1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: One of the most successful business executives in the world 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: over the past ten years has been Bill McDermott. He 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: took SAP to record heights and now is doing the 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: same with Service. Now had a chance to sit down 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: with Bill McDermott and his offices in New York and 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: had him described to me how he came from very 7 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: modest roots to the top of the corporate world, and 8 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: how he inspires his troops, inspires his customers, and loves 9 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: his job. So in October of twenty nineteen, you surprised 10 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: the business world by stepping down as the CEO of SAP, 11 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: a very very large company whose value had more than 12 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: double during your co CEO position and CEO position, and 13 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: you took a position with a much smaller or less 14 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: known company Service Now. Usually people when they leave a job, 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: they go to a bigger company. Why did you go 16 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: to a smaller company? 17 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 2: Well, I saw the future and where it was going. 18 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: First of all, I want to say I had a 19 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: great run at SAP, and it was a pleasure taking 20 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: him from thirty nine billion to one hundred and sixty three, 21 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: really inspiring lots of people in customers, and it was 22 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 2: a wonderful experience. But after seventeen years nearly ten as CEO, 23 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: I was already to do something different. And when I 24 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 2: saw a service now in the marketplace, I knew what 25 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 2: it was, and I knew what it could do, and 26 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 2: I knew with my background, I was a pretty good 27 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: cultural fit for what Service now needed to scale it. 28 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: So let me ask you what does service now really do? 29 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: Tell me, in simple English language, everybody can understand what 30 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: do they actually do? 31 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very good question, David. It basically drives 32 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: productivity in work. So think about tech today. Every CEO 33 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: you talk to is going to tell you I have 34 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: to digitize to survive. Forty percent of the CEOs say today, 35 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 2: if I don't digitize my operations, my company will no 36 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: longer be viable in less than a decade. So we 37 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: were the it backbone for companies all over the world. 38 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 2: How do they manage their assets, run their operations, secure 39 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: their operations, all things digital having to do with it. 40 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: That's what we started. But then, as you know, the 41 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 2: employee experience, hybrid work, all of these concepts became so important. 42 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: How do I hire people, how do I onboard them, 43 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: train them, provide them all their services? On a mobile device. 44 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: We do it. 45 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: Now about two years and two and a half years 46 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: ago when you took over your position now as the 47 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: CEO and you're the CEO Chairman of Service Now. During 48 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: that period of time, the technology world has had some 49 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: challenges for sure, and there's been layoffs and other things, 50 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: but you have more than doubled the value of service 51 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: Now during this period of time, the revenues are more 52 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: than doubled, operating earnings are up about eight times, and 53 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: you've doubled the number of employee based So what was 54 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: your secret sauce When everybody else was going this way, 55 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: you were going this way. 56 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: Well, I give all the credit to the original founder, 57 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: Fred Luddy, because he had the idea and he built 58 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: the platform, and lots of people came into the company 59 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 2: and expanded on that platform. But the original idea was 60 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: to give people technology that truly enabled them to do 61 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: things they could never have done before. So it's really 62 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 2: a product centric engineering company at its soul. What I 63 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: tried to bring to the company is continue to expand that, 64 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 2: continue to build innovation into that platform, but at the 65 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: same time, build a truly global software market leader where 66 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: everybody understood the brand, the hungry and humble nature of 67 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: how we focus on the customer at customers everything here, 68 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: and ultimately the value that we deliver. 69 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: Somebody watching this should they say that should buy this 70 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: guy's stock because he can do another next couple of 71 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: years as well. Or is it you kind of plateaued, 72 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: you can't keep going at the rate you've been going. 73 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: I assume I think we're just getting warmed up. You know, 74 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: it's really interesting. Very few software companies ever make it 75 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: to billion, even less make it to five billion, even 76 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: less than that make it to ten. Will be the 77 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: fastest enterprise software company to have ever gotten to a 78 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 2: billion five and ten organically. In fact, it's never been 79 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 2: done before. The world we see is so bright because 80 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 2: we're like five percent penetrated in the enterprises even that 81 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 2: use our service now, so there's many that don't. And 82 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: I believe like NET New Brands, NET New logos that 83 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 2: are not doing business with us should see a show 84 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 2: and say, I got to get in touch with that guy. 85 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: And the ones that are already doing business with us 86 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 2: need to say he's talking about a completely different approach 87 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: to digitizing my company. Are we looking at them closely enough? 88 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 2: If I've achieved that, then we'll go in places. Now. 89 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: Sometimes people who run technology companies have a technology background. 90 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: They're engineers. Yeah you have an MBA from Northway, but 91 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: you're not an engineer. So does the technology jargon go 92 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: past you? Or you can understand all what the engineers 93 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: are saying when they come up with some new product. 94 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: I've been around it for a while now, so while 95 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 2: it's true that I'm not a coder, it's also true 96 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 2: that I understand where the idea can fit into a 97 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: customer's world. I'll give you an example with AI. The 98 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 2: expectation of AI is going to be the iPhone moment. 99 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 2: When the consumer begins using AI in the consumer world, 100 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: they're going to expect that the business leaders to bring 101 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 2: an AI in to make their world better in the 102 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 2: office environment. That is why this is the iPhone moment 103 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 2: for the enterprise. There's no doubt about that. So I 104 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: know that we have to be the market leader in AI, 105 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 2: which is why we started working on it. And the 106 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 2: first acquisition I did was LMNAI, which was an AI 107 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: company in Montreal, Canada, and we did that in two 108 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: thousand and twenty. We're working on it all twenty nineteen 109 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 2: as soon as I came in, But then twenty twenty 110 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 2: we actually executed that. And the reason for that was 111 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 2: they had a gigantic group of researchers, data scientists, and 112 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 2: engineers exclusively working on next gen AAI in large language models. 113 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 2: And that's how Calm we teamed up with Jensen and 114 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 2: in Video and we started building them on the now 115 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 2: platform and we saw what it could be. And now 116 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 2: that it's in the platform, we see the commercial sensation 117 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: it'll be for us, but more importantly, we see the 118 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 2: productivity and the cost savings and revenue growth that our 119 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 2: customers will get from it. 120 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: Is AI going to reduce the amount of jobs that 121 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: people have now? 122 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 2: I don't believe so. I think if you look at 123 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: the market today, we have a seventeen year situation where 124 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 2: it was seventeen years ago when the job market was 125 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 2: this type where the openings outpaced the opportunity for candidates 126 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: to jump in those jobs. Because the candidates aren't there, 127 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 2: so we rarely are capitalizing on technology to fill that void. 128 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 2: For example, I talked to a CEO just yesterday of 129 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: a major financial services company was interested in AI, but 130 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 2: he said, I just can't get enough people to do 131 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: what I need to have done. I said, well, how 132 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: many engineers do you have? He said, I have seven thousand. 133 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: What you need to do is AI enable them, because 134 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: now you can text to code, text to workflow automation, 135 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 2: or even text to new application development. So we can 136 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: make your engineers fifty percent more productive than they are today. 137 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: Look, you've done a great job, but why don't you 138 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: do something more important like running a private equity firm 139 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: in digital transformation? You could do very well financially. You 140 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: ever thought about that? And if not think about it, 141 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: I'm happy to figure out a way to get you 142 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: in the private equity world to. 143 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: Work with you. It'd truly be an honest So we 144 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 2: must think about different ways that I can help you. 145 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: So let's talk about your past. It wasn't preordained that 146 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: you'd be the CEO of SAP or the CEO of 147 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: Service now and at the top of the technology world. 148 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: Where did you grow up? 149 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: I grew up in a place called Amnyville, Long Island. 150 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: I was born in Flushing, New York. Grew up in Amneyville, 151 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: Long Island, and you know it's that long island grip. 152 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: Now, when you were growing up. Were your parents' professional 153 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: workers or were they blue collar workers? 154 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 2: What did they do? I come from a working class family. 155 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 2: My dad worked for con Edison. He was a troubleshooter 156 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: for con Edison, meaning that you called him the Spider. 157 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 2: He went into the manholes and basically worked on those 158 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: high voltage lines to keep the electric on in New 159 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 2: York City, and a very dangerous job, and he was 160 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 2: great at it. 161 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: Was that a safe job? 162 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: No, it was not a safe job, very dangerous job. 163 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: In fact, I always admired my father and the image 164 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 2: that stayed in my mind. He worked the midnight shift 165 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 2: most of the time, midnight to eight. I could just 166 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 2: see him in the driveway chiseling the ice off of 167 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: his windshield, knowing that he was going into New York 168 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: to get into those manholes like the Spider and sod 169 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: of those cables. And that was to put food on 170 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 2: the table and give us a very nice life. 171 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: And I had a great life. But you always did 172 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: some working. From what time did you begin working for 173 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: some money? 174 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: I think the first time was around ten or eleven, 175 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 2: when I was delivering papers door to door in Long Island. 176 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I remember the paper was 177 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: Long Island Press. I don't even think they're in business anymore. 178 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: But my mom, you know, co signed for me because 179 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 2: you had to buy the papers and you got the 180 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 2: money back when you collected it. So she put up 181 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 2: the money for me, got me started. And I'll never 182 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 2: forget what it took to be successful as a paper boy. 183 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 2: Are the same things it takes to be successful today. 184 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: I had to know my customer. I had to know 185 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 2: how you wanted it. Is it in your door? Do 186 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 2: you want it wrapped in plastic? Do you get upset 187 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 2: if I throw it? You know, they were all kinds 188 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 2: of techniques. But why did I do it? Because I 189 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 2: wanted them to be happy and I wanted them to 190 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 2: give me a good tip. 191 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: Well, you wrote a book about your life, and in 192 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: the book you talk about the fact that sometimes people 193 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: didn't pay you and you had to go and kind 194 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: of ask them to pay for two or three weeks. 195 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: Was that hard to do? 196 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 2: It was because you know when I went there and 197 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 2: I asked them for ten bucks, and you know that's 198 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 2: a lot of money for paper. But I'm like, yeah, 199 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 2: but you know you three weeks in the arrears and 200 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 2: the technique there was not only to get to ten, 201 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: but hopefully get twelve so I would get a nice 202 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: tip as well. And you know, I kept very good records. 203 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: Wasn't too automated. It was a little book with check marks, 204 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: and I was just showing them the facts. And if 205 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 2: I show them the facts, and you just you know, 206 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: hard to heart with people theyn't respect you. 207 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: Later, as a teenager, you bought a delicatessen. Yes, how 208 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: old were you when you bought a delicatest? 209 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 2: I think we're about sixteen and that sixteen turning seventeen 210 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 2: something like that. 211 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: Where did you get the money to buy a delicatessen? 212 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: I didn't have any I was working three jobs. I 213 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 2: was working at an Italian restaurant VIP type of ten 214 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 2: iron restaurant, find a supermarket town of Amnueville. Always three jobs, 215 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: whatever I could fit in, and it was kind of chaotic. 216 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 2: And one day so I helped want It sign in 217 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: this deli and I traded in all those hours to 218 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 2: go to the Delhi because the owner said, I can 219 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: give you all the hours you need. But I took 220 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 2: my bow tie from the restaurant, my white shirt, my 221 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 2: tuxedo pants and upgraded the delicatessen to how we would 222 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 2: serve customers as a kid. Because I knew it worked 223 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 2: at the restaurant. I'm like, well, I wouldn't no work here. 224 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 2: And that led to very good relationship because when he 225 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 2: wanted to sell, he couldn't have any buyers because nobody 226 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 2: wanted to buy it because it was sun Mark Industries, 227 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 2: the Sunoco gas station actually owned the land. They'd only 228 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 2: give you a one year lease. He wanted twenty five thousand. 229 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 2: Everyone was like, why would I give you twenty five thousand. 230 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: They could take this lease away from me in an instant, 231 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 2: I said, look, after no one else came to him, 232 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 2: I'll give you five thousand. He said seven thousand with interest. 233 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: You pay me back in a year. If you don't 234 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 2: make your payment, I automatically repossessed a business. I said, great, 235 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: so I still had the machine at that money. No, 236 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: I didn't. It was a loan from him, only alone. 237 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: It was only alone. It was only alone, and I 238 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 2: if I didn't pay him, I wouldn't have had the business. 239 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: But all of the people that brought the beer, bought 240 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 2: the cigarettes, brought the potato chips. All the vendors basically said, 241 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 2: we'll front you the first delivery on the arm, I said, 242 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 2: I don't want anything for free. I'll always owe you 243 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 2: that money. So the day I sell a clothes, you 244 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 2: get your money back. Meanwhile, you know how I got 245 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 2: done money back. That was early days of video games, 246 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 2: and I put asteroids in pac Man and some dinosaur game. 247 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 2: My brother built the wall and I learned this at 248 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: the mall. I saw the kids plucking quarters Antiti's machines 249 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,839 Speaker 2: one after another. I said, Wow, I'll build a game 250 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: room on the side of the store. We did that. 251 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 2: I made more money split the quarters with the guy 252 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 2: that actually owned the machines than I did slicing meat 253 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 2: and making sandwiches. 254 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: What did your parents say, you're supposed to be going 255 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 1: to high school? Did they say, how about going to 256 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: high school? 257 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: I'm so blessed because my mom, who's the best, and 258 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 2: people that I knew that were great friends of mine. 259 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 2: They actually worked in this store when I was at school, 260 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: holding the place up. And then when I came out 261 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 2: of school, I got right behind that counter and worked 262 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 2: till midnight. 263 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 1: All right, So you graduated from high school and did 264 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: you go to college? 265 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: I did. I went to Dowling College. In Oakdale, Long Island, 266 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 2: because I could do all my classes on Tuesday and 267 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 2: Thursday and then be in the store all the other days. 268 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: So when you graduate from college, were you're still owning 269 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: the delicatessen. 270 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 2: Yes, I was, and at that time I made a decision. 271 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 2: I got a job at Xerox, which was a dream job, 272 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 2: and at that time I sold it and then we 273 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 2: invested that money in a great beach house with my 274 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 2: parents down in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. 275 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: So your job at Xerox was to be a salesman. Yes, 276 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: you're selling what was a complicated the time. 277 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 2: But at that time it was copiers, and it was 278 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: electronic typewriters and printers and fax machines and all that. 279 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: So you did that for seventeen years. 280 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: I was at Xerox for seventeen years. I sold door 281 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: to door for a couple of years and then got 282 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 2: promoted and ultimately became a division president and corporate officer 283 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 2: like my mid thirties at Xerox. 284 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: So one time you thought, maybe at the beginning, you 285 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: could aspire to be the CEO of Xerox. But you 286 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: had an offer to leave, and why did you take 287 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: the offer? 288 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 2: I did it because I stopped learning. You know, at 289 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 2: that time, it was like, what else am I going 290 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: to do? All I really want is the CEO job, 291 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: and this steps left before I'll get it, and I 292 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: started think that's not the right reason to stay. So 293 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 2: Gardner Group offered me a job to be the president there. 294 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: I was very excited about that, and I felt that 295 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: it advice and really meeting all the technology leaders of 296 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 2: the world and advising them would really get me sharpened 297 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: up for anything. 298 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: All Right, you took that job, but you didn't stay 299 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: there that long, right. 300 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 2: I didn't know I missed the big technology stage. That's 301 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 2: kind of what I really wanted to do. So I 302 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 2: went to CBL Systems to run worldwide sales and operations 303 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 2: for SEBEL in California, and I learned the software industry 304 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: at CEBYL. 305 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: So after that, you then took a position as the 306 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: head of SAP's America. Is correct now SAP was a 307 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: software company. Well, what was its innovation that made SAP 308 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: such a strong company even at the beginning? 309 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, they call it ERP. Just to break down ERP 310 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,479 Speaker 2: running financial systems for the biggest companies in the world. 311 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 2: Connecting that based on the industry, to supply chains, managing 312 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 2: human resources. Put that into one bucket. You call it ERP. 313 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 2: And when I got hired by SAP, they were a 314 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: very fine company. But in the Americas they had missed 315 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: twenty four were out of twenty five quarters. So it 316 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 2: was really the operation that was bringing down the whole company. 317 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 2: So they had to fix that because they had five 318 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: CEOs in six years of SAP America. 319 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: You became the co CEO of the entire company at 320 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: one point, and then after five years of that you 321 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: became the sole CEO. 322 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I became the co CEO in twenty ten and 323 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 2: the sole CEO in twenty fourteen. And what I can 324 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 2: tell you is it's actually a very nice design. A 325 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 2: lot of people knock the co CEO model, don't think 326 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 2: it can ever work. But in our case, I had 327 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 2: a great partner, Jim Hagemann Snaba, who's a great friend 328 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: of mine still to this day, and we had a 329 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: great orientation around our partnership. We talked every day. Jim 330 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 2: was kind of like missed inside in terms of representing development, 331 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: especially in Germany where we had very large engineering and 332 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 2: I was the guy on the front lines. You know, 333 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 2: moving the number and working with the worldwide operations. 334 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: As you were working at SAP or the CEO. Things 335 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: are going well, the company's in good shape. What motivated 336 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: you really to do something else? I mean, most people 337 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: at the top when things are going well, they kind 338 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: of stay at the top. 339 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think I get like the seventeen 340 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 2: year itch. You know, I love. 341 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: Seventeen years at Zerox, seventeen years at the SUP right 342 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: at exactly. 343 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 2: I think after about seventeen years, you know, I kind 344 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: of like feel like I need to do something else. 345 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 2: So those were two of my greatest experiences, and I 346 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 2: need to change, you know. And I really did want 347 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 2: to take service now because I saw what it could be, 348 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 2: and I really did want to make it the best. 349 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 2: And I felt like my skill set and where they 350 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 2: were and what they needed was a good match. 351 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: So you'll be here until twenty thirty six. In other words, said, 352 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. 353 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: About twenty thirty six, especially with you and private equity 354 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 2: in my future. 355 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: Why has technology been so big as a part of 356 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: the US economy and the global economy. Is it low 357 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: interest rates? Is that going to change? Or is it 358 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: just that we're really good at inventing new kind of 359 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:00,959 Speaker 1: the technology. 360 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 2: Well, low interest rates helped every industry flourish, and it 361 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 2: definitely helped tech because our customers had more capital to 362 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 2: invest in information technology, no doubt. But for our company 363 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 2: and for technology companies, it's all about innovation and what 364 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 2: we're bringing to the world is an end to end 365 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 2: platform for digital transformation. If you look at the twentieth century, 366 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 2: everything was top down, vertically integrated companies, where one function 367 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 2: drove functional behavior. Now everything is cross functional. Companies were horizontal, 368 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: and we brought a platform for end to end digital transformation, 369 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 2: so companies can collaborate, work in teams and get stuff done. 370 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: So for those who aren't experts in digital transformation, what 371 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: actually is digital transformation? 372 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 2: Think of it this way. For a half century, companies 373 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 2: have been buying technology to digitize their businesses. But all 374 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: these companies are locked down in silos now, so they 375 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 2: optimize for functions, but they never understood that the world 376 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 2: would go for complete teamwork, a team orientation. Everything has 377 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: to come together in a horizontal stream of innovations. 378 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: So you're obviously a very good salesman. What is the 379 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: secret to be a good salesman? 380 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 2: You can get anything in this life you want if 381 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 2: you help enough other people get what they want. I 382 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 2: care about what you want. I care about what you need, 383 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 2: and when I understand that, I can compose solutions thanks 384 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 2: to the great team that I'm fortunate to work with, 385 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 2: that matter. And if I say something to you, if 386 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 2: I make a promise to you, no matter what, you 387 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 2: will get that promise kept. I'd never break my word. 388 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 2: And I think that's what it's all about. 