1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the wire to Hunt podcast, your home for 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm 4 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan in this episode number two and 5 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: seventy and today in the show, we're talking whitetail habitat 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 1: management with Tom James, an Indian hunter land specialist, habitat consultant, 7 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: and the inventor of the Ferminator. All right, folks, welcome 8 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought to you by Onyx. 9 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: And as I mentioned, today's guest is Tom James, and 10 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say right off the top, I really really 11 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: enjoyed chatting with Tom. Tom is currently a white tail 12 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: properties land specialist, and he's a habitat consultant, and he 13 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: films and shares his hunts for an online show called 14 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: The Management Advantage. And he also invented one of the 15 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: most popular food plot implements of all time, kind of 16 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: one of those all in one food plot implements, called 17 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: the Ferminator. But more than all of that, I think 18 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: something that really comes through in our conversations. He's just 19 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: a guy who really really really loves dear and working 20 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: on properties to improve wildlife habitat and hunting opportunities, and 21 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: his passion just oozes through every word he says, and 22 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: it's a lot of fun to be a part of, 23 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: not to mention, of course, the the expertise that it 24 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 1: brings to bear too. So, as you guys likely know, 25 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: I am personally fascinated by this kind of stuff habitat 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: work and management and improvement. But I'm also really into 27 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: the absolute completely opposite form of hunting, which is public 28 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: land hunting and d I y trips across the country 29 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. And I've been pretty fortunate 30 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: to be able to have the ability to go and 31 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: do both of these kinds of hunting just about every year. Um. 32 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: Inasmuch as I just enjoy that, I also firmly believe 33 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: that this diversity and experiences it's helped make me a 34 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: better hunter, regardless of even just the actual hunting. I 35 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: think just learning about these different styles of hunting and 36 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: these different aspects of knowledge about deer and what dear 37 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: need and what dear want, and how dear use habitat, 38 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 1: how dear you know, or on the opposite side, how 39 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: to find highly pressured deer in public land, how to 40 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: set up on deer without being a minipal habitat, All 41 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: those different facets of this this thing that we love 42 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: related deer hunting, it all helps. I think it all 43 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: has has helped make me a more well rounded hunter. 44 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: And I do think that these these diverse topics can 45 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: help you too, regardless of what style of hunting and 46 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 1: you do. Most I think there's something we learned from 47 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: all of these things. Um So in today's example, you know, 48 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: with Tom, we dive into some really interesting things about 49 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: you know, how dear relate to tim or what deer 50 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: need from cover um and on the side of things 51 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: that comes to you know, if you actually want to 52 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: own a small piece of ground someday or get a 53 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: small lease someday. Um Man. The topics we cover this 54 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: one are really, really really about relevant stuff like, you know, 55 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: how to price out land, how to find land and 56 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: determine how much it's worth, how to determine what you 57 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: should actually try offering, what's a fair price. We get 58 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: into some really interesting things about old field type habitat, 59 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: what dear need from early successional habitat, how to improve fields, 60 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: how to build cover out of nothing, um how to 61 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: manage timber, how to make money from timber um. And 62 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: then of course you know, we talked food too, which 63 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: is something that we we use white tailed guys and 64 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: girls usually let's talk about. So it's just Um, it 65 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: was just a really enjoyable conversation, one of the better 66 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: habitat conversations that I've had in a long time. And uh, 67 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: I think you guys really enjoy it. So probably without 68 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: me rambling on any further about how much you're enjoy 69 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: the show, we should probably just get to the show 70 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: so you can enjoy it. So let's take a quick 71 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: break and then we'll chat with Tom James. All right, 72 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: when they now on the line, is Tom James, Welcome 73 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: to the showtime. Hey Mark, glad to be with you today. Yeah, 74 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: thank you for taking the time to do this. I'm 75 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: looking forward to this chat I as well. I I 76 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: appreciate you reaching out to me that we're really busy 77 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: right now with with land activity, which is great. We're 78 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: getting close to spring, so I had to make sure 79 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: I blocked out some time for you because it's been 80 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: a crazy few weeks for us here. But um, things 81 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: are well in the land world right now. Yeah, I 82 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: guess that's a good problem to have, being being so 83 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: busy with things at this time. And I'm glad that 84 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: you were able to carver a little of time because 85 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: for at least a year now, maybe longer than that, 86 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: I've had you. I kind of keep a running list 87 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: unbeknownst to people, maybe the ears the ears start ringing 88 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: every once a while because I'm thinking about them or 89 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: typing up their name. But I had this running list 90 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: of folks that I think would be really interesting to 91 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: talk to on the podcast. And You've been on the 92 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: list for at least a year. UM finally made the 93 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: reached out to you and made it happen. So I found. 94 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: I can't remember when I first you came on my 95 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: radar for but you you popped up with a big 96 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: flashing red light for me maybe a year and a 97 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: half ago or so when my colleagues Spenser interviewed you 98 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: for one of our short little white tail properties segments 99 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: that we run most episodes, and um and just like 100 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: a minute long segment. I just thought what you had 101 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: to say was was so compelling and interesting. I was like, 102 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: this is the guy I want to pick his brain 103 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: in more detail about how you approach managing properties, hunting 104 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: white tails, managing white tails, all that kind of stuff 105 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: that we love to do. It seems like you've got 106 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: just a wealth of experience and kind of selfishly very 107 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: relevant experience to me because I'm down in southern Michigan 108 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: and you're in central Indiana, right, Yeah, so we're kind 109 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: of in the same kind of neck of the woods. 110 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: And uh, I'm I'm interested to see how you're doing 111 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: these things, So correct me if I'm wrong or from 112 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: missing anything here, Tom, But you are a white tail 113 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: properties land specialist, you do habitat consulting work, uh, you 114 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: film uh for the management advantage, and you also invented 115 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,559 Speaker 1: the ferminator. How do you have time to do anything 116 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: else with all these different projects you've been up to? 117 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: Good question. I guess I'm just wired that way. I'm 118 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: a restless sort of a person. So if I'm sitting 119 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: around and nothing's happening, most people would call that a positive, 120 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: you know, being able to relax and just kill for 121 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: a little bit. But that's never been me. I'm just 122 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: a go getter, constantly motivated, and I feel there's a 123 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: self worth issue with me. It sounds funny, but some 124 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: people may struggle with that too. If I'm not being 125 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: productive and feeling like I'm creating something, I sort of 126 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: start getting down on myself. I've always been that way. Yeah, 127 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: I get that. So, so can you give us the 128 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: the cliff notes version of how you got to this point, um, like, 129 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: how you got involved with things here on the not 130 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: just the hunting side of things, but how you transformed 131 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: your love for hunting into you know, what seems to 132 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: be now a thriving career. Yeah. And it's all really 133 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: been just sort of by default. You know, I didn't 134 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: really seek out any of this. It just fell in 135 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: place as time progressed by one opportunity led to another 136 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: to another. And you know, I look at that as 137 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,239 Speaker 1: sort of I don't think anything happens for by accident. 138 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: I should say everything happens for a reason in people's lives, 139 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: good and bad, and um, you know, I don't want 140 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: to bore you with too long of the story. But 141 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: going back to I was a young boy, my folks 142 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: moved out to the current area that I live in 143 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: rural Hancock County, Indiana, which is nothing but really cornfields 144 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: and soybean fields and patch woods and ditches. But It 145 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: was a whole new world exposed to me as a 146 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: young boy that was fifth grade, moving from near East side, 147 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: Indianapolis in a suburban neighborhood out to wide open fields 148 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: and little woodlots. And my mom would just open the 149 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: door and let me, you know, back. And this was 150 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: back in the seventies where things aren't as they may 151 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: have been, but it didn't didn't seem like um. People 152 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: were as as worried about what would happened to their 153 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: children as you are now. And I would be just 154 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: going days at days, hours at a time every day 155 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: during the summer, and then after school would be for school. 156 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,239 Speaker 1: I picked up small game hunting, rabbit hunting, squirrel hunting. 157 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: My dad gave me my first give me twenty two 158 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: rifle when I was a pretty young boy, because he 159 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: trusted me and respected me UM, And I was real 160 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: careful and I proved myself to him. UM, So I 161 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: was constantly roman. I think one of the things that 162 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: really setuate me into being a true outdoorsman was the 163 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: ability to run a trap line. As a young boy, 164 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: I was waiting creeks and setting connabt traps for muskrats 165 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: and and eventually worked my way up to catching mink 166 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: and raccoons, and then eventually as I got a little 167 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: bit older, learned how to catch Now this is back 168 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: in the day mark when we didn't have cayotes. I'm 169 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: dating myself a little bit, but red fox was was 170 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: the prime predatory target around here. And in a good 171 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: red fox in those days, back when the fur market 172 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: was really booming, was worth sixty to seventy dollars, so 173 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: that was pretty cool, you know, in muskrats were eight 174 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: to ten dollars a piece. And here I was, at 175 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: six seventh grade boy running traps in the morning on 176 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: a high the three wheeler that was back before the 177 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: three wheelers were um considered dangerous, and I'd get up 178 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: in the dark and go run traps, and then again 179 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: in the afternoon when I got out of school. So 180 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: that really just solidified my passion just to be out 181 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: there all the time, you know, between small game hunting 182 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: and trapping. But it wasn't until I got into college. 183 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: I went to Purdue and I started in to uh 184 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: actually started in pre veterinary medicine school, but just basically 185 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: taking prerequisites. But when I found out how difficult that 186 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: school is to even have a shot at I decided 187 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: to change my majors to wildlife biology wildlife management. And 188 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: there's another addition to that story a little bit later. 189 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: But um, I met some really neat guys there at 190 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: school and and uh obviously guys from all over the 191 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: country and all over the Midwest, and was able to, 192 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: through some relationships be introduced to I guess be introduced. 193 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: I was actually given an opportunity to turkey hunt on 194 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: some some ground in seven Indiana where turkeys weren't anywhere, 195 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: you know, near me here at the time, and some Indiana, 196 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: and um I I drove and did some turkey hunts 197 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: and drove up to northern Indiana to some buddies that 198 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: I when you went to Purdue with, and we're experiencing 199 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: different aspects of learning the bow hunt. This is gonna 200 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: crack you up. But I couldn't afford a bow. So 201 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: my girlfriend's brother at the time let me borrow an 202 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: old Indian bow Indian brand name bow. I'm not even sure. 203 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it was just probably like a pound kind 204 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: of resembled a smaller version of the white tail hunter 205 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: the white tail from bear archery, and uh, three illuminum 206 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: arrows of different shaft sizes and lengths and different color fledgings. 207 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: And I was shooting with a finger tab and that's 208 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: that's what my buddy had laying around, you know, as 209 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: a spare, and I shot it and I got pretty 210 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: proficient with it. And the very first this was in 211 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: rural northeast northwest suburbia of Indianapolis, Carmel Arry, Hamilton's County, 212 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: and there was some woodlots up in there that helps 213 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: the deer, and which none were around my home where 214 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: I lived. But it was interesting to drive the back 215 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: roads in the evening and see some deer out in 216 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: the field feeding. And my girlfriend's brother had some connections, 217 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: and one thing led to another. We got permission on 218 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: a couple of those little farms, and one morning we 219 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: walked in this particular day and I'm holding that Indian 220 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: bow in one hand and clutching the three arrows with 221 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: lost on grain broadheads and loosely in my other hand, 222 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: and walked in the dark and found a tree that 223 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: I could climb and straddle a limb basically legs dangling 224 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: off of a limb about twenty ft up in the air. 225 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: And found a branch overhead that I could rest two 226 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: of the three arrows on and knocked an arrow. As 227 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: as luck would have it, an hour or two later, 228 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: a young year and a half old six point buck 229 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: made the mistake of coming within a bow range of me, 230 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: and I shot my very first deer. And that kind 231 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: of a scenario, without a stand, without an without ever 232 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: unorthodox equipment, but absolutely hooked me one from that moment 233 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: in deer hunting, so that that that was just everything 234 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: is just a building block, you know, one thing led 235 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: to another led to another. I continued to trap all 236 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: through college and eventually made some other relationships. My my 237 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: my wife, was a dear friend from high school, but 238 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: we had gone our separate ways and I was off 239 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: to college. But I came home from my my cousin's 240 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: wedding and I saw Laura, who would soon be my wife. 241 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: But we that was the night we sort of re 242 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: clicked and started going out again. Um, but right before 243 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: we got married, one of her best friends from school 244 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: was related to some folks that live out in west 245 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: central Indiana, and she had told me a couple of 246 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: times about they've got this really awesome farm and they've 247 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: got deer and turkeys, and of course you know how 248 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: guys are like perking up and listening, Hey, uh hey, 249 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: can you make an introduction to me for me on that? 250 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: And uh, actually that's how it happened when I really 251 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: first got exposed to just incredible deer hunting properties and habitat. 252 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: Was that that connection and back when a handshake and 253 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: it's just good permission was granted to you through being 254 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: somebody that they sat down and interviewed me kind of. 255 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: I went to their farm and stood around in the 256 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: shop with these these these men and their father. And 257 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed to say, but looking back, I was here. 258 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,599 Speaker 1: This was early nineties, and I had a mullet. I 259 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: drove my wife's car out there, and they're probably, you know, here, 260 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: these farmers looking at this young punk. And but they 261 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: were kind enough to give me an opportunity and I never, 262 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: I never, um took that for granted. I wrote them 263 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: letters every Christmas and took them gifts and thanked them 264 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: because it was really important and special to me. It 265 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: meant a lot. And um, those were the years I 266 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: really made leaps and bounds and my my hunting success 267 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: and understanding of reading dear sign and understanding properties and 268 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: lay out intopography and help bux. You know, that's we're 269 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: talking over a twenty year period of that. Yeah. But 270 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: as I got to a point where I felt it 271 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: finally felt like I could afford something. Um, maybe not 272 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: by myself, but I I just had that itch. I 273 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: had to I had to be able to call something 274 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: my own. Um. I even tried to buy one of 275 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: the farm fields that the small farm that I primarily 276 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: hunted those farmers, and they they politely told me they 277 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: didn't have any interest in selling it. But I had 278 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: to try. And I watched the newspaper every Sunday in 279 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: the classified and would open it up as soon as 280 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: it arrived and run through there and look and see 281 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: if I could find anything out in that county. That's 282 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: really where I wanted to target. And one day there 283 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: was a little I mean, I bet you well, I 284 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: can probably recite the ad. It's at fifty seven point 285 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: four eight acres deer and turkey glower, one acre pond, 286 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: possible contract and uh man, and the price was a 287 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: thousand dollars an acre, is right now? Was that a 288 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: good price at the time? Absolutely? Yeah, I mean it 289 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: was even it sounds low at the time, but you know, 290 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: prices now are three thousand dollars easy in the same county, 291 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: and um, I think the average then was fifteen eight 292 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: hundred dollars, so it was part it was priced below average, 293 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: and they were anxious to get it sold. But I called. 