of those dogs because they're just

1886
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:32,080
Speaker 1: like they've been broken and they're dangerous. Um. But also

1887
01:42:32,640 --> 01:42:34,720
Speaker 1: a lot of cops are terrified of dogs. And if

1888
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:38,240
Speaker 1: cops are terrified, they get to shoot UM. So even

1889
01:42:38,280 --> 01:42:43,800
Speaker 1: in situations where there's no life exactly a lot of

1890
01:42:43,880 --> 01:42:47,400
Speaker 1: the time, probably most of the time, there's no justification

1891
01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:54,000
Speaker 1: for the animals. That's that's that's yeah, yeah, and one

1892
01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:56,640
Speaker 1: out of fight training makes you scared, and that's what

1893
01:42:56,720 --> 01:42:59,360
Speaker 1: I want to get into. The training makes you scared.

1894
01:43:00,040 --> 01:43:02,280
Speaker 1: And in one out of five of these incidents of

1895
01:43:02,360 --> 01:43:05,720
Speaker 1: a police dog shootings, a child was either in the

1896
01:43:05,880 --> 01:43:09,920
Speaker 1: direct line of fire or standing nearby, and one horrifying

1897
01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:12,200
Speaker 1: to Thus, in fifteen case, a four year old girl

1898
01:43:12,320 --> 01:43:14,400
Speaker 1: was shot in the leg by a police officer who

1899
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:17,240
Speaker 1: was trying to shoot her dog. UM. And this dog

1900
01:43:17,400 --> 01:43:21,200
Speaker 1: was not threatening this police officer necessarily UM. Thus the

1901
01:43:21,360 --> 01:43:25,080
Speaker 1: officer felt threatened, like he felt like he might get bit,

1902
01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:28,280
Speaker 1: and even fear of a minor injury um is enough

1903
01:43:28,479 --> 01:43:31,000
Speaker 1: to make an officer completely immune to any consequences for

1904
01:43:31,080 --> 01:43:33,920
Speaker 1: shooting a dog. Meanwhile, I should note people who kill

1905
01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:37,320
Speaker 1: police dogs regularly face longer sentences than child molest us.

1906
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:40,280
Speaker 1: You'll go away for life if you shoot a police dog. Um.

1907
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:43,600
Speaker 1: But police can imagine. Yeah, can you imagine having the

1908
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:45,640
Speaker 1: right to slap the ship out of somebody because you

1909
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:49,479
Speaker 1: think they might slap you. Yeah, it's pretty pretty crazy,

1910
01:43:50,320 --> 01:43:53,080
Speaker 1: pretty bad. So this may seem like it's getting a

1911
01:43:53,080 --> 01:43:55,120
Speaker 1: little bit off the topic of police militarization, but it

1912
01:43:55,160 --> 01:43:57,360
Speaker 1: really is not. A lot of times when liberals talk

1913
01:43:57,400 --> 01:44:00,639
Speaker 1: about reforming police, they discussed the need for more police training,

1914
01:44:01,080 --> 01:44:04,120
Speaker 1: but police actually go through a shipload of training. Like

1915
01:44:04,200 --> 01:44:06,439
Speaker 1: there's there's a bunch of billboards or like placards them

1916
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:08,160
Speaker 1: going in a protest that like talked about how much

1917
01:44:08,200 --> 01:44:12,000
Speaker 1: less cops training cops need than like hairstylists, And that's true,

1918
01:44:12,120 --> 01:44:14,600
Speaker 1: but that's true for how much cops training. Cops need

1919
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:16,439
Speaker 1: to get on the street. They take a lot of

1920
01:44:16,520 --> 01:44:20,040
Speaker 1: training after becoming cops, and a lot of that training

1921
01:44:20,360 --> 01:44:23,360
Speaker 1: makes them more dangerous as cops. Um. And this is

1922
01:44:23,439 --> 01:44:25,439
Speaker 1: part of the problem we talk about like needing to

1923
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:28,960
Speaker 1: train police more. Over the last twenty years, police training

1924
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:33,120
Speaker 1: has become increasingly paramilitary, with military veterans like Lieutenant Colonel

1925
01:44:33,160 --> 01:44:37,479
Speaker 1: David Grossman and companies like Close Quarters Battle CQB providing

1926
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:41,120
Speaker 1: training that deliberately bills itself as military style and refers

1927
01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:43,920
Speaker 1: to officers as warriors, all while convincing them that they

1928
01:44:43,960 --> 01:44:46,800
Speaker 1: are in more danger than cops have ever faced. From

1929
01:44:46,840 --> 01:44:49,920
Speaker 1: the end of policing. Quote Sef Stoughton, a former police

1930
01:44:49,960 --> 01:44:53,000
Speaker 1: officer turned law professors, shows how officers are repeatedly exposed

1931
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:56,080
Speaker 1: to scenarios in which seemingly innocuous interactions with the public,

1932
01:44:56,200 --> 01:44:59,400
Speaker 1: such as traffic stops, turned deadly. The endlessly repeated point

1933
01:44:59,479 --> 01:45:01,960
Speaker 1: is that any encounter can turn deadly in a split second.

1934
01:45:02,040 --> 01:45:04,439
Speaker 1: Of officers don't remain ready to use lethal force at

1935
01:45:04,520 --> 01:45:09,320
Speaker 1: any moment. So take the case of John Crawford, an

1936
01:45:09,320 --> 01:45:11,800
Speaker 1: African American man shot to death by a police officer

1937
01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:14,360
Speaker 1: in Walmart and Ohio. Crawford had picked up an air

1938
01:45:14,439 --> 01:45:16,160
Speaker 1: gun off the shelf and was carrying it around the

1939
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:19,040
Speaker 1: store while shopping. Another shopper called nine one one to

1940
01:45:19,160 --> 01:45:21,000
Speaker 1: report a man with a gun in the store. The

1941
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:24,040
Speaker 1: stores video camera shows that one of the responding officers

1942
01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:26,519
Speaker 1: shot without warning while Crawford was talking on the phone.

1943
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:29,479
Speaker 1: In Ohio, it is legal to carry a gun openly,

1944
01:45:29,720 --> 01:45:31,719
Speaker 1: but the officer had been trained to use deadly force

1945
01:45:31,840 --> 01:45:35,479
Speaker 1: upon seeing a gun. Similarly, in South Carolina, a state

1946
01:45:35,560 --> 01:45:37,280
Speaker 1: trooper drove up to a young man in his car

1947
01:45:37,360 --> 01:45:39,639
Speaker 1: at a gas station and asked him for his driver's license.

1948
01:45:39,960 --> 01:45:42,320
Speaker 1: He leaned into the car to comply, and the officers

1949
01:45:42,360 --> 01:45:46,680
Speaker 1: shot him without warning. See Unexpected movement shoot. This is

1950
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:49,800
Speaker 1: again what you get with more police training. This is

1951
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:53,320
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, The training makes you scared. Yes, yeah,

1952
01:45:53,720 --> 01:45:56,560
Speaker 1: more training is not the solution because this is what

1953
01:45:56,720 --> 01:45:59,960
Speaker 1: the training does. Yeah, you could argue maybe different training

1954
01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:02,160
Speaker 1: is the solution, but you also still have tens of

1955
01:46:02,200 --> 01:46:04,719
Speaker 1: thousands of cops who already have this ship in their heads.

1956
01:46:04,760 --> 01:46:06,920
Speaker 1: What do you do with them? If they're still on

1957
01:46:07,000 --> 01:46:08,880
Speaker 1: the force, how do you how do you cleanse that

1958
01:46:09,200 --> 01:46:13,639
Speaker 1: from them? Are you confident you can? Now? Modern police

1959
01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:16,160
Speaker 1: US cops are equipped with military grid weaponry, but not

1960
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:18,920
Speaker 1: with military grade training. They're told that their own safety

1961
01:46:19,000 --> 01:46:20,840
Speaker 1: is their number one concern and anything they do to

1962
01:46:20,880 --> 01:46:24,679
Speaker 1: protect themselves is justified. We have essentially raised and equipped

1963
01:46:24,680 --> 01:46:27,040
Speaker 1: a military, told them that they are at war every

1964
01:46:27,120 --> 01:46:29,000
Speaker 1: day with the people of this country, and then sent

1965
01:46:29,080 --> 01:46:30,720
Speaker 1: them out to the streets with a license to kill

1966
01:46:30,800 --> 01:46:33,439
Speaker 1: if they feel scared for any reason. And this is

1967
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:37,280
Speaker 1: not a simple right versus left issue. After Democrat Michael

1968
01:46:37,360 --> 01:46:40,040
Speaker 1: Ducacus was defeated in nineteen eighty eight for being soft

1969
01:46:40,120 --> 01:46:44,439
Speaker 1: on crime via a super racist ad, Democrats pivoted to Yeah,

1970
01:46:44,439 --> 01:46:48,040
Speaker 1: the Willie Horton ad. Democrats pivoted to endorsing right wing

1971
01:46:48,120 --> 01:46:51,719
Speaker 1: law and order politics. Bill Clinton's nine Crime Bill added

1972
01:46:51,760 --> 01:46:54,519
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of police nationwide and expanded the drug war,

1973
01:46:54,880 --> 01:46:57,360
Speaker 1: And in fact, it wasn't until Clinton's second term that

1974
01:46:57,479 --> 01:47:01,800
Speaker 1: widespread police militarization was even made stable. In nineteen ninety seven,

1975
01:47:01,840 --> 01:47:03,760
Speaker 1: a bunch of heavily armed and armored gunmen try to

1976
01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:05,720
Speaker 1: rob some businesses and get into a big gunfight with

1977
01:47:05,800 --> 01:47:09,559
Speaker 1: Los Angeles cops. Is the North Hollywood shoot out? Um? Yeah,

1978
01:47:09,880 --> 01:47:12,479
Speaker 1: police side arms were incapable of piercing their armor, and

1979
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:14,800
Speaker 1: cops had to borrow high caliber rifles from a nearby

1980
01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:18,439
Speaker 1: gun store. When the National Defense Authorization Act was passed

1981
01:47:18,520 --> 01:47:21,320
Speaker 1: later that year, it included the ten thirty three Program,

1982
01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:25,360
Speaker 1: a provision that allowed law enforcement agencies to acquire military hardware.

