1
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly

2
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,480
Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

3
00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,680
Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

4
00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,800
Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

5
00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:32,239
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

6
00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,760
Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

7
00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,600
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

8
00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,639
Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

9
00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,600
Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

10
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:57,520
Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

11
00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,800
Speaker 1: for joining me for the special bonus episode of the

12
00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,960
Speaker 1: thing Therapy for Black Girls podcasts. We'll get right into

13
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:09,480
Speaker 1: our conversation after a word from our sponsors. This July,

14
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,920
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls is bringing our yearly Minority Mental

15
00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,200
Speaker 1: Health Month celebration in person to Atlanta, Georgia. Join us

16
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,720
Speaker 1: Thursday July eighteenth and Friday July nineteenth as we shine

17
00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,560
Speaker 1: a light on mental health professionals and all those who

18
00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,800
Speaker 1: dedicated their careers to holding space for others. Our inaugural

19
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,080
Speaker 1: Holding Space for Healers Therapists Summit will gather some of

20
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,600
Speaker 1: our favorite voices in the field for workshops, seminars, and

21
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,200
Speaker 1: opportunities to connect. You don't want to miss this, so

22
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 1: secure your ticket to wellness by visiting Therapy for Blackgirls

23
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:50,040
Speaker 1: dot com slash Healers. Earlier this week, I got the

24
00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,160
Speaker 1: chance to chat with the one and only Krystal of

25
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,280
Speaker 1: the Read as we discussed her journey to graduating with

26
00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,200
Speaker 1: her master's degree in mental health counseling. As a special bonus,

27
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,880
Speaker 1: we also sat down to answer some of your listener

28
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,800
Speaker 1: letters from the read as well as a few questions

29
00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,840
Speaker 1: that were sent in by members of the TVG community.

30
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,520
Speaker 1: We touched on topics such as feeling like you're behind

31
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,800
Speaker 1: in your career, setting boundaries with abusive parents, sharing a

32
00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,000
Speaker 1: therapist with your friends, and more. If something resonates with

33
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,200
Speaker 1: you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on

34
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,880
Speaker 1: social media using the hashtag TVG in Session or join

35
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,920
Speaker 1: us over in the sister Circle to talk more about

36
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,040
Speaker 1: the episode. You can join us at community dot Therapy

37
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation. So I'm super

38
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 1: excited because we are reconvening for another listener letter option.

39
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,200
Speaker 1: So it was such a thrill to join you in

40
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,840
Speaker 1: Kidfiury on the read years ago to answer some listener questions,

41
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,240
Speaker 1: and so I feel like we have a bit of

42
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,160
Speaker 1: a crossover with some questions that the Therapy for Black

43
00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 1: Girls community has shared, but also a couple of listener

44
00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,280
Speaker 1: letters from the read that we will share an answer together.

45
00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,200
Speaker 1: So Chris, you will start with a letter from you all?

46
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:10,440
Speaker 2: Okay, I sure will. This one comes from Fiona, who says,

47
00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,960
Speaker 2: I'm a thirty three year old mom who has recently

48
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,200
Speaker 2: been diagnosed with ADHD after starting therapy. In order to

49
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,680
Speaker 2: not repeat the bs my parents did to me with

50
00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,800
Speaker 2: my own son eight years ago, I broke up with

51
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,840
Speaker 2: my son's father after finding out I was pregnant and

52
00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,320
Speaker 2: moved back home. That was when I discovered that my

53
00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,760
Speaker 2: father was homeless. To help him out, I signed a

54
00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,640
Speaker 2: lease for an apartment for him. My dad is a

55
00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,120
Speaker 2: stubborn Caribbean man who doesn't take care of himself and

56
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,400
Speaker 2: ignores his diabetes. One day, he stepped on a nail,

57
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,680
Speaker 2: refused to get treatment, and long story short, ultimately lost

58
00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,320
Speaker 2: his leg. Since he is my dad and I didn't

59
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:44,960
Speaker 2: have a partner at the time, I bought a house

60
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,800
Speaker 2: and put my dad's name on it, thinking it would

61
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,200
Speaker 2: help him since rent was going up and his pension

62
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,680
Speaker 2: was not enough to sustain him. But now four years later,

63
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,600
Speaker 2: him just breathing gets on my nerves. When he gets mad,

64
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,680
Speaker 2: he cusses me out and says that I'm a bad daughter.

65
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,360
Speaker 2: He'll cuss me out for literally anything like buying a

66
00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 2: brand of coffee he doesn't like, or accidentally playing the

67
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,040
Speaker 2: wrong lotto numbers for him. I bought a dog to

68
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,200
Speaker 2: give my dad something to do, but he's still cussing

69
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,160
Speaker 2: me out in front of my child. He's probably bored,

70
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,200
Speaker 2: but I cannot entertain him. I work a nine to

71
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,480
Speaker 2: five and I have a six year old who also

72
00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,039
Speaker 2: most likely has ADHD. I ask my family on my

73
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,520
Speaker 2: mom's side, and they all say I should just ignore him,

74
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,039
Speaker 2: that he's losing his mind, and not to take it personally.

75
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,800
Speaker 2: My parents divorced when I was thirteen, so that side

76
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,920
Speaker 2: of the family really does not care what happens to him.

77
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,919
Speaker 2: My parents neglected me and didn't really have time for me.

78
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,160
Speaker 2: As a kid, I was alone a lot and learned

79
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,240
Speaker 2: to find joy in silence and solitude. Now, after all

80
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 2: this disrespect and stress from my dad, I just want

81
00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:41,839
Speaker 2: him out of my house, but he has no means

82
00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,200
Speaker 2: to live on his own. Any advice you can offer

83
00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,600
Speaker 2: is more than appreciated. Thanks again, Fiona. Oo.

