1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: M This is Mesters in Business with very Renaults on 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: Bluebird Radio. This week on the podcast, I have an 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: extra special guest. Michelle Sites runs Russell Investments. She's chairman 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: in chief executive Officer. Russell is a investing giant. They 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: manage three thirty billion dollars or more. They do almost 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: three trillion dollars a year in annual trades. They advise 7 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: on another two point eight trillion dollars. UH. They're just 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: a giant firm. About half of their business comes from overseas, 9 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: from outside of the US. She is a highly regarded 10 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: executive and a member of a small club of women 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: who run giant asset management firms. We talk a little 12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: bit about that. We talk about how they've expanded out 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: of beta and and indexing into a broader range of investing. 14 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: Outsourced c I o IS is a large and fast 15 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: growing business line of THEIRS, as well as alternative investments, 16 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: and how they're expanding their platform to include that. UH. 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: This is really a very much investing industry conversation if 18 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: you're at all interested in what it's like to run 19 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: a giant UH company that's in dozens and dozens of 20 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: countries and have thousands and thousands of employees. You're gonna 21 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: find this to be absolutely fascinating. So, with no further ado, 22 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: my conversation with Michelle Sites of Russell Investments. This is 23 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: mesters in Business with very Renaults on Bluebird Radio. My 24 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: extra special guests this week is Michelle Sites. She is 25 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: the chairman and chief executive officer of Russell Investments. The 26 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: firm manages over three d thirty one billion dollars, with 27 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: an additional two point eight trillion under advisement. They trade 28 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: over two point six trillion dollars in equities a year. 29 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: Half of their revenues comes from outside of the United States. 30 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: Michelle Sites is a member of all the usual lists 31 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: Most Powerful Women in Finance, the Power one hundred, Most 32 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: Influential Women in US Finance. I'll stop right there, but 33 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: we'll add Michelle Sites. Welcome to Bloomberg Berry. Thank you 34 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: very much for having me. So let me jump to 35 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: my first question. So you spent about twenty one years 36 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 1: at William Blair. Tell us a little bit about how 37 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: you got into the finance industry. Sure, sure, Um, well, 38 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: going going back, Um, I decided early on that it 39 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: was what I wanted to do, so before I applied 40 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: to colleges, I decided that I wanted to go into business, 41 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: and that was the cumulative impact of several things. Like 42 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: many people in life, influenced by my parents. UM. First, 43 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: my my father was very influential in my formative years, 44 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: but especially as it revolved around business and dealing with people. 45 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: He was a second generation entrepreneur, and from the age 46 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: of twelve I worked by his side after school on 47 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: the weekends during summer, and he really was quite impactful, 48 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: and how I decided to pursue a degree in which 49 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: college to go to UM. On the On the flip side, 50 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: my my mother was very influential, and I would say 51 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: more from the standpoint of the impact I wanted to 52 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: have and and kind of I guess I would say 53 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: control UM for financial stability. She worked very hard, but 54 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: it was a long and difficult path for her. My 55 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: parents divorced when I was young, and so I just 56 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: I saw firsthand UM the need UH to leverage people's 57 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: hard work and drive them toward financial security. And so 58 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to master money, I guess is the best 59 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: the best way to phrase it. So I read all 60 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: those money master books by I think it was John Train, buffet, 61 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: shareholder letters, um et cetera. But I was just fascinated 62 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: with the miracle of compound interest and the like. But 63 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: but really what hooked me on investing was a high 64 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: school field trip. Um So. I grew up in a 65 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: small town in Indiana. We took a bus trip to Chicago. 66 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: It was with my advanced chemistry class actually, and the 67 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: main show was the Museum of Science and Industry, but 68 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: we took a quick detour fortuitously for me, at the 69 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: Chicago Board of Trade, and I was hooked. I love 70 00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: the passion, the energy from the floor and when I 71 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,119 Speaker 1: decided that investing was what I wanted to do, so 72 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: um so that that set me on my trajectory early on, 73 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: and before I even set off for college. So interestingly, 74 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: post college, one of your first jobs in finance was 75 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:22,679 Speaker 1: in I've had a few guests who began their career 76 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: the year the market took that horrific crash. Tell us 77 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: about what that was like. Uh so early in your career. 78 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: What do you remember from that? Yeah, well, it was 79 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: you know, baptism by fire. So I had just graduated. 80 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: Um I loaded up all my my worldly goods in 81 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: a U haul and drove down to Charlotte, North Carolina 82 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: to work with what was then MCNB, which turned into 83 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: Nation's Bank and Bank America. Um but um, but it 84 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: was a phenomenal culture. So I stepped foot into the 85 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: investment industry in June of so a few months before 86 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: the Baptism by Fire. Um. But but I would say 87 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: the first leading up to that, I will just say 88 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: what I remember the most about that year, as it 89 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: was a tale of all kinds of uh cities. Um. 90 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: The first was I thought I'd missed it, right. I mean, 91 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: we had a tremendous bowl market from eight two to 92 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: eighty seven. The del Jones had tripled, and I would 93 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: sit there and talk with the veterans of the industry. 94 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: All you know, I was younger by a factor of 95 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: ten years anyone else managing money. Um. But I really 96 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: did think that I missed it. That you know, this 97 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: was the best we'd we'd ever had, and you wonder 98 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: how much better it could get? And then you quickly 99 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: found yourself or I found myself uh in Baptism by 100 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: Fire Um with that faithful day which was Black Monday, 101 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: October nineteenth, when the market fell in a single day 102 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: and I'll age myself with this story, but what I 103 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: what I remember most were the lines at the quotron. 104 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: Do you remember quotron? So quotrons you had to you 105 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: didn't have anything at your desk, and you didn't have 106 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: twenty four or seven TV. So you did line up 107 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: at a quotron UM, which were stationed in each of 108 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: the major corners of the of the trading desk and 109 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: the in the hallways, and you punch in your ticker symbols. 110 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: And I remember I was dutifully punching in my ticker 111 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: symbols because even with only three months under my belt, 112 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: I was managing UM a few hundred million dollars UM 113 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: and so I was very busy focused on not losing 114 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: my client's money and how to lean in and make 115 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: them money. And behind me stood the CEO of the 116 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: bank UM. He was quite an imposing figure within financial services, 117 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: but Hugh McCall, and he was asking me all kinds 118 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: of questions, and I was, you know, being very serious 119 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: and uh answering them all without turning around and looking 120 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: at who was posing the question the questions to me. 121 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: And I was, you know, I was twenty three years old, 122 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: and UM he Finally, he finally said, who are you 123 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: and what do you do? What do you do here? Started? Yeah, 124 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: I started rattling off my resume and he said, he said, 125 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: what qualifies you to manage money? Which was a which 126 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: was a legitimate question, you know, three months three months 127 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 1: out of school. Um. But but anyway, I guess, I 128 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: guess that baptism by fire and uh and being being 129 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: asked the question what does qualify you to do? This 130 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: had had me take it incredibly seriously. UM. I number 131 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: one understood that this is this is real money for 132 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: real people who have real needs, and the emotions of people, 133 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: UM can be the greatest destroyers of wealth. And as 134 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: a professional investor, that's what you've got to learn to 135 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: um harness or eliminate from the decision making process. UM. 136 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: But it also made it the purpose of the industry 137 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: quite real to me, very very fast. So when you're 138 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: talking with people who really are fearful of being able 139 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: to retire, being able to send kids to college, the 140 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: markets are in a free fall. It was it was 141 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: a very good baptism by fire. UM. So I'm glad 142 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: I saw what I thought was the peak. I'm glad 143 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: I was was so early in my career trajectory that 144 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: I under stood that this wasn't a game, UM, and 145 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: I'm glad that I was that close to the clients 146 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: rather than being disintermediated, you know with a mutual fund 147 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: where you never talked with the end clients UM as much, 148 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: and so it just made it. It made it very serious. 149 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: It made it very real, very quickly, and you received 150 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: the firm's Rookie of the Year award. Tell us about that, 151 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: Oh well, UM, well that was fun. It was. It was. 152 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: There was a big celebration on the top floor of 153 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: the building. Hugh came, UM, all of the executive team 154 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:48,599 Speaker 1: came to celebrate the top investment performers in the investment 155 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: division and so UM I was invited to that. It 156 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: was my first it was my first year UM, and 157 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: I would say that, you know, I didn't I understand 158 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: the import of it, to be honest, until several very 159 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: senior portfolio managers came up and said, you do understand 160 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: how important it is to be seen here, right, And 161 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: I said, of course, but I really I really didn't. 162 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: But it was most important, I would say, for my 163 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: street cred to be part of that UM, to be 164 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: part of that group and to give me credibility, especially 165 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: given you know my um, disproportionate youth, uh and frankly inexperience. 