Speaker 1: Smell off now, lady, Welcome to Meet Eater Trivia mea podcast.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Meet Eater Radio Live. It's eleven am Mountain
Speaker 2: Time on Thursday January thirtieth. That's not right. It is Thursday,
Speaker 2: February sixth Who were Thursday January thirtieth. Steve will still
Speaker 2: be in Old Mexico.
Speaker 1: And you're not reading a script. No, this is not script.
Speaker 2: It's good because Steve refused to read that portion in
Speaker 2: last week's episode, so just covering up his tracks. As
Speaker 2: I said, we are live. If you can't tell by
Speaker 2: that live error. I'm your host, Randall Williams, and I'm
Speaker 2: joined today by Seth Morris and Jannis to tell us.
Speaker 2: And we also have the pleasure of having Ryan Callahan
Speaker 2: join us for a little bit in today's episode. We've
Speaker 2: got a great show for you today. We're going to
Speaker 2: go all in on our recent Mexico cous deer trip.
Speaker 2: We've got a little show and tell planned with our
Speaker 2: bucks or whatever Giannis brought to share. We're going to
Speaker 2: talk to Phil Kramer, a guide with more than seventeen
Speaker 2: years of experience hunting cou's deer in Mexico. We're going
Speaker 2: to chat with friend of the program and Meat Eater
Speaker 2: contributor Jim Heffelfinger, who literally wrote the book on deer
Speaker 2: of the Southwest. And we're going to play a delightful
Speaker 2: little game called two Truths and a Lie. But before
Speaker 2: we get started, if anyone out there in the audience
Speaker 2: has questions for Jim or Phil, we have two experts
Speaker 2: that'll be joining us today, so you can get any
Speaker 2: of the questions you want answered about KU's deer cous
Speaker 2: deer hunting. Uh, just add him into the chat and
Speaker 2: we'll try to get those guys to answer them. And Yeah,
Speaker 2: looking forward to talking with those gentlemen who we just saw,
Speaker 2: you know, less than a week ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were eating Sonora and hot dogs with them.
Speaker 2: Oh man, I think I had three.
Speaker 1: In the in total and our total time down there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I had three and one sitting.
Speaker 2: Well we we I think we each started with two
Speaker 2: and then got a third.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess we only went to one dog place.
Speaker 1: We missed it on the way down.
Speaker 2: Cal insisted on tacos on the way down, which was
Speaker 2: not a mistake, but it also wasn't hot dog.
Speaker 3: Oh I got a tripe burrito. Can't find those up
Speaker 3: here in Bozeman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that one guy got tattoos all over his
Speaker 2: face and neck.
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: It was an interesting crowd.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jim hooked us up, I feel like with our
Speaker 1: new favorite Mexican joint in Tucson. Oh place, well you
Speaker 1: never went to Alguero Canelo, but that was kind of
Speaker 1: hard standby. Yeah, and it's good. But we talked to
Speaker 1: a couple of police officers that came into our new favorite.
Speaker 1: What was it called La Cardietta, I don't remember, however,
Speaker 1: you say cart in Spanish is the name of this place,
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: Or something Carreta del ra. There you go, we'll get
Speaker 2: gym on it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I like their dogs better. And then we
Speaker 1: had that tasty little taco that was like two small
Speaker 1: flower tortillas with a poblano chili I believe splayed out
Speaker 1: across both of them, some carnea sada and then melted
Speaker 1: cheese on top of that. Very simple four ingredients, and
Speaker 1: then you'd have to cut the poblano in half and
Speaker 1: you get two little mini tacos. I think I like
Speaker 1: that better than the dog.
Speaker 3: That's the best Sonarian dog I've had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very tasty. Thank you to our friends
Speaker 2: at Carreta del Rora.
Speaker 4: Uh oh, before we get started, some exciting announcements to
Speaker 4: get to uh you can pre order The Mountain Men
Speaker 4: audiobook Mediaters American History The Mountain Men eighteen oh six
Speaker 4: eighteen forty pre order now.
Speaker 2: It is released on Tuesday of this coming week, so Tuesday,
Speaker 2: February eleventh. So if you pre order it now, it
Speaker 2: will just download automatically and show up wherever you get
Speaker 2: your audio books the morning of its release. And yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like eleven twelve bucks. I think it's a great deal.
Speaker 2: You're gonna get your money's worth on content.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about the new new project.
Speaker 2: I'm happy with it. I think it's great. It's uh.
Speaker 2: You know, there's like no shortage of wild Mountain Men stories,
Speaker 2: and we tried to cover as many as we could.
Speaker 3: Would would you mind just promoting the book as if
Speaker 3: you were an old mountain man in the same parlance
Speaker 3: and verbiage.
Speaker 2: Oh man, You know, for all the research that I did,
Speaker 2: I didn't work on a character.
Speaker 3: You've read a good jillion journal entries, though, so you
Speaker 3: can kind of.
Speaker 2: Guess, Hey, come on down and get the old Mountain
Speaker 2: Man audiobook. I'm hungry, I'm tired before the spring, before
Speaker 2: the spring thaw. It'll it'll keep you occupied in your
Speaker 2: winter quarters before we go out and chase Bieber again
Speaker 2: in the spring. Don't you know. That's just my Wisconsin.
Speaker 2: And we also thank you.
Speaker 3: Thank the expert, so I can't argue with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're also going on a little mountain Men tour.
Speaker 2: Steve and I are heading out on the road and
Speaker 2: we will be here in Bozeman at MSU on February eleventh.
Speaker 2: We'll be at the University of Montana in Missoula on
Speaker 2: February twentieth, and we will be at the University of
Speaker 2: Wyoming and Laramie on the twenty sixth of February. That
Speaker 2: is the only evening where there are still seats left.
Speaker 2: The other two are sold out. So if you got
Speaker 2: your seats reserved, we look forward to seeing you and
Speaker 2: talking mountain men and talking history. And if you're in
Speaker 2: the greater Laramie area where you feel like making a
Speaker 2: little road trip, you can still go on the.
Speaker 1: Me's not far from Denver.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, we're actually flying into Denver. Yeah, avoid
Speaker 2: that long drive down.
Speaker 3: So my little sister pick you up. That'd be rightly
Speaker 3: plastic seats in the back of the cop car. It's
Speaker 3: kind of fun.
Speaker 2: Oh, that would be the longest ride I've Yeah, probably
Speaker 2: the longest ride I've ever taken in the back of
Speaker 2: a cop car.
Speaker 3: What I like about it is I was very excited
Speaker 3: to make eye contact with other motorists. You know, during
Speaker 3: Denver traffic doesn't happen. Nobody looks at you. Oh, but
Speaker 3: it's a fun game. Maybe weren't making enough of a scene. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we got like a hundred seats left in Wyoming. I
Speaker 3: think we we have like a space that holds eleven hundred,
Speaker 3: and we got one hundred left. So if you like
Speaker 3: make an old drive and learning about the mountain men,
Speaker 3: come on out and see us.
Speaker 2: Y're honest. I understand you have a announcement you like
Speaker 2: to make.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I just saw that too, and I wasn't quite prepared.
Speaker 1: But it's a bummer to have to give this announcement.
Speaker 1: But it's in regards to the seven hunters that were
Speaker 1: on that flight going to d C last week that
Speaker 1: crashed and they lost their lives. They came they were
Speaker 1: on their way home from foul planes which cal myself,
Speaker 1: you didn't make it to one digit. No, Matt, Max Grant,
Speaker 1: Clay did a trip. Steve was going to missed one.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we did our three media experiences over there,
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, seven of their hunters were on their
Speaker 1: way home and unfortunately lost their lives. So our thoughts
Speaker 1: prayers go out to everybody involved and associated with them.
Speaker 1: But if you'd like to help out the families that
Speaker 1: are very affected by losing these seven men, there's a
Speaker 1: couple of ways you can help out. There's a a
Speaker 1: GoFundMe page that is I think the title is help
Speaker 1: Southern Maryland Families after Flight five three four to two crash.
Speaker 1: They've already raised This is awesome. They've raised two hundred
Speaker 1: and almost one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. Their goal
Speaker 1: was two hundred thousand dollars, so awesome. Thank you for
Speaker 1: everybody's donated so far. If you wish to help them out,
Speaker 1: you can. And there's another way you can help them out.
Speaker 1: There's a all inclusive three day goose hunt at Foul
Speaker 1: Planes that they're putting on. Southern Oak Kennels is involved.
Speaker 1: I believe you get some puppy training along with this.
Speaker 1: They've sold nine hundred and seventy of the tickets. There's
Speaker 1: nine days still remaining to buy tickets. It's like a
Speaker 1: raffle deal, I'm guessing. So if you wish to help
Speaker 1: out these families, there's a couple of great ways to
Speaker 1: do that. And thoughts go out to everybody over there
Speaker 1: at Foul Planes and everybody else affected.
Speaker 2: With that and cal It seems we also have announcements
Speaker 2: from you, Oh, you have some fun events coming.
Speaker 3: I'm coming real quick. If anybody's planning on heading over,
Speaker 3: or if you're not planning on heading over, but you're
Speaker 3: in that big Nashville area during the National Wild Turkey
Speaker 3: Federation get together, we are going to host, in conjunction
Speaker 3: with NWTF Friday Night, a big series of giveaways. It's
Speaker 3: like an after party to the big banquet that they have.
Speaker 3: This one, I think is forty bucks to get in
Speaker 3: the door, raffing off a bunch of really great prize
Speaker 3: packages of first light and guns and all sorts of
Speaker 3: good things. The Isbel Brothers are going to be there
Speaker 3: playing music. Spencer Newhart and Clay Newcomb are gonna put
Speaker 3: together and you know, Johannis and I will help too,
Speaker 3: some live trivia for everybody. We're gonna help MC And
Speaker 3: one of the big draws is if you've never got
Speaker 3: a Gould's Turkey, you can put your name in the
Speaker 3: hat for Gould's Turkey Hunt. Same with Miriam's easterns Rios,
Speaker 3: you know, so it can help you complete your Turkey Slam.
Speaker 3: And all you got to do is show up and
Speaker 3: help another super awesome habitat organization n WTF. So you
Speaker 3: get a membership with that, of course, and we'll be
Speaker 3: there helping, you know, grease the economic wheels of conservation.
Speaker 3: So you don't have to be a member to show up,
Speaker 3: but you should show show up and become a member,
Speaker 3: and you can win a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm going just so dan Isabelle shows me a picture
Speaker 1: of his giant buck and I get to hear the
Speaker 1: story of that giant b get killed in Kansas. So
Speaker 1: if you're there, he might tell you that.
Speaker 2: So if you're not in turkeys, there's also.
Speaker 1: There's that I was supposed to be playing music. I
Speaker 1: want to point out that when we did that episode
Speaker 1: of Luke Coolm's promo Horn Hunting, they were both there
Speaker 1: and uh Reid sang a little bit for me, like
Speaker 1: separately from the group, and I was like, wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: And then when I pressed him on it to do
Speaker 1: it more, he didn't really want to sing more in
Speaker 1: front of the bigger group. I didn't really understand why what.
Speaker 2: Did he sing to you?
Speaker 1: Just I don't know one of his songs that he
Speaker 1: he it was not a love song. I don't believe.
Speaker 1: It was just a country song, but beautiful voice. And
Speaker 1: so I'm really happy to see that he's back in
Speaker 1: the back in the you know, in the saddle, in
Speaker 1: the saddle and the gonna do some sing and play
Speaker 1: some music for us.
Speaker 3: So in your average country songs like three and a
Speaker 3: half four minutes at this point, I think I think
Speaker 3: a lot of them are actually getting shorter than that.
Speaker 3: So if you want to have the buck conversation, you're
Speaker 3: gonna have to be like, yeah, hey man, I heard
Speaker 3: you heard heard about a big buck. And then they're
Speaker 3: gonna play a song and you're gonna have to think
Speaker 3: about the next part of that story for two and
Speaker 3: a half three and a half minutes, but it can
Speaker 3: be done, good.
