Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: you know, there was a video that was circulating over
Speaker 1: the weekend and I posted on social media about it,
Speaker 1: which was a fundraiser apparently that was held by Kansas
Speaker 1: Republicans where you could pay money and assault a mannequin
Speaker 1: of President Biden. And I have to tell you that
Speaker 1: there is nothing funny about it. I think that these
Speaker 1: people are absolutely fucking deranged. And the fact that the
Speaker 1: Republican Party, because the Republican Party is filled with white people,
Speaker 1: that there are no investigations, there is no surveillance, there
Speaker 1: is nothing that is done for this white supremist, politically
Speaker 1: violent group of domestic terrorists in training. That's what the
Speaker 1: Republican Party is. And they love to tell you that
Speaker 1: it's lone wolves, and they love to tell you that
Speaker 1: the people that we saw bringing guns and zip ties
Speaker 1: and knives and bombs and cocktails and building up of
Speaker 1: gallows were just fucking tourists. Meanwhile, in nineteen eighty five,
Speaker 1: a black neighborhood was bombed in Philadelphia because it was
Speaker 1: being led by black liberationists. Any time that there has
Speaker 1: ever been a successful movement for black liberation in this
Speaker 1: country where black people are actualizing their power as citizens
Speaker 1: and coming together as a collective either to exist outside
Speaker 1: of government constraints or use government for their well being,
Speaker 1: they are done away with. Their leaders, are killed, the
Speaker 1: members are jailed, right all in the name of, you know,
Speaker 1: public safety and a national security threat. White people pose
Speaker 1: the biggest national security threat to this country. And I'm
Speaker 1: talking about those that pledge their allegiance to the Republican
Speaker 1: Party to Donald Trump, who are anti democratic, pro violent,
Speaker 1: pro authoritarian. And these people are just allowed to continue
Speaker 1: on as if their behavior is totally fucking normal, and
Speaker 1: it is not, and we need to stop treating it
Speaker 1: that way. Because if you change the color of their skin,
Speaker 1: if you change their religion, you change their orientation, then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, mainstream media has a different conversation
Speaker 1: to have. We should be having a different conversation because
Speaker 1: they are a threat. Coming up next my conversation with
Speaker 1: the president of the Center for Our American Progress, Patrick Gaspard.
Speaker 1: And in this conversation, Patrick and I talk about what
Speaker 1: their Democratic Party needs to do moving forward. We talk
Speaker 1: about the Heritage Foundations twenty twenty five and what is
Speaker 1: at stake in November. That conversation is coming up next, folks.
Speaker 1: I am very excited to welcome back to WOKF Daily
Speaker 1: the president of the Center for American Progress, Patrick Gaspard. Patrick,
Speaker 1: you know, I remember and I talk about this with
Speaker 1: you every time that you come on. My time at
Speaker 1: the Center for American Progress, being surrounded by some of
Speaker 1: the most thoughtful, brilliant minds who had a vision for
Speaker 1: how we shape our country, how we expand progress, how
Speaker 1: we expand rights and freedoms, how we engage in information
Speaker 1: and storytelling and create policy that matches the needs of
Speaker 1: the American people. It was an inspiring time my time
Speaker 1: at the Center for American Progress because it felt like
Speaker 1: we were on an upswing. Right. This is during the
Speaker 1: Obama years, and now, you know, I want you to
Speaker 1: be able to offer up to the listeners. What does
Speaker 1: it feel like to be at the center of an
Speaker 1: organization and institution that is about creating ideas and opportunities
Speaker 1: for progress when we are in a state of regression,
Speaker 1: and the regression feels like it is everywhere, coming from
Speaker 1: every angle.
Speaker 2: Danielle, you always frame things up perfectly, which is why
Speaker 2: you are dearly missed at the progress and I'm always
Speaker 2: pleased to be able to join you in conversation. You're
Speaker 2: right that we've seen a sea change in this country.