166 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: I mean I did do well. One year does not 167 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: prove skill, to be quite frank but um, thirty five years. 168 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: Hence I think I learned a lot from that time period. Um. 169 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: And I was a student too of of the I 170 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 1: would say, of the profession, and so that was very 171 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: very helpful to me. And understanding how important it was 172 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: to deliver on the value proposition to the clients and 173 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: have it celebrated in the way that they did was 174 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: was really important, but it was it was a great way. Frankly, 175 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: the crash and being Rookie of the Year was a 176 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: was a great way to start my career. So the 177 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: first I don't know if I should call it half, 178 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: but certainly the first part of your career. You're on 179 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: the asset management side. You eventually rise to the leadership 180 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: of William Blair and now you serve as CEO of 181 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: Russell Investments. How did managing assets and being part of 182 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: a larger corporate entity helped prepare you for your present 183 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: leadership role. That's a really good question, especially the way 184 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: you phrase it, um, you know, not not many people 185 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: ask me about the similar charities or the leverage from 186 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: being an investor to being a leader. UM. So so 187 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: that's a poignant question because I think I think there 188 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: are strong similarities. UM. You know. First of all, I 189 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: would say that just what energizes me aligns to the role, 190 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: both the investing role as well as the leadership role. 191 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: And so I would say that solving solving problems energizes me. 192 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:37,239 Speaker 1: Trying to figure out what the root cause UH problems 193 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: are and making sure that there's a there's a level 194 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: of human connection that makes the work meaningful. UM. It 195 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: inspires me. And so I think that just as a touchstone, UM, 196 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 1: that's that's been critically important both to being able to 197 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: be a lifelong learner as an investor, um, but also 198 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: as a as a leader in a people and knowledge 199 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: worker industry. UM. The second, the second thing I would 200 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: say is that as a as a PM as an investor, 201 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: where I was most additive two my peer discussions. I 202 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: do believe investing as a team sport and UM, you 203 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: make each other better by coming at problem solving and 204 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: the puzzle of investing with different perspectives and and mine 205 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: was um that I was a very structured and strategic thinker. 206 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: UM I could do the analyst role and the modeling role, 207 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: but it didn't excite me as much as digging into 208 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: the problem that a company was solving for and how 209 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: was it creating a durab both sustainable franchise that was 210 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: frankly in some large way additive to society and filling 211 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: a societal need. And so that that was really what 212 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: I enjoyed, and it aligns very much with being a 213 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: CEO as well, and so I think I think that 214 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: part was very important. I think also just being data 215 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: driven in your decision making, but being very understanding of 216 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: how important people and teams are, whether they be management 217 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: teams for the companies that you're investing in UM or 218 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: the culture of an organization, or the ability to execute 219 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: on a strategic plan, all has to be with a 220 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: very strong people component and the desire and and understanding 221 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: of the import of human connection. And I think that 222 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: as an investor as well as a leader, I've hopefully 223 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: been able to marry those two in a very in 224 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: a very real way. Let's talk a little bit about Russell, 225 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: which I used to associate with indexes the Russell two thousand, 226 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: most famously, but that's no longer the focus of your business. 227 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: That that particular line was sold a couple of years ago. 228 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about your current state of 229 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: your business, who your clients, and what is your key focus? Sure, um, well, 230 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: I would say that the as an investor, the most 231 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: insightful questions you could ever ask a management team is 232 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: is tell me about how the firm started and how 233 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: you got to where you are. So I won't do 234 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: a whole a whole history of Russell, but the fact 235 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: that you bring up the indicase is a pretty critical 236 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: part of who Russell is today and and where the 237 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: um competitive advantage comes from. So so let me start there. 238 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: You know, we're eighty five years young, um, and Frank 239 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: Russell opened the doors of our firm. Uh. And he 240 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: did so, um under the umbrella of investing, you know, 241 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: for people's financial security. So he started with individuals. But 242 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: his grandson, George Russell, really was a pioneering spirit. That's 243 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: true generally now that I lived there of the Pacific northwest. Um. 244 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: But but where we where we developed, uh, the indices 245 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: along the way was really at the core of what 246 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: makes the firm tick, and that's putting client problems at 247 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 1: the center of innovation. And so we we did start 248 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: with pension consulting, so we we were a pioneer in 249 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: developing the pension consulting world. Uh, then we moved on 250 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: to also creating indices and manager selection was it at 251 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: the core of our consulting practice. And but we didn't 252 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: have good indicase to measure the ability and the skill 253 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: and remove factors from the influencing UM the alpha derived 254 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: from the individual managers. So that's where the Russell indicase 255 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: came from. And factor investing is still core to what 256 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: we offer and do. We do it in the form 257 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: of direct indexing and overlays and the like. But but 258 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: that was really an important academic process but also just 259 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: core to the firm being UM kind of a client 260 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: centric innovative core. UM. The other parts of what we 261 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: do manager selection, advice, UM, portfolio construction, assembly, risk management, 262 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: implementation and execution are all now UM a part of 263 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: what we do. But really how I define the firm 264 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: today is an investment solutions firm. That's the only thing 265 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: we do is provide investment solutions with end to end capabilities, 266 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: so that we are either an extension of an investment staff, 267 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: whether it's a corporate dB plan, a DC plan, sovereign 268 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: wealth fund, or if you're an advisor in the wealth space, 269 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: we're either an extension of your investment staff and capabilities, 270 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: or we're a full outsource of your staff, which is 271 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: commonly referred to as the O c i O industry 272 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: or fiduciary management. So that's really interesting. The I think 273 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: the average non financial professional understands UM consulting. You you 274 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: want to know more about how to do something, you 275 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: hire somebody with an expertise and they come in and 276 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: will work with your staff to set up your four 277 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: oh one K plan for the company or things like that. 278 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: Tell us more about the O c i O role. 279 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: How fast is that area growing? Who are those sorts 280 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: of clients? It sounds like a very robust business line 281 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: that the average person is probably less familiar with. Yeah, well, um, 282 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: so uh the answer is yes, you you are right 283 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: that people are less familiar with it. I do believe that, um, 284 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: the industry is headed here quickly. So it may it 285 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: may take on different terms, but allowing allowing us the 286 00:20:52,960 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: industry to effectively personalize at scale in a very institutionally 287 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: sophisticated manner is what I believe is the future of 288 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: the industry UM and so and so people refer to 289 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: it as a product. I don't think of it as 290 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: a product. I think it's the core of the of 291 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: the purpose of the industry and solving for client needs 292 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: and so. Let me so, I'll back up a little 293 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: bit and say, yes, it is one of the fastest 294 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: growing segments in the asset management industry. It's called solutions outcomes, 295 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: goal oriented investing. But when you choose to truly outsource 296 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: the activities if it's not core to what you do, 297 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: if you are you know, Boeing as a client, Uh, 298 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: they are not in the business of investing, but they 299 00:21:53,320 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: do have very large UM pension plans BENEF that plans 300 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: for to secure their employees retirements UM and that increasingly 301 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: has been an area that we've been helping, not just 302 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: smaller midsize companies. It used to be that it's more 303 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: the sub ten billion dollars in assets UM plans that 304 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: would outsource this activity UM. But even there UM seventy 305 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: I think it's over seventy of asset owners with assets 306 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: up to ten billion have not yet outsourced UM. There's 307 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:42,239 Speaker 1: also an incredibly large trend which we're benefiting from. Uh 308 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: we just one and will make public a mandate that's 309 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: over ten billion US in the UK that has decided 310 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: that they would outsource their pension scheme to Russell Investments 311 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: UM and then BCG also you know tags. This is 312 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: one of the fastest growing UM categories within the industry, 313 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: even faster frankly than private markets, which is kind of 314 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: astounding given how much private markets UM gets played in 315 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: the press relative to O C I, O and and 316 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: and fiduciary management. Really really quite interesting. So you mentioned 317 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: factor investing earlier UM and again I think of Russell 318 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: is most associated with small cap as a as a factor. 319 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: Is the cheap beta story over now or is there 320 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: still some juice left to be squeezed from uh smart 321 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: beta factor investing, whatever we want to call it. Well, 322 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: I do believe that as the industry has evolved UM, 323 00:23:55,359 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: you know, factor investing has been UM very important in 324 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: terms of delivering value in the form of exposures two factors, 325 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: whether it be through you know e t s or 326 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: passive mutual funds or direct investing. And I don't believe 327 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: that's going away. UM, It's been a core of how 328 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: we build portfolios for big institutions as well as for individuals. 