1983
01:47:25,600 --> 01:47:28,800
Speaker 1: Between nineteen ninety seven and two thousand fourteen, five point

1984
01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:31,759
Speaker 1: one billion dollars in material was transferred from the Department

1985
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:35,519
Speaker 1: of Defense to local law enforcement. Now near the end

1986
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:38,240
Speaker 1: of his time in office, President Obama attempted to belatedly

1987
01:47:38,320 --> 01:47:41,600
Speaker 1: halt this massive transfer of military armaments to police, but

1988
01:47:41,720 --> 01:47:44,719
Speaker 1: President Trump reversed that and accelerated the transfer of military

1989
01:47:44,760 --> 01:47:46,960
Speaker 1: weapons to cops. And this is why in a ten

1990
01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:50,719
Speaker 1: year period, forty nine m wraps mine resistant patrol vehicles

1991
01:47:50,840 --> 01:47:53,720
Speaker 1: were handed out to police departments in Florida alone. Many

1992
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:56,519
Speaker 1: of these went to lightly populated rural counties like Baker

1993
01:47:56,640 --> 01:48:01,240
Speaker 1: population seven thousand. In Ohio, the Department of Natural Resources

1994
01:48:01,560 --> 01:48:05,519
Speaker 1: received two hundred and forty fully automatic rifles. The Los

1995
01:48:05,560 --> 01:48:08,640
Speaker 1: Angeles County Sheriff's Department got seven hundred and sixty eight

1996
01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:11,200
Speaker 1: fully automatic rifles. By the way, I found all of

1997
01:48:11,240 --> 01:48:13,800
Speaker 1: this in a Forbes breakdown, which notes that US cops

1998
01:48:13,880 --> 01:48:17,280
Speaker 1: also received more than six thousand bayonets between two thousand

1999
01:48:17,360 --> 01:48:20,280
Speaker 1: six and two thousand seventeen. What do you need six

2000
01:48:21,320 --> 01:48:24,320
Speaker 1: like our millets? Our soldiers don't even fucking use bayonets

2001
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:27,320
Speaker 1: anymore because they're useless and modern. They weren't even that

2002
01:48:27,439 --> 01:48:31,600
Speaker 1: useful when bayonets were actually used in combat. Um So,

2003
01:48:32,360 --> 01:48:34,840
Speaker 1: remember the study that showed SWAT teams were more likely

2004
01:48:34,880 --> 01:48:37,439
Speaker 1: to be deployed in black neighborhoods. Well, it also found

2005
01:48:37,479 --> 01:48:40,879
Speaker 1: that quote seeing militarized police and news reports made diminish

2006
01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:43,720
Speaker 1: police reputation in the mass public. And this is you

2007
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:46,080
Speaker 1: know there's that news story about like the the l

2008
01:48:46,160 --> 01:48:48,559
Speaker 1: A school police having an m wrap. These are the tanks,

2009
01:48:48,960 --> 01:48:51,519
Speaker 1: Like they're not really tanks, but they're huge armored trucks.

2010
01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:54,800
Speaker 1: And I have a story about huge armored trucks prop

2011
01:48:54,920 --> 01:48:58,639
Speaker 1: because when I was in Moses, most of the people

2012
01:48:58,680 --> 01:49:00,400
Speaker 1: I was inbedded with were the Iraqi me and they

2013
01:49:00,439 --> 01:49:02,840
Speaker 1: mostly drove a mix of like technicals which are just

2014
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:05,800
Speaker 1: like Toyota trucks with guns in the bed uh and

2015
01:49:05,920 --> 01:49:08,200
Speaker 1: old U s military hum vs. They didn't have a

2016
01:49:08,280 --> 01:49:11,880
Speaker 1: whole lot of heavy military vehicles. The only time you

2017
01:49:11,920 --> 01:49:15,040
Speaker 1: saw US police in the places, or the US cops

2018
01:49:15,160 --> 01:49:16,720
Speaker 1: or not cops. Sorry. The only time you say US

2019
01:49:16,760 --> 01:49:19,080
Speaker 1: soldiers in the places where I was was when they

2020
01:49:19,120 --> 01:49:21,000
Speaker 1: were rolling around in em wraps and usually be a

2021
01:49:21,040 --> 01:49:24,120
Speaker 1: patrol of like three of these gigantic I can't exaggerate

2022
01:49:24,160 --> 01:49:27,519
Speaker 1: how fucking big an im wrap looks there. They are

2023
01:49:28,080 --> 01:49:31,200
Speaker 1: nightmarishly large vehicles, and they look like The first time

2024
01:49:31,320 --> 01:49:33,280
Speaker 1: I remember seeing one is I'm on the out, like

2025
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:36,040
Speaker 1: maybe a quarter of a mile back from the front line,

2026
01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:38,600
Speaker 1: and I'm like literally sitting and smoking a cigarette with

2027
01:49:39,080 --> 01:49:41,920
Speaker 1: um my photographer and some friends on a pile of rubble,

2028
01:49:42,240 --> 01:49:44,920
Speaker 1: like listening to a gunfight occur in the distance, and

2029
01:49:45,160 --> 01:49:47,439
Speaker 1: there's like little kids running around and stuff, trying to

2030
01:49:47,479 --> 01:49:49,680
Speaker 1: sell us things and whatnot. Like we all stopped for

2031
01:49:49,720 --> 01:49:52,320
Speaker 1: a second as this US patrol rolls by, and these

2032
01:49:52,360 --> 01:49:55,120
Speaker 1: three giant m wraps, And the first thing I think

2033
01:49:55,200 --> 01:49:57,200
Speaker 1: of when I see them up close and personal for

2034
01:49:57,280 --> 01:50:03,799
Speaker 1: the first time is like, these look like a T eighties.

2035
01:50:04,479 --> 01:50:06,400
Speaker 1: That's what these are is these are these are the

2036
01:50:06,560 --> 01:50:10,200
Speaker 1: These are the fucking Imperial Stormtroopers T eight You can't

2037
01:50:10,240 --> 01:50:13,320
Speaker 1: see the human beings inside, you can't see people. It

2038
01:50:13,479 --> 01:50:18,960
Speaker 1: is just this. It's this, this physical manifestation of the

2039
01:50:19,120 --> 01:50:21,400
Speaker 1: violent power of the state. That's what it felt like.

2040
01:50:21,479 --> 01:50:23,400
Speaker 1: And that's what I could see. These little Iraqi kids

2041
01:50:23,520 --> 01:50:26,080
Speaker 1: on the ground, like we're seeing that that was what

2042
01:50:26,200 --> 01:50:29,000
Speaker 1: a U. S. Soldier was to them, was like was

2043
01:50:29,240 --> 01:50:33,680
Speaker 1: was a fucking machine. And that's what seeing these in

2044
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:35,960
Speaker 1: the hands of cops makes you think about cops, Like

2045
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:38,160
Speaker 1: police want to wonder, like why people don't like them

2046
01:50:38,240 --> 01:50:40,880
Speaker 1: or expect them anymore. It's because we see you as

2047
01:50:41,000 --> 01:50:45,439
Speaker 1: pieces of an armed machine and nobody likes Yeah, you

2048
01:50:45,680 --> 01:50:48,000
Speaker 1: rolled up like the Sith Lord, like you look like

2049
01:50:48,720 --> 01:50:50,560
Speaker 1: you look like Darth Vader, like you you know what

2050
01:50:50,560 --> 01:50:53,360
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, you look like stormtroopers. We don't

2051
01:50:53,400 --> 01:50:58,800
Speaker 1: like stormtroopers. No, they're not the good guys. Yeah. Now,

2052
01:50:58,880 --> 01:51:01,000
Speaker 1: I could go on and on about like the insane

2053
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:02,920
Speaker 1: weaponry cops are given these days, and I could list

2054
01:51:02,960 --> 01:51:05,560
Speaker 1: repeated anecdotes about how often they badly misuse it. But

2055
01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:07,360
Speaker 1: I think the most important point to end on for

2056
01:51:07,439 --> 01:51:10,080
Speaker 1: this episode and for this series is how fucking much

2057
01:51:10,200 --> 01:51:13,320
Speaker 1: we spend on militarized police for how fucking little we get.

2058
01:51:13,880 --> 01:51:17,240
Speaker 1: The Minneapolis Police Department takes up thirty five percent of

2059
01:51:17,320 --> 01:51:20,800
Speaker 1: the city's general fund, The Chicago p D are thirty

2060
01:51:20,920 --> 01:51:24,400
Speaker 1: seven percent of their city's budget. Atlanta and Detroit police

2061
01:51:24,479 --> 01:51:26,560
Speaker 1: come in and about thirty percent. The l A p

2062
01:51:26,720 --> 01:51:30,000
Speaker 1: D is a quarter of Los Angeles's budget. Many cities

2063
01:51:30,040 --> 01:51:33,639
Speaker 1: spend up to of their municipal budgets on their police department,

2064
01:51:33,960 --> 01:51:36,720
Speaker 1: making the basically making like a lot of cities in

2065
01:51:36,720 --> 01:51:39,679
Speaker 1: the US are basically like small armies with towns attached

2066
01:51:39,720 --> 01:51:42,360
Speaker 1: to them. Up until the nineteen eighties, the U. S

2067
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:44,760
Speaker 1: Government spent about as much money on criminal justice as

2068
01:51:44,840 --> 01:51:48,000
Speaker 1: we did on cash welfare, on like welfare programs that deliberately,

2069
01:51:48,080 --> 01:51:51,000
Speaker 1: like directly hand out like aid to people um. Up

2070
01:51:51,120 --> 01:51:53,920
Speaker 1: until the nineteen eighties, Yeah, about equal what we spent

2071
01:51:53,960 --> 01:51:56,719
Speaker 1: on law enforcement we spent on welfare. In the decades since,

2072
01:51:57,040 --> 01:52:00,759
Speaker 1: welfare spending has declined and police funding has word, Today

2073
01:52:00,840 --> 01:52:03,040
Speaker 1: we spend more than twice as much money on law

2074
01:52:03,120 --> 01:52:05,920
Speaker 1: and order as we do on social welfare, and we

2075
01:52:06,080 --> 01:52:08,880
Speaker 1: get very little for our money. For all the weapons

2076
01:52:08,880 --> 01:52:11,679
Speaker 1: really buy our cops, the vast majority of police officers

2077
01:52:11,760 --> 01:52:14,240
Speaker 1: will never fire a weapon in the line of duty.

2078
01:52:14,600 --> 01:52:18,040
Speaker 1: For all that police not once, not once. For all

2079
01:52:18,120 --> 01:52:21,920
Speaker 1: that police advocates talk about dangerous criminals, most police officers

2080
01:52:22,040 --> 01:52:25,479
Speaker 1: make no more than one felony arrest per year. And

2081
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:27,559
Speaker 1: when it comes to the question of how good police

2082
01:52:27,560 --> 01:52:30,719
Speaker 1: are it actually solving crimes. About forty percent of murders

2083
01:52:30,760 --> 01:52:34,879
Speaker 1: go unsolved, only about fifty three percent of aggravated assaults

2084
01:52:34,920 --> 01:52:37,800
Speaker 1: are solved, less than thirty percent of robberies are solved,

2085
01:52:37,840 --> 01:52:42,640
Speaker 1: and only about of automobile thefts are solved. The FBI's

2086
01:52:42,760 --> 01:52:45,920
Speaker 1: Uniform Crime Reports says that thirty percent of rapes are solved,

2087
01:52:46,120 --> 01:52:48,400
Speaker 1: but that number doesn't really tell the whole story. And

2088
01:52:48,439 --> 01:52:51,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from the Guardian for this one because again,

2089
01:52:51,400 --> 01:52:53,280
Speaker 1: this is like the reason I bring this up is that,

2090
01:52:53,320 --> 01:52:55,040
Speaker 1: like that's one of the number one things. Like people

2091
01:52:55,080 --> 01:52:58,360
Speaker 1: who will argue about like police abolition, other folks will say, like, well,

2092
01:52:58,360 --> 01:53:00,280
Speaker 1: who are you gonna call if you're getting raped? Let's

2093
01:53:00,280 --> 01:53:03,000
Speaker 1: talk about how good police do in solving rapes. Not

2094
01:53:03,120 --> 01:53:05,439
Speaker 1: only that, I hear the argument like, no, they need

2095
01:53:05,560 --> 01:53:08,200
Speaker 1: more money, they are underfunded, and I'm like, actually they're

2096
01:53:08,240 --> 01:53:11,080
Speaker 1: more funded than every other program. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

2097
01:53:11,280 --> 01:53:15,120
Speaker 1: significantly more. I'm gonna quote from the Guardian for this

2098
01:53:15,240 --> 01:53:17,880
Speaker 1: one quote. The fact is that the police never investigate

2099
01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:21,080
Speaker 1: most sexual violence because most sexual violence goes and reported.

