Speaker 1: Holy Human with Leanne Rhymes is a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Welcome my Loves to Today's Holy Human. I
Speaker 1: am going to get very personal on this episode, not
Speaker 1: that I don't in every episode, but this one in particular,
Speaker 1: because we are going to be diving into some very
Speaker 1: real topics that are near and dear to my heart
Speaker 1: and I know many of yours too, which is cultivating
Speaker 1: a functional, fulfilling, blended family while navigating the complications of
Speaker 1: step parenting, which can be complex. I'll be joined by
Speaker 1: the refreshingly candid Jamie scrim Jewer, host of the kick
Speaker 1: Ass step Mom podcast, for some seriously honest and open conversation,
Speaker 1: and don't worry, there are a lot of universal takeaways
Speaker 1: to all on Today's Holy Humane Act. Jamie, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming on the podcast. I I've been
Speaker 1: watching you from afar for a while now, like over Instagram,
Speaker 1: and there are very few women who actually want to
Speaker 1: discuss being a stepmom. And I'm just so grateful that
Speaker 1: you're sharing your experience in the world, because I know
Speaker 1: there's been very few places for me to go and
Speaker 1: feel like I'm connecting with someone else who's a stepmom,
Speaker 1: and I feel a lot less alone in the world.
Speaker 1: So thank you. Thank you for putting your journey out
Speaker 1: there so vulnerably, because I know it's not easy. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's definitely not. And thank you for saying that, because
Speaker 1: that it just means so much when you hear another
Speaker 1: step mom say that what you do matters, because it is.
Speaker 1: It's so vulnerable, right, and you're putting yourself out there
Speaker 1: and you're saying, you know, your deepest, darkest secrets and
Speaker 1: the way you're feeling online. And there's been so many
Speaker 1: times when I'm like, what am I doing? What am
Speaker 1: I thinking right now? Right like starting a step mom blogger,
Speaker 1: you know, sharing my experience on my podcast. It's I
Speaker 1: questioned myself. And then I talked to another step mom
Speaker 1: and you get a d M and you're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about this because when I became a stepmom,
Speaker 1: no one was talking about it, no one was no
Speaker 1: one was saying anything, and I didn't realize the way
Speaker 1: that I was feeling. Everyone else was feeling too, but
Speaker 1: no one felt comfortable saying it out loud. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: you knelled it. I'll talk about my stepson's and being
Speaker 1: a stepmom during the middle of my show, and I'll
Speaker 1: kind of prompt the audience to be like, yeah, like
Speaker 1: if you're a stepmom, and it's usually islands, come on, now,
Speaker 1: I know there are blended families in this audience. There's
Speaker 1: probably more blended families than not. And finally I'll get
Speaker 1: people like admitting to the fact that they're a part
Speaker 1: of a blended family. And it's it's wild, like it's
Speaker 1: such a taboo topic. So when I when I saw
Speaker 1: you taking on like all these different topics so publicly,
Speaker 1: I applauded you from a distance because I know, like
Speaker 1: I said, I know it the resistance that comes at
Speaker 1: me just during a show. Or you think people would
Speaker 1: be like, we're totally on team blended family, and people
Speaker 1: are like, m yeah, there's no real team, Like no
Speaker 1: one's like people were probably like half as raising their
Speaker 1: step mom because yeah, it's you know, there is still
Speaker 1: so much stigma and such a double standard when it
Speaker 1: comes to moms and step moms and the way that
Speaker 1: step moms are viewed in our society and it's mind
Speaker 1: bloin to me because there's so many step moms like
Speaker 1: this is this is not an uncommon family situation, but
Speaker 1: yet here we all are still struggling to talk about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, and before I totally want to go
Speaker 1: down that road with you. But before we get into it,
Speaker 1: I would love to know how you became a stepmoment yourself.
Speaker 1: Hold were you? What was that whole? I think I
Speaker 1: was young and had no idea. So I was turning
Speaker 1: to six and I started dating my husband, who is
Speaker 1: He's thirteen years older than me, so you know, he
Speaker 1: had three kids, He had an established life, a home
Speaker 1: where we live now actually in you know, Hamlet and
Speaker 1: southwestern Ontario. We have a wheat field for a backyard.
Speaker 1: I was living in the city and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: working as a child protection worker. So we were two very,
Speaker 1: very different lives, but you know, we were just kind
Speaker 1: of madly in love all in and I didn't really
Speaker 1: think about what life would be as a stepmom. I
Speaker 1: just thought I'd figure it out and I had My
Speaker 1: parents were divorced. I work in child protection, back ground,
Speaker 1: in psychology, worked with kids. Like I felt like I
Speaker 1: had all the things I needed to you know, be
Speaker 1: a successful step mom because I've done it on professionally.
Speaker 1: I I supported so many families. I became a Stepma myself,
Speaker 1: and I realized, you know, very quickly that you know,
Speaker 1: being the expert on the outside and living it in
Speaker 1: real life, there's so many different Well it's just the emotions, right,
Speaker 1: you don't know how it's going to feel. And uh so, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got it really overwhelmed very quickly. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, for me, looking back, we had so many doubters, right,
Speaker 1: like so many people, you know, having opinions about our relationship.
Speaker 1: I was young, like, did I know what I was
Speaker 1: signing up for? You know, was I ready for kids?
Speaker 1: You know, was I this like, well, yeah, I know
Speaker 1: who was ready for kids? No? No, I didn't, um,
Speaker 1: but you know, was I this rebound because you know,
Speaker 1: the new young wife? Like it was just like a stereotype, right,
Speaker 1: So there was a lot of a lot of doubters
Speaker 1: in our lives. And even my dad straight up told
Speaker 1: me not to marry them, Like my dad was like no,
Speaker 1: my mom was like no. In fact, at my wedding,
Speaker 1: my dad and in his speech said, you know, I
Speaker 1: told Jamie not to do this, but she, you know,
Speaker 1: told me to go f myself. Basics. Is I appreciate
Speaker 1: that was a good way. It was a really touching
Speaker 1: wedding speech. Um. But yeah, there's so many people who
Speaker 1: just thought that this wasn't going to work. And so
Speaker 1: I think my big thing at the beginning was I
Speaker 1: was trying so hard to be perfect and have it
Speaker 1: all together and not say I was struggling and and
Speaker 1: all of that, and inside I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: what was I thinking, Like this is so much harder
Speaker 1: than I thought it was going to be. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was twenty eight, and I was still like I felt
Speaker 1: like I had grown up so much certain parts of
Speaker 1: me and then other parts of me were still very young,
Speaker 1: and I was so in love, like I didn't think
Speaker 1: you don't think about that side of it. You just
Speaker 1: think love can conquer all and everything will just work
Speaker 1: out and everybody's gonna like me eventually, and you know,
Speaker 1: like I can make this work, Like I'm I'm always
Speaker 1: one of those people that's like if if I put
Speaker 1: my mind to it, like everything's going to be okay.
Speaker 1: And then you get like five six years in and
Speaker 1: you're like what the fuck, Like I can't control everybody
Speaker 1: and everyone, And you know, I think that that's been
Speaker 1: such a I mean, there's been so many lessons I
Speaker 1: think step mamahood as Um definitely taught me so much
Speaker 1: about myself and about my boundaries. Like I didn't even
Speaker 1: know what boundaries were until I started to have to
Speaker 1: deal with, you know, not only an expouse, but also children,
Speaker 1: like children that we're very different because one was six
Speaker 1: and one was two when I started, you know, hanging
Speaker 1: around them, so it was they had both very different
Speaker 1: experiences of me and as I of them. So it
Speaker 1: was wild for me. At least, it was an afterthought
Speaker 1: that I just thought I could make work and everything
Speaker 1: would be fine, and it's it was a very loud
Speaker 1: reality of something completely completely different. It was, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: been a wild ride. Yeah for sure, And you know,
Speaker 1: I love what you said. They're like, well, I just
Speaker 1: kind of dove in and I didn't think about it
Speaker 1: too much. And I get step Mom's reach out to
Speaker 1: me all the time before they get married, and like,
Speaker 1: well they're dating and I am. I always want to
Speaker 1: say to them, if you're going to over analyze the
Speaker 1: stuff now, like you're you're gonna really just ruin it.