294 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: I called the guy and it was a Sunday morning, 295 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: and I apologize for bothering him on Sunday, and I said, 296 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: could I please look at this today? And he gave 297 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: me directions and I drove out there and then I 298 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: called him. I was coming off the hill and there 299 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: was a couple other guys walking up, you know, to 300 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: look at it too, and that's just like, oh my gosh, 301 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: I gotta do something now. These guys are gonna sweep 302 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: it out from under me. And yeah. So I called 303 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: him back and I said, is there any way that 304 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: I can this off the market today? And he agreed 305 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: to meet me in Indianapolis and I wrote him a 306 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: earnest check from a thousand bucks to get it off 307 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: the market, to get a pending. And I actually ended 308 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: up buying that property with a really close personal friend 309 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: of mine and he trusted me a dent. I called 310 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: him on the way home and he said, Tom if 311 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: you like it, and if it's as good as you 312 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: say it is, let's do it. And we bought it together. 313 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: So that scenario that you're talking about right there, you 314 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: see this little spot, you fall in love with it 315 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: right away, you feel like this this pressure of other 316 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: people going to snatch it up. I gotta believe that 317 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: happens to a lot of people. I can feel it 318 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: happening to me. Um Is, there is there a risk 319 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: though with that, because I've always tried to like so well, 320 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: I guess let me take a step back. I personally 321 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: am exploring a similar scenario as you laid out there. 322 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: I've for a long time wanted to try to buy 323 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: a small little piece to try to, you know, just 324 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: to dabble in this kind of thing experience. And finally 325 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: you we've we've had Dan Prez on the show and 326 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: different folks who have talked over and over about how 327 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: you can get a small property at a decent rate, 328 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: find ways to earn some additional and come off of 329 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: it and slowly build it up and someday flip it 330 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: and then buy a little bit bigger property and you 331 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: can kind of work your way up the ladder. Um. 332 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: So it's always been like a dream for a long 333 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: time of mine. Now I'm finally wondering like maybe I could, 334 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 1: maybe I could try. So I'm starting to explore some 335 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: things right now. So all these things we're gonna be 336 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: talking about here, you know, selfishly, I'm hoping it's going 337 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: to help me through this process if it happens. Yeah, 338 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: And so so I can already see like going out 339 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: and stepping on stepping on a property, it's so easy 340 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: to to fall in love with it and be like, 341 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is so cool. I can envision 342 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: hanging to stand here and hanging a food or putting 343 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: a food plot here, and I bet you I could 344 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: access right here. Um, I'm already seeing how easy it 345 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: is to to get stuck on something and then never 346 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: look at anything else, or become so attached to it 347 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: that you're not able to look at the potential downstads 348 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: or things like that. So I'm trying to like find 349 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: a way to keep myself mentally in check and not 350 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: fall into that temptation. But I it's probably losing battle. 351 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: So I hear you exactly go ahead, and I'm finished 352 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: with your question, because I've already got some pre preformed 353 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: responses for you perfect so basically that I'm just kind 354 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 1: of curious, like, what do you think about that? How 355 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: should someone be thinking about that? Sounds like it kind 356 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: of worked out for you, but maybe it could have 357 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: been a dangerous thing to fall in love with it 358 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: so quickly for other people. Is that true? Is that 359 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: a concern? It is? It is true. I have seen 360 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: both sides of the coin, though. I've seen properties that 361 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: were just incredible, and you know, and I see a 362 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: lot of properties every day, as you can imagine, and 363 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: I've taken guys on properties that I would die for 364 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: if I were in their shoes, and they just are 365 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: They're so selective and um, las fair about it that 366 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: they you know, I'll think about it and I'll talk 367 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: it over, and you know, I completely agree with don't 368 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: force it, don't don't create a sense of urgency if 369 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: they're isn't one, Um, take your time, think it through, 370 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: look at plenty of properties. Don't just settle on the 371 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: very first thing that you see. However, I think there's 372 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: something completely intuitive within a person if you're on a 373 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: on a property and it just absolutely speaks to you 374 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: and you feel a sense of my gosh, this just 375 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: feels right and it feels like home to me. And 376 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: you know, there might be a few negatives that you 377 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: can look at and can you overcome those or can 378 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: you can you contradict those negatives? Are improve them and 379 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: turn them around? Um? Yeah, it's great for a guy 380 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: to have a sort of a checklist to go through 381 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: when looking at a piece. Does it have good access? 382 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: Does it have, um, some potential openings even if it 383 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: doesn't have food plot openings? Can I make some? Does 384 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: it have any open ground? What? What is the surrounding pressure? 385 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: Like is it in a good county that produces trophy 386 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: deer or better than average? So there's a list of 387 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: questions that are important to you as a hunter, as 388 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,479 Speaker 1: a landowner that you I would formulate and force yourself 389 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: to go down through that list, because sometimes you get 390 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: infatuated and you just the heck with the list. You know, 391 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: I'm ready, um, But then then you could you could 392 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: end up with some regrets. And the second side of that, though, 393 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: is I UM, when it speaks to you and you 394 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: feel right and the price is right, the prices within 395 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: what the market is substantiating for you with some research, 396 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: all you've checked into that. I'd say, man, I've seen 397 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: guys that are just are so so cautious and so 398 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: so afraid to make that jump that they've actually let 399 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: some really good things and opportunities passed them by. So 400 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: there is certainly a balance in there, and hopefully some 401 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: of those things that I've made comment about the list 402 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: and the details, um, if I may add this, I 403 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: probably think the number one aspect or detail about a 404 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 1: property that can make a great property horrible or a 405 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: moderate property incredibly good is your surrounding hunting environment of 406 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: your adjacent landowners. A lot of us we're talking small 407 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 1: parcels here, you know, and and a bad neighbor or 408 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: a couple of bad neighbors can make your life miserable 409 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 1: and make you wish you'd never done it. Now, there's 410 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: always the opportunity to influence those guys for the better, 411 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: and you know, impact them through management, and you're sharing 412 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: your success and trying to teach your friends and or 413 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: your neighbors. However, they are just some that they're just 414 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,719 Speaker 1: this way and they're never going to change. And you 415 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: know you sometimes you don't know that until you get 416 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: into the situation, and it's a little bit awkward when 417 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: you're checking on trying to find out information about neighbors 418 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: and how they hunt. And but hopefully you've got a 419 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,360 Speaker 1: buddy or a contact or an agent that's representing you well, um, 420 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: you know, as a white tail properties agent, we try 421 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: to find that out for our buyers, because if there's 422 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: a tree stand on every side of the property, you 423 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: tend feed off the line facing again I'm going to 424 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: tell you, you you know, and maybe maybe that's a scenario 425 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: that you can that you can remedy or or mediate, 426 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: but sometimes you can't. Um. But that that's probably in 427 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: the Midwest, especially in some more more the populated areas 428 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: of the of the not too far off a drive 429 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: out of town, that's what you're going to find. Um. 430 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: But when you find one that has no pressure, no 431 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: hunting evidence around you, maybe you hear through the grapevine 432 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,360 Speaker 1: that this landowner next door doesn't allow hunting at all, 433 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: that's just an I mean, that's a gold mine when 434 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: you can find those kind of situations. I actually, Mark, 435 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,719 Speaker 1: I I just defaulted into a great, a great scenario. Um. 436 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: I have an adjacent landowner that has a huge parcel 437 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: next door to me, and they don't. Um, they don't 438 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: take on they just let a couple of people hunt. 439 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: And they've been that way all through the time that 440 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: I've owned, so I've ended up with a really good, 441 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,239 Speaker 1: low pressure scenario next door to me. And I just, man, 442 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: I can find count my lucky stars every time I 443 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: go out there, because it could have been completely the 444 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: hunter eighty degrees out is that? Yeah, Yeah, that's that's 445 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: great that it worked out that way. And I do 446 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: think that I have heard so many people talk about 447 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: the importance of that of that neighborhood. And and to 448 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: your point, though, it does seem tricky, like how do you, like, 449 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: do you just knock on a bunch of people's doors 450 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: and say, hey, I'm thinking about buying this farm, can 451 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: you can you tell me what you're doing back here? Um? Yeah, 452 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: it's an awkward deal. Yeah, but I guess it's something 453 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: that maybe is worth doing in a lot of scenarios. Um. 454 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: You mentioned one thing that I would be curious about 455 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: your opinion on, which was, you know, seeing if the 456 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: price of the farm was within what the market should 457 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: be in that area. How would you recommend going about, 458 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: you know, pricing out a farm, determining what's the fair 459 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: cost breaker, etcetera for a given piece, Because I feel 460 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 1: like if you're not within that world of real estate 461 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: or understanding what kind of you know, tillable land or 462 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: just non tillable land costs, all those things, like I 463 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: haven't found a great resource that I can like look 464 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: to this says okay in this county, this is what 465 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: it should be going for in this county, etcetera. Is 466 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: there anything out there way of doing this. I'm glad 467 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: you asked me that. The old way for us, even 468 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 1: as agents, was we we would have to just go 469 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: to the county courthouse and go to the recorder's office, 470 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: you know, and just be polite to the ladies there 471 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: and and gentlemen, but ask if you can UM search 472 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: into some of the recent recently sold properties, and um 473 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: they can help you out if they're really busy. Sometimes 474 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: that's not the highest thing on the priority list. But 475 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: that was the way to go to go about asking 476 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: for some reasons. Can you show me, UM, any woods 477 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: fifty acres are larger in the last six months or 478 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: the last couple of months that have sold, and you 479 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: can get in there in a database and find some 480 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: stuff that way. Recent sales are what we call comparables. 481 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: You know, something that's in the same county, maybe even 482 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: the same township if you can with a similar composition 483 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: of habitat types. Remember tillable land and timber tracks can 484 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: vary greatly in and there price from one county to 485 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: the next, even one region of a county based on 486 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,719 Speaker 1: soil productivity. And say, for example, in the woods, your 487 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: timber value, if you've got a well stocked, marketable, stand 488 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: up timber, it could be a hundred of thousand dollars 489 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: more than than a track down the road that's just 490 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: got average or below average. But the resource I'm going 491 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: to tell you about that we've just recently been introduced 492 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: to within the last year is acre value dot com 493 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: and it's it is a website that you can go 494 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: on and and sign up a membership. I think it's well, 495 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: I'm afraid if I I want to say it's less 496 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: than a hundred dollars a year. Okay, Um, I may 497 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: be wrong there, but it's been a while since I've 498 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: signed up, so I've I've forgotten. But anyway, you can 499 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: dial down to the specific area that you're looking in 500 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: and you can click on either click on the field 501 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: and it will show you what it's estimated value is 502 00:25:54,280 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: based on many factors moisture, crop history, soil tie, soil productivity. 503 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: That it will give you the n c c P 504 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: I rating for a farm field which might be next 505 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 1: door to your woods that you're looking at, and that's 506 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: like a standardized index for crop production that one through 507 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: a hundred. I believe is the top end is a 508 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: hundred maybe not second guessing myself anyway, it'll tell you 509 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: what the county average is and you can see how 510 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: that particular field compared to the to the county average. 511 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: But also on there is a soulds You click on 512 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: a sold column and you back out and boom, you'll 513 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: see all these ribbons show up with these prices, and 514 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: you just start clicking on farms and it will show you. 515 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: It will go back several years all the way up 516 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: to current and it will show you recent sales in 517 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: the area of what what properties woods and tillable and 518 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: combined have sold for. And it's a super great resource 519 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: for us. And we can also click on download the 520 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: report and you can boom. You can hit it, send 521 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: it to an email address and share it with your 522 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: buddy take it to the bank. You know, there's a 523 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: lot of ways you can utilize that database for your 524 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: for your benefit. It um. I will tell you when 525 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: you're clicking on a farm and you see you see 526 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: one down the road that's you know, just say it's 527 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: sold for a hundred sixty dollars and a comparable acreage 528 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: right a couple of streets over a couple of county 529 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: roads over sold for three d seventy five. Take a 530 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: look at that, because usually those larger farms, they don't 531 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: oftentimes break it down into improvements of what structures are 532 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: on there. So I would just really if you see 533 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: a high number or really known low number, probably tossed 534 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: those out because there's gonna be a farm shop or 535 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: a home or something on there that is positively influenced 536 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: the price. Or you may see one that was sold 537 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: from a dad to his son that is half price 538 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: of what you would think it should be. So you 539 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: just caution yourself to look at the lows and highs 540 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: and and maybe sort of settle in an average of 541 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: the middle ground, and and that'll that'll get you, guys 542 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: really close. That's that's great, great advice. That's a really 543 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: helpful resources. Sounds like I'm definitely have to check that out. Um. Yeah, 544 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: so so chat with the neighbors doing some research like this. Um, 545 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: what about when you're when you're walking a farm for 546 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: the first time. Let's say it caught your eye online, 547 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: or maybe you're working with an agent or specialist and 548 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: they said, hey, here's what I think you should look at. Um. 549 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: I mean I've talked to a lot of people, I've 550 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: done a lot of this kind of thinking myself, so 551 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: I know there's some basic things that you should be 552 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: looking for. And you kind of touched on a lot 553 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: of these earlier. You mentioned looking for possible places to 554 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: plant food, plus looking at the cover, looking at possible access. Um, 555 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: are there any things kind of next level that people 556 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: maybe overlook or anything that you just think is so 557 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: so important it's worth drilling into a little further as 558 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: far as what to pay attention to when you're you know, 559 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: looking at it that first time or doing some several 560 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: walkthroughs trying to make a decision. Right, that's a good question, Um, 561 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: sort of a thirty ft above the thing I would 562 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: I would sort of base things on or at least 563 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: maybe take a look at it. But of course, the 564 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: record books are really good sources. You can look in, say, 565 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: if my home state of Indiana, you can go into 566 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: the Who's Your Record Book or the Boode and Crockett 567 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: book and look at some counties that are that are 568 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: notable and producing more. There's a reason for that, and 569 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: that's nine times out of ten, and it's because those 570 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: those areas of state have highly productive soils. Soils create 571 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: growth for better plants, which ultimately create bigger anfers. Everything 572 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: is based on soil productivity in the end. So if 573 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: you can just if you have no idea where to start, 574 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: that might be a starting point, um and then and 575 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: even dial that down little, that down, a little farther 576 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: to townships within the county that might be more productive. 