Speaker 2: Good drop, and then the night after the big party.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you can't make it to Nashville to hang out,
Speaker 1: but you're in the Salt Lake City area, you can
Speaker 1: come hang out at.
Speaker 3: Party for public Lands. Utah BHA is doing the heavy
Speaker 3: lifting on this one. They're kicking butt. They got a
Speaker 3: bunch of brands together, a bunch of folks that are
Speaker 3: gonna show up to the beer Bar Saturday night, Salt
Speaker 3: Lake City. This is in conjunction with MDF. They've been
Speaker 3: in the loop the whole way. Doors are open to
Speaker 3: all nonprofits and it's just a celebration of public lands.
Speaker 3: We're gonna give away a bunch of stuff to help
Speaker 3: keep you in the door, and there's gonna be some
Speaker 3: ways that you can throw some cash at the support
Speaker 3: of public lands. But it's really important to get everybody together,
Speaker 3: show a big, broad coalition of folks that know that
Speaker 3: federally managed lands are public lands and those are the
Speaker 3: ones that are open to everybody to go out and explore.
Speaker 3: Hunt fish, recreate super important to us, and we want
Speaker 3: you to show up Saturday night at the beer Bar.
Speaker 3: You can track down the event through back huntry Hunters
Speaker 3: and anglers and pre register to make sure that you
Speaker 3: have a ticket to get in the door.
Speaker 1: So does it cost anything to get in?
Speaker 3: Doesn't cost anything to get in, But we are going
Speaker 3: to hit maximum capacity on the venue, so you can
Speaker 3: ensure the fact that you can get in by registering early.
Speaker 3: And then we are also going to allow some pre
Speaker 3: registration at the First Light Booth at West Stern Hunt
Speaker 3: Expo as well. Jannis and I and a bunch of
Speaker 3: the First Light crew, you're going to be down there.
Speaker 3: We're coming in a little late, but look for that
Speaker 3: big First Light booth, Phelps Booth, f HF Booth, Dave
Speaker 3: Smith Decoy Booth at the Western Hunt ex Bow. I'll
Speaker 3: get your point in the right direction.
Speaker 1: Yep. Come show me a picture of your big buck.
Speaker 1: Tell me, tell me, bigs, dear buck, make it, make
Speaker 1: it real quick. Sure if you killed the couz, I'd
Speaker 1: love to see it.
Speaker 2: Speaking of photos of kous deer buck, Phil bo Yes,
Speaker 2: I think it's time for show and tell.
Speaker 1: Show and tell you say please Manie the show out.
Speaker 3: Mane Shot.
Speaker 1: Oh you're missing out, cal Man show.
Speaker 2: Spencer Prada Rock What else did you expect.
Speaker 5: Do?
Speaker 6: Did you do the light thing before? No, that's new,
Speaker 6: that's really Honice. I'm just trying stuff over here. Some
Speaker 6: some of it will stick, some won't.
Speaker 2: But you know, I think we I think we keep
Speaker 2: the pulsing light show.
Speaker 1: Great sounds. That was nice, nice touch.
Speaker 2: Well, we've got some photos. As we've mentioned, we just
Speaker 2: got back from Mexico last week. We've got some photos
Speaker 2: to share with the gang.
Speaker 1: That's pre haircut.
Speaker 2: The pre haircut brought in the sides a little bit.
Speaker 2: Actually this photo was inspiration for the haircut based on
Speaker 2: the comments I received. That's the buck I shot on
Speaker 2: day day four. Maybe you've been down there day four,
Speaker 2: day five, something like that.
Speaker 6: We they kind of all run together, tell me about it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, this we got like Jannis and I were
Speaker 2: actually trying to get me to shoot another buck earlier
Speaker 2: that morning, and he dove over a ridge and then
Speaker 2: this buck was chasing a dough on the same hillside
Speaker 2: a little ways down. So we rallied up and met
Speaker 2: up with Seth and Cad who's one of the guides
Speaker 2: down there, and uh, this buck and a smaller buck
Speaker 2: we're chasing a dough, just kind of going crazy all
Speaker 2: over the hillside and they went down into a bottom
Speaker 2: and then popped up to something yeah two fifty, and
Speaker 2: he paused for just a second, maybe to catch his
Speaker 2: breath or collect his thoughts, because he was having a
Speaker 2: rather active morning. And I shot him, and.
Speaker 3: You put an end to all that I did.
Speaker 2: I did, but that was great. I was super excited
Speaker 2: to just be able to go down there on like
Speaker 2: forty eight hours notice. And then I wanted to shoot
Speaker 2: a buck that looked like a coups deer buck, and
Speaker 2: that's the buck I found. And then the other funny
Speaker 2: twist of this was there was a bigger buck on
Speaker 2: that hill, macho grande, and we were trying to get
Speaker 2: Seth to shoot him, but he never popped back up.
Speaker 2: But there was a moment in time when Cad and
Speaker 2: I were retrieving that buck where we heard Yannis say
Speaker 2: on the radio, Seth, why don't you get behind the gun?
Speaker 2: And Kate and I sprint to the nearest little creek
Speaker 2: bottom and hid behind some big rocks until the coast
Speaker 2: was clear. So we even had a little bit of
Speaker 2: adventure after I'd pulled the trigger. Yeah, but yeah, just
Speaker 2: a really nice morning. I was happy to do it
Speaker 2: with all my friends there. I think that was the
Speaker 2: only buck I was present for the shooting of. Well,
Speaker 2: you had.
Speaker 1: Two others that literally slipped out of being your buck.
Speaker 1: Yeah by just seconds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. The maybe the morning before, yeah, the morning
Speaker 2: before we seth and Giannis turned up a buck that
Speaker 2: was just cruising down a hill, and by the time
Speaker 2: I got there and got set up on him, he
Speaker 2: had walked down to the bottom and was coming up
Speaker 2: our side. So I did a little hike around the
Speaker 2: other side, tried to turn him up, but never saw
Speaker 2: him again. And then we made a big hike over
Speaker 2: to the agave patch and there was a buck over there,
Speaker 2: maybe a couple bucks, and they never turned up, but
Speaker 2: I did have a dough almost step on me.
Speaker 1: Oh right, that was exciting.
Speaker 2: I wish we had that on video, but yeah, we
Speaker 2: we were waiting for these deer to step out, and
Speaker 2: I'm laying down behind the gun and Giannis is messing
Speaker 2: with his backpack and something just passes right in front
Speaker 2: of my face, and I thought maybe his seat, like
Speaker 2: his foam seat pad blew away or something blew out
Speaker 2: of his backpack, And then I thought because it's windy,
Speaker 2: and then I thought a foam seat blowing away wouldn't
Speaker 2: spray gravel on my face and gun and I looked
Speaker 2: up and there was a dough. She had literally stepped
Speaker 2: between me and the bush that was maybe six feet away.
Speaker 2: And that's probably the closest I've ever come to having
Speaker 2: a deer step on me.
Speaker 1: It was close.
Speaker 3: But then we did have multiple days of twenty to
Speaker 3: thirty mile an hour sustained winds.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it was brutal.
Speaker 2: And Cal had a couple other close encounters with deer
Speaker 2: just wandering up the up to his glassing point.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I did have a buck and dough
Speaker 3: just kind of leisurely walk within under ten yards, which
Speaker 3: was always fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I thought it was my glass and partner Pete walking
Speaker 3: around and I finally looked and no, it was too deer.
Speaker 1: It was deer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, cute little deer. Lots of stories, lots of fun. Yeah,
Speaker 2: here's a picture of your buck. Col what's you tell
Speaker 2: us about that guy?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 3: So we spotted this guy the first after It was
Speaker 3: like that. Not technically what we would have typically said
Speaker 3: is like the hunt day, obviously you get all the
Speaker 3: hunting in that you can. But we went out, made
Speaker 3: sure our rifles were sighted in and shot a bunch
Speaker 3: of rocks and paper, which is super fun. And then
Speaker 3: we split off to just kind of casually look for
Speaker 3: deer and Seth and I ended up sprinting off of
Speaker 3: one mountain and doing a nice jog. I turned to
Speaker 3: Seth at one point and I said, because he was
Speaker 3: running behind me picking up all the stuff that was
Speaker 3: falling off off of me, which is nice to have
Speaker 3: that back up. And I said, We're just going to
Speaker 3: keep up this pace as long as gravity allows.
Speaker 1: As soon as we hit the uphill, went to a walk.
Speaker 3: We went to a walk. Yeah, but made it up
Speaker 3: onto the same slope that the buck was on just
Speaker 3: in time to see him get kind of set up,
Speaker 3: and he slipped behind a tree and we were ready
Speaker 3: to smoke him as soon as he stepped out of
Speaker 3: the bush that he went behind. And he never stepped
Speaker 3: out from behind the bush.
Speaker 5: So Scou's deer do all the time? Yeah, Yeah, I disappeared.
Speaker 2: They have like this reputation as like being very hard
Speaker 2: to see the gray ghosts, the gray ghost and I
Speaker 2: was surprised as the first time because your hunter, you know,
Speaker 2: like we're spotting a lot of them. I was sort
Speaker 2: of thinking we'd get there and just be grinding and
Speaker 2: out trying to find a deer. We found a lot
Speaker 2: of deer, but man, a lot of the deer that
Speaker 2: were interesting would just step behind something and he'd never
Speaker 2: see them again for the rest of the week.
Speaker 3: I think that was the last light low light situations.
Speaker 3: It's shocking how they can be standing on a relatively
Speaker 3: wide open hillside in the open and just totally be
Speaker 3: invisible to the to the naked eye at distance especially
Speaker 3: so yeah. Anyway, we stayed with this little ball of
Speaker 3: rut activity for the next day and a half and
Speaker 3: could not turn this dude up, but it was still
Speaker 3: just kind of the place to be. And eventually we
Speaker 3: had not seen a deer all morning, and pretty close
Speaker 3: to one o'clock in the afternoon, one dough stepped out,
Speaker 3: and it was right before it was about to hike
Speaker 3: off and go check out another spot. And sat back down,
Speaker 3: stared at the dough, looked all around forever, nothing came out,
Speaker 3: and then finally that dude rolled out, and uh yeah,
Speaker 3: great buck. Nice carries all the mass all the way
Speaker 3: through and nice heavy book.
Speaker 2: One of his sides, the picture doesn't really capture it,
Speaker 2: but one of his sides, the the main beam just
Speaker 2: ends in like a broom handle. Like it flattens out,
Speaker 2: which is kind of neat, and it's yeah, like from
Speaker 2: the top, it just looks like the end of a
Speaker 2: hot dog. It's just there's no point to it. It's
Speaker 2: just round and round and thick.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So that was that was super awesome.
Speaker 3: Uh and that pea shooter. There is the short action
Speaker 3: saw Tooth, which is a new build for sig sour.
Speaker 1: And uh man, sweet shooting gun.
Speaker 2: Very cool.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be honest with everybody, like we're not hiking
Speaker 3: our butts off like we typically do on a hunts.
Speaker 3: You got to get someplace high and see a ton
Speaker 3: of country, kind of get math to work on your
Speaker 3: sides in the in the cow's deer arena, So there's
Speaker 3: a lot of sitting and those guns are incredible shooting platforms,
Speaker 3: and all of us had lots of wind to deal
Speaker 3: with and it's just so nice. Bipod on that saw
Speaker 3: tooth is just a rock solid hure.
Speaker 1: I'm jealous of yours. Mine was shooting good, but yours
Speaker 1: is pretty much punching the same hole at one hundred
Speaker 1: yards is pretty sweet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, not with a ton of bags and stuff, right, Like,
Speaker 3: I feel like you could if you really solidified that position,
Speaker 3: it might be doing just a smidge better.
Speaker 2: Here we have a photo of Seth's buck.
Speaker 1: What is that weird photo?
Speaker 6: Well, Phil, you.
