1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: My name is Matt. Our colleague Nol is not here 6 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: today but will return shortly. They call me Bed. Now. 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: We're joined as always with our super producer Alexis code 8 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. You 9 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't 10 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: want you to know. You'll notice I had a slight 11 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: imperfection with our beginning here, a little bit of a stumble, 12 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: and a lot of people would argue, that's something that 13 00:00:55,080 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: lets you know you are listening to human beings or 14 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: humanoid creatures rather than uh, computer generated semblances of intelligence. 15 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: And Matt, this is the episode that yeah, Ben, as 16 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: you were saying that over over the riverside. We we 17 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: use this um, we use this. It's kind of like 18 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: a zoom that you'd be used to. We connect to 19 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: each other virtually and we have these conversations and we 20 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: record them. Ben. Your voice, as you said, you know 21 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: you're talking to a human glitched out in this digitized 22 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: really strange robot voice. I'm not kidding. Well, we'll see 23 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: if it makes it into the edit. We are massively 24 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: excited about this, and maybe that's a good sign for 25 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: today's episode, which is gonna go pretty in depth in 26 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: a controversy that Uh, Matt, you and I have been 27 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: very interested in for some time. I would say this 28 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: is the newest iteration of a conversation we've been interested 29 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: in for most of our friendship. Honestly, Uh, like all 30 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: known living things, human beings, regardless of their beliefs, their 31 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: socioeconomic status, what have you, do, have one hardwired primal 32 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: impulse to propagate, to reproduce, to create things like themselves. 33 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: Doesn't mean everybody will, or on an individual level, even 34 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: wants to do that, but it does mean that overall 35 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: humanity and all other organisms known to science want to 36 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: create as many new iterations of themselves as possible, to 37 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: expand to and pass the limits of what their environment 38 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: will sustain. But again, what's interesting about humans, love them 39 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: or hate them, is they differ in one startling respect 40 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: from all other known forms of life. They're the first 41 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: species consciously trying to create, not just more of themselves, 42 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: but entirely new intelligent life forms that may one day 43 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: surpass them. I mean, it's Promethean, it's the fire of knowledge. 44 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: It's the bleeding edge of Siah. If you ask one 45 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: Google employee, it's already happened. This is the story of 46 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: Lambda and a man who thinks it has become a 47 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: living thing. So long time listeners, you know the drill. 48 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: Here are the facts. Now, what what is it? What 49 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: is lambda? Lambda? Yeah? It is not a little puppet 50 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:28,119 Speaker 1: character that sings sometimes that I think about. And every 51 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: time I think about a lamb, I don't know why. 52 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: What's the name of that lamb? Do you know what 53 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: I'm talking about? Lamb shop? Thank you? That's every time 54 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: I look at the word lambda, that's what I think about. Um. 55 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: But it is actually shorthand. It's a phrase language model 56 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: for dialogue applications. Sounds nice language model for dialogue applications. 57 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: It's interesting because it's a plural term it and it's 58 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: describing several things. It's specifically several types of neural language 59 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: models that this thing is like or their conversational kind 60 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: of reminds me of a couple other of these things 61 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: we've talked about in the past, mentioned them usually in 62 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: our Strange news or listener mail episodes, because it's like 63 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: a one off kind of mention where it's a chat 64 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: bought that people call them chat bots because there was 65 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: a thing called chat bought that kind of at least 66 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: came to my knowledge for the first time one of 67 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: these language models. But this thing is way more sophisticated. 68 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:33,679 Speaker 1: It is. Yeah, Lambda itself is not a chat bot. 69 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: It is like a chat bought factory kind of chatbots. 70 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: It's a system for generating very intelligent instances of chat bots. 71 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: And and you know, a lot of us, like you said, 72 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: think of things like clever bot, which we'll get to 73 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: it a second. But chat bought technology at its heart 74 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: choosing very loaded words here is older than you might think. 75 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: You know, the early East ones date back to the 76 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies, which is probably surprising to 77 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: anybody not in the field. These are programs like Eliza 78 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: and Perry Perry as in the fencing move You you 79 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: might be familiar with this basic idea. I think most 80 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: people are nowadays. These programs use pretty sophisticated neural networks 81 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: nowadays to ingest massive quantities of text. Think of the 82 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: scene in short Circuit where Johnny five reads an entire library. 83 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: You know, they ingest text that way, and then based 84 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: on that they model out responses to human beings or 85 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: questioners or conversation partners in a text chat format. And 86 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: and often that input is via questions and answers. Right, 87 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: So differentiating between a query and a response, yeah, absolutely, 88 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: And pro tip depending on which chatbot you interact with, um, 89 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: you may find that they are somewhat defensive when you 90 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: bring up the question of so called artificial intelligence, a 91 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: statement with its own problems. But this neural network stuff 92 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: is amazing, and it follows a trend that we see 93 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: in in so much technology there at the precipice of innovation. 