389 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: So in your business career, what's been the best advice 390 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: you've ever received. 391 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 2: I think the best advice I've ever received is just 392 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 2: in the long run, play the long game. You know, 393 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 2: people grossly overestimate what they can do in the short 394 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 2: run and grossly underestimate what they can do in the 395 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 2: long run. So I've always tried to take a long 396 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: view and not be so focused on just here and now. 397 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 2: So today I'll have a very complete day in New 398 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 2: York City. I'll meet some of the biggest CEO business 399 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 2: cards in the world. But as I make those trips, 400 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 2: I'm constantly thinking, what do we got to look like 401 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 2: five years from now or maybe even ten years from 402 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 2: now to keep up with having ideas that they don't 403 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 2: even know they need to know about, but we need 404 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,919 Speaker 2: to know where we need to take them. We have 405 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 2: to invent the future we want. We can't wait for 406 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 2: somebody else to do it and try to copy them. 407 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 2: It's already too late. So constantly trying to see around 408 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 2: those corners. 409 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: Long view, what's the worst business advice you ever got? 410 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 2: Go for the money, don't go for the money. And 411 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 2: I would just say, like any career choice you make, 412 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 2: any deal that you do, it's not about the money. 413 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 2: The money is nice to have, but it's much better 414 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 2: to do things that are sustainable. So when you take 415 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 2: a job, do it because you love and on that 416 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 2: culture and you believe it's a match with your personal 417 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 2: DNA and who you really are. When you're doing a 418 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 2: commercial agreement, yeah, the transaction's nice and you want to 419 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: win it and you want to accomplish things, but that 420 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 2: relationship is so much more important because that is sustainable 421 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 2: and it's long term. 422 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: So your ambitions is to grow the company and maybe 423 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: do something else later on after you're happy with what 424 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: you've done here. Any aspiration to ever go in government 425 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: or public service. 426 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 2: You know, I would love to. I do think that 427 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 2: there's a place to give back and to serve, And 428 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 2: I think public service needs executives that have experience, especially 429 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 2: global experience, where they've actually physic been to all these 430 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 2: places around the world and have a sense of culture 431 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 2: and the dynamism of humans no matter where they are located, 432 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 2: and how to really do the right thing, not just 433 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 2: the convenient thing. So it would be an honor to 434 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 2: someday do that up the road. It's way up the road, 435 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 2: but I wouldn't rule it out. 436 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: Now. In twenty fifteen, you were walking down the steps 437 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: of your brother's house and you fell down and glass 438 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: fell into your eye or went into your eye. Yeah, 439 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: can you ebscribe what happened and how you dealt with 440 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: that pass. 441 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 2: Of your eye. It was a rough night because I 442 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 2: had a giant water glass, very thick, slipped on the 443 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 2: stairs and met a concrete foundation and glass and my 444 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 2: face and the glass actually went through my eye and 445 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: cut it in half. And you know, dealing with that 446 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 2: was a pretty traumatic experience, to say the least. But 447 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,479 Speaker 2: so blessed to be here, and I think I have 448 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 2: a greater appreciation for everything. And I've also learned that 449 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: vision is not just about what you see but it's 450 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,479 Speaker 2: how you make other people feel, and how you feel 451 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 2: by making other people feel good. 452 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: So you had us. I read about eleven surgeries to 453 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: kind of save your eye or yeah, and ultimately they 454 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: could not save your eye. 455 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 2: That's correct. I lost that battle, but I think I 456 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 2: want a bigger war. 457 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: Looka, it's an incredible story, and congratulations. You started with 458 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: virtuy nothing and built up a great reputation in so 459 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: many different industries. 460 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 2: So thank you. 461 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: I wish I had bought your stock when you came here, 462 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: but I can still buy the stock in the future. 463 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 2: I guess right, not too late, David. 464 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You 465 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or 466 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: wherever you listen.