1 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: We're not law enforcement. We're not lawyers, we're not prosecutors, 2 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: we're not. 3 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: DNA experts. 4 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 3: We're just mom and dad. 5 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: We're just mom and dad. And all we could do 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: is trust this system. Well, you have no other choice. 7 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you could spend a lot of energy being 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: really angry or caught up in the process, but there 9 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: there's nothing we could do. We just decided to make 10 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: sure that we were figuring out how to honor Ethan 11 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: and kind of bring his memory along with us. 12 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 4: It's been weeks since four students were murdered in their 13 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 4: off campus house near the University of Idaho, and for 14 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 4: the first time, DNA from the crime scene is pointing 15 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 4: police to a possible suspect. This is America's crime Lab. 16 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 4: I'm Alan Lance Lesser. This is Part three of the 17 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 4: Idaho's Student Murder Case. If you missed the first two episodes, 18 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 4: please go back and listen. I'm here with producer Catherine 19 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 4: Fenalosa and Catherine. When we left off, authorm had traced 20 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 4: the suspects family to Pennsylvania. 21 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just after Thanksgiving and the Moscow community is 22 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 5: still on edge. I mean, police haven't made an arrest. Meanwhile, 23 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 5: students are returning and break and they're terrified. I mean, 24 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 5: they're making sure their doors are locked, they're only venturing 25 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 5: out in groups. You can just feel a real sense 26 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 5: of panic. And in the middle of all of this fear, 27 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 5: the University of Idaho decides to hold a vigil to 28 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 5: honor the victims, Ethan, Xanna, Maddie, and Kayley, and they 29 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 5: hold it in the school's huge indoor football stadium. The 30 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 5: school feels it's important, you know, for them all to 31 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 5: come together to grieve, but police are worried that the 32 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 5: murder might actually show up and stage an attack at 33 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 5: this event. 34 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 4: Well yeah, I mean, I can see why the murderers 35 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 4: felt so random and so violent, and unless someone really 36 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 4: had a grudge against the group of friends living in 37 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 4: that house, it does feel like a totally senseless act, which, 38 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 4: in my opinion, is way scarier anyone could be the target. 39 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 5: Yeah, they have police stationed everywhere, They've got undercover agents 40 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 5: mixing in the crowd with the students. You have to 41 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 5: go through a metal detector to even enter the building, 42 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 5: and the families of Xana, Kaylee, Maddie, and Ethan speak 43 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 5: and it's just heartbreaking. I mean, They're on this big 44 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 5: stage and they're trying to say something meaningful, but they're 45 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 5: clearly in a state of shock. I mean, they honestly 46 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 5: don't know what to say. They're just struggling. 47 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 4: And to do that publicly. I can't imagine how difficult 48 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 4: that is. 49 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 5: And the families have also been planning funerals. This is 50 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 5: Ethan's mom, Stacy. 51 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: I remember our friend Kirk, he's the director of the 52 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: funeral home, and he was like, you guys might need 53 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: to do this at a high school or you know, 54 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: in a gym. And because the place we'd picked only 55 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: held like six hundred and Jim and I were like, well, 56 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: we really I don't even know if we know that 57 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: many people, I mean, you know, and we not the 58 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: memorial out of the park. It was thousands of people. 59 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: Jim had classmates show up that he hadn't seen since 60 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: high school. There were people that I'd worked with from 61 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: my very first job, and the entire fraternity showed up. 62 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: It was pretty amazing. 63 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 5: Authorities are holding two meetings a day so that everyone 64 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 5: on the investigation is on the same page, because you've 65 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 5: got a lot of agencies involved. There's the FBI, the 66 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 5: Moscow Police, the Idaho State Police, the state crime Lab, 67 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 5: and authroom. That's complicated, It's really complicated. And authorities are 68 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 5: tracking down the white Hyundai Lantra that was seen speeding 69 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 5: away from the King. 70 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 2: Roadhouse after the murders. 71 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 5: Police of Canvas local stores for leads on anyone who's 72 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 5: bought a k bar knife, the knife you know they 73 00:04:55,480 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 5: believed was used in the killings. Now authoram has worked 74 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 5: around the clock to create a detailed DNA profile of 75 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 5: the suspect, his historical background, and possible family members, and 76 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 5: they hand all of that information, their leads off to 77 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 5: the FBI, and after weeks of frustration, Prosecutor Bill Thompson says, 78 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 5: the case starts to break wide open. 79 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 6: Well, the first lead that took us to the defendant 80 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 6: was a lead that was developed through the investigative genetic 81 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 6: genealogy process that started with AUTHORM laboratories from the DNA 82 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 6: that was found on the knife sheath, and then the 83 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 6: investigation proceeded into genealogy to try to identify somebody who 84 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 6: might be related to the person who was responsible for this. 85 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 4: So we know the knife sheath is the big piece 86 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 4: of evidence, but did they find any other evidence in 87 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:53,239 Speaker 4: the house. 88 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 2: So it's interesting. 89 00:05:55,839 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 5: It's a six bedroom house that is occupied by college 90 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 5: students who we know have parties over the summer. There 91 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 5: was a change over with the roommates. There are a 92 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 5: lot of people in and out of that house. So 93 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 5: prosecutors said, you know, this was not a crime scene 94 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 5: where you could go in and swipe a door knob 95 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 5: or a light switch or even like collect DNA off of. 96 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 2: Bed sheets the couch. 