Speaker 2: Click to the artist.
Speaker 1: That's any photo?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, picture boy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So my I don't know how many days into
Speaker 5: the trip it was when I killed mine the.
Speaker 1: Day after my day after years.
Speaker 2: So whatever nonspecific answer I gave for that, just add one.
Speaker 1: And Randall's buck plus one.
Speaker 5: So this so we're pretty sure that you guys saw
Speaker 5: this buck the day before, but got a quick little
Speaker 5: glamp glimpse of it and it disappeared, like who's deer do?
Speaker 5: Next morning, I found myself looking at the same hillside
Speaker 5: and yeah, it just happened to pick this buck up
Speaker 5: on the hillside. He kind of rolled over the ridge
Speaker 5: with a smaller buck, and then he betted down in
Speaker 5: the wide open and I was like, oh, this is perfect,
Speaker 5: Just gonna go down there. I was like eight hundred
Speaker 5: in some yards at this point. I was like, I'm
Speaker 5: just gonna run down there and kill him. Well, I
Speaker 5: go down there and can't find him. He's like, Kay,
Speaker 5: our one guy that we're with, he was watching him
Speaker 5: the whole time while I I was like making a
Speaker 5: move on him, and he's like, hey, he's still still there,
Speaker 5: but where like where I was, you just couldn't see
Speaker 5: him on the hillside. So I kind of moved around
Speaker 5: and ended up like getting on this little knob at
Speaker 5: the base of the hill and just sitting there waiting
Speaker 5: for him to move. And then he did get up
Speaker 5: and move, and then Caid lost him, and we just
Speaker 5: like lost this buck, and I was kind of getting
Speaker 5: ready to just give up and go look for a
Speaker 5: different buck because I thought he like just got out
Speaker 5: of there without a scene, and Cad ended up finding
Speaker 5: him again. And it turns out that I had ended
Speaker 5: up about one hundred and twenty yards from this buck,
Speaker 5: not knowing it. So I actually had to pick all
Speaker 5: my stuff up and like very quietly backtrack and go
Speaker 5: from about one hundred and twenty yards to three hundred
Speaker 5: yards where I ended up shooting him, just so I
Speaker 5: coud get a shot at him because where I was
Speaker 5: sitting I couldn't see him. So yeah, it was kind
Speaker 5: of a bit of a screen amble to get there,
Speaker 5: set up on a tripod, and uh, the Restless History
Speaker 5: shot him at three hundred and ten yards.
Speaker 2: Lovely, lovely. Yeah, we got some some photos here from
Speaker 2: seth Oh.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's Randall putting his boots on in Mooying.
Speaker 1: I Uh.
Speaker 5: The photos I shared here were not much of the hunt,
Speaker 5: just because we were kind of playing with a bunch
Speaker 5: of unreleased SIG products that I had a bunch of
Speaker 5: photos of, so I couldn't really.
Speaker 1: Share those yet.
Speaker 5: By the fireplace, Yeah, it's just just kind of our
Speaker 5: environment down there, what we experienced some some quite a
Speaker 5: few of those authentic Mexican food.
Speaker 6: We've had a few questions about the taste difference between
Speaker 6: cows deer and white tail up here. Is there any
Speaker 6: anything noticeable there.
Speaker 3: I've been eating cows deer NonStop since since we've gotten back,
Speaker 3: and it's fantastic. Just I mean, so you're aware a
Speaker 3: lot of cowboys on the ranch, uh, and they absolutely
Speaker 3: love the this meat.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: It's highly sought after, so we typically do give some
Speaker 3: meat away. We ate a whole ham while we were
Speaker 3: down there, which is great. And then yeah, I took
Speaker 3: the loins tender loins and and parted out the front
Speaker 3: shoulders and took those home and then gave give the
Speaker 3: rest to the to the kaby eros on the place,
Speaker 3: and Uh, it's good, it's really good. I think it's
Speaker 3: very tender. Uh, super awesome.
Speaker 1: There.
Speaker 3: I got a little tub of front leg curry down
Speaker 3: there that is fantastic and eating you know, several little
Speaker 3: backstraped steaks and they're they're awesome, really good, really good.
Speaker 3: Is it distinct from the rest of your North American
Speaker 3: white tails? I think you're gonna have, like like, these
Speaker 3: are non GMO white tails, right, They're not getting anywhere
Speaker 3: near corn, soybeans, et cetera. So I think there's gonna
Speaker 3: be a different flavor to to this deer versus like
Speaker 3: your your Iowa corn patch deer.
Speaker 6: And we have a question for Yannis. Let me see
Speaker 6: if I can find it here. Okay, this is from
Speaker 6: Attack the d Point, he says. So I heard that
Speaker 6: Yanni's eight eleven burritos one day on the Mexico trip.
Speaker 6: Is this true?
Speaker 1: Yes? Am, I even gotten to twelve the next day.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 1: They're small burritos, though, they're not like the one burrito
Speaker 1: you buy for ten dollars for lunch and it fills
Speaker 1: you up. These are depending on bite size, you know,
Speaker 1: three to four bite burritos.
Speaker 2: Would you say I made some made you made?
Speaker 1: You made some greeno of burritos. So did I. So
Speaker 1: that day that I set this record that stands at
Speaker 1: that ranch. I think for breakfast, I had two or
Speaker 1: three big gringo breakfast burritos. Then I had five.
Speaker 2: For lunch, I.
Speaker 1: Think I had eight. Oh, I had my four, plus
Speaker 1: I brought four more from the guy that wasn't eating
Speaker 1: his burritos. But I get you away to you right, yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So what does that bring me up to? That's nine?
Speaker 1: And I think I had two or three at dinner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you had a you had just one.
Speaker 2: You had a dessert burrito too, yeah.
Speaker 1: Straight, yeah, that's how I like my dessert.
Speaker 2: Down there, all the meals, all the meals were the
Speaker 2: exact same except for the protein. Like breakfast and dinner
Speaker 2: and lunch were tortillas, uh, tortillas, free hols, cheese, some
Speaker 2: hot sauce or salsa, and then a big pot of
Speaker 2: either eggs or bo or. I think there's beef one night,
Speaker 2: there's pork one night.
Speaker 3: I mean it was in Sonora. No matter what, there's
Speaker 3: going to be a pot of free holdays at every
Speaker 3: meal and it's the.
Speaker 2: Same pot of free holdays. It just gets added to
Speaker 2: throughout the week. Delicio, very delicio.
Speaker 1: So the refried beans I like to point out too,
Speaker 1: it's more like gravy consistency. Well here, I feel like
Speaker 1: you get refried beans on your plate and it's it's
Speaker 1: a lot drier, there's more consistent, more like a mashed potato. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can eat it with a fork.
Speaker 1: You could down there. Those beans you can't eat with
Speaker 1: a fork. You have to have a spoon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fantastic, Phil. We got a couple of the other
Speaker 2: thing we did on this trip was Jannie, you're testing
Speaker 2: some some materials on some breeches. I didn't get that video,
Speaker 2: but we have some other we have that I couldn't
Speaker 2: find it, But we do have some other videos here
Speaker 2: of some oh yeah, yeah, sure, product testing and promo.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean in the spirit of the Super Bowl
Speaker 6: coming up. You know one thing everyone talks about the commercials. Yeah,
Speaker 6: and First Light actually commissioned you guys to shoot some
Speaker 6: stuff just for I think they're gonna do a big
Speaker 6: ad blitz inspired. Yeah, let's take a look at these here.
Speaker 2: Can you render your.
Speaker 1: Can you rein gear? Do this?
Speaker 2: Can I do this omen storm shelter.
Speaker 1: Huh.
Speaker 6: Yep, that was a good That was a good use
Speaker 6: of money from First Lights. There's a few more we
Speaker 6: didn't get paid.
Speaker 1: I'll give that one like a five. Okay, how about
Speaker 1: this one?
Speaker 2: Need some tough brush busting pants, but you don't want
Speaker 2: to lose all your mobility saw buck pants by First
Speaker 2: Light Yep, okay, we're improving.
Speaker 1: Who directed that one?
Speaker 2: We need a warm hat that will also protect your
Speaker 2: dough when you're moving through brush. Ah whatever hat this is.
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: And then this one is is uh. Shows sort of
Speaker 2: the adaptability of some of the First Light line here
Speaker 2: do you want to look good on the streets but
Speaker 2: still need to be active? First Light throughweight pants. Wow,
Speaker 2: that was a trip back from the old McDonald's there
Speaker 2: first stop once we hit free soil mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a mediator tradition. When you get back to America,
Speaker 1: we like to go to make to the Golden Arches
Speaker 1: to celebrate freedom. The first First Light doesn't know that
Speaker 1: we made those.
Speaker 6: No, No, I'm sure you'll thrilled.
Speaker 1: Now my phone ring watch out for those. When you're
Speaker 1: watching the Super Bowl. You might be able to vote
Speaker 1: on your favorite. Phil like the High Kick, one of
Speaker 1: the best that really shows off you're Oh, I like
Speaker 1: the Urban parkour.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wish we'd gotten the first one when we're
Speaker 2: going to McDonald's and I fell off that wall and
Speaker 2: did a somersault unintentionally.
Speaker 6: We've got We've got a bunch of people saying who
Speaker 6: Randa looks like in those videos. We've got John Wilkes booth.
Speaker 6: That's a good one.
Speaker 2: I've got three words for you there, six semper taranna.
Speaker 7: They're all.
Speaker 6: We've got. You know, Doc from Back to the Future.
Speaker 6: I think we've heard that one before. Dwight, Dwight shrewd.
Speaker 6: I think that's kind of rude.
Speaker 2: M hm vibes, though not appearance, just vibes.
Speaker 6: His hair looks like Bill, Bill Murray and Kingpin.
Speaker 3: We've got but that fella and that fella says I
Speaker 3: got to get those pants.
Speaker 6: So yeah, it works.
Speaker 1: Success.
Speaker 6: You're welcome first light.
Speaker 2: Oh that's good stuff. That's good stuff. Do we have
Speaker 2: anything else to share from our trip or should we
Speaker 2: move on to our guest?
Speaker 1: I will say, you know you've heard the buzz. We've
Speaker 1: all heard the buzz about the sig Zulu six binoculars.
Speaker 1: The image stabilized this trip like hands down made it
Speaker 1: made me a believer of that binocular. It blew the
Speaker 1: first five out of seven days. I'd say, what average
Speaker 1: the wind. The wind blew, not the binocular, twenty twenty
Speaker 1: miles an hour with gusts well into the thirties all
Speaker 1: day long. It wasn't until the last two days where
Speaker 1: we had like a nice sonor in morning where it
Speaker 1: was quiet and just and just clear and you could
Speaker 1: get sun burned. The rest of the days it was
Speaker 1: just honking. And those imag stabilized binoculars mean the difference
Speaker 1: between that and non on a tripod now not just
Speaker 1: hand holding, but on a tripod regular bindo is still
Speaker 1: shaking the you know, the image is shaky. You're trying
Speaker 1: to find a deer that's eighty to one hundred pounds,
Speaker 1: very hard. Image stabilized seth, huge difference.
Speaker 3: We heard coyotes yup in one day and Seth freehand
Speaker 3: with the image stabilized binoculars, like, oh there they are
Speaker 3: and he's like, no, no, no way out in that
Speaker 3: flat and I ranged them at almost sixteen hundred yards.
Speaker 1: Yep, that was what the twelves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty impressive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I ain't A twelve are my favorite?
Speaker 5: These were, I you know, even though it was windy,
Speaker 5: these fifteens, this is why I spotted my buck with
Speaker 5: this exact pair. But these on a tripod, we're just phenomenal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those little thing Yeah yeah.
Speaker 6: All right, I think we've got a guest waiting for us.
Speaker 2: Let's talk some more Mexico. Oh yeah, good, good friend,
Speaker 2: Phil Kramer. Phil, welcome to the show. How are you?