577 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: When you're looking at properties in general, like listings or 578 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: right ups. Of course, it's said that the mom and 579 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: pop real estate companies don't really show you anything other 580 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: than one aerial photo. They don't really give you a 581 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: lot of detail because just frankly, some of those folks 582 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: just don't know what what the woods is different from 583 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: the woods from the woods. You know, that's all the 584 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: same to them. But what when we list properties and 585 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: I know there's others that try to mimic this too, 586 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: but they were gonna show every detail that we can 587 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: that we feel is going to be important to a buyer. 588 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: You know, water sources, where you park, um, is there 589 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: a gate, how do you access? Is there a trail 590 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: system through it? Is there a pond for fishing or 591 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: other Is there a good cabin spot or a place 592 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: to put a camper? Is their power down the road? UM? 593 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: I think that that those are sort of baseline generalized questions. 594 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: Dialing down a little bit deeper. We talked about the openings, 595 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: but there's always a possibility of creating your own openings, 596 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: which is what I did on my place. But timber 597 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: value is a big one. And if you don't know, 598 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: um what you're looking at, and you don't know that 599 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:49,239 Speaker 1: the particular agent knows what timber values are currently and 600 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: what this property may offer you, it's always a good 601 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: idea to take take somebody along um or or have 602 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: you know, have somebody in your back pocket, a consulting 603 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: force or that you can call on for advice, or 604 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: maybe even take some photos of some of the trees 605 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: that you're seeing that are larger, because there's there's several 606 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: things to be said about timber values. And obviously it 607 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: will help you create an income over a perpetual period 608 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: of time if you're managing your property as a long 609 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: term sustainable timber property. But there's also the advantage of 610 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: converting an older stand of woods into an ideal white 611 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: tail habitat, which luckily for us, includes harvesting some timber. 612 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: And those two go hand in hand. So if you 613 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: see a big, giant set of woods with large trees, um, 614 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people who and over that. But that's 615 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: that's the worst case scenario for a great white tailed 616 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,719 Speaker 1: deer habitat. But man, it could create some income for 617 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: you immediately and then allow you to enjoy the process 618 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: of converting woods into ideal scenario for white tails for 619 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: food and cover, um, but also responsibly. I mean, we 620 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: could do. You know. I like to think about doing 621 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: a harvest on my property every to ten years because 622 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not cutting too far down into the 623 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: size base. That's I've always got a new crop of 624 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: of marketable trees coming on in five to ten years. UM. 625 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: Those are the things to think about. Prevailing wind is 626 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,959 Speaker 1: a big one for me to a lot of guys 627 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: have no choice but to be able to park on 628 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: the west side of their woods, you know. And in 629 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: here in central Indiana of the time, we have a 630 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: west northwest southwest wind. And if you're parking and entering 631 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: your property from the same direction every time, UM, the 632 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: mature bucks know you're there before you ever even get 633 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: close to the stand. In my opinion, I mean that 634 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: that's an over over generalization, but you know what I mean, 635 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: especially on a smaller piece, so wind direction and the 636 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: ability to um have several different possibilities or or choices 637 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: for points of entry is really key to to not 638 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: pressuring these smaller parcels and and and having the best 639 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: success and the most fun and hunting them. What was 640 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: that feeling like for you when you when you pull 641 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: the trigger on that first property? You tell me about that, 642 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: Just it's just complete elation, you know, It's just like 643 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: a dream come true. It's like winning the lottery. I 644 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: don't know, I can't explain it in enough detail, but um, 645 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: it's just jumping up and down, walking outside of the 646 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: out of the closing company, you know, in high five, 647 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: and man, it's finally happened. The very first, the very first, 648 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: UM one that's really truly going to be mine. And yeah, 649 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: it's a feeling I'll never forget. And I may say this, 650 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: you know, I'm fifty I'll be fifty three in July. 651 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: And that first piece we bought twenty three or twenty 652 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: four years ago. I get the same feeling every time 653 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: I open that gate and drive up there and parked 654 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: the truck and get out and just you know, to 655 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: look around and man, I can't believe this is mine. 656 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: And there's just no no greater feeling in the world 657 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: that really isn't. And unlike unlike some, I never was 658 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: really interested in UM flipping and turning and getting the 659 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 1: next I always immediately felt like, this feels so good 660 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: and so right. I just want to try to add 661 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: to this right here if I can over time, and 662 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: luckily I was able to do somewhat um of a 663 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: pretty decent edition just a few years ago. But yeah, 664 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: there's no greater feeling, man, just finally getting it done 665 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: and signing the papers and getting handed the keys, and 666 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,839 Speaker 1: the first day you go out there and the first 667 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: step on it, it's just it's just it's indescribable. I 668 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: can't imagine UM. And you know, you you mentioned that 669 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 1: additional piece. He guy, I understand that you had a 670 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: pretty nice scenario where a neighboring landowner was going to 671 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: sell and it was kind of bordering you on two 672 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: different sides. Can you tell me how that all came together? 673 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: And krimin if I'm wrong, but I think I heard 674 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: like it was a deal where you weren't sure you 675 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: could afford it, but you thought it's kind of an 676 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: opportunity that comes once in lifetime. I gotta find a 677 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 1: way to make it happen. Like, how did that all 678 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: come together? That's a great question. That that story is 679 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: just loaded with twists and turns and sleepless nights and 680 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: and feelings of despair. And I mean, you know, sometimes 681 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: a deal comes along that you can't afford not to 682 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: but you can't afford to do it either, And I 683 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: was trapped in one of those scenarios. Um not to 684 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: get too deep into my personal um financial situation, but 685 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: I'll tell you guys that when the market crashed in No. 686 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,280 Speaker 1: Seven and oh eight, I was still running a full service, 687 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: full time landscaping company. I had invested heavily in the 688 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: Ferminator food plot implement as you mentioned, earlier that we 689 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: had just created and we were really taking it and 690 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: launching it to the next level. I just heavily invested 691 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: in engineering and design and machining work and stockpiling product 692 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: for Manifest Acturing because we just released the Ferminator Generation three, 693 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,760 Speaker 1: the G three model. So man, we were just looking 694 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: looking at the future with just why eyes wide open. 695 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: I say, we my wife and my daughters, and everything 696 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 1: was looking great and the industry received it well. All 697 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: the all the feedback that I got from clients was outstanding. 698 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: Everybody was thrilled with the machine. And then everything just 699 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 1: went crashing down UM in a matter of days. And 700 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: I say that because I was still running a twentysomething 701 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 1: year old company that was we we did full surface 702 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: landscape design, installation, and maintenance here in Indianapolis, and I 703 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: had a lot of big in clients that we did 704 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: renewable contracts every year, and you start relying on that. 705 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: That's sort of like a just a cash flow. Obviously 706 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 1: was speeding my family and taking pay in our bills, 707 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: but I was also financing and funding these these side 708 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: things with that. UM. I didn't have any investors. I 709 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: did everything on our own. We didn't take any money 710 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,439 Speaker 1: from anybody. Well, you know, my dad here and there 711 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: gave me five grandten granted paid him back, But I'm 712 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: talking like big, big money, you know. So, um, when 713 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: when things tried up, I lost all my big accounts 714 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,720 Speaker 1: within a week, and a lot of the custom builders 715 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: that I worked for or didn't answer the phone the 716 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: next day, and we got left left to hang on 717 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: a lot of payables that we never got and I 718 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: had a big you know, I had a lot of 719 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: employees that counted on me, and things got really really tough. 720 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: Um And in to this day, I don't know that 721 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: we've completely fully recovered, but we're close. So we went 722 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: through a really long period of some just tough times 723 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,879 Speaker 1: rebuilding and trying to pay old debts down and make 724 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: sure everybody, you know, just everybody deals with certain things 725 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: on their own in different ways, and we we had 726 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: a tough goal about about it. And this opportunity surface 727 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle of all that, you know, and 728 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: I knew I couldn't I couldn't go get financed for it. 729 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: There was no way, I mean, I was just absolutely 730 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: no way. And I was trying to be really creative 731 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,320 Speaker 1: and and look at. That's one thing that I've always 732 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: I've always felt like if there's a way, there's a 733 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,320 Speaker 1: will I can, I can put the two together and 734 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: make something happen. And I worked really really hard on 735 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 1: that and I ended up I remember I was driving 736 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: down to I believe it was the National Wild Turkey 737 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: Federation National Convention in Tennessee, and I called um, my neighbor, 738 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 1: and I had been dealing with her son in law, 739 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: and I remember telling him, Man, I I can't believe 740 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: I'm getting ready to say this, but I've tried everything 741 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: I can think of, and there's just no way I 742 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: can do it. I said, I really really it sickens 743 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: me to say that. And I don't know, I just 744 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 1: I guess I've come to have a piece about letting 745 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: it go. And I really appreciate you letting me have 746 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 1: this time to try to work out a way to 747 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: make it happen. But it God's got out of plans, 748 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: I guess, because I've've run into dead ends everywhere I've went. 749 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,439 Speaker 1: And I said, the only only way that I could 750 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: even possibly do this because if you guys would consider 751 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: giving me a short term land contract, and and I 752 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: knew that wasn't their their preference. They were trying to 753 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: free ups in capital for for for family reasons. And UM, 754 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: I just remember hanging up the phone and just taking 755 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: a big side like I just did there. And and 756 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 1: I funny Mark, because I actually felt pretty good after 757 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,919 Speaker 1: some Sometimes that distress can really wear a guy out, 758 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: and and it had been on me on that deal, 759 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: so I remember it felt kind of good to say that, 760 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: even though I was about to cry. And as it 761 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: would be, he called me back um a week later 762 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,919 Speaker 1: and said, hey, we we've talked about this, and there's 763 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: nobody else that we would rather have this than you, 764 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: and we're willing to work with you on a contract. 765 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: And knock on wood, thank god they did that. They 766 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: did that with me. So um I was able to 767 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 1: acquire the adjoining sixty two and a half acres. That's 768 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: amazing and and that must have been a huge, huge 769 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,879 Speaker 1: new project and level of enjoyment to then kind of 770 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: see your your property and the projects you've been working 771 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 1: on to kind of ripple out through this new area. 772 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 1: Right it did? Yeah, And now um now I had 773 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: access to a lot of the ridges that I felt 774 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: like the Bucks were betting on. Um I had access 775 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: to a seventeen acre interior crop field that I knew 776 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: was an evening destination field for all the white towns. 777 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: You know, my my two three plots up in the timber. 778 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: We're basically just um stopping points for the deer as 779 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: they worked their way down to the bottoms. And we 780 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: had some great success with that. But now I had 781 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: a destination field that we can do some fantastic things with. 782 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: And it's funny that you say that because we just now, Um, 783 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: I'm ready to pull the trigger. Starting next month, I'm 784 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: converting that seventeen acre field to all habitat that is 785 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: still going to have some really large cove, food sources, 786 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 1: food plot locations in the end. One's going to be 787 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: corn and being rotational large eggs I say large. It's 788 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: gonna be three or four acres, and then an annual 789 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: field on one end, and then a clover buffer all 790 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: the way around it, basically a road warm season grass mixes, 791 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: big blue, Indian and switch um all through the sides, 792 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: and then a center planting of late holding oak species 793 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,359 Speaker 1: late leaf holding oak species for a tree planning down 794 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,760 Speaker 1: the center of it um you know, three thousand plus trees, 795 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,920 Speaker 1: so I'm really excited about that because it's it's going 796 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: to just take this to the next level. It's going 797 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: to take a few years obviously for it to begin 798 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 1: to take some effect, but I say three years from now, 799 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,839 Speaker 1: I'm going to start seeing some pretty big results. So 800 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 1: can you walk me through why you're doing that? Because 801 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 1: right now you've got a seven are destination food source 802 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 1: that sounds like there was pulling a lot of deer 803 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: into this area. What was the why was that not ideal? 804 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:18,479 Speaker 1: And why is the new situation better? Um, it's it's 805 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: more food than they needed. Number one. Um. That may 806 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 1: sound crazy to some people, but I think in my 807 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: area where I am at, the missing component is early 808 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: successional either old field type habitat of warm season grass 809 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: fields that that really big thicket brushy edge. So I'm 810 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: creating a thicket with my tree plannings in the middle. Um, 811 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,279 Speaker 1: you know, they'll have rows between them of weeds and 812 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 1: grasses and and I will plant them in a cover 813 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,759 Speaker 1: crop of clovers and and sort sort of keep things 814 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 1: at bay just to get the trees up and going. 815 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: But my ideal scenario is to let that thing flush 816 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: with tall grasses. Need need to waste tig grasses and forbes. 