1 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: I'm Caroline Hinder, Bloomberg's world headquarters and neal that I 2 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: made Lovelow, also in New York City. This is Bloomberg 3 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: Technology Special Day coming up. Apple racing too ready in 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: house chips by and it has big implications for its suppliers. 5 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Shares of brock On dropped on the Bloomberg scoop will 6 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: discuss in a moment, and a big tech rally loses 7 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: steam as FED officials signal interest rates going beyond five 8 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: pc and earnings come into focus as well as CPI. 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: Just around the corner this Thursday, semiconductors outperform and Chinese 10 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: stocks law back after Science of Government is winding down 11 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: its tech crackdown on data protection, on online gaming and 12 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: investments in foreign entities. We want to dig into that 13 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: scoop because it did move markets, So please to say 14 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: to talk about the replacements of chips and go really 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: for its homegrown components and the implications on its supplies 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: as well. Mark Gum and he was there with the 17 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: story it did move fake time. Next, just talk about 18 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: what's new here? Is it the pace at which they're 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 1: doing it? So we've known for some time that Apple 20 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: would be moving away from qual Calm for its cellular modems. 21 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: Right now, the cellular modem, the qual Calm chip is 22 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: what allows the phone to connect to data network, so 23 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,639 Speaker 1: you can make phone calls, connect the internet, download apps, email, 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: basically do whatever you need to do when you're away 25 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: from WiFi. So we've known that, we also now know 26 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: to your point the timing of that that's going to 27 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: be end of twenty four or early. It's going to 28 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: start in one iPhone model. Take about three to four 29 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: years for that transition to actually occur. Now, the main 30 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: new piece of information is, in addition to working on 31 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: its own cellular modem, Apple's working for the first time 32 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: on its own WiFi chip. So that's the Broadcom component 33 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: that allows the iPhone and it's other devices to connect 34 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: to WiFi. And this is actually a combined chip, so 35 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: it also lets the phone connect to Bluetooth as well. 36 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: So it's the component not only for cellular from Qualcom 37 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: that they're working on, but the component that also allows 38 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: you to connect to wireless and bluetoo. So they really 39 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: want to own the entire wireless stack inside of its products. 40 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: How that for is the relationship between the two companies. 41 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: What are executives saying about bracing of a future relationship. Yes, 42 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: so the Apple Qualcom relationship has been, you know, dundling 43 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: down for some time. Qualcom has publicly said the last 44 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: few years that it expects for Apple to design them 45 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: out of its products. Remember there was this major lawsuit 46 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: over patents and royalties. Apple settled that because it really 47 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: needed a five G phone with the iPhone twelve and twenty, 48 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: and there was no way to come to market with 49 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: the five G device unless they used Qualcom, so they 50 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: needed to come to I believe it was a six 51 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: year licensing agreement and a four or five year supply 52 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,679 Speaker 1: agreement at that time for the Qualcom modems inside of 53 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: the iPhones. Now for Broadcom. Broadcom and Apple signed a 54 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: fifteen billion dollar deal a couple of years ago that 55 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: expires at the end of this year, right, And so 56 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: that is also an indicator that there had been some 57 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 1: trials and tribulations between the two companies. And now we 58 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: know that it's pretty clear that Apple is also playing 59 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: design broadcome out. But you look at any major supplier 60 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: of components inside of Apple's devices, you can bet that 61 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: Apple wants to work on its own in house custom solution, 62 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: Mark Kara and I had to completely rip up the 63 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: script for the show today because you have broken one 64 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: story after another. Your other scoop this Monday was that 65 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: Phil Peter sterns sorry, who was the Services VP, is 66 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: leaving the company, leaving Apple according to sources. Why is 67 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: that significant? This is hugely significant. So Peter Stern was 68 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: a very quick riser at Apple. He's the brain, the 69 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: driving force behind Apple subscription business. As part of its 70 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: services business, he led the business side of Apple TV Plus, 71 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: Apple Arcade, Apple News Plus, Apple Fitness Plus, as well 72 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: as the marketing side of all of the the Apple services. 73 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: He spearheaded bundles bundles for content within Apple TV plus 74 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: the Channels service in the TVP but also the Apple 75 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: One bundles. So he was really the brains behind this 76 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: push in services that has made it one of the 77 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: most components of the company's overall business. Now he's leaving. 78 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: What that's gonna do is going to raise the profile 79 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: of Oliver Schuster. He's the head of Apple Music. Now 80 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: he's going to be taking on much of the responsibilities 81 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: of Stern, and you can really probably Shoe and Schuster 82 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: at this point as the eventual successor to Eddie q who, 83 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: as we know, is the person behind all of Apple 84 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: services and has been a top executive, a very senior lieutenant, 85 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: a top three to five person at Apple under Steve 86 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: Jobs and now under Tim cook Mark. I've just got 87 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: back from Cslas Vegas, and you and I've written about 88 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: this together in the past. Apple is never there, not 89 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: normally in recent years at least, but there was a 90 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: big discussion around a r v R and I notice 91 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: your newsletter power on over the weekend looking at three. 