Speaker 1: You're you're overthinking it. Like if you're in, you're in.
Speaker 1: If not, like you got to go because this is
Speaker 1: not going to be easy, right, Like it was almost
Speaker 1: like that ignorance was bliss because you know, it brought
Speaker 1: me to the place that I am at now. And
Speaker 1: if I would have known everything, I don't know if
Speaker 1: I would have allowed myself to fall in love, you know,
Speaker 1: like I wouldn't have put myself in that situation. Who knows,
Speaker 1: but that like that's hindsight, But there's a lot of
Speaker 1: challenges that I did not see. Kemming. Oh, yeah, do
Speaker 1: we have that much control of our hearts at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I'm not really sure. Very true,
Speaker 1: very true. But I can say it now. You can't. Yes,
Speaker 1: you can say it now. Like I said, I love
Speaker 1: that you share your journey so openly. I love that
Speaker 1: you coach. You do coach right, you coach step moms.
Speaker 1: Do you work with would you work with bio moms? Also? Like,
Speaker 1: do you work in that kind of situation where you
Speaker 1: work on the relationship with two people? No? I don't,
Speaker 1: But I've always thought about doing some mediation stuff because
Speaker 1: I feel like it would be really good to get
Speaker 1: two people and you know, the mom and step mom
Speaker 1: like in the same room and just like have this
Speaker 1: conversation there's this book. It's called No One's a Bit Um.
Speaker 1: I didn't read the whole thing, so I can't speak
Speaker 1: to the entire book, but halfway through um. It's written
Speaker 1: by a mom and by a step mom and a
Speaker 1: bio mom, and they recall in the book the same experience,
Speaker 1: like the same event, in two completely different ways. And
Speaker 1: it's so crazy because they both experienced that exact same
Speaker 1: meeting of each other and how each other showed up
Speaker 1: completely different. And I think that's so important to remember too,
Speaker 1: when we're in these situations, like the way mom is
Speaker 1: experiencing this, the way the kids are experiencing this, the
Speaker 1: way we're experienced this, Like we're all experiencing this really
Speaker 1: tricky situation from our own lens, based on our own wounding,
Speaker 1: our own triggers, our own stories, And I think that's
Speaker 1: the missing piece here, right, And just seeing like it's
Speaker 1: everyone everyone has their own perspective. Yeah, I remember that
Speaker 1: being such a huge awakening for me when I understood
Speaker 1: that every single person has a different lens, And like
Speaker 1: you're saying, it's built up from the moment that we're
Speaker 1: you know, born, through all of our different experiences and
Speaker 1: then we show up in this moment, and then this
Speaker 1: moment is seen through our own lens. And I was
Speaker 1: so fascinated just psychologically by that of no, two fingerprints
Speaker 1: are the same, same with the lens in which we're
Speaker 1: looking through, they're not the same. I guess I started
Speaker 1: to have a lot greater you're standing and capacity for
Speaker 1: empathy when I started to try to understand the lens
Speaker 1: in which others were seeing things through. And there's been
Speaker 1: certain times in my situation where I'm like, that didn't
Speaker 1: even happen, like, but according to them, it really did.
Speaker 1: And there's been people in our in our circle, in
Speaker 1: our family, our whole family unit, where I would definitely
Speaker 1: say that what people were expressing did not happen in
Speaker 1: the room, but they are so adamant about it. And
Speaker 1: so because of people's you know, through the lens of hurt,
Speaker 1: because of the lens of insecurity, Like we're all looking
Speaker 1: through different lens and depending on the day, you know,
Speaker 1: it's given me a lot more compassion for what people
Speaker 1: are experiencing or I think that they're experiencing. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: brings a lot of meaning to the whole The way
Speaker 1: people treat you is more about them than it is
Speaker 1: about this very true? Like how true? How true is that?
Speaker 1: Like There's been periods of my step motherhood where I
Speaker 1: literally had that like on repeat in my head. You
Speaker 1: got to like talk yourself through it, right totally? Do
Speaker 1: you have to be your own coach? I mean, that's
Speaker 1: that's so interesting. You know, when you when you start
Speaker 1: to go and look up all you know, information about
Speaker 1: stepmotherhood or about you know, the experience itself, there's really
Speaker 1: not There's not a lot out there. Why do you
Speaker 1: think that is? And what made you what made you
Speaker 1: want to jump in the fire of I'm going to
Speaker 1: be the guide that that helps all of these women
Speaker 1: on this journey. Yeah, I don't know. I know it
Speaker 1: kind of happened by accident. Really. I when I was
Speaker 1: in university and out of the university, I was fascinated
Speaker 1: by blogs and I was I just kind of always
Speaker 1: thought about having a blog and I would just I
Speaker 1: wrote this blog as well, and it wasn't a big thing,
Speaker 1: but I always thought it was cool when someone from
Speaker 1: like Australia would read it or something like that, and
Speaker 1: it was interesting when you know. So there was a
Speaker 1: really big pivotal night in my life as a step
Speaker 1: mom and I was on the floor. I was crying
Speaker 1: in the bathroom with wine, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: think I'm out. I I think I think I've been
Speaker 1: there before. Yeah, I think every stepma haas. And I
Speaker 1: was like, I think I'm done, Like this is this
Speaker 1: is too much? Right? I everyone was right, I made
Speaker 1: a mistake. I'm out. That night, I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: either going to get in my car and go far
Speaker 1: far away, or I'm going to figure this out and
Speaker 1: I'm going to be a damn good stepmom. And so
Speaker 1: I went to the internet. I was like googling stuff,
Speaker 1: and there was just a lot of bashing, step mom bashing.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of hate, There was a lot
Speaker 1: of step mom stereotypes, Like there was really nothing that
Speaker 1: resonated with me, and like the support that I did
Speaker 1: find about how a step mom should act. I was
Speaker 1: reading like do you even have step kids? Like do
Speaker 1: you even know how this feels? Like sorry, I can't
Speaker 1: take this from like a general parenting expert, because if
Speaker 1: you're if you're not in it, you don't understand it.
Speaker 1: So I started blogging about it. Never in my life
Speaker 1: did I think that anyone would really read it to
Speaker 1: be quite honest, like I would. I was just kind
Speaker 1: of doing it at this point. We had a baby.
Speaker 1: So just to back up, my husband and I got
Speaker 1: together in March, got moved in in July, got engaged
Speaker 1: in October. No, yeah, I got engaged in October, married
Speaker 1: in June, pregnant in August, and a baby in in May.
Speaker 1: So like there was a lot going on, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, everything settled and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I have three kids, three step kids and a baby
Speaker 1: and a husband, and I have a wheat field for
Speaker 1: a backyard and I don't know what is happening right
Speaker 1: with my life and I'm not I'm not even thirty,
Speaker 1: and uh so, yeah, that that's kind of how it
Speaker 1: all started. And then I started to get messages from
Speaker 1: people from all over thanking me for saying the things
Speaker 1: that they were afraid to say, and it really just
Speaker 1: kind of transformed from there. I was like, wow, there
Speaker 1: is something here. And at that point, no one was
Speaker 1: talking about step parenting online other than just kind of
Speaker 1: like the bashing Facebook groups. So I just kind of
Speaker 1: went all in and and here we are. Now. I
Speaker 1: love it. I think it's very brave and I you know,
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's got to be a lot of intense
Speaker 1: energy that comes at you from both sides. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's step moms who are angry and frustrated, and there's
Speaker 1: bio moms who are angry and frustrated for different reasons.
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you handle that as a blogger?
Speaker 1: How do you handle that kind of energy that comes
Speaker 1: at you on the Internet. I've had a lot of
Speaker 1: it coming me from from for different reasons, and I honestly,
Speaker 1: this is the first conversation that I've really had about
Speaker 1: this topic. And I've been a bit afraid for the
Speaker 1: past twenty fo hours because it is you. When I
Speaker 1: speak on this, A lot of times I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't, and yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: well thanks. It's not just a feeling. It's but at
Speaker 1: the same time, I know I'm at a place where
Speaker 1: I can speak very clearly on my own experience. I've
Speaker 1: come to terms with being able to handle the energy
Speaker 1: that comes at me because I know who I am.