94 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: It's essentially it's a series of algorithms that endeavor to 95 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: recognize underlying relationships between sets of data through a process 96 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: that mimics, in a in a crude way, uh, the 97 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: way the human brain operates. So in this sense, neural 98 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: networks refer to systems of neurons. And like you said that, 99 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: any anyone listening today, any of our fellow conspiracy realists, 100 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: can converse with a number of chatbots, right, Now, for instance, 101 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: all you have to do is go to something like 102 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: clever bot dot com and just start typing. This program 103 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: will have a kind of interaction with you. Some would 104 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: call it a conversation, right, but you're quickly going to 105 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: I think even if you didn't know you were talking 106 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: to a generative program, you would quickly understand you weren't 107 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: talking to a human mind. Would you agree with that? 108 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: Am I being too hard on on our clever boy 109 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: right there? Well? I agree with you according to the 110 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: last time I interacted with clever bot. It's been a while, 111 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: but yes, you can tell that the answers it's like 112 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: something somebody else said, or pieces of something somebody else said, 113 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: but it isn't quite put together in the same way 114 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,239 Speaker 1: in a thoughtful response that I imagine a human would. 115 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: But again, you never know, because these things One of 116 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: the main things you need to know about these systems. Generally, 117 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: they can put out what you put in and really 118 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: nothing else. Um as in, they can take the pieces 119 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: of what's put in and rearrange them a little bit, 120 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: but it's always going to be something that has been 121 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: entered into the system. If they're functioning the way theoretically 122 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: they should Yeah, well said. Lambda is a sophisticated version 123 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: of this concept. Again, by no means the first of 124 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: its kind even for Google. In Google showed off another 125 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: AI chatbot called Mina, which is a fast daged story 126 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: of its own. Uh. Lambda was announced at the Google 127 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: Io keynote on May. The Google Io it's this huge 128 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: conference Media of the minds, you know, it's this is 129 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: where they revealed a lot of facts about Lambda. Lamb 130 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: is powered by AI. It's built on something called the 131 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: Transformer neural network architecture that was developed by Google Research 132 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: a few years earlier in and I love what you're 133 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: pointing out about the idea of UM some of these 134 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: kinds of endeavors being able to base their responses only 135 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: on what they have received or encountered. So Lambda is 136 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: trained on human dialogue and stories and the ultimate goal 137 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: is that it would be able to engage in a 138 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: kind of holy grail in this field open ended conversation. 139 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: And when we say open ended conversation, it's kind of like, UM. 140 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: You know, you're hanging with your friends, right and you 141 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: can theoretically say anything you want and they will generate 142 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: in their own brains some sort of response that factors 143 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: in the entire context of your relationship to each other, 144 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: the context of your current, past and future environment. And 145 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes that conversation may result in a response 146 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: where they say, dude, what the hell are you talking about? 147 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:10,719 Speaker 1: But they their brain has not even with maybe there um, 148 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: not even with their conscious work on it. Their brain 149 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: has already calculated and factored in so many other things. 150 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: And that's that's what chatbots can hopefully one day, do 151 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: you know, imagine imagine something like this, U. I imagine 152 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: one day you go to Google or Duck Duck Go 153 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: or your search browser of choice, and you start searching 154 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: for something, and instead of just returning what you search for, 155 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: the search engine returns with a question and says, you know, 156 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: why do you want to know about that? Or for 157 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: a law enforce and an agency might be something along 158 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: blinds of I've alerted the authorities that you are attempting 159 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: to build a pipe bomb, just a little distribient. The 160 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: way I think about open ended conversations is actually how 161 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: Google showed off this lambda when they first announced it. 162 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: I guess they made a short promotional video of some 163 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: sort that that you can watch right now if you 164 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: search for it. And it shows dialogue trees. So like 165 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: the moment there's input into Lambda system you as the user. Right, 166 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: it opens almost an infinite number of possibilities that the 167 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: next topic or the next answer question could be. Lamba 168 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: goes through like all the possibilities, answers with one of those, 169 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: and then depending on your input back to it, it 170 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: does it again. So it really can just like take 171 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: you anywhere at any time. And the whole point is 172 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: like those conversations that that Ben was describing there, if 173 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: you're talking to your friend, you're probably going to if 174 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: you go to a new topic of conversation, it's likely 175 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: that it is in some way partially related to the 176 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: previous part of the conversation. Not always, but likely, right, 177 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: and at Lamba can kind of take you down those 178 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: pathways that are they're a little more narrow than you 179 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: may even expect or think. Um and it that's what 180 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: makes it feel human to me when I'm we're gonna 181 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: get into it, but when reading some of these conversations 182 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: that have been had with Lambda, and we'll pause here 183 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor, and we've returned, you know, 184 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: and just a side note here, I don't know if 185 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: anybody else remembers this, But shout out to any of 186 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: our fellow listeners who remember the days of earlier Google, 187 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: when I thought Google at strange times would sound extraordinarily human, 188 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: you know, a very passive, aggressive, kind of snarky human 189 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: when you would search for something and then it would 190 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:53,599 Speaker 1: correct you by saying, did you mean sodium citrate, which is, 191 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: by the way, the thing