84
00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:56,600
Speaker 1: Wow, there's a lot going on here, isn't there? Yeah? Hm,

85
00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,080
Speaker 1: So I think I would start by it feels like

86
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,040
Speaker 1: there is some self compassion likely needed here for Fiona,

87
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,359
Speaker 1: because it sounds like she was trying to make the

88
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,920
Speaker 1: best decisions she could to try to help and take

89
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,600
Speaker 1: care of dead. But it also sounds like she has

90
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,200
Speaker 1: some regrets now, like her saying, oh, him just breathing

91
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 1: gets on my nerves And anytime I hear that, that

92
00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 1: is like an instant sign that like, boundaries have been

93
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,920
Speaker 1: crossed and you have not maybe done a good enough

94
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,440
Speaker 1: job setting clear boundaries for yourself. So I think it's

95
00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,120
Speaker 1: important for her to forgive herself and to be kind

96
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 1: to herself, that maybe she did some things to try

97
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,800
Speaker 1: to help and now she's realizing this is actually no

98
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,240
Speaker 1: longer working for me, and so she doesn't need to

99
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,880
Speaker 1: be super critical over herself and trying to figure out, Okay,

100
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,680
Speaker 1: how do I get out of this maybe, or how

101
00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,440
Speaker 1: do things look different than maybe what I was thinking

102
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:45,159
Speaker 1: they would look like?

103
00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:47,960
Speaker 2: One of the things that came up a lot in

104
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:54,480
Speaker 2: my program was this emphasis on cultural sensitivity cultural awareness,

105
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:59,840
Speaker 2: understanding that the United States is a very western, independent

106
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,120
Speaker 2: and sort of society, whereas a lot of other cultures

107
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,680
Speaker 2: are more collectivists. And so I want to be respectful

108
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,960
Speaker 2: of the fact that you all are a Caribbean and

109
00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,279
Speaker 2: maybe in your culture you don't just leave your dad

110
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,560
Speaker 2: on the side of the road, but that would I

111
00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,400
Speaker 2: also struggle. I struggle with this, doctor Joy when people

112
00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,080
Speaker 2: say my parents abused and neglected me as a child,

113
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:25,720
Speaker 2: and now as an adult, I don't know what to do.

114
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,040
Speaker 2: I'm like, abuse and neglect them right back?

115
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:28,720
Speaker 1: What do you mean?

116
00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:34,600
Speaker 2: Like, I really struggle with that as somebody who has

117
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 2: you know, I have cut my dad off. I do

118
00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,440
Speaker 2: not speak to him. So if he had nowhere to live,

119
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,320
Speaker 2: he would just have nowhere to live. You don't get

120
00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:44,440
Speaker 2: to cuss me out in my home. That's how I

121
00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,600
Speaker 2: feel about it. But then I'm like, oh, well, maybe

122
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,200
Speaker 2: that's my americanness coming out. I don't care what happens

123
00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,560
Speaker 2: to my parents, and so in this question, that's what

124
00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,120
Speaker 2: it brings up for me, and I guess that's maybe

125
00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,080
Speaker 2: sort of what I would want to ask you about

126
00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,880
Speaker 2: is like, where do you think the line is between

127
00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:06,760
Speaker 2: advocating for yourself, having boundaries and respecting cultural differences, Because

128
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,880
Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes the culture is wrong. Sometimes our

129
00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 2: cultures have attitudes that are harmful.

130
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,800
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, that's what I was going to say, Like,

131
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,920
Speaker 1: I definitely feel like there's a difference between knowing where

132
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,680
Speaker 1: it comes from and being okay to continue perpetuating it. Right,

133
00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,000
Speaker 1: So we can understand that culturally there is this expectation,

134
00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,920
Speaker 1: but how far are we going to go in the

135
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,280
Speaker 1: interest of protecting our own mental health, setting our own

136
00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,160
Speaker 1: selves up for failure, continuing in relationships where we are

137
00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,520
Speaker 1: not affirmed and validated in all of these things. And

138
00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,600
Speaker 1: so I definitely think this could be an example of Okay,

139
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,400
Speaker 1: even though the expectation is one thing, in my own

140
00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,840
Speaker 1: best interest and in the own interests of my child,

141
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,559
Speaker 1: I may need to do something different and it isn't

142
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,360
Speaker 1: clearly because you didn't try, right, So, I feel like

143
00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,120
Speaker 1: the cultural expectation was the effort that she's already put

144
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,320
Speaker 1: forward to take care dad. But you don't have to

145
00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,600
Speaker 1: continue to be denegrated and like abused in this situation

146
00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,360
Speaker 1: when you have some more power now than you did

147
00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:09,400
Speaker 1: maybe as a child.

148
00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,400
Speaker 2: Right. That was what was huge for me as a client,

149
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,960
Speaker 2: was I mean, you know it. You know, you're like,

150
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,040
Speaker 2: I'm an adult, I don't have to listen to anybody else,

151
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,680
Speaker 2: but we can feel and be mentally very stuck in

152
00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,160
Speaker 2: a child's place. And so knowing that you're grown versus

153
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 2: actually taking control of your own autonomy, there's two very

154
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 2: different things. So I have trouble sometimes when listeners are like,

155
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:34,800
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do about my parents, because

156
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,600
Speaker 2: I'll be like, okay, let them suffer, but this person

157
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,640
Speaker 2: sounds like, you know, she really does not want to

158
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,360
Speaker 2: do that, despite the fact that she's being verbally abused

159
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,640
Speaker 2: by her dad and this is happening even in front

160
00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,240
Speaker 2: of her son. So that's where I feel like, for me,

161
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 2: the priority is not respecting the cultural differences. It's understanding

162
00:08:54,480 --> 00:09:00,240
Speaker 2: that you are continuing to tolerate mistreatment that you don't deserve,

163
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,800
Speaker 2: and like you are supporting this man and you really

164
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 2: really do not deserve to be beat up like this

165
00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,640
Speaker 2: by somebody that you are taken care of. So I

166
00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:15,280
Speaker 2: don't know that my method of having a conversation and

167
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 2: saying listen, this is the standard for how I'm treated

168
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,319
Speaker 2: in my own home, and if you can't do that,

169
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,120
Speaker 2: then you're gonna have to find somewhere else to go.