Speaker 1: I wondered what your experience is like, because you are
Speaker 1: so blatantly like entering these worlds you know, in their
Speaker 1: heavy topics I did actually get a really good hate
Speaker 1: mail from a husband the other day. So the step
Speaker 1: mom had been, you know, following my content, and I
Speaker 1: had been talking about boundaries and talking about you know,
Speaker 1: trying to set some stuff, and sometimes people take a
Speaker 1: little bit and then don't take the whole thing, and
Speaker 1: maybe her delivery of my messaging wasn't completely aligned with
Speaker 1: what I was actually saying, and so he wasn't happy.
Speaker 1: Every once in a while, I get a I get
Speaker 1: a really good email from someone who's really upset, and
Speaker 1: it comes back to it's not about me. You know,
Speaker 1: it really isn't about me. And I think that because
Speaker 1: you know, when I present myself, when I'm having conversations online,
Speaker 1: I am pretty no bullshit in the way that I
Speaker 1: show up. So I don't think I get as much
Speaker 1: hate as people think I would. That's good. So I
Speaker 1: don't know if they're just anticipating that I'm going to
Speaker 1: create content about it, because typically I will make it
Speaker 1: as a conversation piece. In fact, often I will get
Speaker 1: people say, hey, this is how I'm feeling about something
Speaker 1: you said. Please don't share this um and create content
Speaker 1: on it. But so I've just kind of created that
Speaker 1: type of relationship with my community. And then when people
Speaker 1: are rude like block, block and bless like see you later,
Speaker 1: Like this is my page. And if you're not here
Speaker 1: to be respectful and to grow with each other and
Speaker 1: to just be open and honest, then you don't belong here.
Speaker 1: So I have no problem just blocking that and just
Speaker 1: and just saying saying goodbye block and blessed. I like
Speaker 1: that was like later, I just don't have time for it, right.
Speaker 1: And here's the thing we haven't. Like when you're a
Speaker 1: step mom, you've got enough drama and stuff in your
Speaker 1: own life, even when things are good. It's like what
Speaker 1: Stepma Magazine says, like even when it's good, it's complicated.
Speaker 1: You don't have time for other stuff. So for me,
Speaker 1: it's really been about being very careful about how I
Speaker 1: talk about things. You know, I'm I'm very deliberate about
Speaker 1: what I say and don't stay online. So you will
Speaker 1: never hear me talk down about my stepkids. Mom. You
Speaker 1: will never hear me, you know, say anything negative about
Speaker 1: my step kids. If at any point in time anyone
Speaker 1: my family was like that made me feel uncomfortable that
Speaker 1: you put that, I would be like, it's off right,
Speaker 1: Like my number one priority is always going to be
Speaker 1: my family. And I think that's what actually makes me
Speaker 1: different than a lot of other step mom bloggers because
Speaker 1: I say this all the time, but like sitting around
Speaker 1: bitching about how terrible the exes or you know, how
Speaker 1: hard being a stepmamas, it's not going to make it
Speaker 1: any easier, Like it really does. The change does start
Speaker 1: with you. And I love when I hear other step
Speaker 1: moms say that it has been like this huge evolution,
Speaker 1: this personal evolution. They've learned so much about themselves and
Speaker 1: their triggers and and just grown so much as a person,
Speaker 1: because that's what happens, that which it's all about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it really has been the most expansive journey.
Speaker 1: Like you know, my relationship with Eddie has been incredibly expansive,
Speaker 1: and to be able to have the safety and in
Speaker 1: relationship like I do with him has been super expansive.
Speaker 1: But the other and probably even more expansive than that,
Speaker 1: has been my role as a stepmom and navigating so
Speaker 1: many different personalities and also disengaging without being disconnected, which
Speaker 1: can be very confusing. I think, I don't know, there's
Speaker 1: been that's been a huge piece for me. Another huge
Speaker 1: piece has been and you mentioned like drama within the relationship.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I had to look at
Speaker 1: and still do sometimes is like how hooked in am
Speaker 1: I to drama? How much do I get off on that?
Speaker 1: Because I think it's so easy in these relationships, because
Speaker 1: they can be so high conflict, to get sucked into
Speaker 1: it and it be almost like a high, especially when
Speaker 1: you get used to it. If it's not there, you're like, wait,
Speaker 1: it feels something feels wrong because it feels calm. When
Speaker 1: we started to have less of a high conflict experience,
Speaker 1: I started to ask myself like how much of this
Speaker 1: am I causing a and and desiring like actually wanting
Speaker 1: because it fed me in some way. And it was
Speaker 1: such an interesting exploration because now if I see myself
Speaker 1: like trying to get hooked into it, I'm like, nope,
Speaker 1: not not my not my thing. I want peace in
Speaker 1: my life, like peace really, And I think because of
Speaker 1: how I my life has never really been peaceful since
Speaker 1: I was a child. Just by growing up the way
Speaker 1: that I did and having to really unhooked from the
Speaker 1: drama and really make peace a priority has been such
Speaker 1: a huge shift in my own journey and I would
Speaker 1: have never I mean, I'm sure life would have found
Speaker 1: another way to teach me. But step you know, this
Speaker 1: step mom experience has been you know, to put my
Speaker 1: piece first above anything has been super super important for me.
Speaker 1: I love that because I'm a firm believer that you know,
Speaker 1: everyone here has a lesson they need to learn, right,
Speaker 1: and you know what's your lesson? Like You're going to
Speaker 1: find yourself in the same situation over and over and
Speaker 1: over again until you learn the lesson that you need
Speaker 1: to learn. So I'm always saying to step ims, like
Speaker 1: just stop and ask yourself what the lesson is, and
Speaker 1: they're like, no, you don't understanding. His ex wife is
Speaker 1: doing this, his stepkids are doing that, like my stepkids
Speaker 1: are doing this, Like this is you don't get it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I do, I get it, But what
Speaker 1: is this trying to teach you? Like, where's the lesson
Speaker 1: here for you? And as soon as you shift that,
Speaker 1: I think as a step mom and you start to
Speaker 1: see that from a different lens, You're like, oh, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is a little bit about me right, Yes, for sure,
Speaker 1: and this is a good time for a quick break.
Speaker 1: But we'll be right back. Welcome back my friends. The
Speaker 1: cool stepmom guru, Jamie scrim Jew and I were just
Speaker 1: talking about the blowbacks that can come from offering stepparenting advice.
Speaker 1: One of the more challenging pieces of being a stepmom.
Speaker 1: There's multiple, many, but one of the things that I
Speaker 1: feel like is not talked about enough is the loneliness
Speaker 1: that can occur when going through this experience. Especially you know,
Speaker 1: I don't have Eddie and I do not have children
Speaker 1: of our own, and because of that, a lot of
Speaker 1: times for me, it's felt like I've been placed. It's
Speaker 1: like I've been injected into this family system and it
Speaker 1: can be really, really lonely. I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the I don't think I've even realized how lonely it
Speaker 1: was until maybe a few years ago, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh this. I feel there's a sense of loneliness in
Speaker 1: this container that I don't feel like. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't feel like it's talked about enough. What's been
Speaker 1: what's been your experience with with that? Yeah, I definitely
Speaker 1: think I felt that a lot at the beginning, especially
Speaker 1: before I had Race, that was a I felt very lonely.
Speaker 1: Actually even after I had Race, because it felt like
Speaker 1: they had their things and when the kids would come
Speaker 1: for we had week one week off, so when the
Speaker 1: kids would come, it was just like all kids, like
Speaker 1: all kids focused, which rightfully, so like kids have hockey,
Speaker 1: they have all the things. Like kids, we have to
Speaker 1: take care of the people. Um, but it was kind
Speaker 1: of like where do I fit in here? Like where
Speaker 1: where do my needs fit in here? And I did.
