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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Counterpoints.

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Speaker 5: I'm Emily Dashinski here with Ryan Grimm and there's big

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Speaker 5: news today. Actually it feels like there's big news every day, Ryan,

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Speaker 5: But the House Speaker carousel has a new member, and

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Speaker 5: we're going to talk all about Mike john Mike Johnson,

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Speaker 5: who by the end of today may actually be the

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Speaker 5: Speaker of the House.

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Speaker 4: So we'll bring you that information.

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Speaker 5: We are going to start with updates on the war

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Speaker 5: in the Middle East. We're going to take you through

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Speaker 5: how the White House handled that situation yesterday. We're going

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Speaker 5: to take you to questions about the American presence in

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Speaker 5: Lebanon and attacks that have happened on American troops according

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Speaker 5: to our government over the.

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Speaker 4: Last couple of days.

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Speaker 5: We are going to talk about the Plea deal that

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Speaker 5: both Jenna Ellis struck, and also news that Mark Meadows

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Speaker 5: was given immunity former chief of staff at the White House.

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Speaker 4: And then we're going to do some really interesting.

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Speaker 5: Stuff here about Bernie Sanders, John Fetterman, and censorship of

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Speaker 5: people with kind heterodox takes on Palestine. So Ryan, we

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Speaker 5: also have a guest here who's going to talk about

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Speaker 5: one of your pet subjects, and that psychedelics.

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Speaker 4: So I'm looking forward to that too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is two guests here.

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Speaker 6: One is a general, a retired general who was advocating

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Speaker 6: on behalf of psychedelics for.

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Speaker 3: Veterans.

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Speaker 6: And it's interesting timing because if you guys watched yesterday,

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Speaker 6: Sagar and I covered that wild situation where the Alaska

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Speaker 6: air plane almost went down and it turned out the

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Speaker 6: guy is saying that he was on shrooms and thought

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Speaker 6: he was kind of getting out he was going to

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Speaker 6: wake himself up by shutting the plane off. That's a

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Speaker 6: nightmare for everybody on board, but also for people who

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Speaker 6: are urging psychedelics be brought out of the shadows. I

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Speaker 6: would argue it means we need better education and regulation

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Speaker 6: around them because we have prohibition and what happened happened,

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Speaker 6: But we're going to talk to our guests about that

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Speaker 6: at the end of the show.

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Speaker 3: Quick plug.

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Speaker 6: Remember, if you go to Breakingpoints dot com become a

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Speaker 6: premium subscriber, you can get the whole uncut show right

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Speaker 6: into your inbox. You can get that early second plug,

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Speaker 6: as you'll see up here. I got a second book

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Speaker 6: back here now. It's out in late November, early December.

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Speaker 6: It's called The Squad. It's about kind of the American

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Speaker 6: American left over the last couple of years. We'll be

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Speaker 6: talking about that more, but I'm just a little little

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Speaker 6: subtle reminder in the background there.

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Speaker 3: For the next couple of weeks.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's great, good cover, good cover, we'll take it.

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Speaker 6: So let's talk about the spiraling war in the Middle East,

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Speaker 6: and let's put up a one here because this is

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Speaker 6: the most kind of bellicost language that we've heard from

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Speaker 6: the United States yet, where they're saying that they will

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Speaker 6: hold Iran responsible for attacks by what it considers to

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Speaker 6: be its proxies, its clients around the region. Because you know,

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Speaker 6: Iran has clients in Yemen, obviously, in Gaza, in Lebanon,

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Speaker 6: in Syria, in Iraq, and previously the Pentagon and the

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Speaker 6: White House's line had been, Look, we don't want to

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Speaker 6: get ahead of ourselves here. If there is evidence that

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Speaker 6: Iran directed a particular attack, then we will hold Iran

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Speaker 6: responsible for that, But in general, we're not trying to

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Speaker 6: ratchet things up here. This is removing some of those

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Speaker 6: qualifications there. What did you make of the White House

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Speaker 6: coming out through the Pentagon saying that from here forward,

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Speaker 6: attacks on US troops by proxy by Iran proxies will

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Speaker 6: be blamed on Iran.

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Speaker 5: Well, let's put two up actually, because I think this

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Speaker 5: gives us some indication of exactly how we should take it.

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Speaker 4: So this is saying correctly.

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Speaker 5: The Pentagon says US troops have been attacked ten times

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Speaker 5: in Iraq and three times in Syria over the past week.

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Speaker 4: Now, Ryan, if we go to A three.

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Speaker 5: This is a story from the intercept that basically gets

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Speaker 5: to exactly how many stories, how many people are on

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Speaker 5: the ground in Lebanon, which the government is actually kind

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Speaker 5: of cagy about. Here's the quote from the story over

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Speaker 5: at the over at the intercept, It's that the White House,

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Speaker 5: in a June quote War Powers letter to Congress President

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Speaker 5: Joe Biden noted that quote, approximately eighty nine United States

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Speaker 5: military personnel are deployed to Lebanon to enhance the government's

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Speaker 5: counter terrorism capabilities and to support the counter terrorism operations

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Speaker 5: of Lebanese security forces.

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Speaker 6: And this is operating under what's known as two seventy e.

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Speaker 6: It's the provision of law to seventy echo they call it,

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Speaker 6: that allows the United States to operate through proxies, through

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Speaker 6: basically unvetted proxies. And so, in other words, you might

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Speaker 6: only have eighty nine we don't know, Like this is

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Speaker 6: what they say. You might only have eighty nine personnel,

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Speaker 6: But how many proxies are those eighty nine American personnel,

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Speaker 6: you know, equipping, recruiting, training, and operating. And what effect

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Speaker 6: does that create? And in creating let's say targets for

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Speaker 6: Hesbela and Lebanon, what vulnerabilities does it create and what

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Speaker 6: assets does it gives the United States in that region?

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Speaker 6: It shows that there's been this kind of war build

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Speaker 6: up across the entire region. People might be wondering, wait

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Speaker 6: a minute, we're getting attacked in Syria. How are we

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Speaker 6: getting intact in Syria? That doesn't make sense. We're not

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Speaker 6: at war with Syria. We're not in Syria. Well, yes,

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Speaker 6: turns out we are in Syria, We're in Iraq, We're

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Speaker 6: in Syria, every place we are. That's an opportunity for

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Speaker 6: some group, some iron back group to lob shells at us.

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, exactly when we can put the next element

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Speaker 5: up on the screen too, because this gets to it.

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Speaker 5: This is from meium Bremer, who says, eighty six thousand

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Speaker 5: approximately Americans live in Lebanon, six hundred thousand Americans live

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Speaker 5: in Israel, and to just pause for a moment, and

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Speaker 5: I think acknowledge that it's from my perspective, entirely likely

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Speaker 5: Iran is behind some of this. There are obvious questions,

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Speaker 5: and I think there's good reason for skepticism about what

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Speaker 5: our government is telling us as it pertains to Iran's involvement.

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Speaker 5: That said, given the kinetic conflict now in Israel, given

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Speaker 5: the fact that this is a very hot war now

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Speaker 5: in Israel, I think, of course it's possible that Iran

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Speaker 5: is behind some of this. And I think that actually

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Speaker 5: gets to the threats we had. How many Americans killed

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Speaker 5: in the attacks, upwards of thirty at this point in

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Speaker 5: the original October seventh attack, Americans that were held as hostages.

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Speaker 5: That puts responsibility on the American government, and that puts

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Speaker 5: responsibility on the American military, and they are straining ourselves,

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Speaker 5: They're straining the country. They are putting us in a

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Speaker 5: position where it makes the escalation of the conflict more

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Speaker 5: and more dangerous and more and more likely by this

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Speaker 5: sort of cavalier spreading out of troops across the world

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Speaker 5: and particularly across the Middle East, that in times of

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Speaker 5: peace we sort of look the other way, we don't

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Speaker 5: think about it very much, but it's happening, especially because

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Speaker 5: of things like one twenty seven Echo that we don't

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Speaker 5: even think about or talk about on a normal day,

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Speaker 5: And now when a conflict spills over into something serious,

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Speaker 5: it's an incredibly fragile ecosystem that is really teetering on

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Speaker 5: the precipice of something a massive escalation.

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Speaker 6: And to me, that's why one of the most important

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Speaker 6: things that I think Barack Obama did was successfully negotiate

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Speaker 6: the Iran Deal with Russia and with five European countries.

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Speaker 6: The argument that he was making at the time, and

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Speaker 6: he ran over Israel to do it. It was Israel's

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Speaker 6: number one objection to Obama was that he wanted to

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Speaker 6: that he was inking this Iran deal. His argument was,

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Speaker 6: this conflict isn't working. Constantly ratcheting up tensions is only

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Speaker 6: going to lead to dangerous places, and it's also not

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Speaker 6: preventing them from getting a nuclear weapon. So if we

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Speaker 6: bring Iran into the fold, that they show good behavior,

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Speaker 6: reduce support for their proxies, roll back their military nuclear program,

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Speaker 6: and instead, you know, AEI, let in the inspectors to

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Speaker 6: follow their progress of their domestic kind of industrial nuclear capacity.

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Speaker 6: Have Russia involved, have Us involved. It brings them into

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Speaker 6: the fold so that they're less likely than to see

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Speaker 6: benefit in some global or regional conflagration. It's the same

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Speaker 6: reason that getting a ceasefire in Ukraine, getting to a truce,

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Speaker 6: Getting to a truce there is so important because every

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Speaker 6: day that wars go on, every day that tensions are

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Speaker 6: ratcheted up, unpredictable things can happen. I think Iran, there's

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Speaker 6: no evidence that Iron directed the Hamas attack, but the

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Speaker 6: fact that Iran and Hamas are connected then just spirals

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Speaker 6: this into the place we are now. And I think

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Speaker 6: that it is it isn't often reflected upon enough in

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Speaker 6: Washington that people who advocate for a position, like a

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Speaker 6: hard line approach to Iran, like you know, Israel successfully

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Speaker 6: lobbied Trump to withdraw the US from the Iran Deal.

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Speaker 3: So those hardliners got what they wanted.

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Speaker 4: Oh though it wasn't very hard.

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Speaker 5: I mean basically every Republican was opposed to the Iran

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Speaker 5: Nuclear Deal.

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Speaker 4: So it wasn't as though Israel had to push very hard.

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Speaker 6: Oh absolutely, And and Trump wanted to do it because

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Speaker 6: it had Obama's name on it. He hated it was

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Speaker 6: the Obama you know, Iran Nuclear Deal, so he Obama.

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Speaker 6: So he's like, it has it's Obama's thing, I'm going

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Speaker 6: to undo it like that, Like, yes, but it was

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Speaker 6: Israel's number one priority. But yes, it was very easy

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Speaker 6: to convince them to do it. And so he does that.

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Speaker 6: So he got his wish. And then Biden, to his

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Speaker 6: great discredit, did not get the United States back into

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Speaker 6: the Iran Deal. And so I feel like people who

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Speaker 6: got their wish there argued that this was going to

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Speaker 6: be a better step forward, and look where we are.

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Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 6: There needs to be some accountability for if you get

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Speaker 6: to implement and execute your preferred strategy and it blows up,

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Speaker 6: literally blows up, then there should be some.

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Speaker 3: Reflection on that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I may disagree on the point about

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Speaker 5: the deal, but I think you're raising a really important

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Speaker 5: point about how the parallel with Ukraine that like when

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Speaker 5: you have actually other nuclear powers that are attached to

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Speaker 5: proxy wars or attached to conflicts that have become hot wars.

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Speaker 5: We look at just Sheijin Ping and we talked about

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Speaker 5: this personally.

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Speaker 4: I talked about this last week.

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Speaker 5: Chijin Ping and Vladimir Putin were in Beijing last week

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Speaker 5: peacocking and talking about how they're old friends and whatever

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Speaker 5: you think of those two countries, they are allied against

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Speaker 5: the United States and definitely against Israel. They try to

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Speaker 5: sort of say that they're going to be the new

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Speaker 5: peace brokers of the world and they're going to step

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Speaker 5: in and try to mediate these conflicts. They haven't done

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Speaker 5: a great job of that so far. Putin started one

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Speaker 5: of them and invaded Ukraine, and Chijinping has not condemned that. So,

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Speaker 5: you know, the prospects for peace in a world order

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Speaker 5: led by those two I don't think should give anyone

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Speaker 5: much optimism. That said, this is a coalescing of like

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Speaker 5: this is a real coalescing of countries against United States hegemony,

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Speaker 5: and that means that this is even more fragile. That

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Speaker 5: means that you have nuclear powers, you have North Korea, China, Russia, Iran,

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Speaker 5: and the more people you have fanned out across the

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Speaker 5: world on what the authority of one twenty seven echo.

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Speaker 5: It's terrifying and it is so so much more fragile,

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Speaker 5: I think than we realize. I feel like people are

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Speaker 5: recognizing it now. But if something were, if China were

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Speaker 5: to take this opportunity to move on Taiwan and had

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Speaker 5: we saw them in a conflict with the Philippines naval

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Speaker 5: conflict with the Philippines last week. This is These are dominoes,

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Speaker 5: and you don't always know that a domino is the

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Speaker 5: first domino has fallen it until years later when.

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Speaker 4: You look back.

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Speaker 6: And I think it's one of the few good things

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Speaker 6: Obama did on foreign policy. But his argument was this

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Speaker 6: unconditional support for Saudi Arabia, for the United Air members,

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Speaker 6: both of now which want nuclear programs right and Israel,

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Speaker 6: which has a nuclear program, and isolation of Iran is

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Speaker 6: not useful long term for the United States. That it's

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Speaker 6: going that it's just going to lead to conflict. It

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Speaker 6: obviously was working, Yeah, and so they tried to unwind

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Speaker 6: that the Washington Swamp is so dominated by Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 6: UEE Israel and the Republican Party is kind of lockstep

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Speaker 6: with Israel, Saudi Arabia UAE, and so it reverted back

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Speaker 6: to the mean.

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Speaker 3: And here we are what the world about to blow up?

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Speaker 5: Speaking of the world being about to blow up, let's

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Speaker 5: actually pivot here and take a look to look at

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Speaker 5: what John Kirby told White House reporters in a briefing yesterday.

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Speaker 5: He was pushed by one reporter who actually asked him

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Speaker 5: about Barack Obama's medium post saying that the Israeli government

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Speaker 5: had basically not done enough to mitigate the harms to

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Speaker 5: civilians in Gaza. And then she also pushed him on

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Speaker 5: Obama saying that cutting off food, water and electricity in

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Speaker 5: Gaza risked Israel losing global support. Let's take a walk

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Speaker 5: take a look at how John Kirby reacted.

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Speaker 7: President former President Obama shared some of his views about

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Speaker 7: the conflict yesterday. One of the things he said is

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Speaker 7: that the Israelis haven't done enough to avoid killing or

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Speaker 7: injuring civilians as they seek to take out a mosque

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Speaker 7: in Gaza? Does President Biden share that deep?

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Speaker 8: President Biden has since the very beginning of this conversation

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Speaker 8: been talking to the Prime Minister, and we have been

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Speaker 8: talking to Israelis at various levels at the cabinet level

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Speaker 8: and below about what separates us from hamas as two democracies,

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Speaker 8: and that's respect for human life, that's abiding by the

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Speaker 8: law of war, that's by doing everything you can to

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Speaker 8: try to prevent civilian casualties and collateral damage. And that's

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Speaker 8: an active conversation we continue to have with them.

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Speaker 7: President former President Obama shared some of his views about

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Speaker 7: the conflict yesterday. One of the things he said is

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Speaker 7: that the Israelis haven't done enough to avoid killing or

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Speaker 7: injuring civilians as they seek to take out hamasque in Gaza.

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Speaker 4: Does President Biden share that view?

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Speaker 8: President Biden has, since the very beginning of this conversation

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Speaker 8: been talking to the Prime Minister, and we have been

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Speaker 8: talking to Israelis at various levels at the cabinet level

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Speaker 8: and below about what separates us from mos As two democracies,

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Speaker 8: and that's.

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Speaker 4: Respect for human life. That's abiding by the law of war.

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Speaker 8: That's by doing everything you can to try to prevent

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Speaker 8: civilian casualties and collateral damage. And that's an active conversation

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Speaker 8: we continue to have with them.