329 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: Of our business is in the wealth channel where we 330 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: have advisors as our clients. So we're the number one 331 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: third party third party models provider in that channel. And 332 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: so I do believe that this will still be a 333 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: sustainable and consistent part of how of how individuals and 334 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: UM in business his build portfolio. So so Number one 335 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: is it's not over. I think it's now just become 336 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: a core part of portfolio construction. But I do believe 337 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: I often get asked the passive versus active and the 338 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: demise of the active asset management industry, and I believe 339 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: that this is a continuum. The The real story is 340 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: a client outcome story. The real story is the need 341 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: to solve for financial resilience, financial stability. UM. The real 342 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: need is about putting the clients at the center of 343 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: our of our innovation to ensure that we are delivering 344 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: on the goals that are quite individually driven. And so 345 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: that that's what I believe the real story is rather 346 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: than a cheap data story. But I don't believe that 347 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: factor exposure however it is you get it within a 348 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: portfolio is over by any stretch. I think that the 349 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: conversation will turn more quickly with the use of technology 350 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: and better hyping, which which we can talk about. But 351 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: but I do believe that technology and streamlining the delivery 352 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: and access points and fractionalization of shares word will drive 353 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: access to factor exposures to become more scalable, uh for 354 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: smaller accounts, and I believe that's a very exciting development 355 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 1: which will deliver more value and more importantly allow us 356 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: to personalize at scale using both factor exposures, which is 357 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: what I refer to as data but allows you to 358 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: really fine tune a portfolio for factor expos posures, but 359 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: also customize for individual outcomes, whether it be income or 360 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: total return or e S g UM or values based investing, 361 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: things like that. And in that vein active investing is 362 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: still very much alive. Yeah, I think there's a misunderstanding 363 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: because half of e t fs and mutual funds are 364 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: now indexed. But when you look at the broader asset 365 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: management universe, the vast majority of management is still pretty active, 366 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 1: isn't it. Well, it is pretty active, and frankly with 367 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: the growth of private markets generally speaking, UM, both both 368 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 1: credit and equity growing very quickly, right, and so you've 369 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: got this this ground swell of entrepreneurial activity and private 370 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: mark it's investing more generally, which I'm sure we'll talk about, 371 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: but but that that growing sleeve UM has been very 372 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: impactful and democratizing access to that but doing so responsibly 373 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: will be another imperative for the for the industry. And 374 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: and being able to drive engagement UM around d s 375 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: G and also make it more customer customized around personal 376 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: personal values UH necessitates UM active management. And so I 377 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: believe it's it's always been an end for me, not 378 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: an either or, and it's always been a component of 379 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: the story about delivering client value, which is lowering cost 380 00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: and allowing more control of how to build portfolio construction 381 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: alpha and allow for better execution ALPHA. And so I 382 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: really do believe that portfolio construction assembly, tapping into all 383 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: asset classes and leveraging technology for personalization at scale is 384 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: the story UM of the asset management industry. But it 385 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: doesn't make the factor exposure story go away. It just 386 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: makes it an an instrumental part of the equation. Huh. 387 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: Really quite interesting. We'll talk about E s G in 388 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: a bit. I'm curious if you have any thoughts on 389 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: direct indexing. We've seen Morgan Stanley and Van Gord and 390 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: black Rock make acquisitions to enter that space. What are 391 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: your thoughts on the concept of using software to kind 392 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: of modify passive indices. Absolutely, we are all in so 393 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: we do direct indexing very actively and have for quite 394 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: a long time. We do it for the largest asset 395 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: pools in the world. But we've also been able with 396 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: the use of technology, much like UH the acquisition acquisitions 397 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: that others have made in the industry, We've we've honed 398 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: our capabilities to do that over time. Again, it came 399 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: from the core of UH index investing in general for 400 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: us UM, but that factor exposure investing, has now been 401 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: driven down into the tens of millions of dollars that 402 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: we can do direct investing for. I believe that's also 403 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: true of of these other firms you you talk about 404 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: and what they're entities or their act acquisitions have been 405 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: able to do. And we're all racing very quickly UM 406 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: again to be able to use technology as well. Is 407 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: the pipes within the industry to gather data in real 408 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: time from our clients, incorporate the data UM and then 409 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: UM and then make it less of a two UM 410 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: dimensional risk return efficient frontier conversation and very quickly make 411 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: it three dimensional. And the reason I mentioned that is 412 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: it goes back again to what I was saying about 413 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: personalization at scale, fractionalized shares, direct investing, technology, UH, data UM, 414 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: data gathering is all coalescing to a very very exciting 415 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: and I would say value enhancing UH contribution back to society. 416 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: And that's and that's allowing us to really do you know, 417 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: tax efficiency down to the individual level. UH. Direct investment, 418 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: direct indexing allow you to do that UM, but direct 419 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: investing overall allows you to do that UM, allowing for 420 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: personalization to your values and understanding how that changes your 421 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: risk return profile and how to get you back on it. 422 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: So I actually believe that vehicles as we know them 423 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: today UM could change pretty dramatically as we head into 424 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: the future UM, and that's a good thing. We shouldn't 425 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: be trying to protect protect vehicles. We should be trying 426 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: to distribute what it is we all do and can 427 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: give access to, so that again, UM, you can achieve 428 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: personalization at scale and really drive to individual outcomes. And 429 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: by definition, you know, a target date fund says that 430 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: all you know, fifty five year olds are exactly the same, right, 431 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: And we all know it's a vast improvement over over 432 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: defaulting to cash to have plans to fault to target 433 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: date funds. But we have a long way to go, 434 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: uh to to make it to the point that frankly, 435 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: many UH consumer oriented companies have gotten to already with 436 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: being able to customize the experience that you have as 437 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: well as outcome. And I think that direct indexing, direct indexing, 438 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: but also just direct investing is core to that. Do 439 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: you want to explain the difference between the two direct 440 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: indexing pretty straightforward? Instead of buying the S and P 441 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: five hundred spiders, you buy all five hundred of those companies, 442 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: and you can say, hey, I don't want to own 443 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: gun manufacturers or royal companies, or companies that have no 444 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: women on their boards. You can tune it in just 445 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,959 Speaker 1: about any way imaginable. How does that contrast with direct 446 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: investing versus direct indexing? Uh? Well, well, indexing is indexing, right, 447 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: I mean, so you're trying to get your trying to 448 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: when you index your indexing to something UM and typically UH, 449 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: that's that's a risk return, that's a risk return profile 450 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: and UM and a factor exposure. What what I'm talking 451 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: about is doing another layer, which means you're optimizing for 452 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: a third um, a third dimension which could be optimizing 453 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: for taxes, optimizing for environment or social or government or 454 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: governance issues. But you do have to decide what it 455 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: is you're optimizing for, and you can either do it 456 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: through pure indexing and factor exposure or you can lean 457 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: into act of which frankly, I don't believe that E 458 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: s G investing is fully captured or utilized in a positive, proactive, 459 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: forward leaning way so that you're measuring impact rather than 460 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: measuring risk exposure. So we can talk about that, but 461 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: but you you really do that best with active engagement 462 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 1: and fundamental judgment rather than backward looking data, which is 463 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 1: which is ultimately where indices don't do the forward looking 464 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: impact role as well. So so direct indexing would be 465 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: mimicking factor returns. Direct investing, in my mind, opens up 466 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: the aperture for everything, both factor exposures as well as 467 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: leaning into active and personalization at scale. So I want 468 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,240 Speaker 1: to talk about the transformation you've helped to affect it Russell. 