Speaker 1: I felt very much like an outsider. And then when
Speaker 1: we had Race, so the kids would still have their
Speaker 1: busy lives, and then I had this baby, so then
Speaker 1: I wasn't even involved in their busy lives as much
Speaker 1: because I was at home with this baby. And that
Speaker 1: was really lonely for me too, because I was like, well,
Speaker 1: if I was in a step mom, we would be
Speaker 1: here together, right Like I felt like I kind of
Speaker 1: missed out on that new mom experience because we had
Speaker 1: all of the kids all that, Like the kids were
Speaker 1: there and we were running around like that. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely was lonely. But I like what you just
Speaker 1: said there is like you didn't realize it was lonely
Speaker 1: until you really dove into it. Because I don't know
Speaker 1: if I would have identified it as being lonely as
Speaker 1: much as I would have just been piste off. I mean, right, well,
Speaker 1: it's funny that you mentioned piste off because when I
Speaker 1: dove into your book The d and Twenty Ways to
Speaker 1: Be a Kick as step Mom, Yeah, which I loved,
Speaker 1: um And it did piss me off in a couple
Speaker 1: of places, which I loved also because what it did
Speaker 1: was I haven't really had to revisit these pieces of
Speaker 1: my experience, and it brought up some leftover resentment and
Speaker 1: anger that is still the air. And what I started
Speaker 1: to question, like, where is this coming from? Who is it?
Speaker 1: Who am I projecting this toward? And it's not my
Speaker 1: um my stepson's mom at all. Actually, it has nothing
Speaker 1: to do with her. What it started, what really brought
Speaker 1: up for me was my resentment towards society and the
Speaker 1: stereotypes that are still that still exists. And how much
Speaker 1: of when you're in my position or you're in your
Speaker 1: position where you're you're openly discussing these experiences, how much
Speaker 1: projection gets projected upon you of what people haven't yet
Speaker 1: to deal with on their own. And yeah, I was
Speaker 1: I still today. I was just talking about it before
Speaker 1: we got on here, I was like, I'm still angry,
Speaker 1: Like there's still anger that I've that's not that's left over,
Speaker 1: And it's because I really haven't had to look at,
Speaker 1: you know, these these places in my life because my
Speaker 1: my my situation has shifted um in our family unit,
Speaker 1: um to one that is more peaceful, kind of left
Speaker 1: left things to be and without really dealing with certain
Speaker 1: feelings I've had around the experience. And so yeah, so
Speaker 1: thanks for that, Thanks for dredging that up. I really
Speaker 1: appreciate it. But you know, it's interesting because I I
Speaker 1: think my own journey has been you know, like you said,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have called it loneliness. I think my journey
Speaker 1: for myself, my own healing, has been about really finding
Speaker 1: words and finding having a vocabulary for this array of
Speaker 1: feeling that is this step mom experience. It's it's very complex,
Speaker 1: and I think one of the best tools that I've
Speaker 1: ever given myself is the ability to express it and
Speaker 1: know what's coming up for me and and claim it
Speaker 1: as my own and not projected upon the other people
Speaker 1: in this experience. Yeah, for sure. And you know, just
Speaker 1: to go back for a second, step moms in our
Speaker 1: society It really is so confusing, right because you're talking before,
Speaker 1: you're saying, well, how do you know what to do
Speaker 1: as a step mom? And the thing is is there
Speaker 1: really is no right way. So what works for one
Speaker 1: family isn't right for another. So you know, there are
Speaker 1: step moms who are all in as like the motherly
Speaker 1: role in the home, and they have that relationship with
Speaker 1: the kids, they have that great co parenting relationship. So
Speaker 1: for them to like swipe an iPad or to ground
Speaker 1: a kid or to you know, implement something new, it's
Speaker 1: received well because everyone's that's what works for that situation, right.
Speaker 1: So those are the situations where it's like, yeah, the
Speaker 1: step mom is a mom and this family too, and
Speaker 1: everyone's on board. Then you know there's step moms who
Speaker 1: maybe aren't connecting with their step kids. So you have
Speaker 1: step moms who don't have that great relationship and they
Speaker 1: have this guilt because they're supposed to love their step
Speaker 1: kids like they're their own, but they don't have those feelings.
Speaker 1: Or you know, you have the step moms who do
Speaker 1: love the step kids like their their own. But then
Speaker 1: people are, well, you need to respect the role of
Speaker 1: the mom, and you know you're a real mom, but
Speaker 1: you're actually not a real mom. Let the real parents
Speaker 1: handle the parenting, like you know, like there's just a
Speaker 1: confused messages about how a step mom should and shouldn't
Speaker 1: show up. So when you say, like I'm damned if
Speaker 1: I do, I'm damned if I don't, it's true. So
Speaker 1: that's why it's really about getting right with yourself and
Speaker 1: like what works for you and your family, because otherwise
Speaker 1: there there is no right answer. Yeah, it's very complicated,
Speaker 1: and you're right, it is very unique to each family
Speaker 1: unit because some families have everyone is present, some families,
Speaker 1: you know, have the mother or father or whatever it
Speaker 1: may be, may not be in the picture. My journey
Speaker 1: with that has been really interesting because I feel like
Speaker 1: the more secure I became within myself, I have been
Speaker 1: able to navigate the relationships, whether it be with my
Speaker 1: stepsons or Eddie or with Brandy. Like I've feel like
Speaker 1: it's always come back to my own sense of security
Speaker 1: and not taking things personally and just letting people have
Speaker 1: their experience. And the more I could do that and
Speaker 1: the more, like I said to the disengaging without detaching
Speaker 1: has been really that's been a that's been a tight
Speaker 1: rope walk for me, and I'm sure a lot of
Speaker 1: people can relate to that. It's like you want to care,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, you don't want to care
Speaker 1: too much. I don't want to get hurt in this,
Speaker 1: or I don't want to hurt anyone else in this.
Speaker 1: I want to still allow people to have their experience.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, the more, like I said, the
Speaker 1: more I can just be with my own experience them,
Speaker 1: the less hurt a cause in the in the family
Speaker 1: unit is what I've learned. Were you guys always on
Speaker 1: the same page with like the kids in terms of
Speaker 1: expectations and like parenting and that kind of stuff. No,
Speaker 1: I'm not. Sometimes some days we are still some as
Speaker 1: we aren't. And it's really interesting because I, you know,
Speaker 1: Eddie really wanted me a part of his experience and
Speaker 1: to be a part of their life, and I have been.
Speaker 1: And I also know as they've gotten older, I've known
Speaker 1: and to back away and be like, hey, I'm here,
Speaker 1: like if you want to talk about anything, like you know,
Speaker 1: I'm here for it. And I let them have their
Speaker 1: own experience with their parents. And I sometimes can get
Speaker 1: caught in the middle of everybody too, and everybody's like,
Speaker 1: be on my side. I'm like, nope, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: go over here. You guys have at it. We were
Speaker 1: actually all in the house the other day and everybody
Speaker 1: was having their own experience, and I just went laid
Speaker 1: down on the couch. I was like, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: observe from over here and then and everybody can do
Speaker 1: their own thing. Like some days I feel like we're
Speaker 1: on the same page. Other days I feel like we're not.
Speaker 1: And then I I feel like some days I'm part
Speaker 1: of the book, some days I'm not. It's a dance.
Speaker 1: It's a dance that I've had to learn. There's not
Speaker 1: one fixed way of being. And if there is, then
Speaker 1: congratulations to you, because it's for us. It just seems
Speaker 1: like the more flexible we can be with one another,
Speaker 1: which is so opposite of how I am in my life,
Speaker 1: Like I like to control things, you know, when I
Speaker 1: head out on tour, it's like everything is planned, like
Speaker 1: everything's always been planned, and this has been the chaos
Speaker 1: of this piece of my life. I've had to find
Speaker 1: peace within the chaos. There's that makes sense. Yes, I
Speaker 1: do really think that most set moms their lesson is control. Right,
Speaker 1: if you really think about it, like, if you talk
Speaker 1: to most step moms, what do you struggle with the most?
Speaker 1: I struggle not having control and in some way, shape
Speaker 1: or form, And you know, that was definitely like the
Speaker 1: same situation for me. I felt like I had no
Speaker 1: control over anything. So then I tried to control everything
Speaker 1: even more and tried to be that perfect step mom
Speaker 1: and you know, try to put all that pressure on myself,
Speaker 1: and then then that backfires, right right, I think that's
Speaker 1: it's when that all starts to backfire and you start
Speaker 1: to get resentful. That's where all the step moms get
Speaker 1: to the point where they're like, like, we're saying on
Speaker 1: the bathroom floor. Yeah, yeah, for sure, I've definitely been there.