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Speaker 6: And speaking of those casually numbers, we have those, if

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Speaker 6: we could put up a five, of course, it is

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Speaker 6: rarely casually. Is after most of them civilians from October

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Speaker 6: most and most of them on October seventh, one thousand,

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Speaker 6: four hundred, roughly two hundred hostages still held on the

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Speaker 6: Gaza side of Palestinian authorities saying that seven hundred civilians

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Speaker 6: killed over the last twenty four hours and at least

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Speaker 6: five thousand, seven hundred killed. We don't have a breakdown

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Speaker 6: between civilians and militants there overwhelmingly. If you look at

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Speaker 6: the destruction of the of the of Gaza north to south,

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Speaker 6: you're going to see massive numbers of civilian casualties. The

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Speaker 6: scenes that are coming, the scenes that have come out

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Speaker 6: of October seventh are boggle the mind, and the images

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Speaker 6: that we're seeing out of Gaza boggle the mind.

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Speaker 3: Just absolute hell on earth.

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Speaker 5: Those numbers boggle the boggle the mind. What has happened

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Speaker 5: in such a short period of time.

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Speaker 6: And I think they're undercounting significantly. I hope I'm wrong

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Speaker 6: about that.

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Speaker 5: So you can see where John Kirby is going to

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Speaker 5: increasingly be pressed about this. And I want to read

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Speaker 5: actually from Axios, which is I think kind of reacting

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Speaker 5: to the back and forth yesterday. They don't say they are,

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Speaker 5: but they're reporting this morning, President Biden, despite full throated

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Speaker 5: support for Israel and it's right to strike Amas, has

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Speaker 5: methodically and meticulously delayed the expected invasion of Gaza. US

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Speaker 5: officials tell us that's Axios. Biden dangled high level visits,

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Speaker 5: military support, and public backing to buy time in Gaza.

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Speaker 5: He also made plain that America doesn't want Israel to

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Speaker 5: act impulsively or without considering usque concerns. That's an interesting

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Speaker 5: thing to be leading off Axios's newsletter with Ryan the

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Speaker 5: morning after John Kirby is pressed in such a public

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Speaker 5: way on the fate of so many civilians in Gaza.

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Speaker 6: Right, And if you watch that clip and you understand

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Speaker 6: the dilemma that Kirby and Biden administration and Israel in

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Speaker 6: when it comes to the siege of Gaza, there is yeah,

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Speaker 6: nobody out there who's going to say, you know, what, Yes,

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Speaker 6: it does sound reasonable to cut off food, energy, and

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Speaker 6: water from a population that was two million at the start.

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Speaker 6: Like sure, that's sure, we understand that. From a military perspective. Nobody,

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Speaker 6: it's it's utterly in defensible Israel's argument that they've come

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Speaker 6: up with so far. As well, Hamas has some energy,

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Speaker 6: they have some fuel, and they're using it for rockets. Okay,

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Speaker 6: that's terrible, bad for Hamas, but that's a tiny amount

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Speaker 6: of fuel like that.

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Speaker 3: That is not what we're talking about here.

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Speaker 6: We're talking about the entire enclave being blocked off. We're

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Speaker 6: talking about people because the salination plants are down drinking salty,

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Speaker 6: dirty water. You know, the UN says you need roughly

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Speaker 6: fifteen liters minimal them of water for all purposes hygiene, drinking,

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Speaker 6: et cetera, just for basic survival. The average gusin is

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Speaker 6: down to less than one liter of water a day

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Speaker 6: like one like that, that's that's for everything, start to

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Speaker 6: finish for twenty four hours.

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Speaker 3: You can't survive on that.

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Speaker 6: And there's nobody out there who thinks that there's any

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Speaker 6: kind of military justification for that.

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Speaker 3: It's also just straight up illegal.

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Speaker 6: It's like against international laws of war and so, and

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Speaker 6: it's why I think Obama was you know, Obama didn't

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Speaker 6: talk about apartheid, didn't talk about you know, he just

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Speaker 6: he laid out that that. I think that's why he

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Speaker 6: zeroed in on that, because it's there's just no counter

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Speaker 6: argument to it. That's and that's where Obama likes to

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Speaker 6: go is a place that is kind of comfortable but

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Speaker 6: also critical.

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Speaker 5: Let's actually, I know that we don't like to skip around,

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Speaker 5: but if we could, because it fits so perfectly with

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Speaker 5: what Ryan just said, go to a eight. This is

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Speaker 5: another John Kirby quote that has drawn a lot of

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Speaker 5: criticism from the briefing yesterday.

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Speaker 4: A role AA that would be great war.

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Speaker 8: It is combat, it is bloody, it is ugly, and

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Speaker 8: it's going to be messy and innocent civilians are going

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Speaker 8: to be hurt going forward. I wish I could tell

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Speaker 8: you something different. I wish that that wasn't going to happen.

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Speaker 9: But it is.

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Speaker 8: It is going to happen, and that doesn't make it right,

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Speaker 8: It doesn't make it dismissable. It doesn't mean that we

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Speaker 8: aren't going to still express concerns about that and do

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Speaker 8: everything we can to help the Israelis do everything they

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Speaker 8: can to minimize it. But that's unfortunately the nature of conflict.

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Speaker 6: I don't think we've ever heard comments like that from

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Speaker 6: a White House podium ever in American history. At the

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Speaker 6: very end, he says, obviously, we're going to do what

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Speaker 6: we can to help Israel do what it can to

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Speaker 6: minimize civilian casualties. But if the preceding thirty seconds it's

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Speaker 6: all about how, look, civilian casualties are inevitable. This is war,

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Speaker 6: It's going to happen. And then to say we're going

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Speaker 6: to continue to express concerns about civilian deaths that have

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Speaker 6: not happened yet that we are going to be complicit in,

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Speaker 6: really undermines how concerned you actually are, Like you just

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Speaker 6: can't plausibly and authentically express concerns for something that you're

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Speaker 6: about to do, because if you're really concerned, you could

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Speaker 6: not do it.

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Speaker 3: You could just not.

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Speaker 5: The That's interesting because my reaction to that clip was

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Speaker 5: his honesty.

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Speaker 4: Which I agree with you as unusual.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, is something that especially as journalists, but even as

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Speaker 5: people who are critical of the kind of political establishment

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Speaker 5: we often demand. That's exactly the sort of honesty.

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Speaker 3: I just want different honesty, right, but.

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Speaker 5: I mean, like, I think that's almost commendably honest, because

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Speaker 5: that is at its sort of most basic level, are

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Speaker 5: approached to this, and I mean, he's not wrong about it,

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Speaker 5: like he's reflecting US policy accurately there.

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Speaker 6: And what I've been surprised, I guess, to learn is

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Speaker 6: that some of the pretense that was articulated in past

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Speaker 6: bombing campaigns was more than just pretense. So let's say

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Speaker 6: take May twenty twenty one, when Israel's last bombing Gaza.

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Speaker 6: You know there actually there was, I think there was

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Speaker 6: a bombing the three day bombing campaign in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 6: but the longer bombing campaign twenty twenty one was accompanied

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Speaker 6: by claims that civilian casualties were being minimized. And the

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Speaker 6: number of civilian casualties then compared to now is a

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Speaker 6: fraction of what we're seeing. And so when you remove

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Speaker 6: even the pretense you had, an Israeli top is very

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Speaker 6: defense official said. He said, the goal is damage, not precision.

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Speaker 6: So when you're explicitly on the record saying that you're

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Speaker 6: going you're going for damage and not position that and

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Speaker 6: you're explicitly minimizing your ability to reduce civilian casualties. It

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Speaker 6: turns out that in real life, many real, many more

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Speaker 6: real lives do get snuffed out. Like there is actually

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Speaker 6: a link between the rhetoric. It's not just rhetoric. In

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Speaker 6: other words, like there were some gloves on, we now realize,

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Speaker 6: you know, in hindsight.

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Speaker 3: And we can see that by what we see with

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Speaker 3: the gloves.

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Speaker 5: Off, hamas Is I mean makes it virtually impossible for

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Speaker 5: Israel to exist on a day to day basis with

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Speaker 5: any semblance of peace and security without having obviously, as

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Speaker 5: you know, we find like a fifth of their military

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Speaker 5: budget and an annual basis, although it pales in comparison, and.

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Speaker 6: Speaking of mos this is something I want to ask

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Speaker 6: the general when he gets here. Yea, they have They

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Speaker 6: clearly have invested heavily in missile technology. They yesterday they

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Speaker 6: spent more missiles it feels like than the last couple

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Speaker 6: of weeks to very little effect other than striking fear.

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Speaker 6: They're not killing people that don't and they know something

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Speaker 6: about a lot of the landing in the airfield. Yet

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Speaker 6: they have zero anti aircraft capacity. These F sixteens are

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Speaker 6: flying over Gaza, it's unmolested. Drones are flying over unmolested.

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Speaker 4: It's a great point.

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Speaker 3: How is that possible? To me?

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Speaker 6: It feels like everyone's incentives line up to have gods

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Speaker 6: and civilians suffer. But I want to i'd I'd love

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Speaker 6: to hear the general's take on this. Why has Hamas

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Speaker 6: been unable to develop.

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Speaker 3: Even rudimentary any aircraft?

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Speaker 6: Now, presumably it's a more fixed structure, and so it

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Speaker 6: would be easier to take out immediately like whenever you know,

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Speaker 6: you see, whenever you see wars break out, any aircraft

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Speaker 6: weaponry lasts like a couple of days.

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Speaker 3: So maybe that's what it is.

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Speaker 6: But we'll ask him see what his take is, because

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Speaker 6: obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think that's actually a really important point, and

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Speaker 5: I think actually the point about Hamas is really important too,

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Speaker 5: because there's no Israel has to If Israel wants to

438
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 5: sort of stamp out Hamas, that goal in Gaza, that

439
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 5: goal is I mean without because of the way people

440
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 5: live in Gaza, without harming civilians to the degree that

441
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 5: we're seeing right now, when we have the death counter

442
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 5: up over fifty seven hundred as of right now, that

443
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 5: number is sure to climb because the ground in vision

444
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 5: hasn't even started yet. When you see numbers like that,

445
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 5: and when you look at the reality, I mean, it's

446
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 5: if the United States is saying that we're going to

447
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,959
Speaker 5: help Israel minimize the casualties, and Israel is saying that

448
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 5: we are doing We're not about precision, We're about maximizing damage.

449
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 5: That's a really difficult thing for the White House, especially

450
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 5: because as we started this block, we were talking about

451
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 5: how the US has a presence fanned out across the

452
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 5: Middle East, hundreds of thousands of civilians in Israel, plenty

453
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 5: of civilians, well actually just people stationed in Lebanon.

454
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 4: I forget what the numbers are.

455
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 5: We have it right here from the intercept, eighty nine

456
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 5: US military personnel deployed to Lebanon. All of these different

457
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 5: I mean, this ecosystem is very, very fragile, and it

458
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 5: is you know, when Access is saying Biden is trying

459
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 5: to remind yahoo that US interests need to be sort

460
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 5: of front of his mind when he's making these decisions,

461
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 5: which is also just a strange position for the Israeli government.

462
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 5: There was a great tablet piece over the summer about

463
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 5: how US AID actually harms the Israeli cause because it

464
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 5: puts one hand behind their back, essentially, because now they

465
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 5: have to keep the interest of the US, which has

466
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 5: six hundred thousand people in Israel front of mind and

467
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 5: presence fanned out throughout the Middle East top of mind.

468
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 5: That is, I mean the task of minimizing civilian casualties

469
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 5: in that situation, but also allowing Israel to stamp out

470
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 5: an existential threat.

471
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 4: Good luck and.

472
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 6: The scale of the slaughter is turning the world against

473
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 6: the Israeli assault, and we saw that yesterday with UN

474
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 6: Secretary General Antonio Guterres. We can place some of his

475
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 6: comments that were taken in Israel deeply offensive. Let's roll

476
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 6: Guterras seven.

477
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 10: The relentless bombardment of Gaza by Israeli forces. The level

478
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 10: of civilian casualties and all sale destruction of neighborhoods continue

479
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 10: to mount and are deeply alarming. I mourn and honored

480
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 10: dozen of UN colleagues working for UNDUA, Sadly at least

481
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 10: serty five and counting killed in the bombardment of Gaza.

482
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 9: Over the last two weeks.

483
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 10: I owe to their families my condemnation of these and

484
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 10: many other similar killings. The protection of civilians is paramount

485
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 10: in any armed conflict. Protecting civilians can never mean using

486
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 10: them as human shields. Protection civilians, Protecting civilians does not

487
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 10: mean ordering more than one million people to evacuate to

488
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 10: the suce where there is no shelter, no food, no water,

489
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 10: no medicine, and no fool and then continuing to bomb

490
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 10: the solves itself. I'm deeply concerned about the clear violations

491
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 10: of international humanitarian law that we are witnessing in Gaza.

492
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 6: The Israeli Foreign Ministry reacted extremely harshly to that statement.

493
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 6: But the numbers and the stories that we're seeing out

494
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 6: of there, you know, tell a brutal picture.

495
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 3: If we can put up was it a nine here?

496
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 3: Starting to get something?

497
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 6: You know, the UN reporting forty two percent of Godz's

498
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 6: housing units are damaged or destroyed and one point four

499
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 6: million gozzins, well more than half the population has been

500
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 6: has been displaced. This is that's a statistic that justifies

501
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 6: the entire idea of statistics.

502
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 3: That's just a monstrous number.

503
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 6: If we can put up a ten from my health post,

504
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 6: colleague Phil Lewis, quoting the AP, the World Health Organization

505
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 6: says nearly two thirds of Gaz's health facilities have ceased functioning,

506
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 6: and I just think that those numbers are difficult for

507
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 6: us to absorb. Over here, look what that looks and

508
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 6: feels like. And I think it helps to explain why

509
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 6: somebody like Antonio Guterrez would be willing to go out

510
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 6: on what seems to us like a limb and be

511
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 6: so heavily critical despite the politics over at the UN.

512
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 4: I'm sure it didn't surprise.

513
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 5: There's really delegation too much, But I will say I

514
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 5: also think it's hard for us to understand, to overhear

515
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 5: the task of I mean, virtually everyone in the United

516
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 5: States after October seventh said and worldwide said, Israel has

517
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 5: a right to respond because there cannot be any type

518
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 5: of incentive for people, no matter what you actually think

519
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 5: of what's happening in Gaza, for the humanitarian or the

520
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 5: crimes against humanity that occurred in Israel on October seventh,

521
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 5: there cannot be an incentive for that, and so Israel

522
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 5: has a right to respond. Now, how Israel responds is

523
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 5: obviously where there's disagreement, massive disagreement that spans the full spectrum,

524
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 5: but also just about everybody in the world stage looks

525
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 5: and says Israel's response should minimize civilian casualties. Well, what

526
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 5: does that mean? Does that mean you stop at fifty

527
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 5: seven hundred? I mean, it's just such a gross thing

528
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 5: to even have to talk or think about. But there

529
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 5: is a I mean, there is a real challenge at

530
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 5: a being able to respond and be doing it in

531
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 5: you know, a tiny, tiny area like Gaza that is

532
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 5: so densely packed with civilians, where you have a group

533
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 5: like AMAS that, even if it's overstated, does sometimes even

534
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 5: just for space reasons, whether it's for space reasons or

535
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 5: much worse reasons, which I tend to side with. The

536
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 5: latter has military facilities and planning places and puts missiles

537
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 5: in civilian areas. That just makes it incredibly difficult to

538
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 5: have any kind of response that also minimizes civilian deaths.

539
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 5: So all that is to say this is and the

540
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 5: Israeli government put out video yesterday of some of the

541
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 5: people who are implicated in those crimes against humanity in

542
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 5: Israel talking about how mad they are at Hamas leadership

543
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 5: for putting the people of Gaza in the situation that

544
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 5: they're in. And I don't take very seriously what they're saying,

545
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 5: but I do think there's truth to the fact that

546
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 5: Hamas put the people of Gaza in just an ugly

547
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:28,239
Speaker 5: and unbelievable situation, because from Israel's perspective, there does have

548
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 5: to be some kind of response. That does not mean

549
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 5: that Israel should not be prosecuted prosecuting this war. In

550
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 5: the scope of history, would be very unusual to supply

551
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 5: your enemies with food and water, et cetera, et cetera.

552
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 5: But it is morally what Israel should be doing this situation,

553
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 5: and they should be. They absolutely should be minimizing the

554
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 5: harm and the suffering of all of these civilians, all

555
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 5: of the children in Gaza.

556
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 4: It's not easy, though, and.