92 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: This will be a big year for Apple in the 93 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: realm of a r VR, win't it. So Apple's next 94 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: big thing is a mixed reality headset. It's gonna cost 95 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: about three thousand dollars. They've been working on this for 96 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: about seven years. They're going to introduce it sometime this 97 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: spring March April time frame, talk more about it at 98 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: their developer conference in June, and then released two consumers 99 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: in the fall. So this is a big year for 100 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: Apple in terms of a R and v R. And 101 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've had suppliers who are working with Apple 102 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: and components without product discussing their plans at CS. The 103 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: price point I mean where we expected three thousand. It's 104 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: an earth shattering price point. It's going to be uh, 105 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: let me do the quick math here. It's going to 106 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: be about eight to ten times more expensive than the 107 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: competing product from Meta, but it's also probably going to 108 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: be eight to ten times better than their competing products. 109 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: So I think it's really up to what consumers want 110 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: to do with that, all right, bloombergs Mark gam And 111 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: breaks stories every hour of the day, does the math 112 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: live for us on the show. Thank you. I mean, 113 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: you know, a r VR has been top of mind 114 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: for you and I for a few days now. I 115 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: was at CS where obviously you know that the latest 116 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: consumer gadget that is the next generation that people are 117 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: looking to. You've had your own bit of fun during 118 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: the day on Monday, haven't you? In the realm of 119 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: day r V I have, and I arrived on my 120 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: city bike, So apologies for any like crow that you 121 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: might be able to see in this current footage, because 122 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: I did have it on in my cycling outfit. But 123 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: I got to play with the Quest Pro, which I'm 124 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: not sure if you like you've laid hands on the 125 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: Quest too from metas now I happen to have a 126 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: quest to my home, but I hadn't played with a 127 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: pro check out my leggames. I'm sorry, but I was 128 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: looking at all these latest tribex are was my favorite. 129 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: You just saw me standing up using that. Basically I 130 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: was a DJ this morning. And again it's all it's 131 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: you're immersed within this idea of your being taught how 132 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: to DJ, how to like build up the sounds, how 133 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: to move them. Then I was doing here as I 134 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: sat down, more of the focus on Horizon workspace. So 135 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: this is really where perhaps Metal wants to get you 136 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 1: excited how the future of work rooms, how the future 137 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: of us interacting at work might differ. And I have 138 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,799 Speaker 1: to say I was impressed. And I just think before 139 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: anyone's critical of things like n f t S, things 140 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: like Peloton, things like the metaverse and VR, you've got 141 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: to play with these things before you can have any 142 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: sort of viewpoint here. And I actually really like the 143 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: fact that I could be sat with just a small 144 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: computer and actually through the wonder of the R and 145 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: a R I could have like surround screens. I could 146 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: be having this beautiful view while I worked. It's basically like, 147 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: if you're going to stay in an airbnb and have 148 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: a small office, you could go and do it to 149 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: a really wonderful degree. I think for me, you know 150 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: that when it comes down to the technology, it comes 151 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: down to that price point, you know, three thou dollars 152 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: for the Apple first generation of a r VR headset, 153 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: and Mark mentioned it that the quest to at least 154 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: is is many factors cheaper than that. But as you said, 155 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: I have experienced it, you know, down in in East 156 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: Palo Alto, and that I actually felt, I did feel 157 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: a bit disoriented. But for me, what was amazing was 158 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: the workout. You know, I'm you know, I'm a Peloton user, 159 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: I'm a Jim goer, but the lightsaber game for one 160 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: of a better expression. Really interesting workout, sweating. We'll dig 161 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: up that footage for another time. Great, great stuff. I mean, 162 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: we want to get out there. That's the whole point. 163 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: So if you're watching this and you're working in the 164 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: realms of a r v R, give us a call. Yeah, 165 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: we want to play with these things. Coming up What 166 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: to watch in tech this year? Of course, two FED 167 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: officials sirring some cold water and traders this Monday, after 168 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: signaling the interest rates could top five we'll discuss all 169 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: of that and more with Emily Bower sock Hill of 170 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: Bowerstock Capital Partners. Next, this is Bloomberg. We started off 171 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: this show by telling you pretty volatile day and training overall, 172 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: particularly when you're looking and actually tech stocks managing to 173 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: whether this sell off, whether some of the concerns about 174 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: whether the Federal Reserve is still very intent on hiking 175 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: rates above five and managed to be galvanized by the 176 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: reopening story from China. But what about the rest of 177 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: three Let's dig into it with Emily bowerstock Hill seeo 178 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: founding partner of Bowerstock Capital Partners, fifty million dollars in 179 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: assets under management. Emily, great to have some time with you, 180 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: and let's go broad to start this whole conversation off. 181 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: When you look at the days tradeing and you try 182 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: and perspective out what look like you Are you bullish? 183 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: Are you are you barish? When you get in terms 184 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: of your sense, Well, I would classify myself as bearish, 185 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: But you know, I think that's the consensus out there 186 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: right now. So I don't think there's anything terribly uh, 187 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: you know, revolutionary about saying that. I think, particularly in 188 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: the tech sector, you know, we are at the end 189 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: of you know, we've essentially had a bubble burst that 190 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: had been building for two or three years. And I 191 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: started in this business back in the early two thousand's, 192 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: and so I have a very vivid memory of, you know, 193 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: what happened in those years after the you know, the 194 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: first tech bubble burst. So I would be surprised. You know, 195 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: I think that there's some really good names in the 196 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: tech sector, but I would be very surprised to see, 197 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: you know, a quick, happy rebound. You've got to be 198 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: very selected within the sector. And I mean everyone that 199 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: you talk to sort of keeps referencing the interest rate environment. 