Speaker 8: I'm good, gentlemen, how about yourselves?
Speaker 2: Oh well great, Well, we're a little sad that we're
Speaker 2: not in Mexico hunting anymore, but we're slowly making our
Speaker 2: way back to reality.
Speaker 8: You go through that little depression when you first get home.
Speaker 5: Yes, especially since it's been snowing NonStop since we've gotten home.
Speaker 3: So those little deer i'd be able to see is
Speaker 3: the top of the racks right now in Bo's angelus here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Phil, we just had the pleasure of spending
Speaker 2: a little over a week with you down south of
Speaker 2: the border. But could you tell our audience a little
Speaker 2: bit about who you are and what you do and
Speaker 2: what your experience is.
Speaker 8: Absolutely, but I must say I almost didn't recognize you
Speaker 8: Rojo Grande with a haircut.
Speaker 2: Oh thank you. You're the first person to mention it.
Speaker 2: Everybody else has just sort of brushed it off. I
Speaker 2: was really excited to abue the new do here. But
Speaker 2: thank you, Phil, I appreciate that.
Speaker 8: You bet you bet well. Guys, my name's Phil Kramer.
Speaker 8: I live in Arizona, born and raised here, moved off
Speaker 8: to a couple of different states throughout school and my career.
Speaker 8: I grew up on the back of my dad in
Speaker 8: a backpack run a trap line and that kind of
Speaker 8: instilled a love for the outdoors and I've never been
Speaker 8: able to shake it, and God willing, I'll have it
Speaker 8: till the day I die. So with that being said,
Speaker 8: I've always been in the outdoors. I've always hunted. I've
Speaker 8: always found any excuse I could to get outside, and
Speaker 8: that has kind of led me to Jay Scout Outdoors
Speaker 8: and gold S Turkey Hut. And that was a combination
Speaker 8: of timing with Jay looking to expand the business and
Speaker 8: grow it, as well as me making a full time
Speaker 8: career change. Prior to that, I worked in the drilling industry,
Speaker 8: which fortunately left enough time for me to be in
Speaker 8: the outdoors and chasing my passion when I wasn't on
Speaker 8: a drill rig, so everything kind of worked together, and
Speaker 8: now it's full time. I spend the majority of my
Speaker 8: time down in Mexico looking at ranches, scouting new ranches,
Speaker 8: going to some of our existing ranches, and making sure
Speaker 8: everything's good there. And then as I got to do
Speaker 8: with you gentlemen, I get the guide and that's when
Speaker 8: the real fun happens, is getting to interact with you
Speaker 8: guys and seeing what we can put on the ground
Speaker 8: and battling the winds when it happens.
Speaker 2: Yes, we did our fair share of that over the
Speaker 2: past week or so. I don't know if you guys
Speaker 2: have questions, but this was a first time trip to
Speaker 2: Mexico for me and my first time hunting out of
Speaker 2: the country. I wonder if you have just like a
Speaker 2: few thoughts on for those who have never done this.
Speaker 2: What if people need to know about Mexico and what
Speaker 2: sort of what can they expect, because I think there's
Speaker 2: a for I've talked to a lot of people since
Speaker 2: I got back and said, oh man, that's always been
Speaker 2: a bucket list trip for me, but it's a little
Speaker 2: intimidating to leave the country and go hunting in a
Speaker 2: place where you don't speak the language. So can you
Speaker 2: just share a little bit about that, you bet?
Speaker 8: And I think the first thing to remember is any
Speaker 8: time you leave the country, you know, make sure you
Speaker 8: have your passport, make sure you do your research, make
Speaker 8: sure you're going with a trusted outfitter and or person
Speaker 8: that knows the ins and outs of where you're going.
Speaker 8: A lot of people are intimidated, and there's a lot
Speaker 8: of stuff in the news that makes people think it's
Speaker 8: not safe. However, this is my seventeenth year doing it.
Speaker 8: I think it's jays twenty eighth or twenty ninth year,
Speaker 8: and we're very fortunate that we've never had a bad experience.
Speaker 8: We can say. There's a lot of things to that,
Speaker 8: and the main thing is is we do our research,
Speaker 8: We work with the local people, we make sure that
Speaker 8: all of our PaperWorks in order, we work with licensed
Speaker 8: Mexican outfitters to make sure that everything we're doing is
Speaker 8: above board. We're not traveling to spots that are unsafe,
Speaker 8: and we're doing everything right. So my first and foremost
Speaker 8: advice to anyone looking into doing a trip like this
Speaker 8: is make sure you go with a repudle outfitter, do
Speaker 8: your research, get references. If they can't provide references, then
Speaker 8: it's probably a red flag. But don't be afraid to
Speaker 8: go because, as you guys saw, and most of you
Speaker 8: guys have been down there quite a bit, it's a
Speaker 8: trip of a lifetime. I mean, you get to experience
Speaker 8: true Mexican culture, true authentic food, and best of all,
Speaker 8: when you're out on those hills most of the time,
Speaker 8: your phones don't ring, it you don't have cell service,
Speaker 8: and you get back to the way life should be.
Speaker 2: Amen. How would you compare this year's deer season? You're
Speaker 2: you're back at home in Arizona. How would you compare
Speaker 2: this year's dear season to those you've experienced previously in
Speaker 2: terms of bucks and weather and all that. What are
Speaker 2: your takeaways from your twenty twenty five season.
Speaker 8: As you guys witness first hand, the weather was horrendous.
Speaker 8: Normally you'll get a day or two of winds that
Speaker 8: will gus twenty thirty miles an hour. For whatever reason,
Speaker 8: this year, especially during your trip, the wind did not
Speaker 8: let up. It never blew itself out at night. Every
Speaker 8: morning we're agreeded with just a blast of air right
Speaker 8: in your face, and that made it difficult. As you
Speaker 8: guys mentioned, you're looking for a little animal and anytime
Speaker 8: you have that wind, everything around you's moving, your optics
Speaker 8: are moving, and it makes it difficult. The other thing
Speaker 8: is cous dear or cows dear, depending on how you
Speaker 8: say it is they're small animal and they hate the wind.
Speaker 8: It dolls their senses. It makes it harder for them
Speaker 8: to smell, predators to hear, so they don't move near
Speaker 8: as much. And with the drought that we've been having
Speaker 8: for the last two years and it made it double tough.
Speaker 8: We were very fortunate. We were able to dig out
Speaker 8: some really good bucks and a lot of our hunters
Speaker 8: had experienced great success. And all I can say is
Speaker 8: we're looking forward to some rain and some good moisture
Speaker 8: and God willing the weather cooperating a little bit. But
Speaker 8: one thing about it is, no matter what the weather is,
Speaker 8: we can't do anything about it. Just go down and
Speaker 8: hunt hard. And we're very fortunate that we have good properties,
Speaker 8: good genetics, and we can scratch out some good dear.
Speaker 2: Love it. Yeah, I mean, despite the weather, we were
Speaker 2: out there in the dark in the morning and hunting
Speaker 2: till dark in the evening, which is I think always
Speaker 2: the mark of a great trip.
Speaker 5: That one windy day, I think it was the second
Speaker 5: to last day, or might have been the last day.
Speaker 5: We watched that dough just standing there in the sun
Speaker 5: for an hour and a half and not move. Yeah,
Speaker 5: it's just when it's windy and cold like that, those
Speaker 5: things you can just tell you just look at them
Speaker 5: and they're like I just don't want to do anything.
Speaker 2: And not a lot of body fat on them to
Speaker 2: keep them warm.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Phil, we got a question for you, and I don't
Speaker 2: mean to put you on the spot here, but yes,
Speaker 2: you do. You know you talked about references from clients
Speaker 2: and how important those are to check out. I was
Speaker 2: wondering if you could provide some references for the four
Speaker 2: Mediat crew members who had the pleasure of joining you.
Speaker 2: If you just have a couple of words, you know,
Speaker 2: reviewing your experience, you know, whatever comes to mind. We're
Speaker 2: all here, we're all listening, we're all trying to improve
Speaker 2: as hunters.
Speaker 1: So why does Pete from SIG sour get a free out.
Speaker 1: He's not here to defend himself.
Speaker 2: I mean, we can talk whatever we want about Pete.
Speaker 2: That's right, you got a word or two.
Speaker 1: No, I don't, but I thought, you know if Phil did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Phil, what do you say? I can take any
Speaker 2: order that you'd like to please.
Speaker 8: Well, i'll tell you what, Randal, I'll start with Rojo
Speaker 8: Grande aka wonder Boy. You know there's a lot of
Speaker 8: names we got for you, but it was an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 8: I was greatly surprised you told me first time coups hunter.
Speaker 8: I go, oh boy, he's not gonna see it deer.
Speaker 8: And I tell you what, Randall, you did very good.
Speaker 8: I was very impressed with your glass and ability. Not
Speaker 8: only that. You know, as I well as I do.
Speaker 8: A lot of times we'll spot something and then trying
Speaker 8: to walk someone else in on that same animal, so
Speaker 8: you know you're looking at the same spot can be
Speaker 8: very difficult. But you and I, for whatever reason, seemed
Speaker 8: to click on that we were able to find the deer,
Speaker 8: get each other in the same perspective, and evaluate the deer. So, Randall,
Speaker 8: I gotta give you props man that that was impressive.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that it always seeks a dare two to
Speaker 2: like you get your lingo on the same page. You
Speaker 2: know what somebody calls a knob and what somebody calls
Speaker 2: you know this or that? So yeah, I feel like
Speaker 2: we became simpatico is that in our in our glassing?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: Lingo, you bet? You bet?
Speaker 8: And Seth is just calm, like I had to ask
Speaker 8: him two or three times, Seth, you okay.
Speaker 5: You.
Speaker 8: Never heard anything just in the game, you know, yeah,
Speaker 8: just quiet, like just going with the flow. And I
Speaker 8: was like, oh, that's still here. I never knew he
Speaker 8: was around until it was go time and time to shoot.
Speaker 8: So uh, really enjoyable, aw awesome, awesome, awesome. I didn't
Speaker 8: get to hunt much with col but we talked a
Speaker 8: lot on the radio because normally we were not on
Speaker 8: the same page. We could not figure out where each
Speaker 8: other was looking. I didn't know there were two mountains
Speaker 8: at one time. But as a pleasure, we got to
Speaker 8: spent a lot of time together in camp and I
Speaker 8: learned a lot, very interesting in a wealth of knowledge
Speaker 8: that I never knew existed. There was a lot of fun.
Speaker 8: Uh and then Yannie, I mean, we we hunted together
Speaker 8: just about it day because we're the only stubborn fools
Speaker 8: that doesn't think one hundred and five inch bucks a
Speaker 8: big enough buck. So we got to spend a lot
Speaker 8: of time together, a lot of laughs, a lot of knowledge,
Speaker 8: going back and forth. He constantly proved me wrong on
Speaker 8: things that I thought I knew was a holy grail,
Speaker 8: to the point where videos he's like, Phil, you were wrong.
Speaker 6: Again.
Speaker 1: Well, you know you're talking about how it's so important
Speaker 1: to have the same nomenclature right when you're out there hunting,
Speaker 1: because you are communicating with each other through radios to
Speaker 1: be like, hey, are you looking at this century plant
Speaker 1: or this akat or whatever, and so it's very important
Speaker 1: to know which ones. And we had I had I
Speaker 1: think last year a couple of years ago, through that
Speaker 1: picture of this app figured out which ones were the
Speaker 1: century plants. Well, it turns out it's the ones that
Speaker 1: we also call a gave. It's one of the same.
Speaker 1: It's just that every whatever, seventy five or one hundred years,
Speaker 1: they shoot out that stock and it has the flowers
Speaker 1: and all that. And then Phil was like, yeah, but
Speaker 1: it's all that purple one that has the skinnier leaves.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, okay, that's great. I'm glad I learned that.