469 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: But I have to start with your time at William 470 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: Blair from whence you were recruited to Russell. What was 471 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 1: that process like, how did you come to realize Hey, uh, 472 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: I've enjoyed my time at Blair, but Russell looks kind 473 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:38,399 Speaker 1: of interesting. Well, UM, I would say that when I 474 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: was approached about a role at Russell UM, it happened 475 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: organically and slowly. I had known uh Tier Associates, which 476 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: is one of the private equity firms that UM invests 477 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: UH and and sponsors Russell UM for quite a long 478 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: time UM. And then, like many things in life, it uh, 479 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: it happened slowly and then all at once, And it 480 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: was ultimately one of the hardest decisions that I've ever made. 481 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: And I would say first because I enjoyed my time 482 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: at William Blair immensely. After twenty plus years, it becomes 483 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: part of the fabric of who you are. And we 484 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: we grew together UM as a as a team. We 485 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: had a fivefold increase from two thousand and one when 486 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: I took over and drove it with our team, a 487 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: phenomenal team who were close personal friends. Today. UM, you know, 488 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: to over seventy five billion when I left a fivefold 489 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: increase and and took a start up institutional business that 490 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: was only a few couple of billion dollars to eight 491 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: fold increase. So it was a it was a tremendous, 492 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: tremendous ride. UM. But I would say the difficulty and 493 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 1: the reason it was the hardest decision for me to 494 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: make is I have five children, UM. Four of them 495 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: were in high school and one was in UM was 496 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: in elementary school when this opportunity came around. And you know, 497 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: uprooting your family after you've been in a in a 498 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: community for twenty six years, UH is no small decision. 499 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: My husband was incredibly supportive. H he views life as 500 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: an adventure, and he's very supportive of of me uh 501 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: in my career, and he knows how much energy I 502 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: get from it. But but you know, uprooting everyone, plus 503 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: my mother and extended family was was no small was 504 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,240 Speaker 1: no small feat. But we took the caravan to Seattle, 505 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: and I was ready for the for a new challenge, 506 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: and it was incredibly exciting, But it was a it 507 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: was a very difficult decision to make. It's been a 508 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: great decision in retrospect, but but I always remind myself 509 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: to be comfortable with being uncomfortable, and I would say 510 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,479 Speaker 1: that was one of those times for sure. Yeah, good, 511 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: good advice. So William Blair was more of an investment bank, 512 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: Russell is more of a pure asset manager. What did 513 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:35,399 Speaker 1: you learn at William Blair that translated well to Russell UM? Well, well, 514 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 1: two things. The first. The first is that the best 515 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,760 Speaker 1: kept secret I guess that's still a best kept secret 516 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: is that Blair UM the asset management business did grow 517 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: to be the largest UM business at William Blair UM, 518 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,919 Speaker 1: and so UM as much as we were well known 519 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: for our investment banking activities, UM it grew to be 520 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 1: a powerhouse and and still is UH in the asset 521 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: management side UM. But but you are right that UM. 522 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: While William Blair was a multi line firm, Russell is 523 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,479 Speaker 1: hyper focused and only focused on one business, and that's 524 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: investment solutions. We do everything that's required to manage UM portfolios, 525 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: but it's only one business. And I did love the 526 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: beauty of that. I loved the focus, UH, the attention 527 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 1: of UH the entire organization on one deliverable UH two 528 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: different clients around the world. So the last mile is 529 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: always localized and personalized. But but that that that level 530 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: of focus was is a luxury. Not many firms have it, 531 00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,280 Speaker 1: and so I very much appreciated that. But you also, 532 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,720 Speaker 1: what what did I learn from Blair that I carried 533 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: to Russell? And I think there are many similarities that 534 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: The first is that I had known Russell for a 535 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:18,919 Speaker 1: very long time. Culturally I understood stood the culture quite well. 536 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: The value structure which was very similar to William Blair UM, 537 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 1: and it was client centric UH fiduciary UM at its core. 538 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: So while William Blair was in the security selection business 539 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 1: and Russell is in the portfolio construction, portfolio assembly, risk 540 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: management business slightly different, UM, you still had at your 541 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:55,280 Speaker 1: core a value structure of non negotiable integrity UH client 542 00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: centric alignment. Frankly, both at Blair as well at Russell, 543 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 1: so much so that growing UM growing. I had to 544 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:11,320 Speaker 1: convince my partners at Blair early on and also convinced 545 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: Russell that growing is good. You know, growing, growing the 546 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: business is good for clients. You can't impact clients if 547 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: you aren't getting more of them UM, and so growing 548 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,800 Speaker 1: is good. But the client centric focus was so strong 549 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,120 Speaker 1: that there was a bit of a resistance and and 550 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 1: not as much alignment to grow because we would make 551 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: more money. Um. That didn't motivate either firm. It was 552 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: more uh curating um, the outcome for the client and 553 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,439 Speaker 1: ensuring that you were protecting performance and serving those clients well. 554 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: And sometimes, especially in a profession like the investment industry, 555 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:03,320 Speaker 1: delivering a service at scale versus selling a product. UM. 556 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: You know, size can be the enemy of the best outcome, 557 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 1: and so making sure that we do that uh and 558 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: manage the business in a way that growth actually a 559 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 1: nurse to the benefit of the clients has been a 560 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 1: key a key focus during the time that we grew 561 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,399 Speaker 1: the business at Blair, and it's also been a key 562 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: focus uh and the core touchstone as we've transformed the 563 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: business at Russell. Huh. So let's talk a little bit 564 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: about that transformation. You've described having to work hard to 565 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: change the firm's corporate culture. Tell us about what it 566 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 1: was like to do that and why corporate culture is 567 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 1: so important. Well, UM, the bottom line is that why 568 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: it's so important is that people matter. You can't in 569 00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 1: a people driven business, you can't instatutionalize anything to the 570 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:06,440 Speaker 1: point that people don't matter, and so UM, Ultimately, any 571 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: great firm is a collection of individuals that work as 572 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 1: a high functioning team for a purpose. So I do 573 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:19,479 Speaker 1: believe that culture is a competitive advantage. There's no one 574 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: recipe for success. But starting with a very clear value 575 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:32,359 Speaker 1: structure that's aligned to the client and the health of 576 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 1: the individuals, I think is you've won nine tenths of 577 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 1: the battle. So I will just start by saying that 578 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 1: Russell had that, UM, it's a venerable, iconic firm in 579 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: our industry. UM, I'm very proud to be affiliated with it. 580 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 1: And what what I what I did less than change it. Hopefully, 581 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 1: hopefully I've just enhanced it and understood what what we 582 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,879 Speaker 1: absolutely And actually it was a question I asked when 583 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: I did my tour around the world for four months 584 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: and logged five hundred plus thousand miles on a plane 585 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,440 Speaker 1: is just the listening tour is what what do do 586 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,879 Speaker 1: I absolutely need to be careful not to break? And 587 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,440 Speaker 1: what do I need to change? And so it was 588 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: a question that I asked clients. It was a question 589 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 1: that I asked all of the associates around the world. 590 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: We did surveys, I got feedback in any forum that 591 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 1: I could. When I first introduced myself to the firm, 592 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 1: I put the values and the purpose of the firm 593 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: up on the screen and talked about those UM so 594 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,360 Speaker 1: I leaned in to the strengths of the firm. But 595 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,000 Speaker 1: what I what I what I agreed with all of 596 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:03,000 Speaker 1: my associates was that we need did too align the 597 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 1: firms activities around values that things that the clients valued 598 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: more than just liked. So we were such a client 599 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:21,120 Speaker 1: centric firm that we personalized for every single client. And 600 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:27,279 Speaker 1: you can appreciate that that UM ultimately undermines quality and 601 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,600 Speaker 1: delivery of service because you can't customize everything and you 602 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:39,720 Speaker 1: definitely can't grow a durable, profitable franchise by UM by 603 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:46,240 Speaker 1: individualizing every single thing without it being scalable. And so 604 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,879 Speaker 1: what what I changed as part of the culture was 605 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:54,920 Speaker 1: making sure that everyone understood that even though we were 606 00:46:54,960 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: academically and intellectually very rigorous in how we solve problems 607 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:05,600 Speaker 1: for clients, it wasn't enough to be right with with 608 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,799 Speaker 1: just an individual client. We had to be equally effective 609 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,200 Speaker 1: and how we delivered that at scale and leverage the 610 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,719 Speaker 1: i P of the global capabilities for the benefit of 611 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: all clients and then customized UM at the last mile. 612 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 1: And that was that commercial instinct that UM that why 613 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,160 Speaker 1: of why growth was good? Why do we need to 614 00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:36,799 Speaker 1: change our behaviors so that we can get scalable, durable, 615 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,800 Speaker 1: sustainable growth for the clients as well as high quality, 616 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 1: frictionalist service for them was what needed to change. And 617 00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 1: so that's not a small undertaking. But culturally it was 618 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:58,480 Speaker 1: being less independent in the delivery of of client service 619 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 1: and UM manufacturing capabilities and more about leveraging one Russell 620 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:11,319 Speaker 1: and getting global scale as an organization. And and that 621 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,279 Speaker 1: was a cultural change, but one that everyone understood and 622 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,760 Speaker 1: brought into So let's talk about something that didn't change. 