Speaker 2: The way I describe it is the period that you
Speaker 2: just defined was the age of aspiration, and now we've
Speaker 2: shifted from that into the age of anxiety. This is
Speaker 2: a moment where the entire public debate is defined by
Speaker 2: this notion of security and insecurity. Right, there's a way
Speaker 2: that Shrump and the MAGA and all of his acolytes
Speaker 2: are trying to exploit a sense of insecurity. There's economic secure,
Speaker 2: there's personal security, but there's also cultural security, which they're
Speaker 2: weaponizing and deploying into the election cycle in ways that
Speaker 2: I'm happy to talk about. But we really have shifted
Speaker 2: from the age of aspiration to the age of anxiety,
Speaker 2: which is understandable when you consider that you have an
Speaker 2: entire generation that went through the Great Recession, a very
Speaker 2: slow and lagging recovery through that recession, got to even ground,
Speaker 2: and suddenly saw all of our democratic norms upturned with
Speaker 2: the election of Donald Trump, and then so the entire
Speaker 2: global economy freeze again, Danielle, with a pandemic that, instead
Speaker 2: of uniting folks actually pull the curtain back on all
Speaker 2: these cleavages that exist in somebody. And sometimes it feels, Danielle,
Speaker 2: that I'm working at cap at a moment when half
Speaker 2: of the country has turned into Linus from the Peanuts
Speaker 2: Gallery and Charlie Brown, where he's walking around with that
Speaker 2: blanket and he will not let anyone be that blanket
Speaker 2: away for him from him. So half the electorate is
Speaker 2: feeling that insecurity, more than half feeling that insecurity, and
Speaker 2: terrified that both Democrats.
Speaker 3: And Republicans are going to pull that blanket away.
Speaker 2: And at a time when people don't trust institutions that
Speaker 2: the way they used to government, that's church, that's business,
Speaker 2: it's across the board and media time. They don't trust institutions,
Speaker 2: they're putting all of their trust in individuals.
Speaker 3: So when a download comes forward and.
Speaker 2: Says I am your justice, I am your retribution, and
Speaker 2: if not for me, you'll have disaster, they feel as
Speaker 2: if you know what, I'm going to lean on these
Speaker 2: simplistic solutions and I'm going to listen to this individual
Speaker 2: who's telling me what I feel in my gut, which
Speaker 2: is that these institutions are rigged against me, they're corrupt,
Speaker 2: and they're not trying to bring me forward.
Speaker 3: So it's a destabilizing time.
Speaker 2: The tectonic plates have shifted under us, and those of
Speaker 2: us who are at CAP and from your platform, we
Speaker 2: still have an obligation to lift up an affirming vision
Speaker 2: that unite, that pulls us forward and defines exactly what
Speaker 2: progress looks like in economic inclusion, what progress looks like,
Speaker 2: and putting a scaffolding around rights like abortion, what the
Speaker 2: progress looks like when we are all of us trying
Speaker 2: to build a more participatory civic democracy with voting and
Speaker 2: with real access. So it's a challenging time, but it's
Speaker 2: also a moment of real opportunity, Danielle, because if you
Speaker 2: and I are completely honest, even in that period of aspiration,
Speaker 2: we knew there were a lot of folks who were
Speaker 2: being left behind, who were being ill served by institutions,
Speaker 2: and so sometimes you understand you have to do the
Speaker 2: work of reforming institutions in order to be able to
Speaker 2: save them.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that trust is a really important
Speaker 1: word and is kind of a marker of where the
Speaker 1: anxiety is being weaponized. And also exasperated. Right that there
Speaker 1: was this feeling. I think that during the Obama years
Speaker 1: that we could trust that each generation was going to
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to be better than the last. Right,
Speaker 1: that the promise of America that made America an aspirational
Speaker 1: place was this idea that you were afforded the benefit
Speaker 1: of your parents and your grandparents and your great grandparents'
Speaker 1: work to be in a better place than they were.
Speaker 1: And then, all of a sudden, through what I call
Speaker 1: on this show, the forces of greed, we have seen
Speaker 1: an absolute backsliding and an erosion of that American possibility,
Speaker 1: that economic growth that would happen with generation to generation.
Speaker 1: We're talking about young people that have more degrees, more
Speaker 1: knowledge right than their parents and grandparents, but more debt
Speaker 1: and are less likely to buy a home and get married.