Speaker 1: And right here, we are going to take a quick break,
Speaker 1: but we'll be right back, I promise. Welcome back. My friends.
Speaker 1: Jamie and I were just discussing how striving for perfection
Speaker 1: can backfire big time. You just mentioned a word resentment,
Speaker 1: and I wondered, what are your what's what's your suggestion
Speaker 1: and advice when it comes to keeping resentment out of
Speaker 1: the relationship and not only with your husband but with
Speaker 1: your step kids. Yeah, I think you've got to be
Speaker 1: really in tune with yourself and pay attention to how
Speaker 1: you're showing up. And it sounds so cliche, it's like,
Speaker 1: but it really does come down to self care. And
Speaker 1: when I'm looking after myself and I'm spending time with
Speaker 1: girlfriends and you know, Darren and I are making time together,
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm just feeling good, eating while exercising
Speaker 1: all the things. When we get a lawyer's letter, or
Speaker 1: when we get or something happens with my step kids,
Speaker 1: or my partner and I disagree on parenting whatever, or
Speaker 1: I just get triggered by something, it makes a huge
Speaker 1: difference my reaction. Right, So if I'm not doing okay
Speaker 1: in the self care department, I'm going to be overwhelmed
Speaker 1: and resentful and spiral and just kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: really snowball down that spot. But when I am taking
Speaker 1: care of myself, I have a little bit more perspective.
Speaker 1: But I think it's really important there are signs leading
Speaker 1: up to when that is happening. So if you're feelings overwhelmed,
Speaker 1: if you're feeling annoyed, like when someone just walks in
Speaker 1: the like when your step kids walk in the door,
Speaker 1: or you're dreading the time that they're coming to spend
Speaker 1: with you, or like you're sitting at dinner and your
Speaker 1: step kid is eating food and all you can hear
Speaker 1: is how loud they're chewing something like that. Like that's
Speaker 1: when you know you're like bordering on resentment, right, Like
Speaker 1: something's off right now because you're being easily triggered because
Speaker 1: chances are they're not chewing any differently than they are
Speaker 1: were last week, but you're just in a different space.
Speaker 1: So I think it's so important to get really clear
Speaker 1: with yourself and be open and honest with your partner
Speaker 1: and learn to have those conversations. And it's hard, right
Speaker 1: because when you say how you're feeling about certain stressors
Speaker 1: in your life, the stressors actually came with your partner,
Speaker 1: so they can take offense to it. But self care
Speaker 1: in that communication piece, it's so important because when you're
Speaker 1: bordering on resentment, like you gotta do what you got
Speaker 1: anything you can to not go all in there, because
Speaker 1: when you're really stuck there, it's a really hard place
Speaker 1: to dig out of. It is I agree with that completely.
Speaker 1: Communication has been key and one of my biggest lessons
Speaker 1: has been you know, I can't control someone else's response
Speaker 1: to my feelings, and I want to, Like I, I
Speaker 1: don't want to hurt like you're saying. You know, some
Speaker 1: of the things that we can resent came with our partner,
Speaker 1: and so they can't take it really personally. I have
Speaker 1: had to learn that I can't control Eddie's response to
Speaker 1: my feelings. But at the same time, it's worse if
Speaker 1: I hold it in because I'm sitting here unexpressed on
Speaker 1: how I truly feel. And that has been a dance
Speaker 1: that we've had to learn because I've also I think
Speaker 1: it also really um the delivery makes how I deliver
Speaker 1: information is really key UM to whether or not you
Speaker 1: know he can he takes it personally, and so communication
Speaker 1: has been something we've had to navigate and learn how
Speaker 1: to do because it can be in this kind of situation,
Speaker 1: UM can be even triggier than regular relationship communication. Have
Speaker 1: you had situations where he just completely doesn't understand why
Speaker 1: you think this is a big deal? Oh yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: all the time, all the time. And I, you know,
Speaker 1: at the beginning, I think had this expectation that he
Speaker 1: could control the situation, like he could magically just like
Speaker 1: make things stop happening, and I remember having in this
Speaker 1: conversation one day where he's like, I can't control this,
Speaker 1: like I can't my and I realized my expectation of
Speaker 1: his his control of the situation was just insanely um inflated.
Speaker 1: And I also realized that I was in my own
Speaker 1: experience and spin out in our family unit relationship in
Speaker 1: the first few years. I realized that he wasn't going
Speaker 1: to understand everything that was going on inside of me,
Speaker 1: Like it was just there was no way to for
Speaker 1: a man, for my husband to understand as a new
Speaker 1: step mom what was happening within me. And so I
Speaker 1: think I go back to like having the words to
Speaker 1: be able to communicate my experience that became something that
Speaker 1: I really had to learn, and him being able to
Speaker 1: listen to me and hear me without telling me I
Speaker 1: was wrong for feeling that way was super important too,
Speaker 1: Like I just needed him to hear my feelings and
Speaker 1: if I could get it out and he could be
Speaker 1: there in order for us to have that conversation, then
Speaker 1: I think a lot of feelings naturally dissolved. It was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I just needed to be expressed. Yeah, I have this
Speaker 1: thing that I recommend that my step moms say before
Speaker 1: they go into like these tough conversations they have like disclaimers, right,
Speaker 1: So it's like, I don't need you to understand or
Speaker 1: to agree with why I feel the way I'm feeling.
Speaker 1: I just need you to respect that this is how
Speaker 1: I'm experiencing things right now and just leave it at that. Right.
Speaker 1: And I find when you go in with those disclaimers,
Speaker 1: they can't they have to listen, right, kind of sets
Speaker 1: you both up for success, right like that, But it's true, right,
Speaker 1: And I think we all also don't really give enough
Speaker 1: way to when you're in the trenches of it all,
Speaker 1: like if you're dealing with a high conflict X, if
Speaker 1: you're if you're having issues with your step kids, if
Speaker 1: you have different parenting styles, all of this, how much
Speaker 1: pressure is also on our partner, right, Like there's times
Speaker 1: where I would say to Darren, like I need you
Speaker 1: to respond to that like this, or I would be
Speaker 1: like write it out, like can you say this, like
Speaker 1: like shut this down, this is how you need to
Speaker 1: do it. And I would be so pissed when he
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it the way that I wanted him to
Speaker 1: do it, And that was a lot of our issues
Speaker 1: because I just like you're saying, you're like, you can
Speaker 1: shut this down. But what we didn't understand is like
Speaker 1: there's a whole big picture here, Like we really did
Speaker 1: come in the middle, and like when they're fighting about
Speaker 1: you know, the holiday schedule, there there's you know, something
Speaker 1: going on. It's not actually just about the holiday schedule.
Speaker 1: It's about you know, they're ten years of marriage. And
Speaker 1: it took me so long to realize that and to
Speaker 1: be like, oh, Okay, well, maybe I shouldn't try to
Speaker 1: write the email for him, you know, like maybe I
Speaker 1: shouldn't try to coach him on exactly how he needs
Speaker 1: to shut this own and just give him a little
Speaker 1: bit of empathy, because man, this guy is being pulled
Speaker 1: and like have her many different directions and just trying
Speaker 1: to keep us all happy. Yeah. I mean, when you're
Speaker 1: in your own internal insanity, it's really challenging to be
Speaker 1: able to step back and take that observer point of
Speaker 1: view and recognize that he's in it too, and she's
Speaker 1: in it too, or the ex partners in it he
Speaker 1: or she, and then the kids are in it too,
Speaker 1: and especially as they get older than they really start
Speaker 1: to have these, you know, opinions and feelings about you
Speaker 1: in the situation that maybe they didn't have when they
Speaker 1: were younger. And so it's it is hard. And as
Speaker 1: as the little longer I've been in it, the easier
Speaker 1: it has been for me to be able to take
Speaker 1: that position where I can observe and give everybody room,
Speaker 1: because it's when you're at the I'm just at the
Speaker 1: beginning of a step mom experience, it's like you're just
Speaker 1: in your own You're in your own ship, you really are.