97 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 5: You have so many people going in and out of 98 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 5: that house, so you're going to find a lot of 99 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 5: DNA from so many people that are just unrelated to 100 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 5: this crime, right. And it's tricky because the knife sheath 101 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 5: is really the only evidence at the crime scene with 102 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 5: the suspects DNA, and that was weighing heavily on Kristin 103 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 5: Middleman at Authrom. 104 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 7: That made it a lot more risky to go ahead 105 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 7: and proceed with testing because if you consume that evidence, 106 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 7: that might be the only evidence from this crime scene 107 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 7: that will ever exist. 108 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 5: The other thing that's interesting about the knife sheath is 109 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 5: that there's a leather strap at the top with a snap, 110 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 5: and that's what actually holds the knife in this holder. Now, Alen, 111 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 5: think about when you close a snap, you have to 112 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 5: like press down firmly with your thumb or finger, and 113 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 5: then when you open it, you're kind of flicking that 114 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 5: same thumb or finger against the snap and it you know, 115 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 5: it takes some effort to do and there's a lot 116 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 5: of contact between your thumb and the snap. In this case, 117 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 5: investigators didn't just have DNA, They actually had a lot 118 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 5: of it, and it was fresh. It hadn't you been 119 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 5: exposed to the elements, and it hadn't been sitting in 120 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 5: a police. 121 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: Locker for decades. 122 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 5: Because this was a recent crime, like really resent and 123 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 5: David Middleman at OUTHRAM says, that makes it kind of 124 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 5: different from working a cold case. 125 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 8: This was some of the best quality DNA we'd ever seen. 126 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 8: The challenge was just doing this very carefully and very 127 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 8: quickly so we can get leads back to investigators as 128 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 8: soon as possible. 129 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 5: Now, if you remember, as Authram does the forensic genetic genealogy, 130 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 5: they start to see clues that the suspect has family 131 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 5: in Pennsylvania. Police also have a list of all the 132 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 5: owners of white Hyundai Elantra's in the region. 133 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 4: The car seen speeding from the King roadhouse after the murders. 134 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, and so they're looking for Elantras with Pennsylvania connections, 135 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 5: and they actually find that there's a graduate student at 136 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 5: Washington State University in Pullman, Washington, which is less than 137 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 5: ten miles from Moscow where these murders happened, who had 138 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 5: originally registered their car on campus with Pennsylvania plates. 139 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 6: He actually went and changed the registry on his car 140 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 6: from Pennsylvania, which only requires a rear license plate, to Washington, 141 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 6: which requires front and rear license plates. 142 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 4: And that happened after the murders. 143 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, just days after the murders. 144 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 4: That is telling. It's interesting how it's a constellation of 145 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 4: pieces of evidence. It's not any one thing, it's everything 146 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 4: coming together. The DNA, the car, the change in license plate. 147 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 148 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 5: And then the FBI calls a big meeting and all 149 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 5: of the key players are there, you know, the prosecutors, 150 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 5: Moscow police, State police. They've gone from you know, twenty 151 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 5: thousand plus tips and lists of suspects, where everybody's eventually 152 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 5: been cleared. 153 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 4: They have twenty thousand tips to narrow down. That feels 154 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 4: nearly impossible. 155 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 5: Right, But in this meeting they suddenly learned that they 156 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 5: can narrow down the list of potential suspects and focus 157 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 5: on just one person. It's a guy named Brian Coberger 158 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 5: who is from Pennsylvania and Allen. He's a graduate student 159 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,239 Speaker 5: in criminology at Washington State University. 160 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 4: And let me guess his car is a white Hyundai Alantra. 161 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 9: I remember exactly that moment of hearing his name and 162 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 9: where he lived and what he drove and seeing his picture. 163 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 9: Our first reaction was disbelief, and it took a second 164 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 9: or to set in because it happened fairly quickly. I 165 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 9: don't think any of us were expecting an answer so quickly, 166 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 9: and so to get the answer, I wasn't expecting it. 167 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 9: So it was a shot. 168 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 2: Was he ever on a suspect list? 169 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 9: No, never heard his name before, didn't know he existed 170 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 9: until that moment. 171 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 10: Nomen Doug. 172 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 5: Prosecutor Ashley Jennings wasn't the only person who was shocked. 173 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 5: Captain Dustin Blaker of the Moscow Police actually thought the 174 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 5: FBI was joking when they said Brian Coburger's name, because 175 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 5: all along detectives have been saying like, oh, come on, 176 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 5: just give us a name to investigate. And then when 177 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 5: they heard his name, detectives were like, okay, stop kidding around. 178 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 5: They couldn't believe that after so many dead ends, forensic 179 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 5: genetic genealogy actually worked. 180 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 10: So once we got past the initial shock, it was excitement. 181 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 10: We had something. 182 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 9: Now we had a direction to go, and then it 183 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 9: really did change things. 184 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 5: For the first time. The entire investigative team sees a 185 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 5: picture of Brian Coburger and he looks just like how 186 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 5: Dylan the roommate described him, which is so remarkable. 187 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 4: In what way. 188 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 2: So just after four. 189 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 5: Am on November thirteenth, when Dylan opened up her bedroom 190 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 5: door where she saw a man dressed in all black 191 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 5: with a black ski mask covering his face, and he 192 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 5: brushed right by her. The only part of his face 193 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 5: that she could see was his eyes, right you know, 194 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 5: She says, he looked right at me and he had 195 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 5: these really big, bushy eyebrows. And now investigators are staring 196 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 5: at a photo of Brian Coburger and alan he has 197 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 5: these distinctive, big, bushy eyebrows. 