623 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: And you reference this earlier. The firm's core purposes to 624 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:29,359 Speaker 1: quote improve people's financial security unquote. Tell us a bit 625 00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,880 Speaker 1: about that purpose. Well, I think that every every company 626 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,800 Speaker 1: benefits from asking the question why do you exist with? 627 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,600 Speaker 1: What problem are you trying to solve? For? You know, 628 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,319 Speaker 1: how big of a problem is it? And are you 629 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,520 Speaker 1: making it easy for clients to execute upon it? And 630 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:56,800 Speaker 1: so those are just pretty core questions I believe, for 631 00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 1: for any business and for for our history. But fortunately 632 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:08,440 Speaker 1: for our company, we we had a founding family that 633 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:13,560 Speaker 1: understood that years ago, and so I didn't have to 634 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:19,000 Speaker 1: change a thing. And it actually was part of kind 635 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:23,319 Speaker 1: of my my mantra as an industry leader, even when 636 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,240 Speaker 1: I was at Blair, that we needed to get back 637 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 1: to the roots of what our industry was built for 638 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,080 Speaker 1: and why it existed. And and that's too, you know, 639 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 1: efficiently invest um people's savings for ultimately their financial security, 640 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,960 Speaker 1: which we're not doing a great job at as an industry. Uh. 641 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,759 Speaker 1: And it's also for the effective deployment of capital. And 642 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:54,480 Speaker 1: so that why is really important. I can't tell you 643 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,919 Speaker 1: how many times I talk about it, how I bring 644 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,839 Speaker 1: it to life with the individuals, the companies, and ultimately 645 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:06,680 Speaker 1: the individuals that rely on those company benefit plans for 646 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:11,800 Speaker 1: their own financial security and their future. I talk about 647 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 1: it all the time, and it does make its way 648 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,640 Speaker 1: into everything that we do. It makes its way into 649 00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,520 Speaker 1: how we think about creating products and how we service 650 00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:29,480 Speaker 1: um our clients. UM We don't talk about um we 651 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:33,600 Speaker 1: don't talk about selling products or beating benchmarks. We talk 652 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:41,440 Speaker 1: about servicing um our clients and creating strategies for outcomes. 653 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,200 Speaker 1: And I think all of that goes back to being 654 00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:49,319 Speaker 1: very grounded and why why we exist and what we 655 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 1: do and how we do it. So I just believe 656 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 1: it's it's core to any business, it's core to our industry. Unfortunately, 657 00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,960 Speaker 1: it's been core to Russell since the day the Russell 658 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:07,360 Speaker 1: family opened the doors. Really kind of interesting. Let's discuss 659 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:12,839 Speaker 1: your strategic partnership with Hamilton's Lane. Tell us about your 660 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:17,480 Speaker 1: thoughts on private equity and alternatives and what motivated uh 661 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:22,200 Speaker 1: this new relationship. Well, I think it ties. It ties 662 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:29,440 Speaker 1: into UM again being agnostic about how you define adding 663 00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,719 Speaker 1: value to the clients, right, I mean you you want 664 00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:40,560 Speaker 1: to provide access to every asset, class, capability vehicle UM 665 00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:44,120 Speaker 1: passive versus active that you possibly can in order to 666 00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 1: deliver upon the promise you're making the clients, which is 667 00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:53,240 Speaker 1: to understand their objectives and and deliver access and tailored 668 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:58,040 Speaker 1: solutions to meet that. UM. Private markets has has grown 669 00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:05,440 Speaker 1: in its criticality to investing and capturing the illiquidity premium, 670 00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:09,760 Speaker 1: especially when you're trying to solve for long dated liabilities 671 00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:14,120 Speaker 1: like you are in a defined benefit plan, like individuals 672 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:19,840 Speaker 1: are with defined contribution plans. Most people have much longer 673 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:27,440 Speaker 1: dated time horizons than our industry is measuring for and 674 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:34,279 Speaker 1: is geared toward and so the lack of exposure to 675 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:41,680 Speaker 1: private markets to date has been UM a missed opportunity, 676 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:46,480 Speaker 1: both for institutions as well as individuals, and this was 677 00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:52,080 Speaker 1: an area of UH number one criticality of access in 678 00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:57,160 Speaker 1: a responsible but very broad manner. UM Russell has been 679 00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:01,000 Speaker 1: investing in private markets for decades. So it's not as 680 00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,680 Speaker 1: though we were new to the assets space or new 681 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:08,040 Speaker 1: or to the asset class or introducing it to our clients. 682 00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:13,520 Speaker 1: But we we and I felt the sense of urgency 683 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:19,120 Speaker 1: to deliver more co investments secondary investments, but do so 684 00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:25,120 Speaker 1: an open architecture format. And so I did start down 685 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:29,320 Speaker 1: this path frankly fully assuming that we would either acquire 686 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:34,400 Speaker 1: for capabilities that we felt we needed to ramp more quickly, 687 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:40,160 Speaker 1: or I would build for it strategically. Partnering for it 688 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:45,040 Speaker 1: is not the norm, at least for our industry. We 689 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:48,319 Speaker 1: tend to acquire or build UM, but this is a 690 00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,400 Speaker 1: very different time for our industry. And again tying it 691 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:55,000 Speaker 1: back to the purpose, if our purpose is to deliver 692 00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:59,640 Speaker 1: on financial security UM, the sense of urgency and that 693 00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:04,400 Speaker 1: NED is very very high UM, and so a strategic 694 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:09,360 Speaker 1: partnership specifically with Hamilton's Lane fit for many many reasons, 695 00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:13,319 Speaker 1: and that is just the full power of a firm 696 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,040 Speaker 1: UH number one that's been doing it for eighty five 697 00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:21,200 Speaker 1: years in total portfolio solutions across all asset classes, paired 698 00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,560 Speaker 1: with a firm that's been doing only private markets for 699 00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,759 Speaker 1: the last thirty years in an open architecture fashion. So 700 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:33,200 Speaker 1: looking for the best of breed UH managers in venture, 701 00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:38,400 Speaker 1: private equity, private credit, UM, infrastructure, real estate, UM just 702 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:43,960 Speaker 1: across the board real assets was incredibly important to us. 703 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,240 Speaker 1: We're not saying that UM Hamilton's Lane is the only 704 00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:54,480 Speaker 1: source of our capabilities. We still have all fiduciary um 705 00:54:54,600 --> 00:55:00,120 Speaker 1: UH power to operate with Hamilton's Lane as well as 706 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:04,640 Speaker 1: tap into other areas of expertise as we believe that 707 00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:09,160 Speaker 1: we need to. But Hamilton's Lane is a very powerful 708 00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:15,840 Speaker 1: partner for us to offer access as well as manager 709 00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:21,400 Speaker 1: research data and most importantly, risk controls looking across the 710 00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:27,319 Speaker 1: entire UH total portfolio public to private markets. So you know, 711 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:32,360 Speaker 1: it's it's just an incredibly important time in the industry. UM. 712 00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,319 Speaker 1: You've reported I think in in past UM podcast, but 713 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,440 Speaker 1: also I think you might have had Hamilton's Lane CEO 714 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:43,839 Speaker 1: Mario um on the on the podcast as well. UM, 715 00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,480 Speaker 1: but it's it's you know, there are more private companies 716 00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:51,920 Speaker 1: seventeen thousand, to be exact, over a hundred million dollars 717 00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:57,239 Speaker 1: in revenues relative to hundred in the public markets, and 718 00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:04,880 Speaker 1: so limiting yourself to only of the investable large company 719 00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,920 Speaker 1: universe if you're only a public markets investor, just makes 720 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:13,240 Speaker 1: no sense. And so as quickly as we can responsibly 721 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:20,080 Speaker 1: offer this and democratize access to private markets, UM, with 722 00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,759 Speaker 1: the power of Hamilton's Lane, is what we want to do, 723 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:28,080 Speaker 1: both for the individual Welsh market, UM, but importantly the 724 00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:33,040 Speaker 1: middle market for institutions as well as even large markets. Yeah. 725 00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:38,520 Speaker 1: The the interview with Mario Giannini was October, which is 726 00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,359 Speaker 1: what made that jump off the page when I saw 727 00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:46,200 Speaker 1: you guys had a strategic partnership. Let me ask you 728 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:51,279 Speaker 1: a somewhat related question about a quote of yours. I've 729 00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:56,240 Speaker 1: interviewed a number of female CEOs over the years, Christina 730 00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:00,200 Speaker 1: Hartzeller Zavoya, Gene Hynes at Wellington, Catherine Keating at b 731 00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,319 Speaker 1: n Y, Melon, Penny Pennington at Ed Jones, But you 732 00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:09,360 Speaker 1: had to quote that really caught my ear, which involved 733 00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:15,040 Speaker 1: the rarity and responsibility of your position. Could you explain 734 00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,280 Speaker 1: what you mean by that? What what is the rarity 735 00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:25,120 Speaker 1: and responsibility of a female CEO in the financial services industry? Well, 736 00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,880 Speaker 1: I would say, first, UM, you know, we we all 737 00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:32,880 Speaker 1: know it's a rarity. Um, they're all of the women 738 00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,160 Speaker 1: you mentioned, plus many many more are coming through the ranks. 739 00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,760 Speaker 1: Kate L. Hillo, I would mention as well, UM, my 740 00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,400 Speaker 1: global ce IO that I was proud to bring on 741 00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,880 Speaker 1: board from Goldman UM. So I'm very I think we're 742 00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,920 Speaker 1: even in more rarefied air to have a woman CEO 743 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:57,280 Speaker 1: and a woman ce IO UH running a major investment institution. 744 00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,360 Speaker 1: So I'm excited about that. But she was the the 745 00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:05,880 Speaker 1: best person for the job. And I think the responsibility 746 00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:14,280 Speaker 1: is too is to give voice to authenticity and two 747 00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:23,160 Speaker 1: certainly learn from every leader and person that you come across. 748 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,920 Speaker 1: And I've had the great benefit of being surrounded by 749 00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:34,920 Speaker 1: mostly men, but wonderful mentors and important leaders, and my 750 00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:39,960 Speaker 1: approach I've felt very self assured in, but it was 751 00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:46,600 Speaker 1: very uniquely mine uh. And I think the responsibility is 752 00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:51,120 Speaker 1: to ensure that you're leading in a way that's authentic 753 00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:55,960 Speaker 1: to you. But I do believe that it makes it UM, 754 00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:01,320 Speaker 1: it makes it a more inclusive conversation. Uh, it makes 755 00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:07,360 Speaker 1: it more focused on outcomes and purpose. And I'm not 756 00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:12,280 Speaker 1: saying that that's a gender specific thing, UM, but but 757 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:17,600 Speaker 1: I do believe that operating in a manner that takes 758 00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:23,880 Speaker 1: into account the responsibility of the seat is incredibly important 759 00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:31,160 Speaker 1: because people are watching, UM. And whether you're UM, ethnicity 760 00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:35,280 Speaker 1: is different, UM, or your gender is different. You know 761 00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,960 Speaker 1: when you're when you're at the table, you you're required 762 00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:44,880 Speaker 1: to speak, and you're required to bring the diversity of thought, 763 00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:49,360 Speaker 1: the diversity of view, and and and make sure that 764 00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:56,000 Speaker 1: you're that your voice flows with the magnitude that it 765 00:59:56,040 --> 01:00:04,000 Speaker 1: should have to represent h your thoughts. UM. You know, 766 01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:09,320 Speaker 1: again constructively, appropriately, collaboratively. UM. But I but I've just 767 01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:14,520 Speaker 1: I actually said somewhere along the way that I've I've sometimes, frankly, 768 01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:18,320 Speaker 1: even most of the times, I didn't notice that I 769 01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,120 Speaker 1: was the only along the way because it was more 770 01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:28,480 Speaker 1: about solving the problem than it was about UM individuals 771 01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:33,000 Speaker 1: at the table. So the the the group intellect took 772 01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:37,560 Speaker 1: over