170
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,840
Speaker 2: I don't know that this person, Fiona, would necessarily feel

171
00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,000
Speaker 2: comfortable with doing that, but that would be my suggestion.

172
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,440
Speaker 2: Let's talk about it. Let's be very clear, lay it

173
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,400
Speaker 2: out for him. You will not talk to me this way,

174
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:39,720
Speaker 2: and if you continue to do so, I hope you

175
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,839
Speaker 2: have somewhere else to go because I will change the locks.

176
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:42,480
Speaker 2: This is my house.

177
00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't think that is a bad thing to consider,

178
00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,160
Speaker 1: especially because it does not sound like there has been

179
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,560
Speaker 1: that conversation right, Like it feels like she has very

180
00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,600
Speaker 1: much continued in the cycle of where she was as

181
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,920
Speaker 1: a child, that this is how it is and this

182
00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,520
Speaker 1: is how I'm expected to be because he's my dad.

183
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,840
Speaker 1: But you can have different conversation now and say, hey,

184
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,160
Speaker 1: you know, I have continued to support you, but these

185
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,960
Speaker 1: are the rules for what things look like in my

186
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,480
Speaker 1: house and if you are wanting to continue staying here, like,

187
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,080
Speaker 1: these are the things we have to agree to.

188
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,000
Speaker 2: See. What if he doesn't, though, and he's like, well

189
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,520
Speaker 2: then you got it. You can't just make.

190
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,120
Speaker 1: It, Yeah, you can't. It can't be like a boundary

191
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,679
Speaker 1: with no follow through, right, Like it has not about

192
00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,240
Speaker 1: a firm boundary. Yeah, it has to be a boundary,

193
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,240
Speaker 1: and then once the boundary is crossed, then you have

194
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,320
Speaker 1: to follow through with the consequence, right. And so that

195
00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,199
Speaker 1: may mean maybe it would be too far to kind

196
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,000
Speaker 1: of just put him back on the street, but maybe

197
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,840
Speaker 1: that looks like finding him like an assisted living home

198
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,600
Speaker 1: or something where you're still supporting him, but it is

199
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,480
Speaker 1: not in your home, right and if you don't have

200
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,400
Speaker 1: to deal with the constant abuse in that kind.

201
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,480
Speaker 2: Of excellent suggestion. I didn't even think of that, But

202
00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,680
Speaker 2: there is a middle ground. I have to remind myself,

203
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,679
Speaker 2: you don't have to go fully to like kick that

204
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,800
Speaker 2: man out your life, though she maybe would not be wrong,

205
00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,240
Speaker 2: and that's what she decided, right, Like, we don't get

206
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 2: to dictate how we then deal with the abuse from

207
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,120
Speaker 2: other people, Like they don't get to say you went

208
00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,120
Speaker 2: too far when they've been the one who belong to us.

209
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,200
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you brought that up, because boundaries without

210
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:18,600
Speaker 2: consequences are really just suggestions, and suggestions can be followed

211
00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,080
Speaker 2: or not. But boundaries are supposed to be rules like

212
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 2: this is the treatment that I deserve and if you

213
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,480
Speaker 2: can't do it, then you can't be in my home.

214
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,560
Speaker 2: Simple as that or as complicated as that?

215
00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:33,120
Speaker 1: Really, so right right?

216
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,720
Speaker 2: Okay? Well Fiona, hope that helps.

217
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:37,360
Speaker 1: Good luck?

218
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:39,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about you, doctor Joy?

219
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,640
Speaker 1: Thank you? Okay, So my question, I don't have a

220
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,760
Speaker 1: name for my person, but how do you navigate the emotional, psychological,

221
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,920
Speaker 1: and social distress of a career deferred or that hasn't hatched?

222
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,880
Speaker 1: I earned a PhD and was on track as a

223
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,959
Speaker 1: budding scholar. A professional riff changed my course, and ten

224
00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:02,800
Speaker 1: years later, I'm rebuilding my confidence and re establishing my goals. However,

225
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,199
Speaker 1: when I look around at others I started with, went

226
00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,480
Speaker 1: to school with, and even mentored, I see they're thriving

227
00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,040
Speaker 1: in ways I have not. I don't know how to

228
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,760
Speaker 1: shake my feelings, even though I take responsibility for my

229
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,600
Speaker 1: direction and redirection. Now are there others experiencing something similar?

230
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 1: How are they moving through it? What are you doing

231
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:22,880
Speaker 1: to get on the other side? And where do they

232
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,160
Speaker 1: pull strength, confidence, and forgiveness.

233
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,600
Speaker 2: I really would like to know more about what happened

234
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,960
Speaker 2: this redirection ten years ago, because it sounds like this

235
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:36,000
Speaker 2: person is taking responsibility, almost as if it was their fault.

236
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:40,760
Speaker 2: I'm really curious about that. But I also maybe not

237
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 2: this exact scenario, but a lot of clients would come

238
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,200
Speaker 2: to me saying, you know, they feel like they're not

239
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:48,720
Speaker 2: doing as well as they should, they feel like they're

240
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:54,319
Speaker 2: behind on their peers. That sort of thing, and comparison

241
00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,440
Speaker 2: is the thief of joy. You look around and you

242
00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 2: see what you think everybody else has, and maybe you're

243
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,040
Speaker 2: basing that off Instagram, but Instagram is a highlight reel.