Speaker 1: And then the next day I'm walking around, I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: hold on, that one with the fat leaves also has
Speaker 1: a stock coming out of it. So yeah, but again
Speaker 1: it's I'm not trying to prove anybody right or wrong,
Speaker 1: but it's just so that all of us can be
Speaker 1: on the same page next time. And you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you see that sentry plant. Yeah, that's where that buck is.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Word of advice for first time Kuzdiar hunters. If you
Speaker 2: don't know anything about plants, there aren't a whole lot
Speaker 2: of other landmarks out there to like direct people in
Speaker 2: a lot of those hillsides are pretty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta know your sphoring floor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're very uniform. And so it's like below the yucku,
Speaker 2: above the red oak, there's a dead juniper, and then
Speaker 2: there's a dead oak. And it's just like, unless you're
Speaker 2: dialed in on what you're looking at, you're gonna be
Speaker 2: your head's gonna be spinning.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you spend a lot of time down there trying
Speaker 5: to tell people landmarks that like will walk someone into
Speaker 5: a deer, And when everything looks the same, it's tough
Speaker 5: to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, unless you're saying, like there's three there's three yukas.
Speaker 2: Two of them are a little higher. The third ones
Speaker 2: offset a little bit to the right. Below that is
Speaker 2: a red oak, you know, And it's just like you
Speaker 2: got to be able to recognize that stuff and not
Speaker 2: scratch your head because otherwise everybody else can be looking
Speaker 2: at that deer and you're gonna be looking at the
Speaker 2: wrong mountain. Sometimes you end up looking at the wrong
Speaker 2: mountain anyway, right cow.
Speaker 3: And working really hard at it.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that people folks are wondering too, why we
Speaker 1: all went and guided this year with you know, Jay
Speaker 1: Scott's crew and Phil and Kate, And if you are,
Speaker 1: I'll try to explain it quickly. The logistics of going
Speaker 1: to do it, d I y. You have to have
Speaker 1: your own bring down your own truck, own trailer, owned
Speaker 1: side by side. Steve and I have hunted down there
Speaker 1: with outside by sides. It's doable. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've ever done one with that side by side with us, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you've done one. Two. A lot of hiking. You're just
Speaker 1: not covering the amount of ground that you wish you
Speaker 1: could be covering, So there's just much less it's less
Speaker 1: efficient hunting. In years past we've paid people to drive,
Speaker 1: you know, trucks and side by sides from Montana. We've
Speaker 1: had friends come from Colorado and bring side by sides
Speaker 1: to make it easier to cover all those logistics and
Speaker 1: it you know, for those of you that haven't experienced
Speaker 1: the other you won't know. But for me, being the
Speaker 1: guy that's usually worried about all that, it was really
Speaker 1: nice just to land in Arizona, meet up with these guys,
Speaker 1: and boom across the border. You know, next thing you know,
Speaker 1: we're sighting our rifles and then we're hunting, you know,
Speaker 1: And they took care of all that that aside. It
Speaker 1: was awesome for me to go to hang out with
Speaker 1: a couple of real coups deer guides for a week.
Speaker 1: It was a real confidence booster for me to know that, yes,
Speaker 1: they definitely did glass up more deer than I did,
Speaker 1: but not by the ratio that I thought they would.
Speaker 1: So I'm feeling like I'm ready to go coups deer
Speaker 1: hunting again, and I'm confident that I can find a
Speaker 1: couple here.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, it was a great trip, and I think like
Speaker 2: part of it too, is just having someone with the
Speaker 2: amount of experience that Phil does telling you what what
Speaker 2: cous do you like, what they don't like, what you've
Speaker 2: seen him do, I mean, and like predicting what they're
Speaker 2: going to do, which is something that like, even if
Speaker 2: you've been down there a couple of times, you don't
Speaker 2: have that depth of knowledge.
Speaker 8: So well and just sheer eyes on the mountain, you know,
Speaker 8: guys helping your glass because a lot of times you'll
Speaker 8: get up on your glassing point and it's almost overwhelming.
Speaker 8: And when you can share that with other people that
Speaker 8: you know are putting in the work and they're able
Speaker 8: to find animals, it helps a lot. But one thing
Speaker 8: I was going to say on the little review there,
Speaker 8: I will say, honest doesn't quit. I mean on the
Speaker 8: last night till I was like it's dark, we're done
Speaker 8: you Honest was like, I think I got five more
Speaker 8: minutes left. No quit. It was just a great time.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like to hunt, and you know, so I
Speaker 1: like to hunt right until the end.
Speaker 8: Make sure you're on the same page with identification of
Speaker 8: the plant. So we did a little I don't know,
Speaker 8: show and tell basically as you say, when we were
Speaker 8: on there and getting ready to cite the guns in
Speaker 8: it's like Okay, this is juniper. That's a red oat. Yeah,
Speaker 8: that's a central plant. That's a yuka, that's a mesquite,
Speaker 8: that's an ocatillo. So that way, when it came down
Speaker 8: to the nitty gritty, when it was time to find
Speaker 8: some deer, we were all on the same page. And
Speaker 8: I think that went a long way through the week
Speaker 8: we spent together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's great.
Speaker 3: And uh, I gotta say, like, even when your butt
Speaker 3: cheeked a butt cheek on the mountain, you cannot take
Speaker 3: your eyeballs off a deer. So oh yeah, even if
Speaker 3: it's a whisper not over radio to the person next
Speaker 3: to you, like, you have got to walk them in.
Speaker 3: And sometimes the deer that you're seeing it's because it
Speaker 3: is only because they moved, and it takes a long
Speaker 3: time for the person right next to you in the
Speaker 3: exact same spot to stare at that spot and be like, oh, yep,
Speaker 3: that weird shadow line is part of a deer's butt
Speaker 3: cheek laying down underneath and behind whatever. So that communication
Speaker 3: can get really frustrating. So once you lock in, it's
Speaker 3: an incredible benefit.
Speaker 2: Yep. For sure, Phil really appreciate your time and really
Speaker 2: appreciate your hospitality last week. I know I speak for
Speaker 2: all of us when we had a tremendous experience, and
Speaker 2: I hope we can hunt again very soon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but before Phil goes, are there any listener questions
Speaker 1: or questions?
Speaker 3: Also, Phil, I want you to talk about the Google
Speaker 3: hunt that you're donating for NWTF.
Speaker 8: Absolutely absolutely so. As I mentioned, also director of operations
Speaker 8: for Gould's Turkey Hunt, and we run a approximately two
Speaker 8: hundred and fifty UH hunters down through Mexico and Sonora
Speaker 8: and Chihua wherever year after chasing the Gold's turkey. So
Speaker 8: what we did is actually were approached and donated a
Speaker 8: Goulds turkey hunt that you'll get to come down and
Speaker 8: hunt with us either in Sonora or Chihuahua and hopefully
Speaker 8: knocked out Gould's turkey. It off your bucket list and
Speaker 8: go one step further to your Royal Slam or World Slam,
Speaker 8: whichever it might be.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you honest, we did have one question for
Speaker 6: Phil that someone actually someone else in the chat already answered,
Speaker 6: and I'm assuming Danach or someone asked what the Boon
Speaker 6: and Crockett minimum was for Cow's deer, and Lance answered
Speaker 6: one hundred inch for typical, one five for non typical.
Speaker 6: If that's that's accurate, Phil, I don't know if you're
Speaker 6: if you if you know or not?
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure not.
Speaker 8: I believe it's one ten actually for a typical. But honestly,
Speaker 8: there's some deer that we kill that just score doesn't
Speaker 8: do justice. You know, we we try not. We use
Speaker 8: score as a descriptive tool, right because that's what everyone
Speaker 8: wants to get and gives us a good tool to
Speaker 8: actually measure. However, there's some deer that we kill that
Speaker 8: score just doesn't do justice. Even though it might be
Speaker 8: one sixteen, that buck should be one hundred and thirty
Speaker 8: just depending on where the mass measurements lie. And you know,
Speaker 8: the blading just like Col's buck out at the end
Speaker 8: of the beams, I mean broomstick and just didn't get
Speaker 8: credit for it except for the one measurement. So I
Speaker 8: believe it's one ten though for book minimum.
Speaker 2: Fantastic, Well Phil, again, pleasure seeing you, and maybe we'll
Speaker 2: run into each other at the Hunt Expo next week.
Speaker 8: Well, Jan I'll definitely be at the NWTF, so anyone
Speaker 8: out there can look us up. I'm sure I'll run
Speaker 8: into Janni and Cal out there, and I'm not sure
Speaker 8: about the hunt expo, but if we can get out there,
Speaker 8: definitely look forward to running into you guys.
Speaker 3: And your hunt is being auctioned Saturday night or Friday.
Speaker 8: Night, Saturday night at at the Dinner, Yes, sir?
Speaker 1: Cool?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think I think you can bid on
Speaker 3: those online as well. So if you want to go
Speaker 3: on a Killer Gould Turkey hunt and support an awesome
Speaker 3: habitat organization, check check that one out.
Speaker 2: All right, thank you Phil, Thanks Phil, good to se
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Uh Phil, should we take listener feedback now?
Speaker 2: Or should we? Uh?
Speaker 1: Should we? We've done a.
Speaker 6: Couple, I'll fire off a couple and then we'll move
Speaker 6: on to Jim, who's being very very.
Speaker 2: Very patient with us.
Speaker 6: Yes, thank you, Jim Finger.
Speaker 1: Jim's got nothing better to do.
Speaker 6: Devin asked, Hey, Seth, how's it going? Just curious who
Speaker 6: ended up with that sweet Alluma craft boat. You and
Speaker 6: Chester did the Walleye fishing tour in if you if
Speaker 6: you remember.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I still have it. Who ended up with it?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Still use it all summer long. Love that boat. Put
Speaker 5: a lot of fish in that boat. Yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 5: use it again this summer right.
Speaker 6: On Leland is asking Randall, did you come across any
Speaker 6: mountain women in your research.
Speaker 2: That's a good question. So during the air of the
Speaker 2: mountain men question, there weren't a ton of uh, like
Speaker 2: Euro American women who came out with the trapping brigades.
Speaker 2: But interestingly enough, a lot of mountain men married into
Speaker 2: tribes and had relationships with indigenous women, and that was
Speaker 2: like a huge part of mountain men culture. Like a
Speaker 2: very significant percentage of all mountain men marriages were two
Speaker 2: Indigenous women, and I think Bridger was married to three
Speaker 2: different Indigenous women. So in the book, we have a
Speaker 2: chapter about of all the different facets of mountain men
Speaker 2: tribal relations, and in that chapter we do get into
Speaker 2: sort of the unique history of mountain men marrying Native women.
Speaker 2: And we also have a segment of the wife of
Speaker 2: a missionary who attended rendezvous and was horrified at the
Speaker 2: behavior that she witnessed. So, yeah, look forward to that.
Speaker 6: Great a question for Seth, how did you find your
Speaker 6: place in Alaska? Was it a Zillo thing or just
Speaker 6: word of mouth?
Speaker 5: I was up at Steve's place one summer just for
Speaker 5: vacation and it's right next door to his and there
Speaker 5: was a for sale sign on the front porch.
Speaker 2: Good old fashioned way, Yeah, yeah, hippie homebrew.
Speaker 6: This is kind of a general question, but it's dumping
Speaker 6: in Wisconsin. He says, while he's stuck inside, what's the
Speaker 6: best way to get out and start prepping shooting lanes
Speaker 6: during the winter? Anything to do during the spring. I mean,
Speaker 6: he's just asking about prepping shooting lines during every season
Speaker 6: of the year. But you can if there's any think
Speaker 6: you can get a head start on when it's during
Speaker 6: the winter. I don't know if you guys have any.
Speaker 2: General winter land management principles for a Wisconsin landowner. I
Speaker 2: think we have someone who could speak to that.
Speaker 1: Is he asking specifically about shooting lanes.
Speaker 6: I mean this I was directing this at at U
Speaker 6: Janni's just about when Yeah, Randall summed it up, well, what.