200 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 1: That is why we saw the claps and evaluation two. 201 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: But is that the story for you? Now? Do we 202 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: think enough of the prices, the overall valuations have thinned 203 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: out enough that it's less about that, it's more about 204 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: individual stories and individual stocks. As you say, yes, I 205 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: think the interest rate increases for the most part have 206 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: been priced in. I think the problem here is that 207 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: you look at a company like Amazon or Facebook or 208 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:34,479 Speaker 1: Shopify or Salesforce. You know, they really during the pandemic, 209 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: they spent with abandoned and they they they increase their workforce. 210 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: They spent very heavily on technology, and now reality is 211 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: hitting and capital is much more expensive, and this is 212 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,599 Speaker 1: why we're seeing the layoffs and we're seeing the slowdown 213 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: and spend and so I while I think the worst 214 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: is behind us, and there's certainly large parts of the 215 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: tech sector Apple, for example, Microsoft that are probably fairly valued, 216 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to see the kind of 217 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: growth rates that we saw over the last ten years 218 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: over the next term. So I think it's you know, 219 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: these are these are premium companies, right, I mean, I'm 220 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: not suggesting that anyone goes sell their Apple or their Microsoft. 221 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: In fact, it's probably a good a good time to 222 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: gradually accumulate it. But don't expect the next five years 223 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: to be like the last five. Emily, Caroline and I 224 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 1: would love to get in some of the single names 225 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: and specific subsectors in a moment. But there's this idea 226 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: that actually, in the coming weeks, when we get fourth 227 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: quarter earnings, irrespective of the trajectory for rates or the 228 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: terminal rate, we're kind of bracing for this earnings recession. Right, 229 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: I was looking on the Bloomberg terminal. I think that 230 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 1: the consensus is for earnings on the NAZTAC one D 231 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: to drop two percent or two point two percent. This 232 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: year is an earnings recession, and earnings recession opposed to 233 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: an economics procession the biggest rick risk to tech right now. 234 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: I am expecting an earnings recession. I think the interest 235 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: rates have increased so quickly. You know, the Fed raise 236 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: seven times in two and it takes time for that 237 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: to trickle through two earnings. And so I think we're 238 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: going to have some earning disappointments. And you know, I 239 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: think we're gonna we're gonna see that certainly through this 240 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: fourth quarter reporting season. So I you know, I share 241 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: the consensus view. The only thing that's alarming to me 242 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: is typically when there is this much of a consensus, 243 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: it's wrong. So it does give me some pause. Right, 244 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: let's get to some of your top picks for three. 245 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: I know that you yourself hold some of these stocks, 246 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: indeed they're in your funds as well. But the names 247 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: that jump out and me are not just the chip makers, 248 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: but the chip equipment makers. We're showing on our screen. 249 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: LAMB Research t SMC. Is there is there a broad 250 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: rule of thumb you're applying here to those names. Yes, 251 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: I think actually Lamb Research and Teradyne have very very 252 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 1: similar competitive dynam m X think of them as being, 253 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, the equipment services of tech the white slumberge 254 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: is the oil services of the energy sector. And so 255 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: they are going to be a little bit more resilient 256 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: in this very cyclical business. They're a little bit less 257 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: affected by decisions like the one that Apple just made. 258 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: They're they've got very they've got high barriers to entry 259 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: because the amount of capital that has to go and 260 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: build to building some of this equipment is very substantial. 261 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: So I think and they all they're both very well 262 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: managed companies with strong cash flow, with strong balance sheets 263 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: that are that are very disciplined, and they've had to 264 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: be in an industry like this, so it's their their 265 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 1: companies to own collected dividend and you know, wait for 266 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: some of this these semiico doctor issues to work their 267 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: way through. You know, it was a terrible year last 268 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: year down over all for the sector. So there's definitely 269 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,239 Speaker 1: value there if you're selective, and a lot of geopolitical 270 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: risk will wrapped up in that, whether it's China US 271 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: as well. I mean we've talked sort of through therefore, 272 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: areas that you're kind of being cautious but still holding 273 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: onto the Microsoft's, the apples, then talking about the areas 274 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: that you're looking to actually like buy into. But I mean, 275 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: why should you just be getting out of avoiding at 276 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: all costs. This is a little bit risky, as say, 277 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: but I think some of these I p o s 278 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: we call them broken I p o s. I'm sure 279 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: there are many people who use that term. But there 280 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: were a lot of technology companies that I p oed 281 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: in that I think have a long road to recovery. 282 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that they're not good companies. And I 283 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: would put in their palant here, a sauna, a firm, 284 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: big commerce. You know, some of these companies that now 285 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: are going to be stretched by how expect and so 286 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: the capital is. So I would probably avoid those companies. 287 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: Now I would wait. I think there's going to be 288 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: a better entry point down the road. It's interesting. Emily 289 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: barwasot Hill, CEO and founding partner of Bostock Capital Partners. 