2100
01:53:21,160 --> 01:53:23,840
Speaker 1: According to the Rape and Incest National Network or RAIN,

2101
01:53:24,160 --> 01:53:26,920
Speaker 1: a little less than twenty of sexual assaults are reported

2102
01:53:26,960 --> 01:53:29,960
Speaker 1: to police, significantly less than other violent crimes. The reasons

2103
01:53:30,000 --> 01:53:32,560
Speaker 1: are myriad, but an often cited one is a distrust

2104
01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:36,280
Speaker 1: and fear of the police, which obviously is increased by militarization.

2105
01:53:36,680 --> 01:53:39,559
Speaker 1: One survey of sexual assault survivors found that of those

2106
01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:42,559
Speaker 1: who chose not to report, fiftcent feared that the police

2107
01:53:42,560 --> 01:53:44,640
Speaker 1: could not or would not do anything to help. An

2108
01:53:44,680 --> 01:53:47,400
Speaker 1: additional seven percent did not want to expose their attacker

2109
01:53:47,479 --> 01:53:50,679
Speaker 1: to the police. A two thousand eighteen study of the Austin,

2110
01:53:50,760 --> 01:53:54,200
Speaker 1: Texas Police Department found that officers tasked with investigating sexual

2111
01:53:54,240 --> 01:53:57,760
Speaker 1: assaults could not read lab reports on DNA evidence and

2112
01:53:57,920 --> 01:54:01,439
Speaker 1: often lacked a basic understanding of email anatomy. I have

2113
01:54:01,640 --> 01:54:05,040
Speaker 1: to google. I listen to fucking this, I have to

2114
01:54:05,320 --> 01:54:11,960
Speaker 1: google stuff like labia MAJORA one officer sex. That guy

2115
01:54:12,040 --> 01:54:16,000
Speaker 1: shouldn't be investigating sex cribes, shouldn't beating sex crib ever.

2116
01:54:17,320 --> 01:54:19,360
Speaker 1: But but rather than paying for him to learn what

2117
01:54:19,439 --> 01:54:22,559
Speaker 1: evolva is, big home, he got a bayonet. Oh, I'll

2118
01:54:22,600 --> 01:54:25,599
Speaker 1: bet he knows how to use a machine gun. All

2119
01:54:25,680 --> 01:54:29,400
Speaker 1: of the parts of a machine gun. So sometimes police

2120
01:54:29,439 --> 01:54:32,160
Speaker 1: failures to investigate sexual violence look like the result of

2121
01:54:32,200 --> 01:54:35,800
Speaker 1: not just stupidity, but of outright duplicity. One study of

2122
01:54:35,840 --> 01:54:38,240
Speaker 1: the New York Police Department discovered that it was knowingly

2123
01:54:38,400 --> 01:54:41,400
Speaker 1: under counting rapes and its public figures, using a deliberately

2124
01:54:41,440 --> 01:54:43,720
Speaker 1: strict definition of rape in order to shrink the number

2125
01:54:43,760 --> 01:54:46,280
Speaker 1: of reported cases in New York. An inquiry into the

2126
01:54:46,400 --> 01:54:49,720
Speaker 1: NYPD found that it's Special Victims Division to be grossly dysfunctional,

2127
01:54:49,760 --> 01:54:54,480
Speaker 1: with officers instructed to simply not investigate misdemeanor sexual assault cases.

2128
01:54:55,800 --> 01:54:57,440
Speaker 1: First of all, the fact that that's a thing, a

2129
01:54:57,520 --> 01:55:00,920
Speaker 1: misdemeanor sexual assault is already a problem. Now you're not

2130
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:04,400
Speaker 1: gonna investigate. Uh yeah, well, and like, this is actually

2131
01:55:04,480 --> 01:55:07,040
Speaker 1: kind of a pattern with the NYPD, and I assume

2132
01:55:07,080 --> 01:55:10,000
Speaker 1: other departments of like, so they're under counting rape and

2133
01:55:10,080 --> 01:55:12,200
Speaker 1: its public figures, so it seems like they solve more

2134
01:55:12,280 --> 01:55:14,440
Speaker 1: rapes than they do. There was a study that came

2135
01:55:14,480 --> 01:55:17,720
Speaker 1: out about how often the NYPD hits when they shoot

2136
01:55:17,760 --> 01:55:20,040
Speaker 1: people with their firearms, right, which is something you want

2137
01:55:20,040 --> 01:55:21,880
Speaker 1: to know, especially since the NYPD is considered to be

2138
01:55:21,920 --> 01:55:23,600
Speaker 1: one of the best trained police departments in the country,

2139
01:55:24,120 --> 01:55:26,160
Speaker 1: and the NYPD was very proud of the fact that

2140
01:55:26,200 --> 01:55:29,560
Speaker 1: they had a thirty percent hit rate um in gunfights, um,

2141
01:55:30,880 --> 01:55:32,480
Speaker 1: which is actually, like, I mean, I'm gonna be honest

2142
01:55:32,560 --> 01:55:34,920
Speaker 1: with you, people very rarely hit when they are shooting

2143
01:55:34,920 --> 01:55:36,640
Speaker 1: at each other in a gunfight because it's stressful. Is

2144
01:55:36,880 --> 01:55:39,080
Speaker 1: a lot of fucking business. It's very hard to be accurate,

2145
01:55:39,320 --> 01:55:41,560
Speaker 1: not to fit. But like that was their their number was, like,

2146
01:55:41,640 --> 01:55:43,320
Speaker 1: we hit thirty percent of the time when we just

2147
01:55:43,440 --> 01:55:46,560
Speaker 1: charge our weapons in like a a violent situation. But

2148
01:55:46,720 --> 01:55:49,680
Speaker 1: then people who analyze the NYPD data found that the

2149
01:55:49,800 --> 01:55:54,040
Speaker 1: NYPD was only hitting because they were including police officers

2150
01:55:54,080 --> 01:56:02,080
Speaker 1: sewic sides as one shot stops. Wait, they were, they

2151
01:56:02,120 --> 01:56:06,200
Speaker 1: were they were goofing their own numbers by including their suicides.

2152
01:56:06,320 --> 01:56:09,320
Speaker 1: Is like, I mean, yeah, they're they're basically saying, like

2153
01:56:09,400 --> 01:56:12,280
Speaker 1: that cop took a dangerous man off the streets himself.

2154
01:56:13,200 --> 01:56:18,160
Speaker 1: It counts, It counts. Yeah, It's pretty pretty wild. So

2155
01:56:19,160 --> 01:56:22,200
Speaker 1: conservative estimates suggest that US police have two d thousand

2156
01:56:22,280 --> 01:56:26,040
Speaker 1: untested rape kits in their possession nationwide. Rain's best estimate

2157
01:56:26,160 --> 01:56:28,960
Speaker 1: is that only about four point six percent of sexual

2158
01:56:28,960 --> 01:56:31,560
Speaker 1: assaults ever lead to an arrest, and less than one

2159
01:56:31,680 --> 01:56:35,160
Speaker 1: percent are ever referred to police by prosecutors. So if

2160
01:56:35,200 --> 01:56:37,240
Speaker 1: you are raped, and you refuse to talk to the cops,

2161
01:56:37,360 --> 01:56:39,680
Speaker 1: your odds of getting justice are more or less the

2162
01:56:39,760 --> 01:56:41,920
Speaker 1: same as someone who dials and nine one one right away.

2163
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:46,080
Speaker 1: She's And then, of course there's the fact that cops

2164
01:56:46,160 --> 01:56:49,560
Speaker 1: commit just a shipload of rape. Bowling Green State University,

2165
01:56:50,120 --> 01:56:51,840
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna get these I was gonna say,

2166
01:56:51,880 --> 01:56:53,480
Speaker 1: when you're talking about rape, I was like, they're not

2167
01:56:53,560 --> 01:56:55,520
Speaker 1: reporting them because they're doing it. They are doing a

2168
01:56:55,600 --> 01:56:58,520
Speaker 1: lot of them. Yeah. Bowling Green State University documented at

2169
01:56:58,560 --> 01:57:00,720
Speaker 1: least four undered in five rapes by the officers on

2170
01:57:00,840 --> 01:57:03,360
Speaker 1: duty between two thousand five and two thirteen. That is

2171
01:57:03,360 --> 01:57:06,400
Speaker 1: an offer an average of forty five per year. They

2172
01:57:06,440 --> 01:57:09,879
Speaker 1: also documented six and thirty six instances of forcible fondling.

2173
01:57:10,160 --> 01:57:12,160
Speaker 1: These numbers are only a fraction of the real total,

2174
01:57:12,240 --> 01:57:14,800
Speaker 1: since most sexual assaults are never reported and most rapists

2175
01:57:14,840 --> 01:57:17,240
Speaker 1: have at least five victims over the course of their career.

2176
01:57:17,720 --> 01:57:20,280
Speaker 1: The CNN article I found about this investigation into cop

2177
01:57:20,400 --> 01:57:22,240
Speaker 1: rape includes one of the most horrifying lines I have

2178
01:57:22,320 --> 01:57:25,120
Speaker 1: ever read. In an article, quote about half of the

2179
01:57:25,200 --> 01:57:28,400
Speaker 1: victims their children, researchers say Stenson, one of the researchers,

2180
01:57:28,440 --> 01:57:31,240
Speaker 1: has gotten accustomed to hearing his research assistants proclaimed during

2181
01:57:31,280 --> 01:57:34,640
Speaker 1: their work, Oh my god, it's another fourteen year old.

2182
01:57:35,560 --> 01:57:43,640
Speaker 1: Oh again, yeah, yeah, that I have a guttural physical

2183
01:57:44,400 --> 01:57:49,000
Speaker 1: response to that. Yeah. So. One of the first arguments

2184
01:57:49,000 --> 01:57:51,240
Speaker 1: you'll get against police abolition is again some version of

2185
01:57:51,280 --> 01:57:53,400
Speaker 1: the question, without cops, who's who you're gonna call if

2186
01:57:53,560 --> 01:57:56,120
Speaker 1: you know, rape or whatever, if X crime happens to you.

2187
01:57:56,520 --> 01:57:59,400
Speaker 1: The second argument is usually that even if the cops

2188
01:57:59,400 --> 01:58:03,200
Speaker 1: aren't necessary great at solving crimes, they prevent violence and

2189
01:58:03,320 --> 01:58:07,240
Speaker 1: crime by their presence in areas. And Alex Vitali, the

2190
01:58:07,280 --> 01:58:09,400
Speaker 1: author of the End of Policing, strikes back at that

2191
01:58:09,520 --> 01:58:12,520
Speaker 1: claim quote it is largely a liberal fantasy that the

2192
01:58:12,600 --> 01:58:15,040
Speaker 1: police exists to protect us from the bad guys. As

2193
01:58:15,080 --> 01:58:17,960
Speaker 1: the veteran police scholar David Bailey argues, the police do

2194
01:58:18,080 --> 01:58:20,400
Speaker 1: not prevent crime. This is one of the best kept

2195
01:58:20,480 --> 01:58:23,520
Speaker 1: secrets of modern life. Experts know it, the police know it,

2196
01:58:23,720 --> 01:58:25,839
Speaker 1: but the public does not know it. Yet. The police

2197
01:58:25,880 --> 01:58:28,240
Speaker 1: pretend that they are society's best defense against crime and

2198
01:58:28,280 --> 01:58:30,920
Speaker 1: continually argue that they if they are given more resources,

2199
01:58:31,040 --> 01:58:34,320
Speaker 1: especially personnel, they will be able to protect communities against crime.

2200
01:58:34,640 --> 01:58:37,560
Speaker 1: This is a myth, and he is very right when

2201
01:58:37,600 --> 01:58:40,160
Speaker 1: he says that a lot of data backs this argument up.

2202
01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:43,080
Speaker 1: The raw number of police in this country has declined

2203
01:58:43,120 --> 01:58:45,120
Speaker 1: for the last five years straight, and the rate of

2204
01:58:45,160 --> 01:58:48,640
Speaker 1: police officers per one thousand residents in the United States

2205
01:58:48,840 --> 01:58:51,160
Speaker 1: has been dropping for twenty years. You know what else

2206
01:58:51,160 --> 01:58:54,880
Speaker 1: has been dropping for twenty years? Prop? What the crime rate?

2207
01:58:55,400 --> 01:58:59,200
Speaker 1: The crime rate? Yeah, the police lost twenty three thousand

2208
01:58:59,320 --> 01:59:02,760
Speaker 1: net officers nationwide from two thousand and sixteen, with no

2209
01:59:02,880 --> 01:59:05,960
Speaker 1: corresponding surgeon crime. Now, despite the fact that crime has

2210
01:59:06,040 --> 01:59:09,080
Speaker 1: dropped saidly for twenty years, most Americans believe that crime

2211
01:59:09,160 --> 01:59:13,160
Speaker 1: rates have increased throughout their lifetimes. Why are people like that?

2212
01:59:13,560 --> 01:59:17,160
Speaker 1: Why are people like that? I have an answer for you, prop, Yeah,

2213
01:59:17,400 --> 01:59:19,280
Speaker 1: I have a fucking answer for you. Are you ready

2214
01:59:19,320 --> 01:59:23,120
Speaker 1: for this? Are you ready to talk about Hollywood again? Yes?

2215
01:59:24,360 --> 01:59:31,520
Speaker 1: Because yeah a lot. Yeah. You know, like when you're like, okay,

2216
01:59:31,600 --> 01:59:37,360
Speaker 1: you know what you know what prevents crime jobs? Yeah? Resources,

2217
01:59:37,920 --> 01:59:42,080
Speaker 1: It's just easy giving people heroin if they're addicted, you know,

2218
01:59:42,760 --> 01:59:46,120
Speaker 1: maybe maybe laws that shouldn't be laws, like and making

2219
01:59:46,160 --> 01:59:48,000
Speaker 1: sure that the person handing them that heroin says, Hey,

2220
01:59:48,280 --> 01:59:50,720
Speaker 1: there's some doctors or some professionals over here if you

2221
01:59:50,760 --> 01:59:53,000
Speaker 1: want to stop this, like we can. We can help

2222
01:59:53,080 --> 01:59:55,440
Speaker 1: you out with this, but nobody's gonna fuck you up

2223
01:59:55,480 --> 01:59:58,160
Speaker 1: for doing this. Here's a couch. Yeah. It turns out

2224
01:59:58,200 --> 02:00:03,720
Speaker 1: that actually objectively works better and every single place that works. Yeah. Um.

2225
02:00:03,960 --> 02:00:07,360
Speaker 1: So the answer to why people think that police are

2226
02:00:07,400 --> 02:00:10,120
Speaker 1: just absolutely critical and holding back a tide of violence

2227
02:00:10,240 --> 02:00:11,800
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with the TV show Dragnet

2228
02:00:11,920 --> 02:00:14,600
Speaker 1: and its descendants. In the fall of two thousand nineteen,

2229
02:00:14,720 --> 02:00:18,360
Speaker 1: more than six percent of primetime dramas on TV were

2230
02:00:18,400 --> 02:00:23,760
Speaker 1: about police, crime and the legal system. Many of these shows,

2231
02:00:23,920 --> 02:00:26,440
Speaker 1: like Cops and Live p D worked directly with law

2232
02:00:26,520 --> 02:00:29,800
Speaker 1: enforcement and receive approval from departments for every episode they aired,

2233
02:00:29,960 --> 02:00:32,720
Speaker 1: the same way Dragnet did. That's Cops. Cops got like

2234
02:00:32,760 --> 02:00:35,360
Speaker 1: the the cops sign off on every episode of Cops,

2235
02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:39,040
Speaker 1: which is why that show doesn't show. There's a wonderful

2236
02:00:39,080 --> 02:00:41,280
Speaker 1: podcast you should all listen to after this called Running

2237
02:00:41,320 --> 02:00:43,560
Speaker 1: from Cops um and it it is a show, a

2238
02:00:43,600 --> 02:00:46,320
Speaker 1: podcast about the TV show Cops and about live TV

2239
02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:48,920
Speaker 1: And it's one of the things that they showcases in

2240
02:00:48,960 --> 02:00:51,839
Speaker 1: the very first episode of Cops, like they got access

2241
02:00:51,920 --> 02:00:55,680
Speaker 1: to the unaired footage that was shot for that episode

2242
02:00:55,720 --> 02:00:58,120
Speaker 1: of Cops, and like it showed that in the in

2243
02:00:58,200 --> 02:01:00,520
Speaker 1: this episode of Cops, like it showed the like busting

2244
02:01:00,600 --> 02:01:02,720
Speaker 1: this like family and like taking the kid, and like

2245
02:01:02,840 --> 02:01:04,680
Speaker 1: the the female officer who took the kid was like,

2246
02:01:04,720 --> 02:01:06,280
Speaker 1: it's okay, we're gonna get you to a safe place tonight.

2247
02:01:06,280 --> 02:01:08,160
Speaker 1: You're gonna have an ice warm bed and toys and stuff.

2248
02:01:08,680 --> 02:01:11,320
Speaker 1: And in the part that wasn't aired, she took that

2249
02:01:11,920 --> 02:01:13,960
Speaker 1: child to like the place that she was supposed to

2250
02:01:14,040 --> 02:01:16,880
Speaker 1: take this kid after arresting the kid's parents and they

2251
02:01:16,960 --> 02:01:19,080
Speaker 1: just put the kid in basically a cell because they

2252
02:01:19,080 --> 02:01:20,600
Speaker 1: didn't have a better or any toys. And like the

2253
02:01:20,720 --> 02:01:23,840
Speaker 1: lady cop is like in tears and like enraged when

2254
02:01:23,880 --> 02:01:26,760
Speaker 1: she realizes how fucked up the situation is. That didn't

2255
02:01:26,760 --> 02:01:32,160
Speaker 1: aar on Cops. Like no, um, so again, watch Running

2256
02:01:32,200 --> 02:01:34,240
Speaker 1: from Cops. It's a great or listen to it. It's

2257
02:01:34,240 --> 02:01:36,840
Speaker 1: a great fucking podcast. Um. But one of the things

2258
02:01:36,920 --> 02:01:39,840
Speaker 1: they did on Running from Cops is they tried to analyze,

2259
02:01:41,000 --> 02:01:44,520
Speaker 1: like they watched eight episodes of the show, um and

2260
02:01:44,640 --> 02:01:47,480
Speaker 1: like analyzed the race of all of the people involved, analyzed,

2261
02:01:47,640 --> 02:01:49,960
Speaker 1: um the kind of crimes they're arrested for, and like

2262
02:01:50,280 --> 02:01:53,880
Speaker 1: put together data on like the world as presented by

2263
02:01:54,000 --> 02:01:56,640
Speaker 1: Cops as opposed to the actual world, and how crime

2264
02:01:56,640 --> 02:01:59,000
Speaker 1: actually works in our real world. Um, and I'm gonna

2265
02:01:59,040 --> 02:02:01,480
Speaker 1: quote from from an article written by one of the

2266
02:02:01,800 --> 02:02:05,600
Speaker 1: guys behind Running from Cops. Now, what we discovered was that,

2267
02:02:05,760 --> 02:02:09,080
Speaker 1: contrary to early press predictions, the world portrayed on Cops

2268
02:02:09,240 --> 02:02:11,640
Speaker 1: is not like the real world. There are about four

2269
02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:14,400
Speaker 1: times more violent crimes and cops than in reality, and

2270
02:02:14,560 --> 02:02:17,200
Speaker 1: three times more drug arrests and about ten times more

2271
02:02:17,320 --> 02:02:19,800
Speaker 1: arrests for sex work. The cops on the show are also,

2272
02:02:19,880 --> 02:02:23,520
Speaker 1: statistically speaking, extremely good at their jobs. Segments on the

2273
02:02:23,600 --> 02:02:25,960
Speaker 1: show in and arrest eighty four point four percent of

2274
02:02:26,040 --> 02:02:28,600
Speaker 1: the time. That number reflects a change over time from

2275
02:02:29,560 --> 02:02:33,480
Speaker 1: back in ninete to and the most recent season. In

2276
02:02:33,600 --> 02:02:37,000
Speaker 1: Cops World, law enforcement officers are so effective it's basically

2277
02:02:37,040 --> 02:02:40,120
Speaker 1: a given that a crime will end in an arrest. Now,

2278
02:02:41,960 --> 02:02:44,680
Speaker 1: that's interesting to me. Um, there's a lot that's interesting

2279
02:02:44,720 --> 02:02:46,240
Speaker 1: to me, including Like, one of the things they find

2280
02:02:46,280 --> 02:02:49,560
Speaker 1: in the show is that early on Cops like showed

2281
02:02:49,600 --> 02:02:52,000
Speaker 1: a hell of a lot more non white people getting arrested,

2282
02:02:52,120 --> 02:02:54,520
Speaker 1: and like the double a CP complained and Cops fixed

2283
02:02:54,560 --> 02:02:57,120
Speaker 1: the problem and switched over to showing mostly white criminals.

2284
02:02:57,320 --> 02:03:00,240
Speaker 1: And part of yeah, part of how they did it

2285
02:03:00,320 --> 02:03:05,360
Speaker 1: was by just filming in Portland, Oregon. That's hilarious. I

2286
02:03:05,400 --> 02:03:08,800
Speaker 1: didn't know that. Yeah, but I didn't know, Like, wow,

2287
02:03:08,960 --> 02:03:13,960
Speaker 1: it seems the black people no more y. Yeah, they did.

2288
02:03:14,160 --> 02:03:17,200
Speaker 1: They did fix that particular problem. Um and you know,

2289
02:03:17,240 --> 02:03:19,040
Speaker 1: I gotta give it to him. Moving to Portland's a

2290
02:03:19,040 --> 02:03:25,280
Speaker 1: smart way to do that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So most

2291
02:03:25,400 --> 02:03:27,840
Speaker 1: people who even like most fans of Cops williganala is

2292
02:03:27,880 --> 02:03:29,879
Speaker 1: that the show has always been, you know, kind of trashy,

2293
02:03:30,560 --> 02:03:33,880
Speaker 1: but even lea yeah, and and like you would have

2294
02:03:33,920 --> 02:03:35,800
Speaker 1: found a lot more people who'd be willing to argue

2295
02:03:35,800 --> 02:03:39,120
Speaker 1: that Cops was harmful back before this most recent uprising.