Speaker 2: Are you doing? What are you doing with your proble?
Speaker 2: What are you thinking about right now? With your with
Speaker 2: your response?
Speaker 1: Man, what am I not thinking about? But I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess to answer the shooting lane question, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't think it'd be really much different in any
Speaker 1: season other than your leave. You know, coverage might be different.
Speaker 1: So the winter is a great time to do it
Speaker 1: because it's gonna it looks most like what it looks
Speaker 1: like in November now versus you know once that you
Speaker 1: get new leaves coming out. But yeah, just get out
Speaker 1: there with a chainsaw man and go to town.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: But you know, if I could get to with constant
Speaker 1: any time I wanted to, I'd probably be thinking about
Speaker 1: maybe doing some frost seeding if there was anything. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm getting ready to do a big like native grass
Speaker 1: and for restoration, and we'll be applying it through just
Speaker 1: frost seeding, which is basically means that you're going to
Speaker 1: add it when there is some snow on the ground
Speaker 1: and then let the freeze thaw cycle bring those seeds
Speaker 1: into the ground versus trying to plant them. There's that
Speaker 1: you know, herbicide. There's probably not much it's really gonna
Speaker 1: do well because the folier applications won't work because there
Speaker 1: is no foliage and I don't think that the plants
Speaker 1: are really still sedessing, so they're not really going to
Speaker 1: bring in much herb beside. So that's probably out. But
Speaker 1: TSI timber stand improvement, which is basically walking through the
Speaker 1: woods with a chainsaw and knocking down trees that you
Speaker 1: have deemed that aren't you know, worthwhile for the wildlife
Speaker 1: in your area. Uh, that's probably that's like an every
Speaker 1: day of the year thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, this time of year puts a lot of
Speaker 5: buds on the ground for deer to like.
Speaker 6: That's right, if you need to knock down some trees.
Speaker 1: Homework Hebrew, they are.
Speaker 6: All right, let's get Jim have hefflefinger in here. How
Speaker 6: about that?
Speaker 1: Let's do please.
Speaker 2: Jay, guys, thank you for your patience.
Speaker 1: Jim probably has a thought on what you might do
Speaker 1: this time of the year in Wisconsin for to improve.
Speaker 7: Dear, I'm going to be there in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 7: In My suggestion is spotted Calum bloody murrays and find
Speaker 7: it a nice.
Speaker 3: Tab for some deep thinking.
Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, right, for thinking about what you might do
Speaker 7: with your land. Yeah, I have I have your randall.
Speaker 7: If you're interested in Gools turkey restoration Southeastern area, I
Speaker 7: want to go to Jay Scott's podcast and find the
Speaker 7: podcast where I talked about bringing Gools turkeys back to
Speaker 7: the US from restoring the populations.
Speaker 2: Excellent, there you go, Excellent, there you go. Uh, Jim
Speaker 2: as a first time Cou's deer hunter. Uh, speaking for myself,
Speaker 2: you know, this is an animal that you hear a
Speaker 2: lot about and for someone living in the in the
Speaker 2: Northern Rockies, it's kind of this far away exotic creature.
Speaker 2: Can you just tell, uh, tell our listeners a little
Speaker 2: bit about COO's deer. Uh, like the differences between whitetail
Speaker 2: and Cou's deer, and maybe what how KU's deer are
Speaker 2: doing little State of the India.
Speaker 5: Jim, real quick before you do that. Coos or cows.
Speaker 5: We've heard it both ways so far. Now Jim's Jim's
Speaker 5: the main I know.
Speaker 1: I know. That's why I talked.
Speaker 7: I have I have an article I wonder if you
Speaker 7: can link that in the show notes where I talk
Speaker 7: in detail about the subspecies is named after Elliott Cows,
Speaker 7: really naturalist and army surgeon, and that was his name,
Speaker 7: and it was named after him. So it's it's Cow's dere.
Speaker 7: There's no doubt that it's Cow's deer. Elliott in a
Speaker 7: footnote and one of you is a bird guy and
Speaker 7: one of his bird Maggot, one of his bird articles.
Speaker 7: He wrote a footnote and said my name is pronounced
Speaker 7: cow z. I mean he actually tells us himself how
Speaker 7: it was pronounced, so there's no question how I was pronouncing.
Speaker 7: I try not to be at a denunciation nazi, and
Speaker 7: I don't correct anybody, but you know that's how it's pronounced,
Speaker 7: So that's how I pronounce it.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like cows is gaining any traction whatsoever
Speaker 1: in your neck of the woods.
Speaker 7: I would say there's probably an increase in one percent
Speaker 7: in the last decade the people using cows instead of coups.
Speaker 1: Okay somewhere that's it counts as forward movement. Yeah.
Speaker 7: In fact, what I'm surprised at is the residence that
Speaker 7: people dig their heels in and they get angry about
Speaker 7: how you pronounced the deer, and I'm just pointing out
Speaker 7: the correct way. You can say it any way you want.
Speaker 2: Well, Jim, what so if you're explaining to someone what
Speaker 2: the no matter what you call it, what these things are?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 2: What are some of your main takeaways as far as uh,
Speaker 2: differentiating a coups deer cow's deer from your average white tail.
Speaker 7: So there are subspecies of white tail deer, They're not
Speaker 7: some different kind of white tail they're just like there's
Speaker 7: there're about thirty eight subspecies of white tail in North
Speaker 7: and South America. They're just another one. But they are different.
Speaker 7: And we'll look in a minute. Here's a South Texas
Speaker 7: white tail, much bigger, of course, and if we put
Speaker 7: a cow's white tail next to it, you can see
Speaker 7: the difference. Not okay, not really, not really, here's here's
Speaker 7: a So there's a comparison of the skulls of a
Speaker 7: cow's white tail versus the Texas white tail. So think
Speaker 7: about this. This isn't even just a big borealis Minnesota,
Speaker 7: Wisconsin whitetail. This is from South Texas. So just like
Speaker 7: another kind of a Southwestern white tail, but dramatically dramatically
Speaker 7: different in.
Speaker 3: But you found a real nice cows deer skull to
Speaker 3: show off.
Speaker 7: Yes, this is about one hundred and seven. So you
Speaker 7: were talking about minimum score. It is one hundred and ten,
Speaker 7: so that doesn't make it. But that's pretty close to
Speaker 7: minimum Crockett score. And in a couple of years of
Speaker 7: each other. I mean, they're they're not dramatically different in age,
Speaker 7: so it's a valid comparison, especially of skull because they're
Speaker 7: they're adult adult. There phil If you can put that
Speaker 7: map up, let's look at where cows deer are distributed
Speaker 7: in the southwest. Just the map from my book Deer
Speaker 7: to the Southwest, and that red is colored what we
Speaker 7: call cow's whitetail distribution. So you can see that it
Speaker 7: doesn't touch any other kinds of white tails out species
Speaker 7: on the west or the north. There's no white tails
Speaker 7: in northern Arizona, and northern New Mexico doesn't touch any
Speaker 7: white tails on the east because of the Chuahuan Desert.
Speaker 7: It's a big grassland and there's not really white tails
Speaker 7: out there until you get over into the Carbon Mountain
Speaker 7: white tail in West Texas and then the Texas white tail,
Speaker 7: and so there's a physical separation on three sides. Now,
Speaker 7: if you go south into Mexico, the cow's white tail
Speaker 7: just blends into all those other smaller white tails. In
Speaker 7: South Texas. There's a whole bunch of Mexican subspecies of
Speaker 7: white tail. None of them are scientifically valid or scientifically
Speaker 7: supported by real physical differences or genetic differences. When you
Speaker 7: look at the genetics of all those Mexican sub species,
Speaker 7: they just kind of overlap in a kind of a
Speaker 7: scattering and we did early on about fifteen years ago.
Speaker 7: I worked with funding from Bonaicrocket Club, worked with some
Speaker 7: geneticists that I know and I've worked with for a while.
Speaker 7: I collected with some friends a bunch of white tail
Speaker 7: samples from eastern white tail, from cow's whitetail in the
Speaker 7: US and also in Mexico, and we had geneticis apply
Speaker 7: a whole bunch of different genetic markers and fine tune
Speaker 7: a set of markers that really divided animals that are
Speaker 7: known cow's whitetail deer from animals that are known not
Speaker 7: cow's whitetail deer eastern white tail, and those came from
Speaker 7: Canada and from Wisconsin and from all kinds of different
Speaker 7: places that were not cow's white tail deer and phil
Speaker 7: If you put that scatter diagram, you can see what
Speaker 7: we came up with with a test. So those blue
Speaker 7: the blue squares are cow's white tail deer clustering in
Speaker 7: one neat little cluster. The white is a whole diversity
Speaker 7: of different white tailed deer from eastern North America that
Speaker 7: are not cow's whitetail deer. We had one deer. Then
Speaker 7: this is the value of the test. That someone comes
Speaker 7: up with a deer. And in this case, the guy's
Speaker 7: last name was Lay and he had this deer from
Speaker 7: the attic and his grandfather said he shot it in
Speaker 7: southern Arizona. And so he says, if this is really
Speaker 7: a cow's white tailed deer, this is the new world
Speaker 7: record cow's whitetail deer. So that's an example of us
Speaker 7: applying this genetic test. Taking that unknown deer that someone
Speaker 7: says as a cow's white tail deer, running it through
Speaker 7: the genetic markers, you can see it lands right in
Speaker 7: the middle of regular eastern white tails. So the Bundaicrocket
Speaker 7: and the Pope and Young Club are using that genetic
Speaker 7: test we developed a long time ago to keep the
Speaker 7: record book categories clean and separate and make sure nobody's
Speaker 7: got a brand new world record white tail that's really
Speaker 7: not a role record, cow's whitetail that's really not a
Speaker 7: cow's white tail, and sneak one ofs. And so we
Speaker 7: can use genetics now to keep those record categories separately.
Speaker 7: So they do different genetically, mostly because they're physically separate
Speaker 7: from other white tails everywhere except when you go south
Speaker 7: into Mexico.
Speaker 2: Jim I see. We had a question in the comments
Speaker 2: section about obviously CWD is a big concern for your
Speaker 2: average white tailed deer hunter. Are there any known instances
Speaker 2: of KU's deer being affected by CWD and sort of
Speaker 2: what's the prognosis there. Do you think it's a risk
Speaker 2: spreading down into that environment.
Speaker 7: Arizona has not detected CWD, and we've been testing really intensively,
Speaker 7: and we're testing to the on the eastern border of
Speaker 7: Arizona because that borders New Mexico, which has some positive deer.
Speaker 7: We're testing on the north and the northeast because of
Speaker 7: Colorado and Utah having positive deer. We have not detected it.
Speaker 7: It's not really being tested that much in Mexico, but
Speaker 7: there hasn't been There hasn't been any evidence of it
Speaker 7: in Mexico, So the answer and in southern New Mexico,
Speaker 7: I don't. I think it's all mul there that they've
Speaker 7: had some positives in south central New Mexico. So I
Speaker 7: think the answer is no, Cow's whitetail deer has not
Speaker 7: been hasn't been detected, And maybe the geographic separation and
Speaker 7: the lack of people driving back and forth with Cow's
Speaker 7: white deal and trailers might help kind of isolate that
Speaker 7: a little bit.
Speaker 2: M pill any other questions there in the chat we
Speaker 2: can throw a jim Yeah.
Speaker 6: Sure. We had a couple Marty's asking do the coastal
Speaker 6: cows in Mexico show any differences from the rest of
Speaker 6: the population. I don't know what differences he's referring to,
Speaker 6: but if you have any.
Speaker 7: Insight, probably talking well, he must be talking about the
Speaker 7: western border, the western coast of Mexico, by the Gulf
Speaker 7: of Mexico there the Sea Cortes, And no, there's genetically
Speaker 7: cow's whitetail are pretty genetically distinct until you go down
Speaker 7: and we did sample a lot of white tailed in
Speaker 7: Mexico until you get down into Mexico and then it
Speaker 7: just starts getting a blend of genetics. They're not so
Speaker 7: distinct there because they don't have that physical separation. And
Speaker 7: it's unique that in Sonora and Sineloa even you have
Speaker 7: these little white tails that are probably Cal's white tail
Speaker 7: living really in some really low desert country, whereas in Arizona,
Speaker 7: New Mexico that would be mule their habitat. But in Sonora,
Speaker 7: for some reason, we've got white tails really low down
Speaker 7: into the desert all the way out to the Zeo Cortes.
Speaker 7: But they're not different. Those white tails in the state
Speaker 7: of Mixing state of Sonora, which is southwest of Sonora,
Speaker 7: and along the southwest of Sonora in the state of Sineloa,
Speaker 7: those have been designated as a different subspecies. But that's
Speaker 7: one of those deals where there really isn't any physical
Speaker 7: differences or genetic differences that anybody has determined to be
Speaker 7: real differences.
Speaker 2: Gotcha. Other listener questions Phil a couple.
Speaker 6: However, we're getting a few Zach's asking what the typical
Speaker 6: home range radius and elevation is for cal He says
Speaker 6: he's seen them from fifteen hundred feet all the way
Speaker 6: up to five thousand in Arizona.
Speaker 7: Yeah, you certainly can see him in those The probably
Speaker 7: the most of that distribution though, is going to be
Speaker 7: from three thousand feet up to about six about seven
Speaker 7: thousand feet. Once you get seven thousand feet, you start
Speaker 7: getting more into the open ponders of pine forest, which
Speaker 7: isn't as good as that mid elevation with shrubs. And
Speaker 7: a friend of mine did his master's degree a long
Speaker 7: time ago in southeastern Arizona and found that the distribution
Speaker 7: of the shrubs is what really governed the distribution of
Speaker 7: white tails, and that was highest in that four thousand
Speaker 7: and five thousand and six thousand foot elevation range. It
Speaker 7: seems like there was another part of that question. Did
Speaker 7: I miss something besides elevation? Oh?
Speaker 1: Home, homerangeh about radius?
Speaker 7: So we don't talk so much in terms of radius,
Speaker 7: but some of the work we did in southern Arizona
Speaker 7: showed that it's about a square mile. This country so
Speaker 7: rugged from an aerial and white tails being white tails
Speaker 7: a lot of places, about a square mile is what
Speaker 7: they'll spend most of their time in.
Speaker 6: What about during the rut, Jim, do you know how
Speaker 6: far they're traveling?
Speaker 7: I don't know, but because we haven't done a lot
Speaker 7: of like GPS colors attract some of that stuff in Arizona,
Speaker 7: but they definitely will move. They're not staying in their
Speaker 7: square mile at that time. And so when you're out there,
Speaker 7: you're seeing a lot of bucks on the move and
Speaker 7: they're not necessarily in the home rangeury using the rest
Speaker 7: of the year they're out, they're out just looking for
Speaker 7: for doughs that are close to asters.
Speaker 2: Yep, Jim, did you get out and hunt coups yourself.
Speaker 7: This year, I didn't. I hunted meal there. See when
Speaker 7: I when I did my master's degree in South Texas,
Speaker 7: my my research was on trophy white tails in South
Speaker 7: Texas and kyle predation after the rut. With trophy white tails,
Speaker 7: because those bucks are at close to a one to
Speaker 7: one buck to dough ratio old age structure, there's a
Speaker 7: lot of competition for doughs, a lot of fighting, and
Speaker 7: those bucks will lose twenty twenty five percent of their
Speaker 7: body weight during rut in South Texas because of that, Afterwards,
Speaker 7: they're all worn out. They just want to find someplace
Speaker 7: and hang out and recover. And also you've got dense
Speaker 7: kyote populations in South Texas, so we were finding packs
Speaker 7: of coyotes almost acting like wolves ecologically taking down these
Speaker 7: post rut mature bucks, where normally you wouldn't think of
Speaker 7: a coyote taking down a mature buck, but it was
Speaker 7: a unique circumstance, so we knew that was happening. So
Speaker 7: my research focused on could you control kyotes on part
Speaker 7: of the ranch and have so many mature bucks that
Speaker 7: you saved from kyle predation that you would have more
Speaker 7: bucks to hunt, and the answer in the end was no.
Speaker 7: The answer was we saved a few bucks from Kyle predation,
Speaker 7: but in the grand scheme of things, population wise, ranch wise,
Speaker 7: it wasn't worth all the money and effort you put
Speaker 7: into controlling coyotes. You didn't get that much benefit in
Speaker 7: terms of number of bucks that you saved. So that's
Speaker 7: to say those those buck to dough ratios after the
Speaker 7: rut or during the rut in South Texas are different
Speaker 7: than you see in a lot of places in the West.
Speaker 7: Although we were going to talk about the status of
Speaker 7: cow's whitetail and Arizona and it's it's surprisingly well. Our
Speaker 7: harvests and survey data shows a pretty good steady increase
Speaker 7: for the last ten years overall in hunt success, the
Speaker 7: hunt successive hunters we try to manage in Arizona for
Speaker 7: in terms of hunt success, we try to manage between
Speaker 7: fifteen and twenty five percent of the hunters being successful,
Speaker 7: and statewide it was forty six percent hunt success.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 7: Buck to door ratios we try to manage between twenty
Speaker 7: and thirty bucks per hundred dos, so twenty per hundred
Speaker 7: dozs is one to five ratio the thirty bucks per
Speaker 7: hundred dos is about a one to three ratio, and
Speaker 7: our average is twenty five bucks per hundred dough state
Speaker 7: wide last year. That's a one to four buck to
Speaker 7: dough ratio in mostly public land hunting. It's controlled with
Speaker 7: a lottery style draw, so we control the harvest that way,
Speaker 7: but not a bad buck to door ratio for public
Speaker 7: lands in the West. For col's white tailed deer.
Speaker 1: Is that forty six percent success ray? Is that a
Speaker 1: spike from previous years? And if so, what do you
Speaker 1: think that's attributed to.
Speaker 7: It's the end of an increasing trend. And then also
Speaker 7: important point is we have a couple alternative management units
Speaker 7: in Arizona where we manage for more mature buck h structure,
Speaker 7: higher buck to dough ratio, lower hundred densities, and so
Speaker 7: those are much harder to get drawn, but when you
Speaker 7: do get drawn, you've got a better experience and a
Speaker 7: chance to shoot a more mature buck. And that statewide
Speaker 7: total includes a handful of those units that run higher,
Speaker 7: So that's not the average of some of the places
Speaker 7: outside of those alternative funds, and that's at the end
Speaker 7: of kind of an increasing trend, so not really I
Speaker 7: guess it may be a spike, but it's definitely an
Speaker 7: increasing trend of hunt success for the last five to
Speaker 7: ten years.
Speaker 2: Really gotcha? Guys, have any other questions for Jim here? Jim,
Speaker 2: I think we were running over time here. I apologize
Speaker 2: we didn't get you sooner, but before we go, I
Speaker 2: did want to thank you for a few months ago
Speaker 2: you sent me an email about Sonor and hot dogs
Speaker 2: and received a wonderful recommendation, and then we had the
Speaker 2: we had the privilege of joining you for a lunch
Speaker 2: at Carreta del Rojo, Aurora. Still not good on my
Speaker 2: Spanish despite my immersion experience last week, but you you
Speaker 2: not only did you recommend these dogs, you bought me
Speaker 2: one or several, and so I did want to publicly
Speaker 2: just thank you for a wonderful lunch and a tremendous
Speaker 2: experience talking all things deer and hot dogs with you.
Speaker 1: For those that don't know what a Sonoran hot dog is,
Speaker 1: can you describe it?
Speaker 2: How about we let the local expert describe it. Because
Speaker 2: there's so many ingredients, I'm afraid I might leave one out.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, and there's a lot of diversity. Yeah, it
Speaker 7: was I recommended the best place in two to get
Speaker 7: snore and hot dogs, and by happenstance, I live a
Speaker 7: mile away, so I was able to scoop down and
Speaker 7: join you all. But it comes in a larger kind
Speaker 7: of a football shaped bund normally that's cut on the top,
Speaker 7: not a regular hot dog bun. The hot dog is
Speaker 7: usually wrapped in bacon, and then the bacon is fried
Speaker 7: so it's crispy on the hot dog. And then there's
Speaker 7: pinto beans, there's mayonnaise, there's mustard, onions, and then usually
Speaker 7: served with a couple of peppers. I think that's probably
Speaker 7: the basis, but then you can have cherizo and cheese
Speaker 7: and all kinds of things added to that, but pretty delicious.
Speaker 3: I did manage to snap a picture of the schematic
Speaker 3: for Lockeratus. It's jalapeno sauce, mayonnaise, mustard, grilled onion, bacon, tomato,
Speaker 3: hot dog, beans, steam bun. I thought the grilled bun
Speaker 3: was one of the hallmarks of the snore in hot dog,
Speaker 3: but that's not correct. That's an extra.
Speaker 7: Yeah. Steam steam bun is what I consider the more typical.
Speaker 7: It's steamed so it's warm and a little softer.
Speaker 3: That was a huge upgrade in the world of snoring
Speaker 3: hot dogs.
Speaker 1: So thanks Jim, Thank you, Jim, appreciate it. Thanks Jim.
Speaker 2: All right, Phil, we're a little over time here, but
Speaker 2: I wonder.
Speaker 6: Are you guys okay, I mean, yeah, wherever time? I
Speaker 6: don't still have a segment left.
Speaker 2: Corey crossed that one out. I think we're gonna keep
Speaker 2: that one.
Speaker 1: We can rip through it quickly if we haven't fought
Speaker 1: you guys.
Speaker 6: Busy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's mean. I see to have to get some
Speaker 1: lunch in me before whatever is happening at one. Oh, sure,
Speaker 1: this will be fast.
Speaker 2: I think, do you have a jingle? I do have
Speaker 2: a You should have led with that. We wouldn't have
Speaker 2: even questioned skipping the segment.
Speaker 6: Okay, let's hit it. Well, do do you want to
Speaker 6: say the name of the segment first?
Speaker 2: This segment is two truths and a Lie. Fun said
Speaker 2: to truth a lie?
Speaker 1: Do you think can ballunt lie.
Speaker 2: To truth and a lie?
Speaker 1: You know, Calvi must be really having a great time
Speaker 1: because before the show started he said he told you
Speaker 1: he was going to give you five minutes of his time,
Speaker 1: and here we are an hour.
Speaker 2: He's a company so.
Speaker 1: Much so that he didn't even prepare for this.
Speaker 2: He's a company man through.
Speaker 3: Having a great time. But I was also told like,
Speaker 3: these are the things that you're here for, and we didn't.
Speaker 3: We didn't get to them, so I was we never confused.
Speaker 3: Well one of the things was supposed to be two
Speaker 3: three percent a lie.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, great, that's what Corey.
Speaker 2: For this fun new segment, We're going to go around
Speaker 2: the room and each tell two doesn't mean lord, each
Speaker 2: tell two truths and a lie about ourselves Meat Eater Edition,
Speaker 2: while the other two hosts try and figure out which
Speaker 2: one is a lie. And this we we have a twist.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be the other three hosts because Cal is
Speaker 2: still here. Be honest, Would you like to lead us sidon?
Speaker 1: Sure, kim Mine. It's very simple. I didn't have anything
Speaker 1: prepared an hour ago or two hours ago, and Corey
Speaker 1: gave me this idea. Is just to give you guys
Speaker 1: some scores of some animals that I've killed. Figure out
Speaker 1: which one is true, which two are true, and which
Speaker 1: one is a lie. So my biggest white tailed buck
Speaker 1: scores one hundred and thirty seven inches. My biggest bull
Speaker 1: elk scores three hundred seventeen inches. And my biggest mule
Speaker 1: deer buck scores one hundred ninety five inches. Which one
Speaker 1: is a lie?