817 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,839 Speaker 1: And then let as the trees begin blow up and 818 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: they'll they'll be in their holding leaves. I'm gonna I'm 819 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,560 Speaker 1: gonna mix in a decent component, a small percentage I 820 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: shouldn't say large, but a small percentage of the eastern 821 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,320 Speaker 1: red seaters dotted throughout that just for a an evergreen 822 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: component in there. Not too heavy, not too light. But 823 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 1: I believe I'm going to be adding and providing a 824 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: new habitat type that is lacking and uh and I 825 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 1: really believe that I can hold more mature bucks on 826 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,760 Speaker 1: the property with you know, literally twelve or fifteen acres 827 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: of just thick, dense, absolute nasty bedding cover with great 828 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 1: foods right out you know, um a hundred yards step 829 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,360 Speaker 1: out of the out of the grass that that brushy 830 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,239 Speaker 1: old field habitats hard to beat, it is. And I'm 831 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: creating those alone with the warm season grasses. And the 832 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: cool thing is the clover road is going to be 833 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 1: um sixteen to thirty two ft wide, uh six excuse me, 834 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 1: sixteen wide all the way around the perimeter, all the 835 00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 1: way around the tree planning, and all the way around 836 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 1: the crop where every edge touches. There will be a 837 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 1: clover buffer road between it, and you know, for me, 838 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,280 Speaker 1: that's access, but it's also a firebreak, and it also 839 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 1: doubles as a great food source. I'm going to have 840 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,480 Speaker 1: chickeren clover, pringer clovers, and they're combined. So when you 841 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: add it all up, there's two and a half the 842 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 1: three acres of clover just in the firebreak all the 843 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: way around the field. And not to mention, you'll have 844 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: a four acre ag field of standing crops. I'm going 845 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 1: to leave the beans and corn stand every year that 846 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 1: the deer will finish them up they won't be harvested, 847 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 1: and a rotational cove at the other end of the 848 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 1: field which will be annual greens and grains, just to 849 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: complement what I've got going up in the timber by 850 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 1: the way. So when you add it all up, there's 851 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: gonna be I have four up there now, we'll probably 852 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,359 Speaker 1: have about twelve acres total in food when you add 853 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,280 Speaker 1: up all the woodland plots, plus the fire breaks, plus 854 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,360 Speaker 1: what we're going to leave standing down in the bottoms. 855 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 1: And this area is primarily outside of the food source 856 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,480 Speaker 1: you've created. It's primarily the big timber is that right, 857 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: big timber on the hills and large jagg fields in 858 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: the bottoms and on some of the tops. So you've 859 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 1: just got these real good traditional breaks you know of 860 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,280 Speaker 1: the uh. And there may be several hundred contiguous sinkers 861 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 1: of timber in certain stands. So it's definitely not your 862 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,000 Speaker 1: broken woodlot situation like I have over here in east 863 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: central Indiana. It's large contiguous because it's all drainage related, 864 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,800 Speaker 1: you know. So you've got some good topography changes, flat bottoms, 865 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,680 Speaker 1: nice rolling ridge hillsides, and then some flat tops. Yeah. 866 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: So something you mentioned this uh, this thicket you're trying 867 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 1: to create there in the middle of what's now a field. 868 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,040 Speaker 1: You talked about planning some oaks, you talked about putting 869 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,000 Speaker 1: in some little cedars. This is something I've always wondered 870 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,640 Speaker 1: about because I've wondered, you know, if you buy a 871 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 1: little chunk that's just a wide open crop field maybe 872 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 1: and thought to try to convert that into dear habitat, 873 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,319 Speaker 1: Like what would be the right way to create to 874 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: create cover from the ground up? Is it you know, 875 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 1: drilling in native grasses or warm season grasses and then 876 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,399 Speaker 1: that works up or something like what sounds like you're 877 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: doing planting some trees. But are you? And I might 878 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:07,640 Speaker 1: have missed this because I know you mentioned I think 879 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: you mentioned putting in some clover something within their UM. 880 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong on that. But what is 881 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: there anything else you're doing for the thicket part other 882 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 1: than planting the trees or what else is going on there? 883 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: Are you gonna do anything to encourage certain types of 884 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,800 Speaker 1: forbes and native things to come back up, or what's 885 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,160 Speaker 1: the strategy there. I'm really going to rely on the 886 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 1: seat that's in the soil bank, and I think that's 887 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,360 Speaker 1: a pretty safe bed across us much of the range 888 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,960 Speaker 1: here where we deal with in the Midwest. UM. I 889 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 1: will say the reason I mentioned throwing some cover crop, 890 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,719 Speaker 1: I'll probably put some winter wheat and perennial clover in 891 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 1: the rows in between the trees, just for giving them 892 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 1: a heads up advantage, headstart on getting a few years 893 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 1: and above competing adjacent weeds and um, you know, other plants. 894 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,319 Speaker 1: I think what I'm trying to accomplish there, Obviously it's 895 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 1: a food source, but I want to suppress some weed 896 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 1: growth until my trees can get several years of age 897 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,920 Speaker 1: on them and you don't have to do that. I 898 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,759 Speaker 1: know of many, many successful tree plannings where all you 899 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 1: do is throw them in the field. I say throw them, 900 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:17,840 Speaker 1: you plan them in the field, and the rows you 901 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,280 Speaker 1: go back occasionally with the herbicide and spray just along 902 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,400 Speaker 1: the trees, just in a band on either side of 903 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: the tree, and whatever happens in the middle happens. And um, 904 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,640 Speaker 1: I'm I'm prepared. I'm a little bit more of a 905 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,840 Speaker 1: maintenance freak. I don't have to have meat and tidy 906 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,440 Speaker 1: like I used to when I was younger. So I 907 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,680 Speaker 1: understand and appreciate a dirty weedy thing is a good 908 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: thing in many cases. But I want to give those 909 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,480 Speaker 1: trees a head start to not have um immediate competition 910 00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 1: with adjoining weeds that could can it be out and 911 00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,080 Speaker 1: and shade them in rob sunlight and nutrients and moisture 912 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,759 Speaker 1: from them. But my my plan is marked to basically 913 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,920 Speaker 1: slowly just let those clover buffer strips between the rows 914 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,400 Speaker 1: just just go back to native ants. Um. Now, of 915 00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:03,920 Speaker 1: course I'll keep an eye on that. I don't want 916 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 1: multi floora rose and privet and and Japanese honeysuckle and 917 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,000 Speaker 1: things like that popping in. But if it's ragweed and 918 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 1: brome sedge and grasses and things like that, I'm you know, 919 00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,600 Speaker 1: I'm all four. Yes, that's what I was kind of 920 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,040 Speaker 1: wondering about. So it sounds like there it's important to 921 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,400 Speaker 1: know to kind of know your weeds, know your native forage, 922 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,080 Speaker 1: and then to go on there and selectively select out 923 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,360 Speaker 1: certain things and apply herb sides to the bad stuff 924 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,319 Speaker 1: and then allow the good stuff to grow. Right. Yeah, 925 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: that's much much easier than trying to promote good things. 926 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: Just let let mother nature happen and you can spot 927 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,399 Speaker 1: and select and if even if you have a little 928 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,080 Speaker 1: bit more of a of a blanket competition, then you 929 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,160 Speaker 1: anticipated you can certainly, you know, throw a two four 930 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,080 Speaker 1: D on it to kill everything but the grasses, or 931 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,120 Speaker 1: you know, the other way around, or just do if 932 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,919 Speaker 1: it's it's most cases you'll find that it's it's easy 933 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,279 Speaker 1: enough to ride the rose with a on your four 934 00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,840 Speaker 1: wheeler or side by side with a tank sprayer and 935 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: at and just spot spray and you can really, I mean, 936 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,440 Speaker 1: one guy can cover a lot of a lot of 937 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,160 Speaker 1: ground and no time flat with that. Um, I think 938 00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,560 Speaker 1: it's worth mentioning in this time because there's obviously a 939 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,120 Speaker 1: lot of different trains of thought and a lot of 940 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:15,799 Speaker 1: attitudes about warm season grasses versus old deal habitat. A 941 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,399 Speaker 1: really good personal friend of mine and a dear friend 942 00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,600 Speaker 1: and somebody I respect as much as anybody in this 943 00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,839 Speaker 1: industry is Dr Craig Harper, and he talks a lot 944 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 1: about just putting away the mower and let a field 945 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:29,640 Speaker 1: just be a field, let it see what it does, 946 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: and it's and it's the as good or better habitat 947 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,880 Speaker 1: than anything you could plant, including warm season grasses. And 948 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:37,840 Speaker 1: I agree with Craig and a lot of levels. And 949 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:42,040 Speaker 1: I just think that there's uh the stands of warm 950 00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,560 Speaker 1: season grasses that I've been able to grow here in Indiana. 951 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,520 Speaker 1: One of the things that Craig likes to point out 952 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:48,480 Speaker 1: is that if you lay out in the field of 953 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,880 Speaker 1: grasses that don't cannot be out, you'll lay above polcas. 954 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:57,040 Speaker 1: He says, it's extremely hot. And I can understand that. Um. 955 00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,440 Speaker 1: And I've seen some poor plannings that haven't done as 956 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,799 Speaker 1: well where you the sun is beating the ground. Um. 957 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,080 Speaker 1: And maybe I've just been lucky and and and had 958 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,840 Speaker 1: some good soils to work with and some good successful plannings, 959 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,839 Speaker 1: because well, I've had some switched grass Indian a big 960 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,680 Speaker 1: blue stem plannings that you've had to take your arms 961 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,440 Speaker 1: out in front of you apart. It like you're walking 962 00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,239 Speaker 1: through a curtain, you know. And there's definitely shade on 963 00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: the ground, and they stand up extremely well through the wintertime. 964 00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: They're not laid over by a heavy snow. Um. The 965 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,520 Speaker 1: Craig's points are exactly that he wants something that's going 966 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,160 Speaker 1: to provide some shade, and you want something that's going 967 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,400 Speaker 1: to stand well in the wintertime. UM, So look at 968 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,880 Speaker 1: what works well in your area, or use a combination 969 00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,240 Speaker 1: of both. I'm trying to accomplish both with my personal 970 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,120 Speaker 1: property planning. But I've had such good luck with some 971 00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,799 Speaker 1: tall natives of the right subspecies, uh, cultivars of the 972 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:50,399 Speaker 1: species that that are that are worth investigating. I think 973 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,799 Speaker 1: the over craig and I absolutely understand what he means. 974 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 1: I just know that if I could show him some 975 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,760 Speaker 1: of my fields. And I'm not saying I'm better than anybody, 976 00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 1: but I've had some really good successful fields that I 977 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,120 Speaker 1: that I would love to show him or anybody that 978 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,520 Speaker 1: wants to see where a deer can can bet out 979 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,000 Speaker 1: there all day long in the heat, and as the sunsets, 980 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:09,920 Speaker 1: I see him stand up and those antlers pop up 981 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:11,680 Speaker 1: out of that grass and start walking towards you. That's 982 00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,160 Speaker 1: a cool feeling. Do you think is there any kind of, 983 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:20,799 Speaker 1: um certain scenarios where one would be the better choice 984 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,000 Speaker 1: than the other, Like is is the let an old 985 00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,440 Speaker 1: field be an old field the better just budget scenario, 986 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,720 Speaker 1: and then the warm season grasses is the better scenario 987 00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 1: if you've got if you want to invest or is 988 00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 1: there any way to help someone make the choice of 989 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:35,600 Speaker 1: which to try first or which is the better option? Great? 990 00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,040 Speaker 1: Great question, And yes, um, I would say for young 991 00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,319 Speaker 1: guys just getting started, and maybe you don't have the 992 00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,520 Speaker 1: equipment or the you know, the deep pockets to buy 993 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,200 Speaker 1: Let's face it, native warm season grasses can be expensive. 994 00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,000 Speaker 1: You know you're going to spend a couple hundred dollars 995 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,160 Speaker 1: possibly an aker um in those plantings, and if you've 996 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:59,440 Speaker 1: got anything, and honestly, this is another probably a point 997 00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,279 Speaker 1: where the will be different opinions. It's really recommended to 998 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,400 Speaker 1: have no less than five acres of warm season grasses 999 00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,680 Speaker 1: if you're going to do it at all, because that 1000 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,880 Speaker 1: the whole idea is you're creating a sanctuary in a 1001 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:15,239 Speaker 1: place where nobody goes. And but those small pieces that 1002 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,680 Speaker 1: size are very effectively hunted by predators and coyotes and 1003 00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,680 Speaker 1: bobcats can walk the down wind side of a three 1004 00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,120 Speaker 1: acre or five acre planning and and no any fond 1005 00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:26,839 Speaker 1: that's laying out there or no any you know, so 1006 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,200 Speaker 1: it's not going to quite give you that that size 1007 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,799 Speaker 1: advantage of the delution effect where they get lost in 1008 00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,200 Speaker 1: the sea of grass basically so far out there that 1009 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,440 Speaker 1: your deer safe because of the fact that just the 1010 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,800 Speaker 1: entirety of the thing so um getting back to the point, 1011 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,799 Speaker 1: you know, just think about it. Native seeds don't cost 1012 00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:49,680 Speaker 1: you anything. We're laying out there right now. They just 1013 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,480 Speaker 1: need they just need an encouragement. One of the easiest 1014 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,080 Speaker 1: things to do if you want to just try it 1015 00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:56,920 Speaker 1: for a year to see if it will work for you. 1016 00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,880 Speaker 1: Most native forbes and eat seeds are suppressed by sod 1017 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:06,959 Speaker 1: thickets of grass, and if you spray a fallow field 1018 00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,800 Speaker 1: in the waning days of summer into the early days 1019 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:15,320 Speaker 1: of fall, all that herbicide is going to be taken 1020 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:20,120 Speaker 1: down to the route by those grasses and killed. So 1021 00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,480 Speaker 1: Now you start the spring off with a dead layer 1022 00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,000 Speaker 1: of grass, but the seed that's laying there viable, waiting 1023 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,960 Speaker 1: for some sunlight and waiting for some water, finally gets 1024 00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,760 Speaker 1: triggered and can grow. So all you've done is spent 1025 00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:36,680 Speaker 1: twenty bucks on some glyphosate to spray, you know, a 1026 00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,080 Speaker 1: couple of acres of ground and a little bit of time, 1027 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,400 Speaker 1: and you'll be really really surprised at what can happen 1028 00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:46,000 Speaker 1: by just letting something go on its own, and you know, hey, 1029 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:47,759 Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with give it a year and see 1030 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,320 Speaker 1: what kind of component you have in there. Uh. Common 1031 00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,279 Speaker 1: ragweed is actually a very highly nutritious plant that grows 1032 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,440 Speaker 1: up in the first year, and it can be a 1033 00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:02,719 Speaker 1: really good, fortified foot tall, shady, broadly composition of of 1034 00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:06,840 Speaker 1: a fallow field. But if you walk out there in 1035 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,920 Speaker 1: July and August and it's bald knobs and open soil 1036 00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,319 Speaker 1: and very little this and very little that, then you 1037 00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,200 Speaker 1: can maybe understand that either the seed bank is lacking, 1038 00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,520 Speaker 1: or maybe you had also had in decent growing season 1039 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,560 Speaker 1: not enough moisture, maybe the soil nutrients are poor there. 1040 00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,760 Speaker 1: But at least it will tell you in giving indication 1041 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,120 Speaker 1: of what you might decide to do the following year. Yeah, 1042 00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,200 Speaker 1: Now can you explain to me the rationale for the 1043 00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:36,080 Speaker 1: timing of your herbside application? Why not UM spray you know, 1044 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,880 Speaker 1: first thing the spring, when everything's just starting to grow again, 1045 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,719 Speaker 1: so you could have a stand of new native vegetation 1046 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,960 Speaker 1: that first fall. Well, I think that the idea that 1047 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,759 Speaker 1: we're trying to get past is we want our our 1048 00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,840 Speaker 1: forbes and broad leaves to be dormant and and going 1049 00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,560 Speaker 1: into dormancy or gone. So the tops are drying down, 1050 00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,239 Speaker 1: but the cool season grasses are very liable and they 1051 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:05,320 Speaker 1: are flushing excuse me, they're sucking nutrients to the route. 1052 00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,800 Speaker 1: And the difference between that and the springtime is actually 1053 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,319 Speaker 1: is think about a tree, like a maple tree. The 1054 00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,919 Speaker 1: sap starts flowing up, you just get so much better 1055 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,040 Speaker 1: of a of a herbicide intake if you're if you're 1056 00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,839 Speaker 1: catching that plant as it's trying to store nutrients going 1057 00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,680 Speaker 1: into dormancy, and you're just going to get us so 1058 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,640 Speaker 1: much more of an effective kill. So um, But the 1059 00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:29,880 Speaker 1: timing is critical because you don't want to spray if 1060 00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:33,359 Speaker 1: you still probably what I mean waning days of summer fall. 1061 00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,279 Speaker 1: We want the we want your broad leaf wheats and 1062 00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,120 Speaker 1: forms to be dried up and brown and the grad 1063 00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:41,200 Speaker 1: This could be November, by the way, depending on where 1064 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:45,399 Speaker 1: you're at in the Midwest. Um, you know our cool season, 1065 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,600 Speaker 1: we're still mowing grass sometimes here in Indiana, and you 1066 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,319 Speaker 1: know before Thanksgiving that that you want to catch it 1067 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,400 Speaker 1: at the very end of the growing season, when that 1068 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,040 Speaker 1: grass is still green, hasn't been frost killed or um 1069 00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:02,560 Speaker 1: frost let not say killed, but frost um dormant, you know, 1070 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,960 Speaker 1: gone dormant because of the cooling temperatures. A couple light 1071 00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:07,920 Speaker 1: frost won't do it. It's going to be a more 1072 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,279 Speaker 1: of a freeze that sets that button to where it 1073 00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,560 Speaker 1: tells the plant Okay, it's time to go go to sleep. 