more than UM, more than me feeling like the 773 01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,800 Speaker 1: spotlight was on me as the only Unfortunately, I'm no 774 01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,960 Speaker 1: longer and only, and I think that's just going to 775 01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:48,400 Speaker 1: continue to change it at warp speed. So historically finance 776 01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:53,920 Speaker 1: has been wildly underrepresentative of both women and people of color, 777 01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,280 Speaker 1: and it's been a long, slow transition, but it's pretty 778 01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:02,200 Speaker 1: clear that it's been changing. It's still behind where it 779 01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,200 Speaker 1: should be, but there can be little doubt that it 780 01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,080 Speaker 1: is so much better than it was when I started 781 01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:12,440 Speaker 1: my career twenty five or so years ago. You know, 782 01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:16,920 Speaker 1: we alluded to E s G investing earlier. Let's let's 783 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,480 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about it. There's been some criticism 784 01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:25,040 Speaker 1: about how subjective the screens are. Uh, some end up 785 01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,400 Speaker 1: just looking like plain vanilla indexes. What do you say 786 01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:33,200 Speaker 1: to this criticism about the state of environmental, social and 787 01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:39,560 Speaker 1: governance investment? Well, it's burgeoning. Uh, there is no question, 788 01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:44,040 Speaker 1: um that this this is not slowing down in its 789 01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:50,160 Speaker 1: momentum um or its import Uh. And again I believe 790 01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:54,880 Speaker 1: that this one, like many others, is a very complex 791 01:01:55,160 --> 01:02:03,520 Speaker 1: topic that we've tried too hard to simplify into messages 792 01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:08,520 Speaker 1: and products. UM. But I do believe it's only the beginning, 793 01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:13,600 Speaker 1: So I'll start there. Your your question was more about indices, 794 01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:18,720 Speaker 1: and um, the fact that there's been a spotlight on 795 01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:25,760 Speaker 1: UM the understanding of what these various indices or managers 796 01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:30,880 Speaker 1: for that matter, m have actually been been doing. And 797 01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,840 Speaker 1: I think that's that that is a responsibility of the 798 01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:40,200 Speaker 1: industry to more effectively communicate both the complexity and the 799 01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:45,840 Speaker 1: transparency of what the indexes do and what they what 800 01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,760 Speaker 1: they don't do. So let let me start with that first. First, 801 01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:54,320 Speaker 1: any index gives you a starting point, but the whole topic, 802 01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,800 Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about E, S, g as it 803 01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:00,360 Speaker 1: if it were one thing, it's it's clearly three very 804 01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:11,200 Speaker 1: nuanced and complex um UH desires or impact that one 805 01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:16,840 Speaker 1: wants to have, and not everyone cares equally about the 806 01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:21,360 Speaker 1: E or the S or the g UM. Typically there's 807 01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:26,880 Speaker 1: more of a focus for investors on some component where 808 01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:31,520 Speaker 1: they want their money to have an impact upon society 809 01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:35,479 Speaker 1: or they definitely don't want to be exposed to the risk. 810 01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:40,200 Speaker 1: And so I would say that while indexes give you 811 01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:44,760 Speaker 1: a starting point, you do need to get to the 812 01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:50,280 Speaker 1: core of what UM investors are trying to solve for. 813 01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:56,000 Speaker 1: And so I believe that that UH number one is 814 01:03:56,040 --> 01:04:00,400 Speaker 1: difficult to find out. Number two, it's difficult to fine 815 01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:05,760 Speaker 1: and it's also difficult to measure and it's difficult to predict. 816 01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:11,680 Speaker 1: So we we have we have complexity, we have demand, 817 01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:19,080 Speaker 1: and we have enormous need UM and so the drumbeat 818 01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:22,680 Speaker 1: for the industry and we all take it very seriously, 819 01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:29,120 Speaker 1: is very high to make advancements in e s G. 820 01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:35,880 Speaker 1: Investing and personalizing to those values at scale in a 821 01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:42,440 Speaker 1: manner that goes beyond managing the investment risk, which is 822 01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:45,800 Speaker 1: where I think these indicries get a get a bad rap. 823 01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:49,120 Speaker 1: And the reason I say it that way is that 824 01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:54,560 Speaker 1: you know they are reliant upon data that's disclosed by companies, 825 01:04:55,520 --> 01:05:01,800 Speaker 1: which isn't always disclosed UM, or there isn't clarity of 826 01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:06,680 Speaker 1: the metrics they should be disclosing or the materiality of 827 01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,840 Speaker 1: those things. So that's that's fast changing and I know 828 01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:15,200 Speaker 1: that UM the chairman Gendler is very focused on that, 829 01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:18,880 Speaker 1: and we should have something coming out with more guidelines 830 01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:23,360 Speaker 1: in the near future that will be helpful. UM. The 831 01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:27,880 Speaker 1: second main thing within diseases their backward looking and that's 832 01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,880 Speaker 1: a problem with the data. Right, so we do have 833 01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:35,000 Speaker 1: a data problem capturing the data from companies. How do 834 01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,240 Speaker 1: we define it, how do we measure it? How do 835 01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:42,360 Speaker 1: we define materiality. Then you have the complexity of you know, 836 01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:45,840 Speaker 1: is it is it Scope one? You know Scope two 837 01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:48,720 Speaker 1: or Scope three? You know, is it is it the 838 01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:53,600 Speaker 1: company's own carbon footprint? Is it? How scope to it 839 01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:59,400 Speaker 1: makes its way into uh the distribution UM or the 840 01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:04,640 Speaker 1: client UM and then Scope three as suppliers And so 841 01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,320 Speaker 1: this is this is just a it's a fast changing 842 01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:19,320 Speaker 1: critical UH and clearly societal UM demand that I would 843 01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:23,920 Speaker 1: say the desires are out stripping the capabilities at the moment, 844 01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,600 Speaker 1: and you've got to go back to how do we 845 01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:30,680 Speaker 1: all make it better? And how are we clear in 846 01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:36,520 Speaker 1: our messaging about what our current tools enable us to 847 01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:41,080 Speaker 1: do versus not and all pause there, But I'd love 848 01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:43,080 Speaker 1: to talk a little bit more about what we're doing 849 01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,640 Speaker 1: specifically in that. So let's get into that, because I 850 01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:52,919 Speaker 1: think that's that's really important. How can you make investments 851 01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:59,080 Speaker 1: that are reflective of your values and yet move the 852 01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:04,479 Speaker 1: needle still maintaining decent returns. Well, this this all goes 853 01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:06,880 Speaker 1: back to what I said at the beginning, which is 854 01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:11,840 Speaker 1: um Russell is dominant where the puck is headed UM. 855 01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:15,200 Speaker 1: It's part of the reason I chose and was very 856 01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:19,960 Speaker 1: excited to come on board to lead Russell because I 857 01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:21,960 Speaker 1: do believe we're at the tip of the spear for 858 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:26,360 Speaker 1: change within the industry and and that is in the 859 01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:32,280 Speaker 1: area of the s G bringing to bear our enormous 860 01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:38,960 Speaker 1: capabilities to focus on the total portfolio across all asset classes, 861 01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:46,400 Speaker 1: agnostic to whether you passively or actively invest. But nowhere 862 01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:51,200 Speaker 1: active investing can lead to the desired outcomes and be 863 01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:54,960 Speaker 1: worth the price that you pay for the act of investing. 864 01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:58,160 Speaker 1: And that is no truer than in E s G. 865 01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:06,480 Speaker 1: And so this is where active engagement UM active data capture. 866 01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:13,640 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not just avoiding risks or excluding companies 867 01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:20,200 Speaker 1: because of their industry classification, but actively leaning into judgment 868 01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:27,000 Speaker 1: and fundamental analysis and allowing engagement i e. Your investing 869 01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:33,680 Speaker 1: dollars to influence how companies think about UH, their allocation 870 01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:38,160 Speaker 1: of resources and their management to net zero or whatever 871 01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:41,559 Speaker 1: the goals might be. Maybe it's diversity on their board, whatever, 872 01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:45,680 Speaker 1: whatever goals are important to you as an as an investor, 873 01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:51,920 Speaker 1: and you want to move beyond UM climate risk, social risk, 874 01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:56,400 Speaker 1: or governance risk being an investment risk and moved toward 875 01:08:57,280 --> 01:09:01,280 Speaker 1: UH investing with your values and wanting to make more 876 01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:06,840 Speaker 1: of a sustainable, positive impact on the planet, on society UM. 877 01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,920 Speaker 1: Whatever the issues, maybe you absolutely have to lean in 878 01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:15,520 Speaker 1: UH to active management because that's the level of engagement 879 01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:21,200 Speaker 1: UH that allows you to UM use your voice and 880 01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:27,639 Speaker 1: your dollars UM to discuss with companies how they will 881 01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:32,880 Speaker 1: change or manage UH their companies to align to those 882 01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:37,599 Speaker 1: goals or not UM and that and that again comes 883 01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:42,000 Speaker 1: down to how you are choosing to build a portfolio 884 01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:44,960 Speaker 1: to that third dimension, and in this case with an 885 01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:47,160 Speaker 1: E s G investor where this is one of their 886 01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:51,719 Speaker 1: highest desires, which is what we find with trustee boards 887 01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:56,240 Speaker 1: and big institutional investors specifically in Europe and in Australia 888 01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:59,760 Speaker 1: and other areas around the country. But coming quickly to 889 01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:07,040 Speaker 1: the US, UM is there um there um bar for 890 01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:10,679 Speaker 1: reporting back to their board on progress that they're making 891 01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,439 Speaker 1: on net zero portfolio commitments and the like, not just 892 01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:18,080 Speaker 1: at scope one, but Scope two and Scope three. UM 893 01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:23,960 Speaker 1: is absolutely necessary and we've teamed with people like Planetrics 894 01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:28,000 Speaker 1: and other data providers to really give us that forward 895 01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:32,519 Speaker 1: leaning level of data. And you can only make use 896 01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:37,360 Speaker 1: of that and best use of that through active investing, 897 01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:41,479 Speaker 1: an active engagement really interesting stuff. One of the things 898 01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:45,400 Speaker 1: you said previously I thought was very interesting, which is 899 01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:50,360 Speaker 1: about half of people being born now, Uh, this this 900 01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:54,760 Speaker 1: decade might live to a hundred or longer. What does 901 01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:57,040 Speaker 1: that mean for the economy, What does that mean for 902 01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,879 Speaker 1: our health care system? And what does it mean for markets? 903 01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,800 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. We could talk about this one for 904 01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:07,200 Speaker 1: a long time. But I I love the quote, uh 905 01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:11,960 Speaker 1: that demographics is the future that already happened. UM it 906 01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:18,479 Speaker 1: barring UM. You know, outbreaks like the pandemic. UM. We 907 01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:21,720 Speaker 1: we we do know that this this is our this 908 01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:25,439 Speaker 1: is our world UM. And you know, on the on 909 01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:28,200 Speaker 1: the healthcare front, I do sit on a corporate board 910 01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:33,840 Speaker 1: UM sona biotechnology. It's a fascinating, fascinating field to talk 911 01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:38,800 Speaker 1: about UM life spans, but we importantly need to talk 912 01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:43,720 Speaker 1: about the infrastructure around the world to deal with this 913 01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:48,920 Speaker 1: aging demographic UM. And that comes in lots of different forms. 