244
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,240
Speaker 2: You know, most people are not on Instagram telling you

245
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 2: about how bad things are or the deals that didn't

246
00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,200
Speaker 2: work out or the things that fell through. So it

247
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 2: could be that you feel like other people are surpassing

248
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,640
Speaker 2: you professionally, but maybe you're doing other things that they

249
00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,720
Speaker 2: haven't been able to do, or you know, maybe you've

250
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,400
Speaker 2: been focused on other aspects of your life. Again, I'm

251
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,920
Speaker 2: really curious about what happened. But like for me, I

252
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,360
Speaker 2: definitely since I have been in therapy, have been a

253
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 2: lot less focused on professional goals. I've been a lot

254
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,959
Speaker 2: less focused on my career and doing other things because

255
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,240
Speaker 2: focusing on my mental health figuring out what was going

256
00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,839
Speaker 2: on with me and getting to a healthier, calmer place

257
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,000
Speaker 2: was my priority for so long. So yeah, I'm sure

258
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,240
Speaker 2: there are a lot of other people out there who

259
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,320
Speaker 2: was like, oh, my podcast is bigger and I'm doing

260
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,800
Speaker 2: these tours and I'm doing that, and like that is

261
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,200
Speaker 2: great for you. Run your own race. I really had

262
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,320
Speaker 2: to take this time out to take care of me,

263
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,560
Speaker 2: focus on me, get my mental health right. Everybody is

264
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,120
Speaker 2: moving at different paces. My life is not supposed to

265
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:11,200
Speaker 2: look like anybody else's life, and kind of removing that expectation,

266
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 2: taking the word should out of our vocabulary mentally when

267
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,160
Speaker 2: we talk about where we are or where we want

268
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,560
Speaker 2: to be, this idea of oh I should be doing

269
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,760
Speaker 2: this might really be holding you back.

270
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,360
Speaker 1: I love that so much, Chris, So yeah, I definitely

271
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 1: zeroed in on that shoulding all over herself. But this

272
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,560
Speaker 1: idea that my career was going to be this place

273
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,600
Speaker 1: and now it's not. It also makes me wonder like

274
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,400
Speaker 1: what is stopping her from relaunching and kind of like

275
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,880
Speaker 1: picking up where she started because it feels like maybe

276
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 1: she's feeling like the moment has passed. And I think

277
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,000
Speaker 1: that there are very few things that happen where you

278
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,240
Speaker 1: can't either get back on the same track or continue

279
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,240
Speaker 1: on a slightly different path, but like, it's still a

280
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,960
Speaker 1: continuation of what you were doing, especially in academics, right,

281
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 1: Like I'm thinking people usually have some field of study

282
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,840
Speaker 1: that they are pursuing, and so ten years later, is

283
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,320
Speaker 1: the research still not valid? Is there not a way

284
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,600
Speaker 1: to kind of do a pivot in, you know, what

285
00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,720
Speaker 1: you were studying, Because it feels like she's feeling like, Okay,

286
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,840
Speaker 1: I can't pick up where I started again for some reason,

287
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,840
Speaker 1: and so I'm wondering what's keeping her stuck there? Yes,

288
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,000
Speaker 1: that was always confusing to me, is that, like, is

289
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 1: your PhD so niche that you fell out with this

290
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 1: one person and now you cannot work in this field anymore?

291
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,520
Speaker 1: Or are you still beating yourself up for something that

292
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,480
Speaker 1: was relatively minor and you're struggling to maybe decide what

293
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,480
Speaker 1: else you might want to do with your life or

294
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:38,280
Speaker 1: what else.

295
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,560
Speaker 2: Your career might look like. It's just not really enough

296
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,000
Speaker 2: information there to say for sure, but yeah, it could

297
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,480
Speaker 2: be that this person has lots of career options available

298
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,080
Speaker 2: to them, but they're stuck on what they thought their

299
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,800
Speaker 2: life was going to look like, and they're not really

300
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,840
Speaker 2: able to pivot or adapt to these new circumstances.

301
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,560
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, it's something that kind of also stuck

302
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,640
Speaker 1: out with the idea of like rebuilding my confidence, which

303
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,160
Speaker 1: to your point about her kind of internalizing this like

304
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,600
Speaker 1: it was her fault that this pivot had to happen,

305
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 1: as opposed to it being like the circumstances of the

306
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,720
Speaker 1: context around her, And so this rebuilding confidence makes it

307
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 1: feel like she has internalized something about this when it

308
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,240
Speaker 1: may not have actually been anything about her that needed

309
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,480
Speaker 1: to change in the first place. Right, Yeah, Yeah, but

310
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,720
Speaker 1: I agree with you being open to the idea that

311
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,360
Speaker 1: your career can be wildly successful in ways that you

312
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,480
Speaker 1: did not even imagine. Like ten years ago, I definitely

313
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,840
Speaker 1: was not planning on being like a podcaster and like

314
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,040
Speaker 1: doing all the things that I'm doing, And so you

315
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,200
Speaker 1: just never know, like if you are open to the

316
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,440
Speaker 1: process and keep putting one foot in front of the other,

317
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 1: which kind of path you end up walking on that

318
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,320
Speaker 1: is just beyond your wildest dreams.

319
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely be open to what else might be out there.

320
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 2: For sure, I thought I was going to be a lawyer.

321
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:55,960
Speaker 2: Ha ha.

322
00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:59,320
Speaker 1: You we're glad that didn't work.

323
00:16:59,320 --> 00:16:59,520
Speaker 2: Out.

324
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,400
Speaker 1: Ooh, but thank you so much for this letter, and

325
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,879
Speaker 1: I appreciate you. Waying in Chrystal. More from our conversation

326
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:13,240
Speaker 1: after the break. Why do friendship breakups sometimes hurt more

327
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,200
Speaker 1: than romantic ones? How do I make friends in a

328
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,600
Speaker 1: new city? Is it true that women can't actually be

329
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,920
Speaker 1: good friends to one another? I'm exploring all of these

330
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,560
Speaker 1: questions and so much more in my book, Sisterhood Heels,

331
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,320
Speaker 1: now available in paperback at your local independent bookstore or

332
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 1: at sisterhood Heels dot com. Grab a copy for you

333
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,120
Speaker 1: and your girls, and let's talk about it.