Speaker 1: What did you find hardest at the very beginning, Like
Speaker 1: what was the biggest, like the most pressure. Oh, um,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. Mine was very complex because it
Speaker 1: was so public and I think, Um, I think because
Speaker 1: of the way Eddie and I got together, there was
Speaker 1: a lot of turmoil, and I think trying to build
Speaker 1: something solid amidst the turmoil, Um, that would just not stop.
Speaker 1: It was incessant. And you know, when you're on the
Speaker 1: cover of a magazine every week where you know your
Speaker 1: relationship for years on end, and to try to keep
Speaker 1: the kids somehow protected from that, that was the most challenging.
Speaker 1: And trying to also figure out like how how involved
Speaker 1: I think that was one of the biggest things. How involved,
Speaker 1: and you know, you want to create a family and
Speaker 1: a family unit, but then you're not quite sure how
Speaker 1: to do that and keep every atty happy. I think
Speaker 1: that was also a piece for me, is like I
Speaker 1: just wanted to try to keep everybody happy and everybody
Speaker 1: from getting hurt even more. And the more I did that,
Speaker 1: the more I seemed to probably hurt those involved. It
Speaker 1: was really complex, very very complex, and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: having it be so public really did add another layer
Speaker 1: of just absolute insanity and going back to that kind
Speaker 1: of evil stepmother association that we have. Like, I mean,
Speaker 1: how do you and you know, looking at my own
Speaker 1: experience of how I was drugged, through the press, through everything,
Speaker 1: and how do you think we start to change this?
Speaker 1: I know, I feel like talking about it like we're
Speaker 1: doing is a step forward and being honest about the
Speaker 1: whole experience. But what else do you think we can
Speaker 1: do as step moms and as a society to start
Speaker 1: moving that needle into a more cohesive, loving experience for
Speaker 1: some moms? Yeah, well loaded right. I think I think
Speaker 1: it really does boil down to the way that women
Speaker 1: are pit against each other to begin with you know,
Speaker 1: because you know, way step moms are viewed versus the
Speaker 1: way that step dads are viewed, it's entirely different. You know,
Speaker 1: a stepdad comes in and marries a woman with kids
Speaker 1: and he's this hero, and you know, a woman marries
Speaker 1: a man with kids and it's like, well, what a
Speaker 1: what a home wrecker. She's you know, not respecting the
Speaker 1: role of the mom, or she's trying to overstep and
Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff. So, you know, I think
Speaker 1: it really it really comes down to losing the competition
Speaker 1: piece too, and understanding that you know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of talk is as a stepmom a real mom, right
Speaker 1: like our step mom's moms too. And I think it
Speaker 1: really does come back to no, step moms are step moms.
Speaker 1: Step moms are step moms. They can be. The way
Speaker 1: that that shows up for different families is completely different.
Speaker 1: But there's nothing wrong with being a step mom, right.
Speaker 1: So when the step mom comes in with this idea
Speaker 1: that she's supposed to be this mom and this family,
Speaker 1: and this idea from society that you need to love
Speaker 1: your step kids like your own immediately, but don't treat
Speaker 1: them like they're your own, because that would be overstepping
Speaker 1: right like, but then the step kids are also told
Speaker 1: they don't have to listen to you because you're not
Speaker 1: their mom, but you're supposed to act like their mom.
Speaker 1: Like it's it's actually really messed up. It's because we're
Speaker 1: trying to make step moms into moms. And that's I
Speaker 1: think where that competition comes in. And if we just
Speaker 1: separate them, right, their motherly figures were all motherly figures.
Speaker 1: Everyone's on the same team. But let's let's lose the
Speaker 1: competition piece. And it starts with even conversations at the arena, right,
Speaker 1: like just the way when you introduce yourself as a stepmom.
Speaker 1: So I go to the arena, I introduced myself like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know that's my stepson. Oh how is that? Why
Speaker 1: don't you ask how old he is? Right? Or you
Speaker 1: know what teams he on? And it's interesting how strangers
Speaker 1: can just ask us, oh, well do you get along
Speaker 1: with the X. It's like they're baiting you. You're being
Speaker 1: bated all the time. That's the thing. Yes, people want
Speaker 1: the fight, and that's what I had to start. That's
Speaker 1: what I was saying when I would get hooked in
Speaker 1: to the fight. It was like we have been trained
Speaker 1: as a society to want that fight and to be
Speaker 1: entertained by it. And it's amazing that, you know, we
Speaker 1: live in a society that we'll just ask you so blatantly, well,
Speaker 1: how's that because they just want to know, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they want to know, like they want the fight to
Speaker 1: be there, which is for sure. It's scary to me,
Speaker 1: it's and I do think you're right. I think it
Speaker 1: does boil down to the underlying issue is, you know,
Speaker 1: pitting women against each other. I know one of my
Speaker 1: biggest hard looks for me that I had to look
Speaker 1: at was how much I wanted to win. And yeah,
Speaker 1: the better the house, the Yeah, it's like always be
Speaker 1: the prettier that you know, like all the things. The
Speaker 1: way that society does that to women, that's that's ingrained
Speaker 1: in us totally, it is. And to have to unhook
Speaker 1: from that was a huge thing. It's like, it's not
Speaker 1: about winning, it's about raising competent, beautiful, loving children and
Speaker 1: really trying to form whatever your team is going to
Speaker 1: look like. And that could be all rah rah, everybody's
Speaker 1: loving each other all the time, or it could look
Speaker 1: like just getting along enough to help each other out
Speaker 1: like whatever, and some people don't ever get to that place,
Speaker 1: and I think we have to give ourselves some grace,
Speaker 1: like it's it's okay if you don't create the perfect
Speaker 1: family unit. I know a lot of people look at
Speaker 1: my situation. They're like, how the hell did you get
Speaker 1: to the place where you could all spend a holiday together?
Speaker 1: And it's taken a lot of work on both sides.
Speaker 1: And I think people have this idea that eventually everybody
Speaker 1: will get there, and sometimes you won't and that's okay,
Speaker 1: it's okay. Yeah. And that's the other piece too. There's
Speaker 1: this huge pressure now to have this hurts and sparkles
Speaker 1: co parenting relationship. And I've been talking more about this lately.
Speaker 1: But whenever one of those viral Facebook book posts with
Speaker 1: matching jerseys or something comes out, you know, I always
Speaker 1: get messages saying, you know, this is how it should be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's been something that's been really hard for me.
Speaker 1: I There's been time where I've had wine with my
Speaker 1: you know, husband's first wife. There's been we've hung out
Speaker 1: together at hockey tournaments, and then there's been times where
Speaker 1: we don't even speak, like you know, now I'm fairly,
Speaker 1: I'm fairly disengaged at this point in time. Just it's
Speaker 1: based on the ebbs and flows of where everyone's at
Speaker 1: in their own journey, and that's what's best for me, right,
Speaker 1: that's what's best for us that I'm sure that's what's
Speaker 1: best for her. Like all of this pressure of how
Speaker 1: we're supposed to interact with each other and what this
Speaker 1: should look like, it makes you feel guilty too, right,
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people who need to
Speaker 1: get to a certain place in their healing journey to
Speaker 1: have that type of relationship. So it's like another thing
Speaker 1: that stepman's feel guilty about. So if you can't have
Speaker 1: that relationship, or if the ex wife wants nothing to
Speaker 1: do with you and doesn't even want to say hi
Speaker 1: to you at pickup where doesn't want you to have
Speaker 1: anything to do with you know, parent teacher night, even
Speaker 1: though you are doing homework with the kids seven days
Speaker 1: in a row, right, Like, that's not about you. But
Speaker 1: we have to lose the guilt there, because that has
Speaker 1: been really hard for me. I really thought we would
Speaker 1: have us you know, there was times I was like
Speaker 1: we could all do holidays together, we could do this,
Speaker 1: and we could do that, And I'm really glad I
Speaker 1: didn't start that tradition because it would not have gone well.
Speaker 1: But I had to get over that. I had to
Speaker 1: even like grieve the loss of what I thought it
Speaker 1: should look like or what it was going to look like,
Speaker 1: or that we would all get to that point And
Speaker 1: maybe we will eventually, but we're not there right now.