Speaker 1: And so when we think about trust, right, the trust
Speaker 1: and faith in the promise of this country that has
Speaker 1: now faltered for an entire generation, what does it look like,
Speaker 1: in your opinion, for us as progressives to be able
Speaker 1: to regain that trust or at least say, we may
Speaker 1: not ever get back to what your parents and your
Speaker 1: grandparents experienced, but we can get to a better place
Speaker 1: than where you are right now.
Speaker 3: So you're asking the right question.
Speaker 2: I would push back on at the very end, Danielle,
Speaker 2: on this notion that we would communicate that we can't
Speaker 2: get back there again.
Speaker 3: I think we can.
Speaker 2: But I think we can only get there if we're
Speaker 2: honest and if we're building platforms of accountability. Everything that
Speaker 2: you said that lays out that there was a moment
Speaker 2: when folks believe that the second devices that they made
Speaker 2: would accrue to the benefit of the next generation. That
Speaker 2: all felt real and right, and it felt as if
Speaker 2: there was a linear trajectory. It all got disrupted at
Speaker 2: about the moment of the Great Recession, and folks felt
Speaker 2: already before that moment that there was this asymmetry that
Speaker 2: existed between the kind of profits that massive corporations were
Speaker 2: making and the distance between how they rewarded themselves and
Speaker 2: renumeration to folks who were on the front line of
Speaker 2: providing services, providing care, keeping the engine of the economy
Speaker 2: going and growing in Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York, California, elsewhere,
Speaker 2: but not really getting the benefit of that. So that
Speaker 2: had already been disrupted, but it got blown wide open
Speaker 2: during the recession, and then folks saw big businesses being
Speaker 2: rewarded for the mistakes that they made, for their callousness,
Speaker 2: getting bailed out, while homes were going under, were being foreclosed,
Speaker 2: And immediately people realized that this new generation that was
Speaker 2: advancing into the economy, the generation of the millennials, were
Speaker 2: really the generation that would take on the affordability crisis
Speaker 2: that would make it impossible for them to get to
Speaker 2: level playing ground and to meet the kind of games
Speaker 2: that their parents and grandparents made that seemed to be
Speaker 2: assured to the next generation. So your your assessment is
Speaker 2: spot on, and we can't underestimate how that was part
Speaker 2: of creating this real sense of disparity and location of trust.
Speaker 2: All of that has been hardened in the algorithmic personalization.
Speaker 3: That we all live in.
Speaker 2: There that really lifts up skepticism and cynicism about organizations,
Speaker 2: about institutions in a way that makes it impossible for
Speaker 2: us to believe any of the facts. The writer Eli Powerser,
Speaker 2: who wrote the great book The Filter Bubble, said recently
Speaker 2: that the data doesn't show and demonstrate that the data
Speaker 2: works explaining to people know how we're going forward, and
Speaker 2: facts don't matter and we've lost a sense of a
Speaker 2: common narrative in our society. Now, my notion of why
Speaker 2: it's possible to get back to where we were or
Speaker 2: all hangs on a sense of how we have to
Speaker 2: organize towards accountability and we have to celebrate and take
Speaker 2: advantage of successes that we've had.
Speaker 3: How do I mean that? Think about this for a second, Danielle.
Speaker 2: As a result of actions taken by this current president,
Speaker 2: by President Biden and Democrats in Congress, they've been able
Speaker 2: to roll back, be transparent, and expose excessive banking fees
Speaker 2: in this to the tune of over five billion dollars,
Speaker 2: which is about one hundred and seventy dollars per banking family.
Speaker 3: It's a huge deal.
Speaker 2: But at the same time that they've done that, the
Speaker 2: banks are pushing back, they're suing, they're taking the government
Speaker 2: to court around these regulations. And you have a political
Speaker 2: party on the other side of this that are defending
Speaker 2: that greed and that interest and are trying to stop
Speaker 2: the progress that we've made with that regulatory framework. So
Speaker 2: there's a way that the legislation that's passed by Biden
Speaker 2: and Democrats should and can we help us regain a
Speaker 2: sense of trust that the government is an institution that
Speaker 2: can create accountability that's going to benefit me directly in
Speaker 2: my bottom line. But that notion has to be held
Speaker 2: up as a sharp contrast to help people understand that
Speaker 2: they have a role and the choice to make because
Speaker 2: these fights are ongoing. You can't talk about protecting democracy
Speaker 2: without talking about the obligations of citizenship and the choices
Speaker 2: that citizens have to make.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, they're fighting the big banks.