290 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: Thank you, you know, I'm just looking at my Bloombell 291 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: Caroline Palanteer, you know, not the best here in two 292 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: the v makers that were the worst performers literally on 293 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: then as that one she's saying, still not the time, alright, 294 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: time now for your top tech calls. Starting with Jefferies 295 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: placing Uber at a bias, the firm sees some upside 296 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: from improving sentiment on the ride hailing company's profitability. Meanwhile, 297 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: Jeffreys dropped Piers door Dash to an underperform rating and 298 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: Lift at a hold. Next up, Oracle upgraded to overweight 299 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: from neutral at Piper Sandler is It's cloud transformation takes hold. 300 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: Piper also notes that fiscal might be a water said 301 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: year for the software company, with growth in operate operating 302 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: profits and earnings to share accelerating to more than ten percent. 303 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: And finally, Tesla auto stock investors had a pretty rough 304 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: year in two is. The industry suffered through supply change, 305 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: disruptions and inventory and balances, and Tesla not spared. Therefore, 306 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: Bank of America cutting its price target for the ev 307 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: maker from two seven five to add and thirty five 308 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: dollars and reiterating a neutral rating. Carrec interesting though Tesla 309 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: managed to be rallying on the day. We want to 310 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: dig into Tesla price cuts and not just on this 311 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: price target. Let's talk about the price cut ramification on 312 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: the actual car, particularly in China, because we know that, 313 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: of course they have been cutting their prices over there, 314 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: but showrooms therefore have been overwhelmed, not with potential buyer 315 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: zed but protesters, people going and saying, look, you've taken 316 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: down the price. What about me? What about the amount 317 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: that I've just paid for my recently purchased electric vehicle? 318 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: And I think all of these cut prices, I mean, 319 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: what was it fourteen percent we cut last week, the 320 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: second time in four months. Not only are they way 321 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: cheaper to go and buyer from China than they are 322 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: in the US, but you would be pretty annoyed if 323 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: you just purchased one at a higher price point. Yes, 324 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: second cut in China, since third cut since October or 325 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: second recently, and you know, I think the executives have 326 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: taken to Twitter to say these are the lowest they've 327 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: ever been. And what's fascinating is the discount to US 328 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: sale prices, So they're basically saying we missed the boat, Yeah, 329 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: we want in. Doesn't work like that, I mean on 330 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: a much smaller scale. I remember when I bought my 331 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: full price Peloton many people are actually buying them, like 332 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: higher than full price. I mean, if we all went 333 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: back to the depths of COVID and thought about the 334 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: supply chain headaches, we were all spending above and beyond 335 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: on many crystals. We didn't know that was going to happen. 336 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: So we now look how much cheaper that they are. 337 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: But I'm not running down to Palaton and saying I 338 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: want on my money back. But I can understand the 339 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: frustration when they seem seemingly happen overnight, right and now 340 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 1: Peloton follows up with more insensitives to kind of move 341 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: that inventory of cheaper bikes and also trying to sell 342 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: the more expensive hardware as well. I think on the 343 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: e V side, what's interesting is there are many more 344 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: players in China than there are here in US, and 345 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: there are other well there's just other names. B y D, 346 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: for example, raise prices and had a record quarter of deliveries. 347 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: So I mean, but what's the price point deferential for 348 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,479 Speaker 1: a b y D versus a text that are they 349 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: much more luxurious price point at Tesla not not the 350 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: huge premium that a Mercedes for example, But there's just 351 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: more choice for the consumer right here in the US, 352 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: the price range is much more well said. Welcome back 353 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: to Blomo Technology. I'm Caroline Hide in New York alongside 354 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: in the flash mister ed Ludlow want a joy. Meanwhile, 355 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: all we've gotta do is talk global. While we're both 356 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: sat here in New York. We want to talk about 357 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: the page potentially being turned in China for the text 358 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: docks is it now? The hand sang Tech indext jumped 359 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: after a top Central Bag official actually said that they 360 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: clamped down on the internet sector. That's drawing to a close. 361 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: Ali Baba led the rally, which comes, of course after 362 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: a major squeeze on Chinese tech markets more broadly for 363 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: the past two years no less, and the drop seems 364 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: to have stepped from regulatory scrutiny on data production, on 365 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: online gaming, and a government pushed to untangled investments in 366 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: certain firms. But meanwhile, let's just think of the poster 367 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: child of Chinese entrepreneurship, one billionaire Jack Mar. He's actually 368 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: giving up a controlling rights of ant group that's the 369 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: fintech part of his empire. Really, it's a sign that 370 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: Mar is retreating yet further from his online empire following 371 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: China's tech crackdowns, and he has mostly disappeared from public 372 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: views since giving a speech that, of course rather criticized 373 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: Chinese regulators. Just think that huge scuttling of the ANT 374 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: listing still having repercussions. It still feels like such a 375 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: catalyst for US listed tech shares this Monday. That and 376 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: the fact that ants appointed individuals with their own voting rights, 377 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: basically taking it out of Jack Mar's hands. Meanwhile, Beijing 378 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: is spending big money as the US aggressively pushes for 379 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: more semiconductor manufacturing market share. That includes the passage of 380 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: the Chips Act, which brought more investment to US made 381 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: chips or future US made chips, as well as this 382 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: embargo on China chip exports from the US. Bloomberg's in 383 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: King covers all things chipped for US. You've made a mind. 384 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: Back in the San Francisco Bureau, we talked a lot 385 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: about US policy to restrict China's access to chip making 386 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: equipment and and and the latest generation of chip technology. 