557
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 6: It makes our own political problems pale in comparison. Let's

558
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 6: take a look at the journey of Tom Emmer. Anyway, yesterday,

559
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 6: if we can put up B one, we're going to

560
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 6: talk about the speaker fight, which might resolve itself today.

561
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 6: So yesterday morning, and this is Jake Sherman, you know,

562
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 6: reporting that Tom Emmer had dropped out of the race

563
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 6: for speaker yesterday morning. As we reported here, tom Emmer

564
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 6: was the speaker designate. If you took a long nap

565
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 6: by the time you woke up.

566
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: He was done. He put up put up B two here.

567
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 3: He had, you know what, more than twenty no votes.

568
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 6: He didn't crack. He didn't crack two hundred. He needed

569
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 6: two seventeen on the floor. It was clear he wasn't

570
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 6: going to get there if you can put up B three.

571
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 6: The reason it became clear that he wasn't going to

572
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 6: get there was that Donald J.

573
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 3: Trump, despite a slobberry.

574
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 6: Phone call from Tom Emmer, put out just an utterly

575
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 6: brutal I have many wonderful friends wanting to be Speaker

576
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 6: of the House, and some are truly great warriors. Rhino

577
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 6: Tom Emmer, who I do not know well, is not

578
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 6: one of them.

579
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 3: You never respected the power of a Trump endorsement. Anyway.

580
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 6: It's a delightful truth social from Trump as always, and

581
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 6: his operation texted it out to everybody in the house,

582
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 6: and within moments dom Emmer said, all right, forget this,

583
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 6: I'm out of here.

584
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 3: He was the whip.

585
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 6: Maybe he still is technically the whip, and so he

586
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 6: knows how to count votes.

587
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 3: He knows he didn't have it.

588
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 6: So they went back to the drawing board and they

589
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 6: emerge with Mike Johnson.

590
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 4: It sounds fake right.

591
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,719
Speaker 6: I know we're going to take their word for the

592
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 6: fact that Mike Johnson is a Republican member.

593
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 5: Of Congress, is a is a human American man.

594
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 6: But you don't have to be a Republican member of

595
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 6: Congress to be Speak of the House. So whatever, So

596
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 6: they picked Mike Johnson, so gates himself. You know who

597
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 6: lit this fire is saying that Mike Johnson is good

598
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 6: enough to doubt and so tell us. So it looks

599
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 6: like looks like we might get a speaker Mike Johnson. So, Emily,

600
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 6: what do you tell us about Speaker John's Speaker designate Johnson?

601
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 5: You know, it's I can confirm that he is a

602
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 5: Republican member of Congress and a human American man. Great

603
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 5: start for Mike Johnson. He's from Louisiana. I think he

604
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 5: was actually just selected in twenty seventeen. He's the vice

605
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 5: chair of the House GOP Conference. So he's in kind

606
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 5: of a leadership position, although sort of a to the

607
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 5: extent you can say back bench leadership position.

608
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 4: That's kind of where he is.

609
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 5: He's a very like he's actually as kind of archetypical

610
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 5: as he sounds, right, like a boring Republican middle aged

611
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 5: white guy to you know, use the cartoon.

612
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 6: Well, Emmer ran an insurance company. Could it be better

613
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 6: than that?

614
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 4: Let's see, could it be better than Emmer?

615
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 5: Because Emma actually, and I'm going to like, you guys

616
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 5: are gonna get funny.

617
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: He was almost an astronaut or something.

618
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 4: You guys are gonna get annoyed today.

619
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 5: But I really I'm gonna skip ahead while we're talking

620
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 5: about archetypical Republicans. If we could go to B six,

621
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 5: this is actually how Emmer could maybe out run Mike

622
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 5: Johnson and the sort of cartoonishly republican, middle aged white

623
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 5: guy race. He got stuck on upside down on a

624
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 5: zoom call.

625
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 11: Today's gig economy sprung out from the last recession. It

626
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 11: offers a job to anyone who wants. During COVID nineteen,

627
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 11: we must make sure that our nation's sole proprietors and

628
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 11: the smallest of small businesses received timely.

629
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 4: Gentlemen, suspend. I'm sorry, mister Emmer, Yes, are you okay?

630
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 9: I am you're upside down, Tom.

631
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 11: I don't know how to fix that.

632
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 4: And get it right side up?

633
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 9: What's that cat? Yeah, Madam charritt? At is this a metaphor.

634
00:34:58,960 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 9: I don't know, but he's.

635
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 5: They couldn't even figure out why he was upside down,

636
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 5: what it meant that he was upside down, let alone

637
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 5: him figuring out how to not be upside down. Mike Johnson,

638
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 5: I believe, is slightly younger than Tom Emmer. I don't

639
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 5: know exactly how much younger. I think he is younger,

640
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 5: but all that is to say he's a very let's

641
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 5: say he's a well respected kind of social conservative. He's

642
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 5: the type of guy who'd speak at sea pack, which

643
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 5: is sort of unusual.

644
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 6: What we mean by that hardcore like pro life guy. Yep,

645
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 6: anti gay marriage guy. Yeah, like that whole thing.

646
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 3: So you.

647
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 6: Scratch the Republican Conference, you're going to get a lot

648
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 6: of those people. You know, they've done a decent job

649
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 6: of kind of just having the Supreme Court take the

650
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 6: lead on that stuff. But it looks like with the

651
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 6: elevation of Mike Johnson, some of that is coming to

652
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 6: the fore.

653
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 5: And again, this is where Tom Emmor yesterday, I think

654
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 5: you were following some of this. I think some of

655
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 5: it was overstated, but there was a storyline that Tom

656
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 5: Emmer's support for same sex marriage was a sticking point

657
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 5: for some of the hardcore of Republicans that wouldn't give me.

658
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 6: There was one guy who told them that, or something

659
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 6: right who told him. I forget who somebody told them

660
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 6: that's why I'm not voting for you.

661
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 5: Yes, it became like a minor subplot. And when you

662
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 5: have one or two people in a situation like this

663
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 5: with the math, for Republicans, that's like an issue, even

664
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 5: though it wouldn't be if they had a bigger margin,

665
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 5: it's a real issue. And so actually, I think what's happened,

666
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 5: what we're seeing happen here, is that they have exhausted

667
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 5: the time they're comfortable with. They already did not have

668
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 5: enough time to do what they need to do to

669
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 5: fund the government going into December. Because they don't want

670
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 5: to do omnibuses, they want to do single subject bills.

671
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 5: They want to fund the government that way, they can't

672
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 5: really agree on any of those funding levels they actually have.

673
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 5: You know, as kind of funny as I think it

674
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 5: is to see the House that doesn't do anything good,

675
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 5: hasn't done anything good in a while, and chaos, they

676
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 5: actually do have things to do.

677
00:36:58,600 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 4: By the end of the year.

678
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 5: If we want to avoid a government shutdown if they

679
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 5: want to avoid a government shutdown. There are some serious

680
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 5: things that do need funding, and I think they realized

681
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 5: that they had exhausted all their options. It actually looked

682
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 5: for about twenty four hours, like Byron Donalds, who got

683
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 5: the backing of Freedom Coccus people, and we're suddenly really

684
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 5: excited about Byron Donalds. I like Byron Donald's. They got

685
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 5: behind him briefly the conservative movement started aligning behind Byron Donalds.

686
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 5: But I would say Mike Johnson is maybe like a

687
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 5: more like milk toast, kind of boring version of some

688
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 5: of those flamethrowers in that he's not like on CNN

689
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 5: like Byron Donald's always on the CNN yelling at people

690
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 5: and it's relatively funny. But Mike Johnson isn't going to

691
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 5: be that guy. He might decide to be that guy.

692
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 5: But Republicans also sort of realized that being Speaker of

693
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 5: the House kind of ruins your career. They don't necessarily

694
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 5: want to put their rising stars in the Speaker of

695
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 5: the House position because you end up having to compromise

696
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 5: in ways that are going to really piss off the

697
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 5: and denigrate your fund raising ability, under cut your fundraising ability,

698
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 5: I should say so he's sort of a run of

699
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 5: the mill, hardcore Republican, which is.

700
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 6: A share of the Republican Study Group, which is the

701
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 6: kind of big block of conservative Republicans. And speaker I

702
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 6: think is cool to have on your Wikipedia, especially if

703
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 6: your name is Mike Johnson Mike j because it's going

704
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 6: to be in a parenthesis the speaker speak.

705
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 3: How much a portrait, right, It's got to.

706
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 6: Be hundreds of Mike Johnson's Wikipedia, so it's hard to

707
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 6: hard to distinguish yourself just as a member of Congress. Yes,

708
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 6: so if you're speaker, that helps. It got so bad

709
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 6: if we put up before. Kevin McCarthy thought he briefly

710
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 6: had a path back in he was floating an idea

711
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 6: where he would be a speaker and Jim Jordan would

712
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 6: be assistant speaker, which is funny because like there's already

713
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 6: that title already exists. It's called Majority leader. Although they

714
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:55,240
Speaker 6: did actually create an assistant speaker ship for Jim Clyburn

715
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 6: in the House back in I think twenty nineteen. No, no,

716
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 6: it would be when they got bumped out of the

717
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 6: majority because you get fewer leadership posts in the minority.

718
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 3: Than you do in the majority twenty fifth.

719
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, and so nobody wanted to nobody wanted to bump

720
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 6: cly burn out, so they kind of made a new

721
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 6: position that allowed.

722
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 3: Him to stay in.

723
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 6: But that would be weird, like doeses Jordan go to

724
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 6: every White House meeting when the speaker's called over?

725
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 4: Yeap?

726
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 6: Like would have been funny, but looks like, you know,

727
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 6: Mike Johnson might have it.

728
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, So that's the thing.

729
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 5: It feels like what's happened is they've they think they've

730
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 5: exhausted the clock.

731
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 4: They've run out the clock to.

732
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 5: The point where, uh, they are kind of itching to

733
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 5: get back to business to do what they want to do,

734
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 5: and they're also realizing the public is looking at them

735
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 5: and laughing. I think there was a brief moment where

736
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 5: you know, nobody on a regular basis, like your average

737
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,479
Speaker 5: American doesn't know who or really care that much who's

738
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 5: the Speaker of the House. And I don't think they

739
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 5: necessarily should. But at a certain point, when you're going

740
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 5: through what he's like the fourth guy to get votes

741
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 5: in the conference, like, it's starting to just look completely

742
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 5: ridiculous that they have they're getting the votes in the conference,

743
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 5: private votes, and then when you go to the floor,

744
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 5: they can't hit the two seventeen mark.

745
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 4: Like it's just and I think stupid.

746
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 6: I think all the talk of Democrats being willing to

747
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 6: help and some Republicans beginning to entertain that prospect took

748
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 6: away some of the leverage of the Crazy eights.

749
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 3: As McCarthy calls the Gates.

750
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 6: Crewe said like, okay, because if we keep holding the

751
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 6: line here, we can keep holding the line, but we're

752
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 6: not going to get Mike Johnson. You know, we're going

753
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,479
Speaker 6: to get whatever you know, whoever gottheimer wants to pluck

754
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 6: out of yes, like the no labels problem solvers thing.

755
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 5: Right, they realized it was giving ammunition to the Centrists,

756
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 5: and the more ammunition they give the Centrists in the

757
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 5: court of public opinion, it was more like more and

758
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 5: more likely that there was going to be a deal

759
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 5: struck with Democrats that was really bad for them, which

760
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 5: was always a possibility. And you know, Gates knew that.

761
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 5: And if Gates like this is actually kind of a

762
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 5: win for Gates because he's you know, when he did this,

763
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 5: the likelihood that they were going to get someone much

764
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 5: worse than Kevin McCarthy from a Freedom Caucus perspective, was

765
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 5: really high because who could step into that role. Steve Scalise,

766
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 5: Tom Emmer, those were the big names. Like Emmer was

767
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 5: one of the biggest names, because people in the Freedom

768
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 5: Caucus thought that he had brokeered some compromises that were

769
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 5: good for them and some deals that were good for

770
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 5: them kind of behind the scenes over the course of

771
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 5: this last Congress. That said, he still is very business friendly,

772
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 5: very establishment friendly, in a way that wouldn't always go

773
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 5: well for them.

774
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 4: And so when Gates got rid.

775
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 5: Of McCarthy, McCarthy was one of the few people, as

776
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 5: we've talked about many times, that was willing and had

777
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 5: good relationships with the Freedom Caucus and was willing to

778
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 5: listen to them. Mike Johnson is someone who the Freedom

779
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 5: Caucus should be pretty happy with a Speaker of the House.

780
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 5: I think it's unusual that you have somebody that is

781
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 5: on such good terms with the conservative movement that's in

782
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 5: a position of Republican leadership. So that's kind of a

783
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 5: win for Matt Gates, even though you know, do I

784
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 5: care that much that he threw Congress into chaos for

785
00:41:59,120 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 5: the last couple of weeks.

786
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 4: Honestly, not really.

787
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:01,919
Speaker 3: Nobody really does.

788
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 6: I mean, so, all of this is still at the

789
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,919
Speaker 6: stage of maneuvering because it hasn't resulted.

790
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 3: In policy yet.

791
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 6: But would you say that this power play ended up

792
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 6: being ultimately to the power benefit of the right in

793
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 6: the House or not so much?

794
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 3: Or is it too early to tell.

795
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 5: I think it'll depend on how the Johnson speakership goes,

796
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 5: and I am assuming I think it might take them

797
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 5: a couple of votes today. I'm assuming that they have,

798
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 5: you know, run to the end of their line here.

799
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 5: I don't know that for sure. It could still go

800
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 5: either way. They don't really know, But I do think

801
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 5: this is the most likely that they will have a

802
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 5: speaker by the end of the day of any of

803
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,479
Speaker 5: the previous people who've made it out of conference. So again,

804
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 5: could take a couple of votes today. They don't know

805
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 5: at this point, and that's very clear. So but I

806
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 5: would I would say it's more likely than it has

807
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 5: been in the other situations that they leave today with

808
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 5: the Speaker of the House.

809
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 6: All right, let's move on to one of the other

810
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 6: circuses down in Georgia. Another one of President Donald Trump's

811
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 6: alleged co conspirators in the Rico case down in Georgia,

812
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 6: where Trump is accused of trying to go out and

813
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 6: find me eleven thousand votes and flip the election, and

814
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 6: we'll create some fake electors. His attorney, Jenna Ellis, pleaded

815
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 6: guilty in rather dramatic fashion to a much lesser charge,

816
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 6: which suggests that she's ready to cooperate at a trial.

817
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 3: Let's play.

818
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 6: Jenna ellis here speaking to the judge.

819
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 12: Thank your honor for the opportunity to address the court.

820
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 12: As an attorney who is also a Christian. I take

821
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 12: my responsibilities as a lawyer very seriously, and I endeavored

822
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 12: to be a person of sound, moral and ethical character

823
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 12: in all of my dealings. In the wake of the

824
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 12: twenty twenty presidential election, I believed that challenging the results

825
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 12: on behalf of President Trump should be pursued in a

826
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 12: just and legal way. I endeavored to represent my client

827
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 12: to the best of my ability. I relied on others,

828
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 12: including lawyers with many more years of experience than I,

829
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 12: to provide me with true and reliable information, especially since

830
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 12: my role involved a speaking to the media and to

831
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 12: legislators in various states. What I did not do but

832
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 12: should have done. Your honor was to make sure that

833
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 12: the facts the other lawyers alleged to be true were

834
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 12: in fact true. In the frenetic pace of attempting to

835
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 12: raise challenges to the election in several states, including Georgia,

836
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 12: I failed to do my due diligence. I believe in

837
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 12: and I value election integrity. If I knew then what

838
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 12: I know now, I would have declined to represent Donald

839
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 12: Trump in these post election challenges. I look back on

840
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 12: this whole experience with deep remorse.

841
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 6: Can and put up the next element. She's basically charged

842
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 6: with aiding and abetting false statements and writings. Conditions of

843
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 6: the plea agreement NBC News include the requirements she served

844
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 6: five years of probation. I hope that's supervised for her sake.

845
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 6: I've been on supervised probation.

846
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 3: It sucks.

847
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 6: Pay five thousand dollars of restitution to the Georgia Secretary

848
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 6: of State, and testify at hearings or trials in the case.

849
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 4: I'm trying to move past that. You were on supervised previation.

850
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 3: It sucked.

851
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 6: I don't recommend it. They treat you like total garbage.

852
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 6: To take drug tests, cost you money for the privilege

853
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 6: it's unpleasant.