Speaker 2: They have an obligation to tell us about it and
Speaker 2: to bring us on the journey with them, But we
Speaker 2: have an obligation to take up our choice in a
Speaker 2: way that will strengthen the regulatory framework, that strengthens the institutions,
Speaker 2: and that makes it possible for that next generation to
Speaker 2: get another rung up the ladder to be solidly middle class.
Speaker 2: So there's a synergy there, I believe fundamentally in organizing
Speaker 2: towards accountability, whether or not it's against big oil, find it,
Speaker 2: big pharma on the price of prescription drugs, big banks
Speaker 2: as I just described, So.
Speaker 3: That's really key and important to it.
Speaker 2: But it's also important Danielle, and you know we're having
Speaker 2: this conversation during the week of the State of the Union.
Speaker 2: It's important that leadership come forward to folks and talk
Speaker 2: in a robust way about that accountability and rally us
Speaker 2: to the fight that's going to get us on the
Speaker 2: other side of these challenges.
Speaker 1: I believe right that when Biden came into office, I
Speaker 1: believe that he thought that Republicans were better than they were.
Speaker 1: I believe that he was hearkening back to a time
Speaker 1: when you could, you know, be disagreeable and have dinner
Speaker 1: and we were still cronies and friends, and that he
Speaker 1: could get the country back to that place because he
Speaker 1: was a known entity, right, unlike Barack Obama. And so
Speaker 1: what he has realized and very harshly over the last
Speaker 1: couple of years, is that those days are gone. That
Speaker 1: the Republicans that he was able to call on and
Speaker 1: come to the table with no longer want to be
Speaker 1: at the table. As a matter of fact, they want
Speaker 1: to blow up the table, right. And so when we
Speaker 1: talk about getting to a place of fighting right, because
Speaker 1: I believe, and as you know, and as everyone who
Speaker 1: listens to this show at the very least understand, is
Speaker 1: that this is the most consequential election of our time.
Speaker 1: I tell people. I don't care if you don't like
Speaker 1: Joe Biden. Right, this election is not between Joe Biden
Speaker 1: and Donald Trump. It is between authoritarianism and freedom. Right,
Speaker 1: That's what the election is really between. And I wondered
Speaker 1: if you think that the Biden campaign has the ability
Speaker 1: to narrate the dangers that America would face if in fact,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump or any Republican were to become president again.
Speaker 1: Given the Heritage Foundation's twenty twenty five project.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, I'm so glad that you brought
Speaker 2: up Heritage twenty twenty five. And I'll say something about
Speaker 2: that in a moment just for me. That kind of
Speaker 2: makes clear, crystal clear, exactly what the states are.
Speaker 3: You're right about the enormity.
Speaker 2: Of this election, Danielle, But you and I also know
Speaker 2: that folks are tired, right because we you know, we
Speaker 2: told them that the twenty sixteen election was the most important,
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty election was the most important, tu mid
Speaker 2: terms were the most important. Now we're knocking on their
Speaker 2: door and telling them, you know what, we know that
Speaker 2: you have saved our democracy countless women. Yes, come about
Speaker 2: now do it one word time, because the stakes are
Speaker 2: higher than they've been before. So there is a there
Speaker 2: is real fatigue there, and you're right, there's in some camps,
Speaker 2: in some quarters a lack of enthusiasm, and there are
Speaker 2: many reasons for that. There's the you know, the challenge
Speaker 2: of cost inflation and folks feeling that just can't catch
Speaker 2: a break at all. They're not entirely sure what things
Speaker 2: like the Infrastructure build and the Investment Reduction Act all
Speaker 2: means in their lives, and we have to do a
Speaker 2: better job of landing that squarely in their living rooms
Speaker 2: and at the kitchen.
Speaker 3: Table when they're trying to settle their bills.
Speaker 2: But there's also, as you know, the challenge of the
Speaker 2: humanitarian crisis that has control in Gaza, that the US
Speaker 2: has responsibility and has to lean in hard and use
Speaker 2: its strength to compel long term settlement and peace there.