387 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 1: My question to you is what has China's response been. 388 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: What has China's policy been to advance their own semiconductor industry. 389 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's a very good question. I mean The 390 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: way to think about this is to think about what 391 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: South Korea did, think about what Taiwan did, and it 392 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: took them basically thirty years to get to the position 393 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: wherein where some Song is the world's largest chipmaker t 394 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: SMC is arguably the world's most advantage chipmaker. China has 395 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 1: been following that path. Unfortunately, the US are not supporting 396 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: China in the way that they supported Taiwan and South Korea, 397 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: and therefore China has got to this point where they've 398 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 1: spent billions and really haven't got to the point where 399 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: they can do things like withstand these restrictions that the 400 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: Americans are putting upon them, and really, you know, there 401 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: at a point now where they're having to re evaluate 402 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: how they're going to pursue this going forward and perhaps 403 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: take an even longer approach to gain that independence that 404 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: they're so desperately crave. This is one of the most 405 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,719 Speaker 1: read stories on the Bloomberg Terminal and Bloomberg dot com. 406 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: Aggressive US chip strategy forces China into a corner. You know, 407 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 1: in that corner, they're not just throwing money at this, 408 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: although they are to it to a large extent that 409 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: I guess it's a policy action right where they're saying 410 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: to China's state and private enterprises, you guys have to 411 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: find us a technological solution here. What else are they doing? Yeah, 412 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: I mean it's been a vacillating policy that you know, 413 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: they've put billions to work and then they found that 414 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: they didn't really get what they wanted. And then they've 415 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 1: gone after some of those people who have actually been 416 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: in charge of it and they said, look, we've wasted money, 417 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: We've done this. So it's really not clear what they 418 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: can do at this point because some of those key points, 419 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: some of those key choke points, really in the hands 420 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: of the Americans. Unless they can get the machinery and 421 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: the technology from the Americans, they're going to struggle. And 422 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: it's going to be a really really long road to 423 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: domesticate that and take it away from the point where that, 424 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: you know, they're subject to external factors. And I feel 425 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: like it was the beginning of last week where some 426 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: US chip companies got a bit of a bit higher 427 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: because there was suddenly talk of China sort of giving 428 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: up taking its foot off the accelerator when it comes 429 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 1: to its own ship manufacturing. These rumors going to circulate 430 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: in such a way. Yeah, I mean it's you know, 431 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: we've we've got all kinds of rumors, all kinds of 432 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: speculation going on, and including our own reporting which says, 433 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: what are the Europeans going to do? What are the 434 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: Japanese going to do? Are they going to get him 435 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: on board? Is this situation for China going to become 436 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: even more extreme? Are we heading to more of a standoff? 437 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: On the flip side of that, obviously, some of the 438 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: U S companies don't like the fact that they're being 439 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: locked out of their largest market and clearly lobbying against that. 440 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 1: So a lot of evan flow in terms of the 441 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: conversations in places like Washington about how this is going 442 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: to play out, whether we see easings or whether we 443 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: see an increasing climbed down on China and the potential 444 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: out you know, consequences will see in the marketplace. Just 445 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: get us up to speed a little bit with just 446 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: China's focus more broadly in technology and because we talk 447 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: here of them clearly in defining wanting to double down 448 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: and ensure that they can take on the U S 449 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: when it comes to chip manufacturing. But in the same 450 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: breath we were just talking about one Jack mar who 451 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: basically has been in exile ever since he spoke out 452 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: against the Chinese regulators. And many of these billionaires have 453 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: been forced to sell down their overall ownership and certainly 454 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: reduce their overall billions too. How do you think China 455 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: sits with its technology right now? Again, I think that 456 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: it's a fluid situation. I was speaking to a CEO 457 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: who said he's concerned that, you know, the leadership in 458 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: China is disillusioned with what electronics with semi conductors and 459 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: the internet has done for their economy and hasn't helped them, 460 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: and he's concerned that, you know, there's going to be 461 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: a turning away from this, that they'll go back to 462 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: heavy industry or or something else to try and you know, 463 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: carve out an economic niche for China. And the other 464 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: side of it is that well, perhaps China's learning it's 465 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: lesson that it needs to play better in the world 466 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: economy and in order for these industries to flourish, and 467 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: we'll see a new era of cooperation. Hard to say 468 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: which way it's going to go at the moment, and 469 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: certainly in you know, the decision makers that we're talking 470 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: to seem to feel like, we're going to be pursuing 471 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: on a harder line with China for the foreseeable future. 472 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: Bean like Caroline, and I'm sure you're head spinning from 473 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: all the headlines that hit the Bloomberg this Monday from 474 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,959 Speaker 1: one Mark German and all his Apple reporting. I mean, 475 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: the key headline to move markets was that app always 476 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: going to move to use in house technology in place 477 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 1: of broad Calm and also Qualcom chipsets and modems going forward. 478 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 1: We've got marks take on the Apple side of this story. 