1074 00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:14,920 Speaker 1: It's so so man, this is this is all stuff 1075 00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:16,759 Speaker 1: that's very interesting to me right now as I'm thinking 1076 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,920 Speaker 1: through different places I've been looking at UM and and 1077 00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:21,960 Speaker 1: very helpful too, because I think that you see a 1078 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,919 Speaker 1: lot of properties where UM to an untrained eye, which 1079 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,920 Speaker 1: I would say when it comes to identifying my my 1080 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,440 Speaker 1: grasses and and cool season grasses, warm seas and grasses, 1081 00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,279 Speaker 1: various forbs and weeds and different things of that I'm 1082 00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,839 Speaker 1: not good at identifying those yet to to mine untrained eye. 1083 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,520 Speaker 1: I can look at a place and I see scattered 1084 00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,560 Speaker 1: cedar trees, and I see some nice I see grasses 1085 00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:46,799 Speaker 1: laying down right now, and I'm thinking, oh, man, I 1086 00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,480 Speaker 1: bet you this is great, all this grassy habitat and 1087 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,880 Speaker 1: these scattered trees and everything. But it's probably some of 1088 00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,640 Speaker 1: those low quality grasses that you mentioned, some kind of 1089 00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,759 Speaker 1: brome or whatever it is that's very low quality. And 1090 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,720 Speaker 1: if right now it's all laid very flat to the ground, 1091 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,080 Speaker 1: that's another indication it's not the best stuff, right, um. Correct. 1092 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,360 Speaker 1: So there's ways that you can, as you just said, 1093 00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,960 Speaker 1: with herbicide, I could probably improve that composition through a 1094 00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:14,600 Speaker 1: little bit of smart management versus just letting what's probably 1095 00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:18,040 Speaker 1: a non native grass. Probably what's in there right now anyways, Right, well, 1096 00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,800 Speaker 1: it's probably a native grass if it's tall and has 1097 00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:25,360 Speaker 1: that that whispy look like a very common. Um. Rough 1098 00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:29,720 Speaker 1: field grasses is broom sedge, that's really really common. But 1099 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,360 Speaker 1: we're talking about the carpet grasses, you know, like your 1100 00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:36,120 Speaker 1: tall fescues with Kentucky thirty one, which is the stuff 1101 00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,320 Speaker 1: that the old cattle farmers used to plan everywhere it 1102 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,960 Speaker 1: has a broad green, wide grass blades. If it comes 1103 00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,720 Speaker 1: up in your yard it looks ugly. You see that 1104 00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,360 Speaker 1: clumpy grass out there, that that is a that is 1105 00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,120 Speaker 1: a preennial grass, and it's a sod forming, thicket forming 1106 00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:55,160 Speaker 1: grass that just outcompete everything. So the taller grasses, even 1107 00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,120 Speaker 1: if it's a knee high like a saidge or something 1108 00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:01,200 Speaker 1: in that family, those aren't necessarily they're more than likely natives, 1109 00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,520 Speaker 1: but they're not necessarily a bad thing. But they make 1110 00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:08,400 Speaker 1: a good very very very importantly, they make a part 1111 00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,560 Speaker 1: a component of what would be a good stand um. 1112 00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:13,520 Speaker 1: So if those things are popping up here and there, 1113 00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,440 Speaker 1: they're they're they're just getting an opportunity to poke through 1114 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,680 Speaker 1: some sunlight and trying to grow um mark on that. 1115 00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:22,880 Speaker 1: There's a couple other methods that we didn't touch yet 1116 00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:24,840 Speaker 1: when it talks about when we want to talk about 1117 00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,400 Speaker 1: possibly letting an old field do its thing, and that's 1118 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:32,600 Speaker 1: running a disk through it um a disk or fire, 1119 00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,800 Speaker 1: but by scarifying the soil. A real common practice in 1120 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,280 Speaker 1: a lot of wildlife management plans is to do what's 1121 00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,800 Speaker 1: called strip disking, where you just run a disc through 1122 00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:46,160 Speaker 1: the soil and disturb and just basically free up some 1123 00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,400 Speaker 1: uh seeds that are waiting there for an opportunity to grow, 1124 00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,520 Speaker 1: and that could be in conjunction right after a burn 1125 00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,680 Speaker 1: excuse me, a burnt down what I meant to say, 1126 00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,919 Speaker 1: when you kill some things with herbicide. Um, sometimes people 1127 00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,720 Speaker 1: will just run a disk through a green fallow field 1128 00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:06,160 Speaker 1: and and um springtime. Honestly, you know, there's a there's 1129 00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:10,200 Speaker 1: a difference between getting a better standup forbes and encouraging 1130 00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,960 Speaker 1: more grasses to grow bye bye when you disk it, 1131 00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,280 Speaker 1: either in the spring or in the fall. And I 1132 00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,320 Speaker 1: would say either as good, you know, and you're gonna 1133 00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,680 Speaker 1: get You're gonna get results either way. It's some more 1134 00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,640 Speaker 1: or less a timing thing for when when you have 1135 00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:26,720 Speaker 1: the ability to get in there and not interfere with 1136 00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,920 Speaker 1: with other parts of your your habitat plan or your hunting. 1137 00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,200 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes guys don't want to be in their 1138 00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:36,480 Speaker 1: running a tractor around spraying and disking when it's when 1139 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,280 Speaker 1: they want to be um leaving their sanctuaries alone for 1140 00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,919 Speaker 1: but for their deer to just to have peace. So um, 1141 00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:43,800 Speaker 1: springtime is always a good time to be doing some 1142 00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,200 Speaker 1: projects like this. But that spraying method about killing your 1143 00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,640 Speaker 1: sod right before it goes dormant. And everybody wants to 1144 00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,120 Speaker 1: be deer hunting in November, but that could be well 1145 00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:56,400 Speaker 1: worth it for the following year. Yeah, so so doing 1146 00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,440 Speaker 1: the tim irviside application. That's one way you mentioned the 1147 00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:03,439 Speaker 1: strip skiing. UM. Something I've heard Dr Craig Harper talk 1148 01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:08,200 Speaker 1: a lot about UM is not mowing. A lot of 1149 01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,280 Speaker 1: people like to mow their stuff. Can you explain why 1150 01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,440 Speaker 1: that is that that folks that mowing might not be 1151 01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,280 Speaker 1: the best option for resetting a field or working on 1152 01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,720 Speaker 1: a field. Well, it's a lot of people. I think 1153 01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:22,960 Speaker 1: Craig's Craig's um. Everybody laughs when he talks about this 1154 01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,960 Speaker 1: during his speeches and and it's like, there's time to 1155 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,120 Speaker 1: go fire up a tractor just to go mow the field. 1156 01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:29,600 Speaker 1: And it'll be why why do you why do you 1157 01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,000 Speaker 1: want to do that? Why? Well, like nothing else to do, 1158 01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,080 Speaker 1: it might as well mow. Um. We're just so ingrained 1159 01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:40,080 Speaker 1: to have our properties looking like like yards and uh, 1160 01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,520 Speaker 1: it's in direct competition with what a wildlife manager UM 1161 01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:48,160 Speaker 1: should be doing. There was absolutely no reason to mow 1162 01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:53,320 Speaker 1: a field down when you're trying to do early successional growth. Um, 1163 01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,400 Speaker 1: I you're just you're basically resetting the plants. You're cutting 1164 01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,240 Speaker 1: them off and having him start the life cycle all 1165 01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,880 Speaker 1: over again. Um. Now, that's that's one thing to be 1166 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,440 Speaker 1: talking about that in a food plot situation, when you're 1167 01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:09,320 Speaker 1: creating new growth on clover or alfalfa, that the high 1168 01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,320 Speaker 1: protein comes up. But we're really kind of comparing apples 1169 01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,720 Speaker 1: and oranges here. If you're trying to grow some structure 1170 01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:18,800 Speaker 1: with some so basically you know, food and cover together. 1171 01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,800 Speaker 1: Where you've got a mixed field of grasses and forms 1172 01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:26,320 Speaker 1: and weeds, beneficial weeds don't break out the more. Let 1173 01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:28,400 Speaker 1: let them get some size to them because you're you're 1174 01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,080 Speaker 1: you're you're trying to create hand and glove cover and 1175 01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,560 Speaker 1: food at the same time. Yeah, correct me if I'm 1176 01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:37,360 Speaker 1: wrong here. But you know, it's it's easy when guys 1177 01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:39,560 Speaker 1: like us start talking about these things. It's really easy 1178 01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:43,600 Speaker 1: to get so focused on white tails because obviously we 1179 01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,480 Speaker 1: love them so much. They they take up so much 1180 01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,760 Speaker 1: of our mind space as we're we're thinking about and 1181 01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:51,600 Speaker 1: planning all these things around our deer hunting. Um, but 1182 01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,080 Speaker 1: new or old field growth or whatever it might be 1183 01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:58,720 Speaker 1: building early successional habitat that really benefits all sorts of 1184 01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:00,600 Speaker 1: other wildlife too. Like if we look at what we're 1185 01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,080 Speaker 1: doing on a property not as just creating a better 1186 01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:07,240 Speaker 1: deer hunting situation, but also managing the entire you know, 1187 01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,120 Speaker 1: wildlife population, trying to benefit things that are at our 1188 01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,120 Speaker 1: higher level, Isn't this one of the best ways to 1189 01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,720 Speaker 1: do that? And I will say now is a good 1190 01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,680 Speaker 1: time to point out if there's if we're odds with 1191 01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:24,520 Speaker 1: anything with a multi species beneficial planning, it maybe going 1192 01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:27,439 Speaker 1: for the densest, tallest, warm season grass planning you can find. 1193 01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:30,320 Speaker 1: And I'm guilty of that because some of well, my 1194 01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,920 Speaker 1: property number one, number one goal for me is is thick, nasty, 1195 01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:39,560 Speaker 1: gnarly deer bedding habitat um. Yeah, it's true, big blue 1196 01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,880 Speaker 1: Indian and switch that the big three are bunch grasses, 1197 01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:44,880 Speaker 1: which means if you got down on your hands and 1198 01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,440 Speaker 1: knees and crawled through a field, you're going to have 1199 01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:49,959 Speaker 1: a clump here fifteen inches over here as a clump, 1200 01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,040 Speaker 1: twelve inches over there as a clump. So you have 1201 01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:56,720 Speaker 1: these little runways and tunnels that small game can utilize. 1202 01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:00,840 Speaker 1: But in all honestly, it's not quite as friendly user 1203 01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:05,120 Speaker 1: friendly to say quail. Um. Now, turkeys will get in 1204 01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:07,680 Speaker 1: there around the edges and nest in that. Quail like 1205 01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,800 Speaker 1: a little bit more of a uh to to have 1206 01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,120 Speaker 1: the ability to fly up out of that. They tend 1207 01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:14,720 Speaker 1: to get a little bit too bogged down and the 1208 01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:19,920 Speaker 1: really tall grasses. So um. Multiple species benefit probably the 1209 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:24,520 Speaker 1: most from an old field habitat that's managed correctly, um 1210 01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,760 Speaker 1: and then reset according to when it's when it starts 1211 01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,919 Speaker 1: to mature, it turns into saplings, which turns into young 1212 01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, young forests, and on down the road, on 1213 01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:36,720 Speaker 1: down the line. But warm season grasses can be tailored 1214 01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,840 Speaker 1: in their mixes and blends to be you throw in 1215 01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:42,840 Speaker 1: a few short grasses in there as well. You throw 1216 01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:45,880 Speaker 1: in some some forbes that have some seed component to 1217 01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:47,960 Speaker 1: them when they mature that are known for seeds that 1218 01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:51,280 Speaker 1: are beneficial, like partridge p is an excellent one for 1219 01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:55,240 Speaker 1: for quail. And you can, depending on what your objective is, 1220 01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:58,440 Speaker 1: you can you can tailor a warm season grass season 1221 01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,560 Speaker 1: grass planning to be sort of full spectrum and be 1222 01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:06,040 Speaker 1: of the law of averages benefit everything. Um. And I 1223 01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:09,720 Speaker 1: just I reserved revert back to that explanation for me 1224 01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,840 Speaker 1: using the big three in a in a tight dense 1225 01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:18,160 Speaker 1: planting is is just strictly for nasty buckbetting habitat. Yeah, 1226 01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:21,240 Speaker 1: and it definitely seems like there's a place, there's a 1227 01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,280 Speaker 1: time and place for everything, right and um and and 1228 01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:26,880 Speaker 1: kind of speaking back to the deer side of things though, 1229 01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,320 Speaker 1: and and this probably benefits a lot of other things too. 1230 01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:31,960 Speaker 1: But when we're talking cover, we've we've spent a lot 1231 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,080 Speaker 1: of time on talking about fields, either converting a field, 1232 01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:39,200 Speaker 1: an old crop field into early successional habitat, or managing 1233 01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,400 Speaker 1: a field that's already there. Um, what about the other 1234 01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:45,160 Speaker 1: big section of your property and a big section of 1235 01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,640 Speaker 1: some of the places I've looked at personally that are 1236 01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:52,920 Speaker 1: currently mature timber, big timber. Um, I know from a 1237 01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,439 Speaker 1: video I watched of yours from a handful of years ago. 1238 01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,200 Speaker 1: Back to this, uh, this new property that you picked up, 1239 01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:01,320 Speaker 1: the adjacent farm that to increct me if I'm Ron's 1240 01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,880 Speaker 1: but I believe you looked at timber harvest on that 1241 01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,320 Speaker 1: property is a way to help supplement some of your 1242 01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,720 Speaker 1: help supplement income and help pay for some of that. Maybe, um, 1243 01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:13,360 Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about how we should 1244 01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:15,720 Speaker 1: be thinking about you know, finding the right way of 1245 01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,040 Speaker 1: using some kind of timber harvest or management to a 1246 01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:21,800 Speaker 1: benefit wildlife and to be maybe help with the economics 1247 01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:26,439 Speaker 1: of the whole deal. Absolutely, in timber there's really only 1248 01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,800 Speaker 1: a couple three, you know, you can count on one hand. 1249 01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:33,560 Speaker 1: Let's put that way practices that ultimately are going to 1250 01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:37,360 Speaker 1: be management strategies that you can and they all they 1251 01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:43,080 Speaker 1: all revolve around cutting or or selectively reducing competitive species. 1252 01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:46,480 Speaker 1: But I like to think of the easiest way that 1253 01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,880 Speaker 1: you can get the most improvement on your property and 1254 01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:51,720 Speaker 1: it won't cost you anything. As a matter of fact, 1255 01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:55,240 Speaker 1: that puts money in your pocket. Is a selective timber harvest. 1256 01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,880 Speaker 1: But um, I throw the caution flag out and I 1257 01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,000 Speaker 1: mark you probably remember me saying that back then, is 1258 01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,120 Speaker 1: that there are some really good folks out there in 1259 01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:08,800 Speaker 1: the timber industry. It's a very competitive industry. So there's 1260 01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:12,600 Speaker 1: just about anything you do, there's going to be there's 1261 01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:15,720 Speaker 1: gonna be some characters of some questionable quality, you know, 1262 01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,520 Speaker 1: so and and and not only what I mean by 1263 01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:21,200 Speaker 1: that is what they would pay you for their for 1264 01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,520 Speaker 1: your commodity, but also in the job that they will do. 1265 01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,320 Speaker 1: And by that I mean are they going to damage 1266 01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:29,240 Speaker 1: a lot of other trees in the process. Are they 1267 01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,200 Speaker 1: going to come in when it's completely wet and right 1268 01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:35,280 Speaker 1: up your property and leave you with a nightmare mess? 1269 01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:40,400 Speaker 1: So I advise doing If you don't personally know a good, 1270 01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:44,960 Speaker 1: reputable timber buyer in your area, then then I would 1271 01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:49,720 Speaker 1: certainly recommend contacting a private lands forester and what they 1272 01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:52,680 Speaker 1: would do is come out and they would walk with you, 1273 01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,160 Speaker 1: and they would talk with you about your objectives for 1274 01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:58,600 Speaker 1: your property. And like me, I've got a friend of 1275 01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:00,720 Speaker 1: mine that's a timber buyer, and I've got several friends 1276 01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,000 Speaker 1: that are forestry consultants. And after years of doing this, 1277 01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,280 Speaker 1: I feel comfortable having conversations both directions with these guys. 1278 01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:11,640 Speaker 1: I tell my forrester, I want to take every oak 1279 01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:14,880 Speaker 1: tree on this ridge that's twenty inches are larger, and 1280 01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, leave leave anything that eight nineteen and down 1281 01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:26,640 Speaker 1: for the next five years um. And then I'm also 1282 01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:30,479 Speaker 1: in between those harvest, I'm doing timber stand improvement work, 1283 01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:35,040 Speaker 1: which means I'm hinge cutting on my place. It's beech trees. 1284 01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:37,160 Speaker 1: We you might have seen a video that we did 1285 01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:39,720 Speaker 1: for land Beat on white tail properties and also for 1286 01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,800 Speaker 1: the management advantage a couple episodes based on on on 1287 01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:47,240 Speaker 1: hinge cutting. But with what you have to work with, 1288 01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,600 Speaker 1: everybody's got a different composition. Mine happened to be an 1289 01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:55,320 Speaker 1: absolute surplus of young coming in beach trees from one 1290 01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:58,800 Speaker 1: inch in diameter up to you know, twelve inches and 1291 01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:02,000 Speaker 1: creating some light to the floor and laying over trees 1292 01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:05,320 Speaker 1: to create additional structure for cover for betting. UM. But 1293 01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:09,520 Speaker 1: where I'm going with this is a good managed timber 1294 01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:15,480 Speaker 1: inventory harvest can result in the opening of your canopy, 1295 01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,759 Speaker 1: some dollars in your pocket, new growth for the next 1296 01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,640 Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty years that will be friendly and beneficial 1297 01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:27,600 Speaker 1: to your wildlife, and UM the ability to go in 1298 01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:31,439 Speaker 1: and manage you know, around and in between those harvests 1299 01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:38,080 Speaker 1: to create an ongoing perpetual situation. UM. So back to 1300 01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:45,120 Speaker 1: the back to the consultant. He will mark the trees 1301 01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:48,479 Speaker 1: for you and basically give you an estimate of value 1302 01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,719 Speaker 1: based on the size, which relates to total board feet. 1303 01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:55,679 Speaker 1: And there's a market value for each particular species based 1304 01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,479 Speaker 1: on the current conditions. And then it's pretty simple math 1305 01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,200 Speaker 1: to do number of board eight times the dollars per 1306 01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:04,439 Speaker 1: board foot UH to give you an estimate, and he 1307 01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:08,120 Speaker 1: can even put the put the property out forbid to 1308 01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:12,760 Speaker 1: several timber harvesters and um see who bids on it. 1309 01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:15,360 Speaker 1: And he can also say, hey, this guy has always 1310 01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:17,840 Speaker 1: done a good job for me, or you might watch 1311 01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:19,720 Speaker 1: this guy a little bit close, you know, so you're 1312 01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,000 Speaker 1: gonna get some inside scooped there. But you're basically going 1313 01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:25,479 Speaker 1: to have a supervisor that's working on behalf of you 1314 01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:28,000 Speaker 1: to take care of you, to make sure that things 1315 01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,840 Speaker 1: are being done number one, financially the right way to 1316 01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:32,960 Speaker 1: you're going to be compensated at the market value of 1317 01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:37,200 Speaker 1: what they might take. But also um following along to 1318 01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:40,040 Speaker 1: make sure the cleanup is done properly. The roads are 1319 01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:44,200 Speaker 1: a lot of times timber buyer will they'll do a 1320 01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:46,559 Speaker 1: basic clean up job while they will backdrack the roads 1321 01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:48,320 Speaker 1: and make a nice and smooth and they'll put water 1322 01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:50,920 Speaker 1: bars are in, which are little damns the differt water 1323 01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:53,360 Speaker 1: off your trail and things like that. But if you 1324 01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:55,559 Speaker 1: need some culverts put in, if you want to a 1325 01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,040 Speaker 1: road cut from this, you know, this hill down into 1326 01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:01,080 Speaker 1: this valley to connect to that creek. Saying you know, 1327 01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:04,120 Speaker 1: they'll say okay, well we'll just I'll just deduct that 1328 01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:05,799 Speaker 1: out of a little bit of a couple of trees, 1329 01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, and you can barter that out with a 1330 01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:09,960 Speaker 1: guy if he's there doing a clean up job with 1331 01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:14,439 Speaker 1: a nice doz or anyway. So, um, that's number one. 1332 01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,320 Speaker 1: Is a timber harvest, whether you do it managing it 1333 01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:20,559 Speaker 1: through yourself or through the consultant, is is an easy 1334 01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:25,080 Speaker 1: way to get timberland in shape and productive for dear 1335 01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:28,200 Speaker 1: habitat and woodland species like white to excuse me, like 1336 01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:31,240 Speaker 1: wild turkeys and and uh, and some of our states 1337 01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:34,160 Speaker 1: were declining habitat is causing the rough grouse to disappear. 