1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: I'm editor Candice Keener, joined by fellow editor Katie Lambert. 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: How you today, Candice? I am doing well and I 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: have a surprising statistic for you. Did you know that 6 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: today's Italians consume between sixty six and seventy seven pounds 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: of pasta every year? I think I know where I 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: need to move. Then it sounds like a great idea. 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: And this is easiness into today's podcast topic, which is 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,959 Speaker 1: a little bit different from what we usually do. We're 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: usually based the podcasts very firmly in history, and today's 12 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: you know, no real exception except we're going to be 13 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: dwelling a little bit more on food history. And the 14 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: podcast title is you all have seen is the Marco 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: Polo pasta myths. So before we bust the myth, I 16 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: just wanted to everyone back up to speed on Marco Polo. 17 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: If it's been a while since you heard the Marco 18 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: Polo podcast. So, Marco Polo was born in Italy around 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: twelve fifty four, and in twelve seventy one, when he 20 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: was seventeen years old, he went with his father and 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: uncle on a very extensive trip to the Middle East, 22 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: parts of Central Asia, and China, and he became a 23 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: huge favorite of Kubla Khan's because he proved that he 24 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: was a likable guy. He was good with languages, he 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: was good with people, and Cohn gave him position of 26 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: court career and along with that came a golden passport, 27 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: which meant he could go anywhere in China he wanted, 28 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: and he did. He explored every inch and there was 29 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: eventually some tension that arose between the Mongols and the Chinese, 30 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: and so Marco Polo thought it was a good time 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,559 Speaker 1: to get out of there, and he agreed to deliver 32 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: a princess to CON's great nephew and Persia as his 33 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: ticket out. When he got back to Italy, he was 34 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: embroiled in some military conflicts in Venice was fighting Genoa, 35 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: and he wound up in prison for a year and 36 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: he had this really body well known writer of a 37 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: fellow inmate named resta Cello, and I guess to pass time, 38 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: Marco Polo must have told rest to Tello about his 39 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: adventures in China, and resta Cello agreed to write a 40 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: book based on Marco Polo's life, and it was positive 41 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: as a sort of biography, I guess, but it was 42 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: very exaggerated. And it's known as the Travels of Marco 43 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: Polo and alternately called the Description of the World. And 44 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: in one of the parts of the book he describes macaroni, 45 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: and people immediately assumed that, like paper, money and the 46 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: compass and porcelain, thinks that Marco Polo brought back from China, 47 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: he must have also brought macaroni to Italy, and then 48 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: macaroni and pasta became Italy's hallmark. But that's actually not true, 49 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: but that is a myth and mark Go Polo did 50 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: not bring pasta from China to Italy. The Chinese do 51 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: have the oldest pasta recipe. In two thousand five, archaeologists 52 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: discovered an overturned bowl with a spaghetti like tangle in it, 53 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: which might remind you of a college dorm room with 54 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: rama noodles. And that pasta is about four thousand years old. 55 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: That is by far a very old dish. Yes, and 56 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: we usually think when we think of Asian cultures, we 57 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: think of rice, but actually they made a kind of 58 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: millet pasta and millets not like the wheat pasta you're 59 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: probably thinking of. When you make spaghetti, we usually only 60 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: see millet in bird seed, and though you wouldn't want 61 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: to eat bird seed, millet can actually be pulled and 62 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,839 Speaker 1: processed to make a very delicious fresh pasta. But if 63 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: the Italians didn't get pasta from the Chinese and Marco Polo, 64 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: where did they get it from? That is an excellent question, 65 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: and scholars have long debated who came up with pasta first, 66 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: the Chinese, the Arabs, or the Italians. And Katie, you 67 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: have effectively answered that question. The Chinese thought of it first. 68 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: But you may be interested to know that, even though 69 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: Italian pasta was created independently of Chinese pasta, the Italians 70 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: actually got the idea from the Arabs. And while this 71 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: may sound a little bit unusual the idea of Arabian pasta, 72 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: bear with us for just a moment, because Arab pasta 73 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: was dry pasta, unlike Chinese pasta, which was fresh pasta. 74 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: And Katie, you're much better with the differences between the 75 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: fresh and dry. You're more of a kirk than I awn, 76 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: so maybe you can expand upon this one. The dried 77 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 1: pasta basically the whole point of the Arabs bringing it 78 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: was that it survives well over long distances, because dry 79 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: pasta is what most of us use when we cook. 80 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: You just toss it in a pot of boiling water 81 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: and you're ready to go, whereas fresh pasta doesn't keep 82 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: you cook it within a few days or within a week. 83 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: And you're you were telling me earlier that your father 84 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: actually makes fresh pasta, and it's an arduous process because 85 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: you're you're molding and you're needing, and you're shaping, and 86 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: you're using an extrusion device like a die to actually 87 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: push the dough through to create long, thin strands of 88 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: spaghetti or vermicelli or whatever you prefer. But Arab pasta 89 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,679 Speaker 1: was so handy because it could be reconstituted with water, 90 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: and so it was an essential stable for traders and 91 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: travelers and militiamen anyone who would be traveling from that 92 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: part of the world over to Europe and passing through Sicily. 93 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: The Sicilians really grasped onto this concept of pasta. In fact, 94 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: if you look at very old Sicilian pasta recipes, some 95 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: even call for ingredients like cinnamon and raisins, which we 96 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: don't think of as traditional Italian ingredients today, but obviously 97 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: they refer back to Arab pasta. And an essential difference 98 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: to clarify between Chinese pasta and Italian pasta is that 99 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: the Chinese may there's with millet, and the Italians made 100 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: theirs with derham. Derham wheat is much heavier and denser 101 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,559 Speaker 1: and has much higher protein than some other kinds of wheat, 102 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: but it's also tough to deal with because it is 103 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: so full protein and so dense. But the great thing 104 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: is that it contains gluten, so it's more malleable. So 105 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: even though it could be shaped and cared for and 106 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: have a longer shelf life than Chinese pasta, it was 107 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: pretty unwieldy. And if you still needed any convincing about 108 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: the total unrelated nous of Chinese pasta and Italian pasta, 109 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: there's a will from a gene V soldier dated twelve 110 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: seventy nine, when Marco Polo still would have been in China, 111 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: in which this soldier bequeaths macaroni to someone, And it's 112 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: fascinating to think that macaroni was considered so valuable. I mean, 113 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: today I've got a box of whole wheat routine and 114 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: my pantry that I'd be embarrassed if I died and 115 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: left behind it's so old. But back the world of 116 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: thirteenth century Italy, it was incredibly valuable to have pasta 117 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,239 Speaker 1: and your pantry, and that's because of the dirm wheat. 118 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: It was so hard to deal with. It took a 119 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: whole crew of people working really hard all day long 120 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: to turn this pasta into something that you could actually eat. 121 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: A good analogy. You think of a really valuable bottle 122 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: of wine that sits in your wine cellar in ages 123 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: with time and becomes more valuable. That's the essence of 124 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: dry pasta, and just reconstitute it later. But I digrass 125 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: because we're talking about history and not just about noodles. 126 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: So let's delve a little bit into the development of pasta, 127 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: because what's so interesting to me is that what began 128 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: as a rich man's food eventually became the peasants staple 129 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: at the time in Italy. Of course, everything was made 130 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: by artisans, and that's the type of thing you find 131 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: when you go to a gourmet shop. Now you find 132 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: artisanal bread or artisanal cheese, and as you know, it's 133 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: very expensive, whereas mass produced boxes of pasta at your 134 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: local grocery store pretty cheap, and mass manufacturing makes things 135 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: cheaper for everybody. The same thing happened in the United 136 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: States when the first factory came to being in eighteen 137 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: twenty four. Yeah, and what's great about factory produced pasta 138 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,679 Speaker 1: is that it is more readily available for the masses, 139 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: and that's something that Italy continues to struggle with today. 140 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: The demand for pasta far outweighs the production of pasta 141 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: is so ironically enough, it'll even has to import some 142 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: pasta give figure. But production of pasta in the United 143 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: States is a little bit inauthentic because when dough is 144 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: pushed through dies and extruded into strands in different shapes, 145 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: it's rendered a little bit smoother than artisanal pasta, so 146 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: it doesn't have all those fun little grooves and abrasions 147 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: that hold the sauce. But while it may not be 148 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: as authentic as Italian pasta originally was, it really served 149 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: the American people when the when the Great Depression hit, 150 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: for instance, in the world wars and supplies were scarce 151 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: and times where and people needed a good staple. I 152 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: think that swin recipes for tomato based sauces and pasta 153 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: first started appearing in women's magazines, and it's just like 154 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: it is now during a recession, when you keep seeing 155 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: programs and articles like how to Shop on a budget 156 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: and feeding your family for fifty dollars a week. Pasta 157 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: is a food of the people. It really is. It's 158 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 1: a great go to item. And so the next time 159 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: you crack open a box of noodles and unscrew the 160 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: lid on a jar of red sauce, be sure to 161 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: think the Arabs, because that's where it came from in 162 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: the long line of pasta history. And if you want 163 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: to learn even more about Marco Polo, remember him and 164 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: the history of pasta? You can read the article did 165 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: Marco Polo bring Pasta Back from China? On how staff 166 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: works dot com. For more on this and thousands of 167 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: other topics, visit how stuff works dot com. Let us 168 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: know what you think, send an email to podcast get 169 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com, and be sure to check 170 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: out the Stuff you missed history class plot on the 171 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: house staff works dot com home page. M