198 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 10: We had an analyst with the FBI that went, Okay, 199 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 10: nobody go and start checking this guy's name online because 200 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 10: we don't know how smart he is. We don't know 201 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 10: if he has anything logged her in a computer system 202 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 10: somewhere that hey, someone's searching my name now. So it 203 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 10: was very hard for I know myself and some of 204 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 10: the other investigators to not do anything and actually go 205 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 10: home and try and sleep, which I didn't sleep very 206 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 10: well that night. I was too excited. 207 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 4: So the police and the FBI have a name, and 208 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 4: Police Captain Dustin Blaker can't sleep because he's excited to 209 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 4: finally have a solid lead. I don't blame him. This 210 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 4: is huge. So what happens the next day. 211 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 5: Well, they start looking through their records to see if 212 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 5: they've had any interaction with Brian Corberger, and it turns 213 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 5: out that a few months before the murders, he was 214 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 5: pulled over by Moscow police. 215 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 6: Our Sheriff's Department stopped his car for speeding. He got 216 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 6: a ticket for no seat belt, but we were able 217 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 6: then to identify him driving the car, confirmed that the 218 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 6: car was his, and at that time it was registered 219 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 6: still with his pencil plates, which includes just a rear 220 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 6: license plate. 221 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 5: Now authorities go to find Brian Coburger, but he's not 222 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 5: in Idaho and he's not in Pullman, Washington either. 223 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 6: And followed his trail and located him in Pennsylvania. 224 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 5: What we know now is that in December, right before 225 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 5: the DNA from the knife sheath is linked to Brian Coburger, 226 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 5: his father flew out to Washington State and the two 227 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 5: of them then drive across the country back to the 228 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 5: family home in Pennsylvania for the winter holidays in. 229 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 4: The white Houndai Elantra. 230 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, in the white Hyundai Elantra. And on that trip, 231 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 5: Brian Coberger and his dad are pulled over twice in 232 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 5: Indiana for tailgating. Police recently released the bodycam footage of 233 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 5: the traffic stops, and in one of those videos, you 234 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 5: can see the officer approach the car and the window 235 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 5: is down, his dad is sitting in the passenger seat, 236 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 5: and you know they're just like having sort of a 237 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 5: friendly conversation with the officer. Brian, he doesn't seem nervous 238 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 5: at all. 239 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 2: He's not agitated. 240 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 5: He leans down like toward his dad so he can 241 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 5: see the officer directly through the window. 242 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 4: He's like so calm, I'd get nervous being pulled over anytime. 243 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 4: The fact that it's possible he's just murdered four people 244 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 4: and still seem so calm. That's haunting or maybe says 245 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 4: something about him, But at this point police don't know 246 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 4: who they're talking to. 247 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 5: No, And what's so wild is that during both those stops, 248 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,239 Speaker 5: his dad actually mentions a fatal standoff at Washington State University, 249 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 5: where Brian is a grad student, that had just happened 250 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 5: the day before, totally unrelated to this crime. And his 251 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 5: dad tells the officers that he and his son were 252 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 5: just talking about that horrible scent. And now both of 253 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 5: these traffic stops he's let off with just a warning. 254 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 4: They're so close. 255 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 5: So when law enforcement can't find him in Washington or Idaho, 256 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 5: they start monitoring his parents' home in eastern Pennsylvania's in 257 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 5: the Poconos, and they learn that he has two sisters. 258 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 5: Now they can see that Brian Coberger and his dad 259 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 5: have returned from this cross country drive. They also start 260 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 5: to notice some odd behavior, so when Coburger exits the house, 261 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 5: he's usually wearing gloves, you know, like medical or latex gloves. 262 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 5: They can also see that he's parked his white Hondai 263 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 5: Lantra in the garage and Allen, they can see that 264 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 5: he's cleaning the car a lot. 265 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 4: Cleaning the Oh god, he's just trying to hide any 266 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 4: evidence or maybe trying to keep his DNA from being 267 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 4: able to be taken by law enforcement. 268 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 5: Now, authorities are gathered a lot of other pieces of evidence, 269 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 5: and they get search warrants for his cell phone. 270 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 10: And then as we started digging into his cell phone data, 271 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 10: we were able to determine that he had been in 272 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 10: that area twenty two or twenty three different times since 273 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 10: he moved here in June, near the King roadhouse. 274 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's between his cell phone pings and sightings 275 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 5: of his car, and authorities noticed something else really unusual. 276 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 5: So on the morning of the murders, his cell phone 277 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 5: pings a tower in Pullman, Washington, where Brian Koberger lives, 278 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 5: and that happens at two forty seven am, and then 279 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 5: it stops connecting with the network. It reconnects at four 280 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 5: forty eight am, but now it's south of Moscow. I 281 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 5: asked Captain Blaker about that, the fact. 282 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 10: That he had turned his phone off that night, which 283 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 10: is very unusual nowadays for kids this age, they just 284 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 10: don't do that. That's unheard of, that they're going to 285 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 10: turn their phone off completely. And then it reactivated two 286 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 10: hours after the homicide south of Moscow in a very 287 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 10: rural area. 288 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 5: Prosecutor Ashley Jennings says they were able to trace his car. 289 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,959 Speaker 9: We were able to then accumulate video surveillance showing a 290 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 9: white Lantro which matched his Lantra, entering back into the 291 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 9: Pullman area, going towards where he resided. 