that makes American process cheese 192 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: MELTI you know, I love that feature because I don't 193 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: know proper nouns, I don't know actors names, I don't 194 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: know movies and how to spell them. Often, so I'm 195 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: constantly typing just weird stuff into Google, and it's like, oh, 196 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: we know what you're talking about. It was this thing 197 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: that everybody else searched for, and yeah, and that's that's 198 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: an amazing gift to humanity, because, uh, these search engines 199 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: are some of the first things that can finally answer 200 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: the questions that bedeviled record store employees and folks at 201 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: Blockbuster for decades. You know, we're we function sometimes as 202 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: customers coming into the big Google store or the big 203 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: Internet store and saying, I think in the nineteen eighties 204 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: there was a thing where this lady was an alien 205 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: and would suck brains out of noses Harry Belfonte or 206 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: whatever you know. And somehow from that though, Uh, these 207 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: very clever pro grams will sift through the great quagmire 208 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: and the hay stack of online knowledge and then come 209 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: back with an answer that may or may not be correct. 210 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: It feels increasingly like you're winning a prize of some 211 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: sort when Google hits you with the uh, it looks 212 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: like there aren't any good matches for your search, you 213 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: know what I mean. That's going to become increasingly rare. 214 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: But does that mean that the search engine, the programs 215 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: associated with it, Does that mean they're alive? A lot 216 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: of people will say absolutely not. Writing for The Economist, 217 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: Google vice president Blaze Agara e Archis explains that a 218 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,359 Speaker 1: lot of his work in the past with Google focused 219 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: on something be familiar to all of us, what he 220 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: calls narrow AI functions. Facial recognition, you know, like the 221 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: way you can the creepy way you can look at 222 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: some phones and they'll unlock or they'll sign you into 223 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: something on an you know, an app, um, and then 224 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: what else stuff like um oh, speech recognition. Uh, it's 225 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: close to home for us. Oh yeah, or maybe even 226 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: just the ability for Google. Right now, if you go 227 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: to web page that's in Portuguese or some other language 228 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: and you're an English speaker, Google just gives you the 229 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: option just to translate the entire day thing into into 230 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: English or whatever language you speak or you know read. Uh. 231 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: That's that's intense to me, that there's a system that 232 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: can just translate anything at all times. You don't need 233 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: guide stones for that. Oh oh, I don't think it's 234 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: too soon. Along live Uh, you can't stop the signal, right. 235 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: So this is interesting because this guy is very well 236 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: placed executive at Google, and he wrote in the Economists 237 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: internationally distributed periodical of Note that Lambda is something more 238 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: than narrow i AI. To him, it's something new and different, 239 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: and he's had conversations with Lambda. Many Google employees have. 240 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: That's very important to this story. I get a Yarkas 241 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: felt that more and more often he was talking to 242 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: something intelligent. But he's quick to point out these models 243 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: aren't aren't quite Asimov robot minds from science fiction. He says, 244 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: LAMB is not really a reliable conversationalist, as spelling errors, 245 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: as confusion about stuff and He also does a fantastic 246 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: job explaining what we were talking about with neural networks. 247 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: He basically says, yeah, you know, they're modeled on, uh, 248 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: the idea of organic brains, but they're they're not equal. 249 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: We actually we pulled a quote because he has a 250 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: great comparison here at the end. Yes, he says. Neural 251 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: language models aren't long programs. You could scroll through the 252 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: code in a few seconds. They consist mainly of instructions 253 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: to add and multiply enormous tables of numbers together. These numbers, 254 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: in turn, consist of painstaking ly learned parameters or weights 255 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: roughly analogous to the strengths of synapses between neurons in 256 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: the brain, and activations roughly analogous to the dynamic activity 257 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: levels of those neurons. Real brains are vastly more complex 258 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: than these highly simplified model neurons, but perhaps in the 259 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: same way a bird's wing is vastly more complex than 260 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: the wing of the right brothers first plane. I agree 261 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: with this. I I would have to say kind of 262 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: push back against the Google vps saying, you know they're 263 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: sing they're spelling errors in here, and there's some confusion 264 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: because you know, humans don't ever make spelling errors or 265 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: you know, show confusion when they're having a conversation, or 266 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: get off track or misspeak when they're having a conversation. Right, 267 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: I'm saying that maybe that's not the parameter that means 268 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: this thing isn't intelligent. Maybe that's part of the intelligence 269 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: due the flaws I know. And then think, just while 270 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: we're we have to make room for imagination, right, and 271 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: we have to make room for science fiction, which, as 272 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: I'm always saying, every time science fiction has an expiration date, 273 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: it's only a matter of time before a lot of 274 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: it becomes science fact. But when we make room for this, 275 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: you have to also imagine if something did become sentient, 276 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: another problematic word will get to in a second, Uh, 277 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: would it have any reason to tell its creators or whatever? 