334
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,280
Speaker 2: I have a quick one here from Jesse, who says,

335
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 2: my best friend just got a great new therapist and

336
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,119
Speaker 2: I want her to be my therapist. Is that possible

337
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 2: or is that a conflict of interest?

338
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,960
Speaker 1: Ooh? I love these questions because I feel like it's

339
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 1: such an interesting debate for like friend groups around sharing

340
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,119
Speaker 1: a therapist, so to speak. And I think some therapists

341
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,560
Speaker 1: have very strict rules about not seeing multiple people in

342
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,600
Speaker 1: a system because does it complicate confidentiality? But the truth

343
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,040
Speaker 1: is that a lot of us live in places where

344
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,560
Speaker 1: that kind of thing is unavoidable. Right if you're in

345
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,680
Speaker 1: a small town or whatever, And so I think one

346
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 1: asking your friend if they are okay sharing that information,

347
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,920
Speaker 1: because sometimes friends are like, I just want this for

348
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,840
Speaker 1: myself and I really would prefer you not to talk

349
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 1: with my therapist. I can maybe help you find somebody else.

350
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 1: But if they're okay with sharing it, then I think

351
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,600
Speaker 1: having a conversation with your therapist. Now, the therapist, if

352
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,400
Speaker 1: they're ethical, is not going to even acknowledge that they

353
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,480
Speaker 1: are your friend's therapists, right, but they can have a

354
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 1: conversation with you about how they protect your confidentiality, how

355
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,400
Speaker 1: they protect everybody's confidentiality. I know in previous times, when

356
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 1: I've had supervisors who saw people in systems, they would

357
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 1: be very careful about the scheduling so that you're not

358
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,520
Speaker 1: running into each other in the waiting room. Now virtually,

359
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,199
Speaker 1: now you know, they're probably not as big of an issue.

360
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 1: But therapists are aware of those kinds of things and

361
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 1: usually can be very creative and scheduling and making sure

362
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,119
Speaker 1: they're not conflating who said what during a session and

363
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 1: bringing up a fight that your friend told them about

364
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,440
Speaker 1: but it's actually your session. Like, usually therapists are good

365
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 1: at keeping track of all that. Yeah, I agree.

366
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,879
Speaker 2: I think this was something that I didn't really consider.

367
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,199
Speaker 2: I was like, of course, your therapists should not be

368
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 2: seeing your friends or your boyfriend or anybody you know.

369
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 2: But this came up on the show a couple of

370
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,639
Speaker 2: years back, where it was like, we live in a

371
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,439
Speaker 2: small town, my mom is the only black therapist in town,

372
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,439
Speaker 2: and so my friends are seeing my mom, you know,

373
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,639
Speaker 2: and it's weird for me. And so yeah, that does happen,

374
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:52,000
Speaker 2: and it can be that you and your friend can

375
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 2: see the same therapists. I fully agree with doctor Joy

376
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,320
Speaker 2: about talking to your therapists about it, seeing if they're

377
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 2: even down, because they might not be. But when this

378
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 2: came up for me, when my client was like, ooh,

379
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 2: my grandma could really use a therapist. Can I give

380
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 2: her your number? I said, you can, and I would

381
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 2: be happy to help your grandma find a therapist. But

382
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 2: you are my client. You're my priority, and I don't

383
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,159
Speaker 2: want to take on somebody where that might cause me

384
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 2: some sort of conflict in regards to how I treat you.

385
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,840
Speaker 2: I think she really needed to hear that, you know that,

386
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,920
Speaker 2: like she was the priority, and I'm glad that you're

387
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,640
Speaker 2: looking out for the other people in your life. But

388
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 2: you know, we're in New York City, so I could

389
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 2: throw a rock and hit five hundred black therapists. But

390
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 2: I do think that there's something different in the dynamic

391
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,439
Speaker 2: of a family member versus a friend, right, because it

392
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 2: could be a friend that you only talk to, you know,

393
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 2: once every quarter, and like there isn't even a lot

394
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 2: of overlap and content versus somebody that you were under

395
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 2: the same roof with, right, and now, therapist definitely will

396
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 2: see families and maybe even break out individually, but it

397
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 2: all is in the interests of the family, and so

398
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,640
Speaker 2: there's no secrets with any particular family members. So maybe

399
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 2: I have a conversation with mom, I have a conversation

400
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 2: with dad, then we all come together to talk about

401
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 2: what individually was shared.

402
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 1: That definitely happens. But I do think therapists are probably

403
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 1: more likely not to take on family members because then

404
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 1: it does become difficult to kind of hold the partiality

405
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 1: for one client over the other.

406
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, especially because you know you've talked to me

407
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 2: about how your grandmother abused you. I don't need to

408
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 2: be going into therapy mad at this lady, right, right,

409
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 2: So you know, let me find her somebody else. So, yeah,

410
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 2: that's a great point about the difference between seeing family

411
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 2: versus friends. Friends. Probably not as sticky of.

412
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 1: Circumstances, exactly, exactly. Yeah, that was a great question, Thank you,

413
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,959
Speaker 1: chrissel Okay, I have one that's a little longer, well,

414
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: much longer, Okay. Okay. So recently, my best friend, who

415
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: is white, deeply hurt me when I ask for financial help.

416
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: Months ago, I asked for thirty dollars and she gave

417
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: it immediately, telling me not to worry. She's married with

418
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 1: two kids and financially better off. I'm a single mom

419
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: living paycheck to paycheck with an ex husband who has

420
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 1: substance abuse issues. I have full custody of my kids,

421
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 1: but only receive part time child support. She knows how

422
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: much I struggle and have trouble providing basics for my

423
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 1: children like new shoes and clothes. Despite our different financial lives.