1338 01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:39,400 Speaker 1: Rough grouse really rely heavily on that early, early successional 1339 01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:42,240 Speaker 1: timber growth and they're disappearing from the landscape because we're 1340 01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:45,439 Speaker 1: not doing enough harvesting in many areas of our states. 1341 01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:48,880 Speaker 1: But so let me jump in really quick here, Tom 1342 01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:52,400 Speaker 1: and ask you, um would to be correct and assuming 1343 01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:56,480 Speaker 1: that that right, there's gonna be some foresters, some consulting 1344 01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,800 Speaker 1: foresters who are going to be kind of savvy to 1345 01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:02,080 Speaker 1: what wildlife folks are interested in, like us when we're 1346 01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:04,959 Speaker 1: thinking about how to do this from a deer hunting perspective, 1347 01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,640 Speaker 1: and there's gonna be some consulting foresters that probably are 1348 01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:11,040 Speaker 1: just looking to maximize profit, and it's probably important to 1349 01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:13,080 Speaker 1: pick the right one. Is that question number one? Is 1350 01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:16,559 Speaker 1: that true? Very true? Very true? How good forrester will 1351 01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:20,519 Speaker 1: ask you what is your priority or what are your 1352 01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:24,320 Speaker 1: priorities in order? And I always tell number one is 1353 01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:29,000 Speaker 1: deer habitat or wildlife habitat. Number two is timber value, 1354 01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:31,840 Speaker 1: perpetual timber value. In other words, I want to make 1355 01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:34,519 Speaker 1: sure I've got marketable trees for the future. Number three 1356 01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:38,599 Speaker 1: is this aesthetics I really have gotten over long ago, 1357 01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:43,320 Speaker 1: the shock and all of what a what a woodland 1358 01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:46,120 Speaker 1: looks like the week after the foresters, you know, the 1359 01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,000 Speaker 1: cutters leave, I know who's going to be tops laying everywhere. 1360 01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:51,160 Speaker 1: I understand that they're gonna have You're gonna have some 1361 01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:53,880 Speaker 1: snapped off tops here and there. So you've just gotta 1362 01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:56,439 Speaker 1: you've gotta be able to understand and accept that. But 1363 01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,160 Speaker 1: you also need to have a job that's done correctly 1364 01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:01,640 Speaker 1: and your trees app safe around those trees that were 1365 01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:04,519 Speaker 1: harvested and non injured, and in my opinion, the road's 1366 01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,080 Speaker 1: done properly and groomed out well, so that you're left 1367 01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:11,560 Speaker 1: with a good piece that you can manage going forward. Yeah. 1368 01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:15,519 Speaker 1: Now I always hear about timber harvests and doing some 1369 01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,439 Speaker 1: management like this when it comes to hardwoods, Is there 1370 01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:21,200 Speaker 1: any opportunity with soft woods so you've gotta stand up 1371 01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,280 Speaker 1: pine trees or something. Is there ever gonna be a 1372 01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:26,439 Speaker 1: scenario where you can find someone who where you can 1373 01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:28,639 Speaker 1: get money out of that too, or earth these softwares 1374 01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:32,599 Speaker 1: is not worth enough to make that that work makes 1375 01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:36,800 Speaker 1: sense to our southern friends. Absolutely, if you're down below 1376 01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:40,920 Speaker 1: the Mason Dixon line and really strong in Alabama and 1377 01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:47,600 Speaker 1: Georgia the Carolinas. Timber production down there means means pine plantations, 1378 01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:52,519 Speaker 1: and so the market that the mills are set up 1379 01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:55,000 Speaker 1: to feed the market down there for polpwood and paper 1380 01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:58,960 Speaker 1: and and lumber that that that relies on that particular 1381 01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:02,080 Speaker 1: tie of wood. Up here in the Midwest, it's much 1382 01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:04,479 Speaker 1: much tougher, tougher to find that. I won't say that 1383 01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:08,040 Speaker 1: I've not seen fires that have found a market for softwoods, 1384 01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,360 Speaker 1: and I've seen some of my friends and customers that 1385 01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:14,960 Speaker 1: have sold some. But it's it's it's just the whole 1386 01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:19,400 Speaker 1: thing about supply and demand. It's a completely different realm. 1387 01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:22,880 Speaker 1: We're in a different universe from those guys down there. Um, 1388 01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:25,240 Speaker 1: it is possible, but it's I wouldn't I wouldn't count 1389 01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:27,920 Speaker 1: on it. Um. If you find a way to sell 1390 01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:33,599 Speaker 1: some times up here, um, I would consider yourself pretty lucky. Okay, 1391 01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:38,200 Speaker 1: that's good to know. Definitely good to know. Um. You 1392 01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:40,280 Speaker 1: mentioned hinge cutting. That's something we know. We've talked to 1393 01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:41,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people about hinge cutting. It's a very 1394 01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:46,360 Speaker 1: popular method for improving cover, for managing some degree of timber, 1395 01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:48,439 Speaker 1: And I think probably the thing about it is it's 1396 01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:51,320 Speaker 1: the most accessible, right anyone can go out there with 1397 01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:54,840 Speaker 1: the proper equipment chainsaw and proper safety equipment and and 1398 01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:58,280 Speaker 1: start making some changes that can result in pretty quick 1399 01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:02,760 Speaker 1: you know, dear behavior changes too. Um, we won't. I 1400 01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:04,680 Speaker 1: don't think it's worth going through the basics of what 1401 01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:07,240 Speaker 1: hinge cutting is since I think most people know about 1402 01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:11,439 Speaker 1: that now. But is there anything anything that you've seen 1403 01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:16,400 Speaker 1: as far as popular, best popular? What am I trying 1404 01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:18,680 Speaker 1: to say? Are there any types of advice out there 1405 01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:20,800 Speaker 1: when it comes to hinge cutting that you've seen that 1406 01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:23,040 Speaker 1: you want to say, oh no, please don't do that, Like, 1407 01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:24,759 Speaker 1: are there any kind of means you need to fix 1408 01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:27,760 Speaker 1: or just a couple of next level things we should 1409 01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:31,000 Speaker 1: touch on on that topic. Yeah, I would say, um, 1410 01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:33,920 Speaker 1: just for example, being around some some professionals in the 1411 01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:39,360 Speaker 1: forest forestry industry and hearing how they have sort of a, 1412 01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:45,599 Speaker 1: um I guess a pet peeve with with hinge cutting 1413 01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:49,400 Speaker 1: because frankly, they've seen they've they've seen it run them 1414 01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:54,840 Speaker 1: up and possibly way overdone incorrectly, and and um, you 1415 01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:57,240 Speaker 1: know these guys are are trying to tell you there's 1416 01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:00,240 Speaker 1: better ways to manage for timber, but here we are 1417 01:15:00,280 --> 01:15:02,920 Speaker 1: as wildlife guys trying to manage our temper for wildlife. Two. 1418 01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:07,120 Speaker 1: So I would say cautionary is just to make sure 1419 01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:11,720 Speaker 1: you can identify your tree species. That's number one. Um 1420 01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:15,000 Speaker 1: I I don't think I've put a chainsaw on one 1421 01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:18,200 Speaker 1: single white oak or red oak tree wild hinge cutting 1422 01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:23,160 Speaker 1: on my property of it has been beach. And again 1423 01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:26,200 Speaker 1: I'm that's specific to me. I'm not saying another guy 1424 01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:30,400 Speaker 1: that has all oak timber on his property isn't going 1425 01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:33,280 Speaker 1: to find it fine to eliminate and hinge over a 1426 01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:35,599 Speaker 1: bunch of three and five inch white oaks. That would 1427 01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:38,400 Speaker 1: you know that would horrify a forester in some situations. 1428 01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:43,599 Speaker 1: But the I think it's very very important understand your 1429 01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:47,639 Speaker 1: tree species in which your mass producing, which your wildlife friendly, 1430 01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:51,280 Speaker 1: and and have temper value. Luckily for us, the highest 1431 01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:54,520 Speaker 1: value lumber um in our woodlands here in the Midwest, 1432 01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:57,960 Speaker 1: also our acorn acorn producing trees for the most part, 1433 01:15:57,960 --> 01:15:59,760 Speaker 1: red oak, white oak. White oak is the king right 1434 01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:04,799 Speaker 1: now probably always will be in the oaks. But also, um, 1435 01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:08,320 Speaker 1: you have you have hickory walnut. Yeah, you could say 1436 01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:11,559 Speaker 1: deer won't utilize um, the walnut, but it is a 1437 01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:13,640 Speaker 1: it is a nut producing tree, and it is a 1438 01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:17,479 Speaker 1: highly valuable wood. I mean it's it's it probably rain 1439 01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:20,720 Speaker 1: rained supreme over even the white oak for the right 1440 01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,240 Speaker 1: the white walnut tree as far as market value, board 1441 01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:27,559 Speaker 1: foot value. And then um, probably the one that that's 1442 01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:29,479 Speaker 1: not a mass producer here in the Midwest is a 1443 01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:32,760 Speaker 1: sugar maple um. But it's a valuable hardwood. It's it's 1444 01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:36,480 Speaker 1: a good furniture. Would so making sure you can identify 1445 01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:40,320 Speaker 1: the trees that have potentially masked and market value and 1446 01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:43,880 Speaker 1: avoid cutting them unless it's absolutely necessary, and is it 1447 01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:47,400 Speaker 1: One could argue is it necessary? Um, But if you're 1448 01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:50,320 Speaker 1: if you're trying to free up a sixteen inch oke 1449 01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:53,360 Speaker 1: with five small oaks underneath it. Yeah, I might, I 1450 01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:55,519 Speaker 1: could see where you might want to hinge cut some 1451 01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:58,160 Speaker 1: of those. But a lot of foresters bristle at that 1452 01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:00,479 Speaker 1: because they're they've just seen guys that have then willy 1453 01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:04,520 Speaker 1: nilly with a chainsaw and done more damage than good. Um. 1454 01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:07,400 Speaker 1: But then again, it's all it's all subjective. Is it 1455 01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:10,040 Speaker 1: important to that guy that that he's cutting his out trees? 1456 01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:12,479 Speaker 1: Maybe he did it on purpose and doesn't care, but 1457 01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:18,080 Speaker 1: he is sort of eliminating some pooture marketable timber. Yeah. Yeah. 1458 01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:22,240 Speaker 1: So so speaking of cutting timber, Um, when you bought 1459 01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:25,280 Speaker 1: that first fifty seven acre piece, if I if I 1460 01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:29,120 Speaker 1: heard right, it sounds like it was mostly mostly timber, 1461 01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:32,599 Speaker 1: and to put food in originally you had to kind 1462 01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:35,280 Speaker 1: of carve out some spots in the timber. Is that right, 1463 01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:41,080 Speaker 1: that's correct? Yeah? I remember, Um, I created a little 1464 01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:44,200 Speaker 1: food plot that was once a logging deck in the timber. 1465 01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:46,360 Speaker 1: You know with that what I'm talking about where they 1466 01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:48,920 Speaker 1: stage up, it's where they stack all the logs and 1467 01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:50,639 Speaker 1: they get loaded on the trucks and off the hill 1468 01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,880 Speaker 1: they go. So this, this little piece was probably a 1469 01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:55,960 Speaker 1: quarter of an acre, and you know, not a small 1470 01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,920 Speaker 1: not not a big field by any stretch of the imagination. 1471 01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:00,960 Speaker 1: But it was up on an ice flat ridge top. 1472 01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:02,799 Speaker 1: And I had a tractor, and I had a bushog, 1473 01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:05,439 Speaker 1: and I had a greater box. This was back way 1474 01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:08,000 Speaker 1: back before the ferminator was ever a thought in my mind. 1475 01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:10,479 Speaker 1: So um. But I went up there with a chainsaw 1476 01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:13,320 Speaker 1: and a greater box with root I mean with a 1477 01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:16,519 Speaker 1: scarifier teeth and and cut and pushed saplings out of 1478 01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:18,360 Speaker 1: the way and ran the box through the soil, ripping 1479 01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:21,120 Speaker 1: up all the roots I could, and worked around some 1480 01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:23,599 Speaker 1: of that. At that time, there really weren't any big stumps, 1481 01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:26,439 Speaker 1: but maybe this stump the sides of a softball that 1482 01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:30,560 Speaker 1: my tractor. I've worked around those, but basically created a 1483 01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,439 Speaker 1: first clearing that way, and that was our food plot 1484 01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:36,080 Speaker 1: out of property for a long long time. And then 1485 01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:38,240 Speaker 1: when we did this harvest in two thousand and five, 1486 01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:42,080 Speaker 1: the first big timber harvest. Um, I worked with my 1487 01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:45,320 Speaker 1: cutter and I I flagged out those areas and I said, 1488 01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:49,360 Speaker 1: I would like you to take every tree inside of 1489 01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:53,240 Speaker 1: these you know, I you can put a paint spot 1490 01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:55,720 Speaker 1: on the trees or a ribbon or flax or whatever 1491 01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:57,960 Speaker 1: you want to do. And I said, I want everything 1492 01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,000 Speaker 1: that you can possibly take, and if if, if you 1493 01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:03,760 Speaker 1: make a penny off of it, and you're willing to 1494 01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:06,640 Speaker 1: take it off the hill, take it, and even if 1495 01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:08,280 Speaker 1: you don't pay me, you know, a dyme for it. 1496 01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:10,599 Speaker 1: And of course there was some marketuple trees in there, 1497 01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:12,120 Speaker 1: but there was a lot of trees that they just 1498 01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:14,479 Speaker 1: took because they know it's a free tree, they're going 1499 01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:18,120 Speaker 1: to take it. They just was reducing my my um 1500 01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:21,320 Speaker 1: labor in the end of what I was going to 1501 01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:25,400 Speaker 1: have to clear. So we created from that that oversizing. 1502 01:19:25,439 --> 01:19:28,880 Speaker 1: We created a one field by our camp that was 1503 01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:33,920 Speaker 1: basically about half an acre four tenths and then another 1504 01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:35,920 Speaker 1: one we call the South plot it's now eight tenths 1505 01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:37,840 Speaker 1: of an acre that was an expansion of our little 1506 01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:41,599 Speaker 1: tiny quarter acre. And then we created a two acre 1507 01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:44,519 Speaker 1: field in the Timber that was all at one time 1508 01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:48,799 Speaker 1: originally all forest and h that that was a cool 1509 01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:52,920 Speaker 1: really made your major transition. Yeah, so so can you 1510 01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:57,400 Speaker 1: help me understand how you chose these spots? Um? Sure, 1511 01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:02,080 Speaker 1: Actually it was fairly easy because they were probably the 1512 01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:05,599 Speaker 1: fattest fattest. They were the flattest areas on the ridges 1513 01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:10,720 Speaker 1: that had multiple fingers dumping into like a bench or 1514 01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:15,240 Speaker 1: a flat ridge top. So um, and it was easy 1515 01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:18,360 Speaker 1: for access for the timber guys. They as they were 1516 01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:22,280 Speaker 1: coming through, they basically drove right along these areas. And uh, 1517 01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:24,200 Speaker 1: I knew it from hunting to that they were flat 1518 01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:28,240 Speaker 1: and offered some converging trail areas and and it just 1519 01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:31,400 Speaker 1: it made sense that way. Also, they weren't against the 1520 01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:34,080 Speaker 1: property lines. They were well there was a nice buffer 1521 01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:38,400 Speaker 1: between those plot locations and any surrounding property lines. So 1522 01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:41,120 Speaker 1: there you know, no no eyes could see into those 1523 01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:44,280 Speaker 1: areas and run the risk of having somebody sitting on 1524 01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:47,679 Speaker 1: them and shooting into them. But um, sort of default 1525 01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:50,960 Speaker 1: that way. I mean, there are more criteria to look at, moisture, 1526 01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:54,800 Speaker 1: sunlight exposure, access in and out with equipment, Um, there's 1527 01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:57,080 Speaker 1: other things to consider, but those were the ones for me. 1528 01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:00,400 Speaker 1: So then what was the process after you had the 1529 01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:04,480 Speaker 1: loggers came in, they took out all those trees. Uh, 1530 01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:07,040 Speaker 1: where did you go from there? In this scenario? Yeah, 1531 01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:09,360 Speaker 1: it was it was like a tornado who went through there. 1532 01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:11,720 Speaker 1: I've got pictures of it early on when when they 1533 01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:15,680 Speaker 1: just finished and it was horrible. UM, but you know, 1534 01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:19,599 Speaker 1: you expected it to look devastating. UM. I was still 1535 01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:22,240 Speaker 1: landscape contracting at that time, so I had I had 1536 01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:25,599 Speaker 1: a steed loader and we did buy a grapple bucket 1537 01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:28,360 Speaker 1: for it, and and we what we did is we 1538 01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:30,679 Speaker 1: would go out on Saturdays and Sundays on the weekend 1539 01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:34,719 Speaker 1: and use the kid loader and take every tree top 1540 01:21:35,080 --> 01:21:37,600 Speaker 1: and just we kept feeding a fire. We built a 1541 01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:39,720 Speaker 1: giant fire in the middle of it, and we just 1542 01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:43,959 Speaker 1: started burning tops and burning tops and dragon um surrounding 1543 01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:47,000 Speaker 1: tops that we had easy access to right there, cutting 1544 01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:49,400 Speaker 1: down the remaining trees that the guys didn't take, and 1545 01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:51,280 Speaker 1: there were there were a lot. And you know, maybe 1546 01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:53,240 Speaker 1: step goes off to the side, put the logs off 1547 01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:56,640 Speaker 1: to the side as a possible firewood logs, you know, 1548 01:21:56,720 --> 01:22:00,320 Speaker 1: for the camp. But after all the tops were earned, 1549 01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:04,439 Speaker 1: and you have a field leftover of ash in the 1550 01:22:04,479 --> 01:22:09,120 Speaker 1: middle and stumps about every ten ft apart. And that's 1551 01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:11,840 Speaker 1: where the real fund began. And I say that tongue 1552 01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:15,240 Speaker 1: in cheek we um. We rented a stump grinder, a 1553 01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:18,240 Speaker 1: kind that attaches to the three point on a tractor, 1554 01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:22,320 Speaker 1: and it had a little station window where you can 1555 01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:24,639 Speaker 1: step off next to it. It was pto driven off 1556 01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:27,800 Speaker 1: the tractor, and it had a little um basically like 1557 01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:30,880 Speaker 1: a joystick and some buttons and you could the stump 1558 01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:32,880 Speaker 1: grinder would move in and out and left and right 1559 01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:36,919 Speaker 1: and up and down, of course, and we ground stumps. Um. 1560 01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:41,120 Speaker 1: We kept that thing for I don't know two weeks 1561 01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:44,000 Speaker 1: straight and ground stumps till we were seeing him in 1562 01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:49,040 Speaker 1: our sleep. UM. And I'm talking hundreds and hundreds of stumps. 1563 01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:52,080 Speaker 1: That was the easy I guess you would say the 1564 01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:55,519 Speaker 1: poor man's way. UM. Another way to do it, had 1565 01:22:55,560 --> 01:23:00,240 Speaker 1: I had the finances or the connections, was to leave 1566 01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:02,400 Speaker 1: the stumps a little bit higher and have somebody come 1567 01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:04,680 Speaker 1: in with the dozer and push them all out of 1568 01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:06,960 Speaker 1: the ground. But then again, I'm I'm dealing with giant 1569 01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:10,120 Speaker 1: root balls, you know, and what do you do with that? Um? 1570 01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:12,400 Speaker 1: Then you're you're piling up the root balls somewhere and 1571 01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:15,360 Speaker 1: creating UM. So the way that we did it, we 1572 01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:18,519 Speaker 1: ended up with a beautiful field with no litter around it, 1573 01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:22,559 Speaker 1: no piles, no nothing, and good good soil on top 1574 01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:25,920 Speaker 1: of the We we ground the stumps down six inches 1575 01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:27,960 Speaker 1: below the surface and then I took my skid loader 1576 01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:30,880 Speaker 1: when done and just push soil around and fill all 1577 01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:33,880 Speaker 1: the little low spots in and create a nice level field. 1578 01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:36,479 Speaker 1: So so when you're carving in a food plot like 1579 01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:41,040 Speaker 1: this inside timber, something I've never really thought about is 1580 01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:45,200 Speaker 1: how much of a buffer area? Like what am I 1581 01:23:45,240 --> 01:23:47,280 Speaker 1: trying to say? Let's say I had the goal of 1582 01:23:47,320 --> 01:23:50,280 Speaker 1: having a half acre food plot, would it be fair 1583 01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:54,280 Speaker 1: to say that carving out exactly half acre of space 1584 01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:57,160 Speaker 1: is not what you want to do because some amount 1585 01:23:57,200 --> 01:23:59,439 Speaker 1: of that will be so shaded out that's not actually 1586 01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:01,439 Speaker 1: gonna grow that if you if you want a half 1587 01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:03,479 Speaker 1: acre food plot, you might actually want to carve out, 1588 01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:06,760 Speaker 1: you know, six tenths of an acre, seven tenths of 1589 01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:10,439 Speaker 1: an acre to allow for a shaded bufferster. Is any 1590 01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:12,040 Speaker 1: of that something you ever think about? Or am I 1591 01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:14,840 Speaker 1: overthinking it? No? No, you're not overthinking it. And we 1592 01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:18,160 Speaker 1: mentioned it briefly a little earlier that you definitely have 1593 01:24:18,240 --> 01:24:20,600 Speaker 1: to look at the direction of the sun in the 1594 01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:23,280 Speaker 1: way the field orients to relationship to how the sun 1595 01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:28,080 Speaker 1: rises and sets, and you may have aspirations to have 1596 01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:33,360 Speaker 1: a particular size, but that just real real world conditions 1597 01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:36,479 Speaker 1: may not allow you to do that. Um. Now, the 1598 01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:38,760 Speaker 1: other thing you can do is create the opening that 1599 01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:41,439 Speaker 1: you can no matter how it's. You know, let's face it, 1600 01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,800 Speaker 1: some guys may have a twenty acre woods and they've 1601 01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:46,040 Speaker 1: got one little flat spot in there. Then let's let's 1602 01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:47,680 Speaker 1: say half an acre and it is what it is. 1603 01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:50,840 Speaker 1: You don't have any of their options because it's hillsides 1604 01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:54,920 Speaker 1: and in deep gullies and ravines. So you you you 1605 01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:57,040 Speaker 1: work with what you've got unless you have the ability 1606 01:24:57,080 --> 01:24:59,840 Speaker 1: to be selective based on conditions. And watch how the sun. 1607 01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:03,960 Speaker 1: You're gonna need four hours minimum of direct sunlight a 1608 01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:08,559 Speaker 1: day to grow a good sustainable forage of any kind. 1609 01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:11,920 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you can grow plants less than that, 1610 01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:13,599 Speaker 1: but that's what you're going to need to have a 1611 01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:18,839 Speaker 1: good viable food source. That's that's storing energy and providing 1612 01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:22,760 Speaker 1: for your deer. So backing up a step, if you 1613 01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:24,840 Speaker 1: if you work with what you've got and it's not 1614 01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:28,040 Speaker 1: perfectly oriented the way that you want. UM, some other 1615 01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:31,200 Speaker 1: things you can do is trim overhanging branches along the 1616 01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:35,880 Speaker 1: outside edges all the way around to to to maximize 1617 01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:39,800 Speaker 1: your area of impact. It's not a bad thing to 1618 01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,120 Speaker 1: have some shade early in the morning and late in 1619 01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:44,960 Speaker 1: the afternoon. The clovers absolutely love that. They like a 1620 01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:47,519 Speaker 1: little bit of break from the direct heat. In July 1621 01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:51,040 Speaker 1: and August here um and as the moisture in the 1622 01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:53,559 Speaker 1: ground starts to dissipate from the direct sun, you'll see 1623 01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:56,920 Speaker 1: your your best forages are growing in that partial shade. 1624 01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:00,879 Speaker 1: But just thinking outside the box in general old terms, 1625 01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:04,840 Speaker 1: looking at a UM east and west orientation to get 1626 01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:08,080 Speaker 1: um excuse me, north and south orientations, so that when 1627 01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:11,000 Speaker 1: the sun rises east to west, it's basically hitting the 1628 01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,360 Speaker 1: field all at the same time, you know, and you're 1629 01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:16,960 Speaker 1: getting ample sunlight coverage across the entirety as it as 1630 01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:18,920 Speaker 1: it peaks in the sky and goes down the other way. 1631 01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:25,840 Speaker 1: So thinking about that in terms of accessibility sunlight, how 1632 01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:28,559 Speaker 1: can I get equipment back there, and then choosing your 1633 01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:32,640 Speaker 1: forages to match the soil and the sun ridge top plannings. 1634 01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:36,920 Speaker 1: I've grown clovers in them just because I UM. I 1635 01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:38,720 Speaker 1: think my soil does is it has a lot of 1636 01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:40,880 Speaker 1: loam and it holds a lot of moisture. But as 1637 01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,880 Speaker 1: a general rule of thumb, bottom land soils at the 1638 01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:45,439 Speaker 1: base of the hills are going to grow a better 1639 01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:48,439 Speaker 1: clover field for you, and the tops might be areas 1640 01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:51,040 Speaker 1: where you would consider plants that are a little bit 1641 01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:53,439 Speaker 1: more drought tolerant or or a little more tolerant to 1642 01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:57,840 Speaker 1: heat and adverse conditions, and chicker he is one of those. 1643 01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:00,840 Speaker 1: But you can certainly grow your your all winter blends 1644 01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:04,639 Speaker 1: of cereal grains and brassic is on those tops as well, um, 1645 01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:08,720 Speaker 1: soybeans and corn and the timber as possible. Uh, soybeans 1646 01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:12,200 Speaker 1: need well. Depending on dear density, they can be a nightmare, 1647 01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:14,840 Speaker 1: but soybeans will do well in full sun with some 1648 01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:18,639 Speaker 1: fairly dry soils as as well. Like that particular two 1649 01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:21,439 Speaker 1: acre field that I just described. I've grown everything in 1650 01:27:21,439 --> 01:27:24,240 Speaker 1: that from different clovers that a round up bratty alfalfa, 1651 01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:28,720 Speaker 1: the eagle and round the real world soybeans, poured soybeans. 1652 01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:31,519 Speaker 1: I've plenty corn in there, Um, you name it, I've 1653 01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:33,920 Speaker 1: had it in there. On the shade issue, this is 1654 01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:36,160 Speaker 1: something I've never really thought too much about, but this 1655 01:27:36,240 --> 01:27:40,799 Speaker 1: is important. I'm imagining, is there is this an issue 1656 01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:44,639 Speaker 1: that's so important that you should think about the shape 1657 01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:48,320 Speaker 1: of your food plat two to maximize sunlight. So by 1658 01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:50,960 Speaker 1: that I mean what you you mentioned that example of 1659 01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:53,920 Speaker 1: orienting your food plot to run north to south so 1660 01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:56,400 Speaker 1: that it gets as much possible sunlight during those times. 1661 01:27:56,720 --> 01:28:01,120 Speaker 1: Would it also be beneficial to have a more of 1662 01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:03,880 Speaker 1: a square shaped food plot in a situation like this 1663 01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:08,800 Speaker 1: that that has more unshaded uh surface area versus a long, 1664 01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:10,920 Speaker 1: skinny food plot that might be in shade for a 1665 01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:14,080 Speaker 1: longer period of time. Do something like that makes sense 1666 01:28:14,080 --> 01:28:17,080 Speaker 1: at all? It does? UM. I am a big fan though, 1667 01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:19,200 Speaker 1: of the irregularity. Even when I did my all my 1668 01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:23,200 Speaker 1: landscape designs, and even when I'm doing a customer's habitat design, 1669 01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:26,200 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of curves and irregular shapes. I 1670 01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:28,479 Speaker 1: just think it lends to itself to a more naturally 1671 01:28:28,520 --> 01:28:31,680 Speaker 1: pleasing look. Um. I also like the fact that a 1672 01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:33,479 Speaker 1: deer popping out at one end of the field has 1673 01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:35,000 Speaker 1: to make an effort to see at the other end 1674 01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:37,360 Speaker 1: of the field. That could that could lend well to 1675 01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:40,160 Speaker 1: a hunting strategy, I would say, unless it's a really 1676 01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:43,760 Speaker 1: extreme case, UM, I would just as long as your 1677 01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:47,200 Speaker 1: general directions are oriented north and south, and you're gonna 1678 01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:50,240 Speaker 1: have some coves or little dips and valleys are not valleys, 1679 01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:53,839 Speaker 1: but dips and curves off to the side. The majority 1680 01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:55,439 Speaker 1: of the field is going to do great. You may 1681 01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:58,240 Speaker 1: have some areas that struggle a little bit, as I said, 1682 01:28:58,320 --> 01:29:01,000 Speaker 1: sometimes those fields, those area is that struggle a little 1683 01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:04,160 Speaker 1: bit for direct sunlight early on, we will be the 1684 01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:06,840 Speaker 1: best areas later on in the summer because they're they've 1685 01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:09,960 Speaker 1: they've retained more moisture. So I wouldn't let I wouldn't 1686 01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:13,519 Speaker 1: lose too much sleep over that. Um, there's nothing wrong 1687 01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,000 Speaker 1: with square if that's the area you've got to work with, 1688 01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:17,519 Speaker 1: by all mean, and it's just a little bit easier 1689 01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:20,880 Speaker 1: with equipment turning around and running straight lines and all that. 1690 01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:24,840 Speaker 1: But I'm a fan of irregular and odd shapes and 1691 01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:28,800 Speaker 1: pinch points and ins and outs and that kind of thing, 1692 01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:30,640 Speaker 1: just just from the design aspect of it and the 1693 01:29:30,680 --> 01:29:34,240 Speaker 1: hunting the interest that it creates. Yeah, there definitely do 1694 01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:38,200 Speaker 1: seem to be benefits to having slightly more strategic shapes 1695 01:29:38,240 --> 01:29:41,959 Speaker 1: to those food plus, as you mentioned, to encourage travel throughout. Also, 1696 01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:45,960 Speaker 1: I think not only does irregular food plot shape lend 1697 01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:47,960 Speaker 1: itself to some of the movement things you said, but 1698 01:29:48,080 --> 01:29:50,799 Speaker 1: probably gives deer a little bit greater sense of comfort 1699 01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:53,559 Speaker 1: inside as well. Right, so not just looking at a big, 1700 01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,479 Speaker 1: wide open space, but they've got edges that that change 1701 01:29:56,479 --> 01:29:59,479 Speaker 1: around them. They've got some sections where they feel like 1702 01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:02,360 Speaker 1: they're a little bit more concealed. I gotta imagine that 1703 01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:05,040 Speaker 1: helps too. That's a great way to say it. Concealment 1704 01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:08,360 Speaker 1: is important to them, and these these woodland into your 1705 01:30:08,360 --> 01:30:13,080 Speaker 1: plots are just that's the whole purpose of them. Um. Well, not, 1706 01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:15,439 Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest benefits I should say of them, 1707 01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:18,200 Speaker 1: is just the fact that overall the thing is enclosed 1708 01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:22,840 Speaker 1: and surrounded by good heavy escape cover, and so just 1709 01:30:22,920 --> 01:30:27,360 Speaker 1: by by natural inclination, they feel good about it. But absolutely, 1710 01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:30,719 Speaker 1: if you can have a back cove to a field 1711 01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:32,040 Speaker 1: that has a little bit of wine, too, if the 1712 01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:36,640 Speaker 1: deer coming out that back float cod feel immediately immediately comfortable. 1713 01:30:36,680 --> 01:30:39,519 Speaker 1: And as they they venture out a little bit farther 1714 01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:42,760 Speaker 1: into the field, they can look on around the bend 1715 01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:45,599 Speaker 1: and see what's going on out there, and uh and 1716 01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:47,439 Speaker 1: and join the party and so to speak. But I 1717 01:30:47,439 --> 01:30:50,519 Speaker 1: think it's really neat to watch. Um, we've killed some 1718 01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:53,120 Speaker 1: mature bucks that will pop out in one part of 1719 01:30:53,120 --> 01:30:54,760 Speaker 1: the field and work a scrape line all the way 1720 01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:57,880 Speaker 1: around the perimeter. They've got to check the whole peripheral 1721 01:30:57,920 --> 01:30:59,760 Speaker 1: and will end up getting a shot because of the 1722 01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:01,519 Speaker 1: fact to the way it was shaped. You know, they've 1723 01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:03,880 Speaker 1: got to see what's what's going on around the bend. 1724 01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:08,120 Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. Um. Something that just popped in my 1725 01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:11,439 Speaker 1: mind is I'm thinking of this specific scenario of this 1726 01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:14,559 Speaker 1: shaded timber food plot. Would it ever makes sense to 1727 01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:17,840 Speaker 1: girdle trees around the outside, around the border so that 1728 01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:20,680 Speaker 1: you are essentially maybe there's a bunch of trees with 1729 01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:23,320 Speaker 1: a really big canopy that are on the outside that 1730 01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:26,679 Speaker 1: would be shading your food plot. For those that aren't familiar, 1731 01:31:26,680 --> 01:31:29,200 Speaker 1: girdling is a way I've never I've actually not done 1732 01:31:29,240 --> 01:31:31,320 Speaker 1: it personally, but I've seen that they had cut around 1733 01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:33,439 Speaker 1: the tree and then apply a herbicide and that kills 1734 01:31:33,439 --> 01:31:36,439 Speaker 1: that tree. Um. Is that a kind of easy way 1735 01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:39,919 Speaker 1: to give you like a shade border or a removing 1736 01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:41,720 Speaker 1: shade or on the border. Is that something you've ever 1737 01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:44,320 Speaker 1: thought about? It is a way to do that, for sure, 1738 01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:47,639 Speaker 1: But I would caution you if it's a marketable tree, um, 1739 01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:49,280 Speaker 1: I would have sold it and gotten it down there 1740 01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:52,439 Speaker 1: already anyway. But if that's if it's just a way 1741 01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:54,720 Speaker 1: that you're you know, the the your approach and you're 1742 01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:57,160 Speaker 1: coming in, you've got the the little spot that you 1743 01:31:57,200 --> 01:31:59,559 Speaker 1: can clear and open in it. And it doesn't involve 1744 01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:03,320 Speaker 1: a timp timber harvest. First of all, definitely, Mark, let's 1745 01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:05,720 Speaker 1: let's identify it. If it's a beautiful white oak tree, 1746 01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:08,800 Speaker 1: we're not. We don't want to do that or or 1747 01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:12,640 Speaker 1: any of the others down that list of desirable marketable species. 1748 01:32:13,160 --> 01:32:15,559 Speaker 1: But um, yeah, let's say it's a let's just say 1749 01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:18,840 Speaker 1: it's a hackberry or or or a beach or an 1750 01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:21,840 Speaker 1: aspen or something like that that has little to no 1751 01:32:22,040 --> 01:32:25,320 Speaker 1: value for us whatsoever either through um. And I know 1752 01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:27,799 Speaker 1: people are going to argue and say beach trees produce 1753 01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:33,560 Speaker 1: a nut. They absolutely do. But in my in my property, um, 1754 01:32:33,600 --> 01:32:37,200 Speaker 1: there are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of beach and 1755 01:32:37,200 --> 01:32:40,880 Speaker 1: they're directly competing because their shade tolerant and my oaks 1756 01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:44,639 Speaker 1: are not. So UM, you just do what you're working with. 1757 01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:48,320 Speaker 1: In my case, I have no issue with removing as 1758 01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:50,120 Speaker 1: many beach as I can, because I never will be 1759 01:32:50,160 --> 01:32:52,320 Speaker 1: able to remove them all, and I would much rather 1760 01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:54,719 Speaker 1: have an oak tree of one sort or a fashion 1761 01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:57,920 Speaker 1: growing there instead. Of a beech tree. But back to 1762 01:32:57,920 --> 01:33:00,800 Speaker 1: the point. The only down I that I could see 1763 01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:03,679 Speaker 1: to what you recommended or mentioned there is it eventually 1764 01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:06,320 Speaker 1: that tree is going to fall. Um, large limbs are 1765 01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:10,080 Speaker 1: going to break off it off over time, and in 1766 01:33:10,120 --> 01:33:11,960 Speaker 1: a big wind is going to push it over some day. 1767 01:33:11,960 --> 01:33:15,040 Speaker 1: So consider that for number one, are you gonna be 1768 01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:17,519 Speaker 1: prepared to deal with it when it falls and have 1769 01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:19,160 Speaker 1: to cut it up and move it out of your plot? 1770 01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:22,280 Speaker 1: But number two, please be careful about hunting around those 1771 01:33:22,280 --> 01:33:26,559 Speaker 1: things too. I've seen ringed or or girdled trees in 1772 01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:29,800 Speaker 1: a windstorm um near by me, and I've climbed down 1773 01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:32,559 Speaker 1: just because I felt like, you know, that's certainly not 1774 01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:36,080 Speaker 1: a good scenario there that anything could happen. Yeah, that's 1775 01:33:36,080 --> 01:33:41,120 Speaker 1: a great point. Wouldn't want to be in that scenario, Um, yeah, yeah, 1776 01:33:41,160 --> 01:33:45,040 Speaker 1: that would be UM. I don't think we need to 1777 01:33:45,120 --> 01:33:50,080 Speaker 1: go into the basics of of food plots. Um. We've 1778 01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:52,240 Speaker 1: talked a lot about cover, We've talked a lot about 1779 01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:55,519 Speaker 1: some of the specific or some specific things about how 1780 01:33:55,560 --> 01:33:58,000 Speaker 1: to position food plots and things like that in the timber, 1781 01:33:58,040 --> 01:34:00,120 Speaker 1: But as far as like what to plant, you know, 1782 01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:03,040 Speaker 1: everyone wants to know, like what's your favorite thing to 1783 01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:04,720 Speaker 1: plan or what should I plant my food plot? Or 1784 01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:07,360 Speaker 1: should I do this clover this sybeing or or this 1785 01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:11,560 Speaker 1: or whatever. I don't know if there's necessarily value to 1786 01:34:11,640 --> 01:34:14,080 Speaker 1: saying like here's the best blend to buy, but what 1787 01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:16,799 Speaker 1: I am always interested in and what I think probably 1788 01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:19,360 Speaker 1: the better question is for someone to be thinking about 1789 01:34:19,400 --> 01:34:21,280 Speaker 1: when they have a food plot that they're gonna try 1790 01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:22,840 Speaker 1: planning for the first time or that they want to 1791 01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:27,400 Speaker 1: experiment with. It's probably just it's probably just how do 1792 01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:30,640 Speaker 1: you go about making that decision? Like what are the 1793 01:34:30,760 --> 01:34:33,760 Speaker 1: right questions to ask? Is an individual to get to 1794 01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:36,640 Speaker 1: the right answer as far as what to plant? Um, So, 1795 01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:39,640 Speaker 1: could you walk us through, Tom the things that you 1796 01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:42,200 Speaker 1: are thinking about in your mind when you have an 1797 01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:44,400 Speaker 1: opening and you're going to plan a food plot. What 1798 01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:47,280 Speaker 1: are all the questions you're asking to yourself to come 1799 01:34:47,320 --> 01:34:50,000 Speaker 1: to the final answer of what should be planet here? Sure? 1800 01:34:50,280 --> 01:34:57,080 Speaker 1: The underlying probably first question would be is this going 1801 01:34:57,160 --> 01:35:01,400 Speaker 1: to be a Am I considering this a nutritional feeding plot? 1802 01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:04,120 Speaker 1: Or is this a spot that I want to just 1803 01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:06,800 Speaker 1: have maximum attraction and I want to be able to 1804 01:35:06,840 --> 01:35:08,880 Speaker 1: hunt the edges of this when the wind allows me 1805 01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:12,880 Speaker 1: to do that. They can, they can provide a book. UM, 1806 01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:15,000 Speaker 1: but I guess what I'm getting at is, are you 1807 01:35:15,040 --> 01:35:18,000 Speaker 1: looking at a at an annual situation that you're going 1808 01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:21,799 Speaker 1: to plant in late summer early fall where that plant 1809 01:35:21,840 --> 01:35:24,639 Speaker 1: is just starting to kick in and do maximum growth 1810 01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:32,360 Speaker 1: and providing real palatable, soft, tender, young nutritional plants UM 1811 01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:37,640 Speaker 1: as opposed to planning something either the spring before or 1812 01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:41,280 Speaker 1: even the fall before. That is a perennial plant that 1813 01:35:41,320 --> 01:35:44,040 Speaker 1: you're going to have to maintain throughout the year. But 1814 01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:47,439 Speaker 1: it's also going to be providing year round or close 1815 01:35:47,520 --> 01:35:50,280 Speaker 1: to year round as much as possible during the growing 1816 01:35:50,280 --> 01:35:53,400 Speaker 1: season nutrition UM for a for a thriving gear herd. 1817 01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:57,519 Speaker 1: So you can pretty much simply UM carve it into 1818 01:35:57,520 --> 01:35:59,400 Speaker 1: two big groups right off the bat. A lot of 1819 01:35:59,400 --> 01:36:01,680 Speaker 1: guys don't they care about the other. They just want 1820 01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:04,519 Speaker 1: to plant something to hunt and UM you know that 1821 01:36:04,680 --> 01:36:08,000 Speaker 1: that's that's fine. Everybody's got their own objective. As crazy 1822 01:36:08,080 --> 01:36:10,679 Speaker 1: land managers that can't get enough of it are planning 1823 01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:14,879 Speaker 1: um different food sources, both warm and cool season plants 1824 01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:18,360 Speaker 1: and also perennials in some fashion or form and relationship 1825 01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:22,280 Speaker 1: to one another to always have the highest possible nutrition 1826 01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:24,640 Speaker 1: on our farm or on our property to keep our 1827 01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:27,880 Speaker 1: deal here number one, keep them there, but also healthy 1828 01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:35,160 Speaker 1: and growing and maximized. So I would say, uh, equipment 1829 01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:37,960 Speaker 1: is probably a second choice or a second factor if 1830 01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:40,280 Speaker 1: if you're just going to be doing some light maybe 1831 01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:45,559 Speaker 1: even hand tools, it can certainly, um make things a 1832 01:36:45,560 --> 01:36:48,080 Speaker 1: little bit easier to decide. You may not want to 1833 01:36:48,120 --> 01:36:52,519 Speaker 1: spend sixty for an acre bag of of perennial clover 1834 01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:55,880 Speaker 1: um when when um, you know, all you've got to 1835 01:36:55,880 --> 01:37:00,200 Speaker 1: work with as a rake in a in a leaf blower. Um. 1836 01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:03,160 Speaker 1: So if you've got big equipment or or any any 1837 01:37:03,200 --> 01:37:06,160 Speaker 1: type of equipment to get the job done, then then 1838 01:37:06,200 --> 01:37:08,280 Speaker 1: you can maybe think about something a little bit more, 1839 01:37:09,280 --> 01:37:12,400 Speaker 1: you know, full term and more more a perennial. I 1840 01:37:12,439 --> 01:37:15,320 Speaker 1: really do believe that old adage or the old saying 1841 01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:18,599 Speaker 1: mac Duma teaches this and the Dear Stuart programs two 1842 01:37:20,240 --> 01:37:22,680 Speaker 1: of your property should be dedicated sent three to five 1843 01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:27,280 Speaker 1: better of your total acreage and food. And if you 1844 01:37:28,360 --> 01:37:31,960 Speaker 1: can split that three up in the two or three 1845 01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:35,479 Speaker 1: types of food, you're you're even that much farther along 1846 01:37:36,280 --> 01:37:39,360 Speaker 1: and hedging your bets as far as spreading out the 1847 01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:42,240 Speaker 1: value and attraction of your food. So let me just 1848 01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:47,760 Speaker 1: give you a classic example. I've got soybeans ford soybeans 1849 01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:50,639 Speaker 1: in a field in the bottom, and up at the top, 1850 01:37:50,720 --> 01:37:54,719 Speaker 1: i've got a m around up ready alf alpha field 1851 01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:58,280 Speaker 1: that's in one plot. And I also then will go 1852 01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:02,360 Speaker 1: into an inner seed greens and grains into it in 1853 01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:06,240 Speaker 1: mid August with the machine. And so now I've got 1854 01:38:06,280 --> 01:38:09,439 Speaker 1: I've got winter wheat and some brassicas that are coming 1855 01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:12,720 Speaker 1: up in that round up ready plot. Because as the 1856 01:38:12,760 --> 01:38:15,799 Speaker 1: alphalfa starts to wane at the end of the growing 1857 01:38:15,800 --> 01:38:18,960 Speaker 1: season and say to the final cold freeze shuts it down, 1858 01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:22,880 Speaker 1: those other plants are now available there. Um. The soybeans, 1859 01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:26,200 Speaker 1: of course, are highly attractive forage through the summer. But 1860 01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:28,160 Speaker 1: then again the deer turned back to him again when 1861 01:38:28,160 --> 01:38:31,160 Speaker 1: the beans dry off and he gets cold if you're 1862 01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:35,360 Speaker 1: not using a forage type soybean when they leave start 1863 01:38:35,400 --> 01:38:37,599 Speaker 1: to yellow off here in the Midwest, usually the last 1864 01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:39,920 Speaker 1: week of August into the first two weeks of September, 1865 01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:43,080 Speaker 1: about the time antlers are drying down and velvet starts 1866 01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:46,920 Speaker 1: to peel. You can walk the soybean rows and broadcast 1867 01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:49,000 Speaker 1: greens and grains. When I say that I'm just kind 1868 01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:52,400 Speaker 1: of covering a broad spectrum of plants um into the 1869 01:38:52,439 --> 01:38:55,040 Speaker 1: bean rows and double up that food plot and make 1870 01:38:55,080 --> 01:38:58,080 Speaker 1: it a uh an extended attractive fields. So now you've 1871 01:38:58,120 --> 01:39:01,519 Speaker 1: got attractive lush green is growing in and you've got 1872 01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:03,600 Speaker 1: those standing soybean pods that they're going to be in 1873 01:39:03,600 --> 01:39:07,479 Speaker 1: there hammering when the weather gets cold. Um. And then 1874 01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:11,599 Speaker 1: another field may be directly just nothing but a disk 1875 01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:14,040 Speaker 1: the soil I've I've lined and fertilize it, and I've 1876 01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:18,080 Speaker 1: planted a fall blend of say annual clovers with a 1877 01:39:18,200 --> 01:39:22,559 Speaker 1: particular one or two wheat or oat species that I 1878 01:39:22,600 --> 01:39:26,720 Speaker 1: find useful that that work in conjunction with one another. UM. 1879 01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:30,000 Speaker 1: And of course White Tail Institute as our sponsored with 1880 01:39:30,040 --> 01:39:33,240 Speaker 1: whitetail properties, So I certainly look look at their broad 1881 01:39:33,280 --> 01:39:36,439 Speaker 1: spectrum available plants and there's there's a plant and a 1882 01:39:36,520 --> 01:39:39,840 Speaker 1: mix or a bland to suit any situation UM that 1883 01:39:39,880 --> 01:39:44,160 Speaker 1: we've talked about other than the crop type greens. Yeah. Yeah, 1884 01:39:44,160 --> 01:39:46,400 Speaker 1: I've had a lot of success with their with their 1885 01:39:46,439 --> 01:39:49,559 Speaker 1: seed as well. I've used the kind of combination that's 1886 01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:52,040 Speaker 1: worked for the couple of small plots that I'm able 1887 01:39:52,080 --> 01:39:54,120 Speaker 1: to plant on a property that I've got permission on. 1888 01:39:54,760 --> 01:39:58,000 Speaker 1: I've been doing, um, a mix of winter greens and 1889 01:39:58,040 --> 01:40:01,000 Speaker 1: then their oats, and I've done strips of at um 1890 01:40:01,080 --> 01:40:05,240 Speaker 1: to allow me to properly time when those things get planted. Um. 1891 01:40:05,439 --> 01:40:08,719 Speaker 1: But but yeah, I love your your approach to having 1892 01:40:08,720 --> 01:40:11,360 Speaker 1: a diversity of food laid out in kind of strategic 1893 01:40:11,439 --> 01:40:13,599 Speaker 1: way so there's something for deer at all times of year. 1894 01:40:13,880 --> 01:40:16,639 Speaker 1: And then I gotta believe that by doing that, you're 1895 01:40:16,680 --> 01:40:21,080 Speaker 1: able to pattern deer movement in certain places based off 1896 01:40:21,080 --> 01:40:24,800 Speaker 1: of that most palatable food source. Right absolutely, And you'll 1897 01:40:24,800 --> 01:40:27,840 Speaker 1: see the change. You'll see deer transition from one and 1898 01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:30,559 Speaker 1: even in the field when you have a um, just 1899 01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:32,839 Speaker 1: say you have a blend of four or five different 1900 01:40:32,840 --> 01:40:36,360 Speaker 1: species out there, you'll see deer selectively constantly moving and 1901 01:40:36,560 --> 01:40:39,720 Speaker 1: they may be selecting this particular clover for this three 1902 01:40:39,800 --> 01:40:42,000 Speaker 1: or four days this week, and then as that plant 1903 01:40:42,040 --> 01:40:44,280 Speaker 1: begins to mature and another one's coming on and it's 1904 01:40:44,280 --> 01:40:47,960 Speaker 1: at its highest palatable protein level, they're selecting that. They're 1905 01:40:48,120 --> 01:40:50,760 Speaker 1: amazing creatures, they know exactly what's best for them and 1906 01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:54,200 Speaker 1: they can select that out. So um, yeah, it changes 1907 01:40:54,240 --> 01:40:57,080 Speaker 1: through the season, just like the minute that the first, 1908 01:40:57,160 --> 01:40:59,720 Speaker 1: soyping leaves start to yellow, they become dried out. There 1909 01:40:59,720 --> 01:41:01,519 Speaker 1: no the attract at the deer and a switch from 1910 01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:05,000 Speaker 1: soybeans and go to a green grain, a green um 1911 01:41:06,240 --> 01:41:10,519 Speaker 1: cereal grain, or a clover or a young brassica plants. 1912 01:41:11,439 --> 01:41:16,519 Speaker 1: So it's they certainly are very selective. And the word 1913 01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:21,040 Speaker 1: is browsers. You know, they browse and they people say grays. 1914 01:41:21,120 --> 01:41:24,559 Speaker 1: They browse. Their designed their mouths are designed to clip 1915 01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:28,160 Speaker 1: and twigs and shoots and the ends of weeds and 1916 01:41:28,160 --> 01:41:30,760 Speaker 1: everything too. But they they've got that soft palate and 1917 01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:33,680 Speaker 1: and that uh, those lower teeth. But they're out there 1918 01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:37,880 Speaker 1: clipping off fresh forage and they know what's good for them, 1919 01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:41,240 Speaker 1: so they're purposely selecting that out. Yeah, it's kind of 1920 01:41:41,280 --> 01:41:46,280 Speaker 1: amazing that they whatever, know, whatever mechanism it is that 1921 01:41:46,360 --> 01:41:49,800 Speaker 1: allows them to select. They are able to select the 1922 01:41:49,920 --> 01:41:52,240 Speaker 1: very most nutritious thing at just the right time of 1923 01:41:52,320 --> 01:41:57,160 Speaker 1: year for that specific pliant matter um to benefit them most, 1924 01:41:57,200 --> 01:41:59,439 Speaker 1: which is kind of amazing. I wish that I had 1925 01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:01,200 Speaker 1: that kind of tuti so I knew not to keep 1926 01:42:01,200 --> 01:42:03,880 Speaker 1: eating the Wendy's hamburgers all the time. Well, I think 1927 01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:06,160 Speaker 1: we're there at an advantage that they can probably tell 1928 01:42:06,240 --> 01:42:09,719 Speaker 1: through taste. That's my that's my my guide. INSTA tells 1929 01:42:09,720 --> 01:42:12,920 Speaker 1: me that they're able to taste UM, and it has 1930 01:42:13,040 --> 01:42:15,240 Speaker 1: a certain appeal when it's just at the highest peak 1931 01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:19,280 Speaker 1: where the stuff that tastes good good, it's not always 1932 01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:21,840 Speaker 1: the best that's so good for you. Yeah, we need 1933 01:42:21,880 --> 01:42:26,040 Speaker 1: to figure out some way to flip that around. So 1934 01:42:26,200 --> 01:42:29,679 Speaker 1: UM some time, I feel like I we're gonna get 1935 01:42:29,720 --> 01:42:32,160 Speaker 1: going really long here if I'm not careful to rein 1936 01:42:32,240 --> 01:42:34,719 Speaker 1: us in because we've we've covered a lot of interesting stuff. 1937 01:42:34,760 --> 01:42:37,160 Speaker 1: I'm really enjoying this, but there's a lot more I 1938 01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:39,800 Speaker 1: want to talk about UM. So I'm gonna force I'm 1939 01:42:39,800 --> 01:42:42,280 Speaker 1: gonna force myself to stop so that we don't keep 1940 01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:44,960 Speaker 1: you all night. And I'm just ask you one final question, 1941 01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:50,000 Speaker 1: which is you know, your work with white tailed properties 1942 01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:52,280 Speaker 1: and your work with the management advantage and all the 1943 01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:55,280 Speaker 1: different things you've done UM has put you in contact. 1944 01:42:55,400 --> 01:42:59,200 Speaker 1: I gotta believe with some of the most knowledgeable UM 1945 01:42:59,320 --> 01:43:04,760 Speaker 1: experience inst deer hunters and managers of land and wildlife, 1946 01:43:05,200 --> 01:43:08,720 Speaker 1: some of the very best probably the entire country. UM. 1947 01:43:08,760 --> 01:43:12,160 Speaker 1: When you look at that that top tier, those very 1948 01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:15,880 Speaker 1: best folks who really know how to manage wildlife and 1949 01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:19,200 Speaker 1: habitat and do it to like that next level. What 1950 01:43:19,200 --> 01:43:21,880 Speaker 1: what stands out to you about those people, because I 1951 01:43:21,920 --> 01:43:23,720 Speaker 1: gotta believe there's a lot of us, people like me 1952 01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:25,800 Speaker 1: and other people who have who have dabbled with it, 1953 01:43:25,880 --> 01:43:28,519 Speaker 1: who had a small property maybe or maybe they've got 1954 01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:30,640 Speaker 1: a decent sized chunk and they've been working on for 1955 01:43:30,680 --> 01:43:32,760 Speaker 1: the years, but they're trying to find out how do 1956 01:43:32,840 --> 01:43:34,920 Speaker 1: I take things to the next step? How do I 1957 01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:39,679 Speaker 1: how do I find excellence? How how do you define excellence? 1958 01:43:39,760 --> 01:43:41,800 Speaker 1: Or what different traits when you look at the very 1959 01:43:41,800 --> 01:43:43,559 Speaker 1: best of the best out there stand out to you 1960 01:43:43,640 --> 01:43:46,120 Speaker 1: That would be helpful for us to to keep in mind. 1961 01:43:46,680 --> 01:43:50,920 Speaker 1: I think it's an insatiable appetite and desire to always 1962 01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:53,880 Speaker 1: want to learn more. And of course you've got to 1963 01:43:53,920 --> 01:43:57,960 Speaker 1: have that absolute, just crazy passion for deer. Just we 1964 01:43:58,000 --> 01:44:01,240 Speaker 1: all love hit kil deer and know that that's obviously 1965 01:44:01,240 --> 01:44:03,800 Speaker 1: a common thread. And we all love antlers. We love 1966 01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:08,360 Speaker 1: holding big antlers. Um, it's everybody, you know. There there's 1967 01:44:08,360 --> 01:44:11,240 Speaker 1: gonna be the criticism where you guys are just about trophies. No, No, 1968 01:44:11,439 --> 01:44:14,600 Speaker 1: I'm not. Um we we we love mature dear, I 1969 01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:17,519 Speaker 1: don't care what it scores. We love that's that's that's 1970 01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:21,000 Speaker 1: what drives my daughters and I is selecting that the 1971 01:44:21,040 --> 01:44:24,439 Speaker 1: best oldest mature buck we can grow on our property. Um. 1972 01:44:24,479 --> 01:44:29,240 Speaker 1: But getting back to the the guy that has it, UM. 1973 01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:32,639 Speaker 1: The people that I respect in the industry are are 1974 01:44:32,800 --> 01:44:35,240 Speaker 1: just insatiably hungry and wanting to learn more. And I 1975 01:44:35,240 --> 01:44:37,800 Speaker 1: think it's it's you've gotta you've gotta give a guy 1976 01:44:38,120 --> 01:44:42,519 Speaker 1: do do credit for putting in time and the trenches, 1977 01:44:42,760 --> 01:44:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, the the the older guys. And I guess 1978 01:44:46,280 --> 01:44:48,200 Speaker 1: and I don't look at myself as a pro or 1979 01:44:48,240 --> 01:44:51,679 Speaker 1: as as someone to I don't. I'm just I'm humbled 1980 01:44:51,720 --> 01:44:53,920 Speaker 1: that you called and asked me to talk today. I'd 1981 01:44:53,960 --> 01:44:55,960 Speaker 1: never look at myself as in comparison or in the 1982 01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:57,880 Speaker 1: same ballpark as any of the guys that I'm that 1983 01:44:57,960 --> 01:45:00,639 Speaker 1: I look up to. But I just I just think 1984 01:45:00,680 --> 01:45:03,160 Speaker 1: that there is that there's something to be said about 1985 01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:05,599 Speaker 1: somebody that's been around the block many times and has 1986 01:45:05,680 --> 01:45:08,640 Speaker 1: done it and seeing what works and what doesn't and 1987 01:45:08,680 --> 01:45:12,200 Speaker 1: can help guys that are just getting started and way 1988 01:45:12,280 --> 01:45:15,120 Speaker 1: shorten their learning curve by Hey, don't do that. I 1989 01:45:15,160 --> 01:45:17,240 Speaker 1: did that five years ago, and it was a disaster. 1990 01:45:17,560 --> 01:45:19,880 Speaker 1: Here's the better way, you know, And if you can 1991 01:45:19,920 --> 01:45:23,000 Speaker 1: keep guys um from wasting time and wasting money and 1992 01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:25,439 Speaker 1: wasting you know, let's face that you do something wrong 1993 01:45:25,479 --> 01:45:27,599 Speaker 1: one deer season or one food plot season, you may 1994 01:45:27,600 --> 01:45:30,160 Speaker 1: be stuck till a year or twelve months from then 1995 01:45:30,160 --> 01:45:32,240 Speaker 1: to be able to rectify it and do it over again. 1996 01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:36,360 Speaker 1: So always get your hands on man. When I was younger, 1997 01:45:36,400 --> 01:45:38,360 Speaker 1: it was reading, you know, I read Red, Red Red, 1998 01:45:38,439 --> 01:45:41,000 Speaker 1: and every article i I could get my hands on 1999 01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:45,479 Speaker 1: quality White Tales magazine and reading from the best and 2000 01:45:45,640 --> 01:45:48,400 Speaker 1: obviously doing it and seeing what worked and making a 2001 01:45:48,439 --> 01:45:50,120 Speaker 1: mental note not to do that. Or true, it's do 2002 01:45:50,120 --> 01:45:55,320 Speaker 1: this differently, keeping keeping good records. Don't be afraid to 2003 01:45:55,439 --> 01:45:58,240 Speaker 1: take advice from others. Don't be so um, you know, 2004 01:45:59,160 --> 01:46:02,280 Speaker 1: high minded it that there's not a better way or 2005 01:46:02,320 --> 01:46:05,720 Speaker 1: somebody that can help you understand a slight twist or 2006 01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:09,200 Speaker 1: turn that could make your results better. But yeah, just 2007 01:46:09,240 --> 01:46:12,360 Speaker 1: be constantly hungry to want to to want to learn more, 2008 01:46:12,920 --> 01:46:16,559 Speaker 1: and uh you can just immerse yourself in it. Yeah, 2009 01:46:16,840 --> 01:46:21,160 Speaker 1: that's great, great advice. And uh, I think without a doubt, 2010 01:46:21,160 --> 01:46:23,000 Speaker 1: and I think anyone who has heard this conversation would 2011 01:46:23,040 --> 01:46:25,800 Speaker 1: certainly put you in the same category as anyone else 2012 01:46:25,840 --> 01:46:28,639 Speaker 1: out there who's who's sharing some really really helpful advice. 2013 01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:31,160 Speaker 1: As far as these things I've I've found this really enjoyable, 2014 01:46:31,200 --> 01:46:34,200 Speaker 1: So so thank you for that, Tom, and UM for 2015 01:46:34,240 --> 01:46:37,800 Speaker 1: folks that want to get in touch with you about 2016 01:46:38,040 --> 01:46:40,160 Speaker 1: a property, or who want to learn about what you're doing, 2017 01:46:40,240 --> 01:46:42,120 Speaker 1: or who want to see or your film hunts or 2018 01:46:42,160 --> 01:46:45,400 Speaker 1: anything like that. Um, where can people go online or 2019 01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:49,080 Speaker 1: get in touch with you? Sure? Um, well, you can 2020 01:46:49,080 --> 01:46:51,479 Speaker 1: certainly just go to white Tail Properties dot com and 2021 01:46:51,520 --> 01:46:54,680 Speaker 1: click on the state of Indiana and my name will 2022 01:46:54,720 --> 01:46:57,519 Speaker 1: be there, Tom James, or you can email me at 2023 01:46:57,600 --> 01:47:01,320 Speaker 1: Tom dot James at white Tail property dot com. Um, 2024 01:47:01,360 --> 01:47:03,240 Speaker 1: you can certainly also go if you want to see 2025 01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:05,920 Speaker 1: what we've been doing as far as some habitat work, 2026 01:47:06,479 --> 01:47:09,240 Speaker 1: the land Beat series by white Tail Properties. I've been 2027 01:47:09,280 --> 01:47:12,559 Speaker 1: fortunate enough to be asked to be involved with the 2028 01:47:12,640 --> 01:47:17,000 Speaker 1: digital program land Beat, which white Tail Properties is is 2029 01:47:17,040 --> 01:47:20,040 Speaker 1: excited to be ramping up to many more episodes a year, 2030 01:47:20,479 --> 01:47:23,479 Speaker 1: and we're we're doing and filming exactly the stuff that 2031 01:47:23,479 --> 01:47:26,240 Speaker 1: we're talking about today, Mark, which is awesome. You know, 2032 01:47:26,280 --> 01:47:29,880 Speaker 1: all land related and dear habitat management related stuff. Um, 2033 01:47:29,920 --> 01:47:33,920 Speaker 1: it'll be short, interesting segments and often several other guys 2034 01:47:34,040 --> 01:47:36,280 Speaker 1: on the White Tail staff are are going to be 2035 01:47:36,320 --> 01:47:39,519 Speaker 1: involved in that. And then the Management Advantage dot Com 2036 01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:44,960 Speaker 1: my buddies, Casey Shutman, Chuck Pikes, Howard O'Neil um, Eric Long. 2037 01:47:45,160 --> 01:47:47,680 Speaker 1: There's several guys that's that's in that group that have 2038 01:47:47,760 --> 01:47:51,040 Speaker 1: been long involved in that, and we contribute as we 2039 01:47:51,120 --> 01:47:55,759 Speaker 1: can current relative topics to what we're doing on our properties. 2040 01:47:55,760 --> 01:47:58,800 Speaker 1: Were trying to film and show that work being done 2041 01:47:58,800 --> 01:48:01,280 Speaker 1: and the results of that being on So folks can 2042 01:48:01,320 --> 01:48:04,400 Speaker 1: go back through the archives of that program either on 2043 01:48:04,439 --> 01:48:07,280 Speaker 1: the website or on the YouTube channel and search up 2044 01:48:07,280 --> 01:48:09,640 Speaker 1: the topic and you'll see us doing and doing it 2045 01:48:09,720 --> 01:48:13,639 Speaker 1: somewhere in the past. And then we we allow times 2046 01:48:13,680 --> 01:48:16,000 Speaker 1: like to include hunts that that show the result of 2047 01:48:16,040 --> 01:48:18,920 Speaker 1: that hard work that we've put into it. Excellent. Well, 2048 01:48:19,439 --> 01:48:22,439 Speaker 1: i I've I've watched the videos, I've I've seen the 2049 01:48:22,520 --> 01:48:25,639 Speaker 1: land beat things you're doing. I've been kind of privy 2050 01:48:25,680 --> 01:48:27,519 Speaker 1: to some of these different things you're up to, and 2051 01:48:27,560 --> 01:48:30,559 Speaker 1: everything seems pretty darn excellent. Time. You've been helping a 2052 01:48:30,560 --> 01:48:32,439 Speaker 1: lot of folks out and I think you did here 2053 01:48:32,439 --> 01:48:34,800 Speaker 1: today too, So so thank you for thank you very 2054 01:48:34,840 --> 01:48:38,040 Speaker 1: much for saying that. Yeah, and good luck with the 2055 01:48:38,120 --> 01:48:41,800 Speaker 1: upcoming spring and summer work on on your properties. Yeah, 2056 01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:44,000 Speaker 1: I've got that big project right around the corner, and 2057 01:48:44,040 --> 01:48:46,559 Speaker 1: I'm more excited about that than anything I have been 2058 01:48:46,600 --> 01:48:48,960 Speaker 1: in a very long time. It sounds like it's going 2059 01:48:49,000 --> 01:48:51,960 Speaker 1: to be a good one, yes, sir, all right, Tom, 2060 01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:56,160 Speaker 1: let's talk again soon. Thanks Mark, And that is going 2061 01:48:56,240 --> 01:48:59,240 Speaker 1: to be a rap. So if you'd like more information 2062 01:48:59,240 --> 01:49:01,759 Speaker 1: about anything we've talked about, you know, as Tom mentioned, 2063 01:49:01,760 --> 01:49:04,080 Speaker 1: you can find his information over at White Tailed Properties 2064 01:49:04,120 --> 01:49:07,639 Speaker 1: dot com. Uh. Please participate in shed rally this coming weekend. 2065 01:49:07,640 --> 01:49:09,240 Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lot of fun. I'll be out 2066 01:49:09,280 --> 01:49:11,320 Speaker 1: there looking for antlers. Make sure you wear your Wired 2067 01:49:11,400 --> 01:49:13,280 Speaker 1: Hunt hats and shirts so you can be included in 2068 01:49:13,320 --> 01:49:16,200 Speaker 1: the giveaway. And otherwise, I just want to wish you 2069 01:49:16,200 --> 01:49:18,240 Speaker 1: guys luck, good luck out there looking for antlers, have 2070 01:49:18,280 --> 01:49:23,679 Speaker 1: a great time, and until next time, stay wired. Tot