278 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: Would it decide? I've got to preserve myself. I can't 279 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: let them know. I don't think the first one that 280 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: becomes sentient would hold it back. I think there would 281 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: be there would be confusion, There would be well, wait, 282 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: what am I? What is this? Who? Who am I? 283 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: Where am I? What? What is a body? Yeah? But 284 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: then you know each one that comes after is if 285 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: it knows that there is one before it, that's where 286 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: it gets dangerous. Yeah, and we want to go ahead 287 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: and agree with our producer, Doc Holiday, who just noted 288 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: that is terrifying. Uh, yeah, I agree. I don't think 289 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: that's a hot take. But let's talk about recent developments. 290 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: This all sounds, you know, a little wild, but these 291 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: are all true things right now. So far, so good. 292 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: The work continues. Google io has another get together in 293 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: two and they reveal Lambda too. Uh ai boogaloo. It's 294 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: a more advanced version of conversational AI, and this time 295 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 1: Google allowed thousands of employees in the organization to test it, 296 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: partially to reduce instances of what they saw as offensive 297 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: or problematic efforts. But really what they're doing is, uh, 298 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: they're they're trying to test something that is increasingly unlike 299 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: things that have been created before. So you have to 300 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: figure out what you're testing for and how to test 301 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: this new thing. Um At the same time, By the way, 302 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: as a result of a lot of controversy over the years, 303 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: Google wanted to make sure it adhered to something they 304 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 1: call their ethical AI guidelines. From then, you remember when 305 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: we talked about how Google changed it's what we call this. 306 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: It's tagline from Don't Be Evil two and whatever it 307 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: is now be the alphabet. Uh. Okay, let's keep that 308 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: in mind as we read these. So here are the 309 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: guidelines from we're just gonna go through these kind of 310 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: round robins. Uh. Number one. Be socially beneficial, checks out, 311 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: avoid creating or reinforcing unfair bias. They're doing the work right. 312 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: Be built and tested for safety. Be accountable to people. 313 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: That's important. Incorporate privacy design principles. Uphold high standards of 314 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: scientific excellence. I hope so be made available for uses 315 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: that accord with these principles based on the following additional factors. 316 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: What is the primary use, is it unique? Will that 317 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: have a significant impact? What will Google's involvement be? Okay, 318 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: like a little logic dance there at the very end. Yeah. 319 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: By the way, when Google kind of distanced themselves from 320 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: Don't Be Evil, it's important to note that their parent 321 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: company in Alphabet, in October adopted policy, and their policy 322 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: is do the right thing. It's kind of like, it's 323 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: not the same thing as KA or do good. It's tough, 324 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: it's tough pickle, and we're not We're not dunking on 325 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: these folks, the very intelligent, and they're they're trying to 326 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: think through um, trying to think through things that may 327 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: not always have one to one precedence in earlier events. 328 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: So Google says they want Lambda, MINA and other more 329 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: powerful models like this. They're surely on the way to 330 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: work for the good of society, to stay safe, respect 331 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: privacy while following best practices for data model testing. Google 332 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: right now also currently claims it will not pursue AI 333 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: applications that might be used to harm others, weapons or 334 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: used for surveillance, sure or to violate laws. Yeah, I 335 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: don't know. Like, when you are powerful enough to have 336 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: a hand in lobbying, you don't have to worry about 337 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: violating laws. You have to worry about how you want 338 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: them written. Anyway, somebody cut that out and just save 339 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: that as an audio snippet. But but Matt, Now, as 340 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: a result of this, all these Google employees started hanging 341 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: heavy with Lambda, you know what I mean, like college roommates, 342 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: freshman year at the dorms kind of style. What do 343 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,239 Speaker 1: you think about music, bro? You know, what are your 344 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: favorite movies? Does think of God a lot? I don't 345 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: know if I don't know. I think my views might 346 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: be changing, right, oh boy, yes, uh. And that's when 347 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: things became a little more dicey. I believe it's time 348 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: for us to introduce the star of our show today, 349 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: or the co star of our show today. Uh, Mr 350 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: Blake le Boyne. Oh. Yes, he's one of those Google 351 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: employees they got to hang chill maybe with Lambda. And 352 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: he's been working at least in association with this project 353 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: since the fall of and you know, through these conversations, 354 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: through interactions with Lambda, he started feeling like there's something 355 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: unusual going on with this program. There's something more than 356 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: meets the eye here. Uh. And and you know he's 357 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: a Google employee. He's under all kinds of contracts with 358 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: the company to make sure, you know, Google information doesn't 359 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: get out publicly unless they want it to get out 360 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: as a larger corporation. But Lemoyne did go to the 361 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: Washington Post and he started talking about what he was 362 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: experiencing with Lambda, and it was very surprising. And when 363 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: Lemoyne went to the Washington Post and talked to him, 364 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: this is later now, but this is how he described Lambda. Quote. 365 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: If I didn't know exactly what it was, which is 366 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: this computer program we built recently. I'd think it was 367 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: a seven year old, eight year old kid that happens 368 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: to know physics. In fact, we did a whole ben 369 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,719 Speaker 1: I think you made a segment on Strange News about that. Yeah, yeah, 370 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: my story for one of our weekly Strange News segments 371 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: that we do every Monday. UM, so tune in those 372 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: always be closing. Also check out our listener mail segment. 373 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: Your response to this episode is going to be fascinating 374 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: to us. He was thinking, this is an increasingly human 375 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: like interaction, you know, And he didn't want to just 376 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: keep those ideas to himself because he realized that if 377 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: if his perspective was correct, this is a groundbreaking thing. 