479 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: What is the chip maker take on this side of 480 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: the story. Yeah, I mean the quick take for Qualcom 481 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: is they've been talking about this for a while. We've 482 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: been reporting about this for a while, and they've acknowledged 483 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: it and said, you know, it's kind of a matter 484 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: of time. We'll enjoy this while it lasts. And guess what, 485 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: it actually lasted a bit longer than we thought. So 486 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: on that side, not so much of a shock. On 487 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: the Broadcom side. As recently as December, Hottan, the CEO 488 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: of Broadcom, was talking about how good their WiFi chips were, 489 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: their combo chips were, and how you know, why would 490 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: you go anywhere else? So this is clearly more of 491 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: a shock for them, and this is something that I'm 492 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: sure analysts investors are going to focus on more heavily. 493 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: In king Resident Brittain s f made of one at 494 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: Ladlower Mine and also giving it the odd fashion tip. 495 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: It feels like you guys with the night a nice 496 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: sea through classes that no tie, so look thinking thank 497 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: you so much. I meanwhile, like Eddie, while you're here, 498 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: let's let's talk about your favorite thing, our favorite thing, 499 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: and of course let's think about EVS a little bit more. 500 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: But when it comes to China, what's so interesting is 501 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 1: not just some of the price drops that Testa has 502 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 1: been doing, but also the talent moves right. And this 503 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: was a big story at the end of last year. Yes, 504 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: so we're talking about Tom jew who was kind of 505 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: the mastermind but behind the construction and ramp up in 506 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: performance of the Shanghai plant. And as we reported about 507 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: a month ago, he's been in the United States, both 508 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: in the Bay Area in Fremont and in Austin basically 509 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: installing his own people and trying to make those factories 510 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: better because honestly, Shanghai tests production is kind of the 511 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: standard that Tessa wants to hit sources tell me that 512 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: this guy is serious. He works super hard, and you 513 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: know we've done a profile of him on the Bloomberg 514 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: tumnel The question the market has is this a future 515 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: Elon's successor, because there has been a lot of talk 516 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: right not only about Elon musk handling over the reins 517 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: over at Twitter, but many wandering about key man risk 518 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,959 Speaker 1: and about ensuring that you have a deep bench for 519 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: his role of CEO A Tesla's Yeah. The confusing thing 520 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: is that Ellen himself talks about wanting to be on 521 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: the engineering side, less about the pentil pushing side. Tom 522 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: jew is also very much on the engineering side. So 523 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: where we net out we don't know, but he's certainly 524 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: a nim to watch in the future. It's a great 525 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: read up and go have a look on dot Com 526 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: on the terminal two. All right, coming up the top 527 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: I p o s to watch with equities ends. Are 528 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: there going to be any Well, he's got a list, 529 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: we'll see. This is Bloomberg. Oh, we just tased the 530 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: head to the I p o S initial public offerings. 531 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: Will there be any? Yeah, look right now and focus 532 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: as a few in Asia, it's been a bit busier 533 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: start the year there, But what can we expect in 534 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: the US and abroad? Yeah, I mean we're looking for 535 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: a sense of direction and energy in the I P 536 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 1: O markets. I thought, let's look at two and some 537 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: of what happened two seven billion dollars raised globally. Two. 538 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: That's a pretty significant drop around from one. And that's 539 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: where context is king because what happened in one, well, 540 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: we had not yet embarked on that aggressive rate policy, 541 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: not just from the FED but central blanks banks around 542 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: the globe, but also had the Spack wave right where 543 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: a number of special purpose acquisition companies also listed there 544 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: shares in hopes of acquiring target companies. That's sort of 545 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 1: spack enthusiasm dropped off in two. A part of what's 546 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: happening there was energy in China and energy in Middle 547 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: Eastern markets. But actually flip up the boards and let's 548 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: talk about the US because you can't quite see it. 549 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: But on the far right hand side that is kind 550 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: of listing volumes for two in the US around twenty 551 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: four billion, nothing compared to one, and again higher rates 552 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: having a real impact there. Volatility and markets also kind 553 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: of the start of the conversation around recession globally clear 554 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: having an impact the question, as you said, Asia or 555 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: the US three, there is some green shoots and we 556 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: can ask our next guest about this, but block trades 557 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: there with me. Block trades are taking place to a 558 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: certain extent. There's this idea that you see some secondary 559 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: offerings as a precursor to some primary things down the road. 560 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: I pios down the road IPOs take a really long time, 561 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: that you can make a secondary transaction happen a lot 562 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: more quickly. So we're looking for some optimism. But that's 563 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: what happened over the last two years. And whether those 564 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: trends continue, don't ask me, I ask our next guest, 565 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: because there's a marketplace for these secondary some transactions in 566 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: the secondary market, and well it's ecurity ZN Well. Pleased 567 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: to talk about all of it with Phil Hazlet. He's 568 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: a co founder on chief strategy officer that platform pre 569 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: i PO investing. At the moment, any of those pre 570 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: IPOs looking to our natural exit route, do you think 571 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: many of them will in any way get to market 572 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: this year. I think we're going to probably see some 573 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: companies come to market. In the second half of two 574 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: th three, we saw a pretty frozen I p O market, 575 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: as you just previously alluded to, and that's starting to 576 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: thaw out a little bit. But all it really takes 577 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: is maybe just one or two of these bell Weather 578 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: pre I p O tech companies to finally test the market. 