292 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 5: And then alen. His phone is also picked up near 293 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 5: the King Road house about five hours after the murders. 294 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 5: Authorities get search warrants for Coberger's financial records and they 295 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 5: spot some really unusual activity there too. 296 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 6: Before the murders, used a shop for a regularly using 297 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 6: this debit card or credit card over here in Moscow, 298 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 6: and that stopped right after the homicides, and he was 299 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 6: shopping in Pullman or He's doing a lot of cash 300 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 6: transactions which was also suspicious to us and something that 301 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 6: a jury could use to infer another acknowledgment or concern 302 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 6: about his own guilt and trying to keep a low profile. 303 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 5: They find a huge clue and it's pretty incriminating. 304 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 9: And then we learn about the Amazon purchase and things 305 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 9: just start falling into place. 306 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 5: Looking at his purchases, detectives see that when Coberger was 307 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 5: still living in Pennsylvania. He bought an Amazon gift. 308 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 9: Card and then immediately turned around and used the gift 309 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 9: card to purchase a kbar night sharpener and some vegan supplements, 310 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 9: And that all occurred before he even moved to the area. 311 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 4: So maybe he thought that by buying the gift card 312 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 4: it would cover his tracks, but it actually shows that 313 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 4: there could be some premeditation. 314 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, and like premeditation super far in advance. 315 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 9: I think it led investigators to believe that he was 316 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 9: already in the process of trying to cover as tracks unsuccessfully. 317 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 9: But there would be no other purpose that we could 318 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 9: uncover as to why you would purchase a gift card 319 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 9: for yourself and then use the gift card to make 320 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 9: purchases for yourself and use the entire thing other than 321 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 9: you felt that that in some way would hide the 322 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 9: purchases that you made, and we know that after the murders, 323 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 9: he went back in to that Amazon account and researched 324 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 9: if there was a way to delete your purchase history. 325 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 4: It's fascinating to me that once they had a name, 326 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 4: it seems like everything, all of this evidence reveals itself. 327 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 5: It really does. But as they're closing in authorities want 328 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 5: more DNA this time they need a reference sample. 329 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 4: Oh, I bet they do. I mean they need to 330 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 4: make sure they can connect DNA from family members in 331 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 4: this house in Pennsylvania to the person who left the 332 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 4: knife sheath in the bed next to Maddie and Kayley. 333 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 6: And the last big piece of evidence before we were 334 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 6: able to file charges is when the FBI did what's 335 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 6: called a trash pull at his parents'. 336 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 5: Residence a few days after Christmas. When the Coburgers put 337 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 5: their trash out for pickup, the FBI takes a few things. 338 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 4: It always gets me that law enforcement can just go 339 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 4: through people's trash. Is that really legal in every state? 340 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 5: So laws vary state by state, but basically yeah, I mean, 341 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 5: trash is considered abandoned property rather than private property once 342 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 5: you put it out for collection. In this case, authorities 343 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 5: arranged with the garbage company to pick up the Coburger's 344 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 5: trash and then hand it over to detectives. And as 345 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 5: they are looking through the bags, they find a Q 346 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 5: tip with ear wax on it. 347 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 6: And that was sent to the lab for analysis. 348 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 5: Now, the Q tip is sent to the Idaho State Lab. 349 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 5: And this is actually really important we know that AUTHORAM 350 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 5: built a DNA profile and that along with police work 351 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 5: like investigating the car and the suspicious registration swich, that 352 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 5: all led authorities to Brian Coberger. But now they need 353 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 5: confirmation and I sort of think of it as like 354 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 5: double checking your work. 355 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 4: That makes sense. 356 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 5: Instead of sending the Q tip to AUTHRAM, they test 357 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 5: it at the State Lab, so it's a different lab 358 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 5: using a different kind of DNA tests from AUTHORM to 359 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 5: see if they get the same answer. Basically, does the 360 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 5: DNA point to the same suspect. 361 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 6: And the Idaho State Lab identified as being DNA from 362 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 6: the father of the person whose DNA was on the 363 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 6: knife sheath. 364 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 5: We also know from earlier DNA testing of the knife 365 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 5: sheath that the DNA is from a mail and Brian 366 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 5: doesn't have a brother, He's only got sisters. So at 367 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 5: this point you have two forensic labs working completely independently 368 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 5: from one another and using two different methods, and they 369 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 5: both point to the same suspect, Brian Cooberger. 370 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 6: The other thing about the DNA that was unique and 371 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 6: really important is it was sole source DNA from a male. 372 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 6: In other words, there was no mixture of DNA. It 373 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 6: wasn't something that maybe inadvertently his DNA had been on 374 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 6: somebody else's hand and then they transferred it to the sheath. 375 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 6: It wasn't that at all. It was a direct transfer 376 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 6: from the defendant to the snap on that sheath, and 377 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 6: that was powerful evidence. At that point, we believed we 378 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 6: had enough evidence to file charges, and that's when we 379 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 6: got the arrest warrant. 380 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 5: Moscow Police Captain Dustin Blaker says, detectives are racing to 381 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 5: get to Pennsylvania with the arrest warrant. 382 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 10: Luckily, we had a local business in this area who 383 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 10: has private jets that like take them. I'll give you 384 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 10: my jet, I'll pay for the fuel, I'll pay for everything, 385 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,479 Speaker 10: and put our guys on the plane and send them 386 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 10: all the way to Pennsylvania that night. So it turned 387 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 10: around very quickly, and it was just excitement. 388 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 5: On December thirtieth, a team of investigators and prosecutors are 389 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,919 Speaker 5: gathered in a room at the Moscow Police Department and 390 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 5: they're watching a live feed from Pennsylvania where officers are 391 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 5: surveilling the coburger house. Prosecutor Bill Thompson says, it's shortly 392 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 5: after midnight. 393 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 6: It appeared that everybody in the house was asleep, except 394 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 6: he was up. He was seen by one of the 395 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 6: surveillance officers in the kitchen area of the house and 396 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 6: then looked like maybe he'd gone down to the garage 397 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 6: area of the house, and about at that point they 398 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 6: gave the green light for the teams to enter the 399 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 6: residence and they apprehended him in the basement. 400 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 2: WHOA, this is intense. 401 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 5: He doesn't put up a fight. Five days later, Brian 402 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 5: Coberger is extradited back to Idaho and Moscow Police Captain 403 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 5: Dustin Blaker says, that's when they get a direct swab 404 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 5: of his DNA. 405 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 10: Then we had a one positive match to our original 406 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 10: DNA sample off of the knife sheath. 407 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 6: It's kind of hard to explain away your DNA being 408 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 6: on the knife sheath found by one of the victims 409 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 6: who had been stabbed to death with a knife that 410 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 6: would have fit in that sheath. 411 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 5: Prosecutor Ashley Jennings says, it all came down to forensic 412 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 5: genetic geology. 413 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 9: Do I think we would have eventually gotten to Brian 414 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 9: coworger Yes, I do, but it absolutely would not have 415 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 9: occurred so quickly, And I can't even begin to estimate 416 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 9: how long it would have taken investigators to get to 417 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 9: his name. But for the work of the genetic genealogist. 418 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 6: We now had him in custody. We now had an 419 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 6: active criminal case. And that's where things start to pick 420 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 6: up substantially for our office handling the court aspects of 421 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 6: the prosecution. 422 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 5: Detectives and prosecutors are pulling all of the other evidence together. 423 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 5: They search his apartment and his parents home, and in 424 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 5: the process we learn a lot more about who Brian 425 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 5: Coberger is. 426 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 4: I have so many questions I know so. 427 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 5: He grew up in Pennsylvania. Both his parents worked for 428 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 5: the local school district. His mom was a teacher's aide 429 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 5: and his dad was a maintenance worker. He has two sisters. 430 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 5: He was bullied a bit growing up, and he posted 431 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 5: to various online sites about feeling depressed and having some 432 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 5: suicidal tendencies. When he was sixteen, he posted, I feel 433 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 5: like an organic sack of meat with no self worth. 434 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 5: As I hug my family, I look into their faces, 435 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 5: I see nothing. It's like I'm looking at a video game. 436 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 2: But less. 437 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 5: He says he basically saw his life as a video 438 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 5: game where he could do whatever he wanted. With little remorse. 439 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 5: Coburger also apparently started to suffer from visual snow around 440 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 5: this time, where he complained his vision was fuzzy and 441 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 5: friends of his said it really bothered him. He graduated 442 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 5: high schoo in twenty thirteen, and around this time he 443 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 5: starts using heroin. Later on, he gets clean and he 444 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 5: studies criminology in college. He tells a friend he wants 445 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 5: to find a job either catching violent criminals or maybe 446 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 5: counseling them. 447 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 4: Wow, that's just so ironic considering what's to come. 448 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 5: While he's getting his master's degree, he actually studies under 449 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 5: an expert on serial killers. She's written books called The 450 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 5: Mind of a Murderer and How to Catch a Killer. 451 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 5: As part of his master's degree, he designs a survey 452 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 5: where he asks X cons about their crimes. 453 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 4: It's like he's researching how to commit a crime. 454 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 455 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 5: He asks detailed questions like before making your move, how 456 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 5: did you approach the victim or target? After committing the crime, 457 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 5: what were you thinking and feeling? Why did you do 458 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 5: you choose that victim or target over others? 459 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 4: Oh my god, that is so terrifying. 460 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 5: I mean it's hard not to feel like he's methodically researching. 461 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 4: This, I mean presumably spending all of his time studying criminology, 462 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 4: understanding it, going into graduate school for it. Then got 463 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 4: to this kind of impressive place of studying and researching 464 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 4: with this famous expert on serial killers, like he clearly 465 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 4: is working so hard to get close to this topic. 466 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 4: You're right, there is this calculated potentially for years and 467 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 4: years trying to get closer to this and being drawn 468 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 4: to this as a thing in his life. 469 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 5: We also learned that the same day that authorities first 470 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 5: learn Brian Coberger's name, he's fired from his position as 471 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 5: a teaching assistant at Washington State University. 472 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 4: Oh what happened? 473 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 5: Well, there are a number of complaints against him. In 474 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 5: the weeks surrounding the murders, he gets into some kind 475 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 5: of disagreement with a professor twice. He's also known for 476 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 5: getting into heated arguments in class, especially with female students. 477 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 5: Several women complained that he was making them feel uncomfortable. 478 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 5: One woman actually says Brian Coberger followed her to her car. 479 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,479 Speaker 5: Now Allen in the murder investigation, there was also some 480 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 5: concern that Kaylee had a stalker. In one of Dylan's interviews, 481 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 5: with police. She mentions that Kaylee had been at a 482 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 5: grocery store and noticed some guy following her in the store, 483 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 5: and then when she goes out to her car, that 484 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,959 Speaker 5: same guy is standing next to her car. 485 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 2: Kayleie also said she thought she. 486 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 5: Was being watched when she took her dog outside at 487 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 5: night to pee. Now police looked into it and basically 488 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 5: they couldn't prove that she had a stalker. 489 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's eerie to know that Coburger was making 490 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 4: female students feel uncomfortable and following at least one of them. 491 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 4: It does make me wonder if he was doing that 492 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 4: to Kaylee too well. 493 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 5: And remember, early on police said they believed it was 494 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 5: a targeted attack, even though they didn't know who did 495 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 5: it or why. And I asked Prosecutor Bill Thompson what 496 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 5: he thought. 497 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 6: I don't want to speak for the police department itself 498 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 6: on that. I know that Ashley and I looking at 499 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 6: the scene, looking at the nature of the attacks and 500 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 6: the injuries, looking also at the activities of everybody and 501 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 6: what we believe likely happened at the house. We thought 502 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 6: it most likely that the murderer entered the house intending 503 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 6: to attack at least one of the residents of the house, 504 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 6: as opposed to a random and grab somebody off the street. 505 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 6: This was targeted on this particular residence. 506 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 4: And what makes him feel that way. 507 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 5: Well, they're pretty sure that Coburger entered through that sliding 508 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 5: glass door on the second floor, you know, the one 509 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 5: off the kitchen. Now, there are two bedrooms on that floor, 510 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 5: Dylan's and Xana's, but he doesn't go to either of 511 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 5: those rooms. Instead, he enters and goes upstairs to the 512 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 5: third floor, where Kaylee and Mattie's bedrooms are. 513 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 6: The nature of the injury suggested that Maddy was likely 514 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 6: attacked first and Kaylee was attacked immediately afterwards. 515 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 5: Now we know Xana got food delivered from Jack in 516 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,239 Speaker 5: the Box, and based on crime scene photos, we can 517 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 5: see that she eats some of it French fries, and 518 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 5: then she leaves it in the kitchen. So maybe she 519 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 5: hears some commotion on the third floor and goes to investigate, 520 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 5: because remember Dylan says she hears someone say someone's here, 521 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 5: and then she hears someone run down the stairs. 522 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 4: So maybe she was hearing Xana. So Xana hears noises, 523 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 4: leaves her food behind on the second floor to investigate. 524 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 4: She's the one who says, so one's here, and then 525 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 4: Xanna runs back downstairs again. 526 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, and maybe Brian Coberger leaves Maddie's bedroom on the 527 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 5: third floor and confronts Xanna on the second floor. 528 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 6: And we believe that that led to him pursuing Xana 529 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 6: to her room and killing her in Heathen. 530 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 5: She had defensive wounds, so she was awake and encountered him, 531 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 5: maybe in a hallway. 532 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 6: Yes, we think that that is likely what happened. And 533 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 6: she did, she had defenses wounds. She did fight. 534 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 5: Back, and that's when Dylan opens her door and looks right. 535 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 2: At the suspect. 536 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 4: And now he's murdered four people. Maybe that's more than 537 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 4: he'd intended. And he's also been in the house for 538 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 4: sixteen minutes. Maybe he panics, Maybe he just realizes he 539 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 4: needs to get out of there. 540 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 5: Coburger is charged with four counts of murder and one 541 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 5: count of burglary. At his arraynment, he just stands there, silent. 542 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 5: He won't say anything, So the court enters a plea 543 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 5: of not guilty on his behalf, and prosecutors Bill Thompson 544 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 5: and Ashley Jennings prepare for a trial Brian Coberger's defense 545 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 5: team fights everything the evidence the DNA, literally everything. 546 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 6: They tried to assert that there was a legally protected 547 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 6: interest in the DNA that was abandoned on the sheath. 548 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 6: That's contrary to what the law says. They questioned the 549 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,760 Speaker 6: process of using the investigative genetic genealogy. We were confident 550 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 6: from the beginning that the genetic genealogy was solid, and 551 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 6: the courts agreed with us. But that was a major battle. 552 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 5: The judge rules that the DNA evidence can be admitted 553 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 5: in court, and then Coberger's team tries kind of a 554 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 5: hail Mary. 555 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 6: They wanted to point the finger at other people as 556 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,280 Speaker 6: being responsible for this, to try to point the finger 557 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 6: at innocent third parties and try to argue that one 558 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 6: of these other people might have somehow been responsible for 559 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 6: the murders. 560 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 5: There's also the gag order, remember Allen. The judge bars 561 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 5: everyone involved in the case from speaking publicly about it, 562 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 5: and that just created NonStop conspiracy theories and speculation, and 563 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 5: Kristin Middelman says it was incredibly frustrating and damaging to 564 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 5: the truth. 565 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 11: The people that made themselves experts in this case were 566 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 11: people that had not worked the case that may know 567 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 11: a little bit of this type of DNA testing, And 568 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,919 Speaker 11: they went on every news show they could get on, 569 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 11: on every talk show, they could get on every podcast 570 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 11: out there, and talked and talked in detail about how 571 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 11: this case was solved. They were completely wrong. 572 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 4: And it skews the public's understanding of what actually happened. 573 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 5: And so a few days later, the defense team reaches 574 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 5: out to the prosecutors. 