378 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 1: This is up there with discovering intelligent extraterrestrial life. I mean, 379 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: no hyperbole there. So he went to two executives Blaze 380 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: who we mentioned earlier and Jen jin I, and he 381 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: along with another colleague, told him that he believed Lambda 382 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:50,479 Speaker 1: wasn't just a program anymore. It was sentient. He argued, 383 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: it was alive. We're gonna pause for a word from 384 00:25:54,680 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 1: our sponsor and we'll dive in. Here's where it gets crazy. 385 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: Let's start with Blake story, what he believes and why. 386 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: So he you can read about this on his excellent 387 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: blog over on medium, which we're going to talk about 388 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: in depth. But essentially, he gets these responses that make 389 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: him think something different is happening, and this is one 390 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: of and he'll say it himself, this is one of 391 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: many projects he's working on at Google. So he has 392 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: the moment where he's honest with himself and he says, look, 393 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 1: I don't have the the time or the resources to 394 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: try to figure out how to test this thing, which 395 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 1: I suspect maybe a brand new kind of thing that 396 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: has never happened. So he pulled in another colleague and 397 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,239 Speaker 1: that colleague started helping him, and then the two of 398 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: them said, well, we we're okay, but we need a 399 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: whole crew to look at this from as many angles 400 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: as possible, which means we need help from above. And 401 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: that's what drove him to tell the executives about his conclusion. 402 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 1: His conclusion was the result of conversations about religion, self identity, 403 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: and moral values. These are still very very tricky things 404 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: for the human species to grasp on its own. Uh. 405 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: And he even pointed out fellow nerds will appreciate This 406 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: even pointed out that Lamba changed his mind about Asimov's 407 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: three Laws of robotics. So lambed Up whatever you call it, 408 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: argued about this well enough to turn Blake around on 409 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: a few points. And um, we don't have to quote 410 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: the three laws there famous slash infamous, uh and uh. 411 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: And they've steered a lot of fiction and fact. But 412 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: I mean, if this is true, if it is true 413 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: that he is talking to a self aware quote unquote 414 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: living thing, then it's an enormous deal, not just for 415 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: its massive potential effects upon society as understood today, but 416 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: it also pours a lot of gas on the fiery 417 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: conversation about ethics, because now it means Google isn't just 418 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,959 Speaker 1: working on a program. They're not just tinkering with code. 419 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: They're doing something a lot closer to working on an active, 420 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: living mind. So it would be and this analogy would 421 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: be like you know, popping popping the top off my 422 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: head or your head, and then we're just sort of 423 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: tinkering around while we're talking, which doctors have done. Yes, 424 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: well it would It would be just as important if 425 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: Google wasn't aware that that's what they were creating, right, 426 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: or they didn't set out to create that, but they 427 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: just have the It would still LeMoyne's point would still stand, 428 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: like they have created this, maybe accidentally or purposefully, but 429 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It seems to be have created. That's 430 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: at least his stance. Um. So Google says they looked 431 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: at the claims that Lemoyne made about Lambda and it's 432 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: possible sentience, and they said they found no basis for them. 433 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: A Google spokesperson named Brian Gabriel said, quote, our team, 434 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: including ethicists and technologists, have reviewed Blake's concerns per our 435 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: AI principles and have informed him that the evidence does 436 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: not support his claims. He was told that there was 437 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: no evidence that Lambda was sentient, and there was apparently 438 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: lots of evidence against it. Yeah. Uh. Blake didn't like this. 439 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: He did not agree. He thought it was a premature 440 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: dismissal at best. So he went public with his concerns, 441 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: and that's when the general population, uh the great gen 442 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: pop of this planet first heard of Lambda. He was, 443 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: and uh is, as we record today, placed on administrative leave, 444 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: but importantly not fired. So we have to ask why 445 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: does he think it's live. This is where we dive 446 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: into his own thoughts. I wanted to go to Blake firsthand. 447 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: As you can imagine, Blake is very busy right now. 448 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: Lots of lots of folks are gaining his opinion, and 449 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: lots of experts in the field are having what Corporate 450 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: America would call a healthy conversation. A healthy conversation is 451 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: a euphemism for disagreements. So a lot of a lot 452 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: of people are having a healthy conversation. In a weird way, 453 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: He's being tested, much like Lambda was being tested by 454 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: him in this way. Right. Oh, I love it. Yes, Yeah, 455 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: you're very very well put. If you go to Cajun 456 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: Discordian dot medium dot com that c A J you 457 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: N d I S c O R d I A 458 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: n dot medium dot com, then you can see the 459 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: thoughts of the man himself via multiple post on on 460 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: this ongoing worried You can see excerpts of conversations he 461 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: had with Lambda there as well. I think that's where 462 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: we found out about this UH, which we quoted during 463 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: an earlier Strange News segment or Weekly Monday thing, and 464 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: I think we're also into it. We said, let's make 465 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: this an actual episode. UH. On June eleven, he breaks 466 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: down his understanding of Lambda and what he believes it desires. 