579 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: And you've got one success, you probably open up the 580 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: market for a bunch of others. I know you have 581 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: some specific names you're watching. Three. I kind of want 582 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: to ask you the reverse question first, which is worst 583 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: performers on the Nos one twenty two where Rivian Blockbuster 584 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: I p O. I covered it deeply in one right 585 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: six biggest I p O in U S history. And 586 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: then you have Lucid second worst performer, or maybe the 587 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: other way around. On then as that one hundred, they 588 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: right raised a lot of money in the pipe from 589 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: their trans spack transaction. Those were the two worst performers. 590 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: What does that tell you about you know, some hesitancy 591 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: to go public in twenty two. Maybe we looked at 592 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: those two companies and said we don't want that to happen. 593 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: That's right. I think those two companies are a good 594 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: example of what worked in two thousand two. Why don't 595 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: I show you my revenue projections for two thousand, twenty 596 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: six and two thousand seven and a zero interest rate environment. 597 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: And now when the rubber meets the road, you start 598 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: to see companies that are operating in a three four 599 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: five percent interest rate environment. You see risk come down 600 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: and the risk appetite come down, which means that allocators 601 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: into I p o s are now saying profits first, 602 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: profit first, profit first. But you've built all of these 603 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: companies with growth in mind. Right. Venture capital investors were 604 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: feeding money to these companies in two thowy two at 605 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: very high valuations, and the smart founders actually took that 606 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,479 Speaker 1: money perversely and are going to wait until they can 607 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: come to market at evaluation that they think makes more sense. Well, 608 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: it's interesting that perhaps it has been forcibly ground to 609 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: a halt, because there's still a lot of tech companies 610 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: who are listed with very deep pockets, but they can't 611 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: do M and A at the moment because of regulation. Now, 612 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: one company like that was ARM Holdings, and you're saying, look, 613 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: they might actually look to list, they still want to 614 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: go public. That's right, that's right. I think that's a 615 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: simpler avenue for ARM to go through them to try 616 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: to test out any type of M and A activity 617 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: in the current anti trust environment. Blizzard is probably another 618 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: example of, you know where it's been really hard to 619 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: do large scale M and A and so you kind 620 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: of think about what tools you had available as a 621 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: private company about a year and a half ago. Everything 622 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: was at your disposal, spacks, large acquisitions, I p o s, 623 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: and you've kind of got none of them right, and 624 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: so as a result, you see very little activity, except 625 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, we're starting to see some more activity 626 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: on the secondary markets, which we typically see as a 627 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: leading indicator for companies getting ready to go public. Vin 628 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: Fast is a name you've identified. I kind of I 629 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: didn't find it surprising, because you know, there's a large 630 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: investor base that's still interested to find the next Tesla. Frankly, 631 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: but again we went through that very long illustration of 632 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: what happened to Lucid and Rivian. Do you not think 633 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: that vin Fast is at risk of of the same 634 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: reception that those two names got. It's a great question. 635 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: Has exposure to a slightly different geography, which I think 636 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: an opportunity um but also I think there's a lot 637 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: of learnings from the gosh, you know, fifty or seventy 638 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: five e V and light our companies that have gone 639 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: public on what you really have to show to investors, 640 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: the reality of actual contracts, of actual deliverables, of actual 641 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: supplied trains up and running, uh and falling short of those, 642 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: I think you're going to have a really tepid ip 643 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: O response. And so I think there's a lot of 644 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: learnings for companies that are coming out that basically said, 645 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: thank goodness, we didn't do this a year ago. I 646 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: want to ask you about the burden of proof. You 647 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: know I continued covering Rivian Gone, the Bloomberg look at 648 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: the course Le Earning story, and you know I've been 649 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: writing them at the time. The I po, as you say, 650 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: revenue is distant, is the burden of proof now higher 651 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: where pre revenue companies in particular are kind of a 652 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: no go for investors? Or is that still an opportunity. 653 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right. You've got to be a 654 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: company doing hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue if 655 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: you want to be one of these companies that goes 656 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: public in two thousand twenty three. The way I see 657 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: it is that investors are not willing to pay for 658 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: that risk of the unknown anymore. Um, you're kind of 659 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: seeing it and why things are going completely quiet. The 660 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: positive side though, is that all of those unicorn companies 661 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: of which there's a thousand plus, many of them are 662 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: at the hundred or even billion dollar revenue level, and 663 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: I think those are the companies you're going to see 664 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: that are going to test the markets. And so really 665 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: the kind of the water mark you would have seen 666 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: for an I p O fifteen twenty years ago, maybe 667 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: thirty million in revenue for a million in revenue. Leading 668 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: up to the dot com bubble, it was eyeballs, right, 669 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: and now we've kind of recalibrated and said you have 670 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: to show revenue growth and you have to show a 671 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: path to profitability. Note but far earlier and maybe a 672 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: very loyal fan base like a Reddit for example. But 673 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: I'm interested for you said that in the secondary market, 674 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: you have seen a little bit of pick up. Who 675 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: is buying, who is selling? Who are the players that 676 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: are at the moment. Yeah, it's a great question. The 677 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: buyers we've seen are pretty it's pretty interesting. And new 678 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,919 Speaker 1: phenomenon is adventure capital firms and growth equity firms, which 679 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: typically invest just in primary capital races are finding that 680 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,760 Speaker 1: that market as well as completely shut. You know, Sequoia 681 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: goes to a company and says, I saw you raise 682 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: a ten billion last year. Look at the market house 683 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: five five billion, and that founder tells them to kick 684 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: rocks right, Why would I do that? I already have 685 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: a bunch of cash on hand. Uh. And so those 686 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: venture capital firms are saying, well, if I want to 687 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: invest these companies at market prices, I've got to look elsewhere. 