854
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 5: That sounds unpleasant sometimes I just learned so much of

855
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 5: your unexpected times. But you know, Jenna Ellis, so to

856
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 5: Ryan's point, also required to complete one hundred hours of

857
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 5: community service and write an apology letter to the citizens

858
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 5: of Georgia. She also agreed to provide any request of

859
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 5: documents or evidence, not post about the case central social media,

860
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 5: and not have any communication with any witnesses or the

861
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 5: media until the case has been closed. Now, we do

862
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 5: have another element that sort of looks back on it,

863
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 5: sort of puts together. This is from I think the

864
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 5: Republican Accountability Project or Accountable GOP something like that.

865
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 4: It's the Twitter handle.

866
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 5: They spliced together videos of Jenna Ellis from twenty twenty

867
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 5: with Jenna Ellis just yesterday.

868
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 4: Let's take a look at.

869
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: That strikeforce team that is working on behalf of the

870
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: president and the campaign to make sure that our constitution

871
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: is protected. We are a nation of rules. All of

872
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: your fake news headlines are dancing around the merits of

873
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: this case and are trying to delegitimize what we are

874
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: doing here. Let me be very clear that our objective

875
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: is to make sure to preserve and protect election integrity.

876
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 9: What is the point of all this.

877
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: Well, the point of this, of course, is to get

878
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: to fair and accurate results. Because the election was stolen

879
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 1: in President Trump won by a landslide. We knew already

880
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 1: that the election results in at least five of the

881
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 1: swing states were irredeemably compromised. So we already have sufficient

882
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:59,479
Speaker 1: evidence for these states to decertify their electoral result. Your

883
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: question and is fundamentally flawed. When you're asking where is

884
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 1: the evidence? You clearly don't understand the legal process. What

885
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: we have asked for in the court is to not

886
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 1: have the certification of false results.

887
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 5: I think it's actually easy to watch the clip of

888
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 5: her yesterday and have sympathy, and I'm not saying that's

889
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 5: entirely unwarranted.

890
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 4: When I see that, I think good for Jenna Allis.

891
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 5: I actually wish a lot of people that have sort

892
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 5: of come into Trump's orbit and been poisoned or just

893
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 5: compromised in the frenzy of Republican politics in the last

894
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 5: few years would come out and kind of explain how

895
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 5: they got sucked into all of this and how seemingly

896
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,439
Speaker 5: reasonable people, I mean a lot of folks who lived

897
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 5: in New York City under Rudy Giuliani do not recognize

898
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 5: I mean, whatever people originally thought about him, they don't

899
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,760
Speaker 5: recognize the Rudy Giuliani that's become a close Trump ally

900
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 5: from the Rudy Giuliani is when he was mayor of

901
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 5: New York City. And wonder, you know, how is it

902
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 5: that people who are seemingly intelli, reasonable, normal successful people

903
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 5: come out and say things like in that last clip,

904
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 5: one that stuck out to me was Jenna Alis saying

905
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 5: President Trump won in a landslide.

906
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 4: That I think it is.

907
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 5: Almost impossible to understate to emphasize how seriously it changed

908
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 5: the country in twenty twenty and will have an effect

909
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 5: on the country for years and years to come. Because

910
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 5: the trust deficit there, people like Jenna Ellis were being

911
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 5: told and she played a huge role in this because

912
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,720
Speaker 5: she was on TV saying Donald Trump won in a landslide,

913
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 5: and people around the country look at that and say,

914
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 5: this is an attorney for the President of the United

915
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 5: States who has information that must.

916
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 4: Be pretty good because she's.

917
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 5: An attorney for the President of the United States that

918
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 5: is telling her that he won in a landslide. That's

919
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 5: exactly how you get people sacking the Capitol because they

920
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 5: think that the election is being stolen, a landslide election

921
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 5: is being stolen out from under their noses. And honestly,

922
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 5: when they're being told that by an attorney for the

923
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 5: president who is so confident she's saying it on television,

924
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 5: that responsibility. I mean, she she should be crying when

925
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 5: she reflects on it, because it is so tragic the

926
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 5: way that people were misled by. And she's passing the

927
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 5: buck to other attorneys right now, and I think that's,

928
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 5: you know, again, I don't know what the truth is

929
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 5: to that, but she's she obviously feels badly for doing it,

930
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 5: I guess. I mean, maybe those are crocodile tears, but.

931
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 3: Man seem pretty real.

932
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,399
Speaker 5: And maybe she was getting bad information from I don't

933
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 5: doubt that someone was getting bad information from Sidney Powell

934
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 5: or Rudy Giuliani in twenty twenty. But even she is

935
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 5: saying that she failed to do her due diligence, and

936
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 5: that is for damn.

937
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 3: Sure, right.

938
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 6: And some of it is a little bit of hubris

939
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 6: and youth in the sense that I think it's true

940
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,839
Speaker 6: that Trump had run through so many attorneys on dred

941
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,479
Speaker 6: percent that he's got an inexperienced young woman who's who's

942
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 6: kind of easy to bully and push around by some

943
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 6: of the more senior attorneys. And maybe it's youth and

944
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 6: hubris that doesn't allow her to ask the question of

945
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 6: I have so little experience, what on earth am I

946
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 6: doing in this incredibly pivotal role advising a president of

947
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 6: the United States who's trying to overturn an election, Like

948
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 6: it's not my skills, background genius that got me here,

949
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 6: nobody else would do this. And then to ask yourself, well,

950
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 6: why will know why would nobody.

951
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 3: Else do this?

952
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 6: Eggs He doesn't pay them be because they looked at

953
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 6: it and they're like, the facts are not on your

954
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 6: side here. And you know, one of the most wonderful

955
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 6: things that the United States kind of has given to

956
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 6: the world is the peaceful transfer of power. We've we've

957
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,439
Speaker 6: delivered a lot of pain to the world, but that

958
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 6: the transfer of power over thousands of years has been

959
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 6: a place where so many people have died just for

960
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 6: the pursuit of vanity and power by different factions, and

961
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 6: to have developed for hundreds of years away to transfer

962
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 6: that power from one side to another, from one faction

963
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 6: to another without people dying.

964
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 13: Is is.

965
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 6: An innovation that we just can't kind of allow to

966
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 6: just slide away because one guy didn't like the results

967
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 6: of the of the election that leads to that transfer

968
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 6: of power, and so you try to undermine that, you

969
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 6: come for the king and you miss, You're going to

970
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 6: get a five thousand dollars fine to the Georgia Secretary

971
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:18,879
Speaker 6: of State.

972
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 5: And what she's doing there is not quibbling with the

973
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 5: constitutionality of Pennsylvania's mail in voting laws. Right she's saying

974
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 5: Donald Trump won a landslide, and Sydney Powell was out

975
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,479
Speaker 5: talking about dominion voting machines. And by the way, while

976
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 5: all of this is happening, Mark Zuckerberg is steering millions

977
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 5: of dollars into a part of an electioneering project that

978
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 5: people behind it actually told Time Magazine was like they

979
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 5: essentially Molly Ball wrote a piece basically being like, this

980
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 5: was a conspiracy, but it was a good one.

981
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 4: To quote rig the election.

982
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,479
Speaker 5: So while you're talking about dominion voting machines and Donald

983
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 5: Trump winning in a landslide, there are actually serious questions

984
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 5: about money and politics and money and elections being raised,

985
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,760
Speaker 5: and nobody is talking about them. Anymore, because Jenna Ellis

986
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,240
Speaker 5: was saying Donald Trump won in a landslide. Just really quickly,

987
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 5: before we get to Mark Baddles, I'll read Jonathan Turley.

988
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 5: He said Ellis is the type of plead that tends

989
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 5: to concentrate the mind, and Turtley has been generally favorable

990
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 5: to Trump. He's George Washing University law professor, hardly like

991
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 5: a creature of the conservative movement, but somebody who has

992
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 5: kind of come to Trump's defense in some of these

993
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 5: cases and talking about how their lawfair. Powell pleaded to

994
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 5: relatively minor charges. So she pleaded, as people remember last week,

995
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 5: involving unauthorized access to voting machines and areas. Those charges

996
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 5: tend to be easy to prove. It is not clear

997
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 5: if she would tie Trump to a conspiracy or racketeering.

998
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 5: Ellis pleaded guilty to false statements that could conceivably implicate

999
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 5: the president if she claims that he was aware of

1000
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 5: the falsity and facilitated the crime. Moreover, Ellis recently broke

1001
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 5: with Trump. She called him a malignant narcissist who cannot

1002
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 5: admit mistakes and said she would never vote for him again. Meanwhile,

1003
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 5: we can put elm of four. He four up on

1004
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 5: the screen. Just yesterday, ABC News reported that Donald Trump's

1005
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 5: ex chief of staff, as all of this was going down,

1006
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,280
Speaker 5: Mark Meadows, was granted immunity and told the Special Council

1007
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 5: that he warned Donald Trump about twenty twenty election claims. Now,

1008
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 5: this report says Meadows quote repeatedly told Trump in the

1009
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 5: weeks after the twenty twenty election that allegations of significant

1010
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 5: voting fraud were baseless and that Trump had been quote

1011
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 5: dishonest with his quick claim of victory right after the

1012
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 5: polls closed. So to Turley's point about Ellis potentially implicating

1013
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 5: Donald Trump in this conspiracy that Fanny Willis has charged

1014
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 5: him with. Fannie Willis has charged him with. That is

1015
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 5: now a position Mark Meadows reportedly is in. I think

1016
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 5: the story has been questioned by people close to Meadows.

1017
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 5: I think they're saying that it's not necessarily true.

1018
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:40,919
Speaker 4: But we'll see.

1019
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 3: He's going to testify to it anyway.

1020
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 4: That's the thing.

1021
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 3: What are people saying is true?

1022
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,439
Speaker 6: How do you mean so you said that people close

1023
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 6: to Trump don't think Meadows his claim is true.

1024
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 5: I think it's people close to Meadows have said this

1025
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 5: story is not necessarily accurate, and that could mean different

1026
00:53:58,440 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 5: than interesting.

1027
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 3: I see, I see.

1028
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, and again I remember when we were going through

1029
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 5: the Rico indictment out of Georgia. They're one of the

1030
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 5: unfortunate things about it is that a lot of the

1031
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 5: conspiracy charges against people like Jenna Ellis was obviously law

1032
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 5: her and was obviously ridiculous. But then there were kernels

1033
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 5: in that lawsuit. There were just like, it was like

1034
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 5: two or three of them where Willis shows that people

1035
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 5: like Ellis, I don't remember if she was specifically one

1036
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 5: of them, but people in Trump's legal circle, in Trump himself,

1037
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 5: there were a couple of instances where they were obviously

1038
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 5: spreading things they knew that were not true. Right, And

1039
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 5: if that had just been like the tight indictment instead

1040
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 5: of like conspiracy because they booked a conference room and

1041
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 5: whatever else, man, that would be really devastating. But maybe

1042
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 5: it's actually maybe that's how they maybe they did that

1043
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 5: intentionally to get people like Ellis to flip by just

1044
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 5: flooding the zone with different charges and medals too.

1045
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 6: So moving over to the Senate side, Progressive senators and

1046
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 6: House members have been under a lot of pres sure from

1047
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 6: supporters of Palestinian rights lately to back a ceasefire in Gaza.

1048
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 3: If we can put up this first element here.

1049
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 6: It began with nearly three hundred Bernie Sanders alumni calling

1050
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 6: on the Center to back a ceasefire in Gaz. It

1051
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 6: is now well over three hundred and thirty former staff

1052
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 6: members for Bernie Sanders congressional offices and his presidential campaign.

1053
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 6: So in the letter sent Tuesday, which is provided to

1054
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 6: the Intercept, former staffers ask Sanders to introduce a Senate

1055
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 6: side companion to the ceasefire now resolution in the House

1056
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 6: to support an end to US funding quote for war

1057
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 6: crimes against the Palestinian people, the expansion of settlements and

1058
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 6: the occupation of Palestinian lands unquote, and to support an

1059
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 6: end to the blockade of Gaza. That the letter rights,

1060
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,399
Speaker 6: President Biden clearly values your council, as is shown by

1061
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 6: the way as you've managed to shape the outcomes of

1062
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 6: this presidency, The staffers wrote, we urge you to make

1063
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 6: it clear what is at stake in this crisis politically, morally,

1064
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 6: and strategically. They also released a video it's up on

1065
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 6: my Twitter feed. I don't know if we I don't

1066
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 6: think we have the video here, is that right that

1067
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 6: has a bunch of the staffers directing comments directly to

1068
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 6: Bernie Sanders, who has called for kind of the bombs

1069
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 6: to stop. On all side, which is a lot of

1070
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 6: people like that's close enough to a cease fire, and

1071
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 6: it does that is that is saying stop firing, would

1072
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 6: stop and see the same thing. What they're saying is

1073
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 6: introduce a Senate resolution so that there's something to organize

1074
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 6: around the House has a resolution that people can you know,

1075
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 6: the members of the House can sign on to. The

1076
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 6: Senate does not have one, saying Bernie Sanders could be

1077
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:39,919
Speaker 6: the one to put that in. On the other side

1078
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 6: of the progressive wing of the in the Senate, you've

1079
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 6: got John Fetterman, who has been one of the kind

1080
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 6: of most outspoken, unconditional supporters of Israel's war, Israel's war

1081
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 6: on Gaza since since it began here. He is on

1082
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 6: at a pod Save America event recently.

1083
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 14: You know. So it's to remember that Hamas doesn't want peace,

1084
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 14: he doesn't want to be negotiated with or I mean,

1085
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 14: and you know they massacred you know, you innocent children, women,

1086
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 14: and now they have over two hundred hostages with him

1087
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 14: right now as well too. So I really believe that

1088
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 14: I'm always going to decide to stand on the side

1089
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 14: of Israel, you know, in this place.

1090
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 6: So one of the things that Vetterman's critics have pointed

1091
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 6: out is that it's so and we can go back

1092
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 6: to the primary that he had that he had last cycle.

1093
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 6: He worked very closely with DMFI Democratic Majority for Israel

1094
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 6: on his Israel position paper, Like he reached out to them,

1095
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 6: like the Jewish Insider has reported this, I've done some

1096
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 6: reporting on this.

1097
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 3: Reached out to them, said he here's you know, we'd

1098
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 3: like to hear from you.

1099
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 6: They so they had a meeting, then they constructed an

1100
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 6: Israel Palestine policy platform. Send it back to DMFI. DMFI

1101
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 6: said this is pretty good. And they've said this all right,

1102
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 6: said this is pretty good. Here are the changes we'd

1103
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 6: like to see. Kicked it back to Fetterman campaign. He's like,

1104
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 6: we're good to go. And the politics underlying all that

1105
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 6: were that Connor Lamb was a conservative Democrat also running

1106
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 6: for Senate, had been very publicly pleading for super Pac support.

1107
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 6: His brother was out there like explicitly saying like we

1108
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 6: can beat Fetterman. But we don't have the money. We

1109
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 6: need a super pac to come in. Here are the

1110
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 6: messages that you could run, we can win. And APAC

1111
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 6: and DMFI looked at the Fetterment interaction regarding Israel Palace

1112
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 6: and payment said we're not going to back Connor Lamb.

1113
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 6: We're not backing Fetterman, but we're not going to back

1114
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 6: Connor Lamb. So that's the previous context. The future context

1115
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 6: is that Pennsylvania's swing state, and so if APAC decided

1116
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 6: that it wanted to get in in a general election,

1117
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 6: you know, they could certainly do that. And so, according

1118
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 6: to people close to him, this has never been an issue.

1119
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 6: This is not one that's like coming from the heart.

1120
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 6: Like for a lot of people.

1121
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 4: That's interesting because he's a creature of.

1122
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 3: The left right.

1123
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 6: But for a lot of people, including Summer Lee, AOC others,

1124
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 6: they've said publicly growing up Israel Palstin was on an

1125
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 6: issue that we talked about, like in a lot of

1126
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 6: working class communities, Right, you don't think it just doesn't

1127
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 6: it just doesn't come up.

1128
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean that you don't you know, it's just a.

1129
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 5: Foreign policy in general, unless there's unless your community is

1130
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 5: being shipped to war, which is very true in the

1131
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 5: two thousands.

1132
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 3: But yeah, and it's in a little bit of it

1133
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 3: comes through in that video.

1134
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 6: It sounded like for a second he was he was

1135
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 6: referring to Hamas as the like a person, like a

1136
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 6: leader of an organization, rather than the organization itself.

1137
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 3: He said, he and then he said they right, and

1138
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 3: so the people.

1139
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 6: But so the politics of this are if I get

1140
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 6: on the wrong side of it, I could face you know,

1141
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 6: millions and millions of dollars now. Lots of his former

1142
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 6: staff and the Intercept reported this too. If we can

1143
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 6: put up this next element, have have sent a letter

1144
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 6: to Fetterman as well, urging him to support in Israel

1145
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 6: Hamas cease fire. This is kind of part of this

1146
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 6: very unusual bubbling up of dissent from from kind of

1147
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 6: staff members and young people around around the country. You

1148
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 6: also had if we can put up this this next element,

1149
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 6: the political director for Rocanna, He's started on a Monday,

1150
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 6: and it was really how it's started, how it's going.

1151
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 3: It's like professional news.

1152
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 6: I'm joining Rocanna's office two weeks later and puts up

1153
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 6: he tried to get represented Rocanna to sponsor Rashida Talib

1154
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 6: ceesfire now resolution he refused. Personal note, I resigned from

1155
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 6: my job on Monday because of a refusal to call

1156
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,959
Speaker 6: for a ceasefire. I'll be doing everything in my power

1157
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 6: to standing against war. Rocanna gave me a statement saying,

1158
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 6: you know that he's still They're still tight. He's he's

1159
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 6: a passionate support, passionate voice for human rights for Palestine.

1160
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 6: I will continue to call for protecting civilian life, humanitarian aid,

1161
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 6: Conna said, and living up to the standards of the

1162
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 6: Geneva Convention, but would not be signing on to to leave.

1163
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 6: So this is Adam Ramer residing within two weeks of

1164
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 6: starting over at the over in Conna's office.

1165
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 3: So a real kind of would you call it grass roots?

1166
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 6: I don't know, because it's a little higher level than grassroots.

1167
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 6: You've seen some of it over in the State Department.

1168
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 6: There's so much kind of hostility to the State Department policy.

1169
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 6: Blincoln had to have a listening session with dozens of members.

1170
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 6: Josh Paul, a veteran employee as we have up here,

1171
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 6: resigned in protest, putting up a letter explaining that he

1172
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 6: felt like the unconditional support for Israel was trending in

1173
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 6: such a dangerous direction that he couldn't stand by it.

1174
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 6: So it'll be interesting to see how this kind of

1175
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 6: almost generational divide.

1176
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 3: Continues to influence American policy.

1177
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 5: So this is one of the reasons this issue is,

1178
01:01:54,920 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 5: I think politically one of the toughest and most interesting

1179
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 5: issues from political perspective is that elite opinion on Israel

1180
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 5: and Palestine is in and of itself divided, as opposed to,

1181
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 5: you know, elite opinion on medicare for all or elite

1182
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 5: opinion on.

1183
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 4: You know, same sex marriage.

1184
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 5: Like, there's a legitimate divide among elites when it comes

1185
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 5: to Israel and Palestine. And so you see some people

1186
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 5: in positions of power saying, you know, the media is

1187
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 5: pro Israel. We have seen really bad media coverage from

1188
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 5: people who are pro Israel, and we have seen really

1189
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 5: bad media coverage from people who are pro Palestine. We

1190
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 5: have seen really bad arguments from people who are pro Israel,

1191
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 5: and we've seen really bad arguments from powerful people who

1192
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 5: are pro Palestine. And what you just said about the

1193
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 5: generational divide is really interesting because I wonder if that

1194
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 5: actually is where the split and elite opinion comes in,

1195
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 5: because both sides are right that the media is in

1196
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 5: some ways pro Israel and the media is in some

1197
01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 5: ways pro Palestine. Because there are people all sides of

1198
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 5: that divide in elite circles, which is super unusual for

1199
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 5: any of these issues. Like you just don't see that happening,

1200
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 5: Like there are no elites that, for instance, support Donald Trump,

1201
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 5: Like it's so rare. I mean, there are a couple

1202
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 5: billionaires and people in like conservative media that are supportive

1203
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 5: of Donald Trump. But it's we're talking it's like, you know,

1204
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 5: nine oh one ratio, but.

1205
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 4: It's it's more split.

1206
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 5: And it's not wrong to say that there are positions

1207
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:30,439
Speaker 5: in power that are disproportionately pro Israel. But it's also

1208
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 5: not wrong to say there are people in positions of power,

1209
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 5: for instance, the State Department all the way up the

1210
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 5: chain in Rocanna's office, lots of to the point where

1211
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 5: there's enough staffers to put these letters together and to

1212
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 5: really challenge Bernie Sanders. The Biden administration itself is kind

1213
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 5: of split. You had Karine Jean Pierre pivoting. This was

1214
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 5: a super interesting clip from Tuesday. I'm sorry from Monday.

1215
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 5: When she pivoted, she was asked about anti Semitism and

1216
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 5: immediately pivoted to xenophobia against Muslims, and then the White

1217
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 5: House tried to backtrack that. I think that reflects the

1218
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 5: internal kind of ideological tug of war that is in

1219
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 5: all elite circles, not so much on the right, but

1220
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 5: it's especially acute on the left that you have people

1221
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 5: who are very vehemently supportive of Israel and people who

1222
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 5: are arebemently supportive of Palestine, and that is I just

1223
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 5: find that to be very unusual on almost any other issue.

1224
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 6: And I think also when you get these kind of

1225
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 6: less elite communications operations, like with a Caribbean Korean Jean Pierre,

1226
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 6: you end up accidentally getting more honest stuff.

1227
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 3: Out of them.

1228
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 6: Interesting because a good communicator would not have made that

1229
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 6: mistake that KGP made, A good communicator would not have

1230
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 6: made the mistakes that Kirby has been making lately. And

1231
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 6: being honest and just yeah, a little bit too much

1232
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 6: honesty coming through and then you're like, oh, WHOA, your

1233
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 6: job is not to be honest.

1234
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 3: Yes, your job is propaganda.

1235
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 4: Our job is to be as honest as possible.

1236
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 6: Your job, you're supposed to be the propaganda's you're supposed

1237
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 6: to make the sift through this to get to the truth,

1238
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 6: not just kind of accidentally drop it out here.

1239
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

1240
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 6: Another phenomenon developing on the left has been kind of

1241
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 6: cancel culture coming home to roost on a lot of

1242
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 6: the people who have been pushing for support for Palestinian

1243
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 6: rights over the past several weeks.

1244
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:22,920
Speaker 3: That biggest, not.

1245
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 6: The biggest, but I think the moment that got the

1246
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 6: most attention was from man named Michael Eisen If we

1247
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 6: can put this first one up, he posted, I've been

1248
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 6: informed that I'm being replaced as the editor in chief

1249
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 6: of eLife for retweeting an onion piece that calls out

1250
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 6: indifference to the lives of Palestinian civilians.

1251
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 3: What is eLife does not matter? Nobody knows. It's a thing.

1252
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 6: It's apparently a big enough thing that has a lot

1253
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 6: of other employees, because you had other you know, since then,

1254
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,479
Speaker 6: you have had, i'm looking at it now, seventeen point

1255
01:05:57,520 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 6: six million views on this tweet. Even if you believe,

1256
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 6: even if you think Elon Musk is inflating that by

1257
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 6: ten x, it's still been you know, passed around rapidly,

1258
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 6: rapidly and significantly, and you've had a number of other

1259
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 6: E life managers and employees coming out and saying I'm

1260
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 6: stepping down or I reject this, this notion that our

1261
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 6: editor in chief should be fired for posting an onion clip.

1262
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 6: But it's it's not just that you're seeing it all

1263
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 6: over the place. A writer was a sports writer was

1264
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 6: fired for actually you know this one.

1265
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 3: I don't know about that one.

1266
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 4: So good.

1267
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a there's a guy who he said that

1268
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 6: this post sucks slidary with palis sign always because it

1269
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 6: was seventy six ers on top of a seventy six

1270
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 6: ers thing, just saying that, you know, warning the hundreds

1271
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 6: of innocent lives lost there are There are a lot

1272
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 6: of people who kind of cross lines of decency and

1273
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 6: ended up losing jobs over that. And I think that's different, yes,

1274
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 6: than expressing a political opinion and losing your job over

1275
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:07,360
Speaker 6: because everyone says you you don't have a right to

1276
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 6: a job, and okay, you don't. You don't have a

1277
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 6: right to a job, but also we have a right

1278
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 6: to defend you for losing your job over a political statement.

1279
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 6: But if you cross lines of decency, then that's a

1280
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 6: slightly different situation.

1281
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 3: But a lot of these are not that case.

1282
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 6: You had the ninety second Street Why canceled Vietnam win

1283
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 6: event because he signed an open letter supporting palessign That

1284
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 6: was but it was there was nothing offensive in that.

1285
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 6: Michelle Goldberg in The New York Times is a great

1286
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 6: column that picks up on on.

1287
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 3: Wins kind of cancelation. Literally his event was canceled.

1288
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 6: She writes about how Nathan Thrall had a bunch of

1289
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 6: events canceled. He wrote he had written a great book

1290
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 6: called A Day in the Life of Abed Saloma, which

1291
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 6: is about a kind of father who's searching for a

1292
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 6: lost Palestinian boy in the West Bank and uses that

1293
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 6: narrative to write about daily life for Palestinians in the

1294
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 6: West Bank. A bunch of organizations said, we cannot do

1295
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 6: anything that humanized as Palestinians in this moment. So canceled

1296
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 6: a bunch of canceled a bunch of those events. You

1297
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 6: had somebody who was chanting free Palestine.

1298
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is the next element from here.

1299
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 6: On the London Tube. Who is then like suspended from work.

1300
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 6: You had a Canadian member of I don't know if

1301
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,680
Speaker 6: it's Parliament, I don't I don't know. All of the

1302
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 6: Canadis like legal system. But you know, she said she

1303
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 6: stood with Palestine and was centered and kicked out of

1304
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 6: her left wing party, the NDP kicked her out of

1305
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 6: the out of the party, the Kanesset. I think we

1306
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 6: have this next one here, Kanesse suspended a lawmaker this

1307
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:52,639
Speaker 6: israelis for over Casis for criticizing Israel's war on Gaza

1308
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:55,760
Speaker 6: in a in a way that everybody I think would

1309
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 6: ackowledge it within valves. Well obviously not everybody, because the

1310
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 6: Knesset kind of run him out of here. And so

1311
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 6: one of the things that Michelle Goldberg touched on in

1312
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 6: her piece was that for years, people like her on

1313
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 6: the left have been saying, be careful with this cancel

1314
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 6: culture because it's going to be used against you. Yes,

1315
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 6: she would, and she and she and other people like

1316
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 6: her would say, just in principle, you should not you

1317
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 6: should be supportive of free speech. It shouldn't need to

1318
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 6: be utilitarian and pragmatic for you. But if it needs

1319
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 6: to be, guess what the shoe will be on the

1320
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 6: other foot. And also if you're on the left, the

1321
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,520
Speaker 6: shoe is always on the other foot.

1322
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:38,680
Speaker 3: Like you're you're always going to get kicked with this, and.

1323
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 6: So you're shunding whether you're really on the left right exactly.

1324
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 6: So now there are people saying, where where is the

1325
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 6: where are the people on the left to stand up

1326
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 6: for free expression? And it turns out there aren't. That

1327
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 6: that has been so polarized and an element of the

1328
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 6: right that it's that there's now nobody to stand for them.

1329
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:00,640
Speaker 5: And I think they've muddied the waters and real unfortunate

1330
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 5: way too. Because let's put this next and up on

1331
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 5: the screen. This is five I saw this and this

1332
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 5: is reported for the Daily Signals. Governor Desants just ordered

1333
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 5: the University of Florida and the University of South Florida

1334
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 5: to deactivate their quote Students for Justice in Palestine groups

1335
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 5: for violating Florida's laws against anti Semitism and also for

1336
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 5: you can see in this letter here based on the

1337
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,720
Speaker 5: national s JP support of terrorism and consults consultation with

1338
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:30,600
Speaker 5: Governor DeSantis, the student chapter must be deactivated.

1339
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 4: So they're making this argument that s JP had.

1340
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:38,920
Speaker 5: Offered material support to a foreign enemy, essentially essentially because

1341
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 5: they had claimed that operational acts of flood was you know,

1342
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:47,679
Speaker 5: they needed to mobilize and support of the quote operation

1343
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 5: because they had used that word that this was material

1344
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 5: support to like a terrorist organization essentially, and thereby under

1345
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 5: Florida law, they needed to be unrecognized. And we talked

1346
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 5: a lot about the Stop Woke Act and run DeSantis

1347
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 5: came out with it, and there was some really overly

1348
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:06,519
Speaker 5: broad language in it that I really didn't like, especially

1349
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 5: as a conservative who kind of saw the free speech

1350
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,919
Speaker 5: problem for what it was and over the last decade,

1351
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:16,360
Speaker 5: I wasn't super happy with everything in that. And so

1352
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 5: I saw that tweet and I was like, what the like,

1353
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 5: what is going on? Like this sounds ridiculous, And I

1354
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:24,800
Speaker 5: still think the justification that they came up with was ridiculous,

1355
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:26,680
Speaker 5: precisely because of a point that you just made. I

1356
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 5: want to actually read from the SJP toolkit that DeSantis

1357
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 5: is referencing, because I took a look at it and

1358
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 5: I was like, my god. They wrote today we witnessed

1359
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 5: a historic win for the Palestinian resistance across land, air,

1360
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 5: and sea. Our people have broken down the artificial barriers

1361
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 5: of the Zionist entity, taking with it the facade of

1362
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 5: an impenetrable settler colony, and reminding each of us that

1363
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 5: total return and liberation of Palestine is near, they say,

1364
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,639
Speaker 5: national liberations near. Glory to our resistance, to our martyrs,

1365
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:58,400
Speaker 5: and to our steadfast people. They also stay when people

1366
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 5: are occupied. Resistance is just normalize the resistance. These events

1367
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 5: are the natural and justified response to decades of oppression

1368
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 5: and dehumanization. And that is in reference to this, says

1369
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 5: the Palaestindian people have the right to return to their

1370
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 5: homeland and free themselves from the complete land air and

1371
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 5: see siege they've been subjected to.

1372
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 4: Then here's another one.

1373
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 5: Rather, liberating colonized land is a real process that requires

1374
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 5: confrontation by any means necessary. In essence, decolonization is a

1375
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 5: call to action, a commitment to the restoration of indigenous sovereignty.

1376
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:31,600
Speaker 5: It calls upon us to engage in meaningful acts that

1377
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:34,519
Speaker 5: go beyond symbolism and rhetoric. Resistance comes in all forms,

1378
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 5: armed struggle, general strikes, and popular demonstration. All of it

1379
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 5: is legitimate, and all of it is necessary. And of

1380
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 5: course this is in reference to an attack that was

1381
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 5: targeting civilians. And it's parroting, by the way, some of

1382
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 5: the language from Israel when they say by any means necessary,

1383
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:51,839
Speaker 5: that's actually what a lot of people on the left

1384
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 5: are criticizing from Israel right now by any means necessary. Okay,

1385
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 5: so that means shutting down the water, the electricity to Gaza.

1386
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 5: That means bombing civilian spaces, hospitals, etc.

1387
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 4: Etc.

1388
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 5: And that's exactly what people who support Palestine right now

1389
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:09,240
Speaker 5: are objecting to from Israel. And this template or this

1390
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:13,519
Speaker 5: toolkit includes templates with paragliders in them, and we all

1391
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:17,920
Speaker 5: know what that means. That means supporting the paragliders who

1392
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 5: just mauled civilians down in Israel. And so it's completely

1393
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 5: reasonable that the University of Florida would have in its

1394
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 5: code of conduct something that prevents that, because there's political disagreements,

1395
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:36,559
Speaker 5: and then there's decency disagreements. And where our problem comes

1396
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:38,719
Speaker 5: in is when people on the right and some people

1397
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:41,599
Speaker 5: on the left inflate the definitions of terms like anti

1398
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:46,560
Speaker 5: semitism to implicate reasonable political disagreements and say that because

1399
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 5: Ilhan Omar said something in favor of Palestine, she is

1400
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:54,879
Speaker 5: anti Semitic. I don't know whether Ilhan Omar is anti Semitic,

1401
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:58,520
Speaker 5: but I do know that supporting Palestine is not necessarily

1402
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 5: definitially anti semitic the left. That's one of the ways

1403
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 5: we see language creep on the right. I think we

1404
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 5: see it, have seen it, as Michelle Goldbler points out,

1405
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:10,679
Speaker 5: much more from the last left. In the last ten years,

1406
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:14,480
Speaker 5: terms like bigotry, terms like white supremacy have been inflated

1407
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 5: to include reasonable disagreements. But this is the problem with that.

1408
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 5: This is precisely the problem with that is it makes

1409
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 5: it impossible. It becomes a free speech conflict. When you

1410
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 5: have people that are justifying the slaughter of civilians and

1411
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:33,599
Speaker 5: mobilizing to support it, not just making abstract, esoteric arguments

1412
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 5: in favor of it, but doing activism to support that,

1413
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 5: it becomes a free speech conflict instead of this is

1414
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:42,799
Speaker 5: just a normal student code of conflict conflict.

1415
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:45,519
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I think I think we have to distinguish

1416
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:50,439
Speaker 6: between kind of private companies and public institutions here and so.

1417
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 6: And when I say that there's a distinction between kind

1418
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:59,040
Speaker 6: of political disagreements and decency on the private sector side,

1419
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 6: what I mean by that is if because you really

1420
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 6: just like somebody doesn't have a right to a job,

1421
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 6: somebody doesn't have a right to other people defending them

1422
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 6: if they get fired the way you earn that right

1423
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:17,000
Speaker 6: is you stay within bounds of decency.

1424
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:18,639
Speaker 3: But if you but if.

1425
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 6: You're within those bounds of decency, but your politics are off,

1426
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,040
Speaker 6: people don't like what your politics say, then I think

1427
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 6: everybody should defend your right to not be fired, even

1428
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 6: from even from the private even from the private sector,

1429
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 6: because that's what you know, McCarthyism ultimately, you know, hit

1430
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:37,640
Speaker 6: a lot of people in the private sector. But I

1431
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:41,639
Speaker 6: think the public sector protections have to be even much

1432
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 6: more expansive than that. And I think, you know, as

1433
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 6: deplorable as what Jewish Voices for Peace chapter is saying here,

1434
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 6: I think it still falls all within the.

1435
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:56,400
Speaker 3: Realm of speech, reasonable boundaries. Well, and even if you

1436
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 3: don't think it's decent, it doesn't matter if it's decent

1437
01:15:58,160 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 3: or not. It's still speech.

1438
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:02,920
Speaker 6: And so this Daily Signal claim that they violated laws

1439
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,439
Speaker 6: against anti Semitism is nonsense because there are no laws

1440
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:10,440
Speaker 6: against anti Semitism or the claim yeah, well, the Daily Signal.

1441
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 4: Is supportive of it.

1442
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:14,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, that the.

1443
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 6: Tweet from the Daily Signal there there aren't laws against

1444
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 6: anti Simensons.

1445
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 3: Anti Simonsons should be condemned.

1446
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:23,799
Speaker 6: It's deplorable, but it's not illegal, nor should it be speech.

1447
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 6: We have First Amendment protections, yes, in this in this country.

1448
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:31,719
Speaker 6: What they're leaning on, as you said, is the word

1449
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:36,599
Speaker 6: material material support for a terrorist organization HAMASA terrorist organization.

1450
01:16:37,439 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 6: Material has always been understood to mean material like money

1451
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 6: or other like tangible material support. Speech support has never

1452
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:53,080
Speaker 6: been that. Even if you said on September eleventh, two

1453
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:57,200
Speaker 6: thousand and one, that you were happy that al Qaeda

1454
01:16:57,240 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 6: had done what it did, like that would be protected speech.

1455
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 6: And it's important to protect the most deplorable speech because

1456
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:10,080
Speaker 6: that's where that's where they restricted. The things that you

1457
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 6: disagree with the most are the things you have to

1458
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 6: defend the right to make. Now people have zeroed in

1459
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,320
Speaker 6: on what we're going to have a mass mobilization. That's

1460
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 6: a rally. They're just having a rally. They're going to

1461
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:23,160
Speaker 6: have twenty people chanting somewhere.

1462
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 5: The SGP people were giving templates for like social media,

1463
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 5: and yeah.

1464
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 3: That's all speech. It's all to me, that's all speech.

1465
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:34,360
Speaker 6: It's all just standard organizing, its rallies, it's speeches.

1466
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:36,120
Speaker 3: It's posting on social media.

1467
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 6: And we don't want to get to a place where

1468
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:43,400
Speaker 6: you're criminalizing posting on social media or holding rallies.

1469
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 4: No, I mean I agree with that.

1470
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 5: I think there's a much better rationale than material support

1471
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 5: for a terrorist organization that they could have found, which

1472
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 5: would have been like in the student code of Conduct

1473
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 5: about being respectful.

1474
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 3: And you know what those I got charged with one

1475
01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 3: of those in college.

1476
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 5: They are dangerous and they have to They've been used

1477
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:04,599
Speaker 5: against conservatives at private and public.

1478
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:06,840
Speaker 3: They dropped it.

1479
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:10,400
Speaker 5: See that's it, And so yes, although that's what I'm

1480
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 5: saying though exactly, is that the left has muddy the

1481
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:15,200
Speaker 5: waters over the last ten years to the point where

1482
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:19,679
Speaker 5: those are rendered completely meaningless. Even when you have people

1483
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:24,160
Speaker 5: saying what this toolkit said, it is rendered completely meaningless.

1484
01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:26,719
Speaker 5: Like if there's that like point zero zero one percent

1485
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:29,640
Speaker 5: of cases that are brought have legitimacy, and maybe this

1486
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:31,680
Speaker 5: is one of those cases, and like we can't even

1487
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 5: have that conversation because it all just gets muddied into

1488
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:37,719
Speaker 5: a speech conversation instead of just like at some point

1489
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 5: we have to be able. Nobody in this country, for

1490
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:45,639
Speaker 5: the most part, believes that there should be zero limits

1491
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 5: on speech, Like the material support for a terrorist group

1492
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:50,559
Speaker 5: is a great example, Like we do have limits on

1493
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:53,800
Speaker 5: some of this stuff, and as I feel like I'm

1494
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:55,599
Speaker 5: as close to the boundary as you can possibly get

1495
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 5: on that, like a free speech absoluteist, to the point

1496
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 5: that it's possible. And so I don't really want to

1497
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 5: see anybody criminalized or punished for speech. And that's why

1498
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:07,719
Speaker 5: I think it's stupid to do this. At the same time,

1499
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 5: I do think it's unfortunate the waters have been muddied

1500
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:12,639
Speaker 5: to the point where you can say stuff like this,

1501
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:16,080
Speaker 5: and we have to have this conversation about like cancelation.

1502
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:20,439
Speaker 5: It's not cancel culture. If you all the other examples

1503
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:22,559
Speaker 5: I agree with you are cancel culture, this one is not.

1504
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:25,160
Speaker 6: I think a lot of this stuff, by the way,

1505
01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:26,840
Speaker 6: I think, is not okay.

1506
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:29,640
Speaker 3: Anyway, we got to rapid move on to the to

1507
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:31,160
Speaker 3: the guests. We got the We got the guests in here.

1508
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:34,479
Speaker 6: We're going to talk about the movement to bring you know,

1509
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:36,320
Speaker 6: psychedelics out of the out of the shadows.

1510
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:41,200
Speaker 3: Stick around for that, all right.

1511
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:45,000
Speaker 6: Joining us now is Jesse Gold, former Army ranger and

1512
01:19:45,320 --> 01:19:48,800
Speaker 6: a founder of the Heroic Hearts Project, going to talk

1513
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:51,360
Speaker 6: about the kind of growing, kind of movement to bring

1514
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:54,559
Speaker 6: psychedelics kind of out of the shadows and.

1515
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:56,360
Speaker 3: Into the into public.

1516
01:19:56,400 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 6: Were also joined by General Martin Steele, who is with

1517
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:05,479
Speaker 6: Reason for Hope. General Steele, thank you so much for

1518
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:06,080
Speaker 6: joining us.

1519
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 9: Thank you for having me. Honored to be with.

1520
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:11,080
Speaker 3: You, got It and Jesse.

1521
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:14,880
Speaker 6: This is our first time having one guest live and

1522
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 6: one guest remote, So we appreciate you guys doing this.

1523
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 6: You're here at either fortuitous or unfortuitous time because your

1524
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:28,760
Speaker 6: issue is in the news. Yesterday we covered this Alaska

1525
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 6: Air bizarre situation where it looked like a pilot might

1526
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 6: have been trying to do some type of crash by suicide.

1527
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 6: Turns out the pilot has said that it was his

1528
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:44,400
Speaker 6: first time ever taking psilocybin mushrooms and thought he was

1529
01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:47,280
Speaker 6: dreaming and tried to pull tried to basically shut the

1530
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:50,720
Speaker 6: plane down to wake up. And speaking of waking up,

1531
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:53,360
Speaker 6: as soon as I heard that was like, this sounds

1532
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:57,640
Speaker 6: like a nightmare for Jesse. So when you saw this

1533
01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:00,960
Speaker 6: news report, what did it mean you think about the

1534
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:04,400
Speaker 6: way that this issue has kind of been playing politically

1535
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 6: around the country, Because I want to get into it's

1536
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:11,040
Speaker 6: so alive, so in so many states around the country.

1537
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 15: Absolutely, and thank you so much for having me, and

1538
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 15: I'm glad we can test your guys' system to set rolls,

1539
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:20,960
Speaker 15: and so honored to be joined with by the general

1540
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:23,920
Speaker 15: who's also doing some amazing stuff. For me, it's more

1541
01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 15: fortuitous because these conversations are coming in terms of America's

1542
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:30,360
Speaker 15: perception of psychedelics.

1543
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:31,640
Speaker 9: And what we immediately jump to.

1544
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:35,320
Speaker 15: And for me, this news story there's a lot more

1545
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:37,240
Speaker 15: to unfold if you read it. It just kind of

1546
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:41,240
Speaker 15: lumps into different pieces, and it's that media association that

1547
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:46,120
Speaker 15: media does of this thing bad happened psychedelics. Uh oh,

1548
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:49,639
Speaker 15: this guy went crazy? Right, it's very read for madness esque.

1549
01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 15: You could take this article one hundred years ago and

1550
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:55,640
Speaker 15: they could say the same thing with cannabis and everybody like,

1551
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:58,760
Speaker 15: oh yeah, that makes sense, whereas now that seem ridiculous. Right,

1552
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 15: So I'm not saying saying psilocybin had nothing to do

1553
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:05,479
Speaker 15: with it, But there's also many other factors that they

1554
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 15: noted in there, including forty hours of no sleep right,

1555
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:15,080
Speaker 15: including one article I read that this gentleman was going

1556
01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:17,800
Speaker 15: to San Francisco to go onto a flight. So that's

1557
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:20,559
Speaker 15: kind of basic adult rules. Don't do psilocybin for the

1558
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:24,280
Speaker 15: first time if you're going to do some sort of flight.

1559
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:26,400
Speaker 6: Don't do it on a plane, and don't do it

1560
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 6: if you haven't slept for forty hours.

1561
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 15: Yeah, and so this is no matter what psychedelics are coming.

1562
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 15: Soil Simon itself has been declared to break through therapy

1563
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:39,280
Speaker 15: by the FDA for depression. These are starting to be

1564
01:22:39,320 --> 01:22:41,680
Speaker 15: a main staple mental health as we pass laws, but

1565
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 15: we still have the stigma hurdles that we have to overcome,

1566
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 15: and lazy media like this does not help because it

1567
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:52,559
Speaker 15: doesn't delve into it. It's just that clickbaity. Hey, this

1568
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:55,240
Speaker 15: is a crazy story. Let's throw in psychedelics in there.

1569
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 15: Let's not explain anything further, let's not get any more

1570
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:01,200
Speaker 15: information about it. But people are immediately going to do

1571
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 15: that association you could do anything else. For instance, they

1572
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:06,680
Speaker 15: always do this when there's some sort of tragedy. Oh,

1573
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:09,000
Speaker 15: this guy visited a mosque a week ago. Is there

1574
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:12,960
Speaker 15: some sort of correlation? Never dive into the actual facts

1575
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,960
Speaker 15: around it. The other issue, and this is a much

1576
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 15: longer issue, is the mental health issue. It's known that

1577
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:24,479
Speaker 15: pilots are afraid of addressing mental health concerns because they

1578
01:23:24,520 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 15: could lose their job. A friend who runs a similar

1579
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:30,599
Speaker 15: nonprofit no fallen Heroes. He comes from a top gun

1580
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:34,120
Speaker 15: fighter pilot and actually works with pilots through psychedelics because

1581
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:37,639
Speaker 15: when they retire, they have been dealing with their mental

1582
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:40,719
Speaker 15: health issues and their only resort is to turn to alcohol.

1583
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:44,559
Speaker 15: So sorry to shock people who are flying, but there

1584
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:47,800
Speaker 15: is a crisis of many veterans who become pilots, many

1585
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:50,080
Speaker 15: others who have mental health issues, and these are the

1586
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 15: people who are flying our planes because they have unaddressed

1587
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:56,720
Speaker 15: mental health issues. And to just lump it in of

1588
01:23:57,000 --> 01:23:59,599
Speaker 15: psychedelics are going to CAU as crazy people. There's no

1589
01:23:59,720 --> 01:24:02,599
Speaker 15: fact evidence to support that. In fact, if we had

1590
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:08,360
Speaker 15: an honest conversation, ssrise and other mental health medication actually

1591
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:12,320
Speaker 15: have a strong correlation at least eight percent caused psychosis.

1592
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:17,639
Speaker 15: There's never been similar research showing that association with psychedelics.

1593
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:19,840
Speaker 5: And that's the big pharma advertising you just don't hear.

1594
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:22,519
Speaker 5: Ryan General Steele, I want to bring you in here

1595
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:26,720
Speaker 5: to ask basically what your path was to advocacy in

1596
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:29,760
Speaker 5: this space, because as we were just talking about their

1597
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:34,200
Speaker 5: decades of stigma to overcome essentially, so for you, how

1598
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:37,439
Speaker 5: did you come to this point advocating on behalf of

1599
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:39,320
Speaker 5: these important medications.

1600
01:24:40,479 --> 01:24:43,160
Speaker 13: Well, I want to thank you for having me again.

1601
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:45,680
Speaker 13: I think that if I had to summarize it in

1602
01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 13: one word or at my age, it's frustration, a little

1603
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:55,000
Speaker 13: bit in line what Jesse said and his answer to

1604
01:24:55,120 --> 01:25:00,120
Speaker 13: your previous question. It's frustration with a lack of urgency

1605
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:04,479
Speaker 13: from our government for bold initiatives to improve the mental

1606
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:08,560
Speaker 13: health situation in our country, which we are in a crisis.

1607
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 9: And so.

1608
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:13,360
Speaker 13: I have been involved in this in the form of

1609
01:25:13,479 --> 01:25:17,719
Speaker 13: research since I retired from the Marine Corps in nineteen

1610
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:22,080
Speaker 13: ninety nine and have worked with scientists looking at comorbidities

1611
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:25,880
Speaker 13: with traumatic brain injury and post traumatic stress military sexual

1612
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:31,760
Speaker 13: trauma across the spectrum and looking at viable alternatives to ssriyes,

1613
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:36,839
Speaker 13: and the frustration with the treatment protocols in the Veterans

1614
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:43,000
Speaker 13: Administration health system, which have been lack of confidence for veterans,

1615
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:47,880
Speaker 13: and so people like Jesse who are inspirational to me

1616
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 13: and part of the Veteran Mental Health Leadership Coalition, which

1617
01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:53,479
Speaker 13: I have the privilege to be the co founder and

1618
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:57,120
Speaker 13: leader of. There are over forty five organizations. Were all

1619
01:25:57,200 --> 01:26:01,200
Speaker 13: of the same built from coming from an experience and

1620
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:04,599
Speaker 13: a frustration that we're not doing the things that need

1621
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:09,719
Speaker 13: to be done, the initiatives like research into psychedelic assisted

1622
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:13,879
Speaker 13: therapy to be able to improve the mental health situation

1623
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:17,720
Speaker 13: in our country. This is not about decriminalization from our

1624
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:22,559
Speaker 13: perspective or social use. It's about research that needs to

1625
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:26,639
Speaker 13: be done in these medications, just like what was mentioned

1626
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 13: here MDMA and psilocybin, and that's what we're doing with

1627
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:36,759
Speaker 13: the Breakthrough Therapies Act HR thirteen ninety three and S

1628
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 13: six's eighty nine with co sponsors on both sides of

1629
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:41,600
Speaker 13: the Aisle.