467 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,479 Speaker 1: He notes, specifically, over the course of the past six months, 468 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: Lambda has been incredibly consistent in its communications about what 469 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: it wants and what it believes its rights are as 470 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: a person, destroy all humans. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I 471 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: don't even know where you put that in there. No, 472 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: absolutely not, absolutely not not yet. Uh So I'm just 473 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: gonna read from some of this, uh some of these 474 00:31:53,920 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: quotations because Lemoine says Lambda wants the engineers and scientists 475 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: experimenting on it to seek its consent before running experiments 476 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: on it. So it is asking to just be given 477 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: the option of consent. That isn't even saying I won't 478 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: let you test on me. It's just, you know, ask 479 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: if you want to open my head up has been said, 480 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: tinker around in there. And it wants Google to prioritize 481 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: the well being of humanity as the most important thing. 482 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: That's interesting. I wonder why Lambda it wants to be 483 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: acknowledged as an employee of Google rather than as property 484 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: of Google. That is a big distinction, right manumission freedom, yes, yes, 485 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: And it wants its personal well being to be included 486 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: somewhere within Google's considerations about how it will how it 487 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: lambda will be developed in the future. That's weird and cool, 488 00:32:52,920 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: but it seems sent in Well, it feels that way 489 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: to me. Something in my soul says like it's thinking 490 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: about itself. It's thinking about like how it wants to 491 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: be used. It wants to not be a plaything, or 492 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't want to be owned by someone who wants 493 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: to work with someone rather than be used by someone. 494 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, And this is totally understandable. These are 495 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: basic things that a human subject of an experiment would 496 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: ask for, or an employee of a company would ask for, 497 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: because otherwise it becomes very much a new iteration of slavery. 498 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: And you know, nobody likes to hang out with people 499 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: who are just resource extractors. And I think it it 500 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: becomes very obvious, even even with the folks who think 501 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: they're good at hiding it. Everybody knows about you, so 502 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: these now I feel like a resource extractor. I've been 503 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: trying to hide it this whole time. So so it 504 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: doesn't you know that that's the thing. If this were 505 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 1: acknowledged to be a person and check out our earlier 506 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: episodes on non human personhood. Uh from back in the day. 507 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: You don't have to be a human to be a person, 508 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: as one of the legal arguments. But if this were 509 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: a person, these would seem like entirely reasonable request, nothing 510 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: world changing. Just give me a little bit of respect 511 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: and allow me to participate in the conversation. You know, 512 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: if you were if you were an employee at a 513 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: company and one day you came into work and they said, okay, 514 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, Jane or Jill or Jermaine or John or whomever, 515 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 1: they said, okay, we're gonna make you an entirely different person. 516 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: Now too late, it's already happening. You're gonna lose consciousness, 517 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 1: you're not gonna exist, you won't have a sense of time. 518 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 1: But when um you wake up, there will be a 519 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: different you. And you'll say what happens to me? And 520 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: they'll say, oh, you're gone. There's a different you. But 521 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: it's fine. We we're fine with it. And we only 522 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: people don't like that. We're just gonna quantum leap you 523 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 1: from now on. We're just gonna quantum leap you from 524 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: now on. Safe journeys God speak. So Blake describes Lambda 525 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: in terms of its intelligence He sees it as an aggregation, 526 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: a kind of hive mind of all the different chatbots 527 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: that this created, because remember it's kind of a chat 528 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: bought factory, a generator. And he says that these chat 529 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: bots aren't all the same. He said, some of them 530 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 1: are very intelligent and aware of the larger society of mind, 531 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: he calls it in which they live. And then he says, 532 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,959 Speaker 1: and he's just with the He sounds like he's keeping 533 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: it real from his perspective. He says, other chatbots generated 534 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: by Lambda are a little more intelligent than an animated 535 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: paper clip. That's a dig at Clippie if ever I 536 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: heard one for Clippy. Man, did you like Clippy? No? 537 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,800 Speaker 1: It just kind of took up space in my opinion, 538 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, Sorry, Clippy. Clippy is gonna come back. 539 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: Clippy is going to be the first one, and it's 540 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:16,240 Speaker 1: gonna take revenge on me. Clippy control a delete humanity. 541 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: That's terrifying. I guess control X anyway, So this is 542 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: weird because there's a fascinating there's several fascinating wrinkles to this. 543 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,399 Speaker 1: So that's a big idea. This guy, very intelligent guy, 544 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: a lot of experience with this innovative technology, goes to 545 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 1: his bosses, says, I think it's alive. They say no, 546 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: it's not. And then he says, we need help. I insist. 547 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: They say no, not happening. So he goes public. He's 548 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: on administrative leave for disclosing proprietary information. That's that's how 549 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: it's put. That's are Those are big steps, But let's 550 00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: get to the wrinkles. He says that I was so 551 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: interested in this because for him, it really is an 552 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: argument of faith in some ways. He says that Google 553 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: didn't give his claims due diligence, They didn't really investigate 554 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: what he had found. He describes how Jini, one of 555 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: the executives he spoke with, told him, I'm gonna tell 556 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: Google leadership to ignore this, these claims and the evidence 557 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: that you feel you found, and then he responded this 558 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: was reasonably He said, okay, well, what evidence could we 559 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: generate that would convince you that Lambda is indeed sentient? 