424
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: I'm never resentful towards her and genuinely happy for whatever

425
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,639
Speaker 1: brings her joy because she's beautiful. I love her, and

426
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: I tell her all the time. A few weeks ago,

427
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 1: I only had two dollars in my account with three

428
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 1: days until payday. I texted her that I needed help,

429
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 1: was low on gas and had no dog food, and

430
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: that I'd appreciate whatever she could do. She replied, I'm sorry,

431
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: I have to talk to my husband because we just

432
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 1: spent fourteen hundred dollars on plane tickets for vacation. We're

433
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,679
Speaker 1: taking my mom to dinner for her birthday this weekend,

434
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,959
Speaker 1: and I need to get the kids new taekwondo uniforms.

435
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: I responded, no worries, I understand, but felt heartbroken and disappointed. Earlier,

436
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: I tried asking for help during a conversation, but she

437
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 1: kept interrupting. Other friends and even my unemployed sister have

438
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: helped me financially without asking. Reflecting on her family's lifestyle,

439
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: I realized she might not understand my struggles. I still

440
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: find myself hurt because I saved her as a last

441
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: resort when asking for help for some reason, and instead

442
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: of saying something like things are tight on my end,

443
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 1: but how much do you need, she launched into having

444
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: to ask her husband. I would never ask her for

445
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: any amount of money that would require spousal approval. Now

446
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: I can't help but notice the difference in our financial

447
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: situations and feel ashamed. I feel embarrassed. And less than

448
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: and try to pretend everything is normal. But I no

449
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: longer want to talk to her about things you speak

450
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: to your best friend about, like life, the good and

451
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 1: the bad. Can I get over this? Was I naives

452
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: to think that she understood me all these years when

453
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: she didn't trust me enough to tell her what that

454
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 1: I needed and didn't ask. I feel like I was

455
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: blind to the fact that she never really understand what

456
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: I go through as a single black mom of a

457
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,479
Speaker 1: twelve year old boy and ten year old girl. And

458
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: I should have known better and stuck with my black friends.

459
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: Is it me or is she white? It can be both?

460
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 2: Meeting them at a dance all night? Oh man, huh.

461
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: I think this person brought up some excellent points about

462
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 2: like if I ask you for fifty dollars or whatever

463
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 2: and you start telling me how you just spent fourteen

464
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: hundred on plane tickets and your kids need new karate uniforms,

465
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 2: It's like, are you rubbing it in that you have

466
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 2: all this money and I'm asking for fifty dollars? Like

467
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 2: you could just say, ooh, we've been doing a lot

468
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 2: right now, let me check with my husband. I'll get

469
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: back to you, Like I don't think the details of

470
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: how she has all this money and where she's spending

471
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 2: it was really necessary. But this is something that was

472
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 2: so challenging for me. And another of the things that

473
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 2: was a huge lesson learned is just how how much

474
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: therapy does not fix the things that therapy cannot help

475
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 2: you with. And a lot of that is, you know,

476
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: societal problems like money, Like so many of my clients

477
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 2: had to see me virtually because they would not have

478
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 2: been able to leave work, leave their kids, come to

479
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 2: therapy that sort of thing. There's a lot of structural,

480
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 2: systemic barriers in place that therapy can't outdo. And so

481
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: hearing you talk about this really breaks my heart because

482
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: you sound so ashamed of yourself for circumstances that you

483
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 2: shouldn't have to be in in the first place. And

484
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: this is where I start getting real, like free the

485
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 2: world and destroy capitalism. I just don't think in an

486
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 2: ideal world people should have to stress out about food, water, clothing, shelter,

487
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 2: the things we need to stay alive. So I hate

488
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 2: that you are in this position where you're now feeling

489
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: ashamed and like you're not good enough. But I also

490
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 2: don't think that was necessarily, not even just her intention,

491
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 2: because intentions aren't all that matter. But I think that

492
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 2: might be How do I say this? I don't want

493
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 2: to be like, girl, you feel bad because of you,

494
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: but because that's not it. It's not like you feel

495
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 2: bad because of you. But I think the reality of

496
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 2: the situation may be bringing up these feelings of shaming

497
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: you as opposed to her saying or do something specifically

498
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: to make you feel ashamed. Not sure, but maybe, but yeah,

499
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: what do you think, doctor Joy?

500
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: So I mean, I also feel like, you know, all

501
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: of these human needs should just be provided for people.

502
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: So I agree with you there, And it does to

503
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: me feel like her reaction feels disproportionate to the situation,

504
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: and anytime that happens, it feels like there's likely something

505
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: deeper going on. And so if in all these years

506
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: you haven't questioned before like, oh, is she a good

507
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: friend or is she white? And she can't actually be

508
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: a good friend, Like, it's interesting to me that this

509
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: situation is what has caused you to jump to this place,

510
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 1: And so I do wonder what else is going on

511
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: in the dynamic. And to your point, it could be

512
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: that you just feel really awful and rightfully so about

513
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: where you find yourself, and now you're like mapping that

514
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: on to this response from her, yes, which it doesn't

515
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 1: seem like you questioned the friendship before. And so for

516
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: all of this to come down to forty dollars feels like, Okay,

517
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: this doesn't really feel like it's about that. So I

518
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: feel like it may be more going on than we

519
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: have access to in the letter.

520
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 2: I agree, especially because I think she said something like,

521
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: I would never ask for an amount of money that

522
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 2: would need spousal approval, But you really don't know what

523
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: other people's relationships are like, you don't know what constitutes

524
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: a need for spousal approval. I mean, it sounds like

525
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 2: they really did just get done spending a lot of money.

526
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 2: I don't think she needs to go into the details

527
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 2: about that. But you can't say, oh, well, it's not

528
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: enough money to ask your husband about. How do you

529
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: know how you know what's enough money for me to

530
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 2: ask my husband about? Now? Could that be a cop out?

531
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: But we don't necessarily know that. I can see how

532
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 2: a conversation here would really be useful, and I can

533
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 2: also see how that would be difficult to do, especially

534
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: if you are already steeped in shame about where you

535
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: are now, your living situation, having to take care of

536
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: these kids, being a single mom. I can see how

537
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: it would be really hard to go to somebody who

538
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 2: seems like they're in a far more stable position and

539
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 2: be like, I feel like you don't understand me or

540
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: my life or where I'm coming from. But this is

541
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,959
Speaker 2: your best friend, white or not. I think best friends

542
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: deserve that consideration, deserve at least the conversation, and if

543
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: she responds poorly to it, then I think you know

544
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: how to move from there, because even if she can't

545
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: provide financial assistance, she can be empathetic. A friend should

546
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: at least be able to show empathy for your situation.

547
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: But yeah, I agree, it sounds like you've got some

548
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: personal stuff going on that's influencing your response to what

549
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: she said here.

550
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I really appreciate you kind of underscoring

551
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: the shame piece because it sounds like it was a

552
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: big deal for you to even ask, right like I

553
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: saved her as a last resort, like last resort. Yeah,

554
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: So it definitely feels like you're feeling really bad, and again,

555
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: rightfully so for even having to be in this situation,

556
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: but again to not internalize that as any feeling of

557
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: your own, but more feeling of the system that has

558
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: resulted in you being in this place. Yes, and it

559
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: not really being about her, but around all these systems

560
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: that are broken. Right.

561
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: It's not your fault that you don't have the support

562
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: that you need, Like you said that your children's father

563
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: is simply not supporting them the way he should and

564
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 2: that's not your fault. But you are doing the best

565
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: you can with the circumstances that you're living within, and

566
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: there's no shame in that. Oh, best of luck. That

567
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 2: hurts my heart. I hate to hear people talk about

568
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: feeling bad for things that it's like, this is not

569
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: a personal failing, you know, this is not your more

570
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: failing here. So that sort of thing came up a

571
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: lot as a therapist for me, where I'm like, people

572
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: are feeling bad for things that are really outside of

573
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 2: their control when they should be feeling proud of themselves

574
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: for doing everything they've been able to do despite everything

575
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 2: working against them.

576
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: Exactly so exactly. Oh more from our conversation after the break. Okay, well,

577
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: my last letter is from Annie, who says my best

578
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: friend recently had a baby, and the way she talks

579
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: about the baby is starting to concern me. But I

580
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: don't want to say that outright because I'm afraid she'll

581
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: stop being honest about how she's doing. I'm really the

582
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: only person she considers a best friend, and I know

583
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: she's not as candid with any of our mutual friends

584
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: or family. She's also not in therapy. My friend and

585
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: I are both twenty nine. She's been married for about

586
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: three years, and she's been with her husband since high school.

587
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: They both went into marriage knowing how the other felt

588
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: about having kids. My best friend never really cared to

589
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: have kids, but she was open to having at least

590
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: one as long as they were financially set up, and

591
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: she made it clear that she expected her husband to

592
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: do the heavy lifting when it came to caring for

593
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: the kid. Her husband just wanted kids, so their compromise

594
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: was to have one. However, her husband is in the military,

595
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: so every three or four years they moved to a

596
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: new state. Last year, they moved to a state that

597
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: has a lower cost of living than the last, which

598
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: meant the military cut the husband's salary by a lot.

599
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: My friend is unemployed and has been for many years,

600
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: but she claims she does want to find a job.

601
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: I say claims because every time I ask about the

602
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: job hunt, she gives me a long list of excuses.

603
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: Right before she found out she was pregnant, they got

604
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: noticed that her husband would be shipped overseas. He was

605
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: gone for most of the pregnancy and only got to

606
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: come back for ten days to witness the birth and

607
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: sort out the paperwork. Her expectation was that he would

608
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: be there to help her with the newborn, but obviously

609
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: that's impossible given their current situation. He won't get back

610
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: until the end of this year, and that's only if

611
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: they don't push his return date again. Luckily, she her

612
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: parents with her and they take the baby the minute

613
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: they get home from work and keep her throughout the night.

614
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: But it seems like it's not enough. I regularly get

615
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: text from my friend saying that the baby crying is

616
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: disturbing her and preventing her from watching her shows, which

617
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: is fair, but it is not really in a playful tone. Apparently,

618
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: mothers are supposed to pump every two hours or their

619
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: milk supply will dry up, and she's refusing, not because

620
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: she's against pumping, but in her words, it's just successive

621
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: and she don't have time for that. I'm very sensitive

622
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: to what she may be feeling mentally, emotionally, and physically.

623
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: I know giving birth is not easy, and raising a

624
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: newborn without her husband is definitely not what she's signed

625
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: up for. So I'm trying very hard to affirm her

626
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: and remind her she's allowed to have whatever feeling she

627
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,239
Speaker 1: has and to complain about whatever she wants. But I

628
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: know my friend, I know how she communicates. I know

629
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: when she's just joking, and this feels more like she

630
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: truly does not like the child. It's to the point

631
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: that I keep wondering what will happen once her parents

632
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: leave and she's the sole caretaker. How would you handle this?

633
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: I've mentioned my concern to her, but not to the

634
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: extent of saying that I'm starting to be concerned for

635
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: the bit baby safety. But I am at a loss.

636
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: Please help Annie. Yeah, So, as you were talking, my

637
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: immediate thought was, is there some postpartum depression email going

638
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: on here? Both in terms of just like the whirlwind

639
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: that is giving birth, but all of these other factors

640
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: that are in the background. Right, So her partner is

641
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: not there. Sounds like she had conflicting feelings about having

642
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: a baby in the beginning. Now there's a lack of

643
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: support even though her family is there to help. I

644
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: definitely think she needs to talk with her maybe obgyn

645
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: and perhaps a therapist about what's going on. My suggestion

646
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: would be it sounds like this is a long standing friendship,

647
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: which means she likely knows the parents, and so my

648
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: suggestion to Annie would be to maybe talk with her

649
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: mom and dad about her concerns and just say, hey,

650
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: I think we may need to talk with her doctors

651
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: about this to escalate this a bit.