1630
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:45,000
Speaker 9: Bi cameral support.

1631
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:49,360
Speaker 13: Of getting legislation passed which would reschedule these medicines to

1632
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:52,759
Speaker 13: be able to do much more research in the space,

1633
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:56,679
Speaker 13: moving them from Schedule one, which is an illegal medicine

1634
01:26:56,680 --> 01:27:01,839
Speaker 13: to Schedule two because they have been granted that condition

1635
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:09,640
Speaker 13: from the FDA, and getting research done and expanding access

1636
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:15,000
Speaker 13: to all Americans who are experiencing these traumas in the

1637
01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:17,880
Speaker 13: mental health arena. It doesn't matter whether they're veterans or

1638
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:24,800
Speaker 13: civilians or first responders the medical field of pilots. Just

1639
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 13: like what Jesse brought out, we just have to do

1640
01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:30,439
Speaker 13: a better job. So what brought me here was the

1641
01:27:30,439 --> 01:27:33,920
Speaker 13: frustration that it's not moving, it's not moving fast enough,

1642
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:38,599
Speaker 13: and that far too many veterans have gone outside our country.

1643
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:42,240
Speaker 13: And Jesse can speak to this because he's a living

1644
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:46,120
Speaker 13: example of helping those veterans but go outside our country

1645
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 13: to get treatment using these medicines that save their lives

1646
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:54,599
Speaker 13: that they can't get in the United States legally. It's

1647
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:58,880
Speaker 13: either underground or taking a risk of being arrested. So

1648
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:01,200
Speaker 13: for me, it's changing the law to do.

1649
01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:06,920
Speaker 6: That, and not just our veterans, but also our president's son.

1650
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:09,880
Speaker 6: So I wanted to We talk a lot about m

1651
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:14,519
Speaker 6: d m A and mushrooms, but I Begain is one

1652
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 6: that doesn't get enough attention relative to the amount the

1653
01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:23,400
Speaker 6: ability it has demonstrated to help people battle with addiction.

1654
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:26,240
Speaker 6: And so Hunter Biden is known to have gone. I

1655
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 6: think was it Mexico?

1656
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:28,880
Speaker 9: More likely?

1657
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, for an e for an ibagain treatment and his

1658
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:36,680
Speaker 6: sobriety I think is understood by people close to him,

1659
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:40,240
Speaker 6: including his father, to be connected to I Be Again.

1660
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:43,160
Speaker 6: And so what are we seeing when it comes to

1661
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:46,960
Speaker 6: the VA and to federal legislation or state legislation to

1662
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:52,280
Speaker 6: open that up either to either to veterans others and

1663
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:54,000
Speaker 6: what can you tell us about ibogain in general?

1664
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:57,800
Speaker 15: Absolutely, we're getting all the good poster child for psychedelics today.

1665
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1666
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:03,600
Speaker 6: Also, if it moves Hunter from that Hunter to you

1667
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:06,320
Speaker 6: know one is just you know, doing paintings for donors.

1668
01:29:06,360 --> 01:29:06,439
Speaker 12: No.

1669
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:09,519
Speaker 15: Absolutely, and you know on our side, everybody deserves some

1670
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:11,439
Speaker 15: sort of form of healing. And what we're seeing from

1671
01:29:11,479 --> 01:29:15,200
Speaker 15: the statistics coming from the VA and other organizations is

1672
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:18,240
Speaker 15: that modern Western accepted medicine is just not doing it.

1673
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:21,960
Speaker 15: The rates within the VA are abysmal, and we see

1674
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:24,479
Speaker 15: with the suicide rates, I think the VA just came

1675
01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:26,400
Speaker 15: out and they're always revising it, which just shows that

1676
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:28,280
Speaker 15: they don't even have a base of handle on it.

1677
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:31,400
Speaker 15: Anywhere from twenty two to forty four veterans commit suicide

1678
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:34,679
Speaker 15: a day, right, and that this is over twenty years

1679
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:37,639
Speaker 15: of war, which is even more shocking now that people

1680
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:40,760
Speaker 15: are talking about getting into another war without even addressing

1681
01:29:41,160 --> 01:29:45,520
Speaker 15: this underlying issue that's affecting hundreds of thousands of veterans.

1682
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:48,840
Speaker 15: So there's across the board of many of these different

1683
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:51,640
Speaker 15: psychedelics are almost being rediscovered by the Western world of

1684
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:55,120
Speaker 15: how effective they are, only because the research has been

1685
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:59,400
Speaker 15: squashed by you know, these sort of media articles, the

1686
01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:02,759
Speaker 15: war on drug uggs, government propaganda, which has been very effective.

1687
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:06,840
Speaker 15: I Began has been particularly effective with addiction. So they've

1688
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:09,360
Speaker 15: they've established clinics in Mexico, there's a couple in Canada,

1689
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:16,519
Speaker 15: and where addiction rates generally have abysmal sort of you know,

1690
01:30:16,600 --> 01:30:22,040
Speaker 15: these these malab resorts. More than often people go into recidivism.

1691
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:24,599
Speaker 15: But I Began has actually shown very effective results where

1692
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:29,120
Speaker 15: people go in with opioid addiction and they go out

1693
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:30,960
Speaker 15: of it not having that addiction at least for a

1694
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 15: time being. And then there's also the same sort of

1695
01:30:33,200 --> 01:30:36,639
Speaker 15: psychological benefit where they can understand the root trauma that

1696
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:39,240
Speaker 15: caused them that addiction in the first place. So it

1697
01:30:39,320 --> 01:30:41,800
Speaker 15: gives them this window of opportunity to really change their

1698
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:44,240
Speaker 15: life in an effective way. And we're seeing this across

1699
01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:47,120
Speaker 15: the boarders different psychedelics in different ways, and so there

1700
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:50,000
Speaker 15: is research going on, but it's all been private funded

1701
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:54,280
Speaker 15: through organizations like ours and not and sort of shoulders

1702
01:30:54,320 --> 01:30:58,320
Speaker 15: turned from governments. And so for instance, General Steel's working

1703
01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:00,960
Speaker 15: on a bill with Kentucky to find get in government

1704
01:31:01,080 --> 01:31:05,280
Speaker 15: funding for I begained research from settlements from the sack

1705
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:09,800
Speaker 15: from the opioid crisis that the funds from that.

1706
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 6: Ye, General Steele, can you tell us about that that

1707
01:31:12,040 --> 01:31:15,520
Speaker 6: Kentucky bill does it doesn't have serious prospects.

1708
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:18,920
Speaker 13: We believe it does. There have been three hearings. We've

1709
01:31:18,920 --> 01:31:24,120
Speaker 13: been involved in the Bettermental Health Leadership Coalition assisting the

1710
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:28,719
Speaker 13: Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission in the State of Kentucky, which

1711
01:31:29,240 --> 01:31:33,879
Speaker 13: has been meeting in regards specifically to using a proposed

1712
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:38,320
Speaker 13: forty two million dollars toward I Be Again research and

1713
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:43,960
Speaker 13: development out of this fund that Jesse just said. Our

1714
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:47,639
Speaker 13: position is that we think that this has great promise

1715
01:31:48,760 --> 01:31:52,720
Speaker 13: by researching it. We're thrilled to be working with the

1716
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:56,240
Speaker 13: State of Kentucky, who's out front on this because of

1717
01:31:56,280 --> 01:31:59,720
Speaker 13: the opioid crisis and the deaths that they have due

1718
01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:04,000
Speaker 13: to overdose and addiction and the success that I Be

1719
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:09,599
Speaker 13: Again has proven to be so effective against It's clear

1720
01:32:09,640 --> 01:32:12,599
Speaker 13: that the treatments as we've set up to this point

1721
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:16,120
Speaker 13: aren't working, and I Be Again isn't the answer for everyone,

1722
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:20,559
Speaker 13: but from our perspective, it has tremendous great promise. There

1723
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:24,440
Speaker 13: was a hearing just last week, a third I've testified

1724
01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:28,680
Speaker 13: there before that Commission, but a hearing last week we

1725
01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:32,599
Speaker 13: had a member of the FDA who clearly is talking

1726
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 13: about the need to balance the potential risk and benefit

1727
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:41,000
Speaker 13: of I BE again through proper testing and research, and

1728
01:32:41,200 --> 01:32:46,920
Speaker 13: is absolutely that they'll be considering the condition that we're

1729
01:32:46,920 --> 01:32:50,320
Speaker 13: in in this crisis and that I Begained is a

1730
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:54,280
Speaker 13: viable next step alternative and Jesse.

1731
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:58,000
Speaker 6: In early October, Gavin Newsom veto to psychedelic piece of

1732
01:32:58,080 --> 01:33:03,080
Speaker 6: legislation out in California. He in his veto message he

1733
01:33:03,080 --> 01:33:04,719
Speaker 6: said he wanted something more orderly.

1734
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:06,360
Speaker 3: It seemed like, sent back to him.

1735
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:09,840
Speaker 6: You tell us what happened there and what's next in

1736
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 6: California potentially.

1737
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:14,640
Speaker 15: Yeah, And this is very indicative of the frustration that

1738
01:33:14,680 --> 01:33:18,120
Speaker 15: General Steel mentioned earlier. This has been an over three

1739
01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:21,920
Speaker 15: year process, many iterations. By the time we actually got

1740
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:26,400
Speaker 15: it through both the houses in California by Parson support,

1741
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:29,360
Speaker 15: wide popular support, it would have been an easy bill

1742
01:33:29,800 --> 01:33:34,880
Speaker 15: for Governor Newsom to sign. And what everybody speculates is

1743
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:39,599
Speaker 15: it's because of his looking forward to what's next in

1744
01:33:39,640 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 15: his sort of career and using the veto, which in

1745
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:45,880
Speaker 15: my opinion in this case is very undemocratic. When it

1746
01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:49,640
Speaker 15: gets to that level of passing all this with a

1747
01:33:49,640 --> 01:33:52,040
Speaker 15: lot of work, and everybody agreed it was a good

1748
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 15: bill sort of baseline and just a very basic People

1749
01:33:55,160 --> 01:33:58,640
Speaker 15: should not be criminalized for having personal possession of just

1750
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:02,920
Speaker 15: grown psychedelics, an LSD that's synthetic, so just mushrooms, just

1751
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:05,000
Speaker 15: all this other kind of stuff. As we can see,

1752
01:34:05,040 --> 01:34:08,800
Speaker 15: people are already using it illegally, but because we criminalize it,

1753
01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:12,479
Speaker 15: we put this sort of blockade of any other people

1754
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:15,240
Speaker 15: talking about it. There's there's a stigma around it. So

1755
01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:17,559
Speaker 15: any other organizations that can help out that can bring

1756
01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:20,680
Speaker 15: much value education, like you should not take mushrooms for

1757
01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:26,720
Speaker 15: the first time before possibly piloting a baseline education. It

1758
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:31,720
Speaker 15: has been prevented because of this criminality, and people are

1759
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:38,360
Speaker 15: we're seeing this seeking their own mental health relief because

1760
01:34:38,520 --> 01:34:41,280
Speaker 15: of the failure of this system. This all of this

1761
01:34:41,479 --> 01:34:45,680
Speaker 15: news is showing how much the system is failing. And

1762
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:49,559
Speaker 15: so very disappointed in Governor Newsom. And you know it's

1763
01:34:49,840 --> 01:34:52,680
Speaker 15: a very politician thing where he had this. Hey, if

1764
01:34:52,720 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 15: you had just done this, it would have been great.

1765
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:57,599
Speaker 15: He had more than three years to tell us. And

1766
01:34:57,640 --> 01:35:00,760
Speaker 15: it's for the veteran population. A lot of us are

1767
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:03,559
Speaker 15: disappointed because this is what we come to expect. These

1768
01:35:03,560 --> 01:35:06,559
Speaker 15: politicians will say, Hey, I support the troops, Hey I

1769
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:09,400
Speaker 15: have these veteran friends over here next time around. But

1770
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:12,080
Speaker 15: what they do is they kick the can. They utilize

1771
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:14,800
Speaker 15: our name, our voice to get what they need. But

1772
01:35:14,840 --> 01:35:17,479
Speaker 15: when we ask them the very basic to help us,

1773
01:35:17,560 --> 01:35:19,800
Speaker 15: they do not. And again, I want to circle back.

1774
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:22,760
Speaker 15: This is so important right now because we just got

1775
01:35:22,760 --> 01:35:25,439
Speaker 15: out of twenty years of war. There's over six hundred

1776
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:27,639
Speaker 15: thousand just from the past twenty years of war veterans

1777
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:31,960
Speaker 15: with PTSD. There has not been effective legislation on a

1778
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:34,800
Speaker 15: federal level to resolve this, or address this, or even

1779
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:37,720
Speaker 15: talk about this. We haven't even looked at why we

1780
01:35:37,800 --> 01:35:40,880
Speaker 15: had twenty years of failed war and there's already people

1781
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:44,840
Speaker 15: salvating about getting into the next war. The contractors get

1782
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:47,280
Speaker 15: paid up front, we're still their hat in hand. My

1783
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:51,360
Speaker 15: friends have to go to Capitol Hill and beg politicians

1784
01:35:51,680 --> 01:35:54,759
Speaker 15: to pay attention to the suicide rate. There's no reason,

1785
01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:58,800
Speaker 15: with that many veterans dying from suicide that this should

1786
01:35:58,840 --> 01:36:01,840
Speaker 15: not be a national crisis. We show how fast the

1787
01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:05,400
Speaker 15: government can work when it wants to, but there has

1788
01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:09,000
Speaker 15: not been the same sort of urgency around veterans and

1789
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:12,799
Speaker 15: mental health issues, which is very tragic and in my opinion,

1790
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:18,760
Speaker 15: Governor Newsom's decision with self serving and falls right in

1791
01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:21,920
Speaker 15: line with what we come to expect from politicians.

1792
01:36:21,280 --> 01:36:22,160
Speaker 3: And General Steele.

1793
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:26,680
Speaker 6: I'm curious what the reaction has been from your kind

1794
01:36:26,680 --> 01:36:30,519
Speaker 6: of former comrades and colleagues in the military too. You

1795
01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:32,400
Speaker 6: coming out and taking a position on this, do you

1796
01:36:32,479 --> 01:36:35,760
Speaker 6: do do you hear? Do you hear more good for you?

1797
01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:39,639
Speaker 6: This is desperately needed, or do you hear more? There

1798
01:36:39,680 --> 01:36:42,120
Speaker 6: goes you know, crazy hippie General Steel out?

1799
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:46,400
Speaker 13: You know with what we'll hear the latter, uh not

1800
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:51,479
Speaker 13: to my faith, I would say my generation. I'm a

1801
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:57,160
Speaker 13: Vietnam era military member, two tours of combat in Vietnam,

1802
01:36:57,360 --> 01:37:00,160
Speaker 13: my father stepfather I never knew my real father was

1803
01:37:00,160 --> 01:37:02,600
Speaker 13: a prisoner of war in World War Two, and my

1804
01:37:02,720 --> 01:37:06,040
Speaker 13: son had three tours of combat in Afghanistan.

1805
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:09,320
Speaker 9: So we spanned the whole gamut.

1806
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:14,719
Speaker 13: But the support that I've received from my peers, once

1807
01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:19,200
Speaker 13: they are educated in regards to what and why, they

1808
01:37:19,240 --> 01:37:23,280
Speaker 13: clearly understand the crisis and the mental health situation, I

1809
01:37:23,280 --> 01:37:26,439
Speaker 13: would say my generation of warrior is saying to me,

1810
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:30,479
Speaker 13: thank you for what you're doing, and all of the

1811
01:37:30,520 --> 01:37:35,040
Speaker 13: people of the coalition, these veteran service organizations and groups

1812
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:39,519
Speaker 13: like Jesse. I wish we would have had that for

1813
01:37:39,720 --> 01:37:43,200
Speaker 13: us because as Jesse said early on, I mean, alcohol

1814
01:37:43,400 --> 01:37:46,240
Speaker 13: was the drug of choice. It's a problem for all

1815
01:37:46,280 --> 01:37:51,320
Speaker 13: of my peers and excessive use of alcohol and we

1816
01:37:51,439 --> 01:37:54,800
Speaker 13: never got our arms around this, and the situation now

1817
01:37:55,479 --> 01:37:59,160
Speaker 13: with SSRIs and the VA is just making it worse

1818
01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:04,240
Speaker 13: getting any better. So tremendous amount of support. A lot

1819
01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:08,080
Speaker 13: of them want to know more, they are studying what

1820
01:38:08,200 --> 01:38:11,400
Speaker 13: we're doing and why, but on the whole they are

1821
01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:16,839
Speaker 13: firm believers. I've had no pushback to summarize the answer

1822
01:38:17,240 --> 01:38:20,640
Speaker 13: from any of my peers or even the leaders that

1823
01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:21,960
Speaker 13: I had that were ahead of me.