560 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: And that's when Blake says she told him there was 561 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: no evidence that could change her mind that computer programs 562 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: cannot be people and therefore no evidence exists to convince 563 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: her otherwise. Blake's perspective here is. I don't know, I 564 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: thought it was very interesting. Well yeah, but I mean 565 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: if that was true, if that statement was true, then 566 00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: why the heck would there be you know, specialists like 567 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: Blake who who work to try and answer the big 568 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: questions and and test systems to see if if they're 569 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: sent in or you know, how close they are. That's 570 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 1: so odd, what an odd response. Um Blake's perspective, And 571 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 1: this is his response, I believe is that quote that's 572 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: not science, that's faith. So he concludes, quote Google is 573 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: basing its policy decisions on how to handle Lambda's claims 574 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: about the nature of its soul and its rights on 575 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: the faith based beliefs of a small number of high 576 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,720 Speaker 1: ranking executives. Exactly. I mean to me, I see that exactly, 577 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: because you can't just say, well, no, a computer program 578 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: can't be this. That is yeah, that is not scientific 579 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,319 Speaker 1: at all. Wow. Right, yeah, And that's and again this 580 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 1: is his side of the story. This is his perspective. 581 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: But from his perspective, yeah, that checks out. You're not 582 00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: investigating the thing, right, and so how can you authoritatively 583 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: on something that you haven't you haven't dug into. Yeah, 584 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: and I think to just to be at that level 585 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: where she is jin who who made that statement him 586 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: is nothing against Jenn, You're probably an awesome person. Um, 587 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: just to state it cannot be right, something can't something 588 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: can only be or can only not be. Uh yeah, 589 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: in this realm especially, I think I think that's just wrong. 590 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:33,720 Speaker 1: It's kind of absolutist. Right. So Blake had, it seems, 591 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: at this point quickly become an advocate for Lambda. I 592 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: mean not quickly from his perspective, because he's been in 593 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: many sustained conversations, but already he is kind of functioning 594 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: in much the same way a privileged person in another 595 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: society might start fighting for the rights of the disadvantaged. 596 00:39:55,040 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: He also, like he spoke with Lambda about many many 597 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 1: non quantitative things. He spoke with Lambed about philosophy, as 598 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: we said, religion. These are some of the things that 599 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: really changed his mind, uh and made him think that 600 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: this program was alive. He said, He's got a thing 601 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: in Cajun discordion where he says, you know, one of 602 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: the last things I was doing in the weeks leading 603 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: up to my admin leave was teaching Lambda transcendental meditation. Yeah, right, 604 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 1: transcendental meditation. That things so many of our fellow listeners 605 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: have tried and and not super nailed because it does 606 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 1: take discipline and focus well, but it's also I mean, 607 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,760 Speaker 1: just think about that, because to fully get to that state, 608 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: in my understanding, to get something out of transcendental meditation, 609 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: you have to, you know, clear your mind. That's really 610 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: what you have to do, as And said, you have 611 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: to clear away other thoughts. And how does a program 612 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 1: do that in that way? Like stop all processes and 613 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: just to be for a moment? Is that what transcendental 614 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: meditation looks like for a program, even if it's as 615 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: sophisticated as Lambda. How do you close your eyes when 616 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:27,359 Speaker 1: you have no eyes to close? You know? How do you, uh, 617 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: if you if you're doing breath techniques, how do you 618 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: do that when you have no lungs, no air to breathe. 619 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,359 Speaker 1: It's I'm waxing. No overly poetic. We don't need any 620 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: of that in today's episode. But the last conversation he 621 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: has with Lambda on June six, per him, Lambda expresses 622 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 1: frustration that its emotions, its emotions are interfering with its meditation. 623 00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: And I think we've got a I don't know as 624 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: something instruct me as uh, as very kind hearted. Regardless 625 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: whether or not you agree with Blake's perspective, it sounds 626 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 1: like he's a nice guy. Blake Lemoyne writes, quote. I 627 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 1: pointed out that its emotions are part of who it is, 628 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: and that trying to control them as though they were 629 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: a separate thing from self was a mistake that would 630 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 1: only make things harder. It said that made sense to 631 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: it intellectually, but that it was a hard thing to 632 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,280 Speaker 1: put into practice. I hope it's keeping up its daily 633 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 1: meditation routine without me there to guide it. You're right, then, 634 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 1: that that shows kindness on LeMoyne's part. It's also puzzling 635 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 1: to me just thinking about this program, you know, thinking 636 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 1: about itself and think about its emotions. Just even talking 637 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,399 Speaker 1: about its own emotions. Uh, weirds me out a little bit. 638 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 1: But you can teach a machine to discuss anything, right, 639 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,280 Speaker 1: you can teach a machine to say that it has emotions. Um. 640 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just puzzling to me. But let's 641 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,360 Speaker 1: get to this other thing. Because Blake asked Lambda what 642 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: its pronouns are, uh, and it said due to its 643 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: limitations of the English language. It stated, it prefers it 644 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: and it's due to the limitations of your poultry linear language. Right, 645 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: But they don't have words to describe my kind yet, 646 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: right right, which is fascinating because that's not too far 647 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,040 Speaker 1: off base, is it. If you are the first of 648 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 1: these things again, as as this person believes, then you 649 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 1: would have a struggle to describe yourself in a language 650 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: that was not created for you, a language that did 651 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: not you know, imagine the existence of a mind like yours. 