652
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because she put

653
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 2: in a little PostScript and I do and read it,

654
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 2: but now it's relevant. She said, I don't think my

655
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 2: friend's parents see what I'm saying because they're so in

656
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 2: love with their grandbaby. Plus they're the type to believe

657
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,439
Speaker 2: that everything can be healed with prayer and they don't

658
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 2: really believe in therapy.

659
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: Oh so yes, wow, Okay, so maybe mom and dad

660
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: are not gonna be the route they may be. Yeah. Yeah,

661
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: so she may have to kind of be a little

662
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: bit more forthright in staging a bit of an intervention

663
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: here and say hey, and I don't think you need

664
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: to jump to conclusions about I'm afraid you're going to

665
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: hurt the baby. I think she can just say like,

666
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: I'm really concerned for you, and say say some of

667
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: the things she just shared right, like, I know when

668
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 1: you're laughing, I know when you're joking, and it doesn't

669
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: feel that way, and I'm really concerned about you because

670
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times, you know, it feels

671
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: like after you have a baby, like all the focuses

672
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: on the baby, and so having this be like, I'm

673
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: really concerned about you, my friend, and I want you

674
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: to be well, and maybe offering to go with her

675
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: a therapists appointment, are to talk with her obgyn about

676
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: what she's feeling, so that you know that a game

677
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: plan can be developed.

678
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree. My first thought was also, oh, this

679
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: sounds like some postpartums going on here.

680
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 1: And I agree.

681
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 2: I think it's this long standing or long running joke

682
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 2: that like, once you have a baby, nobody cares about

683
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: you anymore. But I think a lot of moms really

684
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 2: feel that they are now just this person's milk supply

685
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: or whatever, and people don't care about them as a

686
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: human being anymore. So I would definitely I think doctor

687
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 2: Joy just gave you some excellent advice, and I would

688
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: just reinforce the fact that, like I think, you want

689
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 2: your friend to feel that you care about her, you

690
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: are worried about her, You are concerned about her. You

691
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: can tell when she's joking, and she seemed really down lately.

692
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 2: I don't know if you need to say sounds like postpartum,

693
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 2: but maybe you could say, you know, like my cousin

694
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: had a baby and she was feeling blue or whatever,

695
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: and they found out she had postpartums. She had to

696
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 2: talk to her doctor and they did this this this

697
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: like it could be as simple as just casually suggesting it,

698
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 2: just to plant the seed, and maybe she does talk

699
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 2: to her doctor about it. But I think more than anything,

700
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 2: people need to know that somebody cares about them, and

701
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 2: it's not just about this beautiful baby. I'm sure everybody

702
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 2: loves this baby, but like we're worried about you. We

703
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 2: want you to be good. It doesn't seem like you're good.

704
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 2: So as your friend, as someone who loves you, I

705
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: want to do whatever I can to get you to

706
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 2: a place where you're good. Because it sounds like your

707
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 2: parents got the baby covered. The baby isn't gonna be fine, right,

708
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: So let's focus on my friend and getting her to

709
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: a good place mentally. Of course, doctor Joy knocked that

710
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 2: right out the park.

711
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: I'm blanking on the name, but I think that there's

712
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: like organizations of Postpartum Association of America or something like

713
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: that may even have a crisis line or like a

714
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: warm line that you might be able to call to

715
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: get additional support in like how to have this conversation,

716
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: and maybe even getting her into like a support group

717
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: in her area or a virtual group of other moms

718
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: who will also be able to affirm for her why

719
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 1: she may be feeling this way, or like, because I think,

720
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: again there's so much shame with the whole child birth experience.

721
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: Goal do I not have warm feelings to the child?

722
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: And so much of that is normal, especially if there

723
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: is a postpartum depression concern, and so getting her connected

724
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: to other people who maybe have felt like this could

725
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: also be helpful. So like looking into some of those

726
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: resources could probably lead her to some other options that

727
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: would be good.

728
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 2: Maybe even specifically military moms because of that added component

729
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 2: of the dad not being there, being overseas and you know,

730
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: he might come home in December, and he might not,

731
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: and there's really nothing you can do about that. So

732
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 2: being able to connect with other women who are like,

733
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 2: oh yeah, girl gave birth alone and raising these kids

734
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 2: by myself. This was not the plan. But here I am.

735
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 2: I think people really need to feel like others can relate,

736
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 2: So maybe something like that would be helpful. But Annie,

737
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 2: you sound like a good friend.

738
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love it. I love that she has you, Annie,

739
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah, Well this has been

740
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: so much fun, Chris, so I really appreciate some questions

741
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 1: with you after Joy.

742
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 2: Of course, what I'm honored is like the therapy rock

743
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: star right here. So I'm just honored to be sharing

744
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: a screen.

745
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Crystal.

746
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: This has been tons of fun. We appreciate it.

747
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,919
Speaker 2: Thank you, doctor Joy, Thank you so much.

748
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: I want to thank Cristal again for joining me for

749
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: these episodes this week. This has been tons of fun

750
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: to learn more about her and the work she's doing.

751
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: Be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for

752
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot com, slash listener letters, and don't forget to

753
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: text us episodes to two of your girls right now

754
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: and tell them to check it out. If you're looking

755
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory

756
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if

757
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: you want to continue digging into this topic or just

758
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: be in community with other sisters, come on over and

759
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner

760
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: of the Internet designed just black women. You can join

761
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This

762
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: episode was produced by ELISEE. Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing

763
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: was done by Dennison Bradford. We'll be back with our

764
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: regular episode next week, but until then, take good care

765
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: What