914 01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:51,800 Speaker 1: But but I'll focus it on the work we do, 915 01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:56,880 Speaker 1: which is I envision UM that you know, with increasing lifespans, 916 01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:03,160 Speaker 1: you certainly want UM equally health spans UM, which which 917 01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:08,559 Speaker 1: is very UM dependent upon science and much of the 918 01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:13,280 Speaker 1: work that's being done with with biotech and vaccinations and 919 01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:18,000 Speaker 1: helping this live better lives for longer. But it's also 920 01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:21,280 Speaker 1: ties into what we do, which is I think about 921 01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:26,000 Speaker 1: his wealth spans and ensuring that we could afford to 922 01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:29,320 Speaker 1: live to be a hundred and twenty right, And that 923 01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:31,560 Speaker 1: may not happen for me, but I'm pretty convinced it 924 01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:36,280 Speaker 1: will happen for uh, my kids and that generation. And 925 01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:39,120 Speaker 1: so from from that perspective, you know, it goes back 926 01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:42,679 Speaker 1: to purpose. Um. But but I've talked about this a lot, 927 01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:45,160 Speaker 1: and um you may have seen it in some of 928 01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:47,960 Speaker 1: your work, but you know, it was a couple of 929 01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:56,400 Speaker 1: years ago that the that the UMU Davos reported on 930 01:12:56,439 --> 01:13:00,680 Speaker 1: this that um, there was a seventy trillion dollar existing 931 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:06,200 Speaker 1: gap in what people need a retirement versus what they 932 01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:10,519 Speaker 1: have and growing quickly just because of demographics and math 933 01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:16,120 Speaker 1: to four hundred trillion by now. Those numbers are so big. 934 01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:18,599 Speaker 1: I see that people just like their eyes gloss over, 935 01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:21,840 Speaker 1: and so I always try to make things relative, to 936 01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:24,559 Speaker 1: make it, to make it relative to something, and put 937 01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:31,360 Speaker 1: it in context that that that annual gap is equal 938 01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:36,719 Speaker 1: to a hundred and fifty percent of the developed world's GDP. 939 01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:43,640 Speaker 1: So it's a huge number, uh, that we cannot afford 940 01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:48,000 Speaker 1: to ignore, and we also cannot have afford to ignore 941 01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:53,240 Speaker 1: that we are retirement infrastructure uh was was set up 942 01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:57,360 Speaker 1: at the late eighteen hundreds and then reaffirmed during the 943 01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:01,400 Speaker 1: Depression when most people didn't live past sixty. So it's 944 01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:05,920 Speaker 1: never We've never funded as a society, nor did we 945 01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:13,160 Speaker 1: ever intend for people not to be productive uh, productive 946 01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:18,960 Speaker 1: citizens for nearly of their lives. I mean we we 947 01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:23,200 Speaker 1: just we just can't can't do that, and we also 948 01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:28,719 Speaker 1: need to have infrastructures that that can accommodate that. So 949 01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:33,200 Speaker 1: it uh, it's a it's a big question. Uh, it's 950 01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:38,439 Speaker 1: deserving of solving, which is why I talked so much 951 01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:43,479 Speaker 1: about outcomes. I do believe in financial literacy. It's part 952 01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:47,920 Speaker 1: of why this became a very personal UM endeavor for 953 01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:52,600 Speaker 1: me is making sure that people understood the power of 954 01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:56,479 Speaker 1: compound interests. They understood the power of leveraging their hard 955 01:14:56,479 --> 01:15:01,720 Speaker 1: working activities to provide for their financi security. UM. That 956 01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:05,000 Speaker 1: went for my family, but also UM a lot of 957 01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:09,439 Speaker 1: other people that I've counseled over my thirty five year career. UM. 958 01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:12,559 Speaker 1: But but you can't you can't educate someone out of 959 01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:17,720 Speaker 1: a crisis. And I would say for our aging boomer generation. 960 01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:22,040 Speaker 1: It absolutely is a crisis that will pay for as 961 01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:25,519 Speaker 1: a society because it's the only way we can pay 962 01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:28,400 Speaker 1: for it. UM. But it's the next generation and the 963 01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:31,799 Speaker 1: generation after that that we need to interrupt the pattern. 964 01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:37,360 Speaker 1: And that's why I feel so strongly about making innovation 965 01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:42,639 Speaker 1: within the industry centered around client needs because it's quickly 966 01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:48,080 Speaker 1: as we can help people understand in real time what 967 01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:52,519 Speaker 1: they have, what they need, how long they need to work, 968 01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:56,559 Speaker 1: and define what their goals are, the quicker we can 969 01:15:56,600 --> 01:16:00,719 Speaker 1: put them on the path to financial resilience and enable 970 01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:04,519 Speaker 1: them to be empowered with data so that they can 971 01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:08,679 Speaker 1: make better choices for themselves. And we have not done 972 01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:12,080 Speaker 1: that well as an industry. And I'm very excited for 973 01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:14,200 Speaker 1: all the things we've been talking about in terms of 974 01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:19,880 Speaker 1: manufacturing and access, but I'm even more excited about having 975 01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:24,800 Speaker 1: an interface with the clients that allows them to um 976 01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:30,639 Speaker 1: to not be educated in a finance degree or an 977 01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:33,559 Speaker 1: investment degree or go get a c f A. In 978 01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:37,000 Speaker 1: order to figure out the complexity that we've made of 979 01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:41,520 Speaker 1: this system while still not solving the root caused problem 980 01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:45,680 Speaker 1: of financial security for people around the world, really intriguing 981 01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:49,639 Speaker 1: UM so so let's take that concept of the gap 982 01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:55,280 Speaker 1: in retirements savings and talk a little bit about the 983 01:16:55,439 --> 01:17:00,280 Speaker 1: lowered expected returns we see in the public markets. What 984 01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:04,040 Speaker 1: are your thoughts on other alternatives We briefly touched on 985 01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:07,360 Speaker 1: private equity. What are your thoughts on on pe on 986 01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:11,800 Speaker 1: venture capital and hedge funds as a way to offset 987 01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:18,479 Speaker 1: possibly lower returns from stocks and bonds. Absolutely critical UM 988 01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:23,920 Speaker 1: we should we should allow and avail our clients of 989 01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:30,240 Speaker 1: responsible access within their parameters and goals, responsible access to 990 01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:37,679 Speaker 1: as many forms of UM of investing as possible. And 991 01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:42,360 Speaker 1: certainly the advancements that are being made UM in the 992 01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:44,720 Speaker 1: you know, I don't want the conversation to go off 993 01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:47,360 Speaker 1: in these areas, but the the advancements that are being 994 01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:54,200 Speaker 1: made UM with um UM access to potentially different asset 995 01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:59,160 Speaker 1: classes that may grow over time through UH digitization, through 996 01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:03,560 Speaker 1: blockchain AP peer to peer investing, I think are very exciting. 997 01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:07,920 Speaker 1: And while they're highly speculatives and pockets at the moment, 998 01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:11,760 Speaker 1: I do believe that that also is a course of 999 01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:19,160 Speaker 1: technological change that will influence positively access to lots of 1000 01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:24,439 Speaker 1: different vehicles and asset classes that haven't existed today. But 1001 01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:29,040 Speaker 1: the here and now is very real in alternatives, I 1002 01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:33,040 Speaker 1: really don't even like that term because it's such a 1003 01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:40,000 Speaker 1: it's such a big category that gets lumped into one bucket, 1004 01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:47,080 Speaker 1: and the individual asset classes underneath alternatives quote unquote couldn't 1005 01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:51,080 Speaker 1: be more different. UM. But the the other reason I 1006 01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:55,000 Speaker 1: don't like it is we've traditionally talked about portfolio construction 1007 01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:58,760 Speaker 1: as a sixty forty you know, balanced mix of you know, 1008 01:18:58,840 --> 01:19:02,720 Speaker 1: stocks and bonds, and then we bolt on alternatives, and 1009 01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:07,120 Speaker 1: that's just not how we construct portfolios today, and it's 1010 01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:12,560 Speaker 1: not how any portfolio for an individual should be constructed. 1011 01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:16,000 Speaker 1: So it should tap in to everything that you mentioned 1012 01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:21,519 Speaker 1: as appropriate. We use hedge funds, venture real assets, real estate, 1013 01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:27,920 Speaker 1: private credit, private UM, private equity, so all forms co 1014 01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:33,439 Speaker 1: investment secondaries have to be managed very purposely UM, but 1015 01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:38,120 Speaker 1: with a risk control and an understanding of how those 1016 01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:42,680 Speaker 1: various parts of the portfolio actually work together. So, for instance, 1017 01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:47,599 Speaker 1: you don't want to spend all of that money and 1018 01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:53,680 Speaker 1: alpha exposure to a private equity managers say it's a 1019 01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:58,400 Speaker 1: growth equity manager, for instance, and not know how it 1020 01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:03,680 Speaker 1: relates to your public markets or your factor exposures or 1021 01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:09,960 Speaker 1: your indexing exposures. And most risk systems have not incorporated 1022 01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:15,200 Speaker 1: a total portfolio view so that you understand those exposures 1023 01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:19,600 Speaker 1: down to the individual level. What we've done instead is 1024 01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:24,679 Speaker 1: just put a risk a liquidity or illiquidity risk premium 1025 01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:28,479 Speaker 1: on many of these other asset classes and alternatives, and 1026 01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:35,280 Speaker 1: that's that's just a very blunt tool that we've outgrown, 1027 01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:40,200 Speaker 1: and so all of our efforts, again powered with the 1028 01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:43,479 Speaker 1: partnership with Hamilton Lane, but wife felt a sense of 1029 01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:47,200 Speaker 1: urgency to do it. This will be a critical area 1030 01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:52,200 Speaker 1: to tap into in order to solve for this societal 1031 01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:57,559 Speaker 1: financial resilience or financial security need and not availing yourself 1032 01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:02,160 Speaker 1: in a responsible way so that all investors can gain 1033 01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:07,519 Speaker 1: access either through their employer plans, even if it's a 1034 01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:12,720 Speaker 1: small or midsize employer um or eventually we're not there 1035 01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:17,599 Speaker 1: yet um but eventually tap into it through the wealth channel. 1036 01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:22,439 Speaker 1: We've given people access, we haven't, in my opinion, yet 1037 01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:26,200 Speaker 1: given them all of the tools to ensure that they 1038 01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:32,639 Speaker 1: have responsible access and they understand how alternatives broadly speaking, 1039 01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:37,760 Speaker 1: exposure is inter relating with the other investments that they've 1040 01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:42,120 Speaker 1: already made in their portfolios. Really intriguing and as long 1041 01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:46,160 Speaker 1: as we're talking about the state of investing today. What 1042 01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:50,120 Speaker 1: are your thoughts on things like defy and crypto. Do 1043 01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:53,519 Speaker 1: they have a place in investors portfolios? Or is this 1044 01:21:53,600 --> 01:22:01,040 Speaker 1: still too new and speculative UM twofold answer The first 1045 01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:05,960 Speaker 1: is when we talk about crypto, uh, there clearly our 1046 01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:12,400 Speaker 1: speculative bubbles UM, and I think unfortunately the conversation, whether 1047 01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:17,800 Speaker 1: it be around doage coin or bitcoin, distracts from the 1048 01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:26,200 Speaker 1: innovation that truly is occurring within UM, the technology and 1049 01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:32,280 Speaker 1: the platforms and the concept of peer to peer networks. 1050 01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:35,960 Speaker 1: So UM, I think you've had several guests on over 1051 01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:40,639 Speaker 1: time UM and and and lots of discussion taking place 1052 01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:44,760 Speaker 1: in the industry. I believe it's real. I believe it 1053 01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:50,719 Speaker 1: will be incredibly disruptive to the ecosystem, but I believe 1054 01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:55,880 Speaker 1: that it will be very additive and ultimately the core 1055 01:22:56,120 --> 01:23:01,120 Speaker 1: of innovation efforts as we move forward. However, like any 1056 01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:07,000 Speaker 1: um burgeoning field, and again again I aged myself back 1057 01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:12,120 Speaker 1: in the eyeball days of where every company was launching. 1058 01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:16,400 Speaker 1: It was highly speculative. Everyone thought that bricks and mortar 1059 01:23:16,439 --> 01:23:19,800 Speaker 1: businesses were going to go out of business, and it 1060 01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:24,120 Speaker 1: just wasn't It wasn't true. It was that every company 1061 01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:28,120 Speaker 1: needed to figure out how to incorporate the Internet. There 1062 01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:33,679 Speaker 1: weren't necessarily standalone Internet companies that truly turned the world 1063 01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:38,400 Speaker 1: upside down. There were a few, but they blended both 1064 01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:43,280 Speaker 1: the traditional business models with the new business models. And 1065 01:23:43,479 --> 01:23:46,880 Speaker 1: I do believe that that will be the outcome, and 1066 01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:50,040 Speaker 1: it will be a good outcome of the advancements that 1067 01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:54,000 Speaker 1: are being made with technology at its core for the finance, 1068 01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:58,479 Speaker 1: UH and investment industry. But I believe it's a it's 1069 01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:05,000 Speaker 1: um higher level impact than simply um distilling it down 1070 01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:09,240 Speaker 1: to cryptocurrencies. Um. But I but I do believe that 1071 01:24:09,320 --> 01:24:13,719 Speaker 1: there are there places for lots of innovation within the industry. 1072 01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:18,400 Speaker 1: We haven't incorporated crypto into our strategic asset allocation for 1073 01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:22,040 Speaker 1: our for our dB plans, we still deem it to 1074 01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:25,680 Speaker 1: be early innings, but clearly there will be a lot 1075 01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:29,000 Speaker 1: of winners and a lot of carnage along the way. 1076 01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:34,719 Speaker 1: And I would just differentiate speculation from responsible innovation within 1077 01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,080 Speaker 1: the industry, and I think both are occurring right now 1078 01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:40,640 Speaker 1: in that segment. So I know I only have you 1079 01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:43,640 Speaker 1: for a limited amount of time. Let me jump to 1080 01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:47,000 Speaker 1: my favorite questions that I ask all of our guests, 1081 01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:50,840 Speaker 1: starting with especially these days, since it looks like we're 1082 01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:57,040 Speaker 1: going back, um into more defensive crouch with COVID. Tell 1083 01:24:57,120 --> 01:25:01,240 Speaker 1: us what you're streaming these days? What's keeping you entertains 1084 01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:05,800 Speaker 1: at home? Um? Well, several things. We're a big podcast, 1085 01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:10,920 Speaker 1: uh family. Um. But but since you mentioned longevity and 1086 01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:17,639 Speaker 1: health spans Peter Atilla, the Drive is one that I 1087 01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:23,280 Speaker 1: listened to with regularity. Um. The other one, uh is 1088 01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:26,080 Speaker 1: Sam Harris. He has a couple of different apps. One 1089 01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:29,280 Speaker 1: it's making Sense, but the one I listened to with 1090 01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:36,800 Speaker 1: equal regularity is Waking Up, which is a meditation philosophy 1091 01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:41,120 Speaker 1: app um, which I find very interesting. And since it's 1092 01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:43,400 Speaker 1: top of mine, I'll give you the guilty pleasure one. 1093 01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:46,000 Speaker 1: While I was rapping gifts last night for my uh, 1094 01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:48,720 Speaker 1: for my for my kids and my family, I was 1095 01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:55,040 Speaker 1: watching the latest episode of Succession. I'm a season behind it, 1096 01:25:55,240 --> 01:25:58,599 Speaker 1: and I don't think I've ever seen a show where 1097 01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:02,440 Speaker 1: there isn't a single care Do you actually like everybody 1098 01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:06,559 Speaker 1: is just such a contemptible human being? Exactly? Um, let's 1099 01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:12,679 Speaker 1: talk about let's talk about mentors who helped shape your career. Um, well, 1100 01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:15,800 Speaker 1: you know for most people, uh, and for me as well. 1101 01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:18,920 Speaker 1: It's it starts with with my family. My father was 1102 01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:24,040 Speaker 1: UM was an instrumental figure in my life. I lost 1103 01:26:24,120 --> 01:26:27,519 Speaker 1: him six years ago. UM, but he was my my 1104 01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:30,840 Speaker 1: best friend, my confidant, uh in in my career, in 1105 01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:35,519 Speaker 1: my life, but also my mother. Early mentor in hard 1106 01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:41,760 Speaker 1: work and the human aspect of approaching of approaching business. UM. 1107 01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:44,680 Speaker 1: But but I would say early mentors from just a 1108 01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:49,080 Speaker 1: pure career standpoint, I had many. I learned from everybody. 1109 01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:52,360 Speaker 1: I feel like I still have mentors, and I know 1110 01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:56,080 Speaker 1: you're asking about early, but I really it's equal opportunity. 1111 01:26:56,640 --> 01:26:59,840 Speaker 1: When I think about mentors, I would say probably one 1112 01:26:59,880 --> 01:27:02,240 Speaker 1: of the most pivotal ones that you think of in 1113 01:27:02,240 --> 01:27:07,519 Speaker 1: a traditional sense though, would be Conrad Fisher UM, who 1114 01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:10,760 Speaker 1: is one of the greatest investors that frankly the world 1115 01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:15,320 Speaker 1: doesn't know. But he UM is phenomenal and was my 1116 01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:21,200 Speaker 1: predecessor um as um as head of William Blair Investment 1117 01:27:21,240 --> 01:27:26,559 Speaker 1: Management and very responsible for for many of the things 1118 01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:31,160 Speaker 1: I went on to grow from and impact while I 1119 01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:34,200 Speaker 1: was at Blair. But UM continues on to this day. 1120 01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:38,800 Speaker 1: So but I would say I find mentors everywhere, UM 1121 01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:43,000 Speaker 1: below me next to me, UM, I'm able to learn 1122 01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:48,320 Speaker 1: from everyone, and I seek to learn from everyone. Really interesting. 1123 01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:51,160 Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about books. What are some of your 1124 01:27:51,160 --> 01:27:54,639 Speaker 1: favorites and what are you reading right now? Reading right 1125 01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:59,880 Speaker 1: now is the code breaker Jennifer Dubna on gene editing, 1126 01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:03,960 Speaker 1: So that foots a little bit, um with my board 1127 01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:08,400 Speaker 1: director role with Sona Biotech. And then favorites. Um, I 1128 01:28:08,439 --> 01:28:11,200 Speaker 1: would say, you know, favorites I define as I dog 1129 01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:14,559 Speaker 1: ear them. It drives my husband crazy. I highlight them, 1130 01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:17,400 Speaker 1: my dog ear them, and I actually end up buying 1131 01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:19,960 Speaker 1: a second one, So I don't ruin it. Um. But 1132 01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:25,800 Speaker 1: I would say sapiens. I've always come back to fact fullness. Um. 1133 01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:31,439 Speaker 1: Hans rose Lane Um is a wonderful book, UM and UM. 1134 01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:34,920 Speaker 1: And I referenced that a lot. And then anything that 1135 01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:40,720 Speaker 1: Danny Kahneman writes or talks about I love. UM. So 1136 01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:43,040 Speaker 1: those are some of the favorites. That's a great list. 1137 01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:47,400 Speaker 1: Let's talk about advice to a college grad who might 1138 01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:51,160 Speaker 1: be interested in a career in investment management or finance. 1139 01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:54,960 Speaker 1: I would still say go for it, um. You know, 1140 01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:58,160 Speaker 1: just like I felt when I came in an that 1141 01:28:58,320 --> 01:29:01,000 Speaker 1: the best had already passed me and I missed the 1142 01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:05,880 Speaker 1: you know, threefold increase in the Del Jones industrial average. 1143 01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:09,840 Speaker 1: You know the end was near. UH, it never is. 1144 01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:16,080 Speaker 1: And I do believe that investing and finances core UH 1145 01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:20,360 Speaker 1: to capitalism. I believe it's core to a growing economy, 1146 01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:24,920 Speaker 1: and I believe it's core to solving societal needs. So 1147 01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:30,439 Speaker 1: it's not going away. I would encourage UM anyone coming 1148 01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:35,400 Speaker 1: into the field UH to drive change, ask better questions, 1149 01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:39,080 Speaker 1: and solve for really big problems in a way that 1150 01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:44,000 Speaker 1: people can live better lives because of your efforts. Really 1151 01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:48,120 Speaker 1: quite intriguing, and our final question, what do you know 1152 01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:51,519 Speaker 1: about the world of investing today? You wish you knew 1153 01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:54,639 Speaker 1: thirty five years or so ago when you were first 1154 01:29:54,680 --> 01:30:03,080 Speaker 1: getting started. UM, I would say, I might be repeating myself, 1155 01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:07,799 Speaker 1: but but I I really wish that I understood thirty 1156 01:30:07,880 --> 01:30:13,680 Speaker 1: years ago how critical it was that we solve for 1157 01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:18,400 Speaker 1: the right problems, the biggest problems, and and make it 1158 01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:23,920 Speaker 1: scalable so clients could actually execute it. And so I 1159 01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:28,320 Speaker 1: derived a great deal of personal satisfaction sitting across from 1160 01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:33,479 Speaker 1: kitchen tables and making a difference in individual people's live 1161 01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:46,000 Speaker 1: I didn't understand how urgent that need really was. Again 1162 01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:49,320 Speaker 1: at scale like that. The the high net worth business 1163 01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:54,240 Speaker 1: was always considered a practitioner business, and it wasn't scalable. 1164 01:30:54,400 --> 01:30:59,160 Speaker 1: Wealth management wasn't as attractive as institutional management because it 1165 01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:02,800 Speaker 1: wasn't scaleable ball And now all of the innovation that 1166 01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:09,000 Speaker 1: we're seeing today is exactly that. So I wish all 1167 01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:13,920 Speaker 1: of us had understood thirty years ago how critical that 1168 01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:17,640 Speaker 1: need was going to be with an aging demographic and 1169 01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:22,320 Speaker 1: how fast the clock was ticking. I wish we would 1170 01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:26,880 Speaker 1: have done things differently versus, you know, being so concentrated 1171 01:31:26,920 --> 01:31:29,400 Speaker 1: on putting all of our R and D dollars into 1172 01:31:29,439 --> 01:31:35,920 Speaker 1: beating benchmarks, which which helped some people, but it didn't 1173 01:31:35,960 --> 01:31:40,640 Speaker 1: help as quickly as it needed to. Quite quite interesting. 1174 01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:44,759 Speaker 1: Thank you Michelle for being so generous with your time. 1175 01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:47,920 Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Michelle sites. She is the 1176 01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:53,600 Speaker 1: chairman and CEO of Russell Investments. If you enjoy this conversation, 1177 01:31:54,040 --> 01:31:56,320 Speaker 1: well check out any of the previous four hundred or 1178 01:31:56,360 --> 01:31:59,439 Speaker 1: so we've done over the past eight years. You can 1179 01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:04,000 Speaker 1: find the was at iTunes, Spotify, wherever you find your 1180 01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:07,920 Speaker 1: favorite podcasts. We love your comments, feedback and suggestions right 1181 01:32:08,040 --> 01:32:11,599 Speaker 1: to us at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot Net. 1182 01:32:12,080 --> 01:32:16,120 Speaker 1: Sign up for my daily reading list at hults dot com. 1183 01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:19,479 Speaker 1: Follow me on Twitter at Ridholtz. I would be remiss 1184 01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:22,080 Speaker 1: if I did not think the team that helps put 1185 01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:27,439 Speaker 1: this conversation together each and every week. Mohammed Ramaui is 1186 01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:32,320 Speaker 1: my audio engineer. Paris Wald is my producer atka vlm 1187 01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:36,640 Speaker 1: Run is our project manager. Michael Batnik is our outgoing 1188 01:32:36,840 --> 01:32:41,600 Speaker 1: research director. I'm Barry Halts Human listening to Masters in 1189 01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:43,679 Speaker 1: Business on Bloomberg Radio