Speaker 2: So there's that, but you're right that Project twenty twenty
Speaker 2: five by the Republicans brings us into hard focus. I
Speaker 2: bring your audience's attention to a meeting that Donald Trump
Speaker 2: is having at the very end of this week with
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister of Hungary, Victor orbon who is one
Speaker 2: of the worst extreme authoritarians that we have in this planet.
Speaker 2: Somebody who was elected through democratic means and then managed
Speaker 2: to suspend the instruments of democracy in his country, in
Speaker 2: the courts and the economic ministries and in the media.
Speaker 2: He is a model for Donald Trump. So Victor Orbon
Speaker 2: served a term as Prime Minister. He lost his election
Speaker 2: the very first time he was in office. He had
Speaker 2: extreme ideas but didn't even understand the mechanics of governance
Speaker 2: and didn't know how to execute on them. Came back
Speaker 2: into office and God does he know how to organize
Speaker 2: inside of the administrative state in Hungary and execute on
Speaker 2: his extremism in a way that is marginalizing rights in
Speaker 2: the country. Donald Trump expects that he's going to have
Speaker 2: the same playbook. People need to appreciate that in his
Speaker 2: first term, Donald Trump has some guardrails. There were institutional
Speaker 2: Republicans who were still in Congress, There were Republicans who
Speaker 2: were in his cabinet, who puts some guardrails around some
Speaker 2: of the most extreme instincts that he had on democracy,
Speaker 2: on workers, on the rights of women. He's not going
Speaker 2: to make quote that mistake this time around. He's been
Speaker 2: very very clear about that. Project twenty twenty five for
Speaker 2: your audience, is an ultra right wing playbook that would
Speaker 2: upend the constitution, rule of law and pave the way
Speaker 2: for Trump to grab much more power for himself and
Speaker 2: his extreme allies while implementing his authoritarian dreams. It would
Speaker 2: be a body blow to the fundamental rights of everyday Americans.
Speaker 2: The Heritage Foundation, extreme right wing activists, and anti democracy
Speaker 2: Koch Brothers and dozens more have spent millions of dollars
Speaker 2: on this project. Their aim is to literally dismantle governance
Speaker 2: as we know it. One of the core elements of
Speaker 2: their agenda, Danielle, is to fire as many as fifty
Speaker 2: thousand non partisan career public servants who are dedicated, who
Speaker 2: are serving all of us across this country, and they
Speaker 2: want to replace them with a binder full of vetted extremists.
Speaker 2: They've already identified twenty thousand of such people that they
Speaker 2: have been a database that they intend to populate the
Speaker 2: federal government with, many of whom have already been on
Speaker 2: record willing to flout the law and norms and put
Speaker 2: personal and partisan loyalty ahead of the nation's best interests.
Speaker 3: It is a.
Speaker 2: Bone chilling document that cuts across women's bodily autonomy, looks
Speaker 2: it goes right at really exploding their notion of how
Speaker 2: to deploy censorship in our public schools with book bannings.
Speaker 2: It's going to double down on the Trump tax cuts
Speaker 2: that we all know benefited the extremely wealthy in this
Speaker 2: country while stripping us of the ability to have essential services.
Speaker 2: They're going to go hard at entitlement, social security and
Speaker 2: medicare programs.
Speaker 3: And on foreign.
Speaker 2: Policy, they intend to blow up the allianceship that we
Speaker 2: have in NATO with the European Union and they will
Speaker 2: literally turn Ukraine and other nations over to Vladimir Putin.
Speaker 2: I could go on about this agenda. It is extraordinarily dangerous.
Speaker 2: And here's the thing. It is not a fantasy for
Speaker 2: these people. It is literally a blueprint of how they
Speaker 2: will govern. So you're right, you know, folks, I understand
Speaker 2: why folks are frustrated with the pace of change. I
Speaker 2: understand that people are bewildered about some of the investments
Speaker 2: that have been being in government. They're not really sure
Speaker 2: how it lands, and they're upset about cost spiraling out
Speaker 2: of control, and some are upset about foreign policy. But
Speaker 2: folks need to be able to hold up the mirror
Speaker 2: to project twenty twenty five, which tells us very very
Speaker 2: clearly how these folks with Donald Trump at the helm
Speaker 2: will up end society as.