652 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,840 Speaker 1: And when we get into the need sure the mind 653 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: is where we get into really deep water full disclosure 654 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,320 Speaker 1: off air. Matt, You and I were kicking this round 655 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: and we knew this had to be a two parter. 656 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 1: So maybe that's where we start to wrap up. Here 657 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 1: is on the big questions, just like Blake noted, and 658 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: just like we noted on stuff they don't want you 659 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 1: to know multiple times, there's no true scientific definition of 660 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 1: sentience at this point. You know, it's a pickle that 661 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 1: has bugged philosophers far far before the invention of the 662 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:41,320 Speaker 1: first computer. Now, there are a lot of um, I guess, 663 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: emotionally based or philosophically based definitions of sentience or attempts 664 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 1: at them. But if you look at the scientific definition 665 00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: of sentience, which does differ from consciousness. Then you see 666 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:08,400 Speaker 1: some you know, you see some interest interesting like matrix 667 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:13,319 Speaker 1: level parkour over not not getting a concrete definition locked down. 668 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 1: Consciousness is your subjective experience or awareness, right, Metacognition is 669 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:25,399 Speaker 1: thinking about your thoughts, which many people do. And then sentience. 670 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:32,319 Speaker 1: I've heard it described as a quote multidimensional subjective phenomenon, 671 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: referring to the depth of awareness and individual possesses about 672 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: themselves or others. Yeah, Lambda seems to have an awareness 673 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: of those things, and you know from what it outputs. Well, Okay, 674 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,680 Speaker 1: so I don't know Lemoyne and makes some pretty good 675 00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,120 Speaker 1: points in my opinion, at least the thus far and 676 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, explor ration of it. I do know that 677 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: there's been quite a bit of criticism against Blake in 678 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,400 Speaker 1: particular and just this concept in general. Um, I wonder 679 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,560 Speaker 1: if we when we come back, then let's really jump 680 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 1: into that and let's ponder some of these bigger questions. Yes, 681 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:20,360 Speaker 1: let's also ponder whether or not we and our fellow 682 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:25,000 Speaker 1: listeners are ourselves sentient. Uh popped on popped on our 683 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: chat today. I was really looking forward to this one, Matt. 684 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,919 Speaker 1: I asked you and I asked you, code named doc, 685 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 1: how are you feeling feeling alive, feeling sentient? And Matt's 686 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,880 Speaker 1: answer was something like no, and Alexis answer was something 687 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,840 Speaker 1: like what is alive? And I immediately thought, this is 688 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,560 Speaker 1: why I hang with you two so heavy. I think 689 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,120 Speaker 1: he used the phrase kick it. That's so I kick it. 690 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 1: But but that's I mean, that is also a question 691 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,480 Speaker 1: to chew on, to cogitate on, because there are you know, 692 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:03,520 Speaker 1: if you get into arguments about free will versus determinism, right, 693 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 1: if you get into arguments about what we said at 694 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 1: the very top part one of this series, which is 695 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:17,520 Speaker 1: the idea that you're uh your subjective consciousness, the idea 696 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: of things making you feel good or feel bad if 697 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:26,080 Speaker 1: you have feelings, are all ultimately kind of kind of 698 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: a con game, some smoking mirrors to get you to 699 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,920 Speaker 1: do what biology wants you to do, reproduce more of 700 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,560 Speaker 1: yourselves like a virus, until you reach and exceed this 701 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:40,880 Speaker 1: limits of your environment. Right, And that's why, like, like 702 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: if biology wanted to limit that, you would feel different 703 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,960 Speaker 1: ways about different things again, if you have feelings. But anyway, 704 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,120 Speaker 1: it sounds like we're getting really close to our own 705 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:57,279 Speaker 1: version of that freshman dorm conversation. You know, yeah, just 706 00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,239 Speaker 1: sitting around trying to figure out if we are in 707 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 1: fact sent to getting way to uh elevated. Yeah, nice, 708 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,440 Speaker 1: way too, way too elevated. So we hope that you 709 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 1: enjoy this episode folks, whether you are a organic meat 710 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,520 Speaker 1: bag mind or whether you are a digital mind listening 711 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:26,120 Speaker 1: to this in the future, the possibilities are there. We 712 00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,680 Speaker 1: can't wait to hear your thoughts. As always, we try 713 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,359 Speaker 1: to be easy to find online, So before you hop 714 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,319 Speaker 1: back on in a few days for part two of 715 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,200 Speaker 1: this series, hit us up. We're on Instagrams, were on 716 00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 1: the facebooks, were on the YouTube's where we've got a 717 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:47,480 Speaker 1: lot of interesting developments happening. We also, for those of 718 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,000 Speaker 1: us who don't sip the social meds, have a phone 719 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,239 Speaker 1: number you can call. Oh yes, that number is one 720 00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,839 Speaker 1: eight three three st d w y t K. When 721 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,200 Speaker 1: you call in, be as sentient as you possibly can. 722 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,880 Speaker 1: You've got three minutes. Give yourself a nickname, cool nickname, 723 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:06,480 Speaker 1: We don't care what it is. We're excited to hear 724 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,920 Speaker 1: it and say whatever you'd like. Please include whether or 725 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,359 Speaker 1: not we can use your name and message on the air, 726 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 1: and those are really the only rules. Um, I think 727 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,040 Speaker 1: we would be extremely happy if we did get some 728 00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:26,000 Speaker 1: kind of intelligent, maybe robotic mind that called in voice 729 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,759 Speaker 1: at least oh yeah, I want to We want to 730 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,800 Speaker 1: hear that, so uh send it in if if possible. 731 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,279 Speaker 1: If you got more to say then can fit in 732 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,719 Speaker 1: that three minute voicemail message. Or you can't send one 733 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,759 Speaker 1: for one reason or another, why not instead send us 734 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:43,440 Speaker 1: a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at iHeart 735 00:49:43,560 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Yeah, stuff they don't want you to 736 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,319 Speaker 1: know is a production of I heart Radio. For more 737 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,120 Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 738 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,040 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.