Speaker 3: The elk, Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on the elk.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say the mule deer.
Speaker 1: These boys are correct. My biggest bull elk is around
Speaker 1: three hundred five inches. I have killed a one hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty seven inch white tail in Nebraska with our
Speaker 1: buddy Brody Henderson. I almost felt bad for a quick
Speaker 1: moment when I shot that buck, but it was one
Speaker 1: of those instances that someone had to do some shooting.
Speaker 1: This shooting and my biggest mule deer buck I actually
Speaker 1: killed with our buddy Callian here and it scores roughly
Speaker 1: one ninety five.
Speaker 3: That was the most excited I've ever seen, honesty. After
Speaker 3: he pulled the trigger.
Speaker 2: Fantastic.
Speaker 3: He was sprinting erratically across the mountain side.
Speaker 1: I like to make sure they're dead cal but it was.
Speaker 3: Without properly knowing where the buck ended up. He was
Speaker 3: that excited. He was like off this side of the
Speaker 3: mountain and over there and just like bird dogging around.
Speaker 3: It was cute as a button. Back back when we
Speaker 3: were all younger.
Speaker 1: He had extra points, you know. It was one of
Speaker 1: those kind of deals where like you look at him
Speaker 1: and you go, Cale's like, what do you think about
Speaker 1: this one? And all I saw was a couple kickers,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2: Cal, do you have two truths and a lie prepared
Speaker 2: for us? Should I move on to Seth? No?
Speaker 3: I can whip one out, all right. I do have
Speaker 3: to say that the other there's a good quote. There's
Speaker 3: like it was a one dough or two does on
Speaker 3: this slope, and it's like, you know, a good mule
Speaker 3: deer hunter would just keep staring at these dos and
Speaker 3: that buck's gonna show up eventually. Did So that was cool. Okay.
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 3: Bagged over time, a black bear, a mountain lion, and uh,
Speaker 3: you know, a white tail.
Speaker 1: So we need to pick one of those animals that
Speaker 1: you haven't bagged.
Speaker 2: YEP.
Speaker 1: I feel like because of our conversation yesterday, I know
Speaker 1: the answer. I'm gonna say, mountain lion.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say lying me too.
Speaker 3: Corey is not even talking. Yeah, I haven't killed them,
Speaker 3: been on quite a few huntsome.
Speaker 1: Are you packing a lion tag this year in your pocket?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I always always buy them.
Speaker 5: Well, Seth, all right, I've killed one book animal, meaning
Speaker 5: it scored enough to hit the record books. I poked
Speaker 5: a cow ouc in the butt with my gun barrel,
Speaker 5: and I killed a turkey in my crocs.
Speaker 2: It's not the turkey and the crocs.
Speaker 1: Hold on the when you poke the cow this I'm
Speaker 1: assuming she was still alive.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, real live, wild out there hunting. Poked a
Speaker 5: cow in the ass.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say number one, even though I don't remember
Speaker 2: what that is.
Speaker 1: You think that he has or has not killed a
Speaker 1: book animal.
Speaker 2: I think he hasn't killed a book animal because he's
Speaker 2: from Pennsylvania. No, because I think the the croc thing
Speaker 2: is true and the poking cow with the gun barrel
Speaker 2: is oddly specific. But he could just be really good
Speaker 2: at this game.
Speaker 1: Uh huh. I agree with you about the turkey, the
Speaker 1: croc turkey in the crocs. Oh body, has he killed
Speaker 1: a book animal? I think I would know about that
Speaker 1: if you did, so. I'm going to go with say
Speaker 1: that Seth has not killed a Boon and crocket book animal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, Pope and young antelope is pretty darned achievable,
Speaker 3: But I don't think he shot an antelope with your
Speaker 3: bill have you. Yeah, we'll go with the book book critter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. Unfortunately, Yeah, you're right. That's pretty cool
Speaker 1: that you've poked a cow in the butt. Yeah.
Speaker 5: This past hunt season, I was doing it was an
Speaker 5: opening day a rifle and had a cow elk come
Speaker 5: running past me and I just gave a little poke
Speaker 5: and the asses went by so it didn't run me over.
Speaker 3: And you were dressed as a cow elk at the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it smelled like one too. Yeah. I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask if you did it in a little bit of
Speaker 1: a motion of self defense, and it sounds like it
Speaker 1: that was the case.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just like it was just did it to
Speaker 5: keep it moving, you know. I thought it was just
Speaker 5: gonna stomp me in the dirt.
Speaker 2: But yeah, well, Randall, I'm doing a little improv because
Speaker 2: I feel like some of my clues. In fact, I
Speaker 2: know that cow knows one of my clues is false,
Speaker 2: that it's.
Speaker 1: True, it's true.
Speaker 2: Something to go with. Uh, shot a deer with my
Speaker 2: pants at my ankles, caught a fish on a jug,
Speaker 2: or shot a deer with a pistol.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with the pistol. That's a lie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I caught a fish with the jug is just
Speaker 3: not very fun.
Speaker 6: So what would be the point that it's from Ohio?
Speaker 1: So well, unless he's trying to fool you, that's the point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there's no money on the line.
Speaker 1: What was the first one?
Speaker 2: Shooting a deer with my pants at my ankles and underwear?
Speaker 1: Well, from our little our time spent together in Mexico,
Speaker 1: I know that Randall is often in that position. So
Speaker 1: that's that's a high probability that you've done that. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go with the pistol.
Speaker 6: Pistol.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with pistol.
Speaker 2: Well, it's catching a fish on a jug, son of
Speaker 2: my gun. Yeah, yeah, shot my first deer with my
Speaker 2: pants around my ankles.
Speaker 1: Okay, and tell us about the deer that you shot
Speaker 1: with a pistol.
Speaker 2: See, I started with that as a lie, but then
Speaker 2: I remembered I had shot a deer with a pistol
Speaker 2: because I left I I shot it and it was
Speaker 2: still alive, and I walked out to go drag it
Speaker 2: back to the truck and it was still alive. So
Speaker 2: I shot with a pistol.
Speaker 1: That doesn't count. Shooting a deer with a pistol.
Speaker 2: All right, two lies and the truth. And I was
Speaker 2: to go with eating iguana, but Cal fed me that iguana.
Speaker 2: So yeah, sorry, gang, I guess I screwed that game up.
Speaker 6: No, it was good. You said my.
Speaker 2: One truth didn't count?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think. Yeah, it's a great line.
Speaker 5: It's a great I should a deer with a pistol
Speaker 5: before too, but it was after hitting it with my
Speaker 5: pickup truck.
Speaker 6: Oh so would that? That probably wouldn't count either.
Speaker 3: For those of you listening, if you have access to
Speaker 3: a bunch of iguana tails and hind quarters super Bowls
Speaker 3: coming up, they make pretty awesome buffalo wings.
Speaker 6: Yes, oh hey, well that was one of the questions
Speaker 6: I was going to ask, asked, what's your favorite super
Speaker 6: Bowl snacks to make with game meat?
Speaker 2: I enjoyed the iguana that same super Bowl. You also
Speaker 2: made a giant chicken wing out of an elkshank. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a buffalo chicken wing out of an elk shank.
Speaker 3: Which is quite tasty, real tasty, classic like red hot. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like a Frank's red hot wing. So I soon vied
Speaker 3: the leg to where it was edible. Didn't have any
Speaker 3: Franks red hot? No yet, No, and then drop the
Speaker 3: whole thing in the deep fat friar, get her all crispy,
Speaker 3: and then you know, tumble it around with some butter
Speaker 3: and some franks. Red hot.
Speaker 1: Sounds good.
Speaker 2: It was real tasty. I'm a classic Nacho's guy. Like
Speaker 2: to get a big, big package of Elk burger, little
Speaker 2: the taco seasoning from the store as cheap as you
Speaker 2: can find it and spread out a big mess of
Speaker 2: tortilla chips, little sour cream, cheese, hot sauce, crap please palpinos.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you do for cheese? Oh?
Speaker 2: Just Western family fiesta blend like it? Why is it
Speaker 2: a large quantity?
Speaker 1: Why is it that the cheapest taco seasoning packets tastes
Speaker 1: the best.
Speaker 2: Food science MSG Yeah, I think it's just a mesogy.
Speaker 1: I'll accept those answers. I'm a rotel dip guy. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, so I do a little you know, nice
Speaker 1: thing about when you buy that giant chunk of alvida
Speaker 1: that gets me three through through through three Super bowls. Wow,
Speaker 1: it doesn't go bad. It's expensive stuff, you know, those
Speaker 1: bricks of food that don't go bad ever. But yeah,
Speaker 1: a little alveda can of rotel and then you know whatever,
Speaker 1: half pound pounds of also taco seasoned ground meat, and yeah, lovely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like to eat enough of that until it gives
Speaker 1: me a little bit of a tummy ache.
Speaker 2: Now are you are you dipping like a free dough
Speaker 2: in there or a standard tortilla chip.
Speaker 5: Or what usually tortilla chips? Lovely if I have them.
Speaker 5: Squirrel hot legs are are always good. And then just
Speaker 5: your typical jalapeno popper with whatever I've done it with, doves, ducks, anything, yeah,
Speaker 5: anything lovely, white tail, backstrap whatever, yep, COO's dear backstrap.
Speaker 2: Phil, what do you got for us here?
Speaker 6: Well, just first, Brian says, he goes gator nuggets, so
Speaker 6: those are pretty good.
Speaker 2: Nuggets of any kind are welcome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, deer and dove poppers what Chase, Chase likes pheasant
Speaker 3: nuggets for Phil's kids last time we had to get together.
Speaker 1: That's right, were a big hit.
Speaker 2: Those are tasty.
Speaker 6: Yeah, let's do one's wrap it up here. This is
Speaker 6: the longest episode of radio so far.
Speaker 2: But I don't know.
Speaker 6: Really quick. Multiple questions about the gaming stream for conservation.
Speaker 6: I've been given pretty much. I've been given a green light.
Speaker 6: It's happening. I'm very excited, but I also don't want
Speaker 6: a half asset, so TBD on the date. I want
Speaker 6: to make sure that we can. Even though I want
Speaker 6: to bullshit and play video games, I also want to
Speaker 6: raise a lot of money. Do you have a bead
Speaker 6: on the game Red Dead Redemption two? Okay, yes you can.
Speaker 6: You can do all kinds of cowboys stuff and hunt
Speaker 6: hunt animals in all kinds of ways. So nice, go
Speaker 6: fishing right.
Speaker 2: Skunk ape customs, Yes, I really want to know what
Speaker 2: he's customing.
Speaker 6: It's with a K, so it could be anything. Anyway,
Speaker 6: let's call it.
Speaker 2: That was great, Let's call it.
Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning.
Speaker 2: Thanks for tuning everybody. This is delightful. We'll see you
Speaker 2: next week. Oh oh, before we wrap up, it is
Speaker 2: Steve's birthday next week, so we're going to have a
Speaker 2: very special birthday celebration for Steve live on Media Radio Live.
Speaker 2: You're not going to want to miss it. Steve's hosting.
Speaker 2: There might be some cake, there might be some singing.
Speaker 2: There might be a gift exchange. Probably not the gifts though.
Speaker 6: Okay on that note, Sorry really quick, I'm stretching out
Speaker 6: this show. At the very top of the show, Randall
Speaker 6: first of all, what do you mind sharing what date
Speaker 6: your birthday is?
Speaker 2: October third?
Speaker 6: Okay, Spencer's an sob because he wished you a happy
Speaker 6: birthday at the beginning of the show and everyone was
Speaker 6: saying happy birthday to you.
Speaker 2: Randall, everybody knows it's October third, everybody does. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: the same day that the first Peanuts cartoon was published,
Speaker 2: and it's one of the you know, landmark days when
Speaker 2: the Berlin walks it came crashing.
Speaker 6: All right, well that'll do it for today's episode.
Speaker 1: Thank you for turning in