Speaker 1: But that's what's healthiest for us too, So there's that
Speaker 1: piece to consider. Yeah, I love that you're saying ebbs
Speaker 1: and flows, and I think that that is probably the
Speaker 1: case for us to For for the most part, we've
Speaker 1: been able to once we've committed to holidays and such like,
Speaker 1: we've been fairly committed and it's been nice like and
Speaker 1: it makes the kids really happy. And I try to
Speaker 1: be in my own space and enjoy like everybody for
Speaker 1: who they are. And I think that expectations piece is
Speaker 1: so huge, Like when you can lay off of the
Speaker 1: expectations of what you think something should be or who
Speaker 1: they should be, then you get to actually experience it
Speaker 1: for what it is. And there can be a lot
Speaker 1: of gifts that you're not able to see three your expectations,
Speaker 1: Like there's so many gifts that could be there and
Speaker 1: so many lessons. We go back to those lessons that
Speaker 1: we're learning that we we could be missing if we
Speaker 1: have just expectations of the situation. And you're right, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of grief, a lot of grief I think
Speaker 1: over for everybody. Oh yeah, yeah. Empathy is something that
Speaker 1: you talk a lot about in your ebook, and empathy
Speaker 1: has been such a huge part of this journey. I
Speaker 1: think it's so such a part of the large part
Speaker 1: of the human journey if we allow it to be.
Speaker 1: But I think when it comes to grieving, it's so
Speaker 1: interesting on this podcast this whole season, the grief has
Speaker 1: come up in each episode. When it comes to grieving,
Speaker 1: we have to remember that each of us is grieving
Speaker 1: something in our own way within the situation, and having
Speaker 1: that empathy for others grief is really important. And then
Speaker 1: everyone does that on their own, in their own time way,
Speaker 1: in their own timeline, right like you really, I think,
Speaker 1: going back to what you're saying, like you got to
Speaker 1: learn to read the room like as a stem mom,
Speaker 1: you read the room like, read like your relationship with
Speaker 1: your step kids, see where they're at. You know, the
Speaker 1: way you're showing up to support your partner dealing with
Speaker 1: the acts, like just read the room and then you know,
Speaker 1: figure it out from there. And that's not saying your
Speaker 1: feelings don't matter, right, and and your your experience doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: but you own that experience too, right, And so you
Speaker 1: get you get to control with situations to keep putting
Speaker 1: yourself in for oh, absolutely, and that's the thing you
Speaker 1: have choice. It's interesting that you're saying reading the room
Speaker 1: because I feel like that's been a huge piece of
Speaker 1: my anxiety, is having to read the room. It's and
Speaker 1: I don't like equated to just this my relationship in
Speaker 1: this family unit. It started back with my own parents,
Speaker 1: but I am now in this situation that's similar. I've
Speaker 1: had to learn how to read the room without it
Speaker 1: being anxiety provoking and taking on other people's emotions within
Speaker 1: the room. That's been really interesting because I think it
Speaker 1: is a gift for a step mom to be able
Speaker 1: to read the room and to be empathetic. It can
Speaker 1: turn on a dime really quickly into this very anxiety
Speaker 1: provoking experience, and I think that sometimes comes with is
Speaker 1: there a control piece involved? Then? Are you trying to
Speaker 1: control everybody in the room or are you just reading
Speaker 1: the room. Yeah, totally, that that hit home too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's it's like you're saying the ebb and flow
Speaker 1: of the situation, Like I really have to keep myself
Speaker 1: in check so that I allow for the ebbs and
Speaker 1: the flows, and I don't get so fixated on on
Speaker 1: one thing, because then it goes back to someone's grief journey. Right,
Speaker 1: Like we dealt with secondary infertility. I wanted more than
Speaker 1: one baby. Um we went to have another baby after
Speaker 1: rece I. We couldn't. It just wasn't wasn't in the
Speaker 1: cards for us. And that's something I've had to grieve
Speaker 1: because if I didn't marry someone who was older than me,
Speaker 1: if I didn't if maybe we didn't have this my
Speaker 1: step kids because it was so busy, I didn't feel
Speaker 1: like we had enough time for another baby. Like all
Speaker 1: these things, I feel like I fully process that, right,
Speaker 1: I feel like that's something I've I've grieved, I've moved
Speaker 1: moved on from. But years later, I can have something
Speaker 1: happen and see something and it triggers my grief, which
Speaker 1: then impact how I experienced the acts and how I
Speaker 1: experienced my step kids busy schedule and like the resentment
Speaker 1: creeps in. So I think people need to remember too,
Speaker 1: this is not something you just you know, check off, right,
Speaker 1: like your step on struggles and the reason meant and
Speaker 1: grief and the whole the whole learning process, all the things,
Speaker 1: like you're constantly dealing with it, like this is like
Speaker 1: a lifelong work and there's always going to be something.
Speaker 1: It is lifelong work. All right, We are going to
Speaker 1: step away for a quick breath, but we'll be right back.
Speaker 1: Hello again, loves. Jamie and I were just talking about
Speaker 1: the pressure to project harmony with the way that we
Speaker 1: interact as a blended family, and you mentioned grief, but
Speaker 1: I know one of the things that's been coming up
Speaker 1: for me lately is actually grieving not having children of
Speaker 1: my own. And it's been a real clear decision for me.
Speaker 1: For a long time. I didn't really think. I love
Speaker 1: how everything's portrayed in the media, but I've never we've
Speaker 1: never tried to have kids or um and I've never
Speaker 1: really thought of myself with children. In fact, I told
Speaker 1: my I told my godmother when I was six that
Speaker 1: I was going to have two boys that were in
Speaker 1: my own and so I had wildly um yeah, and
Speaker 1: she remembers it so vividly, and I thought I was
Speaker 1: going to adopt children if I ever had children. I
Speaker 1: just never had that desire. And I've had the wonderful
Speaker 1: experience of having two boys in my life and which
Speaker 1: has been really cool to to watch them grow up.
Speaker 1: That's one of the things that I've been grieving as
Speaker 1: as a stepmom and as a woman now heading into
Speaker 1: forty and it's not over, like, it's not who knows
Speaker 1: what will happen in the future of my life, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's been really interesting to navigate being a stepmom but
Speaker 1: not ever having kids of my own. And that's that's
Speaker 1: a it's a true grieving process for any woman. I
Speaker 1: think it at around this age. So it's been really interesting.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's a different experience for step
Speaker 1: moms to write like the childless stepmom like quote unquote,
Speaker 1: like and you know, if you have your own child
Speaker 1: or you're bringing children in from another marriage, like there Again,
Speaker 1: that was just the different experiences, because I know that
Speaker 1: a lot of childless step moms or those who are
Speaker 1: dealing with in fertility haven't been able to have their
Speaker 1: own or by choice, they sometimes feel like their experience
Speaker 1: in motherhood is minimized because they don't. People will say, well,
Speaker 1: you don't understand until you have your own kids, and
Speaker 1: there's so many there's elements of that that's true, but
Speaker 1: there's elements of that that's false. Like there's just like
Speaker 1: so many you don't know what you don't know, right,
Speaker 1: and we all kind of walk through and have our
Speaker 1: own experience. I don't know what it feels like to
Speaker 1: be a childless stepma and to just have my have
Speaker 1: my step kids. I think my experience being a stepma
Speaker 1: would be completely different than it is now and vice versa.
Speaker 1: So I think there's there's that piece to consider too.
Speaker 1: It goes back to how there's there's so many different
Speaker 1: dynamics that everyone has their own hurt. That was totally
Speaker 1: and that was one of the pieces in your book
Speaker 1: that I was like, wait, I'm not my my motherhood
Speaker 1: is not minimized because I'm not I don't have children,
Speaker 1: But that is a view in which our lens in
Speaker 1: which I am looked at through society as as a
Speaker 1: child is step mom. And that was one of the
Speaker 1: things where I was like, oh, there's there's anger around
Speaker 1: that for me, and there's a grieving process that I'm
Speaker 1: going through, and it just really touched upon something that
Speaker 1: I know. I'm not the only one that experiences that.