2296
02:03:39,440 --> 02:03:41,000
Speaker 1: Then you would get to argue that there was a

2297
02:03:41,080 --> 02:03:43,880
Speaker 1: harm and shows like for example, Law and Order. But

2298
02:03:43,960 --> 02:03:46,560
Speaker 1: even shows like Law and Order contribute to our distorted

2299
02:03:46,600 --> 02:03:48,920
Speaker 1: cultural beliefs about the police. Now, obviously Law and Order

2300
02:03:49,320 --> 02:03:51,760
Speaker 1: doesn't push the militarized police angle. This is Law and

2301
02:03:51,840 --> 02:03:54,760
Speaker 1: Orders very much like a tribute to like Volmer's idea

2302
02:03:54,840 --> 02:03:58,840
Speaker 1: of the police as scientists. Um. Yeah, but it's still

2303
02:03:58,960 --> 02:04:01,600
Speaker 1: has a negative effect at Robert Thompson, a professor at

2304
02:04:01,640 --> 02:04:04,840
Speaker 1: Syracuse University who studies television and pop culture, noted in

2305
02:04:04,920 --> 02:04:07,440
Speaker 1: an interview with a Desiree News, quote, the very thing

2306
02:04:07,480 --> 02:04:09,440
Speaker 1: that keeps law and order going is the idea that

2307
02:04:09,480 --> 02:04:12,760
Speaker 1: they keep showing this efficient process over and over. Law

2308
02:04:12,840 --> 02:04:15,280
Speaker 1: and order gives, at least in part, some feel for

2309
02:04:15,400 --> 02:04:19,200
Speaker 1: this being an efficiently well oiled machine. And it just isn't.

2310
02:04:19,240 --> 02:04:21,640
Speaker 1: We already went through the statistics of how few crimes

2311
02:04:21,680 --> 02:04:26,000
Speaker 1: the police solved, because again, most of these scientific policing

2312
02:04:26,040 --> 02:04:29,120
Speaker 1: methods don't work nearly as well as as there they

2313
02:04:29,560 --> 02:04:33,920
Speaker 1: TV portrays them as yeah now. Color of Change released

2314
02:04:33,960 --> 02:04:36,000
Speaker 1: a report in January of this year based on a

2315
02:04:36,040 --> 02:04:39,560
Speaker 1: study of twenty six scripted crime dramas. It found that quote,

2316
02:04:39,840 --> 02:04:42,840
Speaker 1: these shows rendered racism invisible and dismissed any need for

2317
02:04:42,920 --> 02:04:46,600
Speaker 1: police accountability. They made a legal destructive and racist practices

2318
02:04:46,640 --> 02:04:50,760
Speaker 1: within the criminal justice system seem acceptable, justifiable, and necessary,

2319
02:04:51,120 --> 02:04:54,680
Speaker 1: even heroic. The study noted that of the writers for

2320
02:04:54,720 --> 02:04:58,600
Speaker 1: these shows were white men, only nine percent were black. Now,

2321
02:04:59,160 --> 02:05:02,040
Speaker 1: in the mediate aftermath of George Floyd's murder and this

2322
02:05:02,120 --> 02:05:05,120
Speaker 1: whole uprising thing, both Cops and Life p D were canceled,

2323
02:05:05,200 --> 02:05:07,640
Speaker 1: and I I really think most people don't get what

2324
02:05:07,680 --> 02:05:09,680
Speaker 1: a big victory it is to have fucking cops off

2325
02:05:09,720 --> 02:05:13,480
Speaker 1: the air. Um. Yeah, I think they'll understand a little

2326
02:05:13,480 --> 02:05:15,960
Speaker 1: better after this. It does seem likely that other police

2327
02:05:15,960 --> 02:05:18,600
Speaker 1: procedurals will wind up dying out rather soon. And everyone

2328
02:05:18,720 --> 02:05:21,720
Speaker 1: has their favorite We've all we've all enjoyed some cop dramas,

2329
02:05:22,160 --> 02:05:25,200
Speaker 1: um I and I and I will say, I don't

2330
02:05:25,280 --> 02:05:27,760
Speaker 1: think that the wire is a part of the problem.

2331
02:05:27,800 --> 02:05:29,200
Speaker 1: I think they actually did a real good job of

2332
02:05:29,320 --> 02:05:32,480
Speaker 1: making everybody see, like Jesus Christ, policing's fucked. It just

2333
02:05:32,720 --> 02:05:36,080
Speaker 1: wasn't enough. Yeah. Um, there's a lot of you know,

2334
02:05:36,320 --> 02:05:38,120
Speaker 1: Brooklyn nine nine. I know a lot of people who

2335
02:05:38,160 --> 02:05:39,760
Speaker 1: love Brooklyn nine nine, and I know a lot of

2336
02:05:39,840 --> 02:05:42,720
Speaker 1: Brooklyn nine fans are apprehensive and like a little bit

2337
02:05:42,720 --> 02:05:44,760
Speaker 1: guilty right now and wondering, like, is there a way

2338
02:05:44,800 --> 02:05:46,440
Speaker 1: to like fix this show, to make it like not

2339
02:05:46,600 --> 02:05:49,160
Speaker 1: contribute to the problem, and like, you know, the show does.

2340
02:05:49,600 --> 02:05:51,680
Speaker 1: The show does has leaned in at a few points

2341
02:05:51,720 --> 02:05:53,720
Speaker 1: to some problems in policing in a way that most

2342
02:05:53,760 --> 02:05:57,560
Speaker 1: police dramas don't. Um. And it is one of those

2343
02:05:57,600 --> 02:06:01,120
Speaker 1: things where like, I think a lot of oaks will

2344
02:06:01,240 --> 02:06:03,600
Speaker 1: argue that, like there's a room for escapism and that

2345
02:06:03,720 --> 02:06:06,800
Speaker 1: this stuff isn't really harmful, but but it it just is.

2346
02:06:07,000 --> 02:06:09,720
Speaker 1: There is a lot of documentation about how it is harmful.

2347
02:06:09,760 --> 02:06:11,960
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote from just one piece of this documentation,

2348
02:06:12,000 --> 02:06:15,800
Speaker 1: an article in Pacific Standard magazine quote. Crime dramas are

2349
02:06:15,920 --> 02:06:18,680
Speaker 1: consistently ranked among the most watched shows by Nielsen Media,

2350
02:06:18,720 --> 02:06:21,320
Speaker 1: according to the authors. What's more, as many as forty

2351
02:06:21,360 --> 02:06:24,560
Speaker 1: percent of Americans believe that such shows are somewhat or

2352
02:06:24,760 --> 02:06:27,520
Speaker 1: very true to real life. So to find out how

2353
02:06:27,600 --> 02:06:30,760
Speaker 1: the simplistic portrayal of police officers on television might influence

2354
02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:34,040
Speaker 1: public opinion of the profession, researchers from St. John Fisher

2355
02:06:34,120 --> 02:06:36,880
Speaker 1: College and Wayne State University first had to analyze how

2356
02:06:36,960 --> 02:06:40,560
Speaker 1: popular crime shows portray police work. The researchers also surveyed

2357
02:06:40,600 --> 02:06:43,920
Speaker 1: a nationally representative sample of over two thousand Americans. They

2358
02:06:43,960 --> 02:06:46,360
Speaker 1: found that those who watched crime shows view police as

2359
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:50,480
Speaker 1: better behaved, more successful at combating crime, and relatively responsible

2360
02:06:50,520 --> 02:06:54,480
Speaker 1: in their use of force than those who don't. Yes,

2361
02:06:55,120 --> 02:06:56,760
Speaker 1: if you want to know why there's so many back

2362
02:06:56,840 --> 02:06:59,320
Speaker 1: the blue folks. It's these shows that we all have

2363
02:06:59,520 --> 02:07:01,960
Speaker 1: some we in joy, but they're part of the problem.

2364
02:07:02,480 --> 02:07:04,920
Speaker 1: You may just gonna say the one for me is first,

2365
02:07:06,600 --> 02:07:08,800
Speaker 1: that's the one that gets me the most because it

2366
02:07:08,960 --> 02:07:14,160
Speaker 1: always takes place in like Memphis, in the deepest of

2367
02:07:14,200 --> 02:07:17,080
Speaker 1: the Section eight projects, and the way that like I know,

2368
02:07:17,200 --> 02:07:20,440
Speaker 1: our people are portrayed where it's like, again, it's not

2369
02:07:20,520 --> 02:07:24,320
Speaker 1: like crime don't exist, but this the way that you're

2370
02:07:24,360 --> 02:07:29,840
Speaker 1: painting this is so basic, so binary, and so easy

2371
02:07:29,960 --> 02:07:31,880
Speaker 1: that like I tried to watch it. I tried to

2372
02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:33,400
Speaker 1: get into it because I had a friend that liked it,

2373
02:07:33,760 --> 02:07:35,120
Speaker 1: So I tried to get into it, and I was

2374
02:07:35,160 --> 02:07:37,760
Speaker 1: like I can't, I can't. I can't even finish this.

2375
02:07:40,200 --> 02:07:42,720
Speaker 1: I don't have anything else. Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's

2376
02:07:43,240 --> 02:07:49,400
Speaker 1: like it's just hurtful. It's really hurt because you know

2377
02:07:49,560 --> 02:07:51,760
Speaker 1: it's not real. You know what I'm saying, But you're

2378
02:07:51,800 --> 02:07:55,880
Speaker 1: telling me this is like a uh reality show and

2379
02:07:56,000 --> 02:08:00,800
Speaker 1: it's not real, And like just given by few Americans

2380
02:08:00,840 --> 02:08:04,000
Speaker 1: have an experience with violent crime, and how even how

2381
02:08:04,040 --> 02:08:07,240
Speaker 1: an even smaller chunk of those Americans actually have the

2382
02:08:07,280 --> 02:08:10,040
Speaker 1: police do something about the thing that they suffer. That's

2383
02:08:10,040 --> 02:08:14,000
Speaker 1: a tiny fraction of us. When people say what about

2384
02:08:14,320 --> 02:08:15,840
Speaker 1: you know, and then they list their things that we

2385
02:08:15,920 --> 02:08:18,400
Speaker 1: need the police for, most of them aren't thinking about

2386
02:08:18,440 --> 02:08:20,200
Speaker 1: a real thing that's happened to them, our friend. They're

2387
02:08:20,200 --> 02:08:22,160
Speaker 1: thinking about something they saw on TV like that that

2388
02:08:22,360 --> 02:08:24,560
Speaker 1: like like they wouldn't say that, but that's what's actually

2389
02:08:24,640 --> 02:08:29,800
Speaker 1: going on. Um. Yes, yeah. The militarization of US police

2390
02:08:30,000 --> 02:08:32,840
Speaker 1: started from a mix of fear over specific incidents of

2391
02:08:32,880 --> 02:08:36,600
Speaker 1: shocking violence uh and and cruel calculus by soulless politicians.

2392
02:08:36,880 --> 02:08:38,680
Speaker 1: But part of why it has been allowed to continue

2393
02:08:38,720 --> 02:08:41,560
Speaker 1: for so long, and why American voters traditionally react very

2394
02:08:41,640 --> 02:08:44,160
Speaker 1: negatively to the idea of cutting police funds, is that

2395
02:08:44,320 --> 02:08:47,240
Speaker 1: decades of Hollywood depictions of law enforcement have convinced many

2396
02:08:47,320 --> 02:08:50,200
Speaker 1: of us that the police are completely necessary to save

2397
02:08:50,280 --> 02:08:53,480
Speaker 1: us from a constant, imminent threat of violence and barbarism.

2398
02:08:53,800 --> 02:08:56,800
Speaker 1: The weight of pro cop cultural inertia is only increased

2399
02:08:57,360 --> 02:08:59,160
Speaker 1: by the fact that a decent number of the seven

2400
02:08:59,840 --> 02:09:02,920
Speaker 1: cops in our country do useful in good things from

2401
02:09:02,960 --> 02:09:05,240
Speaker 1: time to time, like that there are like most cops

2402
02:09:05,280 --> 02:09:06,840
Speaker 1: on the force will have a period where that even

2403
02:09:06,880 --> 02:09:09,200
Speaker 1: cops who are critical later will it will be able

2404
02:09:09,200 --> 02:09:11,600
Speaker 1: to point to individual things they did that we're good. Um,

2405
02:09:11,760 --> 02:09:13,880
Speaker 1: the question is not whether or not cops ever do

2406
02:09:14,040 --> 02:09:16,080
Speaker 1: things that are good. It's whether or not it's worth

2407
02:09:16,200 --> 02:09:18,960
Speaker 1: the cost, whether or not the benefits we gain from

2408
02:09:19,000 --> 02:09:21,800
Speaker 1: having police Number one can be gained from something that's

2409
02:09:21,840 --> 02:09:24,520
Speaker 1: not the police, and number two are worth the price

2410
02:09:24,680 --> 02:09:27,640
Speaker 1: of having police. Hollywood has spent a lot of time

2411
02:09:27,680 --> 02:09:29,160
Speaker 1: and made a lot of money showing us what we

2412
02:09:29,320 --> 02:09:32,120
Speaker 1: get from law enforcement at its best, and again the

2413
02:09:32,160 --> 02:09:34,360
Speaker 1: statistics show that they are lying about what we get

2414
02:09:34,400 --> 02:09:37,800
Speaker 1: from law enforcement. So perhaps we should spend more time

2415
02:09:37,880 --> 02:09:41,360
Speaker 1: as a culture thinking about what law enforcement costs us.

2416
02:09:41,520 --> 02:09:44,000
Speaker 1: And I think my best way of doing this is

2417
02:09:44,040 --> 02:09:47,480
Speaker 1: always an anecdotal example, you know, because we do talk

2418
02:09:47,480 --> 02:09:49,480
Speaker 1: about the statistics. We talked about the broad problem. The

2419
02:09:49,480 --> 02:09:51,320
Speaker 1: broad The broad problem is that a thousand people a

2420
02:09:51,440 --> 02:09:53,840
Speaker 1: year are killed by US police, many of them in

2421
02:09:53,920 --> 02:09:57,160
Speaker 1: shady circumstances, many of them, most of them without real

2422
02:09:57,280 --> 02:09:59,920
Speaker 1: investigations that are are open to the public taking play.

2423
02:10:00,400 --> 02:10:03,440
Speaker 1: And that that number is, for example, more than die

2424
02:10:03,560 --> 02:10:06,560
Speaker 1: have died in every school shooting in American history. Every year,

2425
02:10:06,600 --> 02:10:09,280
Speaker 1: the police kill more people than school shooters have ever killed,

2426
02:10:09,560 --> 02:10:12,880
Speaker 1: Like yeah, like like people like people flip out about

2427
02:10:12,880 --> 02:10:15,000
Speaker 1: a R fifteens And I'm not saying you're wrong to

2428
02:10:15,120 --> 02:10:18,640
Speaker 1: be scared or frightened about the easy availability of air fifteens.

2429
02:10:18,920 --> 02:10:21,600
Speaker 1: Like four Americans every year are killed by long guns

2430
02:10:21,680 --> 02:10:24,920
Speaker 1: that are air fifteens are similar weapons the police kill

2431
02:10:24,960 --> 02:10:27,680
Speaker 1: a thousand. You're not saying one's not not saying one's

2432
02:10:27,720 --> 02:10:29,800
Speaker 1: not a problem, but like does it suck? Yeah, Well

2433
02:10:30,000 --> 02:10:34,720
Speaker 1: if we're gonna yeah anyway, it's it's an issue. Um.

2434
02:10:34,920 --> 02:10:37,000
Speaker 1: But I think that when it comes to getting people

2435
02:10:37,080 --> 02:10:42,440
Speaker 1: to really emotionally understand the cost of police, individual horrific

2436
02:10:42,520 --> 02:10:46,160
Speaker 1: anecdotes are are the thing that drives it home to people. Um,

2437
02:10:46,240 --> 02:10:48,720
Speaker 1: And that's certainly what the police do. Individual anecdotes of

2438
02:10:48,760 --> 02:10:50,800
Speaker 1: cops doing good to talk about why we need them.

2439
02:10:50,840 --> 02:10:52,480
Speaker 1: So we might as well respond in kind. And I'm

2440
02:10:52,520 --> 02:10:54,880
Speaker 1: going to respond in kind by talking about something that

2441
02:10:54,960 --> 02:11:00,080
Speaker 1: happened in Philadelphia in nineteen five, the move bombing. It's so,

2442
02:11:01,400 --> 02:11:05,240
Speaker 1: have you heard of the move bombing? I have? Yeah, Yeah,

2443
02:11:05,400 --> 02:11:09,120
Speaker 1: I had a feeling. Yeah. Move was a strange organization

2444
02:11:09,160 --> 02:11:10,320
Speaker 1: that we're not going to get into a lot of

2445
02:11:10,360 --> 02:11:12,839
Speaker 1: detail about. It was founded by a guy named John Africa,

2446
02:11:12,920 --> 02:11:15,160
Speaker 1: and every member of move took on Africa as a surname.

2447
02:11:15,200 --> 02:11:17,240
Speaker 1: They were not all black, actually it was a mixed

2448
02:11:17,320 --> 02:11:21,320
Speaker 1: race organization. There were hard to pin down ideologically, but

2449
02:11:21,320 --> 02:11:23,160
Speaker 1: it would be fair to say that they expressed a

2450
02:11:23,320 --> 02:11:26,440
Speaker 1: deep hatred of technology. Um They did some like protests

2451
02:11:26,480 --> 02:11:29,120
Speaker 1: at zoos against animal cruelty, They ate natural diet. They

2452
02:11:29,240 --> 02:11:31,680
Speaker 1: They're like a hard group to pin down. They did

2453
02:11:31,760 --> 02:11:34,720
Speaker 1: a lot of shouting into bullhorns though. Um So. The

2454
02:11:34,840 --> 02:11:38,520
Speaker 1: organization briefly wound up squatting in Powellton Village in West Philly.

2455
02:11:38,720 --> 02:11:41,120
Speaker 1: Um And they kind of fortified a house they were

2456
02:11:41,120 --> 02:11:43,160
Speaker 1: squatting in there, and they they've piste off a lot

2457
02:11:43,200 --> 02:11:46,240
Speaker 1: of their neighbors by regularly brandishing firearms and shouting at

2458
02:11:46,240 --> 02:11:49,000
Speaker 1: the neighborhood through a megaphone. They eventually were raided by

2459
02:11:49,000 --> 02:11:51,440
Speaker 1: the FEDS, who found a bunch of guns and pipe bombs.

2460
02:11:52,040 --> 02:11:55,360
Speaker 1: Police barricaded several blocks around the compound and basically laid

2461
02:11:55,440 --> 02:11:57,800
Speaker 1: siege to it for fifty six days. This all came

2462
02:11:57,880 --> 02:12:00,560
Speaker 1: to ahead when the cops moved into forcibly evict them.

2463
02:12:00,840 --> 02:12:02,800
Speaker 1: There was a gun battle and a cop was killed,

2464
02:12:02,840 --> 02:12:06,280
Speaker 1: while sixteen other officers and firefighters were injured. Eventually, the

2465
02:12:06,360 --> 02:12:08,960
Speaker 1: MOVE people all surrendered and the cops beat the ever

2466
02:12:09,120 --> 02:12:10,880
Speaker 1: loving ship out of one of them, a guy who

2467
02:12:10,920 --> 02:12:12,720
Speaker 1: had not taken part in the gunfight, but who had

2468
02:12:12,760 --> 02:12:15,000
Speaker 1: been on the bullhorn heckling them. They just beat the

2469
02:12:15,080 --> 02:12:18,240
Speaker 1: piss out of this kid in broad daylight. Um Nine

2470
02:12:18,440 --> 02:12:21,040
Speaker 1: of the members of Move were convicted of third degree

2471
02:12:21,360 --> 02:12:24,280
Speaker 1: murder and sent to prison after this, so Move was

2472
02:12:24,360 --> 02:12:27,400
Speaker 1: not taken out though as an organization continued. They moved

2473
02:12:27,480 --> 02:12:29,839
Speaker 1: on and set up a new base on Osage Avenue,

2474
02:12:29,880 --> 02:12:32,800
Speaker 1: which was a middle class black neighborhood that was doing

2475
02:12:32,880 --> 02:12:35,560
Speaker 1: really well. It's kind of like a Black Wall Street situation, right,

2476
02:12:35,640 --> 02:12:38,600
Speaker 1: Like Osage Avenue is like doing well, and Move moves

2477
02:12:38,640 --> 02:12:41,960
Speaker 1: in and they were out there welcome pretty quickly because

2478
02:12:42,000 --> 02:12:44,640
Speaker 1: they again turned their house into a fortified bunker, like

2479
02:12:44,680 --> 02:12:47,120
Speaker 1: they build a literal bunker on top. They yelled at

2480
02:12:47,160 --> 02:12:50,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people through bullhorns. They're not physically harming people,

2481
02:12:50,040 --> 02:12:52,320
Speaker 1: but they're like kind of annoying people, and like people

2482
02:12:52,360 --> 02:12:54,480
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood don't know what to do, but called

2483
02:12:54,560 --> 02:12:57,280
Speaker 1: the city, and the city calls the police, and the

2484
02:12:57,360 --> 02:13:00,240
Speaker 1: police do what the police do, which is s late

2485
02:13:00,320 --> 02:13:05,520
Speaker 1: the situation into another siege. In May, uh, Philadelphia brings

2486
02:13:05,560 --> 02:13:08,800
Speaker 1: in five militarized officers armed with flak jacket, swat gear,

2487
02:13:08,880 --> 02:13:11,920
Speaker 1: fifty caliber machine guns, and an anti tank rifle. The

2488
02:13:12,000 --> 02:13:14,400
Speaker 1: cops move in to serve arrest warrants on folks that

2489
02:13:14,480 --> 02:13:16,600
Speaker 1: they believe were living in the compound, and they estimated

2490
02:13:16,680 --> 02:13:20,840
Speaker 1: six adults and twelve children were inside. The movers opened

2491
02:13:20,920 --> 02:13:24,160
Speaker 1: fire on these militarized police, and the police responded with

2492
02:13:24,320 --> 02:13:28,240
Speaker 1: just an insane torrent of wild gun fire, pouring ten

2493
02:13:28,400 --> 02:13:32,600
Speaker 1: thousand rounds into the building in ninety minutes. Now, thankfully,

2494
02:13:32,640 --> 02:13:35,400
Speaker 1: the police had evacuated most of the neighborhood, telling everyone

2495
02:13:35,440 --> 02:13:37,560
Speaker 1: they'd be able to come back home quickly. But they're

2496
02:13:37,600 --> 02:13:41,360
Speaker 1: just firing wildly into the neighborhood. Swat team's next try

2497
02:13:41,400 --> 02:13:43,480
Speaker 1: blowing holes in the sides of the building, but nothing

2498
02:13:43,560 --> 02:13:45,680
Speaker 1: worked to breach the compound because the move folks had

2499
02:13:45,840 --> 02:13:48,720
Speaker 1: really done a good job before. Yeah, they were good

2500
02:13:48,760 --> 02:13:51,880
Speaker 1: at this ship. Um. The police began lobbying Mayor Good,

2501
02:13:52,000 --> 02:13:54,280
Speaker 1: the first black mayor of Philadelphia, for the go ahead

2502
02:13:54,360 --> 02:13:57,200
Speaker 1: to drop a bomb they built on the compound, and

2503
02:13:57,320 --> 02:14:00,840
Speaker 1: after hours of ferocious gunfire. The mayor greed, so the

2504
02:14:00,920 --> 02:14:05,680
Speaker 1: police drop a bomb on this building in Philadelphia, an

2505
02:14:05,680 --> 02:14:09,480
Speaker 1: Osage Avenue, and it fails to crack the bunker that

2506
02:14:09,600 --> 02:14:11,800
Speaker 1: Move had built atop their house, and it doesn't in

2507
02:14:11,920 --> 02:14:14,600
Speaker 1: the stalemate, but it did start a fire that spread

2508
02:14:14,720 --> 02:14:17,440
Speaker 1: very quickly to the roofs of other homes clustered around

2509
02:14:17,520 --> 02:14:21,280
Speaker 1: the Move building. The police commissioner ordered firefighters to stand down,

2510
02:14:21,600 --> 02:14:24,440
Speaker 1: later telling the city commission I communicated that I would

2511
02:14:24,480 --> 02:14:27,240
Speaker 1: like to let the fire burn. In forty five minutes,

2512
02:14:27,520 --> 02:14:29,680
Speaker 1: three more homes on the black were burning. Then the

2513
02:14:29,760 --> 02:14:32,480
Speaker 1: roof of the Move house collapsed. The police did not

2514
02:14:32,600 --> 02:14:35,440
Speaker 1: allow firefighters in until more than ninety minutes had passed

2515
02:14:35,480 --> 02:14:38,160
Speaker 1: and the entire north side of Osage Avenue was burning.

2516
02:14:38,360 --> 02:14:40,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote now from an NPR article on what

2517
02:14:40,640 --> 02:14:44,920
Speaker 1: happened next. Philadelphia streets are famously narrow, which made it

2518
02:14:45,000 --> 02:14:46,920
Speaker 1: easy for the fire to leap from burning trees on

2519
02:14:46,960 --> 02:14:49,160
Speaker 1: the north side to even more homes on the south side.

2520
02:14:49,400 --> 02:14:51,720
Speaker 1: From there, the flames spilled over to the homes behind

2521
02:14:51,840 --> 02:14:54,880
Speaker 1: six two to one Ossage to Pine Street. By evening,

2522
02:14:55,000 --> 02:14:58,200
Speaker 1: three rows of homes were completely on fire, a conflagration

2523
02:14:58,320 --> 02:15:00,400
Speaker 1: so large that the flames could be seen from planes

2524
02:15:00,480 --> 02:15:03,960
Speaker 1: landing at Philadelphia International Airport more than six miles away.

2525
02:15:04,240 --> 02:15:06,760
Speaker 1: The smoke was visible across the city. By the time

2526
02:15:06,840 --> 02:15:09,760
Speaker 1: firefighters brought the fire under control a little before midnight,

2527
02:15:10,120 --> 02:15:13,440
Speaker 1: sixty houses on the once tidy block had been completely destroyed.

2528
02:15:13,640 --> 02:15:16,800
Speaker 1: Two and fifty people were suddenly shockingly without homes. It

2529
02:15:17,000 --> 02:15:19,680
Speaker 1: was the worst residential fire in the city's history. In

2530
02:15:19,760 --> 02:15:22,920
Speaker 1: the end, eleven people died in that fire on Osage Avenue,

2531
02:15:23,040 --> 02:15:26,360
Speaker 1: including five children. Weeks passed before the police were able

2532
02:15:26,400 --> 02:15:29,400
Speaker 1: to identify their remains. This is what I mean when

2533
02:15:29,400 --> 02:15:31,840
Speaker 1: I'm talking about Sorry, yeah, I was like, this is

2534
02:15:31,880 --> 02:15:34,280
Speaker 1: the story I was referring to in the first episode

2535
02:15:34,720 --> 02:15:39,080
Speaker 1: about like a bomb being dropped on Americans. It turns

2536
02:15:39,080 --> 02:15:41,760
Speaker 1: out that's a long Yeah, there's a lot of parallels

2537
02:15:41,800 --> 02:15:43,960
Speaker 1: between this and Tulsa, But you know, Tulsa, it was

2538
02:15:44,040 --> 02:15:47,920
Speaker 1: a mob of random citizens. The move bombing was mostly

2539
02:15:47,960 --> 02:15:53,720
Speaker 1: white police um and the organization moved. That was part

2540
02:15:53,760 --> 02:15:56,120
Speaker 1: of what I'm talking about. Counting the cost here. Move

2541
02:15:56,240 --> 02:15:58,480
Speaker 1: was a problem. They caused real issues for their neighbors,

2542
02:15:58,520 --> 02:16:00,840
Speaker 1: and their neighbors problems should not be discounted like they

2543
02:16:01,000 --> 02:16:04,320
Speaker 1: they they their neighbors had a serious issue with these

2544
02:16:04,360 --> 02:16:06,040
Speaker 1: people that needed to be dealt with, and they called

2545
02:16:06,080 --> 02:16:08,080
Speaker 1: the city to help them deal with it, and the

2546
02:16:08,200 --> 02:16:12,760
Speaker 1: city brought the police. In any any reasonable society would

2547
02:16:12,760 --> 02:16:15,200
Speaker 1: have need to have a way to deal something with

2548
02:16:15,240 --> 02:16:17,200
Speaker 1: like a bunch of people fortifying a building in a

2549
02:16:17,200 --> 02:16:19,480
Speaker 1: neighborhood and shouting at everyone in a bullhorn until they

2550
02:16:19,520 --> 02:16:22,680
Speaker 1: can't sleep. That's a problem. That's a problem that merits

2551
02:16:22,720 --> 02:16:26,000
Speaker 1: a solution. The solution the police brought to this problem

2552
02:16:26,320 --> 02:16:30,680
Speaker 1: was to burn down the entire neighborhood. Yeah, that's not

2553
02:16:32,400 --> 02:16:35,560
Speaker 1: that didn't need to happen. You didn't have to do that. Yeah,

2554
02:16:35,920 --> 02:16:39,280
Speaker 1: this there there were ways to deal with these people,

2555
02:16:39,720 --> 02:16:42,080
Speaker 1: because again, the members of Move never went out murdering

2556
02:16:42,120 --> 02:16:44,480
Speaker 1: people at random. That was not what they did. They

2557
02:16:44,680 --> 02:16:50,680
Speaker 1: they they problematics and they were annoying, and yeah, they

2558
02:16:50,760 --> 02:16:56,720
Speaker 1: weren't just killing strangers. That police did that. Yeah, the

2559
02:16:56,879 --> 02:17:00,480
Speaker 1: Philadelphia police did succeed in dealing with the issue of

2560
02:17:00,560 --> 02:17:04,320
Speaker 1: the Move organization. They did not harangue neighbors on loudspeakers

2561
02:17:04,360 --> 02:17:07,039
Speaker 1: anymore after this, and whatever possibly illegal weapons they may

2562
02:17:07,040 --> 02:17:09,400
Speaker 1: have had on the property were incinerated along with sixties

2563
02:17:09,400 --> 02:17:12,120
Speaker 1: something black homes and businesses. You could argue that some

2564
02:17:12,400 --> 02:17:14,720
Speaker 1: problems of law and order were solved by bombing the

2565
02:17:14,800 --> 02:17:18,440
Speaker 1: move compound. The question is like was the price worth it?

2566
02:17:18,600 --> 02:17:21,279
Speaker 1: And that's broadly the question we need to be asking

2567
02:17:21,400 --> 02:17:26,640
Speaker 1: and answering about our police. Is the cost worth it? Guys?

2568
02:17:27,400 --> 02:17:30,480
Speaker 1: You know what would wipe out your COVID nineteen? You

2569
02:17:30,520 --> 02:17:34,360
Speaker 1: could drink the bleach. You're right, it will end it.

2570
02:17:35,440 --> 02:17:39,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, you will die. Yeah. Did you ever listen

2571
02:17:39,760 --> 02:17:43,840
Speaker 1: to Chris Christofferson prop? Yeah? Yeah? Do you ever listen

2572
02:17:43,840 --> 02:17:47,240
Speaker 1: to a song The Laws for Protection of the People? No?

2573
02:17:48,040 --> 02:17:50,440
Speaker 1: If you'd like that song, it's a good example of

2574
02:17:50,560 --> 02:17:53,160
Speaker 1: like early country, you know, now country, there's like a

2575
02:17:53,200 --> 02:17:56,640
Speaker 1: lot of popular country is like very kind of reflectively patriotic,

2576
02:17:56,760 --> 02:18:00,520
Speaker 1: procop military. Old country was like it was like punk

2577
02:18:00,640 --> 02:18:05,040
Speaker 1: music but played differently, right um, And Chris Christofferson embodies

2578
02:18:05,080 --> 02:18:06,240
Speaker 1: that in a lot of ways. And The Law Is

2579
02:18:06,280 --> 02:18:08,280
Speaker 1: for Protection of the People is a song about cops,

2580
02:18:08,320 --> 02:18:10,520
Speaker 1: and it's like they're like the first verses about like

2581
02:18:10,600 --> 02:18:13,400
Speaker 1: a drunk guy that like falls down drunk on the

2582
02:18:13,440 --> 02:18:16,760
Speaker 1: sidewalk and the six squad cars you know, come streaming

2583
02:18:16,800 --> 02:18:19,000
Speaker 1: to the rescue to haul them off to jail. And

2584
02:18:19,080 --> 02:18:21,640
Speaker 1: the refrain of the song is because the laws for

2585
02:18:21,840 --> 02:18:24,880
Speaker 1: protection of the people rules or rules, and anyone can

2586
02:18:24,959 --> 02:18:28,000
Speaker 1: see we don't need no drunks like Billy Dalton is

2587
02:18:28,000 --> 02:18:30,080
Speaker 1: the name of the drunk scaring decent folks like you

2588
02:18:30,200 --> 02:18:33,240
Speaker 1: and me. And the second verses about a hippie who

2589
02:18:33,320 --> 02:18:36,400
Speaker 1: like a bunch of brave cops come surround and like

2590
02:18:36,600 --> 02:18:39,280
Speaker 1: beat down and shave his head forcibly. And you know

2591
02:18:39,360 --> 02:18:42,120
Speaker 1: there's another version of that refrain, and then the last

2592
02:18:42,320 --> 02:18:47,840
Speaker 1: verse is, um uh, so, thank your lucky stars, you've

2593
02:18:47,879 --> 02:18:51,360
Speaker 1: got protection. Walk the line and never mind the cost.