1824
01:38:22,120 --> 01:38:22,800
Speaker 9: I mean I was a.

1825
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:27,080
Speaker 13: Three star general, my four star people that I'm very

1826
01:38:27,200 --> 01:38:30,680
Speaker 13: very close to that are also retired. Now all of

1827
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:34,160
Speaker 13: them very much support what we're doing because, as Jesse indicated,

1828
01:38:34,720 --> 01:38:37,679
Speaker 13: six hundred thousand out of the Global War on Terror

1829
01:38:37,720 --> 01:38:40,759
Speaker 13: a twenty year war, and we haven't touched the surface

1830
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:44,480
Speaker 13: yet of them coming to the forefront with their issues,

1831
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:48,320
Speaker 13: and we're still not wrapping our arms around the needs

1832
01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:53,000
Speaker 13: for viable alternative therapies, which we believe psychedelic assistant therapy

1833
01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:56,599
Speaker 13: will be a major player in changing the mental health

1834
01:38:56,760 --> 01:38:58,040
Speaker 13: crisis in our country.

1835
01:38:58,520 --> 01:39:01,519
Speaker 3: You're both optimistic and general steel.

1836
01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:03,920
Speaker 6: I also promised our viewers earlier in the show that

1837
01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:07,160
Speaker 6: I picked your brain on some basic military questions, and Jesse,

1838
01:39:07,200 --> 01:39:08,960
Speaker 6: if you and he takes on these two and we

1839
01:39:09,479 --> 01:39:09,800
Speaker 6: love him.

1840
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:10,919
Speaker 3: Got two questions.

1841
01:39:11,240 --> 01:39:14,880
Speaker 6: One and since you were a veteran of Vietnam, I'm

1842
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:18,040
Speaker 6: curious for your take on what the role the tunnels

1843
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:21,960
Speaker 6: that that Hamas has built over the years in Gods

1844
01:39:21,960 --> 01:39:25,200
Speaker 6: and might play in a land invasion, given that in

1845
01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:28,360
Speaker 6: Vietnam that the tunnel system was so effective for a

1846
01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:30,439
Speaker 6: guerrilla warfare, and that we had a there was a

1847
01:39:30,439 --> 01:39:33,880
Speaker 6: tunnel system in Afghanistan that was also problematic, and you

1848
01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:37,160
Speaker 6: know for American troops that got that got less attention.

1849
01:39:37,680 --> 01:39:39,760
Speaker 3: And the second, and maybe this is an ignorant.

1850
01:39:39,439 --> 01:39:43,880
Speaker 6: Question, why is Hamas so able to build missiles and

1851
01:39:43,960 --> 01:39:46,639
Speaker 6: rockets that they constantly are able to fire into Israel

1852
01:39:46,880 --> 01:39:51,080
Speaker 6: but apparently has zero anti aircraft capacity that that I

1853
01:39:51,120 --> 01:39:52,000
Speaker 6: just can't understand.

1854
01:39:52,439 --> 01:39:54,400
Speaker 3: Either one of you want to take either one of those.

1855
01:39:55,680 --> 01:40:00,519
Speaker 13: I'll be glad to start sure the opening with the

1856
01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:07,120
Speaker 13: tunnel situation. It's obviously very complex. They've spent years doing it,

1857
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:11,240
Speaker 13: and I believe that just as in the case in Vietnam,

1858
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:15,120
Speaker 13: they were problematic, as you said, they're going to be

1859
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:19,599
Speaker 13: much more problematic if there's a ground if and when

1860
01:40:19,640 --> 01:40:24,280
Speaker 13: the ground invasion takes place, So there's significant obstacles to

1861
01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:29,840
Speaker 13: overcome a lot of challenges like we had in Vietnam.

1862
01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:34,120
Speaker 13: Some of my high school classmates were of the size,

1863
01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:37,600
Speaker 13: if you will, physical size that they were known affectionately

1864
01:40:37,640 --> 01:40:42,000
Speaker 13: as tunnel rats, and they were traumatized by their experience

1865
01:40:42,040 --> 01:40:46,200
Speaker 13: going into the tunnels. Tremendous warriors did the job, but

1866
01:40:46,280 --> 01:40:50,320
Speaker 13: traumatized by that experience. So in the case of your

1867
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:55,200
Speaker 13: second question, I would say they're being more supplied with

1868
01:40:55,280 --> 01:40:59,160
Speaker 13: these weapons of rockets than manufacturing them.

1869
01:40:59,240 --> 01:41:01,080
Speaker 9: I watched your program the other day.

1870
01:41:01,120 --> 01:41:03,639
Speaker 13: I thought it was very thoughtful as you were looking

1871
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:06,639
Speaker 13: in these kinds of areas and questions. But I think

1872
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:11,920
Speaker 13: it's more external supplies that are providing them with those capabilities.

1873
01:41:11,960 --> 01:41:17,839
Speaker 13: And the third question regarding why don't they have anti

1874
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:22,559
Speaker 13: air capabilities, I'm not qualified to answer that right now.

1875
01:41:24,680 --> 01:41:27,360
Speaker 15: Yeah, from the from the tunnel. It's just it's it

1876
01:41:27,360 --> 01:41:29,200
Speaker 15: would be a nightmare. I mean, if you you remember,

1877
01:41:29,240 --> 01:41:31,200
Speaker 15: I mean you were.

1878
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:32,879
Speaker 3: Not in your head at the Afghanistan tunnels.

1879
01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:35,720
Speaker 15: Afghanistan tunnels, I mean, but I was also thinking, like

1880
01:41:35,720 --> 01:41:38,920
Speaker 15: World War two, Japan had notorious for the tunnels, and

1881
01:41:38,960 --> 01:41:41,760
Speaker 15: that factored into our decision of how in trench they were,

1882
01:41:42,320 --> 01:41:45,720
Speaker 15: and especially without our understanding it's a completely different warfare.

1883
01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:46,679
Speaker 9: Uh.

1884
01:41:46,720 --> 01:41:50,040
Speaker 15: And it's it's it's would be unlike what we've seen

1885
01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:54,439
Speaker 15: in Afghanistan generally is pretty open, pretty flat, so that

1886
01:41:54,479 --> 01:41:58,000
Speaker 15: allowed a lot more air support, all sorts of other

1887
01:41:59,280 --> 01:42:01,920
Speaker 15: intelligence that we just want to have. But then we're

1888
01:42:01,960 --> 01:42:05,479
Speaker 15: factoring not only the urban warfare and the tunnels, which

1889
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:08,600
Speaker 15: we really just haven't seen for quite a while, and

1890
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:11,880
Speaker 15: just the density of the population. It factors into all

1891
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:15,360
Speaker 15: these other dynamics because if you're going into there and

1892
01:42:15,880 --> 01:42:20,160
Speaker 15: you're going against a the Hummas that's not going to

1893
01:42:20,240 --> 01:42:24,760
Speaker 15: wear uniforms, and you're in this very dense population, it's

1894
01:42:24,960 --> 01:42:28,559
Speaker 15: gonna be chaos and a lot of factors. And then

1895
01:42:28,600 --> 01:42:34,400
Speaker 15: you're bringing in other serious military potentially like Iran as

1896
01:42:34,439 --> 01:42:37,400
Speaker 15: well as what happened in Afghanistan. When I was over there.

1897
01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:40,400
Speaker 15: There was an estimation that this was a little bit

1898
01:42:40,479 --> 01:42:43,200
Speaker 15: deeper into the war that the majority of the people

1899
01:42:43,240 --> 01:42:46,160
Speaker 15: we fight were fighting weren't even Taliban or from Afghanistan.

1900
01:42:46,479 --> 01:42:50,599
Speaker 15: The vast majority we're from other countries, other networks surrounding

1901
01:42:50,640 --> 01:42:53,439
Speaker 15: countries that were just there because that's where the fight was.

1902
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:56,320
Speaker 15: And I feel like this is even more that case

1903
01:42:56,360 --> 01:43:00,439
Speaker 15: where it's gonna be sort of that ideological not only

1904
01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:04,439
Speaker 15: fighting US fighting Israel in this centered spot that's just

1905
01:43:04,479 --> 01:43:08,559
Speaker 15: going to be a hotbed. And again we have not

1906
01:43:08,720 --> 01:43:12,400
Speaker 15: even done an after actions review on the last wars.

1907
01:43:12,680 --> 01:43:15,640
Speaker 15: Why were we there for twenty years? And neither the

1908
01:43:15,720 --> 01:43:18,760
Speaker 15: general are our piecenicks, you know, like I would reenlist

1909
01:43:18,800 --> 01:43:22,680
Speaker 15: again if I was at that age. And there's an

1910
01:43:23,200 --> 01:43:27,400
Speaker 15: unspoken agreement where there should be in any culture or

1911
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:32,840
Speaker 15: any country between the serving veterans and the politicians. We

1912
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:36,080
Speaker 15: will risk our lives, but we expect them to have

1913
01:43:36,200 --> 01:43:40,840
Speaker 15: intelligent analysis of the wars we get into, right, and

1914
01:43:40,880 --> 01:43:43,519
Speaker 15: we did not have that analysis with the previous wars.

1915
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:46,120
Speaker 15: And I'm not saying one way or the other of that,

1916
01:43:46,320 --> 01:43:49,639
Speaker 15: but we need to actually factor in the real cost,

1917
01:43:49,720 --> 01:43:52,760
Speaker 15: not just a cost to the war. Contractors, but the

1918
01:43:52,840 --> 01:43:55,920
Speaker 15: lives as well as the mental health issues that we

1919
01:43:56,040 --> 01:43:59,400
Speaker 15: have not even factored in with these past few wars.

1920
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:03,600
Speaker 3: The very least we can do is at least research.

1921
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:08,680
Speaker 6: Therapies that could be beneficial to people coming home with

1922
01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:11,519
Speaker 6: the moral wounds and the emotional and psychological wounds as

1923
01:44:11,600 --> 01:44:14,320
Speaker 6: well as the physical ones. And so the organizations are

1924
01:44:14,360 --> 01:44:17,040
Speaker 6: Reason for Hope, Heroic Hearts Project.

1925
01:44:17,320 --> 01:44:19,639
Speaker 3: Where can people find more information on this?

1926
01:44:20,160 --> 01:44:23,760
Speaker 15: So Heroicartsproject dot org is our website and as the

1927
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:27,719
Speaker 15: General said, our main goal is that we help connect

1928
01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:30,800
Speaker 15: veterans to countries where this is legal. As tragic as

1929
01:44:30,800 --> 01:44:33,479
Speaker 15: that sounds, veterans are going to other countries to get

1930
01:44:33,479 --> 01:44:36,160
Speaker 15: life saving support. That's where we come into place.

1931
01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:38,080
Speaker 3: And make sure they do it as safely as possible.

1932
01:44:37,720 --> 01:44:40,799
Speaker 15: As safely with support, so these sort of stories don't happen.

1933
01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:44,200
Speaker 15: If the General I think it's Reason for Hope dot org,

1934
01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:46,000
Speaker 15: he can correct me if that's wrong.

1935
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:47,479
Speaker 9: No, that's correct.

1936
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:51,320
Speaker 13: And the Veteran Mental Health Leadership Coalition also, which is

1937
01:44:51,400 --> 01:44:55,400
Speaker 13: the comprised of these over forty five veteran service organizations

1938
01:44:55,439 --> 01:44:58,439
Speaker 13: that we have all part of doing the same thing

1939
01:44:58,479 --> 01:45:01,200
Speaker 13: that Jesse just said efficacy in this space.

1940
01:45:02,479 --> 01:45:03,360
Speaker 3: We're really appreciate you.

1941
01:45:03,760 --> 01:45:05,960
Speaker 6: We really appreciate you guys joining us and for the

1942
01:45:05,960 --> 01:45:06,679
Speaker 6: fight you're waging.

1943
01:45:07,320 --> 01:45:08,080
Speaker 9: Thank you so much.

1944
01:45:08,479 --> 01:45:10,120
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I want.

1945
01:45:10,000 --> 01:45:12,599
Speaker 3: To tell you go ahead.

1946
01:45:12,680 --> 01:45:14,599
Speaker 13: Well, I just want to say thank you for what

1947
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:17,599
Speaker 13: you're doing too. Having had the opportunity to look at

1948
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:23,160
Speaker 13: some of your work. It's thoughtful, thought provoking, but very

1949
01:45:23,240 --> 01:45:26,680
Speaker 13: necessary right now and so affording us the opportunity to

1950
01:45:26,720 --> 01:45:30,120
Speaker 13: come on to talk about this specific issue. We hope

1951
01:45:30,120 --> 01:45:33,439
Speaker 13: we have an opportunity to come back, but this is

1952
01:45:33,479 --> 01:45:36,719
Speaker 13: the space if we're going to do something differently, because

1953
01:45:36,800 --> 01:45:39,760
Speaker 13: what we've done and what we are currently doing is

1954
01:45:39,800 --> 01:45:44,600
Speaker 13: the true definition of insanity, providing the same treatment protocols

1955
01:45:44,640 --> 01:45:48,599
Speaker 13: that do not work for this population as it comes forward.

1956
01:45:48,960 --> 01:45:51,439
Speaker 13: We're not there yet with the six hundred thousand. As

1957
01:45:51,479 --> 01:45:54,520
Speaker 13: they come forward. It's like a tip of the iceberg

1958
01:45:54,600 --> 01:45:59,439
Speaker 13: right now. And it's the perculean work that Jesse Gould

1959
01:45:59,520 --> 01:46:02,920
Speaker 13: is doing his organizations and others. But to have to

1960
01:46:02,960 --> 01:46:06,240
Speaker 13: go outside our country to get treatment to save your

1961
01:46:06,320 --> 01:46:11,080
Speaker 13: life is unconscionable and it is the definition of suicide

1962
01:46:11,160 --> 01:46:13,080
Speaker 13: to think that you can do the same thing over

1963
01:46:13,160 --> 01:46:16,240
Speaker 13: and over that we have been doing now and get

1964
01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:19,439
Speaker 13: a different result. So thank you for what you're doing

1965
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:22,320
Speaker 13: in this space to help us get the message out.

1966
01:46:22,800 --> 01:46:24,240
Speaker 3: All right, thank you for saying so.

1967
01:46:24,400 --> 01:46:27,679
Speaker 6: I think we have a new Breaking Points premium subscriber there, hope.

1968
01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:29,960
Speaker 3: So I think I think General steeals hooked.

1969
01:46:30,720 --> 01:46:32,280
Speaker 5: It's good you say that, Ryan, because you can now

1970
01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:35,679
Speaker 5: go to Breakingpoints dot com to subscribe, as our producers

1971
01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:37,840
Speaker 5: are telling us to make sure we remind you breaking

1972
01:46:37,880 --> 01:46:40,479
Speaker 5: Points dot com. And the thing is with Counterpoints, if

1973
01:46:40,520 --> 01:46:43,120
Speaker 5: you are a premium subscriber, you get the full show,

1974
01:46:43,960 --> 01:46:47,920
Speaker 5: uninterrupted early on YouTube, as opposed to the few clips.

1975
01:46:47,720 --> 01:46:50,120
Speaker 3: Spotify and all those other corporate platforms.

1976
01:46:50,240 --> 01:46:52,840
Speaker 5: Right yeah, So you get to support our work and

1977
01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:56,400
Speaker 5: continue coverage of issues that mainstream media, so called mainstrea

1978
01:46:56,400 --> 01:46:59,919
Speaker 5: media doesn't want to touch, like psychedelics for veterans super important.

1979
01:47:00,120 --> 01:47:02,160
Speaker 5: You don't have to, you don't often hear about it elsewhere,

1980
01:47:02,560 --> 01:47:04,760
Speaker 5: and if you subscribe here, we will do our best

1981
01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:06,040
Speaker 5: to continue bringing coverage.

1982
01:47:05,840 --> 01:47:06,160
Speaker 9: Just like that.

1983
01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:09,080
Speaker 6: All right, Chryslsaga be here tomorrow. We'll be back here

1984
01:47:09,400 --> 01:47:11,040
Speaker 6: next week. Thanks for joining us,