575 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 6: We were contacted by the defense with a question as 576 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,919 Speaker 6: to whether we wanted to make a plea offer, and 577 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 6: we listened to what they had to say, and our 578 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 6: meat response is, well, what is the defendant willing to do? 579 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 5: Prosecutors call a meeting with the victims' families, and Stacy Chapin, 580 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 5: Ethan's mom, says it was actually just a routine check in. 581 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 1: You never think that you're a family that's going to 582 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: be in this position. But every book I've ever read, 583 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 1: or murder show you've ever watched, it talks about the 584 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: death penalty versus a plea deal. I mean, I don't 585 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: know if you've never done it. I don't think you 586 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: have a preconceived notion about how it's really going to 587 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 1: go down. You're just like, my god, how are we 588 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 1: going to do this? My biggest worry was prepping Mazie 589 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: and Hunter to potentially have to testify, and I am 590 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: thinking to myself, I do not know how I'm going 591 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: to get that girl on a stand. 592 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 5: Ethan's siblings, Hunter and Mazie. I mean, they've been through 593 00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 5: utter hell and their grief is still so raw. Said 594 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 5: they testify if it was absolutely necessary, but they're just shattered. 595 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: I mean, good luck everybody, because I mean that was 596 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: what I was most concerned about. So no, thank you. 597 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, we're all for life without Pearl. 598 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 2: But not everyone felt the same way. 599 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 6: Not surprisingly, there was a split of opinion among the 600 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 6: various families and family members, with some folks saying we 601 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 6: want this over with, we want closure, we want him 602 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 6: to be gone forever. We don't want to have decades 603 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 6: of appeals, and others saying no, we think that you 604 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 6: need to continue to pursue the death penalty, even if 605 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 6: it takes decades. So we the attorney team, took all 606 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 6: that input and sat down among ourselves and weighed the 607 00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 6: pros and cons of various options, and we decided that 608 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 6: we would tell the defense that if the defendant wished 609 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 6: to avoid trial. There was only one option that was 610 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 6: for him to plead guilty as charged to all five 611 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 6: counts and to waive appeals so that the case would 612 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 6: be final, and we let them know that we were 613 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 6: going to be looking for fixed life sentences to run consecutively. 614 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,919 Speaker 5: Brian Koberger agreed to those conditions, and just a few 615 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 5: months ago, in July of twenty twenty five, he changed 616 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 5: his plea to guilty. At the sentencing, family members and 617 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 5: friends of the victim spoke to a packed courthouse. It 618 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 5: was streamed live online and I watched it as it 619 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 5: was happening, and Allen, it was surreal. I mean, this 620 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 5: might kind of sound strange, but after spending so much 621 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 5: time researching this case, to see these family members stand 622 00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 5: there just deep in their grief and have to relay 623 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 5: the worst moments of their lives and do it in 624 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 5: front of Brian Coburger, it was just sobering and there 625 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,319 Speaker 5: was a range of emotions. I want to play you 626 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 5: some of what people had to say that day. This 627 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 5: is Dylan talking one of the surviving roommates. She was 628 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,320 Speaker 5: so overcome that she asked to sit in a chair 629 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 5: at the prosecutor's table. Ashley Jenning stood up and gave 630 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 5: her seat to Dylan, and as Dylan spoke, Bill Thompson, 631 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 5: the other prosecutor, he actually turns his back to block 632 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 5: Dylan's view of Coburger. Here's Dylan, what happened that night 633 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 5: changed everything. I made escape plans everywhere I went. If 634 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 5: something happens, how do I get out? What can I 635 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 5: use to defend myself? I can't think. 636 00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 12: I can't stop shaking. You say I'm a survivor, but 637 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 12: I don't see what my new reality looks like. They 638 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 12: don't see the panic attacks, the hypervigilance, the exhaustion, the 639 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 12: way I scan every room I enter, the way I flinch, 640 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 12: it sudden sounds. They don't know how heavy it is 641 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 12: to carry so much pain and still be expected to 642 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 12: keep going. And that's because of him. 643 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 5: One after another, mother's sisters, fathers, and uncles stood up 644 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,760 Speaker 5: to speak. Some looked right at Coburger. Others never even 645 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,320 Speaker 5: glanced at him. One family member actually turned his back 646 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 5: and spoke only to the family and friends gathered in 647 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 5: the courthouse. This is Mattie's stepfather, Scott Laramie. He talked 648 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 5: about Mattie's love of music and going to festivals with her. 649 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 13: As for the defendant, we will not waste the words 650 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 13: we fall into hatred and bitterness. Evil has many faces, 651 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,240 Speaker 13: and we now know this, but evil does not deserve 652 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 13: our time and attention. We are done being victims. We 653 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 13: are taking back our lives. We will turn our time, talents, 654 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:31,800 Speaker 13: and attention to hope, healing and helping others and to 655 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 13: the future. We invite all those who have suffered with 656 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 13: us on this to join us in our journey. We 657 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 13: can make this world a better place. We can move 658 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 13: on from tragedy. Adversity will visit us, evil will visit us, 659 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:52,280 Speaker 13: but we will overcome. 660 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,439 Speaker 5: Xana's aunt, Kim Carnoodles spoke about her. 661 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:03,800 Speaker 14: She was that fun I mean, high spirited, beautiful person 662 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 14: and I no longer get to get my nails done 663 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 14: with her, have lunch with her. Sorry, But how I 664 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 14: look at it now is this tragedy has brought us closer. 665 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 14: We're united now and we're stronger than ever. We have 666 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 14: family and friends now that we never knew we had. 667 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 14: And you know this is probably going to bother everybody, 668 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 14: but Brin, I'm here today to tell you I have 669 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 14: forgiven you because I no longer could live with that 670 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,799 Speaker 14: hate in my heart and for me to become a 671 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 14: better person, I have forgiven you. And anytime you want 672 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 14: to talk and tell me what happened yet my number. 673 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 14: I'm here judgment because I do have questions that I 674 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:08,319 Speaker 14: want you to answer, and I'm here. I'll be that 675 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 14: one that'll listen to you. 676 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 5: Kaylee's sister Olivia looked directly at coburger. 677 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,800 Speaker 15: You wanted so badly to be different, to be special, 678 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 15: to be better, to be deep, to be mysterious. Lurking 679 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 15: in the shadows made you feel powerful because no one 680 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,839 Speaker 15: ever paid you any attention. In the light, I will 681 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 15: call you what you are, sociopath, psychopath, murderer. 682 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 5: Ethan Chapin's family decided not to attend. This is his 683 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 5: mom Stacy. 684 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: We genuinely had nothing to say. I mean, what is 685 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: there to say? But that was ours and everybody heals differently. 686 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:53,400 Speaker 1: There is no judgment on how anybody handled that situation, 687 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: but for us, there's an amazing Hunter didn't want to go. 688 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 1: We had a family meeting about it and they we 689 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 1: were just like, we're done, it's done. It's over this 690 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: The sentence was written into the plea and there was nothing. 691 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,240 Speaker 6: To say it was over. 692 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 4: This is just such a good example of how people 693 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 4: respond to or heal from trauma so differently. Everybody's got 694 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,320 Speaker 4: to find their own way of comprehending and processing what happened, 695 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,800 Speaker 4: and they're allowed to. I don't think they should be 696 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:26,640 Speaker 4: judged for that. 697 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 5: The Chapin family did do something on their own, though. 698 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:36,279 Speaker 5: One by one they each got a tattoo to remember Ethan, and. 699 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: Maisie was the first one, which surprised me. She just 700 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: came home one day and she was a little e 701 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 1: with wings. 702 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:42,760 Speaker 4: It's very cute. 703 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 6: I called him eat dog. 704 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 3: So I had that tattooed on my form, which was 705 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,440 Speaker 3: a shock. I was never a tattoo guy, but I 706 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 3: just I got up one morning and I was driving 707 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 3: in into town and I could go right to work 708 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 3: or left to find someone that would do this for me, 709 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,040 Speaker 3: and I went, I went left, and I came back 710 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:06,440 Speaker 3: with it on. 711 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:08,759 Speaker 1: Then I had to have one, so I went the 712 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 1: next day. But mine is actually from a note that 713 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: Ethan wrote me in his handwriting. 714 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 9: You know. 715 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,040 Speaker 1: It was in some cute little card says I love 716 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 1: you mom. 717 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 5: And Hunter got a c for the whole Chapin family. 718 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 5: Jim says that each have their own private ritual for 719 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 5: connecting with Ethan. 720 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 3: I talked to Ethan every morning it's usually on my 721 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 3: way to work, and listened to his favorite country listen 722 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,760 Speaker 3: to his favorite country song. He was a big Morgan 723 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 3: Wallen fan. Ye, and I know the songs when he 724 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,560 Speaker 3: was around that he listened to. And I just play 725 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:48,040 Speaker 3: that and talk to him on my way to work 726 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:50,400 Speaker 3: every morning. 727 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,759 Speaker 4: That's beautiful. There's something that feels so important about remembering 728 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 4: someone across time through routine or just a moment here there, 729 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,840 Speaker 4: and that connection through music that's so special. 730 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 5: Brian Koberger is currently serving four consecutive life sentences without 731 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,880 Speaker 5: the possibility of parole. There is relief that the murderer 732 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 5: was caught quickly after a six and a half week 733 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 5: manhunt and before he could hurt anyone else. But now 734 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,800 Speaker 5: these families have to pick up the pieces and figure 735 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 5: out what life looks like without Ethan, Xanna, Maddie and Kaylee. 736 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, picking up those pieces has got to feel impossible, 737 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,760 Speaker 4: learning to live in what probably feels like a totally 738 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 4: new way, and I bet it hits them again and 739 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 4: again at unexpected times. But it really seems like with 740 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,720 Speaker 4: these four young people who were so full of energy 741 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:07,640 Speaker 4: and life, I mean, moving forward won't really be without them. 742 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,200 Speaker 4: It's clear that in these families and friends, their memories 743 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:22,640 Speaker 4: are still so vivid and so alive. Next time on 744 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,320 Speaker 4: America's Crime Lab. 745 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,880 Speaker 16: Dispatch received a nine one one call from a neighbor. 746 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 16: When they answered the door, they found her in nothing 747 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,960 Speaker 16: but a blood soaked T shirt. 748 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,120 Speaker 8: You know what, it looks like. There's another case in 749 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:40,600 Speaker 8: another state that also has unknown DNA that is the same. 750 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,480 Speaker 16: You know, then, I'm really excited now we have a 751 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 16: potential suspect. 752 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:51,200 Speaker 4: America's Crime Lab is produced by Rococo Punch for Kaleidoscope. 753 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,040 Speaker 4: Erica Lance is our story editor and sound design is 754 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,480 Speaker 4: by David Woji. Our producing team is Catherine Fedalosa, Emily 755 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:04,239 Speaker 4: Foreman and Jessica albert Our. Executive producers are Kate Osborne, 756 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,800 Speaker 4: Mangesh Hadigadour and David and Kristin Middelman And from iHeart 757 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:13,400 Speaker 4: Katrina Norville and Ali Perry. Special thanks to Connell Byrne, 758 00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:19,040 Speaker 4: Will Pearson, Kerrie Lieberman, Nikki Etour, Nathan Etowski, John Burbank 759 00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:23,080 Speaker 4: and the entire team at OUTHRM. I'm Alan lance Lessor. 760 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:24,440 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.