2594
02:18:51,879 --> 02:18:55,160
Speaker 1: Don't think of who them lawman was protecting when they

2595
02:18:55,320 --> 02:19:04,240
Speaker 1: nailed the Savior to the cross. But Chris Christofferson bringing

2596
02:19:04,280 --> 02:19:06,880
Speaker 1: at home? Yeah, bring it at home. Hey, you know

2597
02:19:07,000 --> 02:19:12,080
Speaker 1: what Precius Saver crooked justice system awesome hunt awesome, trumped

2598
02:19:12,160 --> 02:19:17,440
Speaker 1: up charges. Yep, So mind the cost is I guess

2599
02:19:17,520 --> 02:19:21,320
Speaker 1: the end message I want to have for this podcast? Yes,

2600
02:19:22,600 --> 02:19:26,920
Speaker 1: like this was the Lord's work. Robert whatever, you what

2601
02:19:27,200 --> 02:19:29,520
Speaker 1: if you wind up agreeing with us or not about

2602
02:19:29,560 --> 02:19:32,280
Speaker 1: what should be done with the police. When you think

2603
02:19:32,320 --> 02:19:34,920
Speaker 1: about what should be done with the police, think about

2604
02:19:35,240 --> 02:19:37,840
Speaker 1: what the price you're paying for them is and ask

2605
02:19:37,959 --> 02:19:43,600
Speaker 1: is it worth it? Yes? Do you protect your children

2606
02:19:43,800 --> 02:19:47,560
Speaker 1: by strapping them to their bed and barbed buying the door,

2607
02:19:49,440 --> 02:19:52,760
Speaker 1: or do you protect your children by loving them and

2608
02:19:52,840 --> 02:19:55,280
Speaker 1: caring for them and teaching them better ways to take

2609
02:19:55,320 --> 02:20:00,080
Speaker 1: care of themselves and their fellow neighbors. Yeah? Yeah, And

2610
02:20:00,200 --> 02:20:04,000
Speaker 1: it's people get aspects of this, Like people get aspects

2611
02:20:04,040 --> 02:20:05,959
Speaker 1: of this when like folks who are pro gun talk

2612
02:20:06,040 --> 02:20:09,080
Speaker 1: to liberals about like, oh, you know, people should defend

2613
02:20:09,160 --> 02:20:11,600
Speaker 1: themselves and like always carry a gun, and a lot

2614
02:20:11,600 --> 02:20:13,720
Speaker 1: of liberals will like rightly point out, like it sounds

2615
02:20:13,760 --> 02:20:15,680
Speaker 1: like a miserable world if everyone has to have a

2616
02:20:15,720 --> 02:20:17,840
Speaker 1: gun at them at all times. I don't. I don't

2617
02:20:17,879 --> 02:20:19,720
Speaker 1: like that vision of the world. But it's like, but

2618
02:20:19,920 --> 02:20:22,360
Speaker 1: do you support their being police who always have a

2619
02:20:22,400 --> 02:20:24,440
Speaker 1: shipload of weapons on them, who walk around with like

2620
02:20:24,600 --> 02:20:27,160
Speaker 1: five different weapons that are potentially lethal on their belt

2621
02:20:27,200 --> 02:20:33,199
Speaker 1: at any given time, Like that's part of it. I agree,

2622
02:20:33,560 --> 02:20:35,880
Speaker 1: it's better if there aren't a ton of weapons all

2623
02:20:35,959 --> 02:20:40,440
Speaker 1: over the place all of the time in the public sphere. Um, yeah,

2624
02:20:41,080 --> 02:20:44,000
Speaker 1: let's deal with that problem, and let's recognize that it

2625
02:20:44,120 --> 02:20:47,480
Speaker 1: really starts with police in our society. Um, let's just

2626
02:20:47,600 --> 02:20:58,320
Speaker 1: be honest. Yeah, yep, yeah, that was a lot of words.

2627
02:20:58,520 --> 02:21:03,720
Speaker 1: There was a lot of works. Yeah, yes, and my facts.

2628
02:21:03,800 --> 02:21:07,160
Speaker 1: Do care about your feelings, props. So how are you feeling? Man?

2629
02:21:07,280 --> 02:21:10,120
Speaker 1: That was great? I like that, Thank you. I am

2630
02:21:10,280 --> 02:21:15,800
Speaker 1: feeling disgusting. Uh. I'm a little tired, but I'm also

2631
02:21:15,800 --> 02:21:18,800
Speaker 1: a little hopeful because of the response we've been getting

2632
02:21:18,879 --> 02:21:22,040
Speaker 1: from this pod. Good, very hopeful. Yeah, yeah, it has

2633
02:21:22,080 --> 02:21:29,840
Speaker 1: been a great response. It's good to be hopeful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man,

2634
02:21:30,800 --> 02:21:39,360
Speaker 1: be hopeful. Defund the man. Um, there's better ideas. We

2635
02:21:39,440 --> 02:21:41,840
Speaker 1: can we can come up with a better idea, guys, Yeah,

2636
02:21:42,360 --> 02:21:44,920
Speaker 1: we can, we can, we can, we can. We can

2637
02:21:45,080 --> 02:21:48,359
Speaker 1: come up with so many better ideas. Um, for example,

2638
02:21:48,760 --> 02:21:53,160
Speaker 1: what if we just what if we replaced all of

2639
02:21:53,200 --> 02:21:55,640
Speaker 1: our cops with like, you know those dogs that they

2640
02:21:55,680 --> 02:21:57,680
Speaker 1: have in the mountains somewhere in Europe that have liquor

2641
02:21:57,720 --> 02:22:00,720
Speaker 1: around their necks. Those are raun Well, let's try that.

2642
02:22:01,360 --> 02:22:04,680
Speaker 1: Let's just fill the streets with those dogs. Those are

2643
02:22:04,800 --> 02:22:09,960
Speaker 1: so rad it'll work. Maybe. Yeah, if if if a

2644
02:22:10,160 --> 02:22:13,600
Speaker 1: if a husky walked up with up to me and

2645
02:22:13,720 --> 02:22:17,440
Speaker 1: had whiskey on his neck, I would be like, this

2646
02:22:17,600 --> 02:22:19,360
Speaker 1: is the coolest husky I've ever met in my life.

2647
02:22:20,240 --> 02:22:23,080
Speaker 1: I will stop whatever crime I'm doing because I just

2648
02:22:23,160 --> 02:22:25,840
Speaker 1: want to see this dog with whiskey. Yeah, and like

2649
02:22:25,920 --> 02:22:28,800
Speaker 1: a bunch of huge, well trained dogs everywhere, probably gonna

2650
02:22:28,840 --> 02:22:31,240
Speaker 1: stop more rapes than the cops, I'll tell you what,

2651
02:22:31,520 --> 02:22:36,480
Speaker 1: because everybody scared it dogs except for Sophie. Except for Sophie. Yeah.

2652
02:22:38,320 --> 02:22:46,920
Speaker 1: Well well jinks ye oh blood time. Yeah, I kind

2653
02:22:46,959 --> 02:22:50,120
Speaker 1: of do that. Yeah, profit pop dot com where I

2654
02:22:50,240 --> 02:22:54,800
Speaker 1: don't sell weapons. Um, that's good, and I challenge you

2655
02:22:54,920 --> 02:22:59,080
Speaker 1: to think of better ways to organize the world. And

2656
02:22:59,560 --> 02:23:02,920
Speaker 1: I sell coffee stuff. Um, I do music and poetry

2657
02:23:03,120 --> 02:23:06,760
Speaker 1: and that's all of the things are at prop hip

2658
02:23:06,800 --> 02:23:10,680
Speaker 1: hop yeah dot com, And I do not sell weapons yet,

2659
02:23:10,760 --> 02:23:13,040
Speaker 1: but when I moved to my compound in Ohio, I'll

2660
02:23:13,040 --> 02:23:16,520
Speaker 1: start legally manufacturing sought off shotguns. Um, so that the

2661
02:23:16,840 --> 02:23:19,200
Speaker 1: the the a t F will will finally raid me.

2662
02:23:19,760 --> 02:23:22,480
Speaker 1: Um you know that's the that was that was a

2663
02:23:22,560 --> 02:23:26,520
Speaker 1: ruby Ridge think. Yeah, I actually really think you gotta

2664
02:23:26,560 --> 02:23:29,840
Speaker 1: market there, I do, I do. You could start branding

2665
02:23:29,920 --> 02:23:36,120
Speaker 1: some weapons, yeah, Uncle Robert's legal homemade shotguns. Yes, I

2666
02:23:36,240 --> 02:23:39,000
Speaker 1: just couldn't into something. I couldn't repeatedly Waco in this

2667
02:23:39,160 --> 02:23:41,800
Speaker 1: episode without dropping a Ruby Ridge in there. Um, so

2668
02:23:42,160 --> 02:23:45,080
Speaker 1: it's not fair, that's no. And it's not fair that

2669
02:23:45,120 --> 02:23:46,720
Speaker 1: we talked about Waco all the time but not the

2670
02:23:46,760 --> 02:23:49,080
Speaker 1: move bombing, because like they're both cases of like out

2671
02:23:49,160 --> 02:23:52,520
Speaker 1: of control militarized police burning children to death. Yeah yeah,

2672
02:23:53,480 --> 02:23:56,360
Speaker 1: yeah because those black people. Yeah, it's sucked up. Yeah

2673
02:23:56,480 --> 02:24:00,640
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. Find a way to make the move bombing

2674
02:24:00,959 --> 02:24:03,240
Speaker 1: Waco again. I don't know what the that's not a

2675
02:24:03,240 --> 02:24:06,280
Speaker 1: good moral. Um, they need a Netflix series where they

2676
02:24:06,360 --> 02:24:11,280
Speaker 1: hire a sexy guy to be John Africa. Yeah yeah,

2677
02:24:13,040 --> 02:24:16,480
Speaker 1: they could play like or something. Yeah yeah yeah, haven't

2678
02:24:16,480 --> 02:24:19,920
Speaker 1: haven't have a Blue S concerts. They're being bombed. Just

2679
02:24:20,080 --> 02:24:25,320
Speaker 1: throw that in there for no reason, unnecessary. That was

2680
02:24:25,400 --> 02:24:28,160
Speaker 1: the wildest thing about the Waco show was like, Okay,

2681
02:24:28,240 --> 02:24:30,160
Speaker 1: so you guys are just you guys just turning David

2682
02:24:30,240 --> 02:24:35,080
Speaker 1: Koresh into a rock star. Alright, Like what that's a stance.

2683
02:24:35,840 --> 02:24:39,199
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And now I want to see the fucking

2684
02:24:39,400 --> 02:24:41,480
Speaker 1: I want to see them like do a Jim Jones

2685
02:24:41,560 --> 02:24:44,520
Speaker 1: mini series. He turned him into like a stand up comedian.

2686
02:24:45,560 --> 02:24:49,080
Speaker 1: He's just hilariousous. That's why we all go. Yeah, we

2687
02:24:49,480 --> 02:24:55,480
Speaker 1: we cast David Chappelle's Jim Jones. Fuck it, No one

2688
02:24:55,560 --> 02:25:03,440
Speaker 1: gives a ship? Where Netflix? Oh Lord, all right? Podcast

2689
02:25:03,560 --> 02:25:06,720
Speaker 1: is out. This podcast has to stop. Go to fund

2690
02:25:06,800 --> 02:25:13,200
Speaker 1: your local police. Behind the Police is a production of

2691
02:25:13,280 --> 02:25:15,840
Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

2692
02:25:16,240 --> 02:25:19,199
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

2693
02:25:19,360 --> 02:25:20,920
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.