Speaker 3: We know it.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for laying that out so extraordinarily clearly,
Speaker 1: because when we talk abstractly about democracy and about what
Speaker 1: is at stake, you know, I think that there is
Speaker 1: an ego that is attached to a lot of Americans
Speaker 1: that it can't happen here, It won't happen here, And
Speaker 1: what they don't recognize is that it is happening if
Speaker 1: you go into states like Alabama, like Texas, like Florida,
Speaker 1: like Tennessee. They are using the Red States as their
Speaker 1: petri dishes and their workshops for what they want to nationalize.
Speaker 1: And Project twenty twenty five just lays it out and
Speaker 1: it's not a secret, and that's what I also want
Speaker 1: to be. Anybody can go to Heritage Foundation and download
Speaker 1: this nine hundred page document and see from start to
Speaker 1: finish what their vision is. My last question for you, Patrick,
Speaker 1: is you know, in knowing that and in knowing that
Speaker 1: this type of blueprint is backed by billionaires and hundreds
Speaker 1: of millions of dollars, what is our mechanism, right is
Speaker 1: what is our vision and who is funding it right?
Speaker 1: Because when we look at the Heritage Foundation and we
Speaker 1: look at a LinkedIn for right wing extremists of twenty thousand,
Speaker 1: I'm saying, where is the progressives? Where is the left's
Speaker 1: version for what they see for America for generations to come.
Speaker 3: I can give you two responses to that, Danielle.
Speaker 2: One, progressives are not as good at building for power
Speaker 2: as the right way in this country.
Speaker 3: That's a real critique that we have to take up.
Speaker 3: That's one.
Speaker 2: The second is, of course, I'm going to tell the
Speaker 2: Center for American Progress and brag about the fact that,
Speaker 2: working without broad coalition, the ecosystem that we sit in,
Speaker 2: we are pulling up together what it means to be
Speaker 2: able to invest in the care economy and the family
Speaker 2: economy as we go forward. We're being clear and what
Speaker 2: it means to codify the decision Will v. Wade and
Speaker 2: to extend protections down to the state level. There's a
Speaker 2: clear and convincing case that we're able to make about
Speaker 2: what the green transition looks like in America and how
Speaker 2: it's going to accrue to the benefit of average citizens
Speaker 2: if we double down on it.
Speaker 3: In a second, bite Harris's term.
Speaker 2: We're also trying to make sure that we do this
Speaker 2: within the arc of storytelling and social identity that builds
Speaker 2: broad consensus Danielle. And of course, we're going to remind
Speaker 2: everybody of the gains that have been made in this administration,
Speaker 2: from forty million new jobs to inflation being down nearly
Speaker 2: sixty percent from its high in twenty twenty two, etc.
Speaker 2: But we're also going to tell really simple stories about
Speaker 2: what it means to further invest in the expansion of
Speaker 2: healthcare in this country and the fact that you have
Speaker 2: folks like you. I'll give you an example of a
Speaker 2: woe named Robyn Craicroft from Missouri who was able to
Speaker 2: retire because she's now paying thirty five dollars a month
Speaker 2: for her insulin as opposed to the thousands of dollars
Speaker 2: that she was paying under Donald Trump and previous administrations
Speaker 2: in this country.
Speaker 3: Being able to take the wholesale successes and make them
Speaker 3: retail and intimates that people get, Oh, what the difference
Speaker 3: is here? And this is why I want to continue
Speaker 3: to double down and bet on this team. And this
Speaker 3: direction is the responsibility that we're giving ourselves in this
Speaker 3: extraordinarily fraught and yet opportunistic moment.
Speaker 1: Well Patrick, as always appreciate you making the time for
Speaker 1: woka app in any way that we can continue to
Speaker 1: help amplify the work of Center for American Progress and
Speaker 1: your partners consider us a place to have your voices
Speaker 1: and your policies and your idea is heard. We really
Speaker 1: appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Danielle. We appreciate you. I'll see you on
Speaker 3: the socials.
Speaker 1: On this That is it for me today. Dear friends
Speaker 1: on woka app as always, Power to the people and
Speaker 1: to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke
Speaker 1: as fuck.