Speaker 1: And I find it so interesting that you have your
Speaker 1: own child with your husband and like you're saying, I don't,
Speaker 1: I don't know that experience. And so I think a
Speaker 1: sense of respect for everyone's own unique experience is so key.
Speaker 1: And you know, when it comes to moving the needle forward,
Speaker 1: I guess in our society, I think the more we
Speaker 1: can talk about those unique experiences in which each of
Speaker 1: our lens is our our own. Um, it not not
Speaker 1: only plays into the step mom role, but into humanity
Speaker 1: as you know, as a whole. Yeah, their truth is
Speaker 1: not our truth, right and yes, and vice versa. We
Speaker 1: both like fully believe it. Yeah, totally. I like my
Speaker 1: truth is the truth though, right absolutely? Mind you it
Speaker 1: finds how it really happened. Yes, exactly. If you could
Speaker 1: go back in time and tell you're younger stepmom self
Speaker 1: one thing, what would it be, Um, I would say
Speaker 1: to get into couples therapy right away? I would I
Speaker 1: would get into couples therapy, and I wouldn't have gone
Speaker 1: as all in as I did. So I was commuting
Speaker 1: like an hour and a half each way. I was
Speaker 1: working in child protection still, and this house was perfectly clean. Um,
Speaker 1: the kids were perfectly dressed, you know, everything. Dinner was
Speaker 1: in a crock pot when I left at five thirty
Speaker 1: in the morning, because I was going to be like
Speaker 1: I just took over and did all the things. And
Speaker 1: I did that because I was trying to be perfect
Speaker 1: and trying to prove myself and you know, trying to
Speaker 1: show up. And I thought that was the way I
Speaker 1: would I would show everyone how much I loved them.
Speaker 1: And I got to the point there was my husband.
Speaker 1: I had this fight in the kitchen and I said
Speaker 1: to myself, I don't do any of the things I
Speaker 1: used to do anymore. I used to go to yoga,
Speaker 1: I used to go to the you know, book stores,
Speaker 1: coffee shops with my girl friends, used to all these things.
Speaker 1: And I don't do anything. I'm just here doing everything
Speaker 1: for you people. And he looked to me and said,
Speaker 1: no one asked you to stop that, Jamie, Like you
Speaker 1: did that on your own. And he was really right, like,
Speaker 1: you never asked me to do it. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, that's where a lot of stepmans get caught up.
Speaker 1: We go all in and we want to do all
Speaker 1: the things, and we do it with great intentions. But
Speaker 1: then that's when you get to that resentment piece, right,
Speaker 1: because you might not be getting that same emotional attachment
Speaker 1: as their mom does. You might not get the glory
Speaker 1: moments and those are the things. It's like, you're good
Speaker 1: enough for the nitty gritty, but then when those glory
Speaker 1: moments come, you need to step back and know your place.
Speaker 1: And that's where the resentment piece comes in. Right. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I would have not done that, but I don't. Again,
Speaker 1: it's like you're saying, how I said, I maybe wouldn't
Speaker 1: have fallen in love with my husband, but I had,
Speaker 1: I probably would do both. Again, it's your journey, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, we all have our unique journeys and this
Speaker 1: is just part of it. So thank you for coming
Speaker 1: on here and sharing so vulnerably. I really, really really
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Well, thank you for having me. Yeah, before
Speaker 1: you leave, I have to ask. I ask all my
Speaker 1: guests what are your holy five songs? Of course, I'd
Speaker 1: love to know what's playing in your house, in your car.
Speaker 1: It could be anything from the like what you're listening
Speaker 1: to right now? Five songs or it could be over
Speaker 1: your life, like what's moved you? So give it to me?
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure? Well, yeah, I've I've prepared these because
Speaker 1: I knew this was coming, so I kind of went
Speaker 1: with songs that kind of like hit home for me. Okay,
Speaker 1: So do you know what I really love is Caitlin
Speaker 1: Bristow released a song and if I'm being honest, and
Speaker 1: so she talked, have you heard it? I don't know
Speaker 1: that one. No, I can have a moment best me.
Speaker 1: It's it's really good. So she's like, if I'm being honest,
Speaker 1: like I'm not as tough as I seem, like maybe
Speaker 1: I drink a little too much wine, but like the
Speaker 1: words I say to myself and are the hardest ones,
Speaker 1: like talking about people being critical of you. And I
Speaker 1: really like that one because it's like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes we're hard enough on ourselves. We don't need to
Speaker 1: worry about whatever everyone else is saying. I really love
Speaker 1: the song and it kind of goes with what we're
Speaker 1: talking about when you love someone. I thinks like James
Speaker 1: t W but he's talking about like, you know, two
Speaker 1: sometimes two homes are better than one. Sometimes moms and
Speaker 1: dads they followut the fall out of love and just
Speaker 1: like explaining it to a child. Yeah yeah, so I
Speaker 1: really love that's a better though what that song sometimes
Speaker 1: that I love sometimes too better. Some things you can't say, sister,
Speaker 1: because she's still too young. I don't understand when you
Speaker 1: love someone. Yeah, so good. I love that song. Yeah
Speaker 1: so good. The other one was and it's just like
Speaker 1: a huge fan faith in my family Paradise by the
Speaker 1: dashboard light meat Loaf, like it's like our family things,
Speaker 1: both sides of my family, like a meat Loaf concert,
Speaker 1: like the last time he went on tour, like all
Speaker 1: my family members and like friends were like in different spots,
Speaker 1: just like having a hoot. So my family always Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love it. Um what else did I got here?
Speaker 1: Ronan Keaton? When you see nothing at all? I think
Speaker 1: that was the last one I have. I think I'm
Speaker 1: sure I went the shone that you need the truth
Speaker 1: and you right shut that's okay. So I love that.
Speaker 1: It's just like the best I love Nan and I
Speaker 1: did to do it together actually years ago, and he's like,
Speaker 1: especially I'll look at it right now. He's the sweetest guy.
Speaker 1: I love him so fun so so good. Well, thanks
Speaker 1: for sharing it, thank you for sharing your music, thank
Speaker 1: you for sharing your heart. And it's so nice to
Speaker 1: finally put a face like to see you in person. Ish,
Speaker 1: I know. I don't know if you've noticed on Instagram
Speaker 1: there's people saying you guys need to do a podcast
Speaker 1: together in the comments. So when you'll when you like
Speaker 1: something or like comment on my post, I always get
Speaker 1: damns like do you know that leanne rhymes? Okay? So
Speaker 1: if I will, I will. I would love to come
Speaker 1: and join you on yours too anytime, so let's be
Speaker 1: sure we will get it set up awesome. Well, thank you,
Speaker 1: have a beautiful day you too, And that, my friends,
Speaker 1: wraps this very honest and open episode of Holy Human.
Speaker 1: I hope you have enjoyed my conversation with Jamie Scrimtrat
Speaker 1: as much as I did. Again, her podcast is called
Speaker 1: The kick Ass step Mom and it is filled with
Speaker 1: tons of realistic and pragmatic tips and advice if your
Speaker 1: stepmom or navigating a blended family, And as always, please
Speaker 1: let me know your thoughts on today's episode or ideas
Speaker 1: for future ones, and be nice leave them in the
Speaker 1: comments below wherever you're listening. I love reading your feedback,
Speaker 1: so come join us anytime, let us know what you think.
Speaker 1: And on the next Holy Human, I will be joined
Speaker 1: by a profoundly insightful poetic author, Steph Jagger, to discuss
Speaker 1: her latest book, Everything Left to Remember, a touching tribute
Speaker 1: to navigating a relationship with a parent battling Alzheimer's. Steph
Speaker 1: will share her heartbreakingly beautiful takeaway on this incredibly cruel disease,
Speaker 1: along with an in depth discussion about our relationship with
Speaker 1: nature and our connection with a feminine and I just
Speaker 1: know I did. You will find her deeply inspiring, So
Speaker 1: until then, please take care of yourself and each other.
Speaker 1: Holy Human with me Leanne Rhymes is a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. You'll find Holy Human with Lianne Rhymes
Speaker 1: on the I Heart app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get the podcast that matter most to you.