688 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: And a lot of times they find that they're eager 689 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,399 Speaker 1: sellers in the secondary market, which, to answer your question, 690 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: are employees ex employees and maybe your early investor that 691 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: had a lot of returns on paper and have some 692 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: very angry limited partners saying where's my cash? Right? And 693 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: if you can realize that now there would be a 694 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: good idea, just totally fascinating. Yeah. I'm not speeches, but 695 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: what I would say is that, you know, there's a 696 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: long list of names that we didn't even get to, 697 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 1: and my find very quickly has got about ten seconds. 698 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: But pent up demand? Is there a bit of angst 699 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: in investors that they want a big I PO Yeah, 700 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: I think investors want to see an I P O 701 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: and they want to see success. Right. If you didn't 702 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: invest in lean hogs and crude oilto you didn't really 703 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: make any money, right, And so I think people just 704 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: want to be part of a winning strategy again. And 705 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: so seeing some of these really healthy pre apio tech 706 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: companies come to market, I think we'll really kind of 707 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: open up the gates. Phil could talk to you for 708 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: a very long time. Come back at cuity Zen co 709 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: founder Phil Haslett, where some activity apparently is going on, 710 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: and I think that is an interesting one. I mean 711 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: at the moment, I like that. Read that read it 712 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 1: was on the list. Yeah, read it's coming back to 713 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: its own Did you see what barth and beyond? Right? Yeah, 714 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,280 Speaker 1: there's still like Dallas. Is it's fair? You know, Phil 715 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: is one name. He did a very good job going 716 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: through a list of us. But there is so much 717 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: skepticism out there. You know, everyone agrees. First half of 718 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: this year in the technology sector at least very unlikely 719 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: to see a big i PA or even a little IPA. 720 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Yeah, there's gonna be an awful lot of 721 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: people talent who are wanting to buy a house, have children, 722 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: make life steps, and they need to be able to 723 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: have a liquidity event in some way, shape or form 724 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,760 Speaker 1: a whole lot of news in the world of soccer. 725 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: Or look, there's two Brits here. It's called football in 726 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: across the world. It's going viral today because Kata Sports 727 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: Investment Fund. It's looking at well, the Premier League no 728 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: less for its next big investment, Manchester United, Liverpool FC, 729 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 1: Totdham Hotspur's they're among the clubs being targeted by KATA. 730 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: No deal apparently is imminent, but some clubs, including Liverpool 731 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: and MANU, they are open to a sale. Meanwhile, the 732 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: Premier League already has two clubs with Middle Eastern owners, 733 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: Man City by Aberdabi based City Football Group and Newcastle 734 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,280 Speaker 1: United recently acquired by the Consortium for Saudi Arabia's Wealth Fund. 735 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: Now remember already going viral of late had been Nick 736 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: Kata was hosting the most expensive World Cup ever, more 737 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 1: than two hundred billion invested in infrastructure over the past decade. 738 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: But what caught my iron on only on Twitter was 739 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: these deals and potential investments. Was one man that's pretty 740 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: close to your heart. What Gareth Bale? What was it 741 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: the third most Google thing today on Google Trends? Gareth 742 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 1: Bale retiring age thirty three. I'm surprised, I'll be honest. 743 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: You know, he had a disappointing World Cup by all accounts. 744 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: He was the Whales, which is a nation of three 745 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:45,399 Speaker 1: million people. By the way, this tolobal superstar from you know, Tottenland, Throich, 746 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 1: Real Madrid, and then went on to play for l AFC. 747 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: And he hasn't really said while he's retiring of and 748 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: then this is a transition and a change in his life. 749 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,479 Speaker 1: But I think a lot of people were like, really, yeah, 750 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: so you couldn't even watch him on the West Coast 751 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: living in San Francisco and watching foot always been really hard. 752 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: But I am surprised he's retiring and he is a 753 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: global superstar from Wales, joining the pantheon of legends like 754 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: Tom Jones, Katherine Zeta Jones, all the Joneses. But you know, 755 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: it's a real surprise. And look taking to Instagram, taking 756 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 1: to Twitter, not just people of Whales, but fans of 757 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: football across the world. I think they're surprised that he's 758 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: hanging up his boots. And isn't it just notable the 759 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: way in which these announcements are made. He did it 760 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: with a public statement immediately onto Twitter, onto social media, 761 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: directly to his fans. It's just a new way in 762 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: which people sort of well suggests their their life's curvature 763 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: and whether or not you're putting a CV on LinkedIn 764 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: or whether you're telling everyone about your next job move 765 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: by the power of various social media. It's definitely that 766 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: you waited. I'm sad, but thank you, Gareth Bale. That's 767 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 1: all I'll say. Wow, that does it for this emotional 768 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: addition of romag technology. I'm so pleased you are here 769 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,919 Speaker 1: all weeks. The emotional about Gareth Bell, but we're also 770 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: going to be pretty excited about space, right Dan Hart, 771 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: version Orbit CEO, and I think maybe someone else joining 772 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: us tomorrow. Don't forget to check out our podcast wherever 773 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 1: you find your podcast Terminal, Apple, iHeart Radio, and Spotify. 774 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg